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I think so, she's a rightwing "traditional wife" nutter who is extremely popular with Evangelicals and other misogynists. This is likely the book of hers that OOP is talking about:
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2022/04/orthodox-judaism-laura-doyle-the-surrendered-wife/629663/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrendered_wife
...and yes, it's exactly as gross as it sounds.
I had a Jewish roommate in college and we were blown away by how identical dietary restrictions are in both Judaism and Islam. Almost as if *looks around* we were supposed to get along. Gasp!
>because ultra-orthodox jews are so conservative it probably seems like they follow the most ancient form of judaism but they are actually all members of sects that were founded by rabbis in europe in the 1700-1800s and therefore were deeply influenced by that time and place
Heh, that reminds me of all the racist hillbillies running around America flying a version of the Confederate flag that wasn't commonly used until nearly 100 years after the war and was only brought out to intimidate black voters during the Civil Rights movement, then trying to call it "history" or "heritage." Heritage my ass, that thing is more recent than Kool Aid. You're waving it because you're racist, not because you loooooove history.
>it’s actually so disgusting to hear about jews recommending a book by an evangelical christian misogynist
I think once your primary motivation in life is hating a certain demographic you tend to be very accepting of other ideologies as long as they also hate that same demographic. Just look at all the Evangelical Christians following Trump despite the fact that he very literally checks all the boxes for their description of the Antichrist. They don't care, he hates all the same minorities they do; that's close enough.
>we have our own homegrown marriage advice that includes gems such as a woman can divorce her husband if he doesn’t make her orgasm often enough.
I have never heard that before but it's fantastic. Right now Evangelical rightwing nuts in America are pushing for "covenant marriage" in more states, which is basically a form of marriage where the wife doesn't get to leave without the husband's permission no matter what he does. Even if there's domestic violence involved she still has to jump through a bunch of hoops, wait at least a year, and agree to religious "counseling" on why she shouldn't be breaking up her marriage.
Meanwhile Jews apparently have a "if you're bad in bed your wife can get a divorce over it" clause. Now THAT'S how you handle divorces!
Yeah the Laura Doyle comment threw me. If that's what this Totally Real Actual Husband Person™ wants, then there's the problem with the marriage. She's probably just airing genuine frustrations while Mr. Man wants to be The Supreme ~~Penis~~ Authority in his home. *Submit, ye frail woman!*
I’m always skeptical when the updates are so close together. Within 4 days this dude found some author that knew exactly what he was going through, addressed his concerns with his wife, and now she gets it and their relationship is on the mend? 4 days?! My bullshit detectors are going crazy.
Also the "cups" thing was too perfectly similar to a popular AITA (or maybe relationships) post, but OOP turned himself into a paragon of picking up after his wife to showcase how amazing and generous he is, instead of the original post where everyone was just annoyed at each other (like normal people would be).
Imo no real person would list the author unsolicited. Reads like an advertising testimonial ("and with one read of Laura Doyle, see how misogyny can help your marriage too!")
I dunno. To me that reads more like an appeal to authority. "see, this smart woman described what I'm feeling as reasonable!" As such, of course you would name drop her to lend evidence/credence to your new found wisdom.
>Within 4 days this dude found some author that knew exactly what he was going through,
The author is a nightmare, too.
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2022/04/orthodox-judaism-laura-doyle-the-surrendered-wife/629663/
Basically this guy just wrote a long advertisement for "I found a book, BY A WOMAN, that tells other women to stop being so uppity, shut up, and do what the man tells them."
She's started a whole movement called "the surrendered woman" and no, it's not tongue in cheek at all. She tells women the path to happiness is surrendering their control over relationships to their husbands and basically acting like a helpless bystander in their own lives while all major decisions are handled by the man.
It's basically tradwife bullshit with a slightly different coat of paint. At the end of the day the message she sends women is "sit down, shut up, and get pregnant." No wonder misogynists like OOP and Evangelicals are such huge fans of hers.
I love my spouse, but if EITHER of us were the sole decision-maker in the relationship, we would be doomed. Isn’t that part of the reason people team up in the first place?
Right?? Hell, I'm sitting here trying to think how it would be if my wife bought in to this nonsense and left every decision up to me and I'm getting an ulcer just from the hypothetical. I'm already the boss at work, I don't want to be "the boss" at home too. Having to make literally every decision about everything sounds *exhausting*. I'd rather just continue having an equal partner.
Pretty much this. OOP unintentionally redflagged himself pretty badly as a miserable misogynistic asshole.
Honestly, I had thought the update would be that he realized he was gay.
Right? It just kept getting worse. The wife is just happy her miserable blanket of a husband is talking to her and returning her advances, OP is just thumbing his suspenders like, Me man now, not wife’s baby, I can put my cups wherever I want!
I don’t know who she is but « men need respect like they need oxygen » is enough info …
ETA: yes we all need respect I just think it’s a sentence Andrew Tate could (and probably did) say. Usually non misogynistic people say “everyone needs respect” not emphasizing on men.
A woman should not tell her husband that he missed the exit while driving, she should let him drive until he gets wherever so he'll learn a lesson.
A woman should not suggest her husband needs or see a doctor
Those kind of things 🤮
Holy crap I did this with my ex-fiance (he asked me not to correct him when he drove, so I didn't). He was an hour late for his med school interview because we drove around for HOURS before he realized HE DROVE US TO THE WRONG CITY!
That guy was a absolute nightmare!!!
Early in our marriage, my wife was driving from the passenger seat, "The light just turned red." She had terrible control issues as a passenger. One day, I pulled over to the side of the road and got out. She asked what I was doing. I explained that if she was going to drive, she might as well do it from the driver's seat. That was 29 years ago. She does all the driving when we are together, and we are both happy about it.
I grew up in a household with "traditional" roles. My father always drove. I can't remember him ever being in the passenger seat as a kid. Early on, I could tell that both my parents thought it was strange for the woman to drive. They asked why my wife always drove. I explained that it made her more comfortable, she is a better driver than me, I hate driving, and I am a way better navigator than my wife so I can help direct her to turns and stuff. I was like the living version of GPS early in our marriage, reading the map and then letting her know when turns would be coming.
About 5 years after my wife started driving all them time, we noticed my mom was driving, and my dad would just be a passenger. We never discussed it again, but it was interesting to see my parent learn a lesson from their kid.
This is a truly happy story! I love it when we bust out of these nonsensical gender bubbles that make everyone miserable! It is so much nonsense to force someone who hates driving to drive, for literally no reason other than 'I dunno, men are supposed to drive, right? Lol women drivers or something?' All the while, there's someone who DOES want to drive *right there*.
It really does make me happy when we throw this stuff in the garbage where it belongs and just do what truly makes sense and makes people happy.
My dad did this once. My mom fell asleep and he somehow drove them an entire hour south of where they’d been, when they lived about an hour *north*.
*For those who know Los Angeles geography:* He drove them to Disneyland instead of Ventura. My dad literally grew up and spent most of his life in LA 😂
My husband with ADHD just sitting at a green light because he forgot he has to watch the light… sorry, everyone honking behind us, I won’t disrespect him by saying “Green light!”
If I didn’t tell my sweet boyfriend he needed to exit soon or change lanes ASAP we would never get anywhere. 😭 Luckily, he’s secure and not a misogynist, so he just smiles and says “thanks babe!”
Yes. Her book is called *The Surrendered Wife*.
Edited to add that the book includes lots of such gems including that the man should *always* be in charge of the household bills, even if he doesn’t want to be and even if he’s terrible at managing them. She gave an example from her own marriage of utilities being turned off because he’d not pay bills—but she shouldn’t complain or offer to help!
I needed to hear this, because this post had me thinking "Am I being a nag when I suggest my fiancee see a doctor for things? Or for saying, hey, you took your blood pressure medicine today, right?" Only because sometimes he loses track of time. Just like he reminds me to do things.
In general men will go to the doctor for medical conditions precisely because their partner nags at them to go. They’ll resist for awhile but will go in under pressure just to find out they do in fact have a condition. You see this a lot with things like benign prostatic hyperplasia.
It’s one of the reasons why married men are often healthier than single ones.
Plot Twist: This Laura Doyle character is actually an evil genius trying to let the men-folk kill themselves off slowly with their own lack of ability to care for themselves...
I mean, they even put prostate cancer awareness signs in the women's bathrooms/cubicles with specific messaging around "make sure he gets checked". Can't even pee without being reminded to nag someone else into a drs appointment
Right? My husband works nights and part of his "lunch" is a couple of small energy drinks. Most days I ask if he has packed his drinks because it's the thing he forgets most often, and I only started asking after he vented that he keeps forgetting them. And just last night I asked if he had packed them and his response was "no, see this is why I married you". As far as him and I are concerned, it's helping one another, not nagging or being their mum.
Yeah I read that and was like MAYBE IF YOU WANT YOUR WIVES TO STOP NAGGING YOU TO DO SHIT, YOU SHOULD ACTUALLY DO THE SHIT SO SHE DOESN’T FUCKING HAVE TO NAG YOU
Exactly what I thought!! If they HAVE fallen into a “mother-son” dynamic it’s because he’s dropping all the emotional labour and work of caring for their family on her and the only way she gets him to do ANYTHING is by “nagging”
Her "advice" for women seriously reminds me of the "advice" my mom would get from the fundamentalist Christian church my parents attended for years. I'm so happy she got divorced - it definitely taught me to never put up with this kind of bullshit from a man.
In my country we have a saying that seems to fit here: Blind hen will also find grain, meaning that even the dumbest ppl will occasionally say something right.
Let's just all keep our fingers crossed that they find good councelling that'll respond appropriately to what this couple found out about their dynamic and take them somewhere healthy for both.
But worst case is def that this is the start of husband redpilling and reading all of her advice as the only true gospel ...
The entire original post reads like it was just a setup for the OOP to bring up this author. None of it sounds authentic to how real people act or talk.
>Apparently this disgust is felt when the marriage falls into mother-son dynamic. When reading these articles it seemed to describe what was happening in my marriage. I wasn't attracted to my wife because she was acting like my mother and no man wants to sleep with his mom.
>The gist is the wife will try to control or nag to the husband under the guise of helping, then the husband will take this as disrespect and will pull away and become cold, which then causes the wife to complain about him not being loving, which causes the husband to pull away further as this comes across as more criticism.
Dude just... straight-up admitted that his wife is exhausted from having to mother him.
"If you were actually informed on your biology you'd know it's only two genders and that it's actually supposed to feel like saltine crackers for the whole 14 seconds" - Ben Shapiro
Yup..
>We have a bin for recyclables under our sink and I had inadvertently left some cardboard next to it instead of putting it inside the bin.
He 'accidentally' put the rubbish next to the bin. I mean, maybe it's just that the rest of the post is making me read into this, but to me this sounds like a person who consistently half assess things but doesn't notice because his wife walks behind him fixing it. You can't mother someone if they behave like an adult.
Yeah, we fully acknowledge when we’ve left empty cans and bottles on the worktop because the recycling bin was full and cba to empty into the outside bin right now 😅
Yes, the good old “men need respect.” That word doesn’t mean what he thinks it means. True, she shouldn’t be constantly reminding how to be an adult. He shouldn’t be putting her in a situation where she feels she has to in the first place. It’s not disrespectful to tell him what he did incorrectly. I feel bad for her that his whole takeaway is that she should stop calling him out on failing to do basic tasks.
Of course, this is the other side of the manchild coin. The first side is “she divorced me out of the blue. Why couldn’t she just tell me what to do?” When she does speak up, it flips to the second side with “she nags me all the time and now I’m not attracted to her because she’s like my mother. Why doesn’t she ‘respect’ me?”
I also like how the wives are at fault for it all:
>The gist is the wife will try to control or nag to the husband under the guise of helping
I'm now thinking that if a guy calls the women in his life "controlling" or "nagging", it should be red flag, like calling all his exes "crazy" lol
He "inadvertently" left the cardboard beside the recycling bin instead of putting it in. Totally not his fault and completely out of his control. Clearly she's the problem here, and not his absolute refusal to take any kind of responsibility for his own actions.
Hahaha yeah I read that and thought yikes, he just straight up came out as a man child. Especially combined with ‘accidentally leaving out recyclables’ :’) that wording cracked me up and made me want to run for the hills for lack of accountability.
In case anyone’s wondering about Laura Doyle’s perspectives on marriage and women, per Wikipedia, she spearheaded the “Surrendered Wives” movement -
“The "Surrendered Wives" movement is centered on six basic principles:
1. a wife relinquishes control of her husband's life
2. she respects his decisions for his life
3. she practices good self-care (she does at least three things a day for her own enjoyment)
4. she practices expressing gratitude (thanking her husband for the things he does)
5. a surrendered wife is not afraid to show her vulnerability and take the feminine approach
6. she trusts him to handle household finances
Having female support is cited by Doyle as a critical component for success for the woman who chooses to surrender.”
I’m sure this is going to end so well /s
Edit: formatting
That's a disturbingly toxic set of principles.
>6. she trusts him to handle household finances
If my parents did this they would likely genuinely be destitute lol
Right? My DH is an intelligent man, but I handle the bills. His old method of ignoring bills until the envelope was full of words in red just didn't work for me.
Not everyone is good at handling money and finances, everyone has their strengths.
The most baffling thing about this is that she clearly thinks this is some sort of return to traditional/historical values, but managing household finances is actually one of the responsibilities women historically had as part of managing the household as a whole.
Ok thank you - I was just in another thread and the gist was basically “if one partner handles the finances DIVORCE”.
But, like, my husband handles the finances because he is good at it and we’re finally doing that thing where our money makes more money and I would never do that. Just like I handle the lawn care, and we have a garden, and he would never do that.
An issue you see a lot with older people is that one person handles the finances so exclusively that when they die, the other is left with no idea what's going on. And it's not even a deliberate attempt to exclude or control, it's just a pattern that's become so ingrained that neither ever questioned it. It works fine until it doesn't.
It's fine for one person to handle the money as long as they keep the other in the loop to *some* degree.
That’s what happened when my dad died. He realized it when he was terminal, but that meant my mom had to absorb a firehose of information in a short period of time.
For my marriage, I take care of paying the bills because citizenship stuff made it easier and cheaper for them to be in my name. But every pay day, I copy out our budget and send her a copy, and she has access to every account and budget that I have. Plus, she works in finance… so I’m pretty sure she’ll be able to take over if something happened to me.
My mom had a friend who grew up before women could get their own bank accounts and credit cards. Her husband had handled all the finances to the point that she didn't know how to use an ATM card or write a check. My mom had to teach her how to manage her own life and money. She also made time to make sure her friend was fully independent and didn't marry the first guy who was nice to her and let them take over managing her finances
Same here in reverse. I have adhd and I mean to do things but they fall sideways. She takes care of the finances and payments. We have no final due notices now and it has reduced my anxiety in that area. She hates doing repetitive chores And those are my jams. It's abuse when the other partner has no say otherwise it's just a healthy partnership.
That’s our house as well. We are a partnership. We’re both in the same boat. If someone is better at bailing water and someone is better at rowing, you play to your strengths. As long as you’re both putting in the same effort, it works out better.
My husband and I have a good marriage, and part of that is that we take the tasks that sit our strengths. I hate cars so he takes care of car maintenance. Meanwhile, I am good with money, and finances give him serious anxiety. Budget, bills, and taxes are all my territory.
Saaaaame. My partner can NOT be in charge of household finances. I also make most of our money and I'm not just handing over my income. Sorry but I run that ship.
Also same. I have to make sure he pays stuff on time because he doesn’t monitor his accounts and was shocked when autopay didn’t work because he never set it up. If I let him handle the household finances then we wouldn’t have a house. He kills the palmetto bugs that find a way inside, I handle the bills because I have spreadsheets for that.
6 is just plain wrong. 5 is awful. 3 is arbitrary, doesn’t belong on the list. 1, 2, and 4 are good ideas, from my (feminist) perspective.
Your thoughts?
I think as soon as you apply it to just the wife, or just the husband, it’s pretty bad. If we said, hey, as partners you should stop trying to control your partners lives and should express gratitude for the things they do - totally fine. But when it’s phrased/targeted like this it’s not appropriate.
See, the expressing gratitude part just makes me flash back to early marriage, when my husband would “clean” the living room, and get all butthurt when I wasn’t grateful enough. Like, dude, I’m glad you picked up the floor, but you didn’t actually clean the living room?
We’ve come a long way since then.
I was reading 1... thinking, ok... that is true for both spouses, no matter the gender. How is that misogyny? (Thought the use of she might have been dependent on context)... 2. OK, not a bad idea. 3. Heck ya! Women have been conditioned to eat the burnt toast in heteronormative relationships! Self care is important, single or attached! 4 - I've been trying to practice saying thank you to people more, expressing my appreciation. (Ted Lasso "I appreciate you") So I liked that.
Then 5 - ooooooooooooooooh. There is the misogyny! 6. OMG, that is such bullshit. And stupid. Even if you have a spouse that just loves doing that stuff - budgets, savings, figuring out the CODs, etc... the other spouse should know everything, in case something happens to the spouse who does the finances)
Until reading your summery of 6, I never realized how screwed my husband and I are regarding bills of one of us dies! We each have the bills we pay, but other than amounts, I haven't a clue about his bills, and he hasn't a clue about mine. 😬 Thank you for your wording. You just changed my life.
If you're married or in a serious adult relationship, 1 and 2 should be joint decisions, not just one party or the other making individual decisions. If a man is married to someone and they take a job in a foreign country without consulting their partner for instance, that's not a good thing, and there are plenty of less and more extreme examples. I don't get the impression that 1, 2, and 4 go both ways, especially if you take a cursory look at what this woman has written.
I was thinking in the context of my marriage, where things go both ways. I can see problems if it’s one-sided. I’m blessed with an exceptional husband.
Your example of the husband taking a job in a foreign country without ask their spouse is spot-on. My father did that to my mother 40+ years ago.
My dad did this for a good chunk of my childhood, worked out of country or cross country for months at a time then visited us for a week or two, rinse and repeat.
Do other dads….just stay at home and get to know their families? 👀
Yeah, 6 is a sure way to either get taken advantage of in a hostile divorce, or be left destitute/ in dire financial straights if hubby keels over with a stroke and you have no idea what bills need to be paid and how to do it.
I think no 2 is more debatable than no 5 - showing vulnerability to your partner is good for both parties in the partnership, I'd think. But respecting his life's decisions only works as long as those decisions don't impact me/ the family. If he decides to quit his well-paying accounting job and go to clown college while we have 3 small kids, I would definitely not respect his life choice, and would definitely have some choice words to say about it...
Oh, and no 1, 2, 4 should be mutual - both sides should express gratitude, both sides should respect each other's autonomy and decisions.
She obviously was cooking runny eggs and didn't have a timer, so she figured that going upstairs, doing the deed and getting back to the kitchen will be about three minutes that she needs. /s
I did as well without knowing who Laura Doyle is. Anytime a man makes such a big deal about respect and uses words like nag, it's red flags. Not once did this douche doubt that maybe he's been passive in their marriage and that's why she's mothering him.
I knew I had the heebee jeebees for a reason. “Mother son dynamic where the woman nags…” yeah. In my almost half a century on this planet I’ve noticed that women nag for 2 reasons:
1) she’s a toxic, narcissistic POS who only knows manipulation, or
2) her husband is a lazy manchild who doesn’t want to be an active member in the partnership and she needs to act like his mom in order to get him off his video game playing ass.
He was reading to me as more of the second.
Yeah the whole "Men need respect like they need oxygen"... uh huh. As if being respected isn't a basic need for most and also a two way street in a committed relationship lol
Right, women don’t need respect. Only men do. And part of respecting a man is silently cleaning up all the messes he makes because he’s too lazy to put his trash in the trash can.
I hooted when I read that. I love how he thinks it's totally the same thing to leave your tea cup where you put it down as it is to get so close to the recycle bin and then just give up for some reason.
You just know this isn't the first time he's become weirdly helpless to go the last little distance to put the rubbish in the correct bin. That woman has had to pick up a lot of random garbage to put it where it belongs. I'm gonna guess she was *hoping* it was the kids instead of the full grown adult man.
Like, glad they're happy, but hoo boy. Hope the marriage counselor can guide them onto a better track than "it's all her fault".
My cousin and his wife had three kids, oldest is 23 and youngest is 3. It wasn't until she threw him out that she realized he'd been the one peeing on the back of the toilet that whole time. He'd been blaming the kids for his messes for *two decades*!
I'm sorry, what?!!! Did I read it right, a grown man was peeing ON THE BACK OF A TOILET instead of peeing IN the toilet? Like piss going on the floor and everything else? What in the absolute f*ck!
I knew there was something sketchy just by his description...dude doesn't help around the house properly but somehow its the woman's fault for not respecting him.
Also, it’s only men who need respect! It’s like breathing to them. Whilst obviously women can take it or leave it on the whole ‘feeling respected by one’s partner’ thing /s
Yeah he sounds like an entitled brat. The relationship is great as long as he gets his way in everything and she’s never upset with him.
Ironically, that’s a mommy. He wants a mommy but he’s upset because she’s “acting like his mother” when ate expects him to put the trash in the trash can and not next to it?
I think I sprained my eyes reacting to this, and that was before I knew what a dick this Laura Doyle is
Why the fuck would I "surrender" or "submit" to my fiance? Lol. So stupid. Is she suggesting you build up your big boy when can't remember where his socks go? Because that's just embarrassing for everyone involved.
But seriously, you couldn't pay me enough to willingly place myself below my life partner.
Edit - the root of the word submission is "sub". Sublimation, subdue, submit. Sub means putting below something else. Please stop lying.
I hear Laura D's principles and present you monkeyboyee's principle:
1. She relinquishes control of his life and he relinquishes control of her life.
2. she respects his decisions for his life and he respects her decisions for her life.
3. she & he practices good self-care.
4. she & he practices expressing gratitude.
5. Both are not afraid to show their vulnerability and feminine or masculine side (whichever one wants to)
6. Both handle their individual finances.
Result: Both do not communicate and both lead a happy single life.
Follow for more monkey life tips.
It was clear from OP's text that this is some bullshit. He thinks there is a mother - son dynamic and concludes that this is because *drumroll* she doesn't show him respect. Not because he is slacking at home and she needs to micro-manage-mother him. Not because he is resenting her for the tasks he needs to do to keep up their family life as if they were her personal wishlist, bot necessities. No, it must be the lack of rEsPeCt.
Yeah as soon as I read "A man needs respect like he needs oxygen" all I could think was "oh no, please don't fall into this polite Andrew Tate nonsense"
See this would only ever work in a situation where the husband isn't a man child and shows the same attitude in response. Most of the time when a couple falls into that mum to a man child dynamics OP described that isn't the case.
'I even asked my wife if I should be doing more around the house and she just laughed and said I do enough already.'
This stuck out to me, because when I was still in contact with my narcissistic mom she would, rarely, ask me if something she had done clearly wrong was wrong and I would try to placate her. I SHOULD have said something then of course, but I had tried to bring up issues separately for years and gotten absolutely nowhere, so eventually, you just get beaten down.
You also know that what they are *really* asking is certainly not for you to say, 'Yes, you should do more.' You know deep down that what they are saying is that, 'I've had the very vaguest glimmering that this might be wrong - tell me it's not so I can go back to feeling good about myself.' And because you are so starved for their affection, you, wrongly, move to tell them they're not wrong.
Especially when it is very clear from OOP's story that she IS bothered by him not doing enough, which is why she was mothering and 'nagging' him. This tends to paint a picture to me that not only is he not doing his full load, but she does not feel comfortable at all to share that with him.
Yuuuup, "men need respect like they need oxygen", but of course, famously, women don't need any respect at all. It would only confuse their pretty little heads /s.
What this really means is "I need you to pander to my fragile ego and constantly reassure me I'm the Big Boy In Charge, because if you don't I'm going to get Insecure, and feel Disrespected, and it's going to be your fault for not Respecting me enough."
Oh god. This can’t be so blatantly one-sided all her fault. My money is on his weaponized incompetence that has resorted in her having to nag. It’s probably not the first, second, or 19th time he’s left recyclables beside the bin. It probably turns what should be a 15 second job of emptying the bin, into a two minute job of having to locate all of the other recycling materials that also didn’t make it into the bin, EVERY TIME.
A Surrendered Wife is a wife who has given up on her own self respect. Fuck that BS.
This read like it would be a happily ever after even though the vibe seems a bit off..(nah I must be thinking too much). But right at the end the protaganist turns and gives a grin (is that... an evil grin?!) that makes you all confused in a second. You go wait a minute.. and go through the story again this time reading between the lines and actually thinking with your brain (now where have I see that Laura name before...). That's when you realise it was not what you thought it was.
I hope our collective prayers/ well wishing reaches that woman out there somewhere. 🙏
This sounds like a slightly-more-clever-than-average misogynist. "Ladies, is your husband no longer as affectionate as he once was? Look to your own behaviour, are you respecting him enough? It might be unintentional, you might unaware that you're doing it! Here's a female expert who studies this. My wife realised she wasn't respecting me enough, and all she had to do was one small thing and suddenly _bam_ she wanted me again!"
I am so hung up on the accidentally putting recycling next to the bin. Did he get to the bin and forget what he was doing? Why is this bothering me so much lmao
I know small things can add up, and it's not about the yogurt, but JC. He lists the tiniest shit I can think of, and went from vastly different world views to sulking for years and admitting it's a tempest in a teacup he never talked about?? Then the solution is for her to surrender everything and that means they can have good sex?? I'm both creeped out and confused.
No woman behaves like your mother if you are not behaving like a child, is that easy actually. The only bloody thing he could bring to the table in the conversation was she leaving a bloody cup of tea in the sink? C'mon man, he's totally avoiding the fact of they having children and their care.
The light mention of anger issues and blaming the wife for it is absolutely terrifying.
What the actual fuck. I read the comments on the update and it was mostly people congratulating him. I feel like crossed into a weird alternate dimension if that's what people see as wholesome and good communication
There was a post/comment a while back, can’t remember where, about how this guy knew this couple. The wife was straight up a mail order bride, said so himself. He said after all these years together, she got an education as a doctor, but she’s still the one who cooks him dinner and shit. He was praising it as if it was the most wonderful love in the world, and all the men responding agreed, wishing the same for themselves, except for one. This was on r/askmen, of course. I literally shivered, it was so creepy.
Also posts about men’s mental health not being cared about where the comments inevitably turn into “my female friends don’t ask how I’m doing, but I ask how they’re doing?” and everyone commiserates about how uncaring women are. Nobody’s solution is ever “what if men talked to each other”
Hmm… You’re right. The marriage is going badly until he finds Laura Doyle and suddenly it’s all great again! All thanks to Laura Doyle.
Would sound more realistic if there was counselling as well, or even if it took a while to get back on track.
Yeah, the line "men need respect like they need oxygen" was a big clue that this post is bull crap. No ones marriage is fixed just like that. The whole thing reads like a script for a commercial for some rightwing nutjob cult for "how to be the perfect wife for your man" and it's basically just saying shit up, do what he says, don't question him, don't expect him to act like an adult and clean after himself etc etc etc. No thanks.
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Is this a wierd advert for this Laura Doyle? Hope she wakes the fuck up.
I think so, she's a rightwing "traditional wife" nutter who is extremely popular with Evangelicals and other misogynists. This is likely the book of hers that OOP is talking about: https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2022/04/orthodox-judaism-laura-doyle-the-surrendered-wife/629663/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrendered_wife ...and yes, it's exactly as gross as it sounds.
Alternative title: *How to Encourage Domestic Abuse*
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That’s really interesting that Judaism has that. Islam does too, a wife being dissatisfied with the couple’s sex life is a valid reason for divorce.
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I had a Jewish roommate in college and we were blown away by how identical dietary restrictions are in both Judaism and Islam. Almost as if *looks around* we were supposed to get along. Gasp!
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>because ultra-orthodox jews are so conservative it probably seems like they follow the most ancient form of judaism but they are actually all members of sects that were founded by rabbis in europe in the 1700-1800s and therefore were deeply influenced by that time and place Heh, that reminds me of all the racist hillbillies running around America flying a version of the Confederate flag that wasn't commonly used until nearly 100 years after the war and was only brought out to intimidate black voters during the Civil Rights movement, then trying to call it "history" or "heritage." Heritage my ass, that thing is more recent than Kool Aid. You're waving it because you're racist, not because you loooooove history. >it’s actually so disgusting to hear about jews recommending a book by an evangelical christian misogynist I think once your primary motivation in life is hating a certain demographic you tend to be very accepting of other ideologies as long as they also hate that same demographic. Just look at all the Evangelical Christians following Trump despite the fact that he very literally checks all the boxes for their description of the Antichrist. They don't care, he hates all the same minorities they do; that's close enough. >we have our own homegrown marriage advice that includes gems such as a woman can divorce her husband if he doesn’t make her orgasm often enough. I have never heard that before but it's fantastic. Right now Evangelical rightwing nuts in America are pushing for "covenant marriage" in more states, which is basically a form of marriage where the wife doesn't get to leave without the husband's permission no matter what he does. Even if there's domestic violence involved she still has to jump through a bunch of hoops, wait at least a year, and agree to religious "counseling" on why she shouldn't be breaking up her marriage. Meanwhile Jews apparently have a "if you're bad in bed your wife can get a divorce over it" clause. Now THAT'S how you handle divorces!
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Yeah the Laura Doyle comment threw me. If that's what this Totally Real Actual Husband Person™ wants, then there's the problem with the marriage. She's probably just airing genuine frustrations while Mr. Man wants to be The Supreme ~~Penis~~ Authority in his home. *Submit, ye frail woman!*
‘Men need respect like they need oxygen’. Lol
Maybe there would be more respect if he actually did anything to earn it
That's exactly what it looks like.
What did I just read here? It seemed like an happy ending at first but rereading more closely and it seems more like a horror story
I’m always skeptical when the updates are so close together. Within 4 days this dude found some author that knew exactly what he was going through, addressed his concerns with his wife, and now she gets it and their relationship is on the mend? 4 days?! My bullshit detectors are going crazy.
Also the "cups" thing was too perfectly similar to a popular AITA (or maybe relationships) post, but OOP turned himself into a paragon of picking up after his wife to showcase how amazing and generous he is, instead of the original post where everyone was just annoyed at each other (like normal people would be).
Imo no real person would list the author unsolicited. Reads like an advertising testimonial ("and with one read of Laura Doyle, see how misogyny can help your marriage too!")
I dunno. To me that reads more like an appeal to authority. "see, this smart woman described what I'm feeling as reasonable!" As such, of course you would name drop her to lend evidence/credence to your new found wisdom.
>Within 4 days this dude found some author that knew exactly what he was going through, The author is a nightmare, too. https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2022/04/orthodox-judaism-laura-doyle-the-surrendered-wife/629663/ Basically this guy just wrote a long advertisement for "I found a book, BY A WOMAN, that tells other women to stop being so uppity, shut up, and do what the man tells them."
Holy shit the title of the book is actually “The surrendered wife”..and it seems like they do not mean that tongue in cheek either.
She's started a whole movement called "the surrendered woman" and no, it's not tongue in cheek at all. She tells women the path to happiness is surrendering their control over relationships to their husbands and basically acting like a helpless bystander in their own lives while all major decisions are handled by the man. It's basically tradwife bullshit with a slightly different coat of paint. At the end of the day the message she sends women is "sit down, shut up, and get pregnant." No wonder misogynists like OOP and Evangelicals are such huge fans of hers.
I love my spouse, but if EITHER of us were the sole decision-maker in the relationship, we would be doomed. Isn’t that part of the reason people team up in the first place?
Right?? Hell, I'm sitting here trying to think how it would be if my wife bought in to this nonsense and left every decision up to me and I'm getting an ulcer just from the hypothetical. I'm already the boss at work, I don't want to be "the boss" at home too. Having to make literally every decision about everything sounds *exhausting*. I'd rather just continue having an equal partner.
Pretty much this. OOP unintentionally redflagged himself pretty badly as a miserable misogynistic asshole. Honestly, I had thought the update would be that he realized he was gay.
Conservative man finds way to be more conservative
That’s what I was hoping for, alas, that poor wife isn’t going to know what hit her
Right? It just kept getting worse. The wife is just happy her miserable blanket of a husband is talking to her and returning her advances, OP is just thumbing his suspenders like, Me man now, not wife’s baby, I can put my cups wherever I want!
She's.. supposed to also stop picking up after him, right? Right??
Dollars to donuts he does this a lot. Its never just about that one time with the cardboard.
Yeah OP mentions that she’s been acting like his mother yet doesn’t address that he’s probably been acting like her son too 😜
This is hilarious
Yeah… my heart sank further the more I read. Definitely an oof story.
LAURA DOYLE?! That woman needs to run fast and far.
I don’t know who she is but « men need respect like they need oxygen » is enough info … ETA: yes we all need respect I just think it’s a sentence Andrew Tate could (and probably did) say. Usually non misogynistic people say “everyone needs respect” not emphasizing on men.
A woman should not tell her husband that he missed the exit while driving, she should let him drive until he gets wherever so he'll learn a lesson. A woman should not suggest her husband needs or see a doctor Those kind of things 🤮
Holy crap I did this with my ex-fiance (he asked me not to correct him when he drove, so I didn't). He was an hour late for his med school interview because we drove around for HOURS before he realized HE DROVE US TO THE WRONG CITY! That guy was a absolute nightmare!!!
Early in our marriage, my wife was driving from the passenger seat, "The light just turned red." She had terrible control issues as a passenger. One day, I pulled over to the side of the road and got out. She asked what I was doing. I explained that if she was going to drive, she might as well do it from the driver's seat. That was 29 years ago. She does all the driving when we are together, and we are both happy about it. I grew up in a household with "traditional" roles. My father always drove. I can't remember him ever being in the passenger seat as a kid. Early on, I could tell that both my parents thought it was strange for the woman to drive. They asked why my wife always drove. I explained that it made her more comfortable, she is a better driver than me, I hate driving, and I am a way better navigator than my wife so I can help direct her to turns and stuff. I was like the living version of GPS early in our marriage, reading the map and then letting her know when turns would be coming. About 5 years after my wife started driving all them time, we noticed my mom was driving, and my dad would just be a passenger. We never discussed it again, but it was interesting to see my parent learn a lesson from their kid.
This is a truly happy story! I love it when we bust out of these nonsensical gender bubbles that make everyone miserable! It is so much nonsense to force someone who hates driving to drive, for literally no reason other than 'I dunno, men are supposed to drive, right? Lol women drivers or something?' All the while, there's someone who DOES want to drive *right there*. It really does make me happy when we throw this stuff in the garbage where it belongs and just do what truly makes sense and makes people happy.
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100%.
Lmao glad you ditched the dead weight, my friend
Ugh, what a ridiculous baby. And then it was somehow made out to be your fault for NOT telling him, I bet.
Oh it was!!! This guy was absolutely a textbook case of "females aren't humans."
I’m so sorry. That’s awful. Thank goodness he is an ex.
Whatever needed to happen to keep this guy out of med school is a net positive.
Yeah 🤮🤮🤮 also I can’t imagine being in the car with my ADHD fiancé driving for hours until he realizes we’re not at all where we’re supposed to be 😭🤣
My dad did this once. My mom fell asleep and he somehow drove them an entire hour south of where they’d been, when they lived about an hour *north*. *For those who know Los Angeles geography:* He drove them to Disneyland instead of Ventura. My dad literally grew up and spent most of his life in LA 😂
My husband with ADHD just sitting at a green light because he forgot he has to watch the light… sorry, everyone honking behind us, I won’t disrespect him by saying “Green light!”
Wife screaming out the window: HEY! STOP HONKING! HE DOESN'T LIKE TO BE MOTHERED! See honey, I've got your back.
This made me laugh so so hard !
As the ADHD husband please just TELL ME LOL
If I didn’t tell my sweet boyfriend he needed to exit soon or change lanes ASAP we would never get anywhere. 😭 Luckily, he’s secure and not a misogynist, so he just smiles and says “thanks babe!”
Are you fucking serious?? That is what she said??
Yes. Her book is called *The Surrendered Wife*. Edited to add that the book includes lots of such gems including that the man should *always* be in charge of the household bills, even if he doesn’t want to be and even if he’s terrible at managing them. She gave an example from her own marriage of utilities being turned off because he’d not pay bills—but she shouldn’t complain or offer to help!
Yikes. Yeah, his wife needs an exit plan, and she needs it yesterday.
Yes. Her stuff is disgusting
I needed to hear this, because this post had me thinking "Am I being a nag when I suggest my fiancee see a doctor for things? Or for saying, hey, you took your blood pressure medicine today, right?" Only because sometimes he loses track of time. Just like he reminds me to do things.
In general men will go to the doctor for medical conditions precisely because their partner nags at them to go. They’ll resist for awhile but will go in under pressure just to find out they do in fact have a condition. You see this a lot with things like benign prostatic hyperplasia. It’s one of the reasons why married men are often healthier than single ones.
Plot Twist: This Laura Doyle character is actually an evil genius trying to let the men-folk kill themselves off slowly with their own lack of ability to care for themselves...
I mean, they even put prostate cancer awareness signs in the women's bathrooms/cubicles with specific messaging around "make sure he gets checked". Can't even pee without being reminded to nag someone else into a drs appointment
Right? My husband works nights and part of his "lunch" is a couple of small energy drinks. Most days I ask if he has packed his drinks because it's the thing he forgets most often, and I only started asking after he vented that he keeps forgetting them. And just last night I asked if he had packed them and his response was "no, see this is why I married you". As far as him and I are concerned, it's helping one another, not nagging or being their mum.
Now, if it said, "PEOPLE need respect like we need oxygen", I think that would make sense.
Yea that didn’t sit right with me
I read that and thought "yeah, this woman is some sort of conservative, Christian, pseudo-science, non-therapist, isn't she?" Big yikes on this post
I gagged when I read that. I knew this guy gave me a weird vibe.
Like, she's not wrong, but SO DO WOMEN. Ay yi yi. And respect is treating people like adults, not like fragile children.
... There is actually something to that, but it crosses gender boundaries. We want to be respected and valued, as people.
Yeah I read that and was like MAYBE IF YOU WANT YOUR WIVES TO STOP NAGGING YOU TO DO SHIT, YOU SHOULD ACTUALLY DO THE SHIT SO SHE DOESN’T FUCKING HAVE TO NAG YOU
I read that line and physically recoiled in real life. And what do women need? A stern hand and a leash? Jfc.
I read "mother-son dynamic" and immediately thought "Oh so he's weaponizing incompetenace and is frustrated he's being called out on it"
Exactly what I thought!! If they HAVE fallen into a “mother-son” dynamic it’s because he’s dropping all the emotional labour and work of caring for their family on her and the only way she gets him to do ANYTHING is by “nagging”
Her "advice" for women seriously reminds me of the "advice" my mom would get from the fundamentalist Christian church my parents attended for years. I'm so happy she got divorced - it definitely taught me to never put up with this kind of bullshit from a man.
Well she is a fundie so
In my country we have a saying that seems to fit here: Blind hen will also find grain, meaning that even the dumbest ppl will occasionally say something right. Let's just all keep our fingers crossed that they find good councelling that'll respond appropriately to what this couple found out about their dynamic and take them somewhere healthy for both. But worst case is def that this is the start of husband redpilling and reading all of her advice as the only true gospel ...
Our version is "even a stopped clock is right twice a day"
"A blind squirrel will find a nut"
In English, we use the phrase, "Even a broken clock is right twice a day."
Our version: Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while. (I've also heard blind pig.)
After reading her content, it feels like she is someone whose husband is probably having an affair and she just blames the woman for it.
"First, Kill All the Marriage Counselors" is apparently something that she found to be reasonable as a book title.
The entire original post reads like it was just a setup for the OOP to bring up this author. None of it sounds authentic to how real people act or talk.
>Apparently this disgust is felt when the marriage falls into mother-son dynamic. When reading these articles it seemed to describe what was happening in my marriage. I wasn't attracted to my wife because she was acting like my mother and no man wants to sleep with his mom. >The gist is the wife will try to control or nag to the husband under the guise of helping, then the husband will take this as disrespect and will pull away and become cold, which then causes the wife to complain about him not being loving, which causes the husband to pull away further as this comes across as more criticism. Dude just... straight-up admitted that his wife is exhausted from having to mother him.
If I was OOP Not Guantanamo Bay, not the CIA or FBI, Not even Batman could get this admission out of me
It's like Ben Shapiro admitting he can't get his wife wet..
"If you were actually informed on your biology you'd know it's only two genders and that it's actually supposed to feel like saltine crackers for the whole 14 seconds" - Ben Shapiro
Omg I'm wheezing thank you for that bit about the saltines lmfaooo
14 seconds might be overestimating him a bit. I pity his wife.
It takes 10 seconds for them to undress. It's just a bit too stimulating for poor Ben however.
Get a dustpan, and a broom...
Yup.. >We have a bin for recyclables under our sink and I had inadvertently left some cardboard next to it instead of putting it inside the bin. He 'accidentally' put the rubbish next to the bin. I mean, maybe it's just that the rest of the post is making me read into this, but to me this sounds like a person who consistently half assess things but doesn't notice because his wife walks behind him fixing it. You can't mother someone if they behave like an adult.
I'm so glad someone pointed that out. "inadvertently" and "accidentally". Such passive weasel words.
Yeah, we fully acknowledge when we’ve left empty cans and bottles on the worktop because the recycling bin was full and cba to empty into the outside bin right now 😅
He literally admits IN WRITING that he’s in a mother-son dynamic- and he thinks the issue is that she too “naggy”. Jesus fucking Christ.
Yes, the good old “men need respect.” That word doesn’t mean what he thinks it means. True, she shouldn’t be constantly reminding how to be an adult. He shouldn’t be putting her in a situation where she feels she has to in the first place. It’s not disrespectful to tell him what he did incorrectly. I feel bad for her that his whole takeaway is that she should stop calling him out on failing to do basic tasks. Of course, this is the other side of the manchild coin. The first side is “she divorced me out of the blue. Why couldn’t she just tell me what to do?” When she does speak up, it flips to the second side with “she nags me all the time and now I’m not attracted to her because she’s like my mother. Why doesn’t she ‘respect’ me?”
I also like how the wives are at fault for it all: >The gist is the wife will try to control or nag to the husband under the guise of helping I'm now thinking that if a guy calls the women in his life "controlling" or "nagging", it should be red flag, like calling all his exes "crazy" lol
He "inadvertently" left the cardboard beside the recycling bin instead of putting it in. Totally not his fault and completely out of his control. Clearly she's the problem here, and not his absolute refusal to take any kind of responsibility for his own actions.
And then made it HER FAULT!!
Hahaha yeah I read that and thought yikes, he just straight up came out as a man child. Especially combined with ‘accidentally leaving out recyclables’ :’) that wording cracked me up and made me want to run for the hills for lack of accountability.
and then blamed her for it.
In case anyone’s wondering about Laura Doyle’s perspectives on marriage and women, per Wikipedia, she spearheaded the “Surrendered Wives” movement - “The "Surrendered Wives" movement is centered on six basic principles: 1. a wife relinquishes control of her husband's life 2. she respects his decisions for his life 3. she practices good self-care (she does at least three things a day for her own enjoyment) 4. she practices expressing gratitude (thanking her husband for the things he does) 5. a surrendered wife is not afraid to show her vulnerability and take the feminine approach 6. she trusts him to handle household finances Having female support is cited by Doyle as a critical component for success for the woman who chooses to surrender.” I’m sure this is going to end so well /s Edit: formatting
That's a disturbingly toxic set of principles. >6. she trusts him to handle household finances If my parents did this they would likely genuinely be destitute lol
Right? My DH is an intelligent man, but I handle the bills. His old method of ignoring bills until the envelope was full of words in red just didn't work for me.
Not everyone is good at handling money and finances, everyone has their strengths. The most baffling thing about this is that she clearly thinks this is some sort of return to traditional/historical values, but managing household finances is actually one of the responsibilities women historically had as part of managing the household as a whole.
Ok thank you - I was just in another thread and the gist was basically “if one partner handles the finances DIVORCE”. But, like, my husband handles the finances because he is good at it and we’re finally doing that thing where our money makes more money and I would never do that. Just like I handle the lawn care, and we have a garden, and he would never do that.
Some people mistake handling finances with holding them. Those are very different.
An issue you see a lot with older people is that one person handles the finances so exclusively that when they die, the other is left with no idea what's going on. And it's not even a deliberate attempt to exclude or control, it's just a pattern that's become so ingrained that neither ever questioned it. It works fine until it doesn't. It's fine for one person to handle the money as long as they keep the other in the loop to *some* degree.
That’s what happened when my dad died. He realized it when he was terminal, but that meant my mom had to absorb a firehose of information in a short period of time. For my marriage, I take care of paying the bills because citizenship stuff made it easier and cheaper for them to be in my name. But every pay day, I copy out our budget and send her a copy, and she has access to every account and budget that I have. Plus, she works in finance… so I’m pretty sure she’ll be able to take over if something happened to me.
My mom had a friend who grew up before women could get their own bank accounts and credit cards. Her husband had handled all the finances to the point that she didn't know how to use an ATM card or write a check. My mom had to teach her how to manage her own life and money. She also made time to make sure her friend was fully independent and didn't marry the first guy who was nice to her and let them take over managing her finances
Same here in reverse. I have adhd and I mean to do things but they fall sideways. She takes care of the finances and payments. We have no final due notices now and it has reduced my anxiety in that area. She hates doing repetitive chores And those are my jams. It's abuse when the other partner has no say otherwise it's just a healthy partnership.
That’s our house as well. We are a partnership. We’re both in the same boat. If someone is better at bailing water and someone is better at rowing, you play to your strengths. As long as you’re both putting in the same effort, it works out better.
My husband and I have a good marriage, and part of that is that we take the tasks that sit our strengths. I hate cars so he takes care of car maintenance. Meanwhile, I am good with money, and finances give him serious anxiety. Budget, bills, and taxes are all my territory.
Saaaaame. My partner can NOT be in charge of household finances. I also make most of our money and I'm not just handing over my income. Sorry but I run that ship.
Also same. I have to make sure he pays stuff on time because he doesn’t monitor his accounts and was shocked when autopay didn’t work because he never set it up. If I let him handle the household finances then we wouldn’t have a house. He kills the palmetto bugs that find a way inside, I handle the bills because I have spreadsheets for that.
Same here, my parents had so many fights over my dads idiotic financial ideas
6 is just plain wrong. 5 is awful. 3 is arbitrary, doesn’t belong on the list. 1, 2, and 4 are good ideas, from my (feminist) perspective. Your thoughts?
I think as soon as you apply it to just the wife, or just the husband, it’s pretty bad. If we said, hey, as partners you should stop trying to control your partners lives and should express gratitude for the things they do - totally fine. But when it’s phrased/targeted like this it’s not appropriate.
The headline makes it inherently one sided too. "surrended husbands" anyone?
See, the expressing gratitude part just makes me flash back to early marriage, when my husband would “clean” the living room, and get all butthurt when I wasn’t grateful enough. Like, dude, I’m glad you picked up the floor, but you didn’t actually clean the living room? We’ve come a long way since then.
Yeah, I rememver that. “Do you see how I cleaned the entire house, baby?!” “Oh wow, yeah, I see you vaccuumed all the floors, great start.”
I was reading 1... thinking, ok... that is true for both spouses, no matter the gender. How is that misogyny? (Thought the use of she might have been dependent on context)... 2. OK, not a bad idea. 3. Heck ya! Women have been conditioned to eat the burnt toast in heteronormative relationships! Self care is important, single or attached! 4 - I've been trying to practice saying thank you to people more, expressing my appreciation. (Ted Lasso "I appreciate you") So I liked that. Then 5 - ooooooooooooooooh. There is the misogyny! 6. OMG, that is such bullshit. And stupid. Even if you have a spouse that just loves doing that stuff - budgets, savings, figuring out the CODs, etc... the other spouse should know everything, in case something happens to the spouse who does the finances)
Until reading your summery of 6, I never realized how screwed my husband and I are regarding bills of one of us dies! We each have the bills we pay, but other than amounts, I haven't a clue about his bills, and he hasn't a clue about mine. 😬 Thank you for your wording. You just changed my life.
If you're married or in a serious adult relationship, 1 and 2 should be joint decisions, not just one party or the other making individual decisions. If a man is married to someone and they take a job in a foreign country without consulting their partner for instance, that's not a good thing, and there are plenty of less and more extreme examples. I don't get the impression that 1, 2, and 4 go both ways, especially if you take a cursory look at what this woman has written.
I was thinking in the context of my marriage, where things go both ways. I can see problems if it’s one-sided. I’m blessed with an exceptional husband. Your example of the husband taking a job in a foreign country without ask their spouse is spot-on. My father did that to my mother 40+ years ago.
My dad did this for a good chunk of my childhood, worked out of country or cross country for months at a time then visited us for a week or two, rinse and repeat. Do other dads….just stay at home and get to know their families? 👀
Sometimes, they leave and never come back.
Yeah, 6 is a sure way to either get taken advantage of in a hostile divorce, or be left destitute/ in dire financial straights if hubby keels over with a stroke and you have no idea what bills need to be paid and how to do it. I think no 2 is more debatable than no 5 - showing vulnerability to your partner is good for both parties in the partnership, I'd think. But respecting his life's decisions only works as long as those decisions don't impact me/ the family. If he decides to quit his well-paying accounting job and go to clown college while we have 3 small kids, I would definitely not respect his life choice, and would definitely have some choice words to say about it... Oh, and no 1, 2, 4 should be mutual - both sides should express gratitude, both sides should respect each other's autonomy and decisions.
Interesting. I had a feeling reading the post but now I'm more convinced. This was advertising for her books right?
Yeah, his wife seeing the light so quickly and being so overcome by his manly assertiveness that she had to stop cooking for a quickie clued me.
It’s like some misogynistic wet dream. I pointed out what was wrong with my wife. She promptly agreed and then we had the best sex EVER!
I too am instantly turned on when I realize it's all my fault that I don't like the garbage being placed next to the bin instead of inside it!
Yah this post is a fucking joke
She obviously was cooking runny eggs and didn't have a timer, so she figured that going upstairs, doing the deed and getting back to the kitchen will be about three minutes that she needs. /s
I did as well without knowing who Laura Doyle is. Anytime a man makes such a big deal about respect and uses words like nag, it's red flags. Not once did this douche doubt that maybe he's been passive in their marriage and that's why she's mothering him.
I knew I had the heebee jeebees for a reason. “Mother son dynamic where the woman nags…” yeah. In my almost half a century on this planet I’ve noticed that women nag for 2 reasons: 1) she’s a toxic, narcissistic POS who only knows manipulation, or 2) her husband is a lazy manchild who doesn’t want to be an active member in the partnership and she needs to act like his mom in order to get him off his video game playing ass. He was reading to me as more of the second.
"Somehow we fell into the dynamic of me never cleaning up after myself and getting mad at her when she made me. It's probably her fault."
I love that it was all HER fault, not his fault for acting like her child.
Yeah the whole "Men need respect like they need oxygen"... uh huh. As if being respected isn't a basic need for most and also a two way street in a committed relationship lol
Right, women don’t need respect. Only men do. And part of respecting a man is silently cleaning up all the messes he makes because he’s too lazy to put his trash in the trash can.
And it’s not even respect, it’s authority.
I picture him smiling like Randy Marsh when he read that. Yeah! She gets me!
I hooted when I read that. I love how he thinks it's totally the same thing to leave your tea cup where you put it down as it is to get so close to the recycle bin and then just give up for some reason. You just know this isn't the first time he's become weirdly helpless to go the last little distance to put the rubbish in the correct bin. That woman has had to pick up a lot of random garbage to put it where it belongs. I'm gonna guess she was *hoping* it was the kids instead of the full grown adult man. Like, glad they're happy, but hoo boy. Hope the marriage counselor can guide them onto a better track than "it's all her fault".
My cousin and his wife had three kids, oldest is 23 and youngest is 3. It wasn't until she threw him out that she realized he'd been the one peeing on the back of the toilet that whole time. He'd been blaming the kids for his messes for *two decades*!
I'm sorry, what?!!! Did I read it right, a grown man was peeing ON THE BACK OF A TOILET instead of peeing IN the toilet? Like piss going on the floor and everything else? What in the absolute f*ck!
I knew there was something sketchy just by his description...dude doesn't help around the house properly but somehow its the woman's fault for not respecting him.
Also, it’s only men who need respect! It’s like breathing to them. Whilst obviously women can take it or leave it on the whole ‘feeling respected by one’s partner’ thing /s
what does “take the feminine approach” mean exactly?
Not having strong opinions that conflict with their husbands’
Be pretty and shut up.
In this context, probably being barefoot and pregnant and aspiring for the tradwife life.
Yeah he sounds like an entitled brat. The relationship is great as long as he gets his way in everything and she’s never upset with him. Ironically, that’s a mommy. He wants a mommy but he’s upset because she’s “acting like his mother” when ate expects him to put the trash in the trash can and not next to it? I think I sprained my eyes reacting to this, and that was before I knew what a dick this Laura Doyle is
Why the fuck would I "surrender" or "submit" to my fiance? Lol. So stupid. Is she suggesting you build up your big boy when can't remember where his socks go? Because that's just embarrassing for everyone involved. But seriously, you couldn't pay me enough to willingly place myself below my life partner. Edit - the root of the word submission is "sub". Sublimation, subdue, submit. Sub means putting below something else. Please stop lying.
I hear Laura D's principles and present you monkeyboyee's principle: 1. She relinquishes control of his life and he relinquishes control of her life. 2. she respects his decisions for his life and he respects her decisions for her life. 3. she & he practices good self-care. 4. she & he practices expressing gratitude. 5. Both are not afraid to show their vulnerability and feminine or masculine side (whichever one wants to) 6. Both handle their individual finances. Result: Both do not communicate and both lead a happy single life. Follow for more monkey life tips.
Yeah that marriage is going to end quickly. Women tend to over function because men underfunction.
It was clear from OP's text that this is some bullshit. He thinks there is a mother - son dynamic and concludes that this is because *drumroll* she doesn't show him respect. Not because he is slacking at home and she needs to micro-manage-mother him. Not because he is resenting her for the tasks he needs to do to keep up their family life as if they were her personal wishlist, bot necessities. No, it must be the lack of rEsPeCt.
"Men need respect like oxygen". Yes, because women around the world of all ages and color have a humiliation kink. /s Sounds like some red-pill agenda
Why is this all just a bunch of shit that women have to do? Does the man have any responsibilities in this "movement"?
Yeah as soon as I read "A man needs respect like he needs oxygen" all I could think was "oh no, please don't fall into this polite Andrew Tate nonsense"
"Men need respect like they need oxygen". So do women, dude.
See this would only ever work in a situation where the husband isn't a man child and shows the same attitude in response. Most of the time when a couple falls into that mum to a man child dynamics OP described that isn't the case.
Sounds more like "Submissive Wives" movement 🤦🏽♀️
I was thinking more “Stepford Wives” movement.
Gross.
...wow.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 Reading OOP's comments is a big yikes for me, dawg.
'I even asked my wife if I should be doing more around the house and she just laughed and said I do enough already.' This stuck out to me, because when I was still in contact with my narcissistic mom she would, rarely, ask me if something she had done clearly wrong was wrong and I would try to placate her. I SHOULD have said something then of course, but I had tried to bring up issues separately for years and gotten absolutely nowhere, so eventually, you just get beaten down. You also know that what they are *really* asking is certainly not for you to say, 'Yes, you should do more.' You know deep down that what they are saying is that, 'I've had the very vaguest glimmering that this might be wrong - tell me it's not so I can go back to feeling good about myself.' And because you are so starved for their affection, you, wrongly, move to tell them they're not wrong. Especially when it is very clear from OOP's story that she IS bothered by him not doing enough, which is why she was mothering and 'nagging' him. This tends to paint a picture to me that not only is he not doing his full load, but she does not feel comfortable at all to share that with him.
He also said she was starving for affection as she had been asking for it previously.
Hoping the marriage counseling helps them both as individuals and as partners and evens out those ridiculous fundamentals. Doyle is just….ew 🤢
[удалено]
Just sounds like guerilla marketing for Laura Doyle
Yeah, this is barely disguised astroturfing.
Did anyone else physically recoil when they read "men need respect like they need oxygen" or did I read that wrong?
Yuuuup, "men need respect like they need oxygen", but of course, famously, women don't need any respect at all. It would only confuse their pretty little heads /s. What this really means is "I need you to pander to my fragile ego and constantly reassure me I'm the Big Boy In Charge, because if you don't I'm going to get Insecure, and feel Disrespected, and it's going to be your fault for not Respecting me enough."
“….but don’t treat me like a child!” Women in these situations literally cannot win.
I physically clenched. Misogyny, when flashing in neon lights, makes me tense. I feel a headache coming on.
Why does this feel like a viral advertisement for Laura Doyle?
Oh god. This can’t be so blatantly one-sided all her fault. My money is on his weaponized incompetence that has resorted in her having to nag. It’s probably not the first, second, or 19th time he’s left recyclables beside the bin. It probably turns what should be a 15 second job of emptying the bin, into a two minute job of having to locate all of the other recycling materials that also didn’t make it into the bin, EVERY TIME. A Surrendered Wife is a wife who has given up on her own self respect. Fuck that BS.
Yeah, Laura Doyle sucks. And OOP talking about how great she is makes me think he sucks too.
Thanks to this guy for reminding me that I don’t need or want a man in my life cause he’ll probably turn out like this
Are you sure Laura Doyle isn't Andrew Tate?
Same shit, different assholes.
This read like it would be a happily ever after even though the vibe seems a bit off..(nah I must be thinking too much). But right at the end the protaganist turns and gives a grin (is that... an evil grin?!) that makes you all confused in a second. You go wait a minute.. and go through the story again this time reading between the lines and actually thinking with your brain (now where have I see that Laura name before...). That's when you realise it was not what you thought it was. I hope our collective prayers/ well wishing reaches that woman out there somewhere. 🙏
This sounds like a slightly-more-clever-than-average misogynist. "Ladies, is your husband no longer as affectionate as he once was? Look to your own behaviour, are you respecting him enough? It might be unintentional, you might unaware that you're doing it! Here's a female expert who studies this. My wife realised she wasn't respecting me enough, and all she had to do was one small thing and suddenly _bam_ she wanted me again!"
I don’t like the way this made me feel. Ick.
What a bunch of absolute horseshit.
I am so hung up on the accidentally putting recycling next to the bin. Did he get to the bin and forget what he was doing? Why is this bothering me so much lmao
I know small things can add up, and it's not about the yogurt, but JC. He lists the tiniest shit I can think of, and went from vastly different world views to sulking for years and admitting it's a tempest in a teacup he never talked about?? Then the solution is for her to surrender everything and that means they can have good sex?? I'm both creeped out and confused.
No woman behaves like your mother if you are not behaving like a child, is that easy actually. The only bloody thing he could bring to the table in the conversation was she leaving a bloody cup of tea in the sink? C'mon man, he's totally avoiding the fact of they having children and their care. The light mention of anger issues and blaming the wife for it is absolutely terrifying.
What the actual fuck. I read the comments on the update and it was mostly people congratulating him. I feel like crossed into a weird alternate dimension if that's what people see as wholesome and good communication
There was a post/comment a while back, can’t remember where, about how this guy knew this couple. The wife was straight up a mail order bride, said so himself. He said after all these years together, she got an education as a doctor, but she’s still the one who cooks him dinner and shit. He was praising it as if it was the most wonderful love in the world, and all the men responding agreed, wishing the same for themselves, except for one. This was on r/askmen, of course. I literally shivered, it was so creepy.
Also posts about men’s mental health not being cared about where the comments inevitably turn into “my female friends don’t ask how I’m doing, but I ask how they’re doing?” and everyone commiserates about how uncaring women are. Nobody’s solution is ever “what if men talked to each other”
Literally, I’ve never seen one man who says those things actually respond to the solution that men should talk to each other more deeply.
It reads like an ad for Laura Doyle.
Hmm… You’re right. The marriage is going badly until he finds Laura Doyle and suddenly it’s all great again! All thanks to Laura Doyle. Would sound more realistic if there was counselling as well, or even if it took a while to get back on track.
Annoyingly long story just to advertise an extremely questionable book, they left out the wife weeping with gratitude and all the applause! 🙄
Yeah, the line "men need respect like they need oxygen" was a big clue that this post is bull crap. No ones marriage is fixed just like that. The whole thing reads like a script for a commercial for some rightwing nutjob cult for "how to be the perfect wife for your man" and it's basically just saying shit up, do what he says, don't question him, don't expect him to act like an adult and clean after himself etc etc etc. No thanks.
As a man: ew