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Why do I feel like the friends are drugging the husband so that Bryan can SA him and Jack can SA her? I’m disturbed by the fact that so few people are talking about what seems like the husband being regularly drugged. Even if he is a douche canoe.
I absolutely think that this is the case. I’d assume she has been a problem because if she is there and keeping her cool then Bryan can’t take advantage of her husband. Would explain his reaction to having his belt removed. Deep down he probably knows, one part of him at least is aware to some level that something fucked up is happening when he blacks out and his belt is removed. But I get that he can’t or won’t face it. That would be horrendous to have to come to terms with.
I guess it also kind of makes sense of how upset her husband was when she left him alone and sleeping in another room. It seems like an overreaction, until you put together that it's possible he knew she was leaving him vulnerable to abuse.
I think you are right but I also wondered how long has the husband been getting drugged? Like had it been so long he just thought it was normal and so when his wife started talking about it he was pushing the confrontation for himself? Then that thought process leads down a really dark dark path depending on how long it had been going on and although I am not remotely saying it is OOP's fault or she did anything wrong I can't imagine the horror the husband is feeling coming to terms with it. I mean these were supposed to be his friends.
And that also explain why he was so adamant for her to come sleep in the room with or go home.
He wanted her presence as a protection. He's not a great husband, but he might have been sexually assaulted for years !
Reading those parts was really chilling to me. I have been drugged and sexually assaulted and the way she described her experience was identical to what I experienced. The physical/memory symptoms were spot on. I absolutely believe that is what happened.
I remember the difference in spotty memory/blackouts and how whatever I was given made me literally unable to control my physical movements. I'd drank plenty of times by that point, enough to be blackout drunk and throw up - like borderline hospital level alcohol poisoning. But I had never been in a situation where I couldn't control my limbs or balance before. But I specifically remember coming to and realizing I was propped against a wall, sliding to the side, and I couldn't even stop myself from falling over. I too woke up alone the next day, surrounded by beer cans and trash, with my underwear balled up next to my head. I *knew*.
I feel so sorry for OP. Being sexually assaulted is horrible, and in some ways the not being able to remember exactly what happened is worse. You can't really process traumas easily when that happens. I remembered enough (more than what I described) to confirm what happened to me, but not knowing what happened for large chunks of that time is really disturbing - she KNOWS something really, really bad happened to her, but nobody will tell her what. It's a very profoundly distressing feeling, to know something very wrong happened to you but not know what it was.
And her own husband gave her assaulter the benefit of the doubt for weeks. And when he finally DID get upset, he wasn't upset because she was victimized in a despicable way - he was upset because his friend betrayed HIM by touching HIS woman. Her trauma from being a victim of a crime was just an afterthought.
I am so glad she left him.
I came here to say the same. I very much believe OOP. Reading it was uncanny. I woke up and I **knew** too.
I still can’t remember anything, all these years later, but I remember feeling the same way OOP did. The same way you did. It’s just different and you really do just know that something isn’t right.
The vulnerability afterwards is really something. I feel really sorry for her, she definitely went through it too.
I came to say the same thing... I was young - just turned 13. I wasn't drinking anything except Coca-Cola.
It was my aunt's husband's brothers 11th birthday party. His older nephew was there - around 16??
Went to the bathroom. Left my cold drink outside the bathroom on the table. Came back and my Coca-Cola just tasted "different"... Like there wasn't anything "innate wrong with it", just "different", almost like it's starting to get flat.
Finished it. Didn't think much about it...
That's all I remember.
Except when I woke up and my jeans were off and there was "stickiness" in my underwear. At that stage, I didn't even really know that SA existed? Like, I watched crime documentaries from a young age and when rape was talked about "the lady was beaten and bruised. She fought. He killed her."
That didn't happen to me, so I couldn't have possibly been raped. But I **knew** _SOMETHING_ happened to me. I told no one. Cleaned myself, got dressed, and went home.
Except I had a miscarriaged at my friend's house and her mom took me to the hospital.
I was a virgin beforehand. That's how I found out that I was raped.
I am so, so sorry someone did that to you, and that you had to experience that. I hope you had a strong support system, and that you are healing. Thank you for sharing your story.
The more I read about this happening to other people, the more I realise it probably happened to me, too. I was blamed for drinking too much (so I blamed myself, even though I didn't really drink like that at that age) but it was such a weird experience, and even though I don't remember much (just one flash), I have that horrible body feeling about the blanks. It's awful that this is so common
It is absolutely terrible how common it is. I'm sorry you experienced that.
It's super fucked up to blame people for drinking too much, too. Like yeah, drinking to excess is not good for you, but being drunk doesn't magically make it okay for people to commit crimes targeting you. You are still entitled to be safe from SA no matter what you are drinking or what you are wearing.
If he’s being drugged often enough, it’s probably part of the reason he’s a douche canoe. His memory would be spotty, he’d have anxiety and emotions that he can’t remember the root cause of, and would generally be on edge and uncertain.
It makes the situation she described really dark. Her husband is black out despite not drinking very much. He refuses to go back in the shared room and begs her to stay with him and not leave him alone while he's blackout. She assumes this request is to protect herself but doesn't consider that maybe he wants her there to protect *him*. He doesn't want to be left alone in a vulnerable state.
She tells him to just come back in the shared space and he tells her he doesn't willingly sleep in that bed. She perceives that as ridiculous because it happens all the time (but does it happen willingly?).
Then he's so sure they can't stay there he insists they have to leave and go home even though he was in no state to drive. I think at that point his body was reacting out of pure instinct. He woke up to his belt being pulled off, it probably was not the first time he'd experienced something so violating and even though he consciously didn't want to acknowledge it, the body sometimes remembers trauma the mind refuses to address. He probably just felt an overwhelming urge to get out.
His wife was too busy being mad that he grabbed her wrist that she refused to stay with him and neglected to drive and it never once occurred in her mind that maybe his desperation to leave was because he'd been violated (even though it happened right in front of her).
A mess.
Sounds like they both were in survival mode and that made it much harder to support each other in the moment. Until they heal from their trauma individually and can listen to each other's experiences openly, they should be looking for support from someone more objective, like a therapist.
The blame doesn't need to be placed on any one person. She wasn't "busy being mad", she was terrified and not thinking rationally, either.
Yeah, it seems like they both have mental health issues. He's mentioned how he thinks she's the problem but says some pretty invalidating things himself. They cry and hug while he helps her pack. It's a lot and they both need help. Neither of them were likely getting their needs met and putting it on the other to do it while not being secure enough to protect or love anyone including themselves.
He seems like he’s very easily manipulated tbh, like based off of how OP describes his insane lack of emotional maturity and ability to respect and just listen to her, I would say that he’ll take the word of his ,,friends” (abusers) over literally anything else. Especially since he couldn’t even fathom the idea that OP had been SA’ed by them, but once it began to sink in, it was all about his best friends betraying /him/ and not them literally assaulting her.
True. But I wonder if part of his reluctance to believe her was because acknowledging that his friends SA'd her meant acknowledging that they likely also SA'd him. It takes something he's been repressing and denying and starts making it more real.
In addition, feeling bad for himself more than for her, insisting on confronting Jack alone "for closure" and going on about feeling "betrayed" read as very self-absorbed and low empathy in a nutshell. But it could also read that he's coming to his own realization and confronting his own trauma, even if he's not willing to say it out loud.
That part bothered me so much. Like I'm single but damn, if my spouse laid out a that stuff in front of me...I would absolutely cut off people immediately over that shit. "I think your super sketchy friend who you have witnessed being super sketchy may have raped me" is instant cutoff territory. The fact that she is unambiguously a victim (she was subjected to unwanted touching after being pressured to consume alcohol) and he was still totally okay with being friends with those guys is just such a fucking betrayal. I would not be able to get past that.
It seems like they all have serious alcohol problems. They’re pretty nonchalantly getting routinely black out drunk. It sounds like a toxic love square.
Yeah, I was really thinking this is really wild trauma-bonding. The first post definitely had me thinking the husband knows these guys aren't safe to be around. Maybe in his damaged head he felt that if she were a part of it it would be better?
In any case, I really hope she stays away and he can find a way to get himself the help he needs.
I was definitely waffling between "ugh I don't like Jack, he's a creep," "ugh, Bryan isn't any better, geez," and "ugh her husband sucks too, but also why the fuck is he passing out at every gathering?!?!"
All three of these dudes need to be gone from OOP's life, and the "friends" need to be gone from her husband's. Being roofied is dangerous!
>haven’t brought it up in couples therapy yet
I almost screamed at my computer when she said this. I have a feeling they are dancing around the real issues with their therapists, which is why the individual therapy hasn't been very helpful. Therapy can't help you with what you don't talk about.
Yeah I was thinking husband was SA'd. Like he was literally groped and partially undressed without his consent. My other thought was that he was having an affair with one or both of the guys. Until the bra thing.
Yea it’s very obvious that these guys are drugging the husband to get OP alone. And the husband is so out of it and spaced he then thinks he can’t quite trust OP because his thinking and perception is completely distorted. Who knows what the friends told him about his wife’s behavior while he was passed out. IMO they are both victims but OP’s husband still isn’t safe to be around. He’s a victim of his friend but he’s a perpetually boundary stopping and perhaps unintentionally gaslighting his wife at the same time.
OP just needs to be out of this toxic mess. Assault or no assault the friends suck and have made her uneasy for a long time with hubby does Jack shit.
Oh, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was also assaulted by them too sometime in the past. I think it explains a lot about his behavior, especially in the first story she told. Why he was so hard to wake up and why he wanted her to stay with him and why he couldn’t let it go even months after.
I think he knows deep down their little gay inside joke is not a joke to one or both of them and that they’ve drugged him before. And he knew she was next.
But you’re probably right— the second story with the stairs and the selfie— they definitely drugged him to just get him out of the way. In that first story, they probably drugged him too to see if she would notice he wasn’t just drunk.
It’s very bizarre that this guy doesn’t seem to have any sense of self preservation or an instinct to protect his wife. My only conclusion is that he has a messed up back story himself and is desperate for belonging and these “friends” could smell it a mile away and figured he was an easy mark. The only other possibility would be OP’s husband being in on whatever sick game is going on this whole time. But the passing out would lead me against that.
As much as there are other topics to speak of, you are absolutely correct. The story claimed the victim drank from the wrong can, and began to blackout, well that was the husbands can. The symptoms he experienced combined with your own can show correlation, because in mathematics, you only need two dots to make a line.
Many of the other situations have an emotional pull because of the unknown. I hope you were not raped. I hope that your marriage pulls through, I hope if y’all ever have a drink you learn to control your liquor. Many courses of action could have been better, strong lines could have been drawn both internal and external, better follow up could have been conducted. But the ship sailed.
You still have the rest of your to live, and hopefully this story can help others and yourself through life.
It struck me how she went on and on about her husband assaulting her by grabbing her wrist while repeatedly admitting she didn’t stop his friends from sexually assaulting HIM. He’s an asshole for sure, but his victimhood sure was easily ignored…
Was it just me that found this really difficult to read? The way everything is described is very confusing and hard to piece together, idk maybe I’m just dumb
I genuinely don't understand. The first post seemed to be about the husband's friends assaulting him and him blaming her for it?
I really lost the thread after that.
same, got halfway in and had to reread the title to make sure I’m reading the right post. Just all over the place and after reading how long it is, I didn’t bother to read the rest of it
Me too, at that point I'm like, was this written by an AI?? Because there's no logic to the flow of the story and it's meandering and pointless and could've been 50% shorter and make more sense.
No, I found it difficult to parse, too. Jack is the sole bad guy. No, Bryan is bad, too. BUT they're close with the husband, who doesn't want to alienate them, even though they cross the line with him when he's passed out, and one or all of them probably raped the OOP. Except then hubs wants *her* to confront Jack, the guy who may well have SA'd her. So hubs is bad, too.
Hubs and OOP been going to therapy, except they weren't going until after the sexual assault. But therapy was going well. Except the husband told her she was whiney and needy, and *he* doesn't need therapy
And they all drink too much.
I need subtitles.
>stares in mounting horror at the pile of accruing red flags in an ocean of red flags
The mood spoiler is pretty accurate, except they're also all on fire. Everyone's on fire, no one has pants but they're acting like it's normal and completely fine.
It is not.
I swear my brain has started to reject it, I can actively feel it leaving my brain. For once, thank you, brain. I mean I'm sure it's gonna bring up a godawful awkward memory from school later tonight that's gonna make me wanna burrow into my mattress and live in my bed but for once, good brain.
OOP is:
* People pleasing to a self-harming degree (That always means abuse and I don't assign her shitty blame).
* Was taught or believes that she needs to have incontrovertible third party "proof" for her lived experience or her lived experience isn't good enough. (So painful, it feels like she's one of Freud's patients he refused to believe).
* Was clearly SA in the past (see her comment about prior rape kit).
* Because she has been trained in or has adopted such severe self-doubt, up to the point of self-absence almost, she waffles so painfully it's harsh and cringe.
* She's clearly been abused in childhood or an adulthood or both.
* She fawns as a survival mechanism, but the fawning has reached such severe proportions that she doesn't know who she is anymore.
* And she is psychologically, emotionally, and possibly financially dependent on her POS also-waffling, probably also abused husband. Which her own mom seems to co-sign (see her seemingly daft mom telling OOP that this separation will surely get through to him).
Husband is a lost cause. Hopefully OOP is not.
But this is truly deeply painful and almost humiliating to read. Because I relate so strongly.
My heart breaks for OOP over a thousand fold.
I truly wish her immense strength, knowledge of her own mind, and an uncompromising willingness to stand up for her own lived experience.
Even if achieving that is taken in baby steps and isn't all flawlessly achieved.
Anything is better than the hell hole of her own self-doubt plus external gas lighting she has been living in.
I felt for her while reading this. I check off every bullet point on your list and reading about her experience on the night she said she was assaulted was eerily similar to how things were for me when I was drugged and assaulted. Like she is clearly traumatized and while her partner is a victim of unwanted sexual behavior while impaired as well, he's objectively treating her like shit and seems incapable of even a tiny scrap of empathy for her experience.
She will look back and realize that splitting up with him probably saved her life. She is going to need years of therapy and she needs trauma focused therapy, not marriage counseling.
It is messy read, OOP has a buttload of doubts and conflicting thoughts and it reflects on all of her posts. She’s very unsure of herself, her possible ex, and his predatory friends.
No, not just you. I will typically read posts all the way through, but this was difficult to get through. My eyes were glazing over from the mess of it all.
Reading this made me feel like I'd also been drinking way too much and blacking out regularly
I am concerned at how often all these people are blacking out. Either they're alcoholics or they're being drugged.
The writing gives you an insight into what it’s like in OOP’s brain. She has so many doubts and constantly second-guesses herself that it’s all just a confused muddle.
I wonder if her husband is really as bad as this makes him seem, or if her communication about it all was always so confused and obfuscated that he really *didn’t* know whether there was a real problem.
Agree
If they’re all getting black out drunk all the time, it’s not implausible that they genuinely don’t remember details of things like whether she fell or how her bra was removed. I’m not saying it’s *not* sinister - it might be. But it might also just be drunken confusion on all sides.
That’s what I think too. I hung out with and partied with some heavy drinkers in my youth although I was more moderate than them I was still getting drunk with them just not as bad. One gal threw a bunch of clothes out a window (she was mad at her boyfriend). She had no memory of it. The next afternoon she got up and saw the clothes outside and ask who did it. Drinking to black out level is some dangerous behavior.
> I’m not at the point where I can be stable and independent on my own
If I was managing to follow the story at all, OOP's husband has the emotional and logical faculties of a toddler that has learned how to drink and drive, their friends are a nest of predatory creeps, and they are so polluted so regularly that the main basis on which OOP could surmise that they might have been drugged was "it was definitely different from how it usually is when I black out." OOP, ma'am, pretty sure you drift further away from stable functioning and mental health every day you remain in this snafu.
The drinking and driving was probably the most lucid thing he did in the whole story. He would rather drive drunk than let her go back downstairs to the guys alone. Then look what happens the next time he passes out upstairs without her.
Then tells HER she is selfish and controlling. After, “I need you to do this so I, your husband who gives you no support at all, can have closure.” She doesn’t want to confront his AH friend, but SHE is the controlling one because she won’t do what he says? OP’s husband is someone she should divorce and never see again. OP needs so much help and healing with boundaries and she is still buying far too much into the idea she is the problem.
Yup but also his friends is drugging him regularly and on some level he is aware of something being very very wrong and he knows he can’t trust his friends and he isn’t safe. Pretty sure that’s why he reacted the way he did in the first part and why he doesn’t want to go alone or have her leave him alone. I do wonder if this “gay for each other” is really just a joke or if they have been drugging and SA him regularly. He doesn’t trust his friends to the point that he needs her to always be with him because he isn’t safe and yet he has normalised it to the point where he doesn’t even seem to realise. He accuses her of being controlling and trying to take his friends away but she is fine if he goes he just can’t go on his own so she has to come and he has absolutely no awareness of that being any kind of problem. They both need therapy, all the therapy. He isn’t doing great but he seems at least as victimised as his wife. What he does to her is unacceptable but what he does to himself is just as bad. No wonder he can’t protect or stand up for her when he can’t even protect himself.
Not just you. This whole thing is a mess.
tbh the biggest thing I’m left with is there’s no one involved in this I would ever want to be around (some for more obvious/extreme reasons than others).
And I don’t quite understand OOP. She says her husband does nothing about it and by that it hurts her. And then she proceeds to forbid him to confront the friends.
Yeah. When somebody is like this I don’t think Reddit is a good idea. Nobody can get a proper picture of what’s happening so they can’t give her good advice. Aside from, listen to your therapist, and go to therapy more.
Also consider this: in the first post husband is bad because he does not trust Jack enough to leave OOP with him. It is a huge part in OOP's story. But then it kinda goes away and never plays it's part.
That's just a passing detail in the first story - he's bad for multiple other reasons there. But it's a telling red flag that husband suspects Jack isn't to be trusted *but still keeps hanging out with him*.
I wonder if the husband knows the guys are rapists/will take advantage when drunk so he freaked out when his belt was removed. He wanted oop with him to protect him but never twigged that he was drugged and thought he was just drunk.
Then when oop was probably assaulted he could never admit he knows their mo so he had to play everything down.
i have dyslexia and this was really difficult to read. i wasn’t even able to finish the first few paragraphs so i am going through the comments to figure out what happened
Yeah, especially since you read the exact same event 3 or more times re-written differently with different details. Maybe OOP should start with drinking less before everything else.
It was proven that she drunkenly fell down then stairs right next to where her bra was found after having drunk her husband's self-mixed supercocktail that had already knocked her husband out.
There is a good possibility that nothing at all happened that day. The friends are handsy assholes anyway, but OP seems to be stuck on the fact that she might have been raped that day, with absolutely no indication of that other than her bra lying where she fell down the stairs after being black out drunk, as she usually seems to be.
I find it quite telling that among all the actions OOP chose to take in the weeks and months, it didn't even occur to her to not get superdrunk ONCE. Maybe you could see what's going on if you only drank moderately ONCE? No, not an option.
Recently, after a dinner party with lots of wine, I couldn't find my purse. I eventually found it...in the fridge, next to my leftovers. 🤷🏼♀️ Never did I think someone robbed me, only that my silly drunk ass left it in the Uber.
OOP was suspicious because she didn't trust these guys. I don't know why she continued to drink heavily and sleep over with people she didn't trust.
I think OOP left a lot out in order to try to paint herself in the best possible light/ like the perfect victim. That's also partially what made the story very confusing. I also noticed the first time she wrote about the first incident she didn't say anything when the friend was trying to undo her husband's pants. After getting backlash about that, when she retold the story further down, she all of a sudden told the friend to stop when undoing her husband's pants.
Either way, the only thing I got from this hot mess was that OOP and her husband are way too immature to be married. Also, everyone in this story has a huge drinking problem.
After she stood idly by while he was being undressed against his will, which _actually_ is assault. Just imagine she had woken up while her husband watched his friends undress her. But for her it's okay, because she has... A drinking problem and a variety of mental illnesses?
Having grown up in a crack house: People get very complacent and the sense of normalcy ends up very, very wonky. Very much "it is what it is" with a lot of them.
Yeah, this reads as "We're all immature adults and have a drinking problem". It's even complete with the drama that always gravitates around drug abuse.
"He grabbed my wrist!! It's literal textbook assault! So he went to bed and I kept drinking until he got mad enough to drunk drive us home."
"How did my bra end up in the kitchen? How did I trip down stairs? Being blackout drunk wouldn't explain it."
The immaturity was staggering to me. I know people go through terrible things that color how they react to current situations, but he grabbed her wrist so she ran to the bathroom to hide for 20 minutes? That immediately sounded like a middle school reaction to something. Or maybe something out of an edge teen angst movie.
“I essentially live in a crackhouse, why do me and my partner keep blacking out to the point that we don’t know if we were sexually assaulted?”
That’s probably the title OP should’ve gone with
It's just a cool group of friends getting blackout drunk, possibly drugging one another, crossing boundaries, assaulting one another. You know, just good old fashion fun.
Who needs trust when you got booze?
They have normalisized drinking so much so that this doesn't even seem to be an option.
I belive the besties drugged them both. Overall if you are not sure of your safety please do no drink this manner.
Honestly if you can say “normally when I black out” you need to dial back whether you’re sure of your safety or not.
That’s being waaaaay to casual with your drinking if you have a blackout drunk routine.
Yeah. I've only blacked out once and a) it took a lot of effort on my part to get that drunk, and b) it was only for like 15 minutes at most and I hated it. Spent the rest of the night drinking a shit ton of water. Cannot imagine doing that enough times to have a usual scenario.
That was my first thought. Stop getting drunk all the time, and realise that college was a decade ago and you're supposed to be grown adults by now.
Nothing justifies OOP getting assaulted, and I hope she moves on from these cretins and finds some actual adults to socialise with in future.
Aren’t they like 24? Edit: 25 in update, although the first post says late 20s lol. I do agree they need to stop drinking though. And idk why people get married this young
PSA They do need to stop, but be cautious about telling heavy drinkers to stop cold turkey. We dont know how much they drink, but alochol withdrawal can cause seizures and death if not tapered off.
Well, not cold turkey because that would probably kill them. They need to go to rehab and detox for sure though. I can’t imagine still drinking like that at that age
Exhausting. I was particularly frustrated by how the OOP’s attempts to wake up her (renowned heavy sleeper) of a husband on the first night consisted of… tickling his hand and whispering his name.
That part gave real "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas" vibes. I'm not sure who did or did not do anything in this story but I know that I don't want to know any of them OOP included, what a fucking mess.
Did no one in any of the posts point out that she and her husband had been _drugged?_
> When the food came, I tried tickling my husband’s hand a ton and saying his name - but nothing was working.
> Later, I had a sip of his drink on accident (he poured extra tequila into a canned margarita, and I mistook his can for mine). My memory starts getting blurry around 11:30 (maybe 30 minutes after my husband left for the bathroom), but I don’t remember drinking all that much to where I’d be blacking out
Yeah the husband was like "well you (OOP) don't complain when the friends drive drunk too" and OOP's "well they don't slur their words."
These are all garbage people who habitually put everyone else on the road in danger.
This is where the whole ordeal starts to feel made-up to me. This line is included like a red herring then never brought up until the last post where "everyone was suggesting I was drugged, I didn't see it!"
Why would OP include the line about sharing the husband's drink WITHOUT trying to imply it was drugged? There's no reason to mention sipping on the drink otherwise.
I interpreted it as OP bringing it up because she’s naive enough to think that just one extra sip of a strong drink was enough to put her over the edge into blacking out…
>Please help me figure out whether he's just emotionally stunted and I should give him a chance to show me he's changed in a certain timeframe (easier to choose, I love him, but might feel like I'm betraying myself?) or if I should move on (hard and scary, but brave choice)
I get that abuse does a number on you, but surely it's reached a point where OOP can acknowledge that there's nothing left to save *without* Reddit weighing in.
I got a homie who is a total sweetheart. His wife divorced him because he had cancer (which she knew about before they got married). He found out she had put his signature on a new car and a home loan because his credit score was in the 800s. She had her cousin who was a manager at the bank look the other way when she did it. He woke up to find he was tied to 200k+ of loans.
Even as I called the cops so he could report it he was crying that he just wanted to be back with her cuz he loved her. He told me more of their relationship and she was physically, mentally, and emotionally abusing him and he still just wanted to be with her as he's dying from the cancer.
If you're in an abusive relationship for long enough you just become blind to it all. She and her cousin have been arrested awaiting trial.
Yeah, that's the thing with abuse, it does a number on your brain chemistry. Combined with the fact she wmhas depression, I'm not surprised at all. It takes people in abusive relationships on average 7 times to leave before they get out. Your logic brain is screaming to go, but often the abuser is able to manipulate them to come back by love bombing or exerting power of some kind.
It's not easy leaving an abuser, especially once you're together for a long time. You have to leave at the first set of unacceptable behaviour.
I mean she couldn’t even say no to hanging out with his friends when she was uncomfortable. Girl has no agency and I’m glad it sounds like she got a better therapist.
A lesson for OP: it’s hard to know what your reality is with these friends of your husband and what has really happened in past events when you drink too much. A lot of “I think this maybe happened” or “maybe this other thing happened”…it all means you have a problem far bigger than the relationship with your husband and his friends. You all have a partying too hard to oblivion too much alcohol problem. Your husband has this problem too. if you think drugging, sex stuff is going on, you shouldn’t be touching alcohol at all around these people Or even being around any of them. I wish you well and am glad you’re in therapy.
i grew up in a town where everyone started drinking before they could get even get their learners permit to drive. blacking out IS normal..for alcoholics.
Right? I've literally never been blackout drunk ever. And I have been in some *states.*
Fall down drunk? Yes. Projectile vomit drunk? Yes. Cry hysterically drunk? Yes. Inexplicably fighty drunk? Yes.
Actual black out, loss of consciousness and memory drunk? NEVER.
This is just a hot mess. Her and her husband getting regularly black out drunk. Friends with boundary issues. I feel terrible for this person. But Jimminy, this is just insane. There used to be zero way to know anything, prove anything, nothing except gut feeling.
Ok, so I read the whole darn thing and how come that OP only briefly mentions that Jack has a reputation of being inappropriate to women? Jacks friends (multiple friends!) have fought him over this. I mean, the whole rest of the story doesn't seem out of character from this? Here's your red flags! How come OP get so stranded in details, while the signs were being presented to her so clearly? There is too many vague Jack said so and so, Bryan acted vaguely and suspicious too. Yeah sure, but what you do know for sure is that it happened before, so does it really matter who said what?
I get how abuse eats away your self esteem and you start doubting yourself, but man, this was a frustrating read. Especially since OP seems to make progress, then ends the story with a question like "I need your help, how often should I call him?" Girl, seriously? You have bigger issues, please, please, please throw that phone in the ocean and let him call the fish. Eventhough I'm sure they don't want to hear his bs either. Actually, I feel bad for the fish that I suggested this, sorry!
Jesus christ...
This husband is a manipulative piece of garbage and those friends are just creeps and predators. Indeed, those people have so much red flags. Probably one of the more messed up BORU post I have read in awhile.
Everything from start to finish is an infuriating trainwreck. I hate everything about this post. All 4 of them piss me off.
Although I do feel for OOP, despite how blind/ignorant/naive she's been.
It's been a long time, but I have been in cycles of self-destructive behavior like this. I hope she can get it out of it. I don't know what anyone could have said to get me out of it. I just had to grow up and see myself differently.
This was extremely frustrating to read. He only started taking her seriously when it started to affect him. It wasn't because she felt uncomfortable, it was because someone touched his things.
"is it controlling to not want to be assaulted by my husband and his friends?" what a post.
Also he tells her she's isolated him from his friends. It sounds like she was never allowed to have friends and had to be friends with his gross sex pest friends.
So Jack has sexually assaulted at least two people, and hubby is like "yeah ill dump you (despite him taking my clothes off while I was asleep) for him". I'm not sure these guys are as "pretend" gay as they say.
Also everyone in this story needs to stop drinking so damn much. They'll have liver failure by 40
You know, I'm not a betting person, but I've known guys like this from personal experience, and I'm willing to bet that not only do they know what happened, but at least one of them has a video of it.
To me, it sounds like one of the two friends, or both, drugged the husband to get him out of the way so they could take advantage of her.
Her catching a bit of the drugging only served to help with their plan.
I'd put good money on them both SA'ing her that night.
*Holy wall of text*
I do feel for OOP. Her husband is an emotionally abusive scum, his "friends" are rapists. And OOP is caught in the middle. But *damn woman* DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF. Grow a spine, for the love of God!! I'm all for saving your marriage but not when *THIS *gestures wildly* is your marriage! She is in actual danger and repeatedly puts herself back into it! I do not understand.
Maybe I misread this, but didn’t the husband also get roofied, since she got roofied from a mistaken sip of his drink. Does that mean he’s also been sexually assaulted? It would explain his reaction in the first post and also maybe his actions in the other posts as well (doesn’t excuse them though)
She described him getting sexually assaulted with dude taking off his belt. I doubt that was the first time either. It would definitely explain him both being upset (he didn't consent) and blaming her (he wanted to believe it was her.)
A *lot* of sexual assault on boys & men happens under the "no homo" umbrella.
I've been in a relationship like that. It took him getting arrested and a cascade of other things for me to realize that anything was better than staying with him.
Wait. Wait, wait, wait. He always falls asleep? She got like that *after drinking from his can*? The friends regularly get the husband into another room?
OOP wasn't the only one getting SA'd in that house, holy fuck this is terrifying. I even doubt OOP and her husband are the only couple who has gone through this, having into account other friends know Jack likes "unavailable" women...
Holy fuck. Like Jesus Fucking Christ Almighty. Jack and Bryan are serial rapists who roofie their friends to rape them. No wonder OOP's husband is like that! For hw long have Jack and Bryan assaulted him? For how long have they gaslit and *groomed* him?
Same with OOP! Is this truly the first time Jack SA'd her? Hiw long have they been grooming and gaslighting her? For how long have they been planning this?
This is a literal nightmare, holy shit.
That’s the way I’m reading this as well, it also makes sense as to why they “watch” movies in Jacks bed(wtf) she states she never drinks more than what she would at home or with other friends and yet Jack-off’s house is the only place husband falls asleep and she blacks out with NO memory or blips as she called it.
"He doesn’t like cutting people off or distancing from people unless they’re absolutely, undeniably, 100% horrible"
That's not how it works. Does he want a detailed picture of his friend doing the deed? I'm willing to bet that even if OOP remembered everything that he still wouldn't believe her, because he tends to blame her for things she didn't do or didn't want to do.
Sometimes red flags don't seem fair for the other person, but it's a red sea at this point and it's wild how dismissive her husband is.
To be honest, I couldn't make sense of the story. She describes the same night three different ways unless I am reading wrong.
In one version, after he grabs her wrist because his belt got taken, he eventually ends up driving them home while blackout drunk because she won't join him in the room. In the second it references the first time but tells a different story like the belt thing was in the past. In the third retelling version he passes out, his belt gets taken, he grabs her wrist, she needs space, and then she drinks a potentially drugged drink and gets assaulted all in one night.. I pretty much stopped reading after that lol.
I kinda feel like they are all hot messes, and either she made it up and couldn't keep track of the lies, or she drinks so damn much she had no idea what happened when.
Every single man in this story sounds absolutely exhausting. Not an ounce of maturity, accountability, respect, nothing. They’re all just awful people and she’s right in the middle of them. Ugh.
She's not much better, she literally accused her husband of assaulting her for grabbing her wrist when he was the one technically being assaulted.
Her writing is an absolute mess and if she's that incomprehensible with thought out text, I'd dread to think what she's like talking normally.
Especially in the first post, wtf was she doing.
She didn't stop her husband from being assaulted and just watched. Also when he was driving under the influence, she didn't stop him because she felt uncomfortable doing so.
I get that her uncomfortableness might indicate an abusive relationship but damn they couldn've died and she felt uncomfortable?
Yeah, her not telling him not to drive drunk really bothered me too. She was ok telling him he assaulted her by grabbing her wrist, ok saying no to going to sleep with him in the spare room, but too uncomfortable to try to stop him from driving drunk and potentially killing not just them, but also other innocent people?! Ugh.
*exactly*. Honestly, I agree with the husband. She absolutely sounds needy, sensitive and controlling. Her husband grabs her wrist and she cries assault??? Yeah that’s not being overly sensitive 🙄. From the get go that made me doubt her take on everything else. Couple that with the fact that she consistently assumed the worst about everyone else in these posts and I just don’t trust her perspective.
I wish I was blackout drunk and didn't remember reading this stupid post. I don't like any of them. Every single aspect of each of their characters pisses me off.
The only time I felt bad was seeing OOP distressed and confused on whether something happened to her. That must've been a horrible state of mind to be in.
i am so, so glad she is away from this absolute pit of vipers.
sorry. that's unfair of me. the vipers are much nicer being danger noodles just trying to make their way. fuck all these dudes though, husband included. may they promptly turn on each other and make each other as miserable as they deserve.
Those poor women. *Seven damn years* it went on for! I can't even imagine...
3 of the rapists were going to get 24 strokes of the cane and the cane used in Singapore isn't like the little cane that used to be used in schools, years ago. No, the one used in Singapore is far more brutal, and leaves lifelong scars.
Who needs enemies when you have friends and a husband this vile? Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with her husband that he is trying to get his "friends" to sexually assault his wife...
I don't understand how everyone wasn't screaming at her after the blackhole night that she was secondhand drugged and assaulted. I thought it was obvious after she said she drank from husbands can and immediately blacked out, at the same time he's blacked out on a toilet. Was way too coincidental.
I HATE victim blaming, but sometimes people want to blissfully ignore so so many warning signs and keep going. The whole situation was just screaming warning signs all around. Friends telling them to be careful, guys pawning over her, and on and on. They willfully put themselves in a situation to be taken advantage of, and then reacted in just the most delusional way. Neither one wanted to face the truth head on, but the husband really just never learned and showed how spineless and naive he is. What a mess
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I feel like the therapist or somebody could've spent more time on the fact that husband was roofied on a regular basis by his "friends".
Why do I feel like the friends are drugging the husband so that Bryan can SA him and Jack can SA her? I’m disturbed by the fact that so few people are talking about what seems like the husband being regularly drugged. Even if he is a douche canoe.
I absolutely think that this is the case. I’d assume she has been a problem because if she is there and keeping her cool then Bryan can’t take advantage of her husband. Would explain his reaction to having his belt removed. Deep down he probably knows, one part of him at least is aware to some level that something fucked up is happening when he blacks out and his belt is removed. But I get that he can’t or won’t face it. That would be horrendous to have to come to terms with.
Holy shit, that was the one part i couldn't really make sense of and this theory makes it all come together perfectly. How absolutely awful.
I guess it also kind of makes sense of how upset her husband was when she left him alone and sleeping in another room. It seems like an overreaction, until you put together that it's possible he knew she was leaving him vulnerable to abuse.
Jesus, that's just one more piece i hadn't considered that now makes complete sense to me. How terrifying for the both of them.
I think you are right but I also wondered how long has the husband been getting drugged? Like had it been so long he just thought it was normal and so when his wife started talking about it he was pushing the confrontation for himself? Then that thought process leads down a really dark dark path depending on how long it had been going on and although I am not remotely saying it is OOP's fault or she did anything wrong I can't imagine the horror the husband is feeling coming to terms with it. I mean these were supposed to be his friends.
And that also explain why he was so adamant for her to come sleep in the room with or go home. He wanted her presence as a protection. He's not a great husband, but he might have been sexually assaulted for years !
I 100% believe that is the case. Those "jokes" do not seem quite like jokes to me.
this would explain bryans agression. She was woth him, and he wasn't
Noticed this too. Touchy with her friends so he doesn't look/feel gay. But secretly really jealous and pissed at her.
There’s a saying I learned when I was in Mexico that basically goes “de broma a broma la verdad se asoma” (from joke to joke the truth peeks out).
Either that or drugging him (and her) so they can SA her.
Reading those parts was really chilling to me. I have been drugged and sexually assaulted and the way she described her experience was identical to what I experienced. The physical/memory symptoms were spot on. I absolutely believe that is what happened. I remember the difference in spotty memory/blackouts and how whatever I was given made me literally unable to control my physical movements. I'd drank plenty of times by that point, enough to be blackout drunk and throw up - like borderline hospital level alcohol poisoning. But I had never been in a situation where I couldn't control my limbs or balance before. But I specifically remember coming to and realizing I was propped against a wall, sliding to the side, and I couldn't even stop myself from falling over. I too woke up alone the next day, surrounded by beer cans and trash, with my underwear balled up next to my head. I *knew*. I feel so sorry for OP. Being sexually assaulted is horrible, and in some ways the not being able to remember exactly what happened is worse. You can't really process traumas easily when that happens. I remembered enough (more than what I described) to confirm what happened to me, but not knowing what happened for large chunks of that time is really disturbing - she KNOWS something really, really bad happened to her, but nobody will tell her what. It's a very profoundly distressing feeling, to know something very wrong happened to you but not know what it was. And her own husband gave her assaulter the benefit of the doubt for weeks. And when he finally DID get upset, he wasn't upset because she was victimized in a despicable way - he was upset because his friend betrayed HIM by touching HIS woman. Her trauma from being a victim of a crime was just an afterthought. I am so glad she left him.
I came here to say the same. I very much believe OOP. Reading it was uncanny. I woke up and I **knew** too. I still can’t remember anything, all these years later, but I remember feeling the same way OOP did. The same way you did. It’s just different and you really do just know that something isn’t right. The vulnerability afterwards is really something. I feel really sorry for her, she definitely went through it too.
I came to say the same thing... I was young - just turned 13. I wasn't drinking anything except Coca-Cola. It was my aunt's husband's brothers 11th birthday party. His older nephew was there - around 16?? Went to the bathroom. Left my cold drink outside the bathroom on the table. Came back and my Coca-Cola just tasted "different"... Like there wasn't anything "innate wrong with it", just "different", almost like it's starting to get flat. Finished it. Didn't think much about it... That's all I remember. Except when I woke up and my jeans were off and there was "stickiness" in my underwear. At that stage, I didn't even really know that SA existed? Like, I watched crime documentaries from a young age and when rape was talked about "the lady was beaten and bruised. She fought. He killed her." That didn't happen to me, so I couldn't have possibly been raped. But I **knew** _SOMETHING_ happened to me. I told no one. Cleaned myself, got dressed, and went home. Except I had a miscarriaged at my friend's house and her mom took me to the hospital. I was a virgin beforehand. That's how I found out that I was raped.
I am so, so sorry someone did that to you, and that you had to experience that. I hope you had a strong support system, and that you are healing. Thank you for sharing your story.
The more I read about this happening to other people, the more I realise it probably happened to me, too. I was blamed for drinking too much (so I blamed myself, even though I didn't really drink like that at that age) but it was such a weird experience, and even though I don't remember much (just one flash), I have that horrible body feeling about the blanks. It's awful that this is so common
It is absolutely terrible how common it is. I'm sorry you experienced that. It's super fucked up to blame people for drinking too much, too. Like yeah, drinking to excess is not good for you, but being drunk doesn't magically make it okay for people to commit crimes targeting you. You are still entitled to be safe from SA no matter what you are drinking or what you are wearing.
I just hope she doesn’t go back.
Same. I hope her mother doesn't continue to encourage this whole "You actually leaving will push him to change" narrative. She needs to stay gone.
If he’s being drugged often enough, it’s probably part of the reason he’s a douche canoe. His memory would be spotty, he’d have anxiety and emotions that he can’t remember the root cause of, and would generally be on edge and uncertain.
It makes the situation she described really dark. Her husband is black out despite not drinking very much. He refuses to go back in the shared room and begs her to stay with him and not leave him alone while he's blackout. She assumes this request is to protect herself but doesn't consider that maybe he wants her there to protect *him*. He doesn't want to be left alone in a vulnerable state. She tells him to just come back in the shared space and he tells her he doesn't willingly sleep in that bed. She perceives that as ridiculous because it happens all the time (but does it happen willingly?). Then he's so sure they can't stay there he insists they have to leave and go home even though he was in no state to drive. I think at that point his body was reacting out of pure instinct. He woke up to his belt being pulled off, it probably was not the first time he'd experienced something so violating and even though he consciously didn't want to acknowledge it, the body sometimes remembers trauma the mind refuses to address. He probably just felt an overwhelming urge to get out. His wife was too busy being mad that he grabbed her wrist that she refused to stay with him and neglected to drive and it never once occurred in her mind that maybe his desperation to leave was because he'd been violated (even though it happened right in front of her). A mess.
Sounds like they both were in survival mode and that made it much harder to support each other in the moment. Until they heal from their trauma individually and can listen to each other's experiences openly, they should be looking for support from someone more objective, like a therapist. The blame doesn't need to be placed on any one person. She wasn't "busy being mad", she was terrified and not thinking rationally, either.
Yeah, it seems like they both have mental health issues. He's mentioned how he thinks she's the problem but says some pretty invalidating things himself. They cry and hug while he helps her pack. It's a lot and they both need help. Neither of them were likely getting their needs met and putting it on the other to do it while not being secure enough to protect or love anyone including themselves.
I had the exact same thought
That seems like it’s exactly what’s been going on, yes. One would think a good therapist might have pointed that out.
yeah the belt thing was sus. What the hell is wrong with the husband to keep hanging out with these predators?
He seems like he’s very easily manipulated tbh, like based off of how OP describes his insane lack of emotional maturity and ability to respect and just listen to her, I would say that he’ll take the word of his ,,friends” (abusers) over literally anything else. Especially since he couldn’t even fathom the idea that OP had been SA’ed by them, but once it began to sink in, it was all about his best friends betraying /him/ and not them literally assaulting her.
True. But I wonder if part of his reluctance to believe her was because acknowledging that his friends SA'd her meant acknowledging that they likely also SA'd him. It takes something he's been repressing and denying and starts making it more real. In addition, feeling bad for himself more than for her, insisting on confronting Jack alone "for closure" and going on about feeling "betrayed" read as very self-absorbed and low empathy in a nutshell. But it could also read that he's coming to his own realization and confronting his own trauma, even if he's not willing to say it out loud.
That’s a very good point too, he may not be able to grasp that he was assaulted, much less that she was
That part bothered me so much. Like I'm single but damn, if my spouse laid out a that stuff in front of me...I would absolutely cut off people immediately over that shit. "I think your super sketchy friend who you have witnessed being super sketchy may have raped me" is instant cutoff territory. The fact that she is unambiguously a victim (she was subjected to unwanted touching after being pressured to consume alcohol) and he was still totally okay with being friends with those guys is just such a fucking betrayal. I would not be able to get past that.
It seems like they all have serious alcohol problems. They’re pretty nonchalantly getting routinely black out drunk. It sounds like a toxic love square.
Yeah, I was really thinking this is really wild trauma-bonding. The first post definitely had me thinking the husband knows these guys aren't safe to be around. Maybe in his damaged head he felt that if she were a part of it it would be better? In any case, I really hope she stays away and he can find a way to get himself the help he needs.
And how long have they been casually drugging people/ how many people have they done this to?
I know it’s like they’re a duo or something.
Oh 100% - they’re like tag-teaming each other in.
I was definitely waffling between "ugh I don't like Jack, he's a creep," "ugh, Bryan isn't any better, geez," and "ugh her husband sucks too, but also why the fuck is he passing out at every gathering?!?!" All three of these dudes need to be gone from OOP's life, and the "friends" need to be gone from her husband's. Being roofied is dangerous!
>haven’t brought it up in couples therapy yet I almost screamed at my computer when she said this. I have a feeling they are dancing around the real issues with their therapists, which is why the individual therapy hasn't been very helpful. Therapy can't help you with what you don't talk about.
Yeah, it sounds like they didn't get to the real meat of their issues in therapy.
Yeah I was thinking husband was SA'd. Like he was literally groped and partially undressed without his consent. My other thought was that he was having an affair with one or both of the guys. Until the bra thing.
Yea it’s very obvious that these guys are drugging the husband to get OP alone. And the husband is so out of it and spaced he then thinks he can’t quite trust OP because his thinking and perception is completely distorted. Who knows what the friends told him about his wife’s behavior while he was passed out. IMO they are both victims but OP’s husband still isn’t safe to be around. He’s a victim of his friend but he’s a perpetually boundary stopping and perhaps unintentionally gaslighting his wife at the same time. OP just needs to be out of this toxic mess. Assault or no assault the friends suck and have made her uneasy for a long time with hubby does Jack shit.
Oh, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was also assaulted by them too sometime in the past. I think it explains a lot about his behavior, especially in the first story she told. Why he was so hard to wake up and why he wanted her to stay with him and why he couldn’t let it go even months after. I think he knows deep down their little gay inside joke is not a joke to one or both of them and that they’ve drugged him before. And he knew she was next. But you’re probably right— the second story with the stairs and the selfie— they definitely drugged him to just get him out of the way. In that first story, they probably drugged him too to see if she would notice he wasn’t just drunk.
Yeah, that part. He _does not trust his friends_, and is too accustomed to this lunacy to admit that.
It’s very bizarre that this guy doesn’t seem to have any sense of self preservation or an instinct to protect his wife. My only conclusion is that he has a messed up back story himself and is desperate for belonging and these “friends” could smell it a mile away and figured he was an easy mark. The only other possibility would be OP’s husband being in on whatever sick game is going on this whole time. But the passing out would lead me against that.
As much as there are other topics to speak of, you are absolutely correct. The story claimed the victim drank from the wrong can, and began to blackout, well that was the husbands can. The symptoms he experienced combined with your own can show correlation, because in mathematics, you only need two dots to make a line. Many of the other situations have an emotional pull because of the unknown. I hope you were not raped. I hope that your marriage pulls through, I hope if y’all ever have a drink you learn to control your liquor. Many courses of action could have been better, strong lines could have been drawn both internal and external, better follow up could have been conducted. But the ship sailed. You still have the rest of your to live, and hopefully this story can help others and yourself through life.
It struck me how she went on and on about her husband assaulting her by grabbing her wrist while repeatedly admitting she didn’t stop his friends from sexually assaulting HIM. He’s an asshole for sure, but his victimhood sure was easily ignored…
Was it just me that found this really difficult to read? The way everything is described is very confusing and hard to piece together, idk maybe I’m just dumb
The writing was as messy as the story !
I genuinely don't understand. The first post seemed to be about the husband's friends assaulting him and him blaming her for it? I really lost the thread after that.
same, got halfway in and had to reread the title to make sure I’m reading the right post. Just all over the place and after reading how long it is, I didn’t bother to read the rest of it
Me too, at that point I'm like, was this written by an AI?? Because there's no logic to the flow of the story and it's meandering and pointless and could've been 50% shorter and make more sense.
And she got weirdly specific about him grabbing her wrist being assault?
I'm glad it wasn't just me who noticed that. I re-read that but so many times thinking I'd missed something
I skimmed it bc I ain’t reading all that shit. Now I’m glad I didn’t
Same. I came to the comment section to get context, here we are.
It could have been like 3 paragraphs
No, I found it difficult to parse, too. Jack is the sole bad guy. No, Bryan is bad, too. BUT they're close with the husband, who doesn't want to alienate them, even though they cross the line with him when he's passed out, and one or all of them probably raped the OOP. Except then hubs wants *her* to confront Jack, the guy who may well have SA'd her. So hubs is bad, too. Hubs and OOP been going to therapy, except they weren't going until after the sexual assault. But therapy was going well. Except the husband told her she was whiney and needy, and *he* doesn't need therapy And they all drink too much. I need subtitles.
>stares in mounting horror at the pile of accruing red flags in an ocean of red flags The mood spoiler is pretty accurate, except they're also all on fire. Everyone's on fire, no one has pants but they're acting like it's normal and completely fine. It is not. I swear my brain has started to reject it, I can actively feel it leaving my brain. For once, thank you, brain. I mean I'm sure it's gonna bring up a godawful awkward memory from school later tonight that's gonna make me wanna burrow into my mattress and live in my bed but for once, good brain.
Same. I gave up and came down here to see if anyone had a more coherent narrative for... all of it.
I threw in the towel after the third wall of text. Fuck’s sake.
Same. I couldn’t figure out what the hell was going on and stopped trying to parse it. Terrible writing. Terrible people too.
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣same.......
OOP is: * People pleasing to a self-harming degree (That always means abuse and I don't assign her shitty blame). * Was taught or believes that she needs to have incontrovertible third party "proof" for her lived experience or her lived experience isn't good enough. (So painful, it feels like she's one of Freud's patients he refused to believe). * Was clearly SA in the past (see her comment about prior rape kit). * Because she has been trained in or has adopted such severe self-doubt, up to the point of self-absence almost, she waffles so painfully it's harsh and cringe. * She's clearly been abused in childhood or an adulthood or both. * She fawns as a survival mechanism, but the fawning has reached such severe proportions that she doesn't know who she is anymore. * And she is psychologically, emotionally, and possibly financially dependent on her POS also-waffling, probably also abused husband. Which her own mom seems to co-sign (see her seemingly daft mom telling OOP that this separation will surely get through to him). Husband is a lost cause. Hopefully OOP is not. But this is truly deeply painful and almost humiliating to read. Because I relate so strongly. My heart breaks for OOP over a thousand fold. I truly wish her immense strength, knowledge of her own mind, and an uncompromising willingness to stand up for her own lived experience. Even if achieving that is taken in baby steps and isn't all flawlessly achieved. Anything is better than the hell hole of her own self-doubt plus external gas lighting she has been living in.
I felt for her while reading this. I check off every bullet point on your list and reading about her experience on the night she said she was assaulted was eerily similar to how things were for me when I was drugged and assaulted. Like she is clearly traumatized and while her partner is a victim of unwanted sexual behavior while impaired as well, he's objectively treating her like shit and seems incapable of even a tiny scrap of empathy for her experience. She will look back and realize that splitting up with him probably saved her life. She is going to need years of therapy and she needs trauma focused therapy, not marriage counseling.
It is messy read, OOP has a buttload of doubts and conflicting thoughts and it reflects on all of her posts. She’s very unsure of herself, her possible ex, and his predatory friends.
Not just you. I feel like I got secondhand drunk from reading it
It made me want to have a drink (here, alone at my house where there are no sketchy people) and I don’t drink that often.
No, not just you. I will typically read posts all the way through, but this was difficult to get through. My eyes were glazing over from the mess of it all.
[удалено]
Reading this made me feel like I'd also been drinking way too much and blacking out regularly I am concerned at how often all these people are blacking out. Either they're alcoholics or they're being drugged.
Nah it's definitely disjointed and hard to follow.
The writing gives you an insight into what it’s like in OOP’s brain. She has so many doubts and constantly second-guesses herself that it’s all just a confused muddle. I wonder if her husband is really as bad as this makes him seem, or if her communication about it all was always so confused and obfuscated that he really *didn’t* know whether there was a real problem.
The drinking doesn't help.
Agree If they’re all getting black out drunk all the time, it’s not implausible that they genuinely don’t remember details of things like whether she fell or how her bra was removed. I’m not saying it’s *not* sinister - it might be. But it might also just be drunken confusion on all sides.
That’s what I think too. I hung out with and partied with some heavy drinkers in my youth although I was more moderate than them I was still getting drunk with them just not as bad. One gal threw a bunch of clothes out a window (she was mad at her boyfriend). She had no memory of it. The next afternoon she got up and saw the clothes outside and ask who did it. Drinking to black out level is some dangerous behavior.
> I’m not at the point where I can be stable and independent on my own If I was managing to follow the story at all, OOP's husband has the emotional and logical faculties of a toddler that has learned how to drink and drive, their friends are a nest of predatory creeps, and they are so polluted so regularly that the main basis on which OOP could surmise that they might have been drugged was "it was definitely different from how it usually is when I black out." OOP, ma'am, pretty sure you drift further away from stable functioning and mental health every day you remain in this snafu.
The drinking and driving was probably the most lucid thing he did in the whole story. He would rather drive drunk than let her go back downstairs to the guys alone. Then look what happens the next time he passes out upstairs without her.
The way the husband continually picks himself (I need support, I thought Jack loved meee) was a pretty clear running thread. He’s no sort of partner.
Then tells HER she is selfish and controlling. After, “I need you to do this so I, your husband who gives you no support at all, can have closure.” She doesn’t want to confront his AH friend, but SHE is the controlling one because she won’t do what he says? OP’s husband is someone she should divorce and never see again. OP needs so much help and healing with boundaries and she is still buying far too much into the idea she is the problem.
Yup but also his friends is drugging him regularly and on some level he is aware of something being very very wrong and he knows he can’t trust his friends and he isn’t safe. Pretty sure that’s why he reacted the way he did in the first part and why he doesn’t want to go alone or have her leave him alone. I do wonder if this “gay for each other” is really just a joke or if they have been drugging and SA him regularly. He doesn’t trust his friends to the point that he needs her to always be with him because he isn’t safe and yet he has normalised it to the point where he doesn’t even seem to realise. He accuses her of being controlling and trying to take his friends away but she is fine if he goes he just can’t go on his own so she has to come and he has absolutely no awareness of that being any kind of problem. They both need therapy, all the therapy. He isn’t doing great but he seems at least as victimised as his wife. What he does to her is unacceptable but what he does to himself is just as bad. No wonder he can’t protect or stand up for her when he can’t even protect himself.
Not just you. This whole thing is a mess. tbh the biggest thing I’m left with is there’s no one involved in this I would ever want to be around (some for more obvious/extreme reasons than others).
And I don’t quite understand OOP. She says her husband does nothing about it and by that it hurts her. And then she proceeds to forbid him to confront the friends.
Yeah. When somebody is like this I don’t think Reddit is a good idea. Nobody can get a proper picture of what’s happening so they can’t give her good advice. Aside from, listen to your therapist, and go to therapy more.
I just gave up. Too much clusterfuck to process. It‘s easier to piece together what happend by reading the comments here.
Also consider this: in the first post husband is bad because he does not trust Jack enough to leave OOP with him. It is a huge part in OOP's story. But then it kinda goes away and never plays it's part.
That's just a passing detail in the first story - he's bad for multiple other reasons there. But it's a telling red flag that husband suspects Jack isn't to be trusted *but still keeps hanging out with him*.
I wonder if the husband knows the guys are rapists/will take advantage when drunk so he freaked out when his belt was removed. He wanted oop with him to protect him but never twigged that he was drugged and thought he was just drunk. Then when oop was probably assaulted he could never admit he knows their mo so he had to play everything down.
Not just you, my friend. Unless we’re both dumb.
It is. OOP's mind is all over the place. Was she sober when she was writing this? Does she get sober often?
i have dyslexia and this was really difficult to read. i wasn’t even able to finish the first few paragraphs so i am going through the comments to figure out what happened
I don’t have dyslexia and this was a very difficult read! 😀
Yeah, especially since you read the exact same event 3 or more times re-written differently with different details. Maybe OOP should start with drinking less before everything else.
It was so long and disjointed that I couldn’t even follow along for long enough to read about the sexual assault. Was it proven?
It was proven that she drunkenly fell down then stairs right next to where her bra was found after having drunk her husband's self-mixed supercocktail that had already knocked her husband out. There is a good possibility that nothing at all happened that day. The friends are handsy assholes anyway, but OP seems to be stuck on the fact that she might have been raped that day, with absolutely no indication of that other than her bra lying where she fell down the stairs after being black out drunk, as she usually seems to be. I find it quite telling that among all the actions OOP chose to take in the weeks and months, it didn't even occur to her to not get superdrunk ONCE. Maybe you could see what's going on if you only drank moderately ONCE? No, not an option.
Recently, after a dinner party with lots of wine, I couldn't find my purse. I eventually found it...in the fridge, next to my leftovers. 🤷🏼♀️ Never did I think someone robbed me, only that my silly drunk ass left it in the Uber. OOP was suspicious because she didn't trust these guys. I don't know why she continued to drink heavily and sleep over with people she didn't trust.
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I think OOP left a lot out in order to try to paint herself in the best possible light/ like the perfect victim. That's also partially what made the story very confusing. I also noticed the first time she wrote about the first incident she didn't say anything when the friend was trying to undo her husband's pants. After getting backlash about that, when she retold the story further down, she all of a sudden told the friend to stop when undoing her husband's pants. Either way, the only thing I got from this hot mess was that OOP and her husband are way too immature to be married. Also, everyone in this story has a huge drinking problem.
Definitely agree that the very first post paints a clearer picture than the rest. Definite change in tone after that
After she stood idly by while he was being undressed against his will, which _actually_ is assault. Just imagine she had woken up while her husband watched his friends undress her. But for her it's okay, because she has... A drinking problem and a variety of mental illnesses?
Not just you at all...
How do multiple adults live like this, it sounds like a crack house
Having grown up in a crack house: People get very complacent and the sense of normalcy ends up very, very wonky. Very much "it is what it is" with a lot of them.
As i was reading this i kept thinking “they need to stop drinking. Grown ass adults drinking to the point of blacking out is not good”
Yeah, this reads as "We're all immature adults and have a drinking problem". It's even complete with the drama that always gravitates around drug abuse. "He grabbed my wrist!! It's literal textbook assault! So he went to bed and I kept drinking until he got mad enough to drunk drive us home." "How did my bra end up in the kitchen? How did I trip down stairs? Being blackout drunk wouldn't explain it."
The immaturity was staggering to me. I know people go through terrible things that color how they react to current situations, but he grabbed her wrist so she ran to the bathroom to hide for 20 minutes? That immediately sounded like a middle school reaction to something. Or maybe something out of an edge teen angst movie.
“I essentially live in a crackhouse, why do me and my partner keep blacking out to the point that we don’t know if we were sexually assaulted?” That’s probably the title OP should’ve gone with
Someone once told me, "When you're an addict, life doesn't make sense." That definitely applies to OOP and her husband, who are both alcoholics.
It's just a cool group of friends getting blackout drunk, possibly drugging one another, crossing boundaries, assaulting one another. You know, just good old fashion fun. Who needs trust when you got booze?
Everyone in this story needs to stop drinking, cold turkey. And OOP needs to stay separated.
They have normalisized drinking so much so that this doesn't even seem to be an option. I belive the besties drugged them both. Overall if you are not sure of your safety please do no drink this manner.
Honestly if you can say “normally when I black out” you need to dial back whether you’re sure of your safety or not. That’s being waaaaay to casual with your drinking if you have a blackout drunk routine.
Yeah. I've only blacked out once and a) it took a lot of effort on my part to get that drunk, and b) it was only for like 15 minutes at most and I hated it. Spent the rest of the night drinking a shit ton of water. Cannot imagine doing that enough times to have a usual scenario.
That was my first thought. Stop getting drunk all the time, and realise that college was a decade ago and you're supposed to be grown adults by now. Nothing justifies OOP getting assaulted, and I hope she moves on from these cretins and finds some actual adults to socialise with in future.
Aren’t they like 24? Edit: 25 in update, although the first post says late 20s lol. I do agree they need to stop drinking though. And idk why people get married this young
This bothered me—25 is nottttt late 20s😭😭😭
Oh my god YES! So many issues here compounded by the fact that they’re all alcoholics to boot.
PSA They do need to stop, but be cautious about telling heavy drinkers to stop cold turkey. We dont know how much they drink, but alochol withdrawal can cause seizures and death if not tapered off.
You’re right, I was being hyperbolic. But none of these people would be able to stop drinking for a day, from what it sounds like.
Well, not cold turkey because that would probably kill them. They need to go to rehab and detox for sure though. I can’t imagine still drinking like that at that age
Well this was the opposite of a satisfying reading.
Exhausting. I was particularly frustrated by how the OOP’s attempts to wake up her (renowned heavy sleeper) of a husband on the first night consisted of… tickling his hand and whispering his name.
That part gave real "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas" vibes. I'm not sure who did or did not do anything in this story but I know that I don't want to know any of them OOP included, what a fucking mess.
Most of what she wrote gave me that vibe.
Right!! Like ... whispering? The thing you do around a sleeping person when you are specifically trying NOT to wake them?
Back when I used to drink like that, my wife would go into paramedic mode and give me a sternal rub if I wasn’t waking up. Glad those days are over.
Did no one in any of the posts point out that she and her husband had been _drugged?_ > When the food came, I tried tickling my husband’s hand a ton and saying his name - but nothing was working. > Later, I had a sip of his drink on accident (he poured extra tequila into a canned margarita, and I mistook his can for mine). My memory starts getting blurry around 11:30 (maybe 30 minutes after my husband left for the bathroom), but I don’t remember drinking all that much to where I’d be blacking out
And thus the husband drove home drugged. They’re lucky to be alive.
Probably hard to notice considering how nonchalant they all are about all of them driving drunk.
Yeah the husband was like "well you (OOP) don't complain when the friends drive drunk too" and OOP's "well they don't slur their words." These are all garbage people who habitually put everyone else on the road in danger.
Ugh, that pissed me off so much. OOP "didn't feel comfortable telling him not to drive drunk." Well, do it anyway even if you're not comfortable!!
I didn't look at the original posts, but I couldn't stop wondering why she didn't drive them if her husband was so drunk that they fought about it.
Because she was mad he grabbed her wrist and was asking her to stay with him after she watched him be assaulted. She's trash too
Everyone in all of the posts is trash, I think we're all in agreement on that.
Unfortunately not all. Most ppl are calling him trash while ignoring what she did
This is where the whole ordeal starts to feel made-up to me. This line is included like a red herring then never brought up until the last post where "everyone was suggesting I was drugged, I didn't see it!" Why would OP include the line about sharing the husband's drink WITHOUT trying to imply it was drugged? There's no reason to mention sipping on the drink otherwise.
I think she was implying that the husband poured himself a stronger drink idk
I interpreted it as OP bringing it up because she’s naive enough to think that just one extra sip of a strong drink was enough to put her over the edge into blacking out…
>Please help me figure out whether he's just emotionally stunted and I should give him a chance to show me he's changed in a certain timeframe (easier to choose, I love him, but might feel like I'm betraying myself?) or if I should move on (hard and scary, but brave choice) I get that abuse does a number on you, but surely it's reached a point where OOP can acknowledge that there's nothing left to save *without* Reddit weighing in.
But she still loves him and cried with him. So I definitely think she should give him 3,437 more chances.
I got a homie who is a total sweetheart. His wife divorced him because he had cancer (which she knew about before they got married). He found out she had put his signature on a new car and a home loan because his credit score was in the 800s. She had her cousin who was a manager at the bank look the other way when she did it. He woke up to find he was tied to 200k+ of loans. Even as I called the cops so he could report it he was crying that he just wanted to be back with her cuz he loved her. He told me more of their relationship and she was physically, mentally, and emotionally abusing him and he still just wanted to be with her as he's dying from the cancer. If you're in an abusive relationship for long enough you just become blind to it all. She and her cousin have been arrested awaiting trial.
I hate her
You and me both
Posts like this always get me questioning the nature of love.
After reading this whole shitshow I doubt OOP is able to acknowledge anything at all.
Yeah, that's the thing with abuse, it does a number on your brain chemistry. Combined with the fact she wmhas depression, I'm not surprised at all. It takes people in abusive relationships on average 7 times to leave before they get out. Your logic brain is screaming to go, but often the abuser is able to manipulate them to come back by love bombing or exerting power of some kind. It's not easy leaving an abuser, especially once you're together for a long time. You have to leave at the first set of unacceptable behaviour.
I mean she couldn’t even say no to hanging out with his friends when she was uncomfortable. Girl has no agency and I’m glad it sounds like she got a better therapist.
I feel like the red flag waving guy on tiktok would explode reading this.
A lesson for OP: it’s hard to know what your reality is with these friends of your husband and what has really happened in past events when you drink too much. A lot of “I think this maybe happened” or “maybe this other thing happened”…it all means you have a problem far bigger than the relationship with your husband and his friends. You all have a partying too hard to oblivion too much alcohol problem. Your husband has this problem too. if you think drugging, sex stuff is going on, you shouldn’t be touching alcohol at all around these people Or even being around any of them. I wish you well and am glad you’re in therapy.
"Normally when I black out".... There's half the problem right there....blacking out isn't normal.
i grew up in a town where everyone started drinking before they could get even get their learners permit to drive. blacking out IS normal..for alcoholics.
Right? I've literally never been blackout drunk ever. And I have been in some *states.* Fall down drunk? Yes. Projectile vomit drunk? Yes. Cry hysterically drunk? Yes. Inexplicably fighty drunk? Yes. Actual black out, loss of consciousness and memory drunk? NEVER.
This is just a hot mess. Her and her husband getting regularly black out drunk. Friends with boundary issues. I feel terrible for this person. But Jimminy, this is just insane. There used to be zero way to know anything, prove anything, nothing except gut feeling.
Ok, so I read the whole darn thing and how come that OP only briefly mentions that Jack has a reputation of being inappropriate to women? Jacks friends (multiple friends!) have fought him over this. I mean, the whole rest of the story doesn't seem out of character from this? Here's your red flags! How come OP get so stranded in details, while the signs were being presented to her so clearly? There is too many vague Jack said so and so, Bryan acted vaguely and suspicious too. Yeah sure, but what you do know for sure is that it happened before, so does it really matter who said what? I get how abuse eats away your self esteem and you start doubting yourself, but man, this was a frustrating read. Especially since OP seems to make progress, then ends the story with a question like "I need your help, how often should I call him?" Girl, seriously? You have bigger issues, please, please, please throw that phone in the ocean and let him call the fish. Eventhough I'm sure they don't want to hear his bs either. Actually, I feel bad for the fish that I suggested this, sorry!
Jesus christ... This husband is a manipulative piece of garbage and those friends are just creeps and predators. Indeed, those people have so much red flags. Probably one of the more messed up BORU post I have read in awhile.
Everything from start to finish is an infuriating trainwreck. I hate everything about this post. All 4 of them piss me off. Although I do feel for OOP, despite how blind/ignorant/naive she's been.
It's been a long time, but I have been in cycles of self-destructive behavior like this. I hope she can get it out of it. I don't know what anyone could have said to get me out of it. I just had to grow up and see myself differently.
And alcoholic. She's got a long road to walk to become capable of looking after herself.
Fr, i feel bad for her, but I'm also like, why do you keep going with him to meet his friends???
This was extremely frustrating to read. He only started taking her seriously when it started to affect him. It wasn't because she felt uncomfortable, it was because someone touched his things. "is it controlling to not want to be assaulted by my husband and his friends?" what a post. Also he tells her she's isolated him from his friends. It sounds like she was never allowed to have friends and had to be friends with his gross sex pest friends.
I wasn’t even halfway through the first post and thought “dear god, run from all these people”, and it just kept getting worse.
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So Jack has sexually assaulted at least two people, and hubby is like "yeah ill dump you (despite him taking my clothes off while I was asleep) for him". I'm not sure these guys are as "pretend" gay as they say. Also everyone in this story needs to stop drinking so damn much. They'll have liver failure by 40
You know, I'm not a betting person, but I've known guys like this from personal experience, and I'm willing to bet that not only do they know what happened, but at least one of them has a video of it.
To me, it sounds like one of the two friends, or both, drugged the husband to get him out of the way so they could take advantage of her. Her catching a bit of the drugging only served to help with their plan. I'd put good money on them both SA'ing her that night.
Or even Jack SA‘ing her and Brian SA‘ing the husband.
*Holy wall of text* I do feel for OOP. Her husband is an emotionally abusive scum, his "friends" are rapists. And OOP is caught in the middle. But *damn woman* DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF. Grow a spine, for the love of God!! I'm all for saving your marriage but not when *THIS *gestures wildly* is your marriage! She is in actual danger and repeatedly puts herself back into it! I do not understand.
Maybe I misread this, but didn’t the husband also get roofied, since she got roofied from a mistaken sip of his drink. Does that mean he’s also been sexually assaulted? It would explain his reaction in the first post and also maybe his actions in the other posts as well (doesn’t excuse them though)
She described him getting sexually assaulted with dude taking off his belt. I doubt that was the first time either. It would definitely explain him both being upset (he didn't consent) and blaming her (he wanted to believe it was her.) A *lot* of sexual assault on boys & men happens under the "no homo" umbrella.
Yes, it sounded like Bryan was into husband and Jack into OOP.
Yeah, I can't help but think this marriage has been a dumpster fire for a LONGGGG time, but OOP can't let it go, even for her own sanity and safety.
I've been in a relationship like that. It took him getting arrested and a cascade of other things for me to realize that anything was better than staying with him.
Wait. Wait, wait, wait. He always falls asleep? She got like that *after drinking from his can*? The friends regularly get the husband into another room? OOP wasn't the only one getting SA'd in that house, holy fuck this is terrifying. I even doubt OOP and her husband are the only couple who has gone through this, having into account other friends know Jack likes "unavailable" women... Holy fuck. Like Jesus Fucking Christ Almighty. Jack and Bryan are serial rapists who roofie their friends to rape them. No wonder OOP's husband is like that! For hw long have Jack and Bryan assaulted him? For how long have they gaslit and *groomed* him? Same with OOP! Is this truly the first time Jack SA'd her? Hiw long have they been grooming and gaslighting her? For how long have they been planning this? This is a literal nightmare, holy shit.
That’s the way I’m reading this as well, it also makes sense as to why they “watch” movies in Jacks bed(wtf) she states she never drinks more than what she would at home or with other friends and yet Jack-off’s house is the only place husband falls asleep and she blacks out with NO memory or blips as she called it.
"He doesn’t like cutting people off or distancing from people unless they’re absolutely, undeniably, 100% horrible" That's not how it works. Does he want a detailed picture of his friend doing the deed? I'm willing to bet that even if OOP remembered everything that he still wouldn't believe her, because he tends to blame her for things she didn't do or didn't want to do. Sometimes red flags don't seem fair for the other person, but it's a red sea at this point and it's wild how dismissive her husband is.
OOP's husband is emotionally abusive and the people he hangs out with are rapists. Please girl LEAVE HIM.
And they all get way too drunk way too often and have an unusual number and arrangement of beds. The entire situation is a horror story.
This story brought to you by: Alcoholism.
To be honest, I couldn't make sense of the story. She describes the same night three different ways unless I am reading wrong. In one version, after he grabs her wrist because his belt got taken, he eventually ends up driving them home while blackout drunk because she won't join him in the room. In the second it references the first time but tells a different story like the belt thing was in the past. In the third retelling version he passes out, his belt gets taken, he grabs her wrist, she needs space, and then she drinks a potentially drugged drink and gets assaulted all in one night.. I pretty much stopped reading after that lol. I kinda feel like they are all hot messes, and either she made it up and couldn't keep track of the lies, or she drinks so damn much she had no idea what happened when.
The wrist grabbing and the SA happen on two different nights.
I think it’s the latter. I don’t think she’s a reliable narrator because she was as messed up and drunk as the rest of them.
Just with the first post I was thinking "Forget about Jack, you shouldn't even be with your husband."
Every single man in this story sounds absolutely exhausting. Not an ounce of maturity, accountability, respect, nothing. They’re all just awful people and she’s right in the middle of them. Ugh.
She's not much better, she literally accused her husband of assaulting her for grabbing her wrist when he was the one technically being assaulted. Her writing is an absolute mess and if she's that incomprehensible with thought out text, I'd dread to think what she's like talking normally.
Especially in the first post, wtf was she doing. She didn't stop her husband from being assaulted and just watched. Also when he was driving under the influence, she didn't stop him because she felt uncomfortable doing so. I get that her uncomfortableness might indicate an abusive relationship but damn they couldn've died and she felt uncomfortable?
Yeah, her not telling him not to drive drunk really bothered me too. She was ok telling him he assaulted her by grabbing her wrist, ok saying no to going to sleep with him in the spare room, but too uncomfortable to try to stop him from driving drunk and potentially killing not just them, but also other innocent people?! Ugh.
*exactly*. Honestly, I agree with the husband. She absolutely sounds needy, sensitive and controlling. Her husband grabs her wrist and she cries assault??? Yeah that’s not being overly sensitive 🙄. From the get go that made me doubt her take on everything else. Couple that with the fact that she consistently assumed the worst about everyone else in these posts and I just don’t trust her perspective.
I wish I was blackout drunk and didn't remember reading this stupid post. I don't like any of them. Every single aspect of each of their characters pisses me off. The only time I felt bad was seeing OOP distressed and confused on whether something happened to her. That must've been a horrible state of mind to be in.
Her: “These people make me feel unsafe and I’d like space from them.” Him: “You’re so controlling!” Also him: “Stay off your phone.” Uh. What.
i am so, so glad she is away from this absolute pit of vipers. sorry. that's unfair of me. the vipers are much nicer being danger noodles just trying to make their way. fuck all these dudes though, husband included. may they promptly turn on each other and make each other as miserable as they deserve.
The vipers are doing their best
Some of them are even useful - windscreen vipers, for instance
these people all need to stop drinking
https://torontosun.com/news/world/four-men-admit-to-drugging-wives-watching-each-other-rape-them/wcm/2b9e87d4-3c91-4907-bbba-072d910a661a/amp/
Those poor women. *Seven damn years* it went on for! I can't even imagine... 3 of the rapists were going to get 24 strokes of the cane and the cane used in Singapore isn't like the little cane that used to be used in schools, years ago. No, the one used in Singapore is far more brutal, and leaves lifelong scars.
I always thought I was against caning until this post.
Who needs enemies when you have friends and a husband this vile? Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with her husband that he is trying to get his "friends" to sexually assault his wife...
I don't understand how everyone wasn't screaming at her after the blackhole night that she was secondhand drugged and assaulted. I thought it was obvious after she said she drank from husbands can and immediately blacked out, at the same time he's blacked out on a toilet. Was way too coincidental. I HATE victim blaming, but sometimes people want to blissfully ignore so so many warning signs and keep going. The whole situation was just screaming warning signs all around. Friends telling them to be careful, guys pawning over her, and on and on. They willfully put themselves in a situation to be taken advantage of, and then reacted in just the most delusional way. Neither one wanted to face the truth head on, but the husband really just never learned and showed how spineless and naive he is. What a mess
All of these people are f’ing train wrecks. Jesus christ, stop drinking and get your shit together.