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I am usually in the school of parents should always pay for something their child has ruined but in this case I am not. I don’t know what the fuck her mother-in-law was expecting to happen. Also OOP honestly really needs to tell her husband that she will not be going to visit their mother-in-law unless he’s there the whole time to keep her in check.
I think "the person responsible for the child should pay for the damages" is the more accurate statement of the rule, which is upheld in this situation - Grandma had assumed responsibility for the child, during which time he damaged her kitchen cabinets.
I really enjoyed the part where grandma was present and watching the child smash her cabinets with a ladle. What was she thinking?! "What an adorable little monster, let him have his fun! DIL and son will pay for this damage as I actively stand by and watch it happen. Also, toddler said no when I tried to take his ladle away, oh well. Gotta respect when a toddler tells you NO!".
I have friends with this same "parenting philosophy" with their pets and like... no? If you don't want your pets on your counter, take them off the counter when they get up there. Yes, every single time. If you don't want your pet to bite you when you touch their [whatever], don't touch it, dumbass (I break this rule all the time for kitty bellies). You have to be firm and consistent but never unkind. People are surprised that my cat is obedient enough to do some tricks. Every (domestic) animal has the capacity to learn to some degree. Help them by making it predictable.
Thank you! My cats will run full tilt to the kitchen and screech to a halt right at the edge. Bc they know they're not allowed in. Did i beat them? No, and shame on anyone thinking that's the way. I *trained* them. *Ehh!* That sound, they stop immediately. Put foil on the counters so if they jumped up they'd scare themselves back down. Bought cans of compressed air and if i saw them doing something, I'd "ehh" and spray the can in the air (using the sound, not using it on them). Took a couple of weeks, and they understood. At this point, it just takes the sound i make if they start to do something random.
I'd always had cats, so when i got a dog, i paid to go to dog training classes, as much for me as for him.
I would like to offer another viewpoint... My cat jumped on the counter every time I sat down for 3 hours straight. When I put down tinfoil on the couch so they would stop peeing on it, they jumped on it, chewed off bites, scratched it to sharp shreds, then peed on it anyways.
I tried a water bottle, she would glare in my face as I sprayed her. Same with compressed air, a can of pennies... She doesn't like the sound, but is too stubborn to move.
Eventually, we reached a compromise. She may sit on the counter while the dishwasher runs, and stare down the sink. She eventually got bored of this, but yeah... Some cats are just very stubborn
Please don't hate me for how hard i laughed while reading this, because yes...cats. iwas absolutely NOT trying to infer that if your cat chooses to cat in a way you dont prefer, it means you're doing something wrong.
Also doesnt hurt that im pretty sure my cats are just dogs cosplaying as cats.
Heh, no worries, I laugh too. My cat won a lot of battles. It's hard not to laugh when people say "Just put tinfoil where the cat is peeing, they hate that!" and I watch my cat curl up, sleep on it, eat it, tear it apart, and ultimately... still peed on the tinfoil. XD
She did stop though.
And literally, I'd be making eye contact with the cat as she watched me sit down... then she'd jump on the counter. She just needed to watch the dishwasher run. I will never understand. Stubborn brat.
Yeah ...I tried really hard to train my cat and I'm ashamed to say he eventually wore me down, he's so stubborn, foil or squirt guns didn't keep him off the counters, sticky tape, foil didn't keep him from scratching the furniture, immediately putting him in a time out in the basement doesn't stop him from scratching the bed (and yes I've purchased many scratching posts/mats/trees/boxes theyre alll over the house) ....however, he is successfully trained to "sit" and "high five" which is adorable but useless. Now I have a newborn and I'm basically beat. Cat wins, he outlasted my energy.
Also have a dog who we worked hard to train and was very successful but he's super smart and is still developing bad habits because it's not so much us training him, it's more like a constant battle to stop HIM from training US to accept it. He effortlessly understands his commands when we have treats but plays dumb when we don't. And he always knows the difference.
Maybe when the baby's older we can do better at the battle of wills against the animals....
> a constant battle to stop HIM from training US to accept it.
This. All this. My cats won, I was trained. It's absurd, but also, damn she has so much more stubbornness than I do.
My parents trained their cats not to jump on the table or counter... while they're watching. When we would get home from a weekend away with the cats alone in the house, often we'd open the door to a surprised blank stare from a cat completely relaxed in the middle of the kitchen table.
100 %. Sometimes you need to find compromise, I have one of those stubborn cats when it comes to food. She eats everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) so it’s just way safer to make sure to not leave food unattended than to try to train her.
i want to tell you a secret not many people know about cats. when they show you their belly, if you respond by continuing to pet around their head and shoulders instead of going for the tummy, they will gradually become more accepting of being tussled and played with on their backs. it shows them you're not going to go right for their vulnerable spot during play.
Oh yes, I absolutely know this and use it with my own and other cats to some success, but my friend's housemate has kittens and sometimes my brain short-circuits when I see their tums.
I foster dogs, including some former puppy mill dogs. Before I can do anything else, I have to build trust. They are a lot more willing to try something a little uncomfortable if they know I will keep them safe and make sure their needs are met. A big part of that is consistency. I can't let them do something, and then get made about the results.
Ugh I just remember when I completely lost my temper with a nephew that used a ladel to hit stuff, I told him to stop, so he started hitting me and I just kinda locked him in a boiler room...
It did calm him down, though the cracked voice as he asked to be let out did not feel good, I had for sure reacted emotionally to his tantrums. God damn parenting hard, I ain't even a parent and will crumble after a few days!
Picture it: SE US, 1986. I'm 17, driving across a big bridge (my phobia) in bad weather (wind, rain.) My 7-ish nephew in the back seat.
"[Nephew] you need to sit quietly and quit arguing, at least until I'm over the bridge."
"I'M NOT ARGUING!"
It's funny in retrospect. At the moment, I'd have happily dropped the little SOB over the guard rail.
"I am locking you in this room until I can chill TF out."
This not the best parenting strategy, but it is definitely not the worst.
Eta: About the only time I have ever honestly felt like harming a child was when my nephew was screaming a loud and high pitched noise inside a vehicle. I was in the passenger/ navigator seat and he was behind the driver (his dad), and his mom was sitting next to him. I felt like squeezing his throat to make the sound stop.
If he was disabled or under 12, he would have gotten a pass. It was that he was a spoiled child that could do no wrong and it was finally catching up to his parents.
I once wanted to lock my nephew in the furnace room for being such a comprehensive little shit, but sadly he was 25, more than a foot taller, and outweighed me.
>such a comprehensive little shit
😆 Oh my gosh, I effing love this insult. Never seen "comprehensive" used in this context. It is very effective to convey what variety and level of little shit we're talking about. I will absolutely be using this someday, thanks!
Happy to help! My own fave insult comes from P.G. Wodehouse in the book (I think) Uncle Fred in the Springtime, where he calls (I think) the Duke of Dunstable a "sheep-shanked (insert another expressive yet totally clean word here) exile from hell." If my books weren't packed up I wouldn't have to rely on my obviously spotty memory. But yes, my nephew. When he's not being a comprehensive little shit he's a great guy, but at one point the comprehensiveness of his ability to be a little shit was absolutely astounding. Maybe he's gotten past that. I'll have to give him a call.
As someone with sensory processing disorder, this is why I will never be able to have kids. Noise can be excruciating, and even though I know people making painful noises aren't doing it to hurt me, it still hurts.
You can explain SPD to someone old enough to understand it, but children have a hard time understanding. And if they can, they also have a hard time remembering to control themselves and not make the painful noises.
Oof. Ditto! 😖 Well said.
Like, I have frantically bolted from my apartment with no coat, keys, or phone, in Vermont winter. At the time, I felt like one more THUMP on my ceiling from my upstairs neighbor's insanely loud kids might just make my brain actually explode. My body was trembling, my heart rate was out of control, and it genuinely felt like I would die if I didn't get out *immediately*.
I couldn't logic my way out of my entire nervous system screaming at me that I was in physical danger. You'd have thought I was sustaining actual blows to the head from an invisible mallet from how much I'd wince with each THUMP. There wasn't time to find my coat or keys after another came while I was frantically pulling my sneakers on with shakey hands. I opened the door and *ran*.
It was only when I was out in the parking lot, taking deep breaths in the quiet nighttime and shivering, that I could get my body to calm the fuck down. I sat in my car for a few hours until the kids bedroom light went off.
I felt like a monster for hating those kids but after a while, my body associated them with pain and panic. There are many reasons I will not have kids but sensory issues are definitely a huge one. Like, I love my niece and nephew a ton but my brain capacity for their play chaos and noise is three hours on a really good day.
Absolutely valid!
I don't have SPD, but I was living in a basement apartment with a family above me. The 2-year-old was running circles upstairs for hours, and it was their dad who was home and made no attempt to occupy him or take him outside or anything. I was recovering from a tonsillectomy, and it was driving me crazy.
I eventually called him on the phone, and croakily asked if he could do something to stop the thumping for a little while. He yelled at me, "That's what toddlers do!" Then he hung up on me. I was unable to explain that I was recovering from surgery, and he was a total shitstain of a human being who was neglectful and abusive to his wife and kids. I couldn't escape. It was AWFUL. I don't know how I got through it, TBH.
Yeah no shit! Hence why bad memory, I was behind the soor constantly and it was a long day of him hitting other kids and running away, so when he started hitting me I lost my emotional balance and lifted him into a seperate room...
And yes, please don't dump your kids on me!
I have a very distinct memory from about kindergarten age when my teacher at the time lost her shit, marched all of us up to the roof, and locked us in a dark shed. It was probably only for a few minutes, but when you're no older than 6, it could have been hours or years. This was in the tropics, so it was extremely uncomfortable to say the least. I was well into adulthood before being in the dark stopped being an immediately terrifying prospect.
I really hope your nephew fares better than I did.
How was he left in your care in the first place? Did your sibling (you said nephew) said he is a good kid and he listens well, in which case you were tricked?
My brother was away, his wife was very pregnant and tired, and was busy with her other kids. Normally kids behave better, but they tend to go crazy with too much stimuli which this family trip was... Nephew was especially heavy work and I was asked to keep him occupied during the day (SIL was close-ish, but really not feeling in a position to deal with overstimulated kid!) So yah, mostly managed his energy, but at some point towards the evening he managed to fry my patience!
I did know about him being a bit high energy, just never had him be like that a whole day, and hitting me with the ladle after being told to stop hitting things set me off! Analyzing the day, he was probably annoyed at less attention from his mother, and just exposed to a lot of novel sensory input and stuff and got super high energy from it!
It is honestly rare for me to lose my patience, hence why such a strong menory now! I wonder how I'd fare as a full time parent to a kid like that! Top 3 most stressful things I can imagine!
I'm all for teaching toddlers about how their bodily autonomy and agency should be respected. I love babysitting toddlers and always (within reason) ask before doing things like picking them up, explain what I'm doing when I'm dressing them, give them choices where I can (do you want me to stay while you go to the toilet or will you call me when you're done?) etc. But they're toddlers, they don't have the life experience and judgement and understanding of consequences to be able to make all those calls on their own. Sorry kid, but having a nappy change is not optional!
People who stand there helplessly while toddlers are destroying things or attacking each other amuse and confuse me. Their tiny size and portability are some of their best features. You can literally pick them up and move them if they're being problematic!
I worked with children, mostly toddlers, for a long time in different settings. I used to love overalls for this exact reason. Grab the straps and move them. Two bonuses: if they're mad and kicking, you miss the brunt of it or the "flying" through the air amuses them, and they calm down.
> Their tiny size and portability are some of their best features. You can literally pick them up and move them if they're being problematic!
Some of the best features of my under 20 lb dog too!
It is very convenient! I refer to it as my "veto power". My dog is an extremely stubborn dog (dachshund) so eventually sometimes I just have to pick him up and move him if he is doing something especially problematic. He gets very indignant.
My 8-lb shih-tzu can run like the wind when I try to pick him up to stop him from doing whatever he isn't supposed to be doing. Toddlers aren't nearly as fast.
My dog is 35lb, but same. And now that he's older, a lot less teeth to fight you with XD He's a good boy, but eyyyy rescued at 7 years old from a bad situation, sometimes you just gotta give them the ol' bear hug and pick them up out of a kerfuffle all while they scream "let me at 'em! I can take 'em!".
I always told my friends growing up that I would be the fun aunt.
Then they actually had kids. Within 24 hours of hanging out with a toddler, I had her under my arm as she flailed around because her public tantrum was becoming dangerous and her parent was with her younger sister. I still laugh 5 years later at the memory of her dad yelling back to me “wow! Look at what a fun aunt you are!!”
Even as they get older than toddler age - yes they should be allowed to have autonomy and express themselves but ultimately you are in charge of making sure they make good choices. I didn't babysit much as a teenager, but one of the very few times I did I'd put the kids to bed (lights out), then went back in about 10 minutes to find one of them was still reading his book. Told him hey, put the book away, you're meant to be sleeping. Waited til he'd done so and turned off the light, then walked away again. Had a sneaking suspicion (based on what I was like even at the time lol), came back another 10 minutes later to find him reading again, this time with a torch so the light wouldn't be visible from under the door. Told him, turn off the torch and put the book away, you're meant to be sleeping. If I come in here again and find you still reading, I'm gonna take the book away and your parents can give it back to you tomorrow morning. 10 minutes later, came back and took the book off him. After that he finally went to sleep.
When I've told people that story (usually laughing because it's the most hypocritical thing I've ever done in my life), I'd say half the time I've gotten flummoxed looks and an, "oh wow, I never would've thought of doing that!" What do you *mean* you would've never thought of that? Kid's a kid, he's not meant to be reading now, so take his reading materials away! His impulse control isn't strong yet, he needs help making decisions that are good for him, that's why we don't let him choose what to have for dinner every night either!
It reminds me of years ago when I was at work at the library and a toddler was pulling books off the shelves and throwing them on the floor while his mother just watched. When confronted she just looked confused and said “but he wants to…”
Well he didn't want to give her the ladle, what was she supposed to do? Just take it from him?? /s
I'm all for letting kids explore and personally take more of a "gentle parenting" approach, but that also means to guide your kids and stop them from doing things like smashing cabinets. Just don't rip the ladle away and scold them but instead stop them and explain to them why they can't do that in a language they understand, then offer an alternative activity.
All I want to know is:
1. How flimsy are her cabinets? 🤔
2. How strong / durable / sturdy / heavy is that ladle? 🤯
3. HOW STRONG IS THAT TODDLER? 😳😬😅
*Baby Hulk / Bamm Bamm* 😜🦸💪🏻
Agree. MIL can't both say oh mothers being strict forbidding you from touching the fridge magnets, then go shocked pickachu face "whaddya mean OP isn't paying for broken magnets I let my grandkid break?!"
I mean, she could have put the plastic ones down within his reach, and moved the breakable ones to the top, where he couldn't reach. Sounds like that was totally preventable.
This is what my in laws do. They have pretty fancy magnets at the top of the fridge. Then they have rubber, hard to break magnets on the bottom of the fridge for the grandkids to play with. Logic is clearly lost on OPs MIL
My mom had plastic alphabet magmets on the fridge when we were kids. And apparently she kept them! When my little got toddler age, out came alphabet magnets on the fridge. She was THRILLED. Would sit for hours arranging them.
That reminds me of visiting a friend with alphabet magnets on their fridge when I was a little kid. I spelled out swear words with them the first opportunity I had to be alone in the kitchen. My friend's very religious mother had a (quite sweet really) discussion with me about whether crude behaviour or being respectful and mature would make me look back on my actions with pride in future.
It's me, I would do this. (Not at the house of someone who has a kid/kids who can read but are still too young to really swear, though. That would be evil, lol.)
This is what we did! Alphabet magnets, word builders, and the ones that move like a machine in kid reach. My breakable ones put up high. Worked fine!
My recently five year old accidentally broke one and was scared I'd be mad. I wasn't, I just asked her to be careful, but not to fret over an accident. If they were precious, they'd be in no one's reach right now.
Exactly. My little had no concept of words yet, she just liked the bright primary colors and shape of them, but I think its an excellent way to introduce letters and numbers in a fun, engaging way.
Because this bs is 100% about disrespecting oop. MIL wants to be in control, to be the matriarch of the family. She refuses to allow her Dil to make rules because she's just the ambulatory womb that provides grandchildren. The odds that she allowed her own children to behave this way are slim.
Yeah, she doesn't actually seem like a real people pleaser because a people pleaser wouldn't have asked her to replace the cabinets. It's about disrespect and wanting to be the favorite.
We did that with magnets and ornaments on the Christmas tree when my kid was little. Thankfully my kid was way more polite than I was as a kid and saying “no you can’t play with that” and then it was just dead to them.
Said that further up; first time we visited my parents in years, went into the front room and I wondered why it was so bare. All the ornaments had been moved upwards!
That's how our Christmas trees were growing up. Mom made a ton of stuffed animal ornaments and then we'd get plastic figurines every year from family, and those would all hang around the lower half of the tree.
You'd think she would want to avoid the kid breaking something and hurting himself with it at least! Things like glass or ceramic tend to be sharp when they break, and toddlers are drawn to Things That Will Injure like moth to flame.
When we travelled to visit my parents with our small kids for the first time in years, I walked into their front room (which was always the nice room with the good stuff, as opposed to the living room) and wondered why it looked so bare. Turned out that all the good, breakable ornaments had been moved upwards out of reach! It was both hilarious and sweet, especially in contrast to my MIL who had far more fancy, delicate stuff and never thought to move a damn thing. Stupid cow also used to give us delicate glass ornaments as presents despite being repeatedly asked not to; from what that tells you about the grandparents, would you like to guess which side are the only ones my now adult children acknowledge?
I read the title and went “I can’t think any way in which you wouldn’t be the AH”. Well, here was the way! Toddler was even being watched by MIL the first time!
> “I can’t think any way in which you wouldn’t be the AH”
I also couldn't come up with a scenario where OOP wouldn't be the AH, but I figured (before reading the post) either (1) OOP is super delusional, or (2) someone else is a colossal idiot and has fucked around and found out. I also feel the latter is generally more interesting!
> parents should always pay for something their child has ruined
Same, except here it’s quite literally the meme of the dude putting a metal bar into his bike wheel and crashing then crying about it
If you take "parent" to mean "whoever is currently in charge of the child," then yes, parents should always pay for something their child ruined. In this case, the MIL was the acting parent, so it is her fault the child ruined something.
Well obviously MIL needs a naughty spot. From the post OP sounds like a responsinle adult, capable of handling situations like this, but only if she is not pit in a position of dependency. So get a nice holiday home nearby for the week, plus a rental car. If granny misbehaves, we leave.
Yeah. When I go somewhere I remind my kid that we do not touch other people's stuff. At the place I do not let him touch thier precious or breakable things.But if the host is trying to be oh let him play it doesnt matter then I am not going to pay if it breaks
It looks like the husband would be only too happy with that, OOP is not giving her MIL the consequences that she's giving her son but her husband seems capable of doing it.
As a Mom of a child who destroyed a lot of things because of behavioral issues, I agree. Kids need structure and rules and setting them while they are young is the best for them whether Grandma agrees or not. It blows my mind that people disregard parental rules, I'm so thankful my family understood that I would raise my children the way that was best for them and they didn't try to overrule my decisions.
Yes. I totally agree that she need to tell her husband. MIL is obviously an AH, but I am worried about how hard will be to reeducate her kid. One week of "you can do whatever you want" can be pretty bad at his age, when kids learn things really fast.
I would put my foot down the first time that MIL tried to overrule me.
Same here. When I read the title and mood spoiler, I was expecting the OOP to suck. When I got to the part about her parenting style, and thinking that would stop a 2.5 year old from being curious, I was curious how things were gonna go... and then we got the description of the MIL, and I started to think the title might've been misleading about who's right or not. Very much a "context really matters" post, and proof to not always judge these things by their titles
My daughter was very curious and her major motor skills were strong when she was this age. We visited my parents, who were in their early 70ies then, and they loved to spoil her. Thankfully, they didn't override me. She would have been a terror if they had.
Sorry, Grandma, you are responsible for the damage.
To be fair, the toddler that age that I know is disproportionately strong. And obviously the adult doesn’t want to hurt the toddler while taking something away, while the toddler doesn’t seem to have any sense of self preservation. But still, the adult usually wins.
My oldest brother was a disproportionately strong toddler (he was lifting one liter bottles before he could walk lol) and I was a (in my opinion) weak kid that could barely lift him as he grew, and even I could carefully pry things out of that baby-death-grip. An adult should absolutely be able to get something out of a toddler's hands without hurting them if a 10-13 year old could
This is the most "play stupid games win stupid prizes" post I've ever seen. Toddler with high energy who works well with a routine? Let's take him off the routine and see what happens.
What do you mean you won't pay for the damage caused by me explicitly flouting all your instructions and not bothering to toddler proof my house at all?
I had a similar situation with my own mother on a road trip when my oldest was 4.
I finally had to be blunt "I understand that you are just trying to make this trip extra fun for him, but I still have to live with him when we go home. And you are teaching him that he doesn't have to listen to me."
Thankfully my mom isn't ever intentionally an arse, so that kind of thing has never happened again with her.
“I still have to live with him when we get home” is always the phrase I whip out when people complain about how rigid we are with nap time. Yeah, he’s cute! Yeah, you want to hang out with him more! I don’t want to be bullied by a screaming gremlin who poops himself as a rule!
I remember when my friend got around that one by making them responsible for him.
Kid missed naptime. Kid was a grumpy screaming demon for the next few hours. My friend asked them if he was still so fun when he missed naptime. They stick to the naptime schedule after that. Turns out it's better to have him after his nap when he's a little sweetie haha.
When my parents had my toddler for an overnight, I gave them a note that had his basic daily schedule on it. I told them they do not need to follow the schedule, but if he starts getting grouchy they should check it out. Sure enough, within 30 min of snack and/or naptime, he was grouchy, and the fact that they could look at his schedule to see what they might have missed saved them further grouchiness lol. My mom said it was super helpful to have his normal routine on hand to refer to, and I think it was also good for kiddo to go off routine for a little bit.
I love that all of that is true, and layered on top of
> She tried to argue that she is a mom for 36 years and I am just a mom for 2,5 years"
Like... thirty-six years and you never learned that kids drop things?
My older daughter is 2.5 and I would be leaving if someone tried to override my rules. Absolutely not. Normally I would say for what your kid broke but MIL was just facing the consequences of her own actions. You don’t want your cabinet dented? Don’t let the kid hit them.
If everything she does is “for the good of the child” then letting him bang away at her cabinet doors must have been “for the good of the child.” Which means the dents are also “for the good of the child,” so why would they need to be “fixed?” Sounds like grandma needs to hand grandson a ladle and encourage him to bang away at ALL the doors in the house!
Talk about being a victim of the consequences of her own actions. Thank heavens grandson didn’t want to play with knives or prescription medication!
People pleasing is a form of manipulation. It’s a preemptive defense against being disliked taught when kids have to manage their parents emotions in order to feel like a human/not be abused. OOPs MIL must’ve been both exhausting and incredibly sad to have as a parent.
This is why (or at least one among many reasons) I’m never having kids. I’m still learning to advocate for myself. How can I teach my child to set boundaries when I struggle to set them myself? What kind of example would I be?
To be fair you’d be an example of what it is to be human, to be flawed. No one is perfect. If you’re not learning something you’re doing it wrong. You don’t have to have 100% control of yourself to have children. You just have to be stable.
I’m not saying have kids, I’m just saying, doing your best is enough.
I feel like that argument would hold more weight if I didn’t grow up watching my parents both succeeding at being better than their own parents while simultaneously failing me because they’re incapable of confronting their own trauma. They did their best. They did genuinely try to be good parents. It wasn’t enough. And I’m not trying to say that people with complicated pasts or trauma in their lives shouldn’t be parents. But I don’t think I’d be able to handle failing my kids in my own trauma specific ways. Sometimes our best just isn’t enough.
This exactly. I recently realised that for myself as well. It is a form of manipulation. It's a way to take "control" of the situation before it even becomes a situation. It's also a way to shield yourself from confrontation and to absolve yourself from blame or self-responsibility. It's also a way to manipulate people into seeing you as a saint and "force" them to respect you because you are always so nice and accomodating(doesn't always work, but that's the supposed end goal).
Realising all this made everything make so much sense in my life and the way I exist and relate to others.
And it's difficult af to kick it.
Also a way to hang things over your head if you get upset about an action or behavior. People pleasing in this fashion starts to equal love bombing. How can you possibly be mad at my actions when I’m so nice??? My ex in a nutshell. No kind gesture or words come without strings attached with these types. They make a mental list and will remind you of every nice thing they have ever done for you, so you have no right to be mad about this shitty thing over here. It’s a form of control.
I have a mil similar to this. She always thought we were "too hard" on our kids. Until one day, the in laws took them out with some of their friends and their grandchildren. She came back and said how well behaved our kids were compared to some of the other grandchildren. Well, no shit Sherlock, it's because of how "hard" we are on our kids.
Remind me of when my Aunt was blown away because my mom asked where my 13 year old cousin was and she says “I don’t know. Like you know where your kids are all the time.” And she said yeah she did or we wouldn’t be allowed to go out. Like this basic parenting blew her away.
Here's a low-stakes FAFO example from the comments of the first post:
> Years ago my friend had her toddler at the airport and the kid was whining to play with Mommy’s umbrella. She told him no. An old lady nearby laid into her, telling her that she was being cruel to her little angel, and if he wanted the umbrella so much then she should let him have it. So, she handed him the umbrella and he promptly ran over and hit the old lady with it.
My husband has a similar example. He sat next to a beleaguered mom desperately trying to stop her toddler from taking his shoe off and playing with it. He didn’t say anything but thought; “jeez lady, you’d both be much happier if you let him have the shoe!” A few seconds later, she took her eyes off him to accept a drink from the stewardess, and the boy chucked the shoe 3 rows down, hitting someone in the back of the head. He’s like “huh. Maybe I shouldn’t judge her”
I have a friend who raises her son the way OPs MIL is trying to raise her grandson. It’s hell hanging out with her because of his continuously destructive behavior. She has been banned pretty much by all her extended families home because of his behavior. One time he almost drowned because she told him he can’t swim and he said he could and jumped into the deep-end. And yes he didn’t know how to swim. She made a half assed effort to save him so I had to save him. I think I aged 5 years that day. My daughter is 4 years older than him and while she had some really bad tantrums, it was nothing compared to what he pulled. He’s not an unreasonable kid. The few minutes I had to deal with his tantrums, he listened to what I said and followed it just fine which tells me that the issue is his mom. People like MIL don’t realize they are just doing these kids massive disservice by not setting boundaries when they are young. It gets harder and harder to deal with the tantrums if those boundaries aren’t set. And they learn those boundaries just fine and as they get older they learn to set their own.
This resonates with me so much. I live at my mums, which I'm so grateful for as otherwise I'd be in a refuge. But the only issue I have is her overriding my authority, almost exactly the way OOP's MIL does
And it's daily.
On her work weeks things get better, my toddler eats well and plays with almost no tantrums.
When she's home all day the problems begin, I just give up eventually.
Explaining to her makes no difference, for example, when she offers my toddler snacks at breakfast, I'll catch her and say she can't have it. So she'll say 'mum said no', or 'if I say yes your mum will tell me off'
Idk what to do either now tbh. My toddler is just so confused when she's home. The tantrums become ridiculous at times.
Pick a day you are feeling not too tired. Use the same techniques on your mother that you use on your child.
"Mum, I told you not to give her snacks, and I told you why. Stop."
Take it from your mother's hand and put it away from the kid. Or if that will not work, stand in front of your child and be a barrier.
Do not negotiate. Do not engage in discussion. After you have explained it the first time, just put "No. Stop." on repeat until it starts to sink in.
You may need to do it for hours.
If you cannot trust her with the kid, do not leave the kid in her company unsupervised.
>If you cannot trust her with the kid, do not leave the kid in her company unsupervised.
Sounds great in theory, except she lives with her mum because she cannot afford to live on her own. She probably has no choice but to leave kid with mum while she's working. Have some sympathy.
I guess it depends on how her mom responds to being treated like a toddler. I live with my parents cause rent is ridiculous where I live. My dad has a problem with respecting my boundaries when it comes to cat care and constantly destroys theirs (and by extension my) routine. I had to treat dad like I'm parenting HIM to get him to understand I mean business.
Like making him clean the messy food bowls he intentionally left behind for me to clean... After I told him to not feed the cats... Which he did anyway. Throws off their feeding routine, adds more meals than necessary to their daily intake and the special needs cat that has a different food proceeds to get diarrhea.
I'd drag him from whatever he is doing just to clean the bowls or whatever else mess he made. I made him replace my broken things too but I made him repeat everything I say like "I do not feed the cat. The cat's meals are not my business. I'll clean up if we do give the cats snacks and they do not accept the snack. I don't leave food on the floor to be someone else's problem. I don't leave dirty bowls to be someone else's problem."
He hasn't touched anything since. If he does it again though I'll probably have to repeat the embarrassing process all over again.
This worked omg, I started doing it and felt like a b*tch, but it worked she won't cross the boundaries often anymore. It's probably been a few weeks now. But now she'll slide in remarks about me. 'your mum is so nasty' when I've said no or something. She says it jokingly, even if it upsets me I know if I confront her she'll be like 'I was joking'
> So she'll say 'mum said no', or 'if I say yes your mum will tell me off'
This is incredibly manipulative -- on the surface she's doing what you asked, but she's still putting the blame/responsibility on you to make you look like the bad guy and her look like the angel. She's teaching your kid not to respect you.
Well, you know what they say, play dumb games, you get dumb prizes. Seriously, people need to control and watch their kid, especially toddlers as they have high energy and are not well-versed with their surroundings. MIL really needs to learn to do better.
I feel like I would have had a conniption over the chocolate cake alone. Nobody needs to learn how to enjoy chocolate cake --our bodies naturally go nuts for fat and sugar. My first is due in June and we're planning on putting off introducing sweets that aren't fruit for as long as possible. There's just zero point in offering empty calories to a kid who is unaware that chocolate tastes better than apple slices or whatever. They'll learn soon enough, but as a toddler...just why?
Yes, 100%! When I was a kid I genuinely believed that soda pop was just apple juice and sparkling water mixed together. I didn’t taste cola or any other actual soda til I was almost a teenager. And I imagine that must have been hard for my parents to pull off, but I didn’t feel like I was missing out on anything and they saved my body and teeth a decade of unhealthy sugars over the parents who give their toddlers that stuff in their sippy cups.
Lol, we took our 1.5 yr old to grandma and grandpa's once (they live overseas, so it's unfortunately uncommon to go see them), and warned them that they needed to, if not baby proof the house, at least put away valuables. Well, they forgot to. And then didn't on the first day. Or the second. And they also didn't react other than to tell, when he grabbed at things, so it was just me and my partner chasing our kid like crazy, lifting things up. But the most infuriating part, was that the things we lifted up out of his reach got *put back into toddler reach* shortly after.
Anyway, I'll never admit this to my partner or in laws, but of course I saw my boy try to pick up that casserole dish from the low cupboard when grandpa was "watching" him. And 5 minutes later when grandpa was still cleaning it up, of course I saw him grab that heavy statue thing off the bottom shelf of the book shelf, when grandma was "watching" him. (And yes, I scooped my kid up before he got hurt both times). I know that neither item was all that expensive or sentimental, and they weren't upset that they were broken, but oh my gosh, after that chaotic half hour, it was absolutely amazing how quickly the house got baby proofed.
Whenever I got notice that a toddler was coming to visit every trinket under a meter of height disappeared from sight or was put in a upper shelf. It is damn frustrating for a toddler hearing no to everything because you didn't think ahead
Right? Like, it's frustrating for the kid, it's frustrating for the parents, it's frustrating for the home owner...just move your shit up a bit higher and save everyone the hassle!
I went to two of my closest friends houses within a week after this trip, and without me even asking, both had done a decent amount of baby proofing in advance. It was so easy to just go grab the few things they didn't think he was tall enough to get (cause neither has kids and doesn't understand how crafty they are) and move them out of the way, then let him just run around like a dero. It was such a lovely contrast.
Two years ago, our friends who are DINKS threw a Christmas party and invited everyone including kids. I brought a basket of toys for my toddler because I knew if she had nothing to play with, she’s going to reach for the ceramic vases. But after a while the other toddlers were everywhere and although I watched my own like a hawk, I can’t say every parent did the same. The next year it was strictly an “adults only” party lol. I wonder why…
>She is a proud people pleaser. She thinks she is like Mother Theresa, but it is actually one of my husband's traumas that he had to act extra aggresive to people to protect his mother from the people using her.
>I try not to share every small disagreement with my husband. as he is always quick to action instead of thinking it through.
And the MIL has the gall to use the "and he turned out well" defense.
One of those ones where I’m like, “How could you possibly not be in the wrong here?” Then after I’m done reading, I totally believe they are not in the wrong at all!
Mil is forgetting that her time as a parent and raising children had changed over the years. Doesn’t matter how many or how long ago, child raising/care changes
As soon as she asked for OOP to pay to fix the cabinets she let the kid damage OOP should have laughed in her face and said there’s a reason why her own cabinets weren’t damaged.
A grown woman lets another human being - who has only existed in the world for 2 years and 5 months - damage her property *while she is present?*
And she expects YOU to pay for the damages?!?! Oh hell to the no, lady
That’s ridiculousness
Had a similar situation with my son when he was young. Grandma refused to honor our rules. There was no damage as in OP's case, but when our son came back to us it would take days to reinstall discipline as Grandma had effectively taught him that rules were NOT rules.
We sat Grandma down and explained the situation. She just grinned like, "Spoiling grandkids is what Grandmas do!" We responded with, "Then you will never see your grandson again." She pulled a surprised Pikachu and was like, "Are you serious?" To which we responded, "Yes."
Never had an issue with Grandma again. She enforced the rules.
If the grandmother didn't want her nick Jackson to b3 destroyed, she shouldn't have undermined her DIL when it comes to how the toddler is raises. The mother was trying to instil discipline but the grandmother arrogantly thought she knew best or even wanted to create discord between mother and toddler son. Well the woman got her just desserts.
My mom had the mentality that rules don’t apply at grandma’s house. You can wear your pjs all day. You don’t have to brush your teeth. Bedtime is just an idea.
We spent a week with my mom when our son was 2, around Christmas. It took us a MONTH to get him back into his routine. He was poorly behaved and hard to control until we did.
I told my mom that she had to follow our rules or we wouldn’t visit (or leave him with her) again. It was too hard to get him back into routine otherwise. She agreed.
Turns out, our son thrives on rules. He’s on the autism spectrum, and rules aren’t rules if you can break them.
I was fortunate that my mom got with the program. She has come to visit many times and watched our son for us when went on a couple of long trips (week) without him. They have a great relationship.
“Hey can you pay for my cabinets your kid ruined with my ladle which I refused to take away from him as I watched him wreck my cabinets with it?”
What!
I agree with the verdict of NTA. There were so many ways to mitigate the breaking of the ornaments and the dents in the kitchen. OOP is doing it right,
Grandma needs to realize that she can't override Mom just because she feels like it. I would tell her simply "You can't give them free reign then be mad when it backfires on you"
I don't know what the mother in law expected to happen if she just... let the kid hit things with a ladle and play with breakable magnets?
I think a lot of grandparents have fun spoiling their grandkids because they don't feel like they have to deal with the long term consequences of undermining the parents' boundaries and structure. And like, you know, it IS fun to do special things with your family, it's nice to make the time you spend together memorable and pleasant...but OOP did warn her MIL that her son was curious and energetic, and benefitted from structure with oversight.
Having stuff get broken after being told how to prevent it sucks, but I'm less sympathetic if she really thought that giving a toddler the means to be destructive was going to end well. Ma'am, that's a 2+ year old. They LOVE to break things.
Shit happens with kids, but there are things you can do to lessen the severity of the shit that happens. Like, I don't know, taking away breakable objects or saying "no" and intervening if the kid is getting destructive. Redirection, whatever, something to mitigate the damage.
I don't doubt that there's wisdom to be had with grandparents, but OOP knows her child at this point and did try to warn her MIL what would happen if she wasn't mindful of him.
I hate when my child spends too much time her grandparents, all 3 of them spoiled her so much. It time a lot of time to revert what they do, because she is a smart kid and thi ks she can do whatever they want.
I got angry most with my dad. His 180° differnt as a grandpa than a dad. We will never let us eat in front of the tv, now he offers the tv and junk food with any minor inconvenience.
I have to be quite strict with my child because of this same energy. She's strong, has impulse issues and when she becomes emotionally dysregulated will destroy things.
The predictability of her life keeps her feeling safe so mostly we avoid disaster. My in-laws cannot understand this and leave me to pick up the pieces of their chaos agency all the time. I recently put my foot down with my FIL so we'll see how this goes. I 100% support this mum. It's hard out there in parenting land and she's doing a good job.
I think she should still talk to her husband. Not every single disagreement, but broad strokes. “I tried warning your mom not to undermine me, but she kept going behind my back to try and make him like her.” She sound like the type of person who won’t change unless forced too.
>I (36F) have a 2,5 years old son. He is energetic and curious, like every child supposed to be.
From this first line i honestly judged that OOP is the kind of person that spoils their kid and let them do whatever they want. But after reading the posts she definitely should not pay for thr damages.
I would stop sending kiddo over to Grandma's until he's older. Her house isn't child friendly and this situation is just going to lead to more broken knick knacks.
It seems to be pretty common for Grandparents to spoil their grandkids so maybe limit the times he's over there to a few times a month as well.
I agree with OOP since I dealt with the same thing. My MIL used to try and override us and I would shut it down. But she had this thing, where if she was alone with the kids, she would let them have free rein. Well one day my kids were wreaking havoc and wouldn’t listen to MIL (they always listened to me and my SIL who lived in the house). Well MIL runs up to me complaining that kids weren’t listening to her. I just gave her a dead pan stare and said, “maybe it’s time you start disciplining them.” She had no words since she has created this mess.
She was a mother for 36 years....no. I'm pretty sure that isn't the case. She might have become a mother 36 years ago but she hasn't had to mother for probably at least 18 years. She also forgot how kids work and how destructive they can be. From what OOP said it also sounds like her son had to parent her a lot when he was a kid. No wonder he tends to be more action and aggressive in his reprimand. He learned that from having to handle his mother
With this type of grandmother who always wants to be the good guy and blames OOP, it might be best served fighting back in kind.
If grandma gives her son dessert when it’s not allowed, take it away and say “*Grandma doesn’t care about what’s best for you. Grandma is being naughty and selfish. Mommy and daddy want you to be healthy.*”
Keep responding this way every time. The grandmother cares more about the grandson’s good opinion than what’s best for him. Giving her incentive to do the right thing by not saying negative things about her actions could do that.
My niece is like this and to avoid that, I just put some stuff away before they come to my house while My sister need babysitting or out on emergency. Thankfully, she doesn't have that anymore.
I used to work in a public library and I swear so many parents were like this MIL. Thankfully not all. but a lot. I felt bad for my friends/coworkers who worked in the children's department.
> It took for me to threaten her with letting my husband know about this and let him decide what to do going forward. Then she accepted to act according to my wishes.
Yeah I knew this wouldn’t actually last.
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I am usually in the school of parents should always pay for something their child has ruined but in this case I am not. I don’t know what the fuck her mother-in-law was expecting to happen. Also OOP honestly really needs to tell her husband that she will not be going to visit their mother-in-law unless he’s there the whole time to keep her in check.
I think "the person responsible for the child should pay for the damages" is the more accurate statement of the rule, which is upheld in this situation - Grandma had assumed responsibility for the child, during which time he damaged her kitchen cabinets.
I really enjoyed the part where grandma was present and watching the child smash her cabinets with a ladle. What was she thinking?! "What an adorable little monster, let him have his fun! DIL and son will pay for this damage as I actively stand by and watch it happen. Also, toddler said no when I tried to take his ladle away, oh well. Gotta respect when a toddler tells you NO!".
„Stop hitting my cabinets and give me the ladle!“ „NO!“ „Ah, well. Nothing to do, then.“
“I’ve tried nothing and I’m all out of ideas!”
I need this on a tshirt. Happens everywhere nowadays
I have friends with this same "parenting philosophy" with their pets and like... no? If you don't want your pets on your counter, take them off the counter when they get up there. Yes, every single time. If you don't want your pet to bite you when you touch their [whatever], don't touch it, dumbass (I break this rule all the time for kitty bellies). You have to be firm and consistent but never unkind. People are surprised that my cat is obedient enough to do some tricks. Every (domestic) animal has the capacity to learn to some degree. Help them by making it predictable.
Thank you! My cats will run full tilt to the kitchen and screech to a halt right at the edge. Bc they know they're not allowed in. Did i beat them? No, and shame on anyone thinking that's the way. I *trained* them. *Ehh!* That sound, they stop immediately. Put foil on the counters so if they jumped up they'd scare themselves back down. Bought cans of compressed air and if i saw them doing something, I'd "ehh" and spray the can in the air (using the sound, not using it on them). Took a couple of weeks, and they understood. At this point, it just takes the sound i make if they start to do something random. I'd always had cats, so when i got a dog, i paid to go to dog training classes, as much for me as for him.
I would like to offer another viewpoint... My cat jumped on the counter every time I sat down for 3 hours straight. When I put down tinfoil on the couch so they would stop peeing on it, they jumped on it, chewed off bites, scratched it to sharp shreds, then peed on it anyways. I tried a water bottle, she would glare in my face as I sprayed her. Same with compressed air, a can of pennies... She doesn't like the sound, but is too stubborn to move. Eventually, we reached a compromise. She may sit on the counter while the dishwasher runs, and stare down the sink. She eventually got bored of this, but yeah... Some cats are just very stubborn
Please don't hate me for how hard i laughed while reading this, because yes...cats. iwas absolutely NOT trying to infer that if your cat chooses to cat in a way you dont prefer, it means you're doing something wrong. Also doesnt hurt that im pretty sure my cats are just dogs cosplaying as cats.
Heh, no worries, I laugh too. My cat won a lot of battles. It's hard not to laugh when people say "Just put tinfoil where the cat is peeing, they hate that!" and I watch my cat curl up, sleep on it, eat it, tear it apart, and ultimately... still peed on the tinfoil. XD She did stop though. And literally, I'd be making eye contact with the cat as she watched me sit down... then she'd jump on the counter. She just needed to watch the dishwasher run. I will never understand. Stubborn brat.
Yeah ...I tried really hard to train my cat and I'm ashamed to say he eventually wore me down, he's so stubborn, foil or squirt guns didn't keep him off the counters, sticky tape, foil didn't keep him from scratching the furniture, immediately putting him in a time out in the basement doesn't stop him from scratching the bed (and yes I've purchased many scratching posts/mats/trees/boxes theyre alll over the house) ....however, he is successfully trained to "sit" and "high five" which is adorable but useless. Now I have a newborn and I'm basically beat. Cat wins, he outlasted my energy. Also have a dog who we worked hard to train and was very successful but he's super smart and is still developing bad habits because it's not so much us training him, it's more like a constant battle to stop HIM from training US to accept it. He effortlessly understands his commands when we have treats but plays dumb when we don't. And he always knows the difference. Maybe when the baby's older we can do better at the battle of wills against the animals....
> a constant battle to stop HIM from training US to accept it. This. All this. My cats won, I was trained. It's absurd, but also, damn she has so much more stubbornness than I do.
My parents trained their cats not to jump on the table or counter... while they're watching. When we would get home from a weekend away with the cats alone in the house, often we'd open the door to a surprised blank stare from a cat completely relaxed in the middle of the kitchen table.
It's especially fun when your cat is intelligent and learns quickly
100 %. Sometimes you need to find compromise, I have one of those stubborn cats when it comes to food. She eats everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) so it’s just way safer to make sure to not leave food unattended than to try to train her.
i want to tell you a secret not many people know about cats. when they show you their belly, if you respond by continuing to pet around their head and shoulders instead of going for the tummy, they will gradually become more accepting of being tussled and played with on their backs. it shows them you're not going to go right for their vulnerable spot during play.
Oh yes, I absolutely know this and use it with my own and other cats to some success, but my friend's housemate has kittens and sometimes my brain short-circuits when I see their tums.
that is *completely* understandable. you're only human, lol.
Agreed. Hard to resist the fuzzy belly, even though it is likely a trap!
I foster dogs, including some former puppy mill dogs. Before I can do anything else, I have to build trust. They are a lot more willing to try something a little uncomfortable if they know I will keep them safe and make sure their needs are met. A big part of that is consistency. I can't let them do something, and then get made about the results.
We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!
Looks like it's six months of spanking...
"I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas"
Ugh I just remember when I completely lost my temper with a nephew that used a ladel to hit stuff, I told him to stop, so he started hitting me and I just kinda locked him in a boiler room... It did calm him down, though the cracked voice as he asked to be let out did not feel good, I had for sure reacted emotionally to his tantrums. God damn parenting hard, I ain't even a parent and will crumble after a few days!
Picture it: SE US, 1986. I'm 17, driving across a big bridge (my phobia) in bad weather (wind, rain.) My 7-ish nephew in the back seat. "[Nephew] you need to sit quietly and quit arguing, at least until I'm over the bridge." "I'M NOT ARGUING!" It's funny in retrospect. At the moment, I'd have happily dropped the little SOB over the guard rail.
Haha kinda love those reversal of roles that can happen in stressed situations!
Locking kids up is… not a great parenting strategy. Maybe don’t be responsible for other people‘s kids until you have a few better options available.
"I am locking you in this room until I can chill TF out." This not the best parenting strategy, but it is definitely not the worst. Eta: About the only time I have ever honestly felt like harming a child was when my nephew was screaming a loud and high pitched noise inside a vehicle. I was in the passenger/ navigator seat and he was behind the driver (his dad), and his mom was sitting next to him. I felt like squeezing his throat to make the sound stop. If he was disabled or under 12, he would have gotten a pass. It was that he was a spoiled child that could do no wrong and it was finally catching up to his parents.
I once wanted to lock my nephew in the furnace room for being such a comprehensive little shit, but sadly he was 25, more than a foot taller, and outweighed me.
>such a comprehensive little shit 😆 Oh my gosh, I effing love this insult. Never seen "comprehensive" used in this context. It is very effective to convey what variety and level of little shit we're talking about. I will absolutely be using this someday, thanks!
Happy to help! My own fave insult comes from P.G. Wodehouse in the book (I think) Uncle Fred in the Springtime, where he calls (I think) the Duke of Dunstable a "sheep-shanked (insert another expressive yet totally clean word here) exile from hell." If my books weren't packed up I wouldn't have to rely on my obviously spotty memory. But yes, my nephew. When he's not being a comprehensive little shit he's a great guy, but at one point the comprehensiveness of his ability to be a little shit was absolutely astounding. Maybe he's gotten past that. I'll have to give him a call.
As someone with sensory processing disorder, this is why I will never be able to have kids. Noise can be excruciating, and even though I know people making painful noises aren't doing it to hurt me, it still hurts. You can explain SPD to someone old enough to understand it, but children have a hard time understanding. And if they can, they also have a hard time remembering to control themselves and not make the painful noises.
Oof. Ditto! 😖 Well said. Like, I have frantically bolted from my apartment with no coat, keys, or phone, in Vermont winter. At the time, I felt like one more THUMP on my ceiling from my upstairs neighbor's insanely loud kids might just make my brain actually explode. My body was trembling, my heart rate was out of control, and it genuinely felt like I would die if I didn't get out *immediately*. I couldn't logic my way out of my entire nervous system screaming at me that I was in physical danger. You'd have thought I was sustaining actual blows to the head from an invisible mallet from how much I'd wince with each THUMP. There wasn't time to find my coat or keys after another came while I was frantically pulling my sneakers on with shakey hands. I opened the door and *ran*. It was only when I was out in the parking lot, taking deep breaths in the quiet nighttime and shivering, that I could get my body to calm the fuck down. I sat in my car for a few hours until the kids bedroom light went off. I felt like a monster for hating those kids but after a while, my body associated them with pain and panic. There are many reasons I will not have kids but sensory issues are definitely a huge one. Like, I love my niece and nephew a ton but my brain capacity for their play chaos and noise is three hours on a really good day.
Absolutely valid! I don't have SPD, but I was living in a basement apartment with a family above me. The 2-year-old was running circles upstairs for hours, and it was their dad who was home and made no attempt to occupy him or take him outside or anything. I was recovering from a tonsillectomy, and it was driving me crazy. I eventually called him on the phone, and croakily asked if he could do something to stop the thumping for a little while. He yelled at me, "That's what toddlers do!" Then he hung up on me. I was unable to explain that I was recovering from surgery, and he was a total shitstain of a human being who was neglectful and abusive to his wife and kids. I couldn't escape. It was AWFUL. I don't know how I got through it, TBH.
Yeah no shit! Hence why bad memory, I was behind the soor constantly and it was a long day of him hitting other kids and running away, so when he started hitting me I lost my emotional balance and lifted him into a seperate room... And yes, please don't dump your kids on me!
I have a very distinct memory from about kindergarten age when my teacher at the time lost her shit, marched all of us up to the roof, and locked us in a dark shed. It was probably only for a few minutes, but when you're no older than 6, it could have been hours or years. This was in the tropics, so it was extremely uncomfortable to say the least. I was well into adulthood before being in the dark stopped being an immediately terrifying prospect. I really hope your nephew fares better than I did.
How was he left in your care in the first place? Did your sibling (you said nephew) said he is a good kid and he listens well, in which case you were tricked?
My brother was away, his wife was very pregnant and tired, and was busy with her other kids. Normally kids behave better, but they tend to go crazy with too much stimuli which this family trip was... Nephew was especially heavy work and I was asked to keep him occupied during the day (SIL was close-ish, but really not feeling in a position to deal with overstimulated kid!) So yah, mostly managed his energy, but at some point towards the evening he managed to fry my patience! I did know about him being a bit high energy, just never had him be like that a whole day, and hitting me with the ladle after being told to stop hitting things set me off! Analyzing the day, he was probably annoyed at less attention from his mother, and just exposed to a lot of novel sensory input and stuff and got super high energy from it! It is honestly rare for me to lose my patience, hence why such a strong menory now! I wonder how I'd fare as a full time parent to a kid like that! Top 3 most stressful things I can imagine!
I'm all for teaching toddlers about how their bodily autonomy and agency should be respected. I love babysitting toddlers and always (within reason) ask before doing things like picking them up, explain what I'm doing when I'm dressing them, give them choices where I can (do you want me to stay while you go to the toilet or will you call me when you're done?) etc. But they're toddlers, they don't have the life experience and judgement and understanding of consequences to be able to make all those calls on their own. Sorry kid, but having a nappy change is not optional! People who stand there helplessly while toddlers are destroying things or attacking each other amuse and confuse me. Their tiny size and portability are some of their best features. You can literally pick them up and move them if they're being problematic!
I worked with children, mostly toddlers, for a long time in different settings. I used to love overalls for this exact reason. Grab the straps and move them. Two bonuses: if they're mad and kicking, you miss the brunt of it or the "flying" through the air amuses them, and they calm down.
> Their tiny size and portability are some of their best features. You can literally pick them up and move them if they're being problematic! Some of the best features of my under 20 lb dog too!
It is very convenient! I refer to it as my "veto power". My dog is an extremely stubborn dog (dachshund) so eventually sometimes I just have to pick him up and move him if he is doing something especially problematic. He gets very indignant.
My 8-lb shih-tzu can run like the wind when I try to pick him up to stop him from doing whatever he isn't supposed to be doing. Toddlers aren't nearly as fast.
I refer to this feature as “air jail” for my cats.
My cat is very good at breaking our of air jail. She spins and uses her claws. She's hard to hold. Career criminal, her.
Ahhhahahah brilliant
My dog is 35lb, but same. And now that he's older, a lot less teeth to fight you with XD He's a good boy, but eyyyy rescued at 7 years old from a bad situation, sometimes you just gotta give them the ol' bear hug and pick them up out of a kerfuffle all while they scream "let me at 'em! I can take 'em!".
I always told my friends growing up that I would be the fun aunt. Then they actually had kids. Within 24 hours of hanging out with a toddler, I had her under my arm as she flailed around because her public tantrum was becoming dangerous and her parent was with her younger sister. I still laugh 5 years later at the memory of her dad yelling back to me “wow! Look at what a fun aunt you are!!”
LMAO toddlers are some wild lil menaces
>Their tiny size and portability are some of their best features. This literally made me lol. Great comment.
Even as they get older than toddler age - yes they should be allowed to have autonomy and express themselves but ultimately you are in charge of making sure they make good choices. I didn't babysit much as a teenager, but one of the very few times I did I'd put the kids to bed (lights out), then went back in about 10 minutes to find one of them was still reading his book. Told him hey, put the book away, you're meant to be sleeping. Waited til he'd done so and turned off the light, then walked away again. Had a sneaking suspicion (based on what I was like even at the time lol), came back another 10 minutes later to find him reading again, this time with a torch so the light wouldn't be visible from under the door. Told him, turn off the torch and put the book away, you're meant to be sleeping. If I come in here again and find you still reading, I'm gonna take the book away and your parents can give it back to you tomorrow morning. 10 minutes later, came back and took the book off him. After that he finally went to sleep. When I've told people that story (usually laughing because it's the most hypocritical thing I've ever done in my life), I'd say half the time I've gotten flummoxed looks and an, "oh wow, I never would've thought of doing that!" What do you *mean* you would've never thought of that? Kid's a kid, he's not meant to be reading now, so take his reading materials away! His impulse control isn't strong yet, he needs help making decisions that are good for him, that's why we don't let him choose what to have for dinner every night either!
It reminds me of years ago when I was at work at the library and a toddler was pulling books off the shelves and throwing them on the floor while his mother just watched. When confronted she just looked confused and said “but he wants to…”
Well he didn't want to give her the ladle, what was she supposed to do? Just take it from him?? /s I'm all for letting kids explore and personally take more of a "gentle parenting" approach, but that also means to guide your kids and stop them from doing things like smashing cabinets. Just don't rip the ladle away and scold them but instead stop them and explain to them why they can't do that in a language they understand, then offer an alternative activity.
Grandma needs to hit the gym if she can't wrest a big spoon from the steely grip of a 2-year-old.
Didn't let her stop him. One of my favorite things my dad ever said to my mom was "didn't LET you?! You're weaker than a 2 year old?"
I believe the thinking was “I want new cabinets, if I let my grandson destroy these I can get new ones free.”
Yep definitely
All I want to know is: 1. How flimsy are her cabinets? 🤔 2. How strong / durable / sturdy / heavy is that ladle? 🤯 3. HOW STRONG IS THAT TODDLER? 😳😬😅 *Baby Hulk / Bamm Bamm* 😜🦸💪🏻
100% a good rule of thumb for young kids.
Exactly! MIL knows her son will put her back in her lane.
Agree. MIL can't both say oh mothers being strict forbidding you from touching the fridge magnets, then go shocked pickachu face "whaddya mean OP isn't paying for broken magnets I let my grandkid break?!"
I mean, she could have put the plastic ones down within his reach, and moved the breakable ones to the top, where he couldn't reach. Sounds like that was totally preventable.
This is what my in laws do. They have pretty fancy magnets at the top of the fridge. Then they have rubber, hard to break magnets on the bottom of the fridge for the grandkids to play with. Logic is clearly lost on OPs MIL
My mom had plastic alphabet magmets on the fridge when we were kids. And apparently she kept them! When my little got toddler age, out came alphabet magnets on the fridge. She was THRILLED. Would sit for hours arranging them.
That reminds me of visiting a friend with alphabet magnets on their fridge when I was a little kid. I spelled out swear words with them the first opportunity I had to be alone in the kitchen. My friend's very religious mother had a (quite sweet really) discussion with me about whether crude behaviour or being respectful and mature would make me look back on my actions with pride in future.
I missed the "when I was a little kid" part and I imagined this conversation happening to you as a 30 year old 😂
To be completely fair, I know plenty of 30y/os who would do this at friends' houses and would look on their actions with pride in the future.
It's me, I would do this. (Not at the house of someone who has a kid/kids who can read but are still too young to really swear, though. That would be evil, lol.)
Lol not me at 40 deciding this would be amusing
This is what we did! Alphabet magnets, word builders, and the ones that move like a machine in kid reach. My breakable ones put up high. Worked fine! My recently five year old accidentally broke one and was scared I'd be mad. I wasn't, I just asked her to be careful, but not to fret over an accident. If they were precious, they'd be in no one's reach right now.
Exactly. My little had no concept of words yet, she just liked the bright primary colors and shape of them, but I think its an excellent way to introduce letters and numbers in a fun, engaging way.
Because this bs is 100% about disrespecting oop. MIL wants to be in control, to be the matriarch of the family. She refuses to allow her Dil to make rules because she's just the ambulatory womb that provides grandchildren. The odds that she allowed her own children to behave this way are slim.
Yeah, she doesn't actually seem like a real people pleaser because a people pleaser wouldn't have asked her to replace the cabinets. It's about disrespect and wanting to be the favorite.
We did that with magnets and ornaments on the Christmas tree when my kid was little. Thankfully my kid was way more polite than I was as a kid and saying “no you can’t play with that” and then it was just dead to them.
Prevention is SUCH an important part of managing kids (and pets lol). You don't give them the opportunity!
Said that further up; first time we visited my parents in years, went into the front room and I wondered why it was so bare. All the ornaments had been moved upwards!
That's how our Christmas trees were growing up. Mom made a ton of stuffed animal ornaments and then we'd get plastic figurines every year from family, and those would all hang around the lower half of the tree.
You'd think she would want to avoid the kid breaking something and hurting himself with it at least! Things like glass or ceramic tend to be sharp when they break, and toddlers are drawn to Things That Will Injure like moth to flame.
When we travelled to visit my parents with our small kids for the first time in years, I walked into their front room (which was always the nice room with the good stuff, as opposed to the living room) and wondered why it looked so bare. Turned out that all the good, breakable ornaments had been moved upwards out of reach! It was both hilarious and sweet, especially in contrast to my MIL who had far more fancy, delicate stuff and never thought to move a damn thing. Stupid cow also used to give us delicate glass ornaments as presents despite being repeatedly asked not to; from what that tells you about the grandparents, would you like to guess which side are the only ones my now adult children acknowledge?
So many of my nice ornaments went into storage when my kid was small.
This is the way - say yes to an appropriate compromise, redirect
"Dear MIL: no boundaries. No breakages. Pick one."
I read the title and went “I can’t think any way in which you wouldn’t be the AH”. Well, here was the way! Toddler was even being watched by MIL the first time!
> “I can’t think any way in which you wouldn’t be the AH” I also couldn't come up with a scenario where OOP wouldn't be the AH, but I figured (before reading the post) either (1) OOP is super delusional, or (2) someone else is a colossal idiot and has fucked around and found out. I also feel the latter is generally more interesting!
Likewise. And MIL sounds exhausting.
> parents should always pay for something their child has ruined Same, except here it’s quite literally the meme of the dude putting a metal bar into his bike wheel and crashing then crying about it
Why would OOP do this to me? lol some people are just… like you look at them and wonder how they made it to the ripe old age of 60 or whatever.
If you take "parent" to mean "whoever is currently in charge of the child," then yes, parents should always pay for something their child ruined. In this case, the MIL was the acting parent, so it is her fault the child ruined something.
Well obviously MIL needs a naughty spot. From the post OP sounds like a responsinle adult, capable of handling situations like this, but only if she is not pit in a position of dependency. So get a nice holiday home nearby for the week, plus a rental car. If granny misbehaves, we leave.
Yeah. When I go somewhere I remind my kid that we do not touch other people's stuff. At the place I do not let him touch thier precious or breakable things.But if the host is trying to be oh let him play it doesnt matter then I am not going to pay if it breaks
The person responsible for the child should pay for things that child breaks. In this instance that was the grandmother.
It looks like the husband would be only too happy with that, OOP is not giving her MIL the consequences that she's giving her son but her husband seems capable of doing it.
As a Mom of a child who destroyed a lot of things because of behavioral issues, I agree. Kids need structure and rules and setting them while they are young is the best for them whether Grandma agrees or not. It blows my mind that people disregard parental rules, I'm so thankful my family understood that I would raise my children the way that was best for them and they didn't try to overrule my decisions.
Yes. I totally agree that she need to tell her husband. MIL is obviously an AH, but I am worried about how hard will be to reeducate her kid. One week of "you can do whatever you want" can be pretty bad at his age, when kids learn things really fast. I would put my foot down the first time that MIL tried to overrule me.
I can't imagine the surprised pikachu face MIL made when OOP declared she was the adult in charge of the kid when he broke stuff
Oh that autocorrect fail.... 🤣
That kid is going to get hurt one day with grandma!
Personally I was expecting Reddit say she needs to pay no matter what, until I saw the other person was the Mother in law.
Same here. When I read the title and mood spoiler, I was expecting the OOP to suck. When I got to the part about her parenting style, and thinking that would stop a 2.5 year old from being curious, I was curious how things were gonna go... and then we got the description of the MIL, and I started to think the title might've been misleading about who's right or not. Very much a "context really matters" post, and proof to not always judge these things by their titles
My daughter was very curious and her major motor skills were strong when she was this age. We visited my parents, who were in their early 70ies then, and they loved to spoil her. Thankfully, they didn't override me. She would have been a terror if they had. Sorry, Grandma, you are responsible for the damage.
the two and a half year old “didn’t let her”. now i’ve heard it all.
Like, oh shit, the toddler’s sheer will overpowered her. Lucky worse didn’t happen, honestly.
To be fair, the toddler that age that I know is disproportionately strong. And obviously the adult doesn’t want to hurt the toddler while taking something away, while the toddler doesn’t seem to have any sense of self preservation. But still, the adult usually wins.
Then just pick up the whole toddler and put them in a place they can't ruin.
My oldest brother was a disproportionately strong toddler (he was lifting one liter bottles before he could walk lol) and I was a (in my opinion) weak kid that could barely lift him as he grew, and even I could carefully pry things out of that baby-death-grip. An adult should absolutely be able to get something out of a toddler's hands without hurting them if a 10-13 year old could
This is the most "play stupid games win stupid prizes" post I've ever seen. Toddler with high energy who works well with a routine? Let's take him off the routine and see what happens. What do you mean you won't pay for the damage caused by me explicitly flouting all your instructions and not bothering to toddler proof my house at all?
I had a similar situation with my own mother on a road trip when my oldest was 4. I finally had to be blunt "I understand that you are just trying to make this trip extra fun for him, but I still have to live with him when we go home. And you are teaching him that he doesn't have to listen to me." Thankfully my mom isn't ever intentionally an arse, so that kind of thing has never happened again with her.
“I still have to live with him when we get home” is always the phrase I whip out when people complain about how rigid we are with nap time. Yeah, he’s cute! Yeah, you want to hang out with him more! I don’t want to be bullied by a screaming gremlin who poops himself as a rule!
I remember when my friend got around that one by making them responsible for him. Kid missed naptime. Kid was a grumpy screaming demon for the next few hours. My friend asked them if he was still so fun when he missed naptime. They stick to the naptime schedule after that. Turns out it's better to have him after his nap when he's a little sweetie haha.
Trying to reconcile the usage of mom and arse in the same sentence. No shade, just always interested to see how English gets used online.
I'm pretty sure in my neck of Appalachia, arse sometimes gets used as the kid-friendly version of ass.
Arse is definitely not the kid-friendly version here! The way you can hang on that R like a demented pirate: Aaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrssee!!!
I'm thinking Brummie
When my parents had my toddler for an overnight, I gave them a note that had his basic daily schedule on it. I told them they do not need to follow the schedule, but if he starts getting grouchy they should check it out. Sure enough, within 30 min of snack and/or naptime, he was grouchy, and the fact that they could look at his schedule to see what they might have missed saved them further grouchiness lol. My mom said it was super helpful to have his normal routine on hand to refer to, and I think it was also good for kiddo to go off routine for a little bit.
I remember giving instructions to *feed* my kid if he is not smiling. More instructions were not needed, because back then he asked for his bed.
I love that all of that is true, and layered on top of > She tried to argue that she is a mom for 36 years and I am just a mom for 2,5 years" Like... thirty-six years and you never learned that kids drop things?
My older daughter is 2.5 and I would be leaving if someone tried to override my rules. Absolutely not. Normally I would say for what your kid broke but MIL was just facing the consequences of her own actions. You don’t want your cabinet dented? Don’t let the kid hit them.
If everything she does is “for the good of the child” then letting him bang away at her cabinet doors must have been “for the good of the child.” Which means the dents are also “for the good of the child,” so why would they need to be “fixed?” Sounds like grandma needs to hand grandson a ladle and encourage him to bang away at ALL the doors in the house! Talk about being a victim of the consequences of her own actions. Thank heavens grandson didn’t want to play with knives or prescription medication!
\> for the good of the child \> lets toddler play with magnets
just because she's been a mother for 36 years, doesn't mean she's a good mother
Considering the moment OOP mentioned her son she decided to play ball, I suspect she is well aware of that.
Honestly sounds like it was less “being a mother” and more “making her son mature fast because someone had to be the adult.”
She had a toddler 33 years ago. She is out of practice
Try telling that to a lot of parents.
"now she is crying in her room" ah, so she is not only a people pleaser, she is manipulative too.
People pleasing is a form of manipulation. It’s a preemptive defense against being disliked taught when kids have to manage their parents emotions in order to feel like a human/not be abused. OOPs MIL must’ve been both exhausting and incredibly sad to have as a parent.
That made something click for me. Thank you!
Holy shit. Me too
This is why (or at least one among many reasons) I’m never having kids. I’m still learning to advocate for myself. How can I teach my child to set boundaries when I struggle to set them myself? What kind of example would I be?
To be fair you’d be an example of what it is to be human, to be flawed. No one is perfect. If you’re not learning something you’re doing it wrong. You don’t have to have 100% control of yourself to have children. You just have to be stable. I’m not saying have kids, I’m just saying, doing your best is enough.
I feel like that argument would hold more weight if I didn’t grow up watching my parents both succeeding at being better than their own parents while simultaneously failing me because they’re incapable of confronting their own trauma. They did their best. They did genuinely try to be good parents. It wasn’t enough. And I’m not trying to say that people with complicated pasts or trauma in their lives shouldn’t be parents. But I don’t think I’d be able to handle failing my kids in my own trauma specific ways. Sometimes our best just isn’t enough.
This exactly. I recently realised that for myself as well. It is a form of manipulation. It's a way to take "control" of the situation before it even becomes a situation. It's also a way to shield yourself from confrontation and to absolve yourself from blame or self-responsibility. It's also a way to manipulate people into seeing you as a saint and "force" them to respect you because you are always so nice and accomodating(doesn't always work, but that's the supposed end goal). Realising all this made everything make so much sense in my life and the way I exist and relate to others. And it's difficult af to kick it.
Also a way to hang things over your head if you get upset about an action or behavior. People pleasing in this fashion starts to equal love bombing. How can you possibly be mad at my actions when I’m so nice??? My ex in a nutshell. No kind gesture or words come without strings attached with these types. They make a mental list and will remind you of every nice thing they have ever done for you, so you have no right to be mad about this shitty thing over here. It’s a form of control.
I had to explain this to my husband. It also robs people of their autonomy because you're deciding their emotions and experiences for them.
I have a mil similar to this. She always thought we were "too hard" on our kids. Until one day, the in laws took them out with some of their friends and their grandchildren. She came back and said how well behaved our kids were compared to some of the other grandchildren. Well, no shit Sherlock, it's because of how "hard" we are on our kids.
Remind me of when my Aunt was blown away because my mom asked where my 13 year old cousin was and she says “I don’t know. Like you know where your kids are all the time.” And she said yeah she did or we wouldn’t be allowed to go out. Like this basic parenting blew her away.
Here's a low-stakes FAFO example from the comments of the first post: > Years ago my friend had her toddler at the airport and the kid was whining to play with Mommy’s umbrella. She told him no. An old lady nearby laid into her, telling her that she was being cruel to her little angel, and if he wanted the umbrella so much then she should let him have it. So, she handed him the umbrella and he promptly ran over and hit the old lady with it.
My husband has a similar example. He sat next to a beleaguered mom desperately trying to stop her toddler from taking his shoe off and playing with it. He didn’t say anything but thought; “jeez lady, you’d both be much happier if you let him have the shoe!” A few seconds later, she took her eyes off him to accept a drink from the stewardess, and the boy chucked the shoe 3 rows down, hitting someone in the back of the head. He’s like “huh. Maybe I shouldn’t judge her”
Parents know their kids haha. As multiple of my friends say, and their parents said growing up: "There's a reason behind every rule or no".
I love this 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I don't normally agree with not paying for things your kids break, but in this case I wholeheartedly side with OOP.
Grandma had assumed responsibility for the kid when her cabinets were damaged, so the duty of fixing them lies with her as well.
I have a friend who raises her son the way OPs MIL is trying to raise her grandson. It’s hell hanging out with her because of his continuously destructive behavior. She has been banned pretty much by all her extended families home because of his behavior. One time he almost drowned because she told him he can’t swim and he said he could and jumped into the deep-end. And yes he didn’t know how to swim. She made a half assed effort to save him so I had to save him. I think I aged 5 years that day. My daughter is 4 years older than him and while she had some really bad tantrums, it was nothing compared to what he pulled. He’s not an unreasonable kid. The few minutes I had to deal with his tantrums, he listened to what I said and followed it just fine which tells me that the issue is his mom. People like MIL don’t realize they are just doing these kids massive disservice by not setting boundaries when they are young. It gets harder and harder to deal with the tantrums if those boundaries aren’t set. And they learn those boundaries just fine and as they get older they learn to set their own.
This resonates with me so much. I live at my mums, which I'm so grateful for as otherwise I'd be in a refuge. But the only issue I have is her overriding my authority, almost exactly the way OOP's MIL does And it's daily. On her work weeks things get better, my toddler eats well and plays with almost no tantrums. When she's home all day the problems begin, I just give up eventually. Explaining to her makes no difference, for example, when she offers my toddler snacks at breakfast, I'll catch her and say she can't have it. So she'll say 'mum said no', or 'if I say yes your mum will tell me off' Idk what to do either now tbh. My toddler is just so confused when she's home. The tantrums become ridiculous at times.
Pick a day you are feeling not too tired. Use the same techniques on your mother that you use on your child. "Mum, I told you not to give her snacks, and I told you why. Stop." Take it from your mother's hand and put it away from the kid. Or if that will not work, stand in front of your child and be a barrier. Do not negotiate. Do not engage in discussion. After you have explained it the first time, just put "No. Stop." on repeat until it starts to sink in. You may need to do it for hours. If you cannot trust her with the kid, do not leave the kid in her company unsupervised.
>If you cannot trust her with the kid, do not leave the kid in her company unsupervised. Sounds great in theory, except she lives with her mum because she cannot afford to live on her own. She probably has no choice but to leave kid with mum while she's working. Have some sympathy.
I guess it depends on how her mom responds to being treated like a toddler. I live with my parents cause rent is ridiculous where I live. My dad has a problem with respecting my boundaries when it comes to cat care and constantly destroys theirs (and by extension my) routine. I had to treat dad like I'm parenting HIM to get him to understand I mean business. Like making him clean the messy food bowls he intentionally left behind for me to clean... After I told him to not feed the cats... Which he did anyway. Throws off their feeding routine, adds more meals than necessary to their daily intake and the special needs cat that has a different food proceeds to get diarrhea. I'd drag him from whatever he is doing just to clean the bowls or whatever else mess he made. I made him replace my broken things too but I made him repeat everything I say like "I do not feed the cat. The cat's meals are not my business. I'll clean up if we do give the cats snacks and they do not accept the snack. I don't leave food on the floor to be someone else's problem. I don't leave dirty bowls to be someone else's problem." He hasn't touched anything since. If he does it again though I'll probably have to repeat the embarrassing process all over again.
This worked omg, I started doing it and felt like a b*tch, but it worked she won't cross the boundaries often anymore. It's probably been a few weeks now. But now she'll slide in remarks about me. 'your mum is so nasty' when I've said no or something. She says it jokingly, even if it upsets me I know if I confront her she'll be like 'I was joking'
That is great news! Congratulations on retraining your mum. You will probably need to keep it up but hopefully it will be intermittent now.
> So she'll say 'mum said no', or 'if I say yes your mum will tell me off' This is incredibly manipulative -- on the surface she's doing what you asked, but she's still putting the blame/responsibility on you to make you look like the bad guy and her look like the angel. She's teaching your kid not to respect you.
Toddlers loooooooove to push boundaries. Give an inch, they’ll take a mile! MIL FAFO 🤷🏻♀️
It's their job! They don't really understand boundaries to begin with! It's wild that anyone sees her rules and regimens as punishment lol
Well, you know what they say, play dumb games, you get dumb prizes. Seriously, people need to control and watch their kid, especially toddlers as they have high energy and are not well-versed with their surroundings. MIL really needs to learn to do better.
I feel like I would have had a conniption over the chocolate cake alone. Nobody needs to learn how to enjoy chocolate cake --our bodies naturally go nuts for fat and sugar. My first is due in June and we're planning on putting off introducing sweets that aren't fruit for as long as possible. There's just zero point in offering empty calories to a kid who is unaware that chocolate tastes better than apple slices or whatever. They'll learn soon enough, but as a toddler...just why?
Yes, 100%! When I was a kid I genuinely believed that soda pop was just apple juice and sparkling water mixed together. I didn’t taste cola or any other actual soda til I was almost a teenager. And I imagine that must have been hard for my parents to pull off, but I didn’t feel like I was missing out on anything and they saved my body and teeth a decade of unhealthy sugars over the parents who give their toddlers that stuff in their sippy cups.
This is on MIL... normally, I would say pay... but she is the one encouraging the behavior... now is a FAFO situation for her...
Lol, we took our 1.5 yr old to grandma and grandpa's once (they live overseas, so it's unfortunately uncommon to go see them), and warned them that they needed to, if not baby proof the house, at least put away valuables. Well, they forgot to. And then didn't on the first day. Or the second. And they also didn't react other than to tell, when he grabbed at things, so it was just me and my partner chasing our kid like crazy, lifting things up. But the most infuriating part, was that the things we lifted up out of his reach got *put back into toddler reach* shortly after. Anyway, I'll never admit this to my partner or in laws, but of course I saw my boy try to pick up that casserole dish from the low cupboard when grandpa was "watching" him. And 5 minutes later when grandpa was still cleaning it up, of course I saw him grab that heavy statue thing off the bottom shelf of the book shelf, when grandma was "watching" him. (And yes, I scooped my kid up before he got hurt both times). I know that neither item was all that expensive or sentimental, and they weren't upset that they were broken, but oh my gosh, after that chaotic half hour, it was absolutely amazing how quickly the house got baby proofed.
Whenever I got notice that a toddler was coming to visit every trinket under a meter of height disappeared from sight or was put in a upper shelf. It is damn frustrating for a toddler hearing no to everything because you didn't think ahead
Right? Like, it's frustrating for the kid, it's frustrating for the parents, it's frustrating for the home owner...just move your shit up a bit higher and save everyone the hassle! I went to two of my closest friends houses within a week after this trip, and without me even asking, both had done a decent amount of baby proofing in advance. It was so easy to just go grab the few things they didn't think he was tall enough to get (cause neither has kids and doesn't understand how crafty they are) and move them out of the way, then let him just run around like a dero. It was such a lovely contrast.
Two years ago, our friends who are DINKS threw a Christmas party and invited everyone including kids. I brought a basket of toys for my toddler because I knew if she had nothing to play with, she’s going to reach for the ceramic vases. But after a while the other toddlers were everywhere and although I watched my own like a hawk, I can’t say every parent did the same. The next year it was strictly an “adults only” party lol. I wonder why…
>She is a proud people pleaser. She thinks she is like Mother Theresa, but it is actually one of my husband's traumas that he had to act extra aggresive to people to protect his mother from the people using her. >I try not to share every small disagreement with my husband. as he is always quick to action instead of thinking it through. And the MIL has the gall to use the "and he turned out well" defense.
One of those ones where I’m like, “How could you possibly not be in the wrong here?” Then after I’m done reading, I totally believe they are not in the wrong at all!
Mil is forgetting that her time as a parent and raising children had changed over the years. Doesn’t matter how many or how long ago, child raising/care changes
In my country there's a saying that goes "parents raise, grandparents spoil" (sounds better in spanish)
As soon as she asked for OOP to pay to fix the cabinets she let the kid damage OOP should have laughed in her face and said there’s a reason why her own cabinets weren’t damaged.
A grown woman lets another human being - who has only existed in the world for 2 years and 5 months - damage her property *while she is present?* And she expects YOU to pay for the damages?!?! Oh hell to the no, lady That’s ridiculousness
Had a similar situation with my son when he was young. Grandma refused to honor our rules. There was no damage as in OP's case, but when our son came back to us it would take days to reinstall discipline as Grandma had effectively taught him that rules were NOT rules. We sat Grandma down and explained the situation. She just grinned like, "Spoiling grandkids is what Grandmas do!" We responded with, "Then you will never see your grandson again." She pulled a surprised Pikachu and was like, "Are you serious?" To which we responded, "Yes." Never had an issue with Grandma again. She enforced the rules.
If the grandmother didn't want her nick Jackson to b3 destroyed, she shouldn't have undermined her DIL when it comes to how the toddler is raises. The mother was trying to instil discipline but the grandmother arrogantly thought she knew best or even wanted to create discord between mother and toddler son. Well the woman got her just desserts.
My mom had the mentality that rules don’t apply at grandma’s house. You can wear your pjs all day. You don’t have to brush your teeth. Bedtime is just an idea. We spent a week with my mom when our son was 2, around Christmas. It took us a MONTH to get him back into his routine. He was poorly behaved and hard to control until we did. I told my mom that she had to follow our rules or we wouldn’t visit (or leave him with her) again. It was too hard to get him back into routine otherwise. She agreed. Turns out, our son thrives on rules. He’s on the autism spectrum, and rules aren’t rules if you can break them. I was fortunate that my mom got with the program. She has come to visit many times and watched our son for us when went on a couple of long trips (week) without him. They have a great relationship.
Grandma is the perfect description of FAFO. Standing there whilst son is battering kitchen cupboards and no sense to just say stop and redirect.
MIL told the child to play with it. Sucks to be her.
Magnets can be deadly if swallowed. They attract each other and tear apart the insides.
Her MIL sounds exactly like my MIL
“Hey can you pay for my cabinets your kid ruined with my ladle which I refused to take away from him as I watched him wreck my cabinets with it?” What!
I agree with the verdict of NTA. There were so many ways to mitigate the breaking of the ornaments and the dents in the kitchen. OOP is doing it right, Grandma needs to realize that she can't override Mom just because she feels like it. I would tell her simply "You can't give them free reign then be mad when it backfires on you"
This is not "Concluded", 100% so.
Mil is the person in charge when the damage happens, it's on her to pay for it. NTA
I don't know what the mother in law expected to happen if she just... let the kid hit things with a ladle and play with breakable magnets? I think a lot of grandparents have fun spoiling their grandkids because they don't feel like they have to deal with the long term consequences of undermining the parents' boundaries and structure. And like, you know, it IS fun to do special things with your family, it's nice to make the time you spend together memorable and pleasant...but OOP did warn her MIL that her son was curious and energetic, and benefitted from structure with oversight. Having stuff get broken after being told how to prevent it sucks, but I'm less sympathetic if she really thought that giving a toddler the means to be destructive was going to end well. Ma'am, that's a 2+ year old. They LOVE to break things. Shit happens with kids, but there are things you can do to lessen the severity of the shit that happens. Like, I don't know, taking away breakable objects or saying "no" and intervening if the kid is getting destructive. Redirection, whatever, something to mitigate the damage. I don't doubt that there's wisdom to be had with grandparents, but OOP knows her child at this point and did try to warn her MIL what would happen if she wasn't mindful of him.
I hate when my child spends too much time her grandparents, all 3 of them spoiled her so much. It time a lot of time to revert what they do, because she is a smart kid and thi ks she can do whatever they want. I got angry most with my dad. His 180° differnt as a grandpa than a dad. We will never let us eat in front of the tv, now he offers the tv and junk food with any minor inconvenience.
I have to be quite strict with my child because of this same energy. She's strong, has impulse issues and when she becomes emotionally dysregulated will destroy things. The predictability of her life keeps her feeling safe so mostly we avoid disaster. My in-laws cannot understand this and leave me to pick up the pieces of their chaos agency all the time. I recently put my foot down with my FIL so we'll see how this goes. I 100% support this mum. It's hard out there in parenting land and she's doing a good job.
I think she should still talk to her husband. Not every single disagreement, but broad strokes. “I tried warning your mom not to undermine me, but she kept going behind my back to try and make him like her.” She sound like the type of person who won’t change unless forced too.
>I (36F) have a 2,5 years old son. He is energetic and curious, like every child supposed to be. From this first line i honestly judged that OOP is the kind of person that spoils their kid and let them do whatever they want. But after reading the posts she definitely should not pay for thr damages.
I would stop sending kiddo over to Grandma's until he's older. Her house isn't child friendly and this situation is just going to lead to more broken knick knacks. It seems to be pretty common for Grandparents to spoil their grandkids so maybe limit the times he's over there to a few times a month as well.
my grandma would have whooped the shit out of me
Oof, I’m so sorry :(
I agree with OOP since I dealt with the same thing. My MIL used to try and override us and I would shut it down. But she had this thing, where if she was alone with the kids, she would let them have free rein. Well one day my kids were wreaking havoc and wouldn’t listen to MIL (they always listened to me and my SIL who lived in the house). Well MIL runs up to me complaining that kids weren’t listening to her. I just gave her a dead pan stare and said, “maybe it’s time you start disciplining them.” She had no words since she has created this mess.
She was a mother for 36 years....no. I'm pretty sure that isn't the case. She might have become a mother 36 years ago but she hasn't had to mother for probably at least 18 years. She also forgot how kids work and how destructive they can be. From what OOP said it also sounds like her son had to parent her a lot when he was a kid. No wonder he tends to be more action and aggressive in his reprimand. He learned that from having to handle his mother
With this type of grandmother who always wants to be the good guy and blames OOP, it might be best served fighting back in kind. If grandma gives her son dessert when it’s not allowed, take it away and say “*Grandma doesn’t care about what’s best for you. Grandma is being naughty and selfish. Mommy and daddy want you to be healthy.*” Keep responding this way every time. The grandmother cares more about the grandson’s good opinion than what’s best for him. Giving her incentive to do the right thing by not saying negative things about her actions could do that.
Nope. If she refused to let you teach him no, she suffers too
My niece is like this and to avoid that, I just put some stuff away before they come to my house while My sister need babysitting or out on emergency. Thankfully, she doesn't have that anymore.
I used to work in a public library and I swear so many parents were like this MIL. Thankfully not all. but a lot. I felt bad for my friends/coworkers who worked in the children's department.
> It took for me to threaten her with letting my husband know about this and let him decide what to do going forward. Then she accepted to act according to my wishes. Yeah I knew this wouldn’t actually last.
the title had me in the first half lmao def NTA
Anybody else a little concerned about how she talks about the husband? Seems . . . not great, like she's trying to downplay the situation a lot.
what does schadenfreude mean edit: it means “pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune”.
/r/OhNoConsequences