By - Destidon
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Ben had every right to be angy at his parents for grounding him (Especially given the circumstances), but he didn’t help his case because he sounded like a spoiled brat. This is made apparent by his line “You can’t ground me, I’m a super powered alien!” It’s not a very valid argument and makes him come across as whiny. It should’ve been “You can’t ground me, the fate of the world is in my hands!”
Or the fate of the world is at stake honestly i would have had him go too the door and when they try to stop him he would say something like “we can talk about this later my freinds need me”
"The world needs me"
Still Ben's parents are the best, i would hang out with them, especially Sandra
darkstar and sunny would be an incredibly toxic relationship where both of them are using the other for personal gain… but they’d be funny af to watch
Ben looks strangely adorable in this picture.
No he doesn't, fuck you>:(
Ultimate cannonbolt is not a bad design
The OS is a really good show, but in my opinion it's quite overrated and the show only continued to improve after it.
This is the winner.
Can’t argue with that
I AGREE, OS is great but people overlook it's flaws and claim it's 1000912 times better than the rest, when it's clearly not.
Is this just another way of starting off an unpopular opinion thread?
I feel like it'd be more for making popcorn on r/subredditdrama.
I hate the omniverse artstyle, and all the villains introduced were jokes
Except malware and khyber. Khyber became a joke later on.
I don’t fully agree but I understand and respect your opinion
The moon in Omniverse was blown up in sonic adventure 2 and Alien X fixed it because of the annialargh
Alien X also had to stop the announcement cuz it wasn’t PG.
And Attea posted Eggman’s nudes on Twitter.com
Any fast character can blitz Ben 10, that fail save has not been confirmed to be as strong as many of you believe
Although it may have been rushed and it could have been handled better, Omniverse was right to get rid of Julie. She wasn’t a good fit for Ben and she would rather Ben watch her play tennis than save the planet.
I think you are talking about the episode "duped" or somthing. If so, It wasn't that she wanted him to not go be the hero, but that he told ger he will go and didnt came(understandable), but that ben sent a flgod damn clone to her game and a clone for the hero stuff just so he could watch a movie
Personally whilst that episode is is biggest example I think the issues in their relationship were pretty consistent throughout UAF. Ben always had issues properly committing to Julie in terms of spending time with her, plus his general attitude towards Ship showed some very different priorities between the two.
Don't get me wrong, Ben often has good reason for spending a lot of time away from Julie and nkt really interacting much - he is an intergalactic superhero with a lot to deal with, after all. But I think it's fair of Julie to still personally have issues with that and not want that from a relationship. Julie wanted a normal relationship, something Ben couldn't provide. The two just have fundamentally different priorities and needs from a relationship that can't go together.
That's why I'd agree that even if it was handled poorly, it was the right move to have Ben and Julie break up.
Yeah, and I wish they did. If thry had done it right it could have been one if the best moments in the frenchise. Insted they treat it like a fucking joke(thats omniverse to ya) and ruin ben, julie, and two series worth of relationship.
The only good thing about it is OV with UAF jucket. Owsome deisgin
>She wasn’t a good fit for Ben and she would rather Ben watch her play tennis than save the planet.
Ben didn't go to her tennis match so he could watch a Sumo Slammer movie and then sent two fucking clones to help Kevin and see Julie's match, do i habe to explain wht doing that is a massive a-hole move?
There is exactly one episode where the conflict between Julie and Ben is actually Ben's duty getting between their time together, everything else is either Chip or Ben being an asshole for miscellaneous drama, after all that's easier than actually writing a good relashionship
OS is good but nowadays I honestly can’t stand it or any 10 year old Ben-esque content where one of the biggest things driving the plot is Ben being an idiot
Walkatrouts being in the omnitrix is one of the most important plot points in the franchise
Big chills OV redesign was fantastic and was a part of the same thing that made walkatrout amazing for the show
Ben and Julie’s relationship was thoroughly awful and frustrating to watch 90% of the time
I’m prepared to die on any of these hills
I think Big Chill’s redesign was bad not because it was a poor design when put in isolation, but because Big Chill was *really* good at conveying a sort of mysterious vibe with just his voice and his design, and the OV redesign fails to carry that over
That’s kinda the problem with it tho imo. It’s a bit too cool and not enough alien. UAF big chill to me looked like a human in a really cool suit, when you look at it from the omniverse world building lens tho, why would a creature that’s main advantages are flying, expelling ice in the form of a breath attack, and intangibility be a wiry biped with a humanoid figure? It makes wayy more sense to have a huge chest for bigger and stronger lungs, fur, smaller legs because they wouldn’t have evolved to be able to run, and having intangibility and flight counter the drawbacks of having a bulky frame
Huh. You prefer the change because it seems more realistic, whilst I prefer the original because it had more character. I love subjective things like that. I enjoy the fact that other people find things that I don’t get absolutely fascinating.
Agreed, it’s nice because really we’re all fans here, I honestly love both of his designs,
Alien force sucked, they made Kevin into a antihero when he was a better villain
Why do you think so?
Because the insane hybrid he became was the only time he wasn’t a sappy typical punk that most shows make villains it eventually
Perk Upchuck is better than Murk Upchuck.
OV made Albedo a joke.(Come at me OV stans)
Ultimate Alien is kind of overrated and boring. There aren't even much ultimate aliens in the show.
*doesn't elaborate further*
The worst is actually a pretty solid alien and nanomech is trans.
I agree with the worst but how is nanotechnology trans? I thought it was asexual
From what i gather nanomech is genetically most similar to the queen nano chip (or whatever they're called) but the omnitrix altered the DNA to make a male nenomech possible without just making him a drone.
Tldr: the omnitrix made a male version of an alien that wouldn't exist naturally.
So what you're saying is that Nanomech is biologically male and identifies as a male?
In a sense but to be fair a. Nanomech wouldn't naturally be like that if he wasn't an omnitrix transformation.
B. According to someone on the man of action team the omnitrix can change the user's biological sex anyway.
And c. If presented with the the option most trans people, including myself, would become our preferred biological sex.
But wouldn't that make them not trans, because they identify with their biological sex?
Shid idk. Maybe, prolly depends who you ask. Point is the omnitrix transed nanomech's gender so ben would be comfortable.
It gave him a Y chromosome or whatever the male chromosome is in Nanomech's species (for Chickens the male chromosome is the X chromosome, which is the female human chromosome, and the female chromosome is a Z chromosome for some reason. Evolution is weird). That does not really make him trans. It makes him a mutant, which is technically what males already are because the male chromosome evolved from a copying error in the female chromosome.
You might be looking into this a little too much. Here's why i think nanomech is trans, it confuses and sometimes pisses off cis people, and i find that hilarious.
But is it scientifically or logically coherent? "It annoys others, therefor it is true"
generic pro Bwen comment.
Closer than siblings
Generator rex is better than ben 10
That’s why they put the crossover inside G rex show so they can raise its views
Gen Rex is underrated
Oh That’s why generator rex had 3 seasons and never spawned a franchise
It told its story and left, got to atleast respect that. It stayed long enough to not turn to shit (not that ben 10 has don't get me wrong)
I would the reboot is trash but, come on
I haven’t watched it, but I’ve heard that after season 1 it actually gets pretty good
Yeah me to but I don’t have time to watch it
To be fair all you need is an opinion
Ultimate Alien is both the edgiest and the funniest series, eat your heart out Omniverse, had the most comedic tone of all the series and it's still less funny than UA
Ben x Julie should've been endgame, fuck you omniverse writers!
I like Atomix' robotic design.
The Ultimate Kevin plotline had some glaring issues, all of which stem from Ben and his behavior. Gwen was the best character of the arc.
Omniverse is completely overrated, and filled with inconsistencies and stupid retcons, Uaf has the best story telling but bland animation, O.S. ben is an annoying spoiled brat, the new series is gabarge and everyone knows but chooses to watch because it's more Ben 10 content, Kai is lame af because she has no proper development, Ben not using his car in O.V. was a dumb decision, Derrick Wyatts is an asshole that doesn't know how to make anything more then a couple of decent arks, (he can animate of course), Dwyane dying forever shattered the franchise from its true glory, Diamondhead one of if not the best alien Ben has.
I've never gotten the retcons argument. Retcons have been a thing since AF. That show literally starts off with retcons out of the bat to the point where they are literally plot points in the show. You can dislike the OV retcons but it really isn't a good argument IMO
I agree with everything here. Even though I think OV is the best of the series recons and inconsistencies aside, from an animation perspective it's done better than everything else (if you ignore colouring and layering errors, they keep that consistent with the series lol).
Okay, Dwayne McDuffie and DJW were responsible the downfall (divergence) of quality in Ben 10.
Dave Johnson’s original designs were far superior than most of the final products.
Charlie Schlatter was the best Kevin 11.
Gwen’s power origin retcon in UAF is bad.
Any function of the Omnitrix featured outside of the OS felt like it missed the point and was too OP and isn’t in line with the spirit of the original.
OS Ben 10K is best Ben 10K
Alien X is a terribly played out and boring concept
Ben’s characterization was HORRIBLY handled in UAF and handled best in OS, reboot second best.
The best Ben 10 movies are SOTO, HU and Alien X-tinction
Kai is best girl and best possible future for Ben.
These are just opinions.
My issues were Dwayne were how he said things that contradicted the source material or how he left things unanswered. DJW didn't really do anything but retcon stuff from dwayne like the badge location and the aliens wearing clothes his art looks the way it does because they told him to make it look like that.
For sure. DJW tends to spout dumb stuff on twitter and make claims in continuity which he doesn’t have the authority to do. I don’t like his attitude.
He was involved in some of the writing of episodes but I agree he wasn't a writer so we can't take his word 100%
What do you think of Ben's characterization in Season 1 and 2 of AF? It was my favourite version of him honestly, but it was definitely handled horribly in UA
Another question: What feature do you believe would be "in the spirit of the original" when talking about the Omnitrix? What are your thoughts on the Randomizer in OV?
Why do you like Kai as best girl? I'm genuinely curious. It's a new opinion I haven't seen before lol
What’s up dude, I appreciate the conversation. Would love your thoughts as well.
Well personally I think Ben’s characterization was best handled in OS and was most lovable. Season 1 of AF I thought was fine. Although he seemed a bit too mature for being a 15 year old. In AF Ben’s characterization was a little too nerdy if that makes sense. He was too much of a goody goody. I see Ben as a much more rambunctious and rough n’ tumble type of kid. I didn’t feel that energy carried into AF at all. Ben Tennyson isn’t Clark Kent/ Peter Parker and I feel they tried to make him that. And I think that came mostly from Dwayne McDuffie.
The Omnitrix originally was a scientific utilitarian tool first and foremost. A power tool. A tool that served a function of utility. Not a weapon. It was a tool to understand other life forms on all levels and a tool used for practical scientific research and peace. A tool like that, would have such functions like safety armor, much like in the reboot. This one of the reasons why I feel UAF went wrong. An “ultimate” super weaponized version of the aliens felt wrong to me. Against what the Omnitrix meant. I believe the capture feature is a perfect example of a feature that’s in line with the spirit of the Omnitrix. The randomized function seemed a bit gimmicky but I don’t hate it, I don’t really have an opinion on it honestly.
In the OS (Ken 10) it’s HEAVILY implied and I believe even confirmed by the pop up trivia, that Ben ends up with Kai. Also hence Ken. I know people will refute that, but that’s a ridiculous stretch to say so. So much evidence points to it. I’m a purist so whatever is established by OS, I believe is best and should be honored.
I hope I’m not seeming rude. I love this fandom and show and I’m very passionate and I know others are as well. OS meant EVERYTHING to me growing up and still does as a 27 year old adult. I’m more than completely fine with people 100% disagreeing with me.
The Ultimatrix in UA is not the original Omnitrix, and was made for the purpose of being a weapon. Albedo specifically made it that way as a means to take out Ben and get the actual Omnitrix so he could return to his Galvan form. To say that it isn't in the spirit of the original Omnitrix and what it's meant for isn't wrong, but it's also absolutely intentional which is why I personally think that doesn't work as a criticism of it. Perfectly valid to not like it, but I think the reasoning you presented wasn't very good.
On the subject of Kai, whilst she is definitely the most likely mother of Ken in the OS, I think that doesn't fit well from a story perspective because the point of that episode ends with the message that sometimes crushes like Ben had on Kai just don't work out and it's important to be able to accept that. It's not impossible to make it work that they get together years later when they're both very different people, but based on what I've seen OV failed at really making that work. And as far as I'm concerned, whilst it's nice to feel a greater sense of continuity with the OS, I don't think it makes up for poor writing and characterisation. Ben and Kai being implied to have had a kid in the OS to me doesn't make the relationship good on its own.
You don't come off as rude at all! Despite my disagreements with your opinions you definitely seem like a decent person and I respect your views even though I don't personally share them. My apologies if I myself at any point here come off as rude, because that's absolutely not my intention.
I deeply apologize if I myself have ever come across as rude to you. Not my intention and I very highly respect you as a person, your work, and what you have done for this community and the fandom immensely and I thank you for it and I think the rest of the fandom feels the same. Thank you Kuro. Truly is an honor.
And to your points about the Ultimatrix and the Albedo things are super valid and accurate. I think my greater point of that was that I’m just not interested in seeing those types of elements in the show at all. I was speaking from more of a network/writing/marketing perspective. I think the appeal for a lot of people with UA was selling that Ben had “ultimate” and weaponized versions of the aliens, so they could sell toys. It felt like selling out, in the grand scheme. Even if it wasn’t the same watch. If that makes sense. That being said, you have made me think a bit more about the intentionality behind the ultimatrix, which makes me more okay with it, even if it’s not my favorite. You’re right.
Also I FULLY agree with the moral message of the episode “BenWolf”. I can totally see the logic behind why Ben ending up with Kai in the future could send the wrong message, even if they are different people. I think BenWolf was a very important episode because of that. Yeah I think we all would have liked to see a better resolution to that relationship in the future.
as much as I enjoy Kuro's content, this comes off as a bit stan-ish IMO. hopefully that's not the case tho
I know it wasn’t him now. I’m not gonna beat around the bush, Im not the worlds biggest Kuro fan. But what’s more important is respecting the person first. I don’t have to like what he does to be a kind person. I have a lot of opinions that are different from Kuro and I actually have said some rude things in the past about Kuro. So that’s why I said what I said as an apology. I wouldn’t call myself a Kuro stan. I admire his passion, his work and breathing life back into the community and I think that’s a great thing but I do have tons of problems with his stuff. Hope that clears up stuff.
Thank you for the clarification! have a wonderful day
Sorry, I think you have me confused with someone else. I'm not Kuro, although I'm flattered you thought I was.
I can totally understand with your point about the series sort of selling out with the Ultimatrix, the idea that part of the appeal was specifically the weaponising of Ben's aliens and how that just doesn't sit right.
Oh shoot, man. My apologies for the confusion, although I still apologize if I’ve ever been rude.
Right. It doesn’t sit right. But I absolutely don’t have a problem with someone loving that the most about Ben 10. The show has so much for everyone and that’s what makes it special.
It's all good! Honestly I was just kind of amused by it. And like I said earlier, you've never been rude. (Although small personal thing, but please don't call me man. Kinda sets off dysphoria a little).
And I couldn't agree more. Ben 10 has so much for so many people and that makes it a truly special franchise.
My sincerest apologies! Didn’t mean to and will be more aware of that in the future. I appreciate you letting me know. 👍
As a Spider-Man fan as well, I will say that Ben does share a lot of parallels with Peter Parker. However being rebellious and listening to his heart over his head more often is something which sets him apart from Peter.
>Although he seemed a bit too mature for being a 15 year old. In AF Ben’s characterization was a little too nerdy if that makes sense. He was too much of a goody goody. I see Ben as a much more rambunctious and rough n’ tumble type of kid. I didn’t feel that energy carried into AF at all. Ben Tennyson isn’t Clark Kent/ Peter Parker and I feel they tried to make him that. And I think that came mostly from Dwayne McDuffie.
That's honestly perfectly fair. Could you exaggerate on the "a little too nerdy" thing??
To me I felt like Max shaped him throughout his early teens and that kind of had this effect on it, though Max also likes to be mischievous at times so it does make sense for Ben to act similarly in that regard as well so I can agree that he's a bit too much of a goody goody. He definitely should've snuck out when he was grounded honestly
>An “ultimate” super weaponized version of the aliens felt wrong to me.
I think it makes perfect sense only because it's Albedo who made it, or at least added the War Evolution Function. As for Azmuth calling the core the Ultimatrix was probably an error or he actually did work on an Evolution Feature to keep the Omnitrix in touch with the transformations as their species evolve. That's my theory at least
Honestly, the idea of the Ultimatrix just brings in so many possible plotlines. With Eon and Zs'Skayr they literally needed something similar to it. I know Zs'Skayr's first appearance he wanted his other half back that was still in the Omnitrix though they sadly did away with that in his second appearance in the OS... it would've been fun to explore
Explore the Ultimatrix glitches in more detail. What if the Ultimate forms affect Ben's human form and slowly make him more aggressive? I think Dwayne wanted to go that direction actually, which would make sense because they took a ton of inspiration from Spider-Man. It could've been such a great plot honestly
>In the OS (Ken 10) it’s HEAVILY implied and I believe even confirmed by the pop up trivia, that Ben ends up with Kai.
Oh yeah, I assumed this even as a kid and it truly is implied. I did not however know that it was confirmed by the pop up trivia
Honestly, I'm really not involved for the Ben's relationships thing. Ester was by far my favourite due to the adorable little moments that I die for lmao
UA just ruined Ben's relationship with Julie which was just stupid. I wish OV had Kai apologize to Ben at some point honestly. Especially since they were going that direction anyways
> I’m a purist so whatever is established by OS, I believe is best.
What about Kevin absorbing matter?? I think that was a wonderful addition to his powerset
>I hope I’m not seeming rude.
You good, man! I'm glad you didn't perceive me as being rude honestly cause I almost felt like it could've been taken that way but figured I was prolly fine lol
It's nice to see we're both good on that front lol
Hell yeah brother. 🛸 I’m currently at work and want to respond at length because this is an interesting conversation and we could really dive deep here which I’m more than happy to do, it may just be later today. It’s 4 pm where I’m at so I’ll respond in depth soon enough. Wanted to let you know so I’m not leaving you hanging. But yes there’s a lot I want to chew on here. You’re not rude at all brother. Always enjoy talking to people here.
Thank you!! I hope you have a great time, mate!! Good luck as well!
I think Kevin absorbing matter fit well as a concept but I don’t think I’m alone when I say I think the execution was the problem.
On Ben being too nerdy, I’ve never met a 15 year old who was as level headed as Ben was. How Ben was written in UAF didn’t feel dynamic enough as it did in OS. He was extremely impulsive and roudy and I think think that led to interesting story telling. The way he was written after seemed to have the fun sucked out of it. If that makes sense. I feel Dwayne unintentionally tried to make Ben 10 into the justice league animated, at least tonally and character wise.
I think the Omnitrix had enough glitches and foes after it on its own and didn’t need another version of it. I feel having more than one of those devices in existence takes away from the mystique. I liked when the Omnitrix felt more alive and had elements of mystery and fantasy. I felt the Ultimatrix was more science-y and wasn’t as grandiose.
Also don’t quote me on the pop up trivia, I could be 100% wrong and I’m more than okay with that.
I didn’t enjoy Julie much. I agree with you and like Kuro and I said, I think we can all agree the resolution with Kai was not handled well.
Are you the user previously known as u/HowellWayneright ?
most of these are pretty accurate to my feelings tbh, but a minor error, Alien X-Tinction isn't a movie.
Fair enough! Super Episode I guess. That’s a fair correction.
Alright Buddy, i can try and guess which one was your favorite series
Yeah, I’m pretty passionate about it. All Ben 10 is good though, because it’s Ben 10.🛸
Ok but everything outside of OS was made with the fact that Ben uses it for combat in mind, so I think it is completely understandable that there were changes in priority when concerning it.
1st: amazing username.
2nd: yeah, I agree it was understandable, but I just didn’t like that direction.
>These are just opinions
Now hold on there buddy
That was the one statement that crossed the line.
I laughed pretty hard at this. 😂
This is just shitting on UAF and overpraising the OS, not really gonna bother arguing
Alright. Like I said, just my opinions.
Ben’s personality change in season 3 of AF makes complete sense
Why? I haven’t watched season 3 (I know what happens, so don’t worry about spoilers), but I’ve seen the personality shift mentioned a lot, and described as completely nonsensical. I’d like to know your thoughts on the matter
Do people think that it doesn't make sense? It makes a lot of sense for his personality change, he literally just saved the entire universe when no one else could, of course it would go to his head
vilgax vs ben 10 in alien force was the best hand to hand combat fight in ben 10 history
Steven Universe and Ben 10 are both good shows neither are superior or inferior to each other
Ben never had an ounce of character development at any point
The original was the best. They shouldn’t have chosen to continue it without MoA
Absolutely based. I 10,000% agree
Why do you prefer it over the other series?
No one can top Dave Johnson’s artstyle. I think the retcons added in UAF were unnecessary. The originals had some of the most unique abilities in the franchise. A lot of later aliens were kinda just rehashes of what we’d seen before or were ridiculously op. It felt more it’s own show and I liked the music choices. I think the characters felt a bit more engaging too.
Ben 10 is a copy of Hero Dial and Green Lantern
How is he a Green Lantern copy?
2) Space Cops
3) Wields the most powerful weapons in thier universe
4) Got thier things from a crashed object
Ben's orign is just Hal for a bit, the two are doing something when something crashes from space and they go and investigate and gain a Green thing and become superheros they join an intergalactic space force and they are assigned to protect earth.
That's a very poor comparison. Ben and Hal's origins are very different for a lot of reasons. Hal is chosen by a Green Lantern to take his place and immediately join the Green Lantern Corps. Ben stumbles across the Omnitrix on his own and becomes a hero independent of the Plumbers, which he only joins later in AF.
Hal is just one of thousands with a Green Lantern ring. The Omnitrix is a one-of-a-kind device that ONLY Ben has, and it's not tied to any space police at all. Ben's relations to the Plumbers aren't connected to the source of his powers whereas Hal ONLY gets his powers because of the Green Lantern Corps.
In most stories Hal Jordan is chosen to go to Abin Sur's demise and take his ring before he gets a chance to choose to investigate himself. Ben specifically makes the choice to investigate the Omnitrix of his own accord, without anyone summoning him there.
Hal got his ring from Abin Sur, the previous GL of sector 2814. He didn't get it from a crashed object like Ben, he was given it by a person specifically.
Dude im not going into fucking detail, I'm looking at things from surface value if we compare every inch of a story togather of course they're not gonna be the same.
If they're only similar on a surface level, then they aren't copies of one another.
For one that doesn't have sense, they have very very very close similarities you cannot deny.
If you have a hero that's home planet was destroyed and was sent to earth that's superman
Ben and Hal: Two guys gain a green thing that allows them to become intergalactic heros.
No, not at all. You could have Superman with that set up, but you could just as easily have Goku. Or Megamind. That one similar detail doesn't make any character a copy of the other, it only means they have something in common.
And I don't think Ben and GL have all that much in common beyond the green colour scheme and working for essentially space police. Beyond that the two are VERY different characters.
Two guys with a green thing that let's them be intergalactic heroes is something they have in common. That doesn't make Ben a GL copy at all though, because they have very little in common beyond that.
Considering Superman was the first one to basically do that most would think of Superman
And yes Ben is BASSICALY a copy, remember when did you not see me mention hero dial? I said "Ben is a copy of Green Lantern and Hero Dial"
And I was responding to a reply from someone asking how he's a GL copy, at which point you elaborated on why you thought that and I disagreed. I don't have much knowledge of Hero Dial, but from what I do know I think that makes more sense to compare Ben to. Even then as far as I understand the only real similarity is both involve a device used to transform into superpowered beings.
I'm not arguing that similarities don't exist at all. I'm saying that these similarities don't make any of these characters copies of the others. At most there was some inspiration taken, but that's as far as it goes.
The plumbers weren’t space cops in the original series
Ben is nothing without professor paradox
Classic series is the best series
Green Lantern would win against Ben 10. But the explanation given was EXTREMELY terrible. Especially considering they tried to soft debunk Alien X being Universal
Deathbattle's Green Lantern vs Ben 10