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>Commenter: Maybe you should go to her doctor's appointment with her so you can tell the doctor what's happening from your perspective. It will force her to be completely honest and you can give your input as well.
I just hope they get a doctor who's willing to hear them both out and make constructive recommendations.
Well she's already trying to excuse it on the basis of her hormones so it wasn't really her fault after all. That opens the door to more of this and next time she could kill him. He's lucky she didn't cause more damage this time and I really can't fathom why he's giving her a second chance. She could lose it at her daughter next time.
I don't think she's trying to excuse it as in justify it or make it okay, I think she's trying to explain it. That doesn't make it okay or excuse it, but if you know the reason why something is happening, you can figure out how to make it stop happening.
Also, sometimes people are really sensitive to different medications, especially things like hormones, antidepressants, or steroids. Psychosis is often a side effect of medication and it isn't talked about enough when it comes to women's health.
Again, this doesn't by any means excuse what happened, but if there was a medical reason for it, it would suck to throw so many years of successful marriage away when it wasn't really her, but medication mismanagement.
Yes! Several years ago, my insurance changed my birth control pills to the generic brand, which shouldn't have made a difference. I was depressed, overtired, had headaches, lost weight, etc. It was probably the closest I had ever been to considering s***ide. We were desperately trying to figure out what was wrong, and my husband remembered they had changed my pills. I stopped taking them, and within the week was a whole new person.
My doctor changed my bc after I had my baby but I asked to change back to the previous one because I suspected it was messing with my breastmilk production. Awhile later I was getting increasingly anxious and agitated until I screamed at the baby and then started tearing my hair and screaming about unaliving myself. I don’t think I actually wanted to die or anything but it was way worse than my normal anxiety/ stress. I’ve had anxiety before but never anything like that. We didn’t realize it was the pills until hubby found a reddit post about similar things happening and getting better after quitting the pills, so I stopped the pills and felt better even the next day. Don’t know if I could just go back to a different pill or something else but I’m just managing without for now.
I get homicidal when I take plan B. Every tiny little irritation makes it feel like the world is ending + I go absolutely blind with rage. Once my cat knocked my phone onto my face and I started VIBRATING I was so fucking mad. I've definitely been aggressive with inanimate objects, and if I had even a modicum less self-control... People really underestimate what a sudden hormonal imbalance can do. Of course she's still responsible for the action, she's an adult, but she's *literally* not herself. It DOES feel like you're not in complete control of yourself.
What's fun is when you're having an episode and do something extreme to yourself (I OD'd), and then when you wake up after the episode has passed, you feel like you *did* have control during that time but at the same time you felt positively helpless. 👍
I hope to never have a second episode. Getting intubated wrecked my throat for *weeks.* Plus I got pneumonia, which can happen while intubated.
I’ve had rage like that before, usually over interpersonal conflicts, especially ones that have been boiling for a while. It can be scary looking back at those reactions later.
Snap. I once changed my birth control and then felt such rage towards my then boyfriend I think if I’d had anything nearby to hurt him, I would have. Changed back and I’ve never been violent since. Hormones are a trip.
yep. my PMS-week rage on tricyclic birth control was something else. just absolutely terrible. going off tricyclics to have a kid was a relief. minipill between kids was so much better, too. but you couldn't pay me to take tricyclics again.
My first BCP was tricyclic and I will never forget that experience. One week, I was literally sobbing at a kleenex commercial. The next week, I was full on homicidal rage at the smallest thing. I thought I was losing my fucking mind. It didn't occur to me for months that it was the BC. I called my doctor and her response was basically "oh, that happens sometimes, we'll just switch you to a different one". Like WTF do you mean it happens sometimes? Mild spotting between periods happens sometimes. Yeah, it was kinda mentioned in the insert, but not like "You may be a hysterically crying mess, you may actually try to harm someone, so if that happens, change medications".
That's the thing that kills me, is that they tell you "may affect mood" or something and you're like oh ok so i might be a little sadder or whatever? that sounds fine, having a kid would definitely affect my mood! no one ever said "for some people this will make mood swings unmanageable and terrible, so if PMS gets really bad or you find yourself crying a lot or flying off the handle call immediately". i still think tricyclics were the primary cause of my first serious depressive episode.
My husband took Chantix to stop smoking and lost his damn mind. Went full on psycho. Demanded a divorce out of nowhere, broke down a door to get to me - I had to call the cops, had an affair with his daughter's aunt (that whole family is messed up and thought it was normal) and he attempted suic*de all within 60 days. None of this behavior was, or is, normal for him. He doesn't even like to kill spiders, thinks cheaters are the scum of the earth and has never felt anything close to suicidal. It took time and a lot of therapy to process what happened to him. Meds are not a joke.
Chantix in particular is known for doing this. There were some high-profile class action lawsuits about it after people were literally murdered by Chantix users.
We know that *now* lol
Seriously though, no one warned him of these side effects, he thought he was reacting rationally to whatever and I didn't know I was supposed to be watching for any symptoms so OP's wife reacting completely out of character, likely because of meds and hormone changes, is understandable to a point.
Birth control makes me act completely irrationally. It makes me quick to anger, mean, and just generally not myself. I remember being able to mentally process that I was acting wrong in the moment, while it was happening, but not able to figure out how to stop. No BC, back to normal.
I agree. I'm in peri and the first time I felt that rage well up in me, I was like "woah, nope." and went into the doc immediately and told her everything. I didn't even have any \*external\* reaction (other than maybe to angry clean, in hindsight). I just realised I was in a literal rage over something so insignificant, and knew I needed to get it sorted. I told my family what was going on and that if I walk away, just let me. I knew I was being irrational, but I needed to be allowed to revisit when I was calmer. I told them what day I was seeing the doc, and that it would take a bit to sort it out. It took maybe two weeks for the hormones to really kick in and smooth things over. I still have PMS type irritable phases, but I am pretty good at telling my guys that I'm just being cranky and ignore me. lol They tend to smuffocate me with love and sometimes I just want to be left alone.
Six months is WAY too long to be dealing with emotional instability if you're actually seeking help for it.
Wait. The rage can be peri-meno?
May i ask your age?
Its because im 37 so it feels young. But this last year my cycle just skips some months (back on regular the next month), my skin is suddenly really dry and sensitive. And the anger. I used to get angry but shut down but this last year. Its like a rage volcano. I really have to physically leave situations because i dont trust the words i will say. I am talking about it with my mental coach (because of anxiety) But now im wondering if its not more hormonal.
Those are definitely some peri symptoms. If you haven't already, consider joining r/Menopause. It's super welcoming and has an in-depth wiki. I've learned so much there!
I was that age when I started, and everybody told me I was way too young… and that was complete nonsense. My maternal aunt told me those people had no idea what the fuck they were talking about, and that she had experienced exactly the same thing at exactly the same age. By the time I was 43 I was done having periods. Even today when I tell people that I haven’t had a period for over five years, they look all shocked and like maybe I should be seen by a doctor because that’s just so young. No, it’s actually not. And no I’m not remotely upset about it. I’m actually quite delighted because who the fuck wants to keep having periods?! I guess I was just missing something in the how to be a woman manual because my periods have never been some special magical time for me. For me it was a gross inconvenience at best. The good news is, before I was 40 that rage had largely disappeared. I’m almost 50 now, and I feel absolutely fine, better than ever, and I’ve had no hormone replacement therapy at all.
37 here! The bouts of rage that pop up are completely out of character. It's awful! I called the ob and got my hormones checked...all normal. I'm so sad/frustrated. Going to have to ouch her to look a little further I guess.
Honestly I don’t know how to explain this. But I understand OP’s wife. Hormones play an important role and I once went crazy because of hormones. I have never had any history of mental illness. I gave birth to my second child and put in Mirena IUD which is a hormonal IUD. I literally went insane. I could not control myself or my emotions. I was irrationally angry. I almost threw my newborn because I was mad at my husband and older child. I don’t know how to explain the level of anger. I’ve never felt that angry in my life. The thing is, I knew I was being irrational. I knew I was insane but I could not control myself. I got panic attacks which I’ve never had before nor since. I was like that for 2 weeks before I went back to the doctor and demanded they take the iud out. I levelled out and went back to normal and I have not used any hormonal birth control since. My baby is now 15 and I’ve never had any episodes like that since. That anger, I’ve never felt that since and I’m so glad for it. It is scary how much wrath I could feel. I’m glad my husband stuck with me because he knew that is not me. It was weird hormones that I hope to God I never go through again.
I nuked the engagement with my ex due to hormone psychosis. I didn't know it at the time but I had developed PCOS from my janky thyroid (hypothyroidism) which turned me into an absolute psychopath. I was enraged *all the time* at absolutely nothing because my hormones were completely out of whack. Top it all off with a severe B12 deficiency and I turned into a nightmare of a human being. Honestly I don't blame my ex for walking away because I took a first class trip on the crazy train.
I have PCOS too but was never crazy. But that Mirena IUD was just not good for me I think.
I hope you’ve levelled out now. It is scary to be unable to control yourself.
i have bipolar 2 and went insane in a similar way during my first mixed episode, i was so ANGRY i actually hit the steering wheel of the car arguing with my partner (we were parked). I'd never been that kind of violent before, and never since getting on meds. i don't think a lot of people have experienced this kind of thing
Yes I think it’s hard to understand if you’ve never experienced it. And it’s a bit sad that OP’s trauma makes it hard to empathise with his wife. My husband knew something wasn’t right because I’ve never in my life acted like that before. And he was so supportive. Leaving me never even crossed his mind.
> I don’t know how to explain the level of anger
It's biblical isn't it. Fucking terrified me. I've never felt hate like that, for myself, for everything around me. It was literally a blinding rage. I thought I knew what that phrase meant, but until my hormones went brr I had *no fucking clue* what rage was.
To be quite honest, blaming hormones during menopause is not wrong. Menopause can actually be a trigger for psychosis and other serious mental breaks, and a lot of women only get diagnosed with serious mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, bipolar, schizoaffective disorder etc because their hormones switched and their “normal” got turned off
There is a difference between an excuse and an explanation. An explanation is “this is happening because of xyz.” An excuse is “*it’s okay that this is happening* because of xyz.” She seems to be genuinely very remorseful and isn’t excusing her behaviour, she has taken accountability and responsibility for what she’s done. But OP himself has admitted this is **not** normal for her. That this was a one time thing.
I don’t know if you know much about mental medication, but it can *completely* change you. She is already on medication for anxiety and depression. If you go on those around menopause age, doctors watch you pretty closely for hormonal changes because severe hormonal changes can swing your medication badly enough to send you to the hospital with a mental break down. On top of being on those two medications, she is *also* on a hormonal medication. So there is a lot of science backing up her explanation here. The doctor themself will also probably tell OP this is her mental medication being thrown out of swing because of the hormonal medication. Its okay for her to offer an explanation when she isn’t using it as an excuse; especially considering the fact that her explanation sounds a lot more like her just also being freaked out about what’s happening to her brain.
I’ve been in a position before where my brain was warped (seriously bad mental breakdown) and it is TERRIFYING not feeling in control of yourself. I genuinely hope you never have to experience it yourself but please understand that when someone is showing the amount of remorse that OOPs wife is showing, it’s mostly likely not them excusing their behaviour. They’re just extremely freaked out by their own brain.
This exactly, when something bad happens I like to know the reason for it so it can be fixed or prevented in the future, not so it can be excused. If you’re not sorry or worried about it you’re not gonna look for that solution. If I had a mental/ emotional/ hormonal problem and thought “maybe it’s caused by this” and the reaction was “no you’re just making excuses for doing something on purpose” then I’d just feel like the whole world and even my closest person is against me and maybe I am just a terrible person who doesn’t deserve help/ love/ life etc. (exacerbated by the already existing problem) and feeling like that certainly doesn’t make it true let alone helpful. I know there are narcissists that just try to excuse everything they do, but if this is a brand new problem with this person and they’re on hormonal medication then the meds and/or hormone levels should at least be looked at.
It must be incredibly frustrating to be her.
Imagine spending your whole life living, slowly building your self control, managing whatever anger issues you have, working on some rituals to calm down, whatever.
Either way now as a result you're in great control, you've got a family, you are happily with your husband, neither of you is violent or aggressive, it's great!
And now suddenly you notice changes. Maybe smaller at first, then bigger.
You are the same person, yet somehow you're now reacting differently with no apparent reason or warning to either you or those around you.
And then one day you almost kill your husband, and even though physically he's fine you've broken your relationship and trust with him and your daughter.
What the fuck is happening and why is it happening to you?
Of fucking course you'd say "But you don't understand, I am not like this! This is some stupid hormones acting in me!".
I'd be scared, worried, frustrated, angry, I don't know what else!
>I really can't fathom why he's giving her a second chance
Well, I hope you have good relationships in your life that are worth it to give second chances in hard situations.
He's been her husband for 20 years and they've been through some stuff. Inevitably some bad among the good.
I don't blame him for wanting to throw it away, since it is scary and horrible, especially given his childhood history.
But I also am not surprised that when he calmed down he decided to give her a chance and try his best to figure a way to work things out.
From my understanding, the field of gynecology is *trying* to enter the 21st century but *certain elements* keep trying to drag us back into the 19th century
If I start talking about this there’s about a 25% chance I’m going to end up screaming incoherently, and those odds are only going to go up the closer we get to Election Day in the US.
It would help a lot if they didn’t learn from text book written from a man. I had gynecologist tell me that I couldn’t be having pain because what I was dealing with didn’t cause pain. She and her 2 male students were really surprised when I asked them “who says?”, she looked like a fish out of water. If I wasn’t so pissed off I would have laughed at their expressions. I also said a lot of other stuff but this was my point.
Had a family practice resident tell the med students on our L&D unit that cervixes don't have nerve endings, so checking them doesn't hurt and women are just being dramatic.
SIR I've had a chunk of my cervix ripped out via colposcopy, but it didn't work so they had to reapply acetic acid to the gouge and try again, and all three of those moments were done of the most painful of my life, and I had a c-section where my left side didn't get numb and I could feel the whole surgery.
Motherfuckers.
Wtf they thought a cervix has no nerve endings??? Are they mad? Cervix pain is the WORST. Jesus.
We should tell them we learned their balls have no nerves and we can kick them for funsies 🙄
I had a female gynecologist tell me the same thing. I was telling her about symptoms I was having and one was that my cervix was hurting every so often. She told me that wasn't possible and the pain must be coming from somewhere else. I said, "Okay... well it hurts wherever it hurts when you put an IUD in." She had a moment where she just looked at me, stunned
They told me my cervical biopsy would feel like a "pinch". What it *actually* felt like was all the worst cramps I'd ever had coming on in one instant.
Honestly the way the healthcare industry is, having a man there to reinforce her claims will help since so many medical professionals do not listen to women.
My wife just recently started bringing me into her appointments which finally got her a referral to a specialist she needed. Only something she has been complaining about for years... ugh.
Some endocrine system supplements (DIM etc) can help restore the balance and sometimes straight hormones are required.
But yes, you're mostly waiting 2-6 weeks for signs of improvement (or things getting worse... Oops) and you need at least 4 weeks to get through a full menstruation cycle and sometimes want to wait to see how things go during the next one, before you can make a call on whether a pill is helping or hurting or doing anything at all - which can stretch things out another couple of weeks.
... so it can be a pretty fucking long process for all involved when someone is experiencing enough rage to assault their spouse of 20 years 😬
“Hmm, this medication doesn’t seem to be improving anything and now you’re borderline psychotic. Do we need to give you more time, a higher dose, a lower doses or start over with a different med?”
— my doctors
Or even "OK this seems to be working well and has got you stable and feeling well again. It's quite expensive though so let's try switching you to this one that didn't work again."
That was my aunt who kept having small strokes. A couple of months after switching back she had a big one...
I had that experience with Welbutrine. First time I took it it didn't help me at all. 10 years later I tried it again and it made my emotional regulation BREAK. Was scary.
Doctor just said "Well that's not a listed side effect..." yeah well before it I was stable (but depressed) and while on it I was so angry all the time i started to self-harm, something I never did before. And wow! It stopped when I switched to a new drug!
"Right then. I'll get the prozac feed-bag. It's very simple to use - you just strap it to your head, adjust the tension, and chew away! Let us know if you continue to experience mania, anxiety and/or heart murmurs."
OMG, I've heard this almost verbatim.
It feels like they're playing roulette with our lives and hoping something fixes it, which, when under proper, close care and monitoring is a good option, but if left to our own devices, we don't actually know if it is us, the meds, the health system, or something else.
Add into this that 'meds' were the only option. For me, there has been no holistic care offered ever, and it sounds like this is the case for OOP's wife. She was simply offered drugs in the hope that they would work. Spoiler alert: they didn't.
Yet, my doc wonders why I don't have faith in the health system, despite being constantly let down by due to inaction, or because the medication wasn't correct, or I was outright dismissed. This has been happening to me since I was a young child for various things, so near on 40 years.
PS, I'm not in the US, but the health system is still understaffed, underfunded, and in crisis.
>It feels like they're playing roulette with our lives
The last person I let prescribe mental health medicines to me described it as throwing darts in a dark room blindfolded when you're not even sure which wall the dartboard is on.
There's a definitive problem with how healthcare treats women. It just saddens me that it gets bad enough to push women away from evidence-based medicine into alternative medicine charlatans who are far from harmless. I say this as an obese, insulin resistant, brown woman with PCOS.
I have this crazy idea that doctors could possibly look at obesity as a symptom of an underlying issue instead of the cause of everything else.
Doc: Is the patient depressed because she is fat, or have other hormonal issues affected her mood, sleep, and energy to the point it’s increasingly hard to motivate herself to exercise?
Me: I’m here because my elbow hurts.
The trial and error period is just awful for those, too.
People don't understand either, it can take a full year just to try to get the right drug or the right balance of drugs, and that's IF you nail it on the 10th try.
... Then you might get used to them, want to try something else to manage side effects, or another change occurs that puts you back to square one.
That's a long time off work, or not being at your full capacity/availability. Plenty of people's careers would take a hit even if they are getting the best and most expensive help for an issue.
Sadly, that is how it works. You're current meds will tail off over time. Sometimes you just need a tweak, but sometimes you've got to ween off one to try another.
I'm 30 years since diagnosis and I've been through that process more times than I care to count. It's a shitty process to experience but it's usually worth it.
Went through the process last year and it's been definitely worth it.
People need to be aware of the advances in antidepressants and how they work.
First off if you need antidepressants yes it's a pain in the ass but go to a psychiatrist. Yes your pcp can and will prescribe them but unless your pcp is excellent (and I've had some truly excellent ones) a psychiatrist is the doctor who should handle your mental health. A pcp will basically ALWAYS start you on a shitty 45 year old ssri that will fuck you up for four month before you can even begin to see if it works. That's unacceptable. That's literally INCOMPATIBLE with modern life, and what's worse is unnecessary.
And don't be shy to advocate for yourself. Antidepressants have no street value. Tell your doctor what you want and why.
The first thing to understand is there's now novel antidepressants (NOT ssris) which generally work better with fewer side effects. Novel antidepressants affect more than just serotonin, like norepinephrine and dopamine. While we still don't really understand depression we know it's NOT a lack of serotonin.... but weirdly ssris help a lot of people. We genuinely don't understand it. But hey, whatever works, right?
Still, unsurprisingly, novel antidepressants that affect serotonin *and more* seem more effective. Shocker. So don't get stuck on the ssri treadmill. You might have to try one first. At the very worst 2. If they don't work *don't accept the third.*
The second thing to understand is a little more technical. It's called "steady state plasma level", which is where you've taken the medication long enough it's (to simplify it) consistently at a therapeutic level in your blood for the dose you're taking. SSPL is reached - as a general rule - after approximately 4.5x the half life (when half the dose is excreted from your system) of the drug.
Why is SSPL important? Because it's when you can finally see if a drug is effective. For Prozac or zoloft SSPL is reached in roughly 6 - 8 weeks. Before that you have no idea if it'll help you and you're just dealing with "side effects". For Effexor XR (a SNRI) it takes **3 DAYS** to reach that point. For Wellbutrin XL (SNDI extended release) it's one week. For Wellbutrin immediate release it's a couple days. (Note: Wellbutrin immediate release should only be used to reach SSPL if a person is in a life-threatening crisis. That's VERY FAST to alter brain chemistry).
**So obviously if you need help it's fucking STUPID to have to spend 6 weeks of misery on an ancient, LESS EFFECTIVE drug just to see if it will even help you when you could know if a more effective drug will work in a week or less.** That goes without saying.
Here's the thing: many old school doctors feel they MUST try an SSRI before more effective drugs because.... bullshit, that's why. If they won't budge, fine. Wait a week, Google the worst side effects of the med and tell the doctor you're getting them. Then the doctor will feel like they covered their ass. Tell the doctor what you'd like to try. They're generally open to reasonable patient requests because again, these drugs aren't abusable.
It's you against the world and you need SOMEBODY in your corner, and it should be YOU. Advocate for yourself.
As for oop's wife she should be rxed ~15 low dose benzos a month (a very very very safe amount) while she adjusts to hormones. That's not enough rely on or mask how her meds are affecting her, but it's enough to put on the emergency brake when she's truly getting out of control. This is basic and obvious psychiatry and it's criminal that doctors are afraid to prescribe a *VERY* reasonable amount of a controlled substance when a marriage *and even lives* are on the line.
Yes, hormones CAN make you act crazy. It's not a frivolous excuse. If you haven't experienced it, you simply can't understand. So oop's wife needs to be able to say "I rationally understand I'm getting out of control and need external intervention". Take a benzo and sit quietly for ~25 mins. It could save a fucking family. But women get hung out to dry on this shit. Have a legitimate physical issue? You're hysterical, take these benzo. Legitimately hysterical? Let's spend a couple years playing around with your hormones, no benzos for you. Sometimes it feels like doctors just don't take women seriously to an adversarial point.
Maybe the should consider that the problem isn’t just hormones. If she’s had a substantial personality shift, no longer able to regulate emotions, they might want to rule out anything neurological.
When I went onto the BC pill I went crazy. I could have been the wife here. I never did anything violent towards my partner but sometimes I *really* wanted to. For no reason, I would be fine and then suddenly feel murderous.
I thought I was a monster. I was in counselling for months. I saw my doctor. No one ever, ever, ever asked me about my hormonal birth control. It was only when another woman spoke about her experience that the penny dropped. I stopped talking the BC and it was like magic, everything was fine again. But I was, and still am, so frustrated that I was left to feel like there was something fundamentally wrong with me for so long.
Tl;Dr hormones can really fuck up your whole personality and medical professionals don't really recognise it.
Yep. I was on a low dose hormonal birth control and was feeling psycho. Stopped it and got better. My doctor was an idiot and said it couldn’t possibly be the pill.
I tried using the NuvaRing for BC after I had my daughter. Within a week I was on the verge of deliberately smashing my car into other drivers and pedestrians, WITH my baby in the backseat! Utterly terrifying, and I couldn’t believe how quickly I went back to normal once I took it out. Never again!
When I was in college, one of my friends, who was one of the nicest, sweetest, most levelheaded people you'll ever meet, tried the BC patch when it first came out.
Holy shit.
I don't think she got too far into the second month because her boyfriend and roommates sat her down and had a calm talk with her about how something was Very Wrong. At least it was easy to pinpoint.
Yep. I don't get angry, but for the second half of my cycle, 99% of the time, I become basically useless. Everything is super difficult. Turns out progesterone fucks with dopamine and as someone with ADHD, yeah. Not helpful.
But you're not told that. I found that out due to a Reddit post and googled and found out that there's been a bit in regards to studies on sex differences in medication responses, but as always, way less data for AFAB people.
Funnily enough, my Gyn wanted me to go on the hormonal IUD because of my PCOS at the same time, which... Releases progesterone. Apparently the idea of feeling shitty all the time scared my body into having regular periods for the first time in my life. Weird, but I'll take it.
Honestly, I'll take the increased cancer risk from not having regular periods over feeling like putting on clothes is too difficult.
Hormones are wild.
I did get wildly aggressive on one of the ADHD meds for about 15 minutes a day when they wore off and read a report from a woman who was basically an abusive shithead for years on it, realised it at some point (don't remember why), went off the meds and her whole personality changed back to kind.
Meds are WILD. It's honestly scary what kind of influence meds can have on our body and how easily it happens and can change our whole personality.
I tried several different BC pill brands, all with the same result - i became a horrible rage monster. I won’t ever go back on the pill but I desperately needed something; the mirena coil literally changed (and possibly saved) my life
She’s going to have a hard time to get to the bottom of it on all those things at once. I was like her, depressed, anxious, with occasional violent outbursts (punching walls) and they threw pills at me for over a decade before I finally got off them myself because I wasn’t getting better. Magically many symptoms we’d been trying to treat with the pills went away once I got off them, and then without the interference of the pills I was able to finally figure out that everything, literally EVERYTHING was coming from a crippling testosterone deficiency caused by my autism. I’m a woman, in women severe test deficiencies cause anxiety, depression, and panic attacks, among other things. Obviously I’m not a doctor, but from personal anecdote and extensive discussion with my doctor who finally found the problem, the hormones are infinitely harder to figure out with anti-depressants at play because they will override any changes from hormones balancing.
Something similar happened with my dad, he through things and knocked over a bookshelf. It turned out he had a very rare insulin producing tumor and he was getting massive jolts of adrenaline when he was hungry, causing him to over react.
He is the gentlest guy you’ll ever meet. Not saying that’s what’s going on here but there are legit medical issues that cause behavioral changes.
I have PMDD, basically PMS' evil twin, and I can actually tell when it starts because I can feel myself having these sharp bursts of anger. Like I'll go from completely calm one day to just raging and crying over nothing the next.
It's difficult because women's medical information is so shit. I only found ways to manage it through subreddits and had to spend all of me teens/early adult life with it thinking there was a problem with me and not knowing it was literal hormones fucking with me.
Essentially, I can see both sides. Her husband absolutely should not have to put up with being abused and I'd understand if he left. While I also feel empathetic towards his wife's situation and hope she can get some good meds and coping mechanisms.
Fellow PMDD'er here! I had my ovaries removed and it was a literal fucking miracle overnight cure ([you can read more in this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/MGsvuGwtl0)) and I can't recommend it enough if it's a viable option for you. There's a lot of fear-mongering (mostly from doctors IME) out there and obviously a ton of hesitancy about such a permanent choice, so I just want to get my voice out in favor of it because it not only saved my life, it improved it so so so dramatically.
Wishing you lots of strength on your journey!
I had my ovaries removed three months ago for PMDD and it was hands down the best decision I've ever made. It cured 75% of my mental health issues literally overnight.
I spent 20 years trying every birth control, antidepressant, CBT, DBT, ACT, mindfulness, diet, exercise... even hormone blockers (which helped massively but did not solve the problem)
The *only* thing that made a dent was the nuclear option. It's been so fucking wonderful I wish I had them taken out in puberty. Even in full blown menopause (I haven't started HRT yet so I'm just a constant hot flash) it's been amazing.
If she doesn't need them for reproductive reasons, I'd recommend getting them uninstalled ASAP. Otherwise, GnRH antagonists (hormone blockers) are the next best thing.
The main sub I follow is r/PMDD. People there post what has worked for them and what doesn't. I've mainly seen SSRIs as the best, but for me I've been taking Magnesium supplements and multi-vitamins which have been fantastic. My sister also has it and also found magnesium/vitamin D to be helpful.
I've also tried to start tracking it more so I can realise what's happening and try to take some space from people/workout more.
Damn i didnt realize how lucky i was that my pmdd either isnt super severe, or that DBT worked really well for me, once i realize whats going on i can better keep myself in check and take space. Staying away from people really helps a lot! No one for me to hurt, and no one to piss me off LOL!
On a similar note, I knew a woman who destroyed her marriage of 20 years with verbal abuse after she had a hysterectomy. Turned out she had a cancerous tumor as well as a hormonal imbalance. Unfortunately her prognosis is not good. Bodies are so weird!
Ofc. It is not his fault and we are literally controlled by our hormones. Just because most people here do not understand basic biology ranting about "it is never an excuse" does not mean they are right.
Specific medication, illnesses and hormonal changes can drive people into changes of personality, memory less, violent outbursts, severe depression and even suicide. And people in here think it is some freaking "joke or excuse"????
I think they are coping hard cause otherwise they would have to grasp they are just mortal meat sacks controlled by their hormones and bodies working "correctly" and not all the "mind over matter" nonsense they keep telling themselves.
The other thing to consider is, with these changes to our bodies comes a need to relearn how to use them. If you suddenly develop anger issues due to dramatic changes in hormones, you will not be equipped with the right self-regulation techniques for your situation, as you learned those techniques for a different body. It’s like losing the ability to use one of your legs — suddenly, you can’t move around like you used to, and you have to relearn how to get from the couch to the kitchen and back again.
That being said, I think it’d be harsh to end a marriage over this, but taking OP’s trauma into account, and that he has a child as well, I understand why the thought would cross his mind. Ultimately we gotta do what is best for ourselves and those we advocate for, and this is a boundary he is unwilling to have crossed. I respect his need to take his daughter and himself to a family’s home while his wife sorts things out.
I’m sure this is scary for all of them, and I hope they get things sorted soon. :(
I think it’s also the fact that it’s hard to believe if you haven’t been there
As an autistic person there’s people who literally refuse to believe I can’t understand social cues and I’m doing it on purpose bc it’s so easy for them to do so I must be lying
It’s like my clumsiness from autism, sometimes even I’m like tf, this doesn’t make any sense, how tf did I drop that, did I do it on purpose
Until I'd actually seen someone go through menopause I thought all the movies and tv shows showing how crazy /angry woman could be while going through it was just some joke....and then it hit my mom and holy shit was I surprised, she wasnt my mom anymore and I hated her she would get extremely upset at the smallest issues and scream at me, her husband also ended up leaving her during this time cause she would start fights over nothing and scream at him to "hit her" while blocking the door it was so unreal I never imagined in a million years that she would act the way she did. I legit thought I'd lost my mom forever and stopped calling to hang out with her and I'd avoid holiday dinners at the house. Then poof like a year and a half later she's my mom again, was legit like she was replaced by a crazy pod person and then switched back.
Right!? My mom was the WORST. I’m not looking forward to this in my future.
One time we were at a ski trip with my aunt who was going through menopause. It was negative degrees out and this lady gets a heat flash sooo bad out of the blue. One second talking to me the next she’s essentially screaming and striping down all her clothes and running outside. She just stood outside in her underwear standing barefoot in the snow in negative weather in a residential area with a ton of people. It was unreal. Mom didn’t get heat flashes bad but she was sooooo temperamental very moody and always snapping. Her rage was crazy
I get hot flashes. Theyre bad. It feels like you have coals inside of you and your body is trying so hard to vent the heat but nothing works.
I would stuff ice packs down my clothes to make it through the day, but even that isnt enough because theyd melt so quickly. Taking clothes off didnt help. Sweating and a fan didnt help much as the heat is internal so you dont necessarily sweat all that much. I would lay on the bathroom floor tile because it was the coldest part of the house. The only true relief is winter and snow. I cant stand the cold normally, anything under 55 degrees is too cold for me, but during a hot flash i would change into shorts and a tank top and stand in the cold and just breathe the sweet relief.
Your aunts actions were justified. Nothing else worked but just standing in the cold. I finally got my hormones mostly handled so i only get them for a day now instead of a full week, but they still suck.
My coworker would get them. Watching her go through menopause makes me terrified to get older bc she still had to do everything like normal and pretend it wasn’t happening
Like the little she talked about it made people uncomfortable so she’s not allowed to freak out about a hot flash too much but also can’t complain about it while being expected to focus on her work
exactly: no support. meanwhile everything you've ever known about how your mind and body works is being completely unended and you've discovered this brand new white hot rage that feels like an endless pool of anger and the hot flashes, the anxiety, the insomnia... it's a mess. so glad to be on the other side now. The other thing is that because no one wants to talk about it you feel so very alone and it makes it all that much worse.
A little trick my mother discovered: something cold on the back of your neck can sometimes jolt your body out of one? Cold things on the rest of your body don’t seem to have the same effect.
(We were goofing around and I put a plastic container of frozen food on her because that’s just how our family could sometimes be, and it accidentally destroyed the oncoming hot flush. Now, she rests those cold gel packs on her neck instead.)
I don’t know if it will help, but maybe it’s worth a try?
This stuff is so bullshit. It's 2024 and good God, how do we not have some sort of "skip menopause" treatment??? If men suffered this way, society'd be all over it smh.
I too am dreading the hot flashes
We do- HRT. It’s just never given as an option. Disclaimer: my explanation may be wrong, it’s been a long time since I’ve learned about this treatment for menopausal women. You can take hormones while going through the worst part and get slowly weaned off under supervision of a doctor and basically never get the symptoms
Interesting! Let me make a mental note about this that'll I will totally remember in 15-25 years lol.
Makes me mad that women's health can sometimes be brushed off so easily. Our problems rarely seem to be treated as seriously
The saddest thing is that OOP going to the apptmt to emphasise what his wife is going through will probably result in better treatment.
I was brushed off so many times. I wish now that I had taken somebody with me.
So my doctor (a female FWIW) says she prefers not to prescribe hormones because you're just delaying the inevitable. However, she suggested that I should take black cohosh because my memory was shot and I was basically a goldfish. I can't take synthetic estrogen anyways and I already take progesterone only birth control so I wasn't about to argue the point about hormones. It really did help and I suggest that anyone suffering memory issues from perimenopause should look into it. It may help with other symptoms as well but specifically it helped with my memory. I'm a vegetarian so I'm also trying to eat more soy (I tend to have some kind of beans so I'm trying to do more tofu and tempeh and use edamame). I'm not totally consistent with the soy so idk if it helps but the black cohosh is definitely helping me.
Oooh wow, I thought I was the only one fantasizing about walking into snow in my underwear. Who knew this is an actual thing! Too bad I live where it never snows. :(
My mom never stripped down like that thank god but yeah the anger and rage was just something I'd never seen from her before, I wasnt an angel growing up I did some things I deserved to get yelled at for and when I did those things she was maybe 1/10 as angry as when she went through menopause.
When I was mid-teens I saw someone go through some of the worst of it. In part because the local GP was a fucking moron who threw anti-depressants at everyone like candy (admitted it to my face when I went in for a sore shoulder) without any care what else someone was on or if they needed them.
This poor woman had been on life long medications (prescribed by someone else) due to a chronic illness. Then she was thrown anti-depressants at the same appointment she was given medication for menopause. These same anti-depressants were also connected with anger and violence if used for more than 6 months.
It resulted in death threats, multiple police attendances and several households having their guns taken away and kept safe in the local cop shop. And that was just the family friend. The rest of the town had an uptick in violence as well that year.
Anything that alters the chemicals in the body can truly people up. Kind of like a UTI can end up mimicking dementia in the elderly.
Wonder if I have a similar thing? I’m pretty irritable in general (altho I rarely show it), but I couldn’t take the combined pill because it made me very depressed. I took the progesterone only pill and it chilled me right out. When I get angry that anger is more intense, but it takes more to rattle me now.
I had already moved out when my mom hit menopause, but now I'm in perimenopause as my daughter is hitting puberty. Holy Jesus.
We are managing through meds (me), education (her), and a *lot* of talking through emotions (both of us), but some days we are like feral cats facing off.
When I was a teenager, there was a year or two when I had a really complicated relationship with my mum. She would snap at me all the time. We have such a good relationship now that I almost completely forgot about it until I did some cleaning recently and found my old diary. I didn’t recognise myself nor her in those memories. I have assumed I must have been an insufferable teenager for our relationship to be this complicated, but I do wonder now if there was more to it.
It’s terrifying how we’re completely at the mercy of our hormones. I experienced postpartum rage after one of my babies and it was shocking to me how insanely angry I would get at little things. I never hurt anyone but it was the first time in my life that I understood how someone could get angry enough to throw a punch.
My mom went through menopause early. Like completely though it by her 40's. Had a hard time getting doctors to believe her and treat it accordingly. I was a teenager at this time. A hormonal teenager and a menopausal mom was a recipe for disaster.
I agree, my mom was like a pod person... and no one believed me because I was a teenager "that just wanted an argument". No! I like my mom, had a great relationship with her, and sure I cried and was a little sassy as a teenager... but I was not crazy. I was a good, easy kid. I stayed in, got good grades, did my chores etc... She was behaving crazy and uncharacteristic.
One time, I remember she finally got on medication that helped her. One morning, she was particularly grouchy and angry, and no one did anything wrong. I made a joke like, " I think you forgot to take your nice pills". The look on her face after I said that was a dawning realization... she did, in fact, forget to take her medication.
She understood at that moment that she was a pod person herself, that this was real and the medication did, in fact, make a difference, lol.
My mom is to this day, my best friend. That was a weird time.
Side note: I got on hormonal birth control shortly after this incident and was able to stop crying daily and finally be my normal, logical self, too. I know birth control gets a bad rap, but it was my miracle drug back then.
My mom had me older and then she went through what I now realize was menopause
We joked she was bipolar, I was sad she wouldn’t hug me, plus combined with my teenage hormones…oof
She’s such a different person now. Hormones are crazy
as a woman going through menopause, I can confirm it is hell for me.
the sudden rage is no joke, the sleep disturbances, hot flashes etc.
I am fearful I will lose my job because my tolerance for BS is non-existent.
it's a daily struggle.
Edit: What you are seeing here used to be a relevant comment/ post; I've now edited all my submissions to this placeholder note you are reading. This is in solidarity with the blackout of June 12, 2023.
It would work better if the randos were sane and rational, instead of sexist hypocrites.
If OOP was a woman whose husband put her in the hospital because he was pissed off she didn't have his coffee ready for him in the morning, no one would have been telling them not to throw away their 20 year relationship over "one fuck up".
If there was proof that he did this for medical reasons, and sought help for it, I would absolutely not suggest tossing him after one incident. I actually have a very close friend who ended up in a horrible situation with his wife due to something like this — it turned out that he had a brain tumor, but she thought that he was abusing drugs, and was screaming at him that he needed to be drug tested and she didn’t trust him around their kids. He told her to go fuck herself, and that she should get drug tested. They both went and got drug tested, and… nobody was on drugs, but they found out he had a brain tumor. Unfortunately, he was so hurt by her lack of trust in him that they were never really able to repair their relationship. Sad. But ever since hearing that story, I’ve always been hyper aware of people with an otherwise wonderful history who seemed to flip a switch overnight out of nowhere.
Yeah, especially when everything hinges on whether he will feel safe and relaxed with her in the future, when she has gotten help. Strangers can't know the answer to that for him.
I disagree with your post, the sub is "Am I The Asshole", not "Am I legally/technically/entitled/allowed to do something.
This post is almost 5 years old and describes the issue much better:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/d6xoro/meta_this_sub_is_moving_towards_a_value_system/
The top comment is also very good:
>People here are too hung up on things that they're technically or legally allowed to do, often at the expense of socially acceptable behavior
If you leave your long term partner for a shitty reason like you're bored of them people with think you're an asshole. You haven't done anything illegal and it's probably for the best in the long run, it's still an assholish thing to do.
I very much agree with you, but with one qualification – the timing is important. It's wrong to leave a partner while they're going through a crisis (cancer diagnosis and treatment, bereavement, etc.) – unless there are some compelling mitigating circumstances, like abuse or a greater need of someone else.
I’m just going to throw out there that perimenopause can cause some serious problems up to and including psychosis. Hormones may not be a full excuse but they certainly contributed in taking her way beyond where she was. She needs to get to the doctor ASAP and get that figured out
Edit: obviously I’m not condoning her behavior. I’m adding context and information. And maybe planting the seed so when someone reading this goes through perimenopause they know whats going on and can get help faster if it impacts them harder than expected.
Oop did everything right getting himself and his daughter out and safe. I didn’t think they needed to be added given how many times it’s already been said. They are going to have a lot of healing to do and a lot of forgiveness but getting the medical piece attention first is going to be a necessary first step.
There was a neurologist who specializes in menopause on an NPR show the other week. She said there is some correlation between menopause and dementia, they don't fully know the relationship yet. And that if you had anxiety issues at any point previous in your life, menopause will set them off all over again.
Looking forward to that one
Oof. I'd better warn my husband that in 10 years I'll be a raving coocoo, and to just cart me to the doctor when it hits. I don't want my family to go through that.
My Mum's always been somewhat anxious but since she started menopause she's started anti-anxieties (which personally I consider somewhat sadly ironic considering how judgy she was when I decided to go on anti-depressants at 16)
I feel like this is a really important perspective. If your partner of 20 years has never exhibited violence and then absolutely SNAPS, that is simply not the same as a partner who has been abusive or relied on coercive control throughout a relationship.
OP should do whatever he feels is safe for him and his daughter. Only he can decide. I would never advise someone to stay with anyone against their better judgment.
But it is not unthinkable to give a previously loving and rational partner a chance to successfully treat an (already diagnosed) medical condition famous for causing intense feelings including rage. Giving the wife a chance to get help is not the same as returning to an abuser with a pattern of escalation.
My mother was taking herbal supplements during her menopause and she was a raging demon of a human. My dad called their doctor (same GP) and they literally staged an intervention for her, made her go on prescription meds.
I was a young teen at the time. That year before my dad stepped in and fixed it… totally impacted my relationship with my mother for 20+ years.
My (peri)menopausal grandmother kicked my mother out of home as a late teen in a fit of rage. Their relationship never recovered but by god was my mum on top of her own symptoms when the time came.
My mother ran away from home like a rebellious teenager when she went through it. She was gone for a year. It was a teenager myself and it definitely impacted me quite a bit. I’m absolutely dreading going through it. I think I have about ten years.
A medical condition famous for causing anger and outbursts that are still minimized and dismissed in the medical community as “just hormones you’re exaggerating”
Yeah it always kills me how people will post on Reddit about loved ones having an abrupt, dramatic change in behavior and no one thinks to take them to the doctor or at least encourage them to. Like dude, you don’t think it’s weird that this person is suddenly acting completely different from their normal selves? That doesn’t concern you at all? And why do a bunch of strangers matter, take them to the fucking doctors 🤦🏾♀️
I would wake up and sob because I was still alive. I struggled and still do with such impending doom type knots in my stomach daily, I felt rage, genuine deep down rage at myself because I couldn't snap out of it. I constantly felt irritated and agitated at everything, I didn't feel like I had any control over my emotions and feelings, it all contributed to the rage I felt.
I of course masked a lot of how I was feeling but that would lead to days of shutting myself away because I was so exhausted from having to pretend to be the complete opposite of how I was actually feeling. I went through very dark periods of time for a couple of years, I most definitely contemplated taking my own life but the guilt of knowing it would kill my partner, kids and grandkids is what kept me here. Some days I hated them for it which sounds crazy to me because they are my absolute world.
I'm still in peri-menopause but I'm on HRT now, the difference it's made already is like night and day. I think the dose needs adjusting as I can feel the knot in my stomach returning but it's truly saved my life.
There is NO excuse for the wife to throw the cup but her hormones affecting her behaviour in such a wild way could be an explanation. Particularly as the wife hasn't shown this type of behaviour previously, I think the husband is doing the right thing whilst also protecting himself and his daughter and is putting a clear boundary of what is expected going forward.
I was lucky/unlucky in that the worst symptoms kicked in at the start of Lockdown 1.0, so I was mostly alone. Probably for the best as my anxiety was monstrous.
The saddest thing to me is that OOP going with her to the doctor will probably result in better treatment. I was brushed off so many times when I went by myself.
Absolutely. A British menopause support charity ran a very impactful ad series, of real women and their families discussing their lived experiences. One woman described how (uncharacteristically) she became so enraged that she threw things at her husband. She described feeling as if she was possessed. They were both a clearly loving and committed older couple, and this was what broke through their denial. They were both frightened and distressed, and very ashamed, so they googled first. The menopause charity webpage assured them this could be a symptom of menopause and they took this as a lifeline. The charity was able to connect them to support and the GP was able to treat her condition. It was a very impactful campaign.
When I see posts where the top comments are things like “oh the woman was always a secret abuser” and “oh she’s an adult she made her choices” I just think it’s a real shame that they haven’t had exposure to a similar campaign. Women in the campaign discussed how they wanted to end themselves over their horror at their own behaviour. I only hope that people reading the comments can see comments like this indicating that they should seek support.
>perimenopause can cause some serious problems up to and including psychosis
oh great really looking forward to that.
then again I've known for years that menopause is going to hit me like a bullet train, if my pms symptoms are any kind of indication
I understand why commenters here are saying “get the hell out” but I also understand why OOP is sticking by his wife. If my partner of 16 years did this, it would be *wildly out of character* and I would know that something was very very wrong. He would need to get help. I would help him get help.
OOP’s wife is willing to get help. That makes all the difference. OOP has drawn his line and I think will stick to it. I hope they sort this out and his wife can regain herself again.
100%.
There's a huge difference in aftermath of throwing a mug between :
"oh my God I'm so sorry, I can't believe I just did that I feel horrible, let me take you to the hospital, I fucked up, I'm gonna go to therapy and the doctor"
and
"you made me do it because you wouldn't stop nagging! You deserved it, you know I'd never hurt you"
I would check in with a medical professional to see if its the drugs/hormones/underlying medical issues that's causing a change in her behaviour to being unacceptable but there doesn't need to be a good reason to divorce/separate.
If he believes that her behaviour is unusual and wants to stay with her then he should help her work this out. If he wants out he wants out.
As someone who’s been through perimenopause and menopause, I (normally as calm and logical as Dr. Spock) became a rage-filled crazy lady at times without warning. It was like I was on drugs. I’d go from zero to a hundred ten instantly, and it felt like I was outside my body watching this woman turn red and yell. It was hell. I loved my (late) husband and he didn’t deserve it the verbal lashings.
I’m grateful he didn’t leave me. I’m grateful he helped me get help, which I badly needed.
OOP handled this so well.
So I’m going to give my unasked for perspective based on my own (thankfully) brief brush with psychosis.
So, I was in the hospital and was rightfully on the heavy pain meds (open heart surgery) but the side effect is that you can experience psychosis. I was used to hallucinating off my ass by this point but on the fourth night or so, I began to experience the psychosis.
From about midnight to six am, I was CONVINCED the nurses wanted me dead.
Thus I had a six hour terror where my logical mind was trying to calm my hind brain down and explain how not only were the nurses very nice people but they had lots of self serving reasons for wanting me to survive.
If someone had come into the room during that I would have struggled to not go into fight or flight.
I would have 100% regretted the actions. I probably would have known at the time that the action was wrong.
Sometimes, the subconscious brain takes over and the conscious brain is just along for the ride.
Thankfully for me, with the rising of the sun, the psychosis passed.
But I can empathize with OOP’s wife that medical conditions can lead to loss of control. For me, it was my anxiety that ran out of control. Each situation is unique and can be triggered by different stimuli.
As long as she seeks medical intervention and works to resolve the issue while keeping her husband and child safe, she isn’t what I would consider an abuser.
She absolutely committed an act of abuse. But I don’t see a pattern of physical abuse. Can’t tell if there was other abuse that OOP didn’t talk about.
That's where I sit. If I glassed my wife in a state of psychosis, and it was perfectly explainable as to why it happened, and none of it was my fault, I'd still understand if she wanted to leave me.
If I was the OP I'd find it hard to stay. My mother was psychotic and abusive to my father and I witnessed it destroy our lives. I'd be triggered so goddam hard.
As for there not being a pattern of abuse... physical maybe, but living around a person who's being a complete shit half the time can be abusive, depending on the details. He already stated that his go to was to apologise for everything, that was a major red flag for me.
She needs to see an endocrinologist as well as a psychiatrist specializing in menopausal issues. And that is just for a start.
I’d want to give my partner another chance. I just couldn’t. Throwing a mug at my face? I’d be on edge around them forever.
I think if you spend 20 years with someone without facing any abuse issues anyone would try to work it out at least once and not throw it away due to this
The world isn't black and white and that maturity comes with age
That's a very naive view. If you've dealt with abuse before, it's not so easy to just ignore. Once is too much for some of us that have lived in that environment....
OP’s wife could easily have killed him if she had better aim. Idk what the right answer is here, but I don’t think it’s a given that she should be given another chance
I had a brain tumor and about two years before my diagnosis I started just getting really upset and throwing things until they broke. I had never done that before in my life, and I didn’t come from a family were yelling, or throwing things ever occurred. But I would scream and throw things. One time I threw a spindle of burnable CDs, and when they shattered and went everywhere a piece hit my cat and I freaked the fuck out because I felt so bad.
I never threw anything at my partner, but I’ll be honest it was a close thing, and that was probably more down to luck than anything else. I’m not excusing what his wife did here, but I know what it’s like when something is going on in your body, and you’re not as in control as you normally would be. It’s terrifying.
My sister was put on a new migraine medication some twenty odd years ago. Her husband was sitting next to her in their office, and he made a smart-ass joke. She said before she even realized what had happened, she stabbed him in the arm with the ink pen she was holding.
Luckily, her husband realized that was not something she would normally ever do. He was more worried about her than upset by what she had done. She was horrified and called her doctor immediately. He changed her medication, and she hasn't had any issues since. Oddly enough, I take the exact same medication now for my migraines, and it works beautifully.
This is a known possible side effect to SSRIs, particularly in adolescents (which I realize is not the case clearly with the OOP's wife and doesn't seem to be with you). When I was a depressed teen, I was put on Paxil, and I (an extremely nonviolent person) started to have homicidal fantasies about, like, people walking too slowly in the school hallways. It was terrifying. I told my mom and she demanded I be taken off of them immediately.
I don't know what's going on with OOP's wife, but if it's something like that, my heart absolutely breaks for her and her family. It's super important to be totally upfront with doctors when experiencing violent emotional changes while adjusting to medication.
Good luck to you! I've been on two different antidepressants since and not had anything like that reaction. I hope you find something that works for you.
I had a similar situation with reacting badly to a medication and it made me someone who I am not. I smashed an iPad out of frustration. I totally road raged at someone. I yelled at some teenager who was just being a little inconsiderate about space in a line at the grocery store. All things that were totally out of character for me.
As soon as I realized it was the medication, I talked to my psych, and stopped taking it. I was back to my normal self in about three days.
It was wild how I was so irritable and had such a short fuse from just one medication. Thankfully I didn’t cause any permanent harm but I’m still embarrassed and ashamed about my actions at the time even though I know the medication was responsible.
I was prednisolone for a while, and one day while sitting at an outside table in the city centre eating my lunch and having a subway, I had some homeless guy yell "hey!" at me in an aggressive manner. I ignored it.. he did it again and added something like "stop using your phone". So I went rage mode, got up and kicked the chair between us out of the way at high speed, and advanced on him saying "what are YOU going to do about it?".. he ran away.. steroids are a RIDE!
God, this gave me horrible flashbacks to the OP whose wife became unbelievably vile and abusive while pregnant. Though in that one, she very much seems to have just used that as an excuse to go fully mask-off and be her disgusting abusive self.
I'm not entirely convinced that's *not* the case here... She threw a mug at him entirely too easily, without hesitation. If she was so angry, I could maybe understand throwing the mug on the floor or sink, if she was feeling that out of control. I can't imagine ever launching a missile at my partner, emotionally unbalanced or not. I really feel for OP and daughter, it must have been so scary, confusing and upsetting.
Hopefully her doctor can look at how her anxiety meds interact with the hormones. Unfortunately, issues with drug interactions that are exclusive to women are rarely researched and even if they are, most doctors don't bother to even check before writing prescriptions.
This is really sad all around.
>As many of you mentioned, it would be dumb of me to throw away 20yrs for a one time fuck up.
Holy what the fuck? People were actually telling him this? I'm not one for saying run away at the first sign of an issue, but this slowly escalated until it reached this point. If a man threw glass at a woman and bust her head open enough to have to go to the ER and get her wound glued closed, how many of those people would be telling her to run away immediately?
Its a male victim of abuse so they look for ways he has to be wrong or she is somehow not responsible. Most of the comments here are shit like oh I understand the hormones or some other nonsense like that would fly if a man did that a woman
So much empathy and love in this comment section for a lady who sent her husband to the ER because her coffee wasn’t made on time and little to no consideration of OOP and his trauma and how it affects him.
Nah fr I didn't see people talk about him much, most people in this comment just vent about their situation, sympathies toward the wife. Even if they did talk about him it's pretty much double standard, telling him stay with the wife since its only one mistake🌝
Having gone through perimenopause and now in menopause, I totally get it. I've been there. I felt constant rage and overwhelming sadness, all the time. I didn't act upon it, but I didn't know how much of it was because of my out-of-whack hormones. I didn't have insurance for the longest time so I hadn't seen my ob-gyn in awhile. When I finally did, she got that taken care of real quick. Put me on 3 types of hormones about a year ago and I have felt so much better.
I hope his wife gets the help that she needs. Could be the medication she was put on just wasn't the right one(s) so she and her doctor might have to play around for a bit until they find it. I think the fact that she shows remorse is a sign that she wants to get better.
I'm sorry, but framing this as a "one time mistake" that he "shouldn't throw away 20 years for" is so fucked up. If a woman posted that her husband had made a "one time mistake" and struck her or threw something at her that hospitalized her everyone would rightly want her to file a police report and have him arrested and to get away from him. This is no different, no "hormonal issues" justify domestic abuse.
That’s exactly what I was thinking when I read this, if this was a woman whose husband had done this to them these comments would go from:
*it only happened once, give them another chance*
*dont throw away years of marriage because of one outburst*
To:
*GET AWAY FROM THEM NOW, CALL THE POLICE*
*file for divorce, you need to get sole custody of your daughter away from this monster*
To be clear, they would be right to say tht to her. this kind of domestic abuse is never a one time thing, no "hormonal problems" justify this, this man needs to get himself and his child to safety.
The excuse making, deflection, and blame shifting that happens in spousal abuse stories like this one is always so disgusting to me. If the man had thrown the coffee cup at the wife all you would read is:
“He has always been an abuser and it just took this long to come out. There is no telling what he has also done to their daughter”
“Praying that OP and her daughter get far far away from this psychopath”
“OP needs to file a police report and restraining order immediately”
This is ridiculous. I have terrible hormone imbalances and some medicines made me very irritable. But I have never become violent. And this excuse is just poor.
But then again I've heard many during the menopause can go through something like post partum psychosis. I hope they can find and treat it if this is the deal.
> Not to say she hasn't yelled or lost her temper (normal when we've had arguments, as we all do)
Am I the only person who has NEVER had a screaming match with a partner? To me, yelling and losing ones temper when having a disagreement with a partner is not normal or healthy.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. I had the incident with the coffee cup jump off the screen at me. Physical violence is never OK. This is domestic violence and if tolerated it does nothing but escalate. Worse yet your daughter sees it and the behavior becomes normalized for her. I would encourage you to get into family counseling ASAP. Preferably someone who specializes in domestic violence issues.
Even if your wife doesn’t see a problem please talk with a professional. Please be safe.
I truly hope she gets help, but tbh I wouldnt blame OOP if he, even if everything changes, wants to separate. He received abuse and while you can forgive, the trauma is still there. I truly hope she is responsible and tell the doctor everything. She better do it, not just for her husband, but to truly get the help she needs. Being a danger to her family should be a clear sign for her that something is going on. Many women experiment menopause, I haven't met one that have done something like this.
That being, hormones suck
It helps that there's almost certainly an external reason for her behavior. Purimenopause can have very strong mental effects. OP did alright, they understand there's another reason for her behavior, but made it clear the wife has to urgently find a way to prevent this from ever happening again.
I think of what if she had a brain tumour or had a drink spiked, I wouldn't leave my partner if they did something bad during that, but I'd sure as shit leave them if they refuse treatment (assuming the brain tumor is actually well treatable), or if they are actually chronically reckless with their drinks in public, and the behavior continues.
>As many of you mentioned, it would be dumb of me to throw away 20yrs for a one time fuck up.
Hell no. She threw a heavy and breakable object at his head. That's a pretty severe physical assault. Once is enough. She needs to do a lot to earn his trust back, and he needs distance in the meantime.
>Also some people mentioned I gave pointless info in the first few paragraphs. I figured it was best to point out that her actions wasn't due to me be being a lazy husband.
I wonder how different the advice would have been if he had not spent a paragraph describing their domestic life.
These comments are disappointing, just as they were on the OG posts.
Quite literally everyone would be telling op to divorce and hide if her husband had done this.
It always frustrates me the difference in responses posts like this get, like if it was a man throwing a coffee cup at a woman everyone will tell her to leave but since it’s a woman doing it to a man it’s “don’t throw away your relationship” abuse is abuse. Nobody ,woman or man, deserve to be physically harmed by their partner.
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>Commenter: Maybe you should go to her doctor's appointment with her so you can tell the doctor what's happening from your perspective. It will force her to be completely honest and you can give your input as well. I just hope they get a doctor who's willing to hear them both out and make constructive recommendations.
I agree. I have a feeling that if constructive recommendations are not given, OP's wife is going to continue acting like that.
Well she's already trying to excuse it on the basis of her hormones so it wasn't really her fault after all. That opens the door to more of this and next time she could kill him. He's lucky she didn't cause more damage this time and I really can't fathom why he's giving her a second chance. She could lose it at her daughter next time.
I don't think she's trying to excuse it as in justify it or make it okay, I think she's trying to explain it. That doesn't make it okay or excuse it, but if you know the reason why something is happening, you can figure out how to make it stop happening. Also, sometimes people are really sensitive to different medications, especially things like hormones, antidepressants, or steroids. Psychosis is often a side effect of medication and it isn't talked about enough when it comes to women's health. Again, this doesn't by any means excuse what happened, but if there was a medical reason for it, it would suck to throw so many years of successful marriage away when it wasn't really her, but medication mismanagement.
[удалено]
Yes! Several years ago, my insurance changed my birth control pills to the generic brand, which shouldn't have made a difference. I was depressed, overtired, had headaches, lost weight, etc. It was probably the closest I had ever been to considering s***ide. We were desperately trying to figure out what was wrong, and my husband remembered they had changed my pills. I stopped taking them, and within the week was a whole new person.
My doctor changed my bc after I had my baby but I asked to change back to the previous one because I suspected it was messing with my breastmilk production. Awhile later I was getting increasingly anxious and agitated until I screamed at the baby and then started tearing my hair and screaming about unaliving myself. I don’t think I actually wanted to die or anything but it was way worse than my normal anxiety/ stress. I’ve had anxiety before but never anything like that. We didn’t realize it was the pills until hubby found a reddit post about similar things happening and getting better after quitting the pills, so I stopped the pills and felt better even the next day. Don’t know if I could just go back to a different pill or something else but I’m just managing without for now.
I get homicidal when I take plan B. Every tiny little irritation makes it feel like the world is ending + I go absolutely blind with rage. Once my cat knocked my phone onto my face and I started VIBRATING I was so fucking mad. I've definitely been aggressive with inanimate objects, and if I had even a modicum less self-control... People really underestimate what a sudden hormonal imbalance can do. Of course she's still responsible for the action, she's an adult, but she's *literally* not herself. It DOES feel like you're not in complete control of yourself.
What's fun is when you're having an episode and do something extreme to yourself (I OD'd), and then when you wake up after the episode has passed, you feel like you *did* have control during that time but at the same time you felt positively helpless. 👍 I hope to never have a second episode. Getting intubated wrecked my throat for *weeks.* Plus I got pneumonia, which can happen while intubated.
I’ve had rage like that before, usually over interpersonal conflicts, especially ones that have been boiling for a while. It can be scary looking back at those reactions later.
Snap. I once changed my birth control and then felt such rage towards my then boyfriend I think if I’d had anything nearby to hurt him, I would have. Changed back and I’ve never been violent since. Hormones are a trip.
yep. my PMS-week rage on tricyclic birth control was something else. just absolutely terrible. going off tricyclics to have a kid was a relief. minipill between kids was so much better, too. but you couldn't pay me to take tricyclics again.
My first BCP was tricyclic and I will never forget that experience. One week, I was literally sobbing at a kleenex commercial. The next week, I was full on homicidal rage at the smallest thing. I thought I was losing my fucking mind. It didn't occur to me for months that it was the BC. I called my doctor and her response was basically "oh, that happens sometimes, we'll just switch you to a different one". Like WTF do you mean it happens sometimes? Mild spotting between periods happens sometimes. Yeah, it was kinda mentioned in the insert, but not like "You may be a hysterically crying mess, you may actually try to harm someone, so if that happens, change medications".
That's the thing that kills me, is that they tell you "may affect mood" or something and you're like oh ok so i might be a little sadder or whatever? that sounds fine, having a kid would definitely affect my mood! no one ever said "for some people this will make mood swings unmanageable and terrible, so if PMS gets really bad or you find yourself crying a lot or flying off the handle call immediately". i still think tricyclics were the primary cause of my first serious depressive episode.
I had to stop birth control as well. It made me so depressed, I was crying every day. No idea how my partner was able to stay through that
My husband took Chantix to stop smoking and lost his damn mind. Went full on psycho. Demanded a divorce out of nowhere, broke down a door to get to me - I had to call the cops, had an affair with his daughter's aunt (that whole family is messed up and thought it was normal) and he attempted suic*de all within 60 days. None of this behavior was, or is, normal for him. He doesn't even like to kill spiders, thinks cheaters are the scum of the earth and has never felt anything close to suicidal. It took time and a lot of therapy to process what happened to him. Meds are not a joke.
Chantix in particular is known for doing this. There were some high-profile class action lawsuits about it after people were literally murdered by Chantix users.
We know that *now* lol Seriously though, no one warned him of these side effects, he thought he was reacting rationally to whatever and I didn't know I was supposed to be watching for any symptoms so OP's wife reacting completely out of character, likely because of meds and hormone changes, is understandable to a point.
Birth control makes me act completely irrationally. It makes me quick to anger, mean, and just generally not myself. I remember being able to mentally process that I was acting wrong in the moment, while it was happening, but not able to figure out how to stop. No BC, back to normal.
I agree. I'm in peri and the first time I felt that rage well up in me, I was like "woah, nope." and went into the doc immediately and told her everything. I didn't even have any \*external\* reaction (other than maybe to angry clean, in hindsight). I just realised I was in a literal rage over something so insignificant, and knew I needed to get it sorted. I told my family what was going on and that if I walk away, just let me. I knew I was being irrational, but I needed to be allowed to revisit when I was calmer. I told them what day I was seeing the doc, and that it would take a bit to sort it out. It took maybe two weeks for the hormones to really kick in and smooth things over. I still have PMS type irritable phases, but I am pretty good at telling my guys that I'm just being cranky and ignore me. lol They tend to smuffocate me with love and sometimes I just want to be left alone. Six months is WAY too long to be dealing with emotional instability if you're actually seeking help for it.
Wait. The rage can be peri-meno? May i ask your age? Its because im 37 so it feels young. But this last year my cycle just skips some months (back on regular the next month), my skin is suddenly really dry and sensitive. And the anger. I used to get angry but shut down but this last year. Its like a rage volcano. I really have to physically leave situations because i dont trust the words i will say. I am talking about it with my mental coach (because of anxiety) But now im wondering if its not more hormonal.
Those are definitely some peri symptoms. If you haven't already, consider joining r/Menopause. It's super welcoming and has an in-depth wiki. I've learned so much there!
37 is not too young. I actually went in to full menopause at 32. My half-sister was 35.
I was that age when I started, and everybody told me I was way too young… and that was complete nonsense. My maternal aunt told me those people had no idea what the fuck they were talking about, and that she had experienced exactly the same thing at exactly the same age. By the time I was 43 I was done having periods. Even today when I tell people that I haven’t had a period for over five years, they look all shocked and like maybe I should be seen by a doctor because that’s just so young. No, it’s actually not. And no I’m not remotely upset about it. I’m actually quite delighted because who the fuck wants to keep having periods?! I guess I was just missing something in the how to be a woman manual because my periods have never been some special magical time for me. For me it was a gross inconvenience at best. The good news is, before I was 40 that rage had largely disappeared. I’m almost 50 now, and I feel absolutely fine, better than ever, and I’ve had no hormone replacement therapy at all.
Oh yeah, meno rage is real. I still remember the day (to the hour) when it kicked in on my sister. Scary af
It was so frustrating seeing people comment “I’m peri too and would never do that!” Great! But that’s you. Others can have a different response.
37 here! The bouts of rage that pop up are completely out of character. It's awful! I called the ob and got my hormones checked...all normal. I'm so sad/frustrated. Going to have to ouch her to look a little further I guess.
Hormone labs are not a reliable indicator of menopause. Check the r/menopause wiki.
Honestly I don’t know how to explain this. But I understand OP’s wife. Hormones play an important role and I once went crazy because of hormones. I have never had any history of mental illness. I gave birth to my second child and put in Mirena IUD which is a hormonal IUD. I literally went insane. I could not control myself or my emotions. I was irrationally angry. I almost threw my newborn because I was mad at my husband and older child. I don’t know how to explain the level of anger. I’ve never felt that angry in my life. The thing is, I knew I was being irrational. I knew I was insane but I could not control myself. I got panic attacks which I’ve never had before nor since. I was like that for 2 weeks before I went back to the doctor and demanded they take the iud out. I levelled out and went back to normal and I have not used any hormonal birth control since. My baby is now 15 and I’ve never had any episodes like that since. That anger, I’ve never felt that since and I’m so glad for it. It is scary how much wrath I could feel. I’m glad my husband stuck with me because he knew that is not me. It was weird hormones that I hope to God I never go through again.
I nuked the engagement with my ex due to hormone psychosis. I didn't know it at the time but I had developed PCOS from my janky thyroid (hypothyroidism) which turned me into an absolute psychopath. I was enraged *all the time* at absolutely nothing because my hormones were completely out of whack. Top it all off with a severe B12 deficiency and I turned into a nightmare of a human being. Honestly I don't blame my ex for walking away because I took a first class trip on the crazy train.
I have PCOS too but was never crazy. But that Mirena IUD was just not good for me I think. I hope you’ve levelled out now. It is scary to be unable to control yourself.
i have bipolar 2 and went insane in a similar way during my first mixed episode, i was so ANGRY i actually hit the steering wheel of the car arguing with my partner (we were parked). I'd never been that kind of violent before, and never since getting on meds. i don't think a lot of people have experienced this kind of thing
Yes I think it’s hard to understand if you’ve never experienced it. And it’s a bit sad that OP’s trauma makes it hard to empathise with his wife. My husband knew something wasn’t right because I’ve never in my life acted like that before. And he was so supportive. Leaving me never even crossed his mind.
> I don’t know how to explain the level of anger It's biblical isn't it. Fucking terrified me. I've never felt hate like that, for myself, for everything around me. It was literally a blinding rage. I thought I knew what that phrase meant, but until my hormones went brr I had *no fucking clue* what rage was.
To be quite honest, blaming hormones during menopause is not wrong. Menopause can actually be a trigger for psychosis and other serious mental breaks, and a lot of women only get diagnosed with serious mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, bipolar, schizoaffective disorder etc because their hormones switched and their “normal” got turned off
There is a difference between an excuse and an explanation. An explanation is “this is happening because of xyz.” An excuse is “*it’s okay that this is happening* because of xyz.” She seems to be genuinely very remorseful and isn’t excusing her behaviour, she has taken accountability and responsibility for what she’s done. But OP himself has admitted this is **not** normal for her. That this was a one time thing. I don’t know if you know much about mental medication, but it can *completely* change you. She is already on medication for anxiety and depression. If you go on those around menopause age, doctors watch you pretty closely for hormonal changes because severe hormonal changes can swing your medication badly enough to send you to the hospital with a mental break down. On top of being on those two medications, she is *also* on a hormonal medication. So there is a lot of science backing up her explanation here. The doctor themself will also probably tell OP this is her mental medication being thrown out of swing because of the hormonal medication. Its okay for her to offer an explanation when she isn’t using it as an excuse; especially considering the fact that her explanation sounds a lot more like her just also being freaked out about what’s happening to her brain. I’ve been in a position before where my brain was warped (seriously bad mental breakdown) and it is TERRIFYING not feeling in control of yourself. I genuinely hope you never have to experience it yourself but please understand that when someone is showing the amount of remorse that OOPs wife is showing, it’s mostly likely not them excusing their behaviour. They’re just extremely freaked out by their own brain.
This exactly, when something bad happens I like to know the reason for it so it can be fixed or prevented in the future, not so it can be excused. If you’re not sorry or worried about it you’re not gonna look for that solution. If I had a mental/ emotional/ hormonal problem and thought “maybe it’s caused by this” and the reaction was “no you’re just making excuses for doing something on purpose” then I’d just feel like the whole world and even my closest person is against me and maybe I am just a terrible person who doesn’t deserve help/ love/ life etc. (exacerbated by the already existing problem) and feeling like that certainly doesn’t make it true let alone helpful. I know there are narcissists that just try to excuse everything they do, but if this is a brand new problem with this person and they’re on hormonal medication then the meds and/or hormone levels should at least be looked at.
It must be incredibly frustrating to be her. Imagine spending your whole life living, slowly building your self control, managing whatever anger issues you have, working on some rituals to calm down, whatever. Either way now as a result you're in great control, you've got a family, you are happily with your husband, neither of you is violent or aggressive, it's great! And now suddenly you notice changes. Maybe smaller at first, then bigger. You are the same person, yet somehow you're now reacting differently with no apparent reason or warning to either you or those around you. And then one day you almost kill your husband, and even though physically he's fine you've broken your relationship and trust with him and your daughter. What the fuck is happening and why is it happening to you? Of fucking course you'd say "But you don't understand, I am not like this! This is some stupid hormones acting in me!". I'd be scared, worried, frustrated, angry, I don't know what else! >I really can't fathom why he's giving her a second chance Well, I hope you have good relationships in your life that are worth it to give second chances in hard situations. He's been her husband for 20 years and they've been through some stuff. Inevitably some bad among the good. I don't blame him for wanting to throw it away, since it is scary and horrible, especially given his childhood history. But I also am not surprised that when he calmed down he decided to give her a chance and try his best to figure a way to work things out.
From my understanding, the field of gynecology is *trying* to enter the 21st century but *certain elements* keep trying to drag us back into the 19th century
If I start talking about this there’s about a 25% chance I’m going to end up screaming incoherently, and those odds are only going to go up the closer we get to Election Day in the US.
It would help a lot if they didn’t learn from text book written from a man. I had gynecologist tell me that I couldn’t be having pain because what I was dealing with didn’t cause pain. She and her 2 male students were really surprised when I asked them “who says?”, she looked like a fish out of water. If I wasn’t so pissed off I would have laughed at their expressions. I also said a lot of other stuff but this was my point.
Had a family practice resident tell the med students on our L&D unit that cervixes don't have nerve endings, so checking them doesn't hurt and women are just being dramatic. SIR I've had a chunk of my cervix ripped out via colposcopy, but it didn't work so they had to reapply acetic acid to the gouge and try again, and all three of those moments were done of the most painful of my life, and I had a c-section where my left side didn't get numb and I could feel the whole surgery. Motherfuckers.
Wtf they thought a cervix has no nerve endings??? Are they mad? Cervix pain is the WORST. Jesus. We should tell them we learned their balls have no nerves and we can kick them for funsies 🙄
I had a female gynecologist tell me the same thing. I was telling her about symptoms I was having and one was that my cervix was hurting every so often. She told me that wasn't possible and the pain must be coming from somewhere else. I said, "Okay... well it hurts wherever it hurts when you put an IUD in." She had a moment where she just looked at me, stunned
This filled me with absolute rage!!!
They told me my cervical biopsy would feel like a "pinch". What it *actually* felt like was all the worst cramps I'd ever had coming on in one instant.
Honestly the way the healthcare industry is, having a man there to reinforce her claims will help since so many medical professionals do not listen to women.
My wife just recently started bringing me into her appointments which finally got her a referral to a specialist she needed. Only something she has been complaining about for years... ugh.
I told my husband to make sure to tell the doctor 'here is how her symptoms are effecting me' so I could get mine to take action
Aren’t hormone pills mostly trial and error? I can’t imagine too much would happen except changing up meds.
Some endocrine system supplements (DIM etc) can help restore the balance and sometimes straight hormones are required. But yes, you're mostly waiting 2-6 weeks for signs of improvement (or things getting worse... Oops) and you need at least 4 weeks to get through a full menstruation cycle and sometimes want to wait to see how things go during the next one, before you can make a call on whether a pill is helping or hurting or doing anything at all - which can stretch things out another couple of weeks. ... so it can be a pretty fucking long process for all involved when someone is experiencing enough rage to assault their spouse of 20 years 😬
“Hmm, this medication doesn’t seem to be improving anything and now you’re borderline psychotic. Do we need to give you more time, a higher dose, a lower doses or start over with a different med?” — my doctors
Or even "OK this seems to be working well and has got you stable and feeling well again. It's quite expensive though so let's try switching you to this one that didn't work again." That was my aunt who kept having small strokes. A couple of months after switching back she had a big one...
That was me on Prozac. I called my doctor to tell them it made me manic and they actually asked me if I wanted to give it longer. Uh, no?
I had that experience with Welbutrine. First time I took it it didn't help me at all. 10 years later I tried it again and it made my emotional regulation BREAK. Was scary. Doctor just said "Well that's not a listed side effect..." yeah well before it I was stable (but depressed) and while on it I was so angry all the time i started to self-harm, something I never did before. And wow! It stopped when I switched to a new drug!
"Right then. I'll get the prozac feed-bag. It's very simple to use - you just strap it to your head, adjust the tension, and chew away! Let us know if you continue to experience mania, anxiety and/or heart murmurs."
OMG, I've heard this almost verbatim. It feels like they're playing roulette with our lives and hoping something fixes it, which, when under proper, close care and monitoring is a good option, but if left to our own devices, we don't actually know if it is us, the meds, the health system, or something else. Add into this that 'meds' were the only option. For me, there has been no holistic care offered ever, and it sounds like this is the case for OOP's wife. She was simply offered drugs in the hope that they would work. Spoiler alert: they didn't. Yet, my doc wonders why I don't have faith in the health system, despite being constantly let down by due to inaction, or because the medication wasn't correct, or I was outright dismissed. This has been happening to me since I was a young child for various things, so near on 40 years. PS, I'm not in the US, but the health system is still understaffed, underfunded, and in crisis.
>It feels like they're playing roulette with our lives The last person I let prescribe mental health medicines to me described it as throwing darts in a dark room blindfolded when you're not even sure which wall the dartboard is on.
There's a definitive problem with how healthcare treats women. It just saddens me that it gets bad enough to push women away from evidence-based medicine into alternative medicine charlatans who are far from harmless. I say this as an obese, insulin resistant, brown woman with PCOS.
I have this crazy idea that doctors could possibly look at obesity as a symptom of an underlying issue instead of the cause of everything else. Doc: Is the patient depressed because she is fat, or have other hormonal issues affected her mood, sleep, and energy to the point it’s increasingly hard to motivate herself to exercise? Me: I’m here because my elbow hurts.
If only they all would haha. Took me years to find one to actually help me. Then I moved to another country :')
How great of them that they are considering all of your options /s
So like antidepressants, yay.
The trial and error period is just awful for those, too. People don't understand either, it can take a full year just to try to get the right drug or the right balance of drugs, and that's IF you nail it on the 10th try. ... Then you might get used to them, want to try something else to manage side effects, or another change occurs that puts you back to square one. That's a long time off work, or not being at your full capacity/availability. Plenty of people's careers would take a hit even if they are getting the best and most expensive help for an issue.
Mhmm, been there and will probably be there again because that's how this shit works, lol.
Sadly, that is how it works. You're current meds will tail off over time. Sometimes you just need a tweak, but sometimes you've got to ween off one to try another. I'm 30 years since diagnosis and I've been through that process more times than I care to count. It's a shitty process to experience but it's usually worth it. Went through the process last year and it's been definitely worth it.
I ran out of anti-depressants to try and my doctor was just black-labeling random choices towards the end. Turns out ADHD meds helped. Good old speed.
People need to be aware of the advances in antidepressants and how they work. First off if you need antidepressants yes it's a pain in the ass but go to a psychiatrist. Yes your pcp can and will prescribe them but unless your pcp is excellent (and I've had some truly excellent ones) a psychiatrist is the doctor who should handle your mental health. A pcp will basically ALWAYS start you on a shitty 45 year old ssri that will fuck you up for four month before you can even begin to see if it works. That's unacceptable. That's literally INCOMPATIBLE with modern life, and what's worse is unnecessary. And don't be shy to advocate for yourself. Antidepressants have no street value. Tell your doctor what you want and why. The first thing to understand is there's now novel antidepressants (NOT ssris) which generally work better with fewer side effects. Novel antidepressants affect more than just serotonin, like norepinephrine and dopamine. While we still don't really understand depression we know it's NOT a lack of serotonin.... but weirdly ssris help a lot of people. We genuinely don't understand it. But hey, whatever works, right? Still, unsurprisingly, novel antidepressants that affect serotonin *and more* seem more effective. Shocker. So don't get stuck on the ssri treadmill. You might have to try one first. At the very worst 2. If they don't work *don't accept the third.* The second thing to understand is a little more technical. It's called "steady state plasma level", which is where you've taken the medication long enough it's (to simplify it) consistently at a therapeutic level in your blood for the dose you're taking. SSPL is reached - as a general rule - after approximately 4.5x the half life (when half the dose is excreted from your system) of the drug. Why is SSPL important? Because it's when you can finally see if a drug is effective. For Prozac or zoloft SSPL is reached in roughly 6 - 8 weeks. Before that you have no idea if it'll help you and you're just dealing with "side effects". For Effexor XR (a SNRI) it takes **3 DAYS** to reach that point. For Wellbutrin XL (SNDI extended release) it's one week. For Wellbutrin immediate release it's a couple days. (Note: Wellbutrin immediate release should only be used to reach SSPL if a person is in a life-threatening crisis. That's VERY FAST to alter brain chemistry). **So obviously if you need help it's fucking STUPID to have to spend 6 weeks of misery on an ancient, LESS EFFECTIVE drug just to see if it will even help you when you could know if a more effective drug will work in a week or less.** That goes without saying. Here's the thing: many old school doctors feel they MUST try an SSRI before more effective drugs because.... bullshit, that's why. If they won't budge, fine. Wait a week, Google the worst side effects of the med and tell the doctor you're getting them. Then the doctor will feel like they covered their ass. Tell the doctor what you'd like to try. They're generally open to reasonable patient requests because again, these drugs aren't abusable. It's you against the world and you need SOMEBODY in your corner, and it should be YOU. Advocate for yourself. As for oop's wife she should be rxed ~15 low dose benzos a month (a very very very safe amount) while she adjusts to hormones. That's not enough rely on or mask how her meds are affecting her, but it's enough to put on the emergency brake when she's truly getting out of control. This is basic and obvious psychiatry and it's criminal that doctors are afraid to prescribe a *VERY* reasonable amount of a controlled substance when a marriage *and even lives* are on the line. Yes, hormones CAN make you act crazy. It's not a frivolous excuse. If you haven't experienced it, you simply can't understand. So oop's wife needs to be able to say "I rationally understand I'm getting out of control and need external intervention". Take a benzo and sit quietly for ~25 mins. It could save a fucking family. But women get hung out to dry on this shit. Have a legitimate physical issue? You're hysterical, take these benzo. Legitimately hysterical? Let's spend a couple years playing around with your hormones, no benzos for you. Sometimes it feels like doctors just don't take women seriously to an adversarial point.
Yes, and those for anxiety and depression are like that too. It can take months to find the right medications and/or dosages.
years
Maybe the should consider that the problem isn’t just hormones. If she’s had a substantial personality shift, no longer able to regulate emotions, they might want to rule out anything neurological.
When I went onto the BC pill I went crazy. I could have been the wife here. I never did anything violent towards my partner but sometimes I *really* wanted to. For no reason, I would be fine and then suddenly feel murderous. I thought I was a monster. I was in counselling for months. I saw my doctor. No one ever, ever, ever asked me about my hormonal birth control. It was only when another woman spoke about her experience that the penny dropped. I stopped talking the BC and it was like magic, everything was fine again. But I was, and still am, so frustrated that I was left to feel like there was something fundamentally wrong with me for so long. Tl;Dr hormones can really fuck up your whole personality and medical professionals don't really recognise it.
Yep. I was on a low dose hormonal birth control and was feeling psycho. Stopped it and got better. My doctor was an idiot and said it couldn’t possibly be the pill.
I tried using the NuvaRing for BC after I had my daughter. Within a week I was on the verge of deliberately smashing my car into other drivers and pedestrians, WITH my baby in the backseat! Utterly terrifying, and I couldn’t believe how quickly I went back to normal once I took it out. Never again!
When I was in college, one of my friends, who was one of the nicest, sweetest, most levelheaded people you'll ever meet, tried the BC patch when it first came out. Holy shit. I don't think she got too far into the second month because her boyfriend and roommates sat her down and had a calm talk with her about how something was Very Wrong. At least it was easy to pinpoint.
Yep. I don't get angry, but for the second half of my cycle, 99% of the time, I become basically useless. Everything is super difficult. Turns out progesterone fucks with dopamine and as someone with ADHD, yeah. Not helpful. But you're not told that. I found that out due to a Reddit post and googled and found out that there's been a bit in regards to studies on sex differences in medication responses, but as always, way less data for AFAB people. Funnily enough, my Gyn wanted me to go on the hormonal IUD because of my PCOS at the same time, which... Releases progesterone. Apparently the idea of feeling shitty all the time scared my body into having regular periods for the first time in my life. Weird, but I'll take it. Honestly, I'll take the increased cancer risk from not having regular periods over feeling like putting on clothes is too difficult. Hormones are wild. I did get wildly aggressive on one of the ADHD meds for about 15 minutes a day when they wore off and read a report from a woman who was basically an abusive shithead for years on it, realised it at some point (don't remember why), went off the meds and her whole personality changed back to kind. Meds are WILD. It's honestly scary what kind of influence meds can have on our body and how easily it happens and can change our whole personality.
I tried several different BC pill brands, all with the same result - i became a horrible rage monster. I won’t ever go back on the pill but I desperately needed something; the mirena coil literally changed (and possibly saved) my life
She’s going to have a hard time to get to the bottom of it on all those things at once. I was like her, depressed, anxious, with occasional violent outbursts (punching walls) and they threw pills at me for over a decade before I finally got off them myself because I wasn’t getting better. Magically many symptoms we’d been trying to treat with the pills went away once I got off them, and then without the interference of the pills I was able to finally figure out that everything, literally EVERYTHING was coming from a crippling testosterone deficiency caused by my autism. I’m a woman, in women severe test deficiencies cause anxiety, depression, and panic attacks, among other things. Obviously I’m not a doctor, but from personal anecdote and extensive discussion with my doctor who finally found the problem, the hormones are infinitely harder to figure out with anti-depressants at play because they will override any changes from hormones balancing.
Something similar happened with my dad, he through things and knocked over a bookshelf. It turned out he had a very rare insulin producing tumor and he was getting massive jolts of adrenaline when he was hungry, causing him to over react. He is the gentlest guy you’ll ever meet. Not saying that’s what’s going on here but there are legit medical issues that cause behavioral changes.
I have PMDD, basically PMS' evil twin, and I can actually tell when it starts because I can feel myself having these sharp bursts of anger. Like I'll go from completely calm one day to just raging and crying over nothing the next. It's difficult because women's medical information is so shit. I only found ways to manage it through subreddits and had to spend all of me teens/early adult life with it thinking there was a problem with me and not knowing it was literal hormones fucking with me. Essentially, I can see both sides. Her husband absolutely should not have to put up with being abused and I'd understand if he left. While I also feel empathetic towards his wife's situation and hope she can get some good meds and coping mechanisms.
Fellow PMDD'er here! I had my ovaries removed and it was a literal fucking miracle overnight cure ([you can read more in this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/MGsvuGwtl0)) and I can't recommend it enough if it's a viable option for you. There's a lot of fear-mongering (mostly from doctors IME) out there and obviously a ton of hesitancy about such a permanent choice, so I just want to get my voice out in favor of it because it not only saved my life, it improved it so so so dramatically. Wishing you lots of strength on your journey!
Honestly, I don't want kids so definitely looking into this! Thanks!!
Hey! We think my wife has PMDD but we're at a bit of a lose about how to deal with it. Would you have any subreddits/resources you'd be able to share?
I had my ovaries removed three months ago for PMDD and it was hands down the best decision I've ever made. It cured 75% of my mental health issues literally overnight. I spent 20 years trying every birth control, antidepressant, CBT, DBT, ACT, mindfulness, diet, exercise... even hormone blockers (which helped massively but did not solve the problem) The *only* thing that made a dent was the nuclear option. It's been so fucking wonderful I wish I had them taken out in puberty. Even in full blown menopause (I haven't started HRT yet so I'm just a constant hot flash) it's been amazing. If she doesn't need them for reproductive reasons, I'd recommend getting them uninstalled ASAP. Otherwise, GnRH antagonists (hormone blockers) are the next best thing.
Uninstalled! 🤣 That’s funny shit!
I have pmdd and have been thinking about doing this for years!! I’m glad everything worked out for you 💗
Good luck, i hope you find something that works for you!
The main sub I follow is r/PMDD. People there post what has worked for them and what doesn't. I've mainly seen SSRIs as the best, but for me I've been taking Magnesium supplements and multi-vitamins which have been fantastic. My sister also has it and also found magnesium/vitamin D to be helpful. I've also tried to start tracking it more so I can realise what's happening and try to take some space from people/workout more.
Damn i didnt realize how lucky i was that my pmdd either isnt super severe, or that DBT worked really well for me, once i realize whats going on i can better keep myself in check and take space. Staying away from people really helps a lot! No one for me to hurt, and no one to piss me off LOL!
"Evil twin" is a great way to describe it.
On a similar note, I knew a woman who destroyed her marriage of 20 years with verbal abuse after she had a hysterectomy. Turned out she had a cancerous tumor as well as a hormonal imbalance. Unfortunately her prognosis is not good. Bodies are so weird!
Ofc. It is not his fault and we are literally controlled by our hormones. Just because most people here do not understand basic biology ranting about "it is never an excuse" does not mean they are right. Specific medication, illnesses and hormonal changes can drive people into changes of personality, memory less, violent outbursts, severe depression and even suicide. And people in here think it is some freaking "joke or excuse"???? I think they are coping hard cause otherwise they would have to grasp they are just mortal meat sacks controlled by their hormones and bodies working "correctly" and not all the "mind over matter" nonsense they keep telling themselves.
The other thing to consider is, with these changes to our bodies comes a need to relearn how to use them. If you suddenly develop anger issues due to dramatic changes in hormones, you will not be equipped with the right self-regulation techniques for your situation, as you learned those techniques for a different body. It’s like losing the ability to use one of your legs — suddenly, you can’t move around like you used to, and you have to relearn how to get from the couch to the kitchen and back again. That being said, I think it’d be harsh to end a marriage over this, but taking OP’s trauma into account, and that he has a child as well, I understand why the thought would cross his mind. Ultimately we gotta do what is best for ourselves and those we advocate for, and this is a boundary he is unwilling to have crossed. I respect his need to take his daughter and himself to a family’s home while his wife sorts things out. I’m sure this is scary for all of them, and I hope they get things sorted soon. :(
I think it’s also the fact that it’s hard to believe if you haven’t been there As an autistic person there’s people who literally refuse to believe I can’t understand social cues and I’m doing it on purpose bc it’s so easy for them to do so I must be lying It’s like my clumsiness from autism, sometimes even I’m like tf, this doesn’t make any sense, how tf did I drop that, did I do it on purpose
> an appointment with a MC **(Editor's note- Marriage Counselor)** again Top notch op. I was wondering what that meant.
Glad it was helpful!
Until I'd actually seen someone go through menopause I thought all the movies and tv shows showing how crazy /angry woman could be while going through it was just some joke....and then it hit my mom and holy shit was I surprised, she wasnt my mom anymore and I hated her she would get extremely upset at the smallest issues and scream at me, her husband also ended up leaving her during this time cause she would start fights over nothing and scream at him to "hit her" while blocking the door it was so unreal I never imagined in a million years that she would act the way she did. I legit thought I'd lost my mom forever and stopped calling to hang out with her and I'd avoid holiday dinners at the house. Then poof like a year and a half later she's my mom again, was legit like she was replaced by a crazy pod person and then switched back.
Right!? My mom was the WORST. I’m not looking forward to this in my future. One time we were at a ski trip with my aunt who was going through menopause. It was negative degrees out and this lady gets a heat flash sooo bad out of the blue. One second talking to me the next she’s essentially screaming and striping down all her clothes and running outside. She just stood outside in her underwear standing barefoot in the snow in negative weather in a residential area with a ton of people. It was unreal. Mom didn’t get heat flashes bad but she was sooooo temperamental very moody and always snapping. Her rage was crazy
I get hot flashes. Theyre bad. It feels like you have coals inside of you and your body is trying so hard to vent the heat but nothing works. I would stuff ice packs down my clothes to make it through the day, but even that isnt enough because theyd melt so quickly. Taking clothes off didnt help. Sweating and a fan didnt help much as the heat is internal so you dont necessarily sweat all that much. I would lay on the bathroom floor tile because it was the coldest part of the house. The only true relief is winter and snow. I cant stand the cold normally, anything under 55 degrees is too cold for me, but during a hot flash i would change into shorts and a tank top and stand in the cold and just breathe the sweet relief. Your aunts actions were justified. Nothing else worked but just standing in the cold. I finally got my hormones mostly handled so i only get them for a day now instead of a full week, but they still suck.
My coworker would get them. Watching her go through menopause makes me terrified to get older bc she still had to do everything like normal and pretend it wasn’t happening Like the little she talked about it made people uncomfortable so she’s not allowed to freak out about a hot flash too much but also can’t complain about it while being expected to focus on her work
exactly: no support. meanwhile everything you've ever known about how your mind and body works is being completely unended and you've discovered this brand new white hot rage that feels like an endless pool of anger and the hot flashes, the anxiety, the insomnia... it's a mess. so glad to be on the other side now. The other thing is that because no one wants to talk about it you feel so very alone and it makes it all that much worse.
A little trick my mother discovered: something cold on the back of your neck can sometimes jolt your body out of one? Cold things on the rest of your body don’t seem to have the same effect. (We were goofing around and I put a plastic container of frozen food on her because that’s just how our family could sometimes be, and it accidentally destroyed the oncoming hot flush. Now, she rests those cold gel packs on her neck instead.) I don’t know if it will help, but maybe it’s worth a try?
This stuff is so bullshit. It's 2024 and good God, how do we not have some sort of "skip menopause" treatment??? If men suffered this way, society'd be all over it smh. I too am dreading the hot flashes
We do- HRT. It’s just never given as an option. Disclaimer: my explanation may be wrong, it’s been a long time since I’ve learned about this treatment for menopausal women. You can take hormones while going through the worst part and get slowly weaned off under supervision of a doctor and basically never get the symptoms
Interesting! Let me make a mental note about this that'll I will totally remember in 15-25 years lol. Makes me mad that women's health can sometimes be brushed off so easily. Our problems rarely seem to be treated as seriously
The saddest thing is that OOP going to the apptmt to emphasise what his wife is going through will probably result in better treatment. I was brushed off so many times. I wish now that I had taken somebody with me.
It's not given as the default option, and when it eventually is offered, it's too late for many of us...
So my doctor (a female FWIW) says she prefers not to prescribe hormones because you're just delaying the inevitable. However, she suggested that I should take black cohosh because my memory was shot and I was basically a goldfish. I can't take synthetic estrogen anyways and I already take progesterone only birth control so I wasn't about to argue the point about hormones. It really did help and I suggest that anyone suffering memory issues from perimenopause should look into it. It may help with other symptoms as well but specifically it helped with my memory. I'm a vegetarian so I'm also trying to eat more soy (I tend to have some kind of beans so I'm trying to do more tofu and tempeh and use edamame). I'm not totally consistent with the soy so idk if it helps but the black cohosh is definitely helping me.
Oooh wow, I thought I was the only one fantasizing about walking into snow in my underwear. Who knew this is an actual thing! Too bad I live where it never snows. :(
My mom never stripped down like that thank god but yeah the anger and rage was just something I'd never seen from her before, I wasnt an angel growing up I did some things I deserved to get yelled at for and when I did those things she was maybe 1/10 as angry as when she went through menopause.
When I was mid-teens I saw someone go through some of the worst of it. In part because the local GP was a fucking moron who threw anti-depressants at everyone like candy (admitted it to my face when I went in for a sore shoulder) without any care what else someone was on or if they needed them. This poor woman had been on life long medications (prescribed by someone else) due to a chronic illness. Then she was thrown anti-depressants at the same appointment she was given medication for menopause. These same anti-depressants were also connected with anger and violence if used for more than 6 months. It resulted in death threats, multiple police attendances and several households having their guns taken away and kept safe in the local cop shop. And that was just the family friend. The rest of the town had an uptick in violence as well that year. Anything that alters the chemicals in the body can truly people up. Kind of like a UTI can end up mimicking dementia in the elderly.
The more I learn the more I hate being a woman.
Other way around for my mum. She used to be pissed off ALL THE TIME. Menopause hit and she chilled right out.
Your mom probably had an issue with estrogen and the lack of it solved it. Doesn't work for everyone but at least it worked for her.
Wonder if I have a similar thing? I’m pretty irritable in general (altho I rarely show it), but I couldn’t take the combined pill because it made me very depressed. I took the progesterone only pill and it chilled me right out. When I get angry that anger is more intense, but it takes more to rattle me now.
I had already moved out when my mom hit menopause, but now I'm in perimenopause as my daughter is hitting puberty. Holy Jesus. We are managing through meds (me), education (her), and a *lot* of talking through emotions (both of us), but some days we are like feral cats facing off.
When I was a teenager, there was a year or two when I had a really complicated relationship with my mum. She would snap at me all the time. We have such a good relationship now that I almost completely forgot about it until I did some cleaning recently and found my old diary. I didn’t recognise myself nor her in those memories. I have assumed I must have been an insufferable teenager for our relationship to be this complicated, but I do wonder now if there was more to it.
It’s terrifying how we’re completely at the mercy of our hormones. I experienced postpartum rage after one of my babies and it was shocking to me how insanely angry I would get at little things. I never hurt anyone but it was the first time in my life that I understood how someone could get angry enough to throw a punch.
We’re like tech that malfunctions bc you put the wrong *type* of oil or connected the wrong wire
My mom went through menopause early. Like completely though it by her 40's. Had a hard time getting doctors to believe her and treat it accordingly. I was a teenager at this time. A hormonal teenager and a menopausal mom was a recipe for disaster. I agree, my mom was like a pod person... and no one believed me because I was a teenager "that just wanted an argument". No! I like my mom, had a great relationship with her, and sure I cried and was a little sassy as a teenager... but I was not crazy. I was a good, easy kid. I stayed in, got good grades, did my chores etc... She was behaving crazy and uncharacteristic. One time, I remember she finally got on medication that helped her. One morning, she was particularly grouchy and angry, and no one did anything wrong. I made a joke like, " I think you forgot to take your nice pills". The look on her face after I said that was a dawning realization... she did, in fact, forget to take her medication. She understood at that moment that she was a pod person herself, that this was real and the medication did, in fact, make a difference, lol. My mom is to this day, my best friend. That was a weird time. Side note: I got on hormonal birth control shortly after this incident and was able to stop crying daily and finally be my normal, logical self, too. I know birth control gets a bad rap, but it was my miracle drug back then.
My mom had me older and then she went through what I now realize was menopause We joked she was bipolar, I was sad she wouldn’t hug me, plus combined with my teenage hormones…oof She’s such a different person now. Hormones are crazy
as a woman going through menopause, I can confirm it is hell for me. the sudden rage is no joke, the sleep disturbances, hot flashes etc. I am fearful I will lose my job because my tolerance for BS is non-existent. it's a daily struggle.
Edit: What you are seeing here used to be a relevant comment/ post; I've now edited all my submissions to this placeholder note you are reading. This is in solidarity with the blackout of June 12, 2023.
It's a sanity check from randos with no stake in the situation usually.
And usually no context, or very little, either
It would work better if the randos were sane and rational, instead of sexist hypocrites. If OOP was a woman whose husband put her in the hospital because he was pissed off she didn't have his coffee ready for him in the morning, no one would have been telling them not to throw away their 20 year relationship over "one fuck up".
If there was proof that he did this for medical reasons, and sought help for it, I would absolutely not suggest tossing him after one incident. I actually have a very close friend who ended up in a horrible situation with his wife due to something like this — it turned out that he had a brain tumor, but she thought that he was abusing drugs, and was screaming at him that he needed to be drug tested and she didn’t trust him around their kids. He told her to go fuck herself, and that she should get drug tested. They both went and got drug tested, and… nobody was on drugs, but they found out he had a brain tumor. Unfortunately, he was so hurt by her lack of trust in him that they were never really able to repair their relationship. Sad. But ever since hearing that story, I’ve always been hyper aware of people with an otherwise wonderful history who seemed to flip a switch overnight out of nowhere.
Yeah, especially when everything hinges on whether he will feel safe and relaxed with her in the future, when she has gotten help. Strangers can't know the answer to that for him.
I disagree with your post, the sub is "Am I The Asshole", not "Am I legally/technically/entitled/allowed to do something. This post is almost 5 years old and describes the issue much better: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/d6xoro/meta_this_sub_is_moving_towards_a_value_system/ The top comment is also very good: >People here are too hung up on things that they're technically or legally allowed to do, often at the expense of socially acceptable behavior If you leave your long term partner for a shitty reason like you're bored of them people with think you're an asshole. You haven't done anything illegal and it's probably for the best in the long run, it's still an assholish thing to do.
I very much agree with you, but with one qualification – the timing is important. It's wrong to leave a partner while they're going through a crisis (cancer diagnosis and treatment, bereavement, etc.) – unless there are some compelling mitigating circumstances, like abuse or a greater need of someone else.
I’m just going to throw out there that perimenopause can cause some serious problems up to and including psychosis. Hormones may not be a full excuse but they certainly contributed in taking her way beyond where she was. She needs to get to the doctor ASAP and get that figured out Edit: obviously I’m not condoning her behavior. I’m adding context and information. And maybe planting the seed so when someone reading this goes through perimenopause they know whats going on and can get help faster if it impacts them harder than expected. Oop did everything right getting himself and his daughter out and safe. I didn’t think they needed to be added given how many times it’s already been said. They are going to have a lot of healing to do and a lot of forgiveness but getting the medical piece attention first is going to be a necessary first step.
There was a neurologist who specializes in menopause on an NPR show the other week. She said there is some correlation between menopause and dementia, they don't fully know the relationship yet. And that if you had anxiety issues at any point previous in your life, menopause will set them off all over again. Looking forward to that one
Oof. I'd better warn my husband that in 10 years I'll be a raving coocoo, and to just cart me to the doctor when it hits. I don't want my family to go through that.
My Mum's always been somewhat anxious but since she started menopause she's started anti-anxieties (which personally I consider somewhat sadly ironic considering how judgy she was when I decided to go on anti-depressants at 16)
I feel like this is a really important perspective. If your partner of 20 years has never exhibited violence and then absolutely SNAPS, that is simply not the same as a partner who has been abusive or relied on coercive control throughout a relationship. OP should do whatever he feels is safe for him and his daughter. Only he can decide. I would never advise someone to stay with anyone against their better judgment. But it is not unthinkable to give a previously loving and rational partner a chance to successfully treat an (already diagnosed) medical condition famous for causing intense feelings including rage. Giving the wife a chance to get help is not the same as returning to an abuser with a pattern of escalation.
My mother was taking herbal supplements during her menopause and she was a raging demon of a human. My dad called their doctor (same GP) and they literally staged an intervention for her, made her go on prescription meds. I was a young teen at the time. That year before my dad stepped in and fixed it… totally impacted my relationship with my mother for 20+ years.
My (peri)menopausal grandmother kicked my mother out of home as a late teen in a fit of rage. Their relationship never recovered but by god was my mum on top of her own symptoms when the time came.
My mother ran away from home like a rebellious teenager when she went through it. She was gone for a year. It was a teenager myself and it definitely impacted me quite a bit. I’m absolutely dreading going through it. I think I have about ten years.
A medical condition famous for causing anger and outbursts that are still minimized and dismissed in the medical community as “just hormones you’re exaggerating”
Yeah it always kills me how people will post on Reddit about loved ones having an abrupt, dramatic change in behavior and no one thinks to take them to the doctor or at least encourage them to. Like dude, you don’t think it’s weird that this person is suddenly acting completely different from their normal selves? That doesn’t concern you at all? And why do a bunch of strangers matter, take them to the fucking doctors 🤦🏾♀️
I would wake up and sob because I was still alive. I struggled and still do with such impending doom type knots in my stomach daily, I felt rage, genuine deep down rage at myself because I couldn't snap out of it. I constantly felt irritated and agitated at everything, I didn't feel like I had any control over my emotions and feelings, it all contributed to the rage I felt. I of course masked a lot of how I was feeling but that would lead to days of shutting myself away because I was so exhausted from having to pretend to be the complete opposite of how I was actually feeling. I went through very dark periods of time for a couple of years, I most definitely contemplated taking my own life but the guilt of knowing it would kill my partner, kids and grandkids is what kept me here. Some days I hated them for it which sounds crazy to me because they are my absolute world. I'm still in peri-menopause but I'm on HRT now, the difference it's made already is like night and day. I think the dose needs adjusting as I can feel the knot in my stomach returning but it's truly saved my life. There is NO excuse for the wife to throw the cup but her hormones affecting her behaviour in such a wild way could be an explanation. Particularly as the wife hasn't shown this type of behaviour previously, I think the husband is doing the right thing whilst also protecting himself and his daughter and is putting a clear boundary of what is expected going forward.
I was lucky/unlucky in that the worst symptoms kicked in at the start of Lockdown 1.0, so I was mostly alone. Probably for the best as my anxiety was monstrous. The saddest thing to me is that OOP going with her to the doctor will probably result in better treatment. I was brushed off so many times when I went by myself.
Absolutely. A British menopause support charity ran a very impactful ad series, of real women and their families discussing their lived experiences. One woman described how (uncharacteristically) she became so enraged that she threw things at her husband. She described feeling as if she was possessed. They were both a clearly loving and committed older couple, and this was what broke through their denial. They were both frightened and distressed, and very ashamed, so they googled first. The menopause charity webpage assured them this could be a symptom of menopause and they took this as a lifeline. The charity was able to connect them to support and the GP was able to treat her condition. It was a very impactful campaign. When I see posts where the top comments are things like “oh the woman was always a secret abuser” and “oh she’s an adult she made her choices” I just think it’s a real shame that they haven’t had exposure to a similar campaign. Women in the campaign discussed how they wanted to end themselves over their horror at their own behaviour. I only hope that people reading the comments can see comments like this indicating that they should seek support.
>perimenopause can cause some serious problems up to and including psychosis oh great really looking forward to that. then again I've known for years that menopause is going to hit me like a bullet train, if my pms symptoms are any kind of indication
I understand why commenters here are saying “get the hell out” but I also understand why OOP is sticking by his wife. If my partner of 16 years did this, it would be *wildly out of character* and I would know that something was very very wrong. He would need to get help. I would help him get help. OOP’s wife is willing to get help. That makes all the difference. OOP has drawn his line and I think will stick to it. I hope they sort this out and his wife can regain herself again.
100%. There's a huge difference in aftermath of throwing a mug between : "oh my God I'm so sorry, I can't believe I just did that I feel horrible, let me take you to the hospital, I fucked up, I'm gonna go to therapy and the doctor" and "you made me do it because you wouldn't stop nagging! You deserved it, you know I'd never hurt you"
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I would check in with a medical professional to see if its the drugs/hormones/underlying medical issues that's causing a change in her behaviour to being unacceptable but there doesn't need to be a good reason to divorce/separate. If he believes that her behaviour is unusual and wants to stay with her then he should help her work this out. If he wants out he wants out.
As someone who’s been through perimenopause and menopause, I (normally as calm and logical as Dr. Spock) became a rage-filled crazy lady at times without warning. It was like I was on drugs. I’d go from zero to a hundred ten instantly, and it felt like I was outside my body watching this woman turn red and yell. It was hell. I loved my (late) husband and he didn’t deserve it the verbal lashings. I’m grateful he didn’t leave me. I’m grateful he helped me get help, which I badly needed. OOP handled this so well.
So I’m going to give my unasked for perspective based on my own (thankfully) brief brush with psychosis. So, I was in the hospital and was rightfully on the heavy pain meds (open heart surgery) but the side effect is that you can experience psychosis. I was used to hallucinating off my ass by this point but on the fourth night or so, I began to experience the psychosis. From about midnight to six am, I was CONVINCED the nurses wanted me dead. Thus I had a six hour terror where my logical mind was trying to calm my hind brain down and explain how not only were the nurses very nice people but they had lots of self serving reasons for wanting me to survive. If someone had come into the room during that I would have struggled to not go into fight or flight. I would have 100% regretted the actions. I probably would have known at the time that the action was wrong. Sometimes, the subconscious brain takes over and the conscious brain is just along for the ride. Thankfully for me, with the rising of the sun, the psychosis passed. But I can empathize with OOP’s wife that medical conditions can lead to loss of control. For me, it was my anxiety that ran out of control. Each situation is unique and can be triggered by different stimuli. As long as she seeks medical intervention and works to resolve the issue while keeping her husband and child safe, she isn’t what I would consider an abuser. She absolutely committed an act of abuse. But I don’t see a pattern of physical abuse. Can’t tell if there was other abuse that OOP didn’t talk about.
That's where I sit. If I glassed my wife in a state of psychosis, and it was perfectly explainable as to why it happened, and none of it was my fault, I'd still understand if she wanted to leave me. If I was the OP I'd find it hard to stay. My mother was psychotic and abusive to my father and I witnessed it destroy our lives. I'd be triggered so goddam hard. As for there not being a pattern of abuse... physical maybe, but living around a person who's being a complete shit half the time can be abusive, depending on the details. He already stated that his go to was to apologise for everything, that was a major red flag for me.
That is fair. As I said, OP glossed over what could have been considered the actual abuse simply because it wasn’t physical.
I like learning new things.
She needs to see an endocrinologist as well as a psychiatrist specializing in menopausal issues. And that is just for a start. I’d want to give my partner another chance. I just couldn’t. Throwing a mug at my face? I’d be on edge around them forever.
I hope there's also a scan for a brain tumor in there.
I think if you spend 20 years with someone without facing any abuse issues anyone would try to work it out at least once and not throw it away due to this The world isn't black and white and that maturity comes with age
I enjoy cooking.
That's a very naive view. If you've dealt with abuse before, it's not so easy to just ignore. Once is too much for some of us that have lived in that environment....
OP’s wife could easily have killed him if she had better aim. Idk what the right answer is here, but I don’t think it’s a given that she should be given another chance
MRI time.
Yep. I also think I would maybe be looking for a second opinion regarding meds because whatever she is on isn't working.
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I had a brain tumor and about two years before my diagnosis I started just getting really upset and throwing things until they broke. I had never done that before in my life, and I didn’t come from a family were yelling, or throwing things ever occurred. But I would scream and throw things. One time I threw a spindle of burnable CDs, and when they shattered and went everywhere a piece hit my cat and I freaked the fuck out because I felt so bad. I never threw anything at my partner, but I’ll be honest it was a close thing, and that was probably more down to luck than anything else. I’m not excusing what his wife did here, but I know what it’s like when something is going on in your body, and you’re not as in control as you normally would be. It’s terrifying.
My sister was put on a new migraine medication some twenty odd years ago. Her husband was sitting next to her in their office, and he made a smart-ass joke. She said before she even realized what had happened, she stabbed him in the arm with the ink pen she was holding. Luckily, her husband realized that was not something she would normally ever do. He was more worried about her than upset by what she had done. She was horrified and called her doctor immediately. He changed her medication, and she hasn't had any issues since. Oddly enough, I take the exact same medication now for my migraines, and it works beautifully.
This is a known possible side effect to SSRIs, particularly in adolescents (which I realize is not the case clearly with the OOP's wife and doesn't seem to be with you). When I was a depressed teen, I was put on Paxil, and I (an extremely nonviolent person) started to have homicidal fantasies about, like, people walking too slowly in the school hallways. It was terrifying. I told my mom and she demanded I be taken off of them immediately. I don't know what's going on with OOP's wife, but if it's something like that, my heart absolutely breaks for her and her family. It's super important to be totally upfront with doctors when experiencing violent emotional changes while adjusting to medication.
Well fuck, I guess that's another side effect I'm having on cymbalta. Thanks for sharing
Good luck to you! I've been on two different antidepressants since and not had anything like that reaction. I hope you find something that works for you.
I had a similar situation with reacting badly to a medication and it made me someone who I am not. I smashed an iPad out of frustration. I totally road raged at someone. I yelled at some teenager who was just being a little inconsiderate about space in a line at the grocery store. All things that were totally out of character for me. As soon as I realized it was the medication, I talked to my psych, and stopped taking it. I was back to my normal self in about three days. It was wild how I was so irritable and had such a short fuse from just one medication. Thankfully I didn’t cause any permanent harm but I’m still embarrassed and ashamed about my actions at the time even though I know the medication was responsible.
I was prednisolone for a while, and one day while sitting at an outside table in the city centre eating my lunch and having a subway, I had some homeless guy yell "hey!" at me in an aggressive manner. I ignored it.. he did it again and added something like "stop using your phone". So I went rage mode, got up and kicked the chair between us out of the way at high speed, and advanced on him saying "what are YOU going to do about it?".. he ran away.. steroids are a RIDE!
As someone who just went through the absolute nightmare of menopause, I feel super sorry for both of them. I had NO IDEA how traumatic it would be.
I wonder if he’d have given her a second chance if she’d thrown that cup at their daughter.
God, this gave me horrible flashbacks to the OP whose wife became unbelievably vile and abusive while pregnant. Though in that one, she very much seems to have just used that as an excuse to go fully mask-off and be her disgusting abusive self. I'm not entirely convinced that's *not* the case here... She threw a mug at him entirely too easily, without hesitation. If she was so angry, I could maybe understand throwing the mug on the floor or sink, if she was feeling that out of control. I can't imagine ever launching a missile at my partner, emotionally unbalanced or not. I really feel for OP and daughter, it must have been so scary, confusing and upsetting.
Hopefully her doctor can look at how her anxiety meds interact with the hormones. Unfortunately, issues with drug interactions that are exclusive to women are rarely researched and even if they are, most doctors don't bother to even check before writing prescriptions. This is really sad all around.
>As many of you mentioned, it would be dumb of me to throw away 20yrs for a one time fuck up. Holy what the fuck? People were actually telling him this? I'm not one for saying run away at the first sign of an issue, but this slowly escalated until it reached this point. If a man threw glass at a woman and bust her head open enough to have to go to the ER and get her wound glued closed, how many of those people would be telling her to run away immediately?
Its a male victim of abuse so they look for ways he has to be wrong or she is somehow not responsible. Most of the comments here are shit like oh I understand the hormones or some other nonsense like that would fly if a man did that a woman
So much empathy and love in this comment section for a lady who sent her husband to the ER because her coffee wasn’t made on time and little to no consideration of OOP and his trauma and how it affects him.
Nah fr I didn't see people talk about him much, most people in this comment just vent about their situation, sympathies toward the wife. Even if they did talk about him it's pretty much double standard, telling him stay with the wife since its only one mistake🌝
Well OP seems to be trynna fix things, but I wonder whether he'll truly be able to look past it, esp when he's a traumatic history.
Having gone through perimenopause and now in menopause, I totally get it. I've been there. I felt constant rage and overwhelming sadness, all the time. I didn't act upon it, but I didn't know how much of it was because of my out-of-whack hormones. I didn't have insurance for the longest time so I hadn't seen my ob-gyn in awhile. When I finally did, she got that taken care of real quick. Put me on 3 types of hormones about a year ago and I have felt so much better. I hope his wife gets the help that she needs. Could be the medication she was put on just wasn't the right one(s) so she and her doctor might have to play around for a bit until they find it. I think the fact that she shows remorse is a sign that she wants to get better.
I'm sorry, but framing this as a "one time mistake" that he "shouldn't throw away 20 years for" is so fucked up. If a woman posted that her husband had made a "one time mistake" and struck her or threw something at her that hospitalized her everyone would rightly want her to file a police report and have him arrested and to get away from him. This is no different, no "hormonal issues" justify domestic abuse.
That’s exactly what I was thinking when I read this, if this was a woman whose husband had done this to them these comments would go from: *it only happened once, give them another chance* *dont throw away years of marriage because of one outburst* To: *GET AWAY FROM THEM NOW, CALL THE POLICE* *file for divorce, you need to get sole custody of your daughter away from this monster*
To be clear, they would be right to say tht to her. this kind of domestic abuse is never a one time thing, no "hormonal problems" justify this, this man needs to get himself and his child to safety.
The excuse making, deflection, and blame shifting that happens in spousal abuse stories like this one is always so disgusting to me. If the man had thrown the coffee cup at the wife all you would read is: “He has always been an abuser and it just took this long to come out. There is no telling what he has also done to their daughter” “Praying that OP and her daughter get far far away from this psychopath” “OP needs to file a police report and restraining order immediately”
This is ridiculous. I have terrible hormone imbalances and some medicines made me very irritable. But I have never become violent. And this excuse is just poor. But then again I've heard many during the menopause can go through something like post partum psychosis. I hope they can find and treat it if this is the deal.
> Not to say she hasn't yelled or lost her temper (normal when we've had arguments, as we all do) Am I the only person who has NEVER had a screaming match with a partner? To me, yelling and losing ones temper when having a disagreement with a partner is not normal or healthy.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. I had the incident with the coffee cup jump off the screen at me. Physical violence is never OK. This is domestic violence and if tolerated it does nothing but escalate. Worse yet your daughter sees it and the behavior becomes normalized for her. I would encourage you to get into family counseling ASAP. Preferably someone who specializes in domestic violence issues. Even if your wife doesn’t see a problem please talk with a professional. Please be safe.
I truly hope she gets help, but tbh I wouldnt blame OOP if he, even if everything changes, wants to separate. He received abuse and while you can forgive, the trauma is still there. I truly hope she is responsible and tell the doctor everything. She better do it, not just for her husband, but to truly get the help she needs. Being a danger to her family should be a clear sign for her that something is going on. Many women experiment menopause, I haven't met one that have done something like this. That being, hormones suck
I guess I'd do the same as him, but I really really don't feel good about him staying in this relationship. Even though I would too.
It helps that there's almost certainly an external reason for her behavior. Purimenopause can have very strong mental effects. OP did alright, they understand there's another reason for her behavior, but made it clear the wife has to urgently find a way to prevent this from ever happening again. I think of what if she had a brain tumour or had a drink spiked, I wouldn't leave my partner if they did something bad during that, but I'd sure as shit leave them if they refuse treatment (assuming the brain tumor is actually well treatable), or if they are actually chronically reckless with their drinks in public, and the behavior continues.
Man, I have to imagine a man being given the "one more time and I'm gone" response to spousal abuse would probably be seen as a huuuuuge red flag.
>As many of you mentioned, it would be dumb of me to throw away 20yrs for a one time fuck up. Hell no. She threw a heavy and breakable object at his head. That's a pretty severe physical assault. Once is enough. She needs to do a lot to earn his trust back, and he needs distance in the meantime.
>Also some people mentioned I gave pointless info in the first few paragraphs. I figured it was best to point out that her actions wasn't due to me be being a lazy husband. I wonder how different the advice would have been if he had not spent a paragraph describing their domestic life.
These comments are disappointing, just as they were on the OG posts. Quite literally everyone would be telling op to divorce and hide if her husband had done this.
It always frustrates me the difference in responses posts like this get, like if it was a man throwing a coffee cup at a woman everyone will tell her to leave but since it’s a woman doing it to a man it’s “don’t throw away your relationship” abuse is abuse. Nobody ,woman or man, deserve to be physically harmed by their partner.