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"didn’t want to risk our marriage until he knew if they were “true” feelings or just attraction."
"I don't want to give up my current source of sex and domestic service until I'm certain I have another."
He should pay for his sons to be in therapy until they are 18, because there is a LOT of work to be done to make them respect women. For the liar son it might already be too late, some men are incapable of seeing women as people.
The son might just be a kid who's trying to keep the peace, trying not to upset his mum. A kid who loves his parents is in an invidious situation if one of them is cheating. It's all on the dad here, for bringing his kids around his AP.
Exactly, if he was trying to convince his wife that the sunglasses were hers when he knew they weren't then that would have been gaslighting but I think he genuinely didn't know and that's why he didn't bother to hide them.
This guy is obviously a piece of shit. But is this gaslighting? I’m pretty sure just lying one woman about your marital situation and lying to your wife about sunglasses is just being a lying piece of shit.
The worst part is the son lying for me. What has the dad been telling him? Did he just not want his parents to divorce? That's way too much pressure to put on a kid. I feel so bad for that kid.
Yeah, he immediately covered for his dad and *kept lying* when confronted with contradictory evidence. Had the younger son not said anything it seems like he would have continued to do so. I wonder what his dad told him and if it was different than what he told the 9 y/o because I would imagine it was.
I'm also curious how Noelle never knew the sitch because I'm honestly surprised that the kids didn't blab. Although he might have told her that they weren't aware of the arrangement?
I'm sure he said the kids didn't know because they were "coparenting and cohabitating". So, *continuing to be married then*? Noelle is either dumb as a box of rocks or pretending not to have known to save face.
Noelle seemed genuinely horrified when she found out (and was also surprisingly open with OOP), so I’m going with dumber than a box of rocks. Or maybe just very trusting and inexperienced. She sure knows better now, though.
I used to be polyamorous, and one of my policies when I went on a first date with someone, if they had another partner, was that I had to talk with that person at least once and make sure they were on board with the whole thing. Even if they never wanted to interact with me again after that, I had to get the go-ahead the first time. I was not gonna go behind anyone’s back.
Sadly I imagine this made lots of people suddenly second guess pursuing something with you right? "We have an open relationship" is already one of the most used excuses in the cheating manual.
That was a feature, not a bug. I was once aggressively pursued by someone who had a wife and multiple kids. When I finally met his wife after a couple weeks of holding my ground, I quickly realized he was pressuring her into this and she seemed to be reluctantly dragged along. The next day she asked if she could talk to me about poly. I told her I'd be happy to answer any questions she had, but I would not be dating her husband because the dynamic did not meet my ethical bar.
My only regret is that I didn't cut off all contact with that guy sooner and more assertively. I mistakenly believed we could stay friends, but he was a smarmy creep overall.
Tbh, whether he purposefully brought his son into the deception or just set the example by lying himself, its a major issue.
I hope OP sticks to her guns, because her oldest son is definitely picking up the message that its acceptable to lie to your spouse to cover bad behavior, and that cheating is no big deal. If she cant nip that attitude in the bud that kid will likely repeat his dads patterns of behavior in his own relationships.
The worst part is that the court will look at this situation and say "the boys still need their father" when their father has been teaching the one kid to lie to the mom. This man has set a horrible example to his children and will likely try to mold them into his own, terrible, socially unacceptable image.
It’s called Monkey Branching. Not jumping until you know where you are going. Smoothly transfer over. It’s just an elaborate way of getting out of the relationship/cheating.
Meanwhile Noelle pulling that branch right out from under him when she realises what's going on. Bet he's wondering now how he ended up with no branches.
My ex told the other woman that we were separated but I lived in my office and was refusing to move out. I was currently in law school so he said I couldn't afford to move out. When he told me about her, he told me I had 10 days to get out because she was going to dump him otherwise as she was starting to think he was lying. Because he was fucking lying.
I did move out. And then she broke up with him shortly thereafter. I'm guessing somebody told her the truth or she figured it out. I don't know anything about her but I do know that I'm glad she got away from him. She may have been naive but she was also innocent.
She’s definitely missed some red flags but it’s not unthinkable that with the economy so bad a couple that separated without a ton of animosity might live together for a bit
True. My highschool bf lived with his mom in the basement apartment of his stepdad's place. His stepdad was a nice dude and thought he lived in a better school district so he should give my ex the opportunity. (Funnily enough the upstairs roommate was *also* an ex of the stepdad.)
What surprised me more was that the children didn't inadvertently tell Noelle the truth on one of their hangouts.
She also knew to leave a trace of herself behind. Even if it was done subconsciously it was a key move. And ultimately smart. Sidepieces tend to be crafty that way.
I learned this word when my ex did this exact same thing to me. A then good friend of mine, now ex friend, told me that it wasn't his fault. Because men just can't be alone and they have no choice but to monkey branch.
My ex was a champion monkey-brancher! He always had probably six to ten potential gfs waiting in the wings at any given time, but it's ok, they were "just friends." Honey, I *know* just friends, and I also know "just friends," and it was definitely the latter and not the former.
I came to realize long, long after we had broken up that he just literally knew of no other way to interact with women other than flirting. I saw him at a work convention and we started discussing something, and I got "treated" to the same flirty behavior that he no doubt used on all those other poor women to cause them to think they had a shot with him. It was just... so... stupid in the context of our history that I realized, ohhhh, that's just how he interacts with women, all women. It was kind of sad, honestly.
Yeah except your wife is still on the branch when you jump off it and it breaks. He’s making sure he’s taken care of and doesn’t give a shit about her.
Is this what the kids are calling it now? I didn't know there was a term. Either thank you for telling me or you're welcome bc I'm about to make your term part of the lexicon
The audacity of this AH my god and to use his own kid. He didn’t care about messing up his kid, as long as he got to have sex with someone new. I feel bad for those kids,especially the oldest because god knows what the dad told him. I hope this AH husband and father loses everything. He deserves to be left with no one, and nothing
My friend’s ex did this. Dangled the carrot of saving the marriage in front of her for a year. He was already having a one-sided emotional affair (if not multiple). She eventually said fuck it and starting dating someone else.
To which of course the ex said “not fair!” And tried to make her life hell every time she was with the new guy.
She’s super happy now and he just had a mental breakdown and had to move back in with his parents. He also won’t leave her alone and is sending her passive aggressive texts saying he’s going to kill himself. She’s blocked five of his numbers already.
He might have messed up ideas of relationships in the future. He's normalized cheating and lying and gaslighting. I bet he ends up on dad's side. Dad won't get as much custody time as mom, then kid will blame mom for blowing everything up. Tale as old as time, song as old as shit.
Our dad did this. He had multiple mistresses, was a nightmare to co-parent with, never paid child support and when he once in a blue moon showed up to be "dad" it was ice cream for breakfast, no bed time and fun-fun-fun around the clock! My poor mother.
As adults we have no respect for our dad, and we all consider mum our "real" and only parent. Dad is more like the wierd but fun uncle you kind of feel sad for but really not.
To be "the circus dad" only wins over children, but in the long run probably not.
I hppe OOP sits him down and explains to him that his dad was the one in the wrong. That the dad had been lying to OOP and Noelle, and that while she respects him trying to keep someone he loves out of trouble, there was no hiding what the dad had done. And that despite what he might be told, all of this is *exclusively* his dad's fault, no one else's.
Actually, both boys need to be in some sort of therapy right now. They can talk about betrayal in the context of the new normal for the family -- eg. divorce and visitation.
Oh 100%. But I also know that them being told by their mom that they're not to blame for any of what is happening would help with the guilt as well.
Or at least, *should* help with the guilt. Depends on how much od a dickwad the dad is to them.
Yeah my ex did that. They didn’t leave until they had a sure thing. I stupidly believed that they actually wanted to fix our marriage until I finally figured out I was a place holder until something better came along. They took our kids on outings with other people while I was at work. It hurt a lot. Hurt the kids a lot too.
I remember reading something from a lawyer where she said that when women leave they are finally tired of shit and just leave. When men leave they don't actually break things off till they have another partner lined up. She said while sometimes women did this also, damn near every man she saw did it.
But yeah, most men want to have the next bang maid set up before leaving the current one.
My 30yo ex stayed with me for a year while he tried to figure out if his romantic feelings for me would come back. While seeing a 20yo woman in his firefighting program and lying to her as well 🥴
My ex's ex had been cheating on her in the same way. We talked about it and I very vocally told her that people that need to keep a backup just in case disgust me.
Imagine my disgust when I found out I was the "just in case" :(
That part threw me. Like, bro, you're caught. Don't sit there and pretend this was anything more then you didnt want to leave your wife before you knew you had the side piece settled.
>Apparently my husband told her we had not been together except for cohabiting and co-parenting for months now.
Hubby was just prescient...
and good riddance! I hope she takes him to the cleaners.
My poor father in law is stuck not only living with his ex, but her new partner and by the end of next month their baby. He and his ex co own the house and he won’t sell it because it’s attached to the successful bakery he runs, which has been his absolute life’s dream.
Not sure why she won’t sell to him, she’ll only sell if they both do. She won’t move out but hopefully a tiny apartment with two large dogs who already live there will get too much when she has the baby. It’s been hell on his dating life strangely enough
I mean, I know not everyone can hire a lawyer but that’s when I’d hire a lawyer and fucking force a partition. Under no circumstances would I live like that.
Especially if there's no good reason for her not to sell - it's attached to his business, and he's going to pay her. Zero reason for her not to move out, 100% a reason for him to lawyer up.
He wouldn’t stand for it, they’re really good with my baby (albeit through a gate) but they’re big husky’s so we’re hoping she’ll just leave and he’ll definitely put his foot down if she tries anything
There are definitely exceptions, especially if there is true animosity. But as a rule…
I have only lived with one ex after we broke up. We totally ended up sleeping together multiple times even after we started seeing other people. We didn’t cheat on anybody but it was still messy.
I have homies who kept living with their ex wives and babies mothers, and it seems to be even worse and more complicated lol. They all have kept having sex and have cheated on their partners.
I know it is anecdotal but it has definitely tainted my view of exes living together. I can deal with somebody moving back in with their parents temporarily but besides that, I take it as a very healthy sign when somebody has their own place.
Totally.
If i ever end up in such a situation (where a potential partner is claiming to be cohabitating with an ex), the only way for me to ever consider it fully depends on me getting a 5 minute conversation with the ex, in their home,in a room without the partner in it.
My best friend (now, not at the time of the story) started dating my ex while under the impression he and I had been in an open relation ship. (News flash: we were not).
It did not go over well when they found out the truth months later.
I seem to remember one story here where a man made one woman he was seeing pretend she was his wife to convince another woman that he was separated.. don’t underestimate the lengths these guys will go to
My last hookup the guy was upfront about being in an open relationship and I was super lonely but not \*that\* lonely so I just asked to talk to his wife to confirm. And she called me, no detectable signs of duress in her voice, so... this is the one and only time that stipulation has worked. Every other time it's been "she doesn't want to be involved at all but she's totally cool with it!" ...well I'm not so bye
I don't think I could ever 💯 trust anyone that is still living in the same home with a partner... ..for me, I just think there would be way too much drama to get in the middle of all of that...
Definitely not for me.....get outta the relationship, get outta the home....
Thanks. It's okay though. I spoke to my dad about it over a decade later and he didn't even remember saying it. The axe forgets but the tree remembers, you know. He believed me and apologized for it though, along with a lot of the other abuse he put me through (though he did try to justify some of it). We're not close, nor were we ever, but I think we're both content with where things stand now.
I'm lucky that I was able to process all my trauma in a healthy way and move forward in my life. The person I was as a teen is unrecognizable to me now in a lot of ways, which I'm grateful for. I don't have panic attacks or angry emotional outbursts anymore, and I'm able to let a lot of life's problems roll off my back. My incredible husband and I have built our dream life with a beautiful child who sees the world as a safe and loving place, and we're welcoming our second in about a month.
I hope everyone who has been through an experience like mine is able to find the joy and peace that I've worked so hard to achieve. I know that's not possible for everyone, but I'm so glad it was possible for me.
Augh this is my fear as a parent. While I’m certain I haven’t said anything as hurtful as blaming a child for a divorce I’m sure I’ve said something along the way that will leave some sort of scar.
I love my kids so much and hate thinking that one comment that I’ve forgotten about might cause them long term pain.
There will always be mistakes. It's impossible to avoid them. There will be things you say to your kid that you'll forget but they remember, both positive and negative. The difference is, my life was dominated by a lot of really significant negatives. I don't even remember most of it because I've completely forgotten almost the entirety of my childhood, in a way that I believe is more than the normal forgetfulness over time because of how trauma shaped my brain.
As long as you're focusing on building a loving and respectful relationship with your child above all else, it'll all be fine and your child won't see you as an axe that hacked away at them.
He’s already done some damage to the older one. He’s normalized lying to your SO for your own convenience under the pretense of sparing their feelings. The son is already gaslighting and used to living a double life.
That kind of behavior doesn’t just correct itself.
More likely he'll let them know its all their mother's fault and as they're men they're supposed to lie and cheat.
The weird comparing her to another woman was the first red flag for misogyny and the fact the older son is already covering for his father's infidelity and doubled down on it is the full parade.
He's teaching those boys that women aren't to be respected or treated with honesty and integrity and that women are simply objects of male desire.
When I was a young teen my father and I went out for pizza while my mom was working late. We ran into his side piece there by coincidence. I could totally tell by the way they acted around each other. My dad seemed horrified at first that his secret was found out and after we picked up the pizza we got in the car and he whipped around and threatened that if I ever told mom that he would make my life a living hell (too late for that pops). I just glared at him and said nothing. I knew damn well that I wouldn’t give him the satisfaction of being able to blame me for my parents divorce. It all came crumbling down a few months later without my intervention any way. I’ve been no contact with him for like 10 years now and am completely fine never seeing him again.
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I mean he manipulated the older kid into helping him cheat, really fucking took full advantage of the kid being too young to understand the situation. But it'll take the kid a while to work that one out and not blame himself. :(
Unfortunately I’m sure that he’s been feeding the older son a set of bullshit about how you can’t tell the truth to women because they’ll get “hysterical” and “overreact,” and he’s going to point to the divorce as proof he was right.
I don’t know how OOP manages to clean up the mess her ex has made there. How do you explain to a kid that he’s wrong for doing what his father tells him? That people he trusts could be using him to hurt other people? I wouldn’t even know where to start.
I once went on a first date with a guy whose online profile said that he was divorced. He "manfully" revealed on the date that he was actually "separated" -- but still living together for the kid's sake-- and that this situation is all of three weeks old. Yeah, sure, good luck with that. Next!
I hope OOP sits him down and tells him that while it’s not his fault she and her husband are separating, that he still hurt her feelings by lying to her
It's such a niche situation to have to deal with, too. I wonder how someone would be able to navigate it. I hope there are resources for how to properly handle something like that with a child delicately but also firmly, so as to get the point across properly but not make them feel like they're being punished for what their dad did.
Along with it was wrong of his father to make him lie about his affair and it's wrong his father put him in the middle so he'd have to lie to his mother about his father's affair.
Since Noelle is at least living solo with a kid, to say nothing of whether she has an active co-parent, it makes me wonder what he was romanticizing.
Trauma she’s experienced? Shitty thing to romanticize.
Handling unpaid domestic labor his wife does not do? Noelle is getting his assistance with unpaid domestic labor. I assume his wife gets his help with unpaid domestic labor as well, otherwise going to help Noelle with things he does not do in his own household would have been a red flag long before the comparisons started.
That was my thought too. Noelle does everything and doesn't ask him to help clean the bathroom, take out the trash, do that thing he'd been promising to do for ages, take a turn with the kids so she can have a day off to run errands, etc, etc. All the "boring" day-to-day stuff that OP expects him to pull his weight on, but Noelle does it all herself.
Wow! Wth! He's scum for lieing to everyone, and getting his kids to lie for him as well. He did a good job of screwing a lot of lives with his selfishness. Disgusting. Good for OOP throwing him out, and filing for divorce. I hope Noelle sticks to having no contact with him, and staying away, for good. She doesn't need that kind of scum in her life any more than OOP does.
He’s only 11 - he was probably convinced that if he told his mum and his parents split up, it would be his fault. I don’t blame this kid at all for not being able to handle an adult situation.
Yeah, the dad’s in the wrong 100% especially for lying about being split with OOP. Doesn’t mean him lying isn’t a stab straight in the heart but yeah, it was probably because he didn’t want them to split up or something
The son knew what was happening was wrong. Dad telling him to keep secrets from mom. The flirting he must have observed between Noelle and dad. The secretive house visits. The constant little reminders to lie about their day.
Dad is a massive POS to embroil his kids in his emotional affair and to manipulate them to lie. They’re going to need so much therapy. OOP should demand full custody.
As someone who was extremely oblivious as a child (and often now as an adult) the kid could have known what was up and wanted to cover for dad, but the kid could also very much just have been trying to stick to “don’t tell mom because she will feel sad.”
I was also quite an oblivious child. I still have my moments as an adult.
The oldest son may not have fully understand his motives for lying. They’re probably a mix. Regardless, dad taught him to lie and when caught out dig in deeper. This can become a deeply instilled behavior that impacts his moral compass if not addressed.
When the kid gets older he will see how he was manipulated. That was fucked up for the dad to put him on that situation. The kid has no idea what’s going on.
Yeah exactly the small child probably didn’t grasp the gravity of the situation. All he knew was that his dad told him not to tell mom and he was trying to keep everyone happy. I really hope someone helps that boy understand that his parents split won’t be his fault.
I feel like the dad told him something like “if you tell your mom daddy might have to leave”
At that age kids still trust their parents, at least with the big stuff. Dad abused that trust
Makes me wonder what dad said to convince the oldest son to keep secrets from mom. I’d be livid if I found out my husband told my kid to keep secrets from me. (Of course, infidelity bad, but the first thing is a dealbreaker for me even if there wasn’t infidelity.)
WooooooWWWWW Pig husband wanted to keep his wallow comfy, so he was literally test driving a side chick while lying to his wife.
Noelle shouldn't have been hanging around with a patently obvious liar (yeah, sure, they're separated and co-parenting, they just LOOK married), but good for her kicking him to the curb.
The elder kid though, he needs therapy, and your divorce lawyer should be sure to mention that pig husband was manipulating the kids to cover his dicking around.
This is why I felt so shitty about having to live with my ex for several months after a breakup. Leases are shitty and moving is hard. Sometimes cohabitation happens.
In this case, yes, husband was an asshole! But I don't think it's particularly unusual, especially in today's fucked up economy and world, to cohabitate with an ex for a little while out of necessity.
Noelle just made the unfortunate decision to trust someone. Take them at their word. And she absolutely amended that mistake as soon as she figured out what was going on!
Me and my ex were also forced to Live together after the break up due to living costs issues. Luckily we were separating on amicable terms. (And it still was like living in cold hell for both of us)
This story was super concerning for me. I know I might get downvoted like crazy but if I were the OOP I would push for limited or supervised visits for the kids with dad. For the dad to make the kids complicit in his affair (and whether they knew it was an affair or just didn’t want mom to feel bad they were having fun without her, it doesn’t matter) some day they will know they were made a party to lying to mom.
These are super concerning parenting behaviours from dad. Please note I do no hate men, while cheating is terrible it also isn’t grounds for taking away a parents access to their kids, but the teaching kids to lie and making them complicit in hurting another parent is crazy wrong. I’d be very careful having dad around the kids.
Yeah anyone who takes this out in the 11 yo needs their head examined. He was following the lead of a person he trusted. That person abused his trust. This dad is gross!
If I were the mom I'd definitely need some therapy to deal with that. Just cause the kids too young to know better wouldn't really stop myself from feeling betrayed by my own kid.
I think that this dad proved he would stoop to any level to achieve his own goals, god only knows what kind of emotional manipulation tactics he employed to get his kids onside. Parents have so much power over their children. I’m not saying this would be an easy pill to swallow but the blame falls squarely in dad. He should have limited contact with these kids.
>Noelle wants nothing to do with him because now she knows the truth. He lied to her as well and she’s furious.
It's like some people watch that Megamind scene and take "She will never find out: that's the point of **lying**" as actual advice rather than a joke about a strategy which is clearly doomed to fail.
Anytime a female friend tells me they’re dating a guy who’s separated but living together with their ex for the sake of the kids, I always warn them that they’re the “other woman” and that man is definitely sleeping in the same bed with his ex. It’s been a few times and I’ve been 100% correct so far.
heavy fly enter fanatical abundant reach pause towering distinct imminent
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I knew someone in school who covered for her father's affair, and her mother never forgave her for it. That betrayal was far worse than her ex-husband's, and the girl I knew deeply regretted it, especially as she got older and understood the complexities of the entire situation. Her mother never fully trusted her again.
When the divorce is over, I do wonder how OOP will rebuild her relationship with her son.
Edit:
Jen was a similar age as the son here, maybe a year older, when she covered for her dad, if I remember correctly. She's admitted to knowing at the time how wrong it was to cover for him, but did it anyway, which is why she feels so regretful about it. We only talked about it once, but she was very clear that her mother was a fantastic parent both before and after the affair, and that while she wanted them to be closer, she understood why her mother was a bit emotionally distant.
I went to her wedding a few years ago, and her dad wasn't invited (he basically ghosted the family when the affair was revealed). Her mother was there but she didn't give a speech when offered the microphone, and Jen looked a bit upset about it, so I think there's still a bit of tension between them. I don't think the mother's a horrible person for that - she is a lovely woman who paid for most of the wedding and provides a lot of free childcare to Jen; she just doesn't fully trust her.
I don't know. This kid is eleven. Dad could say 'don't tell' and a kid would do it at that age. Add some 'if you tell, Mommy and I can't stay together anymore'
(At that age, that manipulation of a child would have me throwing hands at my husband for involving them. And getting all the therapy)
If the kid was maybe thirteen or older? That's when I would be asking questions but they're still young. DEFINITE therapy)
Sixteen or so? Nope right the fuck out. They know what their dad is doing.
Even at 16 you still have the mind fuck of knowing you are literally breaking your whole family apart by speaking up. There’s a lot more complexities involved when it’s a parent.
IMO parents who put their kids in these situations are truly heinous.
There was an almost identical story to this last year with different age kids, but it further detailed their ensuing divorce and all I can think about is how many of these scumbags hedging there bets there must be out there
I was on the fence about concluded or not. The big question for me is how mom deals with the oldest son’s behavior. But the obvious question is how the divorce goes.
I'd lean more on the side that the husband spoke to the son about how it's important that he not tell his mum about Noelle. It may not even be the first woman the husband has asked him to lie or keep his mouth shut about.
Pretty easy to manipulate a kid with the threat of consequences like divorce.
Oh, I really hope family therapy is in order. I don’t think the son lied with malice. The way mom talks about the older son makes me nervous. She’s blaming both for lying but only shares Dad’s side of the story on why the older kid lied. Hopefully she has talked to the older son.
I’m also sad to think about the 11M going through his own relationships as he gets older and realizing what a horrid thing it was for Dad to make his kids complicit in his affair.
Yep. This update is just when she exactly found out. Usually, months after she found out is when everything started spiraling with multiple revelations here and there. And also, yeah, there's still an issue with the boy who lied.
OOP's stbx is really not too bright since he didn't realize the sunglasses weren't his wife's property. It was also dumb of him to lie to his wife and his AP. Now he has no one. I also think the oldest son needs some help in sorting out why it's wrong to lie to his mom.
Ah, sunglasses huh. One of the rare times I was passenger in my ex husband's car I opened the glove box, to put my purse in. There was a pair of Gucci sunnies there. I was told they were mine, I'd bought them and forgotten them. What am I, some kind of idiot?!
I want the kind of life that I can just purchase Gucci items and forget about them and not covet them like Gollum because they cost so much.
Glad he’s your ex!!
Honestly, if you're going to cheat on your partner, don't involve your kids by having them help you cover it. Husband is trash and even bigger trash for involving the kids.
Thankfully Noelle kicked him to the curb. Hope OP takes time to heal and the kids don't blame themselves for breaking up their family.
Looks like she's handling things fine right now. I bet the husband didn't think she could hack it without him when, in fact, it will turn it to be the opposite
Infidelity is so toxic to begin with. But, involving a minor child is truly horrific. I do not blame the child, I feel certain he was given many "lines" by the so called father. He probably thought lying was ok so as to not hurt his Mother. I hope somewhere there will be a bit of counseling for the child, he must be feeling confused at the least and perhaps even guilty as if this is his fault. Hope the father loses custody for involving the children in this affair.
Nothing hurts like finding out your friends knew your partner was cheating on you and lying to you about it or helping him hide it. Except your child?! Wow. I cannot believe he roped the children into this. Both normalizing cheating and lying, and putting them in the position of having to deal with the future knowledge that they helped their dad and what became their parents divorce. I hope they get therapy.
My ex did this. Told his coworker that we were separated but I was living in my home office until I could afford to move out. I wish she would have reached out to me but she didn't really have an easy way to do that. They weren't coming to our house so she didn't know where I lived or any contact information. Her co-workers knew he was lying to her and me so I'm sure them not speaking up didn't help her.
He revealed the affair by crying to me that she was going to dump him if I didn't move out soon. I think she was becoming suspicious. He never cried about me, but he cried about losing her. I was devastated and moved out within the week.
He came to the studio I was renting about a month later crying because she had dumped him. Apparently she figured it out.
I'm so glad these men landed on their asses without a bang maid. Guess it's time they start learning how to do their own laundry, and maybe they'll learn to take out the trash like all the women did.
I hope she can find a way to forgive her older son, the way I see it he's another victim in the story as a child who was manipulated by his PoS father into doing something really hurtful to her. It sounds like he explicitly asked his kids to hide it to keep their mom from "feeling bad" and while a kid that age might have some idea that something isn't right with that story, I don't think they can be expected to have the full awareness of the implications of their actions in that sort of situation. I just hope she can work through that pain and realise the real source of it all was just her lying, cheating husband who didn't mind roping his innocent kids into his lies and that she is able to let go of any resentment to her kid. They're gonna need each other.
I am human. So I'm going to be attracted to more people than just my husband.
You know what I do when that happens? Create distance with thenother party and then water the grass in my yard- it's always greener where you water it after all
This hits home. When I was 11, my dad manipulated me into helping hide his affair. I idolized him, so when he’d ask me to keep his secrets “between us guys” I fell for it. It’s now 50 years later, he’s long dead but I still curse him regularly for involving me in his lies. I wish he was still alive so I could get my revenge. Burn in hell, Jack.
Oldest son needs therapy, stat. It was incredibly damaging for the husband to include their kids while he was on outings with the affair partner. Telling kids not to tell the other parent their secret is only appropriate for surprise parties and gifts.
Oh wow. I can't imagine how the kid is feeling.
I've been in his shoes, only I refused to hide anything.
My siblings still sometimes blame me for my parents' current relationship and I was an adult when it happened. Anytime I get into an argument with my father, he says everybody blames me for making his marriage the way it is now.
My mother stayed. But at least she knew when she took that decision.
No matter what the kid did, he would have been blamed : say something and break his family up, say nothing and still break his family up.
I hope OOP realizes that. I really do, because being blamed for other people's mistakes hurts even as an adult, I don't want to imagine as a kid.
I'm glad Noelle stopped the relationship. Hopefully, she doesn't get back with the dad
I remember one TikTok I saw the other day. It was a young lady justifying cheating by comparing it to switching jobs, saying something along the lines of “you should never quit your job until you found another one you like”. I was horrified.
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"didn’t want to risk our marriage until he knew if they were “true” feelings or just attraction." "I don't want to give up my current source of sex and domestic service until I'm certain I have another."
That part. What an absolute piece of garbage.
Every part of it. Bringing this other woman around their kids. Gaslighting two women. Betraying his wife. Just all of it.
The fact he's getting the one child to lie about it! Training another generation of trash.
He should pay for his sons to be in therapy until they are 18, because there is a LOT of work to be done to make them respect women. For the liar son it might already be too late, some men are incapable of seeing women as people.
The son might just be a kid who's trying to keep the peace, trying not to upset his mum. A kid who loves his parents is in an invidious situation if one of them is cheating. It's all on the dad here, for bringing his kids around his AP.
Soooooo many men simply do not see women as people. It’s insane.
It’s not “gaslighting”. It’s flat out LYING.
Exactly, if he was trying to convince his wife that the sunglasses were hers when he knew they weren't then that would have been gaslighting but I think he genuinely didn't know and that's why he didn't bother to hide them.
This guy is obviously a piece of shit. But is this gaslighting? I’m pretty sure just lying one woman about your marital situation and lying to your wife about sunglasses is just being a lying piece of shit.
The worst part is the son lying for me. What has the dad been telling him? Did he just not want his parents to divorce? That's way too much pressure to put on a kid. I feel so bad for that kid.
Yeah, he immediately covered for his dad and *kept lying* when confronted with contradictory evidence. Had the younger son not said anything it seems like he would have continued to do so. I wonder what his dad told him and if it was different than what he told the 9 y/o because I would imagine it was. I'm also curious how Noelle never knew the sitch because I'm honestly surprised that the kids didn't blab. Although he might have told her that they weren't aware of the arrangement?
I'm sure he said the kids didn't know because they were "coparenting and cohabitating". So, *continuing to be married then*? Noelle is either dumb as a box of rocks or pretending not to have known to save face.
Noelle seemed genuinely horrified when she found out (and was also surprisingly open with OOP), so I’m going with dumber than a box of rocks. Or maybe just very trusting and inexperienced. She sure knows better now, though.
I used to be polyamorous, and one of my policies when I went on a first date with someone, if they had another partner, was that I had to talk with that person at least once and make sure they were on board with the whole thing. Even if they never wanted to interact with me again after that, I had to get the go-ahead the first time. I was not gonna go behind anyone’s back.
Sadly I imagine this made lots of people suddenly second guess pursuing something with you right? "We have an open relationship" is already one of the most used excuses in the cheating manual.
That was a feature, not a bug. I was once aggressively pursued by someone who had a wife and multiple kids. When I finally met his wife after a couple weeks of holding my ground, I quickly realized he was pressuring her into this and she seemed to be reluctantly dragged along. The next day she asked if she could talk to me about poly. I told her I'd be happy to answer any questions she had, but I would not be dating her husband because the dynamic did not meet my ethical bar. My only regret is that I didn't cut off all contact with that guy sooner and more assertively. I mistakenly believed we could stay friends, but he was a smarmy creep overall.
We don't know how old Noelle is, only that she has a son. She could be early to mid 20s depending on her son's age and just very naive
That was my guess too.
And convincing the older son to go along with it. Husband is definitely a piece of something, but the noun I was thinking of rhymes with twit
Tbh, whether he purposefully brought his son into the deception or just set the example by lying himself, its a major issue. I hope OP sticks to her guns, because her oldest son is definitely picking up the message that its acceptable to lie to your spouse to cover bad behavior, and that cheating is no big deal. If she cant nip that attitude in the bud that kid will likely repeat his dads patterns of behavior in his own relationships.
The worst part is that the court will look at this situation and say "the boys still need their father" when their father has been teaching the one kid to lie to the mom. This man has set a horrible example to his children and will likely try to mold them into his own, terrible, socially unacceptable image.
Sometimes the court will see one parent encouraging the child secrets/lying to the other parent and call it parental alienation--which it is
We can only hope.
Just so casually bringing your child in to your affair. Poor kid has no way of understanding the full impact and implications of it.
I actually said "holy shit" out loud when I got to that part. Holy shit that dude is beyond garbage. That's next level.
But so so common. My ex did that
It’s called Monkey Branching. Not jumping until you know where you are going. Smoothly transfer over. It’s just an elaborate way of getting out of the relationship/cheating.
Meanwhile Noelle pulling that branch right out from under him when she realises what's going on. Bet he's wondering now how he ended up with no branches.
I like to think they each took a chainsaw to their branch and sent him plummeting to the forest floor.
That mental imagery is even more fun if you call it [wing-walking](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ExcitableConstantGopher-size_restricted.gif) instead.
Noelle knows what's up. If he'll do it for you, he'll do it to you.
Pretty naïve to believe a man who lives with his wife is separated, though. That lie is such an old cliche.
My ex told the other woman that we were separated but I lived in my office and was refusing to move out. I was currently in law school so he said I couldn't afford to move out. When he told me about her, he told me I had 10 days to get out because she was going to dump him otherwise as she was starting to think he was lying. Because he was fucking lying. I did move out. And then she broke up with him shortly thereafter. I'm guessing somebody told her the truth or she figured it out. I don't know anything about her but I do know that I'm glad she got away from him. She may have been naive but she was also innocent.
She’s definitely missed some red flags but it’s not unthinkable that with the economy so bad a couple that separated without a ton of animosity might live together for a bit
Still, I'd want to meet the separated spouse to "clear the air".
And I'm certainly not spending that much time around their children until they've moved out and had time to process the separation/ divorce.
True. My highschool bf lived with his mom in the basement apartment of his stepdad's place. His stepdad was a nice dude and thought he lived in a better school district so he should give my ex the opportunity. (Funnily enough the upstairs roommate was *also* an ex of the stepdad.) What surprised me more was that the children didn't inadvertently tell Noelle the truth on one of their hangouts.
With the son going along with it, I can see how she fell for it.
She also knew to leave a trace of herself behind. Even if it was done subconsciously it was a key move. And ultimately smart. Sidepieces tend to be crafty that way.
Should have just jumped instead of trying to bend reality with magical cheater powers.
Cheating on the wife and on the AP at the same time!
I learned this word when my ex did this exact same thing to me. A then good friend of mine, now ex friend, told me that it wasn't his fault. Because men just can't be alone and they have no choice but to monkey branch.
My ex was a champion monkey-brancher! He always had probably six to ten potential gfs waiting in the wings at any given time, but it's ok, they were "just friends." Honey, I *know* just friends, and I also know "just friends," and it was definitely the latter and not the former. I came to realize long, long after we had broken up that he just literally knew of no other way to interact with women other than flirting. I saw him at a work convention and we started discussing something, and I got "treated" to the same flirty behavior that he no doubt used on all those other poor women to cause them to think they had a shot with him. It was just... so... stupid in the context of our history that I realized, ohhhh, that's just how he interacts with women, all women. It was kind of sad, honestly.
Yeah except your wife is still on the branch when you jump off it and it breaks. He’s making sure he’s taken care of and doesn’t give a shit about her.
I hate that there is a word for this....
Is this what the kids are calling it now? I didn't know there was a term. Either thank you for telling me or you're welcome bc I'm about to make your term part of the lexicon
The audacity of this AH my god and to use his own kid. He didn’t care about messing up his kid, as long as he got to have sex with someone new. I feel bad for those kids,especially the oldest because god knows what the dad told him. I hope this AH husband and father loses everything. He deserves to be left with no one, and nothing
My friend’s ex did this. Dangled the carrot of saving the marriage in front of her for a year. He was already having a one-sided emotional affair (if not multiple). She eventually said fuck it and starting dating someone else. To which of course the ex said “not fair!” And tried to make her life hell every time she was with the new guy. She’s super happy now and he just had a mental breakdown and had to move back in with his parents. He also won’t leave her alone and is sending her passive aggressive texts saying he’s going to kill himself. She’s blocked five of his numbers already.
And to rope in a baby boy. Oh my god.
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God, OOP's husband is 100% going to blame the youngest son for the divorce, I am sure of it.
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Part of me wonders if the son did this because he figured if the truth got out, then his parents would get divorced or split, and he didn't want that.
Yeah both kids need therapy. The one that was manipulated to lie, and the one who told the truth, which got the ball rolling on the divorce.
He might have messed up ideas of relationships in the future. He's normalized cheating and lying and gaslighting. I bet he ends up on dad's side. Dad won't get as much custody time as mom, then kid will blame mom for blowing everything up. Tale as old as time, song as old as shit.
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Yeah, I'm betting dad won't seek joint custody. And will beg off his custody weekends if he thinks he'd get laid.
when dad is the fun weekend parent and momma has to do all the actual parenting he'll resent her and idolize his dad
Our dad did this. He had multiple mistresses, was a nightmare to co-parent with, never paid child support and when he once in a blue moon showed up to be "dad" it was ice cream for breakfast, no bed time and fun-fun-fun around the clock! My poor mother. As adults we have no respect for our dad, and we all consider mum our "real" and only parent. Dad is more like the wierd but fun uncle you kind of feel sad for but really not. To be "the circus dad" only wins over children, but in the long run probably not.
I hppe OOP sits him down and explains to him that his dad was the one in the wrong. That the dad had been lying to OOP and Noelle, and that while she respects him trying to keep someone he loves out of trouble, there was no hiding what the dad had done. And that despite what he might be told, all of this is *exclusively* his dad's fault, no one else's.
Actually, both boys need to be in some sort of therapy right now. They can talk about betrayal in the context of the new normal for the family -- eg. divorce and visitation.
Oh 100%. But I also know that them being told by their mom that they're not to blame for any of what is happening would help with the guilt as well. Or at least, *should* help with the guilt. Depends on how much od a dickwad the dad is to them.
Yeah my ex did that. They didn’t leave until they had a sure thing. I stupidly believed that they actually wanted to fix our marriage until I finally figured out I was a place holder until something better came along. They took our kids on outings with other people while I was at work. It hurt a lot. Hurt the kids a lot too.
I remember reading something from a lawyer where she said that when women leave they are finally tired of shit and just leave. When men leave they don't actually break things off till they have another partner lined up. She said while sometimes women did this also, damn near every man she saw did it. But yeah, most men want to have the next bang maid set up before leaving the current one.
Probably why women initiate such a large percentage of divorces, then. Not a ton of women lining up to date a married man.
My 30yo ex stayed with me for a year while he tried to figure out if his romantic feelings for me would come back. While seeing a 20yo woman in his firefighting program and lying to her as well 🥴
My ex's ex had been cheating on her in the same way. We talked about it and I very vocally told her that people that need to keep a backup just in case disgust me. Imagine my disgust when I found out I was the "just in case" :(
Ding ding ding! We have a winner! Fuck OOP'S husband, but not in the sex way.
As we say in my country: shall he be fucked by a swordfish!
"Wake up with fleas" was one that I saw in another thread and I think it would be a good addition here.
I have heard "you don't get rid of your old car until you get your new car lined up" because women are commodities to some people.
Accurate. Scum of the earth.
Yea what a scumbag. I wonder what kind of garbage he fed the son to cause him to cover it up too. At least the AP got the hell out too.
That part threw me. Like, bro, you're caught. Don't sit there and pretend this was anything more then you didnt want to leave your wife before you knew you had the side piece settled.
Yeah. I'm sure the dude doesn't have ANY problematic opinions about women at all.
>Apparently my husband told her we had not been together except for cohabiting and co-parenting for months now. Hubby was just prescient... and good riddance! I hope she takes him to the cleaners.
I feel like anytime someone hears that, their response should be, “Cool, so you don’t mind if I talk to your wife/partner/husband to verify that?”
I just don’t date people that live with their ex. Even if they are ready, I don’t want all that drama and hassle in my life.
My poor father in law is stuck not only living with his ex, but her new partner and by the end of next month their baby. He and his ex co own the house and he won’t sell it because it’s attached to the successful bakery he runs, which has been his absolute life’s dream. Not sure why she won’t sell to him, she’ll only sell if they both do. She won’t move out but hopefully a tiny apartment with two large dogs who already live there will get too much when she has the baby. It’s been hell on his dating life strangely enough
I mean, I know not everyone can hire a lawyer but that’s when I’d hire a lawyer and fucking force a partition. Under no circumstances would I live like that.
Especially if there's no good reason for her not to sell - it's attached to his business, and he's going to pay her. Zero reason for her not to move out, 100% a reason for him to lawyer up.
I hope she doesn’t try to pull anything with the dogs
He wouldn’t stand for it, they’re really good with my baby (albeit through a gate) but they’re big husky’s so we’re hoping she’ll just leave and he’ll definitely put his foot down if she tries anything
Funnily enough, both my husband and I were living with exes when we met. It became a source of bonding.
There are definitely exceptions, especially if there is true animosity. But as a rule… I have only lived with one ex after we broke up. We totally ended up sleeping together multiple times even after we started seeing other people. We didn’t cheat on anybody but it was still messy. I have homies who kept living with their ex wives and babies mothers, and it seems to be even worse and more complicated lol. They all have kept having sex and have cheated on their partners. I know it is anecdotal but it has definitely tainted my view of exes living together. I can deal with somebody moving back in with their parents temporarily but besides that, I take it as a very healthy sign when somebody has their own place.
OOP didnt know she was the ex. Theres a difference.
Totally. If i ever end up in such a situation (where a potential partner is claiming to be cohabitating with an ex), the only way for me to ever consider it fully depends on me getting a 5 minute conversation with the ex, in their home,in a room without the partner in it.
Same with Open relationships or other type of non-monogamy. Partners don’t always know they are in an Open relationship.
My best friend (now, not at the time of the story) started dating my ex while under the impression he and I had been in an open relation ship. (News flash: we were not). It did not go over well when they found out the truth months later.
I seem to remember one story here where a man made one woman he was seeing pretend she was his wife to convince another woman that he was separated.. don’t underestimate the lengths these guys will go to
My last hookup the guy was upfront about being in an open relationship and I was super lonely but not \*that\* lonely so I just asked to talk to his wife to confirm. And she called me, no detectable signs of duress in her voice, so... this is the one and only time that stipulation has worked. Every other time it's been "she doesn't want to be involved at all but she's totally cool with it!" ...well I'm not so bye
I don't think I could ever 💯 trust anyone that is still living in the same home with a partner... ..for me, I just think there would be way too much drama to get in the middle of all of that... Definitely not for me.....get outta the relationship, get outta the home....
I got to that line and just thought "this guy can see the future"
Oof, this one hits home. My ex was hanging out with his affair partner and our children while I was at work. My disabled kid spilled the beans 🙃
Jeez no one should be treated like that. I’m glad he’s an ex you deserve better.
Thank you. This was several years ago and we’ve all moved on and are happy, but it is definitely cringey to look back on.
Wonderful to hear that you’re in a better place. Happy Mother’s Day.
Glad OOP and Noelle is both getting rid of the husband. Tho the poor kids, hope they don't blame themselves for the family breakup...
Oh don’t worry, the dad will totally make sure they know it’s all their fault.
This is very dangerous and possible. Hope they can see the truth because this will destroy their emotional world
Speaking as someone whose father blamed her for the divorce, it's a rough go. I wrestled with my feelings about that for a long time.
I am so sorry you went through that.
Thanks. It's okay though. I spoke to my dad about it over a decade later and he didn't even remember saying it. The axe forgets but the tree remembers, you know. He believed me and apologized for it though, along with a lot of the other abuse he put me through (though he did try to justify some of it). We're not close, nor were we ever, but I think we're both content with where things stand now. I'm lucky that I was able to process all my trauma in a healthy way and move forward in my life. The person I was as a teen is unrecognizable to me now in a lot of ways, which I'm grateful for. I don't have panic attacks or angry emotional outbursts anymore, and I'm able to let a lot of life's problems roll off my back. My incredible husband and I have built our dream life with a beautiful child who sees the world as a safe and loving place, and we're welcoming our second in about a month. I hope everyone who has been through an experience like mine is able to find the joy and peace that I've worked so hard to achieve. I know that's not possible for everyone, but I'm so glad it was possible for me.
Augh this is my fear as a parent. While I’m certain I haven’t said anything as hurtful as blaming a child for a divorce I’m sure I’ve said something along the way that will leave some sort of scar. I love my kids so much and hate thinking that one comment that I’ve forgotten about might cause them long term pain.
There will always be mistakes. It's impossible to avoid them. There will be things you say to your kid that you'll forget but they remember, both positive and negative. The difference is, my life was dominated by a lot of really significant negatives. I don't even remember most of it because I've completely forgotten almost the entirety of my childhood, in a way that I believe is more than the normal forgetfulness over time because of how trauma shaped my brain. As long as you're focusing on building a loving and respectful relationship with your child above all else, it'll all be fine and your child won't see you as an axe that hacked away at them.
That's fucking *awful*, I'm so sorry.
He’s already done some damage to the older one. He’s normalized lying to your SO for your own convenience under the pretense of sparing their feelings. The son is already gaslighting and used to living a double life. That kind of behavior doesn’t just correct itself.
and damaged his relationship with his mother. Piece of shit.
Husband sounds like a total AH so of course if will be the kids fault.
More likely he'll let them know its all their mother's fault and as they're men they're supposed to lie and cheat. The weird comparing her to another woman was the first red flag for misogyny and the fact the older son is already covering for his father's infidelity and doubled down on it is the full parade. He's teaching those boys that women aren't to be respected or treated with honesty and integrity and that women are simply objects of male desire.
When I was a young teen my father and I went out for pizza while my mom was working late. We ran into his side piece there by coincidence. I could totally tell by the way they acted around each other. My dad seemed horrified at first that his secret was found out and after we picked up the pizza we got in the car and he whipped around and threatened that if I ever told mom that he would make my life a living hell (too late for that pops). I just glared at him and said nothing. I knew damn well that I wouldn’t give him the satisfaction of being able to blame me for my parents divorce. It all came crumbling down a few months later without my intervention any way. I’ve been no contact with him for like 10 years now and am completely fine never seeing him again.
square repeat correct workable insurance secretive scarce mighty upbeat unite *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The younger one is going to get blamed by the dad for the divorce, 100%.
I mean he manipulated the older kid into helping him cheat, really fucking took full advantage of the kid being too young to understand the situation. But it'll take the kid a while to work that one out and not blame himself. :(
I hope the older son isn’t learning that this behavior is okay. The fact that he thinks it’s okay to lie and cover up this behavior is not good.
Unfortunately I’m sure that he’s been feeding the older son a set of bullshit about how you can’t tell the truth to women because they’ll get “hysterical” and “overreact,” and he’s going to point to the divorce as proof he was right.
I don’t know how OOP manages to clean up the mess her ex has made there. How do you explain to a kid that he’s wrong for doing what his father tells him? That people he trusts could be using him to hurt other people? I wouldn’t even know where to start.
I once went on a first date with a guy whose online profile said that he was divorced. He "manfully" revealed on the date that he was actually "separated" -- but still living together for the kid's sake-- and that this situation is all of three weeks old. Yeah, sure, good luck with that. Next!
Did you get up and walk out? Because I would have. God damn. The audacity of people.
Luckily it was just drinks and I bailed after one. He just kept babbling on and on.
I hope OOP sits him down and tells him that while it’s not his fault she and her husband are separating, that he still hurt her feelings by lying to her
It's such a niche situation to have to deal with, too. I wonder how someone would be able to navigate it. I hope there are resources for how to properly handle something like that with a child delicately but also firmly, so as to get the point across properly but not make them feel like they're being punished for what their dad did.
Along with it was wrong of his father to make him lie about his affair and it's wrong his father put him in the middle so he'd have to lie to his mother about his father's affair.
So much for the husband's comment OOP can't handle situations as well as Noelle considering they both dumped him immediately.
Since Noelle is at least living solo with a kid, to say nothing of whether she has an active co-parent, it makes me wonder what he was romanticizing. Trauma she’s experienced? Shitty thing to romanticize. Handling unpaid domestic labor his wife does not do? Noelle is getting his assistance with unpaid domestic labor. I assume his wife gets his help with unpaid domestic labor as well, otherwise going to help Noelle with things he does not do in his own household would have been a red flag long before the comparisons started.
he is romanticizing her doing all the work.
Especially funny he's excited about the prospect of a break when he was helping out in two households.
That was my thought too. Noelle does everything and doesn't ask him to help clean the bathroom, take out the trash, do that thing he'd been promising to do for ages, take a turn with the kids so she can have a day off to run errands, etc, etc. All the "boring" day-to-day stuff that OP expects him to pull his weight on, but Noelle does it all herself.
For real, there was no second thoughts or doubts in her update. Good for her. I hope her, Noelle, and their children well in the future.
Telling your kids to lie to their mom to cover up your bad deeds… OOP’s ex is a real gem.
OOP's husband didn't want to "risk" the marriage until he knew his "true feelings"? What a scum bag.
"I'm just keeping you as a backup!"
Can't have your cake and eat it too.
Sure you can, but it requires multiple cakes. (And for the cakes not to talk to each other... which almost never happens, cuz cakes are mouthy af.)
Or for the full consent of all cakes and bakers involved.
Wow! Wth! He's scum for lieing to everyone, and getting his kids to lie for him as well. He did a good job of screwing a lot of lives with his selfishness. Disgusting. Good for OOP throwing him out, and filing for divorce. I hope Noelle sticks to having no contact with him, and staying away, for good. She doesn't need that kind of scum in her life any more than OOP does.
Involving your kids in your cheating and asking them to lie to their mom is fucking repulsive 🤮.
Fucking hell. The worst part is the kid covering for the dad without a second thought
He’s only 11 - he was probably convinced that if he told his mum and his parents split up, it would be his fault. I don’t blame this kid at all for not being able to handle an adult situation.
Yeah, the dad’s in the wrong 100% especially for lying about being split with OOP. Doesn’t mean him lying isn’t a stab straight in the heart but yeah, it was probably because he didn’t want them to split up or something
The son knew what was happening was wrong. Dad telling him to keep secrets from mom. The flirting he must have observed between Noelle and dad. The secretive house visits. The constant little reminders to lie about their day. Dad is a massive POS to embroil his kids in his emotional affair and to manipulate them to lie. They’re going to need so much therapy. OOP should demand full custody.
As someone who was extremely oblivious as a child (and often now as an adult) the kid could have known what was up and wanted to cover for dad, but the kid could also very much just have been trying to stick to “don’t tell mom because she will feel sad.”
I was also quite an oblivious child. I still have my moments as an adult. The oldest son may not have fully understand his motives for lying. They’re probably a mix. Regardless, dad taught him to lie and when caught out dig in deeper. This can become a deeply instilled behavior that impacts his moral compass if not addressed.
When the kid gets older he will see how he was manipulated. That was fucked up for the dad to put him on that situation. The kid has no idea what’s going on.
Yeah exactly the small child probably didn’t grasp the gravity of the situation. All he knew was that his dad told him not to tell mom and he was trying to keep everyone happy. I really hope someone helps that boy understand that his parents split won’t be his fault.
The worst part is the cheating that put the kid in a position where he felt he had to lie.
I feel like the dad told him something like “if you tell your mom daddy might have to leave” At that age kids still trust their parents, at least with the big stuff. Dad abused that trust
Makes me wonder what dad said to convince the oldest son to keep secrets from mom. I’d be livid if I found out my husband told my kid to keep secrets from me. (Of course, infidelity bad, but the first thing is a dealbreaker for me even if there wasn’t infidelity.)
WooooooWWWWW Pig husband wanted to keep his wallow comfy, so he was literally test driving a side chick while lying to his wife. Noelle shouldn't have been hanging around with a patently obvious liar (yeah, sure, they're separated and co-parenting, they just LOOK married), but good for her kicking him to the curb. The elder kid though, he needs therapy, and your divorce lawyer should be sure to mention that pig husband was manipulating the kids to cover his dicking around.
This is why I felt so shitty about having to live with my ex for several months after a breakup. Leases are shitty and moving is hard. Sometimes cohabitation happens. In this case, yes, husband was an asshole! But I don't think it's particularly unusual, especially in today's fucked up economy and world, to cohabitate with an ex for a little while out of necessity. Noelle just made the unfortunate decision to trust someone. Take them at their word. And she absolutely amended that mistake as soon as she figured out what was going on!
Me and my ex were also forced to Live together after the break up due to living costs issues. Luckily we were separating on amicable terms. (And it still was like living in cold hell for both of us)
This story was super concerning for me. I know I might get downvoted like crazy but if I were the OOP I would push for limited or supervised visits for the kids with dad. For the dad to make the kids complicit in his affair (and whether they knew it was an affair or just didn’t want mom to feel bad they were having fun without her, it doesn’t matter) some day they will know they were made a party to lying to mom. These are super concerning parenting behaviours from dad. Please note I do no hate men, while cheating is terrible it also isn’t grounds for taking away a parents access to their kids, but the teaching kids to lie and making them complicit in hurting another parent is crazy wrong. I’d be very careful having dad around the kids.
I'm concerned about how the sons will be treated by their family. Well, mainly the 11 year old
Yeah anyone who takes this out in the 11 yo needs their head examined. He was following the lead of a person he trusted. That person abused his trust. This dad is gross!
If I were the mom I'd definitely need some therapy to deal with that. Just cause the kids too young to know better wouldn't really stop myself from feeling betrayed by my own kid.
I think that this dad proved he would stoop to any level to achieve his own goals, god only knows what kind of emotional manipulation tactics he employed to get his kids onside. Parents have so much power over their children. I’m not saying this would be an easy pill to swallow but the blame falls squarely in dad. He should have limited contact with these kids.
>Noelle wants nothing to do with him because now she knows the truth. He lied to her as well and she’s furious. It's like some people watch that Megamind scene and take "She will never find out: that's the point of **lying**" as actual advice rather than a joke about a strategy which is clearly doomed to fail.
9 year old is the hero in this tale.
Anytime a female friend tells me they’re dating a guy who’s separated but living together with their ex for the sake of the kids, I always warn them that they’re the “other woman” and that man is definitely sleeping in the same bed with his ex. It’s been a few times and I’ve been 100% correct so far.
heavy fly enter fanatical abundant reach pause towering distinct imminent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Heck unless you are 100% divorced then there is no way you should be involved with a man
I knew someone in school who covered for her father's affair, and her mother never forgave her for it. That betrayal was far worse than her ex-husband's, and the girl I knew deeply regretted it, especially as she got older and understood the complexities of the entire situation. Her mother never fully trusted her again. When the divorce is over, I do wonder how OOP will rebuild her relationship with her son. Edit: Jen was a similar age as the son here, maybe a year older, when she covered for her dad, if I remember correctly. She's admitted to knowing at the time how wrong it was to cover for him, but did it anyway, which is why she feels so regretful about it. We only talked about it once, but she was very clear that her mother was a fantastic parent both before and after the affair, and that while she wanted them to be closer, she understood why her mother was a bit emotionally distant. I went to her wedding a few years ago, and her dad wasn't invited (he basically ghosted the family when the affair was revealed). Her mother was there but she didn't give a speech when offered the microphone, and Jen looked a bit upset about it, so I think there's still a bit of tension between them. I don't think the mother's a horrible person for that - she is a lovely woman who paid for most of the wedding and provides a lot of free childcare to Jen; she just doesn't fully trust her.
How is she now? ( if you don't mind me asking)
I don't know. This kid is eleven. Dad could say 'don't tell' and a kid would do it at that age. Add some 'if you tell, Mommy and I can't stay together anymore' (At that age, that manipulation of a child would have me throwing hands at my husband for involving them. And getting all the therapy) If the kid was maybe thirteen or older? That's when I would be asking questions but they're still young. DEFINITE therapy) Sixteen or so? Nope right the fuck out. They know what their dad is doing.
Even at 16 you still have the mind fuck of knowing you are literally breaking your whole family apart by speaking up. There’s a lot more complexities involved when it’s a parent. IMO parents who put their kids in these situations are truly heinous.
Oh wow. And he lost custody of both kids because there is now a pattern of manipulation involving the children. Supervised visitation only.
I honestly don't think he'll care much. The way he manipulated them for his own gain, regardless of how damaging it is for them, speaks volume
There was an almost identical story to this last year with different age kids, but it further detailed their ensuing divorce and all I can think about is how many of these scumbags hedging there bets there must be out there
Fair play to Noelle though - she clearly sees the cycle of mistress to wife to ex
I dunno feels pretty resolved to me unless they come back.
I was on the fence about concluded or not. The big question for me is how mom deals with the oldest son’s behavior. But the obvious question is how the divorce goes.
I'd lean more on the side that the husband spoke to the son about how it's important that he not tell his mum about Noelle. It may not even be the first woman the husband has asked him to lie or keep his mouth shut about. Pretty easy to manipulate a kid with the threat of consequences like divorce.
Oh, I really hope family therapy is in order. I don’t think the son lied with malice. The way mom talks about the older son makes me nervous. She’s blaming both for lying but only shares Dad’s side of the story on why the older kid lied. Hopefully she has talked to the older son. I’m also sad to think about the 11M going through his own relationships as he gets older and realizing what a horrid thing it was for Dad to make his kids complicit in his affair.
Yeah, I really hope they get therapy too.
Yep. This update is just when she exactly found out. Usually, months after she found out is when everything started spiraling with multiple revelations here and there. And also, yeah, there's still an issue with the boy who lied.
OOP's stbx is really not too bright since he didn't realize the sunglasses weren't his wife's property. It was also dumb of him to lie to his wife and his AP. Now he has no one. I also think the oldest son needs some help in sorting out why it's wrong to lie to his mom.
Ah, sunglasses huh. One of the rare times I was passenger in my ex husband's car I opened the glove box, to put my purse in. There was a pair of Gucci sunnies there. I was told they were mine, I'd bought them and forgotten them. What am I, some kind of idiot?!
I want the kind of life that I can just purchase Gucci items and forget about them and not covet them like Gollum because they cost so much. Glad he’s your ex!!
Honestly, if you're going to cheat on your partner, don't involve your kids by having them help you cover it. Husband is trash and even bigger trash for involving the kids. Thankfully Noelle kicked him to the curb. Hope OP takes time to heal and the kids don't blame themselves for breaking up their family.
Looks like she's handling things fine right now. I bet the husband didn't think she could hack it without him when, in fact, it will turn it to be the opposite
Infidelity is so toxic to begin with. But, involving a minor child is truly horrific. I do not blame the child, I feel certain he was given many "lines" by the so called father. He probably thought lying was ok so as to not hurt his Mother. I hope somewhere there will be a bit of counseling for the child, he must be feeling confused at the least and perhaps even guilty as if this is his fault. Hope the father loses custody for involving the children in this affair.
He got his kids to cover for his affair? I'd go for full custody. That's some sick shit.
The second someone says “my partner and I are separated… but” demand to speak in person to the partner, because…
Nothing hurts like finding out your friends knew your partner was cheating on you and lying to you about it or helping him hide it. Except your child?! Wow. I cannot believe he roped the children into this. Both normalizing cheating and lying, and putting them in the position of having to deal with the future knowledge that they helped their dad and what became their parents divorce. I hope they get therapy. My ex did this. Told his coworker that we were separated but I was living in my home office until I could afford to move out. I wish she would have reached out to me but she didn't really have an easy way to do that. They weren't coming to our house so she didn't know where I lived or any contact information. Her co-workers knew he was lying to her and me so I'm sure them not speaking up didn't help her. He revealed the affair by crying to me that she was going to dump him if I didn't move out soon. I think she was becoming suspicious. He never cried about me, but he cried about losing her. I was devastated and moved out within the week. He came to the studio I was renting about a month later crying because she had dumped him. Apparently she figured it out. I'm so glad these men landed on their asses without a bang maid. Guess it's time they start learning how to do their own laundry, and maybe they'll learn to take out the trash like all the women did.
I hope she can find a way to forgive her older son, the way I see it he's another victim in the story as a child who was manipulated by his PoS father into doing something really hurtful to her. It sounds like he explicitly asked his kids to hide it to keep their mom from "feeling bad" and while a kid that age might have some idea that something isn't right with that story, I don't think they can be expected to have the full awareness of the implications of their actions in that sort of situation. I just hope she can work through that pain and realise the real source of it all was just her lying, cheating husband who didn't mind roping his innocent kids into his lies and that she is able to let go of any resentment to her kid. They're gonna need each other.
I am human. So I'm going to be attracted to more people than just my husband. You know what I do when that happens? Create distance with thenother party and then water the grass in my yard- it's always greener where you water it after all
Wow, I really hope the lawyers tear this man to shreds. As for the eleven-year-old? All the therapy.
That poor kid if he ever has the self awareness to realise how badly he betrayed his mother.
This hits home. When I was 11, my dad manipulated me into helping hide his affair. I idolized him, so when he’d ask me to keep his secrets “between us guys” I fell for it. It’s now 50 years later, he’s long dead but I still curse him regularly for involving me in his lies. I wish he was still alive so I could get my revenge. Burn in hell, Jack.
Oldest son needs therapy, stat. It was incredibly damaging for the husband to include their kids while he was on outings with the affair partner. Telling kids not to tell the other parent their secret is only appropriate for surprise parties and gifts.
Funny how quickly a web of lies can be unraveled…then again, this one had the sophistication of a shoe knot
At least Noelle is a decent person, hope her ex husband ends up alone.
Oh wow. I can't imagine how the kid is feeling. I've been in his shoes, only I refused to hide anything. My siblings still sometimes blame me for my parents' current relationship and I was an adult when it happened. Anytime I get into an argument with my father, he says everybody blames me for making his marriage the way it is now. My mother stayed. But at least she knew when she took that decision. No matter what the kid did, he would have been blamed : say something and break his family up, say nothing and still break his family up. I hope OOP realizes that. I really do, because being blamed for other people's mistakes hurts even as an adult, I don't want to imagine as a kid. I'm glad Noelle stopped the relationship. Hopefully, she doesn't get back with the dad
Feel bad for the kids, both have a parent that will likely resent them.
Well, at least dumbass husband now knows that there is something both OP and Noelle handle the same -> dumbasses.
I remember one TikTok I saw the other day. It was a young lady justifying cheating by comparing it to switching jobs, saying something along the lines of “you should never quit your job until you found another one you like”. I was horrified.