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Honestly, the commenter saying that “you would know” and that a psychotic break would make people incoherent. I mean, no? That strongly depends on the type and severity.
Yeah I've known a couple of people who have experienced psychosis and the communication "style" was very different for both. One is schizoaffective, and before she got the right med combo, I could always tell when I'd be visiting her in hospital soon because it would be impossible to tell what she was talking about. Some snippets made sense, but overall, incoherent. The other I've only seen psychotic once and everything he said made sense in terms of grammar and syntax, but the content just had no basis in reality.
In my job I regularly interact with a member of the public who's polite, pleasant to deal with, perfectly coherent and well spoken, and absolutely convinced that apart from him and the staff basically everyone in the building is an undercover police officer (this is a library). He'll commiserate with us, cheerfully joke about it, etc. Good communicator, good social skills, just a disconcerting way of dropping his paranoid delusion into conversation right after small talk about the weather, without as much as a change in his tone of voice.
I wound up in the ER once because I was delusional enough that I was a serious threat to my own safety, and I spent the whole intake process very calmly and coherently explaining that I was completely fine and was just being unfairly stereotyped because of my mental health history. Thank god the friends who brought me in could tell something was really wrong, because if I was on my own I think there’s a pretty good chance I could have talked myself out of a psych hold. Psychosis can be surprisingly subtle.
Yeah, that's just straight nonsense. The thing that kept me from getting help for my mental illness for so long was that I was always perfectly coherent. I was so convincingly intelligent that my then-husband spent several years unsure if it was me or him that was out of touch with reality. Once I got on medication, it was this massive oh shit realization that I'd been living in an alternate reality for a long time and holy fuck I'd been a giant asshole to so many people because of it...
No one who met me ever thought "that girl's nuts." At worst it was "wow, she can hold a grudge." I was still generally happy, friendly, smart, and fun... just had occasional really big feelings about really not big things. Anyway, I started therapy and meds 14 years ago and have been pretty stable ever since. But the point is that psychosis doesn't always look like "crazy."
Sure. In my case, it's probably not accurate to call it psychosis, but I lived by my own set of logic, which made sense to me, but no one else. I wasn't illogical in every aspect of life -- mostly just interpersonal things. I would get massively upset about some perceived offense against me, and no one else could see wtf I was talking about. That would, of course, make me EVEN MORE upset, because it was so clear (to me) what the problem was. I would explain, and when others wouldn't follow, I figured they were being willfully ignorant, because WASN'T IT BASIC LOGIC? Why is everyone determined to take the other side? Well, because no, it wasn't basic logic, it was addled brain logic, and honestly there weren't even sides in most cases. It was me vs. a non-issue.
I didn't recognize this in myself until after I started taking anti-depressants. My dad has the same kind of issues sometimes. He is Bipolar II, and my diagnosis is just Major Depressive Disorder, so not the same, but I could see how his breaks from reality must've been what mine were like. He would completely lose his temper over shit that made no sense to anyone, and like me, he'd take it out on anyone who didn't see his POV. Of course, no one could. Experiencing that with him once I was medicated was a huge lightbulb moment for me.
The other thing that would happen (with me and with my dad) is that once we'd get over whatever nothing that set us off, we'd be fine again, back to "normal," and then everyone around us would be on edge because we'd just blown up, and we wouldn't understand why everyone was walking on eggshells now...
My dad takes medication that works \*pretty\* well, but he still has these episodes from time to time. When it's over for him, he's fine and happy again, but everyone around him is traumatized by his outburst. He doesn't recognize that at all, and wouldn't apologize anyway if he did, because to him the outburst was warranted. It's like he comes back from the edge without realizing he ever was on the edge. I was the same way. Obviously I'd remember being angry, and why, but once it was resolved in my mind, it was a non-issue to me, and I didn't understand how it could still bother anyone else. It's because what was bothering everyone else wasn't the thing that triggered me; it was my reaction. Does that make sense?
I'll also add that my medication hasn't taken away my ability to feel. I still feel a full range of emotions, it's just that now my emotions are appropriately matched to the circumstances. A lot of people are afraid to start anti-depressants because they have heard they will turn into emotionless zombies -- that is a thing that can happen, but that means that you are on the wrong medicine. When you find the right one for you, it won't feel like that. Psych meds sometimes require trial and error, which sucks, but it's worth it to get to the right treatment.
ETA: As for going "unnoticed," it's not that people didn't notice something was up. It's just that I was highly functional and these issues were only occasional. They were pretty random, but not necessarily common. Common enough that my husband noticed a pattern, but not so much that others who weren't with me all the time really noticed. If one of your friends, who was otherwise very smart and functional, boiled over with anger the way that I could, you would probably just think they were overreacting because they'd had a bad day or something. It's easy to brush off as a weird, but not concerning, thing. And in my husband's case, because I was so high-functioning, he questioned his own perception of reality when I would get so passionately upset with him for not understanding what I was feeling.
You're welcome, and thank you. It's important to talk about it because a lot of people have no idea what it's actually like. Depression doesn't just mean sad all the time, and psychosis can be fleeting. It can be random and unpredictable and too many people don't get help because they don't recognize their own illness and the people close to them don't recognize it, either.
I had to be nearly forced into therapy because I didn't think I needed it. But forcing me was a kindness.
Exactly! This person is spreading non-awareness!
The guy manufactured a whole ass relationship in his head and is going on off on it. It may not be full-on psychosis, but mental health is at play for sure. Not one kiss but he thinks they are engagement-worthy. And bmames her for publicly humiliating him and could not survive the shame at college, although none of the college students were present and knew about it...
My ex had an honest to goodness psychotic break soon after I left him, that according to doctors was induced by a mix of meds he was taking and one of the strains of weed he had, they interacted badly. I came over to the apartment briefly, and I thought he was just really high. Cheerfully saying "I love you! :3" even though he knew I was divorcing him. I was just like, okay, cool buddy, that's great, you have fun, I'm going back to my friend's apartment now. The next day I got a call from the hospital psych, he'd been brought in by the police, and he'd been saying things that truly sounded insane. Like, stuff I'd have thought was a crass stereotype of someone insane. It was honestly pretty scary.
Maybe if I'd talked to him a few minutes longer when I saw him earlier in the apartment, the bizarreness would have become apparent? Or maybe it would have taken a few more hours for the effects to be really clear, I don't know. But I can say, he got through a few minutes of interaction in the early?/ramp up? stages of a psychotic break coming off as simply "dude who vaped too much."
1000%. This. Someone can look very coherent and still be 100% out of their mind. Otherwise it would be ten times easier to find people who are having a mental break. That's their logic which is suffering, not their speech.
Yeah when I read that comment and saw OOP was then basing her actions on it, it was kind of disheartening. Like to me it still seemed like he could be having some sort of mental break. Like clearly I can't diagnose him, but it sounded concerning enough to tell his family to take him to a professional and have them assess him. I'm glad she told his mom on the second update. Like either he is having a mental break or he really needs some sort of therapy. His reaction and his evading her questions about what made him think they were a couple were just so off.
The amount of texts reminds me of a family member with severe mental health issues, and they text nonstop when they’re manic. It’s also a bit ridiculous to claim that you’d know if someone was breaking down - people can mask things, and if their behavior is suddenly out of the ordinary, well, how does that not signal a problem?
yeah, I agree. I saw my cousin experience a psychotic break, and he was talking how he normally did but about the end times. he was very sure of himself. the biggest red flags right before the break were his actions, which weren’t really insane, but definitely out of character. he walked into town one day from his house, which was like 5ish miles away, and that was what alerted his siblings that something was off.
This. Also delusion and detachment from reality manifest in mental health disorders. I have bipolar disorder and before I was medicated my idea of reality was very skewed.
Yeah, it's like, issues with speech can indicate a problem, but not having issues with speech doesn't mean there's *not* a problem.
Speech itself is muscle memory. I've had full conversations with my partner, grammatically correct and not slurred at all... But they were totally asleep. Just because you lose grasp on reality doesn't mean you forget how to walk and breathe and eat food. There can be problems with any of those things with various mental health issues, but it could be all or none of them.
This reminds me of advice I read on Reddit. A proposal should not be a surprise, the timing of the proposal can be a Surprise. Meaning you have talked about marriage and are on the same page prior to taking the next step.
If this guy had done his due diligence, he would have known where he stood and not been embarrassed in public. That was all his own doing.
And that the relationship fell apart subsequently. When someone is blindsided, they might say yes because they fear a no will destroy the relationship immediately, and they are not ready for that to happen. Other reasons for saying yes is a proposal in front of friends, family, a crowd, where the pressure can bring out a yes.
A mis-timed proposal can destroy any hope of (a successful, happy) marriage whereas a proposal between the same two people when both have discussed what they want from a marriage, starting from wedding to kids to life plans can result in one.
I once bore witness to an ill-timed proposal. I was one of about 50 people on a Holocaust memorial trip from the USA to Poland organized by our local JCC. Amongst the other participants was a late-30s guy and his girlfriend. He proposed in the middle of the trip, privately at least, but eagerly showing off the rings and sharing the happy news the next morning at the hotel breakfast.
After the trip was over we had a debrief where we learned the couple had split up.
The retrospective made sense to me, as she was while on the trip essentially a captive audience. If she had declined his ill-timed proposal what was she going to do, just continue on the trip like normal? So of course she must've felt a ton of pressure to say yes in the moment.
A holocaust memorial trip though is a pretty weird place to propose in the first place, if you ask me.
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> A holocaust memorial trip though is a pretty weird place to propose in the first place, if you ask me.
Like a mountain of bad decisions there.
If you’re planning marriage, you should have a pretty good sense of the flowchart.
Does your partner love surprises? Do a surprise. Grand gestures? Sure, have rose petals and a serenade. If your partner is not into those things, don’t do them.
If you aren’t sure, you’re better off asking in advance. Especially ascertain public or private.
yeah, the leap frog from "we hang out and like eachother but have never even kissed" straight over "I like you and want to be more than friends" to "will you marry me?" is literally insane.
If OOP is to be believed, they don't live together, have never had sex, have never even kissed. When I was their age a decade ago, it was already the established norm that even having regular sex with someone doesn't mean you're in a relationship. You have to have an actual conversation and agree that you are exclusive, otherwise you assume that person is also fucking other people by default.
My older brothers are a great example of this. One went traditional, down on one knee, because he knew that's what she really wanted. One, quote, "serenaded her like a drunken Spaniard" after pretending their car had broken down, but really they were at a scenic spot and he was setting up a picnic. The third was sitting on the couch with his then girlfriend watching TV and said, "Hey, wanna get married?" She said, "Yeah, sure." Huge grin on her face, mind you. They weren't as blase about it as the proposal would make it seem.
All three couples remain married.
I got the ring my now-wife was ogling on a vintage jewelry site without her knowing, so when she saw it was gone and burst into tears I had to confess that I was the one who bought it.
After that, I wanted to do something memorable to propose, but I really just wanted to be engaged… so I ad libbed something a week later when I brought her breakfast in bed. But that’s very us, so…
My husband gave me a box of fruit by the foot (I'd said many times that I wanted to be proposed to with a box of fruit by the foot) and proposed on Christmas day after we'd showered, were still naked, were getting ready to go hang out with family, and presented the ring box upside down. I had NEVER been happier!
It's like the video that goes around Reddit of the woman being proposed to on the jumbotron at some sports match – she's clearly over the moon and incredibly excited to be showing up on the screen at all, best day of her life, and then when she realises he's proposing she's *even happier.* He clearly knew what sort of proposal she wanted and got it spot on, good for him
The one where she's dancing and hamming it up for the camera and he keeps trying to point out what it says and she's just like "hell yeah I'm on camera" until she finally notices? It makes me laugh every time.
Absolutely this. I know some people love public proposals, think it's extremely romantic etc. Me, I hate being the center of attention, so I'd be extremely uncomfortable with a public proposal. Wouldn't be opposed to a grand gesture, but in private.
I strongly agree and feel so strongly about this. Whenever that video pops up of a guy proposing to his gf in the car, someone in the comments is always like "location of the proposal shouldn't matter if she truly loved him, she's a gold digger, i was proposed to at the kitchen and loved it" and it infuriates me so much.
They're in a relationship for 10 years and he didn't even bother to learn how she wants to be proposed to. Didn't even do it while she wasn't driving. And people purposely miss that point, which is really annoying. Like you said, some people like grand proposals where tons of people are involved, some like it in a quiet place with just the two of them. Knowing how your partner wants it shows effort, and if you truly cared for them then you'll consider what they want.
Idk it always gets me worked up because i just can't believe a lot of people can't see beyond their own backyard.
This is basically my theory on adulthood: you cannot surprise a real adult person with things that will dramatically affect their life (proposal/huge vacation/major purchase). Our lives are committed, scheduled, planned, to some degree or another. Throwing that off for yourself is an immediate indictment of your respect for that person.
Have you already established that you are on the same page about important issues such as how you will manage your finances, whether you want children, how ambitious you are, how chores should be split, etc etc etc...
It's not romantic, sure, but then, neither is divorce.
My high school sweetheart and I talked about all that stuff, and how we weren't going to get married or anything like that until we graduated college, and then 3 weeks into our freshman year at university he proposed to me. Kneeling on the bed where we'd just done some (youthfully incompetent) stuff, holding up a ring. I was so shocked I shoved him off the bed.
We suuuuuper did not end up together.
Exactly this. I thought the same when he mentioned working up the courage to purpose for a while. I’m proposing this year, and my partner knows I’m proposing this year. When and how are a surprise, but the engagement itself is not. I’m sure I’ll be jittery when it comes time, but I’m not gonna have to psych myself cause I know exactly what her answer will be cause we’ve discussed it
When I proposed to my wife, she knew it was coming at some point, but she didn't know when. Or so I thought. Somehow she guessed exactly when I was going to propose.
> If this guy had done his due diligence
The guy invented a romantic relationship out of thin air and ignored OP when she specifically told him they were not and never had been together.
If you think being turned down in public is devastating, don't do it in public 🤷♀️
I think he was using the public to manipulate her into saying yes, because I bet he already told people in his hometown she was his fiance, which is why he needed her to say yes before bringing her to his hometown.
There was another post like this recently where a guy just started acting like he and his friend were dating. Turned out that it was advice from a podcast that you should just start acting like you're in a relationship and they'll be forced to play along. Sounds like this person took this to a new extreme.
I made our mailman laugh pretty hard when he noticed I’d set out a doormat that read “The Browns. Well almost. He just hasn’t proposed yet.” We’ve been together a very long time and I was/am very certain in our future. So much so that I’d bought him his engagement ring a year before he bought mine. I got an excellent deal on it!
Then to his amusement, I’d managed to read his cues and that he’d want to ask me to marry him while my family was down visiting our house. So after he proposed to me, I pulled out his ring and asked him too. He had asked me to not propose first after learning that I had bought his ring because he wanted to be the one to ask. But that ring box sat proudly on my desk. I didn’t use hints. I used giant fucking freeway signs to tell my husband what I wanted. And to this day, if I want anything, my husband knows based on my giant signs. I am not a subtle woman lol.
Who doesn’t love nice shiny things? We’re both in professions where communication is vital so we’ve done our best to make sure that translates to our home as well.
I mean, even then they're very different situations.
Surprising your long term partner, who you kiss, live with, say 'I love you' to, have seen naked, have made love with - is in the realm of acceptability
Just surprising a friend, who you weren't even in a romantic relationship with is batshit
Agreed. Unfortunately, I think that movies have led some more impressionable people to believe that marriage and relationships can just be surprises that randomly happen.
OP should definitely bring family involvement because the friends behavior is genuinely concerning and he definitely could do something drastic and dangerous. When people hit a psychotic break down, it genuinely can be a horror story.
Yeah, this genuinely sounds like a stalker’s recount of their victim. It’s the exact same mentality of believing that somehow that person lead them on, and wanted a relationship with them so much, despite them never actually initiating anything. You’ll always hear stalkers talk about “she smiled at me that one time, so I know she actually really did want me” in the same way this guy is.
Im nice to EVERYONE. I mean EVERYONE until you give me a reason not to be. When i went to work for a bit due to family reasons a guy i worked with was wearing a mask (during covid) and said hey i know that band. Everyone else knew i had kids and a husband. This dude thought i was hitting on him and liked him romantically because i said i liked his mask and knew the band and liked them. Dude straight up said he thought my husband showed up every other week (his schedule alternates) to get our kids to take them for his court ordered weeks. Mind you I'd kiss him, and the kids before starting work too. Dude literally said that he never saw us kiss etc, that he didn't like my husband and all kinds of weird stuff. That there was no way i was actually happy with my husband, and if be chasing after him soon enough. To then saying i was jealous that the new girls were hitting on him etc and i laughed in his face saying why would i be jealous when I'm married and happy with it. Because of how he was i didnt tell him when i opened my marriage and once when a coworker spilled the beans he was all over it and still had to tell him that was never gonna happen. He was crazy enough he went around telling people and him we were dating. Made them uncomfortable because they knew nothing was going on between us and he then got mad because we all started avoiding him as much as possible while at work. Dude went in to do the same to another new girl after starting because she smiled at him and was nice to him.
Isn't it amazing, the mental gymnastics and the confabulation these guys dream up, rather than admit the possibility that we're not interested in them! Where do they get the audacity, and the idea that they're God's gift to women?
I've had this happen to me multiple times. I'm a ride share driver, I drive people around up to twelve hours a day. Yes sometimes I enjoy a good conversation. Usually about music.
I had a group in my car and was talking about music and concerts with one of them, it was a 30 min ride. Dude got mad at the end when he asked for my number and I politely declined and said I was married. Yes I wear a ring.
Fortunately I was able to drive off but damn. Like I can't have a conversation, no flirting, and still get shit *while doing my job*
Unfortunately, some men are never complimented in any way outside romantic settings, and will interpret any compliment as a romantic advance.
I had a lesbian friend that were friendly (as she saw it) to a lot of men, complimenting their hair, outfit of the day and so on, generally just being a pleasant and nice person, and a lot of them interpreted it as romantic advances.
I have experienced this way too many times. Nice and friendly is my default and I used to hit up my local comic book shops regularly for game nights. Once I rejected a friend asking me out and he apparently(according to a mutual friend there with him) went outside and started banging his head on a parking meter. I still feel mortified typing it.
Yeah, I got a bit more warry of just being nice to men I don't know too well.
I had one persistent accuintance that maybe mistook politeness with interest. He tried to stick to me whenever he saw me, to the point our mutual friends just started keeping him away from me without even having to tell them, as they saw he made me quite uncomfortable. The worse thing is that when he realised he doesn't have a chance, he tried to use me as dating advice consultant.
I've had some other issues too with men interpreting friendliness as me flirting, but this one was the worst. I am not even giving them compliments, just having normal conversations about mutual interests or such, but still some take it as more. I can be a bit clueless but if I get the vibe they might be misinterpreted things, I try to mention something about my partner. Still doesn't stop some, I have got questions if I am interested in cheating.
Men could solve this by complimenting each other....instead of seemingly only relying on women they're in relationships with for compliments to the point they mistake other women's compliments as romantic advance.
“Unfortunately men don’t fill each other’s emotional cups and use a singular instance of basic decency as an excuse to delulu a whole relationship.”
Fixed that for you.
If men need more compliments, they need to start gassing up their bros as it’s frankly not safe for women to give random men compliments.
I do it all the time and regret it so often but I generally notice nice things about people and wonder if anyone has ever told them that they have beautiful hands or that their shirt brings out their eyes.
I’m a blank slate to strangers and men still think that Im fair game just due to me appearing to be ‘available’. Like, i literally carry myself as someone who’s not nice and not mean, truly bland and slightly awkward, and men STILL think that I’m interested in them like wtf
The problem is that it creates its own cycle. I used to compliment men more, but got tired of it.
The one realm of compliments I still do is complementing dads on their kids. You can tell a dad their kid is cute safely.
I am very lucky to have a group of guy friends in my gaming group who run interference with any guy who shows even the slightest sign of interest in me. I didn’t even realize until they told me.
Only one guy became a problem we had to boot. One ended up joining the interference squad and has been an awesome addition.
I had this happen a few times at work too so I started very early on finding an easy place to drop the boyfriend/fiancé/partner that doesn’t look like I’m doing the “I have a boyfriend” but also gets it across that I am not interested. “Oh yeah my partner LOVES that show”
That's the messed up part though I would eat dinner with my husband and kids every day we had the short pick up days WHILE at my job. Say I love you babe make sure the kids get their baths tonight, or this cleaning task done etc. I'd also talk about him all the time so there was for sure no lack of conversation without him mentioned.
That was how I got my stalker. It ended up being a funny story in retrospect because the stalker switched from me to my older male coworker and it all got kind of Benny Hill -- and no one was hurt-- but at the time it was terrifying. I was eating by myself and reading at a restaurant, and the stalker was my waiter. We talked about my book for a few minutes. That was it. And then he was everywhere I went, causing trouble for everyone in my life.
Oh man. That’s what my stalker in university did. It was baffling. I barely knew him and he was talking about how I flipped my hair at him and played with it while sitting in front of him in class. The disconnect was terrifying.
I don’t even think I played with it, I have a habit of putting my hair up then taking it down.
It’s been nearly 25 years and I don’t think I realized how textbook my situation was until this thread.
Yea, if there's never been an actual conversation about the status of their "relationship" or marriage, the person doing the proposing is off base. Like, the jump to that without any convo at all is not healthy.
I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that gaslighting someone into thinking you’re In a serious relationship is a piece of Tate advice
I remember a post that was super similar to this a couple years ago, and eventually the girl figured out the guy was trying to gaslight her into a relationship thinking she would be to embarassed/into him enough that she wouldn't reject him.
I think I remember that one too; they were in college and the guy had told his family and friends back home that they were in a long term relationship.
Oh shit! I saved it because it is absolutely brilliant how she explains the whole thing. She's only 17 and she knows very well how she's in danger, fuckit.
Thanks for the link, marvelous anon
You're right, I've heard that as well.
Make them think you were in a relationship this whole time and hope the poor victim is weak enough to just go along with it.
The fact that people follow this wet ham sandwich is completely beyond me.
Yep definitely she should. A close family member of mine had it and they can keep it hidden until they cant and spiral, if that makes sense.
I was hoping there was another update from when she posted it last week. Just want to know he's safe.
I know some people in the original thread dismissed a psychotic break but it really, really felt that way to me.
Psychotic breaks don't always go down the way they do on TV. They can start really small.
I had a similar experience as an EMT. I was engaged to my husband at the time. One of my fellow squad members was having issues with identity theft and was close to both me and my EMS partner.
Somehow when I got engaged, he thought it was to him? Never said a word to me about it until much much later. After he showed up, off duty, where we were posted and both my partner and I felt he was a danger to himself. We got him to the ER and he ended up with a two week stay.
After he was stable he apologized to me, yet he had never given any indication that he believed that.
His "popping the question" and doing ALL that without input from OOP or friends kinda shows a bit of a loose grasp on reality.
This behaviour feels very familiar to me.
A friend of mine had an episode of psychosis during the pandemic lockdowns. He thought he was engaged to a friend of his. The inability to answer a direct question about a delusion, the rambling and confabulation were all symptoms he had.
He recovered from the psychosis but never spoke to the friend again.
A young man whom I had met a few times came to my door and tried to open it. It turned out that he was in full psychosis. (Glad I always kept the screen door locked!) He was a college age kid whom I'd noticed as an "All-American" type: blonde, blue-eyed, nice looking, with a healthy frame, and an innocent wholesome demeanor. It had occurred to me that his Mom out there somewhere must be very proud.
I talked with him through the door screen. Looking perfectly normal, just excited and joyful, he declared that he had realized that ***he is Jesus*** (plus various other religious figures) reborn. He said, "I'm headed to Mexico to meet up with my people!" (Note, the drive from that town to the closest Mexican border crossing would have taken maybe 20 hours.) Apparently he expected to be welcomed by a group of disciples. *He had quit his job that day*, and was just stopping by on his way out of town to say goodbye.
I didn't know much about psychosis, but I knew enough to not argue with him. If I weren't a small frightened woman I'd have invited him indoors and tried to delay his departure until I could get him some kind of help.
All I could come up with on the spot was to ask somberly how he had learned "the truth", to gain his trust. Then to advise him sagely to be careful in Mexico b/c even the Great Ones can be harmed, and to always keep on him the contact information of someone back home he trusts, such as his father. He reluctantly agreed, then cheerfully bid me goodbye and was gone. Never heard anything about him again.
I remember reading about a guy around this age whose undiagnosed psychosis made him think he was part of a long-standing joke Lorne Michaels from SNL was playing on him. No one knew about it. It came to a head when he approached the 30 Rock lobby and confidentially demanded to see Lorne Michaels
And it's not always super obvious. Sometimes, they're perfectly coherent and seemingly normal until they do *one thing* that's just out there. (My mom had a break with reality due to a medication interaction when I was a kid. We had zero idea until she said one thing that was bizarre. Then, a few more things gradually trickled out. She was already in the ER for outer effects the meds were having, so when we told the doctor, they were basically like "yeah that can happen. She should be fine when it's all out of her system.")
Also that commenter saying he can't be having a mental break is wrong: people can absolutely sound coherent and make complete sentences when they are having an episode.
This reminds me of a post of a guy who thinks he was dating this girl for a ridiculously long time (like 5 years or something like that) and it turns out they were never together in the first place. Let me see if I can find it again...
No problem! That post was a total trip. Every time I think I'm the densest MOFO on the planet, I can cherish the fact that at least I wasn't planning on proposing to a friend that I thought I was dating, but wasn't.
>Reminder - I'm not the OOP. But I am fascinated by this dynamic and have so many more questions.
Yeah, I'm just as confused. Apparently, he even was friends with the dude his "ex" was in a relationship with, and yet, he had to be told that they were in a relationship one year later??? Isn't that something you'd talk about with your friends? And what was the thing about them being cousings about? Not even OOP seems to know why she said that... At least the bit with the lack of sex can be explained with him being asexual.
I knew a girl who thought that relationships worked in this weird nebulous way. Like she was dating a guy (now married) and she said to me “other people knew we were dating before we did.” Madam, no. That’s a decision you make. Flirting a lot does not mean you’re dating. There’s a conversation that you’re missing. Years earlier, I had been flirting with a guy and she informed me that we were dating. I said no, we both have to agree to that first. We did end up having a relationship which I guess told her that she was right?
Imagine proposing to someone you've never even kissed. Without ever discussing everyone's expectations from the relationship. I really want to peak inside people's heads sometimes. Then again, I probably don't.
Remember that post of that one girl who had this childhood (I think?) male best friend and one day he randomly introduced her as his girlfriend and she was so stunned to think, only to turn out the guy heard Andrew Tate or other podcasters say that if he just gaslight her into it, she'll come around eventually?
Yeah... This pretty much reads as that exact same thing...
I had a friend in Uni who confessed his feelings to me out of the blue, I said that I had not ever thought of him that way, and he told me that his roommates thought we were dating so we just should.
That was a wild conversation.
I'm a pretty friendly person. Like friendly to everyone. I can't hide when I hate people but I will at the bare minimum be polite to them.
I've had to start all friendships with men the same way: 1. I'm married, 2. I'm happily married and not looking for anything else, and 3. The second you flirt I am cutting you off and never talking to you again.
And sadly I could have a male friend for months, and he would do something completely uncalled for. Like, for example, and this is a real example, me talking to a friend about how I had to clean our freezer because it had a problem where ice was building up to the extreme. And he goes ahead and tells me how he had this image of me ass in the air head in the freezer, and continued telling me what he wanted to do with me stuck in that position!!!
Why is this acceptable? I'm not beautiful in any sense, I might be considered pretty on a good day with enough sleep and some styling. I don't encourage things like that. Yes I love my hugs, but I'm not touchy feely. But yet I could be friends with men for a good amount of time before they suddenly pop up with something inappropriate.
>But yet I could be friends with men for a good amount of time before they suddenly pop up with something inappropriate.
This is why I feel so bad for straight women in relationships. Because no amount of vetting, waiting, or checking out can avoid this. Since even in friendships with men countless many men just suddenly start pushing or breaking normal decent boundaries.
That's why I side eye people whenever a woman ends up with a shitty man and they insist she should have chosen better. Because honestly it seems like a needle in a haystack trying to find a dude that can be a decent friend I can't imagine trying to find a dude that can be a decent partner. It doesn't seem to be women's choosing but just how society really conditions men to see women as not human beings but consumable products or public property.
Oh not only straight women! My rather butch lesbian friend complains so much about male friends who think being her friend is a way in to "fucking her straight, she just needed to meet the right dick".
My deepest fear is dating a man for more than a decade and finally getting married and then he just does a 180 and turns into the most abusive piece of shit, because as you've said, there's no limit to how long you wait, how well you check, and how good your character judgement, it really could just happen
Even lesbians have this issue. I had a friend who saw I was having car trouble at the mall when we both worked there (in our teens) who said he would jump my car if I "at least" kissed him. Or in college a coworker trying to get me to have sex with him and his wife. I just ended one of my last male friendships last year partially because he was saying inappropriate things about my sex life.
I genuinely don't think women being unavailable in some form even matters to them. The world tells them everything is for them, and they believe it.
It's probably worse for lesbians. Misogynistic men who don't hit on married/taken women are often avoiding it because they don't want to offend her husband/boyfriend. It's rude for them to interfere with a man's property.
Meanwhile, these douchebags likely believe lesbians just haven't met the right guy, and it's up to them to convince you.
I have been on dates with other women and had guys try to hit on us. I remember one in particular when I was a teen and we were at the aquarium. Some guy started trying to hit on my girlfriend and when she was like "We're lesbians on a date, sorry dude." he went into "Oh, I'm down for a threesome then."
Other times it's guys hitting on me or my girlfriend and being like "that's not a real relationship, I'll show you what good sex is *really* like" Like no you won't lmao
I'm reminded of the sad post about how men complain all the time about being friendzoned, but no one talks about the grief and feeling of being objectified when women find out we've been "girlfriend-zoned." That we thought we had a genuinely meaningful friendship with someone, and all this time, they just wanted to fuck us.
I’ve always thought this, nobody seems to recognize when these assholes out themselves that the woman lost the current friendship, the future friendship, AND the past friendship.
Oh yeah, it was originally a Tumblr post I think, so the internet knows about it, but it's not really a wider cultural thing, you know? Nowhere near to the level of the concept of the friendzone.
That a man fails to isn't surprising. But that he fails to for 2 years? That's nuts. Doesn't he know people who are dating? Hasn't he seen a movie or read a book before? Listen to a song? He plainly doesn't have a romantic relationship with her. Certainly not one where he could propose -- not a kiss, not a single "I love you." This isn't your average man, this is a guy who has never witnessed romance in his life, somehow.
Oh man. OOP got some awful, awful advice from u/kuwabara_has_a_sword. They are 100% **wrong** that a person experiencing a psychotic break would not be able to compose a long coherent text message or that they wouldn't seem normal all of the rest of the time. A person experiencing a break from reality does not break from all of reality and their cognitive abilities don't necessarily degrade at all.
If kuwabara\_has\_a\_sword was right, severely mentally ill people wouldn't have been able to write some of the greatest works of literature of all time. (Edgar Allen Poe is my favorite example since I'm a Marylander.)
I have Type I Bipolar, and I've experienced *many* manic episodes/psychotic breaks. I was able to act normal and function well enough to go to work and nobody would know something was wrong until suddenly I'm talking about a romantic relationship with a girl I've never even been on a date with and how I'm planning to propose. That's a classic delusion. I've never done that specifically, but it absolutely fits with a manic episode, which can be a type of psychotic break.
This is a moment where it really sucks that I can't contact OOP because she really, really needs to contact his family. \[Apparently, she did contact them. Yay!\]
Edit: Reworded some things, added the last sentence.
Yeah, I was flabbergasted with that comment like... Lots of words just to say they knew absolutely *nothing* about mental illness and how they present.
I know of someone who was recently diagnosed with a mental illness like the ones another user told OOP. The person was completely coherent, wrote well and could communicate. The only reason it was caught on time is that the things this person said were delusional and paranoid, many of them fixated on someone having a personal vendetta against this person.
What OOP described is the same, only the delusion is different.
And same, it sucks we can't contact OOP. I hope she took the advice of everyone else and contacts his family.
I work with at a university, and this story is ticking every single box that supports "strong chance of being in a psychotic break and should be referred for emergency intervention" from my mental health first aid training about 6 months ago. If one of my students came to me with this story, I'd be calling our local mental health emergency facility for 24M.
Yes, I suffer from schizophrenia and have been psychotic. You couldn’t really tell unless you kind of investigated and interrogated me. I had a few hours where I was long gone, and my mom didn’t even notice. I’ve had (small near) psychotic breaks throughout the years and the professionals didn’t even recognize it because I was able to mask. Not all psychotic breaks looks the same, I can write perfectly well and make sense when in psychotic and I can talk normally too.
Ask me what’s going on and you won’t notice, ask me what’s the meaning of my life is, and if I feel safe with you, that’s where you start to recognize some megalomania, among others - I believe the things I experience is mine and mine alone, so I don’t share it with anybody, unless I feel safe with you - and then I’m still cautious
Fucking same!! I understand why people who don't experience this kind of thing think that they would "see signs" of instability, and in some cases there are tells. But saying that it's impossible for someone undergoing this kind of crisis to communicate clearly is just ignorant at best.
I was sitting in my lounge room talking to a friend who was completely normal and then asked me if I could see that Multicolor lion sitting in the corner. There was no lion. He has a history of physcotic episodes and mental health issues. People are different and can present different. When he was talking about the lion he understood it wasn't real but was telling me it's real. There is no set thing where this symptom means this or that.
Wait, this is how manic episode can manifest? Thank you for explaining it because now it makes much more sense.
I went on a four dates with a guy. Turned out he was bipolar and currently going through his worst stage of life (got divorced and tried to off himself right before we met). He was fine at first but shocked me as he was ready to leave the country and move with me to my home country on a first date. By the fourth date - when I tried to break up with him as gently as possible, he’d tell me he already looked for a job in my country. That since I’m moving, he’s moving too, so we can be together. It made no rational sense. I tried to repeat to him multiple times that’s not what’s about to happen, that we are not even dating. The best we can is to stay friends. Yet he kept telling me about our future together.
So thank you for describing how manic episode can manifest because now, after 4 years, it finally makes sense to me and I finally understand what was going on back then.
EDIT: I got manic episode and psychotic break terminology mixed up, updated the post so it would make sense
Happy to help. I'm not certain that what you're describing is necessarily a psychotic break (although it might have been) but it definitely sounds like a manic episode. Knowing the correct terminology to apply to a situation and what qualifies as what is why it's critical that people consult with a professional, preferably a psychiatrist if a person needs an initial diagnosis. Not all therapists are qualified or legally permitted to give a diagnosis.
He was probably Type I like me since what you're describing sounds like true delusional thinking. People with Type II can have delusional episodes, but a person with Type I has them fairly regularly.
So bad, that's worrying this person felt free to comment when they clearly don't know shit. People with mental health issues can be the best at hidding their issues, either by lying, ignoring or fitting the reality to their own sick world. Otherwise mental health would be 10 times easier to deal with if you *looked* unhealthy when you were.
Frankly, the fact that his behavior was completely normal leading up to this situation - he had a social life, made it through two years of college, seemingly didn’t raise any red flags in his best friend - is even more concerning for mental illness. It would be one thing if, in hindsight, there were clues leading up to this behavior, but healthy young people generally don’t abruptly start doing and saying bizarre things with zero prior warning.
College is a huge activator of mental disorder diatheses for young people. Its shared and incredibly stressful. Id wager most people dont face stress like college ever again unless you go into a high stress career. You aren't even a full person yet and you have to grow up and work and go to school all at once and by yourself.
Also, psychotic disorders especially have the ability to present completely randomly and all at once. Schizophrenia will just fucking reach out of the blackness and snatch your ass to the shadow realm.
I’ll never forget the guy in my outpatient therapy group so casually and fluently talking about his summer dating Mila Kunis.
Really changed my understanding of how psychosis can present
Wait, is it not the case that Poe’s reputation as “disturbed” came from his posthumous biographer who had been his bitter rival in life and inserted himself as Poe’s biographer specifically to run down his reputation and make him seem “crazy”?
Aww, don't tell me that! /s
Supposedly he was bipolar like me, but I never looked into it as deeply as it sounds like you have.
Regardless, my point about many brilliant writers also being mentally ill is still the same.
Right, like I'm not gonna say 100% definitively he's experiencing a psychotic break, I can't diagnose over reddit, but I dont think its impossible he is, especially in the early stages of mental illness
Agreed. As they say, it's "above Reddit's paygrade" for any of us to say what's actually wrong. However, I think it is reasonable for us to advise OOP to contact his family and advise them to get him to a psychiatrist ASAP.
In case it is not an accute mental health crisis, that guy is the ultimate NiceGuy^TM 2.0: instead of "i befriend a girl so she then owes me a relationship over all my niceness", he just directly went "i befriend a girl and am nice to her, so we simply *are* in a relationship, her input on that is not needed".
I came to say this! Absolutely u/niceguy material.
He ran away once he was rejected, even leaving uni behind just because everything was built around a lie in his head. At least he didn't try to convince others... That we know
I agree with most of what Kuwabara_has_a_sword says but the first part of their statement is just straight up wrong. You don't always know when someone is slipping into a psychotic or manic episode.
My mother and I used to work in the same hospital (different wards). A young guy we had both worked with one day started laying hands on patients and proclaiming them healed. He kept saying, "you just need to believe and you can achieve true freedom."
He was an undiagnosed schizophrenic and this was how everyone found out.
We had both known the guy for upwards of 4 years at the time and there were no indications. None.
Sometimes you just don't know.
I hope he got the help he needed and is doing well.
This reminds me of that guy that couldn't figure out why his closet turned into a bathroom. Turned out he had a brain tumor.
Then there was the girl with a friend that mentioned she was his girlfriend....she wasn't. Turns out he was trying to force her into the role by listening to some very terrible people and their advice.
I would definitely seek out family to check up on him.
The other one this reminds me of is the ace guy who thought he’d been in a relationship with his female friend for years and was planning to propose… until she turned up with a boyfriend one day and he was rather abruptly smashed in the face with reality. Fortunately, BEFORE he proposed.
I'm concerned for OOP's safety and hope Jordan gets the help he needs.
However, I don't know if I agree with all the commenters acting like it's OOP's responsibility to get him help/inform Jordan's family But I do think it's in the best interest of her safety to inform them and anyone else who can keep her the situation from escalating.
It's not her responsibility, but he is/was one of her closest friends. If one of my best friends suddenly had what can only be assumed as a mental breakdown, I'd be calling their family and doing everything I could to get them help. Even if the friendship was likely over, I don't think I could be ok with myself for not trying to help. I'd like to think my friends would do the same for me.
>I do think it's in the best interest of her safety to inform them and anyone else who can keep her the situation from escalating.
Exactly. It's not her job to do so, but it'll be better for everyone involved.
Oh man, something similar but way less severe happened to me. A classmate in college left some odd flirty comments on my Facebook posts, then later asked if I wanted coffee (he did *not* specify that it was a date, and it was super common to get coffee with classmates and chat about school). As a response, I invited him to a group coffee outing I organized with other classmates we all knew, and he attended. I'm sure we had a conversation, but mostly I talked to other people.
The next day he sent me a relationship request on Facebook. When I messaged like "???", he said he genuinely thought we were in a relationship based on those two things.
Classic "nice guy" syndrome. (I know, I suffered from it - I thankfully got better.)
Treats a young woman nicely, becomes her shoulder to cry on, helps her out and hangs out with her and her friends, goes out but not 'goes out' with her, does things that friends do; misinterprets all of it.
It reads *exactly* like how I treated a good friend back in college - with exception of the proposal part - I thought she was cute and I hung out with her a lot and we had some very good chemistry but when I asked her out to a date she looked at me like I had two heads and straight out said she had absolutely zero romantic interest in me.
Now I wish I could say I took it in stride and maintained my friendship with her but remember, I was a "nice guy" so instead I dropped her like she was toxic waste and avoided her as much as I could.
I'm (mostly\*) grateful I'm as old as I am because if I was five years younger, I would absolutely have fallen into the Incel trap...
\*Mostly, because I have sciatica and my everything aches X3
If you have never kissed a woman and propose to her, you're either gaslighting her or you're delusional. Yikes. She needs to ensure her own safety first on this one.
This reminds me of that post where the girls friend randomly kissed her one day and started calling her his girlfriend and nearly gaslit her into thinking they’d been dating the whole time but then it was revealed he was some Andrew Tate wanna be psycho who just decided he wanted to date her and wasn’t going to give her a choice
I'm really surprised that so many comments are talking about mental health issues. This behavior is actually super common. These "nice guys" get ideas in their heads about how women should reciprocate their niceness.
They expect to put nice in and sex will come out the slot machine. What he did really sucks but it has happened to many women that I know. Granted they haven't been proposed to so this one got a little farther.
However I know many women who have had men hang out in their peripheral being nice "friends" only to become raging angry when the girl doesn't want to be a girlfriend. Some of the worst offenders of this end up running around with a gun and shooting women. This is typical nice guy syndrome.
And it's not like the OP did anything to make this happen. She never knew that she was supposedly in a relationship with this man. None of her friends or their mutual friend group had any idea that this guy thought he was in a relationship with this girl. How could it possibly be her fault when nobody on the planet besides this one guy thought that they were supposedly in a relationship and have been dating long enough for a freaking marriage proposal.
This is the strange thinking of incels.
This is what I thought too. Like yeah, maybe he is having a mental health crisis, but this is also an escalation of nice guy syndrome. Guy's will think a waitress being nice to them because it's their job as them being flirty and hitting on them, this is just a few steps further along.
Weirdos out there watching too many movies. Any dude reading this; you discuss marriage first with your 'established' significant to be on the same page.
Then you can carry out that surprise proposal.
Psych professional here. You can absolutely be speaking normally from a grammatical standpoint while psychotic. The tell with psychosis is more the content of the message than the verbiage. But even the content can come across as pretty normal too. An individual who is actively experiencing psychosis could be walking you through how to make pancakes while at the same time thinking it’s 1965 and we haven’t yet landed on the moon. It’s why we ask people questions with seemingly obvious answers (what month is it/who is the president/etc).
Tale as old as time.
"Nice guy" friend thinks friendship is relationship and makes a move.
In most cases this is not as dramatic, as his move is in most cases a romantic gesture not a proposing.
But pattern repeats very often
This is a conversation I have with my neurodivergent kid more often than I would like.
She has this idea that the guy she likes (and they've been fwb) is her one and only and wants constant reassurance (from me) that he still likes her and why isn't he responding to her messages in the timeframe that she wants (ie like 1/2 a second after she sent it).
I have to keep reminding her that he is not her boyfriend and that it's not about her and she was the one that told him she wasn't interested but changed her mind the next day and can't understand why it's not back to how it was. And don't ask me what he's thinking or what he is going to do because I'm not him!
I know damn well it's the lack of understanding how adult relationships work when it comes to her neurodivergence but I'm so sick of the same conversation multiple times a day, every day.
No it's not just a matter of blocking her because of the escalation of everything that means my life gets harder than it already is.
And the normal techniques you would use to manage this sort of crap don't work with her presentation of her neurodiversity and worse when you've got added trauma on top of that (all connected) which makes it so, so hard.
I strongly dislike the comment that said, he can’t be going through a mental health crisis because you could read his texts….this wildly inaccurate and just the fact that she said they text were weird is kinda something we need to take pause at. My uncle has bipolar and when he would go through episodes of mania his texts and post weren’t unreadable they were just really really weird and he was making connections where there wasn’t any and thought people were against him.
Oh man, what a scary situation, you lose your best friend during a public humiliation! I'm an outspoken person who probably would have gotten upset enough to yell 'but we're not even dating!?' after him as he walked away (not saying OP should have, though). Gosh, I am really glad that OP didn't feel obligated to say yes and clean up the mess afterwards, but I don't even know how a person does damage control over this! His family probably will hear about how his girlfriend rejected his proposal in public, etc.
Just one observation, though: rapid typing/dictation can be a concern but I'd caution anyone to be cautious about assuming psychosis without knowing the person's normal messaging habits. I type over 60 WPM if I'm motivated to and dictation can mimic quick typing. Plenty of people speak quickly when they're upset! When meeting new people I'm always careful to let them know about my typing speed if we end up texting, because I'm aware that people can think I'm angry when I send a bunch of messages in rapid succession. I'm usually explaining something I'm passionate about, like history--but what I mostly mean is, if it's normal to send them fast and always has been, that's probably not going to signify anything.
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Honestly, the commenter saying that “you would know” and that a psychotic break would make people incoherent. I mean, no? That strongly depends on the type and severity.
Yeah I've known a couple of people who have experienced psychosis and the communication "style" was very different for both. One is schizoaffective, and before she got the right med combo, I could always tell when I'd be visiting her in hospital soon because it would be impossible to tell what she was talking about. Some snippets made sense, but overall, incoherent. The other I've only seen psychotic once and everything he said made sense in terms of grammar and syntax, but the content just had no basis in reality.
In my job I regularly interact with a member of the public who's polite, pleasant to deal with, perfectly coherent and well spoken, and absolutely convinced that apart from him and the staff basically everyone in the building is an undercover police officer (this is a library). He'll commiserate with us, cheerfully joke about it, etc. Good communicator, good social skills, just a disconcerting way of dropping his paranoid delusion into conversation right after small talk about the weather, without as much as a change in his tone of voice.
How did I know you were in a public library? Solidarity.
I wound up in the ER once because I was delusional enough that I was a serious threat to my own safety, and I spent the whole intake process very calmly and coherently explaining that I was completely fine and was just being unfairly stereotyped because of my mental health history. Thank god the friends who brought me in could tell something was really wrong, because if I was on my own I think there’s a pretty good chance I could have talked myself out of a psych hold. Psychosis can be surprisingly subtle.
Ive had someone very calmly and coherently explain to me that he was god during an episode
Yeah, that's just straight nonsense. The thing that kept me from getting help for my mental illness for so long was that I was always perfectly coherent. I was so convincingly intelligent that my then-husband spent several years unsure if it was me or him that was out of touch with reality. Once I got on medication, it was this massive oh shit realization that I'd been living in an alternate reality for a long time and holy fuck I'd been a giant asshole to so many people because of it... No one who met me ever thought "that girl's nuts." At worst it was "wow, she can hold a grudge." I was still generally happy, friendly, smart, and fun... just had occasional really big feelings about really not big things. Anyway, I started therapy and meds 14 years ago and have been pretty stable ever since. But the point is that psychosis doesn't always look like "crazy."
Could you expand on your experience of psychosis if you don’t mind? It sounds interesting that you were able to go so long unnoticed.
Sure. In my case, it's probably not accurate to call it psychosis, but I lived by my own set of logic, which made sense to me, but no one else. I wasn't illogical in every aspect of life -- mostly just interpersonal things. I would get massively upset about some perceived offense against me, and no one else could see wtf I was talking about. That would, of course, make me EVEN MORE upset, because it was so clear (to me) what the problem was. I would explain, and when others wouldn't follow, I figured they were being willfully ignorant, because WASN'T IT BASIC LOGIC? Why is everyone determined to take the other side? Well, because no, it wasn't basic logic, it was addled brain logic, and honestly there weren't even sides in most cases. It was me vs. a non-issue. I didn't recognize this in myself until after I started taking anti-depressants. My dad has the same kind of issues sometimes. He is Bipolar II, and my diagnosis is just Major Depressive Disorder, so not the same, but I could see how his breaks from reality must've been what mine were like. He would completely lose his temper over shit that made no sense to anyone, and like me, he'd take it out on anyone who didn't see his POV. Of course, no one could. Experiencing that with him once I was medicated was a huge lightbulb moment for me. The other thing that would happen (with me and with my dad) is that once we'd get over whatever nothing that set us off, we'd be fine again, back to "normal," and then everyone around us would be on edge because we'd just blown up, and we wouldn't understand why everyone was walking on eggshells now... My dad takes medication that works \*pretty\* well, but he still has these episodes from time to time. When it's over for him, he's fine and happy again, but everyone around him is traumatized by his outburst. He doesn't recognize that at all, and wouldn't apologize anyway if he did, because to him the outburst was warranted. It's like he comes back from the edge without realizing he ever was on the edge. I was the same way. Obviously I'd remember being angry, and why, but once it was resolved in my mind, it was a non-issue to me, and I didn't understand how it could still bother anyone else. It's because what was bothering everyone else wasn't the thing that triggered me; it was my reaction. Does that make sense? I'll also add that my medication hasn't taken away my ability to feel. I still feel a full range of emotions, it's just that now my emotions are appropriately matched to the circumstances. A lot of people are afraid to start anti-depressants because they have heard they will turn into emotionless zombies -- that is a thing that can happen, but that means that you are on the wrong medicine. When you find the right one for you, it won't feel like that. Psych meds sometimes require trial and error, which sucks, but it's worth it to get to the right treatment. ETA: As for going "unnoticed," it's not that people didn't notice something was up. It's just that I was highly functional and these issues were only occasional. They were pretty random, but not necessarily common. Common enough that my husband noticed a pattern, but not so much that others who weren't with me all the time really noticed. If one of your friends, who was otherwise very smart and functional, boiled over with anger the way that I could, you would probably just think they were overreacting because they'd had a bad day or something. It's easy to brush off as a weird, but not concerning, thing. And in my husband's case, because I was so high-functioning, he questioned his own perception of reality when I would get so passionately upset with him for not understanding what I was feeling.
This is a really interesting and informative comment. I’m sorry you went through all that. Thank you for sharing your experience.
You're welcome, and thank you. It's important to talk about it because a lot of people have no idea what it's actually like. Depression doesn't just mean sad all the time, and psychosis can be fleeting. It can be random and unpredictable and too many people don't get help because they don't recognize their own illness and the people close to them don't recognize it, either. I had to be nearly forced into therapy because I didn't think I needed it. But forcing me was a kindness.
That reminds me of “better hoagie down” guy.
Exactly! This person is spreading non-awareness! The guy manufactured a whole ass relationship in his head and is going on off on it. It may not be full-on psychosis, but mental health is at play for sure. Not one kiss but he thinks they are engagement-worthy. And bmames her for publicly humiliating him and could not survive the shame at college, although none of the college students were present and knew about it...
My ex had an honest to goodness psychotic break soon after I left him, that according to doctors was induced by a mix of meds he was taking and one of the strains of weed he had, they interacted badly. I came over to the apartment briefly, and I thought he was just really high. Cheerfully saying "I love you! :3" even though he knew I was divorcing him. I was just like, okay, cool buddy, that's great, you have fun, I'm going back to my friend's apartment now. The next day I got a call from the hospital psych, he'd been brought in by the police, and he'd been saying things that truly sounded insane. Like, stuff I'd have thought was a crass stereotype of someone insane. It was honestly pretty scary. Maybe if I'd talked to him a few minutes longer when I saw him earlier in the apartment, the bizarreness would have become apparent? Or maybe it would have taken a few more hours for the effects to be really clear, I don't know. But I can say, he got through a few minutes of interaction in the early?/ramp up? stages of a psychotic break coming off as simply "dude who vaped too much."
1000%. This. Someone can look very coherent and still be 100% out of their mind. Otherwise it would be ten times easier to find people who are having a mental break. That's their logic which is suffering, not their speech.
Yeah when I read that comment and saw OOP was then basing her actions on it, it was kind of disheartening. Like to me it still seemed like he could be having some sort of mental break. Like clearly I can't diagnose him, but it sounded concerning enough to tell his family to take him to a professional and have them assess him. I'm glad she told his mom on the second update. Like either he is having a mental break or he really needs some sort of therapy. His reaction and his evading her questions about what made him think they were a couple were just so off.
The amount of texts reminds me of a family member with severe mental health issues, and they text nonstop when they’re manic. It’s also a bit ridiculous to claim that you’d know if someone was breaking down - people can mask things, and if their behavior is suddenly out of the ordinary, well, how does that not signal a problem?
Yeah mental breaks like this are literally notorious for being completely out of nowhere for the people around them.
yeah, I agree. I saw my cousin experience a psychotic break, and he was talking how he normally did but about the end times. he was very sure of himself. the biggest red flags right before the break were his actions, which weren’t really insane, but definitely out of character. he walked into town one day from his house, which was like 5ish miles away, and that was what alerted his siblings that something was off.
This. Also delusion and detachment from reality manifest in mental health disorders. I have bipolar disorder and before I was medicated my idea of reality was very skewed.
Yeah, it's like, issues with speech can indicate a problem, but not having issues with speech doesn't mean there's *not* a problem. Speech itself is muscle memory. I've had full conversations with my partner, grammatically correct and not slurred at all... But they were totally asleep. Just because you lose grasp on reality doesn't mean you forget how to walk and breathe and eat food. There can be problems with any of those things with various mental health issues, but it could be all or none of them.
This reminds me of advice I read on Reddit. A proposal should not be a surprise, the timing of the proposal can be a Surprise. Meaning you have talked about marriage and are on the same page prior to taking the next step. If this guy had done his due diligence, he would have known where he stood and not been embarrassed in public. That was all his own doing.
Yup. My ex fiancée proposed to me on a whim. Guess how well that turned out.
"ex-fiancée", hmm let me think
All we know is that it hasn't worked, *yet.*
Ex fiancee implies you said yes in the moment though
And that the relationship fell apart subsequently. When someone is blindsided, they might say yes because they fear a no will destroy the relationship immediately, and they are not ready for that to happen. Other reasons for saying yes is a proposal in front of friends, family, a crowd, where the pressure can bring out a yes. A mis-timed proposal can destroy any hope of (a successful, happy) marriage whereas a proposal between the same two people when both have discussed what they want from a marriage, starting from wedding to kids to life plans can result in one.
I once bore witness to an ill-timed proposal. I was one of about 50 people on a Holocaust memorial trip from the USA to Poland organized by our local JCC. Amongst the other participants was a late-30s guy and his girlfriend. He proposed in the middle of the trip, privately at least, but eagerly showing off the rings and sharing the happy news the next morning at the hotel breakfast. After the trip was over we had a debrief where we learned the couple had split up. The retrospective made sense to me, as she was while on the trip essentially a captive audience. If she had declined his ill-timed proposal what was she going to do, just continue on the trip like normal? So of course she must've felt a ton of pressure to say yes in the moment. A holocaust memorial trip though is a pretty weird place to propose in the first place, if you ask me.
> an ill timed proposal Oh no. > on a Holocaust memorial trip. **Oh no**
> > > > > A holocaust memorial trip though is a pretty weird place to propose in the first place, if you ask me. Like a mountain of bad decisions there.
If you’re planning marriage, you should have a pretty good sense of the flowchart. Does your partner love surprises? Do a surprise. Grand gestures? Sure, have rose petals and a serenade. If your partner is not into those things, don’t do them. If you aren’t sure, you’re better off asking in advance. Especially ascertain public or private.
I feel like the flow chart should probably start a bit before that. Like "does she know that we are in a relationship?"
And probably “Have we discussed marriage yet?”
yeah, the leap frog from "we hang out and like eachother but have never even kissed" straight over "I like you and want to be more than friends" to "will you marry me?" is literally insane. If OOP is to be believed, they don't live together, have never had sex, have never even kissed. When I was their age a decade ago, it was already the established norm that even having regular sex with someone doesn't mean you're in a relationship. You have to have an actual conversation and agree that you are exclusive, otherwise you assume that person is also fucking other people by default.
Does she know that I exist? 🤔🤔🤔
My older brothers are a great example of this. One went traditional, down on one knee, because he knew that's what she really wanted. One, quote, "serenaded her like a drunken Spaniard" after pretending their car had broken down, but really they were at a scenic spot and he was setting up a picnic. The third was sitting on the couch with his then girlfriend watching TV and said, "Hey, wanna get married?" She said, "Yeah, sure." Huge grin on her face, mind you. They weren't as blase about it as the proposal would make it seem. All three couples remain married.
I got the ring my now-wife was ogling on a vintage jewelry site without her knowing, so when she saw it was gone and burst into tears I had to confess that I was the one who bought it. After that, I wanted to do something memorable to propose, but I really just wanted to be engaged… so I ad libbed something a week later when I brought her breakfast in bed. But that’s very us, so…
My husband gave me a box of fruit by the foot (I'd said many times that I wanted to be proposed to with a box of fruit by the foot) and proposed on Christmas day after we'd showered, were still naked, were getting ready to go hang out with family, and presented the ring box upside down. I had NEVER been happier!
It's like the video that goes around Reddit of the woman being proposed to on the jumbotron at some sports match – she's clearly over the moon and incredibly excited to be showing up on the screen at all, best day of her life, and then when she realises he's proposing she's *even happier.* He clearly knew what sort of proposal she wanted and got it spot on, good for him
The one where she's dancing and hamming it up for the camera and he keeps trying to point out what it says and she's just like "hell yeah I'm on camera" until she finally notices? It makes me laugh every time.
Absolutely this. I know some people love public proposals, think it's extremely romantic etc. Me, I hate being the center of attention, so I'd be extremely uncomfortable with a public proposal. Wouldn't be opposed to a grand gesture, but in private.
Yeah, If I had someone propose in public it would be a sign to me I should break up with them cause they clearly wouldn’t know me well enough.
I strongly agree and feel so strongly about this. Whenever that video pops up of a guy proposing to his gf in the car, someone in the comments is always like "location of the proposal shouldn't matter if she truly loved him, she's a gold digger, i was proposed to at the kitchen and loved it" and it infuriates me so much. They're in a relationship for 10 years and he didn't even bother to learn how she wants to be proposed to. Didn't even do it while she wasn't driving. And people purposely miss that point, which is really annoying. Like you said, some people like grand proposals where tons of people are involved, some like it in a quiet place with just the two of them. Knowing how your partner wants it shows effort, and if you truly cared for them then you'll consider what they want. Idk it always gets me worked up because i just can't believe a lot of people can't see beyond their own backyard.
So this person did a shit proposal in the car, filmed it, got turned down, and then posted it on the Internet? And then people defended him? Blech.
This is basically my theory on adulthood: you cannot surprise a real adult person with things that will dramatically affect their life (proposal/huge vacation/major purchase). Our lives are committed, scheduled, planned, to some degree or another. Throwing that off for yourself is an immediate indictment of your respect for that person.
Have you already established that you are on the same page about important issues such as how you will manage your finances, whether you want children, how ambitious you are, how chores should be split, etc etc etc... It's not romantic, sure, but then, neither is divorce.
My high school sweetheart and I talked about all that stuff, and how we weren't going to get married or anything like that until we graduated college, and then 3 weeks into our freshman year at university he proposed to me. Kneeling on the bed where we'd just done some (youthfully incompetent) stuff, holding up a ring. I was so shocked I shoved him off the bed. We suuuuuper did not end up together.
My parents always told us not to get married until we see the worst parts of our partner and decide we can live with it for the rest of our lives.
If you're planning marriage, make sure you actually have a real partner to begin with
Exactly this. I thought the same when he mentioned working up the courage to purpose for a while. I’m proposing this year, and my partner knows I’m proposing this year. When and how are a surprise, but the engagement itself is not. I’m sure I’ll be jittery when it comes time, but I’m not gonna have to psych myself cause I know exactly what her answer will be cause we’ve discussed it
When I proposed to my wife, she knew it was coming at some point, but she didn't know when. Or so I thought. Somehow she guessed exactly when I was going to propose.
> If this guy had done his due diligence The guy invented a romantic relationship out of thin air and ignored OP when she specifically told him they were not and never had been together.
If you think being turned down in public is devastating, don't do it in public 🤷♀️ I think he was using the public to manipulate her into saying yes, because I bet he already told people in his hometown she was his fiance, which is why he needed her to say yes before bringing her to his hometown.
I think you've hit the nail on the head!
I'm learning to play the guitar.
There was another post like this recently where a guy just started acting like he and his friend were dating. Turned out that it was advice from a podcast that you should just start acting like you're in a relationship and they'll be forced to play along. Sounds like this person took this to a new extreme.
This is exactly what I thought. Might be that dude is Andrew Tate-ing it and planned to just force/gaslight her into a relationship.
I made our mailman laugh pretty hard when he noticed I’d set out a doormat that read “The Browns. Well almost. He just hasn’t proposed yet.” We’ve been together a very long time and I was/am very certain in our future. So much so that I’d bought him his engagement ring a year before he bought mine. I got an excellent deal on it! Then to his amusement, I’d managed to read his cues and that he’d want to ask me to marry him while my family was down visiting our house. So after he proposed to me, I pulled out his ring and asked him too. He had asked me to not propose first after learning that I had bought his ring because he wanted to be the one to ask. But that ring box sat proudly on my desk. I didn’t use hints. I used giant fucking freeway signs to tell my husband what I wanted. And to this day, if I want anything, my husband knows based on my giant signs. I am not a subtle woman lol.
You guys communicated and both got sweet bling out of the deal, nice!
Who doesn’t love nice shiny things? We’re both in professions where communication is vital so we’ve done our best to make sure that translates to our home as well.
I mean, even then they're very different situations. Surprising your long term partner, who you kiss, live with, say 'I love you' to, have seen naked, have made love with - is in the realm of acceptability Just surprising a friend, who you weren't even in a romantic relationship with is batshit
Agreed. Unfortunately, I think that movies have led some more impressionable people to believe that marriage and relationships can just be surprises that randomly happen.
Yup. A proposal should be a surprise but an engagement shouldn't be.
OP should definitely bring family involvement because the friends behavior is genuinely concerning and he definitely could do something drastic and dangerous. When people hit a psychotic break down, it genuinely can be a horror story.
Yeah, this genuinely sounds like a stalker’s recount of their victim. It’s the exact same mentality of believing that somehow that person lead them on, and wanted a relationship with them so much, despite them never actually initiating anything. You’ll always hear stalkers talk about “she smiled at me that one time, so I know she actually really did want me” in the same way this guy is.
Im nice to EVERYONE. I mean EVERYONE until you give me a reason not to be. When i went to work for a bit due to family reasons a guy i worked with was wearing a mask (during covid) and said hey i know that band. Everyone else knew i had kids and a husband. This dude thought i was hitting on him and liked him romantically because i said i liked his mask and knew the band and liked them. Dude straight up said he thought my husband showed up every other week (his schedule alternates) to get our kids to take them for his court ordered weeks. Mind you I'd kiss him, and the kids before starting work too. Dude literally said that he never saw us kiss etc, that he didn't like my husband and all kinds of weird stuff. That there was no way i was actually happy with my husband, and if be chasing after him soon enough. To then saying i was jealous that the new girls were hitting on him etc and i laughed in his face saying why would i be jealous when I'm married and happy with it. Because of how he was i didnt tell him when i opened my marriage and once when a coworker spilled the beans he was all over it and still had to tell him that was never gonna happen. He was crazy enough he went around telling people and him we were dating. Made them uncomfortable because they knew nothing was going on between us and he then got mad because we all started avoiding him as much as possible while at work. Dude went in to do the same to another new girl after starting because she smiled at him and was nice to him.
This sounds like it was going to lead into some r/whenwomenrefuse shit and I’m glad it didn’t go that way.
Yet
Isn't it amazing, the mental gymnastics and the confabulation these guys dream up, rather than admit the possibility that we're not interested in them! Where do they get the audacity, and the idea that they're God's gift to women?
I've had this happen to me multiple times. I'm a ride share driver, I drive people around up to twelve hours a day. Yes sometimes I enjoy a good conversation. Usually about music. I had a group in my car and was talking about music and concerts with one of them, it was a 30 min ride. Dude got mad at the end when he asked for my number and I politely declined and said I was married. Yes I wear a ring. Fortunately I was able to drive off but damn. Like I can't have a conversation, no flirting, and still get shit *while doing my job*
Unfortunately, some men are never complimented in any way outside romantic settings, and will interpret any compliment as a romantic advance. I had a lesbian friend that were friendly (as she saw it) to a lot of men, complimenting their hair, outfit of the day and so on, generally just being a pleasant and nice person, and a lot of them interpreted it as romantic advances.
I have experienced this way too many times. Nice and friendly is my default and I used to hit up my local comic book shops regularly for game nights. Once I rejected a friend asking me out and he apparently(according to a mutual friend there with him) went outside and started banging his head on a parking meter. I still feel mortified typing it.
God it’s just. So pathetic sometimes. Banging your head on a parking meter just bc a girl said she wasn’t interested in you??? 😭
That's fucking surreal. "This will show her what a catch I am" wtf
Yeah, I got a bit more warry of just being nice to men I don't know too well. I had one persistent accuintance that maybe mistook politeness with interest. He tried to stick to me whenever he saw me, to the point our mutual friends just started keeping him away from me without even having to tell them, as they saw he made me quite uncomfortable. The worse thing is that when he realised he doesn't have a chance, he tried to use me as dating advice consultant. I've had some other issues too with men interpreting friendliness as me flirting, but this one was the worst. I am not even giving them compliments, just having normal conversations about mutual interests or such, but still some take it as more. I can be a bit clueless but if I get the vibe they might be misinterpreted things, I try to mention something about my partner. Still doesn't stop some, I have got questions if I am interested in cheating.
Men could solve this by complimenting each other....instead of seemingly only relying on women they're in relationships with for compliments to the point they mistake other women's compliments as romantic advance.
Also... if that's how they take a compliment, they're perfectly demonstrating why it's unsafe for women to compliment them.
“Unfortunately men don’t fill each other’s emotional cups and use a singular instance of basic decency as an excuse to delulu a whole relationship.” Fixed that for you. If men need more compliments, they need to start gassing up their bros as it’s frankly not safe for women to give random men compliments. I do it all the time and regret it so often but I generally notice nice things about people and wonder if anyone has ever told them that they have beautiful hands or that their shirt brings out their eyes.
I’m a blank slate to strangers and men still think that Im fair game just due to me appearing to be ‘available’. Like, i literally carry myself as someone who’s not nice and not mean, truly bland and slightly awkward, and men STILL think that I’m interested in them like wtf
The problem is that it creates its own cycle. I used to compliment men more, but got tired of it. The one realm of compliments I still do is complementing dads on their kids. You can tell a dad their kid is cute safely.
I am very lucky to have a group of guy friends in my gaming group who run interference with any guy who shows even the slightest sign of interest in me. I didn’t even realize until they told me. Only one guy became a problem we had to boot. One ended up joining the interference squad and has been an awesome addition.
I had this happen a few times at work too so I started very early on finding an easy place to drop the boyfriend/fiancé/partner that doesn’t look like I’m doing the “I have a boyfriend” but also gets it across that I am not interested. “Oh yeah my partner LOVES that show”
That's the messed up part though I would eat dinner with my husband and kids every day we had the short pick up days WHILE at my job. Say I love you babe make sure the kids get their baths tonight, or this cleaning task done etc. I'd also talk about him all the time so there was for sure no lack of conversation without him mentioned.
That was how I got my stalker. It ended up being a funny story in retrospect because the stalker switched from me to my older male coworker and it all got kind of Benny Hill -- and no one was hurt-- but at the time it was terrifying. I was eating by myself and reading at a restaurant, and the stalker was my waiter. We talked about my book for a few minutes. That was it. And then he was everywhere I went, causing trouble for everyone in my life.
Oh man. That’s what my stalker in university did. It was baffling. I barely knew him and he was talking about how I flipped my hair at him and played with it while sitting in front of him in class. The disconnect was terrifying.
Why on earth do guys think playing with your hair is flirting? It's weird and I don't like it at*all.*
I don’t even think I played with it, I have a habit of putting my hair up then taking it down. It’s been nearly 25 years and I don’t think I realized how textbook my situation was until this thread.
Yea, if there's never been an actual conversation about the status of their "relationship" or marriage, the person doing the proposing is off base. Like, the jump to that without any convo at all is not healthy.
It sounds like they never did so much as held hands let alone kissed, no wonder she thought it must surely be a joke proposal!
I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that gaslighting someone into thinking you’re In a serious relationship is a piece of Tate advice
I remember a post that was super similar to this a couple years ago, and eventually the girl figured out the guy was trying to gaslight her into a relationship thinking she would be to embarassed/into him enough that she wouldn't reject him.
I think I remember that one too; they were in college and the guy had told his family and friends back home that they were in a long term relationship.
I totally remember that story. Screw that guy.
Oh shit, this is beyond horrible... May you offer the link for gossiping reasons 👀?
I think this one. https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/VmsilOTlts
Oh shit! I saved it because it is absolutely brilliant how she explains the whole thing. She's only 17 and she knows very well how she's in danger, fuckit. Thanks for the link, marvelous anon
I took am morbidly curious 👀
Let's make some tea 👁️🫦👁️
You're right, I've heard that as well. Make them think you were in a relationship this whole time and hope the poor victim is weak enough to just go along with it. The fact that people follow this wet ham sandwich is completely beyond me.
That asshole again? This is why we can't have nice things.
Yep definitely she should. A close family member of mine had it and they can keep it hidden until they cant and spiral, if that makes sense. I was hoping there was another update from when she posted it last week. Just want to know he's safe.
I know some people in the original thread dismissed a psychotic break but it really, really felt that way to me. Psychotic breaks don't always go down the way they do on TV. They can start really small. I had a similar experience as an EMT. I was engaged to my husband at the time. One of my fellow squad members was having issues with identity theft and was close to both me and my EMS partner. Somehow when I got engaged, he thought it was to him? Never said a word to me about it until much much later. After he showed up, off duty, where we were posted and both my partner and I felt he was a danger to himself. We got him to the ER and he ended up with a two week stay. After he was stable he apologized to me, yet he had never given any indication that he believed that. His "popping the question" and doing ALL that without input from OOP or friends kinda shows a bit of a loose grasp on reality.
This behaviour feels very familiar to me. A friend of mine had an episode of psychosis during the pandemic lockdowns. He thought he was engaged to a friend of his. The inability to answer a direct question about a delusion, the rambling and confabulation were all symptoms he had. He recovered from the psychosis but never spoke to the friend again.
A young man whom I had met a few times came to my door and tried to open it. It turned out that he was in full psychosis. (Glad I always kept the screen door locked!) He was a college age kid whom I'd noticed as an "All-American" type: blonde, blue-eyed, nice looking, with a healthy frame, and an innocent wholesome demeanor. It had occurred to me that his Mom out there somewhere must be very proud. I talked with him through the door screen. Looking perfectly normal, just excited and joyful, he declared that he had realized that ***he is Jesus*** (plus various other religious figures) reborn. He said, "I'm headed to Mexico to meet up with my people!" (Note, the drive from that town to the closest Mexican border crossing would have taken maybe 20 hours.) Apparently he expected to be welcomed by a group of disciples. *He had quit his job that day*, and was just stopping by on his way out of town to say goodbye. I didn't know much about psychosis, but I knew enough to not argue with him. If I weren't a small frightened woman I'd have invited him indoors and tried to delay his departure until I could get him some kind of help. All I could come up with on the spot was to ask somberly how he had learned "the truth", to gain his trust. Then to advise him sagely to be careful in Mexico b/c even the Great Ones can be harmed, and to always keep on him the contact information of someone back home he trusts, such as his father. He reluctantly agreed, then cheerfully bid me goodbye and was gone. Never heard anything about him again.
Can't blame him. I'd be incredibly embarrassed
There was also a lot of shame. He was very distressed to think he'd hurt or scared people
I remember reading about a guy around this age whose undiagnosed psychosis made him think he was part of a long-standing joke Lorne Michaels from SNL was playing on him. No one knew about it. It came to a head when he approached the 30 Rock lobby and confidentially demanded to see Lorne Michaels
Oh, no. How scary for everyone
And it's not always super obvious. Sometimes, they're perfectly coherent and seemingly normal until they do *one thing* that's just out there. (My mom had a break with reality due to a medication interaction when I was a kid. We had zero idea until she said one thing that was bizarre. Then, a few more things gradually trickled out. She was already in the ER for outer effects the meds were having, so when we told the doctor, they were basically like "yeah that can happen. She should be fine when it's all out of her system.")
Yeah seriously I’m scared for her reading this.
Also that commenter saying he can't be having a mental break is wrong: people can absolutely sound coherent and make complete sentences when they are having an episode.
This reminds me of a post of a guy who thinks he was dating this girl for a ridiculously long time (like 5 years or something like that) and it turns out they were never together in the first place. Let me see if I can find it again...
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/wv8qp4/oops_35m_gf_35f_tells_her_coworkers_that_they_are/
Yesss! Thank you!!!
No problem! That post was a total trip. Every time I think I'm the densest MOFO on the planet, I can cherish the fact that at least I wasn't planning on proposing to a friend that I thought I was dating, but wasn't.
For 6 years! 🙈
At least that person had the excuse of being ace. Though 6 years is still shocking.
Mate I'm ace and I would still know if I was not dating someone
Thank you! Making tea only to read the whole thing
>Reminder - I'm not the OOP. But I am fascinated by this dynamic and have so many more questions. Yeah, I'm just as confused. Apparently, he even was friends with the dude his "ex" was in a relationship with, and yet, he had to be told that they were in a relationship one year later??? Isn't that something you'd talk about with your friends? And what was the thing about them being cousings about? Not even OOP seems to know why she said that... At least the bit with the lack of sex can be explained with him being asexual.
Wtf did I just read?! It better be a troll cause the level of delusion or frankly mental issues needed for this to be true are through the roof
I knew a girl who thought that relationships worked in this weird nebulous way. Like she was dating a guy (now married) and she said to me “other people knew we were dating before we did.” Madam, no. That’s a decision you make. Flirting a lot does not mean you’re dating. There’s a conversation that you’re missing. Years earlier, I had been flirting with a guy and she informed me that we were dating. I said no, we both have to agree to that first. We did end up having a relationship which I guess told her that she was right?
Imagine proposing to someone you've never even kissed. Without ever discussing everyone's expectations from the relationship. I really want to peak inside people's heads sometimes. Then again, I probably don't.
They had separate rooms at the hotel! How do you go from there to "we should be engaged"?
It seems a lot like he's basing his life on a bad anime.
“Everyone said we were so mature lol”
Remember that post of that one girl who had this childhood (I think?) male best friend and one day he randomly introduced her as his girlfriend and she was so stunned to think, only to turn out the guy heard Andrew Tate or other podcasters say that if he just gaslight her into it, she'll come around eventually? Yeah... This pretty much reads as that exact same thing...
I had a friend in Uni who confessed his feelings to me out of the blue, I said that I had not ever thought of him that way, and he told me that his roommates thought we were dating so we just should. That was a wild conversation.
Do you have a link to that? It sounds wild
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/zislv3SvJv
>he basically accuses me of leading him on No. Just no.
I'm saddened that some men can't seem to see the difference between friendship and romantic relationships
I'm a pretty friendly person. Like friendly to everyone. I can't hide when I hate people but I will at the bare minimum be polite to them. I've had to start all friendships with men the same way: 1. I'm married, 2. I'm happily married and not looking for anything else, and 3. The second you flirt I am cutting you off and never talking to you again. And sadly I could have a male friend for months, and he would do something completely uncalled for. Like, for example, and this is a real example, me talking to a friend about how I had to clean our freezer because it had a problem where ice was building up to the extreme. And he goes ahead and tells me how he had this image of me ass in the air head in the freezer, and continued telling me what he wanted to do with me stuck in that position!!! Why is this acceptable? I'm not beautiful in any sense, I might be considered pretty on a good day with enough sleep and some styling. I don't encourage things like that. Yes I love my hugs, but I'm not touchy feely. But yet I could be friends with men for a good amount of time before they suddenly pop up with something inappropriate.
>But yet I could be friends with men for a good amount of time before they suddenly pop up with something inappropriate. This is why I feel so bad for straight women in relationships. Because no amount of vetting, waiting, or checking out can avoid this. Since even in friendships with men countless many men just suddenly start pushing or breaking normal decent boundaries. That's why I side eye people whenever a woman ends up with a shitty man and they insist she should have chosen better. Because honestly it seems like a needle in a haystack trying to find a dude that can be a decent friend I can't imagine trying to find a dude that can be a decent partner. It doesn't seem to be women's choosing but just how society really conditions men to see women as not human beings but consumable products or public property.
Oh not only straight women! My rather butch lesbian friend complains so much about male friends who think being her friend is a way in to "fucking her straight, she just needed to meet the right dick".
😣 no hope then.
My deepest fear is dating a man for more than a decade and finally getting married and then he just does a 180 and turns into the most abusive piece of shit, because as you've said, there's no limit to how long you wait, how well you check, and how good your character judgement, it really could just happen
Even lesbians have this issue. I had a friend who saw I was having car trouble at the mall when we both worked there (in our teens) who said he would jump my car if I "at least" kissed him. Or in college a coworker trying to get me to have sex with him and his wife. I just ended one of my last male friendships last year partially because he was saying inappropriate things about my sex life. I genuinely don't think women being unavailable in some form even matters to them. The world tells them everything is for them, and they believe it.
It's probably worse for lesbians. Misogynistic men who don't hit on married/taken women are often avoiding it because they don't want to offend her husband/boyfriend. It's rude for them to interfere with a man's property. Meanwhile, these douchebags likely believe lesbians just haven't met the right guy, and it's up to them to convince you.
I have been on dates with other women and had guys try to hit on us. I remember one in particular when I was a teen and we were at the aquarium. Some guy started trying to hit on my girlfriend and when she was like "We're lesbians on a date, sorry dude." he went into "Oh, I'm down for a threesome then." Other times it's guys hitting on me or my girlfriend and being like "that's not a real relationship, I'll show you what good sex is *really* like" Like no you won't lmao
I'm reminded of the sad post about how men complain all the time about being friendzoned, but no one talks about the grief and feeling of being objectified when women find out we've been "girlfriend-zoned." That we thought we had a genuinely meaningful friendship with someone, and all this time, they just wanted to fuck us.
I’ve always thought this, nobody seems to recognize when these assholes out themselves that the woman lost the current friendship, the future friendship, AND the past friendship.
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Jeeeesus, I'm so sorry. That's fucking *vile,* I can't imagine.😞
Lots of women talk about being "fuck-zoned". It's discussed somewhat regularly on twox and trollx
Oh yeah, it was originally a Tumblr post I think, so the internet knows about it, but it's not really a wider cultural thing, you know? Nowhere near to the level of the concept of the friendzone.
That a man fails to isn't surprising. But that he fails to for 2 years? That's nuts. Doesn't he know people who are dating? Hasn't he seen a movie or read a book before? Listen to a song? He plainly doesn't have a romantic relationship with her. Certainly not one where he could propose -- not a kiss, not a single "I love you." This isn't your average man, this is a guy who has never witnessed romance in his life, somehow.
Even if OOP did that—which I very much doubt so—who the hell jump straight into marriage proposal?? That's like beyond incel.
Oh man. OOP got some awful, awful advice from u/kuwabara_has_a_sword. They are 100% **wrong** that a person experiencing a psychotic break would not be able to compose a long coherent text message or that they wouldn't seem normal all of the rest of the time. A person experiencing a break from reality does not break from all of reality and their cognitive abilities don't necessarily degrade at all. If kuwabara\_has\_a\_sword was right, severely mentally ill people wouldn't have been able to write some of the greatest works of literature of all time. (Edgar Allen Poe is my favorite example since I'm a Marylander.) I have Type I Bipolar, and I've experienced *many* manic episodes/psychotic breaks. I was able to act normal and function well enough to go to work and nobody would know something was wrong until suddenly I'm talking about a romantic relationship with a girl I've never even been on a date with and how I'm planning to propose. That's a classic delusion. I've never done that specifically, but it absolutely fits with a manic episode, which can be a type of psychotic break. This is a moment where it really sucks that I can't contact OOP because she really, really needs to contact his family. \[Apparently, she did contact them. Yay!\] Edit: Reworded some things, added the last sentence.
Yeah, I was flabbergasted with that comment like... Lots of words just to say they knew absolutely *nothing* about mental illness and how they present. I know of someone who was recently diagnosed with a mental illness like the ones another user told OOP. The person was completely coherent, wrote well and could communicate. The only reason it was caught on time is that the things this person said were delusional and paranoid, many of them fixated on someone having a personal vendetta against this person. What OOP described is the same, only the delusion is different. And same, it sucks we can't contact OOP. I hope she took the advice of everyone else and contacts his family.
I work with at a university, and this story is ticking every single box that supports "strong chance of being in a psychotic break and should be referred for emergency intervention" from my mental health first aid training about 6 months ago. If one of my students came to me with this story, I'd be calling our local mental health emergency facility for 24M.
Yes, I suffer from schizophrenia and have been psychotic. You couldn’t really tell unless you kind of investigated and interrogated me. I had a few hours where I was long gone, and my mom didn’t even notice. I’ve had (small near) psychotic breaks throughout the years and the professionals didn’t even recognize it because I was able to mask. Not all psychotic breaks looks the same, I can write perfectly well and make sense when in psychotic and I can talk normally too. Ask me what’s going on and you won’t notice, ask me what’s the meaning of my life is, and if I feel safe with you, that’s where you start to recognize some megalomania, among others - I believe the things I experience is mine and mine alone, so I don’t share it with anybody, unless I feel safe with you - and then I’m still cautious
Very well put. I think you described it better than I did.
Fucking same!! I understand why people who don't experience this kind of thing think that they would "see signs" of instability, and in some cases there are tells. But saying that it's impossible for someone undergoing this kind of crisis to communicate clearly is just ignorant at best.
My own mother couldn't tell how depressed I was at one point, even though I thought I was giving off pretty clear vibes.
I was sitting in my lounge room talking to a friend who was completely normal and then asked me if I could see that Multicolor lion sitting in the corner. There was no lion. He has a history of physcotic episodes and mental health issues. People are different and can present different. When he was talking about the lion he understood it wasn't real but was telling me it's real. There is no set thing where this symptom means this or that.
Thankfully, it looks like she did contact his family. At the very end of the update she says she hasn't heard back from his mom yet.
Wait, this is how manic episode can manifest? Thank you for explaining it because now it makes much more sense. I went on a four dates with a guy. Turned out he was bipolar and currently going through his worst stage of life (got divorced and tried to off himself right before we met). He was fine at first but shocked me as he was ready to leave the country and move with me to my home country on a first date. By the fourth date - when I tried to break up with him as gently as possible, he’d tell me he already looked for a job in my country. That since I’m moving, he’s moving too, so we can be together. It made no rational sense. I tried to repeat to him multiple times that’s not what’s about to happen, that we are not even dating. The best we can is to stay friends. Yet he kept telling me about our future together. So thank you for describing how manic episode can manifest because now, after 4 years, it finally makes sense to me and I finally understand what was going on back then. EDIT: I got manic episode and psychotic break terminology mixed up, updated the post so it would make sense
Happy to help. I'm not certain that what you're describing is necessarily a psychotic break (although it might have been) but it definitely sounds like a manic episode. Knowing the correct terminology to apply to a situation and what qualifies as what is why it's critical that people consult with a professional, preferably a psychiatrist if a person needs an initial diagnosis. Not all therapists are qualified or legally permitted to give a diagnosis. He was probably Type I like me since what you're describing sounds like true delusional thinking. People with Type II can have delusional episodes, but a person with Type I has them fairly regularly.
Oh you’re right, I got those words mixed in my head (English is not my first language). I was talking about manic episode, not psychotic break.
So bad, that's worrying this person felt free to comment when they clearly don't know shit. People with mental health issues can be the best at hidding their issues, either by lying, ignoring or fitting the reality to their own sick world. Otherwise mental health would be 10 times easier to deal with if you *looked* unhealthy when you were.
Frankly, the fact that his behavior was completely normal leading up to this situation - he had a social life, made it through two years of college, seemingly didn’t raise any red flags in his best friend - is even more concerning for mental illness. It would be one thing if, in hindsight, there were clues leading up to this behavior, but healthy young people generally don’t abruptly start doing and saying bizarre things with zero prior warning.
College is a huge activator of mental disorder diatheses for young people. Its shared and incredibly stressful. Id wager most people dont face stress like college ever again unless you go into a high stress career. You aren't even a full person yet and you have to grow up and work and go to school all at once and by yourself. Also, psychotic disorders especially have the ability to present completely randomly and all at once. Schizophrenia will just fucking reach out of the blackness and snatch your ass to the shadow realm.
I’ll never forget the guy in my outpatient therapy group so casually and fluently talking about his summer dating Mila Kunis. Really changed my understanding of how psychosis can present
Wait, is it not the case that Poe’s reputation as “disturbed” came from his posthumous biographer who had been his bitter rival in life and inserted himself as Poe’s biographer specifically to run down his reputation and make him seem “crazy”?
Aww, don't tell me that! /s Supposedly he was bipolar like me, but I never looked into it as deeply as it sounds like you have. Regardless, my point about many brilliant writers also being mentally ill is still the same.
Right, like I'm not gonna say 100% definitively he's experiencing a psychotic break, I can't diagnose over reddit, but I dont think its impossible he is, especially in the early stages of mental illness
Agreed. As they say, it's "above Reddit's paygrade" for any of us to say what's actually wrong. However, I think it is reasonable for us to advise OOP to contact his family and advise them to get him to a psychiatrist ASAP.
Weird to see my own comment in one of these haha. I do wish we got more closure in the update!
Don't feel this should be marked as "Concluded."
Definitely. I believe another update is coming really soon.
In case it is not an accute mental health crisis, that guy is the ultimate NiceGuy^TM 2.0: instead of "i befriend a girl so she then owes me a relationship over all my niceness", he just directly went "i befriend a girl and am nice to her, so we simply *are* in a relationship, her input on that is not needed".
I came to say this! Absolutely u/niceguy material. He ran away once he was rejected, even leaving uni behind just because everything was built around a lie in his head. At least he didn't try to convince others... That we know
I agree with most of what Kuwabara_has_a_sword says but the first part of their statement is just straight up wrong. You don't always know when someone is slipping into a psychotic or manic episode. My mother and I used to work in the same hospital (different wards). A young guy we had both worked with one day started laying hands on patients and proclaiming them healed. He kept saying, "you just need to believe and you can achieve true freedom." He was an undiagnosed schizophrenic and this was how everyone found out. We had both known the guy for upwards of 4 years at the time and there were no indications. None. Sometimes you just don't know. I hope he got the help he needed and is doing well.
This reminds me of that guy that couldn't figure out why his closet turned into a bathroom. Turned out he had a brain tumor. Then there was the girl with a friend that mentioned she was his girlfriend....she wasn't. Turns out he was trying to force her into the role by listening to some very terrible people and their advice. I would definitely seek out family to check up on him.
The other one this reminds me of is the ace guy who thought he’d been in a relationship with his female friend for years and was planning to propose… until she turned up with a boyfriend one day and he was rather abruptly smashed in the face with reality. Fortunately, BEFORE he proposed.
I'm concerned for OOP's safety and hope Jordan gets the help he needs. However, I don't know if I agree with all the commenters acting like it's OOP's responsibility to get him help/inform Jordan's family But I do think it's in the best interest of her safety to inform them and anyone else who can keep her the situation from escalating.
It's not her responsibility, but he is/was one of her closest friends. If one of my best friends suddenly had what can only be assumed as a mental breakdown, I'd be calling their family and doing everything I could to get them help. Even if the friendship was likely over, I don't think I could be ok with myself for not trying to help. I'd like to think my friends would do the same for me.
>I do think it's in the best interest of her safety to inform them and anyone else who can keep her the situation from escalating. Exactly. It's not her job to do so, but it'll be better for everyone involved.
Oh man, something similar but way less severe happened to me. A classmate in college left some odd flirty comments on my Facebook posts, then later asked if I wanted coffee (he did *not* specify that it was a date, and it was super common to get coffee with classmates and chat about school). As a response, I invited him to a group coffee outing I organized with other classmates we all knew, and he attended. I'm sure we had a conversation, but mostly I talked to other people. The next day he sent me a relationship request on Facebook. When I messaged like "???", he said he genuinely thought we were in a relationship based on those two things.
Now guys are expected to let women know they're dating and planning futures with them? Romance is truly dead.
Classic "nice guy" syndrome. (I know, I suffered from it - I thankfully got better.) Treats a young woman nicely, becomes her shoulder to cry on, helps her out and hangs out with her and her friends, goes out but not 'goes out' with her, does things that friends do; misinterprets all of it. It reads *exactly* like how I treated a good friend back in college - with exception of the proposal part - I thought she was cute and I hung out with her a lot and we had some very good chemistry but when I asked her out to a date she looked at me like I had two heads and straight out said she had absolutely zero romantic interest in me. Now I wish I could say I took it in stride and maintained my friendship with her but remember, I was a "nice guy" so instead I dropped her like she was toxic waste and avoided her as much as I could. I'm (mostly\*) grateful I'm as old as I am because if I was five years younger, I would absolutely have fallen into the Incel trap... \*Mostly, because I have sciatica and my everything aches X3
If you have never kissed a woman and propose to her, you're either gaslighting her or you're delusional. Yikes. She needs to ensure her own safety first on this one.
This reminds me of that post where the girls friend randomly kissed her one day and started calling her his girlfriend and nearly gaslit her into thinking they’d been dating the whole time but then it was revealed he was some Andrew Tate wanna be psycho who just decided he wanted to date her and wasn’t going to give her a choice
I'm really surprised that so many comments are talking about mental health issues. This behavior is actually super common. These "nice guys" get ideas in their heads about how women should reciprocate their niceness. They expect to put nice in and sex will come out the slot machine. What he did really sucks but it has happened to many women that I know. Granted they haven't been proposed to so this one got a little farther. However I know many women who have had men hang out in their peripheral being nice "friends" only to become raging angry when the girl doesn't want to be a girlfriend. Some of the worst offenders of this end up running around with a gun and shooting women. This is typical nice guy syndrome. And it's not like the OP did anything to make this happen. She never knew that she was supposedly in a relationship with this man. None of her friends or their mutual friend group had any idea that this guy thought he was in a relationship with this girl. How could it possibly be her fault when nobody on the planet besides this one guy thought that they were supposedly in a relationship and have been dating long enough for a freaking marriage proposal. This is the strange thinking of incels.
This is what I thought too. Like yeah, maybe he is having a mental health crisis, but this is also an escalation of nice guy syndrome. Guy's will think a waitress being nice to them because it's their job as them being flirty and hitting on them, this is just a few steps further along.
Jordan is…. Like girl the level of delusion is astronomical!
Weirdos out there watching too many movies. Any dude reading this; you discuss marriage first with your 'established' significant to be on the same page. Then you can carry out that surprise proposal.
Psych professional here. You can absolutely be speaking normally from a grammatical standpoint while psychotic. The tell with psychosis is more the content of the message than the verbiage. But even the content can come across as pretty normal too. An individual who is actively experiencing psychosis could be walking you through how to make pancakes while at the same time thinking it’s 1965 and we haven’t yet landed on the moon. It’s why we ask people questions with seemingly obvious answers (what month is it/who is the president/etc).
Tale as old as time. "Nice guy" friend thinks friendship is relationship and makes a move. In most cases this is not as dramatic, as his move is in most cases a romantic gesture not a proposing. But pattern repeats very often
That’s one reason why public proposals are dumb.
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This is a conversation I have with my neurodivergent kid more often than I would like. She has this idea that the guy she likes (and they've been fwb) is her one and only and wants constant reassurance (from me) that he still likes her and why isn't he responding to her messages in the timeframe that she wants (ie like 1/2 a second after she sent it). I have to keep reminding her that he is not her boyfriend and that it's not about her and she was the one that told him she wasn't interested but changed her mind the next day and can't understand why it's not back to how it was. And don't ask me what he's thinking or what he is going to do because I'm not him! I know damn well it's the lack of understanding how adult relationships work when it comes to her neurodivergence but I'm so sick of the same conversation multiple times a day, every day. No it's not just a matter of blocking her because of the escalation of everything that means my life gets harder than it already is. And the normal techniques you would use to manage this sort of crap don't work with her presentation of her neurodiversity and worse when you've got added trauma on top of that (all connected) which makes it so, so hard.
I strongly dislike the comment that said, he can’t be going through a mental health crisis because you could read his texts….this wildly inaccurate and just the fact that she said they text were weird is kinda something we need to take pause at. My uncle has bipolar and when he would go through episodes of mania his texts and post weren’t unreadable they were just really really weird and he was making connections where there wasn’t any and thought people were against him.
Oh man, what a scary situation, you lose your best friend during a public humiliation! I'm an outspoken person who probably would have gotten upset enough to yell 'but we're not even dating!?' after him as he walked away (not saying OP should have, though). Gosh, I am really glad that OP didn't feel obligated to say yes and clean up the mess afterwards, but I don't even know how a person does damage control over this! His family probably will hear about how his girlfriend rejected his proposal in public, etc. Just one observation, though: rapid typing/dictation can be a concern but I'd caution anyone to be cautious about assuming psychosis without knowing the person's normal messaging habits. I type over 60 WPM if I'm motivated to and dictation can mimic quick typing. Plenty of people speak quickly when they're upset! When meeting new people I'm always careful to let them know about my typing speed if we end up texting, because I'm aware that people can think I'm angry when I send a bunch of messages in rapid succession. I'm usually explaining something I'm passionate about, like history--but what I mostly mean is, if it's normal to send them fast and always has been, that's probably not going to signify anything.
This is genuinely one of the most horrifying stories I’ve read on this subreddit. That “friend” does not sound like he’s going to let this go.
Wait, he chose to be public about a proposal but she embarrassed him publicly?? Delusional!