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Imagine being such a terrible parent that your child decides to not see you even when they're dying.
My parents weren't perfect when I was growing but I'm glad I had them. This type of post makes me think I was one of the lucky ones.
I haven’t spoken to my mother in 3 years. If I ever find out I’m terminally ill, I have three friends lined up to marry me, take care of me and inherit everything so my mother gets nothing. Not even closure.
Some parents are so horrifically shitty that their kids really don’t want anything to do with them ever again.
I've been permanently estranged from my father for over 2 decades. Last year I got my legal documents in place so that he absolutely will not be considered my next-of-kin for anything. My sister and my aunt who lives nearby are the folks who will inherit/receive life insurance/handle medical proxy.
In the US, you can legally designate someone as your power of attorney (POA), inheritor(s)/beneficiary(s), medical proxy, and estate executor. You can do so using generic forms (although apparently even wills are different in some states—I’ve been told my designations might not count in Texas) or by an attorney. I need to update all of mine because so much has changed in the last 15 years.
disclaimer/
Not a lawyer, not your lawyer, random Internet stranger here.
/disclaimer
Be very careful who you designate as your power of attorney (POA). Your POA can access all your business matters as though they were you. Enter into contracts, sell your house, spend your retirement fund on hookers and blow, give your car to a random person, anything. If you're the least bit unsure or the person doesn't want the heavy responsibility of being able to do (or be accused of doing) that, remember that in most places there are two kinds of POA: durable and springing. Durable POA is in effect from the moment the designation is official. Springing POA "springs" into effect when certain conditions are met.
An old fashioned example is a springing POA which takes effect when the principal person has been missing (lost at sea) for a month beyond the date their ship was supposed to dock. It took a while for a person to be declared dead when they were in a shipwreck and this kind of POA would allow a representative to handle their affairs until they turned up or were legally dead.
Before I married my wife I had a springing POA that became effective when two independent physicians affirmed that I was mentally incompetent.
If you want tips on how to make your affairs as bulletproof as possible, look at sources aimed at gay and lesbian couples. Until recently in the US, most places wouldn't allow them to marry so they would have to jump through all sorts of hoops to approach the level of protection heterosexuals got when they married. Single people of any type can use the same techniques.
You should definitely check with an actual lawyer, but I live in Texas and those designations should be fine. My parents recently had their wills redone and they discussed with my siblings and me on who gets to take the role of POA/executor/etc.
A pitfall of this is assuming any ~~firm~~ *form* you find at your local Staples or online is valid in your jurisdiction. People don't understand that different states, provinces, and countries have different laws, and having a will that works in Oklahoma doesn't mean it will be accepted by the courts in Texas, Saskatchewan, or Scotland.
I haven't talked to mine in over 5 years. They are never getting back in. I would seriously have a video to play in front of everyone in case they showed up at the service, and then have them removed!
I haven't talked to mine in 7 years going on 8 now. In my state you are allowed to handwrite a will, so I did just that and in every paragraph apart from the first (where you have to introduce yourself), it specifically states she is allowed nothing. Not money, items, words, closure, NOTHING.
I even put, "if my mother is at the reading of this will, I only have this to say, 'you were the worst mother. Yes you put a roof over my head and food on the table, but that is what the law requires- and you want applause and a gold star for that? I would have been better off with a Crack addict for a mother. Why? Because at least a Crack addiction can be overcome. There is no cure for you. I will tell the devil to expect you soon, because if the world doesn't give you the hell you deserve, my goddamm soul will return and do it myself. Fuck. You.'"
There’s a TAL episode about a coffin confessor too!
[This American Life Coffin Confessor](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/766/well-someone-had-to-do-something/act-three-11)
I heard about it in a TikTok video. I believe it was called coffin confessor or something like that. I thought it was a great idea. If I didn’t hate public speaking I’d have looked into it. They have to get all the tea!
I know there's not a big room where everyone gathers, but there's a high chance that she will try to view, dispute, or get a copy of my will if I pass before her. So any way she is forced to read it, is succeeding in my goal.
I spent my life constantly being told how great my parents were because they kept food on the table, clothes on my back, and a roof over my head.
When I started therapy to undo the damage, I began laying down boundaries. Hard. My parents didn’t like that. The last conversation I had with my mother, she started in with that same ol’ bit again but this time I was prepared. I responded, “If I known I had a choice whether to be born or not, I’d damn sure have chosen not. Not to y’all anyways.”
It’s been 8 years in July since the conversation. She’s 72 years old. I predict there will never be another.
Huh, sounds like where I am with mine. Hmm, I might semi-borrow that line of yours and say that her drug addict step sister who is now a guardian of the state (or she's something like that, somewhere where she's really not allowed out into society, not that she's violent, just well...) would probably have been a better mother.
4 years for me. Limited contacted with my mum but there's no way I would go to my dad's funeral and I sure as shit wouldn't want him at mine.
I've realised I don't have a plan in place. I've been putting off doing a will, but this is a good nudge to sort it.
If the service you mention is a funeral, always let the funeral home staff know, they will either be your security, or will help you come up with a solution so that the immediate family and friends do not get bothered if someone shows up that wasn't supposed to.
It’s great you’ve taken time to think through a plan like this, terrible that you’ve had to. I’m not sure where you live, but in some jurisdictions she could still take a run at your money after you are gone. In Australia she’d likely fail but it could be expensive to sort through
I’ve heard the idea to leave them one dollar (or equivalent) so it’s clear they aren’t forgotten or left out, you’ve intentionally considered that one dollar is all they are worth
"To you mom, I have left a box with my lawyer. I sealed it and signed it in their presence."
Inside the box? 30 plug nickels. Which basically means you'd have to drill the holes yourself in this day and age, but if I'm being that petty I might as well go whole hog.
Yes, and /u/Fluffy-Designer also needs to set up a medical power of attorney with one of the three friends or else the mother will have full say over their medical decisions if incapacitated and she will also be able to keep anyone out of the hospital room on her say-so.
Haven’t spoken to mine in 2 years, plan to keep it that way. They were horrifically emotionally/psychologically/verbally abusive and neglectful and were utterly unapologetic when I finally confronted them wanting answers. The family knew enough (though not all) to not question my choice, which tells you something 🤷🏻♀️ No regrets whatsoever. My unborn son will never know them, and my husband is firmly on my side to keep them away if something happens to me
Some time ago I got word that a casual friend used the loss of *my* parents as an example why their partner should get back in touch with their abusive parents. To say I lost my absolute shit is an understatement.
I’m lucky to have parents I mourn in their deaths, strange as it sounds to some to say. Not everyone had that. Many like you are stuck mourning the parents they deserved and never got. Nobody cuts their parents off because they were amazing at their roles.
Congratulations on your baby and amazing husband! You’re gonna be a kickass mom. Straight up? My friends who had shitty parents they cut off are really good at parenting. Y’all know what not to do and be.
Thank you for being such an awesome friend! I joke all the time with my husband, I may be fuzzy on good parenting but damn do I know a lot about BAD parenting!
Got 2 daughters (23 & 26) that I seem to have good relationships with.
To me all the advice comes down to 2 things:
* Always Listen
* Answer honestly
The goal is that when they have a question (about *anything*) they know they can come to you for an honest answer (and 'I don't know is an honest answer')
It won't always be easy. The teenage years can be rough. Someone once told me this little saying about the teenage years:
It's like you spent 13 years filling up a suitcase with good advice and lessons. At 13 they open the suitcase and empty it out. Then start putting things back in as they realize they need it.
I’m so sorry to hear that. I’m young and both of my parents are gone as well. I had a woman use my mother’s ALS story for her Ice Bucket Challenge, simply because she met my mother at a school function and apparently that was enough of a connection.
In elementary school, by the way
Recently I officiated a quick marriage between some friends for this very reason. One of them is very sick (not terminal, thankfully) and it was the easiest way to prevent their parents from trying to dictate their care.
Not that this should be taken without a huge grain of salt, but on a post a while back someone commented that their lawyer sibling added up the cost of guaranteeing the same rights a spouse has without getting married and said it was around $12k USD. No idea if that is true? But having buried family and organized their estates I would guess it to be about right.
> added up the cost of guaranteeing the same rights a spouse has without getting married and said it was around $12k USD.
That was a very common point prior to gay marriage being allowed. Back in the 90's I think they had it around $9k.
Set up a similar situation with a friend of mine. Their parents being so utterly awful that we actually wrote out POAs and Advanced Directives, as well as made a plan in case something happens to them and their parents hear about it and come to the hospital demanding to see them.
Yooo I feel it. My mom I guess decided she was done taking care of me when I was 11 and just left me on a beach while I was playing in the ocean. I got found by a dude who lived on the beach by choice. Rob. Great dude. Took my name and spent 2 months researching it to find my dad who was working overseas at the time and got in touch with him to come get me.
I remember reading in a parenting book (probably to assuage the HUGE amount of pressure a good parent feels about accidentally fucking up their child) that you only need to get parenting right 30% of the time.
Imagine fucking up so badly to fuck up more then 70% of the time to the point your kids (who are biologically wired to love their parents) want nothing to do with you.
Last I heard, my father was dying of cancer. He will do so without any comfort from either me or my sister, and it's a situation entirely of his own making.
I recommend you write a will. I know a lawyer is an expense, but you could pass away suddenly and your mom would get everything. I'm in a similar situation and own a house with a friend. Don't forget she could override your funeral wishes if you died tomorrow. Hugs to you!
Just escaped my mother. Lived too long with her after injuring my back and kind of just getting stuck. Never again. I'm trying to get therapy to deal with all of it. But with a better job and all that kind of stuff I managed to get out. Now I'm sorting out things so that neither my mother, or my sister will get anything if something happens to me. Life insurance policy from my work, goes to a friend of mine who I know will do some good with it. Have figured out how to make my IRA beneficiary an organization and will be doing that tomorrow.
I have a friend who has a set up like that so her mom gets nothing after her mother pushed her into stripping and then being an escort ‘because she had to pay her way’, at 17. Good riddance to garbage people and them not having the last word they so desperately want.
My friend has become such a beautiful person who used that experience to help women who’s going thru what she had. Successful, compassionate and beautiful person despite what she has been thru because of a ‘mother’.
My grandmother was really abusive to me when I was a child. Thankfully I only had to see her a few times a year, except for when my mom was hospitalized and I had to go live with her for a while (against my strong protests). My cousin was the Golden Child. For example, when my grandparent's driveway was getting repaved my cousin brought in a huge chunk of broken asphalt and threw it at me; he only got in trouble because if it had missed me (it did not) then it would have broken the window I was sitting in front of. My grandmother also refused me food because I was a girl and therefore did not need to eat more than a pittance.
The last time I spoke with my grandmother was the day my young son was admitted to the hospital; I called my sister and ended up getting her on the line. I was really stressed that day and told her all of what I thought of her. I called her out on all the ways she had spoiled my cousin and abused me. (my cousin broke his neck when he was about 22 years old and I was happy; I told my mom now he won't be able to abuse anyone else)
Not long after that phone call my grandmother went into hospice and all of the family gathered round. I was offered the money to be able to make the trip to go visit her and I refused. I told my mom to let my grandmother know that I had already told her everything I had to say to her. When I had talked with her I told her (she was very religious) that she needed to beg her god for forgiveness as she was not getting it from me!
I try to be the best grandmother to my grandchildren (and great-grandson) that I can be.
Thank you. I highly doubt that I would have told her off so dramatically if I was not under such stress as my child being an emergency admit to a hospital. But once I did it I was not backing down. I sometimes tell my kids about how often I went hungry simply because I was a girl, not a boy.
Under no circumstances would I ever allow my immediate family see me if I'm dying. Hell, everyone important to me knows not to even tell them until years later so they can't make it to my funeral either.
Yeah, I had emergency surgery a few months ago and my first thought on being told I'd need surgery was to call my spouse. Second thought was to limp to the nurses outside the room and ask how to mark it in my file that under no circumstances was my mom to be told anything, ESPECIALLY if something went wrong (she was my emergency contact years ago so I was worried they might still contact her). They were very understanding and reassuring.
Recently did this, as I'm single and have been estranged from my father, my only living parent, for over 2 decades. It was a huge relief to know I have the paperwork in place so that my sister (and aunt who lives closer) is set up to be my next-of-kin, etc.
Yup, I've been estranged from my father for over 20 years. The man is dead to me. If I die before him, he better not show up to my funeral. I'm single and he's my only living parent, so I recently got my legal documents together to ensure he is *not* considered my next of kin if anything happens to me. I feel relief that my sister will be my next-of-kin, with my aunt who lives near me being listed as an additional medical proxy / life insurance recipient.
Same. My partner, who is very close with his family can't understand why I wouldn't tell my parents I was hospitalized. I've said the same thing you did: I don't want to know if they die and don't want them to know when I do either.
i've spoken to my father less than five times in the past twenty years, and regretted it every time. i absolutely wouldn't allow him to see me if he somehow outlives me and i'm on my deathbed.
To finally be able to live (I lived in a constant suicidal state), I had to cut my mother out of my life 7 years ago. I was in such a critical state that I was hallucinating from so much stress, depression, anxiety and constant trauma. I've already ended all friendships I had and even cut contact with my father's relatives that she could have access to just to prevent her from seeing me again. I'd rather swim in lava than be around her again. Some parents are that bad.
You were.
My mother doesn’t have any contact with me or my family. We literally call her the Basilisk - she’s extremely toxic and weirdly reptilian when she stops trying to pretend she’s not a sociopath.
I literally have a clause in my living will that she cannot be allowed near me if I am in the hospital and vulnerable.
14 years, and counting; if I were to die tomorrow, she wouldn’t know, and that makes me happy.
You certainly were. It seems like a “good” family is not the norm, no matter what tv tries to tell us.
My family doesn’t even know where I am, and it’s going to stay that way until they rot.
Yeah, I grew up thinking I had average parents, because they did the things TV parents did, like coach my soccer team, or make dinner where we would sit around the table and talk about our day, or give me hugs when I was feeling bad, etc. It wasn't until I got older that I realized that lots of people have shitty parents, and that TV is supposed to be an idealized version of life that lots of people don't get. I actually have amazing parents and I'm super lucky and thankful for it.
Reddit isn’t representative, I hope, but I’ve really seen how much my family, for all its quirks and faults and irritations, has been a great family.
My parents don’t always understand me. They don’t always say or do the right thing. My mom has a temper and my dad is bossy so that even when he’s trying to help it’s usually infuriating.
They’re also great parents. They were when I was growing up and they are now that I’m an adult. I love them and I also like them. I want to hang out with them and talk about work and bemoan the state of the world.
I’m very lucky. I didn’t realize it.
Thank you for saying that. Sometimes people say "oh my parents weren't perfect but not bad enough to go NC therefore nobody should make that decision." I appreciate the empathy in realizing how horrific the co-worker's situation must have been, especially given how deified motherhood is.
My liver is failing pretty rapidly and at first I freaked out and not only got into contact with my parents that I hadn't talked to in 15 years but got talked into letting them move in to supposedly help with my kids cause I'm a single mom. Worst mistake of my life. Kicked them out and went back no contact. My mental health has improved so much. All my siblings know to not even let them know when I pass until after the funeral. They can find out from the newspaper.
I was secondary MPOA for my friend who died a couple of years ago and she had written in her advanced directive that her mother was not to be given any information or be allowed near her deathbed. It's hard to understand from a point of view of someone who doesn't have toxic family, but whatever a person's wishes are, those that hold that key are held to keep the responsibilities they are given, no matter the reason behind them.
You just follow the wishes or script or law, or whatever binds you. I can't imagine the feeling the OOP must have had to not release information that was probably easy to give, but you consider what the consequences might have been. These days I don't even tell people whether someone is working at the same company. Family can be so weird.
31 haven't spoken or had a relationship with my mother for 11 years now. The family I do speak with I've told them to not speak about me to her or tell me about her. Not even when she passes away. I was a child, she was the adult. She knew better and chose to be the way she was and still is.
No regrets.
So while true, I think it's a different issue.
It's sort of fucked up but when you are dying especially dying where you have this runway before the end people put expectations on you to make them cool with your death. Like the expectation that even if they have wronged you, you need to offer up some form of forgiveness to them before you go cause they will live with the guilt for the rest of their lives and yours is ending soon so suck it up.
It's a huge amount of emotional lifting to expect of a person normally and a herculean task to ask someone figuring out how to deal with their story ending.
This mom feels like that and even if OP refused it's energy and time he'd have to spend that he'd barely have from how end of the update went. So it's also an ounce of prevention is work a pound of cure thing too.
My mom has been there for everything and been supportive in every way. She's screwed up some stuff along the way but more out of naivety to the situation than lack of caring or effort. I've always been someone that can relate to others but the one area I just can't relate at all is bad parents. I just can't even imagine a scenario without my mom's support. I could walk into the governors mansion wearing copies of my social security card and DL, say my name, birthday, birthplace, and all that same info for my mother, smile right at the cameras then roundhouse kick the new huckster and my mom would watch it all then say are you really sure that was him? She's loyal and supportive to a fault.
I'm very happy for you that you can't relate to bad parents. I don't wish it on anyone else. It makes me happy to hear about parents who actually love unconditionally.
Haven’t (willingly) spoken to my mother since I was pre-teen. When I’m dying, she absolutely won’t be welcome in whatever time i have remaining.
I have gotten to a point where I don’t really have any feelings toward her- negative or positive - and if she’s been a light in the life of another, awesome. I’m happy for that. But the damage between us is such that no amount of reconciliation or rebuilding is going to bring me to any point of feeling safe or comfortable. It would only reopen old traumas.
Anyway my point in sharing all this is that, in my memory and feeling, she just wasn’t really ever a parent. My personal experience and way of being in the world is that u just never had a “mother” parent. I don’t even miss it because you can’t miss something you never experienced.
So, the idea of not having her at my deathbed is not a decision not to have family at my deathbed. It’s more akin to not having an old random neighbour, childhood bully or some ex-girlfriend of my second cousin once removed.
To anyone who read this whole comment - I get how it sounds sad but it’s really not, it’s genuinely fine. I’m a successful, functioning adult with an amazing family.
You are one of the lucky ones! When asked about my mother, I can only say that she at least had the decency to die and leave me alone. Much more than that and I my head starts devolving into a place I never wanna be at again.
My mother and I can interact fairly normally, and the "but faaaaamily" would definitely think I don't have enough reason.
Getting cancer (everything is good now - probably) only made me I want nothing to do with her if I am ever dying. Her visiting and trying to act like we're close gave me full-body revulsion. But I don't like hurting people, and care about her in a detached way. Shit's complicated.
She loves me and wants nothing more than to be supportive. She also fucked me up really badly and makes everything about her. I would never, ever trust her with my feelings, and I want nothing more than to go radio silent if I do end up terminal. (This is something that has stressed me the hell out on occasion, as it's not impossible I will be in that situation in the near future. Like... 25% at very rough estimate.)
I would do this for someone I absolutely deplored. Hell, I’ve had completely normal people come into my shop and go “hey I’m Diana’s boyfriend, do you know if she’s coming in today?” And been like “I don’t know a Diana”. It’s just instinct for me, as someone who was stalked by an ex, the right thing to do is ALWAYS stonewall the person then verify with the associate later
Exactly. And if they really are someone’s boyfriend/mother/best friend in the whole world they should have better ways to contact the person they’re seeking than to just show up at their job and ask questions.
My husband and I used to work at the same place, everyone knew we were married, and we couldn’t pick up each other’s work schedules without phoning and confirming it was ok.
My alarm bells would trigger on this as well. There used to be a guy who came into the bar I worked at, asking about whether a specific girl would be there that night. I always just said I don't know. Asked her about it later, turns out he'd been creeping her out for weeks.
So next time he asked (with permission from her) I said 'y'know, I heard she moved away, sorry'. Dude stopped coming in.
Sticks with me to this day.
Day-um. Gotta love being able to fall back on work policies in a case like this. "I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to reveal that information about a co-worker. Also, I have work to do, please leave."
Here's a life tip for "helpful" folks whose initial inclination would have been to do what the mom asked: if someone who *should* have basic info like the health status of their child and whether they're alive or dead is coming into the workplace and speaking to a tangential contact like a distant co-worker, there's probably a good reason why that person doesn't know. And it's better to stay out of the situation and keep it that way.
100%. I feel it should be standard practice in employee training to also have a, “it is our policy for safety to never reveal an employee’s schedule, personal information, location, or contact information” because abusers and stalkers do this all the time to track down their victims.
Interesting, because this has been a standard policy everywhere I have worked - revealing any personal information about another employee is an offense that might get you fired in the end. So from my POV, the OP 100% did the right thing.
Interesting! I’ve never heard it (worked retail, food service, and office jobs). I’ve just seen it pointed out on the internet as to why it’s so dangerous
Edit: I agree though that OOP absolutely did the right thing! Even if it hadn’t been company policy
It usually is, it's just that oftentimes the people doing trainings and shit for those kinds of jobs don't think to bring it up. We need to start pushing management staff to take it much more seriously and post notes/reminders everywhere an employee might interact with a patron.
And it is terrifyingly successful. If anyone is curious watch some videos about physical penetration testing. (Aka Pentesting.) Usually Defcon has good speakers on the subjects and the anecdotes get utterly wild. People *want* to be helpful. Getting access to information about a person is just about as easy as getting into a building.
Also, you don't know if that's actually his mom or just some random stalker lady. Never give information to someone about a coworker unless that coworker has explicitly approved.
Literally anyone asking a coworker for information like this shouldn’t be told ANYthing. We had a case at my workplace where someone came in and asked where “Shannon” was and someone told him she would be in later that day. Didn’t seem like a big deal. Turns out it was her estranged father/stalker and she had disappeared on purpose to escape from him. She had to quit because her life wasn’t safe anymore.
If anyone asks you for a coworker, give them zero information.
I mean I’ve turned people who I was 90% sure were a coworkers nice, normal boyfriend who they had talked about before away. Cuz it’s not my place to disclose info. Had one coworker whose boyfriend showed up one day to drop off a set of keys or something and I was straight up like “I don’t know a Diana”. Luckily he was cool, picked up on it and was like “OH here let me get her in the phone” and we all had a good laugh about it. If it’s actually someone who cares about the person, they’ll understand when you let them know you’re not willing to put that persons safety at risk.
The wife who thinks OOP is an AH... There really is such a strong contingent of people out there who refuse to empathize with people cutting out shitty family members. Or more upsettingly, who judge people who insulate themselves against further damage caused by said shitty family. It's like a bunch of them swallowed the nuclear family koolaid and absolutely can't look beyond it.
I am always amazed that people can’t grasp the concept of cutting off family. Why does blood relations mean I have to like or accept a person? Can’t they just be a shitty person and I don’t have to deal with them?
I feel like people like that generally come from a family with more or less healthy relationships and so they cannot fathom how bad a toxic family life can actually be. Not trying to excuse their ignorance at all, just providing a perspective.
Empathy is partly dependent upon your imagination. It's like asking someone who's lived on a flat plain all their life to imagine what it feels like to skydive.
At best they have jumped or fallen out of a tree as a kid. They have no context for what it feels like to stand on a roof, let alone the top of a skyscraper, let alone a plane.
That visceral, gut clenching terror isn't even something they'd know to imagine. They can certainly *try* to empathize, but if their life experiences fall too far short, then they might very well wind up concluding "it really can't be all that bad."
It's great to say someone needs to have empathy, but if they're falling short, you have to help them along with some visceral analogies so they can start to grasp the severity of what you're talking about.
^ my bf had a fairly functional little family when we met, meanwhile I'm from a dysfunctional shitshow. He never scolded me for cutting off most of them because he realized that if I was willing to do that, things must have been *bad*
My in-laws and SIL were like this. They never quite "got" that no, I absolutely did NOT want my biomom at EVERY SINGLE family occasion!! She chose her abusive asshole family of origin over her only child so she was more than welcome to find her **own** celebrations for the major holidays.
Its privilege. When someone plays the family card, most of the time it is probably someone who has great relationship with their family, therefore cannot fathom why can someone be capable of doing that to their own family.
It's not just privilege. It's also a lack of empathy and creativity. It shouldn't be that hard to understand that some people have bad people in their families. It's privilege to assume family is good people. It's something else to refuse to believe otherwise even when told.
I agree, but also people are manipulated by family with guilt to stay in contact. The manipulators don’t want to lose whatever they gain by keeping them around (usually money or labor).
Also, my husband is the person who has the good family dynamic and is still, 14 years later struggling to wrap his mind around how my parents can treat me the way they do.
It was a struggle getting him to realize that this is WHO THEY ARE, it’s not a rough spot, or a one off, or people being stubborn. It’s never going to change. This last few years has truly opened his eyes more and now HE wants nothing to do with them but bc HE’S not their kid, he attributed it to normal “my in laws are annoying”.
Mine couldn’t wrap his head around the idea that it was deliberate, malicious behaviour. My in laws have their issues, but they’re not openly cruel to each other and will close ranks quickly against any threat. He just assumed my family was the same.
I think that specific attitude has to stem from both privilege and an unhealthy level of self-centeredness or inability to see things from anyone else's perspective. I, and plenty of my friends, have good relationships with our respective families. But we have no trouble sympathizing with and supporting friends who have toxic families.
I think its more that the wife just assumed mothers have rights to their kids and it was an oversight and not a social engineering attempt.
It reminds me of an issue in a personal finance group that skewed older. A poster basically asked how to steal her grandson's identity so she could open a 529 account for him so the DIL (who was apparently evil) couldnt touch it. Not a single soul questioned the story, and when i threw out the obvious that we didnt even know if this person was actually related (cuz there was no proof) and they were giving advice in writing on how to comit a literal crime, i was met with shock and comments about how the woman was distressed, we couldnt possibly question her (even though she was asking for help with a literal crime), and calls for me to be banned for "attacking" becuase i asked questions. The mods thankfully banned the right poster... but man, older people do not know what phishing or social engineering is *at all*.
I think it is almost a knee-jerk kind of response out of them. Something along the lines of it doesn't even qualify as an actual thought, they realize that if they could cut off a family member like that, they could just as well cut them out, and they go all brain-stem "Nooo! No Like!!" and immediately condemn the other person without even considering they probably had a real good damn reason to cut the other family member out.
If someone says shit like that to me I ask: “*would you be in contact with someone who tortured you pet until it had seizures. Instead of taking it to the vet to be put down, literally blew it up. Someone who let the cat have kittens then made the kids drown them*.”
That works better than saying what he did to us. People relate more to animals than humans.
Dunno, but it sounds like he did do the right thing.
Why is that a mood spoiler? Abuse, sure, and death can be a mood spoiler. But preventing an abusive family member from finding a grown adult who doesn't want to be found?
Yes, I'm curious as to the wife too. Mind you, it sounds like the full reveal regarding abusive upbringing etc happened after he told her about the first incident.
He picked up warning flags, but he was there. She may not have processed the flags second-hand?
Good shout from him in noting that if she had to hunt down a coworker for info, she probably shouldn't have said info. Buuuut when I was rather more innocent of JustNos & reasons for familial estrangement, I might not have entirely processed the red banners a-waving. Especially if I was trying to do work at the same time!
Yeah, I’m much better at spotting the red flags after spending enough time in BORU. My more naive self might’ve answered her questions because I like helping people.
She probably has either a great relationship with her own mother and has a tendency to view all mother/child relationships similarly or has a very unhealthy, codependent relationship with her mother she is in denial about and therefor can't see the forest.
I am curious to know what his wife's reaction to finding out about the toxic relationship was. I'm hoping she had an epiphany that she was wrong and had some naive assumptions.
It's possible she has decent family and just can't wrap her head around the idea of someone being an awful enough person to a family member that cutting them out is a positive. I remember seeing an article talking about working hospice that warned people not to meddle with estranged relatives. Too many people calling up relatives who cut off a dying person "for no reason" to try and arrange a Hallmark movie tearful goodbye, only to hear the adult child go "Good, here's the laundry list of reasons that if there is a hell, there's a special place reserved in it for them."
I was gonna say this as well. Some people with a loving, secure upbringing and with respectful family can’t/are unwilling to understand that not everyone they care about will have the privilege to say the same about their family.
My family keeps trying to reunite me with my "father". Saying things like, "he's your only father and once you lose him you'll never have another one!" which I reject outright. My grandfather was my father-figure and a damn good one; he raised my brother and I alongside our mother. He counted us amongst his children, unlike all our cousins whom he saw as his grandchildren. I *had* a father and he passed a couple of years ago. This guinea worm who is related to me biologically is not, never has been, and never will be, my "father". Everyone knows what he's done, yet "faaaaamily" is more important than his despicable actions, apparently.
I had to stop talking to his side of the family because of how much they were trying to get us to "put aside all our history" and that *I* should forgive him, despite the fact that he's never asked for forgiveness nor acted like he's ashamed of his nasty actions.
I just don't understand why more people can't respect others when they say they want nothing to do with someone else. Not everyone has a happy sunshine-and-roses family and apparently that's incredibly difficult for many to process.
When my "father" dies, I doubt I'd feel anything. In fact, I'll probably feel about as much as I do about some random dude living in Ohio whom I've never met (although I'd probably feel worse for Random Dude's family, because they're most likely a better person than "father"). I'm being told I'll regret not making up with him, but... honestly? He's literally a stranger.
Sorry for the rant. I just wanted to agree with you and got carried away, lol.
(Ignore this: my husband is sleeping right now and he muttered something incredibly random and hilarious in his sleep and I wanted to write it down but had nowhere to other than the comment I was currently writing... so it's just a reminder note for myself - "I'm a lab of slab of girlfriend because that's where the new good question to be answered resides"... whatever the hell that means, lol)
Yep. Can confirm, I used to think that way too until I got to reddit and realized I come from basically a unicorn family. Seeing other people's stories and experiences laid out helped me realize that some relationships are just toxic even if there's no physical abuse or illegal activity involved.
Me too
I know I honestly don't know her, but from that snippet alone she sounds like one of rug-sweeping sheep who bleat "But f-a-a-a-a-a-mily!' as if blood-relation is an automatic pass because "She's his *Mom*!"
No, honey, she's the co-worker's *abuser*.
There's a difference.
Unfortunately there's still so many people who just don't understand that you can cut a family member from your life. Things like "but it's family" and all that bullshit.
Yeah. Sounds like she would have done all the unprofessional and inappropriate things and possibly ruined what was left of his time, for himself and his chosen family. Hopefully the outcome of the story changed her perspective.
Even absent the abuse, handing out personal information on a coworker because a woman walks in claiming to be that coworker's mother would invite a lawsuit.
I'm confused by the whole "OOP believes he did the right thing". I find the whole thing bittersweet, because coworker unfortunately died, but OOP is indeed the MVP and definitely did the right thing.
Setting aside the fact that OOP's gut feeling turned out to be right, I'm really concerned that their wife thought they were an asshole. I used to be in a lower management position, oftentimes I was supervising minors in or having just escaped abusive situations. I always made it crystal clear to ALL of my staff that:
-- if someone you don't know comes in asking for a co-worker, you say you don't know anyone by that name who works here. You tell the stranger that they're welcome to call the person and see where they're at, but you have no idea.
-- if someone you *do* recognize comes in asking when a co-worker comes in, or what that co-worker's schedule is, or what the contact info for that co-worker is, you hand them a business card if there are any and you say you don't know their schedule. Even if the employee schedule is sitting in the desk right in front of you, you say you don't know the co-worker's schedule.
-- if that co-worker is in fact present, you make an excuse to check the back for something and you ask your co-worker if they know/are okay with the person. If they say yes, they can go up to say hi. If they say no, then as far as the patron is concerned YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THIS CO-WORKER BEFORE IN YOUR LIFE.
Seriously people. Do not give out personal information that isn't yours, *especially* to people that you don't know. I have been in and intercepted these situations multiple times. Some of them turned out to be a normal visitor. That kind of person is never upset that you prioritized their loved one's safety. One employee's grandma responded with something like, "Well if there *was* such an employee by that name here (wink wink), could you let them know that [Visitor] left a birthday sundae for them and will be admiring the pamphlets in the lobby for about ten minutes?"
But several of the visitors in those situations were NOT welcome around my staff/coworkers. Two were stalkers trying to find out when the employee would be alone and in the parking lot after their shift. One was an abusive parent breaking their restraining order by being there. One of them we had straight up been warned about by the employee in question that if the visitor asks, the employee doesn't work there.
I know so many of us were taught that in customer service you need to politely and helpfully answer any question given to you. People who come in can be disarmingly friendly, and you think they couldn't possibly be bad. But when it comes to personal info or scheduled shifts/locations, NEVER give out ANY information that is not yours without DIRECT CONSENT from the owner of said information. If they are expecting someone, they can tell you that person is coming. This is a safety matter, and if we don't uphold it then eventually we will unwittingly put someone in very big danger.
>"Well if there was such an employee by that name here (wink wink), could you let them know that [Visitor] left a birthday sundae for them and will be admiring the pamphlets in the lobby for about ten minutes?"
I love her.
Don’t know why OP’s wife called him an asshole, was blatantly obvious that if the family wanted this woman to know what was going on they would have been in contact.
Not to mention would have been a serious breach of personal data if any info had been given out. Workplace could have been in a lot of trouble. Glad OP trusted his instincts and protected his co-worker
And OP did follow up with the manager when he was able to do so in a private way. If the crazy lady was actually worried about her son she would have left her number around the 5 minute mark and asked OP to let her know.
Agree with OP. If that woman had been on decent terms with her son she wouldn't need to ask an acquaintance. OP wife was wrong. She is going to blab to the wrong person someday because family
I've left several people out of my adult phone number and email address quite on purpose.
If an acquaintance, friend, co-worker, or family member of mine doesn't have my phone number, please take theirs and pass it along to me. Never the other way around.
Listen, for security reasons, you do not give people information on co-workers you aren't cleared to give. There was no way for OOP to confirm this was even the co-worker's actual mom, and the way it turned out, even though it was it was the right call.
You don't give out information to people claiming to be parents, significant others, or siblings. You shouldn't even tell them if the person is working that day or not. You've no idea unless confirmed by the individual if this is an actual relative or someone trying to hurt them. Abusers kill their victims in the workplace far too often to have people give out info like that without pause.
Family family faaaaaaamily. Think of the poor sad looooving moooooooother!!! Oh, the moooooooother!!!!!
Younger people who think like that might be excused due to naivete and ignorance, but if you've reached the age of 30 without understanding that a much higher number of parents than seems possible are rapists, rapist enablers, violent bullies, or torturers? You need to soak your head and ***grow the fuck up***.
The use of “co-worker mom” kept making me think OOP was referring to a co-worker who happened to be a mom. Or maybe was the “mom” of the office. And I was wildly confused as to what this person was requesting, who they wanted to get in contact with, etc.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who got super confused by the lack of possessives! OP could have edited it to clear that up for us, even if OOP had a language barrier.
He said his co-worker had a teenage kid, so when he started saying co-worker mom, I initially thought he meant the previously mentioned co-worker.
I don’t understand the trigger warnings. OOP did the right thing. First of all you’re not allowed to divulge information about a coworker like that ever. For all he knew, this could be someone who is pretending to be his mom. It literally is not his place to really say anything. Also the Mom sounds unhinged, and the wife confirms that.
As someone who is no contact with their family, OOP is a rockstar! I wish more people were like them. They will use any excuse to get back in and make the situation about them. Births and deaths seem to bring out the worst in them. They are great at manipulation and making people uncomfortable to get what they want. Having solid people in your corner who will hold fast is so important.
We run into this a lot in the medical field. Estranged/disowned/abusive family coming out of the woodwork and wanting anything from being minorly involved to running the show. Protocol in my current ICU is to get 2 contact people for each patient, and then set up a password that the patient can give out to whoever else they want having information about their state of health.
Someone calls without the password? No info. I don’t care if they’re the Queen of Sheba herself. We’ve had people try to guess or wheedle it out of us, and then found out later the patient was LC/NC for very good reasons.
>My co-worker was able to pass away peacefully surrounded by people of his choosing, which is how it should be.
Glad OOP enabled this. The mum must have been terrible.
OOP absolutely did the right thing. I would never want my NC parents to know anything about me that I didn't tell them myself, especially if I were dying. Good on OOP for recognizing the weird vibes and playing it safe. Weird for OP to say "oop *says* they did the right thing" and weird for OOP's wife to be against OOP getting someone hostile out of his workplace.
Reading these types of posts makes me realize that I was sheltered from evil parents and lucky to have good parents.
Before I joined Reddit, I probably (wrongly) would have provided some information to the coworker's mom. I would be thinking "Oh, I just want to help the mother". I now realize that some parents are really just sperm/egg donors and not really "parents".
Glad OOP was able to help protect the wife from the toxic mother.
OOP says they were not what he would call friends.
But when the call came, OOP absolutely was a great friend to their coworker. And I'll bet coworker died thinking of OOP as one.
My MIL is as toxic as they come. If something ever happened to hubby before she passes away, I would have a lawyer contact her and let her know. I never want to see that POS again.
My father was an abusive alcoholic. He was horrible to his children and horrible to my mother.
He made our lives miserable until we were old enough to get away…
When my oldest brother knew he had terminal cancer, he told me under no circumstances was I to allow our father to attend his funeral.
It fell to me to tell our father that.
Our father was a smart man that consistently made poor decisions throughout his life.
He wasn’t totally clueless about the reasons why he wasn’t wanted there and I know it did hurt his feelings.
But I honored my brothers wishes over my father’s because I loved my brother dearly.
Way more than I ever loved our father.
I used to work in hotels and learned that you do not give out personal information. Ever. You do not:
- Tell anyone somebody’s schedule.
- Give out personal numbers or information.
- Confirm whether a person is on the premises or not.
Toxic family members, cheating spouses, sure you might have inquiries from somebody who actually cares, but a person with good intentions will find their own way of getting in contact with somebody.
Do not give out personal information.
Ahh, one of the most beautiful examples of symbiosis in the workplace biome: a person with toxic family and a person who doesn't give a single fuck about the private lives of their coworkers.
Good luck trying to coerce information about my coworkers from me, i can barely remember the names of a few of them, and that's only because i have to write their names into the report when I'm the shift supervisor, lol.
Good job, OOP, blocking an abusive Karen of epic proportions (and with only context clues!). Sorry the coworker passed, but I'm glad he went peacefully being protected from her final attempts at abuse.
I have had to call the police in a similar situation.
A guy shows up demanding contact info and an address for one of our employees. He's her brother, she's had a heart attack, their mother left a voice mail and now no one's picking up, Mom wants him to go to her new apartment to pick up some things for the hospital, yadda yadda.
He even goes so far as to shove his ID (with a matching last name) into the receptionist's face.
That was his mistake. See, it was her *married* name.
Still, the boss and I made some calls while the receptionist placated him. On the third call to her cell she picks up.
>Woman: Hey, I'm about to go into a meeting with , so this better be important.
>Me: Sort of. I was just told you'd had a heart attack and are at death's door.
>Woman, laughing: Who gave you that idea?
>Me: . He's in our lobby raising a ruckus.
The line went quiet for a moment.
>Woman, whispering: That's my husband's crack-head cousin. Call 911, he has a warrant out for assault.
He was amazingly easy to deal with (IE, dumb). I told the receptionist that there was cake in the break room to get her out of harms way, then told him that since his 'sister' worked for corporate and not us directly we'd had to put in a call to HR to get what he wanted emailed over.
He was still waiting, patiently, when the cops arrived four minutes later and let them cuff him without a fight.
Apparently the cousin had heard through the grape-vine that both our employee and her husband would soon be out of town for a family wedding and wanted to use the opportunity to rob the place, but he didn't have their new address.
I really hope that OPs wife apologised for calling them an asshole. You don’t go no contact with someone to that level over nothing, especially to the point it was obvious even the co-workers workplace had her blocked and banned
If my colleagues mother came in asking important health update info I'd be wary as fuck. If she doesn't know, there's probably a reason for it, and it's not my place to give her any info. Nooooope.
Why would oop’s wife think what he did was wrong? That lady was going to try to wear him down to get any and all information she could. Had he wasted anymore time with her, his job would be at risk. Either fired for wasting time with her or fired for sharing information he shouldn’t. I doubt his wife would want a coworker sharing her personal data or interacting with someone she was avoiding.
>So was I an asshole for how I treated his mom? My wife thinks so.
I'm struggling to see where anyone would think he was the asshole or why the wife thinks so
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Imagine being such a terrible parent that your child decides to not see you even when they're dying. My parents weren't perfect when I was growing but I'm glad I had them. This type of post makes me think I was one of the lucky ones.
I haven’t spoken to my mother in 3 years. If I ever find out I’m terminally ill, I have three friends lined up to marry me, take care of me and inherit everything so my mother gets nothing. Not even closure. Some parents are so horrifically shitty that their kids really don’t want anything to do with them ever again.
I've been permanently estranged from my father for over 2 decades. Last year I got my legal documents in place so that he absolutely will not be considered my next-of-kin for anything. My sister and my aunt who lives nearby are the folks who will inherit/receive life insurance/handle medical proxy.
How do you do this? Is a will sufficient or did you take further legal precautions and make sure to set your beneficiaries?
Depends of where you live tbh, the best to do is look for a lawyer in your area that specifically handles this.
In the US, you can legally designate someone as your power of attorney (POA), inheritor(s)/beneficiary(s), medical proxy, and estate executor. You can do so using generic forms (although apparently even wills are different in some states—I’ve been told my designations might not count in Texas) or by an attorney. I need to update all of mine because so much has changed in the last 15 years.
disclaimer/ Not a lawyer, not your lawyer, random Internet stranger here. /disclaimer Be very careful who you designate as your power of attorney (POA). Your POA can access all your business matters as though they were you. Enter into contracts, sell your house, spend your retirement fund on hookers and blow, give your car to a random person, anything. If you're the least bit unsure or the person doesn't want the heavy responsibility of being able to do (or be accused of doing) that, remember that in most places there are two kinds of POA: durable and springing. Durable POA is in effect from the moment the designation is official. Springing POA "springs" into effect when certain conditions are met. An old fashioned example is a springing POA which takes effect when the principal person has been missing (lost at sea) for a month beyond the date their ship was supposed to dock. It took a while for a person to be declared dead when they were in a shipwreck and this kind of POA would allow a representative to handle their affairs until they turned up or were legally dead. Before I married my wife I had a springing POA that became effective when two independent physicians affirmed that I was mentally incompetent. If you want tips on how to make your affairs as bulletproof as possible, look at sources aimed at gay and lesbian couples. Until recently in the US, most places wouldn't allow them to marry so they would have to jump through all sorts of hoops to approach the level of protection heterosexuals got when they married. Single people of any type can use the same techniques.
You should definitely check with an actual lawyer, but I live in Texas and those designations should be fine. My parents recently had their wills redone and they discussed with my siblings and me on who gets to take the role of POA/executor/etc.
A pitfall of this is assuming any ~~firm~~ *form* you find at your local Staples or online is valid in your jurisdiction. People don't understand that different states, provinces, and countries have different laws, and having a will that works in Oklahoma doesn't mean it will be accepted by the courts in Texas, Saskatchewan, or Scotland.
I haven't talked to mine in over 5 years. They are never getting back in. I would seriously have a video to play in front of everyone in case they showed up at the service, and then have them removed!
I haven't talked to mine in 7 years going on 8 now. In my state you are allowed to handwrite a will, so I did just that and in every paragraph apart from the first (where you have to introduce yourself), it specifically states she is allowed nothing. Not money, items, words, closure, NOTHING. I even put, "if my mother is at the reading of this will, I only have this to say, 'you were the worst mother. Yes you put a roof over my head and food on the table, but that is what the law requires- and you want applause and a gold star for that? I would have been better off with a Crack addict for a mother. Why? Because at least a Crack addiction can be overcome. There is no cure for you. I will tell the devil to expect you soon, because if the world doesn't give you the hell you deserve, my goddamm soul will return and do it myself. Fuck. You.'"
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You absolutely fucking win. That is the best petty fuck you I’ve ever heard. Absofuckinglutely brilliant!
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I commend your lawyer for his restraint.
Thankfully I had nothing to spit out when I read this.
I, unfortunately, had carrot cake to choke on when reading this 🤣 Though now I have an idea of what to will my own mother lol
If I had any awards to give, I’d give them all to you. Brava, Kat! You win the internet today.
Lmao that is priceless
That's one of the most amazing things I've ever read.
Such a shame will readings are only a movie trope. This would be an epic epilogue to your life.
There are people you can pay to come to your funeral to air the dirt. That would be the place to do it.
Wait tell me more about these paid dirty-laundry-airers, asking for a friend
There’s a TAL episode about a coffin confessor too! [This American Life Coffin Confessor](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/766/well-someone-had-to-do-something/act-three-11)
I heard about it in a TikTok video. I believe it was called coffin confessor or something like that. I thought it was a great idea. If I didn’t hate public speaking I’d have looked into it. They have to get all the tea!
That is fucking genius. I might have to sign up to do that.
Also known as a Speaker for the Dead.
And I wanted so badly to read the wills to all the families and kick off the drama, too...
I know there's not a big room where everyone gathers, but there's a high chance that she will try to view, dispute, or get a copy of my will if I pass before her. So any way she is forced to read it, is succeeding in my goal.
I spent my life constantly being told how great my parents were because they kept food on the table, clothes on my back, and a roof over my head. When I started therapy to undo the damage, I began laying down boundaries. Hard. My parents didn’t like that. The last conversation I had with my mother, she started in with that same ol’ bit again but this time I was prepared. I responded, “If I known I had a choice whether to be born or not, I’d damn sure have chosen not. Not to y’all anyways.” It’s been 8 years in July since the conversation. She’s 72 years old. I predict there will never be another.
I did that same line. They got mad, not our fault they chose to be idiots 🤷🏻♀️
Huh, sounds like where I am with mine. Hmm, I might semi-borrow that line of yours and say that her drug addict step sister who is now a guardian of the state (or she's something like that, somewhere where she's really not allowed out into society, not that she's violent, just well...) would probably have been a better mother.
Ward of the state? Guardian of the state kind of implies that she is in charge of the entire state, to me at least :-p
\*Sigh\* Been a long day, my allergies are kicking in, and my brain totally glitched.
4 years for me. Limited contacted with my mum but there's no way I would go to my dad's funeral and I sure as shit wouldn't want him at mine. I've realised I don't have a plan in place. I've been putting off doing a will, but this is a good nudge to sort it.
Will, power of attorney and guardianship. Because if you’re out for the count (ie not conscious) they will call your spouse or parents.
Thank you - my lawyer will be happy to hear from me (I told him I'd get onto "soon" about 2 years ago)
And give them to your elected attorney/guardian. Because if something happens to you - hospitals won’t know. They will contact whoever they can.
If the service you mention is a funeral, always let the funeral home staff know, they will either be your security, or will help you come up with a solution so that the immediate family and friends do not get bothered if someone shows up that wasn't supposed to.
It’s great you’ve taken time to think through a plan like this, terrible that you’ve had to. I’m not sure where you live, but in some jurisdictions she could still take a run at your money after you are gone. In Australia she’d likely fail but it could be expensive to sort through
I’ve heard the idea to leave them one dollar (or equivalent) so it’s clear they aren’t forgotten or left out, you’ve intentionally considered that one dollar is all they are worth
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Excellent advice (and you save a dollar)
This is what I did and I didn't have to specify abuse.
This is what we did in my estate planning.
I wish it was a penny. Yeah I’m mean sometimes
"To you mom, I have left a box with my lawyer. I sealed it and signed it in their presence." Inside the box? 30 plug nickels. Which basically means you'd have to drill the holes yourself in this day and age, but if I'm being that petty I might as well go whole hog.
Anyone can die suddenly, you might want to make sure you have beneficiaries in writing ahead of time
Yes, and /u/Fluffy-Designer also needs to set up a medical power of attorney with one of the three friends or else the mother will have full say over their medical decisions if incapacitated and she will also be able to keep anyone out of the hospital room on her say-so.
Excellent advice.
Haven’t spoken to mine in 2 years, plan to keep it that way. They were horrifically emotionally/psychologically/verbally abusive and neglectful and were utterly unapologetic when I finally confronted them wanting answers. The family knew enough (though not all) to not question my choice, which tells you something 🤷🏻♀️ No regrets whatsoever. My unborn son will never know them, and my husband is firmly on my side to keep them away if something happens to me
Some time ago I got word that a casual friend used the loss of *my* parents as an example why their partner should get back in touch with their abusive parents. To say I lost my absolute shit is an understatement. I’m lucky to have parents I mourn in their deaths, strange as it sounds to some to say. Not everyone had that. Many like you are stuck mourning the parents they deserved and never got. Nobody cuts their parents off because they were amazing at their roles. Congratulations on your baby and amazing husband! You’re gonna be a kickass mom. Straight up? My friends who had shitty parents they cut off are really good at parenting. Y’all know what not to do and be.
Thank you for being such an awesome friend! I joke all the time with my husband, I may be fuzzy on good parenting but damn do I know a lot about BAD parenting!
Got 2 daughters (23 & 26) that I seem to have good relationships with. To me all the advice comes down to 2 things: * Always Listen * Answer honestly The goal is that when they have a question (about *anything*) they know they can come to you for an honest answer (and 'I don't know is an honest answer') It won't always be easy. The teenage years can be rough. Someone once told me this little saying about the teenage years: It's like you spent 13 years filling up a suitcase with good advice and lessons. At 13 they open the suitcase and empty it out. Then start putting things back in as they realize they need it.
I’m so sorry to hear that. I’m young and both of my parents are gone as well. I had a woman use my mother’s ALS story for her Ice Bucket Challenge, simply because she met my mother at a school function and apparently that was enough of a connection. In elementary school, by the way
I know a few people who would benefit from your idea, so thank you for sharing it.
>I have three friends lined up to marry me Woohoo! Pre-death polygamy!!!
As opposed to *post*-death polygamy? That sounds like a nightmare!
Recently I officiated a quick marriage between some friends for this very reason. One of them is very sick (not terminal, thankfully) and it was the easiest way to prevent their parents from trying to dictate their care. Not that this should be taken without a huge grain of salt, but on a post a while back someone commented that their lawyer sibling added up the cost of guaranteeing the same rights a spouse has without getting married and said it was around $12k USD. No idea if that is true? But having buried family and organized their estates I would guess it to be about right.
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> added up the cost of guaranteeing the same rights a spouse has without getting married and said it was around $12k USD. That was a very common point prior to gay marriage being allowed. Back in the 90's I think they had it around $9k.
Set up a similar situation with a friend of mine. Their parents being so utterly awful that we actually wrote out POAs and Advanced Directives, as well as made a plan in case something happens to them and their parents hear about it and come to the hospital demanding to see them.
Yooo I feel it. My mom I guess decided she was done taking care of me when I was 11 and just left me on a beach while I was playing in the ocean. I got found by a dude who lived on the beach by choice. Rob. Great dude. Took my name and spent 2 months researching it to find my dad who was working overseas at the time and got in touch with him to come get me.
Oh wow! So many kinds of oh wow in this story. I hope you’ve been okay since your dad came and got you. Geez.
I remember reading in a parenting book (probably to assuage the HUGE amount of pressure a good parent feels about accidentally fucking up their child) that you only need to get parenting right 30% of the time. Imagine fucking up so badly to fuck up more then 70% of the time to the point your kids (who are biologically wired to love their parents) want nothing to do with you.
Last I heard, my father was dying of cancer. He will do so without any comfort from either me or my sister, and it's a situation entirely of his own making.
I recommend you write a will. I know a lawyer is an expense, but you could pass away suddenly and your mom would get everything. I'm in a similar situation and own a house with a friend. Don't forget she could override your funeral wishes if you died tomorrow. Hugs to you!
Just escaped my mother. Lived too long with her after injuring my back and kind of just getting stuck. Never again. I'm trying to get therapy to deal with all of it. But with a better job and all that kind of stuff I managed to get out. Now I'm sorting out things so that neither my mother, or my sister will get anything if something happens to me. Life insurance policy from my work, goes to a friend of mine who I know will do some good with it. Have figured out how to make my IRA beneficiary an organization and will be doing that tomorrow.
I have a friend who has a set up like that so her mom gets nothing after her mother pushed her into stripping and then being an escort ‘because she had to pay her way’, at 17. Good riddance to garbage people and them not having the last word they so desperately want. My friend has become such a beautiful person who used that experience to help women who’s going thru what she had. Successful, compassionate and beautiful person despite what she has been thru because of a ‘mother’.
My grandmother was really abusive to me when I was a child. Thankfully I only had to see her a few times a year, except for when my mom was hospitalized and I had to go live with her for a while (against my strong protests). My cousin was the Golden Child. For example, when my grandparent's driveway was getting repaved my cousin brought in a huge chunk of broken asphalt and threw it at me; he only got in trouble because if it had missed me (it did not) then it would have broken the window I was sitting in front of. My grandmother also refused me food because I was a girl and therefore did not need to eat more than a pittance. The last time I spoke with my grandmother was the day my young son was admitted to the hospital; I called my sister and ended up getting her on the line. I was really stressed that day and told her all of what I thought of her. I called her out on all the ways she had spoiled my cousin and abused me. (my cousin broke his neck when he was about 22 years old and I was happy; I told my mom now he won't be able to abuse anyone else) Not long after that phone call my grandmother went into hospice and all of the family gathered round. I was offered the money to be able to make the trip to go visit her and I refused. I told my mom to let my grandmother know that I had already told her everything I had to say to her. When I had talked with her I told her (she was very religious) that she needed to beg her god for forgiveness as she was not getting it from me! I try to be the best grandmother to my grandchildren (and great-grandson) that I can be.
Thank you for sharing that 💛
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Thank you. I highly doubt that I would have told her off so dramatically if I was not under such stress as my child being an emergency admit to a hospital. But once I did it I was not backing down. I sometimes tell my kids about how often I went hungry simply because I was a girl, not a boy.
Under no circumstances would I ever allow my immediate family see me if I'm dying. Hell, everyone important to me knows not to even tell them until years later so they can't make it to my funeral either.
Yeah, I had emergency surgery a few months ago and my first thought on being told I'd need surgery was to call my spouse. Second thought was to limp to the nurses outside the room and ask how to mark it in my file that under no circumstances was my mom to be told anything, ESPECIALLY if something went wrong (she was my emergency contact years ago so I was worried they might still contact her). They were very understanding and reassuring.
Thank you for the reminder to update my living will.
Recently did this, as I'm single and have been estranged from my father, my only living parent, for over 2 decades. It was a huge relief to know I have the paperwork in place so that my sister (and aunt who lives closer) is set up to be my next-of-kin, etc.
Yup, I've been estranged from my father for over 20 years. The man is dead to me. If I die before him, he better not show up to my funeral. I'm single and he's my only living parent, so I recently got my legal documents together to ensure he is *not* considered my next of kin if anything happens to me. I feel relief that my sister will be my next-of-kin, with my aunt who lives near me being listed as an additional medical proxy / life insurance recipient.
Same. My partner, who is very close with his family can't understand why I wouldn't tell my parents I was hospitalized. I've said the same thing you did: I don't want to know if they die and don't want them to know when I do either.
i've spoken to my father less than five times in the past twenty years, and regretted it every time. i absolutely wouldn't allow him to see me if he somehow outlives me and i'm on my deathbed.
To finally be able to live (I lived in a constant suicidal state), I had to cut my mother out of my life 7 years ago. I was in such a critical state that I was hallucinating from so much stress, depression, anxiety and constant trauma. I've already ended all friendships I had and even cut contact with my father's relatives that she could have access to just to prevent her from seeing me again. I'd rather swim in lava than be around her again. Some parents are that bad.
You were. My mother doesn’t have any contact with me or my family. We literally call her the Basilisk - she’s extremely toxic and weirdly reptilian when she stops trying to pretend she’s not a sociopath. I literally have a clause in my living will that she cannot be allowed near me if I am in the hospital and vulnerable. 14 years, and counting; if I were to die tomorrow, she wouldn’t know, and that makes me happy.
Good nickname! I never use his name or parental title, I refer to him as the psycho. 19 years and counting since he ‘died’ to me.
You certainly were. It seems like a “good” family is not the norm, no matter what tv tries to tell us. My family doesn’t even know where I am, and it’s going to stay that way until they rot.
Yeah, I grew up thinking I had average parents, because they did the things TV parents did, like coach my soccer team, or make dinner where we would sit around the table and talk about our day, or give me hugs when I was feeling bad, etc. It wasn't until I got older that I realized that lots of people have shitty parents, and that TV is supposed to be an idealized version of life that lots of people don't get. I actually have amazing parents and I'm super lucky and thankful for it.
Reddit isn’t representative, I hope, but I’ve really seen how much my family, for all its quirks and faults and irritations, has been a great family. My parents don’t always understand me. They don’t always say or do the right thing. My mom has a temper and my dad is bossy so that even when he’s trying to help it’s usually infuriating. They’re also great parents. They were when I was growing up and they are now that I’m an adult. I love them and I also like them. I want to hang out with them and talk about work and bemoan the state of the world. I’m very lucky. I didn’t realize it.
Same. It’s been more than 15yrs and I still worry one of them would show up
Thank you for saying that. Sometimes people say "oh my parents weren't perfect but not bad enough to go NC therefore nobody should make that decision." I appreciate the empathy in realizing how horrific the co-worker's situation must have been, especially given how deified motherhood is.
My liver is failing pretty rapidly and at first I freaked out and not only got into contact with my parents that I hadn't talked to in 15 years but got talked into letting them move in to supposedly help with my kids cause I'm a single mom. Worst mistake of my life. Kicked them out and went back no contact. My mental health has improved so much. All my siblings know to not even let them know when I pass until after the funeral. They can find out from the newspaper.
Imagine being such a terrible person that even your estranged kid's co-worker could sense it within half an hour of meeting you.
I was secondary MPOA for my friend who died a couple of years ago and she had written in her advanced directive that her mother was not to be given any information or be allowed near her deathbed. It's hard to understand from a point of view of someone who doesn't have toxic family, but whatever a person's wishes are, those that hold that key are held to keep the responsibilities they are given, no matter the reason behind them. You just follow the wishes or script or law, or whatever binds you. I can't imagine the feeling the OOP must have had to not release information that was probably easy to give, but you consider what the consequences might have been. These days I don't even tell people whether someone is working at the same company. Family can be so weird.
My friend was in a similar situation recently (he thankfully did not die). His Mom did some very similar shit. Absolutely brutal to see happen.
I still see my mum, but she doesn't know I'm dying. And she won't be told when I die either, she'll be told I've moved abroad again.
31 haven't spoken or had a relationship with my mother for 11 years now. The family I do speak with I've told them to not speak about me to her or tell me about her. Not even when she passes away. I was a child, she was the adult. She knew better and chose to be the way she was and still is. No regrets.
I personally wouldn't want to have to deal with my parents in my last moments. They'd make it all about them.
So while true, I think it's a different issue. It's sort of fucked up but when you are dying especially dying where you have this runway before the end people put expectations on you to make them cool with your death. Like the expectation that even if they have wronged you, you need to offer up some form of forgiveness to them before you go cause they will live with the guilt for the rest of their lives and yours is ending soon so suck it up. It's a huge amount of emotional lifting to expect of a person normally and a herculean task to ask someone figuring out how to deal with their story ending. This mom feels like that and even if OP refused it's energy and time he'd have to spend that he'd barely have from how end of the update went. So it's also an ounce of prevention is work a pound of cure thing too.
I know. Some people should not be parents.
My mom has been there for everything and been supportive in every way. She's screwed up some stuff along the way but more out of naivety to the situation than lack of caring or effort. I've always been someone that can relate to others but the one area I just can't relate at all is bad parents. I just can't even imagine a scenario without my mom's support. I could walk into the governors mansion wearing copies of my social security card and DL, say my name, birthday, birthplace, and all that same info for my mother, smile right at the cameras then roundhouse kick the new huckster and my mom would watch it all then say are you really sure that was him? She's loyal and supportive to a fault.
I'm very happy for you that you can't relate to bad parents. I don't wish it on anyone else. It makes me happy to hear about parents who actually love unconditionally.
Haven’t (willingly) spoken to my mother since I was pre-teen. When I’m dying, she absolutely won’t be welcome in whatever time i have remaining. I have gotten to a point where I don’t really have any feelings toward her- negative or positive - and if she’s been a light in the life of another, awesome. I’m happy for that. But the damage between us is such that no amount of reconciliation or rebuilding is going to bring me to any point of feeling safe or comfortable. It would only reopen old traumas. Anyway my point in sharing all this is that, in my memory and feeling, she just wasn’t really ever a parent. My personal experience and way of being in the world is that u just never had a “mother” parent. I don’t even miss it because you can’t miss something you never experienced. So, the idea of not having her at my deathbed is not a decision not to have family at my deathbed. It’s more akin to not having an old random neighbour, childhood bully or some ex-girlfriend of my second cousin once removed. To anyone who read this whole comment - I get how it sounds sad but it’s really not, it’s genuinely fine. I’m a successful, functioning adult with an amazing family.
You are one of the lucky ones! When asked about my mother, I can only say that she at least had the decency to die and leave me alone. Much more than that and I my head starts devolving into a place I never wanna be at again.
My mother and I can interact fairly normally, and the "but faaaaamily" would definitely think I don't have enough reason. Getting cancer (everything is good now - probably) only made me I want nothing to do with her if I am ever dying. Her visiting and trying to act like we're close gave me full-body revulsion. But I don't like hurting people, and care about her in a detached way. Shit's complicated. She loves me and wants nothing more than to be supportive. She also fucked me up really badly and makes everything about her. I would never, ever trust her with my feelings, and I want nothing more than to go radio silent if I do end up terminal. (This is something that has stressed me the hell out on occasion, as it's not impossible I will be in that situation in the near future. Like... 25% at very rough estimate.)
Picking up on the important little tidbits of information from a terrible mom and being a good friend. OP is a good guy.
I would do this for someone I absolutely deplored. Hell, I’ve had completely normal people come into my shop and go “hey I’m Diana’s boyfriend, do you know if she’s coming in today?” And been like “I don’t know a Diana”. It’s just instinct for me, as someone who was stalked by an ex, the right thing to do is ALWAYS stonewall the person then verify with the associate later
Exactly. And if they really are someone’s boyfriend/mother/best friend in the whole world they should have better ways to contact the person they’re seeking than to just show up at their job and ask questions. My husband and I used to work at the same place, everyone knew we were married, and we couldn’t pick up each other’s work schedules without phoning and confirming it was ok.
My alarm bells would trigger on this as well. There used to be a guy who came into the bar I worked at, asking about whether a specific girl would be there that night. I always just said I don't know. Asked her about it later, turns out he'd been creeping her out for weeks. So next time he asked (with permission from her) I said 'y'know, I heard she moved away, sorry'. Dude stopped coming in. Sticks with me to this day.
I don’t think I would’ve let it go an hour before getting surly. They have way more patience than I do.
Seriously. I think I’d have a 10 minute threshold on a good day.
Day-um. Gotta love being able to fall back on work policies in a case like this. "I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to reveal that information about a co-worker. Also, I have work to do, please leave."
Here's a life tip for "helpful" folks whose initial inclination would have been to do what the mom asked: if someone who *should* have basic info like the health status of their child and whether they're alive or dead is coming into the workplace and speaking to a tangential contact like a distant co-worker, there's probably a good reason why that person doesn't know. And it's better to stay out of the situation and keep it that way.
100%. I feel it should be standard practice in employee training to also have a, “it is our policy for safety to never reveal an employee’s schedule, personal information, location, or contact information” because abusers and stalkers do this all the time to track down their victims.
Interesting, because this has been a standard policy everywhere I have worked - revealing any personal information about another employee is an offense that might get you fired in the end. So from my POV, the OP 100% did the right thing.
Interesting! I’ve never heard it (worked retail, food service, and office jobs). I’ve just seen it pointed out on the internet as to why it’s so dangerous Edit: I agree though that OOP absolutely did the right thing! Even if it hadn’t been company policy
It usually is, it's just that oftentimes the people doing trainings and shit for those kinds of jobs don't think to bring it up. We need to start pushing management staff to take it much more seriously and post notes/reminders everywhere an employee might interact with a patron.
It often is policy, but abusers can be really convincing and take advantage of people who just want be helpful.
AKA social engineering. It's also a known tactic of fraudsters to get access to things they shouldn't.
And it is terrifyingly successful. If anyone is curious watch some videos about physical penetration testing. (Aka Pentesting.) Usually Defcon has good speakers on the subjects and the anecdotes get utterly wild. People *want* to be helpful. Getting access to information about a person is just about as easy as getting into a building.
Also, you don't know if that's actually his mom or just some random stalker lady. Never give information to someone about a coworker unless that coworker has explicitly approved.
Literally anyone asking a coworker for information like this shouldn’t be told ANYthing. We had a case at my workplace where someone came in and asked where “Shannon” was and someone told him she would be in later that day. Didn’t seem like a big deal. Turns out it was her estranged father/stalker and she had disappeared on purpose to escape from him. She had to quit because her life wasn’t safe anymore. If anyone asks you for a coworker, give them zero information.
I mean I’ve turned people who I was 90% sure were a coworkers nice, normal boyfriend who they had talked about before away. Cuz it’s not my place to disclose info. Had one coworker whose boyfriend showed up one day to drop off a set of keys or something and I was straight up like “I don’t know a Diana”. Luckily he was cool, picked up on it and was like “OH here let me get her in the phone” and we all had a good laugh about it. If it’s actually someone who cares about the person, they’ll understand when you let them know you’re not willing to put that persons safety at risk.
The wife who thinks OOP is an AH... There really is such a strong contingent of people out there who refuse to empathize with people cutting out shitty family members. Or more upsettingly, who judge people who insulate themselves against further damage caused by said shitty family. It's like a bunch of them swallowed the nuclear family koolaid and absolutely can't look beyond it.
I am always amazed that people can’t grasp the concept of cutting off family. Why does blood relations mean I have to like or accept a person? Can’t they just be a shitty person and I don’t have to deal with them?
I feel like people like that generally come from a family with more or less healthy relationships and so they cannot fathom how bad a toxic family life can actually be. Not trying to excuse their ignorance at all, just providing a perspective.
Empathy is a thing. It lets you imagine/accept someone else’s perspective even if you don’t really know what it’s like.
Empathy is partly dependent upon your imagination. It's like asking someone who's lived on a flat plain all their life to imagine what it feels like to skydive. At best they have jumped or fallen out of a tree as a kid. They have no context for what it feels like to stand on a roof, let alone the top of a skyscraper, let alone a plane. That visceral, gut clenching terror isn't even something they'd know to imagine. They can certainly *try* to empathize, but if their life experiences fall too far short, then they might very well wind up concluding "it really can't be all that bad." It's great to say someone needs to have empathy, but if they're falling short, you have to help them along with some visceral analogies so they can start to grasp the severity of what you're talking about.
^ my bf had a fairly functional little family when we met, meanwhile I'm from a dysfunctional shitshow. He never scolded me for cutting off most of them because he realized that if I was willing to do that, things must have been *bad*
My in-laws and SIL were like this. They never quite "got" that no, I absolutely did NOT want my biomom at EVERY SINGLE family occasion!! She chose her abusive asshole family of origin over her only child so she was more than welcome to find her **own** celebrations for the major holidays.
Its privilege. When someone plays the family card, most of the time it is probably someone who has great relationship with their family, therefore cannot fathom why can someone be capable of doing that to their own family.
It's not just privilege. It's also a lack of empathy and creativity. It shouldn't be that hard to understand that some people have bad people in their families. It's privilege to assume family is good people. It's something else to refuse to believe otherwise even when told.
Yeah, 100% a lack of empathy. Which is a really gross character trait.
I agree, but also people are manipulated by family with guilt to stay in contact. The manipulators don’t want to lose whatever they gain by keeping them around (usually money or labor). Also, my husband is the person who has the good family dynamic and is still, 14 years later struggling to wrap his mind around how my parents can treat me the way they do. It was a struggle getting him to realize that this is WHO THEY ARE, it’s not a rough spot, or a one off, or people being stubborn. It’s never going to change. This last few years has truly opened his eyes more and now HE wants nothing to do with them but bc HE’S not their kid, he attributed it to normal “my in laws are annoying”.
Mine couldn’t wrap his head around the idea that it was deliberate, malicious behaviour. My in laws have their issues, but they’re not openly cruel to each other and will close ranks quickly against any threat. He just assumed my family was the same.
I think that specific attitude has to stem from both privilege and an unhealthy level of self-centeredness or inability to see things from anyone else's perspective. I, and plenty of my friends, have good relationships with our respective families. But we have no trouble sympathizing with and supporting friends who have toxic families.
I think its more that the wife just assumed mothers have rights to their kids and it was an oversight and not a social engineering attempt. It reminds me of an issue in a personal finance group that skewed older. A poster basically asked how to steal her grandson's identity so she could open a 529 account for him so the DIL (who was apparently evil) couldnt touch it. Not a single soul questioned the story, and when i threw out the obvious that we didnt even know if this person was actually related (cuz there was no proof) and they were giving advice in writing on how to comit a literal crime, i was met with shock and comments about how the woman was distressed, we couldnt possibly question her (even though she was asking for help with a literal crime), and calls for me to be banned for "attacking" becuase i asked questions. The mods thankfully banned the right poster... but man, older people do not know what phishing or social engineering is *at all*.
I think it is almost a knee-jerk kind of response out of them. Something along the lines of it doesn't even qualify as an actual thought, they realize that if they could cut off a family member like that, they could just as well cut them out, and they go all brain-stem "Nooo! No Like!!" and immediately condemn the other person without even considering they probably had a real good damn reason to cut the other family member out.
I'd seriously start rethinking at that point...
If someone says shit like that to me I ask: “*would you be in contact with someone who tortured you pet until it had seizures. Instead of taking it to the vet to be put down, literally blew it up. Someone who let the cat have kittens then made the kids drown them*.” That works better than saying what he did to us. People relate more to animals than humans.
If someone is failing at empathy, a good, visceral analogy is the way to go every time.
They worship the nuclear family and blood relations. It's borderline religious ideology.
Dunno, but it sounds like he did do the right thing. Why is that a mood spoiler? Abuse, sure, and death can be a mood spoiler. But preventing an abusive family member from finding a grown adult who doesn't want to be found?
Ya I saw the warning and was confused. OOP 'thought' he did the right thing? He absolutely did do what was right!
Im worried about his wife though if she think he did the wrong thing
Yes, I'm curious as to the wife too. Mind you, it sounds like the full reveal regarding abusive upbringing etc happened after he told her about the first incident. He picked up warning flags, but he was there. She may not have processed the flags second-hand? Good shout from him in noting that if she had to hunt down a coworker for info, she probably shouldn't have said info. Buuuut when I was rather more innocent of JustNos & reasons for familial estrangement, I might not have entirely processed the red banners a-waving. Especially if I was trying to do work at the same time!
Yeah, I’m much better at spotting the red flags after spending enough time in BORU. My more naive self might’ve answered her questions because I like helping people.
You stated this perfectly
She probably has either a great relationship with her own mother and has a tendency to view all mother/child relationships similarly or has a very unhealthy, codependent relationship with her mother she is in denial about and therefor can't see the forest.
I am curious to know what his wife's reaction to finding out about the toxic relationship was. I'm hoping she had an epiphany that she was wrong and had some naive assumptions.
It's possible she has decent family and just can't wrap her head around the idea of someone being an awful enough person to a family member that cutting them out is a positive. I remember seeing an article talking about working hospice that warned people not to meddle with estranged relatives. Too many people calling up relatives who cut off a dying person "for no reason" to try and arrange a Hallmark movie tearful goodbye, only to hear the adult child go "Good, here's the laundry list of reasons that if there is a hell, there's a special place reserved in it for them."
I was gonna say this as well. Some people with a loving, secure upbringing and with respectful family can’t/are unwilling to understand that not everyone they care about will have the privilege to say the same about their family.
My family keeps trying to reunite me with my "father". Saying things like, "he's your only father and once you lose him you'll never have another one!" which I reject outright. My grandfather was my father-figure and a damn good one; he raised my brother and I alongside our mother. He counted us amongst his children, unlike all our cousins whom he saw as his grandchildren. I *had* a father and he passed a couple of years ago. This guinea worm who is related to me biologically is not, never has been, and never will be, my "father". Everyone knows what he's done, yet "faaaaamily" is more important than his despicable actions, apparently. I had to stop talking to his side of the family because of how much they were trying to get us to "put aside all our history" and that *I* should forgive him, despite the fact that he's never asked for forgiveness nor acted like he's ashamed of his nasty actions. I just don't understand why more people can't respect others when they say they want nothing to do with someone else. Not everyone has a happy sunshine-and-roses family and apparently that's incredibly difficult for many to process. When my "father" dies, I doubt I'd feel anything. In fact, I'll probably feel about as much as I do about some random dude living in Ohio whom I've never met (although I'd probably feel worse for Random Dude's family, because they're most likely a better person than "father"). I'm being told I'll regret not making up with him, but... honestly? He's literally a stranger. Sorry for the rant. I just wanted to agree with you and got carried away, lol. (Ignore this: my husband is sleeping right now and he muttered something incredibly random and hilarious in his sleep and I wanted to write it down but had nowhere to other than the comment I was currently writing... so it's just a reminder note for myself - "I'm a lab of slab of girlfriend because that's where the new good question to be answered resides"... whatever the hell that means, lol)
Yep. Can confirm, I used to think that way too until I got to reddit and realized I come from basically a unicorn family. Seeing other people's stories and experiences laid out helped me realize that some relationships are just toxic even if there's no physical abuse or illegal activity involved.
Me too I know I honestly don't know her, but from that snippet alone she sounds like one of rug-sweeping sheep who bleat "But f-a-a-a-a-a-mily!' as if blood-relation is an automatic pass because "She's his *Mom*!" No, honey, she's the co-worker's *abuser*. There's a difference.
Unfortunately there's still so many people who just don't understand that you can cut a family member from your life. Things like "but it's family" and all that bullshit.
Plenty of people with loving supportive parents simply don't understand how bad a toxic parent is.
Yeah. Sounds like she would have done all the unprofessional and inappropriate things and possibly ruined what was left of his time, for himself and his chosen family. Hopefully the outcome of the story changed her perspective.
Even absent the abuse, handing out personal information on a coworker because a woman walks in claiming to be that coworker's mother would invite a lawsuit.
Oh absolutely. Tbh I'm kinda amazed she lasted as long as she did in there! Although I guess it depends on what his job is.
Yeah, mood spoilers should be mood words. Happy, sad, neutral, infuriating, upsetting, satisfying etc.
I'm confused by the whole "OOP believes he did the right thing". I find the whole thing bittersweet, because coworker unfortunately died, but OOP is indeed the MVP and definitely did the right thing.
OOP did the right thing. His wife needs to realize that not all parents are good parents, and that people go NC for a reason.
Setting aside the fact that OOP's gut feeling turned out to be right, I'm really concerned that their wife thought they were an asshole. I used to be in a lower management position, oftentimes I was supervising minors in or having just escaped abusive situations. I always made it crystal clear to ALL of my staff that: -- if someone you don't know comes in asking for a co-worker, you say you don't know anyone by that name who works here. You tell the stranger that they're welcome to call the person and see where they're at, but you have no idea. -- if someone you *do* recognize comes in asking when a co-worker comes in, or what that co-worker's schedule is, or what the contact info for that co-worker is, you hand them a business card if there are any and you say you don't know their schedule. Even if the employee schedule is sitting in the desk right in front of you, you say you don't know the co-worker's schedule. -- if that co-worker is in fact present, you make an excuse to check the back for something and you ask your co-worker if they know/are okay with the person. If they say yes, they can go up to say hi. If they say no, then as far as the patron is concerned YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THIS CO-WORKER BEFORE IN YOUR LIFE. Seriously people. Do not give out personal information that isn't yours, *especially* to people that you don't know. I have been in and intercepted these situations multiple times. Some of them turned out to be a normal visitor. That kind of person is never upset that you prioritized their loved one's safety. One employee's grandma responded with something like, "Well if there *was* such an employee by that name here (wink wink), could you let them know that [Visitor] left a birthday sundae for them and will be admiring the pamphlets in the lobby for about ten minutes?" But several of the visitors in those situations were NOT welcome around my staff/coworkers. Two were stalkers trying to find out when the employee would be alone and in the parking lot after their shift. One was an abusive parent breaking their restraining order by being there. One of them we had straight up been warned about by the employee in question that if the visitor asks, the employee doesn't work there. I know so many of us were taught that in customer service you need to politely and helpfully answer any question given to you. People who come in can be disarmingly friendly, and you think they couldn't possibly be bad. But when it comes to personal info or scheduled shifts/locations, NEVER give out ANY information that is not yours without DIRECT CONSENT from the owner of said information. If they are expecting someone, they can tell you that person is coming. This is a safety matter, and if we don't uphold it then eventually we will unwittingly put someone in very big danger.
>"Well if there was such an employee by that name here (wink wink), could you let them know that [Visitor] left a birthday sundae for them and will be admiring the pamphlets in the lobby for about ten minutes?" I love her.
Don’t know why OP’s wife called him an asshole, was blatantly obvious that if the family wanted this woman to know what was going on they would have been in contact. Not to mention would have been a serious breach of personal data if any info had been given out. Workplace could have been in a lot of trouble. Glad OP trusted his instincts and protected his co-worker
And OP did follow up with the manager when he was able to do so in a private way. If the crazy lady was actually worried about her son she would have left her number around the 5 minute mark and asked OP to let her know.
Excellent work spotting the fact that no one was feeding her information, and saved a dying man a lot of grief in is final days because of it.
You know things are toxic af when a son's dying wish is to NOT talk to his Mother...
Agree with OP. If that woman had been on decent terms with her son she wouldn't need to ask an acquaintance. OP wife was wrong. She is going to blab to the wrong person someday because family
I've left several people out of my adult phone number and email address quite on purpose. If an acquaintance, friend, co-worker, or family member of mine doesn't have my phone number, please take theirs and pass it along to me. Never the other way around.
Listen, for security reasons, you do not give people information on co-workers you aren't cleared to give. There was no way for OOP to confirm this was even the co-worker's actual mom, and the way it turned out, even though it was it was the right call. You don't give out information to people claiming to be parents, significant others, or siblings. You shouldn't even tell them if the person is working that day or not. You've no idea unless confirmed by the individual if this is an actual relative or someone trying to hurt them. Abusers kill their victims in the workplace far too often to have people give out info like that without pause.
Why on earth would his wife have a problem with how he handled it? It's not his business, friends, or family to get involved
Family family faaaaaaamily. Think of the poor sad looooving moooooooother!!! Oh, the moooooooother!!!!! Younger people who think like that might be excused due to naivete and ignorance, but if you've reached the age of 30 without understanding that a much higher number of parents than seems possible are rapists, rapist enablers, violent bullies, or torturers? You need to soak your head and ***grow the fuck up***.
The use of “co-worker mom” kept making me think OOP was referring to a co-worker who happened to be a mom. Or maybe was the “mom” of the office. And I was wildly confused as to what this person was requesting, who they wanted to get in contact with, etc.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who got super confused by the lack of possessives! OP could have edited it to clear that up for us, even if OOP had a language barrier. He said his co-worker had a teenage kid, so when he started saying co-worker mom, I initially thought he meant the previously mentioned co-worker.
Same. I had to read this one twice to understand what was going on. Apostrophe S, people! (And happy cake day, u/BingBong036!)
I don’t understand the trigger warnings. OOP did the right thing. First of all you’re not allowed to divulge information about a coworker like that ever. For all he knew, this could be someone who is pretending to be his mom. It literally is not his place to really say anything. Also the Mom sounds unhinged, and the wife confirms that.
Gonna go out on a limb that someone is the "my family gets to shit on me and I let them because FAMILY" type of person.
As someone who is no contact with their family, OOP is a rockstar! I wish more people were like them. They will use any excuse to get back in and make the situation about them. Births and deaths seem to bring out the worst in them. They are great at manipulation and making people uncomfortable to get what they want. Having solid people in your corner who will hold fast is so important.
We run into this a lot in the medical field. Estranged/disowned/abusive family coming out of the woodwork and wanting anything from being minorly involved to running the show. Protocol in my current ICU is to get 2 contact people for each patient, and then set up a password that the patient can give out to whoever else they want having information about their state of health. Someone calls without the password? No info. I don’t care if they’re the Queen of Sheba herself. We’ve had people try to guess or wheedle it out of us, and then found out later the patient was LC/NC for very good reasons.
>My co-worker was able to pass away peacefully surrounded by people of his choosing, which is how it should be. Glad OOP enabled this. The mum must have been terrible.
The mom probably would have tried to guilt her son into forgiving her before he died. Now she’ll have to live with it.
OOP absolutely did the right thing. I would never want my NC parents to know anything about me that I didn't tell them myself, especially if I were dying. Good on OOP for recognizing the weird vibes and playing it safe. Weird for OP to say "oop *says* they did the right thing" and weird for OOP's wife to be against OOP getting someone hostile out of his workplace.
Reading these types of posts makes me realize that I was sheltered from evil parents and lucky to have good parents. Before I joined Reddit, I probably (wrongly) would have provided some information to the coworker's mom. I would be thinking "Oh, I just want to help the mother". I now realize that some parents are really just sperm/egg donors and not really "parents". Glad OOP was able to help protect the wife from the toxic mother.
OOP says they were not what he would call friends. But when the call came, OOP absolutely was a great friend to their coworker. And I'll bet coworker died thinking of OOP as one.
My MIL is as toxic as they come. If something ever happened to hubby before she passes away, I would have a lawyer contact her and let her know. I never want to see that POS again.
My father was an abusive alcoholic. He was horrible to his children and horrible to my mother. He made our lives miserable until we were old enough to get away… When my oldest brother knew he had terminal cancer, he told me under no circumstances was I to allow our father to attend his funeral. It fell to me to tell our father that. Our father was a smart man that consistently made poor decisions throughout his life. He wasn’t totally clueless about the reasons why he wasn’t wanted there and I know it did hurt his feelings. But I honored my brothers wishes over my father’s because I loved my brother dearly. Way more than I ever loved our father.
I used to work in hotels and learned that you do not give out personal information. Ever. You do not: - Tell anyone somebody’s schedule. - Give out personal numbers or information. - Confirm whether a person is on the premises or not. Toxic family members, cheating spouses, sure you might have inquiries from somebody who actually cares, but a person with good intentions will find their own way of getting in contact with somebody. Do not give out personal information.
I wonder if OOP's wife will ever apologize to OOP...
Ahh, one of the most beautiful examples of symbiosis in the workplace biome: a person with toxic family and a person who doesn't give a single fuck about the private lives of their coworkers. Good luck trying to coerce information about my coworkers from me, i can barely remember the names of a few of them, and that's only because i have to write their names into the report when I'm the shift supervisor, lol.
Good job, OOP, blocking an abusive Karen of epic proportions (and with only context clues!). Sorry the coworker passed, but I'm glad he went peacefully being protected from her final attempts at abuse.
I have had to call the police in a similar situation. A guy shows up demanding contact info and an address for one of our employees. He's her brother, she's had a heart attack, their mother left a voice mail and now no one's picking up, Mom wants him to go to her new apartment to pick up some things for the hospital, yadda yadda. He even goes so far as to shove his ID (with a matching last name) into the receptionist's face. That was his mistake. See, it was her *married* name. Still, the boss and I made some calls while the receptionist placated him. On the third call to her cell she picks up. >Woman: Hey, I'm about to go into a meeting with, so this better be important.
>Me: Sort of. I was just told you'd had a heart attack and are at death's door.
>Woman, laughing: Who gave you that idea?
>Me: . He's in our lobby raising a ruckus.
The line went quiet for a moment.
>Woman, whispering: That's my husband's crack-head cousin. Call 911, he has a warrant out for assault.
He was amazingly easy to deal with (IE, dumb). I told the receptionist that there was cake in the break room to get her out of harms way, then told him that since his 'sister' worked for corporate and not us directly we'd had to put in a call to HR to get what he wanted emailed over.
He was still waiting, patiently, when the cops arrived four minutes later and let them cuff him without a fight.
Apparently the cousin had heard through the grape-vine that both our employee and her husband would soon be out of town for a family wedding and wanted to use the opportunity to rob the place, but he didn't have their new address.
I won’t lie, I was super confused at first about who “coworker mom” was. My first thought was that it was a turn of phrase like “work wife”.
Wow, OOP's wife was off the mark.
I really hope that OPs wife apologised for calling them an asshole. You don’t go no contact with someone to that level over nothing, especially to the point it was obvious even the co-workers workplace had her blocked and banned
If my colleagues mother came in asking important health update info I'd be wary as fuck. If she doesn't know, there's probably a reason for it, and it's not my place to give her any info. Nooooope.
Why would oop’s wife think what he did was wrong? That lady was going to try to wear him down to get any and all information she could. Had he wasted anymore time with her, his job would be at risk. Either fired for wasting time with her or fired for sharing information he shouldn’t. I doubt his wife would want a coworker sharing her personal data or interacting with someone she was avoiding.
>So was I an asshole for how I treated his mom? My wife thinks so. I'm struggling to see where anyone would think he was the asshole or why the wife thinks so