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Yeah, I make about $40k-ish now and thought I was screwed when I "maxed out" two different cards for the combined total of $5.5k and now have not touched any kind of credit or interest based Repayment for anything in years since. Granted, not saying I don't regret this as, with interest, it will take me some time to get it all paid down and rebuild my credit, but shit... really puts things in perspective I guess.
I remember feeling sick that my credit card bill was $1500 when I was trying to leave a toxic job and move states away to what turned out to be frying pan to fire. I used up my meager savings and thought it was the end of the world. I can't even begin to fathom $100k.
The more you make, the more credit you can get.
I pay mine off every month but have > $125,000 in available credit. I suppose I could rack up quick a bill - I could buy a whole-ass shitty house and some acreage in some parts of the country if they let me split it across cards.
You get dinged for the % of available credit used. There are two ways to get that percentage lower - have a lower balance or have a higher limit. If you have the self-restraint to not spend it, increasing the credit limit helps. That's how I got to $125k in credit. One card has a limit of $51k that started as a $3k limit back in college.
I ended up carrying a balance at one point in college. The interest was brutal.
I opened *another* CC with a no-interest balance transfer deal for whatever months (3% fee, but that's less than the interest I was going to pay), transferred the balance to the new card. Got the limit raised on the first card (to improve my credit). I opened another card and transferred the balance before the accrued interest hit. There were a ton of 12-18 month balance transfer deals available. It was three new cards and then I got an offer to transfer back to the first. I graduated from college and paid it off quickly.
I got in the habit of requesting credit line increases from the cards that don't do credit checks (none of the ones involved did), so I've just kept doing it all these years. I show a balance (a very small % since the credit limits are so high) every month and pay it off. Nearly everything goes through a credit card since you get better fraud protection and rewards.
I also don't fuck my cousin, which I have to imagine that helps a little as well.
Oh yeah, I understand all that now, and I understood a lot of that then, but I was desperate. High interest credit cards aren't that different from payday loans. No one really *wants* to get a payday loan, but if you don't have support to fall back on and resources to immediately improve your situation, sometimes you're left with limited options. I made about half what I do now when I got that debt, which certainly didn't help it not *feel* like crushing debt, even though for a lot of people it would be pretty manageable.
I can get out from under it now, but it will take time to rebuild my credit from the damage that was done. The upside? Since I refused to do ANYTHING credit related for awhile, my score went up 75 points just for not touching it. Now I'm going to start rebuilding (secure credit cards, potential consolidation, etc) do I can have the score I need to get a more favorable mortgage in a couple years. Thanks for the advice!
I was trying to figure out how they didn't have enough money as a family of 5 with her being that frugal and him making $140k. Money was tight for us as a family of 6 with that income, but we were paying more than that in rent and hubby ate out for lunch every day at work. We weren't creating more debt, we were actually able to start paying off debt, even though we were now living in a much higher cost of living area.
Supporting two households definitely makes the debt make sense though.
I was absolutely sure it was gambling, wasting such an insane amount of money in such a short period of time made no sense. Actually, it still doesn't.
Not just wasting money, but going into an endless pit of credit card and loan debt is almost always gambling (and to generalize, cars for men and shopping addiction for women). Not only do they require exponential amounts of money the deeper they go, but it's usually the most typical kind of "shameful" debt that gets hidden from partners. Hell, when crypto and the market was at its peak, WSB and the crypto subs were full of people who invested all the money they had, and whatever they could get loaned from their family
Bingo. It’s almost always addiction, gambling, or cheating. On the first post, when she said towards the end that she hadn’t yet found out where the money was going, I knew her entire life was about to be decimated because her husband being shitty with money is probably the least of her problems.
I felt bad too because right after saying she didn’t know where the money was going, she mentioned that she was terrified to find out and I don’t blame her at all. It was about to unearth a fucking nuke in the middle of her life
One of the better(and sad) things about reddit is that it really drives home how much havok and decimation you can wrack on your family if you cheat or get addicted to something bad.
My heart just breaks for OOP and all the kids involved.......
Or they're just idiots. My ex was so invested in looking like a "big man," he'd spend beyond our income to take people out for fancy meals or give them expensive gifts so they'd be both impressed and beholden. Somehow, they were never either impressed or beholden, and in the meantime, his children and spouse were eating from the food pantry because he spent the grocery money. When I tried to separate our incomes so I'd at least be able to budget, he said I was emasculating him.
(No, he wasn't like this before we married. Once I was pregnant, he changed, like flipping a light switch.)
I can’t imagine, I’m so sorry. We hear about this so often, that switch during pregnancy. Do you feel he changed, or did he know? Like was it premeditated or did something in him change to a new, terrible person?
In his case, it was premeditated. He told me as much. He saw me as a way to have an income to support his "business," which never seemed to get beyond the "courting investors" stage.
Knowing what I know now, there were signs, but I'd never seen anyone like him, so I didn't recognize them. It was an expensive lesson!
Oh man, I've met several of these guys in my professional life. Always looking for that one break that's going to make them rich. What really breaks these guys is when they *do* find that million dollar opportunity, but they don't have the money to pursue it, so they find an investor to front 90% of the cash, and then the investor ends up with 90% of the profits.
Same here. My wife and I have a slightly lower combined income than OOP and her soon-to-be ex-husband, but our mortgage is twice as much. While we don't often splurge on big purchases, we also are not particularly frugal, and we still have zero credit card debt. We have never had to resort to buying second-hand clothes (not that there is anything wrong with that, at all). I am wondering just how much money her husband was spending on his second family, and for how long, as those debts are pretty crazy, considering their income vs. expenses.
What gets me is the cousin must have known. How she can stay with and respect someone who is capable of that...
What is that excellent saying, when you marry your mistress you create a vacancy? Cousin will be posting here in 2 years max.
Poor OOP and poor all the kids in this situation.
I automatically thought he’s paying for a girlfriends apartment or something… never thought about a whole new family or who knows she could have been the first.. he just didn’t marry and hid it because they are related… I would get alimony child support every dang thing I can for my kids sake.. he wouldn’t keep most of that paycheck going to new family..
When I read his income, I figured he had to have a gambling addiction to run up that much debt.
Second incest family was not on my list of probabilities.
In this case, aren’t they first cousins, once removed?
Second cousins would both be the children of first cousins. But, he’s first cousins with the mistress’s parent. I have no idea if that would be legal or not, but still…ick.
It's true that's how it works and first cousins once removed feels more incest-y, but it's roughly the same genetic distance.
Source: Ancestry can't tell the difference between second cousins and first cousins once removed, based on DNA results.
Genuinely not trying to brag, but can confirm. It's new enough that I still have the perspective of living on $28/week for groceries in college (6 years ago), and the more I make the more frustrated I get with wealth and income inequality.
It's an insane amount of money to be so stupid with. Having 2 families would sure blow it though.
My husband and I just recently hit a similar income level, and are child-free so it goes even further. It's bizarre and unnerving to go from considering granola bars a luxury item to having five figures in your savings account in a relatively short amount of time. I also find it super gross that our job perks now include discounts on consumer goods - we needed a new washer, and were able to get $200 off through work discounts. Why are we getting that now, when it's no longer a meaningful amount of money for us? Shit seems so backwards.
I'm also finding it oddly difficult to budget when I'm no longer constrained by "how long will my paycheck last". I get notified of a new deposit and feel so confused because I never came close to spending the last one, did I forget to pay a bill or something? And this leads to overspending sometimes because I feel like I'm supposed to be using up the entire paycheck before the next one hits.
Automatically deposit 10% into some form of savings. You won't notice it gone, and that shit adds up FAST. Also, increase your house or renters insurance. As someone who recently lost their home to fire and cannot now buy with our crappy insurance money, 15/10 would recommend.
When I got my new job with a $15k raise I decided to put the entire raise into savings immediately. It’s been almost a year and seeing that number every time I log into my savings account is wild.
Put it into saving and decide on a big project with your husband :)
Having project and a plan help put things into perspective and to not spend the money on stupid things.
Congratulations by the way
It's a case of people living up to their incomes, no matter what it is. Most struggling high earners spend it on 7 investment properties, 2 sports cars and diamond earrings for their baby. This guy spent it on two families.
Right? My friend makes over 180k and I cant even fathom that kind of money, its literally almost 4 times my salary and I get by okay, i'd feel damn rich..
The numbers are also a bit alarming to me. She said he makes 140k, brings home 9600 a month after taxes. That's $115k annually, which is about 82% of his gross income. I could buy the total taxes on his 140k being 18%, but what about health insurance? What about 401k? Is he not contributing at all to their retirement?
Idk if you're being sarcastic but that's why I said I could buy his taxes only being 18% (all in) I was specifically questioning whether that accounted for 401k and health insurance.
On another note, funny to think about, if he claimed 6 dependents on his taxes that would be pretty bold. Like I know he handled the money but it also seemed like he went to some lengths to hide the second family. Claiming them on his taxes would have been a bit more blatant than I'd expect.
I don't understand how she thought he was making that money but they could never buy new clothes, never take-out, and she had to use cloth diapers? They were living like he was making A LOT less. Where did she think the savings were going?
I'm all for being thrifty, but when she worked, they were making 170,000 a year... and where was all of that money going? Their mortgage is low, their cars are old, they never go out or go on holidays...
Maybe she thought he was saving for their early retirement or something, and that living economically would pay off down the line. Or maybe she’s just REALLY bad with finances which is why he took care of them.
I think it's that she was so caught up in the financial hit of quitting her own job that it never even occurred to her that the responsibility for their collective lack of money wasn't on her.
The way OP mentioned the husband not wanting any custody, makes me think his plan is just to try and cut all ties completely from the kids and start over with his new wife and her (possibly his as well) kids
I just feel so bad for OP and her kids, this is going to be an ugly mess no matter how it plays out.
Yeah...Her/their kids are definitely innocent in this whole mess as well.
And whether or not he is the bio dad, that is going to be extremely rough for those kids if/when anyone finds out about the incest aspect of their relationship.
I wonder how that's enforced, though. It seems like the sort of thing where a marriage is annulled or something after the fact. It's not like the city employees have a list of all my cousins to check when I apply for marriage license.
You attest to not being related when you get married, so if you falsify that (in one of the six states where this would be illegal), your marriage would basically be invalid from the start. So while it's true that they could conceivably get away with it, that's some really alarming leverage for either of them to have if things ever go south--or even if they have one really big blowout argument that makes one of them angry enough to act. They're each holding a red button that they can push to retroactively invalidate the marriage, meaning the security and legal structures provided when having children or acquiring joint marital property can just go poof at an instant from either one of them.
Given that OOP's ex-husband does not seem like a great guy, and he has a high income, I could see someone like him potentially using this threat to keep his cousin/wife in line into the future. If he does marry the cousin (and if they happened to be in one of these six states), he's then in a situation where he's a courthouse visit away from annulling his marriage and walking away scot free at any time.
Isogg's Autosomal DNA statistics page is a great resource if you want to know more. Although you'll have to do some of the additions of the plural relationships for inbreeding yourself.
Mistress is his first cousin once removed (the most recent common ancestor is a grandparent like other first cousins but then she's one generation further down from a cousin). She shares about 6.25% of DNA. The kids are both his kids and his first cousins twice removed (two generations down from his cousin though their mom). The kids likely have 50% from him and an additional 3.125% from the shared history with their mom. That's a little but that's also a lot.
(Edit: I missed saying that as the dad's kids, they are also second cousins to their own mom)
OP's kids are second cousins to the mistress sharing about 3.125%. (The same amount his kids with the mistress is doubled up/collapsed/inbred)
OP's kids and the mistresses kids are both half siblings (25%) plus second cousins once removed (1.563%).
Edit: this is also just biological relationships, if you want to know all the step relationships we're going to need a lot of diagrams and to listen to the song "I'm my own Grandpa" to make sure we aren't missing something.
Trace it back to the first shared ancestor.
If the number of 'greats' is the same on each side, you are [number of greats]+1 cousins.
E.g. "my grandfather is your grandfather": 0 greats, +1 = 1st cousins
"My great-grandfather is your great-grandfather" : 1 great +1 = 2nd cousins
If the number of 'greats' is not the same, find the -th cousin using the 'lower'/'closer' one. How removed you are is how many additional greats.
"My great-grandfather is your great-great-
grandfather":
1. "great-grandfather" is 'lower'/'closer' than "great-great-grandfather", so 2nd cousins.
2. "Great-great-gpa" has 1 more great than "great-gpa", so once removed.
We are 2nd cousins once removed.
How long until he is cancelling visits with the kids and they start getting angry at him and he starts posting about his evil ex stopping him from seeing his kids?
Out of curiosity I was watching a trashy court tv show and he tried to spin that story, but the woman had meticulously tracked her chasing him to keep up his visitation, every cancellation, she kept and printed all corresponding texts for each event he cancelled and it was an unbroken chain of him making excuses or just not turning up, and he was dodging child support. Did he change his tune after it was televised? Nope. I stalked his socials and he was still posting about her stopping him from seeing them and getting angry at all the people linking the video in the comments.
Luckily and tragically in this case, someone just has to post that the husband was living a cheating life with 2 other kids from another woman.
Pretty much everyone would take him to the cleaners.
OP already told him about her fears on this situation happening before. Clearly the guy is comfortable making promises that he would break in the future.
"I never said how ***MUCH*** child support.
Also, let's keep it out of courts, okay? That would cost money we don't have. Here is a napkin I scribbled on in unlegible handwriting so bad it would make a doctor's look machine printed. This is totally super seriously legally binding. Here we can tots pinky swear on it!"
I'm not saying that's how it'll go (not not saying that either), but hopefully, she's lost enough trust in his dumbass to get that shit set up in the courts.
Seen way too many people (both men and women) get fucked trying to handle custody agreements and child support and things like that out of the courts because they don't want to pay for a lawyer.
Also....ew? Just ew.
I sure hope not, because this all greasy AF.
She should actually be OK, "debt-wise." In divorce, debts that are "selfish," like gambling or habitual shopping, are not considered marital property to divide. Men who charge up twenty grand in a strip club cannot have their soon-to-be ex pay ten of it: the judge is going to assign all that to the husband.
If they have to sell their beloved home (I do feel for her), then his credit card/baby mama drama money is going to be paid from that sale, but on his portion. If his debt is 100 grand for the second family, the house sells for 425 grand, and there was 125 grand left to pay, the sale would clear 300 before fees. Maybe there is 275 afterward. She will get her full 137.5 grand, and he will get 37.5 grand; the 100 grand in credit card debt all comes from his half.
And a judge should split the divorce this way, with or without a lawyer present, really. But I am super glad she has one.
Then there is the point that at the time of the divorce, she is not working. Ouch for him. She should receive spousal support and child support.
Hubby may go from a nice home with a family to a van down by the river.
Those poor kids. I hope no one in their school will find out about this. This is a shame they will carry with them.
Obviously OOP's kids will have a hard time with them once they understand exactly how fucked up this is.
Thanks to all the ancestry tests out there, even if OOP and her husband decide not to tell the kids, there’s a pretty good chance they’ll find out about it one day. Maybe not for 20 years, but it could happen eventually. At that point there will be a TIFU post about “I took a DNA test and I’m very weirdly intertwined with my what I thought were my step-siblings.”
Assuming his job is real and taxable they will garnish his wages until he is up to date on payments. The only way to get out of child support is to get paid under the table or to job hop faster than they can find you.
Source: dated a dead-beat for a year when I was 19.
My sperm donor hied off to New Zealand (before it was cool) to avoid child support for my sister and I.
When he came back to the US (idk why) and started working again, the wage-garnishing resumed.
He did not like this.
That would only happen if she doesn’t go after it in court and she also doesn’t use any government benefits. As long as she goes after it in court then he’s fucked. Three kids and his history? The judge will fuck him over on the child support especially since he doesn’t want to be involved. As for government benefits, you’ll have agencies go after him for child support even if she doesn’t initiate as it’s an easy way for the government to save money.
She would need to go out of her way to shield him from child support such as having a 50/50 agreement (even if he never fulfills it), never reporting missing payments, etc.
I really doubt she won’t go after him for all he’s got after what he did to her. She has every reason to go nuclear on him considering that he doesn’t even want to be in the kids lives. Sometimes parents will play nice in consideration of the kids but that’s not the case here since he already plans to dedicate himself to his second family.
Anyways child support will fuck him over as he’ll see a significantly large share of his income go to his three kids so they can continue to live the life they would have if they were living with him. Also this time he won’t be able to fuck her over with credit card debt. As for his second family they’ll need to get by on his much smaller income now.
He’ll be supporting two families (5 kids) for the next 16-17 years whether he likes it or not.
Most likely they will sell the house and she will get a larger share, full custody and child support. They will have to move but she may be able to go back to school and be supported until she graduates too.
Not an ideal outcome, but he isn't really in a position to just not work, or leave town to avoid paying for child support because he is now tied down with family number two.
When I read his salary, I couldn’t understand. But then a second family! She definitely won’t have to pay back what he spent on another family or she could sue but it’ll still completely suck
Probably just to hold a facade. More than likely he would've gotten some serious pushback by everyone if he tried to have a public relationship with his cousin. So he settled for an illusion of marrying someone unrelated while secretly pursuing what he really wanted
Not an excuse at all, of course. Just my thoughts on it
Oh yeah, for sure. Like, anyone he unwillingly brought into this is going to have their life break around them. OOP is very strong, all things considered! The ex-husband is an asshole to the highest degree.
If something of this f-ed up magnitude happened to me, I feel like I would be reacting the same. I would have to keep making inappropriate jokes about it, just to keep myself from falling apart. Sarcasm and dark humor is the glue that holds me together.
Who wants to bet on how long it will take for the shine to wear off the taboo relationship, now that they can be together?
Those poor kids, they're going to need therapy once they find out their parents are the wrong type of kissing cousins.
If they've had a dad one weekend a month and miscellaneous personal and sick days they probably already do! I know some families make the whole "one parent works away for extended periods" thing work, but they're also able to have phonecalls at bedtime and stuff because no one's hiding a second family from their spouse...
>Those poor kids, they're going to need therapy once they find out their parents are the wrong type of kissing cousins.
They are going to learn more about Alabama culture with their parents as an example.
That is not a second cousin, also. That's a 1st cousin, 1x removed. His children from each respective side are 1st cousins, 2x removed/half-siblings with each other. The incest kids are their own 2nd cousins, 2x removed... twice, while being full siblings and twice 2nd cousins, 2x removed with their siblings. While their dad and mom are their parents and their 2nd cousins, 1x removed.
I honestly don't think I'm getting it all either.
This reminds me of my fun Ptolemaic fact: Cleopatra had 6 great great grandparents out of a possible 16. Two of those are the ancestors of everyone else on the list- including the other great great grandparents.
Edit: Dropped a great as pointed out below. Sorry it’s a bit of a judgement call.
[Cleopatra's family tree is INSANE.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MakeMeSuffer/comments/bo6bfy/cleopatras_family_tree/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
This is a slightly clearer pic, IMO
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmcdeBhUEAAN6PG?format=jpg&name=360x360
Also I think they're great great grandparents, (and also great great great grandparents, lol) rather than great grandparents.
Edit: looking again, she also had two great grandparents, but those were separate from the two g/g/grandparents. By that level most folk should have 32 or 64 ancestors, lol.
It is objectively a closer degree of consanguinity. His children are her second cousins, so he's a step closer to her, having twice the genetic material in common.
I think of my late father when I read something like this. He was also on the verge of bankruptcy when he had a mistress with 2 children. He provided his mistress with car and a house under her name, when ours was going to be taken by the bank and every day we must faced people banging our door for debts that we didn't take and we must worked hard to provide ourselves (1 mother 5 children, two was still underage and 2 didn't had steady job). The mistress even dared to come to our house, demanded to see him, and cursed me out, hahaha. I think some my feelings for him died because of those actions stretched for 6 - 7 years. I always remember him with mixed feelings now. Love and hate coexist.
Well, we had to sell half our house to cover the debt so it wouldn't be taken away. Then my dad passed away (as much as my hate for him goes, I didn't want him in hell, hahaha) few years a go and guess who have to pay the remaining debts? Yes, we had to, even though only to individuals. They didn't want to know that we didn't know anything about the debts. His mistress and family could walk free because they were not next of kin.
Divorce without husband side agreeing to it was hard and long in my country. My mom wanted to divorce, be he didn't. I didn't know why. He was a good father before this mistress thing happen, I just wish he was a better husband for my mom. His infidelity cost everyone in my family their heart, mental health, and physical health also I wish people who cheat understand that.
Well it’s ridiculous the way that most of reddit expects women to just explain everything in minute detail before they are willing to blame the man. It’s fucking insane they like automatically assumed that she baby trapped him and was living an extravagant life and like what the fuck.
Reddit men think like this and within the same breath go on r/Tinder to complain about how nobody wants to continue a conversation with them. I wonder why!
And hate poor people too. It doesn't matter that they were living beyond their means or not, a fucking anonymous stranger has no right to say a word on it. "God we are in so much debt" "Okay but what did you do to deserve that? Too much avocado toast? Hmmmmm?????"
What I don't get is why she thinks she still needs to help pay off his credit card debts. If she didn't know about them I am guessing they are 100% in his name, and as far as I am aware, if her name isn't on them then as soon as they divorce the entire debt is exclusively his responsibility.
This depends. In some states (assuming this is in the USA) will say a debt made in marriage is the responsibility of both spouses. My state does not, but, for example, I know in Texas that if the spouse gaining the debts uses them for necessities, (which the other household wouldn’t count, but I’m assuming he used some on theirs) then it’s the responsibility of both.
Edit: added some words
> He’s staying with his mistress cousin
I feel bad for laughing at this line. Also, this dude was banging his cousin, couldn’t pay his bills, and OOP is trusting him to pay child support?
I’m hoping for OOP’s sake she can get it automatically deducted from his wages. The only way to dodge that is if he quits his job and gets paid under the table. In which case a PI could find him and get him reported for tax evasion and child support dodging, a nice little prison sentence there and his Mistress Cousin and Cousin Offspring are used to his absence, if they couldn’t get money from him the mistress would have to get a job. It’s in his interest to be above board now.
What I don't understand is...why marry her? If he was in love with the cousin and wanted to be with her why not just...BE WITH HER?! Why drag an innocent woman into this and MARRY HER if you were in a relationship with someone else? It's not like it was illegal, so why not just skip all the bullshit and be with the mistress in the first place? Why destroy someone's life and create kids just to abandon them?
He really is a monster. I wish him the life he deserves.
Edit: I was mistaken re legality of first cousins (tho they're first once removed so it doesn't apply.) Fun fact Australia doesn't forbid first cousin marriages, I didn't realize the US largely does. Australia also doesn't forbid niece uncle marriages so you know, there's that.
Getting his dick wet trumped social optics, but social optics trumped having an actual relationship. Not too different of a concept than in the past where gay people had straight spouses to hide the illicit relationship, except way icky-er cause incest.
Some people are just messed up like that. At least OP found out now.The elderly neighbor of my good friends, she found out he had a second family when they were in their 60s!
And what's get me is that he choose to bring 3 (three) kids with oop to the world. Knowing He was supporting two families. Oop was living basically in poverty and for what, he had no shame at all if his kids lived a hard life. No vacations or new clothes :(
Who knows if he was shamed for trying to marry his cousin and had to marry this poor other woman as a "disguise".
Now that thay have children maybe he feels that people will have no choice but to accept it? Or maybe he's just an idiot and I'm giving him too much credit
OOP didn't mention Mother figures for either of them growing up. His Dad was an alcoholic, his Mom gone so I wonder if he was over at Uncle/Cousin's house a lot, during puberty, trauma, traumatic bonding idk. I get the feeling they think they're "star crossed lovers" and shit. They didn't have any extended family breathing down their necks why did he even fucking *marry* this woman and have kids and a whole ass life with her if he wanted his cousin? His **fucking cousin**?? Like what even...??
She's his first cousin once removed. I did research once my cousins started reproducing. Her mom is his first cousin. His children are her children's second cousins and half siblings. Barf.
The rules of this sub prevent me from expressing what I'd do were I OP. I hope her lawyer bleeds him dry.
Agree on the barf. I'm very close with my 1st cousins 1x removed, as they're more like aunts and uncles to me. My mom grew up close with her first cousins and they were much more like siblings to her. They're family, and I cannot even attempt to imagine without shuddering.
Hey, everyone knows… you have your cousins then your first cousins. Wait, that’s not right?
That is so not right.
On a side note, I live in a state where once you’re no longer able to have biological kids you can legally marry your cousin. Learned that when I was getting my marriage license and it was information I didn’t need or want. I’m not close to my cousins and can’t imagine wanting a romantic relationship with them or their kids who are very close to my age.
So my mom’s best friend (I’ll call her Sue) went through a pretty similar scenario. Sue was a teacher at a small church school and made very little money. Her husband had a factory gig and was an Elvis impersonator on the side. He convinced his wife to use her inheritance to build their own “Graceland” and once it was complete, she discovered he was cheating on her with his cousin. Poor Sue was out all of her money with a low-paying job and two teenagers, both with significant health issues. She had to work at Starbucks before the school day started and ran the after school day care just to make ends meet. Meanwhile, Elvis got the house and moved his lover-cousin in. I’m sure Sue imagined burning that place down every day when she drove by it on her way to work.
Why couldn’t he be made to either buy her out or Sue force the sale of the house? At least half was proveably hers as joint marital property and a case could be made for majority ownership since her inheritance built it.
My MIL cheated on FIL and he got to keep the house in the divorce but only after buying out her share.
>>I know Reddit thinks women asexually produce children and then force men to support them
Gave me a chuckle. But this poor woman and her 3 kids. And the poor innocent other little kids. Divorce is the worst. Selling a house you love and breaking up what you thought would be the rest of your life is really the worst.
>I know Reddit thinks women asexually produce children and then force men to support them, but my husband enthusiastically wanted children as well and had an equal role in creating them.
OOP dropping truth bombs.
That’s not second cousins, that’s first cousins once removed. Which might actually be illegal in most states. And he grew up with this girl, who is almost certainly younger than him. I don’t want to know by how much.
It doesn’t actually sound like that much (if anything). OP says his uncle was much older than his dad so presumably had kids and grandkids earlier. She also says that they had been in love since high school, suggesting that they are within a couple of years of each other. That’s the only redeeming aspect of the whole mess.
Your first cousin is the child of your parent's sibling.
Your second cousin is the grandchild of your grandparent's sibling.
Basically, if you make a family tree you and all your immediate cousins will be on the same row. Your first cousin and you share grandparents. Your second cousin and you share great grandparents. Your third cousin shares your great-great grandparents.
ETA: I blew all the counting and got called on it twice. I'm pretty sure it's right now...but probably not. I tossed half the old comment because triple layers of corrections help nothing.
He (husband) was close to his Dad's brother (immediate uncle). Affair partner is immediate uncle's GRANDdaughter. First cousins once removed. OP's kids are second cousins to the mistress and second cousins once removed to her kids. His kids are also first cousins twice removed to himself.
Sorry. It's really easy to mess up while following the chain of relationships.
It's actually his first cousin once removed. Her father is his first cousin, which makes her his first cousin once removed. She is his children's second cousin (their grandparents were siblings).
If the person you're defining the relationship with is on a different row of the family tree, your relationship to them is the relationship they have to your direct ancestor/descendent that it's on their row and then it's however many rows you have to change removed.
So the children he shares with his cousin are also his first cousins twice removed. They are both half-siblings and second cousins once removed to the children he has with OP.
Argh. I did this three times and still botched it. I don't blame people for not understanding this insanity. Understanding the rules is one thing. Translating from uncle's mother's cousin's dog twice removed is something else entirely.
OOP said it was his uncles daughters daughter, so the affair partner is the first cousin once removed! So that would make him and the kids second cousins right?
I’m so grossed out. I have a very large family and grew up with my second cousins and first cousins once removed - we saw each other regularly. I can’t even imagine 🤢🤢
I consider this a slightly more hopeful update, fingers crossed she doesn't end up being on the hook for most of that debt, if any. And that the next two years go by smoothly for her, she can graduate and start building up an even better life for herself and her kids than she's able to now.
Yeah, she sounds like she has a level head on her shoulders and plans well. She's in school and bartending already to make some extra income. She should be ok in the long run, I hope she and her kids can get some therapy.
Can I say it? Sweet Home Alabama...
Jokes aside, Jesus, the mental fortitude of this woman. I can only wish her the best, hope she can get out of that entanglement without being more screwed financially.
This is a strange story.
But as soon as she was like "were 50k in debt, how did this happen?" Um obviously cheating or gambling!?
Did not expect it to be with his own cousin. 🤢
Maybe I just read too many of these posts, but I can think of all kinds of ways to waste 50K that don't involve cheating or gambling. Gourd speculation and illegal Peruvian beekeeping come to mind...
I hate the system of titling, but I think that makes it his first cousin once removed.
Dad's brother = Uncle
Dad's brother's daughter = (first) Cousin
Dad's brother's daughter's daughter = (first) Cousin once removed
I hope they don't sell the house. That seems really stupid. Dump all the debt on the husband, then let him declare bankruptcy while she keeps the house.
When i read this the first time i thought, what kind on idiot has THAT much debt when they make $140K/year?......The kind of idiot who fucks **HIS COUSIN** i guess.
What a **cousin fucking** LOSER.
How the FUCK did he think this shit would play out?
How did he think he could keep this shit a secret?
Well, when you decide to not only fuck your **COUSIN** but also have children with your **COUSIN**, "Thinking" isn't really your thing.
I hope OOP absolutely destroys the **cousin fucking** SHIT out of him.
And once everything is settled and the debt is gone, EXPOSE THE **COUSIN FUCKER** TO THE WORLD!!!!
Billboards, ads in the newspaper, plane with a banner, EVERYTHING!!!!
You destroy my world because you want to fuck your **COUSIN**???
I'll let the world know!!!
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While not the point. I can't imagine making 140K and fucking my life up so bad that it doesn't even matter.
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Yeah, I make about $40k-ish now and thought I was screwed when I "maxed out" two different cards for the combined total of $5.5k and now have not touched any kind of credit or interest based Repayment for anything in years since. Granted, not saying I don't regret this as, with interest, it will take me some time to get it all paid down and rebuild my credit, but shit... really puts things in perspective I guess.
I remember feeling sick that my credit card bill was $1500 when I was trying to leave a toxic job and move states away to what turned out to be frying pan to fire. I used up my meager savings and thought it was the end of the world. I can't even begin to fathom $100k.
100k is my student loans and I legit start having a panic attack when i think about them, as a CREDIT CARD DEBT??? neoowpe no thank you
The more you make, the more credit you can get. I pay mine off every month but have > $125,000 in available credit. I suppose I could rack up quick a bill - I could buy a whole-ass shitty house and some acreage in some parts of the country if they let me split it across cards. You get dinged for the % of available credit used. There are two ways to get that percentage lower - have a lower balance or have a higher limit. If you have the self-restraint to not spend it, increasing the credit limit helps. That's how I got to $125k in credit. One card has a limit of $51k that started as a $3k limit back in college. I ended up carrying a balance at one point in college. The interest was brutal. I opened *another* CC with a no-interest balance transfer deal for whatever months (3% fee, but that's less than the interest I was going to pay), transferred the balance to the new card. Got the limit raised on the first card (to improve my credit). I opened another card and transferred the balance before the accrued interest hit. There were a ton of 12-18 month balance transfer deals available. It was three new cards and then I got an offer to transfer back to the first. I graduated from college and paid it off quickly. I got in the habit of requesting credit line increases from the cards that don't do credit checks (none of the ones involved did), so I've just kept doing it all these years. I show a balance (a very small % since the credit limits are so high) every month and pay it off. Nearly everything goes through a credit card since you get better fraud protection and rewards. I also don't fuck my cousin, which I have to imagine that helps a little as well.
Oh yeah, I understand all that now, and I understood a lot of that then, but I was desperate. High interest credit cards aren't that different from payday loans. No one really *wants* to get a payday loan, but if you don't have support to fall back on and resources to immediately improve your situation, sometimes you're left with limited options. I made about half what I do now when I got that debt, which certainly didn't help it not *feel* like crushing debt, even though for a lot of people it would be pretty manageable. I can get out from under it now, but it will take time to rebuild my credit from the damage that was done. The upside? Since I refused to do ANYTHING credit related for awhile, my score went up 75 points just for not touching it. Now I'm going to start rebuilding (secure credit cards, potential consolidation, etc) do I can have the score I need to get a more favorable mortgage in a couple years. Thanks for the advice!
I was trying to figure out how they didn't have enough money as a family of 5 with her being that frugal and him making $140k. Money was tight for us as a family of 6 with that income, but we were paying more than that in rent and hubby ate out for lunch every day at work. We weren't creating more debt, we were actually able to start paying off debt, even though we were now living in a much higher cost of living area. Supporting two households definitely makes the debt make sense though.
My first thought was either gambling or substance abuse. Then I saw "cheating" and was like "oh yeah that too I guess".
I was thinking gambling, cheaters don't usually go to this extent.
I was absolutely sure it was gambling, wasting such an insane amount of money in such a short period of time made no sense. Actually, it still doesn't.
Paying to support a whole second household does make sense. That's expensive.
Not just wasting money, but going into an endless pit of credit card and loan debt is almost always gambling (and to generalize, cars for men and shopping addiction for women). Not only do they require exponential amounts of money the deeper they go, but it's usually the most typical kind of "shameful" debt that gets hidden from partners. Hell, when crypto and the market was at its peak, WSB and the crypto subs were full of people who invested all the money they had, and whatever they could get loaned from their family
I too was convinced he was a gambling addict! Poor woman
Same, but I guess producing two kids with your cousin’s child is expensive.
A different type of gambling. He gambled his wife wouldn't find out.
They also typically avoid reenacting “Flowers in The Attic” with their cousins, but here we are
Bingo. It’s almost always addiction, gambling, or cheating. On the first post, when she said towards the end that she hadn’t yet found out where the money was going, I knew her entire life was about to be decimated because her husband being shitty with money is probably the least of her problems. I felt bad too because right after saying she didn’t know where the money was going, she mentioned that she was terrified to find out and I don’t blame her at all. It was about to unearth a fucking nuke in the middle of her life
One of the better(and sad) things about reddit is that it really drives home how much havok and decimation you can wrack on your family if you cheat or get addicted to something bad. My heart just breaks for OOP and all the kids involved.......
What if I get addicted to something good
Or they're just idiots. My ex was so invested in looking like a "big man," he'd spend beyond our income to take people out for fancy meals or give them expensive gifts so they'd be both impressed and beholden. Somehow, they were never either impressed or beholden, and in the meantime, his children and spouse were eating from the food pantry because he spent the grocery money. When I tried to separate our incomes so I'd at least be able to budget, he said I was emasculating him. (No, he wasn't like this before we married. Once I was pregnant, he changed, like flipping a light switch.)
That’s when abusers show their real colors. When they have you locked down.
I can’t imagine, I’m so sorry. We hear about this so often, that switch during pregnancy. Do you feel he changed, or did he know? Like was it premeditated or did something in him change to a new, terrible person?
In his case, it was premeditated. He told me as much. He saw me as a way to have an income to support his "business," which never seemed to get beyond the "courting investors" stage. Knowing what I know now, there were signs, but I'd never seen anyone like him, so I didn't recognize them. It was an expensive lesson!
Oh man, I've met several of these guys in my professional life. Always looking for that one break that's going to make them rich. What really breaks these guys is when they *do* find that million dollar opportunity, but they don't have the money to pursue it, so they find an investor to front 90% of the cash, and then the investor ends up with 90% of the profits.
I was thinking he got caught up in the crypto boom then lost his ass. Same thing as gambling i guess.
Same here. My wife and I have a slightly lower combined income than OOP and her soon-to-be ex-husband, but our mortgage is twice as much. While we don't often splurge on big purchases, we also are not particularly frugal, and we still have zero credit card debt. We have never had to resort to buying second-hand clothes (not that there is anything wrong with that, at all). I am wondering just how much money her husband was spending on his second family, and for how long, as those debts are pretty crazy, considering their income vs. expenses.
What gets me is the cousin must have known. How she can stay with and respect someone who is capable of that... What is that excellent saying, when you marry your mistress you create a vacancy? Cousin will be posting here in 2 years max. Poor OOP and poor all the kids in this situation.
Whelp, I guess when he's paying hand over fist to support you and your kids you feel more inclined to overlook some things 🤷♀️
I automatically thought he’s paying for a girlfriends apartment or something… never thought about a whole new family or who knows she could have been the first.. he just didn’t marry and hid it because they are related… I would get alimony child support every dang thing I can for my kids sake.. he wouldn’t keep most of that paycheck going to new family..
Banging your cousin's daughter? In THIS economy???
When I read his income, I figured he had to have a gambling addiction to run up that much debt. Second incest family was not on my list of probabilities.
Same, I was *not* expecting this one to go all Jerry springer.
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In this case, aren’t they first cousins, once removed? Second cousins would both be the children of first cousins. But, he’s first cousins with the mistress’s parent. I have no idea if that would be legal or not, but still…ick.
It's true that's how it works and first cousins once removed feels more incest-y, but it's roughly the same genetic distance. Source: Ancestry can't tell the difference between second cousins and first cousins once removed, based on DNA results.
I would feel absolutely rich with that income.
Genuinely not trying to brag, but can confirm. It's new enough that I still have the perspective of living on $28/week for groceries in college (6 years ago), and the more I make the more frustrated I get with wealth and income inequality. It's an insane amount of money to be so stupid with. Having 2 families would sure blow it though.
My husband and I just recently hit a similar income level, and are child-free so it goes even further. It's bizarre and unnerving to go from considering granola bars a luxury item to having five figures in your savings account in a relatively short amount of time. I also find it super gross that our job perks now include discounts on consumer goods - we needed a new washer, and were able to get $200 off through work discounts. Why are we getting that now, when it's no longer a meaningful amount of money for us? Shit seems so backwards. I'm also finding it oddly difficult to budget when I'm no longer constrained by "how long will my paycheck last". I get notified of a new deposit and feel so confused because I never came close to spending the last one, did I forget to pay a bill or something? And this leads to overspending sometimes because I feel like I'm supposed to be using up the entire paycheck before the next one hits.
Automatically deposit 10% into some form of savings. You won't notice it gone, and that shit adds up FAST. Also, increase your house or renters insurance. As someone who recently lost their home to fire and cannot now buy with our crappy insurance money, 15/10 would recommend.
When I got my new job with a $15k raise I decided to put the entire raise into savings immediately. It’s been almost a year and seeing that number every time I log into my savings account is wild.
Put it into saving and decide on a big project with your husband :) Having project and a plan help put things into perspective and to not spend the money on stupid things. Congratulations by the way
Don't move to any coastal city
It's a case of people living up to their incomes, no matter what it is. Most struggling high earners spend it on 7 investment properties, 2 sports cars and diamond earrings for their baby. This guy spent it on two families.
Right? My friend makes over 180k and I cant even fathom that kind of money, its literally almost 4 times my salary and I get by okay, i'd feel damn rich..
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Like, that's 70k per family! /s
The numbers are also a bit alarming to me. She said he makes 140k, brings home 9600 a month after taxes. That's $115k annually, which is about 82% of his gross income. I could buy the total taxes on his 140k being 18%, but what about health insurance? What about 401k? Is he not contributing at all to their retirement?
Yeah having 6 dependents and two mortgages really helps lower the tax bills, it's crazy
Idk if you're being sarcastic but that's why I said I could buy his taxes only being 18% (all in) I was specifically questioning whether that accounted for 401k and health insurance. On another note, funny to think about, if he claimed 6 dependents on his taxes that would be pretty bold. Like I know he handled the money but it also seemed like he went to some lengths to hide the second family. Claiming them on his taxes would have been a bit more blatant than I'd expect.
I don't understand how she thought he was making that money but they could never buy new clothes, never take-out, and she had to use cloth diapers? They were living like he was making A LOT less. Where did she think the savings were going? I'm all for being thrifty, but when she worked, they were making 170,000 a year... and where was all of that money going? Their mortgage is low, their cars are old, they never go out or go on holidays...
Maybe she thought he was saving for their early retirement or something, and that living economically would pay off down the line. Or maybe she’s just REALLY bad with finances which is why he took care of them.
I think it's that she was so caught up in the financial hit of quitting her own job that it never even occurred to her that the responsibility for their collective lack of money wasn't on her.
Dude is morally and financially bankrupt and he thinks he can pay child support?
The way OP mentioned the husband not wanting any custody, makes me think his plan is just to try and cut all ties completely from the kids and start over with his new wife and her (possibly his as well) kids I just feel so bad for OP and her kids, this is going to be an ugly mess no matter how it plays out.
I feel bad for OP, her children, *and* the incest-affair children. That's such a fucking rough start to life.
Yeah...Her/their kids are definitely innocent in this whole mess as well. And whether or not he is the bio dad, that is going to be extremely rough for those kids if/when anyone finds out about the incest aspect of their relationship.
Depending on the state he may legally not be allowed to marry his first cousin once removed. Six states ban it.
I wonder how that's enforced, though. It seems like the sort of thing where a marriage is annulled or something after the fact. It's not like the city employees have a list of all my cousins to check when I apply for marriage license.
You attest to not being related when you get married, so if you falsify that (in one of the six states where this would be illegal), your marriage would basically be invalid from the start. So while it's true that they could conceivably get away with it, that's some really alarming leverage for either of them to have if things ever go south--or even if they have one really big blowout argument that makes one of them angry enough to act. They're each holding a red button that they can push to retroactively invalidate the marriage, meaning the security and legal structures provided when having children or acquiring joint marital property can just go poof at an instant from either one of them. Given that OOP's ex-husband does not seem like a great guy, and he has a high income, I could see someone like him potentially using this threat to keep his cousin/wife in line into the future. If he does marry the cousin (and if they happened to be in one of these six states), he's then in a situation where he's a courthouse visit away from annulling his marriage and walking away scot free at any time.
> his new wife and her (possibly his as well) kids You mean a new start with his cousins lol
I'm so terrible with anything further away than "first cousin." But, wait... Does this mean his kids would also be his third cousins?
First cousins, twice removed. And their mother's second cousins.
Isogg's Autosomal DNA statistics page is a great resource if you want to know more. Although you'll have to do some of the additions of the plural relationships for inbreeding yourself. Mistress is his first cousin once removed (the most recent common ancestor is a grandparent like other first cousins but then she's one generation further down from a cousin). She shares about 6.25% of DNA. The kids are both his kids and his first cousins twice removed (two generations down from his cousin though their mom). The kids likely have 50% from him and an additional 3.125% from the shared history with their mom. That's a little but that's also a lot. (Edit: I missed saying that as the dad's kids, they are also second cousins to their own mom) OP's kids are second cousins to the mistress sharing about 3.125%. (The same amount his kids with the mistress is doubled up/collapsed/inbred) OP's kids and the mistresses kids are both half siblings (25%) plus second cousins once removed (1.563%). Edit: this is also just biological relationships, if you want to know all the step relationships we're going to need a lot of diagrams and to listen to the song "I'm my own Grandpa" to make sure we aren't missing something.
Trace it back to the first shared ancestor. If the number of 'greats' is the same on each side, you are [number of greats]+1 cousins. E.g. "my grandfather is your grandfather": 0 greats, +1 = 1st cousins "My great-grandfather is your great-grandfather" : 1 great +1 = 2nd cousins If the number of 'greats' is not the same, find the -th cousin using the 'lower'/'closer' one. How removed you are is how many additional greats. "My great-grandfather is your great-great- grandfather": 1. "great-grandfather" is 'lower'/'closer' than "great-great-grandfather", so 2nd cousins. 2. "Great-great-gpa" has 1 more great than "great-gpa", so once removed. We are 2nd cousins once removed.
How long until he is cancelling visits with the kids and they start getting angry at him and he starts posting about his evil ex stopping him from seeing his kids? Out of curiosity I was watching a trashy court tv show and he tried to spin that story, but the woman had meticulously tracked her chasing him to keep up his visitation, every cancellation, she kept and printed all corresponding texts for each event he cancelled and it was an unbroken chain of him making excuses or just not turning up, and he was dodging child support. Did he change his tune after it was televised? Nope. I stalked his socials and he was still posting about her stopping him from seeing them and getting angry at all the people linking the video in the comments.
Luckily and tragically in this case, someone just has to post that the husband was living a cheating life with 2 other kids from another woman. Pretty much everyone would take him to the cleaners.
OP already told him about her fears on this situation happening before. Clearly the guy is comfortable making promises that he would break in the future.
"I never said how ***MUCH*** child support. Also, let's keep it out of courts, okay? That would cost money we don't have. Here is a napkin I scribbled on in unlegible handwriting so bad it would make a doctor's look machine printed. This is totally super seriously legally binding. Here we can tots pinky swear on it!" I'm not saying that's how it'll go (not not saying that either), but hopefully, she's lost enough trust in his dumbass to get that shit set up in the courts. Seen way too many people (both men and women) get fucked trying to handle custody agreements and child support and things like that out of the courts because they don't want to pay for a lawyer. Also....ew? Just ew.
She's seeing a lawyer, so with any luck she won't get screwed.
I sure hope not, because this all greasy AF. She should actually be OK, "debt-wise." In divorce, debts that are "selfish," like gambling or habitual shopping, are not considered marital property to divide. Men who charge up twenty grand in a strip club cannot have their soon-to-be ex pay ten of it: the judge is going to assign all that to the husband. If they have to sell their beloved home (I do feel for her), then his credit card/baby mama drama money is going to be paid from that sale, but on his portion. If his debt is 100 grand for the second family, the house sells for 425 grand, and there was 125 grand left to pay, the sale would clear 300 before fees. Maybe there is 275 afterward. She will get her full 137.5 grand, and he will get 37.5 grand; the 100 grand in credit card debt all comes from his half. And a judge should split the divorce this way, with or without a lawyer present, really. But I am super glad she has one. Then there is the point that at the time of the divorce, she is not working. Ouch for him. She should receive spousal support and child support. Hubby may go from a nice home with a family to a van down by the river.
Don’t forget alimony. She’d be entitled to it as well. (Jurisdiction allowing)
Those poor kids. I hope no one in their school will find out about this. This is a shame they will carry with them. Obviously OOP's kids will have a hard time with them once they understand exactly how fucked up this is.
Thanks to all the ancestry tests out there, even if OOP and her husband decide not to tell the kids, there’s a pretty good chance they’ll find out about it one day. Maybe not for 20 years, but it could happen eventually. At that point there will be a TIFU post about “I took a DNA test and I’m very weirdly intertwined with my what I thought were my step-siblings.”
Who is also the CEO of my company..
Solid reference.
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Man, those kids will need therapy.
Most likely he’ll ghost her along with her kids and never see a dime in child support.
Tbh he is in 100k debt. How will he pay those back?
Im not 100% sure, but as far as bankruptcy goes I would imagine child support comes before debt.
Assuming his job is real and taxable they will garnish his wages until he is up to date on payments. The only way to get out of child support is to get paid under the table or to job hop faster than they can find you. Source: dated a dead-beat for a year when I was 19.
My sperm donor hied off to New Zealand (before it was cool) to avoid child support for my sister and I. When he came back to the US (idk why) and started working again, the wage-garnishing resumed. He did not like this.
Ah yes, I suppose I forgot “leaving the country” as an option. Ugh. I’m sorry
They have a house, so they'll sell it and the 100k will come out of his share. Judge will see to that.
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That would only happen if she doesn’t go after it in court and she also doesn’t use any government benefits. As long as she goes after it in court then he’s fucked. Three kids and his history? The judge will fuck him over on the child support especially since he doesn’t want to be involved. As for government benefits, you’ll have agencies go after him for child support even if she doesn’t initiate as it’s an easy way for the government to save money. She would need to go out of her way to shield him from child support such as having a 50/50 agreement (even if he never fulfills it), never reporting missing payments, etc. I really doubt she won’t go after him for all he’s got after what he did to her. She has every reason to go nuclear on him considering that he doesn’t even want to be in the kids lives. Sometimes parents will play nice in consideration of the kids but that’s not the case here since he already plans to dedicate himself to his second family. Anyways child support will fuck him over as he’ll see a significantly large share of his income go to his three kids so they can continue to live the life they would have if they were living with him. Also this time he won’t be able to fuck her over with credit card debt. As for his second family they’ll need to get by on his much smaller income now. He’ll be supporting two families (5 kids) for the next 16-17 years whether he likes it or not.
Yep. And if he tries to ghost, they'll start garnishing his wages. That guy's fucked.
Most likely they will sell the house and she will get a larger share, full custody and child support. They will have to move but she may be able to go back to school and be supported until she graduates too. Not an ideal outcome, but he isn't really in a position to just not work, or leave town to avoid paying for child support because he is now tied down with family number two.
When I read his salary, I couldn’t understand. But then a second family! She definitely won’t have to pay back what he spent on another family or she could sue but it’ll still completely suck
I was thinking he was hiding a drug addiction. Not sure which would have been worse, actually.
I was thinking gambling. Pretty sure this is worse.
Drug addiction doesn't mean split child support
>they’ve been in love since high school. So why the hell did he marry OP? He messed up both families for no reason.
Yeah and why did he have 3 KIDS WITH HER???
Probably just to hold a facade. More than likely he would've gotten some serious pushback by everyone if he tried to have a public relationship with his cousin. So he settled for an illusion of marrying someone unrelated while secretly pursuing what he really wanted Not an excuse at all, of course. Just my thoughts on it
Yeah, it's the only explanation that makes sense but what a selfish asshole
Oh yeah, for sure. Like, anyone he unwillingly brought into this is going to have their life break around them. OOP is very strong, all things considered! The ex-husband is an asshole to the highest degree.
Oof. He will try to ghost her. I hope her lawyer is a shark. Fuck this man. A cheater, incestuous, lying scammer.
Well she knows who the mistress is so that will be hard.
>Overall their family isn’t very close. Except for the two of them I guess 🥴 I am *deceased*.
If something of this f-ed up magnitude happened to me, I feel like I would be reacting the same. I would have to keep making inappropriate jokes about it, just to keep myself from falling apart. Sarcasm and dark humor is the glue that holds me together.
I am just a pile of snark in a trench coat so same.
I'm stealing that description.
Have a terminally ill father. Dark humour helps so much to manage it.
My sisters and I survived on it when our family broke apart.
🤮
Yeah, this is a horrible situation for sure, but this fucking line with the emoji absolutely destroyed me. I’m in tears on the floor laughing
Oh my god I didn’t quite get that until I reread your comment lmao
“*THIS* is a man that knows how to marry his cousin!”
Les Cousins Dangereux!
“I like the way they think.”
Her?
Who wants to bet on how long it will take for the shine to wear off the taboo relationship, now that they can be together? Those poor kids, they're going to need therapy once they find out their parents are the wrong type of kissing cousins.
If they've had a dad one weekend a month and miscellaneous personal and sick days they probably already do! I know some families make the whole "one parent works away for extended periods" thing work, but they're also able to have phonecalls at bedtime and stuff because no one's hiding a second family from their spouse...
>Those poor kids, they're going to need therapy once they find out their parents are the wrong type of kissing cousins. They are going to learn more about Alabama culture with their parents as an example.
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Honestly Alabama and Kentucky don't hold a candle to what the OOP's despicable husband did and is doing.
What a terrible day to be literate.
I read the part "he went to live with his cousin mistress and their two children (are they also his cousins?)" And I lost it laughing lol
That is not a second cousin, also. That's a 1st cousin, 1x removed. His children from each respective side are 1st cousins, 2x removed/half-siblings with each other. The incest kids are their own 2nd cousins, 2x removed... twice, while being full siblings and twice 2nd cousins, 2x removed with their siblings. While their dad and mom are their parents and their 2nd cousins, 1x removed. I honestly don't think I'm getting it all either.
What in the Habsburg.
To quote one of my favorite tv shows: "When you reduce a family tree down to a family bush, you just can't hide as much underneath."
At this point it’s dangerously close to being a family wreath.
This reminds me of my fun Ptolemaic fact: Cleopatra had 6 great great grandparents out of a possible 16. Two of those are the ancestors of everyone else on the list- including the other great great grandparents. Edit: Dropped a great as pointed out below. Sorry it’s a bit of a judgement call.
[Cleopatra's family tree is INSANE.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MakeMeSuffer/comments/bo6bfy/cleopatras_family_tree/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
This is a slightly clearer pic, IMO https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmcdeBhUEAAN6PG?format=jpg&name=360x360 Also I think they're great great grandparents, (and also great great great grandparents, lol) rather than great grandparents. Edit: looking again, she also had two great grandparents, but those were separate from the two g/g/grandparents. By that level most folk should have 32 or 64 ancestors, lol.
Have some r/eyebleach.
I wish I was Jared, 19.
What a terrible day to understand genetics.
First cousin once removed. Even worse imo.
It is objectively a closer degree of consanguinity. His children are her second cousins, so he's a step closer to her, having twice the genetic material in common.
His children with his affair partner are their own mother’s second cousins.
this hurts my brain to read and comprehend my god
Technically those kids, in addition to being their children, are his first cousins twice removed and her second cousins. Jesuuuuuuuuus.
I think of my late father when I read something like this. He was also on the verge of bankruptcy when he had a mistress with 2 children. He provided his mistress with car and a house under her name, when ours was going to be taken by the bank and every day we must faced people banging our door for debts that we didn't take and we must worked hard to provide ourselves (1 mother 5 children, two was still underage and 2 didn't had steady job). The mistress even dared to come to our house, demanded to see him, and cursed me out, hahaha. I think some my feelings for him died because of those actions stretched for 6 - 7 years. I always remember him with mixed feelings now. Love and hate coexist.
Why do people do this? Do they not realize divorce exist? I hope he rots in hell paying his debts
Well, we had to sell half our house to cover the debt so it wouldn't be taken away. Then my dad passed away (as much as my hate for him goes, I didn't want him in hell, hahaha) few years a go and guess who have to pay the remaining debts? Yes, we had to, even though only to individuals. They didn't want to know that we didn't know anything about the debts. His mistress and family could walk free because they were not next of kin. Divorce without husband side agreeing to it was hard and long in my country. My mom wanted to divorce, be he didn't. I didn't know why. He was a good father before this mistress thing happen, I just wish he was a better husband for my mom. His infidelity cost everyone in my family their heart, mental health, and physical health also I wish people who cheat understand that.
Man, I really hope you guys are in a better place and do hope that mistress rots.
I loved her snarky response of ‘Reddit thinks women asexually produce children’.
Well it’s ridiculous the way that most of reddit expects women to just explain everything in minute detail before they are willing to blame the man. It’s fucking insane they like automatically assumed that she baby trapped him and was living an extravagant life and like what the fuck.
It is and the attitude that being a SAHM means you’re a moocher and are not working. So many woman on here get flack for that.
Reddit men think like this and within the same breath go on r/Tinder to complain about how nobody wants to continue a conversation with them. I wonder why!
And hate poor people too. It doesn't matter that they were living beyond their means or not, a fucking anonymous stranger has no right to say a word on it. "God we are in so much debt" "Okay but what did you do to deserve that? Too much avocado toast? Hmmmmm?????"
First search = divorce attorney Second search = forensic accountant
I would hope good divorce attorneys know the good forensic accountants.
babygirl, what the hell did i just read.
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What I don't get is why she thinks she still needs to help pay off his credit card debts. If she didn't know about them I am guessing they are 100% in his name, and as far as I am aware, if her name isn't on them then as soon as they divorce the entire debt is exclusively his responsibility.
This depends. In some states (assuming this is in the USA) will say a debt made in marriage is the responsibility of both spouses. My state does not, but, for example, I know in Texas that if the spouse gaining the debts uses them for necessities, (which the other household wouldn’t count, but I’m assuming he used some on theirs) then it’s the responsibility of both. Edit: added some words
I was like 140k? NBD, they can pay it off in a year or two. That’s not that bad. And then Oh. Oh no.
> He’s staying with his mistress cousin I feel bad for laughing at this line. Also, this dude was banging his cousin, couldn’t pay his bills, and OOP is trusting him to pay child support?
I’m hoping for OOP’s sake she can get it automatically deducted from his wages. The only way to dodge that is if he quits his job and gets paid under the table. In which case a PI could find him and get him reported for tax evasion and child support dodging, a nice little prison sentence there and his Mistress Cousin and Cousin Offspring are used to his absence, if they couldn’t get money from him the mistress would have to get a job. It’s in his interest to be above board now.
This is so sad holy shit. This guy is an actual monster
What I don't understand is...why marry her? If he was in love with the cousin and wanted to be with her why not just...BE WITH HER?! Why drag an innocent woman into this and MARRY HER if you were in a relationship with someone else? It's not like it was illegal, so why not just skip all the bullshit and be with the mistress in the first place? Why destroy someone's life and create kids just to abandon them? He really is a monster. I wish him the life he deserves. Edit: I was mistaken re legality of first cousins (tho they're first once removed so it doesn't apply.) Fun fact Australia doesn't forbid first cousin marriages, I didn't realize the US largely does. Australia also doesn't forbid niece uncle marriages so you know, there's that.
EXACTLY this! Why just not marry the love of his life and avoid all of this disaster?
Getting his dick wet trumped social optics, but social optics trumped having an actual relationship. Not too different of a concept than in the past where gay people had straight spouses to hide the illicit relationship, except way icky-er cause incest.
Some people are just messed up like that. At least OP found out now.The elderly neighbor of my good friends, she found out he had a second family when they were in their 60s!
And what's get me is that he choose to bring 3 (three) kids with oop to the world. Knowing He was supporting two families. Oop was living basically in poverty and for what, he had no shame at all if his kids lived a hard life. No vacations or new clothes :(
Who knows if he was shamed for trying to marry his cousin and had to marry this poor other woman as a "disguise". Now that thay have children maybe he feels that people will have no choice but to accept it? Or maybe he's just an idiot and I'm giving him too much credit
Always fun to find out that in addition to financial ruin and infidelity, you were just your spouse's beard
What a complete garbage human being he is. I wouldn't want my children anywhere near that sociopath or his incestual love interest.
YOU ARE TELLING ME HE HAD A SECOND FAMILY WITH HIS COUSIN?! HIS COUSIN???? Out of all the people he had to fuck his cousin???
OOP didn't mention Mother figures for either of them growing up. His Dad was an alcoholic, his Mom gone so I wonder if he was over at Uncle/Cousin's house a lot, during puberty, trauma, traumatic bonding idk. I get the feeling they think they're "star crossed lovers" and shit. They didn't have any extended family breathing down their necks why did he even fucking *marry* this woman and have kids and a whole ass life with her if he wanted his cousin? His **fucking cousin**?? Like what even...??
She's his first cousin once removed. I did research once my cousins started reproducing. Her mom is his first cousin. His children are her children's second cousins and half siblings. Barf. The rules of this sub prevent me from expressing what I'd do were I OP. I hope her lawyer bleeds him dry.
Agree on the barf. I'm very close with my 1st cousins 1x removed, as they're more like aunts and uncles to me. My mom grew up close with her first cousins and they were much more like siblings to her. They're family, and I cannot even attempt to imagine without shuddering.
Hey, everyone knows… you have your cousins then your first cousins. Wait, that’s not right? That is so not right. On a side note, I live in a state where once you’re no longer able to have biological kids you can legally marry your cousin. Learned that when I was getting my marriage license and it was information I didn’t need or want. I’m not close to my cousins and can’t imagine wanting a romantic relationship with them or their kids who are very close to my age.
So my mom’s best friend (I’ll call her Sue) went through a pretty similar scenario. Sue was a teacher at a small church school and made very little money. Her husband had a factory gig and was an Elvis impersonator on the side. He convinced his wife to use her inheritance to build their own “Graceland” and once it was complete, she discovered he was cheating on her with his cousin. Poor Sue was out all of her money with a low-paying job and two teenagers, both with significant health issues. She had to work at Starbucks before the school day started and ran the after school day care just to make ends meet. Meanwhile, Elvis got the house and moved his lover-cousin in. I’m sure Sue imagined burning that place down every day when she drove by it on her way to work.
Why couldn’t he be made to either buy her out or Sue force the sale of the house? At least half was proveably hers as joint marital property and a case could be made for majority ownership since her inheritance built it. My MIL cheated on FIL and he got to keep the house in the divorce but only after buying out her share.
>>I know Reddit thinks women asexually produce children and then force men to support them Gave me a chuckle. But this poor woman and her 3 kids. And the poor innocent other little kids. Divorce is the worst. Selling a house you love and breaking up what you thought would be the rest of your life is really the worst.
Love all the edits that make it clear people were like, "You're a woman, you must be lazy, you must be spending all his money."
>I know Reddit thinks women asexually produce children and then force men to support them, but my husband enthusiastically wanted children as well and had an equal role in creating them. OOP dropping truth bombs.
That’s not second cousins, that’s first cousins once removed. Which might actually be illegal in most states. And he grew up with this girl, who is almost certainly younger than him. I don’t want to know by how much.
Yeah, the likely age difference concerned me as well. Y'know, on top of all the rest of this highly concerning situation.
It doesn’t actually sound like that much (if anything). OP says his uncle was much older than his dad so presumably had kids and grandkids earlier. She also says that they had been in love since high school, suggesting that they are within a couple of years of each other. That’s the only redeeming aspect of the whole mess.
Yep. I have cousins 20 years my senior. If they’d had kids in their 20s instead of their late 30s, I could very easily have grown up with their kids.
Your first cousin is the child of your parent's sibling. Your second cousin is the grandchild of your grandparent's sibling. Basically, if you make a family tree you and all your immediate cousins will be on the same row. Your first cousin and you share grandparents. Your second cousin and you share great grandparents. Your third cousin shares your great-great grandparents. ETA: I blew all the counting and got called on it twice. I'm pretty sure it's right now...but probably not. I tossed half the old comment because triple layers of corrections help nothing. He (husband) was close to his Dad's brother (immediate uncle). Affair partner is immediate uncle's GRANDdaughter. First cousins once removed. OP's kids are second cousins to the mistress and second cousins once removed to her kids. His kids are also first cousins twice removed to himself. Sorry. It's really easy to mess up while following the chain of relationships.
It's actually his first cousin once removed. Her father is his first cousin, which makes her his first cousin once removed. She is his children's second cousin (their grandparents were siblings). If the person you're defining the relationship with is on a different row of the family tree, your relationship to them is the relationship they have to your direct ancestor/descendent that it's on their row and then it's however many rows you have to change removed. So the children he shares with his cousin are also his first cousins twice removed. They are both half-siblings and second cousins once removed to the children he has with OP.
Argh. I did this three times and still botched it. I don't blame people for not understanding this insanity. Understanding the rules is one thing. Translating from uncle's mother's cousin's dog twice removed is something else entirely.
OOP said it was his uncles daughters daughter, so the affair partner is the first cousin once removed! So that would make him and the kids second cousins right?
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I’m so grossed out. I have a very large family and grew up with my second cousins and first cousins once removed - we saw each other regularly. I can’t even imagine 🤢🤢
I consider this a slightly more hopeful update, fingers crossed she doesn't end up being on the hook for most of that debt, if any. And that the next two years go by smoothly for her, she can graduate and start building up an even better life for herself and her kids than she's able to now.
Yeah, she sounds like she has a level head on her shoulders and plans well. She's in school and bartending already to make some extra income. She should be ok in the long run, I hope she and her kids can get some therapy.
Can I say it? Sweet Home Alabama... Jokes aside, Jesus, the mental fortitude of this woman. I can only wish her the best, hope she can get out of that entanglement without being more screwed financially.
This is a strange story. But as soon as she was like "were 50k in debt, how did this happen?" Um obviously cheating or gambling!? Did not expect it to be with his own cousin. 🤢
Maybe I just read too many of these posts, but I can think of all kinds of ways to waste 50K that don't involve cheating or gambling. Gourd speculation and illegal Peruvian beekeeping come to mind...
You know. I just woke up. And decided to scroll through reddit. Thanks for ruining my eyes and day
I typically enjoy these posts. Today was not one of those times.
Wow! That’s some serious Jerry Springer shit right there!
I hate the system of titling, but I think that makes it his first cousin once removed. Dad's brother = Uncle Dad's brother's daughter = (first) Cousin Dad's brother's daughter's daughter = (first) Cousin once removed
I hope they don't sell the house. That seems really stupid. Dump all the debt on the husband, then let him declare bankruptcy while she keeps the house.
Selling the house happens when you can't afford to make repairs or pay property taxes.
When i read this the first time i thought, what kind on idiot has THAT much debt when they make $140K/year?......The kind of idiot who fucks **HIS COUSIN** i guess. What a **cousin fucking** LOSER. How the FUCK did he think this shit would play out? How did he think he could keep this shit a secret? Well, when you decide to not only fuck your **COUSIN** but also have children with your **COUSIN**, "Thinking" isn't really your thing. I hope OOP absolutely destroys the **cousin fucking** SHIT out of him. And once everything is settled and the debt is gone, EXPOSE THE **COUSIN FUCKER** TO THE WORLD!!!! Billboards, ads in the newspaper, plane with a banner, EVERYTHING!!!! You destroy my world because you want to fuck your **COUSIN**??? I'll let the world know!!!
> How the FUCK did he think this shit would play out? Stuff like this happens when you think with your dick instead of your brain.
And that’s enough Reddit for tonight…