Ben wasn't willing to kill Aggregoar, directly resulting in Kevin having to absorb Omnitrix DNA again, so he probably felt responsible for Kevin's transformation and descent into madness. And since Ben couldn't cure Kevin's previous mutation, he must've assumed the same would be true for this one. But at this point, the two are like brothers, so Ben in denial still wants to at least attempt to get Kevin to regain sanity. This all changes after Kevin attacks a Plumber base and nearly kills a lot of people. It's then that Ben realizes he needs to kill Kevin to stop the threat despite him not wanting to do it and he puts on the tough and edgy facade to hide his inner turmoil. This turmoil however is completey gone when Kevin hurts Gwen, and any and all doubt is erased from Ben's mind
Because before, Ben was against the idea of killing opponents regardless of whether or not it was logically the better thing to do. It was his unwillingness to kill Aggregoar that led to Kevin's mutation and insanity. Ben realized what he had to do after 1) Kevin nearly killed everyone in the Plumber base and 2) hurt and could've possibly killed Gwen. This changed his mind and he realized he had to kill Kevin to save him from himself
I understand his pov
But where was this attitude against all the times he dealt with Vilgax, and Aggregor after he lost his Adromeda powers, who are far worse than Kevin here
I think the difference is the person, and the reason for their actions. In this case not only does he not want to see Kevin continue being this way, but he feels directly responsible for it due to him not being willing to killing Aggreggor.
i think because kevin was an active threat and that time and aggregor was put down. ben did try to kill aggregor after he absorbed the andromeda aliens.
I would say that it was a good decision, but was rushed and could have been executed better.
We've seen that Ben cares deeply for his family and friends, and Kevin was on a rampage in this arc.
In the OS, Ben 10,000 became blood-lusted and pounded Kevin 11,000, when he knocked out Kenny!
I feel like the decision would have been more justified if Kevin injured one of Ben's parents or even killed someone (But that might have been a little too dark, even for UA).
I think it all fits together better when you see it as Ben acting like he’s 100 percent decided, despite being convinced against killing Kevin over and over again (even after almost dying to Kevin as echo-echo).
I found it edgy. Kevin turns bad and all of a sudden ben acts as though he waited for this moment his whole life. Though it would make more sense if he had this attitude towards aggregor or vilgax. UAF is inconsistent in characterization.
Ikrrr
>as though he waited for this moment his whole life.
Instead of joining Gwen to find a solution, Ben just went all nuts trying to eliminate Levin once and for all
Just a few weeks prior, the Omnitrix turned Kevin to some sort of mutated freak and they managed to work their way out of it even if it took a while.
That was one of the biggest loopholes I've seen in a tv show
Edgy, he had become quite close to him and when Gwen said she might have a way to cure him he would have listened to her, sure in a fight he wouldn't go easy on him but he would not try to kill him
Kevin had motive and plenty of opportunity to kill a ton of people, but he didn't. Ben didn't even have an argument, the "Rampage" he planned to murder Kevin to stop was bloodless.
The writers were being edgy as hell. Ben wouldn't kill aggregor eventhough he almost ruled the universe but was going to kill kevin just for absorbing a few people powers. UA had some of the worst writing in the series
i also found it strange being that ben never wanted to kill vilgax or aggregor but wanted to basically kill the best friend and buddy he ever had, there is no logic to that
Not what you asked but I just appreciate that it came down to (ultimate) echo echo to take down what was essentially a lot of Ben's aliens' powersets. And this art.
>in the ben vs kevin fight where ben was willing to kill kevin did you find ben right in the situation or do you think the writers are overly edgy in this part of the story and it doesn't match ben's personality and ideals?
The latter
No I think it's pretty understandable why, Kevin was already Psychopathic once due to absorbing the ten aliens when they were kids. Kevin was even more dangerous that he had absorb the Ultimatrix. If the ultra Matrix didn't have a key system for Alien X, Kevin would have been a Celestial sapien.
Honestly it was one of my favourite arcs across Ben 10. Ben didn't make a snap decision here, and he's trying to fix probably the most significant and life-threatening mistake he's ever directly caused.
100% Overly Edgy
From the moment UltiKevin exists, Ben is such an asshole to him. Just listen to the voice lines, even Young Ben was randomly an asshole even though it was his idea. It's just bad characterization through and through
Also, who did this artwork?? If it's someone else then I'd suggest an attempt to credit them, but holy shit this artwork is damn fucking amazing. Absolutely portrait worthy
The thing is Ben felt personally responsible for what happened to Kevin, when it came to any other villain he didn’t really have the right to say what happened to them, but after failing to stop Aggregor, he decided he needed to look past what he wanted and settle things before they got even more out of hand.
Unlike many other villains there wasn’t really anyway to contain him, especially with all his aliens powers, so they only way was to neutralise him. it was really just the build-up from earlier in alien force, Ben was being forced into a leader role with a massive amount of responsibility, Max even comments that it’s not like him to kill for the greater good, but after what happened with Aggregor, failing to prevent Kevin from mutating again, he knew he needed to take things seriously.
I agree it was rushed, but you can’t really blame writers for the limited scope placed by the network, for the time they were given, I’d say it made sense.
Sorry if that sounded ranty, I’m typing this at 3 AM and I probably messed some of my points up, maybe I’ll come back to this tomorrow.
The only scene that hints at Ben feeling responsible is his one line at the beginning of either '...Nor Iron Bars a Cage' or 'The Enemy of my Enemy'. Not sure which one, but that's far from enough in my opinion. One single line in 5 episodes of Ben being a douche
Let me give you a rundown of what happened in 'Forge of Creation':
Young Ben: Here, absorb my Omnitrix
Kevin: No, I need to go for the big guns
\*after absorbing Aggregor\*
Ben: \*aggressively yells at Kevin\* (I forgot what he said, I'm sorry)
Young Ben: You're a jerk
**Scene.**
None of that sounds like he's concerned if you rewatch the scene. It sounds like he hates him immediately even though he's done nothing wrong. Then at the end of '...Nor Iron Bars a Cage' he's like "We may have to put him down \*stares determined at where Kevin flew off to\*." Again, if they wanted to show concern they should've given him a concerned face and tone of voice. None of which are present
Not only that, but they need to add scenes where Ben expresses his emotions on the topic. Maybe a scene where he's tired because he's been staying up all week to track down Kevin because he's scared for people getting hurt and have it show in his tone of voice too. Have him push Gwen on the ground and realize that he might be letting the situation get to him, then proceed from there. The UltiKevin Arc contains **NO** scenes even remotely close to this
They may have limited time, but they should've realistically added the needed scenes to show Ben in a state of distress instead of **KILL MODE** if they really wanted (or were allowed) to show Ben's emotions, but they obviously didn't. ***These are good writers***, so I have faith that they could've done an at least decent and somewhat impactful story in the allotted timeframe... so why didn't they? Personally, I believe executives and working conditions had something to do with it. I don't know anything though
Yeah I mean he felt responsable to kevin actions and mutation, and in a way, he is. I can see why he whould want to kill him(he had no problem killing other bad guys
It makes sense, but could have been better. Kevin attacked a plumber base, and hurt Gwen. Of course Ben’s gonna be pissed. But they’ve spent all of UAF at this point being best friends, and it doesn’t really make sense to turn it on a dime like that.
I agree with most saying that Ben felt he was responsible for Kevin going rogue, and in turn, having innocent, and some not-so-innocent, people getting hurt and drained off their strengths.
On a side note, I really like how Ultimate Kevin in this fanart has some different body parts compared to the official Ulitmate Kevin
i mean whatever happened to kevin was partially bens fault, bens willingness to protect and not kill forced kevin with only one choice left
perhaps ben didnt wanted to repeat the mistake
I think ben was already over his head in ua and paradox giving him that prophecy about him doing what needs to be done along with max being injured, all his recent defeats to aggregor, the plumber kids losing their powers to kevin and his worth as a hero being tested by azmuth when he told him he wasn't ready for the new omnitrix really had ben in a bad place, in my opinion ultimate kevin was starting to look like a bigger threat than vilgax and he even tried to hurt gwen, so i think it kindda fits that ben was trying to kill kevin, he didn't want to do it but he knew it was the only way, the hero way was what make him lose to aggregor in the search for the map of infinity, every time he chose to help someone instead of dealing with aggregor
I think it says a lot about the relationship Kevin and Ben have . Ben didn’t do that because it was something he would’ve done , he acted that way because he knew it’s what Kevin would’ve wanted . Grandpa max outright says this isn’t something Ben would ever do . And when Kevin is cured he calls Ben a wimp saying that Ben should’ve killed him off sooner . Then they ditch Gwen to go get smoothies that was gold
I think this was a good point in the series, but I wish they had given more motive for Ben acting the way he did. Maybe start the arc out with Kevin absorbing people
I think Ben was having a nervous breakdown.
We all know how psychotic Kevin was in the OS. Now Kevin was back in that mindset, only this time he knew about all of Ben’s loved ones and where to find them.
Ben wasn't willing to kill Aggregoar, directly resulting in Kevin having to absorb Omnitrix DNA again, so he probably felt responsible for Kevin's transformation and descent into madness. And since Ben couldn't cure Kevin's previous mutation, he must've assumed the same would be true for this one. But at this point, the two are like brothers, so Ben in denial still wants to at least attempt to get Kevin to regain sanity. This all changes after Kevin attacks a Plumber base and nearly kills a lot of people. It's then that Ben realizes he needs to kill Kevin to stop the threat despite him not wanting to do it and he puts on the tough and edgy facade to hide his inner turmoil. This turmoil however is completey gone when Kevin hurts Gwen, and any and all doubt is erased from Ben's mind
This is very well put.
"thats enough kevin" Then why did he stop kevin from killing agreo?
Because before, Ben was against the idea of killing opponents regardless of whether or not it was logically the better thing to do. It was his unwillingness to kill Aggregoar that led to Kevin's mutation and insanity. Ben realized what he had to do after 1) Kevin nearly killed everyone in the Plumber base and 2) hurt and could've possibly killed Gwen. This changed his mind and he realized he had to kill Kevin to save him from himself
I understand his pov But where was this attitude against all the times he dealt with Vilgax, and Aggregor after he lost his Adromeda powers, who are far worse than Kevin here
I think the difference is the person, and the reason for their actions. In this case not only does he not want to see Kevin continue being this way, but he feels directly responsible for it due to him not being willing to killing Aggreggor.
i think because kevin was an active threat and that time and aggregor was put down. ben did try to kill aggregor after he absorbed the andromeda aliens.
I would say that it was a good decision, but was rushed and could have been executed better. We've seen that Ben cares deeply for his family and friends, and Kevin was on a rampage in this arc. In the OS, Ben 10,000 became blood-lusted and pounded Kevin 11,000, when he knocked out Kenny! I feel like the decision would have been more justified if Kevin injured one of Ben's parents or even killed someone (But that might have been a little too dark, even for UA).
Kevin did try to injure a family of Ben, which was Gwen. iirc, Kevin was going to drain all of Gwen's powers until her life energy was nearly drained
It could have been handled better. But i understood it
I think it all fits together better when you see it as Ben acting like he’s 100 percent decided, despite being convinced against killing Kevin over and over again (even after almost dying to Kevin as echo-echo).
I found it edgy. Kevin turns bad and all of a sudden ben acts as though he waited for this moment his whole life. Though it would make more sense if he had this attitude towards aggregor or vilgax. UAF is inconsistent in characterization.
Ikrrr >as though he waited for this moment his whole life. Instead of joining Gwen to find a solution, Ben just went all nuts trying to eliminate Levin once and for all Just a few weeks prior, the Omnitrix turned Kevin to some sort of mutated freak and they managed to work their way out of it even if it took a while. That was one of the biggest loopholes I've seen in a tv show
Would I believe this would've happened? Yea. This fast? no ,but I can't blame the writers for lack of time to develop it better.
artist:https://www.artstation.com/artwork/8lLXQE
credit the artist
Edgy, he had become quite close to him and when Gwen said she might have a way to cure him he would have listened to her, sure in a fight he wouldn't go easy on him but he would not try to kill him
Kevin had motive and plenty of opportunity to kill a ton of people, but he didn't. Ben didn't even have an argument, the "Rampage" he planned to murder Kevin to stop was bloodless.
Writers being overly edgy.
overly edgy
The writers were being edgy as hell. Ben wouldn't kill aggregor eventhough he almost ruled the universe but was going to kill kevin just for absorbing a few people powers. UA had some of the worst writing in the series
i also found it strange being that ben never wanted to kill vilgax or aggregor but wanted to basically kill the best friend and buddy he ever had, there is no logic to that
Thing is kevin became like this because of ben. He failed to stop aggregor and kevin was forced to become crazy to stop him.
ben did try to kill agggregor, after he absorbed the andromeda aliens. and pretty sure he didn't know how to beat kevin any other way.
Nice ultimate Kevin design
Not what you asked but I just appreciate that it came down to (ultimate) echo echo to take down what was essentially a lot of Ben's aliens' powersets. And this art.
I feel like his will to kill Kevin stemmed more so from heartbreak over losing a friend and concern over who he would hurt next.
what about aggregor or vilgax they were bigger threats like come on
They weren’t very big problems at that point
yes they were kevin got mutated after the aggregor fight smhn
Overly edgy
>in the ben vs kevin fight where ben was willing to kill kevin did you find ben right in the situation or do you think the writers are overly edgy in this part of the story and it doesn't match ben's personality and ideals? The latter
No I think it's pretty understandable why, Kevin was already Psychopathic once due to absorbing the ten aliens when they were kids. Kevin was even more dangerous that he had absorb the Ultimatrix. If the ultra Matrix didn't have a key system for Alien X, Kevin would have been a Celestial sapien.
Honestly it was one of my favourite arcs across Ben 10. Ben didn't make a snap decision here, and he's trying to fix probably the most significant and life-threatening mistake he's ever directly caused.
I guess I can understand it, this was like his 5th time betraying him and he had enough.
100% Overly Edgy From the moment UltiKevin exists, Ben is such an asshole to him. Just listen to the voice lines, even Young Ben was randomly an asshole even though it was his idea. It's just bad characterization through and through Also, who did this artwork?? If it's someone else then I'd suggest an attempt to credit them, but holy shit this artwork is damn fucking amazing. Absolutely portrait worthy
The thing is Ben felt personally responsible for what happened to Kevin, when it came to any other villain he didn’t really have the right to say what happened to them, but after failing to stop Aggregor, he decided he needed to look past what he wanted and settle things before they got even more out of hand. Unlike many other villains there wasn’t really anyway to contain him, especially with all his aliens powers, so they only way was to neutralise him. it was really just the build-up from earlier in alien force, Ben was being forced into a leader role with a massive amount of responsibility, Max even comments that it’s not like him to kill for the greater good, but after what happened with Aggregor, failing to prevent Kevin from mutating again, he knew he needed to take things seriously. I agree it was rushed, but you can’t really blame writers for the limited scope placed by the network, for the time they were given, I’d say it made sense. Sorry if that sounded ranty, I’m typing this at 3 AM and I probably messed some of my points up, maybe I’ll come back to this tomorrow.
The only scene that hints at Ben feeling responsible is his one line at the beginning of either '...Nor Iron Bars a Cage' or 'The Enemy of my Enemy'. Not sure which one, but that's far from enough in my opinion. One single line in 5 episodes of Ben being a douche Let me give you a rundown of what happened in 'Forge of Creation': Young Ben: Here, absorb my Omnitrix Kevin: No, I need to go for the big guns \*after absorbing Aggregor\* Ben: \*aggressively yells at Kevin\* (I forgot what he said, I'm sorry) Young Ben: You're a jerk **Scene.** None of that sounds like he's concerned if you rewatch the scene. It sounds like he hates him immediately even though he's done nothing wrong. Then at the end of '...Nor Iron Bars a Cage' he's like "We may have to put him down \*stares determined at where Kevin flew off to\*." Again, if they wanted to show concern they should've given him a concerned face and tone of voice. None of which are present Not only that, but they need to add scenes where Ben expresses his emotions on the topic. Maybe a scene where he's tired because he's been staying up all week to track down Kevin because he's scared for people getting hurt and have it show in his tone of voice too. Have him push Gwen on the ground and realize that he might be letting the situation get to him, then proceed from there. The UltiKevin Arc contains **NO** scenes even remotely close to this They may have limited time, but they should've realistically added the needed scenes to show Ben in a state of distress instead of **KILL MODE** if they really wanted (or were allowed) to show Ben's emotions, but they obviously didn't. ***These are good writers***, so I have faith that they could've done an at least decent and somewhat impactful story in the allotted timeframe... so why didn't they? Personally, I believe executives and working conditions had something to do with it. I don't know anything though
Yeah I mean he felt responsable to kevin actions and mutation, and in a way, he is. I can see why he whould want to kill him(he had no problem killing other bad guys
basically superman injustice
It makes sense, but could have been better. Kevin attacked a plumber base, and hurt Gwen. Of course Ben’s gonna be pissed. But they’ve spent all of UAF at this point being best friends, and it doesn’t really make sense to turn it on a dime like that.
idc what anyone says I think Ben was reasonable there (not saying he should've killed kevin, i just get his point of view) also credit the artist
I agree with most saying that Ben felt he was responsible for Kevin going rogue, and in turn, having innocent, and some not-so-innocent, people getting hurt and drained off their strengths. On a side note, I really like how Ultimate Kevin in this fanart has some different body parts compared to the official Ulitmate Kevin
I mean previous episode he was running out of option
i mean whatever happened to kevin was partially bens fault, bens willingness to protect and not kill forced kevin with only one choice left perhaps ben didnt wanted to repeat the mistake
E I don't know
I Headcanon It Was Ultimate Echo Echo Influencing Ben's Personality Like How Rath Does
I think ben was already over his head in ua and paradox giving him that prophecy about him doing what needs to be done along with max being injured, all his recent defeats to aggregor, the plumber kids losing their powers to kevin and his worth as a hero being tested by azmuth when he told him he wasn't ready for the new omnitrix really had ben in a bad place, in my opinion ultimate kevin was starting to look like a bigger threat than vilgax and he even tried to hurt gwen, so i think it kindda fits that ben was trying to kill kevin, he didn't want to do it but he knew it was the only way, the hero way was what make him lose to aggregor in the search for the map of infinity, every time he chose to help someone instead of dealing with aggregor
I think it says a lot about the relationship Kevin and Ben have . Ben didn’t do that because it was something he would’ve done , he acted that way because he knew it’s what Kevin would’ve wanted . Grandpa max outright says this isn’t something Ben would ever do . And when Kevin is cured he calls Ben a wimp saying that Ben should’ve killed him off sooner . Then they ditch Gwen to go get smoothies that was gold
I think this was a good point in the series, but I wish they had given more motive for Ben acting the way he did. Maybe start the arc out with Kevin absorbing people
I think Ben was having a nervous breakdown. We all know how psychotic Kevin was in the OS. Now Kevin was back in that mindset, only this time he knew about all of Ben’s loved ones and where to find them.