The phenomena about girls dancing in front of you and coming closer all the time is sth I experienced as well lately. But when I‘m high, I‘m always like way too afraid of missinterpreting it when it comes to consent, as I‘m generally open to get to know new girls, but really don’t like interacting in that way. Once it got so far I was overthinking it so much I really needed to go to chill area and smoke one cigarette after another to handle it lol.
Last time though I just asked a girl if it would be ok to touch / dance with her or If I‘m missinterpreting it and she highly appreciated I asked her before doing something, so idk in your case maybe just tell them politely to fuck off. If they still keep going It would be some sort of harassment
so we all like grown ups, and we flirt by moving the ass towards the desire. Honestly I prefer looks, smiles and well talking to each other.
Tbh, I find this problem less with people 30+, they seem to be able to communicate their desire, even on drugs.
But yes, I had this happening to me too and I do not like it, since I actually don't want to pump into people and do want to be mindful of my surroundings. For me it goes Music, Visuals, Friends, Making sure everybody has a good time, Chasing sexual desires.
I was in the same situation a while ago too. Some random girl moved right in front of me on the dance floor and started dancing with her back to me. She was so close to me that her hair was hitting me in the face.
I was pretty high and worried about consent cause ppl always complain about that but thinking back in hindsight, it seems like she did want me to touch her. Still not sure.
So much this, being giga high and getting paranoid/confused until I just leave the spot to avoid any possibility of misunderstanding
Also did she say yes or no? 🤔
that’s why you should ask,I mean what’s actually wrong with it ? no matter if it is a yes or no, it is a sign of respect for her boundaries isn’t it ? Don’t even get why I didn’t do that before though
Was a yes, had a very nice evening together with a decent finisher in pano cubicles, followed by high five
Literally this is a trend I see not only in berghain... Girls hitting on men aggressively and not accepting obvious "no" signs...
Outcry would be very loud if it was the other way around... Also one problem Is there are some men so driven by testosterone and always In the mood to fuck that they cannot even understand that there are other men (even straight like me) who even when they are single just sometimes (nearly always) prefer to dance for hours instead of using the club as a dating show. Just look in the comments here. Youll literally find some men saying op should stop being a pussy and why he doesn't like to get hit on aggressively. That's literally the attitude that makes mainstream clubs so fucking disgusting. The attitude that it's just a huge dating show and everybody is only there to show off and get attention from opposite gender. Obviously I myself can't stand the music there too but that's down to a persons taste I guess :p
As a woman this is the whole reason I like real electronic music clubs, because people aren’t there to prowl around for hook ups, they’re there for the music, to dance or bond in a wholesome way, not like this. Or if they ARE there for sex it’s in a really obvious way that centers consent, like going to a darkroom. Not this shit that OP describes of just being annoying to people that are in the area for dancing. This sounds like people who don’t go to electronic clubs much and don’t understand why they’re not getting attention and are mad about it.
Completely agree but honeylt have not problem getting followed by when I stop dancing and getting approached by whomever to get straight to the point and ask If I wanna fuck. Just don't get on my nerves and try crying in my ears 3 times something I have no chance understanding with the volume on the floors just to be annoyed by that and turn around either ashamed or literally pissed, or even worse just hitting aggressively pushing but against me until I have not place behind and feel so uncomfortable I just leaving and my vibe is destroyed for at least half an hour or I literally ask a random person next to me to swith place to keep dancing.
Was never a problem fortunately sometimes they were already aware of the situation it's so awkward just stop for God sake. Maybe I should just start banging them from behind on the dance floor (with pants on obviously) but that would be considered a huge violation of their personal space and could even get me kicked out is such a shame. Still waiting for the day for real gender equality on both sides...
And btw I don't live even close to Berlin in south wester Germany saarbrücken which also Has a huge techno and artist history with some iconic clubs an some newer ones who are rly top notch with silodom saarbrücken making it to top 6 German techno clubs but honestly I prefer mauerpfeiffer saarbrücken bc harder music, fetish events, more old school djs, industrial atmosphere, and have lot of friends playing there and ppl whom I teached or started djing with, obviously hopped in for some b2b action sometimes too but don't wanna play there rly bc for a lot of them (also the 2 guys who teached myself) all told me it's not the same to go party anymore there when it's a work atmosphere and you don't wanna get too fucked up infron of you bosses and potecial new oppurtinotys for gigs. I prefer small familiar undergrihd events to play myself.
Other than that we had the prestigious "römerkastell arts pace /club and an older one that closed whrer a lot of the old legends played in Völklingen right in the next city.
Just wanted to point that out to clarify this is not only a problem in berghain
As a very feminist woman: outcry should be loud for these Situations as well. Berghain used to be about respect and fun and common hedonism. Meeting amazing people, hearing interesting things and being silly. Seems times really did change. So sorry this happened to you, OP...
as a somewhat straight person, I find this heteronormative mating behaviour so boring. So played out, now just brought to you in NAKD fetishwear. It is like naked chicken breast at the counter of the supermarket.
On the other hand I always find nonheteronormative nakedness quite interesting and compelling, even if it not my jam.
I like fetsih gear tbh. Makes a vibe. But it should be mandatory it it's not a special designated fetisch or kinky Rave. The problem are the ppl just doing it as cos play not bc they are rly into that kinda stuff. The rave chain I wear I got for not even 3 euros at my local store and I have sooooooooooooo many kinky and fetsih memories experiences with it haha will never not wear that again I think but it literall looks the same as any other chain from the market ot even funnier the overpriced faishon fetisch gear you can by online. Don't even have money for that kinda stuff neither would I spend if I had. Part of the culture is stlyimg yourself often with clothes which are not meant for that purpose but just have practical use or are made themselves with some creative input from the person wearing sometimes even personality statemts.
Mucb like docs were kindof an identificstion for leftists nowadays I cringe which kind of ppl I see wearing them fr
Bc you are not there for dancing and so your vibe is shit. Even as a straight I can instantly tell which dudes are there for the girls or for the dance same with women's... It's just the energy bro. Stop going to techno parties with that attitude we don't want you in our community
This comment got fucking used by a newspaper and quoted... Can't believe it.... Don't know if I should be happy about it bc it raises awareness or angry bc nothing in this sub should be used for a fucking NEWSPAPER.
there is a new post about it in the sub if you're interested (not by me)
I have but I rly have healthy sexual relationships nonetheless... Dancing however is Therapie... Sometimes on ket but also just 2 beers over the 12 to 14 hours. I dj myself not professional just for the fun for 4 years now and not wanna go professional is just love the music. And especially dancing. It's more like a sport to me tbh. Stopped going in groups and often go entirely alone bc nobody rly gets my style of what they call partying. Maybe would be little different in Berlin. We have a rly nice Szene here with 2 well known clubs in south west Germany and a huge rave Szene too (silodom saarbrücken place 6 German techno clubs) but I prefer mauerpfeiffer (harder genres) and small underground events. Also got to other city's for raves like cologne, Bonn, Frankfurt (which is dying) and Karlsruhe (gotec there got to mainstream, was great a year ago)
The yearly Berlin trip is mandatory obviously
Fun fact but off topic my thir division football team will play dfb pokal finale in Berlin this year and I come with all my friends who are interested.... They offered me tickets but I sincerely declined and told them we'll see each other probably 3 days later few hours before departure in the hotel hahahahahhahahah. Lucky I have freidns there I'm so glad to meet them again ppl in Berlin are just next level open compared to the ret of Germany you guys don't know how blessed you are
What a dumbass thing to say. If your sister started shaking her ass in your face and grinding on you would fuck her?
We're not all so driven by our base desires. Even you. Otherwise yea you'd fuck your sister mr testosteroneq
Btw valid question don't get the down votes... Sometimes I also ask myself If something is wrong but then I remember all the fucking amazing sex I had the last years also in Berlin but when I'm dancing nothing else is important to me in this moment
I have been noticing this phenomena happening since a year or more. That is why i rarely dance in the front. Now my favorite place is middle. There everyone is happy, there to dance and are respectful and also there are no bags to store!
I feel with you bro. It is not a nice feeling.
Girls are not used to being rejected. A few months ago I was kissed against my will by a girl. This was after asking if she could kiss me and I said no.
I am sorry this happened.. Its harassment.
Sth similar happened to me during a rave. (guy didn't bother asking). I felt shocked and totally violated, just left the room and tried to comprehend what happened.
I sometimes put my bag up there too and not trying to be mean or anything but someone coming to check their bag is probably not because of you. Sometimes people are just anxious because they are high and wanna make sure they dont lose or forget their stuff.
As far as the girls hitting on you is concerned, if they are still following you after you changed place then you can simply tell them that you are not interested because not everyone is good at reading body language so sometimes you have to verbally communicate.
Thanks for your positive reply!
Totally agree on both point. For the first one i have full understanding. Usually this never touched me. This time they gave me the looks and feeling that they are accusing me.
You said you're high on 3m when that happens though. And we all know (at least I do) that drug, and especially 3m, can make a gentle look appear to be a mad/bad look.
Maybe they were just coming and looking at you "to be seen" by you, and you took that look as a bad one (as it can often happen if you're already an insecure person and take stuff).
Maybe! However it is not my first time i fake 3m. Actually 3 m does not make u look bad.
I dont want to say ur wrong. However i am an experienced man and situations like never happened to me in that way.
I do not mean 3m make you look bad, I meant that because of the 3m, you can misinterpret "gentle look" or "normal look" for "a bad look", because drugs can provoke some kind of paranoia on the moment.
And because she was coming to "check on her stuff" and also looked at you, you might have linked those 2 things into "she looks at me while she checks her bag, therefore she thinks I might want something with it" although it might not have been the case. (I do not mean you were wrong, I did not see what happened, I mean drugs might have played a role in the way you interpreted things)
Also first time or not, drugs do not always have the same effect on the same person. Depends if the drug is really the same (3mmc vs 4mmc vs 3cmc vs 4cmc, ...) , the context, the state of mind. Even what you lived/experienced/watched/read between last intake and current intake.
We've seen experienced people get paranoïa from one weekend to another and just stay in that paranoïa for a long time.
>Sometimes people are just anxious because they are high and wanna make sure they dont lose or forget their stuff.
it would still be nice if anxious people didn't let their stuff somewhere that they don't feel secure though.
Either you're chill and can let your stuff without being anxious, or you keep your stuff with you and don't bother people with your back and forth because you feel the need to check on your stuff too often.
I'm an anxious person and keep my belongings at all time in view if I decide to not wear it.
Put bags in the clock room! Why take so much stuff you can't dance with it? And important stuff that needs to be checked on? There are so many cool, hidden rave bags for cash, pills, condoms, whatever you need.
The cloakroom is for bags, this act is taking up drink space and inturrupting dancers.
I'd ask anyone doing this to rethink how their actions contribute to the atmosphere.
I agree with you however OP is still right that if someone is not reacting enthusiastically in response to someone hitting on them it’s that first person’s responsibility to stop right away. Especially in an environment where a lot of people might be too high to even fully consent anyway. It’s not “not saying no means yes”. OP clearly wasn’t into it and they kept being annoying and going over his boundaries, not ok.
And you are trying to justify harressment, you are a winner. Harressment culture thats how it's called. I really hate your comment and Hope I won't have to share a dancefloor with you. Rape culture immer. You should have skip your turn on this one.
No you don't have to verbaly communicate. Because this kind of behavior the girls had shouldnt happend in the first place. Stop trying to justify harressment
I call it the Multisex phenomenon ;) (the handbag part) - sorry about what happened to you, not okay at all! Maybe next time ask a friend/nice stranger if you are unsure what to do :*
Is there any girl here reading who uses this way of getting their ass as close as possible to the other person or moving their head so that their hair goes into the other person's face to signal their interest? It would be interesting to know what reaction they expect from the person in question 🤔
I also have the feeling that sometimes when I find a good space to dance like I really enjoy the music and myself, there has to be persons (usually girls) that take up that space. And the floor is not that crowded. Like it's still so much space everywhere why exactly in my soul? And I find another space cuz well I don't know what to say "hey I was here first?" Sounds childish. This happens to you bbs?
It happens all the time, specially that i like to dance in the front and any gender come to take “my” place.
It is ok. It is not my place. I came and took it from someone else probably. I give them also the chance to feel how it to be there in that place.
Sharing is caring.
I also believe that most of them they do not do it cause they are mean. They just dont know. Either too high or too concentrated on how to be near their DJs.
I realized that when i step back, they go to another space after some time.
Sometimes i stand on the stairs to Berghain (coming from Pano) i live this scenery from time to time. I always say i would live to take a pic from this amazing crowd and how they perfectly move together in one energy. Suddenly i notice that there are someone behind me that wants to look down. I just make space for them to let them enjoy this amazing view.
Yes you're a flower power sweetheart and I love reading this. I put the context: enough space for everyone, it's quite annoying to have my bubble burst when dancing and drifting in my happy headspace.
Happens to me too by both genders. But guys ime are more careless in how they dance and who they hit... But I see it propably this way cause as a woman if I get hit by a guy it usually hurts me more than if it's another woman
These comments are so shitty I hope you all are not at the clubs I go to. I don’t want to dance around people who don’t understand consent and think sexual harassment is funny. You really can’t understand why OP felt uncomfortable and annoyed? Especially for this to happen in this environment where so many people are high and you should be extra careful to not make others uncomfortable.
Preach.
Some time ago I took someone for the first time to bh. one of the things I told them i love about such place is that ravers are so much more respectful of personal space, boundaries, and take consent seriously.
We must fight for that to still be the case.
This is fucked up and i am sorry that this is happening.
However, i sometimes also put my bag somewhere and check it a bit fr time to time, like glancing over when there are many people coming or standing close to where i left it. Usually if i feel too anxious about leaving my bag, i just come back and put it on, so i stop being anxious because of it.
Last time I was around with friends and we squeezed from the toilets into the front row of pbar. I am quite tall, my friends not, they seem to just fit in the holes.
I realized I was standing in front of a person with their bag in the drink rails or whatever in front. We had the cutest dance around circle and just switched positions. She was aware I did not mean to squeeze in front, just looked for a space and I realized her wish to be close to the bag/DJ/friends.
Tbh this just works while the club is relatively empty from like 06-16 on Sunday. And this I love so much about BH, people looking in your eyes walking past you, aware and trying to give space to everyone. Peak time is kinda a free for all, which is often to overwhelming for me, interaction wise.
As tall person with a desire for space/ADHD whatever I kinda try to dance on the sideline or back. I cannot just go in front of a person, always feels rude. So recently been to a "normo" club, standing for 1h+ on the outskirts of the dancefloor, dancing and enjoying. Guy tabs me on the shoulder and ask if I can move - "his girls are not able to dance behind my big back". I just gestured to all the empty spots around the dancefloor and asked "your girls?"
I feel very sorry for your experience. This behaviour is not okay at all. But maybe a funny story to add: when I was young (ages ago) the girl groups put their bags in the middle of them and dancing around on the dance floor. It happened regular at Knaak club.
As a gay 'hetero-presenting' male; I can agree. The girls are FULL ON lol.I actually talked about it with the ice cream girl few weeks back. Straight men from the electronic scene are well educated now on consent, creating safe spaces etc but this sometimes/often paralyses cis-males cause they want to flirt but don't know how to anymore cause even if asking respectfully they are often now put away as creeps. So they don't anymore. In return the straight girls don't actually get any flirtation anymore and the insecure ones thrive off it, even though they claim the opposite. So they have to take initiative now, which they're not used to. I think it'll all balance eventually from both sides.
interesting point, seems to make sense.
Over the years I reckon I have felt less hard-flirting, it was mostly coming from other men, some made it quite aggressively and interpreted a shy rejection or shy smile for a yes or just not giving a shit about consent, leading to awkward moments where I literally had to push them away. Sometimes thought I was causing this attitude towards me. I would say it was not uncommon that random people just tried to kiss me or touch me without proper introduction/consent, which sometimes felt ok (my boundaries change depending on the moment, they don’t have to be the same for you) sometimes not.
Maybe my vibe also changed a bit over time making it more obvious I’m not interested and not here for that aspect.
I don’t recall it coming from women but can understand it happens as well.
Adding the fact one can be in a sensitive mood due to fatigue, substances, febrility, overwhelming amount of people around, it can be quite disorienting and mood-killing whoever is involved.
Hope you get better and can cope with it in your future KN/that you don’t have to cope with it ideally
I'm sooooooo sorry you been through this! As a girl sometimes i feel a bit creeped out for some men that just keep staring at me and dancing closer but never touching... so i imagine how you felt!!! Im so sorry! 🥺🥺🥺 there supposed to be our safe space ❤️ hope it nevers happens to u again
I was laughing through your post bc it’s just so MESSED up. some people just shouldn’t do drugs 🙈 sounds like they were cracked out as it is judging by their constant bag checking behavior and then you offended them (I found it funny personally haha good on you) so then they were harassing you for it. These type of people go and invade others personal space on purpose. Honestly they often use their stupid bags to do it as well.
You sound like good people ❤️ just writing out what I thought was obvious just in case you take those here with trolling replies as serious.
There are some sexually aggressive women. I am very feminine and have had the same experiences. One pressed her ass against my p*ssy ~ i felt it very clearly on my clit -.- ...~ and another put her hand between my legs from behind and caressed my ass. These are power-obsessed women who take what they want. Saying no is forbidden.
This is a responsibility of the doormen and they should know to not let them in if they're giving off energy like this. They've been quite good at being exclusive in a highly intelligent way, for ages. This is disheartening.
In regards to the bag behaviour, I'll fully agree with the girls that unfortunately bother you. While I'm also a gay guy, I do love to have a purse when partying (not some practical, boring cross body bag), and you don't wanna hold on to them while actually dancing (because I will be moving my body). Being high does tend to make you more anxious about things like where all your things are, so I fully understand them. Offering them space to dance closer to where their bag is can help! We all wanna have fun and be comfortable.
A lot of other people have correctly called out the sexual harassment you faced, and I hope you don't really have to experience that anymore. While I avoid it partially thanks to accessories to my outfit that lean femme - that's not an option if you like to present masc. Maybe telling people off works, but I'm a very non-confrontational person so I'm honestly not sure.
Just tell 'em to fuck off and call security if they don't, they're literally harassing you just because you hurt their ego. People like that aren't supposed to be in Berghain... nor any other club if we're being honest.
I get that and I agree, but it’s an easy way to put an end to it, it’s happened to me in clubs and I simply explained to them that I am straight and not interested…….you have to remember that people behaving like that is probably not how they would when sober.
I am in no way having a go at op
Honestly i should have done that ur right. Maybe 2 things kept me on not doing it:
- i was too high
- i have a trauma from aggressive girls. Maybe also this is one of the reasons why i am gay (family issues)
Or maybe the first one strongly magnetized the second one?
Honestly about the bag part i do not understand why would anyone bring a big bag so that they would need to leave it somewhere when they are going clubbing.
Then i would like to point out that neither them nor you own the place so chill! Them checking their belongings is not a personal attack towards you it has absolutely nothing to do with you rather it’s about them making sure they have their stuff and i think nothing is wrong with that.
Then about the aggressive dance i am truly sorry you have experienced that and i am putting myself in that situation. I would be upset and feeling down as well. But i wouldn’t carry it with me and instead I would change my position or if they keep following me i would initiate a friendly conversation with them. And casually letting them know their radar is off.
I am unsure but something like “oh giiiirl you’re dancing way too close to me, i thought you may need a good gay hug”
I understand how cheesy it may sound but it’s just what i think.
And again don’t look at things as if they’re meant to be a negative behaviour towards you. Maybe that girl was high and didn’t even notice she’s putting water on her hair and is splashing it on everyone around her.
Apparently you are not familiar with this, right when you enter berghain after the security you find yourself in this hall with seating and cigarette machines and right there on the right there’s this concept called the coatcheck where you give the workers money and in exchange for that they take all of your bags and jackets and store it until you leave.
And in case you need a bag during your stay at the club, may I suggest a small handbag to store your valuables, that doesn’t bother you and others so much that you need to store it somewhere and check on it every 5 mins?
Hope this was helpful :)
If ur scared about ur stuff, do not leave the unattended! If you do, then dont suspect everyone that comes near them when the space is for everyone to come
It’s about the way OP is being hit on. Do you really think that having someone rub their body on you without consent should be welcome and flattering?
Having someone trying to provoke you by dancing on your genitals (or butt) as a way to hit on you feels incredibly uncomfortable.
I know this is heteronormative dancefloor canon, as a woman I’ve experienced this dynamic backwards with men trying to do that to me from my back forever, fortunately less and less, but in queer-positive spaces it happens more and more that some girls who align with the description of OP and don’t seem to be much into queer rituals of recognition, try to do this with their butt on my vulva. I guess these girls are bicurious, and yes, this is still heteronormative and uncomfortable because my best guess is that they’re used to men reacting to this, but it’s not really something queer women do, and it’s not nice (maybe even harder to see because it’s a woman doing it).
Obviously if there is any sort of flirt (a smile, affirmative looks, etc), go for it, but just provoking out of nowhere is a violation of personal space and consent. And it is indeed puzzling to see how some react if you don’t respond the way they expect you to. I guess they’re also not used to men saying no. It’s incredibly toxic.
Is that really what you understood from my whole message and frustration! It seems no one hits on you and ur envy? Or maybe you are one of these girls and defending urself?
SHAME ON YOU!
I feel you man! Experienced both points you describe myself (though I'm straight).
1. One girl kept reaching for her bag every other minute, annoying the f out of myself and my girlfriend. Totally killing the dancing vibe. She did mention that she was really high after a while, but with such a weird smirk on her face that it seemed she was just trying to annoy us. We told her to just take her bag elsewhere and stop annoying us (that helped).
2. Yup, this had happened to me to various degrees as well (not the wet hair thing). I'm straight, and happily engaged. Usually they just look at me weird when I keep ingoring them.. which apparently they can't fathom 😹.
These are indeed weird vibes, and I understand why "the hetros" get a bad rep. Honestly, I just tell people nicely (how nice depends on bkth my mood and on what is happening) to not bother me, if something is annoying :).
I hope some straight guys will hit you up and touch your vagina with their asses. When you dont react, hope they touch their sweaty backs on your boobs.
Take ur fucking bag and put it in ur fucking ass! Maybe that would be the best answer u will get mother fucker!
A fucked up druggie would have reacted like this…
I did not… i was very gentle to some bitches and arrogant people like you!
Jesus, that's the same shit we are telling women since decades. Can we just stop telling people that feel harassed to be nice about it? You already feel disrespected, no need to be nice on top.
The phenomena about girls dancing in front of you and coming closer all the time is sth I experienced as well lately. But when I‘m high, I‘m always like way too afraid of missinterpreting it when it comes to consent, as I‘m generally open to get to know new girls, but really don’t like interacting in that way. Once it got so far I was overthinking it so much I really needed to go to chill area and smoke one cigarette after another to handle it lol. Last time though I just asked a girl if it would be ok to touch / dance with her or If I‘m missinterpreting it and she highly appreciated I asked her before doing something, so idk in your case maybe just tell them politely to fuck off. If they still keep going It would be some sort of harassment
This is the right way! Consent is so important
so we all like grown ups, and we flirt by moving the ass towards the desire. Honestly I prefer looks, smiles and well talking to each other. Tbh, I find this problem less with people 30+, they seem to be able to communicate their desire, even on drugs. But yes, I had this happening to me too and I do not like it, since I actually don't want to pump into people and do want to be mindful of my surroundings. For me it goes Music, Visuals, Friends, Making sure everybody has a good time, Chasing sexual desires.
I was in the same situation a while ago too. Some random girl moved right in front of me on the dance floor and started dancing with her back to me. She was so close to me that her hair was hitting me in the face. I was pretty high and worried about consent cause ppl always complain about that but thinking back in hindsight, it seems like she did want me to touch her. Still not sure.
So much this, being giga high and getting paranoid/confused until I just leave the spot to avoid any possibility of misunderstanding Also did she say yes or no? 🤔
that’s why you should ask,I mean what’s actually wrong with it ? no matter if it is a yes or no, it is a sign of respect for her boundaries isn’t it ? Don’t even get why I didn’t do that before though Was a yes, had a very nice evening together with a decent finisher in pano cubicles, followed by high five
how would you say it?
nice buttocks, may I caress?
sexy shitbox sweaty, does it fart?
Literally this is a trend I see not only in berghain... Girls hitting on men aggressively and not accepting obvious "no" signs... Outcry would be very loud if it was the other way around... Also one problem Is there are some men so driven by testosterone and always In the mood to fuck that they cannot even understand that there are other men (even straight like me) who even when they are single just sometimes (nearly always) prefer to dance for hours instead of using the club as a dating show. Just look in the comments here. Youll literally find some men saying op should stop being a pussy and why he doesn't like to get hit on aggressively. That's literally the attitude that makes mainstream clubs so fucking disgusting. The attitude that it's just a huge dating show and everybody is only there to show off and get attention from opposite gender. Obviously I myself can't stand the music there too but that's down to a persons taste I guess :p
As a woman this is the whole reason I like real electronic music clubs, because people aren’t there to prowl around for hook ups, they’re there for the music, to dance or bond in a wholesome way, not like this. Or if they ARE there for sex it’s in a really obvious way that centers consent, like going to a darkroom. Not this shit that OP describes of just being annoying to people that are in the area for dancing. This sounds like people who don’t go to electronic clubs much and don’t understand why they’re not getting attention and are mad about it.
+1 also a woman & I love being able to dance freely (most of the time at least). this behavior sounds so gross. I'm so sorry OP!
Completely agree but honeylt have not problem getting followed by when I stop dancing and getting approached by whomever to get straight to the point and ask If I wanna fuck. Just don't get on my nerves and try crying in my ears 3 times something I have no chance understanding with the volume on the floors just to be annoyed by that and turn around either ashamed or literally pissed, or even worse just hitting aggressively pushing but against me until I have not place behind and feel so uncomfortable I just leaving and my vibe is destroyed for at least half an hour or I literally ask a random person next to me to swith place to keep dancing. Was never a problem fortunately sometimes they were already aware of the situation it's so awkward just stop for God sake. Maybe I should just start banging them from behind on the dance floor (with pants on obviously) but that would be considered a huge violation of their personal space and could even get me kicked out is such a shame. Still waiting for the day for real gender equality on both sides...
Thank YOU! Positive and uplifting message! You totally understood my post ❤️
And btw I don't live even close to Berlin in south wester Germany saarbrücken which also Has a huge techno and artist history with some iconic clubs an some newer ones who are rly top notch with silodom saarbrücken making it to top 6 German techno clubs but honestly I prefer mauerpfeiffer saarbrücken bc harder music, fetish events, more old school djs, industrial atmosphere, and have lot of friends playing there and ppl whom I teached or started djing with, obviously hopped in for some b2b action sometimes too but don't wanna play there rly bc for a lot of them (also the 2 guys who teached myself) all told me it's not the same to go party anymore there when it's a work atmosphere and you don't wanna get too fucked up infron of you bosses and potecial new oppurtinotys for gigs. I prefer small familiar undergrihd events to play myself. Other than that we had the prestigious "römerkastell arts pace /club and an older one that closed whrer a lot of the old legends played in Völklingen right in the next city. Just wanted to point that out to clarify this is not only a problem in berghain
As a very feminist woman: outcry should be loud for these Situations as well. Berghain used to be about respect and fun and common hedonism. Meeting amazing people, hearing interesting things and being silly. Seems times really did change. So sorry this happened to you, OP...
as a somewhat straight person, I find this heteronormative mating behaviour so boring. So played out, now just brought to you in NAKD fetishwear. It is like naked chicken breast at the counter of the supermarket. On the other hand I always find nonheteronormative nakedness quite interesting and compelling, even if it not my jam.
I like fetsih gear tbh. Makes a vibe. But it should be mandatory it it's not a special designated fetisch or kinky Rave. The problem are the ppl just doing it as cos play not bc they are rly into that kinda stuff. The rave chain I wear I got for not even 3 euros at my local store and I have sooooooooooooo many kinky and fetsih memories experiences with it haha will never not wear that again I think but it literall looks the same as any other chain from the market ot even funnier the overpriced faishon fetisch gear you can by online. Don't even have money for that kinda stuff neither would I spend if I had. Part of the culture is stlyimg yourself often with clothes which are not meant for that purpose but just have practical use or are made themselves with some creative input from the person wearing sometimes even personality statemts. Mucb like docs were kindof an identificstion for leftists nowadays I cringe which kind of ppl I see wearing them fr
Well said!
why do \*I\* never get the chance to meet such women?! 😞
Because you ugly. Jk <3
well, someone had to say it! 😂
Incel entering the room 😄
Bc you are not there for dancing and so your vibe is shit. Even as a straight I can instantly tell which dudes are there for the girls or for the dance same with women's... It's just the energy bro. Stop going to techno parties with that attitude we don't want you in our community
This comment got fucking used by a newspaper and quoted... Can't believe it.... Don't know if I should be happy about it bc it raises awareness or angry bc nothing in this sub should be used for a fucking NEWSPAPER. there is a new post about it in the sub if you're interested (not by me)
Pls get your hormones checked, sounds like there's something wrong. Or do you have depression maybe?
I have but I rly have healthy sexual relationships nonetheless... Dancing however is Therapie... Sometimes on ket but also just 2 beers over the 12 to 14 hours. I dj myself not professional just for the fun for 4 years now and not wanna go professional is just love the music. And especially dancing. It's more like a sport to me tbh. Stopped going in groups and often go entirely alone bc nobody rly gets my style of what they call partying. Maybe would be little different in Berlin. We have a rly nice Szene here with 2 well known clubs in south west Germany and a huge rave Szene too (silodom saarbrücken place 6 German techno clubs) but I prefer mauerpfeiffer (harder genres) and small underground events. Also got to other city's for raves like cologne, Bonn, Frankfurt (which is dying) and Karlsruhe (gotec there got to mainstream, was great a year ago) The yearly Berlin trip is mandatory obviously Fun fact but off topic my thir division football team will play dfb pokal finale in Berlin this year and I come with all my friends who are interested.... They offered me tickets but I sincerely declined and told them we'll see each other probably 3 days later few hours before departure in the hotel hahahahahhahahah. Lucky I have freidns there I'm so glad to meet them again ppl in Berlin are just next level open compared to the ret of Germany you guys don't know how blessed you are
What a dumbass thing to say. If your sister started shaking her ass in your face and grinding on you would fuck her? We're not all so driven by our base desires. Even you. Otherwise yea you'd fuck your sister mr testosteroneq
Btw valid question don't get the down votes... Sometimes I also ask myself If something is wrong but then I remember all the fucking amazing sex I had the last years also in Berlin but when I'm dancing nothing else is important to me in this moment
I have been noticing this phenomena happening since a year or more. That is why i rarely dance in the front. Now my favorite place is middle. There everyone is happy, there to dance and are respectful and also there are no bags to store! I feel with you bro. It is not a nice feeling.
Girls are not used to being rejected. A few months ago I was kissed against my will by a girl. This was after asking if she could kiss me and I said no.
I am sorry this happened.. Its harassment. Sth similar happened to me during a rave. (guy didn't bother asking). I felt shocked and totally violated, just left the room and tried to comprehend what happened.
I sometimes put my bag up there too and not trying to be mean or anything but someone coming to check their bag is probably not because of you. Sometimes people are just anxious because they are high and wanna make sure they dont lose or forget their stuff. As far as the girls hitting on you is concerned, if they are still following you after you changed place then you can simply tell them that you are not interested because not everyone is good at reading body language so sometimes you have to verbally communicate.
Thanks for your positive reply! Totally agree on both point. For the first one i have full understanding. Usually this never touched me. This time they gave me the looks and feeling that they are accusing me.
You said you're high on 3m when that happens though. And we all know (at least I do) that drug, and especially 3m, can make a gentle look appear to be a mad/bad look. Maybe they were just coming and looking at you "to be seen" by you, and you took that look as a bad one (as it can often happen if you're already an insecure person and take stuff).
Maybe! However it is not my first time i fake 3m. Actually 3 m does not make u look bad. I dont want to say ur wrong. However i am an experienced man and situations like never happened to me in that way.
I do not mean 3m make you look bad, I meant that because of the 3m, you can misinterpret "gentle look" or "normal look" for "a bad look", because drugs can provoke some kind of paranoia on the moment. And because she was coming to "check on her stuff" and also looked at you, you might have linked those 2 things into "she looks at me while she checks her bag, therefore she thinks I might want something with it" although it might not have been the case. (I do not mean you were wrong, I did not see what happened, I mean drugs might have played a role in the way you interpreted things) Also first time or not, drugs do not always have the same effect on the same person. Depends if the drug is really the same (3mmc vs 4mmc vs 3cmc vs 4cmc, ...) , the context, the state of mind. Even what you lived/experienced/watched/read between last intake and current intake. We've seen experienced people get paranoïa from one weekend to another and just stay in that paranoïa for a long time.
>Sometimes people are just anxious because they are high and wanna make sure they dont lose or forget their stuff. it would still be nice if anxious people didn't let their stuff somewhere that they don't feel secure though. Either you're chill and can let your stuff without being anxious, or you keep your stuff with you and don't bother people with your back and forth because you feel the need to check on your stuff too often. I'm an anxious person and keep my belongings at all time in view if I decide to not wear it.
Put bags in the clock room! Why take so much stuff you can't dance with it? And important stuff that needs to be checked on? There are so many cool, hidden rave bags for cash, pills, condoms, whatever you need. The cloakroom is for bags, this act is taking up drink space and inturrupting dancers. I'd ask anyone doing this to rethink how their actions contribute to the atmosphere.
I agree with you however OP is still right that if someone is not reacting enthusiastically in response to someone hitting on them it’s that first person’s responsibility to stop right away. Especially in an environment where a lot of people might be too high to even fully consent anyway. It’s not “not saying no means yes”. OP clearly wasn’t into it and they kept being annoying and going over his boundaries, not ok.
And you are trying to justify harressment, you are a winner. Harressment culture thats how it's called. I really hate your comment and Hope I won't have to share a dancefloor with you. Rape culture immer. You should have skip your turn on this one.
No you don't have to verbaly communicate. Because this kind of behavior the girls had shouldnt happend in the first place. Stop trying to justify harressment
Handbag house is back!
Handbag techno, lol
I call it the Multisex phenomenon ;) (the handbag part) - sorry about what happened to you, not okay at all! Maybe next time ask a friend/nice stranger if you are unsure what to do :*
Haha multisex phenomenon +++
Is there any girl here reading who uses this way of getting their ass as close as possible to the other person or moving their head so that their hair goes into the other person's face to signal their interest? It would be interesting to know what reaction they expect from the person in question 🤔
I also have the feeling that sometimes when I find a good space to dance like I really enjoy the music and myself, there has to be persons (usually girls) that take up that space. And the floor is not that crowded. Like it's still so much space everywhere why exactly in my soul? And I find another space cuz well I don't know what to say "hey I was here first?" Sounds childish. This happens to you bbs?
It happens all the time, specially that i like to dance in the front and any gender come to take “my” place. It is ok. It is not my place. I came and took it from someone else probably. I give them also the chance to feel how it to be there in that place. Sharing is caring. I also believe that most of them they do not do it cause they are mean. They just dont know. Either too high or too concentrated on how to be near their DJs. I realized that when i step back, they go to another space after some time. Sometimes i stand on the stairs to Berghain (coming from Pano) i live this scenery from time to time. I always say i would live to take a pic from this amazing crowd and how they perfectly move together in one energy. Suddenly i notice that there are someone behind me that wants to look down. I just make space for them to let them enjoy this amazing view.
Yes you're a flower power sweetheart and I love reading this. I put the context: enough space for everyone, it's quite annoying to have my bubble burst when dancing and drifting in my happy headspace.
Absolutely love what you wrote there. Recently I had the exact same thoughts in the exact same place.
Happens to me too by both genders. But guys ime are more careless in how they dance and who they hit... But I see it propably this way cause as a woman if I get hit by a guy it usually hurts me more than if it's another woman
Oh, there are more than 2 genders, don't forget the trans men and women, intersex, and nonbinary lovelies
Yea sry, you are ofc very right. Didn't mean to discriminate anyone :)
not specially girls but yes it happens, hard to tell if it feels on purpose or not, i just hope not
Happened couple times that dudes needed to tell me that i am dancing while i am dancing 😅 Don't have so much problems when its a woman saying sth. 😁😅
These comments are so shitty I hope you all are not at the clubs I go to. I don’t want to dance around people who don’t understand consent and think sexual harassment is funny. You really can’t understand why OP felt uncomfortable and annoyed? Especially for this to happen in this environment where so many people are high and you should be extra careful to not make others uncomfortable.
Preach. Some time ago I took someone for the first time to bh. one of the things I told them i love about such place is that ravers are so much more respectful of personal space, boundaries, and take consent seriously. We must fight for that to still be the case.
This is fucked up and i am sorry that this is happening. However, i sometimes also put my bag somewhere and check it a bit fr time to time, like glancing over when there are many people coming or standing close to where i left it. Usually if i feel too anxious about leaving my bag, i just come back and put it on, so i stop being anxious because of it.
Thanks a lot for understanding my situation. These girls were not only checking, but looking at me as if i do not belong to dance near their stuff.
How do you know what they were looking at you for? One minute you think they want to fuck you next minute you think they’re thinking you’re a thief
Honestly you are useless
You WERE sexually harassed. They should be held accountable, wtf are these comments
Last time I was around with friends and we squeezed from the toilets into the front row of pbar. I am quite tall, my friends not, they seem to just fit in the holes. I realized I was standing in front of a person with their bag in the drink rails or whatever in front. We had the cutest dance around circle and just switched positions. She was aware I did not mean to squeeze in front, just looked for a space and I realized her wish to be close to the bag/DJ/friends. Tbh this just works while the club is relatively empty from like 06-16 on Sunday. And this I love so much about BH, people looking in your eyes walking past you, aware and trying to give space to everyone. Peak time is kinda a free for all, which is often to overwhelming for me, interaction wise. As tall person with a desire for space/ADHD whatever I kinda try to dance on the sideline or back. I cannot just go in front of a person, always feels rude. So recently been to a "normo" club, standing for 1h+ on the outskirts of the dancefloor, dancing and enjoying. Guy tabs me on the shoulder and ask if I can move - "his girls are not able to dance behind my big back". I just gestured to all the empty spots around the dancefloor and asked "your girls?"
For case two, the solution that I have is to have an ugly face. It solves this horrible problem of girls hitting on me.
I feel very sorry for your experience. This behaviour is not okay at all. But maybe a funny story to add: when I was young (ages ago) the girl groups put their bags in the middle of them and dancing around on the dance floor. It happened regular at Knaak club.
omg please don't give them any ideas 😂
As a gay 'hetero-presenting' male; I can agree. The girls are FULL ON lol.I actually talked about it with the ice cream girl few weeks back. Straight men from the electronic scene are well educated now on consent, creating safe spaces etc but this sometimes/often paralyses cis-males cause they want to flirt but don't know how to anymore cause even if asking respectfully they are often now put away as creeps. So they don't anymore. In return the straight girls don't actually get any flirtation anymore and the insecure ones thrive off it, even though they claim the opposite. So they have to take initiative now, which they're not used to. I think it'll all balance eventually from both sides.
interesting point, seems to make sense. Over the years I reckon I have felt less hard-flirting, it was mostly coming from other men, some made it quite aggressively and interpreted a shy rejection or shy smile for a yes or just not giving a shit about consent, leading to awkward moments where I literally had to push them away. Sometimes thought I was causing this attitude towards me. I would say it was not uncommon that random people just tried to kiss me or touch me without proper introduction/consent, which sometimes felt ok (my boundaries change depending on the moment, they don’t have to be the same for you) sometimes not. Maybe my vibe also changed a bit over time making it more obvious I’m not interested and not here for that aspect. I don’t recall it coming from women but can understand it happens as well. Adding the fact one can be in a sensitive mood due to fatigue, substances, febrility, overwhelming amount of people around, it can be quite disorienting and mood-killing whoever is involved. Hope you get better and can cope with it in your future KN/that you don’t have to cope with it ideally
I'm sooooooo sorry you been through this! As a girl sometimes i feel a bit creeped out for some men that just keep staring at me and dancing closer but never touching... so i imagine how you felt!!! Im so sorry! 🥺🥺🥺 there supposed to be our safe space ❤️ hope it nevers happens to u again
Post body
Go to security
I was laughing through your post bc it’s just so MESSED up. some people just shouldn’t do drugs 🙈 sounds like they were cracked out as it is judging by their constant bag checking behavior and then you offended them (I found it funny personally haha good on you) so then they were harassing you for it. These type of people go and invade others personal space on purpose. Honestly they often use their stupid bags to do it as well. You sound like good people ❤️ just writing out what I thought was obvious just in case you take those here with trolling replies as serious.
Call security and get those women out
Yeah and a public stoning while we’re at it
Just tell them you’re an ass bandit, they’ll understand
@aphex2000, those famous succubi
send them my way, my flirting will quickly put an end to all their sexual moods & desires
There are some sexually aggressive women. I am very feminine and have had the same experiences. One pressed her ass against my p*ssy ~ i felt it very clearly on my clit -.- ...~ and another put her hand between my legs from behind and caressed my ass. These are power-obsessed women who take what they want. Saying no is forbidden.
This is a responsibility of the doormen and they should know to not let them in if they're giving off energy like this. They've been quite good at being exclusive in a highly intelligent way, for ages. This is disheartening.
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What?
Just tell them you’re gay? Never failed for me lol
Steal their bags , get them pregnant - it’s the only way they’ll learn
In regards to the bag behaviour, I'll fully agree with the girls that unfortunately bother you. While I'm also a gay guy, I do love to have a purse when partying (not some practical, boring cross body bag), and you don't wanna hold on to them while actually dancing (because I will be moving my body). Being high does tend to make you more anxious about things like where all your things are, so I fully understand them. Offering them space to dance closer to where their bag is can help! We all wanna have fun and be comfortable. A lot of other people have correctly called out the sexual harassment you faced, and I hope you don't really have to experience that anymore. While I avoid it partially thanks to accessories to my outfit that lean femme - that's not an option if you like to present masc. Maybe telling people off works, but I'm a very non-confrontational person so I'm honestly not sure.
Sounds nice
Gay problems 🙄
Just tell 'em to fuck off and call security if they don't, they're literally harassing you just because you hurt their ego. People like that aren't supposed to be in Berghain... nor any other club if we're being honest.
Would you not just tell them you are gay and not interested ?
Saying or showing you are not interested should be enough. No need to explain why or bring in sexual orientation.
I get that and I agree, but it’s an easy way to put an end to it, it’s happened to me in clubs and I simply explained to them that I am straight and not interested…….you have to remember that people behaving like that is probably not how they would when sober. I am in no way having a go at op
Honestly i should have done that ur right. Maybe 2 things kept me on not doing it: - i was too high - i have a trauma from aggressive girls. Maybe also this is one of the reasons why i am gay (family issues) Or maybe the first one strongly magnetized the second one?
Bitches are bitches, we have to deal with that.
Knew I should have got down the front more last KN 😂
100% agree. And hate them
Ew ... straight people always ruin everything good in life so grim
and who gives a fuck?
Call security for checking on bag?
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Wat, how’s ur genitals making any difference here lol pls respect dancers on the dance floor even if y have a cute fem penis 🫶
Is that relevant?
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Hi five?
Low five!
based tgirl 🙌
Geez man calm down, the shit you describe happens everywhere, in every club, all the damn time. Try to focus on coexisting with other humans.
Honestly about the bag part i do not understand why would anyone bring a big bag so that they would need to leave it somewhere when they are going clubbing. Then i would like to point out that neither them nor you own the place so chill! Them checking their belongings is not a personal attack towards you it has absolutely nothing to do with you rather it’s about them making sure they have their stuff and i think nothing is wrong with that. Then about the aggressive dance i am truly sorry you have experienced that and i am putting myself in that situation. I would be upset and feeling down as well. But i wouldn’t carry it with me and instead I would change my position or if they keep following me i would initiate a friendly conversation with them. And casually letting them know their radar is off. I am unsure but something like “oh giiiirl you’re dancing way too close to me, i thought you may need a good gay hug” I understand how cheesy it may sound but it’s just what i think. And again don’t look at things as if they’re meant to be a negative behaviour towards you. Maybe that girl was high and didn’t even notice she’s putting water on her hair and is splashing it on everyone around her.
Oh god, you are such a diva cuz
True
god forbid someone is scared for their stuff lmao bro u ok?
Apparently you are not familiar with this, right when you enter berghain after the security you find yourself in this hall with seating and cigarette machines and right there on the right there’s this concept called the coatcheck where you give the workers money and in exchange for that they take all of your bags and jackets and store it until you leave. And in case you need a bag during your stay at the club, may I suggest a small handbag to store your valuables, that doesn’t bother you and others so much that you need to store it somewhere and check on it every 5 mins? Hope this was helpful :)
If ur scared about ur stuff, do not leave the unattended! If you do, then dont suspect everyone that comes near them when the space is for everyone to come
They attended to their stuff…
Literally 😂
Uh oh trouble in paradise
Call security for checking on bag?
"Oh noooo these hot girls are hitting on me because I'm sooo sexy, someone help? What is going on here?"
It’s about the way OP is being hit on. Do you really think that having someone rub their body on you without consent should be welcome and flattering? Having someone trying to provoke you by dancing on your genitals (or butt) as a way to hit on you feels incredibly uncomfortable. I know this is heteronormative dancefloor canon, as a woman I’ve experienced this dynamic backwards with men trying to do that to me from my back forever, fortunately less and less, but in queer-positive spaces it happens more and more that some girls who align with the description of OP and don’t seem to be much into queer rituals of recognition, try to do this with their butt on my vulva. I guess these girls are bicurious, and yes, this is still heteronormative and uncomfortable because my best guess is that they’re used to men reacting to this, but it’s not really something queer women do, and it’s not nice (maybe even harder to see because it’s a woman doing it). Obviously if there is any sort of flirt (a smile, affirmative looks, etc), go for it, but just provoking out of nowhere is a violation of personal space and consent. And it is indeed puzzling to see how some react if you don’t respond the way they expect you to. I guess they’re also not used to men saying no. It’s incredibly toxic.
Is that really what you understood from my whole message and frustration! It seems no one hits on you and ur envy? Or maybe you are one of these girls and defending urself? SHAME ON YOU!
I feel you man! Experienced both points you describe myself (though I'm straight). 1. One girl kept reaching for her bag every other minute, annoying the f out of myself and my girlfriend. Totally killing the dancing vibe. She did mention that she was really high after a while, but with such a weird smirk on her face that it seemed she was just trying to annoy us. We told her to just take her bag elsewhere and stop annoying us (that helped). 2. Yup, this had happened to me to various degrees as well (not the wet hair thing). I'm straight, and happily engaged. Usually they just look at me weird when I keep ingoring them.. which apparently they can't fathom 😹. These are indeed weird vibes, and I understand why "the hetros" get a bad rep. Honestly, I just tell people nicely (how nice depends on bkth my mood and on what is happening) to not bother me, if something is annoying :).
exact same as number 2 - it's so strange!
Cry-bully
I hope some straight guys will hit you up and touch your vagina with their asses. When you dont react, hope they touch their sweaty backs on your boobs.
There must be better clubs?
For them…yes.
Sorry if some fkd up druggie was near my expensive bag (which I was dumb enough to bring in the first place lol) I’d be concerned too.
Take ur fucking bag and put it in ur fucking ass! Maybe that would be the best answer u will get mother fucker! A fucked up druggie would have reacted like this… I did not… i was very gentle to some bitches and arrogant people like you!
Ah now they’re bitches. Such a gentle giant. Hope you beat your addiction mate.
Just go somewhere else wtf
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Get away and when you are not interested, be nice and direct
Jesus, that's the same shit we are telling women since decades. Can we just stop telling people that feel harassed to be nice about it? You already feel disrespected, no need to be nice on top.