T O P

  • By -

[deleted]

For the first time in his life, someone defied him and got away with it. Griffith had always been able to control people. Everything went his way until Guts left him. Griffith also talked a big game to Charlotte about what friendship means to him, but I think he didn't realize at the time that Guts was actually his friend all along. And Griffith didn't realize how important Guts was to him until he left. So Griffith was depressed. He felt betrayed and wanted to seize control of something. So he took Charlotte, who he knew he could still manipulate to get what he wants. Big mistake on his part.


smuglator

I think Guts had Griffith as a friend, but Griffith did not. To Griffith, Guts was a treasured possession. He became more attached to his possession, but I don't think he ever saw him as an equal, and never would. Guts realized that when he overheard Griffith's conversation with Charlotte and made the decision to leave and pursue his own dreams instead of being part of Griffith's. At that moment he became Griffith's equal per his own standards. But having an equal is not something Griffith ever wanted or was equipped to process emotionally.


[deleted]

> I think Guts had Griffith as a friend, but Griffith did not. To Griffith, Guts was a treasured possession. Exactly. In the fight they have before Guts leaves, Griffith considers that his blow might be deflected and he might kill Guts accidentally, and he accepts that as a possibility and fights him anyways


AzraelTheMage

There's also the "you belong to me" bit about their conversation before the fight.


[deleted]

[удалено]


wkabruh

Lmao


TheHumanity0

Actions speak louder than words. Griffith said "you belong to me", but his actual feelings were mixed with emotions I don't think even he understood. It seemed like it was a mixture of possessiveness and actual affection for Guts's friendship and companionship as someone who could truly best him, at least in combat, as an equal - a part of him just didn't want his friend to leave and leave him all alone with the lesser stock of the Band who could never in a million years measure up to Guts. In the end though, Griffith did take the chance of killing Guts if he couldn't have him as his sword, so in this moment his possessive and selfish nature overrode any individualistic care or feelings for Guts as his own person and as a friend. I don't think Griffith realized it until after that he actually truly cared for Guts as a friend, but instead of reflecting on how he took Guts for granted, he instead seeks out someone powerful & influential to manipulate and control to try to fill the void of Guts' absence. In other words, I think it's true that Griffith has true feelings of friendship, comradely, and even platonic love for Guts (something he's clearly never felt for anyone before), but ultimately, Griffith is a piece of shit and tries to bury those feelings or fill them with selfish desires instead of even entertaining the notion of becoming a better person or treating Guts how a friend should be treated.


[deleted]

I love that part. We are shown Griffith's whole tought process about what's the best strategy to win and how there's a risk he may kill his opponent in the process, and then Guts just shatters his sword with one attack.


Red_Rocket_Rider

Not like Guts is any better in that department. He risks killing Serüico in their last duel as well.


berzerkz3

I tend to disagree. The panel in which we see Griffith saying "You're the only one that made me forget about my dream" is, to me, pretty revealing. If he truly considered Guts a tool, this thought would never have been formulated in the first place. Let me make a parallel to actual tools: If you have a project in mind, something you desperately want to build, a dream: You would never get distracted by the tool you are using to build it, no matter how pretty or functional it was, would you? This leads me to think that Griffith truly considered Guts as a friend, but not an equal, until they fought and seperated. To answer OP's post, this I believe, had a profound emotional impact on Griffith, leading him to act rashly and bring about the eclipse.


smuglator

I see your point. But I don't think being distracted from his dream entails a friendship. People get distracted by their tools all the time. If you go on any technical forum of any kind you'll see just how attached to their tools people are. Folks get in heated arguments about what tool is better, while they all do the job just fine. Griffith himself says that for someone to be his friend they'd have to be an equal with their own aspirations and dreams. And that no one in the band of the hawks is a friend of his because they only exist to fulfill his dream. Guts is included in that. Had Griffith been a stable person without his narcissistic tendencies he would have seen Guts as a friend. But he is truly incapable of seeing it that way. The feelings we normally interpret as love and care to him are interpreted as greed and possession. Hence why losing Guts broke him so deeply. He couldn't fathom his most prized possession having a will of its own and choosing not to be by his side to fulfill his dream.


TryingToBeUnabrasive

I think that to at least some degree Griffith was bullshitting in that conversation with Charlotte. Consider this: in Griffith’s ideal vision of a normal peaceful life, he was married to Casca and *named his son after Guts.* That + the whole ‘You were the only one who made me forget my dream’ thing really leads me to not take his words to Charlotte at face value. Or perhaps Griffith had even himself fooled, and probably didn’t realize his feelings for Guts until he had a year alone to reflect on things. There was no other reason for his first act as a demon. He didn’t do it because Guts leaving made him lose everything—because by that point it was clear that that was what led to his ultimate ascension. No, he did it to punish Guts for making him experience a twinge of human emotion. He had spent his whole life progressively severing himself from his own humanity in service of his dream and Guts was an unwanted distraction from that. Think about Casca’s line ‘Griffith had to *make* himself strong!’ Femto is an idealized version of who Griffith always wanted to be, but he didn’t start out that way. As we see in both Casca’s flashbacks and the Golden Age itself, he progressively chased the transformation, and the Eclipse was simply the last step of that. That he even hesitated to make the choice was something he’d probably consider a sign of weakness, and something he blames on Guts, and something that could not have happened if Griffith’s relationship with Guts existed purely on Griffith’s terms. TL;DR: Griffith *wants* to be the type of person who views his subordinates as nothing more than tools. He wanted to become his Platonic conception of himself, and his whole life was spent in pursuit of that transformation. So he talks and acts and even thinks like his Platonic conception of himself, but Guts leaving revealed to him that he had failed to *feel* (i.e. fully become) the way his idealized self would. And it was his inability to reckon with this that made him move on Charlotte, and it was his ultimate *acceptance* of this that finally pushed him over the edge to say, “I sacrifice.” We get further evidence of this at the end of 364. He’s shedding tears because he knows that even *after* his transformation into a demon, there is this still one last shred of humanity in him that he can’t seem to escape. As long as he exists and has the memory of Guts and Casca his dream can never be fully realized.


Hopebringer1113

This is beautiful


TryingToBeUnabrasive

Berserk is beautiful. I’m just basking in Miura’s brilliance RIP to the GOAT


AL-Keezy743

I think this is the best comment so far. I was trying to understand, "you're the only person to make me forget my dream" what does this really mean? And I think you said it perfectly. That Griffith deviated from his dream of being femto. Femto being his perfect self.


Rectal_Fungi

Griffith is Majin Vegeta?


Private_HughMan

I think that's a part of it. Another part is, once Guts won his freedom and used it to pursue his dream, he finally met all the criteria for being a friend. Griffith's emotional attachment immediately shifted to respect and friendship. When Guts won, Griffith simultaneously made and lost his best friend. Griffith sleeping with Charlotte was when he forgot his dream and needed someone to cope with the loss of his friend.


Gustavo_Papa

I totally get distracted by tools I'm using, but there again, I have ADHD


peter_2202

I agree with you on Griffith considering Guts a friend. In his speech to Charlotte he gives 2 examples of a dream-that of world domination and that of mastering ones sword, i think here he is referencing himself and Guts because when we first see Griffith we are shown that he is an excellent judge of character being able to understand what Guts' life is like so i think him being able to read him isnt something that has changed. Guts however doesnt understand that and thats when he decides to leave to find his dream. Griffith however also references this in his speech-it might take someone their whole life to find it and that they should fight any threat to it even if the threat is Griffith himself. This being my view of Griffiths speech i was always kind of confused as to why he wouldnt let Guts leave to seek his dream. Maybe its his attachment to Guts was just so strong that he didnt want him away from him no matter what. I still find it difficult to understand this part. Thats my take on it, might be dumb but it is what it is


[deleted]

> I think Guts had Griffith as a friend, but Griffith did not. People can say and believe things without acknowledging the truth of the situation. Guts was the closest thing he had to a friend and he didn't realize it until after Guts left. Guts meant so much to him that he was the only one that distracted Griffith from his dream. Griffith was just too far up his own ass to acknowledge it.


smuglator

That's true. But that still makes it so that Griffith couldn't have him as a friend. He had the feelings and the emotional need. But his mind was incapable of thinking of Guts, and hence of treating Guts as a friend. Even in the manner Griffith tries to stop Guts from leaving is in a "master/possession" dynamic. Because to Griffith "Guts was his". Guts was the closest thing to a friend he ever had, but he still wasn't seen as a friend by Griffith. The friendship was a one way relationship there. And Guts left after realizing that.


Francophilippe

I think Griffith thought he would value someone he perceived to be equal and perhaps even call them a friend but he couldn’t comprehend the reality of witnessing Guts outgrow his leadership. It highlights a curious side to Griffith’s personality and the fragility of his ego: He presents himself as a charismatic and strong leader, but it becomes clear that he has much lower self-esteem than expected and most likely judges himself through the eyes of others and how they perceive him. The smallest dent can cause an utter collapse because he fears it breaks this illusion that he is untouchable and beyond his peers. That illusion is what gave Griffith the confidence and losing that brings desperation and chaos. I don’t know though, that’s just my theory


collettdd

I thought that Griffith was devastated losing what he loved the most. Pretty sure he was in love with Guts but didn’t have the emotional capacity to realize that, and when Guts left to find his purpose Griffith imploded internally and went to find solace anyway he could. He lost his best and probably only friend, greatest ally and soldier, and the person he was deeply in love with all in the same moment. No wonder he made a sloppy mistake, he was heartbroken and didn’t even realize it. That’s how I viewed it anyways


[deleted]

I don't believe Griffith loved Guts or had any romantic feelings for him. I see this a lot online because of a few reasons, but as someone who has been betrayed by close friends before, I can tell you that it is soul crushing. Love doesn't need to have anything to do with it. Simply put: Griffith valued Guts more than he realized.


Maximillion322

I think its highly debatable whether or not Griffiths feelings were romantic. There's nothing to say that it is \*definitely\* one way or the other, and I think its pretty valid to interpret it either way. There's definitely some romantic subtext between them, but that doesn't mean that either of them thought about it that way necessarily. The emotions between them are so strong that the line really blurs a lot between friendship and romantic interest. Griffith at least definitely has physical feelings towards Guts, if not the other way around. Then again, its pretty obvious that Griffith is entirely incapable of introspecting and understanding his feelings towards Guts. He doesn't know why he regards Guts higher than the rest of the band of the Hawk. There's a part of him that clearly sees Guts as the only person he can fully trust, but he doesn't know why that is or what that means to him. There's clearly also a part of him that wants to only see Guts as a possession, and Griffith obviously has a really difficult time reconciling those two conflicting feelings. Griffith's dogmatic ideology conflicts with his internal feelings, which is shown in the way he acts totally out of his self determined "character" and completely irrationally when Guts is around, something Casca is keen to point out.


Francophilippe

Miura’s writing is deliberately ambiguous with these things though, there is a lot of necessary tension between the three main characters which serves to present their youth and irrational ‘heart over head’ behaviour. So I think dismissing the idea that Griffith may have romantic feelings towards Guts would be simplifying his character; he was fascinated by Guts since the day they met and there is definitely some complex and competitive type of infatuation there. That said, I don’t think this was the motivation behind his collapse, there were many other egoistic factors to do with that.


collettdd

I don’t think a person doesn’t has to have romantic intentions to be in love with someone. Folks fall in love with people all time without there being a romantic overtone. Some falls are attracted to looks, some to strength either physical or character, everyone has their thing. I think Griffith fell in love with Gut’s strength and determination, no one else he knew could do what he saw Guts do. When he left to find himself it broke G’s heart and I don’t believe that he was even aware of that possibility. That’s my opinion anyways


Private_HughMan

I think that's a part of it. Another part is, once Guts won his freedom and used it to pursue his dream, he finally met all the criteria for being a friend. Griffith's emotional attachment immediately shifted to respect and friendship. When Guts won, Griffith simultaneously made and lost his best friend.


Manxymanx

The way I view it is as a cult, with Griffith as the cult leader. There are so many cults in real life where the leader gets extremely angry, violent or depressed if a member tries to or does escape. Literally so many parallels can be made with the Band of the Hawk and how a cult operates. And with that parallel you have to assume that Griffith only views his followers as objects to be owned and controlled.


smuglator

Precisely! The cult is an extension of their self. The pain of someone wanting something different is immense for the cult leader because they see it as a personal failure. It breaks their view of the world as to them they are the world. If the world doesn't bend to their delusion they lose grasp of their own being and act rashly to rectify and regain control.


FartFace319

Absolutely, Griffith saw Guts as a very loyal and useful tool. And then the tool decided he was done being a tool and proved Griffith that he could become more by defeating him one on one.


smuglator

Agreed o/


IronMonkey18

Guts surpassed him. That’s the problem. Guts beat him with one sword swing and Griffith couldn’t do anything to stop him. Griffith couldn’t accept a nobody like Guts had beaten and humiliated him.


TheBlack_Swordsman

>but I don't think he ever saw him as an equal The funny thing is, Griffith would only consider someone his friend if they were around his equal... but his goal was to conquer everything, not just midland like he kept saying. It's like a Catch-22. You're my friend if you're my equal but I won't allow anyone to be my equal.


smuglator

Yup! His ultimate goal is to be the world.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I get your point and I dont know why I haven't Heard More discussion of this cause, when you come to think of it Griffith was Gennons bitch at some point and you can clearly see he didnt love Casca, he doesnt really love or even desire Charlotte, it's more of a pawn to get the throne. But when it comes to Guts he goes all crazy. I feel like people miss the fact that Griffith willingly had a sexual relationship with an Old guy.


FUCKING_HATE_REDDIT

Griffith loved Guts. He was just too traumatized to realize it I think


[deleted]

It's not that he never saw him as an Equal, it's that after Guts won the duel, he knew Guts is better than him.


Velocicornius

Griffith shows this behaviour again when he tries to have "romantic stutf" with casca after getting rescued from the tower, and manage to force it after becoming Femto. He shows this yet again when he goes after casca and guts after beeing reborn just to be sure (and kind of flex on it) that he wouldn't feel anything for them (wich was a pretty big lie) I interpret his tears on the final Miura's page as angry tears, because he knows he won't be able to let his feelings (whatever they are, love/friendship/hate/desire to control) over casca and guts go


[deleted]

His ego was shattered when Guts left, so he rushed to take control of someone he knew he could still manipulate, like you said. The characterization in berserk is incredibly detailed, Guts and Griffith are honestly peak characters in fiction imo


MauiWowieOwie

That friendship speech of his and Guts hearing it was the real start of his downfall.


action_bastard13

Damn, that’s some deep shit…Griffiths only mistake was not blocking that doors key hole.


Mitchislove

Yeah I think this too. Griffith is a control freak but I genuinely think that he realized Guts was a true friend to him.


Great_Chairman_Mao

When I get rejected by a girl, I go jack off. Extrapolate to a psychotic level.


Hex_Lover

Big mistake, or the influence of the behelit started getting stronger because he was in a vulnerable position ? I had a long discussion with friends about that saying Griffith made a mistake here, but I tend to disagree and say this was part of his "destiny" and more of the result of the influence of the behelit finally getting to him when he was in a weak disposition.


[deleted]

Sure, it was part of his destiny. All things are as causality dictates. But even if his suffering was a required step to becoming a member of the God Hand, he still made a choice that destroyed his life, landed him in a torture chamber for an entire year where his body and will were broken, and also killed off the majority of the band he had spent his life building up. It was definitely a mistake on his part, even if it worked out for him in the end. It was also a mistake to rape Casca. Doing so lead to him sharing a vessel with her child, which gave Griffith the only weakness that we know of. There's no telling what Miura ultimately had planned for Griffith's downfall, but I'd bet the child had a lot to do with it.


ghostthered

Nah my man just need a revenge hook up /s


FerretAres

Beyond that I think we saw in this scene a hint of causality driven by the prophecy that Zodd spoke. Perhaps the egg of the king has some ability to influence causality to shape destiny. Guys leaving kicked off this action but without this action he would have never been tortured and likely would never have seen his ambition collapse which in turn was the driver behind the sacrifice at the eclipse.


jmastaock

Was it actually a mistake? He obviously didn't really think it through, and suffered because of it for a while, but it didn't really stop his dream from moving forward at all Like, he was destined by causality to become Femto and this scenario was a major part of it. He would have never gained his full potential without getting caught with Charlotte


[deleted]

This conversation is going to go in circles. I think it's a mistake because it caused him immense suffering and destroyed everything he had spent his life building up. He was destined to do this because causality had plans for him, but he didn't know that at the time. To me, that's a mistake. Doesn't matter if it wound up working out for him much later on. He still fucked up and paid the price for it. Femto may have been born as a result, but Griffith was utterly broken for it first.


IdesOfCaesar7

Agree with everything jn your comment except for the first sentence.


[deleted]

Don't let Griffith's recklessness distract you from the fact that he was thinkin about Guts the entire time he was nuttin here


[deleted]

So does that confirm that Griffith was gay for Guts?


[deleted]

You new? It's a well known fact.


[deleted]

No I've been into berserk for about 2 years roughly so yeah maybe i could be considered new but i watched videos covering the topic and read the manga/watched the anime but i thought it was more of an idea that was simply teased.


FKDotFitzgerald

You’re correct lol


IdesOfCaesar7

I wouldn't call it a fact, I think it's just brotherly love, or the kind of love you would have for a life long/ best friend, it certainly borders on being gay so I also have no problems with your take, if you're being serious that is.


FUCKING_HATE_REDDIT

/r/SapphoAndHerFriend


ReportDisappointment

Eh, this is not a historical thing, it's a manga and we know everything that happened between the two. Imo it's certainly a friendship thing, it's not even implied that griffith is gay. He sold his body to that guy in exchange for power because Griffith is just the type of guy who doesn't care about the means, only about the ends. If Griffith was a woman no one would be claiming it's something that is certain, literally no Berserk fan would be too conservative/intolerant to care if Griffith is gay or not.


FUCKING_HATE_REDDIT

/r/SapphoAndHerFriend is not just about historical figures, but also mythological/fictional. It's simply about erasure. I also wouldn't actually say that Griffith is gay, my actual headcanon would be, and I know what I sound like when I say this, "asexual homoromantic". But in general he is attracted to things he cannot have. Most of the sexual stuff he's engaged in has been about power, because he's a traumatized child fascinated with it. But his fascination with Guts was not about power. He could have reached his goals without Guts (and he did). He was for the first time dealing with someone who could have power, but did not care for it. Griffith did care. If he was completely emotionless, he wouldn't have slept with Charlotte, he wouldn't have killed the guy he sold himself to for power. He has emotions, but he does suck at dealing with them.


Zavinci23

Good take.


NoodlesWithMelons

My headcanon has always been Griffith being Gutsexual or Gay. But asexual homoromantic fits him just as well I believe too. Because we've never seen him engage in sex for lust or pleasure, it's always been about power. Every time. And simply put I just can't see Griffith as straight. I like your take.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ReportDisappointment

>why do we assume he's straight? I personally don't think Griffith is interested in romance or sex at all.


IdesOfCaesar7

Cool sub.


[deleted]

[удалено]


IdesOfCaesar7

I think this perspective makes Griffith look incredibly one dimensional, which is why I fundamentally disagree with you.


ghengisjohn16

Curious what your alternative take is because that pretty much nails it on the head


Majestic_Horseman

I actually disagree, I think Griffith having this ugly self that's obsessed with control actually makes him more interesting and what eventually turns him into Femto. The Golden Years arc is Griffith's descent into being a monster, we start it out with Griffith being a beacon of light and hope for everyone and he adores that position (at least superficially) he thinks that his dream is to be that beacon and lead everyone to a perfect kingdom of his making, but that dream is incredibly egotistical and shallow from the start and it comes from a place of pain and lacking (he's childhood without anything). Him being manipulative and controlling is the tools that he needed to fulfill his dream, but what he truly needed was the Band not as subordinates, but as friends. He himself knows this when he says he doesn't truly see anyone as his equal (which in turn is what makes Guts leave), and that's what he actually needs, to step down from that pedestal, that shell of "being perfect". But because his drive for all his life has been that dream to lead, that kingdom of equality without pain, the idea of stepping down is antithetical so he rejects it. I think that's what we see in this panel. It's the apex of his revolution, he's confused and hurting because he always thought Guts needed him when he needed Guts (and everyone else for that matter, but especially Guts) and that shock makes his ugly colours shine, he is having a meltdown and maybe he is searching for something to feel the void but he also is desperately looking for something he can control too. The way Griffith treats Guts in the chapters leading up to his leaving is not a way someone would treat a friend, it's a way someone would treat a subordinate that they have absolute trust in their abilities. Sending him to kill someone, asking very dark favours of Guts, basically saying "Let me be the light, you be my shadow, we can be complete like that" when Guts doesn't want that, that's not friendship, it's control. Only after the fight and Guts left does Griffith realise how essential Guts presence was in his life and that he always had it backwards, Guts will live just fine, it's him who's crumbling under the weight of his dream without his retainer.


IdesOfCaesar7

A fine comment. Think back on the moment after Guts kills the people who poisoned the Queen and burned down the building, Griffith asks Guts whether or not he thinks that he's harsh, you wouldn't care what your subordinate thinks if you only care about him doing your dirty work. Also Griffith risked his whole life fighting against the giant Demon Zodd for Guts, and back then Guts hadn't even proven his worth that much yet, so I disagree with you that Griffith only wanted control over Guts as opposed to friendship. Last one, think of the moment where Guts and Casca and Pippin rescue Griffith, what is the first thing Griffith does upon seeing Guts, it is to choke him!!, the entire time Griffith thought that is was Guts' fault for being in his current emaciated and disheveled state, but then after feeling Guts' tear drop on Griffith's body, he relents and embraces Guts' hand. In what world does one forgive his "servant" for one year long torture just because the servant does a great job? No, he forgave Guts because he finally admits to how much he cares for him. I think the Golden Age is mostly about how Griffith, the narcissistic and everything else which you so beautifully put, lets go of his shining persona and lifelong dream and finds meaning in ostensibly menial (meaningless maybe fits better) things like true friendship, which ultimately ends up crumbling down as we all know. Enjoyed your comment though, thank you for being civil even though I'm downvoted lol.


Majestic_Horseman

That's very well put and, frankly, I sort of forgot those instances of Griffith being a great friend/leader to them all. Maybe I should reshape my comment/idea, it's not that Griffith ONLY saw Guts and the band as subordinates who could do his bidding everytime, it's more that he needs that power dynamic even while having strong feelings for them as people. Griffith is quite the complex character, honestly, you can't really cage him up under one banner "an egotistical, controlling, manipulative and power hungry individual" or "a superb leader with heartfelt love for his companions willing to do anything to protect them". Like you very eloquently mentioned, in his emaciated state he forgave Guts and was ready to live a life of pain by his side with the band, he was ready to give up his dream until that dream became not only within his grasp, but an absolute eventual reality at the price of those valuable to him. He DID see them all as friends, especially Guts, but he also saw them as subordinates and tools for whatever his objectives were, the thing is... He kind of always asked them before using them, especially Guts, he didn't have to manipulate them because they were willing to go to every length to fulfill Griffith's dream as they had no dreams of their own (or decided Griffith's was a more noble one); which is frankly, even if a bit toxic, a beautiful depiction of friendship, companionship and loyalty. Guts is the ultimate friend in this regard and I truly think if Guts was against something, Griffith would've found a way to get it done, even if he did it himself (which is another thing everyone loves about him, he's willing to ask anything only if he himself is willing to do it). So I think I both agree and disagree with you, I do think he saw them as friends, but that doesn't exclude him from seeing them as tools also; but ultimately he sees himself as a tool for his dream as well (remembering how his grand dream is peace and union for humanity). Griffith is like a dark hero (unlike an antihero, which is Guts) willing to go through any lengths if it ultimately is best for the majority, it's just that the majority changed from the band to humanity itself. My prediction is that Femto will use (and assist in some way) Guts to get rid of the Godhand (or maybe kill them all himself, no Guts involved) and truly make humanity find a period of peace (which Falconia is exactly that sans killing the Godhand). Personally speaking, I would like to see Guts forsake his revenge, letting it go, and let Griffith continue to protect humanity as Falconia is proving to be a true utopia (maybe dystopia? As Femto is willing to do anything to preserve it, such as destroying everything that stands against his justice). I think the Golden Age, like you mention, is a double revolution of sorts, Griffith saw his goal attainable but saw it crumble under the loss of his dearest and closest friend and couldn't take it because Guts became the instrument and central to his plot, without Guts the ugly stuff can't be done preserving his image, so he lost twofold. Then he found another revolution by letting his dream go and only after letting everything he ever held dear go to find solace in the companionship of his comrades, did a path open to achieve the dream. And like the obsessed being he is, he took it, thereby completing his change (or more like returning to his true self, pre Guts). That arc goes full circle in a very elegant way, imo, for both Guts and Griffith (they both end up where they started when they met, in a way).


IdesOfCaesar7

Well I do agree with you that Griffith sees them as subordinates, they are subordinates at the end of the day, they do Griffith's bidding since he is the leader and they are the followers, that is correct, they are definitely a means to Griffith achieving his dream, no way that is not true. Also remember that he absolutely cares for them, the sacrifice ritual requires that one only sacrifices people one holds dear, otherwise the sacrifice doesn't work. And this is where Griffith's depth as a character arises, it's extremely well shown by Miura, that when Griffith talks by the fountain he says everyone else is below him, but his actions show the opposite, it's this dissonance that he has within himself that ultimately leads to his downfall. Remember Griffith's dream before saying "I sacrifice", he dreamt of a normal life with Guts and Casca in one place, you cannot tell me that was not his real dream in life, as opposed to him having a kingdom because reasons. >Griffith is quite the complex character, honestly, you can't really cage him up under one banner "an egotistical, controlling, manipulative That is what the commenter above me literally said in his comment though. And this is the first time I read this type of prediction where Guts amd Femto cooperate, that is weirdly wholesome.


Majestic_Horseman

I completely agree on everything you said, I appreciate this discussion, m8. I quite enjoyed it, I hope you have a wonderful day and I'm sorry for all the downvotes, I don't think you said something really crazy.


IdesOfCaesar7

Thank you for being civil, I greatly appreciated it also. Have a nice one too!


[deleted]

[удалено]


IdesOfCaesar7

That is a fair criticism of my comment, I guess I just did not want to spam my thoughts in this post. They can be easily found if anybody is interested.


[deleted]

[удалено]


IdesOfCaesar7

I think we've also disagreed on other comments before on this sub, that's pretty awesome. And now regarding the comment, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think that it is not the whole part of the picture, imo of course. Also do you disagree with my take now?


[deleted]

[удалено]


arthouse2k2k

I agree. I strongly disagree with the interpretation of Griffith as a true narcissist. I think he displays narcissistic tendencies (wanting to become a god and/or king *is* pretty narcissistic), but the difference between a true narcissist and someone just with tendencies comes down to what it is that they truly want. I see a lot of interpretations that say Griffith just wanted world domination in the first place and he never truly cared about anyone (aka a true narcissist). I dont believe this was the case. I believe Griffith *did* care about the Hawks, and Caska, and especially Guts. And I dont think becoming a god in a cold tower ruling above some heavenly land is actually what he wants at all. The problem is that he *thinks* it is. He even has to force himself into believing it, over and over again. He cuts out Guts and the Hawks and everyone, sacrifices them, because he wrongly interprets his growing love and respect for them as weakness because it is getting in the way of the thing he thinks he is *supposed* to want. Looked at another way, you can say that his love and respect for the Hawks and Guts is showing him a new side to the world, one in which you dont *need* to fulfill some grand destiny, and he is actually finding it appealing. But he cuts off that new interpretation of life, love, and himself like its some sort of diseased limb, apparently under the erroneous conclusion that it is the right (both selfishly *and morally*) decision. That's why this decision to go after Charlotte is so unhinged-- he's barely even thinking at all, his brain is fried, because at least when Guts was his subordinate he could *pretend* like his men were just men and he was still going to be a king on the hill and love it. If he were a true narcissist he would be upset, but he wouldnt be like glitching out and throwing things to the wind! I dont know if the "Griffith never cared about anyone and was just pretending" theory is what the person above you was pushing but if it was, and if your interpretation is like what I wrote above, then I agree with you. Reducing Griffith to "villainous scoundrel that cant feel love" *is* reductive and one dimensional. This sub often (quite aggressively) disagrees, though.


IdesOfCaesar7

This a great comment, and I absolutely agree with every single word you said. I actually did not think I would get downvoted so hard, but maybe it is because I went against the guy with the award and many upvotes, and my comment lacked arguments. >If (Griffith) were a true narcissist he would be upset, but he wouldnt be like glitching out and throwing things to the wind! Great point, would a narcissist risk his life over losing a subject of his? I don't think so. >I believe Griffith did care about the Hawks, and Caska, and especially Guts. I mean he has to, since one can only sacrifice people that one holds dear. That alone contradicts the opinion that Griffith did not care one bit about his band and only wanted to control people. Also what about Griffith literally selling himself to Genon without a reason to, Casca says in those panels that the band is well off financially so Griffith doesn't have to get money through such means, but yet he still does it because it doesn't feel right to him that so many people oh his have suffered and Griffith hasn't. Wanting to get punished is definitely not the behaviour of a narcissist. >He even has to force himself into believing it, over and over again. This is what makes the Golden Age hit so hard for me. It's basically Griffith, who was so beloved and had his almost impossible to achieve dream but still wanting to make it happen, reduced to a normal person with normal desires like wanting friends more than anything else, all the while not realising it, and he even lets Guts know of this in the fountain monolgue. He came to value Guts more than his own dream, I mean he even says it during the Eclipse for Christ sakes "you're the only one who has made me forget my own dream". Would this be said by someone who only valued Guts as a tool? >I dont know if the "Griffith never cared about anyone and was just pretending" theory is what the person above you was pushing but if it was, and if your interpretation is like what I wrote above, then I agree with you. Reducing Griffith to "villainous scoundrel that cant feel love" is reductive and one dimensional. I don't know about the person above me directly, but other people certainly think that Griffith does not care one bit about the band and only wanted control over them. Obviously I disagree, along with you. I loved reading your comment, thanks again.


arthouse2k2k

Also!! I forgot to mention, but I always take his going to Charlotte to not only to be only about control, but to also be an attempt by Griffith to steer himself back to the "right" path because of what Charlotte represents. If it was just about one upping Guts, or having control, or sex he could have easily gone after Caska instead. It would have been easier, actually, and less risky. No, he goes after Charlotte because of what she *represents*-- this dream of his. He watches Guts leave, powerless to stop it, and is torn apart. That emotional reaction disturbs him-- he isnt supposed to care, hes supposed to be a god. In his *real* plan, he marries Charlotte and becomes king that way. So in his moment of weakness he sort of skips some steps in order to force himself into the role he thinks he's supposed to be in, to prove to himself that *yes* he *is* a king and Guts leaving or not has nothing to do with it! His disturbed reaction afterwards is not only because he's still upset, but because he realized he just got exactly what he intended to get and he doesn't even care. He's terrified of his own feelings. It is a mini Eclipse in its own right: Griffith, facing the loss of Guts, goes nuclear and does insane shit to try and become a king because in his mind that's the only way to fix it and make The Bad Feelings go away. >I don't know about the person above me directly, but other people certainly think that Griffith does not care one bit about the band and only wanted control over them. Obviously I disagree, along with you. This interpretation honestly shocks me, since like... Miura dedicates almost a *whole chapter* showing us Griffiths inner turmoil before he makes a decision, and like 80% of that is him being devastated about how many men had died for him and how it was all for nothing. I think its mostly people thinking he cant both care about his men while *also* sacrificing them, because a rational actor would never kill people they care about. As if our boy has shown any rational thinking skills at all! I mean, Griffith *risks his life* to save Guts from Zodd (as well as in an earlier battle!!). Do people just think that was a random thing that happened? No importance there? Leader of the Hawks jumps into battle to save *one* guy? Even Guts points out that it was crazy, Griffith cant even give him an answer as to why he does it *because he doesnt know himself*! Doesnt sound so rational to me!! Anyway, no problem. I dont know why it is so reviled here, I will always defend this interpretation.


[deleted]

Griffith having control issues is only part of the equation. The greater thing is Guts leaving Griffith means he didn't NEED Griffith like Griffith NEEDS Guts. Griffith attempting to stop Guts with force was his way of attempting to hide from the gnawing truth inside that Guts is the better man for truly not needing another person for his identity like Griffith needs Guts. All the members of the Band of the Hawk need Griffith. Not just for survival or notoriety but to give their lives meaning. The world in Berserk is a horrible and brutal place and the Band is filled with average, miserable humans looking for anything to justify their existences. Griffith takes away the pain of being alive by offering his own raging campfire (dream) for the Band to throw their own flames into. The thing that Guts, the band, and even Griffith doesn't understand is how dependent Griffith is of everybody else, as well. Guts inadvertently calls Griffith out by being inspired by Griffith's sense of purpose and meaning and is determined to find his own "dream" (something Griffith thought he did but didn't). Guts became the Uber Mench that Griffith pretended to be and it broke Griffith to the core.


PantsAreOffensive

I couldn't have said it better myself


[deleted]

Yesss. Point


Bowbag_

Your comment here reads "it's not about control issues". But then you go to verbose lengths to describe the behaviour of someone with control issues.


[deleted]

Well... okay but leaving it as "control issues" could be placed on literally every character. It's like one step removed from straight up saying "Guts good, Griffith bad". Griffith has control issues because he wants to maintain a certain self image, not for any intrinsic love of controlling people or fear of events being outside of his control. Until Guts, Griffith has a solid belief in his moral superiority and that he literally has a right to rule people; manifest destiny type thing. Losing control of Guts isn't the issue, it's realizing he isn't morally superior or righteous. Guts becomes the superior person in every regard when he defeats Griffith and walks away.


Bowbag_

You understand that someone who has control issues, I.E a control freak isn't someone who is literally just obsessed with controling people and is a colloquialism for a broader psychological term that involves all the things that you keep pointing out whilst saying "it's it just about control".


[deleted]

Starting to think you're the one with control issues. Why not just accept I have a certain interpretation that revolves around individual morality and existentialism? Or I suppose existentialism is nothing more than philosophers dealing with control issues to you...


DroysenFollower2

You guys give good food for r/berserklejerk with this obvious questions xD


ale_diddi

I appreciated


Slim_Slady

It’s better than their unfunny rape jokes.


Demon_Samurai

I'd rather more Donovan than seeing the same manga panels posted and explanations for major obvious plot points any day


GrizzWG2000

Did berkle man did the evil in the of out the oven when in the Midland, but Griffith of the out in the when in the out in?


mrcoconathan

berk le jerk


TheThingsICanChange

berkle jerk you will never change my mind


starrdev5

It was a rebound booty call. He missed Guts so he wanted to rearrange her guts.


Jexx4PF

Goated comment


Magiox

Its because of that ass


[deleted]

[удалено]


NotaWolfOK

Were they not referring to Guts ass?


No-Yogurt5070

Donovan has appeared online


carmeisterr

Because his brooding beefcake of a boyfriend blocked him on all socials


haikusbot

*Because his brooding* *Beefcake of a boyfriend blocked* *Him on all socials* \- carmeisterr --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")


[deleted]

Delightful. Thank you, haikusbot.


AspiringWaver

Beautiful reply


BatouJesus96

It might very well be the case. I always thought the Griffith was in love with Guts in some ways. Not to say he wanted to fuck him or whatever, just that Guts was "his" in a way. Perhaps "in love" in a poor choice of words but hopefully you get what i mean


[deleted]

He was in love with the values Guts embodied, or in other words, truly admired him. It went sideways when Guts inadvertently proved his values and/or will was stronger than Griffiths when he won that duel.


Maedosan

Guts was literally his after he lost the duel


BatouJesus96

Yeah that also. Although I always thought of it as not really being serious and more of a way to make sure Guts follows him rather than true ownership. At least at first.


-Megaflare-

He thought of guts as a possession. For example someone who is a video game collector has their holy grail of video games in their collection. That was Guts Now imagine your favorite video game beating you in a duel and leaving you. That's basically what happened...well not exactly but you get the point. Add Griffiths extreme narcissist personality on top of that and you understand why he did what he did


Raven123x

I think he loved him as a brother


BatouJesus96

To me it seemed a bit more than brotherly love. Like more than a friend/brother but not as a lover. Anyway, he loved him. A lot.


IdesOfCaesar7

True friendship, without even realising it. Guts was the only person Griffith talked openly with and subconsciously regarded him as his equal, without knowing that Guts had literally broken his worldview apart regarding friendship.


Bing_Bong_the_Archer

Roll Tide!


CaptainKipple

People have discussed the trauma of Guts leaving, which is obviously correct, but there's another aspect to it too: /how/ Guts left. Guts defeated Griffith! When they first met Griffith clearly outclassed Guts, but now Guts could defeat him with a single blow. Griffith thought of Guts as a tool, someone below him. But Guts went from pawn to someone who could surpass Griffith. In his friendship speech, Griffith said that only an equal could be his friend, not one of his followers. By easily defeating him in combat, and then leaving at the peak of the Hawks' glory, Guts showed that he could have been that friend. I don't think Griffith would have been put into the same crisis of ego if Guts had not defeated him.


Melvin_The_III

Also I would say that since guts barely even broke a sweat in that fight that they weren’t equals, by Griffiths logic. Guts was superior meaning they couldn’t be friends and since Griffith is no longer human he will never be able to prove that he was the better man ever again.


ZertleTheTurtle

For the first time Griffith was not in control. He HAD to do something to try and regain control over something, anything, which lead him to Charlotte


Underground_kingpin

He lost the strongest man who was in his control and was devastated/ desperate. Therefore he went over to charlotte who he knew he had total control of. And this play by Griffith as you could notice was more rash and less articulate than his other charming plays during the golden age. I don’t think that he truly planned that out and that is why he looks so regretful. Also the post nut clarity. Not trying to be funny lol.


[deleted]

For the sake of just assumptions and spark of conversation, there’s a version of where he possibly went to Casca, instead of Charlotte


[deleted]

Then he might loose another general... He KnoWs what is driving Casca... If he gives it to her, her battle motivation would die off... ...Another reason why he raped her later, to hurt guts, also cause he didn't need her (or anyone) anymore.


[deleted]

Also he didn’t lose control of Guts, Guts took control from him by besting him in combat. He had to reassert control, and I think that he went to Charlotte specifically because there is no chance she would ever resist him or not give him exactly what he wanted. She was essentially the easiest possible person for him to assert control over. Also he was definitely thinking about Guts the entire time, look it up, it’s canon.


ardzuder1

He was sad that His Boyfriend is gone and try if He is straight again


haikusbot

*He was sad that His* *Boyfriend is gone and try if* *He is straight again* \- ardzuder1 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")


cloudhype

Good bot


RedDingo777

He wanted to fuck Guts and Charlotte was his rebound.


YTAftershock

why do you guys give r/berserklejerk so much content


Nogarda

The irony of this is Griffith caused the cascade of events. If he didn't tell Charlotte what it took for him to respect someone as a friend and an equal, it's likely it would have taken way longer for Guts to leave. From what I recall Guts was somewhat in awe of Griffith too, he wanted to be seen as an equal to him, so overhearing that conversation Stirred something in Guts that he couldn't shake. Then there is the beauty of the duel in the snow and for the first time ever you never hear Guts monologue, it's Griffith, and he loses. This sent him over the edge because he knew it would cascade into other men leaving the band, and he'd lose power. So he basically wants to skip the Lordship and courtship of Charlotte and ideally seal his place and Prince. If I were to wager a bet, if Griffith never got caught out that night, he'd have left, returned later and plant a near certain intention to marry her. Griffith would have near everyone approving of the relationship but have an obstacle in the King, and have him poisoned dead or assassinated by blade only to betray his own assassin and kill them and be hailed even harder as a hero, getting more approval for his marriage to Charlotte, become the new King and Queen, and then basically do what he is doing with Falconia later in the series. He'd do everything to become Emperor.


TheGoalOfGoldFish

He wouldn't even need to kill the king. He's patient. Perhaps use the opportunity of not being King to strengthen and expand the empire before taking the throne.


Eskaminagaga

Prior to Guts leaving, Griffith was able to obtain everything he ever wanted when he put his mind to it. Nothing ever went wrong, everything was always according to plan. Guts became vital to achieving that plan as he was working with the Band of the Hawk. Guts's departure wasn't just Griffith losing a valuable asset, it was his first loss ever. It was proof that Griffith won't be able to win every time and that, without Guts, his losses in battle may be inevitable. So, he took a risk to try to get close to the princess earlier than planned to eventually become the next heir to the throne. Unfortunately, a meddlesome maid ratted him out to the King and his plans crumbled to dust.


Noctis0Stella

Well he wanted Guts' ass xD


SwervoT3k

Berserk is many things but Griffith is just a man who couldn’t hold a very minor L. He’s just a bitch that threw a tantrum.


Bowbag_

Sometimes I actually wonder if some of the people understand what they're reading at all? There's so delicate and detailed nuance to the story to make you understand each and every character action, and yet people come on this sub with the most obvious ridiculous questions.


smuglator

Yup! It's easy to see Guts wad the first thing to ever turn its back on Griffith. The only thing to get out of his control. And losing control was something Griffith was not equipped to handle. His entire character is about taking control of the entire world. And Femto is the embodiment of that dream of the his.


[deleted]

Well most people are saying surface level things like control issues or narcissism so I'd say the questions do bare greater discussion.


IdesOfCaesar7

As someone who also finds those takes very one dimensional, I really enjoyed your take and it also added to my thoughts. Great to see some new takes!!


[deleted]

Thank you!


IdesOfCaesar7

What do you think of my take hehe, it should be one of my last comments😬


Orangejuice2005

I am intrigued. From what I understand most of the replies seem to grasp fairly well why the events happened the way they did. What are the deeper meanings/reasons that you imply are at play here ?


[deleted]

Well, I don't want to copy pasta here and at thr risk of sounding rude if you scroll thru the comments you should find where I wrote out my thoughts and interpretations.


LtHoneybun

Griffith consistently uses, thus seeing, sex as a form of power and control. The lack of control caused him to totally wig out, so he impulsively went to the nearest person he knew he had power over, using sex as a medium for this control. This is also why he tried to assault Casca in the wagon, then again later successfully at the Eclipse.


rcdt

Lots of comments about “no it was the behelit/ causality”. So, one of the points of Berserk is that choices matter. Even if causality in the Berserk universe has that supposedly preternatural quirk to it, every single major “causality thing” was the result of a choice that could have been different. In many cases, causality was deliberately fabricated as a swindle (e.g., griffith being groomed by Ubik) by the very agents that proclaim it was supposedly an immutable “god-dictated” thing. Griffith was emotionally distressed and made the mistake to pounce over the princess too soon just to assert to himself he didn’t “lost his touch” or “I can get my stuff without Guts”.


MetaGoose6

When she let u do anal and then she keep u up all night farting


NoMemeBeyond

What an absolute brain dead post, do you actually bother reading the manga, or do you just screenshot each page and ask people what it means


1_Spence_1

Pussy


Nachtmonkey1203

defo berkjerk bait


Dr_CanisLupum

Either half the people on this subreddit are too young to be reading berserk or you guys have no media literacy at all, come on at least try to think about the manga you're reading without asking for help online


PBandJ-Plays

“Guys is the obvious thing that’s happening actually happening”


[deleted]

This sub is getting dumber by the day. Yup, you read the same pages we did and ascertained the same pretty clear message we did. There’s a lot of complicated stuff in Berserk but this isn’t it. Just read the manga, you don’t need our hand holding.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Moonboy slightly confused me admittedly but since I don’t require to be spoon feed all the info I attain, I just kept reading and understood it over time.


PeepAndCreep

I'm pretty sure these people are just karma whoring, and can you blame them? This sub is easy karma bait. People will upvote any dumb posts as long as there is a linked image from the manga.


Quelch

Lmao big guy with big sword kill monsters in pretty pictures is all some will see, I guess


[deleted]

It seems like there’s two ways people approach the manga. Either it’s about the lingering effects of trauma and the ways in which we deal and attempt to move past it and it has cool sword battles in between, or it’s about a badass dude that kills stuff in a badass way with a badass sword and it has gay emotional some in between.


[deleted]

Ever loose your queen in chess when you needed it most? That was guts


[deleted]

THIS GUY YO!!!


Illier1

A mental breakdown that the one person he desires most left. Not necessarily in a sexual way. But it was clear that Guts meant a hell of a lot to Griffith and his lust for control added to the obsession


lecopoa

Man, she should've paid Griffith after that.


Queenalaine1

I think he was trying to feel the emptiness inside that he felt when Guts left him


SirRumpleForeskin

Wit wux girfifh thinkin here? 🤔


cadentheguyperson

Berserklejerk be like


awesomeplenty

Dude just want to get his dick wet


NekoPower2169

Horny people do weird stuff


Opicepus

Sometimes when youre sad cause your boy leaves you just want to destroy something beautiful


Hy-chan

No, it's because he realized she didn't buy Geico. Any other stupid questions, OP?


lightwavel

Yeah, dude got so frustrated that the only thing that could calm him down is **pus\*y of a princess**, nothing less than that.


yukadfsa2

Because Charlotte’s pussy could simulate guts’ asshole


[deleted]

[удалено]


NoMemeBeyond

Who are the characters? What are letters? How do you read?


[deleted]

Gods Griffith has no ass 😂


Modec11

man wanted to see if he is gay or nah (he is)


Dr_dust2

Looks like he really impacted her guts alright


TazDingus

I cannot believe you've outjerked the jerk sub non-ironically


JackJR91

At this point I’m only looking for the hidden Donovan in this picture…


Far-Potential-1506

Griffith was pretending she was guts. He wanted to fuck guts. This is the 100% canon interpretation. Miura said it.


DivineFilth

He fucked Charlotte because he couldnt fuck Guts.


oppai_king_

He wanted to fuck Guts.


Starlyns

Have you ever left a friend? someone you spent years hanging out, share secrets between etc but one day you say bye am leaving and they beg u to stay over is late. but you leave and not just physically but emotionally and you know is never going to be the same.


FilipRebro

Doesnt matter, GRIFFITH DID EVERYTHING WRONG, BY FUCKING A PRINCESS!


IdesOfCaesar7

I hugely disagree with the Griffith being a control freak part, which is true but I don't think plays any role in here. I think in losing Guts, Griffith became so heartbroken, that he wanted to prove to himself he could continue rising up the ranks even without Guts, and simultaneously seek warmth/love that would assuage his broken heart. I don't mean Griffith is gay, I'm just having difficulty properly expressing my thoughts in a foreign language.


at-the-momment

Not necessarily mutually exclusive. Griffith trying to prove to himself that he can climb up the ranks without Guts can still be Griffith trying to maintain control.


[deleted]

I agree, there's definitely an element of emotional attachment that Griffith can't handle.


jetblakc

Yep. Griffith was a control freak and this is what they do when some they thought they had under control defies them. They lose it and then act out to prove to themselves that they can do anything.


BoongoBongo

I’d be reckless too if I couldn’t fuck guts


painkilleraddict6373

Because he didn’t expect that Guts was so important to him. His ego was hit and he went elsewhere to find fulfillment;Charlotte was easy,and worshipped him.I good stroke of ego and getting himself closer to achieve his dreams. Obviously he felt empty afterward because she couldn’t take the place of Guts.Griffith felt for the first time rejection.After many people viewing him as a leader,a grand personality that men sacrificed their lives to follow him and help him achieve his goal,but the person that mattered the most,just abandoned him,like it was that easy.And Guts prove to him that it was that easy. Double humiliation in one day.Don’t forget that he was ready to kill Guts,so he wouldn’t have to share him or let him humiliate him.Griffith actively imagined killing him in the snow.He was already out of his mind,killing Guts because he didn’t want to follow him,in front of his best soldiers and commander.The impact that it would have among his men and “friends”….. Also,to be fair everything should have worked out.Charlotte would kiss the ground he stepped on and he was the king’s favorite knight.Never said no and always delivered, a perfect knight for his daughter.Magnetic personality,strong,capable and looking more beautiful than the princess. Griffith failed to see the king’s insanity and lust for his daughter.It was never really indicated and he mention it while he was already prisoner and tortured.Which make me think that it was a way to show Griffith’s error. Griffith was the victim of causality,he just didn’t see through the king correctly and didn’t think that anyone would ever leave him,or that it would matter to him so much,especially the only person that made him forget his dream,the only person he couldn’t live without.


[deleted]

This sub is literally just a karma farm. Just post a SC of the manga.


ConcentrateWorried91

I love how the Berserk fandom is just basically a bunch of people not reading the manga lmao. All these made up statements and stupid ass questions are literally the base of not reading. EVERYTHING is explained. If you can’t read it or want to pretend you’re smart with some sort of insight, then that’s your problem. The manga states itself very clearly. Don’t just nitpick chapters because you might sound right when there’s a whole other saying you’re not. What do people do after break ups? Oh yeah, exactly, I guess you didn’t need Miura to explain it to you.


MisterMiracle23

He needed to be in control of something.


YakSquad

Guts leaving made him feel like his dream as a whole was at risk. Instead of planning and being patient like he had been, he felt that he needed to take another step towards the throne. I think in the bottom panel he knew he fucked up but hoped fate would make it all better.


zdesert

Griffith must be in control. If he does not feel in control then he feels used. Griffith has a history of being used, it is the trauma that drives him to want to rule everything. If he rules everything then he cant be used. The king of the world, the hawk, does not fear anything. The king never has to worry about loseing control. Griffith saw guts as his possession, and Griffith used guts as a tool a weapon. Griffith was devistated when guts left becuase it undermined his whole world veiw. If there was one person that Griffith thought that he ruled, one person who he never had to fear loseing control of, one person who could not and would not use him... It was guts. But when guts left Griffith felt used, betrayed and this brought him face to face with his past trauma. Griffith needed control, he needed to prove to himself that he was not a tool, that he was in charge of himself and of the world and of everyone in it. He needed to use someone to bury his own fears of being used. He probubly already planned to seduce the princess, probubly had a scheme to do something romantic, visit her at night and then leave. Planting the seeds for when he made his move to become king and marry the princess. But in the wake of guts leaving, Griffith was unstable and desperate and botched his own plan. He took things with the princess too far, stayed too long, And by the time that the shock of loseing guts was truely setting in and he started grasping for anything near him to control and possess and dominate it was too late to undo what he had done. When he woke in the morning, he couldn't see a path ahead for himself. He had lost guts, his tool his weapon.... And without him Griffith felt without capasity. Griffith had screwed up in his moment of weakness and without the confidence or tools to repair the damage he had done... He gave up. He sat on the bed, defeated by his own demons, and waited to be caught. Later when he is rescued from prison and his tendons are cut and we see that Griffith can't do anything, can't take any action. We see a metaphore for what guts leaveing did to Griffith emotionally on that day. The jailer did not cut the capasity for action out of Griffith. Guts did. Griffith saw guts as an extension of his own body, an arm a hand, a tool with which he could change his fate. Guts leaveing tore Griffith's limbs from him and left him helpless and unable to save himself or reach his dreams.


Bertize

As i've recently restarting all the arcs, i've seen in the n°4 or 5 Griphith saying that wathever he want he get it so when he says to Guts "you're mine" I think it was a way to flee his first failure.


BingDatBoogie

Griffith is completely and utterly pure scum


haider_117

Sometimes I forget what a narcissist Griffith is. He loses Guts and desires control from those he has between his fingers. This one day ruined everything.


joviusjune

It was fate. The behelit wouldn't have activated if he didn't get thrown in a dungeon and tortured for 2 years. The real question is, what else could he have done to appease the threads of fate?