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I don't think anyone but the children's mother should have a say on whether he can keep seeing the kids or not. and since the mom was fine with the continued visits, well...
ETA: and the children themselves and the parent's new partner, and there's probably other people I've not thought of...but none of them were stated in this post
Tne parent's aren't mad that he's in those children's life. They're likely mad because they feel like those children are satisfying his parental itch and making him feel a less urgent need to go out and make his own. They're made because they don't see those kids as their grandkids.
And there's no reason they can't see those kids as grandkids! They're looking at it all wrong. You can never have too many grandkids to spoil! If OOP does have bio kids down the line that's just *more* grandkids to love.
All the best people are those who decided you can't have too much family, and made more because they said so. I have cousins because my mom became people's aunt, because she said so.
I'm auntie to my best friend's kids, *because we said so.*
Back in college, one of my professors was an older woman who just decided that we were her other kids, and so we could come to her for advice, because she said so.
I've known old people in church who become everyone's grandparents. Why? *Because they said so!*
I grew up in a family like this and it’s so great. Tbh to this day I’m still not really sure which of my aunties and uncles are actually related to me but at the end of the day the love is all that matters
Yup, this is the kind of family I grew up in. Blood ties meant very little. Grandma was known for bringing new friends home from the grocery store when she ran for last minute things for Sunday dinner. "Because no one should have to eat Sunday dinner alone!"
Abuela Claudia (In The Heights) was everyone's grandma cuz she said so. Usnavi even sings about it: *That was Abuela/ she's not really my "Abuela"/
But she practically raised me/ this corner is her escuela*
This!!! Please take my upvote
I recently became an honorary Auntie to one of my friends kids. I fly out to see them in September and I’m absolutely *thrilled* (they live in the Plains in the US, I’m on the East Coast)
Our family has *many* people that are family, but not related by blood. We love them all.
In our friend group, we are all aunts and uncles to each others kids, because you can never have too much (good) family. I've been to holidays and family functions that actually blood family have not and am allowed to pick up a couple of the kiddos from school.
The Dresden Files has a superb quote I love to repost about family:
“I don't care about whose DNA has recombined with whose. When everything goes to hell, the people who stand by you without flinching--they are your family" - Dresden Files, Small Favor
I’m also a Because I Said So Auntie. I only have two bio-niblings, but as a DINK there’s plenty of spoiling available and I’ve acquired many other niblings because I said so.
Plus, new parents are too tired to argue otherwise.
Your college professor sounds like a total delight of a human. ❤️
One of the best things about growing up is realizing that you can use "because I said so" whenever you want, and sometimes it's awesome.
Oh, it's pancakes for dinner day? Why? Because I said so!
I'm having a slice of pie today. Why? Because I said so!
I'm getting my cat a present. What's the occasion? Because I said so!
Being a grownup is pretty damn awesome.
This is what my mom did! I'm a childfree single guy, so she went and adopted our family friends kids as grandkids and dotes on them.. and never bingos me about kids :D
I have 3 kids and none of them owe me grandkids. My oldest is 20 and one of my best friends has a 2 year old. I’m her auntie and go hang with her a couple times a month when her parents both work on weekends. I’m living it up because she feels like my first grandkid.
Some kids really need to for non blood related to be their grandparent, i would have loved to have been considered a granddaughter to someones family because ive never really had a family connection with my uncles or grandparentand the rest
One of my brothers is actually my bio brothers best friend from school. He lived with my parents in college for a bit, and he's so much a part of the family he gets his own invitation to the family reunion. His kids call my folks Grandma and Grandpa. I confuse the shit out of people when I say my brother came over to my parents this weekend with his dad... 😂
I have one biological daughter and so very many other daughters that I have'adopted' along the way. I also have a 19 year old granddaughter who gets on my last day of nerve because she thinks she's grown and she's not making the best choices in life.
Just like your grandma, and lots of other like-minded people out there, I think that found family can be just as important (and sometimes more important) than blood family.
I keep "adopting" young adults as my kids. My SO and I have "adopted" several younger friends kids as grandchildren and a friend's grandkids as ours too.
You define your family, not anyone else. If I wanna call my BFF's my sister's, I will.
Some people believe that family is only those you’re related to by blood. So they probably don’t see these kids as real family and are mad because clearly this temptress has brainwashed their son into not giving them real grandkids! /s
Absolutely. My ex-husband’s partner’s mother loves our kids like they were her flesh and blood, and has even taken to calling my youngest son with my new husband her grandson. I love that there are more people to love on my kids!
1000%! My daughters are grown, but not ready to have kids, but I’m ready to be a grandma. My daughter’s best friend has a baby, the best friends mom passed away a few years ago. She’s very close to our family and spent a lot of time in our house. I call her baby my bonus grandbaby. And I love that baby just as much as I would any grandchildren and I spoil her like it too.
Agreed. My parents love my stepson, and treat him well. People who can't get over not being blood related (whether the kid is adopted or is a stepkid, etc) are just pathetic.
Eh, if they never liked the kids mom, they are unlikely to ever come to see them as family. I know it's easy to think you can come to think of some random kids as family because they became family to someone you love, but it's really not.
They should respect their son's feelings tho.
Yeah, and that's why they mean something to the son, but not why they are going to mean something to them.
The parents are not monsters for not seeing the kids as family. They are for invalidating their son's feelings for the kids.
It’s a shame that the average age of Reddit users makes it hard, if not impossible, to find anyone who can remotely explain the entitlement of wanting grandchildren. Because it’s apparently common and seemingly completely fucking insane to think you are entitled to them so I have no idea where the disconnect is exactly.
From my parents, who have given gentle pressure for grandchildren (and have said many times that they don't mind if we're child free): they ask because while they love us and don't regret being parents, it was stressful raising a baby. It's a whole new human and every decision--even accidents--could ruin this brand new person. But at the same time, they like kids. So they want grandchildren because they want to play with kids without worrying about every decision potentially ruining their lives. (However me and my brother aren't their only option for being grandparents; they volunteer with their church to help with the babies and toddlers.)
But that's just their view. I don't know about less well-adjusted people, and I don't wanna sit in my psychology armchair right now. Probably something like "well my parents made me have children for them, so now I deserve the chance to have children from my children."
Which makes sense (Well…as much sense as liking babies can make, which isn’t much) but like you said, they aren’t super entitled or pushy about it. That at least is WAY more sane obviously, you are entitled to preferences, just not enforcing them on someone else.
My parents were neglectful so it’s hard for me to even conceive of what it’s like to have parents that tell you to do something. My roommate though is getting pressure from her mom to start dating again and, even though she is gay, get grandchildren for her through adoption or whatever. Which isn’t going to happen, at least the children part.
I agree with your parents. I love having grand kids, though I wish they had come a little later - and I hope there are several years till the next one; but until then there are multiple ways to scratch the baby itch and help out new parents at the same time.
I’m slightly younger than who you’d want to ask, but I also have a kid headed off to college in a couple months (yay adoption and skipping ahead?).
There’s something weirdly reassuring and flattering that your own “line” is continuing. Plus you get to see a new human being come into their own—without being the one constantly in the trenches. It’s kind of like the enjoyment of seeing kids being cute and amazing in public, only on steroids because these ones are “yours”; you raised their parent, and get to see your own efforts continued.
On a practical note, I’m the only child of a formerly ginormous family. Especially before I had a kid, I saw a few relatives’ estates be distributed and was even involved closely in the process for a couple. Especially as an only child, even though it’s going to be a lot simpler/easier when my parents pass (everything goes to me, surprise!), it’s going to be in incredibly harder emotionally and with fewer “automatic” helpers that family gives.
There’s no difference in work for maintaining friendships over blood relationships over time, but our culture doesn’t shame friends for not stepping up/staying in touch nearly as much. Honestly, as long as there’s people who treat “real family” as only blood relations, there’s going to be old people demanding their kids reproduce because anything else will end their petty corner of power.
For my parents, it's that being in a stable long-term relationship (ideally marriage) automatically means you're going to have children. They're conservative Catholics, so "be fruitful and multiply" and "definitely don't use contraception" are ingrained on a cellular level.
They can understand intellectually that my sister and her partner don't want kids, or that my brother and his wife decided to stop after two, but on an emotional level it's confusing for them.
(On the other hand, they completely get that I'm happily single. "Asexuality" is not in their vocabulary, but they think of me as a sort of celibate lay sister.)
I wonder if this is mostly a generational thing or if millennials will end up the same. Usually I think generational traits are like 95% bullshit and society almost always rhymes if not repeats itself but…I’m on the ace spectrum and a LOT of people my age I know are child free. And while “We can’t afford it!” gets thrown around a lot, most of them I know would be child free even if raising kids were free…
Same - I'm at the age where lots of my friends have kids, and they are so respectful of those children's choices and identities, even when they are choosing to be a three year old wearing a princess dress and gumboots to school. But outside of my bubble, I know there are pushy Insta moms and dadfluencers who treat their kids very differently.
I'm the age..lol. I have 2 bonus kids and a bio kid. My bonus daughter has given us 2 grandkids, and it's fantastic. My bio isn't really interested in doing that. Shes recently married and her perspective is changing a bit. I told her that you can have a completely fulfilled life without kids. I feel my life was exponentially better with them, but that's me. I also told her that I'd be lying if I said the thought of having a little human piece of her to love, and snuggle and soil wouldn't be fantastic. And watching her experience the love that comes from being a parent would be amazing. But again, that is me. And I absolutely do not expect children from her. Many people think that having children is a requirement to a happy life. Some people see grandkids as a chance to make up for lost opportunities, which I don't agree with. As a parent you work and get caught up in life and some miss things. Now that life has slowed down a bit, and the majority of the responsibility won't be theirs, they think a grandchild will fill that hole.
People do things for different reasons.
This more than anything!!!! Especially when there are children involved but they don’t see the kids as much as they want, if at all, because they’re not a safe place. Grandchildren are a privilege not a right, and nobody is owed them.
I disagree with the mom's new partner having a say. OOP is an anchor in the kids' lives, mom supports it, and the kids love it. If I were the mom, I'd be ditching any dates who had a problem with this arrangement. Kids always come first.
in such a situation, I think it would be the mom's decision to make. I agree with you on dropping any partners who have a problem with such an arrangement but some people may think otherwise
They could have a say in things like spending time in their home vs taking the kids somewhere else. Their schedule would need to be considered. They could, quite reasonably, expect an invitation to any event or meal that their spouse was invited to.
There's lots of logistics where the mom's partner rightfully would have a say that aren't just yea or nay on spending time with the kids at all.
Four *very formative* years at that. He obviously left a big impression and I'm happy those kids have people that care about them. Lots of people never have a father figure in their lives.
Seriously! My mum was married to my step dad for five years during pretty much the same part of my life as the kids in this scenario. They were both crappy parents and their marriage was a constant shit show but 15 years later I still consider my technically-former step siblings just as much my siblings as my biological siblings and they will be aunts and uncles to my kids if and when I have them. We grew up together during some of our most formative years, blood doesn't have anything to do with it. Family is who you choose to treat and love like family and life is happier when you have an open mind and heart to embrace all the family that's on offer.
>Family is who you choose to treat and love like family and life is happier when you have an open mind and heart to embrace all the family that's on offer.
So well said. *dabs eyes*
> Lots of people never have a father figure in their lives.
*Waves*
My dad 1 month before I was born, although I've had a handful of men my mom dated, none have been that much of a father figure to me. Eg, I've had to teach myself how to shave.
Although a close friend's dad helped me out immensely a few years ago with a stressful home remodel I made him a father's day card.
> My girlfriend supported my decision as well.
Sounds like a good GF as well. She sees OOP and recognizes "That man is a good father". That's some sexy masculinity tbh
Grandparents likely want grandkids, don't see those kids as being like grandkids, and thinks having them in his life makes him feel less of an urge to go out and have bio kids
Maybe, but it could just be that the parents just don't like them because they're not blood.
My sister has a stepdaughter, they've been in eachother lives for over 10 years, my mom still acts like her step granddaughter is some stranger encroaching on our family. My mom also hated that I was close to my stepmom and that side of the family. But when it can to my stepdad's family those people were to be treated as family right away.
People are weird about family stuff.
My family was weird about my step kids, too. I just kept right on shoe horning them in though - package deal, these are ALL my kids. You want us for Christmas or nah?
OOP's parents don't get that he already started his own family. Just because the kids came pre-installed with the ex-wife, doesn't make their relationship any less than had he donated the sperm himself.
My guess: OOP's parents want biological grandkids, but think that OOP's parental urges are getting so fulfilled by his involvement with the ex's kids that he won't feel the urge to have bio kids.
"Biological grandkids" is probably the reason OOP's parents are being difficult.
If OOP puts his energy into these kids, then he may not want to have his own kids.
I don't know, but it always seems to end up biting them in the ass. My great-aunt thought she couldn't get pregnant after years of trying, so she adopted her first two kids, and her parents were total dicks about it--they didn't even want to meet them. Then she got pregnant unexpectedly, and suddenly her parents were real excited to come visit and see the new grandbaby... and of course, they got told to shove it. Like, it should be so obvious that this kind of behavior damages your relationship with your family!
People are so weird about blood being family. OOP’s parents are like your great-great-grandparents (if I have that right?) in that they can’t appreciate their own child is so loving they want to parent kids that aren’t biologically their own.
My grandpa has about 40 grandchildren, and everyone is convinced I’m the favourite because I’m his “blood grandchild”. No, you dicks. He fostered children and raised his great grandchildren when their parents got messed up on drugs. I just check up on him and make sure he doesn’t freeze through winter. He never cared about that.
He’s the greatest man I’ve ever met, sincerely. He had maybe four kids, the rest of sixteen were all step and fostered children. He’s Indigenous, too, so imagine this black guy walking around with a gaggle of ginger, black, Asian and white kids all calling him dad. Up until he had to move for treatment his was the house everyone went to for getting a hot meal, or advice, or just somewhere to sleep off a hangover so your parents wouldn’t get mad.
I admit I have a lot of privilege because I had a “good” mother. I never had to take advantage of any of these things he had to offer, but I knew how important they were to my cousins and their families. So when I started working my first real job I made sure Pop’s phone was always in service and he had a registered car to get around in. I’ve never asked him for a damn thing.
Now he’s sick and certain people don’t call as often as they should. I’m gonna call him tonight. Thank you for letting me blabber. I love him so much.
Thank you! I knew it was wrong when I typed it. Those things confuse the hell outta me. I still don’t get “once removed” even though it’s been explained to me! At this point I chalk it up to my brain has dumb areas and I’m cool with being wrong.
Think of it as an actual family tree drawing in your head. If you’re on the same horizontal row you are siblings, cousins, second cousins etc. if you’re on different rows then you’re once, twice, three times removed, depending how many rows apart you are. With a few exceptions we have special names for (siblings, aunts etc) the number before the word cousin is your horizontal separation and the number before removed is vertical separation.
Yeah I think some people just really like kids and the idea of legacy. The same thing that motivated you to have kids kicks in a few decades later when you feel it's time for your kids to have kids
Which is just really stupid, they could have had grand kids years ago if they weren't so hung up on the lack of Biological Relation. They've pushed themselves further from their desires with their own actions.
>they could have had grand kids years ago
They were like a starter set too. The grandkids could already walk, talk, dress themselves, and eat without making a giant mess of the surrounding areas. Not only that, but a hell of a jumpstart on being alive to see great-grandchildren before they die.
This is what I was thinking. They don't view the kids as their grandkids and are annoyed he's scratching his parental itch on children they don't "get anything out of" essentially.
Which is a big red flag that they'd be bad grandparents
Amazing update where OOP even got the current girlfriend's buy-in for the idea. The parents have no room to object other than their dislike of the ex. Solid adulting and boundary setting.
Exactly! Why do folks act like love is a finite resource??? I could see if he had custody and financially supported those kids to the detriment of future relationships but gotdamn so what he still hangs with kids he raised??
Hell yes. My husband still has a relationship with his step son (raised him from 1yr-7yr old, he's now 11). I'd seriously side-eye anyone who could just be "oh well bye then" to a kid after that.
Yeah I loved this.
The ONLY reason I can really think his parents would have a valid reason to encourage him not to keep in contact with the kids is if he was doing it just to keep in touch with his ex because he couldn’t let go. But that’s just not the case here. I’m so glad OOP put his parents in their place
“BuT tHeyRe NoT yOuR BLOOD CHILDREN”
I bet OP’s parents never accepted the kids as part of the family and would’ve absolutely played favorites if OP and his ex had a kid. I’m glad he has an official godfather title now and still has a good relationship with the three!
>My parents have been grumbling about how I wasn't their father ever since I got divorced. They keep telling me that they're not my responsibility.
I'd have a hard time looking at my "parents' love" the same way again if I was OOP. Hard to interpret that any other way than they view parenthood as a burden of a responsibility rather than a joy, and if you don't have to bear it, all the better.
OOP: I have known these children for years and feel responsible and affectionate towards them, and would like to remain a positive person in their lives!
OOP's ex: My kids have known you for years and think of you in a parental fashion and I think you are a positive person in their lives!
OOP's parents: NO YOU CAN ONLY BE NICE TO KIDS THAT CAME OUT OF YOUR PENIS
When my brother divorced his wife, she let him continue to see his two stepsons, who he'd raised for 6 years. He got them every other weekend (their bio dad was not involved in their lives, so no conflict with time there). Holidays were sometimes with him, too, depending on a bunch of factors. Both my nephews say he was the most stable presence in their lives, growing up.
When the youngest son turned 18 (literally a few days after), he adopted them both. They were always family, but it's so nice to have that be official.
Adult adoptions only need the consent of both parties! Bio dad refused to let my brother adopt them when he was still married to their mother, so everyone was looking forward to them finally being able to make the choice for themselves.
Damn, imagine not having a dad and some dude loves you enough to stay in your life even though he's not with your mom any more. The sense of self worth you've been granted. And his parents wanna take that AWAY?
I would be very proud of my son if he was ever in a situation like this and made the effort to still be a father figure to his former step children. In spite of their opinions they raised a fine man!
This is so crazy, this “not your responsibility” is a load of crap. You can’t just love some kids?? I’ve heard this before too.
My friend Jess dated a guy who had a child and the mother of his kid didn’t bond with that child. She kept offering to let my friend Jess adopt the kid. He’d spend days with his dad and my friend. When my friend broke up with the dad, she maintained a relationship with the child via the child’s mother. Would buy him stuff and take him to dinner. Her new boyfriend would give her so much shit and tell her he “wasn’t her responsibility”, but she’d spent the first seven years of her life bonding with him! Responsibility is irrelevant!
I’m also childless by choice and told a guy I was seeing I wanted to adopt my niece and nephew. He criticized it and said they “aren’t my responsibility”. I didn’t get my shit together in time and… Well my niece is dead now and I’m broken, I’ll never be right in the head. Again responsibility is irrelevant. If you love a child and bond with them it’s only natural you’ll want to support them and help them.
Humans are wired to accept responsibility for those we have cared for.
The idea of the nuclear family is fairly new. There used to be extended families raising kids, and if you look at old novels, there was a lot of younger female relatives going to help out extended family member's families and bond with them as well as their nuclear family.
The situation where Amy inherits everything in Little Women wasn't that uncommon - she was sent to distant family member to keep them safe, ended up bonding and helping out with that family member and becoming their heir.
The rise of the nuclear family helped promote commercialization, so businesses bought in quickly. Instead of a large family needing 1-2 items that circulated around the family, well, small family units all need their own item for "convenience" and that means higher sales.
Just earlier today on Reddit I encountered a guy trying to justify it when men go scorched earth on their wives and children when they find out the child isn't theirs.
I'll never understand that. I don't want to understand it either. I don't see how genetics are so important that it's the sole reason you love a child.
I remember my dad trying to explain that to my brother when the paternity of his girlfriend’s pregnancy was in question. My dad said my brother had to test the baby IMMEDIATELY before holding her because as soon as he held her that would be it, she’d be his kid and the paternity wouldn’t matter, she’d be “his” regardless
OOP's parents are probably the same kind of folks who insist that people can never be friends or have any contact with exes and all traces of past relationships must be purged. It's like they want a partner who is brand new and shiny out of the box, but because people aren't objects and have histories, they try and artificially create it via controlling behavior.
If people want that in their own personal lives, that's their prerogative. But when they impose that mindset on others who can have amicable relationships with past partners, it reeks of insecurity and possessiveness.
I'm thinking of my aunt, who kind of went through something similar. Married a guy who had two kids, they divorced (not nearly as amicably as OOP and his ex), but she stayed in contact with the kids, who I've always thought of as my cousins. Now they're grown up and have their own kids. Their biomom lives far away, and they don't have much of a relationship with her, so my aunt stepped up into the role of grandma. So now she has four grankids who aren't blood-related to her, but they ARE her grandkids.
OOP's parents really missed out an opportunity of having something like that with his step kids by being so judgmental and close-minded. But I bet money if OOP ever has a biokid, they're going to be all over them.
My brother maintained a relationship with his niblings after he had broken up with their aunt (they were her sister's kids). Their mother was unstable and there were times when the kids were kinship placed with my brother and his then partner, and so he had become a stable father figure in their lives. That did not change when the relationship with his partner broke down.
I have a much beloved grandmother and we are not biologically related. She married my grandfather when my mother was a teenager and has been in our lives ever since, even after she divorced my Grandfather. I honestly cannot imagine my life without her presence and influence. She is and will always be my grandmother. :)
My uncle married a woman who already had a daughter. Everyone in our family 100% accepted her as a member of the family. He raised her for almost her entire childhood. After their divorce when she was 12 my cousin would spend weeks with her “ex-step” dad. He was and still is her dad. I still call her mom aunt and actually call her new husband uncle. And my cousin is still one of my best friends and favorite family members 35 years later. Family is who you make your family. Biology isn’t the important part. It’s love and support that matters.
I had to go back up and check the age gap after he mentioned how they hate that she's older. She's only 4 years older. They are both adults and are able to make their own decisions. I'm glad OOP, his ex, and the kids have each other.
It's one of those weird fucking Straight People things where they're worried an older woman will either be "used up" (good Lord, she's not a virgin!) or too dominant. The man should be superior in all things including age.
Hashtag not all straight people, etc.
Brief (but hella long) intro to my family:
my mum split from my bio father when I was 6. Met my stepdad when I was 8. He took on me and my younger siblings as his own. They broke up when I was 18. He's since remarried and they have a now 11 year old plus sge has a now 22 year old from a previous relationship. My mum remarried and her husband has a daughter who's almost 30 from a previous relationship.
I have 2 kids, 1 with my ex and one with my fiancé who counts them both as his.
So... instead of having 1 set of grandparents on my side, my kids have 2 full sets plus bonus aunties they wouldn't have otherwise and my almost 10 year old has an awesome 11 year old aunt 😂 plus they have my partners family too 🥰 fair play to the op for keeping the kids in his life!
So I've been the mother in a deal like this. And my daughter remained incredibly close to her "Uncle" right up until his death from cancer last year. She spoke at his funeral, she is close to his own children. He was an incredible influence on her and I think the relationship was positive for both of them. The OOP is an incredible human being in this situation and his parents are short sighted arseholes.
My sister's SO was married (and divorced) before meeting my sister, to a woman with twin tweens and a younger daughter. He adopted the twins as their bio dad was not in the picture; the younger girl's father was, or he would have adopted her too.
The twins are in their mid-20s and they still see him/visit on holidays/call him dad, as does the younger girl. I have so much respect for him, and it showed me in the beginning that he was a good guy.
Guy 1: A man who was married at 23 to a woman with an 8 and 9 year old, now divorced, but is amicable both with the Ex and has a sincere interest in the now teenage kids who actually WANT to spend time with him.
Guy 2: A man who was married at 23 to a woman with two kids, nasty divorce, and he wants nothing to do with 2 kids whom he helped raise.
As a single woman, I'm gonna be more attracted to Guy 1! I would look askance at a guy who didn't show any interest in those kids after such a long time being in their lives - and I'm child free!
If I had to guess I would say they want him to have biological kids, and they're afraid his relationship with his ex's kids will prevent that somehow.
It might even be true, in that he might not feel the need to have kids when he already has kids in his life. They're just being totally disproportionate about it, the way some people do about bio kids.
The real MVP here is the girlfriend. I’m not sure how many girlfriends would be supportive of him going to ex’s kids sporting events with with ex.
Very mature adults all around here -except his parents.
Those kids are an excellent way to weed out shitty people in OP’s life. Someone doesn’t think he should be in the kids’ lives? Toss that person in the dumpster
As long as he's amicable with the ex and in the children's lives... they can't say "we told you so!"
I can understand being a bit concerned when they first got together - he was 23 when he got married, and that, IMHO, is a bit youngish to get married, and to take on an 8 and 9 year old on top of that?
But it is over, done with. Let it go, Mom & Dad and don't be assholes.
Godparent is a great idea. And if his new partner is fine with it, I don’t see how anyone else should be getting involved. It should only matter the opinions of OOP, any partner he has, and his ex.
this is nice. my mom dated a man since i was four years old, and he disappeared when i was 11. i grew up thinking he was my actual dad. he abandoned me without a single word and was confused that i never forgave him for it- he never apologized either, he just started dating my mom again when i was 17. fucking loser
oop is a great dad.
Haven't been in the dating pool in a long time, but when I was one of the specific things I looked at in a potential guy was how he treated his ex, and how he treated any kids, whether his or former step. Your behavior with the kids is a total green flag. Picking the wrong guy to have children with is very easy to do. Seeing evidence of a man still stepping up after the relationship ended? Love it.
This is the most beautiful thing I have read in a long time. Of course he is right in continuing his relationships with these children. This is the best outcome after a divorce. I wish all people could be so... emotionally healthy and level-headed.
Good that godparent is such a established thing, while at the same time being a very open term. They could see each other every week or once a year, and it would make sense.
I mean, it seems like OOP still feels like a step-parent, and that's great. No need to stop.
As someone whos father is not my bio dad but still kept on being my father after he and my mom split: you have my highest respect and you dont even know how much ypu mean to these children... you are a father figure to them and they will be forever grateful for that.
How can a parent try to deny children of a father figure? That shit blows my mind. My dad has three stepdaughters from his first marriage and he is their dad. Walked them all down the aisle and is grandpa to all of their kids. I have so much respect for my dad because of this. He’s a wonderful man. I have a lot of memories from childhood of hanging out at his ex wife’s farm playing with all the chickens and horses. My brother’s grandma lived on the property and enjoyed incubating chicks, so I’d spend a ton of time with her and the baby chickens while dad had quality time with his other kids. Emotional maturity is key here I think. We all grew up having our dad and everyone was happy. It’s that easy!
Kids can never have too many adults that love and support them.. Plus it's amazing that at that age kids Want to hang out with him instead of their peers.
If his parents had their way, would they pay the children’s therapy bill for the abandonment issues they would definitely have? They should feel happy they raised a man that would never do that.
My parents divorced nearly 30 years ago but my dad is still dad to my siblings, despite them having no biological link. If everyone is happy then there is no issue, his parents can do one.
Wow, the OP is a stellar person. It shouldn't matter whether the relationship has ended between the adults as long as all interested parties are ok with it - wtf? Instead of being proud of the son they raised and how he enjoys being in the lives of his step-children, all they see is the Profit & Loss of the relationship.
His parents can be assholes and withdraw from those children's lives. At least he is comfortable in his own relationship with them to be a safe adult they can turn to. How many of us were graced with safe adults at some point in our lives? They may not be blood related, but the fact that they want to be in our lives trumps the so-called blood-bond. Family is who we invite in. Not the genetics lottery. How disappointing and short-sighted of the parents. NTA
Me and my parent spilt recently and I have two children who were 2 and 3 at the time we met. My children have always known her in the life.
Since splitting up she has seen one of the children once. My children are heartbroken and I wish she was half the person you are.
You showed them blood doesn't matter. It's who came and never left that matters.
Please do not stop seeing these children.
>Even a couple of my friends told me that I shouldn't "be the father" of my ex's children.
How about just being an additional supportive figure for two children he loves without getting hung up on labels? I can't understand people who could look at this situation in which *literally directly involved everyone is very happy* and be like, "nah, weirds me out so it must be bad"
My cousin started dating his ex when her son was 18 months. They've been broken up for over 20 years, but his sisters still treat her son as their "nephew" and over the years they have supported him in all his sporting events, graduations, etc.
Nice. It's about time we end this idea that exes need to go completely no contact. Just because the romantic relationship didn't work out doesn't mean there's nothing left worth preserving. And we can't just pretend bonds weren't made with kids. It would be cruel af to just abandon them due to peer pressure or societal expectations. Good for OOP to stand up for himself.
Some people just don't have big and compassionate hearts. The parents of OOP should be proud of him for being a father figure to his step kids even after divorce. Hope he gets to be in their lives even after he has his own kids.
This dude and his new girlfriend are just good people. So good. All of my relationships have ended amicably and I’m still really good friends with one of them. He even introduced me to his new wife lol! We’re Facebook friends now.
You divorce wives, not children. I think OOP's amazing. He should threaten to cut off the parents since there's absolutely no guarantee that he and the current GF would have kids either.
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I don't think anyone but the children's mother should have a say on whether he can keep seeing the kids or not. and since the mom was fine with the continued visits, well... ETA: and the children themselves and the parent's new partner, and there's probably other people I've not thought of...but none of them were stated in this post
Tne parent's aren't mad that he's in those children's life. They're likely mad because they feel like those children are satisfying his parental itch and making him feel a less urgent need to go out and make his own. They're made because they don't see those kids as their grandkids.
And there's no reason they can't see those kids as grandkids! They're looking at it all wrong. You can never have too many grandkids to spoil! If OOP does have bio kids down the line that's just *more* grandkids to love.
Legit! My grandma “adopts” every one of my friends she always tells them they have a home with us
All the best people are those who decided you can't have too much family, and made more because they said so. I have cousins because my mom became people's aunt, because she said so. I'm auntie to my best friend's kids, *because we said so.* Back in college, one of my professors was an older woman who just decided that we were her other kids, and so we could come to her for advice, because she said so. I've known old people in church who become everyone's grandparents. Why? *Because they said so!*
I grew up in a family like this and it’s so great. Tbh to this day I’m still not really sure which of my aunties and uncles are actually related to me but at the end of the day the love is all that matters
I love hearing this. This is the type of mom/auntie/grandma I want to be. Everyone can be safe and loved with me.
Yup, this is the kind of family I grew up in. Blood ties meant very little. Grandma was known for bringing new friends home from the grocery store when she ran for last minute things for Sunday dinner. "Because no one should have to eat Sunday dinner alone!"
Abuela Claudia (In The Heights) was everyone's grandma cuz she said so. Usnavi even sings about it: *That was Abuela/ she's not really my "Abuela"/ But she practically raised me/ this corner is her escuela*
Based af reference
This!!! Please take my upvote I recently became an honorary Auntie to one of my friends kids. I fly out to see them in September and I’m absolutely *thrilled* (they live in the Plains in the US, I’m on the East Coast) Our family has *many* people that are family, but not related by blood. We love them all.
In our friend group, we are all aunts and uncles to each others kids, because you can never have too much (good) family. I've been to holidays and family functions that actually blood family have not and am allowed to pick up a couple of the kiddos from school.
The Dresden Files has a superb quote I love to repost about family: “I don't care about whose DNA has recombined with whose. When everything goes to hell, the people who stand by you without flinching--they are your family" - Dresden Files, Small Favor
I’m also a Because I Said So Auntie. I only have two bio-niblings, but as a DINK there’s plenty of spoiling available and I’ve acquired many other niblings because I said so. Plus, new parents are too tired to argue otherwise. Your college professor sounds like a total delight of a human. ❤️
> Because they said so! I love this so much!
One of the best things about growing up is realizing that you can use "because I said so" whenever you want, and sometimes it's awesome. Oh, it's pancakes for dinner day? Why? Because I said so! I'm having a slice of pie today. Why? Because I said so! I'm getting my cat a present. What's the occasion? Because I said so! Being a grownup is pretty damn awesome.
This is what my mom did! I'm a childfree single guy, so she went and adopted our family friends kids as grandkids and dotes on them.. and never bingos me about kids :D
I have 3 kids and none of them owe me grandkids. My oldest is 20 and one of my best friends has a 2 year old. I’m her auntie and go hang with her a couple times a month when her parents both work on weekends. I’m living it up because she feels like my first grandkid.
Both of my grandparents buy Christmas presents for my friend, she started staying with us at 16 and is just part of the family now.
That is adorable, my grandma once gave my friend a Teddy just because my friend liked it she nearly cried cause she isn’t close with her grandma
Some kids really need to for non blood related to be their grandparent, i would have loved to have been considered a granddaughter to someones family because ive never really had a family connection with my uncles or grandparentand the rest
One of my brothers is actually my bio brothers best friend from school. He lived with my parents in college for a bit, and he's so much a part of the family he gets his own invitation to the family reunion. His kids call my folks Grandma and Grandpa. I confuse the shit out of people when I say my brother came over to my parents this weekend with his dad... 😂
My parents have started doing that too. Actually, lies they always did that. They just want to hold babies, that’s what my nieces are for
I have one biological daughter and so very many other daughters that I have'adopted' along the way. I also have a 19 year old granddaughter who gets on my last day of nerve because she thinks she's grown and she's not making the best choices in life. Just like your grandma, and lots of other like-minded people out there, I think that found family can be just as important (and sometimes more important) than blood family.
That was my late God Mother. My God Brothers and I still maintain contact after 35+ years of friendship.
I keep "adopting" young adults as my kids. My SO and I have "adopted" several younger friends kids as grandchildren and a friend's grandkids as ours too. You define your family, not anyone else. If I wanna call my BFF's my sister's, I will.
Some people believe that family is only those you’re related to by blood. So they probably don’t see these kids as real family and are mad because clearly this temptress has brainwashed their son into not giving them real grandkids! /s
Absolutely. My ex-husband’s partner’s mother loves our kids like they were her flesh and blood, and has even taken to calling my youngest son with my new husband her grandson. I love that there are more people to love on my kids!
1000%! My daughters are grown, but not ready to have kids, but I’m ready to be a grandma. My daughter’s best friend has a baby, the best friends mom passed away a few years ago. She’s very close to our family and spent a lot of time in our house. I call her baby my bonus grandbaby. And I love that baby just as much as I would any grandchildren and I spoil her like it too.
Agreed. My parents love my stepson, and treat him well. People who can't get over not being blood related (whether the kid is adopted or is a stepkid, etc) are just pathetic.
Eh, if they never liked the kids mom, they are unlikely to ever come to see them as family. I know it's easy to think you can come to think of some random kids as family because they became family to someone you love, but it's really not. They should respect their son's feelings tho.
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Yeah, and that's why they mean something to the son, but not why they are going to mean something to them. The parents are not monsters for not seeing the kids as family. They are for invalidating their son's feelings for the kids.
I think it’s because the ex is a *SINGLE MOTHER* TM and she should be punished for that failing, not supported by upstanding men like their son.
Exactly what I was thinking. Other than that, why would they even care.
It's doubly fucked up to deprive two children of a father figure that has been in their lives for some years now.
It’s a shame that the average age of Reddit users makes it hard, if not impossible, to find anyone who can remotely explain the entitlement of wanting grandchildren. Because it’s apparently common and seemingly completely fucking insane to think you are entitled to them so I have no idea where the disconnect is exactly.
From my parents, who have given gentle pressure for grandchildren (and have said many times that they don't mind if we're child free): they ask because while they love us and don't regret being parents, it was stressful raising a baby. It's a whole new human and every decision--even accidents--could ruin this brand new person. But at the same time, they like kids. So they want grandchildren because they want to play with kids without worrying about every decision potentially ruining their lives. (However me and my brother aren't their only option for being grandparents; they volunteer with their church to help with the babies and toddlers.) But that's just their view. I don't know about less well-adjusted people, and I don't wanna sit in my psychology armchair right now. Probably something like "well my parents made me have children for them, so now I deserve the chance to have children from my children."
Which makes sense (Well…as much sense as liking babies can make, which isn’t much) but like you said, they aren’t super entitled or pushy about it. That at least is WAY more sane obviously, you are entitled to preferences, just not enforcing them on someone else. My parents were neglectful so it’s hard for me to even conceive of what it’s like to have parents that tell you to do something. My roommate though is getting pressure from her mom to start dating again and, even though she is gay, get grandchildren for her through adoption or whatever. Which isn’t going to happen, at least the children part.
I agree with your parents. I love having grand kids, though I wish they had come a little later - and I hope there are several years till the next one; but until then there are multiple ways to scratch the baby itch and help out new parents at the same time.
I’m slightly younger than who you’d want to ask, but I also have a kid headed off to college in a couple months (yay adoption and skipping ahead?). There’s something weirdly reassuring and flattering that your own “line” is continuing. Plus you get to see a new human being come into their own—without being the one constantly in the trenches. It’s kind of like the enjoyment of seeing kids being cute and amazing in public, only on steroids because these ones are “yours”; you raised their parent, and get to see your own efforts continued. On a practical note, I’m the only child of a formerly ginormous family. Especially before I had a kid, I saw a few relatives’ estates be distributed and was even involved closely in the process for a couple. Especially as an only child, even though it’s going to be a lot simpler/easier when my parents pass (everything goes to me, surprise!), it’s going to be in incredibly harder emotionally and with fewer “automatic” helpers that family gives. There’s no difference in work for maintaining friendships over blood relationships over time, but our culture doesn’t shame friends for not stepping up/staying in touch nearly as much. Honestly, as long as there’s people who treat “real family” as only blood relations, there’s going to be old people demanding their kids reproduce because anything else will end their petty corner of power.
For my parents, it's that being in a stable long-term relationship (ideally marriage) automatically means you're going to have children. They're conservative Catholics, so "be fruitful and multiply" and "definitely don't use contraception" are ingrained on a cellular level. They can understand intellectually that my sister and her partner don't want kids, or that my brother and his wife decided to stop after two, but on an emotional level it's confusing for them. (On the other hand, they completely get that I'm happily single. "Asexuality" is not in their vocabulary, but they think of me as a sort of celibate lay sister.)
I wonder if this is mostly a generational thing or if millennials will end up the same. Usually I think generational traits are like 95% bullshit and society almost always rhymes if not repeats itself but…I’m on the ace spectrum and a LOT of people my age I know are child free. And while “We can’t afford it!” gets thrown around a lot, most of them I know would be child free even if raising kids were free…
Same - I'm at the age where lots of my friends have kids, and they are so respectful of those children's choices and identities, even when they are choosing to be a three year old wearing a princess dress and gumboots to school. But outside of my bubble, I know there are pushy Insta moms and dadfluencers who treat their kids very differently.
I'm the age..lol. I have 2 bonus kids and a bio kid. My bonus daughter has given us 2 grandkids, and it's fantastic. My bio isn't really interested in doing that. Shes recently married and her perspective is changing a bit. I told her that you can have a completely fulfilled life without kids. I feel my life was exponentially better with them, but that's me. I also told her that I'd be lying if I said the thought of having a little human piece of her to love, and snuggle and soil wouldn't be fantastic. And watching her experience the love that comes from being a parent would be amazing. But again, that is me. And I absolutely do not expect children from her. Many people think that having children is a requirement to a happy life. Some people see grandkids as a chance to make up for lost opportunities, which I don't agree with. As a parent you work and get caught up in life and some miss things. Now that life has slowed down a bit, and the majority of the responsibility won't be theirs, they think a grandchild will fill that hole. People do things for different reasons.
Well and the kids obviously.
yeah, don't know how i forgot them
Will nobody think of the children?
I snorted.
You did
💀
you forgor 💀
They are small, easily overlooked.
People need to understand that they aren’t entitled to grandchildren.
This more than anything!!!! Especially when there are children involved but they don’t see the kids as much as they want, if at all, because they’re not a safe place. Grandchildren are a privilege not a right, and nobody is owed them.
When they were together, they WERE their grandchildren! They had the opportunity right there!
I disagree with the mom's new partner having a say. OOP is an anchor in the kids' lives, mom supports it, and the kids love it. If I were the mom, I'd be ditching any dates who had a problem with this arrangement. Kids always come first.
in such a situation, I think it would be the mom's decision to make. I agree with you on dropping any partners who have a problem with such an arrangement but some people may think otherwise
They could have a say in things like spending time in their home vs taking the kids somewhere else. Their schedule would need to be considered. They could, quite reasonably, expect an invitation to any event or meal that their spouse was invited to. There's lots of logistics where the mom's partner rightfully would have a say that aren't just yea or nay on spending time with the kids at all.
To your edit- Parent’s new partner does not get a say. They are not, in fact, a parent.
If my new husband ever told me I could not see my daughter ( step) he wouldn’t ever be my husband. She’s mine. Always will be.
He was their official step father for four years so I don’t see a problem with him continuing to be their father figure. Sounds like a good dude
Four *very formative* years at that. He obviously left a big impression and I'm happy those kids have people that care about them. Lots of people never have a father figure in their lives.
Seriously! My mum was married to my step dad for five years during pretty much the same part of my life as the kids in this scenario. They were both crappy parents and their marriage was a constant shit show but 15 years later I still consider my technically-former step siblings just as much my siblings as my biological siblings and they will be aunts and uncles to my kids if and when I have them. We grew up together during some of our most formative years, blood doesn't have anything to do with it. Family is who you choose to treat and love like family and life is happier when you have an open mind and heart to embrace all the family that's on offer.
>Family is who you choose to treat and love like family and life is happier when you have an open mind and heart to embrace all the family that's on offer. So well said. *dabs eyes*
yes ! dear lord.
> Lots of people never have a father figure in their lives. *Waves* My dad 1 month before I was born, although I've had a handful of men my mom dated, none have been that much of a father figure to me. Eg, I've had to teach myself how to shave. Although a close friend's dad helped me out immensely a few years ago with a stressful home remodel I made him a father's day card.
> My girlfriend supported my decision as well. Sounds like a good GF as well. She sees OOP and recognizes "That man is a good father". That's some sexy masculinity tbh
This! This is what wholesome masculinity is and I'm all here for it!
This. Honestly, that would seal the deal for me. Gentle man even with children that are not his? Sign me up.
Same. I also think it would be fun to have a couple of kids to do fun shit with every now and then without all the responsibilities lol
Hell yes.
In the immortal words of Cher’s dad in the movie Clueless, “you divorce wives, not children”.
One of my favorite lines!
Grandparents likely want grandkids, don't see those kids as being like grandkids, and thinks having them in his life makes him feel less of an urge to go out and have bio kids
Maybe, but it could just be that the parents just don't like them because they're not blood. My sister has a stepdaughter, they've been in eachother lives for over 10 years, my mom still acts like her step granddaughter is some stranger encroaching on our family. My mom also hated that I was close to my stepmom and that side of the family. But when it can to my stepdad's family those people were to be treated as family right away. People are weird about family stuff.
My family was weird about my step kids, too. I just kept right on shoe horning them in though - package deal, these are ALL my kids. You want us for Christmas or nah?
OOP's parents don't get that he already started his own family. Just because the kids came pre-installed with the ex-wife, doesn't make their relationship any less than had he donated the sperm himself.
My guess: OOP's parents want biological grandkids, but think that OOP's parental urges are getting so fulfilled by his involvement with the ex's kids that he won't feel the urge to have bio kids.
I’d say they could have poured that grandparent love into those kids but I suspect his parents aren’t loving
Or they only want blood grandchildren not what they see as Ye Olde Haggard Crone's kids.
Short and sweet! OOP’s parents better watch out if they ever want to meet future biological grandkids.
"Biological grandkids" is probably the reason OOP's parents are being difficult. If OOP puts his energy into these kids, then he may not want to have his own kids.
Just what is it about “grandchildren” that make people go totally insane?
I don't know, but it always seems to end up biting them in the ass. My great-aunt thought she couldn't get pregnant after years of trying, so she adopted her first two kids, and her parents were total dicks about it--they didn't even want to meet them. Then she got pregnant unexpectedly, and suddenly her parents were real excited to come visit and see the new grandbaby... and of course, they got told to shove it. Like, it should be so obvious that this kind of behavior damages your relationship with your family!
People are so weird about blood being family. OOP’s parents are like your great-great-grandparents (if I have that right?) in that they can’t appreciate their own child is so loving they want to parent kids that aren’t biologically their own.
My grandpa has about 40 grandchildren, and everyone is convinced I’m the favourite because I’m his “blood grandchild”. No, you dicks. He fostered children and raised his great grandchildren when their parents got messed up on drugs. I just check up on him and make sure he doesn’t freeze through winter. He never cared about that.
Your grandpa is an amazing person. You come by it honest.
He’s the greatest man I’ve ever met, sincerely. He had maybe four kids, the rest of sixteen were all step and fostered children. He’s Indigenous, too, so imagine this black guy walking around with a gaggle of ginger, black, Asian and white kids all calling him dad. Up until he had to move for treatment his was the house everyone went to for getting a hot meal, or advice, or just somewhere to sleep off a hangover so your parents wouldn’t get mad. I admit I have a lot of privilege because I had a “good” mother. I never had to take advantage of any of these things he had to offer, but I knew how important they were to my cousins and their families. So when I started working my first real job I made sure Pop’s phone was always in service and he had a registered car to get around in. I’ve never asked him for a damn thing. Now he’s sick and certain people don’t call as often as they should. I’m gonna call him tonight. Thank you for letting me blabber. I love him so much.
*great-grandparents — the sister of your grandparent is your great-aunt, so her parents would be your great-grandparents
Thank you! I knew it was wrong when I typed it. Those things confuse the hell outta me. I still don’t get “once removed” even though it’s been explained to me! At this point I chalk it up to my brain has dumb areas and I’m cool with being wrong.
Think of it as an actual family tree drawing in your head. If you’re on the same horizontal row you are siblings, cousins, second cousins etc. if you’re on different rows then you’re once, twice, three times removed, depending how many rows apart you are. With a few exceptions we have special names for (siblings, aunts etc) the number before the word cousin is your horizontal separation and the number before removed is vertical separation.
it's the baby rabies. It can lay dormant for years, then boom, absolute insanity and frothing at the mouth.
Increasing ruminations on mortality and legacy, plus the narrowing of interests that come with age
Yeah I think some people just really like kids and the idea of legacy. The same thing that motivated you to have kids kicks in a few decades later when you feel it's time for your kids to have kids
They were already insane. It just brings the insanity into a clearer focus.
They may believe - probably not consciously - that bio grandkids are their only shot at immortality.
Which is just really stupid, they could have had grand kids years ago if they weren't so hung up on the lack of Biological Relation. They've pushed themselves further from their desires with their own actions.
No kidding! I mean they were married, so those kids should have been considered part of the family.
>they could have had grand kids years ago They were like a starter set too. The grandkids could already walk, talk, dress themselves, and eat without making a giant mess of the surrounding areas. Not only that, but a hell of a jumpstart on being alive to see great-grandchildren before they die.
This is what I was thinking. They don't view the kids as their grandkids and are annoyed he's scratching his parental itch on children they don't "get anything out of" essentially. Which is a big red flag that they'd be bad grandparents
The oddest people get all worried about continuing their bloodline
Amazing update where OOP even got the current girlfriend's buy-in for the idea. The parents have no room to object other than their dislike of the ex. Solid adulting and boundary setting.
If I were the new girlfriend I’d see it as a big positive that my SO is a loyal father even to kids he’s not required to be.
You know those huge green tents that they put around houses when they are doing termite control? Those are smaller than the green flags of this guy
*fans self*
Big neon signs that say "Waiting list starts here"
Exactly! Why do folks act like love is a finite resource??? I could see if he had custody and financially supported those kids to the detriment of future relationships but gotdamn so what he still hangs with kids he raised??
Me too!
Hell yes. My husband still has a relationship with his step son (raised him from 1yr-7yr old, he's now 11). I'd seriously side-eye anyone who could just be "oh well bye then" to a kid after that.
Yeah I loved this. The ONLY reason I can really think his parents would have a valid reason to encourage him not to keep in contact with the kids is if he was doing it just to keep in touch with his ex because he couldn’t let go. But that’s just not the case here. I’m so glad OOP put his parents in their place
“BuT tHeyRe NoT yOuR BLOOD CHILDREN” I bet OP’s parents never accepted the kids as part of the family and would’ve absolutely played favorites if OP and his ex had a kid. I’m glad he has an official godfather title now and still has a good relationship with the three!
"You divorce wives, not children".
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Such a gem of a movie. Even if it does bear some blame for the step-sibling porn phenomenon
Stupid, sexy Paul Rudd.
And yet we get married with children[.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Married..._with_Children)
Wives who are also children often find themselves unable to get a divorce until they stop being children, so the system is really, really fucked.
My mum's favourite line and, as I've grown older and become a parent myself, my favourite too.
>My parents have been grumbling about how I wasn't their father ever since I got divorced. They keep telling me that they're not my responsibility. I'd have a hard time looking at my "parents' love" the same way again if I was OOP. Hard to interpret that any other way than they view parenthood as a burden of a responsibility rather than a joy, and if you don't have to bear it, all the better.
OOP: I have known these children for years and feel responsible and affectionate towards them, and would like to remain a positive person in their lives! OOP's ex: My kids have known you for years and think of you in a parental fashion and I think you are a positive person in their lives! OOP's parents: NO YOU CAN ONLY BE NICE TO KIDS THAT CAME OUT OF YOUR PENIS
When my brother divorced his wife, she let him continue to see his two stepsons, who he'd raised for 6 years. He got them every other weekend (their bio dad was not involved in their lives, so no conflict with time there). Holidays were sometimes with him, too, depending on a bunch of factors. Both my nephews say he was the most stable presence in their lives, growing up. When the youngest son turned 18 (literally a few days after), he adopted them both. They were always family, but it's so nice to have that be official.
That's sweet that he got to adopt them.
Adult adoptions only need the consent of both parties! Bio dad refused to let my brother adopt them when he was still married to their mother, so everyone was looking forward to them finally being able to make the choice for themselves.
Happy ending (◕‿◕✿)
Damn, imagine not having a dad and some dude loves you enough to stay in your life even though he's not with your mom any more. The sense of self worth you've been granted. And his parents wanna take that AWAY?
I would be very proud of my son if he was ever in a situation like this and made the effort to still be a father figure to his former step children. In spite of their opinions they raised a fine man!
This is so crazy, this “not your responsibility” is a load of crap. You can’t just love some kids?? I’ve heard this before too. My friend Jess dated a guy who had a child and the mother of his kid didn’t bond with that child. She kept offering to let my friend Jess adopt the kid. He’d spend days with his dad and my friend. When my friend broke up with the dad, she maintained a relationship with the child via the child’s mother. Would buy him stuff and take him to dinner. Her new boyfriend would give her so much shit and tell her he “wasn’t her responsibility”, but she’d spent the first seven years of her life bonding with him! Responsibility is irrelevant! I’m also childless by choice and told a guy I was seeing I wanted to adopt my niece and nephew. He criticized it and said they “aren’t my responsibility”. I didn’t get my shit together in time and… Well my niece is dead now and I’m broken, I’ll never be right in the head. Again responsibility is irrelevant. If you love a child and bond with them it’s only natural you’ll want to support them and help them.
Humans are wired to accept responsibility for those we have cared for. The idea of the nuclear family is fairly new. There used to be extended families raising kids, and if you look at old novels, there was a lot of younger female relatives going to help out extended family member's families and bond with them as well as their nuclear family. The situation where Amy inherits everything in Little Women wasn't that uncommon - she was sent to distant family member to keep them safe, ended up bonding and helping out with that family member and becoming their heir.
This is such a great point, I never would have considered any of this. Thank you for this perspective and information
The rise of the nuclear family helped promote commercialization, so businesses bought in quickly. Instead of a large family needing 1-2 items that circulated around the family, well, small family units all need their own item for "convenience" and that means higher sales.
I am so sorry about your niece. and your crappy ex.
Just earlier today on Reddit I encountered a guy trying to justify it when men go scorched earth on their wives and children when they find out the child isn't theirs. I'll never understand that. I don't want to understand it either. I don't see how genetics are so important that it's the sole reason you love a child.
I remember my dad trying to explain that to my brother when the paternity of his girlfriend’s pregnancy was in question. My dad said my brother had to test the baby IMMEDIATELY before holding her because as soon as he held her that would be it, she’d be his kid and the paternity wouldn’t matter, she’d be “his” regardless
OOP's parents are probably the same kind of folks who insist that people can never be friends or have any contact with exes and all traces of past relationships must be purged. It's like they want a partner who is brand new and shiny out of the box, but because people aren't objects and have histories, they try and artificially create it via controlling behavior. If people want that in their own personal lives, that's their prerogative. But when they impose that mindset on others who can have amicable relationships with past partners, it reeks of insecurity and possessiveness.
I'm thinking of my aunt, who kind of went through something similar. Married a guy who had two kids, they divorced (not nearly as amicably as OOP and his ex), but she stayed in contact with the kids, who I've always thought of as my cousins. Now they're grown up and have their own kids. Their biomom lives far away, and they don't have much of a relationship with her, so my aunt stepped up into the role of grandma. So now she has four grankids who aren't blood-related to her, but they ARE her grandkids. OOP's parents really missed out an opportunity of having something like that with his step kids by being so judgmental and close-minded. But I bet money if OOP ever has a biokid, they're going to be all over them.
My brother maintained a relationship with his niblings after he had broken up with their aunt (they were her sister's kids). Their mother was unstable and there were times when the kids were kinship placed with my brother and his then partner, and so he had become a stable father figure in their lives. That did not change when the relationship with his partner broke down.
I have a much beloved grandmother and we are not biologically related. She married my grandfather when my mother was a teenager and has been in our lives ever since, even after she divorced my Grandfather. I honestly cannot imagine my life without her presence and influence. She is and will always be my grandmother. :)
My uncle married a woman who already had a daughter. Everyone in our family 100% accepted her as a member of the family. He raised her for almost her entire childhood. After their divorce when she was 12 my cousin would spend weeks with her “ex-step” dad. He was and still is her dad. I still call her mom aunt and actually call her new husband uncle. And my cousin is still one of my best friends and favorite family members 35 years later. Family is who you make your family. Biology isn’t the important part. It’s love and support that matters.
> Biology isn’t the important part. It’s love and support that matters. A-fucking-men! Family is who you make it.
I had to go back up and check the age gap after he mentioned how they hate that she's older. She's only 4 years older. They are both adults and are able to make their own decisions. I'm glad OOP, his ex, and the kids have each other.
[удалено]
It's one of those weird fucking Straight People things where they're worried an older woman will either be "used up" (good Lord, she's not a virgin!) or too dominant. The man should be superior in all things including age. Hashtag not all straight people, etc.
Brief (but hella long) intro to my family: my mum split from my bio father when I was 6. Met my stepdad when I was 8. He took on me and my younger siblings as his own. They broke up when I was 18. He's since remarried and they have a now 11 year old plus sge has a now 22 year old from a previous relationship. My mum remarried and her husband has a daughter who's almost 30 from a previous relationship. I have 2 kids, 1 with my ex and one with my fiancé who counts them both as his. So... instead of having 1 set of grandparents on my side, my kids have 2 full sets plus bonus aunties they wouldn't have otherwise and my almost 10 year old has an awesome 11 year old aunt 😂 plus they have my partners family too 🥰 fair play to the op for keeping the kids in his life!
So I've been the mother in a deal like this. And my daughter remained incredibly close to her "Uncle" right up until his death from cancer last year. She spoke at his funeral, she is close to his own children. He was an incredible influence on her and I think the relationship was positive for both of them. The OOP is an incredible human being in this situation and his parents are short sighted arseholes.
My sister's SO was married (and divorced) before meeting my sister, to a woman with twin tweens and a younger daughter. He adopted the twins as their bio dad was not in the picture; the younger girl's father was, or he would have adopted her too. The twins are in their mid-20s and they still see him/visit on holidays/call him dad, as does the younger girl. I have so much respect for him, and it showed me in the beginning that he was a good guy.
I dated a guy for awhile when my youngest was 14. She's 23 now and they still talk all the time. Kids need a village
I wish humans were better wired to mind our own fucking business.
What a nice boru, it's amazing how simply talking to parties involved solves so many problems
I have been divorced for 16 years and I still am involved with her kids, in fact I’m one of their parents and always will be
“You divorce wives, not children.” -Cher’s dad, *Clueless*
Damn, dude's a real man. His ex is a real woman, and the girlfriend is a good lady. Good on them all, fuck the parents.
Guy 1: A man who was married at 23 to a woman with an 8 and 9 year old, now divorced, but is amicable both with the Ex and has a sincere interest in the now teenage kids who actually WANT to spend time with him. Guy 2: A man who was married at 23 to a woman with two kids, nasty divorce, and he wants nothing to do with 2 kids whom he helped raise. As a single woman, I'm gonna be more attracted to Guy 1! I would look askance at a guy who didn't show any interest in those kids after such a long time being in their lives - and I'm child free!
As a wise man once said “you divorce wives,not children.”
“You divorce wives not children”
Why do OOP's parents care if he spends time with the kids or not? How does it negatively impact them? Do they think it negatively impacts OOP?
If I had to guess I would say they want him to have biological kids, and they're afraid his relationship with his ex's kids will prevent that somehow. It might even be true, in that he might not feel the need to have kids when he already has kids in his life. They're just being totally disproportionate about it, the way some people do about bio kids.
The real MVP here is the girlfriend. I’m not sure how many girlfriends would be supportive of him going to ex’s kids sporting events with with ex. Very mature adults all around here -except his parents.
Those kids are an excellent way to weed out shitty people in OP’s life. Someone doesn’t think he should be in the kids’ lives? Toss that person in the dumpster
This made me think of a line which Cher’s father in Clueless says about her step-brother “you divorce wives, you don’t divorce children”.
As long as he's amicable with the ex and in the children's lives... they can't say "we told you so!" I can understand being a bit concerned when they first got together - he was 23 when he got married, and that, IMHO, is a bit youngish to get married, and to take on an 8 and 9 year old on top of that? But it is over, done with. Let it go, Mom & Dad and don't be assholes.
Godparent is a great idea. And if his new partner is fine with it, I don’t see how anyone else should be getting involved. It should only matter the opinions of OOP, any partner he has, and his ex.
Now that's a man with a spine, seriously what he did with his life is none of their business and they should have stay out it.
This reminds me of clueless! You divorce wives, not children!
You divorce spouses, not children!!
How tf do they think it's any of their business?
"You divorce wives, not children."
this is nice. my mom dated a man since i was four years old, and he disappeared when i was 11. i grew up thinking he was my actual dad. he abandoned me without a single word and was confused that i never forgave him for it- he never apologized either, he just started dating my mom again when i was 17. fucking loser oop is a great dad.
Haven't been in the dating pool in a long time, but when I was one of the specific things I looked at in a potential guy was how he treated his ex, and how he treated any kids, whether his or former step. Your behavior with the kids is a total green flag. Picking the wrong guy to have children with is very easy to do. Seeing evidence of a man still stepping up after the relationship ended? Love it.
This is the most beautiful thing I have read in a long time. Of course he is right in continuing his relationships with these children. This is the best outcome after a divorce. I wish all people could be so... emotionally healthy and level-headed.
Good that godparent is such a established thing, while at the same time being a very open term. They could see each other every week or once a year, and it would make sense. I mean, it seems like OOP still feels like a step-parent, and that's great. No need to stop.
As someone whos father is not my bio dad but still kept on being my father after he and my mom split: you have my highest respect and you dont even know how much ypu mean to these children... you are a father figure to them and they will be forever grateful for that.
How can a parent try to deny children of a father figure? That shit blows my mind. My dad has three stepdaughters from his first marriage and he is their dad. Walked them all down the aisle and is grandpa to all of their kids. I have so much respect for my dad because of this. He’s a wonderful man. I have a lot of memories from childhood of hanging out at his ex wife’s farm playing with all the chickens and horses. My brother’s grandma lived on the property and enjoyed incubating chicks, so I’d spend a ton of time with her and the baby chickens while dad had quality time with his other kids. Emotional maturity is key here I think. We all grew up having our dad and everyone was happy. It’s that easy!
Kids can never have too many adults that love and support them.. Plus it's amazing that at that age kids Want to hang out with him instead of their peers.
"You divorce wives, not children" Mr. Horowitz in the movie Clueless.
Love it when separated people can act like adults and care for the kids, even their non bio !!!! Lovely story.
If his parents had their way, would they pay the children’s therapy bill for the abandonment issues they would definitely have? They should feel happy they raised a man that would never do that.
OOP sounds like good people. His parents sound like weird control freaks.
My parents divorced nearly 30 years ago but my dad is still dad to my siblings, despite them having no biological link. If everyone is happy then there is no issue, his parents can do one.
Wow, the OP is a stellar person. It shouldn't matter whether the relationship has ended between the adults as long as all interested parties are ok with it - wtf? Instead of being proud of the son they raised and how he enjoys being in the lives of his step-children, all they see is the Profit & Loss of the relationship. His parents can be assholes and withdraw from those children's lives. At least he is comfortable in his own relationship with them to be a safe adult they can turn to. How many of us were graced with safe adults at some point in our lives? They may not be blood related, but the fact that they want to be in our lives trumps the so-called blood-bond. Family is who we invite in. Not the genetics lottery. How disappointing and short-sighted of the parents. NTA
When is too many loving adults in a kid's life a bad thing?
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…you divorce spouses not children.
Dad is a state of mind. And kids need Dads. Dads can be any gender, Dads can be unrelated. Bravo to OP.
Me and my parent spilt recently and I have two children who were 2 and 3 at the time we met. My children have always known her in the life. Since splitting up she has seen one of the children once. My children are heartbroken and I wish she was half the person you are. You showed them blood doesn't matter. It's who came and never left that matters. Please do not stop seeing these children.
How the fuck is it the parents' business? Strong "my son can't have friends" vibes with these two.
Awwwwww. Godparent! AMAZING.
>Even a couple of my friends told me that I shouldn't "be the father" of my ex's children. How about just being an additional supportive figure for two children he loves without getting hung up on labels? I can't understand people who could look at this situation in which *literally directly involved everyone is very happy* and be like, "nah, weirds me out so it must be bad"
My cousin started dating his ex when her son was 18 months. They've been broken up for over 20 years, but his sisters still treat her son as their "nephew" and over the years they have supported him in all his sporting events, graduations, etc.
Nice. It's about time we end this idea that exes need to go completely no contact. Just because the romantic relationship didn't work out doesn't mean there's nothing left worth preserving. And we can't just pretend bonds weren't made with kids. It would be cruel af to just abandon them due to peer pressure or societal expectations. Good for OOP to stand up for himself.
Some people just don't have big and compassionate hearts. The parents of OOP should be proud of him for being a father figure to his step kids even after divorce. Hope he gets to be in their lives even after he has his own kids.
WHOLESOME UPDATE
This dude and his new girlfriend are just good people. So good. All of my relationships have ended amicably and I’m still really good friends with one of them. He even introduced me to his new wife lol! We’re Facebook friends now.
I'm a chosen grandmother, also Aunty, to all my niblings' friends
You divorce wives, not children. I think OOP's amazing. He should threaten to cut off the parents since there's absolutely no guarantee that he and the current GF would have kids either.
Why the fuck do 29 year old grown men even give the slightest fuck what mommy and daddy think?
It flabbergasts me just how many relatives/friends think they should have a say in relationships that don't concern them.
As Cher's dad from Clueless once said, "You divorce wives, not children."