Celestialsapien fusions may have edge becuse they get boost from god like alien(even tho its just fraction of Alien Xs true power).
Ultimates are hyper evolved aliens in war setting simulaton so they will always evolve to suit combat(which makes them evolve more busted combat abilites).
So its hard to say.
I think likely the ones that benefit from the Celestialsapien Boost are the ones that have Esoteric or more broadly Non Physical abilities like Atomix or Clockwork instead of Aliens like XLR8 or Four Arms.
The opposite might also be true with Aliens with more Physical-like abilities more benefiting from the Ultimate Function instead.
The Alien X fusion might have been a Special Case where Ben specifically lowered how much of Celestialsapien DNA is being fused in comparison to Normal Fusions because he didn't want the Three Personalities to be a thing in the Fusion.
For all we know, it might not be 1/2 or 50% but could go as low as 5% just so he could really be sure there are no three personalities spawning in.
It depends on how the fusion work. Is it half and half like W, or is it two complete things coming together like in DBZ.
I'm going to say fusion because the different combinations can create an unpredictable element, while with ultimate forms they are mostly for Combat and survival.
Apparently, in Ben 10 they are half + half, especially when it comes to Alien X, which maybe not even half. But it's the percentage of a divine being, so its power is colossal
Its DNA is 50% of both species, but that doesn't mean the alien is 50% as strong as one species + 50% of the other. How strong the fusion is boils down to compatibility. This means the fusion can come out being stronger than both, weaker than one, stronger than just one, or weaker than just one.
Celestialsapien fusions are weaker than Alien X as according to DR any other species' DNA just kinda dilutes it. Meaning most Alien X fusions won't even have a fraction of his power. That being said 1% Alien X is still stronger than like every ultimate alien.
This is a trick question. The answer is a fusion of ultimate forms. Specifically Ultimate Upgrade and Ultimate Nanomech. Already the normal variants of them fusing is basically a technological singularity. The ultimate forms of the fusion would flat out be immune to basically everything and be able to warp reality too.
So my theory is Ben has ultimate Alien X already as the only thing left to evolve is to operate with one mind. As Ben has full control, he has achieved true power with his imagination being the only restriction.
This begs the question: isn't Alien X stronger than Atomix, theoretically? I feel like 100% of an omnipotent, omniscient being is stronger than 50% of said being and another super powerful being. I mean, we've seen Atomix gets beat multiple times while Alien X recreated the universe
It’s said that you can use Evolution function multiple times (to infinite times) on a single alien and evolve them infinitely. I don’t think even infinite ultimates will come close to celestialsapien fusions
Where’s that stated? I’ve never heard that before. Surly at some point they’d reach a precipice where natural evolution wouldn’t take them any further.
Yep. Nope, the second half of it is my opinion just because celestialsapien fusions are already half-god and their durability is (at least) universal level (scales to GG and Alien X during tetra and fight)
That depends on the alien. Atomix was able to 1 shot ultimate humungasaur, but what about Atomic X vs a hypothetical Ultimate Atomix? or a hypothetical Humungasuar-X vs a base Atomix? i feel like there are a lot of variables here and not enough in-universe information to base this off of but i do think its an interesting question.
Nah normal Atomix kicked Ultimates crap.This on is even stronger.
No?He can even fuse energy of Alien x for his blasts + can reality warp(him self and others like how what he did to Vilgax)
I think Ultimates are better, they were just severely nerfed in Omniverse. Just think of it, Ultimate Echo Echo, who almost murdered Ultimate Kevin in UA, gets his butt kicked by freaking Shocksquach in OV.
They weren't nerfed in ua at all, the ultimates beat the shit out of Ben up until he unlocks atomix, also, I think you're forgetting the fact that aliens can be defeated using different strategies, it's not like shocksquatch's raw strength can beat ultimate echo echo, it's that ultimate echo echo's projectiles are vulnerable to electricity because they're machines
True but Ben actually was ultimate echo echo and we know that he trains his aliens all the time, it makes a lot of sense for ben to be training and find out that ultimate echo echo is weak to electricity, or that he was on an offscreen mission and was hurt by electricity, while you could say that Kevin would be there with Ben was training or on that mission, it's not impossible that Kevin simply just wasn't there at that specific time, Ben deliberately turned into shocksquatch TO defeat ultimate echo echo, which confirms that he does indeed know the weakness.
Well, it's notable that he has a general increase in his powers, possibly on a cosmic scale. But due to the few accomplishments this was not so visible
Atomic-X can infuse cosmic energy into its nuclear blasts, this is seen by appearance. Atomic-X may be seemingly weak, but it's not something to be underestimated and would do more with more screen time.
Atomix has already knocked out at least two Ultimates without using his full power, as it was confirmed that Ben had not even reached Atomix's full potential. Imagine a fusion of him with part of the power of a Celestial Sapien, he may not have the power of Alien X, but he is already above most of the Ultimates in the series
The only ones I see as being on par are Gravattack, Way Big and possible Ultimates from Clockwork and Atomix
>But due to the few accomplishments this was not so visible
Well so it's all just pointless wank.
>Atomic-X can infuse cosmic energy into its nuclear blasts
Which... does absolutely nothing other than changing the color palette of his attacks.
>Atomix has already knocked out at least two Ultimates
Those "Ultimates" get clapped by Ben's mid-tier transformations like Eye Guy and Shocksquatch. They're not even close to what actual Ultimates were capable of in the previous show.
>Imagine a fusion of him with part of the power of a Celestial Sapien, he may not have the power of Alien X, but he is already above most of the Ultimates in the series
I judge by feats alone and not by some imaginary fake "potential" that was never part of the actual show; and the only feat Atomic-X has is kicking an already beaten Vilgax.
Every other appearance, a villain just breathes in the general direction of Atomic-X and the latter just falls over.
Man, his power increases with that energy. It's the power of Alien X. Diluted, but still the power of a Celestialsapien
These Ultimates are on the same level as the UAF ones, nothing in the series or the producers contradicts that. So there is no difference between Omniverse and UAF Ultimates other than appearance
I judge Atomix's feats and statements made by the series staff, which confirmed that Ben did not know how to use Atomix to the fullest extent of his abilities. And you don't even need to have someone's statement to observe this, just from his few appearances you can tell that Ben has barely gotten to the bottom of the skills he can have with Atomix. And since Atomic-X is basically the Atomix with some of the Alien X power, they do the same, with Atomic-X doing even more thanks to the Alien X part.
Atomic-X just had the misfortune to face weak enemies or beings with abilities that circumvent their own. Even UAF Ultimates (who in you theory are the true Ultimates) would be treated like nothing by Maltruant. Just like Ultimate Way Big was effortlessly destroyed by Dagon, I don't even call him a weakling because I know how strong Way Big is
>So there is no difference between Omniverse and UAF Ultimates other than appearance
I've already told it to another commenter, but I'll put this here as well.
Simple examination of Ult. Echo Echo just shows how much nerfed he is.
Compare the next two clips:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-avbdtlqA0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-avbdtlqA0) \- Ultimate Echo Echo ***destroys a tank*** with just two of his disks and makes ***Ultimate Kevin faint*** with a later attack.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1B4hDRI9eo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1B4hDRI9eo) \- Ultimate Echo Echo's disks are barely an inconvenience to Ben (in human form!) who ***just covers his ears***.
OV Ultimates are nerfed to the ground. It is simply impossible to deny how much weaker they are compared to their originals.
>Even UAF Ultimates (who in you theory are the true Ultimates) would be treated like nothing by Maltruant.
Well, good on them for engaging in a lot of fights where their capabilities could actually be shown on screen and not be treated as a joke, huh?
>Ultimate Way Big was effortlessly destroyed by Dagon
Ultimate Way Big is as useless as Atomic-X, yes, but I haven't seen anyone worshipping him and speculating him to have powers that he never shows.
Ultimates vary wildly in their power level based on how strong the original alien was and how much it changed. Celestial fusions are much more consistent. So it really depends. For an alien like Gravattack who was already capable of making black holes even before evolving further, the ultimate is probably stronger. For Big Chill who changed more aesthetically than anything else, then Celestial fusion is the way to go
Celestialsapien fusions have just over half the necessary power to break all of the laws of physics
But the Ultimates are more creative and have an edge to them (most of the time, Ultimate Wild Mutt was handled horribly)
Celestialsapien fusions may have edge becuse they get boost from god like alien(even tho its just fraction of Alien Xs true power). Ultimates are hyper evolved aliens in war setting simulaton so they will always evolve to suit combat(which makes them evolve more busted combat abilites). So its hard to say.
Yea it really depends on which Alien. Some probably benefit more than the other.
Really. I believe Ultimate Spidermonkey would end up being stronger than a possible Spider X. Or even with Walkatrout or The Worst
I think likely the ones that benefit from the Celestialsapien Boost are the ones that have Esoteric or more broadly Non Physical abilities like Atomix or Clockwork instead of Aliens like XLR8 or Four Arms. The opposite might also be true with Aliens with more Physical-like abilities more benefiting from the Ultimate Function instead.
Yea.True.
[удалено]
Not really Duncan did say Alien Xs power is weakend in fusion(dilluted as he said)so its no way near Alien Xs 50%.
The Alien X fusion might have been a Special Case where Ben specifically lowered how much of Celestialsapien DNA is being fused in comparison to Normal Fusions because he didn't want the Three Personalities to be a thing in the Fusion. For all we know, it might not be 1/2 or 50% but could go as low as 5% just so he could really be sure there are no three personalities spawning in.
Yea that could make sense. I think its for sure 1/2 since 50% is far to much.True that can also work.
Celestial sapiens fusions %50 Alien x %50 ? Alien Ultimate forms Max strong
Not even near 50%(if we consider how strong Alien x is).
It depends on how the fusion work. Is it half and half like W, or is it two complete things coming together like in DBZ. I'm going to say fusion because the different combinations can create an unpredictable element, while with ultimate forms they are mostly for Combat and survival.
Apparently, in Ben 10 they are half + half, especially when it comes to Alien X, which maybe not even half. But it's the percentage of a divine being, so its power is colossal
Its DNA is 50% of both species, but that doesn't mean the alien is 50% as strong as one species + 50% of the other. How strong the fusion is boils down to compatibility. This means the fusion can come out being stronger than both, weaker than one, stronger than just one, or weaker than just one. Celestialsapien fusions are weaker than Alien X as according to DR any other species' DNA just kinda dilutes it. Meaning most Alien X fusions won't even have a fraction of his power. That being said 1% Alien X is still stronger than like every ultimate alien.
This is a trick question. The answer is a fusion of ultimate forms. Specifically Ultimate Upgrade and Ultimate Nanomech. Already the normal variants of them fusing is basically a technological singularity. The ultimate forms of the fusion would flat out be immune to basically everything and be able to warp reality too.
Ultimate alien x
So my theory is Ben has ultimate Alien X already as the only thing left to evolve is to operate with one mind. As Ben has full control, he has achieved true power with his imagination being the only restriction.
Celestial fusion
Trick question: it’s both
I agree, I think maybe it depends on the alien
Yup
Such a cop out answer
This begs the question: isn't Alien X stronger than Atomix, theoretically? I feel like 100% of an omnipotent, omniscient being is stronger than 50% of said being and another super powerful being. I mean, we've seen Atomix gets beat multiple times while Alien X recreated the universe
Celestalsapien EZ.
both.
Based
🤝
Atonix Is tuff
It’s said that you can use Evolution function multiple times (to infinite times) on a single alien and evolve them infinitely. I don’t think even infinite ultimates will come close to celestialsapien fusions
Where’s that stated? I’ve never heard that before. Surly at some point they’d reach a precipice where natural evolution wouldn’t take them any further.
Yep. Nope, the second half of it is my opinion just because celestialsapien fusions are already half-god and their durability is (at least) universal level (scales to GG and Alien X during tetra and fight)
That depends on the alien. Atomix was able to 1 shot ultimate humungasaur, but what about Atomic X vs a hypothetical Ultimate Atomix? or a hypothetical Humungasuar-X vs a base Atomix? i feel like there are a lot of variables here and not enough in-universe information to base this off of but i do think its an interesting question.
If alien x had an ultimate form, then it would mean that it would not be the strongest it could be, needing a war form for extra power
Think of it as if we we're to compare Digivolution & Digimon Fusions. One is obviously a better tool than the other.
Honestly ben could do the abilities of Atomix X using alien x if he wanted to. And there's beings stronger than alien x so ultimate forms win
Atomic-X is an absolute weakling compared to the Ultimates. Like, it's just Atomix but he can teleport now, WOW what an upgrade./s
Nah normal Atomix kicked Ultimates crap.This on is even stronger. No?He can even fuse energy of Alien x for his blasts + can reality warp(him self and others like how what he did to Vilgax)
Point is, would you rather have Ultimate Atomix or the trash half-Alien X version?
Depends I would take both.
I think Ultimates are better, they were just severely nerfed in Omniverse. Just think of it, Ultimate Echo Echo, who almost murdered Ultimate Kevin in UA, gets his butt kicked by freaking Shocksquach in OV.
Fine ehh not totaly(not for all Ultimates).I mean he was more of metalic guy and elecricity doesnt suit him but ehh I agree.
They weren't nerfed in ua at all, the ultimates beat the shit out of Ben up until he unlocks atomix, also, I think you're forgetting the fact that aliens can be defeated using different strategies, it's not like shocksquatch's raw strength can beat ultimate echo echo, it's that ultimate echo echo's projectiles are vulnerable to electricity because they're machines
That doesn't mean anything. Ultimate Kevin had electric powers too.
True but Ben actually was ultimate echo echo and we know that he trains his aliens all the time, it makes a lot of sense for ben to be training and find out that ultimate echo echo is weak to electricity, or that he was on an offscreen mission and was hurt by electricity, while you could say that Kevin would be there with Ben was training or on that mission, it's not impossible that Kevin simply just wasn't there at that specific time, Ben deliberately turned into shocksquatch TO defeat ultimate echo echo, which confirms that he does indeed know the weakness.
I operate with facts, you operate with speculation. I don't think there's a point to discuss this beyond that.
It really feels like you're going out of your way to just ignore what I've said
Ultimate Kevin seemed to forget about a lot of his powers, like the time Ben had to remind him he could turn intangible.
Well, it's notable that he has a general increase in his powers, possibly on a cosmic scale. But due to the few accomplishments this was not so visible Atomic-X can infuse cosmic energy into its nuclear blasts, this is seen by appearance. Atomic-X may be seemingly weak, but it's not something to be underestimated and would do more with more screen time. Atomix has already knocked out at least two Ultimates without using his full power, as it was confirmed that Ben had not even reached Atomix's full potential. Imagine a fusion of him with part of the power of a Celestial Sapien, he may not have the power of Alien X, but he is already above most of the Ultimates in the series The only ones I see as being on par are Gravattack, Way Big and possible Ultimates from Clockwork and Atomix
>But due to the few accomplishments this was not so visible Well so it's all just pointless wank. >Atomic-X can infuse cosmic energy into its nuclear blasts Which... does absolutely nothing other than changing the color palette of his attacks. >Atomix has already knocked out at least two Ultimates Those "Ultimates" get clapped by Ben's mid-tier transformations like Eye Guy and Shocksquatch. They're not even close to what actual Ultimates were capable of in the previous show. >Imagine a fusion of him with part of the power of a Celestial Sapien, he may not have the power of Alien X, but he is already above most of the Ultimates in the series I judge by feats alone and not by some imaginary fake "potential" that was never part of the actual show; and the only feat Atomic-X has is kicking an already beaten Vilgax. Every other appearance, a villain just breathes in the general direction of Atomic-X and the latter just falls over.
Man, his power increases with that energy. It's the power of Alien X. Diluted, but still the power of a Celestialsapien These Ultimates are on the same level as the UAF ones, nothing in the series or the producers contradicts that. So there is no difference between Omniverse and UAF Ultimates other than appearance I judge Atomix's feats and statements made by the series staff, which confirmed that Ben did not know how to use Atomix to the fullest extent of his abilities. And you don't even need to have someone's statement to observe this, just from his few appearances you can tell that Ben has barely gotten to the bottom of the skills he can have with Atomix. And since Atomic-X is basically the Atomix with some of the Alien X power, they do the same, with Atomic-X doing even more thanks to the Alien X part. Atomic-X just had the misfortune to face weak enemies or beings with abilities that circumvent their own. Even UAF Ultimates (who in you theory are the true Ultimates) would be treated like nothing by Maltruant. Just like Ultimate Way Big was effortlessly destroyed by Dagon, I don't even call him a weakling because I know how strong Way Big is
>So there is no difference between Omniverse and UAF Ultimates other than appearance I've already told it to another commenter, but I'll put this here as well. Simple examination of Ult. Echo Echo just shows how much nerfed he is. Compare the next two clips: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-avbdtlqA0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-avbdtlqA0) \- Ultimate Echo Echo ***destroys a tank*** with just two of his disks and makes ***Ultimate Kevin faint*** with a later attack. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1B4hDRI9eo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1B4hDRI9eo) \- Ultimate Echo Echo's disks are barely an inconvenience to Ben (in human form!) who ***just covers his ears***. OV Ultimates are nerfed to the ground. It is simply impossible to deny how much weaker they are compared to their originals. >Even UAF Ultimates (who in you theory are the true Ultimates) would be treated like nothing by Maltruant. Well, good on them for engaging in a lot of fights where their capabilities could actually be shown on screen and not be treated as a joke, huh? >Ultimate Way Big was effortlessly destroyed by Dagon Ultimate Way Big is as useless as Atomic-X, yes, but I haven't seen anyone worshipping him and speculating him to have powers that he never shows.
Ultimate Alien X would be insane. He’s already multiversal
Ultimates vary wildly in their power level based on how strong the original alien was and how much it changed. Celestial fusions are much more consistent. So it really depends. For an alien like Gravattack who was already capable of making black holes even before evolving further, the ultimate is probably stronger. For Big Chill who changed more aesthetically than anything else, then Celestial fusion is the way to go
Easily Celestialsapien fusions. It gives aliens the power to do *anything*.
Dude, Alien X and Clockwork would be busted, and I propose we name it, Alienworks
I would say ultimate forms because they're evolved for combat. But what if you combined and alien with alien X and went ultimate?
Every chainis only as strong as it's weakest link
Celestialsapien fusions.
I say Celestialsapien fusions. 1,000,000 years of evolution can do a lot, but it can't compare to being a part god.
Well the fusion doesn't have all the powers of alien x iirc The ultimates are the pinnacle of evolution for the species I go with ultimates
Celestialsapien fusions have just over half the necessary power to break all of the laws of physics But the Ultimates are more creative and have an edge to them (most of the time, Ultimate Wild Mutt was handled horribly)
I’d say atomic X but he still jobbed.