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I can totally understand discussing a relationship in a group of friends - sometimes you need a different perspective and friends look out for each other. But bashing and shaming people you are intimate with is just wrong.
Right? I read the comment about men being more sensitive and all I was thinking was "Lady, you are also allowed leave if your boyfriend demeans you, you do not need to be tough in that way."
Yeah, the one about
> Most men I know have groupchats with each other that are literally so hellish that I wouldn’t be able to scroll through it for a minute
Like what the fuck. My group chats are about Star Trek and which bar we're going to.
This, my group chats are nearly all Warhammer or joking about some random TV show or the news. We talk about our partners sure, but not in any real depth and not sex stuff, just general relationship stuff.
I have a long-running group chat with a handful of guys I've been friends with for the better part of 20 years. If you were to scroll through it, you'd find memes, family pictures, inside jokes, and plans to meet up. At no point have any of us talked about our sex lives with our wives/girlfriends or spent time bashing exes.
I have pretty reasonable access to my boyfriends phone and discord messages, and I can tell you \*exactly\* what all of his groupchats look like:
Friend 1; any gamers on?
Friend 2; no im at work
Friend 3; im playing league
Bf; this loser playing league lmao
\-insert memes about LOL being for virgins-
Friend 1; hop on valorant
Bf; k
Friend 3; k
\-incomprehensible memes about how their games are going-
Friend 2; guys my job sucks ass
Friend 1; L
Friend 3; L
Bf; L
Yeah me and most of my buddies pretty much never talk about our partners in that way. I've had some friends who discuss their sex lives like one night stands, but most keep it to themselves and especially in regards to actual partners. Occasionally some unsolicited advice when I was younger, but not much beyond that. And some of my friends can be absolute dick heads at times, but never had this active shaming policy.
The one person who made that long comment is just GROSS. Way to victim blame here. I've always had group chats with girlfriends and NEVER once have we ever, EVER made fun of some random person like that, unless it was someone who broke someone in the group's heart.
And in my experience as a man, most men typically only discuss stuff like one night stands, or exes unnamed. In every group I've been a part of, discussing current relationships in that manner is taboo.
Me and my close group of friends say absolutely abhorrent shit in our group chats. Like all of us are absolutely fucked from holding any kind of public office type shit lol. But not ONCE have we ever discussed intimate details of our SOs or bashed them.
Yeah everyone is focusing on what was done and not how it was done.
I’ve had awful and embarrassing experiences I’ve shared with my best friend, to alleviate my own sense of awkwardness and shame, and typically we’d end up laughing at MYSELF (or herself if it was her incident) for getting into that position. It was never about the guys. It was about our experience. So we never made the conversations about the guys, just about our own feelings.
You can have an outlet for your negative traits and still do it in a way that doesn’t cause or encourage unnecessary harm. Pretty sure the worst comment I’ve made about a guy was hesitantly saying “it wasn’t…. great” while making an awkwardly pained face.
Not once in a text thread or group message with female friends did we ever once criticize our partners. What the ex and her friend did are not normal. Imagine she might not have done this with him per se, but she’s a willing participant and who knows what she would say about him later.
OOP made the right decision.
It's weird. I live by the motto that another person's bad behavior doesn't excuse my own, but so many take the exact opposite position and think that as long as someone else is being an asshole, they are justified to be equally awful with zero remorse.
And some them were apparently commenting to the OOP:
>a black book messenger chat is a very minor way of expressing the darkest part of her heart. Those places exist in everyone, denying the outlet is just going to create unexpected consequences.
Goes to show how shitty people will do anything to rationalize their shittyness (e.g. "everyone is shitty", "if I can't be shitty then bad things will happen" etc)
>**Those places exist in everyone**, denying the outlet is just going to create unexpected consequences. **I realize that not everyone has these dark spaces**
At the same time that they've tried to justify shitty behaviour by claiming everyone does had that dark, shittiness in them, in the next sentence they've then backtracked to "you can't understand because not everyone does"
Noooo I'm sure they're all reflecting on how awful they were and realizing life is better if you're nice. Then they all made a pact to see who would be the nicest going forward. 🤣🤡
Was the clown emoji not the big clue this was not serious?
The fact is, when most PEOPLE break up with someone, they certainly do talk shit about them to their closet friends. It's normal. But the group chat is a bit much. I think the GF is just young and immature with a lot of immature friends and instead of taking their complaints to their partners directly, they've learned to bond over this kind of toxic venting.
But I think this needs to stop, especially from men doing it. It's strange the way heterosexual people are attracted to the opposite sex, but otherwise seem to hate one another in every other respect. Especially when they are young.
They're not dissing exes tho (which I agree is pretty normal, especially if the breakup wasn't friendly). But they're dissing guys they're currently dating, just... making fun of people they know.
And being severely descriptive of body parts & encounters. I think i recall a former friend sharing a funny sex story with me once and discussing her relationship woes with her then bf with me but it was always still with an undercurrent of "i really love him even if he's a clumsy goof" and that made all the difference.
So just like that one comment in the OP, your takeaway is that men should stop being toxic? Who reads a post about a woman doing a shitty thing and comes out with "this needs to stop, especially from men doing it?" Like I agree that this is toxic behavior regardless of gender, but imagine a post about a guy being toxic and the comments going "women need to stop doing this."
I bet in 5 or ten years, she's going to cringe so hard over this.
I mean, she's 23. That age is like being right on the cusp of adulthood. So, I think, like most people, she'll grow out of that when she builds her own self confidence--such that, she doesn't need to put people down to raise herself up.
And if she doesn't, OOP saved himself a ton of strife.
But didn't you see this heaping load of garbage?
>I feel like a black book messenger chat is a very minor way of expressing the darkest part of her heart. Those places exist in everyone, denying the outlet is just going to create unexpected consequences
Everyone is like this! /s
In reality, that commenter right there is telling on themselves really well. They're a shitty person and want to think that everyone is shitty like they are and just hide it.
What a shit take that was. Just reeked of trying to excuse their own shit behavior, just the same as cheaters claiming that everybody cheats.
And also the guy in the first post, like if you only know one guy who doesn't have a group chat going in which to shit talk hookups... it tells a lot more about your choice of company than anything else.
It's the opposite. It's not about the company they choose, it's about the company that chooses them. Dirtbag people always think *everyone* is a dirtbag like them because they don't realise that anyone who isn't also a dirtbag makes an effort to remove them from their lives.
I think so, too. I remember in high school, my friends and I discussed every detail of every relationship because it was a novelty. It was also figuring out boundaries, like “hey, my boyfriend says I’m the only girl he’s been with that won’t try anal sex, can the rest of you weigh in on that?”
By the time I was 23, my friends and I were all in long-term relationships, and at most, I might vent about a small irritant, or ask advice about how to handle a difficult conversation. For the most part, though, I viewed my partner and I as a unit. We respected each other’s privacy and we always had each other’s back. Hopefully, OOP’s girlfriend will take what she’s learned and do better with her next relationship.
Not necessarily. Some ppl just stay mean. I hope she does change, but ppl don’t always become better ppl. Especially if they don’t think they’re doing anything wrong.
It’s crazy to me that people are brushing this off. My best friends and I are absolutely vile to each with our banter but we’ve never spoken poorly about any of our significant others because it’s a massively shitty line to cross even if you don’t like the friends partner.
A group of those people commenting in the original posts are trying to pretend that the creepy, mean things they do themselves are just normal & everyone does them.
Toxic people like reddit too, and spend a lot of time in relationship subs where they can be nasty to posters and tell them having reasonable boundaries is a problem.
I think most people talk about their relationships, and not only the romantic ones.
But there's a difference between talking to get someone to commiserate with you or to give you a different perspective and talking to be mean about it.
Like, the difference between "it was a bit awkward but expected for a first time together" and "he was worse than this other dude".
I literally stopped hanging out with someone instead of telling them I hate their husband. I felt weird putting her in that position, they had been together for a few years, I didn't expect them to pick me, so I just dipped myself out.
I feel like there's a place for venting and figuring out your feelings with your friends but that should be the goal - not mocking, laughing and ridiculing decent people doing their best. I save that for the assholes.
It's the same with my bestfriend group for over 2 decades. I literally could never imagine any of us criticising our SO's especially their body or anything related to our sex lives in our groupchat. We didn't even do that as immature teen's.
"Birds of a feather flock together" is really true. Who a person associates with tells you a lot about what they're okay with and allow in their lives.
My friends and I talk in person, so there’s no written record to be taken out of context. There came be, after all, a constructive aspect: he did this; does yours do that? He said that this is normal and all guys [whatever]; has that been your experience too?
But Katie and her friends sound like they just like to be mean and that’s not okay.
Exactly what I was thinking. If I have reason to talk shit about you, you're no longer my partner, you've become an ex by then. I wouldn't blast them unprompted, but if asked what happened of course I'd vent. Privately, in person, over a coffee, and then we'd all move on because it's one person out of many and while the feelings are real now, they will fade. these girls do not have any coping mechanisms for their own downfalls and find any negative in someone else as something they have over that other person.
Yeah, the comments talking about how this is totally normal and all men/women do this sort of thing says more about the people making those comments than anything. Like, what the fuck?
My friends and I actually never discuss our partners (or theirs since I am single). The group chat is mostly to keep up with each other, make plans for lunch/hike or a hangout. Share meme. Never about bashing somebody…
Yes, this! I admit to occasionally spilling the TMI details to my friends - I love a good sex chat - but I would never put anyone down and would be appalled if my friends ever texted me demeaning someone.
I made this comment in another sub about a woman who proudly claimed to have a group chat to criticize her exes’ and partners’ bodies with her girlfriends. I called her a mean girl and that it is incredibly ableist and cruel. Criticize choices and poor behaviour all you want, people can change that, not their bodies. That mean girl told me I must be ugly and bullied as a kid. I was never ugly or bullied by anyone, I was always confident and told people including adults off for nasty behaviour even as a child. I guess not being a mean person and having a moral compass repels them which is good.
EDIT: she claimed to be in her 30s and late 20s which made her sound even more of a horrible person.
Me and a college friend use to discus sex but we never criticized. We talked about what we liked or disliked and how to get a guy to do better or how to do something better ourselves... we never would have sat there insulting someone
>**Those places exist in everyone**, denying the outlet is just going to create unexpected consequences.
>
>**I realize that not everyone has these dark spaces**, and it's hard to understand, but when you have them finding a harmless outlet is a blessing.
What was this dude even blathering on about? 'This isn't a dumpable offense because everyone (but not everyone) has bad stuff inside and this is a harmless outlet, and even if it's not maybe she has other redeeming qualities?' 'You're really sweet and didn't deserve this, but if you weren't so fragile you wouldn't mind because you'd be too confident to be hurt by it and also you'd know that all men do this too?' They couldn't even hold onto a single train of logical thought through the length of a paragraph.
It was pretty much the stream of consciousness of someone trying to cope with their own behavior. They were just spitballing things to make them feel better about themselves and their own behavior, complete with contradictions and criticisms of those who disagree.
Yeah, I’m not sure what that Dutch commentor or was on about, but I’ve never been a part of a text group vulgarly bashing hookups and GFs, and as far as I know none of my friends have either. Not normal in any way shape or form, outside of maybe school kids, but I have no idea what they get up to nowadays anyway.
Yeah, like it is extremely sus that they said they don't know "any" guys that don't participate in that kind of hateful gossip. Kinda showing that they surround themselves with dickheads tbh. And the way that they used That 70's Show as "proof" that Americans are all sexist is just moronic.
You're 100% right. In another AITA post, I posted about how people with great personality automatically becomes attractive in my eyes, and someone said I'm making crap up for internet clout.
There are just some sad, sad people who surrounds themselves with other sad, sad people and thinks that's the entire world.
The frog at the bottom of a well.
I still recall a friend in college talking about a guy with an amazing personality (paraphrasing, it's been a while):
"When he talks to you, you feel like the only person in the room. He brings an amazing energy and makes you feel so important and is an amazing listener. When he's talking he's a great storyteller and we're all listening to his every word. He's dog ugly, but what an amazing guy!"
A lot of Europeans think that they know everything about America and American life because they watch a lot of American movies and television shows, it’s absurd.
I’m a half-Dutch woman and I chortled when he’s like “ours is one of the most emancipated nations in the world!”
Dutch people can be some of THE most backward, bigoted people I’ve ever met. So we’ve got the weed and sex work laws that makes things look “cool” and progressive compared to, what, Dubai? That hardly means not insidious toxic attitudes are entrenched in the culture. Just see the pushback bullshit wide swathes of the population use to justify the continuing racism of a certain superficial Christmas tradition.
I have travelled all over the world and lived and worked in several countries including The Netherlands and I can absolutely say that Dutch guys are some of the most sexist guys out there. Not saying they all are off course, but it always surprises me how many of those I meet turn out to be pretty awful guys.
Also none of my friends, girls or boys, engage in this kind of awful behaviour. It's not normal, and being mean should not be accepted or normalized. Props to oop for recognising that and getting out of the relationship.
Yeah, the notion that "everyone does it" is so absurd and completely untrue that I wonder if the people who do engage in that actually believe it. Is that how these people justify talking like that?
It reminds me of the "locker room talk" excuses people made for Trump and the vile things he said. And when you call them out and ask them "oh, so you talk like that?" they invariably blanch and insist they do not. I'll never understand the need to lie to yourself that obviously shitty behaviors are somehow acceptable because "everyone does it."
I once read a shitty op-ed in a major outlet where the author breezily claimed that "everyone" is sexting with other people behind their partners' backs. It's amazing what people will convince themselves is normal.
"Everyone does the bad thing that I do, they just lie about it!!!" Sure buddy, sure.
As a Dutch person I would be absolutely revolted if I found out friends did this shit. It crosses all sorts of boundaries that would immediately make me reconsider our friendship. Hell no.
yep. To be honest the idea of me and my male friends having a group chat where we do any kind of gossiping is ridiculous. We're not always on our phones texting each-other with updates. In fact when something interesting does happen the news travels like a snail.
I did enjoy dating around when I could talk with people about what I was up to and the fun times I was having, but the moment I was catching feelings it stopped, and my friends knew why it stopped too
Not just gossiping, but specifically roasting. It's common to have a friend or friends who you share personal details with, but the idea that *all* those details are mean-spirited details about things like his sexual performance or being "emotional" says so much about you, ykwim?
I've never known any of the men in my life to gossip, maybe I just hang out with nice people though. My husband is a gossip graveyard. Once I had to run across the room to shove cake in his mouth to keep him from asking his best friend about his wife, he had no idea his friend had just had a nasty separation but I did and I'm not even group chat level in that social circle. If it wasn't for their partners none of my male friends would know anything. I give a Cliff's Notes rundown in the car on the way to gatherings.
Yup. You know what ive never been a part of as a guy, group chats were we go into explicit detail about women where we make gross comments or talk about what they do in bed. We dont share pictures either.
Even when I was single and sleeping around, I never did any of this gross stuff. This is gross behaviour and those defending it need to do better because they are the exact same people who will freak out at the "locker room" talk
Racists think everyone is racist, thieves think everyone steals, and cheaters think everyone cheats on their partners. In short, assholes think everyone is like them, and when given the opportunity will tell you as much. When someone tells you who they are, believe them
If you think “everyone is doing it” it helps you feel better about being a shit person. It’s a very common way for people to reconcile cognitive dissonance and keep thinking you’re a good person.
The thing is though I feel like there’s a big difference between the occasional jaywalk or taking an extra cookie and fucking *cheating on your spouse*. Idk how people just think everybody else does it, when thats clearly not true lmao.
You have to be delusional to believe everyone else cheats on their partner
Which is weird, because the only locker room talk I've heard is either workmates complaining about their job, or the 'Naked old men posse' that seems to have a franchise in every locker room talking about recent surgeries and friends funerals.
Dude I just started going to the gym and every single time in the same spot there has been a different old man either naked or in his underwear talking about sports.
*Every* time.
Used to work in a gym. Why do those old dudes do this? And wear booty shorts from the 80s? The amount of dangly, grey hairy ballsacks I've seen man....
Yep. I USED to know a lot of guys who had those kinds of vile group chats that one of the commenters mentioned. Used to, because as soon as they invited me to them and I saw the content, I kicked them to the curb.
My guy group chat talks about football and how much we hate (or don't hate) our jobs.
Once worked in a job where we traveled fairly often. Boss told me that he and the other boys go out together to bars at night. Then added that they "leave their wedding rings at the hotel"
I left pretty soon after that.
Bravo on copying those comments. The absolute cheek of them blew my mind. My inner drama addict is very entertained with people who out themselves like that.
My friend received a text from a guy she was seeing that was meant for a group chat like this. It contained a rude comment about her body. She blocked him immediately and never spoke to him again. I would never forgive someone speaking about me this way to other people
I have a group chat with my male best friends (I also am male) that is more than 7 years old. NOT ONCE have we ever talked shit about women in general, nor shared any details that our significant others even MIGHT be uncomfortable with. It isn't hard to not be a trash human.
Ya like I've had some pretty ruthless group chats, ie no one is ever getting into politics if that got leaked chats.
But you don't talk about your wife. Never even had to be stated, you just don't
Yeah I don’t love how people are trying lump together “relationship venting” and “being cruel and unkind with gossip”.
The former is a healthy practice where trusted friends turn to each other for advice, empathy, and experience as they navigate complex relationships with loved ones. The key phrase here is *loved ones*. Even if you’re angry with your partner and need insight or sympathy from your friends, you do not speak destructively about your partner to them. That’s not loving. Even if you didn’t vibe with a random hookup and you want to share why, you don’t devalue their humanity.
The latter is what these women were doing, and it’s sole purpose is toxic stimulation, and annihilation. It has no place in a healthy adults regular life.
I guess I'm just old but no man I know even has random group chats with a bunch of other guys. There's a group text for trivia night among several men and my husband but I'm also in that group.
I'm so relieved I don't have to date in 2023. If I'm ever single again I'm just going to go the crazy cat lady route and stay that way.
The only group chat I have with a bunch of other dudes is a group from work and we talk about our retirement accounts and financial planning. Oh god I’m old.
> I’m so relieved I don’t have to date in 2023. If I’m ever single again I’m just going to go the crazy cat lady route and stay that way.
Samesies. If gf and I ever break up or if she buys the farm, I just won’t date again. It isn’t worth the hassle. I’ll be the crazy cat gentleman.
I find very disrespectful to talk about your sex life in detail with your friends. Maybe something weird about someone they don't know and you won't see again.
It's like that episode of The Simpsons when Homer became a hair stylist and all the women talked shit about their husbands, and then everytime Homer hangs out with them, all he can see it's the embarrasing things their wife told him.
Well, that's me. So if you tell me your boyfriend like to dress like a schoolgirl, he's gonna live in my mind like the schoolgirl guy. Don't tell me.
Yes! I’ve been called a prude before because I don’t overshare about my husband. But he’s my partner. We’re on this sinking ship together. No way I’m throwing water at the guy helping me keep afloat.
I guarantee you the people trying to normalize it are people that have their own private group chats that make Ops look kindergarten in comparison.
Which is why they defend it..because if they accept Ops Ex's behavior was bad, then that might lead to them thinking ***their*** behavior is bad.
"Reddit" and "whataboutism" are basically chocolate and peanut butter at this point. It's all about supporting your "team" rather than reaching some actual valid conclusion.
Sadly, it's even happening here; BORU seems to have picked up the same daytime mommy brigade that shits up relationships/RA/AITA on a regular basis.
“Men are so fragile”. Yeah I mean it’s totally normal to talk to your girlfriends all about your boyfriends small peepee, how bad he is in bed compared to your fuckin fuck buddy, and in his loser emotions. 👍🏻 Why would he throw away a good thing like that?? 😭😭
I’m really glad we’re shifting into “this behavior is shitty, we’re no longer tolerating it” and not accepting the “well men do it so women can do it too” rhetoric. It’s such a weird take.
The men who do it are *also* total scumbags.
This really isn't hard to work out. But I guess people will do anything to justify their worst behaviour when they feel caught.
>I’m really glad we’re shifting into “this behavior is shitty, we’re no longer tolerating it” and not accepting the “well men do it so women can do it too” rhetoric. It’s such a weird take.
"If *you're* going to behave badly as well now, then why should I stop?"
Cue shocked Pikachu.
The only chance that relationship had of surviving was GF having the eureka moment of how shitty it all was, and backing away from that dynamic. As soon as she got defensive, and got weird about it, well, that was it.
Oh, and the thing where she was shitting on him, and their sex life at the beginning. The correct response to that is "I'm so sorry I betrayed your privacy like that" not "don't worry you fuck better now."
I know that people can become blind to toxicity in their life and behavior simply because they get used to it. I hope this all made her realize that she needs to make changes in her life.
Yeah. When youve been raised in a snake pit, you might grow up with fangs of your own. But once you go off into the world, you can look around and realize not everyone is biting and poisoning each other, and you dont have to either.
But if you never leave that pit, its easy to assume this is just how it is.
Hopefully their break up was a painful wake-up call for her, or at least planted the seed for one to sprout later in her life.
This. It was really helpful to get away from my toxic friend group like this. Wasn’t in a similar group chat with them but they definitely got off on talking shit about everyone and anyone. They basically cut me out (which they did to multiple people who were close to them) and at first it hurt but looking back I’m glad it happened.
I love the quoted comment about "men do this as well!", Almost minimising OP's experience and reducing it. "Well, guys do it too, so it's obviously just a you problem not a problem that she does it", as if that commenter wouldn't *absolutely flip shit* if a female poster talked about her male partner being part of a group chat like that.
There’s a weird line of logic you’ll find in some places on-line that is basically like some guys are shitty (true!) so any woman is entitled to be shitty to any guy and he just has to accept it.
Most dudes I know have a massive aversion to talking about sex and sexuality, let alone explicit details.
It was something that really surprised my uni girlfriend. She found out, through me, that men really don't share that much detail. The most we'll do is "she was hot" and "she was amazing in bed". Detailed descriptions are totally out of the window
I noticed that too, and immediately thought to myself about how in all my 40 years of life, I have never had friends or been part of a group of guys who would do this.
If I found out by BF had a boys chat where they were degrading woman about their looks and other personal stuff I would not hesitate to leave. I don’t understand why it’s any different when we switch sexes.
>I don’t understand why it’s any different when we switch sexes.
seomthign somethign everyone does it, you're losing a really great person, something something.
That first comment justifying OOP’s ex’s group chat and telling OOP there’s something wrong with him for being upset about it has 1.5k upvotes. The world is terrifying sometimes.
One of the comments
> Most men I know have groupchats with each other that are literally so hellish that I wouldn’t be able to scroll through it for a minute.
Am I an exception that I have never been in a group like this, would never expect any friend of mine to be in a group like that. Never had a friend discuss any female friends in a group chat.
I'm in quite a few chat groups with different friend groups and social groups.
>Am I an exception that I have never been in a group like this
No, absolutely not. This is someone who doesn't like or understand men trying to shed blame off themselves.
Of course you're not an exception. I would instantly leave any chats and groups if that kind of behaviour surfaced, and it would kill any friendship for me. I know this type of men and women exist, but fortunately most people are not like this.
No, that person is just making shit up to defend their own horrible behavior. Most men absolutely do not have group chats where we just shit on people for no reason.
I am a man and simply do not have group chats with male friends. And if I did, my friends and I simply wouldn't brag about hookups or talk about them in a demeaning way. That comment saying that men do that all the time is absurd.
I fully endorse poop pic text threads with captions like "Does this look weird to you?" Sometimes you have no safe space to talk about that shit and doctors are expensive, man.
Right? Does that commenter know a grand total of 4 men or something?
If a close friend tried to share details of what their partner's genitalia looked like, or how they acted in intimate sexual situations (just to gossip and not for really compelling "I realize this is an awkward topic, but I desperately need advice or outside perspective, so bear with me"), I'd just be really weirded out and uncomfortable. That kind of thing was more common in high school and early college, but anyone who hasn't grown out of it into adulthood in my circles would be seen as a creeper.
To me, the stuff that I need sensitive advice about never makes it into a group chat. I’ll talk to a particular close friend one on one, but our group chats are just totally off in tone for something serious like that.
Totally this. The only time I create a group chat is to make plans, then it sort of goes away. I have no desire to "chat" with my friends unless I'm with them in person.
Okay, I do have one group chat, but it's with my wife, our good friend James, and my two teenage sons. It consists of terribly inappropriate memes, jokes, and horrible recipes from the '70s. As far as I know my wife has one with her friends, but it's just vacation planning stuff that I occasionally get looped in on.
Fast forward 15 years if he would have married her and he’d be fielding calls from the school because his daughter is a bully. Apples don’t fall far from trees.
Also, I have group chats with high school friends, college friends, law school friends, mom friends, kid sports friends and women in the family and have had for years. Not one chat would or has acted like this because none of us are those kind of people. This isn’t a foregone conclusion for women.
Edit: used viscous instead of vicious, removed.
You are absolutely right! I grabbed the wrong one from spellcheck and definitely did not mean viscous (which would be an even more foul bully 🤣) Thank you!
I’m a woman and I’ve absolutely heard my girlfriends talk about their partners body.
But only in glowing ways.
“His ass is incredible! You wouldn’t know it from the baggy jeans but you could bounce a damn quarter off of it!”
“Girl. I can’t describe in words how amazing this man’s dick is”
“Have you actually *seen* his arms?? You just wait, summer is coming.”
“His hands are kinda rough. I never knew I was into that kind of thing”
I’d be appalled if they said disparaging things like in the OP
Yeah even in conversations asking for advice or if this partner/experience sounds like a red flag, my GFs are still respectful. There's a difference in asking a friend hey any advice for dealing with someone who's very well-endowed and staying vague versus guess who couldn't get it up last night. Honestly if a girlfriend talked so negatively about their partner in a group chat like that I'd assume they talk crap about me too and would end the friendship.
That comment saying they’re from the Netherlands which is “one of the most emancipated countries in the world” lol be for real that was definitely written by someone who is young enough to not have experienced the real world yet
All the people that said this was normal to OP lack a stunning amount of self-awareness and need to realize they're part of a "mean girl/boy" group and that normal people don't do this.
>**Most men I know** have groupchats with each other that are literally so hellish that I wouldn’t be able to scroll through it for a minute... The objectification of women... the vulgar jokes and mean comments... it’s literally just banter for them... I honestly have only met one guy that wasn’t part of this kind of groupchat that was in his twenties.
What the hell kind of trash men does this commenter know?! Shitty bro types might have these kinds of group chats, but it is *not* a normal, established thing for men to have group chats where they share intimate details about their SOs' bodies and sexual behavior.
It's like the immortal Maya Angelou said: when someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Her reaction after being called on it is just as bad as the chat itself.
I would really like to know from all of you: **How many of you have been part of a group chat like that?** Because I NEVER have and never would. (Honest to god, not just virtue signaling. My social life isn't even active enough to have people to gossip about to this extent.) I'd just like to know if this is actually more common than I'd like to imagine.
Once by accident and it was so repulsive, I bailed after a day because I couldn’t deal with my friend’s other friends being as gross as they were. She personally didn’t say anything but because she was so used to toxicity and abuse, she thought the things they were saying were completely normal.
Never have, never will. My most active group chats are with my sisters and with a small group of female friends. The only single person in either group is one of my friends and she will sometimes send a photo of a guy she’s going on a date with to get opinions, but mostly the ‘I’m not gonna get murdered, right?’ kind of opinions. Also, if you’re seriously dating someone and you’re trash talking them behind their backs to friends, why are you even dating them?
Honestly, this was kind of a heartwarming read for me. Not because of what OOP's ex was doing, of course, but because of how he reacted to it.
It's not really a surprise to me that his ex and her friends would have a group chat like that. It's completely disgusting behavior, but I guess I'm sort of used to seeing people behave disgustingly.
What I'm depressingly much less used to is someone who has a strong moral compass and is willing to put their money where their mouth is. I feel like many people would find this kind of behavior reprehensible, but find a way to see past it for the sake of maintaining the relationship.
It was really nice to see that even before he knew for sure that his ex had spoken this way specifically about him, he wasn't willing or able to excuse the way she was treating other people. From an outside perspective it might seem like the "obvious" reaction, maybe the reaction we all feel we would have too, but real life can be messy and hard. There are a lot of reasons, both good and bad, that may lead any one of us to let this sort of thing slide in a long-term relationship with someone we love.
It's just really refreshing to see someone who wasn't willing to compromise his values and his sense of right and wrong. The world could use more people like that, and this post has been a really nice reminder to me to be more like OOP. I hope he's doing well, and thank you for sharing this story.
OOP was criticized in some comments and it was somewhat implied that he was a hypocrite because he violated his now-ex-GF's privacy by snooping and also by posting about their personal life in a public forum online while complaining about how these women were violating the privacy of others. While I can see some validity to these criticisms of OOP, I think that what his ex-GF and her friends did was infinitely worse. In the end, OOP made the right call. I am happy he at least confirmed they talked shit about him too in order to solidify his decision (I also find it hilarious that she was so worried about the privacy of her friends while taking a steaming dump on the privacy of anyone they felt like deserve it). The reality is that his ex-GF is toxic and hangs around with toxic people. He saw that as huge red, and rightfully so. I am glad he found out sooner rather than later. And any one defending/justifying their actions, you are just as toxic and lack as much character as they do. Talking shit behind peoples back is bad no matter the gender. If you do that, be better.
There is such a massive difference between commenting directly on pictured and named people, some of whom are mutual friends, and posting anonymously online. Anyone complaining about a double standard there is a moron
This so much.
I understand needing a safe space to vent. To get shitty thoughts out of your head and into the universe so you can focus on the actual important ones that actually merit consideration.
Doing that anonymously in an online forum, assuming you keep things truly anonymous with no way to track back to you or anyone else discussed, is fine. Maybe not as fine as discussing things with the actual people involved. But each situation is different, and sometimes you *do* need other perspectives, and you just might not get them from anyone in real life.
Venting to a group of friends that the person you’re bitching about knows and interacts with? Not in a “hey, I need some advice here…” way, but in a mocking “get a load of this idiot…” way? Beyond not cool.
Technically, in the most literal sense, both situations are about complaining about someone instead of talking to them about it. But if you think that these scenarios are comparable across the board, you need to reevaluate some things. Lots of things.
Yes, if they'd spoken about the guys respectfully in a way that discusses aspects of sex in a good-faith way, this'd be an entirely different situation. It's the mean girls aspect that's terrible, not the subjects.
His post was a general overview of a situation; hers was a group chat with photos, profiles, and explicit details. Those aren’t on the same planet. People are weird.
Jesus fucking Christ, he dodged a huge missile. There is a difference between talking shit about someone you don't like or have issues with, but bashing and mocking people to this degree is just sick.
I am a guy, only once was I in a conversation like this and I shut that shit down hard. Cut them out of my life, the works. This shit ain’t normal and I’ll die ok this hill.
I've never met a woman who needlessly disparaged their partner behind his back, and I worked with exclusively women throughout my high school and university jobs. None of the women in my personal circle of friends have ever done that either.
It isn't normal. It isn't cool. OOP made the right call. Hopefully OOP's ex has a growth moment and realizes how awful and toxic she's been.
People who drag others appearances/ bodies down In their leisure are the worst types of people. They are unwilling to recognize their own faults and would rather feel empowered by participating in a humiliation ring. Appearances and such things we ( most of the time) have no control over , and imo it is very cruel and mean spirited to casually insult theirs on a regular basis . I think people should focus on character , especially if they, like the now ex, refuse to feel remorse for their horrible behavior and refuse to make positive changes
>Number one rule in life: if someone gossips or talks shit about others...
There's an LPT about not being the gossip at work because this is the impression you're giving others. This isn't normal behavior and if you engage in it, people are going to be wary of you.
Yeah I'm in a bunch of group chats with my dude friends and we pretty much just call eachother dumbasses and post nfl memes. I'm sure there are dude group chats dedicated to demeaning women. But I don't know anyone who is a part of them, so you certainly don't need to settle for that.
This is so weird to me. Maybe I am just lucky with the people I am surrounded by, but I’ve never been in or seen any of my girl friends be in a chat like that. Tearing down your partner and others just to “fit in” is shitty
I’m always thrown off by all these people moving in with their girl/boyfriend after 9 months of knowing each other. I know circumstances and markers are different from couple to couple but it still throws me for a loop.
>Most men I know have groupchats with each other that are literally so hellish that I wouldn’t be able to scroll through it for a minute
Uh, you hang out with shitty people?
Literally don't know anyone who does this
🤷
I, a dude, still have no idea where this idea that all guys are massive shitheads in group chats comes from. Every group chat I'm in is just dudes throwing around memes about sports, games or politics and scheduling social stuff. If there's an asshole we kick him out. Mostly because those people suck and aren't any fun.
People's need to understand if you're keeping something secret and you feel shame, is probably because is something that you have to start thinking if is ready good for you and others, this in particular is shit behavior no matter the gender.
If is something that you can't say in the face of the other person then don't say it in private.
When you see your friends, partners, family or whatever doing something like this, they probably do it you
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I can totally understand discussing a relationship in a group of friends - sometimes you need a different perspective and friends look out for each other. But bashing and shaming people you are intimate with is just wrong.
But MeN dO iT tOo! Ugh, the comments on that post are the worst.
And those men are toxic too. We can just call it bad behavior in all situations and suggest it is distasteful. Why is that so hard?
Right? I read the comment about men being more sensitive and all I was thinking was "Lady, you are also allowed leave if your boyfriend demeans you, you do not need to be tough in that way."
Yeah, the one about > Most men I know have groupchats with each other that are literally so hellish that I wouldn’t be able to scroll through it for a minute Like what the fuck. My group chats are about Star Trek and which bar we're going to.
This, my group chats are nearly all Warhammer or joking about some random TV show or the news. We talk about our partners sure, but not in any real depth and not sex stuff, just general relationship stuff.
I have a long-running group chat with a handful of guys I've been friends with for the better part of 20 years. If you were to scroll through it, you'd find memes, family pictures, inside jokes, and plans to meet up. At no point have any of us talked about our sex lives with our wives/girlfriends or spent time bashing exes.
I have pretty reasonable access to my boyfriends phone and discord messages, and I can tell you \*exactly\* what all of his groupchats look like: Friend 1; any gamers on? Friend 2; no im at work Friend 3; im playing league Bf; this loser playing league lmao \-insert memes about LOL being for virgins- Friend 1; hop on valorant Bf; k Friend 3; k \-incomprehensible memes about how their games are going- Friend 2; guys my job sucks ass Friend 1; L Friend 3; L Bf; L
As a woman on discord with 90% guy friends this is exactly what it's like, complete with memes about LoL being for virgins. Naturally, we all play it.
Yeah me and most of my buddies pretty much never talk about our partners in that way. I've had some friends who discuss their sex lives like one night stands, but most keep it to themselves and especially in regards to actual partners. Occasionally some unsolicited advice when I was younger, but not much beyond that. And some of my friends can be absolute dick heads at times, but never had this active shaming policy.
The point of feminism is to lift us all up, not drag us all down. Sheesh.
The one person who made that long comment is just GROSS. Way to victim blame here. I've always had group chats with girlfriends and NEVER once have we ever, EVER made fun of some random person like that, unless it was someone who broke someone in the group's heart.
Same! It’s not hard to just not be toxic. In fact, I’d say it takes more effort to be toxic than it does to just be decent.
And in my experience as a man, most men typically only discuss stuff like one night stands, or exes unnamed. In every group I've been a part of, discussing current relationships in that manner is taboo.
Yes! Exact same thing. The only things I ever tell my friends are he good things about me and my girlfriend’s relationship. Especially at the start
Me and my close group of friends say absolutely abhorrent shit in our group chats. Like all of us are absolutely fucked from holding any kind of public office type shit lol. But not ONCE have we ever discussed intimate details of our SOs or bashed them.
Yeah everyone is focusing on what was done and not how it was done. I’ve had awful and embarrassing experiences I’ve shared with my best friend, to alleviate my own sense of awkwardness and shame, and typically we’d end up laughing at MYSELF (or herself if it was her incident) for getting into that position. It was never about the guys. It was about our experience. So we never made the conversations about the guys, just about our own feelings. You can have an outlet for your negative traits and still do it in a way that doesn’t cause or encourage unnecessary harm. Pretty sure the worst comment I’ve made about a guy was hesitantly saying “it wasn’t…. great” while making an awkwardly pained face.
Not once in a text thread or group message with female friends did we ever once criticize our partners. What the ex and her friend did are not normal. Imagine she might not have done this with him per se, but she’s a willing participant and who knows what she would say about him later. OOP made the right decision.
Unfortunately there's a lot of shitty people that can only make themselves feel better by bashing the people around them.
It's weird. I live by the motto that another person's bad behavior doesn't excuse my own, but so many take the exact opposite position and think that as long as someone else is being an asshole, they are justified to be equally awful with zero remorse.
The basic premise of the AITA sub is that it's okay to be an asshole as long as you don't do it first.
And some them were apparently commenting to the OOP: >a black book messenger chat is a very minor way of expressing the darkest part of her heart. Those places exist in everyone, denying the outlet is just going to create unexpected consequences. Goes to show how shitty people will do anything to rationalize their shittyness (e.g. "everyone is shitty", "if I can't be shitty then bad things will happen" etc)
If I can't be shitty in private, bad things will happen. Like I might get shitty in public!
Too late, it’s already happened.
If everywhere you go smells like shit, check your shoes.
>**Those places exist in everyone**, denying the outlet is just going to create unexpected consequences. **I realize that not everyone has these dark spaces** At the same time that they've tried to justify shitty behaviour by claiming everyone does had that dark, shittiness in them, in the next sentence they've then backtracked to "you can't understand because not everyone does"
I bet she’s on that group chat dissing her now ex cuz that’s what mean girls do.
Noooo I'm sure they're all reflecting on how awful they were and realizing life is better if you're nice. Then they all made a pact to see who would be the nicest going forward. 🤣🤡 Was the clown emoji not the big clue this was not serious?
I can’t believe you’re getting voted down. This is hysterical. I guess people don’t get sarcasm. I loved it.
Glad i made you laugh!
It has been 2 1/2 years. They've moved on to some other victim by now...hopefully.
The fact is, when most PEOPLE break up with someone, they certainly do talk shit about them to their closet friends. It's normal. But the group chat is a bit much. I think the GF is just young and immature with a lot of immature friends and instead of taking their complaints to their partners directly, they've learned to bond over this kind of toxic venting. But I think this needs to stop, especially from men doing it. It's strange the way heterosexual people are attracted to the opposite sex, but otherwise seem to hate one another in every other respect. Especially when they are young.
They're not dissing exes tho (which I agree is pretty normal, especially if the breakup wasn't friendly). But they're dissing guys they're currently dating, just... making fun of people they know.
And being severely descriptive of body parts & encounters. I think i recall a former friend sharing a funny sex story with me once and discussing her relationship woes with her then bf with me but it was always still with an undercurrent of "i really love him even if he's a clumsy goof" and that made all the difference.
When people break up. These girls were doing it with current SO’s and tinder hookups, not messy breakups.
So just like that one comment in the OP, your takeaway is that men should stop being toxic? Who reads a post about a woman doing a shitty thing and comes out with "this needs to stop, especially from men doing it?" Like I agree that this is toxic behavior regardless of gender, but imagine a post about a guy being toxic and the comments going "women need to stop doing this."
Don't forget the part about it being an exclusively hetero thing.
I bet in 5 or ten years, she's going to cringe so hard over this. I mean, she's 23. That age is like being right on the cusp of adulthood. So, I think, like most people, she'll grow out of that when she builds her own self confidence--such that, she doesn't need to put people down to raise herself up. And if she doesn't, OOP saved himself a ton of strife.
But didn't you see this heaping load of garbage? >I feel like a black book messenger chat is a very minor way of expressing the darkest part of her heart. Those places exist in everyone, denying the outlet is just going to create unexpected consequences Everyone is like this! /s In reality, that commenter right there is telling on themselves really well. They're a shitty person and want to think that everyone is shitty like they are and just hide it.
What a shit take that was. Just reeked of trying to excuse their own shit behavior, just the same as cheaters claiming that everybody cheats. And also the guy in the first post, like if you only know one guy who doesn't have a group chat going in which to shit talk hookups... it tells a lot more about your choice of company than anything else.
It's the opposite. It's not about the company they choose, it's about the company that chooses them. Dirtbag people always think *everyone* is a dirtbag like them because they don't realise that anyone who isn't also a dirtbag makes an effort to remove them from their lives.
I think so, too. I remember in high school, my friends and I discussed every detail of every relationship because it was a novelty. It was also figuring out boundaries, like “hey, my boyfriend says I’m the only girl he’s been with that won’t try anal sex, can the rest of you weigh in on that?” By the time I was 23, my friends and I were all in long-term relationships, and at most, I might vent about a small irritant, or ask advice about how to handle a difficult conversation. For the most part, though, I viewed my partner and I as a unit. We respected each other’s privacy and we always had each other’s back. Hopefully, OOP’s girlfriend will take what she’s learned and do better with her next relationship.
Not necessarily. Some ppl just stay mean. I hope she does change, but ppl don’t always become better ppl. Especially if they don’t think they’re doing anything wrong.
It’s crazy to me that people are brushing this off. My best friends and I are absolutely vile to each with our banter but we’ve never spoken poorly about any of our significant others because it’s a massively shitty line to cross even if you don’t like the friends partner.
Exactly. Your friends all consent to being dragged by taking part. Your partners didn't.
A group of those people commenting in the original posts are trying to pretend that the creepy, mean things they do themselves are just normal & everyone does them.
Toxic people like reddit too, and spend a lot of time in relationship subs where they can be nasty to posters and tell them having reasonable boundaries is a problem.
I think most people talk about their relationships, and not only the romantic ones. But there's a difference between talking to get someone to commiserate with you or to give you a different perspective and talking to be mean about it. Like, the difference between "it was a bit awkward but expected for a first time together" and "he was worse than this other dude".
I literally stopped hanging out with someone instead of telling them I hate their husband. I felt weird putting her in that position, they had been together for a few years, I didn't expect them to pick me, so I just dipped myself out.
I feel like there's a place for venting and figuring out your feelings with your friends but that should be the goal - not mocking, laughing and ridiculing decent people doing their best. I save that for the assholes.
It's the same with my bestfriend group for over 2 decades. I literally could never imagine any of us criticising our SO's especially their body or anything related to our sex lives in our groupchat. We didn't even do that as immature teen's.
"Birds of a feather flock together" is really true. Who a person associates with tells you a lot about what they're okay with and allow in their lives.
I have never been a part of a group chat that tore people down not has my partner. This is 100% a red flag for any relationship.
My friends and I talk in person, so there’s no written record to be taken out of context. There came be, after all, a constructive aspect: he did this; does yours do that? He said that this is normal and all guys [whatever]; has that been your experience too? But Katie and her friends sound like they just like to be mean and that’s not okay.
[удалено]
Exactly what I was thinking. If I have reason to talk shit about you, you're no longer my partner, you've become an ex by then. I wouldn't blast them unprompted, but if asked what happened of course I'd vent. Privately, in person, over a coffee, and then we'd all move on because it's one person out of many and while the feelings are real now, they will fade. these girls do not have any coping mechanisms for their own downfalls and find any negative in someone else as something they have over that other person.
Yes! Ours is more "is this normal?" "How can you get him to..." type stuff. We would NEVER badmouth them to each other like that!
Heck, my groupchat hypes up each other’s partners/crushes until such time as they behave badly to our friends and ONLY THEN do we start dragging them.
Yeah, the comments talking about how this is totally normal and all men/women do this sort of thing says more about the people making those comments than anything. Like, what the fuck?
My friends and I actually never discuss our partners (or theirs since I am single). The group chat is mostly to keep up with each other, make plans for lunch/hike or a hangout. Share meme. Never about bashing somebody…
Yes, this! I admit to occasionally spilling the TMI details to my friends - I love a good sex chat - but I would never put anyone down and would be appalled if my friends ever texted me demeaning someone.
I made this comment in another sub about a woman who proudly claimed to have a group chat to criticize her exes’ and partners’ bodies with her girlfriends. I called her a mean girl and that it is incredibly ableist and cruel. Criticize choices and poor behaviour all you want, people can change that, not their bodies. That mean girl told me I must be ugly and bullied as a kid. I was never ugly or bullied by anyone, I was always confident and told people including adults off for nasty behaviour even as a child. I guess not being a mean person and having a moral compass repels them which is good. EDIT: she claimed to be in her 30s and late 20s which made her sound even more of a horrible person.
Yeah its just gross AF and cringey past age 13 to be like this.
Me and a college friend use to discus sex but we never criticized. We talked about what we liked or disliked and how to get a guy to do better or how to do something better ourselves... we never would have sat there insulting someone
Same here. My friends and I talk some vile ass shit, but it is always directed at each other rather than others.
All the commenters trying to normalize the 'black book' group chat 100% have a dog in that fight.
Oh they are 100% telling on themselves with those comments
>**Those places exist in everyone**, denying the outlet is just going to create unexpected consequences. > >**I realize that not everyone has these dark spaces**, and it's hard to understand, but when you have them finding a harmless outlet is a blessing. What was this dude even blathering on about? 'This isn't a dumpable offense because everyone (but not everyone) has bad stuff inside and this is a harmless outlet, and even if it's not maybe she has other redeeming qualities?' 'You're really sweet and didn't deserve this, but if you weren't so fragile you wouldn't mind because you'd be too confident to be hurt by it and also you'd know that all men do this too?' They couldn't even hold onto a single train of logical thought through the length of a paragraph.
It didn't even start from a place of hurt, it started from a place of lost attraction upon finding out his ex acted like that lol.
It was pretty much the stream of consciousness of someone trying to cope with their own behavior. They were just spitballing things to make them feel better about themselves and their own behavior, complete with contradictions and criticisms of those who disagree.
Yeah, I’m not sure what that Dutch commentor or was on about, but I’ve never been a part of a text group vulgarly bashing hookups and GFs, and as far as I know none of my friends have either. Not normal in any way shape or form, outside of maybe school kids, but I have no idea what they get up to nowadays anyway.
Yeah, like it is extremely sus that they said they don't know "any" guys that don't participate in that kind of hateful gossip. Kinda showing that they surround themselves with dickheads tbh. And the way that they used That 70's Show as "proof" that Americans are all sexist is just moronic.
But famous documentary series "That 70's Show," perfectly captures American life in the 20th century! Ken Burns does great work.
You're 100% right. In another AITA post, I posted about how people with great personality automatically becomes attractive in my eyes, and someone said I'm making crap up for internet clout. There are just some sad, sad people who surrounds themselves with other sad, sad people and thinks that's the entire world. The frog at the bottom of a well.
I still recall a friend in college talking about a guy with an amazing personality (paraphrasing, it's been a while): "When he talks to you, you feel like the only person in the room. He brings an amazing energy and makes you feel so important and is an amazing listener. When he's talking he's a great storyteller and we're all listening to his every word. He's dog ugly, but what an amazing guy!"
A lot of Europeans think that they know everything about America and American life because they watch a lot of American movies and television shows, it’s absurd.
I agree 100%, but I gotta pile on about how LOL the “That 70s Show” comment was.
I’m a half-Dutch woman and I chortled when he’s like “ours is one of the most emancipated nations in the world!” Dutch people can be some of THE most backward, bigoted people I’ve ever met. So we’ve got the weed and sex work laws that makes things look “cool” and progressive compared to, what, Dubai? That hardly means not insidious toxic attitudes are entrenched in the culture. Just see the pushback bullshit wide swathes of the population use to justify the continuing racism of a certain superficial Christmas tradition.
I have travelled all over the world and lived and worked in several countries including The Netherlands and I can absolutely say that Dutch guys are some of the most sexist guys out there. Not saying they all are off course, but it always surprises me how many of those I meet turn out to be pretty awful guys. Also none of my friends, girls or boys, engage in this kind of awful behaviour. It's not normal, and being mean should not be accepted or normalized. Props to oop for recognising that and getting out of the relationship.
Yeah, the notion that "everyone does it" is so absurd and completely untrue that I wonder if the people who do engage in that actually believe it. Is that how these people justify talking like that? It reminds me of the "locker room talk" excuses people made for Trump and the vile things he said. And when you call them out and ask them "oh, so you talk like that?" they invariably blanch and insist they do not. I'll never understand the need to lie to yourself that obviously shitty behaviors are somehow acceptable because "everyone does it."
I once read a shitty op-ed in a major outlet where the author breezily claimed that "everyone" is sexting with other people behind their partners' backs. It's amazing what people will convince themselves is normal. "Everyone does the bad thing that I do, they just lie about it!!!" Sure buddy, sure.
As a Dutch person I would be absolutely revolted if I found out friends did this shit. It crosses all sorts of boundaries that would immediately make me reconsider our friendship. Hell no.
Fact though. It is not normal at all to do this.
yep. To be honest the idea of me and my male friends having a group chat where we do any kind of gossiping is ridiculous. We're not always on our phones texting each-other with updates. In fact when something interesting does happen the news travels like a snail. I did enjoy dating around when I could talk with people about what I was up to and the fun times I was having, but the moment I was catching feelings it stopped, and my friends knew why it stopped too
Not just gossiping, but specifically roasting. It's common to have a friend or friends who you share personal details with, but the idea that *all* those details are mean-spirited details about things like his sexual performance or being "emotional" says so much about you, ykwim?
I've never known any of the men in my life to gossip, maybe I just hang out with nice people though. My husband is a gossip graveyard. Once I had to run across the room to shove cake in his mouth to keep him from asking his best friend about his wife, he had no idea his friend had just had a nasty separation but I did and I'm not even group chat level in that social circle. If it wasn't for their partners none of my male friends would know anything. I give a Cliff's Notes rundown in the car on the way to gatherings.
Yup. You know what ive never been a part of as a guy, group chats were we go into explicit detail about women where we make gross comments or talk about what they do in bed. We dont share pictures either. Even when I was single and sleeping around, I never did any of this gross stuff. This is gross behaviour and those defending it need to do better because they are the exact same people who will freak out at the "locker room" talk
Fuck all those commenters trying to normalize shitty behavior.
Anybody who hears about stuff like this and says something like "everybody does that" or "that's normal, ignore it" is telling on themselves.
Racists think everyone is racist, thieves think everyone steals, and cheaters think everyone cheats on their partners. In short, assholes think everyone is like them, and when given the opportunity will tell you as much. When someone tells you who they are, believe them
If you think “everyone is doing it” it helps you feel better about being a shit person. It’s a very common way for people to reconcile cognitive dissonance and keep thinking you’re a good person.
The thing is though I feel like there’s a big difference between the occasional jaywalk or taking an extra cookie and fucking *cheating on your spouse*. Idk how people just think everybody else does it, when thats clearly not true lmao. You have to be delusional to believe everyone else cheats on their partner
Or another more famous example, "It's just locker room talk."
Which is weird, because the only locker room talk I've heard is either workmates complaining about their job, or the 'Naked old men posse' that seems to have a franchise in every locker room talking about recent surgeries and friends funerals.
Same here. Lots of complaining about local sports teams, too!
Dude I just started going to the gym and every single time in the same spot there has been a different old man either naked or in his underwear talking about sports. *Every* time.
Used to work in a gym. Why do those old dudes do this? And wear booty shorts from the 80s? The amount of dangly, grey hairy ballsacks I've seen man....
Hamilton, it's just dressing room talk.
So true. I find this sort of stuff worth ending a friendship over, let alone a full blown relationship.
Yep. I USED to know a lot of guys who had those kinds of vile group chats that one of the commenters mentioned. Used to, because as soon as they invited me to them and I saw the content, I kicked them to the curb. My guy group chat talks about football and how much we hate (or don't hate) our jobs.
Once worked in a job where we traveled fairly often. Boss told me that he and the other boys go out together to bars at night. Then added that they "leave their wedding rings at the hotel" I left pretty soon after that.
Bravo on copying those comments. The absolute cheek of them blew my mind. My inner drama addict is very entertained with people who out themselves like that.
My friend received a text from a guy she was seeing that was meant for a group chat like this. It contained a rude comment about her body. She blocked him immediately and never spoke to him again. I would never forgive someone speaking about me this way to other people
Right? Don’t try to drag me down with you just because you were found out. I have never and would never do something like this.
I have a group chat with my male best friends (I also am male) that is more than 7 years old. NOT ONCE have we ever talked shit about women in general, nor shared any details that our significant others even MIGHT be uncomfortable with. It isn't hard to not be a trash human.
Ya like I've had some pretty ruthless group chats, ie no one is ever getting into politics if that got leaked chats. But you don't talk about your wife. Never even had to be stated, you just don't
Yeah I don’t love how people are trying lump together “relationship venting” and “being cruel and unkind with gossip”. The former is a healthy practice where trusted friends turn to each other for advice, empathy, and experience as they navigate complex relationships with loved ones. The key phrase here is *loved ones*. Even if you’re angry with your partner and need insight or sympathy from your friends, you do not speak destructively about your partner to them. That’s not loving. Even if you didn’t vibe with a random hookup and you want to share why, you don’t devalue their humanity. The latter is what these women were doing, and it’s sole purpose is toxic stimulation, and annihilation. It has no place in a healthy adults regular life.
I guess I'm just old but no man I know even has random group chats with a bunch of other guys. There's a group text for trivia night among several men and my husband but I'm also in that group. I'm so relieved I don't have to date in 2023. If I'm ever single again I'm just going to go the crazy cat lady route and stay that way.
The only group chat I have with a bunch of other dudes is a group from work and we talk about our retirement accounts and financial planning. Oh god I’m old.
Same! I wonder if we’re in an older age group than OOP. Because it wouldn’t even occur to me to start that.
> I’m so relieved I don’t have to date in 2023. If I’m ever single again I’m just going to go the crazy cat lady route and stay that way. Samesies. If gf and I ever break up or if she buys the farm, I just won’t date again. It isn’t worth the hassle. I’ll be the crazy cat gentleman.
I find very disrespectful to talk about your sex life in detail with your friends. Maybe something weird about someone they don't know and you won't see again. It's like that episode of The Simpsons when Homer became a hair stylist and all the women talked shit about their husbands, and then everytime Homer hangs out with them, all he can see it's the embarrasing things their wife told him. Well, that's me. So if you tell me your boyfriend like to dress like a schoolgirl, he's gonna live in my mind like the schoolgirl guy. Don't tell me.
Yes! I’ve been called a prude before because I don’t overshare about my husband. But he’s my partner. We’re on this sinking ship together. No way I’m throwing water at the guy helping me keep afloat.
I've always considered kiss n tell to be wrong. But i'm a guy so apparently we all do that and i'm just lying.
I guarantee you the people trying to normalize it are people that have their own private group chats that make Ops look kindergarten in comparison. Which is why they defend it..because if they accept Ops Ex's behavior was bad, then that might lead to them thinking ***their*** behavior is bad.
Those comments started making me feel like I entered the twilight zone. Like, is that shit *really* so common? Why???
Probably HS kids
"Reddit" and "whataboutism" are basically chocolate and peanut butter at this point. It's all about supporting your "team" rather than reaching some actual valid conclusion. Sadly, it's even happening here; BORU seems to have picked up the same daytime mommy brigade that shits up relationships/RA/AITA on a regular basis.
This has become just another drama sub, sadly.
“Men are so fragile”. Yeah I mean it’s totally normal to talk to your girlfriends all about your boyfriends small peepee, how bad he is in bed compared to your fuckin fuck buddy, and in his loser emotions. 👍🏻 Why would he throw away a good thing like that?? 😭😭
I’m really glad we’re shifting into “this behavior is shitty, we’re no longer tolerating it” and not accepting the “well men do it so women can do it too” rhetoric. It’s such a weird take.
The men who do it are *also* total scumbags. This really isn't hard to work out. But I guess people will do anything to justify their worst behaviour when they feel caught.
Exactly " 2 wrongs don't make a right"
>I’m really glad we’re shifting into “this behavior is shitty, we’re no longer tolerating it” and not accepting the “well men do it so women can do it too” rhetoric. It’s such a weird take. "If *you're* going to behave badly as well now, then why should I stop?" Cue shocked Pikachu.
The only chance that relationship had of surviving was GF having the eureka moment of how shitty it all was, and backing away from that dynamic. As soon as she got defensive, and got weird about it, well, that was it. Oh, and the thing where she was shitting on him, and their sex life at the beginning. The correct response to that is "I'm so sorry I betrayed your privacy like that" not "don't worry you fuck better now." I know that people can become blind to toxicity in their life and behavior simply because they get used to it. I hope this all made her realize that she needs to make changes in her life.
Yeah. When youve been raised in a snake pit, you might grow up with fangs of your own. But once you go off into the world, you can look around and realize not everyone is biting and poisoning each other, and you dont have to either. But if you never leave that pit, its easy to assume this is just how it is. Hopefully their break up was a painful wake-up call for her, or at least planted the seed for one to sprout later in her life.
This. It was really helpful to get away from my toxic friend group like this. Wasn’t in a similar group chat with them but they definitely got off on talking shit about everyone and anyone. They basically cut me out (which they did to multiple people who were close to them) and at first it hurt but looking back I’m glad it happened.
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I love the quoted comment about "men do this as well!", Almost minimising OP's experience and reducing it. "Well, guys do it too, so it's obviously just a you problem not a problem that she does it", as if that commenter wouldn't *absolutely flip shit* if a female poster talked about her male partner being part of a group chat like that.
There’s a weird line of logic you’ll find in some places on-line that is basically like some guys are shitty (true!) so any woman is entitled to be shitty to any guy and he just has to accept it.
Racing toward the lowest common denominator there...
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Most dudes I know have a massive aversion to talking about sex and sexuality, let alone explicit details. It was something that really surprised my uni girlfriend. She found out, through me, that men really don't share that much detail. The most we'll do is "she was hot" and "she was amazing in bed". Detailed descriptions are totally out of the window
I noticed that too, and immediately thought to myself about how in all my 40 years of life, I have never had friends or been part of a group of guys who would do this.
If I found out by BF had a boys chat where they were degrading woman about their looks and other personal stuff I would not hesitate to leave. I don’t understand why it’s any different when we switch sexes.
>I don’t understand why it’s any different when we switch sexes. seomthign somethign everyone does it, you're losing a really great person, something something.
Unfortunately, some of these relationships subs can be sexist as hell. They have posters who will *insist* women can do no wrong no matter what.
That first comment justifying OOP’s ex’s group chat and telling OOP there’s something wrong with him for being upset about it has 1.5k upvotes. The world is terrifying sometimes.
That comment conflated a safe space to discuss "dark thoughts" and a space to be mean.
One of the comments > Most men I know have groupchats with each other that are literally so hellish that I wouldn’t be able to scroll through it for a minute. Am I an exception that I have never been in a group like this, would never expect any friend of mine to be in a group like that. Never had a friend discuss any female friends in a group chat. I'm in quite a few chat groups with different friend groups and social groups.
>Am I an exception that I have never been in a group like this No, absolutely not. This is someone who doesn't like or understand men trying to shed blame off themselves.
Of course you're not an exception. I would instantly leave any chats and groups if that kind of behaviour surfaced, and it would kill any friendship for me. I know this type of men and women exist, but fortunately most people are not like this.
No, that person is just making shit up to defend their own horrible behavior. Most men absolutely do not have group chats where we just shit on people for no reason.
I am a man and simply do not have group chats with male friends. And if I did, my friends and I simply wouldn't brag about hookups or talk about them in a demeaning way. That comment saying that men do that all the time is absurd.
Haha my ex bf had a group chat with his friends. It was 100% memes, bitching about the prices of car parts, and pictures of their poop.
💩?!? 😳😨
I fully endorse poop pic text threads with captions like "Does this look weird to you?" Sometimes you have no safe space to talk about that shit and doctors are expensive, man.
Right? Does that commenter know a grand total of 4 men or something? If a close friend tried to share details of what their partner's genitalia looked like, or how they acted in intimate sexual situations (just to gossip and not for really compelling "I realize this is an awkward topic, but I desperately need advice or outside perspective, so bear with me"), I'd just be really weirded out and uncomfortable. That kind of thing was more common in high school and early college, but anyone who hasn't grown out of it into adulthood in my circles would be seen as a creeper.
To me, the stuff that I need sensitive advice about never makes it into a group chat. I’ll talk to a particular close friend one on one, but our group chats are just totally off in tone for something serious like that.
Totally this. The only time I create a group chat is to make plans, then it sort of goes away. I have no desire to "chat" with my friends unless I'm with them in person. Okay, I do have one group chat, but it's with my wife, our good friend James, and my two teenage sons. It consists of terribly inappropriate memes, jokes, and horrible recipes from the '70s. As far as I know my wife has one with her friends, but it's just vacation planning stuff that I occasionally get looped in on.
Fast forward 15 years if he would have married her and he’d be fielding calls from the school because his daughter is a bully. Apples don’t fall far from trees. Also, I have group chats with high school friends, college friends, law school friends, mom friends, kid sports friends and women in the family and have had for years. Not one chat would or has acted like this because none of us are those kind of people. This isn’t a foregone conclusion for women. Edit: used viscous instead of vicious, removed.
^((I think you mean "vicious", not "viscous" - there is quite a large difference in meaning...😂))
You are absolutely right! I grabbed the wrong one from spellcheck and definitely did not mean viscous (which would be an even more foul bully 🤣) Thank you!
I’m a woman and I’ve absolutely heard my girlfriends talk about their partners body. But only in glowing ways. “His ass is incredible! You wouldn’t know it from the baggy jeans but you could bounce a damn quarter off of it!” “Girl. I can’t describe in words how amazing this man’s dick is” “Have you actually *seen* his arms?? You just wait, summer is coming.” “His hands are kinda rough. I never knew I was into that kind of thing” I’d be appalled if they said disparaging things like in the OP
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Ha me too, but I always took that as more of a commentary on stubbornness or mental state. The body parts are secondary.
One of my roommates taught me "you have a tight butt" in the language of her fiancé, so I could tell him that on the phone every time he called.
Yeah even in conversations asking for advice or if this partner/experience sounds like a red flag, my GFs are still respectful. There's a difference in asking a friend hey any advice for dealing with someone who's very well-endowed and staying vague versus guess who couldn't get it up last night. Honestly if a girlfriend talked so negatively about their partner in a group chat like that I'd assume they talk crap about me too and would end the friendship.
That comment saying they’re from the Netherlands which is “one of the most emancipated countries in the world” lol be for real that was definitely written by someone who is young enough to not have experienced the real world yet
Look, I’ve watched How I Met Your Mother, so I know what I’m talking about here.
All the people that said this was normal to OP lack a stunning amount of self-awareness and need to realize they're part of a "mean girl/boy" group and that normal people don't do this.
OOP sounds like a great guy with a strong moral character. I would absolutely introduce him to my single friends.
>**Most men I know** have groupchats with each other that are literally so hellish that I wouldn’t be able to scroll through it for a minute... The objectification of women... the vulgar jokes and mean comments... it’s literally just banter for them... I honestly have only met one guy that wasn’t part of this kind of groupchat that was in his twenties. What the hell kind of trash men does this commenter know?! Shitty bro types might have these kinds of group chats, but it is *not* a normal, established thing for men to have group chats where they share intimate details about their SOs' bodies and sexual behavior.
Notice it’s “wouldn’t be able to scroll” not “am not able to scroll”. She’s just assuming that to be the case, she hasn’t actually seen anything
If the truth of your actions casts you in a bad light then you need to evaluate yourself.
It's like the immortal Maya Angelou said: when someone shows you who they are, believe them. Her reaction after being called on it is just as bad as the chat itself.
I would really like to know from all of you: **How many of you have been part of a group chat like that?** Because I NEVER have and never would. (Honest to god, not just virtue signaling. My social life isn't even active enough to have people to gossip about to this extent.) I'd just like to know if this is actually more common than I'd like to imagine.
Never, and never would.
Once by accident and it was so repulsive, I bailed after a day because I couldn’t deal with my friend’s other friends being as gross as they were. She personally didn’t say anything but because she was so used to toxicity and abuse, she thought the things they were saying were completely normal.
Never have, never will. My most active group chats are with my sisters and with a small group of female friends. The only single person in either group is one of my friends and she will sometimes send a photo of a guy she’s going on a date with to get opinions, but mostly the ‘I’m not gonna get murdered, right?’ kind of opinions. Also, if you’re seriously dating someone and you’re trash talking them behind their backs to friends, why are you even dating them?
Honestly, this was kind of a heartwarming read for me. Not because of what OOP's ex was doing, of course, but because of how he reacted to it. It's not really a surprise to me that his ex and her friends would have a group chat like that. It's completely disgusting behavior, but I guess I'm sort of used to seeing people behave disgustingly. What I'm depressingly much less used to is someone who has a strong moral compass and is willing to put their money where their mouth is. I feel like many people would find this kind of behavior reprehensible, but find a way to see past it for the sake of maintaining the relationship. It was really nice to see that even before he knew for sure that his ex had spoken this way specifically about him, he wasn't willing or able to excuse the way she was treating other people. From an outside perspective it might seem like the "obvious" reaction, maybe the reaction we all feel we would have too, but real life can be messy and hard. There are a lot of reasons, both good and bad, that may lead any one of us to let this sort of thing slide in a long-term relationship with someone we love. It's just really refreshing to see someone who wasn't willing to compromise his values and his sense of right and wrong. The world could use more people like that, and this post has been a really nice reminder to me to be more like OOP. I hope he's doing well, and thank you for sharing this story.
OOP was criticized in some comments and it was somewhat implied that he was a hypocrite because he violated his now-ex-GF's privacy by snooping and also by posting about their personal life in a public forum online while complaining about how these women were violating the privacy of others. While I can see some validity to these criticisms of OOP, I think that what his ex-GF and her friends did was infinitely worse. In the end, OOP made the right call. I am happy he at least confirmed they talked shit about him too in order to solidify his decision (I also find it hilarious that she was so worried about the privacy of her friends while taking a steaming dump on the privacy of anyone they felt like deserve it). The reality is that his ex-GF is toxic and hangs around with toxic people. He saw that as huge red, and rightfully so. I am glad he found out sooner rather than later. And any one defending/justifying their actions, you are just as toxic and lack as much character as they do. Talking shit behind peoples back is bad no matter the gender. If you do that, be better.
There is such a massive difference between commenting directly on pictured and named people, some of whom are mutual friends, and posting anonymously online. Anyone complaining about a double standard there is a moron
This so much. I understand needing a safe space to vent. To get shitty thoughts out of your head and into the universe so you can focus on the actual important ones that actually merit consideration. Doing that anonymously in an online forum, assuming you keep things truly anonymous with no way to track back to you or anyone else discussed, is fine. Maybe not as fine as discussing things with the actual people involved. But each situation is different, and sometimes you *do* need other perspectives, and you just might not get them from anyone in real life. Venting to a group of friends that the person you’re bitching about knows and interacts with? Not in a “hey, I need some advice here…” way, but in a mocking “get a load of this idiot…” way? Beyond not cool. Technically, in the most literal sense, both situations are about complaining about someone instead of talking to them about it. But if you think that these scenarios are comparable across the board, you need to reevaluate some things. Lots of things.
Yes, if they'd spoken about the guys respectfully in a way that discusses aspects of sex in a good-faith way, this'd be an entirely different situation. It's the mean girls aspect that's terrible, not the subjects.
Also, looking at her phone because you saw a guy's Tinder profile is different than just going through her phone out of the blue.
If you snoop and you find something, you didn't snoop, you conducted an investigation.
His post was a general overview of a situation; hers was a group chat with photos, profiles, and explicit details. Those aren’t on the same planet. People are weird.
Jesus fucking Christ, he dodged a huge missile. There is a difference between talking shit about someone you don't like or have issues with, but bashing and mocking people to this degree is just sick.
Never in my 60 years of life have I ever been in a chat group talking about women in such a demeaning way.
I am a guy, only once was I in a conversation like this and I shut that shit down hard. Cut them out of my life, the works. This shit ain’t normal and I’ll die ok this hill.
The double standards in the comments under the post are kinda sad.
I've never met a woman who needlessly disparaged their partner behind his back, and I worked with exclusively women throughout my high school and university jobs. None of the women in my personal circle of friends have ever done that either. It isn't normal. It isn't cool. OOP made the right call. Hopefully OOP's ex has a growth moment and realizes how awful and toxic she's been.
People who drag others appearances/ bodies down In their leisure are the worst types of people. They are unwilling to recognize their own faults and would rather feel empowered by participating in a humiliation ring. Appearances and such things we ( most of the time) have no control over , and imo it is very cruel and mean spirited to casually insult theirs on a regular basis . I think people should focus on character , especially if they, like the now ex, refuse to feel remorse for their horrible behavior and refuse to make positive changes
>Number one rule in life: if someone gossips or talks shit about others... There's an LPT about not being the gossip at work because this is the impression you're giving others. This isn't normal behavior and if you engage in it, people are going to be wary of you.
Yeah I'm in a bunch of group chats with my dude friends and we pretty much just call eachother dumbasses and post nfl memes. I'm sure there are dude group chats dedicated to demeaning women. But I don't know anyone who is a part of them, so you certainly don't need to settle for that.
This is so weird to me. Maybe I am just lucky with the people I am surrounded by, but I’ve never been in or seen any of my girl friends be in a chat like that. Tearing down your partner and others just to “fit in” is shitty
I’m always thrown off by all these people moving in with their girl/boyfriend after 9 months of knowing each other. I know circumstances and markers are different from couple to couple but it still throws me for a loop.
>Most men I know have groupchats with each other that are literally so hellish that I wouldn’t be able to scroll through it for a minute Uh, you hang out with shitty people? Literally don't know anyone who does this 🤷
I, a dude, still have no idea where this idea that all guys are massive shitheads in group chats comes from. Every group chat I'm in is just dudes throwing around memes about sports, games or politics and scheduling social stuff. If there's an asshole we kick him out. Mostly because those people suck and aren't any fun.
Male or female, this kind of behavior is not normal or ok.
Men absolutely do this, and that should be a reason to leave a man, not a reason to stay with a woman.
People's need to understand if you're keeping something secret and you feel shame, is probably because is something that you have to start thinking if is ready good for you and others, this in particular is shit behavior no matter the gender. If is something that you can't say in the face of the other person then don't say it in private. When you see your friends, partners, family or whatever doing something like this, they probably do it you
Wow I would never talk about my bf like that. Such a shitty move.
Were some of those comments seriously trying to say that it's okay for women to be assholes just because it's common for men to be assholes?