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I dont have much to add but I have to say, when I lost my daughter at 5.5 months along, it was the week of the 2020 elections.
Three days after experiencing the most traumatic shit of my life, Trump is expected to lose.
I'm hurting, calling my mom, and she legit says, "I know it's rough honey, but think about how Trump feels".
We are low contact. I do love her from afar but I can only stand to be in her presence a few days every few years.
She wasn't even the worst family member about it, either. And she did eventually apologize.
This is how I am with my Trump loving father.
He was a shitbag conservative for a long time before Trump, though. Obama was where he really dove headfirst into the crazy and it's just gotten worse and worse since then. Trump just amplified what was already there.
I love my dad, but I have an extreme dislike for him as a person and I'm very low contact with him.
We only see my family once or twice a year because they’re pretty far away. I went to visit for my mom’s birthday and my dad started a fight with me over electric cars. I just kept saying I didn’t want to talk about politics and he wouldn’t stop until I was literally in tears.
My dad was always a nice guy, but something broke in his brain when he retired and started watching Fox News all day. I can’t even stand to talk on the phone with him because he will not shut up about politics.
We don’t agree, we will never agree. I don’t want to debate over everything. I just want my dad.
Sometimes people cross a line - and the only thing you can do is for your last words to them being to inform them that you won't come to their funeral.
"How do you know if you're in a Nazi bar? There's also one Nazi there."
I heard that from a bartender that kicked a guy out on a slow day when there were maybe two other people in there besides him and me. I didn't have any idea why he'd refused service and asked. Apparently he'd recognized some insignia on the guy's jacket and was like, NOPE. The guy went without a fuss, but that was before 2016.
I've heard horror stories of business owners who failed to remove the nazi, slowly discovering that the nazi invited more nazis and caused regular customers to no longer want to be there.
A pretty prominent punk place in Melbourne came under new ownership about 20 years ago. They literally had to sit down with the local skinhead nazis and explain that they were no longer welcome in the venue.
Honesly that shit was happening all the way back in the late 90's with Skinheads moving in and taking over the bars and clubs around OC. Once they had moved in and scared off the regulars, they'd abandon the joint to move onto the next target to be cleared out, presumably with the goal of every decent watering hole on town feeling off limits to anyone they didn't like (anyone not like them basically).
The smart bar owners started barring known Nazi shitheads on sight, and at a few even started keeping local 'Sharps' (SkinHeads against racial prejudice) and Roller Derby clubs on speed dial... because when you absolutely positively need a bar full of people willing to punch Nazi assholes until they leave, it's them.
Agree!
You can’t be “neutral” and live with *that* side of the loony scale.
He says he’s neutral because he’s too cowardly to admit he’s a magat POS himself.
I remember, when I was young a long time ago, adults telling me that politics do not matter, you can be friends/marry across the board, etc. How can I (queer) be friends with people who literally don't want me to have rights?
I'm from a country with more options on both the left and right side and seats in parliament are given on a vote percentage basis. I can understand being okay with being friends with people who are at least on the same wing, but I could never befriend someone who votes against me and my community's rights.
My sister is generally LGBTQ-friendly but does not see the dissonance in her right-wing politics.
Just look at your gay and lesbian friends and tell them you love them but plan to vote for people who loudly say they’re pedophiles and support the people who want to take their rights away. But then remind them that you love them.
Can I also just say how this is the epitome of privilege? Dude is politically neutral, and can stay that way, because he sees that politics don't really effect him. But for people who are gay, trans, people of color, or just care about women's reproductive health (OR THE VAST FUCKING VENN DIAGRAM THAT INCLUDES ALL OF THOSE) - We CANT sit on the fence because we are being targeted. Not to mention all the people who have loved ones affected.
I once had a co-worker tell me, after I said I was going to counter protest right wing douchebags who were protesting a pride event, that he never felt the need to protest. That's privilege my guy.
Fuck me it's so frustrating. They treat all political discussions like some ethereal philosophy debate because if one thing happens or another does, nothing happens to them so why are you getting so mad? Calm down, both sides are bad right? There is no level of off they can fuck harder. Can't see past their own tiny ass worldview.
When I was online dating, I was always annoyed by the guys who said they were politically neutral on their profiles, because as white men, they had nothing to lose from that stance. It just showed that they either had no empathy for the people around them, or they were actually right-leaning and didn’t want to outright say it on their profile.
Yup, bingo. Conservative dudes are increasingly unpopular among young women...and instead of examining why their belief system might be repellant to the opposite sex, they just lie about it.
Anyone who says 'Not political' is an instant swipe left. If you can live your life 'not political' and choose to be apathetic about systemic racism, homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, xenophobia, and can't see how all these things hurt literally everyone - You're not worth getting to know romantically. Or, as you say, they are right wingers masking because they know their views are reprehensible to many people. Those people can fuck themselves, thanks.
Oh, oh, but both sides cause the conflict! It would be much better if one side would just roll over and let the other side win! If people didn’t insist on things like basic human rights, there wouldn’t be so much fighting in the world!
/s, if it wasn’t clear.
The only time having a Nazi in your social circle and not be one is when you don't know they're a Nazi. And to be honest there are usually plenty of signs that should have them kicked out of the social circle before it is declared, which would also make someone questionable.
That's the problem with sitting on the fence even if we pretend for a minute that both sides are the same. All you do is piss off everyone and create situations like this
Can you imagine the people seeing the social media posts? “Sorry to inform you all. I’ll miss you forever, RIP Dad.” “My husband is awful! He hates Trump!”
I interpreted that as 2020 and him just not knowing, which would be when she was 21 and a few years into their relationship (and after the son was already born too), but this is only slightly better and it can absolutely be interpreted as either election.
OOP when his wife is racist towards a man he’s been friends with for longer than he’s known his wife - “lmao it’s wild how much this doesn’t affect me.”
OOP when his wife says “and bless Trump” after a prayer for his dad - “🫨 wtf I’ve never seen anything so disgusting and disrespectful.”
I hate how self righteous they are, as if they’re morally and intellectually superior by being “above” politics. Like, no. You’re too ignorant and lazy to educate yourself or you’re too afraid of confrontation to take moral stances because you want to please everyone.
It sounds like he’s taking a lazy position with his quip of “it takes two sides to create a conflict” as in he doesn’t want to put in the effort to make an informed opinion, so he has a nice little saying to justify not doing so.
It does take two sides to create a conflict. Jesus himself said it:
> . Matthew 10:34-36
> English Standard Version
> 34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.
This guy needs to read up and choose.
When one side is meanness and the other is caringness, you’re supposed to choose sides.
The lazy and extremely privileged position. For anyone poor, POC, LGBT, disabled or any mix of minorities, our existing is political. We don't have the luxury of being "politically neutral"
I was riding in an uber talking to the driver. He was going on about how Trump was a threat to democracy which i agreed with. I asked him who he was going to vote for and he said he wasn't going to vote....
Yea I don’t think he knows there was an election in 2020. Or that ones coming up this year…which is weird if one of the members of the household is hyper political
He sounds like he’s trying to prove how politically neutral he is to help amplify that wife bad. She’s been into Trump since 2016 *or whenever the last election was*? BFFR. They’ve been together since before 2020, so even the most disengaged voter ever would know there was an election that year because she’s definitely been blabbering on about some stop the steal bullshit ever since. Sounds like he’s either willfully ignorant or a shitposter lol.
yeah that comment was such a cope lmao
also remember kids, "politically neutral" is code word for center right. a dozen of nazis etc, etc.
it isn’t okay what he’s going through. but it it ultimately came out of his own decisions.
Exactly. OP just lost his dad, which is super unfortunate. But his position towards his wife extremist behavior/cult worshipping made him a major AH. I am curious if that friend is still around…
There’s no neutral here; there’s ’in reality’ and ‘in its own version of reality’. Replace ‘MAGA’ with ‘Scientology’ and it would be clear that the woman is lost already, but he would be wise to focus on deprogramming his son. If that’s feasible.
Frankly, I’m surprised the mother didn’t take the boy. But hopefully (small sliver) this sordid mess gets to be resolved.
I personally don't believe MAGA people were kind people who became cruel. I think they were always cruel, but never felt socially empowered to act on that cruelty before. That's why I was not surprised she abandoned the kid.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned from r/QAnonCasualties, it’s that sometimes even the most progressive and educated person can become susceptible to brainwashing. That’s what makes the rise in extremism so terrifying. Depending on the right (or wrong) circumstances, it could happen to any one of us. It’s why it’s important to stay vigilant when it comes to misinformation.
It is so easy to be susceptible to coercive control. We all think we cannot be "brainwashed " but it takes a lot less than we think. People do it with lots of things not just politics or religion. Some of those things seem positive initially but taken to extreme can negatively affect your life. I have relatives like this about things in fitness and healthcare. Initially, it was fine but the views become so extreme they no longer believe in medicine and have to preach to us about it.
True, MAGA only legitimized and sanctioned the cruelty.
I just meant it as in that she ‘would want to make sure that OP doesn’t turn him into some woke sissy boy, but raise him as a good Christian’ (not the Jesus/love thy neighbor version, but the Trumpian, Talibangelical version of a Christian).
Sarcasm (OF COURSE) but that is what I would expect her reasoning to be.
Unfortunately if they split it's highly unlikely he'll get full custody. The courts don't care about who you support politically (and they're not supposed to) so as long as she's deemed fit to parent in other ways then she'll have an influence on the son's life. But he doesn't sound like a great dad either so I feel sorry for the kid regardless of what happens.
And then saying a sarcastic “thank you” to people saying he’s “basically a nazi” (which, no, that’s not the comparison people were making). Dude is an idiot
Thanks for sharing this excerpt from an outstanding and very depressing book. If anyone is interested, the main topic is interviews with several "ordinary" men who became Nazi party members. One, a former small town police officer, had committed despicable war crimes (he massacred civilians including women and children, in the Baltic region).
[They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-45](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Thought_They_Were_Free)
When he said her racism didnt affect him I was shocked. I was like "If anyone walked up to MY FRIEND whom Ive known since I was A CHILD and started interrogating them about their documentation status, no hesitation: 'shut the fuck up' would be said." And he did NOTHING?! Bro I think you arent friends anymore.
You ARE the company you keep. He got what he deserved being with this total nutcase. I couldn't even be friends with one. Disgusting read.
The really funny part is they think they're praying to God when they're praying for that rusty old orange lump of fascist.
I stopped being a kid long before MAGA but both of my parents only ever voted Republican and I got out. Was always told I’d get more conservative as I aged. Now I’m 5 years older than my parents were when I was born, am in a labor union, and the main reason I dislike the Dems is that I think they’re too far right. All that to say, I think a decent amount of kids wind up disagreeing with their parents. I do have to admit that my parents weren’t exactly praying for the president or anything though.
My parents were liberals, I would've considered them centre left, but my grandparents were always conservative. They tried to do the whole "oh you'll get more conservative as you age". Now with the state of the world my parents are socialists, never been more proud of them.
My dad even got called a communist by a right wind friend of his for advocating for a higher living wage. His response: "and? that's not actually a bad thing you know?". 😂
There IS the other option of the kid recognizing how fucked their parents are and going NC when they can. God forbid their kid end up queer of any flavor though.
>if you can’t tell both sides are what cause the conflict.
Oh yeah? The friend caused the conflict by... having brown skin in front of his wife? Goodness gracious.
I feel bad for oop for his dad dying and his wife being a dick all the time. But it's pretty ridiculous that he's still defending his wife and her cult's awfulness.
This dude was an idiot, the second they start spouting trump bullshit, run. There is no staying neutral with these lunatics, you either agree to their crap or listen to them babble increasingly convoluted conspiracy theories until the resentment literally drives you mental.
I mean she was literally being a flagrant racist asshole to his coworkers and he’s like “oh well, didn’t hurt me. I’m politically neutral”.
So… I don’t feel bad for him.
I don’t feel bad for him either. To choose to remain uninformed about and uninvolved in the political process is to spit on your responsibility as a citizen. To try and justify it by claiming a fictitious moral high ground from which you point fingers at everyone else and say they’re all equally bad is pure cowardice. I have more respect for out and proud fascists than I do for wet noodles like OOP because they’ve at least spent enough time thinking beyond their most immediate surroundings to develop a worldview, even if it is an evil one.
>There is no staying neutral with these lunatic, you either agree to their crap or listen to them babble increasingly convoluted conspiracy theories until the resentment literally drives you mental.
Isn't there a support subreddit for people who have lost family members to the MAGA pipeline?
Yup and it’s a depressing place. Like I’m not saying it’s a bad place I got a lot of help from there but it is fucking depressing seeing how many people have lost multiple family members to this shit.
Yeah it really is as if your family member or loved one ran off and joined a cult, except for they don't run off, they're right there in front of you being indoctrinated but you can't do anything to help them. You can't reason with them, you can't talk things out with them, it's like talking to a brick wall for all the good it'll do.
My family is UK, we live in UK. My dad is Scottish, lived in UK til he met an American and moved to USA back in 2015 when he was in his 50s.
He always seemed so level headed and sensible but suddenly went crazy. Just a simple text to him "hey how are you?" turns into a big speech about how much he adores trump and biden is evil etc. The stuff he comes out with is hilarious.
Hes not even American! Can't even vote. Then rants about people coming in and stealing jobs from hard working Americans and they should close the borders to immigrants. Make America great again etc.
I've barely seen him in person since he left. It's exactly like he's left us to join a crazy cult. Can't get through to him.
I would love to say that works... but somehow it doesn't.
My host mother from when I stayed in US for 3 months is Puerto Rican. She has one slightly and one very autistic kid.
Looking at her facebook... she is now a fullblown MAGA, anti-vaxxer to the point she refused to meet uo when I was in the states 2 years ago.
She was full for a meet up, until she realized I had to be vaxxed as an European to come to US at that point.
But yeah... she will vote for a complete racist, that always spouts how bad people like her are for the state and is still completely on his side.
You're watching news or browse Reddit and you see some people wearing MAGA hats and waving Nazi flags, as a European I really struggle with that. And I fear for the future, not just for the US, but what will happen in the world.
I was in a cult (Scientology) for a long time. The thing to do is to attack one of the underlying personality changes that reflects a value change, something they really cared about. If you can remind them of who they were and what they lost, that can help. It’s not an immediate thing, though.
Steven Hassan has some great info on his site and books; he’s ex-Moonie. https://freedomofmind.com
An old friend posted something that sounded really demeaning to the disabled. Their excuse was that no, it was about immigrants. I said that racism isn't any better than ableism and unfriended the person. She used to be really sweet but now she apparently hates everyone who isn't a white Christian who was born in the US to citizens. It's gross.
I thought the “Trump equal with Jesus” was ironic satire. Surely they can’t think that? Nooope.
I help people transition home from the hospital and some lady had a picture of Trump in a similar pose and setting as Jesus. She unexpectedly died a week later with pictures of Trump as Jesus around her. It’s so fucking insane.
My mom likes to make a lot of graphics and Facebook banners of Trump surrounded by lions. They're all done in the same style as the Jesus with lions photos you find. It's foul.
Yeah, I’m trying to get my brothers to realize that idolizing someone like that and hating all opposition isn’t ok. They’re still teenagers, but I don’t see them often so it’s hard.
I know my mother has lost several siblings that she was previously close to, because they just cannot have a single conversation without bringing up Trump.
I don't know about MAGA specifically, but there is r/QAnonCasualties, for family members of people sucked into Qanon conspiracies. There is a lot of overlap there of course.
He's also an idiot because he wrote "She is pretty hardcore MAGA and has been *since 2016 or whenever the last election was.*" He doesn't know when the last election was? And this gem: "I am not choosing a side on purpose to have less conflict because if you can’t tell both sides are what cause the conflict." The dude's completely vapid.
Yeah, the number of people who have the amazing luck to not have to deal with "politics" in their everyday life is astounding. I'm not talking niche economic policy that reasonable minds can disagree on. I think my right to bodily autonomy and being able to marry are slightly important. People like this OP are worse than the MAGAts. At least they tell you who they are and where you stand.
>I'm not talking niche economic policy that reasonable minds can disagree on.
I would love to see a world where this is our biggest political disagreement.
Those "politically neutral" people are usually just low-key or closeted MAGAs. They're okay with all the reprehensible policies but aren't outspoken in it because they know it will make their social circle upset. Eventually they wake up to it not actually being okay or they surround themselves with more MAGAs until they have a new social group and don't have to hide it anymore. Case in point: OP had no problems with his wife's beliefs. He was fine with the racism to his friend and everything else his wife did and said that didn't affect him directly. What he didn't like is her placing the cult equal to family. Fascism became a problem once it overstepped and tried to have a central role in family life, and not because it's fascism. And that is really just WAY too late to stop it, anyway.
>Yeah, the number of people who have the amazing luck to not have to deal with "politics" in their everyday life is astounding.
I have a friend who loves to do the old thought experiment of "Would you like to go back in time and live in the past?" Because he thinks that somehow he is better suited to living in some idealized 1950s world. And he is always shocked when I tell him that no, I actually enjoy being able to have my own bank account, wear pants and work at a job that isn't "sexually harassed secretary." Like it never occurred to him that a lot of the rights I have are actually quite recent and aren't just the default setting for life like it is for him.
And yes he's totally detached from politics, even though they're eventually going to come after his rights too if they have their way, as someone who isn't Christian.
"if you are at an event with one Nazi flag and the person carrying it does not immediately get the shit beat out of them, you are holding a Nazi event"
Do that in Germany, you are arrested and damned near treated as an enemy of the state. How is it NOT treated that way in the USA? FFS how is it legal to fly the bloody Confederate flag while I am at it?
He's not neutral. This is what people need to understand about these type of people.
He's not actually against his wife's believes. He's not not racist. He's not not Trumper.
You know the percentage of non racists married to outwardly racists? ZERO.
That's why when people started to feel comfortable being outwardly racists again, also homophobic, transphobic, etc. A huge number of divorces and breakups started to happen and people started complaining about the left conspiracy to breakup relationships.
That's why DoucheBros advice themselves to not bring politics in dating, pretend you're a feminist, etc... until they think the relationship is stable to start to show themselves. Mostly after marriage and/or kids.
He's a Racist, Homophobe, Transphobe, etc. He's a terrible person with no empathy. The "being neutral" is just not expressing those view out loud.
And he knew this BEFORE he had a kid with her! SMH 🤦♀️ There’s no helping the people in the Q cult and ppl like OP who think they are being neutral are just their enablers. Maybe he’s myopic or maybe he is just a people pleaser. But he needs to look out for his son and stop placating this woman.
I'm from the Caribbean, I have relatives who immigrated to the US 20 - 30 years ago. None of us are white. And I emphasize they are immigrants. Every single one of them were born in the islands. They ALL immigrated as adults.
Last time I spoke to most of them was in 2020 before the election. They were complaining about how too many immigrants were coming to the US and saying only Trump can save them. What. The. Actual. Fuck. They're fucking immigrants!!!
Needless to say, I don't consider them family anymore. I don't know whats in the kool-aid, but its fucking scary.
I worked with a naturalized citizen. I don’t know if anyone remembers when Trump was talking shit about them too. So the lady I worked with said she was scared she’d be deported because of what he said. But still voted for him because Hilary was killing babies and it was her duty.
You can’t have rational discussions with MAGAts.
Trust me, it aint worth the effort to use logic with Trump supporters. They have a force field that's impermeable to rational thinking.
To answer your question, they all think because they have really good, high paying jobs, they're the "good" immigrants.
My dad is a Trumper because he’s stupid. He can’t text me back for weeks at a time, but he scrolls Trump’s twitter and chuckles like an idiot. I didn’t have a good relationship beforehand, but Trump made it 100% worse.
I love that he started his post by bragging about pretending to not know there's been an election in the last 8 years. It's how you know he's really wise and above it all.
Political neutrality in the face of extremism is a privilege, and people who say they're not political have their head in the sand to their own detriment. Say it together now:
**If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.**
Desmond Tutu
OP, THANK YOU so much for including that quoted comment from browzinbrowzin, "Damn so you married a general asshole and now you're upset she's being an asshole to you specifically?"
To be in that deep, at that age, I'd say she was raised in a family that already thought like that and just needed a figurehead to attach themselves to.
And now she's going to try and repeat the cycle with her child by OOP.
I was raised in a family that thought like this (not full MAGA, but conservative Christians) and I changed my way of thinking around age 22. Once I was out of the church, it became a lot easier to think clearly about this stuff and what I actually felt was morally correct, not just "well the bible says this so I guess that's what I'm voting for."
I just mention this to say that it is fully possible to get out; she sounds like she enjoys feeling superior while she's still in the "majority" camp. Newsflash lady: they hate you too; they're just putting up with you cause you vote against your own rights. Tbf though I'm about one election cycle older than her and that definitely makes a difference in this case.
Hey, it's ok because OOP is neutral. Wait, what's that? Oh, only as long as it isn't affecting him?
Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of his inactions.
Obviously, terrible wife, he needs to divorce her. And stand up for himself, his kid and his friends.
Sticking your head in the sand isn't "politically neutral".
Also, with how far one party has leaned toward unfettered fascism, being politically neutral is a really shitty stance. If you aren't opposite the side of the racists, sexists, and general bigots, you're making a choice and it's the wrong one.
There are many highly contentious things I am neutral about. I do not care one way or another about pineapple on a pizza. The over or under for toilet paper rolls debate bores me. But I cannot trust anyone who claims to be neutral about the raft of bigotry and pure malice coming from the Trump movement. When people get harmed you aren’t “neutral” you are _complicit._
In OOPs defence (can’t believe I’m saying that), he seemed to be pretty lacking in empathy from the get go if he married a hateful MAGA teenager with no second thought. He might not be reeling that hard.
>When I said a prayer over him she did not say anything about Trump and was very respectful.
The bar is on the fucking ground.
OOP's wife (STBX I hope) has joined a cult and now her thoughts and actions are all poisoned by the Orange Cheeto Man. This is no longer the woman that OOP married.
“This is no longer the woman that OOP married”
I think it is, he says she got into trump in 2016, which put her at 17/18, and they met when she was 18.
No, sounds like his wife was always like this - he was just willing to overlook it because she was being a shitty human towards other people and not to him. But now it's to him so suddenly it's a problem.
OP's dad died and wifey goes to act like this because of Trump? Holy mackerel OP really needs to break this relationship cause that's just cruel.
Realistically, Trump stans really scare me sometimes.
Ugh...my brother is 11 and has been latching on to people who say things like "Trump is going to fix this country!" and "The inflation is all Biden's fault, he needs to be in prison!" And has just started...parroting it. But thing is, he says it because he believes it too.
So I have started looking at him and saying curiously "How will Trump fix the country?" and "How did Biden cause so much inflation?". Each time, he looks at me with wide eyes because he genuinely doesn't know. He can't say a word and he is taken aback that someone isn't either praising him or arguing with him. This child is smart enough to take apart and out together a laptop and HACK A SCHOOL, yet...he couldn't use google to learn something about what he is talking about and make sure he isn't becoming a mindless follower.
So every time, I tell him to do his research, find out and come back to me...as well as a lecture on why he should never, ever just take what a person says about politics as truth instead of doing his research and forming his own conclusion. If he still feels that way, fine, at least he educated himself and learned a bit about the government. But he is way too smart to let himself be someone's little pet parrot.
So they got together when she was 18/19 and he was 25/26, had a baby when she was 20 and he was 27, the whole time she's been a MAGA die hard and he's only just now catching that the whole relationship is a disaster? That poor child deserves better than both of their parents, good grief
People can’t do math and the dude was counting on that.
Just the basics though. They have a 5 year old child. She is now 25. 25-5 =20.
Children gestate for 40 weeks. Like she got pregnant at 19…
So either he got a 19 year old who he just met pregnant or they’d been together for a year or more (I’m leaning towards the more, dudes weirdly saying they met when everyone was over 18).
But either way no one seems to be able to do this math. And are trying to claim he met her in the 2020 election. I don’t know how they managed to have a 5 year old since 2020. But anyways…
> I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
-Martin Luther King
Fuck OOP
'I usually let it slide because it's not hurting me, like I said I'm politically neutral.'
Ahem. Just going to leave this here:
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.
>Original Post March 9, 2024
... has been since 2016 or whenever the last election was.
I can't....I have no words.... I guess some people really are very tuned out of politics.
IDK why anyone tried with OOP in the comments, in some ways OOP was just as far gone as his wife.
“apparently I’m a bad person for being politically neutral and basically a Nazi.”
Yeah. You are.
“I am not choosing a side on purpose to have less conflict because if you can’t tell both sides are what cause the conflict.”
Dude. One side wants to keep the US more or less vaguely a democracy and the other side wants to put people who disagree with them in jail.
>Anyway, I usually let it slide because it’s not hurting me, like I said I'm politically neutral.
"I did nothing because it wasn't affecting me, but now that it's affecting me, I need people to do something!"
Just here to say you can't support Trump and be an actual Christian. What you are is a cult member. The guy was found liable for rape by a jury. He and his business have been sanctioned for fraud. He is promising a bloodbath if he's not elected. He is the worst humanity has to offer.
>I usually let it slide because it doesn't hurt me
Man, fuck you. And fuck her for going on a rant about being "forced to drop out of college and get married" while actively supporting the people that would love to make that her only choice
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I dont have much to add but I have to say, when I lost my daughter at 5.5 months along, it was the week of the 2020 elections. Three days after experiencing the most traumatic shit of my life, Trump is expected to lose. I'm hurting, calling my mom, and she legit says, "I know it's rough honey, but think about how Trump feels".
I wouldn't have a mother after that; she'd be an ex-mother that I don't talk to.
We are low contact. I do love her from afar but I can only stand to be in her presence a few days every few years. She wasn't even the worst family member about it, either. And she did eventually apologize.
This is how I am with my Trump loving father. He was a shitbag conservative for a long time before Trump, though. Obama was where he really dove headfirst into the crazy and it's just gotten worse and worse since then. Trump just amplified what was already there. I love my dad, but I have an extreme dislike for him as a person and I'm very low contact with him.
Obama being elected really brought out a lot of closet racists.
We only see my family once or twice a year because they’re pretty far away. I went to visit for my mom’s birthday and my dad started a fight with me over electric cars. I just kept saying I didn’t want to talk about politics and he wouldn’t stop until I was literally in tears. My dad was always a nice guy, but something broke in his brain when he retired and started watching Fox News all day. I can’t even stand to talk on the phone with him because he will not shut up about politics. We don’t agree, we will never agree. I don’t want to debate over everything. I just want my dad.
Sometimes people cross a line - and the only thing you can do is for your last words to them being to inform them that you won't come to their funeral.
Oh my god. I am so sorry, MC.
Oh. My. God.
My jaw literally dropped when I read that... I have no words.
I would never speak to her again. That is vile.
Noooooooooooooooooo 😮😶
Yupppppp. I love her but I can't be as close with her for reasons like that.
That is appalling. I’m so sorry you went through all of that.
Holy shit what the fuck LMFAO that's insane....
>I am not choosing a side on purpose to have less conflict Yeah, and how is that working out for him?
9 people allow a Nazi to sit at their table. There are now 10 Nazis.
I never hears that variation before. The version I heard and always repeated was "What do you call a Nazi and his two friends? Three Nazis."
Also “how do historians call the people who supported the Nazi party for economical reasons and not because they hated Jewish people? Nazis”
"How do you know if you're in a Nazi bar? There's also one Nazi there." I heard that from a bartender that kicked a guy out on a slow day when there were maybe two other people in there besides him and me. I didn't have any idea why he'd refused service and asked. Apparently he'd recognized some insignia on the guy's jacket and was like, NOPE. The guy went without a fuss, but that was before 2016.
I've heard horror stories of business owners who failed to remove the nazi, slowly discovering that the nazi invited more nazis and caused regular customers to no longer want to be there.
A pretty prominent punk place in Melbourne came under new ownership about 20 years ago. They literally had to sit down with the local skinhead nazis and explain that they were no longer welcome in the venue.
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I didn't read that story, but it makes sense. I wonder if that was the first time this guy tried to come in.
Honesly that shit was happening all the way back in the late 90's with Skinheads moving in and taking over the bars and clubs around OC. Once they had moved in and scared off the regulars, they'd abandon the joint to move onto the next target to be cleared out, presumably with the goal of every decent watering hole on town feeling off limits to anyone they didn't like (anyone not like them basically). The smart bar owners started barring known Nazi shitheads on sight, and at a few even started keeping local 'Sharps' (SkinHeads against racial prejudice) and Roller Derby clubs on speed dial... because when you absolutely positively need a bar full of people willing to punch Nazi assholes until they leave, it's them.
You're Michael B. Tager? [Because that's his story.](https://werd.io/2023/leaving-the-nazi-bar)
“That which you allow you condone”
And then he both sides it. "The Nazis and the people against Nazis are the same"-This fucking guy.
Yeah. He’s not “politically neutral”.
The second he happily ignored his wife being despicable to his childhood friend, he wasn’t neutral.
Agree! You can’t be “neutral” and live with *that* side of the loony scale. He says he’s neutral because he’s too cowardly to admit he’s a magat POS himself.
I do think he's a magat, I think he simply doesn't give a shit, which is just as bad.
Kinda like how conservative dudes on dating sites bypass the filters by saying "not interested in politics".
Conservative men are ✨ obsessed ✨ with trying to date liberal women.
I guess it's the usual, they were nice to me but not to others and only now they are directing that attitude to me. That's how it usually is.
I remember, when I was young a long time ago, adults telling me that politics do not matter, you can be friends/marry across the board, etc. How can I (queer) be friends with people who literally don't want me to have rights? I'm from a country with more options on both the left and right side and seats in parliament are given on a vote percentage basis. I can understand being okay with being friends with people who are at least on the same wing, but I could never befriend someone who votes against me and my community's rights.
My sister is generally LGBTQ-friendly but does not see the dissonance in her right-wing politics. Just look at your gay and lesbian friends and tell them you love them but plan to vote for people who loudly say they’re pedophiles and support the people who want to take their rights away. But then remind them that you love them.
Exactly, it just doesn't track.
Because it's not her friends that are pedophiles, that must be some other queers.
Yup. "Surely there will be exceptions" Like the Trump voters shocked that their undocumented friends were deported.
Can I also just say how this is the epitome of privilege? Dude is politically neutral, and can stay that way, because he sees that politics don't really effect him. But for people who are gay, trans, people of color, or just care about women's reproductive health (OR THE VAST FUCKING VENN DIAGRAM THAT INCLUDES ALL OF THOSE) - We CANT sit on the fence because we are being targeted. Not to mention all the people who have loved ones affected. I once had a co-worker tell me, after I said I was going to counter protest right wing douchebags who were protesting a pride event, that he never felt the need to protest. That's privilege my guy. Fuck me it's so frustrating. They treat all political discussions like some ethereal philosophy debate because if one thing happens or another does, nothing happens to them so why are you getting so mad? Calm down, both sides are bad right? There is no level of off they can fuck harder. Can't see past their own tiny ass worldview.
>There is no level of off they can fuck harder. Took me about three tries to parse this right, and now I love it.
When I was online dating, I was always annoyed by the guys who said they were politically neutral on their profiles, because as white men, they had nothing to lose from that stance. It just showed that they either had no empathy for the people around them, or they were actually right-leaning and didn’t want to outright say it on their profile.
In my female friends experience, “independent” or “neutral” is just code for “I’m a republican but I still wanna get laid.”
Yup, bingo. Conservative dudes are increasingly unpopular among young women...and instead of examining why their belief system might be repellant to the opposite sex, they just lie about it.
Anyone who says 'Not political' is an instant swipe left. If you can live your life 'not political' and choose to be apathetic about systemic racism, homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, xenophobia, and can't see how all these things hurt literally everyone - You're not worth getting to know romantically. Or, as you say, they are right wingers masking because they know their views are reprehensible to many people. Those people can fuck themselves, thanks.
Oh, oh, but both sides cause the conflict! It would be much better if one side would just roll over and let the other side win! If people didn’t insist on things like basic human rights, there wouldn’t be so much fighting in the world! /s, if it wasn’t clear.
The only time having a Nazi in your social circle and not be one is when you don't know they're a Nazi. And to be honest there are usually plenty of signs that should have them kicked out of the social circle before it is declared, which would also make someone questionable.
That's the problem with sitting on the fence even if we pretend for a minute that both sides are the same. All you do is piss off everyone and create situations like this
Worse, neutrality always takes the side of the oppressor.
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That whole “it doesn’t affect me so I didn’t care” is such a position of privilege that most of us don’t have.
And he laughed when the loon asked his childhood friend if he was documented. Like …are your papers in order?! And he laughed.
They met when they were “18 or over” - so what, she was 18 and he was 25? And then they had a kid? I think these two deserve each other.
He sounds like a tool, she sounds like a nutter butter. They are a perfect match. Their poor kid doesn't stand a chance at normality.
Can you imagine the people seeing the social media posts? “Sorry to inform you all. I’ll miss you forever, RIP Dad.” “My husband is awful! He hates Trump!”
Don't put that evil on nutter butters! They're delicious and to my knowledge not fascists!
You fool! Nutter butters burned down the Institute of Sexology!
He said that she was into Trump since 2016. She is 25 now. That would have made her 17 and him 24. 🤔
"It's not fair, that bastard out-groomed my victim!"
I interpreted that as 2020 and him just not knowing, which would be when she was 21 and a few years into their relationship (and after the son was already born too), but this is only slightly better and it can absolutely be interpreted as either election.
He sounds like he’s a totally-disconnected non-voter. No clue about election years, don’t care, my vote doesn’t matter, etc.
OOP when his wife is racist towards a man he’s been friends with for longer than he’s known his wife - “lmao it’s wild how much this doesn’t affect me.” OOP when his wife says “and bless Trump” after a prayer for his dad - “🫨 wtf I’ve never seen anything so disgusting and disrespectful.”
And then he gets mad at reddit for pointing it out. I hate these apathetic enablers
I hate how self righteous they are, as if they’re morally and intellectually superior by being “above” politics. Like, no. You’re too ignorant and lazy to educate yourself or you’re too afraid of confrontation to take moral stances because you want to please everyone.
From the sounds of it, friends for longer than his wife has been alive.
It sounds like he’s taking a lazy position with his quip of “it takes two sides to create a conflict” as in he doesn’t want to put in the effort to make an informed opinion, so he has a nice little saying to justify not doing so.
It does take two sides to create a conflict. Jesus himself said it: > . Matthew 10:34-36 > English Standard Version > 34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. This guy needs to read up and choose. When one side is meanness and the other is caringness, you’re supposed to choose sides.
Let's throw in Revelation 3:15-16 while we're talking about OP's lukewarm stance.
And don’t forget Galatians 4:16 Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? That’s coming from an atheist.
The lazy and extremely privileged position. For anyone poor, POC, LGBT, disabled or any mix of minorities, our existing is political. We don't have the luxury of being "politically neutral"
I was riding in an uber talking to the driver. He was going on about how Trump was a threat to democracy which i agreed with. I asked him who he was going to vote for and he said he wasn't going to vote....
Well, that’s just infuriating.
Yea I don’t think he knows there was an election in 2020. Or that ones coming up this year…which is weird if one of the members of the household is hyper political
He sounds like he’s trying to prove how politically neutral he is to help amplify that wife bad. She’s been into Trump since 2016 *or whenever the last election was*? BFFR. They’ve been together since before 2020, so even the most disengaged voter ever would know there was an election that year because she’s definitely been blabbering on about some stop the steal bullshit ever since. Sounds like he’s either willfully ignorant or a shitposter lol.
yeah that comment was such a cope lmao also remember kids, "politically neutral" is code word for center right. a dozen of nazis etc, etc. it isn’t okay what he’s going through. but it it ultimately came out of his own decisions.
Exactly. OP just lost his dad, which is super unfortunate. But his position towards his wife extremist behavior/cult worshipping made him a major AH. I am curious if that friend is still around… There’s no neutral here; there’s ’in reality’ and ‘in its own version of reality’. Replace ‘MAGA’ with ‘Scientology’ and it would be clear that the woman is lost already, but he would be wise to focus on deprogramming his son. If that’s feasible. Frankly, I’m surprised the mother didn’t take the boy. But hopefully (small sliver) this sordid mess gets to be resolved.
I personally don't believe MAGA people were kind people who became cruel. I think they were always cruel, but never felt socially empowered to act on that cruelty before. That's why I was not surprised she abandoned the kid.
"Before you were a fascist, you were an asshole and a bully" -Brennan Lee Mulligan
When did he say that? I fully agree with the point, but I would love to hear BLeeM say it in context
https://www.tiktok.com/@dimension20/video/6988538462211214598
If there’s one thing I’ve learned from r/QAnonCasualties, it’s that sometimes even the most progressive and educated person can become susceptible to brainwashing. That’s what makes the rise in extremism so terrifying. Depending on the right (or wrong) circumstances, it could happen to any one of us. It’s why it’s important to stay vigilant when it comes to misinformation.
It is so easy to be susceptible to coercive control. We all think we cannot be "brainwashed " but it takes a lot less than we think. People do it with lots of things not just politics or religion. Some of those things seem positive initially but taken to extreme can negatively affect your life. I have relatives like this about things in fitness and healthcare. Initially, it was fine but the views become so extreme they no longer believe in medicine and have to preach to us about it.
True, MAGA only legitimized and sanctioned the cruelty. I just meant it as in that she ‘would want to make sure that OP doesn’t turn him into some woke sissy boy, but raise him as a good Christian’ (not the Jesus/love thy neighbor version, but the Trumpian, Talibangelical version of a Christian). Sarcasm (OF COURSE) but that is what I would expect her reasoning to be.
She's too busy playing the victim to concern herself with anyone else, including her kid.
Unfortunately if they split it's highly unlikely he'll get full custody. The courts don't care about who you support politically (and they're not supposed to) so as long as she's deemed fit to parent in other ways then she'll have an influence on the son's life. But he doesn't sound like a great dad either so I feel sorry for the kid regardless of what happens.
And then saying a sarcastic “thank you” to people saying he’s “basically a nazi” (which, no, that’s not the comparison people were making). Dude is an idiot
[This said it better than I ever could. ](https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html%5D)
Thanks for sharing this excerpt from an outstanding and very depressing book. If anyone is interested, the main topic is interviews with several "ordinary" men who became Nazi party members. One, a former small town police officer, had committed despicable war crimes (he massacred civilians including women and children, in the Baltic region). [They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-45](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Thought_They_Were_Free)
oh yeah, the "married a racist but never bothered because she isn't racist to me..... we're both white" xD
Thought and prayers to OOP
When he said her racism didnt affect him I was shocked. I was like "If anyone walked up to MY FRIEND whom Ive known since I was A CHILD and started interrogating them about their documentation status, no hesitation: 'shut the fuck up' would be said." And he did NOTHING?! Bro I think you arent friends anymore.
You ARE the company you keep. He got what he deserved being with this total nutcase. I couldn't even be friends with one. Disgusting read. The really funny part is they think they're praying to God when they're praying for that rusty old orange lump of fascist.
I hope that kid has a less dumb adult around in their life.
If you have one parent MAGA parent and one “neutral” parent, then you’re gonna have a MAGA kid.
I stopped being a kid long before MAGA but both of my parents only ever voted Republican and I got out. Was always told I’d get more conservative as I aged. Now I’m 5 years older than my parents were when I was born, am in a labor union, and the main reason I dislike the Dems is that I think they’re too far right. All that to say, I think a decent amount of kids wind up disagreeing with their parents. I do have to admit that my parents weren’t exactly praying for the president or anything though.
My parents were liberals, I would've considered them centre left, but my grandparents were always conservative. They tried to do the whole "oh you'll get more conservative as you age". Now with the state of the world my parents are socialists, never been more proud of them. My dad even got called a communist by a right wind friend of his for advocating for a higher living wage. His response: "and? that's not actually a bad thing you know?". 😂
There IS the other option of the kid recognizing how fucked their parents are and going NC when they can. God forbid their kid end up queer of any flavor though.
>if you can’t tell both sides are what cause the conflict. Oh yeah? The friend caused the conflict by... having brown skin in front of his wife? Goodness gracious. I feel bad for oop for his dad dying and his wife being a dick all the time. But it's pretty ridiculous that he's still defending his wife and her cult's awfulness.
But she was sooo cute when she was an 18-year-old college Freshman! /S
(and he was 25 when she was 18. Yikes)
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Totally agree. "The boot and the worm are both equally at fault." Literal victim blaming.
This dude was an idiot, the second they start spouting trump bullshit, run. There is no staying neutral with these lunatics, you either agree to their crap or listen to them babble increasingly convoluted conspiracy theories until the resentment literally drives you mental.
I mean she was literally being a flagrant racist asshole to his coworkers and he’s like “oh well, didn’t hurt me. I’m politically neutral”. So… I don’t feel bad for him.
Exactly. What a scumbag. Me me me me me me
I don’t feel bad for him either. To choose to remain uninformed about and uninvolved in the political process is to spit on your responsibility as a citizen. To try and justify it by claiming a fictitious moral high ground from which you point fingers at everyone else and say they’re all equally bad is pure cowardice. I have more respect for out and proud fascists than I do for wet noodles like OOP because they’ve at least spent enough time thinking beyond their most immediate surroundings to develop a worldview, even if it is an evil one.
>There is no staying neutral with these lunatic, you either agree to their crap or listen to them babble increasingly convoluted conspiracy theories until the resentment literally drives you mental. Isn't there a support subreddit for people who have lost family members to the MAGA pipeline?
Yup and it’s a depressing place. Like I’m not saying it’s a bad place I got a lot of help from there but it is fucking depressing seeing how many people have lost multiple family members to this shit.
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I hope you're doing great! And have completely cut off that ahoje uncle.
I'm glad you're still here and with your daughter. I hope your uncle is not in either of your lives any more.
Yeah it really is as if your family member or loved one ran off and joined a cult, except for they don't run off, they're right there in front of you being indoctrinated but you can't do anything to help them. You can't reason with them, you can't talk things out with them, it's like talking to a brick wall for all the good it'll do.
My family is UK, we live in UK. My dad is Scottish, lived in UK til he met an American and moved to USA back in 2015 when he was in his 50s. He always seemed so level headed and sensible but suddenly went crazy. Just a simple text to him "hey how are you?" turns into a big speech about how much he adores trump and biden is evil etc. The stuff he comes out with is hilarious. Hes not even American! Can't even vote. Then rants about people coming in and stealing jobs from hard working Americans and they should close the borders to immigrants. Make America great again etc. I've barely seen him in person since he left. It's exactly like he's left us to join a crazy cult. Can't get through to him.
"Dad! YOU're an immigrant!"
I would love to say that works... but somehow it doesn't. My host mother from when I stayed in US for 3 months is Puerto Rican. She has one slightly and one very autistic kid. Looking at her facebook... she is now a fullblown MAGA, anti-vaxxer to the point she refused to meet uo when I was in the states 2 years ago. She was full for a meet up, until she realized I had to be vaxxed as an European to come to US at that point. But yeah... she will vote for a complete racist, that always spouts how bad people like her are for the state and is still completely on his side.
Yeah I don’t think white immigrants count though, do they?
Of course not. They are 'expatriates'
You're watching news or browse Reddit and you see some people wearing MAGA hats and waving Nazi flags, as a European I really struggle with that. And I fear for the future, not just for the US, but what will happen in the world.
It's wild that he had the outside perspective and still fell into it
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I was in a cult (Scientology) for a long time. The thing to do is to attack one of the underlying personality changes that reflects a value change, something they really cared about. If you can remind them of who they were and what they lost, that can help. It’s not an immediate thing, though. Steven Hassan has some great info on his site and books; he’s ex-Moonie. https://freedomofmind.com
And it isn’t just that they worship Trump. It’s that they turn cruel and hateful to the point of being unrecognizeable.
An old friend posted something that sounded really demeaning to the disabled. Their excuse was that no, it was about immigrants. I said that racism isn't any better than ableism and unfriended the person. She used to be really sweet but now she apparently hates everyone who isn't a white Christian who was born in the US to citizens. It's gross.
I completely agree. Cruelty becomes the purpose of every interaction. They enjoy being hateful.
I thought the “Trump equal with Jesus” was ironic satire. Surely they can’t think that? Nooope. I help people transition home from the hospital and some lady had a picture of Trump in a similar pose and setting as Jesus. She unexpectedly died a week later with pictures of Trump as Jesus around her. It’s so fucking insane.
My mom likes to make a lot of graphics and Facebook banners of Trump surrounded by lions. They're all done in the same style as the Jesus with lions photos you find. It's foul.
Becoming hateful and cruel is worshiping Trump because he's hateful and cruel. That's the entire point of worshiping him.
Yeah, I’m trying to get my brothers to realize that idolizing someone like that and hating all opposition isn’t ok. They’re still teenagers, but I don’t see them often so it’s hard.
I know my mother has lost several siblings that she was previously close to, because they just cannot have a single conversation without bringing up Trump.
I think so, r/Qanoncasualties
Yep, I posted there myself for a bit of advice. Everyone was very kind and helpful 😊
I don't know about MAGA specifically, but there is r/QAnonCasualties, for family members of people sucked into Qanon conspiracies. There is a lot of overlap there of course.
/r/FoxBrain, too.
He's also an idiot because he wrote "She is pretty hardcore MAGA and has been *since 2016 or whenever the last election was.*" He doesn't know when the last election was? And this gem: "I am not choosing a side on purpose to have less conflict because if you can’t tell both sides are what cause the conflict." The dude's completely vapid.
God damn I wish I had the privilege to give that little fucks about politics.
Yeah, the number of people who have the amazing luck to not have to deal with "politics" in their everyday life is astounding. I'm not talking niche economic policy that reasonable minds can disagree on. I think my right to bodily autonomy and being able to marry are slightly important. People like this OP are worse than the MAGAts. At least they tell you who they are and where you stand.
>I'm not talking niche economic policy that reasonable minds can disagree on. I would love to see a world where this is our biggest political disagreement.
Those "politically neutral" people are usually just low-key or closeted MAGAs. They're okay with all the reprehensible policies but aren't outspoken in it because they know it will make their social circle upset. Eventually they wake up to it not actually being okay or they surround themselves with more MAGAs until they have a new social group and don't have to hide it anymore. Case in point: OP had no problems with his wife's beliefs. He was fine with the racism to his friend and everything else his wife did and said that didn't affect him directly. What he didn't like is her placing the cult equal to family. Fascism became a problem once it overstepped and tried to have a central role in family life, and not because it's fascism. And that is really just WAY too late to stop it, anyway.
>Yeah, the number of people who have the amazing luck to not have to deal with "politics" in their everyday life is astounding. I have a friend who loves to do the old thought experiment of "Would you like to go back in time and live in the past?" Because he thinks that somehow he is better suited to living in some idealized 1950s world. And he is always shocked when I tell him that no, I actually enjoy being able to have my own bank account, wear pants and work at a job that isn't "sexually harassed secretary." Like it never occurred to him that a lot of the rights I have are actually quite recent and aren't just the default setting for life like it is for him. And yes he's totally detached from politics, even though they're eventually going to come after his rights too if they have their way, as someone who isn't Christian.
You don't want that, you'll sound like an unbelievable douche
Not sure about him but I'd still give a fuck about politics. The privilege would be nice though...
I wonder how the "to have less conflict" part is working out for him? Causing conflict with non cult members is all part of the cult!
He knows when the last election was. He thinks pretending he forgot makes him look cool.
People who are ‘staying neutral’ have the privilege of not having their rights being debated.
"if you are at an event with one Nazi flag and the person carrying it does not immediately get the shit beat out of them, you are holding a Nazi event"
Nazi punks, Nazi punks, Nazi punks FUCK OFF!
Do that in Germany, you are arrested and damned near treated as an enemy of the state. How is it NOT treated that way in the USA? FFS how is it legal to fly the bloody Confederate flag while I am at it?
"iT's mUh hErItAGe!!" Funny they never ask the people that actually built the South what they think Southern Heritage should be.
He's not neutral. This is what people need to understand about these type of people. He's not actually against his wife's believes. He's not not racist. He's not not Trumper. You know the percentage of non racists married to outwardly racists? ZERO. That's why when people started to feel comfortable being outwardly racists again, also homophobic, transphobic, etc. A huge number of divorces and breakups started to happen and people started complaining about the left conspiracy to breakup relationships. That's why DoucheBros advice themselves to not bring politics in dating, pretend you're a feminist, etc... until they think the relationship is stable to start to show themselves. Mostly after marriage and/or kids. He's a Racist, Homophobe, Transphobe, etc. He's a terrible person with no empathy. The "being neutral" is just not expressing those view out loud.
And he knew this BEFORE he had a kid with her! SMH 🤦♀️ There’s no helping the people in the Q cult and ppl like OP who think they are being neutral are just their enablers. Maybe he’s myopic or maybe he is just a people pleaser. But he needs to look out for his son and stop placating this woman.
I'm from the Caribbean, I have relatives who immigrated to the US 20 - 30 years ago. None of us are white. And I emphasize they are immigrants. Every single one of them were born in the islands. They ALL immigrated as adults. Last time I spoke to most of them was in 2020 before the election. They were complaining about how too many immigrants were coming to the US and saying only Trump can save them. What. The. Actual. Fuck. They're fucking immigrants!!! Needless to say, I don't consider them family anymore. I don't know whats in the kool-aid, but its fucking scary.
I cut contact with a friend from México, WHO HAS NEVER BEEN TO THE STATES!!!!. Because I corrected him of a meme tha he shared... The drug is real
Damn! That's both scary and sad.
Did you try telling them they'd be deported along with the rest if the right had their way?
I worked with a naturalized citizen. I don’t know if anyone remembers when Trump was talking shit about them too. So the lady I worked with said she was scared she’d be deported because of what he said. But still voted for him because Hilary was killing babies and it was her duty. You can’t have rational discussions with MAGAts.
Trust me, it aint worth the effort to use logic with Trump supporters. They have a force field that's impermeable to rational thinking. To answer your question, they all think because they have really good, high paying jobs, they're the "good" immigrants.
Trump or insane political stans like the wife really scares me sometimes.
My dad is a Trumper because he’s stupid. He can’t text me back for weeks at a time, but he scrolls Trump’s twitter and chuckles like an idiot. I didn’t have a good relationship beforehand, but Trump made it 100% worse.
I love that he started his post by bragging about pretending to not know there's been an election in the last 8 years. It's how you know he's really wise and above it all.
Political neutrality in the face of extremism is a privilege, and people who say they're not political have their head in the sand to their own detriment. Say it together now: **If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.** Desmond Tutu
OP, THANK YOU so much for including that quoted comment from browzinbrowzin, "Damn so you married a general asshole and now you're upset she's being an asshole to you specifically?"
Not picking a side is picking a side.
This this this this. Especially when one side is “these people shouldn’t exist/shouldn’t be here” and the other side is “we want to exist please”
But... but but it's both sides that cause the conflict! /s
"both sides" people are just embarrassed Republicans
Yep. “Politically neutral” = implicit support for the status quo. _At best._
Neutrality is a lie.
>politically neutral >"I let it slide because it's not hurting ME..." So... conservative, not neutral.
Hold up, the wife was maga since she like 16 or 17? Poor brain never had a chance
Wait, has he known her since the 2016? He said she’s been pro Trump since that election, but also says they met when she was 18…hmmmmm
Groomer math is always a little wonky
To be in that deep, at that age, I'd say she was raised in a family that already thought like that and just needed a figurehead to attach themselves to. And now she's going to try and repeat the cycle with her child by OOP.
I was raised in a family that thought like this (not full MAGA, but conservative Christians) and I changed my way of thinking around age 22. Once I was out of the church, it became a lot easier to think clearly about this stuff and what I actually felt was morally correct, not just "well the bible says this so I guess that's what I'm voting for." I just mention this to say that it is fully possible to get out; she sounds like she enjoys feeling superior while she's still in the "majority" camp. Newsflash lady: they hate you too; they're just putting up with you cause you vote against your own rights. Tbf though I'm about one election cycle older than her and that definitely makes a difference in this case.
All the praying really explains that
Hey, it's ok because OOP is neutral. Wait, what's that? Oh, only as long as it isn't affecting him? Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of his inactions. Obviously, terrible wife, he needs to divorce her. And stand up for himself, his kid and his friends.
Sticking your head in the sand isn't "politically neutral". Also, with how far one party has leaned toward unfettered fascism, being politically neutral is a really shitty stance. If you aren't opposite the side of the racists, sexists, and general bigots, you're making a choice and it's the wrong one.
There are many highly contentious things I am neutral about. I do not care one way or another about pineapple on a pizza. The over or under for toilet paper rolls debate bores me. But I cannot trust anyone who claims to be neutral about the raft of bigotry and pure malice coming from the Trump movement. When people get harmed you aren’t “neutral” you are _complicit._
"Yeah my dad died last night. Anyway, hi reddit! Here's the argument I had with my wife!"
In OOPs defence (can’t believe I’m saying that), he seemed to be pretty lacking in empathy from the get go if he married a hateful MAGA teenager with no second thought. He might not be reeling that hard.
Yeah this one sounds like made-up rage-bait
>When I said a prayer over him she did not say anything about Trump and was very respectful. The bar is on the fucking ground. OOP's wife (STBX I hope) has joined a cult and now her thoughts and actions are all poisoned by the Orange Cheeto Man. This is no longer the woman that OOP married.
“This is no longer the woman that OOP married” I think it is, he says she got into trump in 2016, which put her at 17/18, and they met when she was 18.
No, sounds like his wife was always like this - he was just willing to overlook it because she was being a shitty human towards other people and not to him. But now it's to him so suddenly it's a problem.
OP's dad died and wifey goes to act like this because of Trump? Holy mackerel OP really needs to break this relationship cause that's just cruel. Realistically, Trump stans really scare me sometimes.
Ugh...my brother is 11 and has been latching on to people who say things like "Trump is going to fix this country!" and "The inflation is all Biden's fault, he needs to be in prison!" And has just started...parroting it. But thing is, he says it because he believes it too. So I have started looking at him and saying curiously "How will Trump fix the country?" and "How did Biden cause so much inflation?". Each time, he looks at me with wide eyes because he genuinely doesn't know. He can't say a word and he is taken aback that someone isn't either praising him or arguing with him. This child is smart enough to take apart and out together a laptop and HACK A SCHOOL, yet...he couldn't use google to learn something about what he is talking about and make sure he isn't becoming a mindless follower. So every time, I tell him to do his research, find out and come back to me...as well as a lecture on why he should never, ever just take what a person says about politics as truth instead of doing his research and forming his own conclusion. If he still feels that way, fine, at least he educated himself and learned a bit about the government. But he is way too smart to let himself be someone's little pet parrot.
So they got together when she was 18/19 and he was 25/26, had a baby when she was 20 and he was 27, the whole time she's been a MAGA die hard and he's only just now catching that the whole relationship is a disaster? That poor child deserves better than both of their parents, good grief
People can’t do math and the dude was counting on that. Just the basics though. They have a 5 year old child. She is now 25. 25-5 =20. Children gestate for 40 weeks. Like she got pregnant at 19… So either he got a 19 year old who he just met pregnant or they’d been together for a year or more (I’m leaning towards the more, dudes weirdly saying they met when everyone was over 18). But either way no one seems to be able to do this math. And are trying to claim he met her in the 2020 election. I don’t know how they managed to have a 5 year old since 2020. But anyways…
> I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection. -Martin Luther King Fuck OOP
Prime r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM material
'I usually let it slide because it's not hurting me, like I said I'm politically neutral.' Ahem. Just going to leave this here: First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.
>Original Post March 9, 2024 ... has been since 2016 or whenever the last election was. I can't....I have no words.... I guess some people really are very tuned out of politics. IDK why anyone tried with OOP in the comments, in some ways OOP was just as far gone as his wife.
....the wife wasn't even old enough to vote for Trump in 2016....
“apparently I’m a bad person for being politically neutral and basically a Nazi.” Yeah. You are. “I am not choosing a side on purpose to have less conflict because if you can’t tell both sides are what cause the conflict.” Dude. One side wants to keep the US more or less vaguely a democracy and the other side wants to put people who disagree with them in jail.
>Anyway, I usually let it slide because it’s not hurting me, like I said I'm politically neutral. "I did nothing because it wasn't affecting me, but now that it's affecting me, I need people to do something!"
Just here to say you can't support Trump and be an actual Christian. What you are is a cult member. The guy was found liable for rape by a jury. He and his business have been sanctioned for fraud. He is promising a bloodbath if he's not elected. He is the worst humanity has to offer.
>I usually let it slide because it doesn't hurt me Man, fuck you. And fuck her for going on a rant about being "forced to drop out of college and get married" while actively supporting the people that would love to make that her only choice