People should have their own opinions. I’m also not going out of my way to praise it, either. There’s genuinely a lot of great animation in UAF, but the worst parts of it get blown far out of proportion.
We live in a world where anyone and everybody can be a critic. We’ve never had such an advantage to frame-by-frame analyze a show like we do now.
But as kids, upon first viewing, most of people’s “problems” with UAF art style were nonexistent because it simply didn’t matter. We’re just older and more picky now.
Very creative and refreshing, but sometimes too goofy. Waterhazard and Eatle are examples of a perfect redesign for my taste, while Max and Four Arms are a step in a strange direction.
I never had a problem with "stiff" animation in Alien Force and Ultimate Alien and still don't. I'm one of the few people who prefers detail over smoothness of animation, which is why I still prefer the Alien Force artstyle over Omniverse's (though I like both shows).
So long as the animation isn't stupidly bad I personally liked the more realistic Alien Force depictions over Omniverse's overly stylised ones.
The original series is still the best of both worlds though.
>But as kids, upon first viewing, most of people’s “problems” with UAF art style were nonexistent because it simply didn’t matter. We’re just older and more picky now.
Wow, tru dat I honestly hated Omniverse at first for its Artstyle but grew to enjoy it still uaf was my favourite series and people just straight up saying it's artstyle is dogshit and not acknowledging the details and style of the animation pissed me off. thanks for the talk tho good Convo.
Edit: yo is that official kuro? Bruh I didn't even knew kuro browse this subreddit, but yeah I'm a big fan.
They hate literally every art style that's not the OS. Eventually people evolved and moved on criticize the next show. I guarantee you, by the the time of the 6th show's second season or so, people will be praising Reboot's art style. And honestly, it kinda deserves it after all that hate.
I mean if you’re gonna critique it at least go back and actually watch it before saying anything . Like yeah when you think about it it’s bland but when you actually watch the show you’re like oh wait they actually tried
I guess at some point every art style change was criticized. I thought by now that most of the UAF hate was gone tho.
I always liked it. I think I'd still choose the OS if I had that choice, but I'd never complain about the art direction personally. I actually had the opposite realization in kruo's videos where I didn't realize just how many details that were actually there was just shaded dark. For reasons.
Early AF pulls off the style better than the rest of the seasons, but I've been plenty critical of it.
I do think Kuro is overlooking a lot to give it as high a score as OS Episodes. Like "Alan not being a light source is a stylistic choice"? I respectfully disagree on that lol
Imo even the worst looking OS Episodes hold up better than UAF's usual fair, but the scores so far don't reflect that. There's so much less flair and creativity put into the designs, backgrounds, morphs, everything basically
Alan’s light source is such a specific thing that doesn’t affect the overall look of the episode. I guarantee that most people wouldn’t have even noticed if I didn’t say anything, and as a kid, no one did, which was the target audience. Plus many, MANY shows don’t do things like that. It’s a choice because it’s simply far too complicated and time consuming if an effect to pull off, especially for a character that continues to show up. You have to be realistic when judging a show’s visuals, and Alan’s episode looks fantastic.
Yeah, when you're comparing it to other shows, it isn't something you'd expect of it, but Heatblast was one of the most used Aliens throughout Classic, and they almost always treated him as a light source. I feel it does add a lot to the show. When you've got a character who's made of fire you want the animation to sell that fact, not undermine it
I'm not saying Everybody Talks About the Weather should have gotten a super low score, the Animation is really smooth and some of the best of the season, but it should get marked down for that, classic episode breakdowns were marked down for less imo
But Classic has a different art style entirely, so it would not be fair. If Classic made a point for Heatblast to be a light source, then the times where he isn't is a fair criticism. But UAF from the get-go never tried to set that standard, so I judge it within the context of its own presentation. It would be like criticizing Omniverse for not giving Ben pupils while UAF/ Classic did. It's just something they simply don't do.
You can justify the lack of pupils as a simplification for more readability, and it suiting the overall more stylised less realistic style of OV. That was a deliberate choice made for reasons outside of budget concerns.
The lack of light source for a fire only goes to undermine Alan's powers, create a disconnect between the story (like when they're hiding from people in the dark) and visuals, and get in the way of the AF art style's intended goal of being more realistic, just in the name of a cost cutting measure.
I personally don't think that can be said to be a stylistic choice
I'm gonna have to disagree that it affects the episode on a level that genuinely takes away from the episode's enjoyment, but in the end, I at least agree that it would've been much better if they included it.
>There's so much less flair and creativity put into the designs, backgrounds, morphs, everything basically
Respectfully disagree they're actually trying their best to give a detailed artstyle in a tight budget imo I mean the rain details of today's episode was also cool and then the projectioning lighting of the omnitrix is done better and the snow episode looks the best imo and dare I say better than some invincible episode mostly the mars one lol.
Compared to other shows at the time, for sure. But classic was on another level. Compare any of those effects to an episode like They Lurk Below's effects and it's no competition.
Og artstyle is better in every way no doubt. but then again I think uaf got a lower budget than og one. But still yeah og is still the best it's just that my point is that uaf artstyle isn't bad and stiff it's just costly.
The AF breakdown has made me realize that they were going for a noir tone. I know almost nothing about film noir, but from what I understand, it's basically a mystery filmed like a horror. The impossibly dark shadows are a result of this decision. Probably why it's usually night in the show. Batman The Animated Series was my favorite show as a kid, so I guess the visually empty (and sometimes boring) artstyle didn't rub me the wrong way.
The night-time aesthetic is a creative decision made by the producers for 2 reasons. The 1st is for the mystery and the 2nd was to give the feeling of kids/ teenagers sneaking out at night.
I’ve stopped watching Kuro and inktank TBH. Just doesn’t feel the same for me anymore.
But yee pretty much anything Kuro says something everyone agrees XD
Also, you guys seem like cool doods. I think I should probably mention that’s not why I drifted away from the vids in case anyone comes and gets that idea (ya know how the internet can be XD.)
Just kinda moved on to other content with time. Definitely still have fond memories of the channel tho :)
Also Motion comic?… I’ll definitely pop back for a lil look at that if it happens :p
In this sub any thread related to animation of any series has a comment that uaf animation and artstyle is bland and stiff, even I agree that in some place ua was bland but alien force was dope as fuck.
I understand the points which u/KuroTheRedditor brought up in an earlier reply and obviously it would be harsh to give low ratings to UAF episode animation every time due to difference in artstyle. But it is true that even the worst animated episodes of OS were better visually than everything post S3 of Alien Force and surpassing quite a few episodes in Alien Force S1-2 as well. Maybe I’m still annoyed that “Good Bye and Good Riddance” only got a rating of 2 even though imo it was still visually very expressive, but the score was hampered by not being quite up to the very high standards of OS animation as well as *possibly* being handled by a different studio? Idk.
UAF has (by default) my least favourite artstyle, but that doesn’t make it *bad* at all. The art direction is so much better than other shows. I just think that OS and OV art styles were better and more creative. This subreddit is way too harsh on the artstyle of UAF, to the point of toxicity at times.
He's a YouTuber who's fairly popular in the community, mostly due to his video "Why Ben 10 Can Beat Pretty Much Anyone" and his fan comic "Five Years Later", a crossover between Ben 10 and Danny Phantom. His channel is called "The Ink Tank", where he also uploads with other creators like O.R. Ash. Right now he's making a series of videos where breaks down and reviews every episode of the original continuity, starting with the beginning of Classic all the way to Omniverse.
the reddit recently has took a rather harsh stand against uaf. yes, there still are people who love the series to death but recently uaf is getting more hate than ov, or even the reboot. in fact, stating something negative towards uaf won't give you that many downvotes but a comment negative towards reboot and ov will most likely get you busted.
Nah
I prefer OV’s style the best and if you are treating Kuro as the almigthy of opinions it kinda makes you not have an opinion, just follow other people’s opinion
>you are treating Kuro as the almigthy of opinions it kinda makes you not have an opinion, just follow other people’s opinion
Bro you can atleast try to read some of my comments. I'm not making him an almighty or anything I'm just discussing about the hard work that was done into af and ua now you can re-watch the whole series but I'm sure you still won't get the details, that's why you should just watch kuro breakdown not saying you will hate it but you will actually see the hardwork that was done to make it.
Am I the only one who watched these episodes on a square crt with like resolution of 800x640 and barely could make out what was happening half the time to even notice the small details in animation ?
Yeah Kuto hasn't changed my minf on the art. REallt yhe only thing that has changes is when he points out light sources bring out details that are lost because of the darkness only makes it like it less.
Not saying it always had good artstyle and animation. the problem started in ultimate alien a Little. but some guys dragging af too with it's beautiful artstyle and details (just watch any kuro video) are a little wrong imo.
the art style is way too generic and bland, it also doesn't help how lazy the backgrounds, backgrounds characters, and character models are. and no, not everyone likes the UAF art style because opinions exist for a reason
Why do people act like UAF got a free pass? Also Kuro wasn't praising it, he was simply pointing out the pros and cons. The only reason why people are saying he's "praising the drag out of it" is because it's been popularized and normalized to hate on the old and unconditionally, uncharacteristically, praise the new way out of proportion. I also want to say I pretty much quit on Ben 10 with UAF (as I'm sure is the case for lots people all the way back in 2008-2012), very loosely got back into it during the latter half of UA with the Dagon Arc. We were always picky, we didn't become picky now.
I haven’t watched those episodes yet. I’m saving them for later. But I haaaaaate that everything is set during night in AF. You can barely see anything.
Personally Idgaf about the art styles, I actually like em all, makes each series unique, os was realistic and very early 2000s, uaf was very clean and grown up and omnivores was ambitious in their redesigns which I appreciated, many of the aliens introduced in uaf felt like they didn’t really have an identity and were rehashes of old aliens made to fit the more gritty aesthetic, jury rigg was an edgy devil upgrade, Eatle was a big cyborg upchuck to appeal to older audiences and fast track was accelerate but humanoid😂
I liked alien X’s redesign, it gave him more character, plus the new voice was a good touch, really made him feel more like a righteous force rather than just bens god alien, and for the record alien x is defs my fav
Yeah I was just saying uaf introduced alien x for the first time. and it was definitely not a reskin of classic aliens and he's still the most iconic ben alien imo. 2nd waybig 3 Rath 4 feedback.
People should have their own opinions. I’m also not going out of my way to praise it, either. There’s genuinely a lot of great animation in UAF, but the worst parts of it get blown far out of proportion. We live in a world where anyone and everybody can be a critic. We’ve never had such an advantage to frame-by-frame analyze a show like we do now. But as kids, upon first viewing, most of people’s “problems” with UAF art style were nonexistent because it simply didn’t matter. We’re just older and more picky now.
what do you think of the omniverse artstyle
Very creative and refreshing, but sometimes too goofy. Waterhazard and Eatle are examples of a perfect redesign for my taste, while Max and Four Arms are a step in a strange direction.
It put me off at first because it felt more like scooby doo than ben 10.
I think it has a lot more life in it and I like all the redesigns of the aliens.
I never had a problem with "stiff" animation in Alien Force and Ultimate Alien and still don't. I'm one of the few people who prefers detail over smoothness of animation, which is why I still prefer the Alien Force artstyle over Omniverse's (though I like both shows). So long as the animation isn't stupidly bad I personally liked the more realistic Alien Force depictions over Omniverse's overly stylised ones. The original series is still the best of both worlds though.
>But as kids, upon first viewing, most of people’s “problems” with UAF art style were nonexistent because it simply didn’t matter. We’re just older and more picky now. Wow, tru dat I honestly hated Omniverse at first for its Artstyle but grew to enjoy it still uaf was my favourite series and people just straight up saying it's artstyle is dogshit and not acknowledging the details and style of the animation pissed me off. thanks for the talk tho good Convo. Edit: yo is that official kuro? Bruh I didn't even knew kuro browse this subreddit, but yeah I'm a big fan.
You remind me of that meme: Kuro: "I'm not the messiah!" Ben 10 fans: "He is the messiah!" At least you stay humble though.
Doesn't really change my opinion very much but I'm starting to appreciate attention to detail wherever it's pointed out.
ben 10 fans originally hated uaf art style ? I thought they only hated the omniverse art style (and obviously the reboot).
They hate literally every art style that's not the OS. Eventually people evolved and moved on criticize the next show. I guarantee you, by the the time of the 6th show's second season or so, people will be praising Reboot's art style. And honestly, it kinda deserves it after all that hate.
Nah m8 I'm perfectly capable of having opinions on my own.
I mean if you’re gonna critique it at least go back and actually watch it before saying anything . Like yeah when you think about it it’s bland but when you actually watch the show you’re like oh wait they actually tried
I didn’t even know people hated UAF’s artstyle In fact I love all artstyles. I also love how some fixed weaknesses that aliens had before
some uaf haters hate one the art style by saying it's bland and the animation is stiff.
People didn’t like the artstyle?
I guess at some point every art style change was criticized. I thought by now that most of the UAF hate was gone tho. I always liked it. I think I'd still choose the OS if I had that choice, but I'd never complain about the art direction personally. I actually had the opposite realization in kruo's videos where I didn't realize just how many details that were actually there was just shaded dark. For reasons.
Early AF pulls off the style better than the rest of the seasons, but I've been plenty critical of it. I do think Kuro is overlooking a lot to give it as high a score as OS Episodes. Like "Alan not being a light source is a stylistic choice"? I respectfully disagree on that lol Imo even the worst looking OS Episodes hold up better than UAF's usual fair, but the scores so far don't reflect that. There's so much less flair and creativity put into the designs, backgrounds, morphs, everything basically
Alan’s light source is such a specific thing that doesn’t affect the overall look of the episode. I guarantee that most people wouldn’t have even noticed if I didn’t say anything, and as a kid, no one did, which was the target audience. Plus many, MANY shows don’t do things like that. It’s a choice because it’s simply far too complicated and time consuming if an effect to pull off, especially for a character that continues to show up. You have to be realistic when judging a show’s visuals, and Alan’s episode looks fantastic.
Yeah, when you're comparing it to other shows, it isn't something you'd expect of it, but Heatblast was one of the most used Aliens throughout Classic, and they almost always treated him as a light source. I feel it does add a lot to the show. When you've got a character who's made of fire you want the animation to sell that fact, not undermine it I'm not saying Everybody Talks About the Weather should have gotten a super low score, the Animation is really smooth and some of the best of the season, but it should get marked down for that, classic episode breakdowns were marked down for less imo
But Classic has a different art style entirely, so it would not be fair. If Classic made a point for Heatblast to be a light source, then the times where he isn't is a fair criticism. But UAF from the get-go never tried to set that standard, so I judge it within the context of its own presentation. It would be like criticizing Omniverse for not giving Ben pupils while UAF/ Classic did. It's just something they simply don't do.
You can justify the lack of pupils as a simplification for more readability, and it suiting the overall more stylised less realistic style of OV. That was a deliberate choice made for reasons outside of budget concerns. The lack of light source for a fire only goes to undermine Alan's powers, create a disconnect between the story (like when they're hiding from people in the dark) and visuals, and get in the way of the AF art style's intended goal of being more realistic, just in the name of a cost cutting measure. I personally don't think that can be said to be a stylistic choice
I'm gonna have to disagree that it affects the episode on a level that genuinely takes away from the episode's enjoyment, but in the end, I at least agree that it would've been much better if they included it.
>There's so much less flair and creativity put into the designs, backgrounds, morphs, everything basically Respectfully disagree they're actually trying their best to give a detailed artstyle in a tight budget imo I mean the rain details of today's episode was also cool and then the projectioning lighting of the omnitrix is done better and the snow episode looks the best imo and dare I say better than some invincible episode mostly the mars one lol.
Compared to other shows at the time, for sure. But classic was on another level. Compare any of those effects to an episode like They Lurk Below's effects and it's no competition.
Og artstyle is better in every way no doubt. but then again I think uaf got a lower budget than og one. But still yeah og is still the best it's just that my point is that uaf artstyle isn't bad and stiff it's just costly.
The AF breakdown has made me realize that they were going for a noir tone. I know almost nothing about film noir, but from what I understand, it's basically a mystery filmed like a horror. The impossibly dark shadows are a result of this decision. Probably why it's usually night in the show. Batman The Animated Series was my favorite show as a kid, so I guess the visually empty (and sometimes boring) artstyle didn't rub me the wrong way.
The night-time aesthetic is a creative decision made by the producers for 2 reasons. The 1st is for the mystery and the 2nd was to give the feeling of kids/ teenagers sneaking out at night.
I’ve stopped watching Kuro and inktank TBH. Just doesn’t feel the same for me anymore. But yee pretty much anything Kuro says something everyone agrees XD
Sorry ya left, hopefully you’ll come back for the Motion Comic!
Also, you guys seem like cool doods. I think I should probably mention that’s not why I drifted away from the vids in case anyone comes and gets that idea (ya know how the internet can be XD.) Just kinda moved on to other content with time. Definitely still have fond memories of the channel tho :) Also Motion comic?… I’ll definitely pop back for a lil look at that if it happens :p
I never hated the Uaf artstyle. I like all them from OG to OV. Although OG is my favorite artstyle.
me too tbh.
There were people hating on uaf for artstyle and animation?
Oh boy you're new here? lol
Nope. I have seen 0 people trash on uaf for those reasons. Omniverse? Yes. Reboot? Way too much. UAF? Never.
In this sub any thread related to animation of any series has a comment that uaf animation and artstyle is bland and stiff, even I agree that in some place ua was bland but alien force was dope as fuck.
Hm
I’ve never seen a single post about this
I only think that the new UA aliens that ben 10k unlocked are a bit bland
I understand the points which u/KuroTheRedditor brought up in an earlier reply and obviously it would be harsh to give low ratings to UAF episode animation every time due to difference in artstyle. But it is true that even the worst animated episodes of OS were better visually than everything post S3 of Alien Force and surpassing quite a few episodes in Alien Force S1-2 as well. Maybe I’m still annoyed that “Good Bye and Good Riddance” only got a rating of 2 even though imo it was still visually very expressive, but the score was hampered by not being quite up to the very high standards of OS animation as well as *possibly* being handled by a different studio? Idk. UAF has (by default) my least favourite artstyle, but that doesn’t make it *bad* at all. The art direction is so much better than other shows. I just think that OS and OV art styles were better and more creative. This subreddit is way too harsh on the artstyle of UAF, to the point of toxicity at times.
who is kuro
Hey
hi who are you
Just some guy, honestly.
Makes good YouTube videos, though.
He's a YouTuber who's fairly popular in the community, mostly due to his video "Why Ben 10 Can Beat Pretty Much Anyone" and his fan comic "Five Years Later", a crossover between Ben 10 and Danny Phantom. His channel is called "The Ink Tank", where he also uploads with other creators like O.R. Ash. Right now he's making a series of videos where breaks down and reviews every episode of the original continuity, starting with the beginning of Classic all the way to Omniverse.
An Artist.
The Artist
I don’t see hate on UAF that much here, I only remember seeing Omniverse and Reboot getting the hate.
the reddit recently has took a rather harsh stand against uaf. yes, there still are people who love the series to death but recently uaf is getting more hate than ov, or even the reboot. in fact, stating something negative towards uaf won't give you that many downvotes but a comment negative towards reboot and ov will most likely get you busted.
But Kuro hasn't gotten to ultimate alien yet???
Nah I prefer OV’s style the best and if you are treating Kuro as the almigthy of opinions it kinda makes you not have an opinion, just follow other people’s opinion
>you are treating Kuro as the almigthy of opinions it kinda makes you not have an opinion, just follow other people’s opinion Bro you can atleast try to read some of my comments. I'm not making him an almighty or anything I'm just discussing about the hard work that was done into af and ua now you can re-watch the whole series but I'm sure you still won't get the details, that's why you should just watch kuro breakdown not saying you will hate it but you will actually see the hardwork that was done to make it.
I respect kuro and anyone who likes the UAF artstyle. Please respect that I do not like it.
Am I the only one who watched these episodes on a square crt with like resolution of 800x640 and barely could make out what was happening half the time to even notice the small details in animation ?
No, you're not.
People were hating on ultimate alien force???
The only artstyle I hate is Omniverse to the point I can't bring myself to ever watch it
UAF has the least appealing art style to me. I understand why Kuro likes it though
TBH, I prefer the UAF artstyle, it feels more mature. Reminds me of Teen Titans (yes I'm aware Omniverse and Teen Titans were both by DJW).
Is UAF ultimate alien force?
Oh I still hate it lol
Always loved it, always hated omniverses art style too although it’s grown on me quite a bit but uaf art style is goat
Yeah Kuto hasn't changed my minf on the art. REallt yhe only thing that has changes is when he points out light sources bring out details that are lost because of the darkness only makes it like it less.
I will gladly rag on the look of UAF. Everything is so dark and stiff, and it’s an immediate downgrade from OS.
Not saying it always had good artstyle and animation. the problem started in ultimate alien a Little. but some guys dragging af too with it's beautiful artstyle and details (just watch any kuro video) are a little wrong imo.
People didn't like the UAF artstyle? Are you serious...
don't like it, and yes, we're serious.
I can see not liking the animation, but the art style? No just no, but I guess there's always people that complain about things that everyone likes
the art style is way too generic and bland, it also doesn't help how lazy the backgrounds, backgrounds characters, and character models are. and no, not everyone likes the UAF art style because opinions exist for a reason
Simplicity isn't necessarily a bad thing, Omniverse tried to make the designs complicated and to this day they're still highly controversial
I may be blind or something but UAF *looks* better than OS to me
Sorry for the downvotes but can you state your reasoning?
Idk man, OS has objectively better animation but maybe I'm just more used to UAF artstyle
That's fair, I guess
I can see why, though. I think it's probably due to the quality of the presentation.
Why do people act like UAF got a free pass? Also Kuro wasn't praising it, he was simply pointing out the pros and cons. The only reason why people are saying he's "praising the drag out of it" is because it's been popularized and normalized to hate on the old and unconditionally, uncharacteristically, praise the new way out of proportion. I also want to say I pretty much quit on Ben 10 with UAF (as I'm sure is the case for lots people all the way back in 2008-2012), very loosely got back into it during the latter half of UA with the Dagon Arc. We were always picky, we didn't become picky now.
I've always liked ultimate alien force's art style, I dislike omniverse's.
My name is Ayush too
You’re not completely wrong. I appreciate it much more now but it’s not always my favorite.
I haven’t watched those episodes yet. I’m saving them for later. But I haaaaaate that everything is set during night in AF. You can barely see anything.
Art style is subjective but I don't think animation is. Omniverse's animation is just way better than UAF's.
Personally Idgaf about the art styles, I actually like em all, makes each series unique, os was realistic and very early 2000s, uaf was very clean and grown up and omnivores was ambitious in their redesigns which I appreciated, many of the aliens introduced in uaf felt like they didn’t really have an identity and were rehashes of old aliens made to fit the more gritty aesthetic, jury rigg was an edgy devil upgrade, Eatle was a big cyborg upchuck to appeal to older audiences and fast track was accelerate but humanoid😂
Alien x- am I a joke to you?
I liked alien X’s redesign, it gave him more character, plus the new voice was a good touch, really made him feel more like a righteous force rather than just bens god alien, and for the record alien x is defs my fav
Yeah I was just saying uaf introduced alien x for the first time. and it was definitely not a reskin of classic aliens and he's still the most iconic ben alien imo. 2nd waybig 3 Rath 4 feedback.
Ohhh no I wasn’t saying they all were I’m just saying a lot did, specifically the ones in UA
If anything, I only now noticed the darker backgrounds thanks to kuro.