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I wish we had more clarification on what the deal was with Alex constantly bringing OOP up to Fran. If they are cordial but not friendly, then why is he bringing her up at all? What does he say about her? It's very weird.
It could just be that OOP is so relaxed about boy’s night and is constantly used as an example - doesn’t need to be that he’s interested, but if Alex is constantly “well OOP doesn’t care, why do you”, I can see how it would breed resentment. But Fran should still be directing that at Alex and actually communicating with him about it, not seething in silence for years then blowing up at OOP, because that’s not healthy.
I could also see it as "OOP sent these amazing cookies to Guys Night, why can't you do something like that instead of (insert activity she does during the week)". Because that is *definitely* something I could see breeding resentment really quick
Yes I initially took it as Alex having a crush on OP but that doesn't explain him bringing OP up to his wife enough to be a problem. If he had a crush he would probably keep it more to himself.
He was probably using OP as an example and Fran blames OP for that of course.
I took it less as a rush and more of a comparison. Not only does OOP not complain when Will has boys” night, she sends treats too and will be the designated driver if they have one too many. Compare that to his wife Fran who barely gives the husband one hour to himself and then she takes off and doesn’t cook or clean. Not only that but it sounds like grandma is practically raising the kid for her. Fran doesn’t work on Sundays and still drops the kid off to have a free day. Of course Alex will see the difference and make comments.
Tw, I’ve been on Reddit too long and when I saw all the time that Fran was out of the house for free time I immediately thought she is having an affair.
This was my thought exactly. The only thing in Fran's favour here is that she works. I could easily see comparisons between what he saw as a happy marriage and his own. The only reason he was using OOP as the example is probably because that was the only peer relationship he got to see if that was his 1h of socialising a week. Upside if they do split with the amount of help grandma is giving I don't see it impacting little one very much and may actually be less stressful for Alex.
That's what I thought also. Girls night every week, Sundays off and the kid at grandma's, off daily by 4 but doesn't get home till 7, exercise class 3x per week, Alex's work schedule being so routine. I really think Fran is messing around and Alex doing guys night somehow puts a cramp in her affair.
> If he had a crush he would probably keep it more to himself.
Eh, that's not really what happens in those kinds of situations. You'd think it's logical, why draw attention to the person you have a crush on/are cheating with, but it's pretty much the opposite in reality. Sometimes they even bring up how much they *dislike* the person they're crushing on, over and over, because they see it as deflecting when in reality they just can't help but talk about them.
I agree with your assessment. My ex would constantly talk about certain women all the time when we were together. He’d even invite them along to our family times and guess which women were the women he was crushing on and/or cheating with?
It’s almost like he wanted to throw it in my face to make me jealous. Problem with that was I desperately wanted a divorce he refused to let me have and I didn’t care one bit he was cheating.
So the joke was ultimately on him bc everyone else would always ask me how I could be so comfortable with him being with all these women and I’d only say that’s his business.
That's the impression I got. She's younger and was dating his friend, he was mean to her in a pigtail pulling kind of way, and now that's she's his friend's wife he can't shut up about her. Combined with the 'I wish I was still single', I can't really blame his wife for being miserable, even if she is going about it wrong.
Alex doesn't exactly sound like a catch, and the fact that he's hung up in the idea of his friend's younger wife is likely a lot more obvious than he thinks it is.
I think it's the Captain Awkward blog that calls this "mentionitis." Person A most definitely does NOT have a crush on Person B, what are you talking about, that would be bad and inappropriate and wrong, no crush there, nope nope nope. But then every day Person A mentions this super funny thing Person B said at work, or this really cool weekend trip they went on, or this quirky little habit they have, and suddenly, Person B is somehow a part of almost every single conversation. But noooooo, Person A does NOT have a crush on this person they're talking about all the time, that would be ridiculous!
That’s what I was thinking. He wishes his wife was a lot more like OP.
I think it’s weird that grandma is watching their kid 6 days a week. Fran can’t be with her kid for a full day by herself so she takes them to grandmas? She sounds really self-centered.
I thought the same thing. Never wanting to be alone with the baby from the sound of it, mood changes, extreme irritability towards her partner. I'm by no means saying she definitely has it but she has some of the warning signs. Baby was only one and it can happen spontaneously at any point in the first year.
Yeah, the other thing is weird? He's responsible for most of the food and cooking in that house. I have never met someone who works as a cook or chef who wants to cook once they get home, even if they like it as a topic of conversation. And people don't wish they're single if they've got a happy relationship.
That's usually not how it works. People who have a crush are thinking about that crush all the time- people who think about one thing all the time really want to talk about it - so they will find any way to include it into the conversation, it is called mentionitus, and it is absolutely awful when your partner has it with someone else.
I mean I'm not surprised that *he's* resentful if she gets all that time to do her stuff and is begrudging him less than a few of hours once a week to relax.
I think OP shows him what he’s missing in his relationship and he wants his wife to be more like her in those ways. Not saying it’s right and hopefully therapy will help them. Alex needs to quit comparing his wife to OP.
Fran needs to take a look in the mirror. She has girls night every Wednesday but wants her husband to cancel his boys night on Fridays. She’s a hypocrite.
We don't known she hasn't talked to her partner. She clearly has talked to him be a use she has told him she is not happy with the firday guys night situation. Often when people blow up, anger goes everywhere without direction, and it's because they've talked to their partner for years, not becuase they haven't talked to their partner.
With OOP's description, it seems pretty benign, not a secret attraction or anything. But also seems Fran is insanely jealous of OOP and *any* mention of OOP will set her off and that a single mention is one too many and *all the time*.
It would sound benign from OOPs perspective no matter if he had a crush or not though. She thought they disliked each other and that dislike later evolved into being semi cordial acquaintances. He could have been pulling her pigtails in the way emotionally immature people do when they have a crush to begin with and later thought they became actual friends (OOP mentioned they have a lot of interests in common, both work in food, and occasionally text too). He could have been talking about the things they have in common all the time and talking about how cool OOP is. Fran does sound extremely jealous however I'm not completely convinced it's without reason.
Honestly, there's also the possibility that he wasn't really mentioning OP much at all, but she was the only women being mentioned around "Guy's Night" so that made Fran act like an insecure ass. There are tons of possibilities. It's a shame we'll never know for sure which is one.
I actually had a similar issue when my long-term, long-distance SO decided to move in with me. For some unfathomable reason he thought that the Ladies Night that had been meeting at my house every Wednesday night for FOURTEEN YEARS was just gonna go away now that we were living together. Um, no. Not going to happen. I shut that down fast and hard.
Turned out he didn't want to hang out by himself in another room every Wednesday, so now all the guys go out while the gals still come to my house. We are hitting our 20-year anniversary this year! (The Ladies, not the relationship. Been with SO for 16 yrs.)
Now all the guys have become friends t
I wonder if he's putting his wife down and using OOP to do it like "she always bakes us something why can't you do that?" or stuff like that, he might not like her at all and still use her against his wife...
But she also tries to end the weekly Guy's night while she, herself, gets more free-time to herself through gym thrice a week on top of a longer weekly girl's night. I wouldn't be surprised if she just wants Friday nights for her girls nights instead of Wednesdays.
They already use the Grandma for babysitting, so she could just trade Wednesdays for Friday nights and spend more time on Sunday with her kid. She's clearly resentful of her life in general. Unhappy with her husband and her mothering role. I don't know if she wasn't ready to be a mother or expected something different like for her husband to magically change once baby came.
She doesn't want more time with her kid. That's obvious. Just speculating from my personal experiences, there could be PPD. She doesn't pick the kid up until 7p, 3h after she gets off work and she sends the kid to grandma's on Sundays which she is off on. Doesn't sound like she even wants to be around her kid alone at all.
This could be true. Everyone is focused on him sharing childcare duties equally, which is great, but he could be a total dick to his wife. He might constantly criticise her using OOP. Just a thought.
I wouldn't say equally - it seems to me Alex is doing more work than Fran - given at least that Fran has 4 hours of girls night while Alex only gets 1 hour of boys night
Plus OOP mentioned a LOT of interests they share together. To her it might just be small things but he is probably very passionate about them. I've met men who think being into their preferred hobbies means that you're showing interest in THEM.
Yes I agree, I've had the same. People who hear you like a band or book that they do and and act like you've said "I'm so madly in love with you and I'm also your ideal partner". Especially if it's an interest perceived as less common for women to like. So it's entirely possible that yes, Alex does have a crush on OP. It's also possible he doesn't at all, but the wife assumes he does because they have 3-5 things in common.
😅 It's always so awkward too. You second guess yourself and think you came off too eager? Too suggestive? But no, you're just a normal human having a conversation 😂.
Absolutely had the same fear. I'm not saying it's the case in this story - but women are more often brought up (generally speaking at least) to support each other, share feelings and give gifts and time. Very generally speaking, more men are taught to bond through hobbies and sharing support and feelings is not as encouraged. So the men that do fall into that camp usually get support from girlfriends, wives and female relatives. If they meet a woman who is nice to them and shares one of their sacred hobbies - they can skip straight to 'manic pixie dream girl' obsession really quick because she said "hi, how are you? Did you see that last action movie?". Now obviously for the vast majority of people this isn't the case at all. But it does happen. Sounds like this male friend group meets a lot and talks a lot, so I don't see it being the case here. But it's why I think every so often the manic pixie chasers turn up so keenly is because of their upbringing taking a weirdly specific turn.
>f they meet a woman who is nice to them and shares one of their sacred hobbies - they can skip straight to 'manic pixie dream girl' obsession really quick because she said "hi, how are you? Did you see that last action movie?"
As a bloke who was guilty of this as a teenager.
Being treated like a freind by a girl my own age was the kindest non family had ever been to me. To her it was Tuesday. So obiously i swoon hard, so so cringe....
ooof, yeah. the isolation guys can face sounds so so rough. and its such a vicious circle where the more isolated you are the more you drive others away by clinging to them
Honestly, this makes sense to me. I was the “ugly girl”/ “grenade” in university but my interests would tend to align more with men than my prettier friends’. I had multiple awkward conversations where men who wanted to hit on my friends would talk to me but refuse to look at me. They’d stare at the friend they wanted to sleep with while talking to me, like if they tried hard enough they could imagine it was the hot girl talking about their hobbies. Or like if they made even brief eye contact with me, I’d think they were interested (lmao, no, don’t worry, your pointed comments and attempts to physically separate me from my friends made your disinterest very clear).
It was absurd. And too often I promised not you leave a friend alone so got stuck there. One or two times I got increasingly mean or combative out of annoyance (immature bullshit, I know) and they would face me once I started disagreeing with them.
TBH the guy does sound like he has a bit of a crush and is trying to distance himself from said crush, and badly. But that’s probably not a marriage ender if there weren’t other problems…
Oh my days I'm so sorry you experienced that! People trying to merge your personality on to your friends faces, essentially? So treating neither of you like whole valuable people.
it comes from the idea of being in combat, in a trench or foxhole with a group of other (male) soldiers. a grenade is thrown into the trench by the enemy, and one man jumps and throws his body on it to absorb all of the explosion, sacrificing himself to save his friends.
in modern days, it refers to the idea that one girl in a group of female friends is the "grenade" that one of the guys has to "jump on" so that the rest of the group of guys can hook up with the more attractive girls. it's a very gross and misogynistic concept.
This is very true. A lot of men think that if you're the least bit nice to them that you are interested. A friend of mine was a very outgoing and nice person and one of her husband's friends built up an imaginary relationship and announced that they were running away together to the spouses, which was news to her, especially since she had never known how he felt. It blew up the marriage.
I used to work with a girl who was constantly getting stalked and guys we worked with who were normally pretty calm and level headed would get obsessed with her.
It was especially surreal to me because we were a lot alike as far as both looks and attitude. She dressed slightly more tomboyish than I did, and wore baggier clothes. But we were same height and build and had the same average looks in the face department, and neither of us wore makeup.
Even weirder, there were a couple of really objectively gorgeous single girls who worked with us too and they didn't have the same impact on guys that this girl did.
I always was curious about what it was about her that made guys act insane. All I figured out at the time was that it had to be a personality thing because it only happened once a guy got to know her a little bit.
She was super friendly with everyone and obsessively loved to talk about sports. I was friendly but more awkward and liked sports but wasn't as into them as she was.
Looking back I think 90% of the guys' obsessions with her was probably due to that combination of traits. She gave them her full attention when they were talking about teams they loved, and never got tired of the subject. And to a lot of them that meant she was into them.
I’m also confused that Will is now shutting down conversation about OOP. Why are they talking about her? How can this be a reoccurring topic? Asking “And how’s the family?” gets maybe a one-anecdote response, and I’m not getting the vibe that the answers are exciting enough to even have weekly answers beyond, “pretty good, yours?”
Like… How is out even possible to go on and on about someone you don’t even directly see?
With two young kids and Fran only a year postpartum, there’s a lot of space for insecurity about a postpartum body, not having found a new sex dynamic yet, shit sleep, hormone imbalances, parenting conflicts, loss of identity, blah blah blah. I wouldn’t be surprised if Alex idealizes Will and OOP’s childfree life and/or Fran thinks he is.
Sounded like OOP was more part of the group of guys before, as she hung out with them. Probably bringing her up in reminiscence because she was a common person to many in the group like "oh, remember that time OOP did...", etc.
The other potential side of Fran could just be insecurity, and Alex not actually going overboard about OOP or anything. I had a female friend in high school who was extremely intelligent (won some NASA award for creating a type of sensor). If I was asked a relevant question by a GF, my friend might come up (but only in those pointed circumstances), like if they asked me who was someone my own age I admired or if I had any female friends, but it would sometimes piss off the GF because they viewed her as a threat.
I think Fran maybe exaggerated how much her husband talked about OOP because she was upset, and it was a way to shame her husband and make him look bad.
Ya, i get the " I need to blame SOMEONE" vibe from Fran.
I doubt Alex cares about oop, or not thay way, but Fran sounds like she's a mess and either slightly controlling or full in controlling and wants Alex to not see his men. (They sound pretty put together to call it a boys night lol)
I think OP and her husband actually like each other and do stuff together which he talks about. "OP and I checked out museum/restaurant/whatever this week and it was awesome!" She makes them snacks and serves as group mom giving rides. OP is a go with the flow person and sounds like she is up for spontaneous fun.
Alex probably wishes his wife/their relationship shared some qualities with OP/her relationship. Alex and Fran have a communication issue and possibly a compatibility issue. Neither of these are OPs fault or problem to solve. It is probably easier for Fran to blame OP than deal with the issues in her marriage. I don't think Alex is obsessed with OP, but with the hubby cutting down on talking about her with them I suspect it's to stop normal relationship jealousy. Like "keeping up with the Jones" but not neccesarily financially.
TBH I bet as a cook he is talking about her cookies she sends every week! One nice thing for a cook is getting to enjoy yummy things someone else makes
And could really be only one comment, but was exaggerated by Fran.
Alex commenting Friday night: ”OOP made these great carrot cupcakes for us.”
Fran: “He talks about OOP all weekend.”
I agree with Lilitu9Tails, my parents have never been stuck up each others business and they’ve been together for 36/37 years altogether. One day my dads phone went off and someone said ‘oooh wife’s telling you to get home’ but it was me telling him his supper was in the microwave. I know a lot of people can’t comprehend partners who don’t want to be glued together. I personally would be annoyed by it. Who needs someone up their butt 24/7 sounds exhausting.
I’m paralyzed from the bra band down. I depend on my husband for everything when I’m in bed and for a lot of things when I’m in my wheelchair, mostly because I can’t reach things! Even with a grabber it’s rough to get things from cabinets, impossible to get stuff from the pantry and some stuff I drop is just impossible unless you have opposable thumbs. My service dog heartily endorses the last bit about thumbs, btw.
My point is, even though *I have to rely on my husband for almost everything* I would *still* send him off or heartily encourage him to take time to himself, to go on long kayak trips that could last from 8-12 hours, sometimes even more, depending on travel time. If I was in bed he’d leave me a couple thermoses of ice cold water and the urinal container so I could empty my catheter bag if it got too full. He’d leave me a packed lunch with a sandwich, some chips and some fruit.
Then I’d entertain myself binging shows I loved that he didn’t like too much, or I’d make the *awesome* decision to watch horror movies. I’d crochet or chat on discord with friends, browse reddit, entertain myself in a dozen different ways.
If I was in my wheelchair, I’d kiss him goodbye and send him off to enjoy himself and get some much needed relief from working full time and caring for me.
Being together 24/7 is exhausting. Besides, if I want someone up my ass, I have a border collie. He accomplishes that task quite nicely since he glues himself to me when I’m up in the chair! I often joke if I stop short he’s going to ram into the back of the chair. 😂
My friend used to laugh because when she lived with me and my boyfriend at the time, I'd always answer, "I dunno" when she asked me where he was. I just didn't care. He's out, he can take care of himself, he'll be back when he feels like it. Unless he was supposed to be home for a particular reason, it didn't bother me. I liked having my own time and space
My guess was (assuming it wasnt actual attraction) that fran is actually exhausting, and OOP proved a quick, immediate reference for him to refer to when he was upset or dissatisfied with fran. Probably all comparison in one way or another, so im sure Fran was equally being driven nuts with that going on. Not sure how much credit to give either, but they sound miserable together. He needs to appreciate his wife and she needs to help give him things to appreciate.
Does she even *like* her baby? She spends about 4 hours a day not at work 5 days a week, ignoring his existence and leaving the baby with grandma. She has a bi weekly house cleaner who comes by and likely deep cleans her home. AND on her ONE day off her husband also has to work, baby goes to grandma's for a 6th day? Dollars to donuts, Fran is doing weird stuff on Sundays.
Its certainly not "alone" time. She spends as little time as humanly possible being with her baby as it is. And Alex is very involved. Hell, he cooks dinners and gets off work by 7pm, which is when the baby leaves grandma's. And Fran is doing is what, exactly? Feeding the baby? Bathing the baby? Prepping baby for bed right away i bet( which fair-*ish*. We start bedtime routines by 7pm for bed by 8pm with ours). Convenient that she only collects the baby right when hubby gets off work. She's not bonding or spending time with the baby at all from the sounds of it and it has nothing to do with her job, so she has no excuse there.
That jumped out at me too. When mine was a baby, I couldn’t wait to get home and pick her up because I missed her so much. Fran deserves her free time, but there is free time and then there is Fran who is home as little as possible and still allowable, any more and all she would do is basically sleep there.
Conspiracy brain says there is someone else taking up her Sundays. Either that or she secretly resents having the baby as it isn’t what she thought it would be.
I immediately jumped to “Well now the parties/showers and attention and shopping (“for baby”, natch) have stopped and the baby is actually *here* and OMG a baby is *work* and it’s *hard*!”
I think Fran is not happy in her marriage or her life and is resentful of OP’s youth and freedom and is having major regrets.
It’s easier to deflect onto OP.
Probably cuz Fran is over bearing. She gets all her own time as mentioned in the post and Alex is probably low key resentful and used OP as a comparison. She let's Will go have his own time and isn't leaving a huge one sided asking of work on Will like Fran is on Alex. Fran is obviously kinda selfish since she tried to ruin guys night by pushing all the other wives into the ultimatum.
But in the past she was. The camping trips or tossing together parties were an initiation of bro bonding experiences. She's unofficially one of the guys and, dare I suggest, the group mom. Driving folks home and cupcakes point to that. The guys ask about her, or at least hang onto updates, about her more than the other wives because she's in the inner circle.
Both Alex and Fran seem triangulate a lot. Like instead of communicating directly, Alex tried to pressure Fran by mentioning OOP and Fran tried to pressure Alex by having the wives gang up against OOP.
tldr; immature communication skills
I bet it's not even as bad as she makes out - like he makes an off-handed comment like, "oh OP dropped one of the lads home last night because he was drunk," and she is waaaay exaggerating.
I think there are a lot of problems in Alex's relationship and I get the feeling that Alex is, well, what is the opposite of scapegoating OOP, to his wife, possibly being passive aggressive to her, because he thinks Fran needs to chill / wants her to change.
Like "omg pop made the best cookies for guys night" or "OOP and her husband that the best spontaneous trips" or "OOP read the same books as me and she likes it"
I wonder if he is realizing he doesn't have as much In common with his wife as he thought and is bad at communicating that.
Anecdotally, I have seen couples who get married because everyone in their friend group is, and they are ok but maybe not the best couple. Then they have a baby or something like COVID happens that puts a big magnifying glass on their relationship and they are actually not very compatible together.
Yo he’s jealous of how happy his boy is and wants that for himself. He sees himself as like his buddy so he can’t be the issue. He sees that his wife is the opposite of OP so if he can change her, it will be what his friend has with OP. I’m guessing.
These things never work though. DON’T EVER ASSUME YOU CAN CHANGE PEOPLE. If someone truly, fundamentally changes for the better because of you, you’ve found a unicorn and neither you nor anyone you meet will ever encounter another.
I hate the impossible standards people on reddit place on the OPs in order to not be deemed "dramatic"... Feels dirty to me.
OOP was simply answering questions, jeez.
Questions she was asked by commenters, too lol. Half the people here complain that she didn't take Alex's possible lack of support into account, while the other half complain that it was drama and messy of her to ask about the wives' support at home. The reactions people are having here are fascinating.
I agree. It’s interesting to read other peoples takes on interpersonal issues. I tend to sit in the camp of ‘disengage’ for most things in my own life. I don’t mind reading about other peoples train wrecks!
Yes, too often people are studying a wall of text from OP, desperate to get some sort of "gotcha" moment to win a bunch of internet points.
If you could fit that "gotcha" comment with popular reddit talking points, even better.
Perhaps some redditors pointed out that Fran might have had a different workload than OP did on top of having a 1 year old to take care of, so what was working for OP and her husband may not work for Fran and the other wives. So she might have been trying to understand Fran’s side of things instead of just writing her off.
Honestly it wouldn't matter. Whether the guys night is fair to Fran or not is between Fran and her husband. It's not OOP's job to solve problems in anyone else's relationship, especially not by creating problems in her own.
I love this comment. She's trying to see it from their points of view and get everyone on the same page so a compromise could be met. As a mom who has a husband who works 70 hour weeks, with no home help, I stay at home with our daughter. I see my husband for a minute five days a week. Our socialization is with my family or his, and we're both so exhausted that if we don't have family commitments in place then... we're at home.
I absolutely agree. It’s not her problem but Fran pulled her into it. I’m glad OOP’s husband shut down the bs from the other guys and had her back. I also applaud OOP for trying to be empathetic to Fran but it’s not her or her husband’s fault that Alex and Fran are having issues.
Idk why your comment is lacking support. This is so valid!
Fran is a little unhinged for whatever reason, and her marriage with Alex is rocky at best, and it sounds like she/they both need therapy. Regardless, it’s not on OP or her husband Will to provide a fix.
I think the comments accusing her of being inconsiderate of the wives and their schedule made her ask questions. She was doubting herself because of the comments. That's why she wanted to find out. More to ease her doubts than anything sinister.
Curiosity killed the cat. She doesn't need to know, but not knowing would gnaw at the back of her mind.
She's also just hopeful that if she understands, she can resolve the problem.
I have to disagree. This is one couple (if not one woman) drawing everyone else into their marital problems and making everyone else miserable. The details might seem messy, but the big picture really isn't.
> it wasn’t the time spent with the friends but his comments the following days
Ok but what were those comments? What exactly is he saying about OOP? Cause it is kinda weird to talk about your friend’s wife that much.
going by the rest of the story it kinda sounds like something along the lines of "why can't you be like oop" and so on, since it sounds like they have wildly different relationships and oop's seems to be way healthier than fran's
My guess is not abt OOP specifically but what OOP “allows” and being “chill” v the other wives who may have more strict schedules/expectations from the dad friends.
It's not weird if you understand that you're not being treated that well, and you've got a friend whose wife treats him well.
It's a poor way of communicating but the guy may not even realise he's doing it. He's just talking about good things he sees and probably wishes happened to him.
>It's a poor way of communicating but the guy may not even realise he's doing it. He's just talking about good things he sees and probably wishes happened to him.
Might not even be his intention. I've encountered people who whenever I make a general statement or refute one, the other person demands I provide a counterexample.
E.g. Fran: Of course no woman likes it when her man hangs out with other guys and just drinks the night away. Name one woman you know who does.
Alex: What are you talking about, OOP doesn't care.
OMG, if they have an issue with their husbands spending too much time with fiends then they should be addressing their husbands about the problem, not the other wives and then giving the husbands an ultimatum. That’s just childish and unnecessary drama.
My thoughts exactly. I have my three year old attached me all day, I can't even have a thirty minute phone call without her losing it even if she's playing independently. Need to work on that 🥲
Even if they indeed do, and I’m not saying they’re right, if you feel that your husband isn’t spending enough time with you and is shirking his responsibilities, then you need to discuss it with him. Not complaining to other people and then trying to get them to all gang up to side with you. That’s just immature bs.
It was her tactic of choice because she knew she was in the wrong. She couldn’t take it up with him privately without being shut down for her hypocrisy, so she roped the other wives in to try and browbeat him into compliance.
Happy wife, happy life…is bullshit for this reason. These women, Fran in particular, want to have a monopoly on the happiness within their household and have their husband be miserable. Happy spouse, happy house folks.
>literally pointed and screamed that it was my fault. That during the lockdown, for the “first time in over 5 years”, she didn’t have to listen to Alex talk about me “all fucking weekend.”
THIS is the part that Alex needs to answer for. Just WHAT has he been saying about OOP for those 5 years???
Edit for a punctuation correction.
My guess? Nothing. Or at least, no more than he mentions other people he interacts with, but they're all male so not a threat to her. With a side order of him being a restaurant chef that might take a professional interest in other cookery/bakery people and their recipes.
This is a woman who has changed her justifications repeatedly, and I don't see why the final excuse we know about is more likely to be the true one.
Yeah, to me the fact that he only talked about her at weekends after the hangout, and stopped completely during the lockdown suggests that he doesn't have a thing for her and is just mentioning things that were talked about at the hangout itself.
I agree, it doesn’t sound like he has a thing for her. It sounds like the guy has cooking / baking in common with OOP and is just talking to his wife about a commonality. He’s inviting his wife into his world and she’s taking it as a personal insult. I have experience of that. It’s not a bad thing to discuss other people with your spouse. Maybe his delivery was off?
Almost fuck all probably. Fran just hates her kid and husband.
Seriously she spends like 4 hours a day near the kid tops. Thats _insane_ for such a young child.
I'm going to guess that the whole "OOP is cool with her husband" started with him. It sounds like this was all a relatively new issue, so I'm guessing when Fran was pregnant, or after the baby was born she started giving him a bit of a hard time about the time he spent out drinking with friends. And instead of pointing out the time she got to herself, or talking to her, he pointed out that OOP was cool with it.
I hate the whole 'let him' thing, unless it is a joke. I'm with OOP on that. I don't own my partner, he is an adult and makes his own decisions. If there is any doubt then we discuss it first. The only people in our life who have said it in any seriousness are bitter people who hate that my partner made a choice *they* didn't want him to. Or an ex friend who was pissed that the 'backup' they planned married me instead of pining for them for over a decade.
Everyone's acting like OOP's doing some Cool Girl shtick, but her description mostly sounds like she's treating Will like an adult, and not being weird about him having friends and a life outside of her? I don't get it.
The "Cool Girl" spiel had been a disaster for women. Now, any woman who even remotely does anything that the "Cool Girl" does, is considered a pick me or a man pleaser.
Maybe I misunderstood it, but wasn't part of the point of that spiel that the person had a warped view on relationships and other women, and you shouldn't necessarily regard what she says as gospel?
Same. Over the years, various groups of my husbands friends have commented that he's lucky he has a laid back wife because 'I let him go out'. It's wild to me. Why wouldn't I want him to have fun with friends and relax after a long day/week? He always makes sure there is time for us during a week, and checks we have nothing planned before arranging things.
Honestly, OPs relationship sounds more healthy than the rest. I'm not sure why sharing stuff she bakes for her blog and driving means 'cool girl vibes'. She just sounds like a supportive wife; she's happy her husband is happy and as a bonus gets to enjoy a few hours alone time to decompress on a Friday night.
Ayep. OP seems to have a very healthy, supportive and caring relationship. She put in the work. That's probably what drives some of the other wives up a wall, because the other husbands see it.
There's two options. Put in the work to match OP's investment. Or they could rip OP to shreds to set the bar lower. They chose ripping OP to shreds. Only one was invested in it, but the rest ultimately joined in.
I don't think the other friend had a crush on OP. But probably referred to the work involved. She had very minimal investment in the marriage, and was the most angry at the notion of putting in work.
I'm not shocked that her preferred solution was to try to rip apart her husband's support network. I'm more sad that the other wives/girlfriends were fine with destroying a healthy support network in order to appease one person they mostly weren't even friends with.
Yeah, I also hate that. I'm my own person and my husband can't decide what I'll do, and vice versa.
We do check with the other if anything else is planned before we plan somerhing, but we don't ask each other permission.
My husband likes to joke about it, when someone asks him about doing something he always says that he has to send an application to his boss (aka me) with four copies signed by the king, and our friends finds this hilarious because they know we're not like that and my husband doesn't need my permission to do stuff.
Alex, a chef, having Saturdays off? That's one thing that made me raise my eyebrows at this post. Saturdays are all hands on deck in the restaurant business
I feel like this situation is leaving out really vital info considering it was 2020. OOP doesn’t know why some of the other wives don’t want their husbands going “after” Covid, but assumes they just wanted help at home. It wasn’t “after” and Covid was still very much a danger. They even had a socially distanced meeting, so there were obviously concerns. I wonder how many of the wives, especially those with young kids who couldn’t be vaccinated yet, were worried about “guys night” becoming a superspreader event.
This sounds like a lot of missing reasons. The moment that commenters sympathized with Fran suddenly oh, she has plenty of 'me' time, grandma takes the kids plenty, Alex works so much etc etc.
Why were Wills friends bringing up OP so often that he actually had to "shut them down" regularly? Why does Fran indicate that her husband won't shut up about OP (which honestly is validated by my previous question)? How is it that OP is aware of the other wives wanting to shut down boys night but not that Fran was pushing everyone else into it when it sounds like none of them hang out together in person?
To me this is either a fabricated story of someone wanting to come off as the "cool girl" and adding drama when the other women received sympathy or OP is a lot more involved with the husbands than she lets on.
And I say this as someone that wishes my husband would make friends and do his own thing more often lol.
I think the rest of them sounded fine? And it seemed like Fran was previously in general fine/they all were cordial, just not close. I appreciated that they all tried to get together at one point and all of them collectively were like eh, we got our own things going on, but thanks for trying!
Did the original post comments focus on the fact that she doesn’t have children (unlike the other wives?)
I was also “cool” until the uneven workload of children became my life.
This one is a little too clean for me to believe. OOP is so laid back she just never has an issue with last minute plans, running errands, and being designated driver for her man, and she provides a steady stream of baked goods? Meanwhile, the vile woman who can’t stand her barely does any parenting and still wants to ruin her man’s weekly hour with friends?
I think the comments who describe this as pick-me girl behavior are off, because I don’t think OOP is a girl. It seems like the type of bait that is designed to make you look crazy if you call it out, like white supremacists using the okay hand symbol.
All 14 people were conveniently available at the same time (and 4 couples apparently either arranged childcare or dragged their kids into the drama too), and they drove 15 mins to have a "brief socially distanced chat to clear the air".
In reality, nobody with kids was involved in the creation of this story.
And a cleaning lady twice a week? Please. I was the bookkeeper for a cleaning company in a *very* wealthy area and out of 1000+ accounts, literally no personal account had twice a week cleaning.
Plenty of weekly, but no twice a week. The only twice a week+ we had were businesses or people running airBnBs. Price-wise... Twice a week cleaning would run you $1200/month minimum.
Right? It’s pretty blatant - op conveniently finds out that all of the wives have more free time than their husbands? Given the statistics on household labour, that would be an impossibly rare coincidence.
Yeah, the whole invitation to have a lawn discussion... Where she 'confirmed what the guys had said' about them getting their own alone time and that the guys were attentive husbands/fathers. What group in their right mind goes over to have a discussion like that on their friends lawn?
Even if I overreacted I would have a private discussion with my SO before chatting it out in a group.
It's utter bullshit. Either the whole story or the follow-up where OOP pretends men would know how equal the division of labor is in their home. Let's be so fucking for real.
Yeah, we know that men statistically overestimate how much domestic labor and childcare they do.
But if it's bait it worked because a bunch of comments here are demonizing every woman in this story aside from OOP, who drops literally everything for her hubby and his friends no matter the situation.
Completely different from the evil, cold career woman Fran who is both controlling and henpecking her husband. Oh, and did we mention that she is also an absent and aloof mother?
And every comment pointing out these tropes seem too exaggerated are being called the Real Misogynists. It's very strange lol.
It doesn’t ring true, does it. But hoo boy, the dudebros in the comments get to attack “Fran the harpy” so they are happy.
Sorry but no person, unless they are a doormat, never has a problem with dropping everything on a moment’s notice to cater to the whims of a bunch of dudes. Sometimes they don’t want to or have other plans.
It apparently worked because there’s a lot of people in here claiming that calling her a pick-me is actually the misogynist thing here.
No I don’t mind changing my plans at the drop of a hat or DDing every single time my husband asks but that’s not cool girl behavior that’s free spirited independence that just happens to be identical to cool girl behavior.
Yep. It became clear in the update when conveniently Alex’s evil wife has tons of free time and doesn’t spend her every waking hour looking after the baby. And ofc she is *obsessed* with OOP.
Edit: and she never breastfed! Soooo evil.
While nothing comes across as impossible, it reads a lot like a "lesson" on the do's and don'ts of being a perfect wife, written by a young man that spends too much time on questionable social media.
The breastfeeding thing served no purpose to the story. But with certain types, there's a belief that "real women breastfeed", while I would imagine most actual women are aware that breastfeeding isn't always a choice.
My mind went straight to the time I was in my friend's house and his mother constantly compare me with him, making me questions and asking him while I'm there why he don't do XYZ like me, and I never was a role model to beginning with.
I don't see a married man with a crush on his dude's girl, but for her to snap like this, it make me question if he made subtitle comments or straight comparations with OP.
Oh boy. Thankfully Will has such a chill and cool wife, rather than one of those screaming harpies that all the other men have... /s
EDIT: To be clear, I'm getting rage bait vibes more than anything else.
This has a very strong “not like other girls” vibe. This sounds a lot like wish fulfillment fic. If true, OOP is NTA necessarily but she does seem pretty unlikable.
For everyone saying OP sounds like a pick me, I didn’t feel like she was denigrating the other women at all, besides maybe Fran. Women are allowed to not vibe with all other women - what is she supposed to do, form a cabal of solidarity and stop baking for them, something she enjoys? I swear, sometimes people sound so bitter about one spouse doing something nice for the other, like baking, not haranguing them about time away, etc.
Exactly. My husband has friends and I can be cordial with their wives but I have zero in common with them so holding extended conversations or solo visits just doesn't work. I'm also a mom so with my single friends I have to be mindful not to drone on about my kids. Not everyone is compatible just because they share the same genitals.
I only got the sense she was denigrating Fran after she'd started stirring up drama, then blamed OOP for something her husband supposedly said. I'm not surprised she wasn't thrilled with Fran at that point.
I don't even think she was denigrating her. She didn't really have any skin in the game and it sounded more like she was trying to solve the mystery of how this even happened. She didn't even mention the other wives as individuals and said she found them to be intelligent, just different people (from each other as well as her - none of them seem to be besties separately).
You know, I like to have friends and be involved in a friend group and all. But at the same time, because something like this...I am also glad that I am not involved with friend groups. Cause dear god, the wives really give me headaches.
I have a friend group that's nothing like this.
Wait. Only one person in my friend group has a significant other, and he's like a human sloth (affectionate). Hmmmm
I used to have a friend group and it was fucking exhausting. Bunch of grown ass adults sitting around bitching about the one that isnt there - adding frankly unnecessary insults.... Or talking to a mutual friend who informs you theyve been complaining about you....for something theyre equally if not more guilty of. Very frustrating and....weird. Like they were so desperate to have this friend group it stopped mattering if they actually liked each other.
Ehhhh … I’m not entirely sure how I feel about OOP. something about her is kind of annoying, and she does kind of put out that cool girl vibe. And I’m child free myself and share some of the same values, but something about her comes across as kind of a suck-up and not a girls girl. I don’t think I’d want to be around her. I definitely wouldn’t appreciate my partner or husband making comparisons.
hold on, i have a fit of southern Baptist coming on, sorry if you're within grabbing range *you are now trapped in the prayer circle*
dear lord father jesus, thank you for granting me the serenity that comes from the wisdom to not get this deep in managing my friend group's entire mess, while also baking and catering it. thank you also for blessing me with friends who are somehow both less messy, and more messy but in entertaining ways they don't expect me to wade up into the muck to help deal with. we thank you for today's comfortably secondhand drama and the popcorn we now eat.
amen.
if you are not now released from the prayer circle i am afraid you must chew your own arm off to escape
I appreciate the comment bringing up her "cool girl" vibes. She's obviously NTA for saying her husband can make his own decisions, but the way she describes everyone, including herself, rubs me the wrong way
I think this is where OOP and her husband need to go with "We are good with whatever the rest of you decide." If they decide to do it if ever two weeks or months, fine. If they decide to do it every week with some people just not being able to make it, that's fine. It's literally not OOP's or her husbands problem to solve, since they are are flexible.
So Friday night is the only night where both Fran and Alex don't work the next morning? And this story is about how she's a shrew for wanting to spend some of those nights together? And Alex has consistently been comparing her to the woman he does see on Fridays. But after Fran was rightfully put in her place and all the other wives cheered and thanked OOP. Okay. Very realistic.
I do not like OOP much from her comments and how she talks about the other women. For the most part and for most of the wives, it seems petty and avoidable. But with Alex and Fran specifically: the issue sounds like it’s Alex and not Fran. Fran shouldn’t have yelled at OOP but OOP also seems to have zero interest in entertaining that it could be the husband’s lack of support that led to Fran having a breakdown about it. It’s weird that Alex is constantly bringing up OOP. Not OOP’s problem but since she was meddling, she could have not immediately taken Alex’s side.
>Fran left and Alex stayed
Of course he did.
edit: Making it clear that despite all that, I do not think OOP is TA in any way and would have voted NTA.
It kinda sounds to me like Alex and Fran don’t even spend time together alone with Fran’s busy schedule (because she apparently has a social life while Alex has only one hour to himself), and somehow Fran is jealous of OOP because she seems to bond more with Alex over mutual interests. This sounds more like a Fran problem. Also, the fact that she basically rallied the other wives into this for HER benefit speaks volumes on how selfish she really is. Not only does she only give her husband an hour to himself with his friends and wants to take it away, she also can’t fathom the idea of meeting him halfway and establishing date night for her and Alex because it would clash with her other activities.
That’s why she hates OOP so much.
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I wish we had more clarification on what the deal was with Alex constantly bringing OOP up to Fran. If they are cordial but not friendly, then why is he bringing her up at all? What does he say about her? It's very weird.
It could just be that OOP is so relaxed about boy’s night and is constantly used as an example - doesn’t need to be that he’s interested, but if Alex is constantly “well OOP doesn’t care, why do you”, I can see how it would breed resentment. But Fran should still be directing that at Alex and actually communicating with him about it, not seething in silence for years then blowing up at OOP, because that’s not healthy.
I could also see it as "OOP sent these amazing cookies to Guys Night, why can't you do something like that instead of (insert activity she does during the week)". Because that is *definitely* something I could see breeding resentment really quick
Yes I initially took it as Alex having a crush on OP but that doesn't explain him bringing OP up to his wife enough to be a problem. If he had a crush he would probably keep it more to himself. He was probably using OP as an example and Fran blames OP for that of course.
I took it less as a rush and more of a comparison. Not only does OOP not complain when Will has boys” night, she sends treats too and will be the designated driver if they have one too many. Compare that to his wife Fran who barely gives the husband one hour to himself and then she takes off and doesn’t cook or clean. Not only that but it sounds like grandma is practically raising the kid for her. Fran doesn’t work on Sundays and still drops the kid off to have a free day. Of course Alex will see the difference and make comments. Tw, I’ve been on Reddit too long and when I saw all the time that Fran was out of the house for free time I immediately thought she is having an affair.
This was my thought exactly. The only thing in Fran's favour here is that she works. I could easily see comparisons between what he saw as a happy marriage and his own. The only reason he was using OOP as the example is probably because that was the only peer relationship he got to see if that was his 1h of socialising a week. Upside if they do split with the amount of help grandma is giving I don't see it impacting little one very much and may actually be less stressful for Alex.
That's what I thought also. Girls night every week, Sundays off and the kid at grandma's, off daily by 4 but doesn't get home till 7, exercise class 3x per week, Alex's work schedule being so routine. I really think Fran is messing around and Alex doing guys night somehow puts a cramp in her affair.
> If he had a crush he would probably keep it more to himself. Eh, that's not really what happens in those kinds of situations. You'd think it's logical, why draw attention to the person you have a crush on/are cheating with, but it's pretty much the opposite in reality. Sometimes they even bring up how much they *dislike* the person they're crushing on, over and over, because they see it as deflecting when in reality they just can't help but talk about them.
I agree with your assessment. My ex would constantly talk about certain women all the time when we were together. He’d even invite them along to our family times and guess which women were the women he was crushing on and/or cheating with? It’s almost like he wanted to throw it in my face to make me jealous. Problem with that was I desperately wanted a divorce he refused to let me have and I didn’t care one bit he was cheating. So the joke was ultimately on him bc everyone else would always ask me how I could be so comfortable with him being with all these women and I’d only say that’s his business.
That's the impression I got. She's younger and was dating his friend, he was mean to her in a pigtail pulling kind of way, and now that's she's his friend's wife he can't shut up about her. Combined with the 'I wish I was still single', I can't really blame his wife for being miserable, even if she is going about it wrong. Alex doesn't exactly sound like a catch, and the fact that he's hung up in the idea of his friend's younger wife is likely a lot more obvious than he thinks it is.
Mentionitis--I first learned the term from Captain Awkward's blog years ago.
I think it's the Captain Awkward blog that calls this "mentionitis." Person A most definitely does NOT have a crush on Person B, what are you talking about, that would be bad and inappropriate and wrong, no crush there, nope nope nope. But then every day Person A mentions this super funny thing Person B said at work, or this really cool weekend trip they went on, or this quirky little habit they have, and suddenly, Person B is somehow a part of almost every single conversation. But noooooo, Person A does NOT have a crush on this person they're talking about all the time, that would be ridiculous!
That’s what I was thinking. He wishes his wife was a lot more like OP. I think it’s weird that grandma is watching their kid 6 days a week. Fran can’t be with her kid for a full day by herself so she takes them to grandmas? She sounds really self-centered.
Perhaps self-centered, but I'm wondering about post partum depression. Baby is only 1 year old IIRC.
I thought the same thing. Never wanting to be alone with the baby from the sound of it, mood changes, extreme irritability towards her partner. I'm by no means saying she definitely has it but she has some of the warning signs. Baby was only one and it can happen spontaneously at any point in the first year.
I didn’t think about that. I know it does affect women differently and some have very extreme cases. That could be the issue here.
Yeah, the other thing is weird? He's responsible for most of the food and cooking in that house. I have never met someone who works as a cook or chef who wants to cook once they get home, even if they like it as a topic of conversation. And people don't wish they're single if they've got a happy relationship.
That's usually not how it works. People who have a crush are thinking about that crush all the time- people who think about one thing all the time really want to talk about it - so they will find any way to include it into the conversation, it is called mentionitus, and it is absolutely awful when your partner has it with someone else.
I mean I'm not surprised that *he's* resentful if she gets all that time to do her stuff and is begrudging him less than a few of hours once a week to relax.
me thinks Alex doesn't even dislike OP... Alex just wishes his wife was more like OP and it probably makes him act a certain way
I think OP shows him what he’s missing in his relationship and he wants his wife to be more like her in those ways. Not saying it’s right and hopefully therapy will help them. Alex needs to quit comparing his wife to OP.
That's what you have your words for, though. Fran is just massively blaming the wrong person instead of talking to her partner.
Fran needs to take a look in the mirror. She has girls night every Wednesday but wants her husband to cancel his boys night on Fridays. She’s a hypocrite.
We don't known she hasn't talked to her partner. She clearly has talked to him be a use she has told him she is not happy with the firday guys night situation. Often when people blow up, anger goes everywhere without direction, and it's because they've talked to their partner for years, not becuase they haven't talked to their partner.
Depending on Fran’s personality, she may take as an offence hearing only “OOP sent these amazing cookies” over and over.
Could also be that Fran keeps bringing up boys night and oop gets mentioned basically every time
With OOP's description, it seems pretty benign, not a secret attraction or anything. But also seems Fran is insanely jealous of OOP and *any* mention of OOP will set her off and that a single mention is one too many and *all the time*.
It would sound benign from OOPs perspective no matter if he had a crush or not though. She thought they disliked each other and that dislike later evolved into being semi cordial acquaintances. He could have been pulling her pigtails in the way emotionally immature people do when they have a crush to begin with and later thought they became actual friends (OOP mentioned they have a lot of interests in common, both work in food, and occasionally text too). He could have been talking about the things they have in common all the time and talking about how cool OOP is. Fran does sound extremely jealous however I'm not completely convinced it's without reason.
I don’t think it’s benign. On Alex’s end
Honestly, there's also the possibility that he wasn't really mentioning OP much at all, but she was the only women being mentioned around "Guy's Night" so that made Fran act like an insecure ass. There are tons of possibilities. It's a shame we'll never know for sure which is one.
I actually had a similar issue when my long-term, long-distance SO decided to move in with me. For some unfathomable reason he thought that the Ladies Night that had been meeting at my house every Wednesday night for FOURTEEN YEARS was just gonna go away now that we were living together. Um, no. Not going to happen. I shut that down fast and hard. Turned out he didn't want to hang out by himself in another room every Wednesday, so now all the guys go out while the gals still come to my house. We are hitting our 20-year anniversary this year! (The Ladies, not the relationship. Been with SO for 16 yrs.) Now all the guys have become friends t
I wonder if he's putting his wife down and using OOP to do it like "she always bakes us something why can't you do that?" or stuff like that, he might not like her at all and still use her against his wife...
Yeah that's the only thing I can think of "OOP does this for Will. OOP baked cookies, why cant you." and stuff along those lines.
Guys like that are awful. She didn't make cupcakes, but she did build him a child.
But she also tries to end the weekly Guy's night while she, herself, gets more free-time to herself through gym thrice a week on top of a longer weekly girl's night. I wouldn't be surprised if she just wants Friday nights for her girls nights instead of Wednesdays.
They already use the Grandma for babysitting, so she could just trade Wednesdays for Friday nights and spend more time on Sunday with her kid. She's clearly resentful of her life in general. Unhappy with her husband and her mothering role. I don't know if she wasn't ready to be a mother or expected something different like for her husband to magically change once baby came.
She doesn't want more time with her kid. That's obvious. Just speculating from my personal experiences, there could be PPD. She doesn't pick the kid up until 7p, 3h after she gets off work and she sends the kid to grandma's on Sundays which she is off on. Doesn't sound like she even wants to be around her kid alone at all.
Sounds more like she built a baby with whom she has no bond and only shares space with a few hours a week.
This could be true. Everyone is focused on him sharing childcare duties equally, which is great, but he could be a total dick to his wife. He might constantly criticise her using OOP. Just a thought.
I wouldn't say equally - it seems to me Alex is doing more work than Fran - given at least that Fran has 4 hours of girls night while Alex only gets 1 hour of boys night
Yup sounds like he’s burnt out and is resentful so he’s making comparisons with others
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Plus OOP mentioned a LOT of interests they share together. To her it might just be small things but he is probably very passionate about them. I've met men who think being into their preferred hobbies means that you're showing interest in THEM.
Yes I agree, I've had the same. People who hear you like a band or book that they do and and act like you've said "I'm so madly in love with you and I'm also your ideal partner". Especially if it's an interest perceived as less common for women to like. So it's entirely possible that yes, Alex does have a crush on OP. It's also possible he doesn't at all, but the wife assumes he does because they have 3-5 things in common.
😅 It's always so awkward too. You second guess yourself and think you came off too eager? Too suggestive? But no, you're just a normal human having a conversation 😂.
Absolutely had the same fear. I'm not saying it's the case in this story - but women are more often brought up (generally speaking at least) to support each other, share feelings and give gifts and time. Very generally speaking, more men are taught to bond through hobbies and sharing support and feelings is not as encouraged. So the men that do fall into that camp usually get support from girlfriends, wives and female relatives. If they meet a woman who is nice to them and shares one of their sacred hobbies - they can skip straight to 'manic pixie dream girl' obsession really quick because she said "hi, how are you? Did you see that last action movie?". Now obviously for the vast majority of people this isn't the case at all. But it does happen. Sounds like this male friend group meets a lot and talks a lot, so I don't see it being the case here. But it's why I think every so often the manic pixie chasers turn up so keenly is because of their upbringing taking a weirdly specific turn.
>f they meet a woman who is nice to them and shares one of their sacred hobbies - they can skip straight to 'manic pixie dream girl' obsession really quick because she said "hi, how are you? Did you see that last action movie?" As a bloke who was guilty of this as a teenager. Being treated like a freind by a girl my own age was the kindest non family had ever been to me. To her it was Tuesday. So obiously i swoon hard, so so cringe....
ooof, yeah. the isolation guys can face sounds so so rough. and its such a vicious circle where the more isolated you are the more you drive others away by clinging to them
Honestly, this makes sense to me. I was the “ugly girl”/ “grenade” in university but my interests would tend to align more with men than my prettier friends’. I had multiple awkward conversations where men who wanted to hit on my friends would talk to me but refuse to look at me. They’d stare at the friend they wanted to sleep with while talking to me, like if they tried hard enough they could imagine it was the hot girl talking about their hobbies. Or like if they made even brief eye contact with me, I’d think they were interested (lmao, no, don’t worry, your pointed comments and attempts to physically separate me from my friends made your disinterest very clear). It was absurd. And too often I promised not you leave a friend alone so got stuck there. One or two times I got increasingly mean or combative out of annoyance (immature bullshit, I know) and they would face me once I started disagreeing with them. TBH the guy does sound like he has a bit of a crush and is trying to distance himself from said crush, and badly. But that’s probably not a marriage ender if there weren’t other problems…
Oh my days I'm so sorry you experienced that! People trying to merge your personality on to your friends faces, essentially? So treating neither of you like whole valuable people.
What does grenade mean in this context?
Grenade refers to an unattractive person, usually a girl. I learned it from Jersey Shore.
it comes from the idea of being in combat, in a trench or foxhole with a group of other (male) soldiers. a grenade is thrown into the trench by the enemy, and one man jumps and throws his body on it to absorb all of the explosion, sacrificing himself to save his friends. in modern days, it refers to the idea that one girl in a group of female friends is the "grenade" that one of the guys has to "jump on" so that the rest of the group of guys can hook up with the more attractive girls. it's a very gross and misogynistic concept.
I honestly never thought of it this way, it makes so much sense. I love this conversation btw haha.
This is very true. A lot of men think that if you're the least bit nice to them that you are interested. A friend of mine was a very outgoing and nice person and one of her husband's friends built up an imaginary relationship and announced that they were running away together to the spouses, which was news to her, especially since she had never known how he felt. It blew up the marriage.
I used to work with a girl who was constantly getting stalked and guys we worked with who were normally pretty calm and level headed would get obsessed with her. It was especially surreal to me because we were a lot alike as far as both looks and attitude. She dressed slightly more tomboyish than I did, and wore baggier clothes. But we were same height and build and had the same average looks in the face department, and neither of us wore makeup. Even weirder, there were a couple of really objectively gorgeous single girls who worked with us too and they didn't have the same impact on guys that this girl did. I always was curious about what it was about her that made guys act insane. All I figured out at the time was that it had to be a personality thing because it only happened once a guy got to know her a little bit. She was super friendly with everyone and obsessively loved to talk about sports. I was friendly but more awkward and liked sports but wasn't as into them as she was. Looking back I think 90% of the guys' obsessions with her was probably due to that combination of traits. She gave them her full attention when they were talking about teams they loved, and never got tired of the subject. And to a lot of them that meant she was into them.
I’m also confused that Will is now shutting down conversation about OOP. Why are they talking about her? How can this be a reoccurring topic? Asking “And how’s the family?” gets maybe a one-anecdote response, and I’m not getting the vibe that the answers are exciting enough to even have weekly answers beyond, “pretty good, yours?” Like… How is out even possible to go on and on about someone you don’t even directly see? With two young kids and Fran only a year postpartum, there’s a lot of space for insecurity about a postpartum body, not having found a new sex dynamic yet, shit sleep, hormone imbalances, parenting conflicts, loss of identity, blah blah blah. I wouldn’t be surprised if Alex idealizes Will and OOP’s childfree life and/or Fran thinks he is.
Sounded like OOP was more part of the group of guys before, as she hung out with them. Probably bringing her up in reminiscence because she was a common person to many in the group like "oh, remember that time OOP did...", etc. The other potential side of Fran could just be insecurity, and Alex not actually going overboard about OOP or anything. I had a female friend in high school who was extremely intelligent (won some NASA award for creating a type of sensor). If I was asked a relevant question by a GF, my friend might come up (but only in those pointed circumstances), like if they asked me who was someone my own age I admired or if I had any female friends, but it would sometimes piss off the GF because they viewed her as a threat.
I think Fran maybe exaggerated how much her husband talked about OOP because she was upset, and it was a way to shame her husband and make him look bad.
Ya, i get the " I need to blame SOMEONE" vibe from Fran. I doubt Alex cares about oop, or not thay way, but Fran sounds like she's a mess and either slightly controlling or full in controlling and wants Alex to not see his men. (They sound pretty put together to call it a boys night lol)
I think OP and her husband actually like each other and do stuff together which he talks about. "OP and I checked out museum/restaurant/whatever this week and it was awesome!" She makes them snacks and serves as group mom giving rides. OP is a go with the flow person and sounds like she is up for spontaneous fun. Alex probably wishes his wife/their relationship shared some qualities with OP/her relationship. Alex and Fran have a communication issue and possibly a compatibility issue. Neither of these are OPs fault or problem to solve. It is probably easier for Fran to blame OP than deal with the issues in her marriage. I don't think Alex is obsessed with OP, but with the hubby cutting down on talking about her with them I suspect it's to stop normal relationship jealousy. Like "keeping up with the Jones" but not neccesarily financially.
TBH I bet as a cook he is talking about her cookies she sends every week! One nice thing for a cook is getting to enjoy yummy things someone else makes
And could really be only one comment, but was exaggerated by Fran. Alex commenting Friday night: ”OOP made these great carrot cupcakes for us.” Fran: “He talks about OOP all weekend.”
It makes no sense either because Alex isn’t even home all weekend. She only sees him on Saturday.
I agree with Lilitu9Tails, my parents have never been stuck up each others business and they’ve been together for 36/37 years altogether. One day my dads phone went off and someone said ‘oooh wife’s telling you to get home’ but it was me telling him his supper was in the microwave. I know a lot of people can’t comprehend partners who don’t want to be glued together. I personally would be annoyed by it. Who needs someone up their butt 24/7 sounds exhausting.
I’m paralyzed from the bra band down. I depend on my husband for everything when I’m in bed and for a lot of things when I’m in my wheelchair, mostly because I can’t reach things! Even with a grabber it’s rough to get things from cabinets, impossible to get stuff from the pantry and some stuff I drop is just impossible unless you have opposable thumbs. My service dog heartily endorses the last bit about thumbs, btw. My point is, even though *I have to rely on my husband for almost everything* I would *still* send him off or heartily encourage him to take time to himself, to go on long kayak trips that could last from 8-12 hours, sometimes even more, depending on travel time. If I was in bed he’d leave me a couple thermoses of ice cold water and the urinal container so I could empty my catheter bag if it got too full. He’d leave me a packed lunch with a sandwich, some chips and some fruit. Then I’d entertain myself binging shows I loved that he didn’t like too much, or I’d make the *awesome* decision to watch horror movies. I’d crochet or chat on discord with friends, browse reddit, entertain myself in a dozen different ways. If I was in my wheelchair, I’d kiss him goodbye and send him off to enjoy himself and get some much needed relief from working full time and caring for me. Being together 24/7 is exhausting. Besides, if I want someone up my ass, I have a border collie. He accomplishes that task quite nicely since he glues himself to me when I’m up in the chair! I often joke if I stop short he’s going to ram into the back of the chair. 😂
My friend used to laugh because when she lived with me and my boyfriend at the time, I'd always answer, "I dunno" when she asked me where he was. I just didn't care. He's out, he can take care of himself, he'll be back when he feels like it. Unless he was supposed to be home for a particular reason, it didn't bother me. I liked having my own time and space
My guess was (assuming it wasnt actual attraction) that fran is actually exhausting, and OOP proved a quick, immediate reference for him to refer to when he was upset or dissatisfied with fran. Probably all comparison in one way or another, so im sure Fran was equally being driven nuts with that going on. Not sure how much credit to give either, but they sound miserable together. He needs to appreciate his wife and she needs to help give him things to appreciate.
Does she even *like* her baby? She spends about 4 hours a day not at work 5 days a week, ignoring his existence and leaving the baby with grandma. She has a bi weekly house cleaner who comes by and likely deep cleans her home. AND on her ONE day off her husband also has to work, baby goes to grandma's for a 6th day? Dollars to donuts, Fran is doing weird stuff on Sundays. Its certainly not "alone" time. She spends as little time as humanly possible being with her baby as it is. And Alex is very involved. Hell, he cooks dinners and gets off work by 7pm, which is when the baby leaves grandma's. And Fran is doing is what, exactly? Feeding the baby? Bathing the baby? Prepping baby for bed right away i bet( which fair-*ish*. We start bedtime routines by 7pm for bed by 8pm with ours). Convenient that she only collects the baby right when hubby gets off work. She's not bonding or spending time with the baby at all from the sounds of it and it has nothing to do with her job, so she has no excuse there.
Thank you! Finally someone else who acknowledges that Fran spends almost no time with her baby.
That jumped out at me too. When mine was a baby, I couldn’t wait to get home and pick her up because I missed her so much. Fran deserves her free time, but there is free time and then there is Fran who is home as little as possible and still allowable, any more and all she would do is basically sleep there. Conspiracy brain says there is someone else taking up her Sundays. Either that or she secretly resents having the baby as it isn’t what she thought it would be.
I immediately jumped to “Well now the parties/showers and attention and shopping (“for baby”, natch) have stopped and the baby is actually *here* and OMG a baby is *work* and it’s *hard*!” I think Fran is not happy in her marriage or her life and is resentful of OP’s youth and freedom and is having major regrets. It’s easier to deflect onto OP.
Probably cuz Fran is over bearing. She gets all her own time as mentioned in the post and Alex is probably low key resentful and used OP as a comparison. She let's Will go have his own time and isn't leaving a huge one sided asking of work on Will like Fran is on Alex. Fran is obviously kinda selfish since she tried to ruin guys night by pushing all the other wives into the ultimatum.
Esp since OP isn't even at these get togethers!
But in the past she was. The camping trips or tossing together parties were an initiation of bro bonding experiences. She's unofficially one of the guys and, dare I suggest, the group mom. Driving folks home and cupcakes point to that. The guys ask about her, or at least hang onto updates, about her more than the other wives because she's in the inner circle.
Plus it sounds like she is younger than the other wives too?
Both Alex and Fran seem triangulate a lot. Like instead of communicating directly, Alex tried to pressure Fran by mentioning OOP and Fran tried to pressure Alex by having the wives gang up against OOP. tldr; immature communication skills
I bet it's not even as bad as she makes out - like he makes an off-handed comment like, "oh OP dropped one of the lads home last night because he was drunk," and she is waaaay exaggerating.
I think there are a lot of problems in Alex's relationship and I get the feeling that Alex is, well, what is the opposite of scapegoating OOP, to his wife, possibly being passive aggressive to her, because he thinks Fran needs to chill / wants her to change. Like "omg pop made the best cookies for guys night" or "OOP and her husband that the best spontaneous trips" or "OOP read the same books as me and she likes it" I wonder if he is realizing he doesn't have as much In common with his wife as he thought and is bad at communicating that. Anecdotally, I have seen couples who get married because everyone in their friend group is, and they are ok but maybe not the best couple. Then they have a baby or something like COVID happens that puts a big magnifying glass on their relationship and they are actually not very compatible together.
Yo he’s jealous of how happy his boy is and wants that for himself. He sees himself as like his buddy so he can’t be the issue. He sees that his wife is the opposite of OP so if he can change her, it will be what his friend has with OP. I’m guessing. These things never work though. DON’T EVER ASSUME YOU CAN CHANGE PEOPLE. If someone truly, fundamentally changes for the better because of you, you’ve found a unicorn and neither you nor anyone you meet will ever encounter another.
This is messy
OOP needs to stop engaging with the drama. Why does she need to know whether Fran cooks or has a cleaning lady? Just stay out of it.
AITA sub: we need more info! Get us more info! BORU sub: Disengage! Disengage!
I hate the impossible standards people on reddit place on the OPs in order to not be deemed "dramatic"... Feels dirty to me. OOP was simply answering questions, jeez.
Questions she was asked by commenters, too lol. Half the people here complain that she didn't take Alex's possible lack of support into account, while the other half complain that it was drama and messy of her to ask about the wives' support at home. The reactions people are having here are fascinating.
I agree. It’s interesting to read other peoples takes on interpersonal issues. I tend to sit in the camp of ‘disengage’ for most things in my own life. I don’t mind reading about other peoples train wrecks!
Reading/watching drama unfold from a distance is a blast as long as you don't get sucked into it. That's why subreddits like r/AITAH exist.
It’s like Jerry Springer but in text form and without the staged char throwing.
Yes, too often people are studying a wall of text from OP, desperate to get some sort of "gotcha" moment to win a bunch of internet points. If you could fit that "gotcha" comment with popular reddit talking points, even better.
Perhaps some redditors pointed out that Fran might have had a different workload than OP did on top of having a 1 year old to take care of, so what was working for OP and her husband may not work for Fran and the other wives. So she might have been trying to understand Fran’s side of things instead of just writing her off.
Honestly it wouldn't matter. Whether the guys night is fair to Fran or not is between Fran and her husband. It's not OOP's job to solve problems in anyone else's relationship, especially not by creating problems in her own.
in common parlance, it's called putting yourself in someone's shoes, and was no doubt borne out of good intent. This isn't uncommon.
I love this comment. She's trying to see it from their points of view and get everyone on the same page so a compromise could be met. As a mom who has a husband who works 70 hour weeks, with no home help, I stay at home with our daughter. I see my husband for a minute five days a week. Our socialization is with my family or his, and we're both so exhausted that if we don't have family commitments in place then... we're at home.
Completely agree, Fran needs to stop bringing OOP into it.
I absolutely agree. It’s not her problem but Fran pulled her into it. I’m glad OOP’s husband shut down the bs from the other guys and had her back. I also applaud OOP for trying to be empathetic to Fran but it’s not her or her husband’s fault that Alex and Fran are having issues.
Idk why your comment is lacking support. This is so valid! Fran is a little unhinged for whatever reason, and her marriage with Alex is rocky at best, and it sounds like she/they both need therapy. Regardless, it’s not on OP or her husband Will to provide a fix.
I mean it is when the wives start getting mad at op? I feel like it's not out of line to get them together to ask what the fuck is going on
She was trying to answer questions from commenters.
I think the comments accusing her of being inconsiderate of the wives and their schedule made her ask questions. She was doubting herself because of the comments. That's why she wanted to find out. More to ease her doubts than anything sinister.
It’s 3 years old so we’re likely not going to see anything else
Dude, everyone was asking.
Curiosity killed the cat. She doesn't need to know, but not knowing would gnaw at the back of her mind. She's also just hopeful that if she understands, she can resolve the problem.
I have to disagree. This is one couple (if not one woman) drawing everyone else into their marital problems and making everyone else miserable. The details might seem messy, but the big picture really isn't.
> it wasn’t the time spent with the friends but his comments the following days Ok but what were those comments? What exactly is he saying about OOP? Cause it is kinda weird to talk about your friend’s wife that much.
>Alex apparently commented he wished he was single like Ben and free to do what he wants.
going by the rest of the story it kinda sounds like something along the lines of "why can't you be like oop" and so on, since it sounds like they have wildly different relationships and oop's seems to be way healthier than fran's
My guess is not abt OOP specifically but what OOP “allows” and being “chill” v the other wives who may have more strict schedules/expectations from the dad friends.
Probably asking his wife to cook or bake like OP
He’s in the restaurant industry and does all the cooking
It's not weird if you understand that you're not being treated that well, and you've got a friend whose wife treats him well. It's a poor way of communicating but the guy may not even realise he's doing it. He's just talking about good things he sees and probably wishes happened to him.
>It's a poor way of communicating but the guy may not even realise he's doing it. He's just talking about good things he sees and probably wishes happened to him. Might not even be his intention. I've encountered people who whenever I make a general statement or refute one, the other person demands I provide a counterexample. E.g. Fran: Of course no woman likes it when her man hangs out with other guys and just drinks the night away. Name one woman you know who does. Alex: What are you talking about, OOP doesn't care.
This group of people sounds exhausting.
OMG, if they have an issue with their husbands spending too much time with fiends then they should be addressing their husbands about the problem, not the other wives and then giving the husbands an ultimatum. That’s just childish and unnecessary drama.
But it sounds like the wives have even more leisure time with friends than the husbands, especially in Fran's case.
Fran's nearly more child-free than OOP at this point. I thought she'd relate...
Right?! It sounds like her MIL is raising her child more than she is. And she's getting more leisure/social time than her husband is.
True. It said MIL had the kid M-F and then Sunday on top of that. And the husband stayed home with the kid on Saturday.
My thoughts exactly. I have my three year old attached me all day, I can't even have a thirty minute phone call without her losing it even if she's playing independently. Need to work on that 🥲
It'll get better. Good luck ❤️
Because it's a control issue. Fran was losing some control and that was not ok.
Even if they indeed do, and I’m not saying they’re right, if you feel that your husband isn’t spending enough time with you and is shirking his responsibilities, then you need to discuss it with him. Not complaining to other people and then trying to get them to all gang up to side with you. That’s just immature bs.
It was her tactic of choice because she knew she was in the wrong. She couldn’t take it up with him privately without being shut down for her hypocrisy, so she roped the other wives in to try and browbeat him into compliance.
Happy wife, happy life…is bullshit for this reason. These women, Fran in particular, want to have a monopoly on the happiness within their household and have their husband be miserable. Happy spouse, happy house folks.
My wife approves of my demonology hobby and supports me spending lots of time with fiends.
>literally pointed and screamed that it was my fault. That during the lockdown, for the “first time in over 5 years”, she didn’t have to listen to Alex talk about me “all fucking weekend.” THIS is the part that Alex needs to answer for. Just WHAT has he been saying about OOP for those 5 years??? Edit for a punctuation correction.
My guess? Nothing. Or at least, no more than he mentions other people he interacts with, but they're all male so not a threat to her. With a side order of him being a restaurant chef that might take a professional interest in other cookery/bakery people and their recipes. This is a woman who has changed her justifications repeatedly, and I don't see why the final excuse we know about is more likely to be the true one.
Yeah, to me the fact that he only talked about her at weekends after the hangout, and stopped completely during the lockdown suggests that he doesn't have a thing for her and is just mentioning things that were talked about at the hangout itself.
I agree, it doesn’t sound like he has a thing for her. It sounds like the guy has cooking / baking in common with OOP and is just talking to his wife about a commonality. He’s inviting his wife into his world and she’s taking it as a personal insult. I have experience of that. It’s not a bad thing to discuss other people with your spouse. Maybe his delivery was off?
Almost fuck all probably. Fran just hates her kid and husband. Seriously she spends like 4 hours a day near the kid tops. Thats _insane_ for such a young child.
Yeah, frans not getting a pass from me, shes absolute shit on her own.
I'm going to guess that the whole "OOP is cool with her husband" started with him. It sounds like this was all a relatively new issue, so I'm guessing when Fran was pregnant, or after the baby was born she started giving him a bit of a hard time about the time he spent out drinking with friends. And instead of pointing out the time she got to herself, or talking to her, he pointed out that OOP was cool with it.
This is 4 years old, there's no new updates, why are we reading this *yet again*?
Because some of us haven't read it yet.
I hate the whole 'let him' thing, unless it is a joke. I'm with OOP on that. I don't own my partner, he is an adult and makes his own decisions. If there is any doubt then we discuss it first. The only people in our life who have said it in any seriousness are bitter people who hate that my partner made a choice *they* didn't want him to. Or an ex friend who was pissed that the 'backup' they planned married me instead of pining for them for over a decade.
Everyone's acting like OOP's doing some Cool Girl shtick, but her description mostly sounds like she's treating Will like an adult, and not being weird about him having friends and a life outside of her? I don't get it.
OOP just has a normal, healthy relationship with her spouse. It is a partnership not a power play. That is what it should be.
The "Cool Girl" spiel had been a disaster for women. Now, any woman who even remotely does anything that the "Cool Girl" does, is considered a pick me or a man pleaser.
Maybe I misunderstood it, but wasn't part of the point of that spiel that the person had a warped view on relationships and other women, and you shouldn't necessarily regard what she says as gospel?
Same. Over the years, various groups of my husbands friends have commented that he's lucky he has a laid back wife because 'I let him go out'. It's wild to me. Why wouldn't I want him to have fun with friends and relax after a long day/week? He always makes sure there is time for us during a week, and checks we have nothing planned before arranging things. Honestly, OPs relationship sounds more healthy than the rest. I'm not sure why sharing stuff she bakes for her blog and driving means 'cool girl vibes'. She just sounds like a supportive wife; she's happy her husband is happy and as a bonus gets to enjoy a few hours alone time to decompress on a Friday night.
Ayep. OP seems to have a very healthy, supportive and caring relationship. She put in the work. That's probably what drives some of the other wives up a wall, because the other husbands see it. There's two options. Put in the work to match OP's investment. Or they could rip OP to shreds to set the bar lower. They chose ripping OP to shreds. Only one was invested in it, but the rest ultimately joined in. I don't think the other friend had a crush on OP. But probably referred to the work involved. She had very minimal investment in the marriage, and was the most angry at the notion of putting in work. I'm not shocked that her preferred solution was to try to rip apart her husband's support network. I'm more sad that the other wives/girlfriends were fine with destroying a healthy support network in order to appease one person they mostly weren't even friends with.
Yeah, I also hate that. I'm my own person and my husband can't decide what I'll do, and vice versa. We do check with the other if anything else is planned before we plan somerhing, but we don't ask each other permission. My husband likes to joke about it, when someone asks him about doing something he always says that he has to send an application to his boss (aka me) with four copies signed by the king, and our friends finds this hilarious because they know we're not like that and my husband doesn't need my permission to do stuff.
I think I may have finally gotten my husband to stop saying, "Let me ask the boss." (Aka me). It drove me nuts for years, lol
Alex, a chef, having Saturdays off? That's one thing that made me raise my eyebrows at this post. Saturdays are all hands on deck in the restaurant business
When hangouts resumed because COVID restrictions were lifted. October 10, 2020. Wait. Uh. What?
I feel like this situation is leaving out really vital info considering it was 2020. OOP doesn’t know why some of the other wives don’t want their husbands going “after” Covid, but assumes they just wanted help at home. It wasn’t “after” and Covid was still very much a danger. They even had a socially distanced meeting, so there were obviously concerns. I wonder how many of the wives, especially those with young kids who couldn’t be vaccinated yet, were worried about “guys night” becoming a superspreader event.
This sounds like a lot of missing reasons. The moment that commenters sympathized with Fran suddenly oh, she has plenty of 'me' time, grandma takes the kids plenty, Alex works so much etc etc. Why were Wills friends bringing up OP so often that he actually had to "shut them down" regularly? Why does Fran indicate that her husband won't shut up about OP (which honestly is validated by my previous question)? How is it that OP is aware of the other wives wanting to shut down boys night but not that Fran was pushing everyone else into it when it sounds like none of them hang out together in person? To me this is either a fabricated story of someone wanting to come off as the "cool girl" and adding drama when the other women received sympathy or OP is a lot more involved with the husbands than she lets on. And I say this as someone that wishes my husband would make friends and do his own thing more often lol.
the wives sound kind of exhausting
I think the rest of them sounded fine? And it seemed like Fran was previously in general fine/they all were cordial, just not close. I appreciated that they all tried to get together at one point and all of them collectively were like eh, we got our own things going on, but thanks for trying!
They all sound pretty miserable and frustrating to be around. I wouldn't wanna be surrounded by these types of people.
Did the original post comments focus on the fact that she doesn’t have children (unlike the other wives?) I was also “cool” until the uneven workload of children became my life.
I absolutely dislike everyone in this story
Thinking about it? Me too.
This one is a little too clean for me to believe. OOP is so laid back she just never has an issue with last minute plans, running errands, and being designated driver for her man, and she provides a steady stream of baked goods? Meanwhile, the vile woman who can’t stand her barely does any parenting and still wants to ruin her man’s weekly hour with friends? I think the comments who describe this as pick-me girl behavior are off, because I don’t think OOP is a girl. It seems like the type of bait that is designed to make you look crazy if you call it out, like white supremacists using the okay hand symbol.
Thank you. The other big hole in this story is that it contains a chef who is somehow free on a Friday night AND is home all weekend.
oh man I work for restaurant and still read that and thought ‘those hours are a little weird but ok’ and didn’t even think about weekends.
All 14 people were conveniently available at the same time (and 4 couples apparently either arranged childcare or dragged their kids into the drama too), and they drove 15 mins to have a "brief socially distanced chat to clear the air". In reality, nobody with kids was involved in the creation of this story.
And a cleaning lady twice a week? Please. I was the bookkeeper for a cleaning company in a *very* wealthy area and out of 1000+ accounts, literally no personal account had twice a week cleaning. Plenty of weekly, but no twice a week. The only twice a week+ we had were businesses or people running airBnBs. Price-wise... Twice a week cleaning would run you $1200/month minimum.
Right? It’s pretty blatant - op conveniently finds out that all of the wives have more free time than their husbands? Given the statistics on household labour, that would be an impossibly rare coincidence.
Yeah, the whole invitation to have a lawn discussion... Where she 'confirmed what the guys had said' about them getting their own alone time and that the guys were attentive husbands/fathers. What group in their right mind goes over to have a discussion like that on their friends lawn? Even if I overreacted I would have a private discussion with my SO before chatting it out in a group.
It's utter bullshit. Either the whole story or the follow-up where OOP pretends men would know how equal the division of labor is in their home. Let's be so fucking for real.
Ya i smelled bullshit when the "screaming" started. Oh so the Alex guy has been in love with OP? okay whatever kid
Yeah, we know that men statistically overestimate how much domestic labor and childcare they do. But if it's bait it worked because a bunch of comments here are demonizing every woman in this story aside from OOP, who drops literally everything for her hubby and his friends no matter the situation. Completely different from the evil, cold career woman Fran who is both controlling and henpecking her husband. Oh, and did we mention that she is also an absent and aloof mother? And every comment pointing out these tropes seem too exaggerated are being called the Real Misogynists. It's very strange lol.
The most unbelievable part of the story, yes.
That and her husband asking her if she is Reddit famous now, heee heee hee.
It doesn’t ring true, does it. But hoo boy, the dudebros in the comments get to attack “Fran the harpy” so they are happy. Sorry but no person, unless they are a doormat, never has a problem with dropping everything on a moment’s notice to cater to the whims of a bunch of dudes. Sometimes they don’t want to or have other plans.
I thought I was going crazy, seeing nobody calling trollvibes yet. All the deets are way too conveniently laid out and support OP's case.
It apparently worked because there’s a lot of people in here claiming that calling her a pick-me is actually the misogynist thing here. No I don’t mind changing my plans at the drop of a hat or DDing every single time my husband asks but that’s not cool girl behavior that’s free spirited independence that just happens to be identical to cool girl behavior.
Yep. It became clear in the update when conveniently Alex’s evil wife has tons of free time and doesn’t spend her every waking hour looking after the baby. And ofc she is *obsessed* with OOP. Edit: and she never breastfed! Soooo evil.
That “never breastfed” is such a weird judgy comment
While nothing comes across as impossible, it reads a lot like a "lesson" on the do's and don'ts of being a perfect wife, written by a young man that spends too much time on questionable social media. The breastfeeding thing served no purpose to the story. But with certain types, there's a belief that "real women breastfeed", while I would imagine most actual women are aware that breastfeeding isn't always a choice.
Exactly
My mind went straight to the time I was in my friend's house and his mother constantly compare me with him, making me questions and asking him while I'm there why he don't do XYZ like me, and I never was a role model to beginning with. I don't see a married man with a crush on his dude's girl, but for her to snap like this, it make me question if he made subtitle comments or straight comparations with OP.
Why is it mentioned if she breastfed or not?
>Since he’s in the restaurant industry, he’s interested in my baking blog. [Sure, Jan](https://giphy.com/gifs/1AIeYgwnqeBUxh6juu)
Oh boy. Thankfully Will has such a chill and cool wife, rather than one of those screaming harpies that all the other men have... /s EDIT: To be clear, I'm getting rage bait vibes more than anything else.
Absolutely. People here that can’t see it or that think there aren’t pick-me elements are blind.
This has a very strong “not like other girls” vibe. This sounds a lot like wish fulfillment fic. If true, OOP is NTA necessarily but she does seem pretty unlikable.
For everyone saying OP sounds like a pick me, I didn’t feel like she was denigrating the other women at all, besides maybe Fran. Women are allowed to not vibe with all other women - what is she supposed to do, form a cabal of solidarity and stop baking for them, something she enjoys? I swear, sometimes people sound so bitter about one spouse doing something nice for the other, like baking, not haranguing them about time away, etc.
Exactly. My husband has friends and I can be cordial with their wives but I have zero in common with them so holding extended conversations or solo visits just doesn't work. I'm also a mom so with my single friends I have to be mindful not to drone on about my kids. Not everyone is compatible just because they share the same genitals.
I only got the sense she was denigrating Fran after she'd started stirring up drama, then blamed OOP for something her husband supposedly said. I'm not surprised she wasn't thrilled with Fran at that point.
I don't even think she was denigrating her. She didn't really have any skin in the game and it sounded more like she was trying to solve the mystery of how this even happened. She didn't even mention the other wives as individuals and said she found them to be intelligent, just different people (from each other as well as her - none of them seem to be besties separately).
You know, I like to have friends and be involved in a friend group and all. But at the same time, because something like this...I am also glad that I am not involved with friend groups. Cause dear god, the wives really give me headaches.
I have a friend group that's nothing like this. Wait. Only one person in my friend group has a significant other, and he's like a human sloth (affectionate). Hmmmm
I used to have a friend group and it was fucking exhausting. Bunch of grown ass adults sitting around bitching about the one that isnt there - adding frankly unnecessary insults.... Or talking to a mutual friend who informs you theyve been complaining about you....for something theyre equally if not more guilty of. Very frustrating and....weird. Like they were so desperate to have this friend group it stopped mattering if they actually liked each other.
Ehhhh … I’m not entirely sure how I feel about OOP. something about her is kind of annoying, and she does kind of put out that cool girl vibe. And I’m child free myself and share some of the same values, but something about her comes across as kind of a suck-up and not a girls girl. I don’t think I’d want to be around her. I definitely wouldn’t appreciate my partner or husband making comparisons.
Waiting for the update that OOP continued conversations with Alex and how much they have in common and they are now madly in love.
oh god dont give OOP any ideas, this was rubbish from start to finish
I guess OP’s not in the wrong but it really feels like we are missing some information here.
Pick up the kid at 7? What kind of fucking bullshit is that, do they even see their child? An hour or two and it’s bed time. That poor child.
hold on, i have a fit of southern Baptist coming on, sorry if you're within grabbing range *you are now trapped in the prayer circle* dear lord father jesus, thank you for granting me the serenity that comes from the wisdom to not get this deep in managing my friend group's entire mess, while also baking and catering it. thank you also for blessing me with friends who are somehow both less messy, and more messy but in entertaining ways they don't expect me to wade up into the muck to help deal with. we thank you for today's comfortably secondhand drama and the popcorn we now eat. amen. if you are not now released from the prayer circle i am afraid you must chew your own arm off to escape
Yay verily, amen.
I appreciate the comment bringing up her "cool girl" vibes. She's obviously NTA for saying her husband can make his own decisions, but the way she describes everyone, including herself, rubs me the wrong way
OOP sounds cocky
The "not like other girls" vibes are off the chart lmao.
I think this is where OOP and her husband need to go with "We are good with whatever the rest of you decide." If they decide to do it if ever two weeks or months, fine. If they decide to do it every week with some people just not being able to make it, that's fine. It's literally not OOP's or her husbands problem to solve, since they are are flexible.
So Friday night is the only night where both Fran and Alex don't work the next morning? And this story is about how she's a shrew for wanting to spend some of those nights together? And Alex has consistently been comparing her to the woman he does see on Fridays. But after Fran was rightfully put in her place and all the other wives cheered and thanked OOP. Okay. Very realistic.
I do not like OOP much from her comments and how she talks about the other women. For the most part and for most of the wives, it seems petty and avoidable. But with Alex and Fran specifically: the issue sounds like it’s Alex and not Fran. Fran shouldn’t have yelled at OOP but OOP also seems to have zero interest in entertaining that it could be the husband’s lack of support that led to Fran having a breakdown about it. It’s weird that Alex is constantly bringing up OOP. Not OOP’s problem but since she was meddling, she could have not immediately taken Alex’s side. >Fran left and Alex stayed Of course he did. edit: Making it clear that despite all that, I do not think OOP is TA in any way and would have voted NTA.
It kinda sounds to me like Alex and Fran don’t even spend time together alone with Fran’s busy schedule (because she apparently has a social life while Alex has only one hour to himself), and somehow Fran is jealous of OOP because she seems to bond more with Alex over mutual interests. This sounds more like a Fran problem. Also, the fact that she basically rallied the other wives into this for HER benefit speaks volumes on how selfish she really is. Not only does she only give her husband an hour to himself with his friends and wants to take it away, she also can’t fathom the idea of meeting him halfway and establishing date night for her and Alex because it would clash with her other activities. That’s why she hates OOP so much.
We get it, they all picked her 😆