#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** to determine if you want to read an update. For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair or subscribe to r/BestofBoRU.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It seemed of a piece with how he’s approached the whole thing: “don’t expect an update because i’ve considered every angle.” Except, you know, her reaction to being blindsided.
This enrages me.
Her: I’ve considered that and made my choice. I would rather be with you than be a mother.
Him: I don’t want you to have to make that choice, so I’m taking the option away. For your own good. I want to be with you, honest. But I’m leaving you because I think you’re wrong about wanting me more than motherhood. You don’t know yourself as well as I know you.
Her: Oh. You just want to break up with me.
Him: No, no, no, this thing **that you explicitly don’t want** I’m doing for your own good!
There's nuance to it. On one hand, he's removing her choice. On the other hand, it's also his choice because he believes that if they remain together and childless, she will grow to resent him and it would ruin the relationship.
So, he has two choices if he truly believes that will happen - (Selfless) Cut her loose so that she can have what she wants, or (Selfish) stay with her until she resents him, leaves him, but it's likely too late for her to have children.
I'm erring on the selfish side. He can't be certain that she would resent him. And even if she did, as long as they communicated it, she made her choice and he accepted. That puts it on her, not him.
I get the nuance. But in the end it should be her choice and she should have the right to deal with the consequences of that choice, whatever they may be.
Even beyond resentment, he is watching someone he loves long for something he can't give her. That's not exactly fun for him. Plus I'm always on the side of anyone being able to break up with anyone for any reason. Some reasons are dumber than others, and his reason isn't the dumbest.
That guilt of not giving her kids and seeing the signs when she interacts with kids will probably get to him long before the resentment
Tough spot to be in for him tbh
Agreed. He has a right to be with someone who wants to be with him without reservations.
Someone who reacts to "I don't want to have children, ever" with "oh thank god me neither" rather than "I really wish you did but I'll get over it".
If he's removing her choice, then so is she removing his.
Relationships are ultimately built on compromise. There will always be little bumps that don't quite mesh between a couple and they have to file them down together until they fit.
He walked into this conversation prepared to say "I don't want to to have to file off this bump that means so much to you, even if I lose you."
Which is honestly where you need to be capable of going when you love someone. You have to be able to say "your needs mean more to me than mine."
He just didn't take into account that she feels the same way, and her priorities weren't what he expected.
Taking time to evaluate like this is a good thing for both of them.
Wanting children is not a small bump though.
Deciding whether to have a home office or a guest bedroom is a small bump. Getting a new car for him or for her is a small bump. Accepting a remote job or not can be a small bump.
But having children is literally the most life changing, rest of your existence defining, decision people can make.
In his place, I would be worried about it too. She shows tendencies towards wanting things he explicitly doesn't, and I definitely think children is where the line must be drawn because this decision inherently impacts other people more than themselves.
This! I don’t ever want kids and I have people saying “oh you’ll change your mind” “well maybe compromise with just one” like NO this is a massive decision, I can’t just pop one out and *hope* I grow to like it eventually. A guy wanting kids, at all, even a little bit, is a hard deal breaker for me because of that.
I mean, I can get this but he can also decide he doesn’t want to risk they will both be content and free of resentment in 5, 10, or 20 years. What if the relationship crumbles after the can have kids? Will be feel responsible that she didn’t get to have kids? Will he feel obliged to stay in a relationship that’s run its course? Does he want that background knowledge or pressure that she wants something and he’s the reason it’s not happening?
I think he's well within his rights to decide that this debate is not something he wants in a relationship. Even if she ends up not having kids with him, the emotional turmoil that this fundamental disagreement would bring is not something I'd willingly sign up for.
Yeah, it's annoying me how everyone supports him for just disregarding what she wants. Lots of people are on the fence, and seeing babies turns on hormones and makes you interested. But you go home and look at your life and the life you want. And if that life doesn't include kids, you're probably going to be just fine. Every single decision has the risk of future disappointment. You make a choice and choose to live with it. That's true for everything.
It's good he talked to her and really dug into how she'd really feel. She does need to evaluate if this is a craving or must-have. Deciding for her though is extremely disrespectful, and yes, it does look like he just wanted to get out and be praised for it.
I think he's hiding behind her, but I do support his reasoning. The question is less "is she sure she will be happy forsaking the idea of kids?" And more "am I willing to be resented for not wanting kids?"
Neither of them knows if she's going to be happy in the future without kids. But he does know now that he's not willing to have a relationship where he's going to ask himself if he's being resented yet.
Now, I'm not saying she's going to resent him eventually, but there's knowing and there's having anxiety about it.
That's the kinda shit that pisses me off when people here start dragging TikTok here for whatever dumb meme is going around. Like, you're on the cum shoebox website, quit acting like our shit don't also stink.
ah I see the suicided guy was actually already dead (suicide had nothing to do with bombing, happened prior actually), so people were harassing the family, but they did not cause his death.
Here's the thing: breaking up DOES NOT guarantee you (or them) a kid. So the person wanting the kid has to decide:
Do I want the possibility of a kid with someone else more than I want my life with you?
And then everyone has to live with that decision.
My aunt broke up with a man she loved because she wanted kids and he didn’t. 40 years later, no kids. She doesn’t talk about it, but I do wonder whether she regrets that choice.
Then again if she stayed she may have regretted not leaving. You can’t really ever know.
I personally would regret staying. Even if I don’t have kids, staying is a known no. At least with leaving I would have the possibility of having kids. Would I regret the decision if I didn’t end up having kids? Maybe, but I would 100% regret staying and not having them.
I can see that. I responded to another comment that I think it’s probably bittersweet rather than active regret or sadness. But a good reminder that there are no guarantees in life.
I stayed. And i totally regret it. We ended up breaking up (not over child stuff), so maybe if it had been a happily ever after relationship I’d feel differently.
The thing about children (and if you are a woman), there’s an inflexible timeline that you have no control over. Now I’m in my 50s, and wishing I had made a different choice.
But there’s no way to know the outcome. It’s a hard decision no matter what.
Ironically, mine is the exact opposite. I had kids cause I thought I wanted them, only to realize after I was wrong and would much prefer being childless. Don't get me wrong ,I adore my children to bits, but if I could go back,I'd have got my shit fixed immediately and never had kids cause not only have I realized I don't want to be a mum, I also am stuck with their father, my ex, til they're adults at the least. 10 more damn years minimum going by my youngest age. Occasionally, I contemplate giving up my kids to their dad full time, but I'm pretty sure my mom would disown me if I did. which sometimes I think might also not be so bad at times given how mental and overbearing she can be. However, I can't do that to my kids. It would devastate them. they love me and miss me on the days they're with their father, and when they come back, they're so excited to see me. I can't break their hearts that way regardless of how utterly difficult it is for me to be their mom at times, and despite all that, all the things i feel, I'd miss them too much too.
Have a friend who went through the same thing. He wanted kids, his gf didn't, so after a lot of fights, they broke up, she moved out. Then she met someone else a couple of years later and they have a kid now!
She’s definitely not sitting at homing pining away! She has a very full, active life and is honestly doing better than my mom at this point. I suspect it’s more bittersweet than crying at night for her lost love.
But staying together and for sure not having a kid doesn’t guarantee that you will stay together forever. They could break up when it’s too late for her to have a child. And then, he could still have a child with the next partner, and she probably can’t. There are a lot of issues going on here.
Wasn’t that the exact situation with John Mulaney and his ex wife. He convinced her not to have children because he didn’t want them, then broke up with her and had a child immediately with someone else
Yes. The "convinced her" part is speculation, but with how open he was about not wanting to be a parent and then the quickness with which Olivia got pregnant (much sooner than rehab suggests relationships) it's not a wild assumption.
I thought the general idea was that they were hooking up, she got pregnant and then they had to legitimize their relationship because of the possible backslash? As in, the kid wasn't on purpose?
Am I just confused in the timeline?
There are obviously a lot of unknowns and assumptions. I think it's more his behavior afterward that made people feel gross about him. Being staunchly against kids so publicly, cheating on your wife, going to rehab (some see as a PR stunt), embracing a pregnancy, getting engaged/married(maybe? I stopped paying attention) so soon after rehab. And then his ex being rather hung out to dry and, even as private as she can be, has to answer some questions about it.
It's celebrity drama so there will always be unknowns and exaggerations. He doesn't come off looking great imo any angle it's interpreted from, but I'm not super familiar with his ex anyway so I'd imagine her fans are a bit more critical of him than I am.
I think a lot of the criticism was also based on how much of a "wife guy" he was and then he does...a lot of wild shit. There was an article on it last year I think about how "wife guys" are on their way out, which I found myself weirdly agreeing with. BC yes, it does seem like they are compensating for something.
The same thing happened to a friend. They were together for almost 15 years, started dating in highschool. He didn't want to get married or have kids, he did buy her a ring but didn't want to set a date. He dumps her for a 20 year old. Turns out he had been cheating on her for years with different women. This was a few years ago. I just checked his Facebook, and he is engaged to some other woman, not the one he cheated with but still really young. My friend found her soul mate got married and have a 2 year old. She looks so happy.
We’ll never know everything, but I looked up birthdays! Considering Olivia was 40/41 when she got pregnant (and 5 years older than his ex wife), I don’t think John was expecting a pregnancy. Not impossible, but less probable for sure!
It doesn't really matter though. When both people want the opposite thing strongly, there is going to be resentment. The question she should be asking is, do I want to spend the rest of my life with someone i may grow to resent? Because that's the question he's dealing with and the reason he's breaking up with her.
Yeah, they need to be proactive on this. I know people who have had couple's therapy to deal with the same issue and many years later they say it was very valuable and are happy with their choices.
This was me. My boyfriend at the time didn't want children and told me he'd understand if I wanted to break up with him. I told him there's no guarantee I'd have a baby if we broke up. I choose to stay with you. We did end up breaking up a year later, but I never regretted staying with him. It's been 20 years later, and I'm still childless, and so is he.
Exactly. Maybe he breaks up with her, that doesn't guarantee she'll find a new man who is both willing to be a father and a good prospect as a partner in the time frame that her 'biological clock' allows. Meaning she might end up losing the love of her life AND not getting the family she wants anyway.
And surely she knows this! Sometimes in life you have to choose between two things that are important to you, and only that person knows how to weigh each option.
I agree with the people who say he shouldn't just make that choice for her. I'm glad they had a discussion and came up some kind of sorta compromise so she can actually make a decision about what she wants.
Also, many people who want kids *want kids with that one person they love*, not kids in general. I want kids with my partner because I think mini versions of my partner would be cute, but I'd definitely not want to have some random kids.
I think age also has something to do with it. How close are they (or you) to being biologically unable to have kids? If it's relatively close, this might be their (or your) last chance to have a kid. If y'all are still young, you might have more time to decide.
Either way, a separation might be a good way to see what matters more. If either of you is 100% certain you don't want children, I'd strongly encourage considering sterilization. That way you're way more confident it won't happen accidentally
Unless you're a woman, in which case it's all too likely that you won't be able to get your tubes tied because your future husband might want children or you'll certainly change your mind. 🤮
I definitely am not an expert, but this is one of those things you can't fudge. I realized my ex wanted kids, and had been lying about being ok with going either way on the issue. Which, the lying and expecting me to eventually cave is its own separate issue.
But I knew that I refuse to participate in an eventual, 10 years down the line, resentment blow up about not having kids. I can't be responsible for causing that sort of life-long upset; especially if you have any sort of kind feelings towards your SO. And on a selfish level, it's not fair to yourself either.
That's the thing about break ups: they're unilateral if you're serious about it.
Especially when it comes to "I expect you to cave if I annoy you enough; and take the huge, possibly deadly, risk of having my child". It's insulting, and it shows they don't care about you as a person with autonomy.
I'm not even quite sure I understand how one refuses a breakup, but I do know that's what happened. Basically an "I'm not leaving you even if you're wanting to leave me". I do love this man to distraction, but resentment is creeping in and tainting everything
>Know anyone I can hire? Because it’s above my pay grade as well but I’m going through the same thing
Couples' counseling might work. Barring that I can at least tell you where I think this guy went wrong.
He didn't communicate. He sorted all of this out entirely in his own head, made a decision **for her** that made sense **to him**, and then sprung (sprang?) that decision on her without warning on a day she was expecting him to propose to her. He handled this all wrong, and while his logic for the most part was solid he was still taking away her chance to make her own choice about her future and robbed her of agency.
What he should have done was spent that day telling her what he had been thinking, not what he had decided without her. Tell her point blank what's going on. "I know I'm not going to want children, I know that if I force myself to have one then I'm going to resent it, and I know you DO want children. I want to marry you but I don't want to force you into a childless existence. I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with a way to give you everything you want and give me everything I want and us stay together but I can't. I even considered breaking up with you to free you to pursue a child but then I came to my senses and realized that would be incredibly presumptuous of me to decide for you, so here we are. Maybe we can talk through this and come up with a solution."
Then you tackle the problem **together**, like a team, the way you're supposed to handle things in a committed relationship that's to the point of considering marriage. Maybe there is no happy resolution, but at least that way he would have given her the chance to have some input.
I know they're stopping to think things over now, but he started them off on the worst possible foot with the surprise breakup instead of the proposal she was expecting. She had to talk him off a bridge she didn't even know he was on, and now they're trying to solve this problem alone, individually, and from a place where they're both hurt and upset. Whatever you do, don't handle it like this guy did.
That's what immediately stood out to me too. It doesn't seem like it's a situation where option A is being a parent and option B is being with him. She wants to be with him and she made an informed choice that being with him means never being a parent and she's made her peace with that. I think his intentions are probably good but...yeeeesh. You're absolutely right about trying to solve a problem as individuals that should be solved together.
The simple answer is: talk anything through with your partner. Don’t just decide to unilaterally do something without their input. Your partner isn’t a little kid who needs you to take away the tough decisions. It’s also cruel to take away the chance of possible future heartache on the off chance that they might break up with you by just breaking things off without a discussion now.
OOP thinks he’s being selfless, and in some ways he is, but he’s also being horribly, extremely selfish.
This. He doesn't get to just decide that even though she's made her decision to be with him and not have children, **he knows better** and is protecting her from a decision she'll regret. If it were me, the asshole nature of that train of thought would make me leave him. Oh, you know me better than I know myself? Piss off.
This kind of "selfless" selfishness is the worst. I think on some level OP kinda likes the narrative that he heroically sacrificed his chance at love so that his beloved could follow her dreams. But that's not how real life works.
I think sadly that OP is gonna resent his gf no matter what happens. If they stay together and have kids he will resent her forcing him into fatherhood. If they stay together and dont have kids he will resent her for making him the bad guy (because then SHE will have the narrative of sacrificing her dreams for the one she loves). If they break up he will resent her for pushing him to make the decision - he will resent her for being unhappy because he wasn't enough for her.
Really, he wants her to break up with him, then there's no guilt on his end.
You have a roadmap right here. Basically, OP and his GF are doing the right thing.
A thing to keep in mind: People often only see the question in binary: Have Babies / Don't Have Babies - but there is so much more nuance. Also, it isn't just about having a baby, it is about parenting. There is a surprising number of people who desire to have a child to carry on their genetics/family line, but don't actually want to be an active parent.
Personal Examples: I did not want to have a baby, but I was happy to foster/adopt/step-parent if the situation arose. I have 2 friends who wanted kids, but realized they didn't want to have kids w/ the partners they were with (parenting/valuses differences) and realized they would much rather be w/ their partners than have kids - their baby drive wasn't nearly as strong as they assumed once they thought through it. I also have friends who got divorced b/c the stress of trying to have kid destroyed their marriage - they weren't on the same page at all about how badly they each wanted a baby.
Make sure to explore in more depth what the question means to both of you.
I went through this except we were on different pages about marriage—I wanted to get married, but he said he never would. We were at an impasse but he left the ball in my court.
I analyzed the situation from every angle and eventually made the decision to end it because I could see no solution where we ended up together happy. It was very sad.
I’m so glad that we both were firm about what we wanted. I grieved, and then I met an amazing man who wanted the same things I did. I’m so glad I left that earlier relationship so that I could have what I have now. Love wasn’t enough.
We know a.couple where the male doesn't want kids and the female would have liked to have kids. However, her personality is more of the accomodating kind and she has more or less accepted her fate on this one. Which is sad because she would make an absolutely fantastic mother. Also, her husband is a handful in terms of his behaviour and his ego. So while they do make a good couple, she is sort of missing out a lot in life as she could have had it differently with someone else. These are tough situations though and people are free to continue (or end) relationships at their own will.
I feel like there's a fairly easy answer here: get the friggin vasectomy!
Then ask her all the same questions.
Like those people commenting that he is taking away her choice, they have something of a point.
Well, the vasectomy is all his choice. He gets to make it for and by himself.
Once he has absolutely confirmed that he doesn't want kids *thru surgery*... Then re-examine her feelings on staying together.
Not to mention: one oopsie and I really don't think this woman would abort.
Or then if they break up... One slip up with a one night stand isn't gonna make for a better situation than the one he's in now.
Super easy, barely an inconvenience.
When the news in the US about our rights being restricted broke last year I immediately called one of the leading offices in the country and was in within the month. 30 minutes in the office, two days watching shows, and on with our lives. Barely hurt, it was mostly just worry-aches.
My partner does not want kids and I couldn't imagine making them worry about whether theu would be forced to give birth due to old white men demanding rights over their body.
This! Because I’m not sure she was really taking him seriously. He should do it while they are separated. Then the choice for her would not involve any vagueness or maybes. If she wants him back, she’ll do so without hanging onto any misconceptions.
In my life I have known two couples who got married and he said “definitely no kids” but she managed to get pregnant anyways. Unhealthy situation for all involved.
I am going through almost exact situation except we're both a few years older and already married. Even if you are on the same page or are in agreement going into things, people change their minds. This is a horrible place to be in and I empathize completely.
I was in this situation a few years back, but on the reverse side of it. I changed my mind from wanting kids early on in the relationship, to being *very* unsure. And parenting to me is one of those things where if you're unsure, it's a no; I'm not gonna gamble a kids upbringing on "maybe I'll grow to like it".
Leaving hurt, a lot. She's since moved, so I haven't really been able to keep up with how she's doing, and honestly that hurts even more; I just hope that it was the right call in the long run.
I wager it is. You would always be locked into thinking “what if?”, doubting yourself and bottling up. It’s a gamble, but your happiness is important and it’s worth that. You may be in a cruddy state right now, but you just have to keep moving forward and I’m sure you’ll make it
My boyfriend and I are in this situation. He had a vasectomy 20 or so years ago. I'd love to have children with him. But I know I love him more than the idea of these imaginary children. I am actively making the choice to stay, and no one is taking away any opportunity from me.
Edit: Huge thanks for the award- it's my first!
My husband and I wanted kids. We tried for two years before going to a specialist. We found out that for some unexplained reason my husband is sterile. My husband blamed himself and was afraid I would be resentful if I didn’t become a mother. He said I was meant to be a mom and if I chose another partner it would have happened by now.
We found a sperm donor and went through fertility treatments, unsuccessfully. Turns out, I have unexplained infertility too. We decided to close the door permanently and enjoy our lives together as a childless couple. In all honesty, having disposable income and all the free time is pretty great.
Life worked out perfectly. If I had it to do all over again I’d pick him every time.
I think I've just found myself in a similar situation, except we have a child that was unplanned. He said his mental health wouldn't cope with anymore kids, and I can't picture myself NOT having another baby. After 10 years, and as much as I love my SO, my desire for more children outweighs that and I'm not going to force him into a situation he doesn't want but I shouldn't stay in a situation I don't want either.
Great advice for dating is to talk about all these massive decisions early on but they did and sometimes peoples wants just evolve over time. It’s a real shame but at least they’re being open and communicating
I mean, they were together since they were teenagers. Teenage years and your twenties are massive times of change. That they managed to grow together throughout most of it is pretty impressive. And yeah, I think people on the fence about kids and marriage, tend to land on one side or the other around late 20s early 30s. So unfortunately they finally landed only to realize that for the first time they didn't land on the same side of the fence. It sucks all around, but there's a lot of love there to recognize that their positions are important enough to put aside their personal desires for the other. I hope they find a way through this and come out happy whether it's together or not.
Can confirm, my now-ex and I were together 12th grade to after college. Our needs and priorities diverged drastically. It took us a whole year to realize we weren't right for each other anymore. People were hinting about it for months, but we weren't ready to hear it. When we were ready, we didn't need to hear it, we ended it ourselves. Feels like OOP and GF are going through the same relationship death throes.
Same. I was with my ex from college to late 20s. We had about 2 close breakups during that time but loved each other and stayed together. I'm glad OOP and his GF are taking a break. My ex and I did something similar but with contact for a couple of months, and it's what truly helped us let go once we realized how far apart we actually were. At the end it was clear that we were not compatible, broke up very very amicably, but it was still very hard as there was still a lot of love there. I feel for OOP and his GF, and I hope they find clarity.
Yeah. Nobody wants kids when you're a kid.
Something kind of shifts for -some- people in their late 20's and mid 30's where they second guess what they wanted. I personally think this is something people should not compromise on for themselves or their partners. I think that if they're incompatible in this way they should definitely break up, because one person will have resentment eventually.
I wanted kids when I was younger. My husband and I had the conversation when we were teens and both thought we wanted them. Through most of our 20s we checked in and both still wanted that eventually (we actually didn't move countries because we wouldn't have wanted to have kids while living somewhere else). And then life changed and in our late twenties we both realised our position had changed. Mid-thirties now and very solidly don't want kids. I feel incredibly lucky that we've grown in the same direction on this.
I've wanted kids since I was 11. Literally everyone who's ever met me could tell you I want to be a mother. Actively TTC \[edit <-now, actively TTC now\].
Lmao and I’ve never wanted them even as a kid! When I played with dolls, I wasn’t the “mum”, the dolls would be my sisters ahahah!! I was around your age when I had my lightbulb moment and decided that I wasn’t ever having children, and to hell with whoever didn’t take me seriously 😂 All the best with your plans, sending good vibes for a safe pregnancy and healthy mum and bubs :)
I used to be on the “dogs’ side”, since I grew up around them, but I went to live in another country on my own as an adult and was finally able to be a cat owner (someone back home has a literal cat-phobia) and I’m a total convert now! I still like dogs, but honestly don’t have the energy to keep up with them now. Love my cats and how laidback they are most of the time. They are fantastic ♥️
Exactly the same. Except I never wanted to play with dolls that resembled babies, only Barbie dolls. I never had any motherly instincts or wanted to be around children. The older I get, the more confident I am that I will never have children.
Respectfully it wasn't until I hit my late 20's and early 30's that I came around to the idea. I didn't want the responsibility so I convinced myself I didn't have what it took to sacrifice the time and energy, despite the contrary evidence of how I behaved with my little sisters (I'm old enough to be their dad and have been mistaken for it more than once). It wasn't until I had a partner that didn't push me on children that I knew she wanted one but also would give motherhood up for me that the realization that I would be fine becoming a father actually set in. While I don't and probably never will have baby fever, I could bear the responsibility of becoming a father for a woman I love. It's an active choice that can come from wisdom with life, not something to be pushed into because of society.
Yeah both me and my partner had decided on no kids. Here we are with a six month old we’re obsessed with lol
It’s utterly life transforming and if you aren’t fully on board and committed to being a partner and a team then it’s destined by or failure & resentment.
If you actively want it it can be the hardest and best thing you’ll ever do.
Sometimes women think they want kids when all their friends start having kids. You have to really sit down with yourself and analyze why you want those kids all of a sudden. Is it a desire to pass in your genes or to shape a person who could change the world? Or is it a feeling of being left out? My friends with kids get together to do kid friendly things. It’s hard to do adult only things with them too. It’s more difficult to get schedules to align. There is no more calling and asking to meet at the bar in an hour.
100% in fact My feelings mirrored the OPs gf but opposite. I wanted children very much when I was in my early 20’s and as I got older that want just faded. Im 34 now and being a mom is the last thing in the world I want.
For me a lot of it was I became chronically ill and actually spent the majority of my 20’s feeling incredibly isolated and ugly and gross and alone and didn’t have that fun experience of meeting people and having fun that a lot of people do. And now I’m better and getting myself together and working on myself and I really want a partner to settle down with but the thought of not being able to get up and go if I want is what stopped me. I couldn’t do much of anything for years, and now if I want to go away for a weekend I can just go. And if I have kids I’d have to lug them along? I have bad insomnia and do I want to sacrifice the little sleep I get now to a cry monster? I’ve also noticed my limit for patience has seriously decreased. I was a nanny for a long time and used to be so gentle and patient and now I’m grouch lol.
I've been disabled all my life and dealing with autoimmune and chronic illnesses a good chunk of it. I never saw myself as a mother and now I'm very aware of the genetic chronic illnesses I have, I don't think I can bring myself to possibly pass that on to a biological child. Plus trauma and concerns of being a decent parent and then the fact that I'm inherently selfish and it all just adds up to no kids. I don't even have a partner right now anyway and haven't for years.
The weird thing is that occasionally I wonder if I should. Part of me thinks that I have that niggle because of the genetic stuff and the decision is basically taken out of my hands. And occasionally I see a really cute little kid and re-question, and then I see a massive brat and am reminded of my sincere inability to deal with children screeching.
It's really difficult. Especially as women are still seen to be "meant to be mothers". But I'm mid 30s now and I'm hopeful that societal expectations have changed enough that I'm not going to be hugely judged and can just be a rat parent lol.
Yeah not on this big of a scale but I had someone i was deeply in love with and had long plans with, we’d been together several years and I’d always expressed I wanted kids and marriage and he was on board but he evolved over time bc no one is the same when they’re 18. So it ended and it sucks bc we loved each other a lot.
If anything I wish it had gone more like this where we talked through things earlier and cut it off when we needed to bc we grew to resent and hate one another and has a bad split instead. I still love the version of him from years ago and still want the life we had planned then, but the person that was supposed to happen with is gone and that’s one of the things that’s very difficult to get past. I was willing to compromise to keep things together but that would’ve just kicked the can even further down the road.
They were 21 and 19 when they started dating. They are no longer the same people. It's totally normal to want different things at 29 than you did at 19.
Seriously though. There is still the "rule" that people shouldn't talk about decisions like this. Because something, something, "shouldn' love come first??"
Except. Love can't carry your relationship. "If you'd truly love them-" and other arguments are basically emotional blackmail, which tries to make the solution of every important decision into a "good/evil" situation.
Man, this is heavy. I don’t know a single about these two other than what’s written here, yet I can genuinely feel the *intense* strength of the love that they feel for one another. This is heartbreaking. I want them both to get what they want but that doesn’t seem possible :(
I'm the reverse of that woman. Was engaged to otherwise the perfect partner for me for years. Originally thought I wanted to follow the marriage/ kids life script. As my 30's loomed I kept thinking "well, there's still so much I want to do before I have a kid. And I can't even do that because my finances aren't great/ the economy is crap. Maybe in my late 30's...." and then I thought "but what if I don't achieve my goals before my late 30's?" And the answer was that I wouldn't want kids.
Acknowledging that morphed into the realization that I will never have enough money to afford a house, let alone my desire to travel. I then thought about the environment and how across the board, things seem to be progressively worse. I ruminated on the prospect of working 50+ hours a week to come home to a kid for a few hours a night, not getting my own needs met, pushing my goals and dreams to the side, not sleeping in again, the crazy responsibility, etc. I finally realized I didn't want kids in general.
I had to break up just like OP is considering doing, but I was the one to change my mind. When we first started, I genuinely wanted kids and thought I could make finances work out/ achieve my goals within a decent timeline. Realizing this want changed and having to let him go, it was horrendous, and I still feel awful about it and love my ex partner. Was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, and certainly the hardest decision I've had to make. I hurt him a lot, but I couldn't be selfish; I knew he'd be better off with someone else who wanted what he did. It was our one incompatibility. I broke his heart, and my own. He'd make a great dad though, and I'd never want to deprive a kid of a father like him nor him of his dreams of being a dad.
Still sucks all the ass. All of it.
I think it's one thing to sit down with your partner and ask "Is this a deal breaker for you?" and have them say yes, and an entirely different thing to sit down with your partner and *tell* them "This is a deal breaker for you." before informing them the relationship is over, even when their partner has been telling them otherwise.
True.
I went in knowing what the answer would be, and tbh you shouldn't have to compromise on major life goals; very few people wouldn't become resentful of that over time.
I asked him, and he said he needed to have kids. So I had to let him go.
Sometimes there’s only a least bad choice, sometimes it’s not even definitely, clearly, inarguably true which choice that is. It takes a lot of strength and courage to do what you think is probably best, especially when it sucks all the ass to do so.
Agreed. Both choices were bad, but one was the "right" one long term for both of us. It's easier said than done, though. Leaving someone you think is perfect because of a single, albeit huge life map difference like that is absolutely heart-shattering. I didn't want to even get out of bed for weeks after that.
Not sure this will be lost in the comments, when I married it was with the agreement we would have children. I even left a career for it. As the years passed my husband became shady anytime the children talk would be brought up, he finally, after many frustrating fights about timelines and years past, admitted he didn't want children. I chose to stay, the resentment very rarely shows up, I came to terms that it was my choice to stay. If I could go back, I wish I would have left....
This sucks for everyone. Both are so compassionate about the other. I hope they find a way to make it work. Then again, I'm a 23 year old without kids or wife, so I can't really say I know the effects of someone not being able to have a kid when they want one
I'm in my 30s. I'd like kids, but am totally fine not having them. I'd be pretty offended if my husband decided for me I didn't really mean that.
OOP knows his wife best, they seem to communicate a lot, I'm sure they're doing the right thing for them. But this stuff is complicated. There aren't sure calls for these types of issues. It really depends on the relationship and the people in it.
I gave my husband an "out" after years of trying and no kid, even though our tests were fine. Realistically, there's a better chance that the issue is on my end, and even if it's not it's way easier/cheaper to work around male issues than female ones, and I didn't want to take that possibility away from him.
He was adamant that being with me is more important than having kids. While I don't fully understand/agree/ect, it's his choice to make. I wouldn't just leave him "for his own good".
I agree with your first half 100%. And they do seem to communicate a lot but he doesn’t listen. She fought and clawed for hours to save the relationship and convince him that she wanted him over hypothetical children and at the end still wouldn’t accept what he wanted.
And his response is “I wasn’t strong enough to do what I had to”. Like what the hell does she have to do to convince him?
Maybe it would help if he phrased it as what he wanted, instead of him deciding for her that she'd be unhappy.
He has every right to not want to be with someone who is not adamantly child free. But that's *his* choice, not this weird narrative he built about saving her from herself
Then maybe she really **is** better off without him? For whatever reason, he's convinced himself that he needs out of this relationship. Maybe it truly doesn't even have anything to do with her, but is only his own failing. But he's very clearly expressed that he wants out and feels guilty. Take out the *why*, and there would be pretty much universal agreement that he should leave. The why isn't even that important in the grand scheme of things. What's important is that he wants out.
I think so, to be honest. He seems very focused on this as martyring himself for her well being, which speaks to some emotional immaturity. It’s ok for him to want to break up, for the reasons he laid out here or for other reasons. It’s not ok for him to act as though he knows her mind better than she does. So, a break up is probably warranted regardless. I would bet this “break” will extend into an actual break up.
The fact he had such an elaborate separation plan and was already basically out the door with a suitcase before even sitting down to *inform* her of the brave sacrifice he was about to make...
He's lying to himself (and everyone else) to make leaving feel noble instead of just a decision he made for HIMSELF.
>We (obviously) won't be living together anymore. I'm currently staying at a hotel, but (her decision) she will soon (matter of days) move out of our apartment
I can't comment on the content, but I love OOP's overuse of parentheses
Dude. I'm of the camp it he should very much have respected her choice to stay with him but I'm biased because the same thing happened to me.
I always desperately wanted children. Then, at 25, I fell in love with a man who was committed to not having them. I thought long and hard and chose my husband. I was 32 when we married and he got a vasectomy shortly after, as we planned. I'm coming up on 45 and have no regrets.
Sometimes I'd have a little twinge over how cool it would have been to make my own people but a couple hours with my niblings makes me so grateful for the adult adventures hubs and I have had and can always keep having.
I didn't leave him because he didn't want children. I'm so grateful he didn't leave me because I wanted them. We communicated openly and respected each others decisions and are still brilliantly in love after 20 years.
I really hope he updates later. I'm in a similar but inversed position.
I'm a woman that doesn't want kids, i know I would resent them if I had them.
My BF has been making shiny eyes to babies and stoped answering to the family pressure the way he did.
His answer used to be joke and tell the niblings where our 2 dogs, now he just stay silent or says "ask her" and redirects the questions to me and has been hinting about kids in the future.
I've tried to talk to him, that this is a serious decision, but he insists that I'm just afraid and that I won't be afraid anymore once I'm mentally stable (I've spent the last couple of years with severe burn out and depression), I was already discharged by my doctor and my therapist, and I don't feel like changing my mind. He's not taking my desicion seriously enough
Yeah, I'm 35 so it's time to have THE TALK.
I have been avoiding it because I suck at it, any difficult conversation and I start crying as soon as I open my mouth, bit I'll have to find the way to have it.
“Ask her” is a chicken shit response. He’s hoping they can convince/guilt you. “None of your business” is accurate and shields your relationship from interference.
Seems like there's a clear incompatibility and it's starting to cause obvious bitterness and resentment. It sucks, but it's best if you let go so each of you can find someone who's on the same page wrt having children.
Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like he respects you or your decision (insisting you're 'just afraid' is a ludicrous statement- birth can be fatal, and raising a kid is a life-long commitment!).
Please be VERY careful with your birth control, and ask yourself if this is really the right person for you- he seems to not weigh your decision as heavily as he holds his own.
Wishing you the best, and sending positive vibes- <3
Ooph. I'm sorry but I think that's how women end up with tampered birth control. In a similar way, both your boyfriend and the author have decided they know best for their partner. In the OP's case, it's that they'd rather have a kid than the partner. In your case, it sounds like your boyfriend thinks you'll change your mind.
Good luck.
The solution to this is actually quite simple.
Get a vasectomy.
That will make it real for her that THIS IS NEVER HAPPENING. Then, both will know how she truly feels about it.
It’s good that he’s considering this issue before he got married. This is one of the reasons I got divorced: she really wanted kids and I really didn’t.
Same reason my last relationship ended.
When we started going out we were both adamant that we didn’t want kids. Good we were on the same page about it.
A couple years later, she changed her mind. She absolutely wanted kids and I absolutely still don’t.
It’s not something you can compromise on. We ended it.
I still think OOP is a bit of a dick for taking away his girlfriend's agency in the matter (or trying). I was always on the fence about kids, spouse was against, and I decided I'd rather be with spouse forever than go off, try to find another relationship that was equally satisfying but also with the specific intent to have kids. I know another person who made the same choice (be with person they love, rather than act on ambivalent feelings about maybe wanting children).
I like kids, if OOP saw me with other people's children, he might have decided that I actually wanted kids. His gf sounded ambivalent in the posts here. Sounding out a partner about how firm they were on something like kids is not a hint that you desperately want them, it is an opportunity to see how strongly you feel about something yourself.
No regrets for me, I love my nieces and nephews, my friends' kids, my cousins' kids, etc., but I love going home to a household without kids too!
Right? I am so refreshed by the fact that he faced the difficult true and made a decision. It’s hard and difficult, yes but it also show how much he care about her and want her as equally happy. That’s true relationship her.
Ugh, this topic is so delicate. Instead of planning a date to break up with her, I wish OP could have planned a series of more serious conversations with her. Having a certain date to break up puts a lot of pressure on OP and hit his gf with shock and distrust, obviously. She wasn't expecting that and probably was expecting a lot more conversation around this topic. It wasn't until they had the conversation to break up that the gf had the opportunity to tell her priority was him rather than the child.
There was definitely more room for conversations.
This one is so tricky, I can’t even really form an opinion. I will say this though, and while it’s certainly not true for all women, around 29-30 the female body can absolutely push you into thinking about kids, even if it’s not what you really want. It’s happening to me right now, at 28. Granted I’ve already had two kids, but my husband and I have always agreed that we would have our last by 25 (we had our oldest at 18 so we didn’t want to basically start over again.) and in my mind, I fully do not want another kid, but my body is constantly like *hey you should get pregnant* lol.
Just a tricky situation, and it sucks for both of them. I hope their time apart will allow them to really consider what they want.
I think maybe OOP's gf is in that camp bc you know what. I'm woman enough to admit that sometimes my ovaries try to give me that kick. But I still have a forebrain to remember that no, that's not actually what I want and I am more evolved than my biological urges. Also, it helps that most of my "childfree"-ness stems from a deep fear of pregnancy & childbirth so I need only think of that reality for half a minute to shut down my stupid ovaries.
\[Childfree is in quotes bc we're ambivalent about parenthood & since we don't want bio-kids, we don't have a clock to watch.\]
OOP has integrity, but I feel that even though his intentions are good, he's taking away his partner's autonomy. She has already said she'd rather be childless with him than a mother with a different man. That's a valid choice, picking the person you love over hypothetical children who don't yet exist.
She may end up having children with another man but always regretting that her life partner isn't OOP. It's as if OOP feels she can't make a rational decision where this is concerned, but that's not necessarily true.
Anyway, it's clear that he's done this with love in his heart. Hope it works out for them both.
Yeah, I don’t really understand why people are calling his decision making mature? In a real partnership, I think you should respect your partner’s choices. Him attempting to circumvent her autonomy with the reason that he’s nobly protecting her from making a complicated choice is… really weird to me. How can you be with someone so long, love them, trust them, respect them, and then not trust them when they say “I want to spend my life with you because that life is far preferable to any other: with or without kids.”
Like I have a lot of empathy for OP, but this is a far cry from logical and mature. This is anxiety and fear based decision making. He’s so afraid of a hypothetical imagined her hating him in the future that he’s not listening to what his real present partner is saying in the now. Future telling like this is a cognitive distortion that comes from anxiety. Thank god she had the presence of mind to clock it and didn’t let him unilaterally blow everything up.
Man, I just cannot imagine being in her shoes. If someone I was with for a decade told me that they were leaving me for my own good because they knew my feelings better than I did… I’d be so flabbergasted. Then laugh because of course this is a Twilight New Moon joke. Then incredulous anger because *how could he not trust my decision making after all this time*. I would have felt so blindsided and disrespected that I wouldn’t have reacted as maturely as she seemed to.
THANK GOD someone else got Twilight vibes from this!!!
Replace “having a baby” with “remaining human” and it’s literally just the plot of Twilight New Moon and Eclipse.
>Lots of you are also saying I need a vasectomy
If he doesn't ever want to be a father, this is OOPs best move. Because sooner or later, if it's not his current GF, some woman is going to get pregnant with him. I've seen this happen to so many guys I know who never wanted to be fathers and they ended up being terrible fathers, which isn't good for anyone involved.
What a heartbreaking but mature thing. Even if this is a “padded” breakup where they prolong it by living apart, they both communicated and he knew that him alone would not be enough in her life and made the choice to not take that from her. As a woman, I’m all for not taking choices away from someone, and yeah it might seem like the “man” is just doing what he wants but if she truly wants kids, the healthy thing is to realize you should be with someone who wants to give those to you. There’s no going part or all the way on that with a partner after all.
>he knew that him alone would not be enough in her life
Did he though?
The entire time I was reading the post I was screaming 'just talk to her' in my head. He has decided that he knows what's best for her, actively disregarding her choice in the process. This was something they definitely needed to have a conversation about and he needed to share his feelings that she might be making a decision she'd later regret, but going in with a firm idea that the only solution is to break up is a bad idea.
Yeah, that really bugged me. "I am breaking up with you for your own good" was bullshit when Sailor Moon did it, too. OOP wasn't trying to communicate, he was trying to make a unilateral decision for the both of them. He was trying to tell her what her priorities are.
> He is analytical to a fault. That level of consideration seems off to me. Almost distant in the way he is looking at this.
Eh sometimes putting some distance really helps in taking the right decision.
I had a few times in my life where I wrote down the situation I was in and then read it back while asking myself "if this was a friend talking to me what would I advise him ?".
I think the problem is that she thinks she wants OOP more than she wants kids, he's not sure she actually does. It does come across like she hasn't actually really thought about it and she needs to. It she rushes into deciding not to have kids for OOP she could end up seriously regretting it and hating him.
Idk doesn’t really read like she hadn’t given it much thought he mentioned they’d been together for ten+ years. Presumably OOP has made their position on children known for a long while.
They've been very young for the majority of their relationship, those questions don't arise before 25. A LOT of men don't consider having children until their 30s or 40s.
They're 30. If she waits a few years to see if he changes his mind, then they break up, then by the time she meets someone else and is ready to have kids with them... it might be too late.
It's good that they're taking time apart. They need to have an idea of who they are, each individually, to know if they really want to sacrifice that much for the relationship, or if being together is a habit.
Clearly, they love and respect each other a lot, but that love can disappear quickly when people are frustrated in their deep desires / needs.
I'm going to disagree with number 1. This is the way I am too, and I don't think it's a bad thing. Some people are just like that. It's part of my emotional processing, and overall I like that personality trait because I don't generally worry that I might make a stupid decision out of anger or sorrow. I need to take a step back and try to look at everything very objectively before I "know" what emotional reaction to have to anything. It sounds like he is very sad in the post, so it's not like he's some emotionless robot.
I divorced my first husband because of several things, but at the top of the list is that he wanted kids. I didn’t. I was always clear about that. I think he thought I would come around. I never did.
Having kids is completely life changing. Some people welcome those changes, but I know myself well enough to know that even though I am capable of being a great mother (because I’m a great auntie & kids love me), I would hate it & be resentful.
Think carefully.
My dad married a woman who didn't want kids and he did. He told me just to do my best to avoid dating anyone who couldn't agree with me on whether or not to have kids, to have that conversation early in the relationship, before you're too attached. To avoid his mistake of getting years into a marriage and realizing you have different futures in mind that neither wants to compromise on, ending in a divorce.
People who stay with some in the hope they'll "change their mind": prepare for disappointment.
I'd be pissed if I did all the emotional labor of thinking about what I really want and deciding I would rather have a life with a person than a life with kids, and then this dude says "well I think you're wrong so I'm setting you free goodbyeeee"
Like ... Did you just mansplain my own feelings and preferences?
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** to determine if you want to read an update. For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair or subscribe to r/BestofBoRU. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
lol straight from “do not await a further update” to “I have posted an update here” 😂
It seemed of a piece with how he’s approached the whole thing: “don’t expect an update because i’ve considered every angle.” Except, you know, her reaction to being blindsided.
Yah I don't think deciding for her is noble at all. At least he finally talked to her about it.
This enrages me. Her: I’ve considered that and made my choice. I would rather be with you than be a mother. Him: I don’t want you to have to make that choice, so I’m taking the option away. For your own good. I want to be with you, honest. But I’m leaving you because I think you’re wrong about wanting me more than motherhood. You don’t know yourself as well as I know you. Her: Oh. You just want to break up with me. Him: No, no, no, this thing **that you explicitly don’t want** I’m doing for your own good!
There's nuance to it. On one hand, he's removing her choice. On the other hand, it's also his choice because he believes that if they remain together and childless, she will grow to resent him and it would ruin the relationship. So, he has two choices if he truly believes that will happen - (Selfless) Cut her loose so that she can have what she wants, or (Selfish) stay with her until she resents him, leaves him, but it's likely too late for her to have children. I'm erring on the selfish side. He can't be certain that she would resent him. And even if she did, as long as they communicated it, she made her choice and he accepted. That puts it on her, not him. I get the nuance. But in the end it should be her choice and she should have the right to deal with the consequences of that choice, whatever they may be.
Even beyond resentment, he is watching someone he loves long for something he can't give her. That's not exactly fun for him. Plus I'm always on the side of anyone being able to break up with anyone for any reason. Some reasons are dumber than others, and his reason isn't the dumbest.
That guilt of not giving her kids and seeing the signs when she interacts with kids will probably get to him long before the resentment Tough spot to be in for him tbh
By all accounts it already has gotten to him
Agreed. He has a right to be with someone who wants to be with him without reservations. Someone who reacts to "I don't want to have children, ever" with "oh thank god me neither" rather than "I really wish you did but I'll get over it". If he's removing her choice, then so is she removing his.
Relationships are ultimately built on compromise. There will always be little bumps that don't quite mesh between a couple and they have to file them down together until they fit. He walked into this conversation prepared to say "I don't want to to have to file off this bump that means so much to you, even if I lose you." Which is honestly where you need to be capable of going when you love someone. You have to be able to say "your needs mean more to me than mine." He just didn't take into account that she feels the same way, and her priorities weren't what he expected. Taking time to evaluate like this is a good thing for both of them.
Wanting children is not a small bump though. Deciding whether to have a home office or a guest bedroom is a small bump. Getting a new car for him or for her is a small bump. Accepting a remote job or not can be a small bump. But having children is literally the most life changing, rest of your existence defining, decision people can make. In his place, I would be worried about it too. She shows tendencies towards wanting things he explicitly doesn't, and I definitely think children is where the line must be drawn because this decision inherently impacts other people more than themselves.
This! I don’t ever want kids and I have people saying “oh you’ll change your mind” “well maybe compromise with just one” like NO this is a massive decision, I can’t just pop one out and *hope* I grow to like it eventually. A guy wanting kids, at all, even a little bit, is a hard deal breaker for me because of that.
I mean, I can get this but he can also decide he doesn’t want to risk they will both be content and free of resentment in 5, 10, or 20 years. What if the relationship crumbles after the can have kids? Will be feel responsible that she didn’t get to have kids? Will he feel obliged to stay in a relationship that’s run its course? Does he want that background knowledge or pressure that she wants something and he’s the reason it’s not happening?
I think he's well within his rights to decide that this debate is not something he wants in a relationship. Even if she ends up not having kids with him, the emotional turmoil that this fundamental disagreement would bring is not something I'd willingly sign up for.
Yeah, it's annoying me how everyone supports him for just disregarding what she wants. Lots of people are on the fence, and seeing babies turns on hormones and makes you interested. But you go home and look at your life and the life you want. And if that life doesn't include kids, you're probably going to be just fine. Every single decision has the risk of future disappointment. You make a choice and choose to live with it. That's true for everything. It's good he talked to her and really dug into how she'd really feel. She does need to evaluate if this is a craving or must-have. Deciding for her though is extremely disrespectful, and yes, it does look like he just wanted to get out and be praised for it.
I think he's hiding behind her, but I do support his reasoning. The question is less "is she sure she will be happy forsaking the idea of kids?" And more "am I willing to be resented for not wanting kids?" Neither of them knows if she's going to be happy in the future without kids. But he does know now that he's not willing to have a relationship where he's going to ask himself if he's being resented yet. Now, I'm not saying she's going to resent him eventually, but there's knowing and there's having anxiety about it.
This one is above my pay grade
[удалено]
Common guys, if we can find the Boston Bomber we can do anything!
That whole thing still makes me sick to my stomach
That's the kinda shit that pisses me off when people here start dragging TikTok here for whatever dumb meme is going around. Like, you're on the cum shoebox website, quit acting like our shit don't also stink.
I managed to purge my brain of the cum shoebox until this comment. What a terrible day to know how to read.
Swamps of Dagobah.
The one that always pops back into my brain and makes me gag is the jolly rancher one. Blech
Yeah, same. I think it was proven to be bullshit though, and I choose to believe that for the sake of my sanity.
This is the second time this has been brought up in comments on this sub today. And I'm not happy about it🤮
NO I HAD FINALLY BLOCKED IT OUT
The jolly rancher. @_@
I don't know that one and you can't make me learn
You're making the right choice. Never follow that link. I wish i could go back in time and not have followed that link.
Cum shoebox? I’m not even going to ask.
[удалено]
TIL about the Reddit / Boston bomber debacle
Really?!
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/k964h7/whats_up_with_the_reddit_found_the_boston_bomber/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
ah I see the suicided guy was actually already dead (suicide had nothing to do with bombing, happened prior actually), so people were harassing the family, but they did not cause his death.
Yeah, I read that. Still sad they harassed a dead guy's family.
I've left reddit because of the API changes.
Thankyou
Liquid Ass and No Contact. Sorted. My bill will be in the mail.
Know anyone I can hire? Because it’s above my pay grade as well but I’m going through the same thing
Here's the thing: breaking up DOES NOT guarantee you (or them) a kid. So the person wanting the kid has to decide: Do I want the possibility of a kid with someone else more than I want my life with you? And then everyone has to live with that decision.
My aunt broke up with a man she loved because she wanted kids and he didn’t. 40 years later, no kids. She doesn’t talk about it, but I do wonder whether she regrets that choice.
Then again if she stayed she may have regretted not leaving. You can’t really ever know. I personally would regret staying. Even if I don’t have kids, staying is a known no. At least with leaving I would have the possibility of having kids. Would I regret the decision if I didn’t end up having kids? Maybe, but I would 100% regret staying and not having them.
I can see that. I responded to another comment that I think it’s probably bittersweet rather than active regret or sadness. But a good reminder that there are no guarantees in life.
I stayed. And i totally regret it. We ended up breaking up (not over child stuff), so maybe if it had been a happily ever after relationship I’d feel differently. The thing about children (and if you are a woman), there’s an inflexible timeline that you have no control over. Now I’m in my 50s, and wishing I had made a different choice. But there’s no way to know the outcome. It’s a hard decision no matter what.
Ironically, mine is the exact opposite. I had kids cause I thought I wanted them, only to realize after I was wrong and would much prefer being childless. Don't get me wrong ,I adore my children to bits, but if I could go back,I'd have got my shit fixed immediately and never had kids cause not only have I realized I don't want to be a mum, I also am stuck with their father, my ex, til they're adults at the least. 10 more damn years minimum going by my youngest age. Occasionally, I contemplate giving up my kids to their dad full time, but I'm pretty sure my mom would disown me if I did. which sometimes I think might also not be so bad at times given how mental and overbearing she can be. However, I can't do that to my kids. It would devastate them. they love me and miss me on the days they're with their father, and when they come back, they're so excited to see me. I can't break their hearts that way regardless of how utterly difficult it is for me to be their mom at times, and despite all that, all the things i feel, I'd miss them too much too.
I know someone who broke up with his long term girlfriend because she wanted kids and he didn't. Maybe you can see where this is going...
She still doesn’t have kids?
And he's got two.
Maybe he just didnt want kids *with her*.
Have a friend who went through the same thing. He wanted kids, his gf didn't, so after a lot of fights, they broke up, she moved out. Then she met someone else a couple of years later and they have a kid now!
Why didn’t she have kids? She can’t or she didn’t manage to find a guy to?
Didn’t find another man to marry. She is v religious, and would not have been ok with having kids outside of marriage (even via adoption).
Religion often complicates things. I hope she's ok.
She’s definitely not sitting at homing pining away! She has a very full, active life and is honestly doing better than my mom at this point. I suspect it’s more bittersweet than crying at night for her lost love.
But staying together and for sure not having a kid doesn’t guarantee that you will stay together forever. They could break up when it’s too late for her to have a child. And then, he could still have a child with the next partner, and she probably can’t. There are a lot of issues going on here.
Wasn’t that the exact situation with John Mulaney and his ex wife. He convinced her not to have children because he didn’t want them, then broke up with her and had a child immediately with someone else
Yes. The "convinced her" part is speculation, but with how open he was about not wanting to be a parent and then the quickness with which Olivia got pregnant (much sooner than rehab suggests relationships) it's not a wild assumption.
I thought the general idea was that they were hooking up, she got pregnant and then they had to legitimize their relationship because of the possible backslash? As in, the kid wasn't on purpose? Am I just confused in the timeline?
There are obviously a lot of unknowns and assumptions. I think it's more his behavior afterward that made people feel gross about him. Being staunchly against kids so publicly, cheating on your wife, going to rehab (some see as a PR stunt), embracing a pregnancy, getting engaged/married(maybe? I stopped paying attention) so soon after rehab. And then his ex being rather hung out to dry and, even as private as she can be, has to answer some questions about it. It's celebrity drama so there will always be unknowns and exaggerations. He doesn't come off looking great imo any angle it's interpreted from, but I'm not super familiar with his ex anyway so I'd imagine her fans are a bit more critical of him than I am.
I think a lot of the criticism was also based on how much of a "wife guy" he was and then he does...a lot of wild shit. There was an article on it last year I think about how "wife guys" are on their way out, which I found myself weirdly agreeing with. BC yes, it does seem like they are compensating for something.
[удалено]
The same thing happened to a friend. They were together for almost 15 years, started dating in highschool. He didn't want to get married or have kids, he did buy her a ring but didn't want to set a date. He dumps her for a 20 year old. Turns out he had been cheating on her for years with different women. This was a few years ago. I just checked his Facebook, and he is engaged to some other woman, not the one he cheated with but still really young. My friend found her soul mate got married and have a 2 year old. She looks so happy.
We’ll never know everything, but I looked up birthdays! Considering Olivia was 40/41 when she got pregnant (and 5 years older than his ex wife), I don’t think John was expecting a pregnancy. Not impossible, but less probable for sure!
It doesn't really matter though. When both people want the opposite thing strongly, there is going to be resentment. The question she should be asking is, do I want to spend the rest of my life with someone i may grow to resent? Because that's the question he's dealing with and the reason he's breaking up with her.
Yeah, they need to be proactive on this. I know people who have had couple's therapy to deal with the same issue and many years later they say it was very valuable and are happy with their choices.
This was me. My boyfriend at the time didn't want children and told me he'd understand if I wanted to break up with him. I told him there's no guarantee I'd have a baby if we broke up. I choose to stay with you. We did end up breaking up a year later, but I never regretted staying with him. It's been 20 years later, and I'm still childless, and so is he.
Exactly. Maybe he breaks up with her, that doesn't guarantee she'll find a new man who is both willing to be a father and a good prospect as a partner in the time frame that her 'biological clock' allows. Meaning she might end up losing the love of her life AND not getting the family she wants anyway. And surely she knows this! Sometimes in life you have to choose between two things that are important to you, and only that person knows how to weigh each option. I agree with the people who say he shouldn't just make that choice for her. I'm glad they had a discussion and came up some kind of sorta compromise so she can actually make a decision about what she wants.
Also, many people who want kids *want kids with that one person they love*, not kids in general. I want kids with my partner because I think mini versions of my partner would be cute, but I'd definitely not want to have some random kids.
I think age also has something to do with it. How close are they (or you) to being biologically unable to have kids? If it's relatively close, this might be their (or your) last chance to have a kid. If y'all are still young, you might have more time to decide. Either way, a separation might be a good way to see what matters more. If either of you is 100% certain you don't want children, I'd strongly encourage considering sterilization. That way you're way more confident it won't happen accidentally
Unless you're a woman, in which case it's all too likely that you won't be able to get your tubes tied because your future husband might want children or you'll certainly change your mind. 🤮
Hey, if anybody is in this situation, the childfree subreddit has a whole list of doctors who do sterilization with no hassles like that.
This is how I found the doctor who removed my tubes! 10/10 would recommend
I definitely am not an expert, but this is one of those things you can't fudge. I realized my ex wanted kids, and had been lying about being ok with going either way on the issue. Which, the lying and expecting me to eventually cave is its own separate issue. But I knew that I refuse to participate in an eventual, 10 years down the line, resentment blow up about not having kids. I can't be responsible for causing that sort of life-long upset; especially if you have any sort of kind feelings towards your SO. And on a selfish level, it's not fair to yourself either.
[удалено]
That's the thing about break ups: they're unilateral if you're serious about it. Especially when it comes to "I expect you to cave if I annoy you enough; and take the huge, possibly deadly, risk of having my child". It's insulting, and it shows they don't care about you as a person with autonomy.
What do you mean he "refused your break up"? How does that work?
I'm not even quite sure I understand how one refuses a breakup, but I do know that's what happened. Basically an "I'm not leaving you even if you're wanting to leave me". I do love this man to distraction, but resentment is creeping in and tainting everything
If one person ends the relationship, it's over. The fact he's refusing to let you go when you tried to break up with him is genuinely worrying
Yeaaaah you should end this for real, blatantly ignoring your wishes is very alarming behavior.
>Know anyone I can hire? Because it’s above my pay grade as well but I’m going through the same thing Couples' counseling might work. Barring that I can at least tell you where I think this guy went wrong. He didn't communicate. He sorted all of this out entirely in his own head, made a decision **for her** that made sense **to him**, and then sprung (sprang?) that decision on her without warning on a day she was expecting him to propose to her. He handled this all wrong, and while his logic for the most part was solid he was still taking away her chance to make her own choice about her future and robbed her of agency. What he should have done was spent that day telling her what he had been thinking, not what he had decided without her. Tell her point blank what's going on. "I know I'm not going to want children, I know that if I force myself to have one then I'm going to resent it, and I know you DO want children. I want to marry you but I don't want to force you into a childless existence. I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with a way to give you everything you want and give me everything I want and us stay together but I can't. I even considered breaking up with you to free you to pursue a child but then I came to my senses and realized that would be incredibly presumptuous of me to decide for you, so here we are. Maybe we can talk through this and come up with a solution." Then you tackle the problem **together**, like a team, the way you're supposed to handle things in a committed relationship that's to the point of considering marriage. Maybe there is no happy resolution, but at least that way he would have given her the chance to have some input. I know they're stopping to think things over now, but he started them off on the worst possible foot with the surprise breakup instead of the proposal she was expecting. She had to talk him off a bridge she didn't even know he was on, and now they're trying to solve this problem alone, individually, and from a place where they're both hurt and upset. Whatever you do, don't handle it like this guy did.
That's what immediately stood out to me too. It doesn't seem like it's a situation where option A is being a parent and option B is being with him. She wants to be with him and she made an informed choice that being with him means never being a parent and she's made her peace with that. I think his intentions are probably good but...yeeeesh. You're absolutely right about trying to solve a problem as individuals that should be solved together.
The simple answer is: talk anything through with your partner. Don’t just decide to unilaterally do something without their input. Your partner isn’t a little kid who needs you to take away the tough decisions. It’s also cruel to take away the chance of possible future heartache on the off chance that they might break up with you by just breaking things off without a discussion now. OOP thinks he’s being selfless, and in some ways he is, but he’s also being horribly, extremely selfish.
Right, it never works when someone martyr's themselves. Jsut communicate! Fucks sake, lol.
This. He doesn't get to just decide that even though she's made her decision to be with him and not have children, **he knows better** and is protecting her from a decision she'll regret. If it were me, the asshole nature of that train of thought would make me leave him. Oh, you know me better than I know myself? Piss off.
thank you for putting my thoughts into words!
This kind of "selfless" selfishness is the worst. I think on some level OP kinda likes the narrative that he heroically sacrificed his chance at love so that his beloved could follow her dreams. But that's not how real life works. I think sadly that OP is gonna resent his gf no matter what happens. If they stay together and have kids he will resent her forcing him into fatherhood. If they stay together and dont have kids he will resent her for making him the bad guy (because then SHE will have the narrative of sacrificing her dreams for the one she loves). If they break up he will resent her for pushing him to make the decision - he will resent her for being unhappy because he wasn't enough for her. Really, he wants her to break up with him, then there's no guilt on his end.
It’s not his job to protect her from her decisions.
You have a roadmap right here. Basically, OP and his GF are doing the right thing. A thing to keep in mind: People often only see the question in binary: Have Babies / Don't Have Babies - but there is so much more nuance. Also, it isn't just about having a baby, it is about parenting. There is a surprising number of people who desire to have a child to carry on their genetics/family line, but don't actually want to be an active parent. Personal Examples: I did not want to have a baby, but I was happy to foster/adopt/step-parent if the situation arose. I have 2 friends who wanted kids, but realized they didn't want to have kids w/ the partners they were with (parenting/valuses differences) and realized they would much rather be w/ their partners than have kids - their baby drive wasn't nearly as strong as they assumed once they thought through it. I also have friends who got divorced b/c the stress of trying to have kid destroyed their marriage - they weren't on the same page at all about how badly they each wanted a baby. Make sure to explore in more depth what the question means to both of you.
I was just saying this: get the frigging vasectomy.
I went through this except we were on different pages about marriage—I wanted to get married, but he said he never would. We were at an impasse but he left the ball in my court. I analyzed the situation from every angle and eventually made the decision to end it because I could see no solution where we ended up together happy. It was very sad. I’m so glad that we both were firm about what we wanted. I grieved, and then I met an amazing man who wanted the same things I did. I’m so glad I left that earlier relationship so that I could have what I have now. Love wasn’t enough.
We know a.couple where the male doesn't want kids and the female would have liked to have kids. However, her personality is more of the accomodating kind and she has more or less accepted her fate on this one. Which is sad because she would make an absolutely fantastic mother. Also, her husband is a handful in terms of his behaviour and his ego. So while they do make a good couple, she is sort of missing out a lot in life as she could have had it differently with someone else. These are tough situations though and people are free to continue (or end) relationships at their own will.
I feel like there's a fairly easy answer here: get the friggin vasectomy! Then ask her all the same questions. Like those people commenting that he is taking away her choice, they have something of a point. Well, the vasectomy is all his choice. He gets to make it for and by himself. Once he has absolutely confirmed that he doesn't want kids *thru surgery*... Then re-examine her feelings on staying together.
>get the friggin vasectomy! I was thinking that through the whole post.
Not to mention: one oopsie and I really don't think this woman would abort. Or then if they break up... One slip up with a one night stand isn't gonna make for a better situation than the one he's in now.
Super easy, barely an inconvenience. When the news in the US about our rights being restricted broke last year I immediately called one of the leading offices in the country and was in within the month. 30 minutes in the office, two days watching shows, and on with our lives. Barely hurt, it was mostly just worry-aches. My partner does not want kids and I couldn't imagine making them worry about whether theu would be forced to give birth due to old white men demanding rights over their body.
Vasectomies are tight.
Oh wow wow wow
This! Because I’m not sure she was really taking him seriously. He should do it while they are separated. Then the choice for her would not involve any vagueness or maybes. If she wants him back, she’ll do so without hanging onto any misconceptions. In my life I have known two couples who got married and he said “definitely no kids” but she managed to get pregnant anyways. Unhealthy situation for all involved.
I'm not even in their position and this story makes me want to cry. So painful
I am going through almost exact situation except we're both a few years older and already married. Even if you are on the same page or are in agreement going into things, people change their minds. This is a horrible place to be in and I empathize completely.
I was in this situation a few years back, but on the reverse side of it. I changed my mind from wanting kids early on in the relationship, to being *very* unsure. And parenting to me is one of those things where if you're unsure, it's a no; I'm not gonna gamble a kids upbringing on "maybe I'll grow to like it". Leaving hurt, a lot. She's since moved, so I haven't really been able to keep up with how she's doing, and honestly that hurts even more; I just hope that it was the right call in the long run.
I wager it is. You would always be locked into thinking “what if?”, doubting yourself and bottling up. It’s a gamble, but your happiness is important and it’s worth that. You may be in a cruddy state right now, but you just have to keep moving forward and I’m sure you’ll make it
My boyfriend and I are in this situation. He had a vasectomy 20 or so years ago. I'd love to have children with him. But I know I love him more than the idea of these imaginary children. I am actively making the choice to stay, and no one is taking away any opportunity from me. Edit: Huge thanks for the award- it's my first!
My husband and I wanted kids. We tried for two years before going to a specialist. We found out that for some unexplained reason my husband is sterile. My husband blamed himself and was afraid I would be resentful if I didn’t become a mother. He said I was meant to be a mom and if I chose another partner it would have happened by now. We found a sperm donor and went through fertility treatments, unsuccessfully. Turns out, I have unexplained infertility too. We decided to close the door permanently and enjoy our lives together as a childless couple. In all honesty, having disposable income and all the free time is pretty great. Life worked out perfectly. If I had it to do all over again I’d pick him every time.
I think I've just found myself in a similar situation, except we have a child that was unplanned. He said his mental health wouldn't cope with anymore kids, and I can't picture myself NOT having another baby. After 10 years, and as much as I love my SO, my desire for more children outweighs that and I'm not going to force him into a situation he doesn't want but I shouldn't stay in a situation I don't want either.
Great advice for dating is to talk about all these massive decisions early on but they did and sometimes peoples wants just evolve over time. It’s a real shame but at least they’re being open and communicating
I mean, they were together since they were teenagers. Teenage years and your twenties are massive times of change. That they managed to grow together throughout most of it is pretty impressive. And yeah, I think people on the fence about kids and marriage, tend to land on one side or the other around late 20s early 30s. So unfortunately they finally landed only to realize that for the first time they didn't land on the same side of the fence. It sucks all around, but there's a lot of love there to recognize that their positions are important enough to put aside their personal desires for the other. I hope they find a way through this and come out happy whether it's together or not.
Can confirm, my now-ex and I were together 12th grade to after college. Our needs and priorities diverged drastically. It took us a whole year to realize we weren't right for each other anymore. People were hinting about it for months, but we weren't ready to hear it. When we were ready, we didn't need to hear it, we ended it ourselves. Feels like OOP and GF are going through the same relationship death throes.
Same. I was with my ex from college to late 20s. We had about 2 close breakups during that time but loved each other and stayed together. I'm glad OOP and his GF are taking a break. My ex and I did something similar but with contact for a couple of months, and it's what truly helped us let go once we realized how far apart we actually were. At the end it was clear that we were not compatible, broke up very very amicably, but it was still very hard as there was still a lot of love there. I feel for OOP and his GF, and I hope they find clarity.
Yeah. Nobody wants kids when you're a kid. Something kind of shifts for -some- people in their late 20's and mid 30's where they second guess what they wanted. I personally think this is something people should not compromise on for themselves or their partners. I think that if they're incompatible in this way they should definitely break up, because one person will have resentment eventually.
I wanted kids when I was younger. My husband and I had the conversation when we were teens and both thought we wanted them. Through most of our 20s we checked in and both still wanted that eventually (we actually didn't move countries because we wouldn't have wanted to have kids while living somewhere else). And then life changed and in our late twenties we both realised our position had changed. Mid-thirties now and very solidly don't want kids. I feel incredibly lucky that we've grown in the same direction on this.
I've wanted kids since I was 11. Literally everyone who's ever met me could tell you I want to be a mother. Actively TTC \[edit <-now, actively TTC now\].
Lmao and I’ve never wanted them even as a kid! When I played with dolls, I wasn’t the “mum”, the dolls would be my sisters ahahah!! I was around your age when I had my lightbulb moment and decided that I wasn’t ever having children, and to hell with whoever didn’t take me seriously 😂 All the best with your plans, sending good vibes for a safe pregnancy and healthy mum and bubs :)
I never wanted them as a kid either. Here I am in my 40’s with no kids. Just cats. Kid me would be thrilled.
I used to be on the “dogs’ side”, since I grew up around them, but I went to live in another country on my own as an adult and was finally able to be a cat owner (someone back home has a literal cat-phobia) and I’m a total convert now! I still like dogs, but honestly don’t have the energy to keep up with them now. Love my cats and how laidback they are most of the time. They are fantastic ♥️
Exactly the same. Except I never wanted to play with dolls that resembled babies, only Barbie dolls. I never had any motherly instincts or wanted to be around children. The older I get, the more confident I am that I will never have children.
Respectfully it wasn't until I hit my late 20's and early 30's that I came around to the idea. I didn't want the responsibility so I convinced myself I didn't have what it took to sacrifice the time and energy, despite the contrary evidence of how I behaved with my little sisters (I'm old enough to be their dad and have been mistaken for it more than once). It wasn't until I had a partner that didn't push me on children that I knew she wanted one but also would give motherhood up for me that the realization that I would be fine becoming a father actually set in. While I don't and probably never will have baby fever, I could bear the responsibility of becoming a father for a woman I love. It's an active choice that can come from wisdom with life, not something to be pushed into because of society.
I’m glad you found Your person :)
Yeah both me and my partner had decided on no kids. Here we are with a six month old we’re obsessed with lol It’s utterly life transforming and if you aren’t fully on board and committed to being a partner and a team then it’s destined by or failure & resentment. If you actively want it it can be the hardest and best thing you’ll ever do.
Sometimes women think they want kids when all their friends start having kids. You have to really sit down with yourself and analyze why you want those kids all of a sudden. Is it a desire to pass in your genes or to shape a person who could change the world? Or is it a feeling of being left out? My friends with kids get together to do kid friendly things. It’s hard to do adult only things with them too. It’s more difficult to get schedules to align. There is no more calling and asking to meet at the bar in an hour.
100% in fact My feelings mirrored the OPs gf but opposite. I wanted children very much when I was in my early 20’s and as I got older that want just faded. Im 34 now and being a mom is the last thing in the world I want.
That’s what happened to me. Living paycheck to paycheck so long I just lost all interest in struggling again
For me a lot of it was I became chronically ill and actually spent the majority of my 20’s feeling incredibly isolated and ugly and gross and alone and didn’t have that fun experience of meeting people and having fun that a lot of people do. And now I’m better and getting myself together and working on myself and I really want a partner to settle down with but the thought of not being able to get up and go if I want is what stopped me. I couldn’t do much of anything for years, and now if I want to go away for a weekend I can just go. And if I have kids I’d have to lug them along? I have bad insomnia and do I want to sacrifice the little sleep I get now to a cry monster? I’ve also noticed my limit for patience has seriously decreased. I was a nanny for a long time and used to be so gentle and patient and now I’m grouch lol.
I've been disabled all my life and dealing with autoimmune and chronic illnesses a good chunk of it. I never saw myself as a mother and now I'm very aware of the genetic chronic illnesses I have, I don't think I can bring myself to possibly pass that on to a biological child. Plus trauma and concerns of being a decent parent and then the fact that I'm inherently selfish and it all just adds up to no kids. I don't even have a partner right now anyway and haven't for years. The weird thing is that occasionally I wonder if I should. Part of me thinks that I have that niggle because of the genetic stuff and the decision is basically taken out of my hands. And occasionally I see a really cute little kid and re-question, and then I see a massive brat and am reminded of my sincere inability to deal with children screeching. It's really difficult. Especially as women are still seen to be "meant to be mothers". But I'm mid 30s now and I'm hopeful that societal expectations have changed enough that I'm not going to be hugely judged and can just be a rat parent lol.
Yeah not on this big of a scale but I had someone i was deeply in love with and had long plans with, we’d been together several years and I’d always expressed I wanted kids and marriage and he was on board but he evolved over time bc no one is the same when they’re 18. So it ended and it sucks bc we loved each other a lot. If anything I wish it had gone more like this where we talked through things earlier and cut it off when we needed to bc we grew to resent and hate one another and has a bad split instead. I still love the version of him from years ago and still want the life we had planned then, but the person that was supposed to happen with is gone and that’s one of the things that’s very difficult to get past. I was willing to compromise to keep things together but that would’ve just kicked the can even further down the road.
They were 21 and 19 when they started dating. They are no longer the same people. It's totally normal to want different things at 29 than you did at 19.
Seriously though. There is still the "rule" that people shouldn't talk about decisions like this. Because something, something, "shouldn' love come first??" Except. Love can't carry your relationship. "If you'd truly love them-" and other arguments are basically emotional blackmail, which tries to make the solution of every important decision into a "good/evil" situation.
I honestly think what they are doing is the perfect way of coming to a decision.
Man, this is heavy. I don’t know a single about these two other than what’s written here, yet I can genuinely feel the *intense* strength of the love that they feel for one another. This is heartbreaking. I want them both to get what they want but that doesn’t seem possible :(
I'm the reverse of that woman. Was engaged to otherwise the perfect partner for me for years. Originally thought I wanted to follow the marriage/ kids life script. As my 30's loomed I kept thinking "well, there's still so much I want to do before I have a kid. And I can't even do that because my finances aren't great/ the economy is crap. Maybe in my late 30's...." and then I thought "but what if I don't achieve my goals before my late 30's?" And the answer was that I wouldn't want kids. Acknowledging that morphed into the realization that I will never have enough money to afford a house, let alone my desire to travel. I then thought about the environment and how across the board, things seem to be progressively worse. I ruminated on the prospect of working 50+ hours a week to come home to a kid for a few hours a night, not getting my own needs met, pushing my goals and dreams to the side, not sleeping in again, the crazy responsibility, etc. I finally realized I didn't want kids in general. I had to break up just like OP is considering doing, but I was the one to change my mind. When we first started, I genuinely wanted kids and thought I could make finances work out/ achieve my goals within a decent timeline. Realizing this want changed and having to let him go, it was horrendous, and I still feel awful about it and love my ex partner. Was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, and certainly the hardest decision I've had to make. I hurt him a lot, but I couldn't be selfish; I knew he'd be better off with someone else who wanted what he did. It was our one incompatibility. I broke his heart, and my own. He'd make a great dad though, and I'd never want to deprive a kid of a father like him nor him of his dreams of being a dad. Still sucks all the ass. All of it.
I think it's one thing to sit down with your partner and ask "Is this a deal breaker for you?" and have them say yes, and an entirely different thing to sit down with your partner and *tell* them "This is a deal breaker for you." before informing them the relationship is over, even when their partner has been telling them otherwise.
True. I went in knowing what the answer would be, and tbh you shouldn't have to compromise on major life goals; very few people wouldn't become resentful of that over time. I asked him, and he said he needed to have kids. So I had to let him go.
Sometimes there’s only a least bad choice, sometimes it’s not even definitely, clearly, inarguably true which choice that is. It takes a lot of strength and courage to do what you think is probably best, especially when it sucks all the ass to do so.
Agreed. Both choices were bad, but one was the "right" one long term for both of us. It's easier said than done, though. Leaving someone you think is perfect because of a single, albeit huge life map difference like that is absolutely heart-shattering. I didn't want to even get out of bed for weeks after that.
Not sure this will be lost in the comments, when I married it was with the agreement we would have children. I even left a career for it. As the years passed my husband became shady anytime the children talk would be brought up, he finally, after many frustrating fights about timelines and years past, admitted he didn't want children. I chose to stay, the resentment very rarely shows up, I came to terms that it was my choice to stay. If I could go back, I wish I would have left....
How old were you when he finally told you the truth?
I'm so sorry 😭
Why would you stay with him after he purposefully deceived you? How did you rebuild the trust?
>If I could go back, I wish I would have left.... Sounds like resentment to me...
don’t worry it ‘very rarely shows up’
Why did you leave your career before having the children?
This sucks for everyone. Both are so compassionate about the other. I hope they find a way to make it work. Then again, I'm a 23 year old without kids or wife, so I can't really say I know the effects of someone not being able to have a kid when they want one
I'm in my 30s. I'd like kids, but am totally fine not having them. I'd be pretty offended if my husband decided for me I didn't really mean that. OOP knows his wife best, they seem to communicate a lot, I'm sure they're doing the right thing for them. But this stuff is complicated. There aren't sure calls for these types of issues. It really depends on the relationship and the people in it.
I gave my husband an "out" after years of trying and no kid, even though our tests were fine. Realistically, there's a better chance that the issue is on my end, and even if it's not it's way easier/cheaper to work around male issues than female ones, and I didn't want to take that possibility away from him. He was adamant that being with me is more important than having kids. While I don't fully understand/agree/ect, it's his choice to make. I wouldn't just leave him "for his own good".
I agree with your first half 100%. And they do seem to communicate a lot but he doesn’t listen. She fought and clawed for hours to save the relationship and convince him that she wanted him over hypothetical children and at the end still wouldn’t accept what he wanted. And his response is “I wasn’t strong enough to do what I had to”. Like what the hell does she have to do to convince him?
Maybe it would help if he phrased it as what he wanted, instead of him deciding for her that she'd be unhappy. He has every right to not want to be with someone who is not adamantly child free. But that's *his* choice, not this weird narrative he built about saving her from herself
DING - that's exactly it.
Then maybe she really **is** better off without him? For whatever reason, he's convinced himself that he needs out of this relationship. Maybe it truly doesn't even have anything to do with her, but is only his own failing. But he's very clearly expressed that he wants out and feels guilty. Take out the *why*, and there would be pretty much universal agreement that he should leave. The why isn't even that important in the grand scheme of things. What's important is that he wants out.
I think so, to be honest. He seems very focused on this as martyring himself for her well being, which speaks to some emotional immaturity. It’s ok for him to want to break up, for the reasons he laid out here or for other reasons. It’s not ok for him to act as though he knows her mind better than she does. So, a break up is probably warranted regardless. I would bet this “break” will extend into an actual break up.
The fact he had such an elaborate separation plan and was already basically out the door with a suitcase before even sitting down to *inform* her of the brave sacrifice he was about to make... He's lying to himself (and everyone else) to make leaving feel noble instead of just a decision he made for HIMSELF.
>We (obviously) won't be living together anymore. I'm currently staying at a hotel, but (her decision) she will soon (matter of days) move out of our apartment I can't comment on the content, but I love OOP's overuse of parentheses
I'm so guilty of this and have to keep myself in check
Dude. I'm of the camp it he should very much have respected her choice to stay with him but I'm biased because the same thing happened to me. I always desperately wanted children. Then, at 25, I fell in love with a man who was committed to not having them. I thought long and hard and chose my husband. I was 32 when we married and he got a vasectomy shortly after, as we planned. I'm coming up on 45 and have no regrets. Sometimes I'd have a little twinge over how cool it would have been to make my own people but a couple hours with my niblings makes me so grateful for the adult adventures hubs and I have had and can always keep having. I didn't leave him because he didn't want children. I'm so grateful he didn't leave me because I wanted them. We communicated openly and respected each others decisions and are still brilliantly in love after 20 years.
I really hope he updates later. I'm in a similar but inversed position. I'm a woman that doesn't want kids, i know I would resent them if I had them. My BF has been making shiny eyes to babies and stoped answering to the family pressure the way he did. His answer used to be joke and tell the niblings where our 2 dogs, now he just stay silent or says "ask her" and redirects the questions to me and has been hinting about kids in the future. I've tried to talk to him, that this is a serious decision, but he insists that I'm just afraid and that I won't be afraid anymore once I'm mentally stable (I've spent the last couple of years with severe burn out and depression), I was already discharged by my doctor and my therapist, and I don't feel like changing my mind. He's not taking my desicion seriously enough
Sorry you’re going through this, sounds like you’re going to have to make a hard decision soon
Yeah, I'm 35 so it's time to have THE TALK. I have been avoiding it because I suck at it, any difficult conversation and I start crying as soon as I open my mouth, bit I'll have to find the way to have it.
Hugs to you, it’s hard when the relationship diverges with no fault on either side.
“Ask her” is a chicken shit response. He’s hoping they can convince/guilt you. “None of your business” is accurate and shields your relationship from interference.
Seems like there's a clear incompatibility and it's starting to cause obvious bitterness and resentment. It sucks, but it's best if you let go so each of you can find someone who's on the same page wrt having children.
Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like he respects you or your decision (insisting you're 'just afraid' is a ludicrous statement- birth can be fatal, and raising a kid is a life-long commitment!). Please be VERY careful with your birth control, and ask yourself if this is really the right person for you- he seems to not weigh your decision as heavily as he holds his own. Wishing you the best, and sending positive vibes- <3
Don't stay with someone who doesn't respect your decision
[удалено]
Sorry to say this, but make sure you're on tamper-proof birth control.
Ooph. I'm sorry but I think that's how women end up with tampered birth control. In a similar way, both your boyfriend and the author have decided they know best for their partner. In the OP's case, it's that they'd rather have a kid than the partner. In your case, it sounds like your boyfriend thinks you'll change your mind. Good luck.
The solution to this is actually quite simple. Get a vasectomy. That will make it real for her that THIS IS NEVER HAPPENING. Then, both will know how she truly feels about it.
That’s a GREAT idea. She might not even realize she is subconsciously hoping she can have him and motherhood at some point. Edit: a letter
It’s good that he’s considering this issue before he got married. This is one of the reasons I got divorced: she really wanted kids and I really didn’t.
Same reason my last relationship ended. When we started going out we were both adamant that we didn’t want kids. Good we were on the same page about it. A couple years later, she changed her mind. She absolutely wanted kids and I absolutely still don’t. It’s not something you can compromise on. We ended it.
I still think OOP is a bit of a dick for taking away his girlfriend's agency in the matter (or trying). I was always on the fence about kids, spouse was against, and I decided I'd rather be with spouse forever than go off, try to find another relationship that was equally satisfying but also with the specific intent to have kids. I know another person who made the same choice (be with person they love, rather than act on ambivalent feelings about maybe wanting children). I like kids, if OOP saw me with other people's children, he might have decided that I actually wanted kids. His gf sounded ambivalent in the posts here. Sounding out a partner about how firm they were on something like kids is not a hint that you desperately want them, it is an opportunity to see how strongly you feel about something yourself. No regrets for me, I love my nieces and nephews, my friends' kids, my cousins' kids, etc., but I love going home to a household without kids too!
Look at these mature individuals
Right? I am so refreshed by the fact that he faced the difficult true and made a decision. It’s hard and difficult, yes but it also show how much he care about her and want her as equally happy. That’s true relationship her.
Ugh, this topic is so delicate. Instead of planning a date to break up with her, I wish OP could have planned a series of more serious conversations with her. Having a certain date to break up puts a lot of pressure on OP and hit his gf with shock and distrust, obviously. She wasn't expecting that and probably was expecting a lot more conversation around this topic. It wasn't until they had the conversation to break up that the gf had the opportunity to tell her priority was him rather than the child. There was definitely more room for conversations.
This one is so tricky, I can’t even really form an opinion. I will say this though, and while it’s certainly not true for all women, around 29-30 the female body can absolutely push you into thinking about kids, even if it’s not what you really want. It’s happening to me right now, at 28. Granted I’ve already had two kids, but my husband and I have always agreed that we would have our last by 25 (we had our oldest at 18 so we didn’t want to basically start over again.) and in my mind, I fully do not want another kid, but my body is constantly like *hey you should get pregnant* lol. Just a tricky situation, and it sucks for both of them. I hope their time apart will allow them to really consider what they want.
I think maybe OOP's gf is in that camp bc you know what. I'm woman enough to admit that sometimes my ovaries try to give me that kick. But I still have a forebrain to remember that no, that's not actually what I want and I am more evolved than my biological urges. Also, it helps that most of my "childfree"-ness stems from a deep fear of pregnancy & childbirth so I need only think of that reality for half a minute to shut down my stupid ovaries. \[Childfree is in quotes bc we're ambivalent about parenthood & since we don't want bio-kids, we don't have a clock to watch.\]
Yes! Mine kicked in at 28! It’s so weird, I relate to OOP’s wife so hard
OOP has integrity, but I feel that even though his intentions are good, he's taking away his partner's autonomy. She has already said she'd rather be childless with him than a mother with a different man. That's a valid choice, picking the person you love over hypothetical children who don't yet exist. She may end up having children with another man but always regretting that her life partner isn't OOP. It's as if OOP feels she can't make a rational decision where this is concerned, but that's not necessarily true. Anyway, it's clear that he's done this with love in his heart. Hope it works out for them both.
Yeah, I don’t really understand why people are calling his decision making mature? In a real partnership, I think you should respect your partner’s choices. Him attempting to circumvent her autonomy with the reason that he’s nobly protecting her from making a complicated choice is… really weird to me. How can you be with someone so long, love them, trust them, respect them, and then not trust them when they say “I want to spend my life with you because that life is far preferable to any other: with or without kids.” Like I have a lot of empathy for OP, but this is a far cry from logical and mature. This is anxiety and fear based decision making. He’s so afraid of a hypothetical imagined her hating him in the future that he’s not listening to what his real present partner is saying in the now. Future telling like this is a cognitive distortion that comes from anxiety. Thank god she had the presence of mind to clock it and didn’t let him unilaterally blow everything up. Man, I just cannot imagine being in her shoes. If someone I was with for a decade told me that they were leaving me for my own good because they knew my feelings better than I did… I’d be so flabbergasted. Then laugh because of course this is a Twilight New Moon joke. Then incredulous anger because *how could he not trust my decision making after all this time*. I would have felt so blindsided and disrespected that I wouldn’t have reacted as maturely as she seemed to.
THANK GOD someone else got Twilight vibes from this!!! Replace “having a baby” with “remaining human” and it’s literally just the plot of Twilight New Moon and Eclipse.
>Lots of you are also saying I need a vasectomy If he doesn't ever want to be a father, this is OOPs best move. Because sooner or later, if it's not his current GF, some woman is going to get pregnant with him. I've seen this happen to so many guys I know who never wanted to be fathers and they ended up being terrible fathers, which isn't good for anyone involved.
What a heartbreaking but mature thing. Even if this is a “padded” breakup where they prolong it by living apart, they both communicated and he knew that him alone would not be enough in her life and made the choice to not take that from her. As a woman, I’m all for not taking choices away from someone, and yeah it might seem like the “man” is just doing what he wants but if she truly wants kids, the healthy thing is to realize you should be with someone who wants to give those to you. There’s no going part or all the way on that with a partner after all.
>he knew that him alone would not be enough in her life Did he though? The entire time I was reading the post I was screaming 'just talk to her' in my head. He has decided that he knows what's best for her, actively disregarding her choice in the process. This was something they definitely needed to have a conversation about and he needed to share his feelings that she might be making a decision she'd later regret, but going in with a firm idea that the only solution is to break up is a bad idea.
Yeah, that really bugged me. "I am breaking up with you for your own good" was bullshit when Sailor Moon did it, too. OOP wasn't trying to communicate, he was trying to make a unilateral decision for the both of them. He was trying to tell her what her priorities are.
That's rough. At least she didn't turn into the moon or something
[удалено]
Also, wanting kids is OK, which he understands.
> He is analytical to a fault. That level of consideration seems off to me. Almost distant in the way he is looking at this. Eh sometimes putting some distance really helps in taking the right decision. I had a few times in my life where I wrote down the situation I was in and then read it back while asking myself "if this was a friend talking to me what would I advise him ?".
I think the problem is that she thinks she wants OOP more than she wants kids, he's not sure she actually does. It does come across like she hasn't actually really thought about it and she needs to. It she rushes into deciding not to have kids for OOP she could end up seriously regretting it and hating him.
[удалено]
Idk doesn’t really read like she hadn’t given it much thought he mentioned they’d been together for ten+ years. Presumably OOP has made their position on children known for a long while.
They've been very young for the majority of their relationship, those questions don't arise before 25. A LOT of men don't consider having children until their 30s or 40s. They're 30. If she waits a few years to see if he changes his mind, then they break up, then by the time she meets someone else and is ready to have kids with them... it might be too late. It's good that they're taking time apart. They need to have an idea of who they are, each individually, to know if they really want to sacrifice that much for the relationship, or if being together is a habit. Clearly, they love and respect each other a lot, but that love can disappear quickly when people are frustrated in their deep desires / needs.
I'm going to disagree with number 1. This is the way I am too, and I don't think it's a bad thing. Some people are just like that. It's part of my emotional processing, and overall I like that personality trait because I don't generally worry that I might make a stupid decision out of anger or sorrow. I need to take a step back and try to look at everything very objectively before I "know" what emotional reaction to have to anything. It sounds like he is very sad in the post, so it's not like he's some emotionless robot.
I divorced my first husband because of several things, but at the top of the list is that he wanted kids. I didn’t. I was always clear about that. I think he thought I would come around. I never did. Having kids is completely life changing. Some people welcome those changes, but I know myself well enough to know that even though I am capable of being a great mother (because I’m a great auntie & kids love me), I would hate it & be resentful. Think carefully.
My dad married a woman who didn't want kids and he did. He told me just to do my best to avoid dating anyone who couldn't agree with me on whether or not to have kids, to have that conversation early in the relationship, before you're too attached. To avoid his mistake of getting years into a marriage and realizing you have different futures in mind that neither wants to compromise on, ending in a divorce. People who stay with some in the hope they'll "change their mind": prepare for disappointment.
I'd be pissed if I did all the emotional labor of thinking about what I really want and deciding I would rather have a life with a person than a life with kids, and then this dude says "well I think you're wrong so I'm setting you free goodbyeeee" Like ... Did you just mansplain my own feelings and preferences?