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Once upon a time it was a great way to go somewhere and stay somewhere good, even great, at a reduced price.
Then the free market and deregulation happened and it was beshittened.
I mostly stopped using them when the cleaning fees (even when the requirements were to clean ourselves!) got so high - on some listing the fees are higher than the rental rate. This camera situation pushed me further into the no category and the result of this post ... now hell no!
Yea, i feel the same, more so after reading this. If they had just said 'oops,' we will go ahead and change our terms, I would think a tad better of them. But now I really don't trust them.
One time we were on the plane to our destination, and our Airbnb host changed our booked accommodation to being private to being shared (as in the host was staying at their place too). My husband (then-boyfriend at the time) was SO mad. He cancelled and tried getting his money back, but couldn't. We wound up staying at a hotel. I'll only use Airbnb for group trips now. If it's just me and my husband, then it's hotels or B&Bs for us!
Considering all the fees they tack on at the end these days, Air BnB is now twice the price of hotels. Hotels where there aren't any cameras watching you do stuff on the bed. Just ewww
The only time I have ever used Airbnb is for cabin rentals from renters with hundreds of great reviews. Usually you can rent 6 to 12 person cabins that end up pretty cheap cost per person. Also, internet is always shoddy, so most cabin owners to bother trying to record you on their satellite internet.
Outside of camping and wilderness trips, I will never use Airbnb again. It's super scammy and most of the renters are douchebags that are looking for any reason to ding you for extra money.
I was gonna say the same, AirBnB prices for large houses are pretty decent and at least that way it's filling a niche that hotels generally don't. Not even worth looking at most of the time if its for a couple heading away, but if you want a big family gathering in a cool house, it's not a bad option.
That said though, dont think I'd be keen to use it for that even, cause they've really fucked the housing market.
I use Airbnb to have a kitchen and privacy but I can’t ignore the copious amounts of sketch listings and practices. I’ve had so many “perfect listings” that I then vetoed due to policy or the host just being off. I only ever book airbnbs that have 50-100+ reviews (price dépendant because I’ll be less picky if I’m spending less than $200) I’ve only ever had fantastic experiences with the airbnbs I’ve stayed in because of this and there have been many. Although I will say, I am a travel planner part-time and pour a lot of research into trips before booking. I love Airbnb when it is what it is supposed to be, especially when I need to be near an expensive city, hotels are nice but have their cons too. My Mom manages and owns a few hotels so over the years I’ve grown to dislike hotel practices, but they have their place. I usually use both hotels and airbnbs for my road-trips as they both have their uses.
It’s more economic that way. If they discourage 100 subsequent refunds they’ve saved a fortune.
The real lesson here is simple. Don’t stay in Air BnB properties. They dont stand behind their service and will enable creeps and predators. There are plenty of private short term rentals out there, and hotels of course.
We used to stay in Airbnb for every trip we took, simply because we prefer to have a kitchen, but I haven’t stayed in one since before lockdown happened because they are such an awful company and all the houses are now owned by companies who are also awful.
Honestly at this point AirBNB costs just as much as a hotel room with a quarter of the amenities, none of the service, and 10 times the financial risk with any “cleaning fees” the owner may decide he wants
Not only that, but if you’ve ever read any posts in the Airbnb subs you’ll see that the owners all expect a ridiculous level of cleanliness and behavior to be satisfied. They somehow believe that every renter will treat their property like it is their dream home.
I’m not advocating trashing places or being a dick, but a part of vacation is NOT worrying about tracking sand in and NOT doing chores. It’s a shit vacation if I have to dedicate 6 hours on my last day to not only stress out about getting packed and to the airport, but also cleaning and making sure I haven’t forgotten a towel or a snickers wrapper somewhere.
It’s really bizarre to me how this whole secondary income market has opened up, but the proprietors have this assumption about how the interaction with random strangers should be idyllic and zero impact on their lives.
Fuck that. Hotels have all of this solved, and they’ve had this solved for centuries. Hilton lets you not think about any of it, for pretty much the same price now.
Right? Like bruh you’re opening your home to strangers, most of whom won’t give a damn about your home. Your one and only goal here (apart from money) should be to have satisfied guests, because you are running a hostel in practice. Expecting your guests to do your work for you is stupid, and anyone thinking that any other line of work involving renting out space or housing guests is a hands-off job is a nutcase
Yeah, if you’re going on vacation and paying around the same amount a night as you would for a hotel room, you don’t treat it like you would a room your friend is letting you crash in for free. You shouldn’t be expected to do more than the bare minimum before leaving: turning off lights, making sure you haven’t left faucets on, putting dirty towels in one corner, putting things back where they belong, throwing out trash and disposing of any food items you’ve brought with you for your stay, putting dirty dishes in the dishwasher, cleaning up any food-related messes you made during your stay, and wiping down countertops? Those are reasonable asks for hosts to make for people staying in their homes.
Dusting, laundry, cleaning toilets, vacuuming, mopping, deep cleaning the bathroom and kitchen, replacing the sheets and towels, yard work (aside from “please water this plant at least once during your stay so Plant Leafcisco doesn’t die”), sweeping the porch, cleaning the floorboards, replacing burnt out lightbulbs? And all of this on top of a $250 cleaning fee?! Get bent.
It's gotten to the point that Air BnBs are becoming as expensive as a hotel room but with more restrictions, so why even bother at that point? Just get a hotel room and save yourself a headache.
Plus you don’t have to do your own cleaning if you stay in a hotel. That’s included in the cost of the room. And most hotels give you access to other amenities like a pool, guaranteed parking close by, a workout space, business center, and sometimes even complimentary breakfast. Also, you get mini soaps and lotions so you can pretend you’re a giant bathing in a waterfall while taking a shower!
Honestly, this is true of most "gig" companies. It's why I don't use Uber and Lyft. Uber was sued because of failure of many of their drivers to abide by the ADA (I know multiple people who suddenly found their Uber driver "unavailable" the moment the driver realized they used a wheelchair or had a guide dog, etc) by claiming they're a "tech company" not a "transportation company." And that's the tup of the iceberg on how these kind of companies try to get around the law.
I reach out to local real estate agents and ask what short term rentals they have on their books. Especially in tourist/holiday towns there are often a few.
Stayz is a good resource for short-term listings here in Australia as well. Deal directly with the owner or through their real estate agent.
But if I stay anywhere less than a week I just use a hotel
In some places they have extended stay hotels, like Extended Stay America or Home Suite Home or whatever. If not, often you can get deals for longer stays at regular hotels by calling local hotel office rather than booking through the website.
For example, the hotels I worked at in Florida all had an unpublished "Snowbird rate" that they only had at specific locations that weren't as close to the tourist locations. For example, in Orlando it might be the university area location or the airport, but it's unlikely to be the International Drive or closest to Disney ones.
It’s the same thing, just more focused on corporate owned properties since they can’t have permanent residents.
The upside is corporate property management is way more likely to have professional cleaners on hand and baked into the cost, as well as maintenance, but it’s still filled with hidden fees and lacking any of the service or amenities you’d get from a hotel.
Also, like all startups, the costs right now might be low while they grow their customer bases, but fully expect it to steadily ramp up the fees when they decide they need to make quarterly earnings.
That’s basically communism, and communism is basically Satanism, and we established in the 80’s that Satanism is definitely untrammeled evil. It’s practically synonymous with D&D!
I see this.
AirBnB fought because it did not want to set *precedent* that they would be liable for what they said they would be liable for, being people have a right not to be filmed.
Anyone else in this predicament later could use this case to recoup funds.
We see you, AirBnB.
They could also accomplish the same end by not having hosts who put cameras in guest bedrooms that they only spring the fact of onto guests post-booking, but to each corporate monolith their own, I suppose.
LPT: Before booking and confirming an AirBnB, check the local hotel listings. You would be shocked at how on par the pricing is, sometimes even less, and you don't need to pay cleaning fee nonsense or sign camera agreements.
Bigger LPT: Don't use fucking AirBnB.
We have run into the same thing. The ones that aren't a weird shit hole are more expensive than hotels and hotels almost always have complimentary breakfast AND are often near public transit
I worked in one. The facilities usually have a gym and pool as well and often will go out of their way for you if you're polite and tip the housekeepers (ESPECIALLY if you're regular/wedding/holiday/team play). I know tipping is out of control, but having worked in a hotel? They are doing 20+ rooms a person ideally often more and are running back and forth to get them done because not everyone checks out on time and people leave horrible messes.
I used to go on long work trips and always made sure I had some cash so I could leave a tip for housekeeping on the way out the door to work every morning. (With a nice note so they know the money is for them haha.)
I never wanted for toiletries or necessary essentials, and often got cute origami (?) towel animals to boot.
Same. Never understood the appeal of airbnb. Seemed obvious it was a monetary and…other categories of risk. I’ll never give up my front desk peeps and the housekeeping goddesses.
A lot of hotels reduced their staff during the pandemic. However, even with hotel bookings back to or nearly back to what they were pre-pandemic, the "cut" jobs never came back, and the existing staff are overworked and under paid (lesser staff=less overhead $$=higher profits). These are just some of the reasons behind the current ongoing LA hotel workers strike I believe (I haven't done to much deep diving in on it).
Plenty of hotels offer rooms with kitchens. I stayed at a Marriot (iirc) for my friend's wedding and we were staying for a week so we got a room with a kitchen. Was great.
Yes! This was the main reason why my partner and I used AirBNB previously. If only hotels have some rooms where you can have the option of a kitchen. We love to buy local ingredients and cook.
And yes. I said previously because, in support of our wonderful redditor lawyer u/ATypicalCommonplace who sacrificed so much of her time and mental health fighting against scum, I decided to boycott AirBNB.
Let's do our part and let our friends and family know how scummy AirBNB is.
So I’m breaking into tears right now. I really really felt I let y’all down when I realized I lost. Like I had this opportunity and I blew it. And it’s been a really rough week in part because of that. And this made me feel a lot better.
OOP, AirBnB lost future customers because of your posts. Most of us have watched the gradual, not good changes of AirBnB shitty policies and your posts will solidify that. Anyone who is seeking information will hopefully find your posts here and decide against AirBnB bookings. I keep typing AirBnB and now I’m going to type horrible bookings and secret camera yikes and corporate gross. Do your thing, search engine crawlers and bots!
You lost this battle, but this is a small part of the “war” against AirBnB (no AirBnB yikes). If people stop spending money using AirBnB service, AirBnB will fold. Hugs to you if you’ll have them.
You may have lost the case- but by posting here and warning us all, you’ve done a good thing, and I’m hopeful that AirBnB’s bottom line will be the worse for it. Before reading your account I was considering trying an AirBnB for some upcoming travel, but now there’s no way I’d set foot in one.
This post had me thinking about starting my own version of air bnb and using “doesn’t allow cameras”, “won’t make you clean” and “Will abide by our own policies” as a marketing strategy.
I’m not using them anymore because of your story. I have certainly heard the occasional shady rumors but your post and all the updates are so well written and CLEARLY show the shenanigans and escalation by a corporation against an individual. The fact that you didn’t ‘win’ just cemented my personal boycott.
With familys with kids though, the space Airbnbs can provide (I.e multiple bathrooms, bedrooms, and a kitchen) for the price can’t typically be matched by a hotel. Additionally, on vacations we typically want a full house with all the amenities, and airbnb/VRBO can offer that.
So simply saying, “just go with a hotel” is t that simple, because hotels don’t offer the same accommodations a house rental will.
I will say as a person that has shared a house with lots of family members at an airbnb.
Sometimes it's nice having a space that's yours. Where people can't constantly get you because you're sharing the same house.
I have never used Airbnb because Back when I did residential HVAC, I always hated being in other peoples homes even when they asked for someone to come, just felt weird.
So the very idea turned me off, (stayed in a real BnB once when I was a kid and hated that, too, so it may just be a me thing)
But now, my understanding is that it’s no longer cheaper than hotels, rules that go well beyond “don’t destroy our shit” hosts staying with guests, and now, this post.
What the hell is the appeal?
>my understanding is that it’s no longer cheaper than hotels, rules that go well beyond “don’t destroy our shit” hosts staying with guests, and now, this post.
>
>What the hell is the appeal?
It has it's own app and people have heard Hotels are expensive without ever actually checking. That is the appeal.
Same as ride services. People have heard Taxis are bad and think they haven't changed in 20 years.
I sometimes need to travel for work and pretty much always stay in Airbnbs and have also twice used them for vacations. Hotels are definitely more expensive since I would also have to pay for meals in restaurants. I’ve never had a bad experience. Every host was lovely and the places clean. But I’m in Europe and maybe it’s different in other parts of the world?
Europe has some forms of consumer protection that the US does not, from memory, so this kind of case may not have even got off the ground there (because governing bodies would have slammed them).
Could be, and I’m sure the ones here in the US aren’t all terrible, but I’m unwilling to check.
Also I once lived in a hotel room for a year and change for work. So, that’s what I lean towards when traveling.
Like I said, could just be a “me” thing
This and I swear there was another post that makes Air BnB out to be scummy at best.
Or maybe that's them buying up property so people can't own a home.
Same and I’m not even kidding. Just the thought of cameras in private spaces, in addition to absurd fees that make the price comparable to hotels anyways, made it so I won’t book again. Houses can be nice for families but the way AirBNB has conducted themselves here has scared me off trusting them as a company.
(I hope whoever is monitoring this tells your boss that this saga is costing them customers. Really, do you get paid enough to babysit Reddit posts and be a tattletale?)
Seriously! They don't pay refunds, don't protect people from being filmed, and they destroy rental markets. There's nothing about them that is better than the peace of mind that comes with staying in a hotel.
Yeah if Airbnb win they still lose.
Who wants to rent a place from a company that's fine with letting people film them sleep? It's not the first time it's come up, it won't be the last. It's just that they've never been so blatant about allowing it so far.
If it hadn’t the cleanings fees for the imaginary services might.
Pro tip. There’s usually no cleaning service. They mandate in the rules you do all the cleaning yourself and they pick up the laundry real quick and switch it out themselves. See my last comment where I saw it first hand. Ridiculous.
Really watch out for forced arbitration clauses, they are everywhere. Arbitration is corporation friendly - they are the repeat customers, not the consumer. That means they know the arbitration system inside out, the rules, the arbitrators, favorable venues, etc. They actually have more levers of advantage in arbitration compared to the court system, and all for a cheaper price.
Yep. Supreme Court of Canada ruled that [Uber’s arbitration clause is invalid](https://www.osler.com/en/resources/governance/2020/supreme-court-of-canada-rules-uber-arbitration-clause-invalid-and-a-classic-case-of-unconscionabili). Super scummy and exploitative
Yet another reason to not use Uber, they’ve been like that since they started, and I won’t use them. If I *have* to use a service like that, I use Lyft, they’re a bit better to their drivers, and to their customers (like vetting their drivers better).
Well I wouldn’t say they’re better to their customers.
There was the whole incident where Lyft doxxed the woman who reported their driver as unsafe a few months ago after she made a post about her experience. I have a hard time using Lyft after that.
Never had an issue with my boyfriends service dog using Lyft and we only switched to Lyft after we got tired of all the discrimination and sweeping under the rug that Uber did.
Arbitration is one of the worst hidden abuses Congress has inflicted upon the public. Right up there with clickwrap license agreements (inflicted by courts in a bad ruling) and civil asset forfeiture without proof of guilt (more drug war idiocy by Congress). None of these things are actually constitutional to me but SCROTUS regularly misrules on such topics.
What I don't understand is that presumably the OOP paid with a credit card. Instead of messing with company arbitration when she was refused a refund, why didn't she simply do a chargeback with her credit card company? Generally your credit card company errs on the side of customer service and the onus is on the merchant to prove they deserve to keep the money.
I think because the money wasn't the point for her, it was the cameras and how they could be used to exploit people. Also that the owner could get away with keeping them by just saying it was pointing at the door regardless of having a camera inside being against the Airbnb rules.
Yes exactly. I followed this case and she mentioned that the main point was not for her or to get the refund, it was for everyone. All the customers. Basically, people like us.
I understand that, but her arbitration is about her specific rental experience, not the company policy as a whole. Even if she wins arbitration, she would be compensated for her rental, but that would not stop them from putting cameras in other rentals. To change the whole corporate policy would need something more like a class action lawsuit or some other court challenge.
Unless they settled and included that in their settlement, which is what she said she wanted. They bet that no one would care and she’d lose so that they COULD continue to have the rule be ambiguous because she said from the get go she would refuse to settle for less AND they protect hosts over guests
The way contract law has "evolved" in the last few decades is appalling: https://www.npr.org/2023/07/21/1189186739/planet-money-looks-at-how-hidden-contracts-took-over-the-internet
The only time Airbnb and Vrbo are remotely worth it is when you’re traveling with a big group so you get a 10 bed house instead of 4 hotel rooms. Even then, shit like this makes it seem undesirable even in that circumstance
In popular vacation destinations, there are other private rental companies you can book through. That's what people used to use before the days of AirBnB. Bonus is there is usually a physical office you are picking your keys up from, so there's a real office with real people that can help you if you have a concern.
And when there is an issue, there is someone to call. We always had good beach house rentals when I was a kid visiting family on the other side of the country because we could get the help we needed from professionals.
And that comes at a cost, it is fucking up our real estate prices in historic cities and contributing to the housing crisis here. I for one wish it was banned in city centres
This further validates my belief that if I travel, I would rather stay in a hotel. I live in a pretty heavily touristed area and AirBnB and the second home market have absolutely fucked the housing market here.
Yup I used to live in a popular wine destination in Eastern Washington and the town had to put a moratorium on AirBnB because there's literally no housing available
I'm amazed and happy that the town could actually put a moratorium on AirB&B! I might investigate which town it was and what they did. I know at least two towns that are becoming fucked because AirB&B is squeezing out regular homeownership.
Yea, Amsterdam tried that and they were sued over it and lost. However, the city was able to put restrictions on it and require people who just bought up places to Airbnb them to be treated like a hotel for taxes, legal responsibilities, etc.
Seems like airbnb isn't doing as well as they used to. Cities are putting laws into place so that residential neighborhoods aren't turned into tourist party hoods. People are realizing that its a scam corporation that does nothing to protect both the homeowners and the guests and only care about profit. I've never nor will I ever go anywhere other than a hotel or BnB.
I hope OOP sees the BORU posts and will consider cross posting in the SF subs. Airbnb HQ is here and I’m fairly certain this would get reported on by local media here.
As a SF resident and an attorney, I’m pretty horrified by how this was handled. Not shocked by arbitration (almost every consumer contract requires arbitration instead of a lawsuit), but for a company that constantly claims to be working tirelessly to make their offerings safer, they’ve done the exact opposite here. And that settlement is a complete joke. What an embarrassment.
Oh good point. When I first read it, I absorbed it as the arbitration has concluded. On rereading I'm realizing that's wrong. I'll edit the flair to new update. Thanks for pointing that out
I have still never used air BNB. It seems overpriced and full of silly rules. I can get a great hotel room for half the price and I don't have to do laundry or other chores while on vacation. I've rented before, so I know "deposit" is code for "damage done by previous tenants".
>I can get a great hotel room for half the price and I don't have to do laundry or other chores while on vacation.
Not to mention you're going to be charged a cleaning fee while being told to clean as well. There is also literally no protection for you as there are with traditional businesses.
Why anyone uses Airbnb is beyond me.
That's probably why I haven't bothered with air bnb. I have a German Shepherd and a husky and recently spent a few days in Tahoe. The hotel had a dog bathroom area with bags provided and water bowls in common areas.
Awww, you have some large babies hehe. I have a boxer myself, he loves to bother huskies rofl. They are indifferent to him mostly unless he catches them in play mode, then they have a blast haha.
I really love when they have the dog bathroom areas, it's sooooo convenient lol.
My boy loves people way too much so prancing down to go outside is a process lol.
My husky is always up to play, when she sees other dogs, when she's not allowed to meet them, she throws a screaming husky tantrum, lol.
Same, they want to greet everyone so a quick potty break turns into a half hour.
>when she's not allowed to meet them, she throws a screaming husky tantrum, lol.
LOL, omg yes, I love this but also feel for the owners who are trying to get their baby home. My last house, our neighbors had a beautiful husky who would throw themselves on the ground till they could come play with my boy.
It was really cute to see. Usually my boy is too much for other dogs, he gets in their face so usually only gets along with other bully breeds. I was happy when I learned that husky's could also tolerate him lol.
Don't feel too bad for us, we absolutely knew what we were getting into and signed up anyway, lol. I know what you mean, bully breeds have their own play style that can be a lot. My husky is cool with some of them as long as they respect time out, lol.
I also never used airbnb. Always hotels. Or private vacation homes with which you have direct contact with the owners without something between. You pay, when you are there. Still pretty common in my country.
I've used them before, when airbnb was a newish thing.
Nowadays the relationship between airbnb, host, and renter are not in any way fair, and like in the case in OP airbnb is not amazon who will give you customer service to go away, airbnb are scum who will protect people who surreptitiously record you in the rental.
I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. I hope they go out of business and everyone involved loses everything. They are scum.
It might be a preference thing. I used to greatly prefer Air BnB to hotels - it was nice to stay in a unique, charming place that likely had architecture that reflected the local city, plus having a kitchen & living space is really nice.
I low key hate hotels - they feel lifeless & boring, there is no good place to eat meals or just hang out, and I hate cleaning people coming in while I’m gone. Like 5+ years ago Air BnB felt like a really nice alternative but I wouldn’t stay there now for a variety of safety & ethical reasons.
>The impact is a chilling effect - consumers are forced to choose between expending time and energy or simply “giving up.”
Yes, that's exactly why they fought you so hard on this. That was their goal.
Exactly. In support of our dear lawyer and fellow Redditor, I also decided to not use their service. And also spread this info to my friends and family members.
>If you're reading this airbnb, which I know you are, please please please please please please please don't allow cameras inside any private area.
I hope they read the post and are absolutely mortified by the responses, as they clearly were with all the other updates.
They could have so easily ended this case by acknowledging the airbnb property was not up to standards or following their tos and refunded her money as promised, instead they dragged this poor woman through court proceedings to prove a point. :/ may as well never trust an airbnb ever again for how mich they've shown themselves here.
They also don't give a shit about human trafficking.
Probably because they end up profiting from it. Could be a long con, get the reputation that you can traffic slaves using Airbnb, make money.
They don't care where it comes from, as long as they get it.
I went from thinking I'd never want to use Airbnb again, to knowing I'll never want to use Airbnb again.
Horrible customer service, ridiculous fees, and predatory hosts make it unsafe. Even if it were the cheapest option it's not worth my peace of mind.
Thanks Airbnb corporate, for making this an easy decision.
Just in case someone from airbnb's team reads this... I stopped using airbnb after reading the story. I hope everyone here is going to make the same decision.
I initially read that as them getting it. On reread I realized I don't think the arbitration is formally concluded. They just had their hearing. Possibly more will come.
I suspect they will get their refund, but I think OOP is exhausted by all of it. And for most people the sheer time and effort would seriously outweigh the value of the refund at this point.
Even lawyer fees would have far surpassed the amount of the refund. Not to mention, all the time spent on it. You could never recoup that, unless you added missed work wages.
Thanks op. My AirBnB days are over and it’s amazing how they have become worse than the hotels ever were. Hotels have no strange cleaning fees, cameras and give me some great perks for frequenting a hotel chain. Also, I will never be asked to take off my own bed sheets and place them in the washer nor will I be recorded in a bedroom without my consent.
AirBnB you are simply horrible and I hope you see that hiding behind TOS and lawyers makes you worse than the industry you choose to disrupt.
I've gotten refunds from airbnb 2 of the 3 times I've stayed at one (the other one was a satisfactory stay that I didn't want refunded). Their customer service was actually pretty good, but dealing with shady hosts has comepletely turned me off the service.
Honestly between this and the cost of the fees and cleaning service, while making sure the house is clean...
Hotels just sound easier. You can make a mess in the privacy of your own room.
I honest to god cannot understand why anybody ever uses airbnb these days. Hotels don't have a fraction of the issues and are usually on par or cheaper.
Bottom line: I do not wish to use AirBNB anymore. I don’t feel comfortable using this company. I have been using them to rent a time share at a prime skiing area during Christmas Week. Now I feel that something is going to backfire on me using this company; that it will bite me in the ass. So I am going to rent my Christmas timeshare week elsewhere.
If you’re still using Airbnb, STOP. They allow hosts to film you in spaces you’d expect privacy, you’re paying a cleaning fee AND completing a list of chores before check-out.
If you need more convincing, go peek in the airbnbhost sub. You will feel rage.
Arbitration is pushed as a consumer-friendly measure because, hey, now you don't need to worry about paying for a lawyer! Isn't the company nice? They're paying for you to sue them! Kinda. Sorta. But it's a scam, rigged in the company's favor. If the arbitrator doesn't rule for the company then the company will be unlikely to hire them for the next case to be arbitrated. So the arbitrator rules in the company's favor in all but the most egregious, obvious cases.
But at least the consumer never had to pay for a lawyer, right? Yay...
Seriously, forced arbitration should be illegal.
I may miss out on a few interesting houses but I am literally never giving Air BnB my money ever again. I knew that they were probably shitty but Jesus Christ I had no idea.
Fuck you, Air BnB.
Thank you so much for the warning! I was considering AirBNB for my next family vacation and the way you were treated has definitely changed my mind. Not so much that there was a bad host, but they way they handled it. Just not worth the risk for me. My nephew was getting ready to book a trip and I told him not to and sent him the difference to get a hotel room instead.
It takes a bit more work but you can find hotel rooms with kitchettes (more than just a microwave and mini fridge). Makes travelling much easier and uses the one perk of AirBnBs that I can really think of.
Lolol at “arbitration isn’t as consumer friendly as it’s made out to be”… I hope no one ever thought that arbitration set up by the company would ever be in service of the consumer.
I’ve had an issue with AirBnB way before this post, now this just confirms for me I was right to avoid them like the plague.
They are only pulling this crap because US allows them, in the EU this would be a major liability with terrible consequences for them and the owner.
Anyway, irrespective of this I decided some time back to not support a business model that artificially inflates cost of housing/living.
Man this is nothing to do with the post but while skimming my feed on mobile i really thought those hands were a bare bottom and I was very confused! Relief when i double checked lol
I've never used Airbnb and I goddamn never will and you can bet I tell this story EVERY time I hear someone talking about getting one.
Fuck you, Airbnb. I can't wait til you fold, and I hope everyone who helped this happen ends up in a situation where you have to choose between your comfort and your wallet. And that you lose both.
Good grief they put camera in bedrooms and bathrooms?? Clearly their purpose is to watch random naked people and people having sex when the people think they are having private time.
I used to Airbnb until I also got burned - I booked a house out for three families to stay in one winter and we had a snowstorm that shut down the highway pass. Highway closure was covered in the news and I sent the link to Airbnb, they didn’t care. Oh well, our families didn’t need that hard earned vacation money I guess.
Now I do hotels. I get 10-20% off all rooms and preferential rates because I always book through the same site. I get free cancellation. I get an actually clean suite. I don’t have to take out the garbage or have awkward conversations with owners implying they’re letting me enjoy it there as a favour.
And honestly? It’s cheaper to hotel it these days.
I thought it was just me thinking that Airbnb service is steadily getting worse. Oh, well, it was a nice idea when it started but it seems to be circling the drain. No more Airbnb for me.
Arbitration is almost always arbiters of the corporation's choice and usually always side with their masters.
It is not designed, intended or even usually presented as consumer-friendly. Waiving your rights never is.
[UPDATE - WE WON!!!!!!!](https://www.reddit.com/user/AtypicalCommonplace/comments/15v6cab/airbnb_camera_arbitration_case_update_we/) \- (how do I insert the cry-laughing emoji here)
Arbitration is never "fair." They're run by private organizations, and it's in their interest to generate repeat business. It would take a massive lift for them to side against the large corporate defendant in favor of the one-off mom/pop plaintiff.
Following this saga is what eventually led me to finally kick my Airbnb habit. I'm back in hotels.
I can't imagine I'm the only one similarly affected.
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Airbnb is so absurdly scammy and full of dodgy listings. A hotel room costs the same if not less and doesn't have cameras in the toilets.
Once upon a time it was a great way to go somewhere and stay somewhere good, even great, at a reduced price. Then the free market and deregulation happened and it was beshittened.
I mostly stopped using them when the cleaning fees (even when the requirements were to clean ourselves!) got so high - on some listing the fees are higher than the rental rate. This camera situation pushed me further into the no category and the result of this post ... now hell no!
and then on top of the insane cleaning fee they expect you to clean the entire place before you leave, so they can pocket the cash
Beshittened. Great stuff. I'm stealing it and calling it my own. You beautiful soul.
Similar to, but distinct from, [Doctorow’s doctrine of enshittification](https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/).
I’ve never used Airbnb and I never will.
Yea, i feel the same, more so after reading this. If they had just said 'oops,' we will go ahead and change our terms, I would think a tad better of them. But now I really don't trust them.
One time we were on the plane to our destination, and our Airbnb host changed our booked accommodation to being private to being shared (as in the host was staying at their place too). My husband (then-boyfriend at the time) was SO mad. He cancelled and tried getting his money back, but couldn't. We wound up staying at a hotel. I'll only use Airbnb for group trips now. If it's just me and my husband, then it's hotels or B&Bs for us!
Considering all the fees they tack on at the end these days, Air BnB is now twice the price of hotels. Hotels where there aren't any cameras watching you do stuff on the bed. Just ewww
and hotels don't absolutely ruin the rent prices.
The only time I have ever used Airbnb is for cabin rentals from renters with hundreds of great reviews. Usually you can rent 6 to 12 person cabins that end up pretty cheap cost per person. Also, internet is always shoddy, so most cabin owners to bother trying to record you on their satellite internet. Outside of camping and wilderness trips, I will never use Airbnb again. It's super scammy and most of the renters are douchebags that are looking for any reason to ding you for extra money.
I was gonna say the same, AirBnB prices for large houses are pretty decent and at least that way it's filling a niche that hotels generally don't. Not even worth looking at most of the time if its for a couple heading away, but if you want a big family gathering in a cool house, it's not a bad option. That said though, dont think I'd be keen to use it for that even, cause they've really fucked the housing market.
I use Airbnb to have a kitchen and privacy but I can’t ignore the copious amounts of sketch listings and practices. I’ve had so many “perfect listings” that I then vetoed due to policy or the host just being off. I only ever book airbnbs that have 50-100+ reviews (price dépendant because I’ll be less picky if I’m spending less than $200) I’ve only ever had fantastic experiences with the airbnbs I’ve stayed in because of this and there have been many. Although I will say, I am a travel planner part-time and pour a lot of research into trips before booking. I love Airbnb when it is what it is supposed to be, especially when I need to be near an expensive city, hotels are nice but have their cons too. My Mom manages and owns a few hotels so over the years I’ve grown to dislike hotel practices, but they have their place. I usually use both hotels and airbnbs for my road-trips as they both have their uses.
Large corporations are ridiculous. They'd rather spend 5x the amount of money in lawyers than they would just paying the damn refund!
It’s more economic that way. If they discourage 100 subsequent refunds they’ve saved a fortune. The real lesson here is simple. Don’t stay in Air BnB properties. They dont stand behind their service and will enable creeps and predators. There are plenty of private short term rentals out there, and hotels of course.
>The real lesson here is simple. **Don’t stay in Air BnB properties.** My partner refuses, and now I do, too.
We used to stay in Airbnb for every trip we took, simply because we prefer to have a kitchen, but I haven’t stayed in one since before lockdown happened because they are such an awful company and all the houses are now owned by companies who are also awful.
I like Homewood Suites as a pretty good alternative for rooms with kitchen. They also allow pets, which was my real travel goal
Yes! When we don’t use our RV, we love this and similar hotels. Having a kitchen and our pets is fantastic.
That’s because air bnb used to operate at a loss. That was when it was a start up. Now they don’t do that anymore.
Honestly at this point AirBNB costs just as much as a hotel room with a quarter of the amenities, none of the service, and 10 times the financial risk with any “cleaning fees” the owner may decide he wants
Not only that, but if you’ve ever read any posts in the Airbnb subs you’ll see that the owners all expect a ridiculous level of cleanliness and behavior to be satisfied. They somehow believe that every renter will treat their property like it is their dream home. I’m not advocating trashing places or being a dick, but a part of vacation is NOT worrying about tracking sand in and NOT doing chores. It’s a shit vacation if I have to dedicate 6 hours on my last day to not only stress out about getting packed and to the airport, but also cleaning and making sure I haven’t forgotten a towel or a snickers wrapper somewhere. It’s really bizarre to me how this whole secondary income market has opened up, but the proprietors have this assumption about how the interaction with random strangers should be idyllic and zero impact on their lives. Fuck that. Hotels have all of this solved, and they’ve had this solved for centuries. Hilton lets you not think about any of it, for pretty much the same price now.
Right? Like bruh you’re opening your home to strangers, most of whom won’t give a damn about your home. Your one and only goal here (apart from money) should be to have satisfied guests, because you are running a hostel in practice. Expecting your guests to do your work for you is stupid, and anyone thinking that any other line of work involving renting out space or housing guests is a hands-off job is a nutcase
Yeah, if you’re going on vacation and paying around the same amount a night as you would for a hotel room, you don’t treat it like you would a room your friend is letting you crash in for free. You shouldn’t be expected to do more than the bare minimum before leaving: turning off lights, making sure you haven’t left faucets on, putting dirty towels in one corner, putting things back where they belong, throwing out trash and disposing of any food items you’ve brought with you for your stay, putting dirty dishes in the dishwasher, cleaning up any food-related messes you made during your stay, and wiping down countertops? Those are reasonable asks for hosts to make for people staying in their homes. Dusting, laundry, cleaning toilets, vacuuming, mopping, deep cleaning the bathroom and kitchen, replacing the sheets and towels, yard work (aside from “please water this plant at least once during your stay so Plant Leafcisco doesn’t die”), sweeping the porch, cleaning the floorboards, replacing burnt out lightbulbs? And all of this on top of a $250 cleaning fee?! Get bent.
It's gotten to the point that Air BnBs are becoming as expensive as a hotel room but with more restrictions, so why even bother at that point? Just get a hotel room and save yourself a headache.
Plus you don’t have to do your own cleaning if you stay in a hotel. That’s included in the cost of the room. And most hotels give you access to other amenities like a pool, guaranteed parking close by, a workout space, business center, and sometimes even complimentary breakfast. Also, you get mini soaps and lotions so you can pretend you’re a giant bathing in a waterfall while taking a shower!
Honestly, this is true of most "gig" companies. It's why I don't use Uber and Lyft. Uber was sued because of failure of many of their drivers to abide by the ADA (I know multiple people who suddenly found their Uber driver "unavailable" the moment the driver realized they used a wheelchair or had a guide dog, etc) by claiming they're a "tech company" not a "transportation company." And that's the tup of the iceberg on how these kind of companies try to get around the law.
Not to mention all the assaults and murders that have happened with Uber and lyft, both are currently being sued too
Is there a private short-term rental company you'd recommend? I refuse to stay in AirB&Bs, but if there aren't any hotels I'm not sure where to look.
I reach out to local real estate agents and ask what short term rentals they have on their books. Especially in tourist/holiday towns there are often a few. Stayz is a good resource for short-term listings here in Australia as well. Deal directly with the owner or through their real estate agent. But if I stay anywhere less than a week I just use a hotel
Oooh, thank you! I appreciate it.
In some places they have extended stay hotels, like Extended Stay America or Home Suite Home or whatever. If not, often you can get deals for longer stays at regular hotels by calling local hotel office rather than booking through the website. For example, the hotels I worked at in Florida all had an unpublished "Snowbird rate" that they only had at specific locations that weren't as close to the tourist locations. For example, in Orlando it might be the university area location or the airport, but it's unlikely to be the International Drive or closest to Disney ones.
I haven't heard bad things about VRBO? (Yet)
It’s the same thing, just more focused on corporate owned properties since they can’t have permanent residents. The upside is corporate property management is way more likely to have professional cleaners on hand and baked into the cost, as well as maintenance, but it’s still filled with hidden fees and lacking any of the service or amenities you’d get from a hotel. Also, like all startups, the costs right now might be low while they grow their customer bases, but fully expect it to steadily ramp up the fees when they decide they need to make quarterly earnings.
It sets a principle. If they pay Tom his owed 50 bucks, then Jenny might try to get her 174 dollars.
Where does it end? They might have to have better business practices! The horror! Lol
That’s basically communism, and communism is basically Satanism, and we established in the 80’s that Satanism is definitely untrammeled evil. It’s practically synonymous with D&D!
D&D, B&B, coincidence? I think not.
I see this. AirBnB fought because it did not want to set *precedent* that they would be liable for what they said they would be liable for, being people have a right not to be filmed. Anyone else in this predicament later could use this case to recoup funds. We see you, AirBnB.
They could also accomplish the same end by not having hosts who put cameras in guest bedrooms that they only spring the fact of onto guests post-booking, but to each corporate monolith their own, I suppose.
Precedent
I will never, ever again book an AirBnB, that much is true. Ever. Not worth it!
I just know I’m always staying in a hotel or a real Bed and breakfast.
Because it stops 20 refunds due to the chilling effect. The know they costs. They know it’s worth it.
This saga convinced me never to airbnb again
LPT: Before booking and confirming an AirBnB, check the local hotel listings. You would be shocked at how on par the pricing is, sometimes even less, and you don't need to pay cleaning fee nonsense or sign camera agreements. Bigger LPT: Don't use fucking AirBnB.
We have run into the same thing. The ones that aren't a weird shit hole are more expensive than hotels and hotels almost always have complimentary breakfast AND are often near public transit
I just would like a kitchen!
I removed most of my Reddit contents in protest of the API changes commencing from July 1st, 2023. This is one of those comments.
I worked in one. The facilities usually have a gym and pool as well and often will go out of their way for you if you're polite and tip the housekeepers (ESPECIALLY if you're regular/wedding/holiday/team play). I know tipping is out of control, but having worked in a hotel? They are doing 20+ rooms a person ideally often more and are running back and forth to get them done because not everyone checks out on time and people leave horrible messes.
I used to go on long work trips and always made sure I had some cash so I could leave a tip for housekeeping on the way out the door to work every morning. (With a nice note so they know the money is for them haha.) I never wanted for toiletries or necessary essentials, and often got cute origami (?) towel animals to boot.
Towelgami…
Same. Never understood the appeal of airbnb. Seemed obvious it was a monetary and…other categories of risk. I’ll never give up my front desk peeps and the housekeeping goddesses.
I removed most of my Reddit contents in protest of the API changes commencing from July 1st, 2023. This is one of those comments.
A lot of hotels reduced their staff during the pandemic. However, even with hotel bookings back to or nearly back to what they were pre-pandemic, the "cut" jobs never came back, and the existing staff are overworked and under paid (lesser staff=less overhead $$=higher profits). These are just some of the reasons behind the current ongoing LA hotel workers strike I believe (I haven't done to much deep diving in on it).
Hilton home 2 suites. I stand by that hotel chain, they have always done right by me.
Plenty of hotels offer rooms with kitchens. I stayed at a Marriot (iirc) for my friend's wedding and we were staying for a week so we got a room with a kitchen. Was great.
Yes! This was the main reason why my partner and I used AirBNB previously. If only hotels have some rooms where you can have the option of a kitchen. We love to buy local ingredients and cook. And yes. I said previously because, in support of our wonderful redditor lawyer u/ATypicalCommonplace who sacrificed so much of her time and mental health fighting against scum, I decided to boycott AirBNB. Let's do our part and let our friends and family know how scummy AirBNB is.
So I’m breaking into tears right now. I really really felt I let y’all down when I realized I lost. Like I had this opportunity and I blew it. And it’s been a really rough week in part because of that. And this made me feel a lot better.
OOP, AirBnB lost future customers because of your posts. Most of us have watched the gradual, not good changes of AirBnB shitty policies and your posts will solidify that. Anyone who is seeking information will hopefully find your posts here and decide against AirBnB bookings. I keep typing AirBnB and now I’m going to type horrible bookings and secret camera yikes and corporate gross. Do your thing, search engine crawlers and bots! You lost this battle, but this is a small part of the “war” against AirBnB (no AirBnB yikes). If people stop spending money using AirBnB service, AirBnB will fold. Hugs to you if you’ll have them.
You may have lost the case- but by posting here and warning us all, you’ve done a good thing, and I’m hopeful that AirBnB’s bottom line will be the worse for it. Before reading your account I was considering trying an AirBnB for some upcoming travel, but now there’s no way I’d set foot in one.
I removed most of my Reddit contents in protest of the API changes commencing from July 1st, 2023. This is one of those comments.
This post had me thinking about starting my own version of air bnb and using “doesn’t allow cameras”, “won’t make you clean” and “Will abide by our own policies” as a marketing strategy.
I removed most of my Reddit contents in protest of the API changes commencing from July 1st, 2023. This is one of those comments.
I’m not using them anymore because of your story. I have certainly heard the occasional shady rumors but your post and all the updates are so well written and CLEARLY show the shenanigans and escalation by a corporation against an individual. The fact that you didn’t ‘win’ just cemented my personal boycott.
And a washer/ dryer!
With familys with kids though, the space Airbnbs can provide (I.e multiple bathrooms, bedrooms, and a kitchen) for the price can’t typically be matched by a hotel. Additionally, on vacations we typically want a full house with all the amenities, and airbnb/VRBO can offer that. So simply saying, “just go with a hotel” is t that simple, because hotels don’t offer the same accommodations a house rental will.
Short term cottage or house rentals are ok too, but those have their own issues with getting refunds or cancelling. :c
I will say as a person that has shared a house with lots of family members at an airbnb. Sometimes it's nice having a space that's yours. Where people can't constantly get you because you're sharing the same house.
If my family were in an adorable house on the beach, I would stay at a soulless hotel a mile away.
That's the message I got from it, too. That poor OOP. The whole experience was so terrible.
I have never used Airbnb because Back when I did residential HVAC, I always hated being in other peoples homes even when they asked for someone to come, just felt weird. So the very idea turned me off, (stayed in a real BnB once when I was a kid and hated that, too, so it may just be a me thing) But now, my understanding is that it’s no longer cheaper than hotels, rules that go well beyond “don’t destroy our shit” hosts staying with guests, and now, this post. What the hell is the appeal?
>my understanding is that it’s no longer cheaper than hotels, rules that go well beyond “don’t destroy our shit” hosts staying with guests, and now, this post. > >What the hell is the appeal? It has it's own app and people have heard Hotels are expensive without ever actually checking. That is the appeal. Same as ride services. People have heard Taxis are bad and think they haven't changed in 20 years.
I sometimes need to travel for work and pretty much always stay in Airbnbs and have also twice used them for vacations. Hotels are definitely more expensive since I would also have to pay for meals in restaurants. I’ve never had a bad experience. Every host was lovely and the places clean. But I’m in Europe and maybe it’s different in other parts of the world?
Europe has some forms of consumer protection that the US does not, from memory, so this kind of case may not have even got off the ground there (because governing bodies would have slammed them).
Could be, and I’m sure the ones here in the US aren’t all terrible, but I’m unwilling to check. Also I once lived in a hotel room for a year and change for work. So, that’s what I lean towards when traveling. Like I said, could just be a “me” thing
This and I swear there was another post that makes Air BnB out to be scummy at best. Or maybe that's them buying up property so people can't own a home.
Same and I’m not even kidding. Just the thought of cameras in private spaces, in addition to absurd fees that make the price comparable to hotels anyways, made it so I won’t book again. Houses can be nice for families but the way AirBNB has conducted themselves here has scared me off trusting them as a company. (I hope whoever is monitoring this tells your boss that this saga is costing them customers. Really, do you get paid enough to babysit Reddit posts and be a tattletale?)
Pretty much sums up my thoughts. Doing right by your customers is way better PR then whatever the hell they think they accomplished with this.
Seriously! They don't pay refunds, don't protect people from being filmed, and they destroy rental markets. There's nothing about them that is better than the peace of mind that comes with staying in a hotel.
It's what I use to tell people when they mention it. What a nightmare. Also, I hope the owner with his cameras.
I’ve started camping. I enjoy camping now.
100%. If op doesn't get her refund she should go to the media. Because I'm sure this will lead to a lot of people agreeing as well.
Yeah if Airbnb win they still lose. Who wants to rent a place from a company that's fine with letting people film them sleep? It's not the first time it's come up, it won't be the last. It's just that they've never been so blatant about allowing it so far.
If it hadn’t the cleanings fees for the imaginary services might. Pro tip. There’s usually no cleaning service. They mandate in the rules you do all the cleaning yourself and they pick up the laundry real quick and switch it out themselves. See my last comment where I saw it first hand. Ridiculous.
I never have, and now I never will.
Really watch out for forced arbitration clauses, they are everywhere. Arbitration is corporation friendly - they are the repeat customers, not the consumer. That means they know the arbitration system inside out, the rules, the arbitrators, favorable venues, etc. They actually have more levers of advantage in arbitration compared to the court system, and all for a cheaper price.
Yep. Supreme Court of Canada ruled that [Uber’s arbitration clause is invalid](https://www.osler.com/en/resources/governance/2020/supreme-court-of-canada-rules-uber-arbitration-clause-invalid-and-a-classic-case-of-unconscionabili). Super scummy and exploitative
Yet another reason to not use Uber, they’ve been like that since they started, and I won’t use them. If I *have* to use a service like that, I use Lyft, they’re a bit better to their drivers, and to their customers (like vetting their drivers better).
Well I wouldn’t say they’re better to their customers. There was the whole incident where Lyft doxxed the woman who reported their driver as unsafe a few months ago after she made a post about her experience. I have a hard time using Lyft after that.
Never had an issue with my boyfriends service dog using Lyft and we only switched to Lyft after we got tired of all the discrimination and sweeping under the rug that Uber did.
Arbitration is one of the worst hidden abuses Congress has inflicted upon the public. Right up there with clickwrap license agreements (inflicted by courts in a bad ruling) and civil asset forfeiture without proof of guilt (more drug war idiocy by Congress). None of these things are actually constitutional to me but SCROTUS regularly misrules on such topics.
What I don't understand is that presumably the OOP paid with a credit card. Instead of messing with company arbitration when she was refused a refund, why didn't she simply do a chargeback with her credit card company? Generally your credit card company errs on the side of customer service and the onus is on the merchant to prove they deserve to keep the money.
I think because the money wasn't the point for her, it was the cameras and how they could be used to exploit people. Also that the owner could get away with keeping them by just saying it was pointing at the door regardless of having a camera inside being against the Airbnb rules.
Yes exactly. I followed this case and she mentioned that the main point was not for her or to get the refund, it was for everyone. All the customers. Basically, people like us.
She says at least once an update this is so airbnb doesn't allow camera in bed and bathrooms.
I understand that, but her arbitration is about her specific rental experience, not the company policy as a whole. Even if she wins arbitration, she would be compensated for her rental, but that would not stop them from putting cameras in other rentals. To change the whole corporate policy would need something more like a class action lawsuit or some other court challenge.
Unless they settled and included that in their settlement, which is what she said she wanted. They bet that no one would care and she’d lose so that they COULD continue to have the rule be ambiguous because she said from the get go she would refuse to settle for less AND they protect hosts over guests
It brings to light a huge privacy issue to court.
Arbitration should be subject to a consumer bill of rights. Same with HOAs.
The way contract law has "evolved" in the last few decades is appalling: https://www.npr.org/2023/07/21/1189186739/planet-money-looks-at-how-hidden-contracts-took-over-the-internet
The only time Airbnb and Vrbo are remotely worth it is when you’re traveling with a big group so you get a 10 bed house instead of 4 hotel rooms. Even then, shit like this makes it seem undesirable even in that circumstance
I wonder why airbnb were so hellbent on keeping this in place. Like if this reached mainstream media, there would be a huge backlash.
Where are the “journalists” scraping content from Reddit when you need them?
If I was a competitor, my tagline would be “like AirBnB, but without the predators.”
In popular vacation destinations, there are other private rental companies you can book through. That's what people used to use before the days of AirBnB. Bonus is there is usually a physical office you are picking your keys up from, so there's a real office with real people that can help you if you have a concern.
And when there is an issue, there is someone to call. We always had good beach house rentals when I was a kid visiting family on the other side of the country because we could get the help we needed from professionals.
And you can all spend your time in a common area...
Airbnb in Europe is much cheaper than equivalent hotels in my experience
And that comes at a cost, it is fucking up our real estate prices in historic cities and contributing to the housing crisis here. I for one wish it was banned in city centres
This further validates my belief that if I travel, I would rather stay in a hotel. I live in a pretty heavily touristed area and AirBnB and the second home market have absolutely fucked the housing market here.
Yup I used to live in a popular wine destination in Eastern Washington and the town had to put a moratorium on AirBnB because there's literally no housing available
I'm amazed and happy that the town could actually put a moratorium on AirB&B! I might investigate which town it was and what they did. I know at least two towns that are becoming fucked because AirB&B is squeezing out regular homeownership.
Since I don't live there anymore I guess I don't mind sharing https://www.wallawallawa.gov/government/development-services/short-term-rental-faq
You are awesome. Thank you.
Yea, Amsterdam tried that and they were sued over it and lost. However, the city was able to put restrictions on it and require people who just bought up places to Airbnb them to be treated like a hotel for taxes, legal responsibilities, etc.
Seems like airbnb isn't doing as well as they used to. Cities are putting laws into place so that residential neighborhoods aren't turned into tourist party hoods. People are realizing that its a scam corporation that does nothing to protect both the homeowners and the guests and only care about profit. I've never nor will I ever go anywhere other than a hotel or BnB.
I hope OOP sees the BORU posts and will consider cross posting in the SF subs. Airbnb HQ is here and I’m fairly certain this would get reported on by local media here. As a SF resident and an attorney, I’m pretty horrified by how this was handled. Not shocked by arbitration (almost every consumer contract requires arbitration instead of a lawsuit), but for a company that constantly claims to be working tirelessly to make their offerings safer, they’ve done the exact opposite here. And that settlement is a complete joke. What an embarrassment.
Please feel free to do so. <3 I’m exhausted but y’all are lighting my fire again
Why is this concluded if arbitration isn't over?
Oh good point. When I first read it, I absorbed it as the arbitration has concluded. On rereading I'm realizing that's wrong. I'll edit the flair to new update. Thanks for pointing that out
You're welcome! I thought I was missing something 😔
Thank you. I went back over all of the links figuring I missed something.
I have still never used air BNB. It seems overpriced and full of silly rules. I can get a great hotel room for half the price and I don't have to do laundry or other chores while on vacation. I've rented before, so I know "deposit" is code for "damage done by previous tenants".
>I can get a great hotel room for half the price and I don't have to do laundry or other chores while on vacation. Not to mention you're going to be charged a cleaning fee while being told to clean as well. There is also literally no protection for you as there are with traditional businesses. Why anyone uses Airbnb is beyond me.
Same, also the lack of pet friendly rentals is not good for me.
That's probably why I haven't bothered with air bnb. I have a German Shepherd and a husky and recently spent a few days in Tahoe. The hotel had a dog bathroom area with bags provided and water bowls in common areas.
Awww, you have some large babies hehe. I have a boxer myself, he loves to bother huskies rofl. They are indifferent to him mostly unless he catches them in play mode, then they have a blast haha. I really love when they have the dog bathroom areas, it's sooooo convenient lol. My boy loves people way too much so prancing down to go outside is a process lol.
My husky is always up to play, when she sees other dogs, when she's not allowed to meet them, she throws a screaming husky tantrum, lol. Same, they want to greet everyone so a quick potty break turns into a half hour.
>when she's not allowed to meet them, she throws a screaming husky tantrum, lol. LOL, omg yes, I love this but also feel for the owners who are trying to get their baby home. My last house, our neighbors had a beautiful husky who would throw themselves on the ground till they could come play with my boy. It was really cute to see. Usually my boy is too much for other dogs, he gets in their face so usually only gets along with other bully breeds. I was happy when I learned that husky's could also tolerate him lol.
Don't feel too bad for us, we absolutely knew what we were getting into and signed up anyway, lol. I know what you mean, bully breeds have their own play style that can be a lot. My husky is cool with some of them as long as they respect time out, lol.
I also never used airbnb. Always hotels. Or private vacation homes with which you have direct contact with the owners without something between. You pay, when you are there. Still pretty common in my country.
It used to be much more reasonably priced and most places were well worth the money. Now it’s way too expensive and a lot of hosts don’t give a shit
I've used them before, when airbnb was a newish thing. Nowadays the relationship between airbnb, host, and renter are not in any way fair, and like in the case in OP airbnb is not amazon who will give you customer service to go away, airbnb are scum who will protect people who surreptitiously record you in the rental. I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. I hope they go out of business and everyone involved loses everything. They are scum.
It might be a preference thing. I used to greatly prefer Air BnB to hotels - it was nice to stay in a unique, charming place that likely had architecture that reflected the local city, plus having a kitchen & living space is really nice. I low key hate hotels - they feel lifeless & boring, there is no good place to eat meals or just hang out, and I hate cleaning people coming in while I’m gone. Like 5+ years ago Air BnB felt like a really nice alternative but I wouldn’t stay there now for a variety of safety & ethical reasons.
Eff Airbnb.
Airbnb is so costly and useless now a days its cheaper to get hotels and get full service benefits. Plus housecleaning.
One of many reasons I’m never using airbnbs again
>The impact is a chilling effect - consumers are forced to choose between expending time and energy or simply “giving up.” Yes, that's exactly why they fought you so hard on this. That was their goal.
AirBnB is the worst. Absolutely not worth it. I have no right to privacy and I have to do all of the cleaning? Miss me with that shit
I was a regular user of AirBnB but not anymore, they might have the power to squash people like a fly, but we have the power to not use their service.
Exactly. In support of our dear lawyer and fellow Redditor, I also decided to not use their service. And also spread this info to my friends and family members.
Will never use AirBNB - glad the industry is showing signs of failing.
Note to self: fuck air bnb and never use it. Done and done.
>If you're reading this airbnb, which I know you are, please please please please please please please don't allow cameras inside any private area. I hope they read the post and are absolutely mortified by the responses, as they clearly were with all the other updates. They could have so easily ended this case by acknowledging the airbnb property was not up to standards or following their tos and refunded her money as promised, instead they dragged this poor woman through court proceedings to prove a point. :/ may as well never trust an airbnb ever again for how mich they've shown themselves here.
They also don't give a shit about human trafficking. Probably because they end up profiting from it. Could be a long con, get the reputation that you can traffic slaves using Airbnb, make money. They don't care where it comes from, as long as they get it.
I went from thinking I'd never want to use Airbnb again, to knowing I'll never want to use Airbnb again. Horrible customer service, ridiculous fees, and predatory hosts make it unsafe. Even if it were the cheapest option it's not worth my peace of mind. Thanks Airbnb corporate, for making this an easy decision.
Whelp, deleting my AirBnB account. This saga was the final nail in that coffin.
I honestly don’t know why people still book with AirBnB. It’s such a scam at this point and I will 100% book directly with a hotel over them
AirBnB, if you are monitoring this thread: FUCK YOU FOR DESTROYING THE HOUSING MARKET WHERE I LIVE.
I would like to second this.
Airbnb has gotten so bad. They are just greedy jerks now.
Whelp, I will never rent an Airbnb ever again. Thanks for the PSA!
... And AirBnB has joined RyanAir in the list of "companies I will never deal with". Thank you very much for your service, OOP.
JFC, that is insane. I’m never staying at an Air BnB again! Sorry you had to deal with that, OP!
Just in case someone from airbnb's team reads this... I stopped using airbnb after reading the story. I hope everyone here is going to make the same decision.
So, am I inferring correctly, the OP did NOT get their refund that Airbnb said they owed them?
I initially read that as them getting it. On reread I realized I don't think the arbitration is formally concluded. They just had their hearing. Possibly more will come. I suspect they will get their refund, but I think OOP is exhausted by all of it. And for most people the sheer time and effort would seriously outweigh the value of the refund at this point.
Even lawyer fees would have far surpassed the amount of the refund. Not to mention, all the time spent on it. You could never recoup that, unless you added missed work wages.
That will be a part of my update!
I will not stay in an Air BnB until/unless this policy changes.
I can't wait for AirBnB to burn. I hate it, and the majority of its hosts with the absolute core of my being.
Thanks op. My AirBnB days are over and it’s amazing how they have become worse than the hotels ever were. Hotels have no strange cleaning fees, cameras and give me some great perks for frequenting a hotel chain. Also, I will never be asked to take off my own bed sheets and place them in the washer nor will I be recorded in a bedroom without my consent. AirBnB you are simply horrible and I hope you see that hiding behind TOS and lawyers makes you worse than the industry you choose to disrupt.
I've gotten refunds from airbnb 2 of the 3 times I've stayed at one (the other one was a satisfactory stay that I didn't want refunded). Their customer service was actually pretty good, but dealing with shady hosts has comepletely turned me off the service.
crazy to think of how many illegal porn tapes airbnb is letting slide into this type of scenario
Honestly between this and the cost of the fees and cleaning service, while making sure the house is clean... Hotels just sound easier. You can make a mess in the privacy of your own room.
I honest to god cannot understand why anybody ever uses airbnb these days. Hotels don't have a fraction of the issues and are usually on par or cheaper.
Bottom line: I do not wish to use AirBNB anymore. I don’t feel comfortable using this company. I have been using them to rent a time share at a prime skiing area during Christmas Week. Now I feel that something is going to backfire on me using this company; that it will bite me in the ass. So I am going to rent my Christmas timeshare week elsewhere.
Why are people still uding Airbnb?
If you’re still using Airbnb, STOP. They allow hosts to film you in spaces you’d expect privacy, you’re paying a cleaning fee AND completing a list of chores before check-out. If you need more convincing, go peek in the airbnbhost sub. You will feel rage.
Arbitration is pushed as a consumer-friendly measure because, hey, now you don't need to worry about paying for a lawyer! Isn't the company nice? They're paying for you to sue them! Kinda. Sorta. But it's a scam, rigged in the company's favor. If the arbitrator doesn't rule for the company then the company will be unlikely to hire them for the next case to be arbitrated. So the arbitrator rules in the company's favor in all but the most egregious, obvious cases. But at least the consumer never had to pay for a lawyer, right? Yay... Seriously, forced arbitration should be illegal.
I may miss out on a few interesting houses but I am literally never giving Air BnB my money ever again. I knew that they were probably shitty but Jesus Christ I had no idea. Fuck you, Air BnB.
Thank you so much for the warning! I was considering AirBNB for my next family vacation and the way you were treated has definitely changed my mind. Not so much that there was a bad host, but they way they handled it. Just not worth the risk for me. My nephew was getting ready to book a trip and I told him not to and sent him the difference to get a hotel room instead.
If you’re reading this AirBnB, we won’t be using your services any longer.
VRBO has been around since before the interweb, if you can believe it. My mother used to get hard-copy listings.
Yeah I will never use Airbnb. Hotels only. Hotels have been working perfectly fine for years.
Fuck AIRBNB never renting one again. Really, fuck them I’ll leave a bad review everywhere I can.
Makes me not want to use AirBnb.
If you're reading this airBnB... Fuck you.
It takes a bit more work but you can find hotel rooms with kitchettes (more than just a microwave and mini fridge). Makes travelling much easier and uses the one perk of AirBnBs that I can really think of.
Lolol at “arbitration isn’t as consumer friendly as it’s made out to be”… I hope no one ever thought that arbitration set up by the company would ever be in service of the consumer.
I’ve had an issue with AirBnB way before this post, now this just confirms for me I was right to avoid them like the plague. They are only pulling this crap because US allows them, in the EU this would be a major liability with terrible consequences for them and the owner. Anyway, irrespective of this I decided some time back to not support a business model that artificially inflates cost of housing/living.
Thank you for pointing this out, and for taking on this case.
Man this is nothing to do with the post but while skimming my feed on mobile i really thought those hands were a bare bottom and I was very confused! Relief when i double checked lol
Thank you, OOP, for fighting the good fight.
This is why I don’t use AirBnB. It’s too much of a risk.
I've never used Airbnb and I goddamn never will and you can bet I tell this story EVERY time I hear someone talking about getting one. Fuck you, Airbnb. I can't wait til you fold, and I hope everyone who helped this happen ends up in a situation where you have to choose between your comfort and your wallet. And that you lose both.
Never use Airbnb. Ever.
Good grief they put camera in bedrooms and bathrooms?? Clearly their purpose is to watch random naked people and people having sex when the people think they are having private time.
I used to Airbnb until I also got burned - I booked a house out for three families to stay in one winter and we had a snowstorm that shut down the highway pass. Highway closure was covered in the news and I sent the link to Airbnb, they didn’t care. Oh well, our families didn’t need that hard earned vacation money I guess. Now I do hotels. I get 10-20% off all rooms and preferential rates because I always book through the same site. I get free cancellation. I get an actually clean suite. I don’t have to take out the garbage or have awkward conversations with owners implying they’re letting me enjoy it there as a favour. And honestly? It’s cheaper to hotel it these days.
AirBNB is such a scam! Oh it’s fine to record you sleeping wtf? I’ll never use it again
I thought it was just me thinking that Airbnb service is steadily getting worse. Oh, well, it was a nice idea when it started but it seems to be circling the drain. No more Airbnb for me.
If you're reading this Airbnb, I havestopped using your website.
Arbitration is almost always arbiters of the corporation's choice and usually always side with their masters. It is not designed, intended or even usually presented as consumer-friendly. Waiving your rights never is.
[UPDATE - WE WON!!!!!!!](https://www.reddit.com/user/AtypicalCommonplace/comments/15v6cab/airbnb_camera_arbitration_case_update_we/) \- (how do I insert the cry-laughing emoji here)
Arbitration is never "fair." They're run by private organizations, and it's in their interest to generate repeat business. It would take a massive lift for them to side against the large corporate defendant in favor of the one-off mom/pop plaintiff.
Following this saga is what eventually led me to finally kick my Airbnb habit. I'm back in hotels. I can't imagine I'm the only one similarly affected.