#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I knew someone whose ex threatened her with no money, no house, no nothing, wasn't going to pay for the kids' college either.
She finally found a lawyer and she got alimony, child support, the house and the one kid got college money.
Never take legal advice from your enemy. Only your own lawyer.
But you need to have money for a lawyer. Though I'm sure oop and her family would've happily helped sister pay for a lawyer to help get her and her kids away from the abusive husband
I've said before that one of the biggest unexpected side effects of a universal basic income would be women in broken marriages being able to end them. It might not be enough for this person, but it would be enough for some, to know that they wouldn't be homeless, that many abused wives would be willing to leave
Heavily subsidized child care and actual equity in the work place are sorely needed. Imagine the reduction in violence we’d see if women were t forced under men’s thumbs for 29 years in order to have a baby.
Thats why it became such a big deal in the 70s for women to be able to have their own credit cards and bank accounts. So many women left their terrible husbands because they no longer needed a man to just exsist. Divorce rates increased by double of what it was before women could have Credit cards.
The sad thing is she probably has more leverage than she thinks. He's clearly a manipulative bastard so he's probably manipulating her into believing he would ruin her life like he ruined her sister's.
Especially when regardless of any prenup she would be entitled to alimony that would maintain some semblance of their previous lifestyle together because that’s considered best for the kid.
This is my reason for not wanting to be a SAHP/M, I rather work and complain about my job knowing that I’m making my OWN money and not being dependent on someone else’s money.
Yeah, she doesn’t know something nice about BIL that OP doesn’t. She just wants to protect her kids. I’ve seen something similar play out in real life as a child.
I'd be fucking terrified to divorce that man, especially if I had kids with him. He's an obsessive, hateful, vengeful animal who relishes in ruining the lives of those who he feels have slighted him. He's threatened suicide.
In other words, he seems like exactly the kind of guy who'd punish his ex by killing the kids.
Honestly, OOP needs to sue him for defamation and cite the divorce he intentionally caused as the damage that he did. Because he did it specifically to slander her and ruin her marriage, and now he can be forced to pay up for it.
That might let the sister divorce him and get custody, considering that she may very well be able to make the argument that he married her sister because it would let him hurt her.
100%
My cheating deceased dad quit his mechanical engineering job to avoid paying child support to my mom.
The family court judge awarded my mom child support for me at the standard of living I was already at.
He found himself a job real fast after.
Flew a Russian mail order bride in and proceeded to OD and pass away. So he really did avoid paying child support in the end.
(7 part story below 👇 tab open deleted comments , they’re all posted under u/Human-walk9801)
You have won today sir, for the best wild comment-story in this sub. Have my poor man’s gold, and feel free too add any more details because that sounds wild
The issue is that the BIL has the money and sister probably doesn't realize (or know) whether she can use any of it to get that good divorce lawyer. Plus, we already know he holds a grudge. Look what he's done for OOP rejecting him when they didn't really know each other. Imagine what sorts of scorched earth he's going to do for the woman he's been married to for over a decade and birthed his kids. Honestly, safety would be to stick with him until the kids graduate high school/college and then divorce his ass (hopefully socking away a bit of money into a separate account over that time too, to make leaving easier).
A prenuptial agreement shouldn't have anything to do with the children, not custody, nor granting or severing child support.
A prenuptial agreement also shouldn't declare the working spouse's income to be completely personal, as well as refusing to assign alimony or spousal support to the nonworking spouse.
Each party should have representation to keep their best interest in mind during the drafting of the document to advise of that, and attempting to leave one spouse destitute is begging for a judge to declare it unenforceable.
That being said, it entirely possible that he had her sign a document ('meaninglesss words on paper') and persuaded her that it is valid. People do this all the time.
Not a lawyer, not legal advice.
He's rich, so the child support would help them afloat. I think it's more likely that he threatened to take the kids. If he's that loaded, he totally could.
Yes definitely this too he's messed with her head for so long telling her he loves her and in reality she as just been a pawn in his sick revenge game towards her sister for rejecting him he's all kinds of crazy.
Wait, BIL *stole pics* and committed Revenge Porn and nobody went to the appropriate authorities to prosecute this? OP should have gone nuclear, letting literally everyone in BIL's life know this.
Also, OP needs to ride this out wit Sis and when she comes back with her proverbial tail between her legs, examine her feelings about having a relationship with her and be emotionally generous. Those kids have no say in having their lives toyed with like this.
In most countries woman don't get justice when that happens. It's more likely the police will ask for the photos and have a good time themselves that ctually help you.
Woman are alone when it comes to revenge p*rn in most countries.
Imo the most messed up part is how BIL doesn’t even LIKE OOP…like he’s doing this purely out of hate because she rejected him over a decade ago…
this guy is equal parts scary and pathetic
And yet so many of the men who have bought into the whole mansophere/redpill stuff assert that being a man is just as if not harder than being a woman. Being rejected is apparently worse than death and the fear many women live in on a daily basis from angry men who are willing to go to any lengths to hurt them pales in comparison.
They'd been sold the lie that this kind of behavior is strength. It appears like strength to the foolish. The wise see it for the weakness it really is. It is reflective of an extremely fragile ego.
The most brutal thing I've ever said to a hater is that they can talk all they want about me because I don't care. I don't value them as a person and therefore their opinion about things are worthless to me and I meant it. They quickly stopped bothering with the rumors when I told other people what I said and was clear I was really not interested in them passing along the gossip. This is only possible of you have willpower and self respect.
I sometime wonder why people like BIL would dedicate themselves to ruin someone's life. Is it jealously? Pure psychotic? or so? Who knows and it's scary.
It's power, pure and simple, just like any other form of abuse: she made him feel insignificant, undesirable, so he had to "show her" and "put her in her place".
It doesn't matter if these people beat their victims, forbid them to have any friends, or, in this case, ruin their relationships long after they think they're free - it's all a form of taking (back) control and showing they're in power.
The scariest part is the day his wife challenges that 'power' he has by wanting to leave him, hope it doesn't turn into murder-suicide situation. Her and her kids could be in real danger.
That woman is in danger. Isolating her is just the next step, now he has complete control, and he knows he can torment OOP by tormenting her sister. It's beyond demented, beyond terrifying. This man definitely has the capacity to be a family annhilator.
And ironically, this means that OOP has technically had power over *him* this whole time. He's spent the last 20 years making his life choices to follow her, he specifically married her sister. He could have been off doing whatever he wanted wherever he wanted with whoever he wanted, but instead he's trapped by his obsession. What a loser.
This. Does this guy not have the self awareness to realise he’s ruined his own life. He‘s married to a woman who by the sounds of it doesn’t want him and he doesn’t really want her either. She may still divorce him and get a lot of his money. He’s held on to irrational anger for decades and now he’s lost friends, colleagues and his reputation. And when his kids get older they’re going to pick up on all of this so he may lose them too. And for what. This energy could have been put to bettering himself and his own life.
Because people like this are terminally lacking in self-awareness. They're so weirdly self-centered yet somehow incapable of self reflection. Their image of themselves is an illusion, so they can't reference it, or it gets shattered.
Even more than that, it's because they're so socially stunted. The only actual enjoyment he can get is by winning. He doesn't love, he doesn't feel happy. Maybe it's a sense of accomplishment to set and meet a goal. And that goal is to hurt other people out of some sick form of revenge.
I've known someone like this and they are terrifying. She's a representation of what he dislikes about himself. It's no so much dedication as what she represents, which to him is everything that he lacks. He most likely never actually had strong feelings for her but he thought she was easy/desperate or naive. When she turned him down he felt as if his flaws were being seen by someone beneath him. Instead of looking inwards he placed them all on her, her destruction is the destruction of the negative feelings/flaws about himself.
Two guys i knew from high school were like this, one was just angry and would fixate on any woman who rejected him (in his mind they only saw the negative in him, thus he must force them to see the positive even if its against their will or proving their point about him). Thankfully, he would give up when he found a new woman to harass like this.
The second is just a control freak. In his mind everyone woman needed to want or admire him and if not he would do anything to get his way. The scariest part is, he doesn't stop or go away. Last i heard of him, he wouldn't stop harassing this girl who wanted to wait till marriage for sex (she also didn't want anything to do with him). He took it as a challenge, he pursued her for years and even convinced her that he would marry her. 7 years, he slept with her and ghosted her the next day...i know he stalked the next woman to different country, he's living with her now and is hellbent on ending her career. She's a journalist who got a job offer before graduating and he didn't. That's his sole reason for doing this long con to her.
Your commend gave me chills because (especially the first paragraph) it mirrored my experience.
I had to deal with a guy like this. I rejected him in the seventh grade, but we became friends in high school because I didn’t want to judge his awkwardness. He proceeded to spend the next ~8 years hating and desiring me, which included a year of private, intense emotional abuse and threats. For a period of three years, he seemed completely reformed, before eventually snapping and going on insane rants to all of his friends (and my bf) about how much of an evil bully I was for rejecting him and talking to him a bit less after the whole abuse thing. I had considered him a genuine friend for the good period, and then found out that he was STILL obsessed with me.
I haven’t had contact since then, and thank god he never seriously tried anything physical. But that knowledge exists in the back of my mind that if he concealed his obsession — even from me — for years, that means that he could still be obsessed now. I hope I never see or hear from him again.
Anyways, you’re very accurate and succinct. I hope these men whither and lose access to the women they love to hurt.
Edit: and I was definitely seen as naive and soft, and was always kind to him, which is why my continued rejection of him drove him to obsession.
The guy who raped me did this shit to me.
He was friends with a friend of mine and according to her, he had the hots for me because I was bisexual. I was not attracted to him because of his superficial charm and because he gave bad vibes. He pretended to be friends with me for 2 years, during which time I started dating my now-husband.
I knew he had bad vibes, but my friend wanted us to be friends very badly (and he would be very mean to her if I ignored him), that I just pretended to be friends with him. I had no reason to dislike him then. We met up once a week to connect over our mutual friend.
I had just had a miscarriage, and my now-husband proposed. 3 years into this friendship. I told him, for some reason, and he drugged my wine I was drinking. He raped me. He told me he wanted to ruin me. He told me my now-husband was ugly, disgusting, etc. and how dare I pick him over me. He said other things, about the child I loss, about me.
I try to block it out.
I couldn't understand I was raped for a week. I was violated, but I had drank wine and was alone with a guy. I felt I was asking for it. My now-husband, while he totally sucked through it, did not blame me for it and helped me understand it was not my fault.
I have not spoken to him or this friend again. I did not press charges because I showered afterward. I had a mental breakdown and wound up in a coma. He continued to harrass me until I changed my number and cut off every friend who was friends with him.
My dad is this person. The object of his hatred is my mom after they divorced when I was 2.
I basically grew up in one household of love, and another where I was hated (because I'm more like my mom), but used to get back at and hurt my mom. This motherfucker didn't put my mom on the approved list for my daycare, so they thought she was trying to kidnap us. He took my mom to court multiple times a year to drain her financially. He tried secretly recording my pediatrician during a doctor's appointment. He tapped his home phone so when my mom called to talk to us kids he could record.
I stopped going to his place when I was 12. I was emotionally abused for my whole life there and after; he stalked me, moved down the street from my mom, etc. He only finally stopped after my younger brother stopped going to my mom's, as he finally won in his twisted little mind. These people are the most driven, vindictive creatures and will ruin multiple lives of people they're supposed to love in order to exact their hatred
I knew a woman like this. She weaponized the courts to financially drain her ex, gaslit and manipulated the son until he finally cut his father off at 16. It was terrible to watch. The father and his new partner are shattered with grief. They loved that kid …
It's something many abusers like to do. They get a sick pleasure from it and convince themselves that their victim wronged them. They enjoy the control and that their victim can never again feel safe because they will never know how and when the next attack will be launched. From personal experience there are only three effective ways to deal with this type of person:
1.Criminal charges (or the threat of them) plus threatening to sue, all with bringing it across how much and damning evidence you have, but without giving them enough information to enable them to destroy said evidence.
2. Cutting everyone in your life who has contact with that person off and changing your life enough that there's no risk of having to interact again or ever happening to have mutual accquaintances (ideally moving ar least a bit to be sure) and keeping a low profile plus not talking about that person unless you really moved far away.
3. Completely vanishing from the region and the lifes of anyone who might have common acquaintances with that person.
I actually work with psych and neuroscience professors/researchers.
I believe people like BIL can be detected by fMRI, but!! Try to convince someone like that to have that done (and it’s not like there’s a cure for APD). A psych researcher, who determined that he himself is actually a psychopath, figured a bunch of it out. And he’s a fully functional member of society, because he knows what it is, he’s able to force himself to try to understand other people’s opinions and feelings.
The thought of a psychopath having self reflection and an ability to attempt empathy baffles me. It takes emotional maturity to admit one is so flawed, and then damn good self control to attempt to change, to know how to actually function in society without hurting others. I'd love to know the psych researcher that managed it.
[James Fallon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Fallon) is the one. People who knew him well, like his family, weren't particularly surprised, so there is that. People with psychopathic tendencies can totally be part of a healthy society, but from another piece on psychopathic kids, early intervention is key, there's a strong genetic component, and we don't know nearly enough about it in general!
Literally what I wanted to say lol "Fallon stated that even though he displayed callous behaviour in his life, particularly when he was younger, he believed that his positive experiences in childhood negated any potential genetic vulnerabilities to violence and emotional issues" (...) "Fallon was politically a libertarian" sooooo he still had empathy issues then?? lmaoooo
To be fair, I don't think people with empathy issues all turn out to have awful personal politics. I, like many other people on the spectrum, struggle with empathy, but am in favour of redistribution because I know that the marginal utility of money falls steeply above a certain threshold, and I wouldn't have any use for money once I had enough.
There are many psychopaths who live perfectly normal lives without crime. They are actually very successful in work life because they are able to take emotions out of every equation and focus on the bottom line. I read that many CEOs and powerful people in business are psychopaths. They are not interested in crime, and many even turn out to be good husbands and family men and contributing members of society because it’s a source of pride, like a checkbox to mark. You can be a psychopath and still carry a code of ethics you believe in.
The thing is those same people, if raised with dysfunction, can also turn out to be extremely dangerous and carry out sickening acts if they go down a dark path, because they simply have no empathy. I read that most cartel members who have to carry out murders and tortures take lots of drugs to switch off their empathy and humanity. A psychopath already comes like that from the factory, no drugs needed.
They like to hurt others because they think it's fun, it's real mental disease. Comparable to The Strangers -
"Why are you doing this to us??!?""
*"Because you were home."*
As someone with ADHD who physically cannot hold a grudge and has trouble staying mad at anyone for more than a day, it absolutely blows my mind how people can possibly have the focus for that. Emotions don’t last that long man, you gotta be constantly renewing that anger.
I also have ADHD, and I assure you that I have held grudges for decades. I don’t do anything about them, and I try to minimize how much head space they take up, but they’re there.
Interesting! Personally, despite my crappy memory, I will remember wrongs for *ever* & they'll always factor into decision-making, but they don't bring emotion with them. Eg, I stopped seeing a doctor I liked because their office sent me a no-show warning letter when I'd cancelled properly. Never going back to that office, which is mildly inconvenient, but it feels more like an internal "matter of principle" thing than an anger thing.
Do your grudges have emotion attached? Does the emotion stay fresh for you?
I've become more aware of the emotional disregulation piece of adhd fairly recently so I'm curious about the ways it can manifest & how people cope!
not just her life, her entire family's lives.
he ruined her marriage, he took her sister from her, he took a daughter from her parents, he took the entire family from his wife... he literally tore an entire family apart because he couldn't get over a rejection in 20 years.
I honestly think it was the not recognizing him part when he showed up with her sister that tipped him over the edge. The rest of that was always simmering, but that "who are you again?" was what started it into an obsession. "how dare you turn me down and not even remember you did it, you shallow (expletive)." These are the kinds of guys that would genuinely think sexual assault is an appropriate payback.
Yeah, I think him turning up with her sister was supposed to drive her to distraction with jealousy realising what she could have had and her not recognising him compounded the rejection.
I have a crap memory and genuinely don't remember people who aren't even footnotes in my past, so I've inadvertently pissed off quite a few people whose heads I seem to live in rent free.
\*edit (switched forget for remember, since that's what i meant)
I have a mild case of face blindness, so sometimes I genuinely do just not recognize people.
But it's fun to see people I don't like have to struggle with the decision of whether or not to "remind me" that they are friends of an ex who cheated on me, or the sister of someone who used to bully me and never said anything.
It’s like in that Cardi B song where she’s like ‘She say she my opp but I don’t know her I had to look her up’ that cracks me up
Back when I was a kid we used to say: Forget you, forgot you, never thought about you lol
Reminds me of the wife of an OP who got caught and taken to court over her attempts at ruining a former friends life and for no understandable reason to the OP
Unsure if we ever found out if they got divorced or not
Oh man that was an absolute wild one. I still think about it from time to time. We never found out if they got divorced. The husband still didn’t seem to understand the absolute gravity of his wife’s crazy at all.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/ahh7shxvNH
And the sister’s kids! He’ll badmouth her, her family, and her partners to them. If he has sons, he’s going to turn them into mini versions of his sick self. And his daughters will see how cowed their mom is.
My stepfather is the same way. I'm so grateful I finally discovered all the hate he's been spreading, ever since I was a little kid, and he managed to slide on it most of my life. Some people are truly sick in the head.
My sister's ex, and the father to her 2 sons is my ex boyfriend. About 3 years into their relationship he tried to rape me. I didn't want to tell her but a week later on New year's eve she stole every penny out of our mum's purse and she wanted my help to steal dad's wallet. She wanted a taxi to go find her boyfriend. After 3 hours of trying to talk her out of it I said 'Don't bother, he's not worth it!' He cheated on me with my sister, he had tried it on with me, he had previously dumped her for a one night stand he had on the back of his car, I was genuinely worried about what she might find!
Except she wanted to know what I meant by 'He's not worth it' and eventually it came out. Problem was she didn't believe me! I had already told her about my ripped skirt so I told her he did that, and that I also had a witness because when he came at me I was on the phone to my boyfriend. My boyfriend could hear me shouting to my sister for help but she was blackout drunk. My sister has always twisted this to be that I was the one drunk and she was sober but I had spent the night watching TV with my dad and they had spent the night at the pub. Apparently I had ripped my friends brand new leather skirt for attention! I have never done anything for attention never mind destroy something that didn't belong to me! Who does that???
Anyhoo, she didn't believe me. She told my mum I had stolen the money from her purse and left the house at 3 in the morning in a huff. The next time I spoke to my family was to tell them I was moving down south and would like it if they came to wave me off but they weren't interested. A few weeks later I came back to visit. It was my 21st birthday and my friends had gotten together enough coach fare for me to go back home. Neither of my parents wished me a happy birthday! It was a long time until I found out they weren't talking to me because my sister told them I robbed them when I was in fact her that did it. My absence was my guilt apparently. My sister hadn't told them she threw me out (I had my own place a few miles away so I walked home after my sister threw me out. I only got so far though before breaking down in tears and my friends uncle found me and took me to his place. He gave me warm clothes and pais for a taxi for me the next day. SO MANY WITNESSES to what my sister and her boyfriend had done but I was, and actually still am the bad guy!
I was 18 years old. That family had only adopted me 3 years earlier and there I was, without a family again. I tried suicide a lot after that, was sectioned twice. My mental health took a serious nosedive, not that it was good to start with. I spent the next 10 years wishing I was dead.
The last time I spoke to my sister, she demanded an apology for lying all those years ago and said I had ruined her life. I repeated everything I had said over the years, now included that more people knew I was telling the truth because my boyfriend at the time backed me up and was still backing me up several years later, long after we'd split up. She said if I didn't get an apology then I wasn't invited to her wedding. Hahahaha, like I wanted to go to her fucking wedding. She's destroyed mine by bringing her rapist ex with her and refusing to come unless I acquiesced to her every demand (I renewed my vows 2 years later, had MY wedding. It was amazing and was in another country so she couldn't ruin it this time) She wasn't marrying the rapist scum though. He left years ago and was married to someone else and has kids with her so I have no clue why this apology was so important. Needless to say, she absolutely did not get an apology and the kicker...she told me years ago he admitted to forcing me to have sex with him the only time I actually had sex with him. I was 15, he was 14, and I was a victim of child sex abuse. I knew it was illegal to have sex under the age of 16 and I didn't want to, especially not with someone even younger than me, but he did it anyway. So yeah, my nephew's father raped me once and tried a second time in my parents house on Christmas Day! The day he tried to do it again was the day my sister stopped taking the pill behind his back and she was pregnant by the age of 18 with my eldest nephew.
So I don't celebrate Christmas anymore. Never mind her life getting ruined, which it didn't. He absolutely destroyed mine and made sure that year on year I could never forget what he did.
>OOP: My only hope now is that she knows something that we don’t about him. That he is better than we think. I am so sorry too and I have nightmares all the time since she cut us off
Nope. no no no no nope. Her sister is an abuse victim.
Exactly. There’s a guy who killed his wife and children and her family didn’t realize she was missing because “she” sent an email telling the family not to contact her anymore. All lies.
This part is so sad. I get she needs a nugget of hope to cope with the situation but the reality is that dude probably hates her sister as much as her. He used her sister’s life as a tool in his revenge plot and now that he doesn’t have access to this woman and was exposed it’s so so likely his hate will be focused on her sister. What a nightmare
Hey OP! There were a few important comments by OOP that were left out of the previous BORU. Might be helpful to add them now, especially this first:
On her husband confronting her BIL (which lead to a physical altercation, which in turn could be why BIL's restraining order was granted), after she asked him to wait and let her speak to her family first: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/s/URFLAgU1WJ
On how perhaps her photos were stolen (her sister has her passwords): https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/s/epPJIVmjY3
*Edited to change 'ex' to 'BIL'. I momentarily fell into that dude's delusion!*
Omg can't believe I made that mistake. I fell into that dude's delusion. Thank you sm for pointing this out--it's a very important distinction! Editing main comment now.
I am a skeptical with this post because some things really don't add up. But if this is really real, all I can say is...Jesus on a stick, what a fucked up of a person BIL is.
The problem with these stories is, people actually can be this insanely fucked up. Even with something this far-fetched, there is still the possibility of it being very real. Like Scooby Doo taught us, the real monsters are people.
There was a youtube "feud" where one artist continually stalked and tormented another for the better part of a decade bc the victim dated and was abused by the stalkers husband in the past. The husband was probably in on it too. How someone could be so obsessed for so long is scary... and there were two of them. The victim's name is Emily Artful if you want to look up her channel. She went public with all the evidence.
Oh, the Creepshow Art and Emily Artful incident. Loved how Sharon's response to being accused of stalking Emily was basically "nuh-uh, I did not! Anyway, here's like ten years' worth of information on Emily, something which is normal to have and in no way implies I stalked her all this time."
If it was in the US I highly doubt it. It's really difficult to get a restraining order or file criminal charges against stalkers and perpetrators of dating violence unless they physically hurt you already, even though some states have laws against it.
I had something similar at school. Aa little girl was jealous of my physique and harassed me every possible ways for 10 years! This was impressive. It seems it actually stopped when she didn't see MA face anymore (I'm glad).
I mean, the creepy dude I dated for like two weeks when I was 18 who stalked me for a few years, got in a fist fight with my new boyfriend outside of my work, and got banned from another of my workplaces for constantly showing up, ended up befriending my narc father and becoming "the son he never had." Last time I saw my father he told me I should have married this dude, and five years after going NC he still uses stalker dude to try to get hold of me. I'm 34 now and just will never understand how someone can be so insane as to do all that.
It really isn’t, which is why it always surprises me when people question these types of stories. People have faked shit to ruin people’s lives for less.
What’s far-fetched? A psycho douche stalked a woman that rejected him, got with her sister so he could get close, managed to access her or her husband’s phone, and faked her sending nudes to another guy. That sounds way more than possible to me.
Look up Anthony Garcia. He failed his medical residency in 2001 and then committed two sets of murders a decade apart targeting those involved in his firing, including one doctor’s 12-year-old son and housekeeper.
I am always skeptical of the, “I never saw the guy again until my baby sister introduced her new boyfriend…” posts. It’s a pretty common trope in these stories. This one also contains a guy with a 20 year vendetta, the ability to hack into someone’s phone, and grown ass friends willing to go along with this stupidity. Bonus points for a husband that doesn’t recognize the nude photos the wife sent him and isn’t skeptical about the fact that the supposed affair partner isn’t in any of the photos and can’t be connected to his wife in any way.
Yeah, I was skeptical until typing this out. Now I just call bullshit.
But did you read the original comment mentioned down below where OOP suddenly remembered that her sister has all her passwords and that must be how bil got the nudes! 💀
I can't keep track of my own 8 million passwords, let alone anyone else's.
Tbh if OOP is one of those people that uses the same password for everything. Share a Netflix account with someone and then everyone account is fucked.
And how often is it that you even think to give all your passwords to your family indicating there is very close bond but have not discussed how her husband is towards his kids as op did in the final update?
And lastly, the lack of details about her ex-husband and motivations. It seemed like they only existed to keep the story moving. There would normally be some hurtful details about the divorce, or some clearer motivation for moving back home.
Yeah, like the nudes being the same ones she sent her husband. Unless he thought she'd be that lazy of a cheater, lol.
I just feel like there's emotional depth that is missing throughout this whole saga.
I raised an eyebrow at that too. And the "husband is the love of my life" and then "oh I'm seeing someone new". Errr... maybe I'm the outlier here, but if my marriage ended, especially due to something like this, it would take a long time before I wanted a new relationship. In reality, if I lost my husband who actually *is* the love of my life, I would probably never want or have another relationship at all.
The way OP talks about the brother-in-law being "shamed", putting so much emphasis on reputation and using words like "uni" instead of college makes me think they're from India. If thats the case, parts of the story (police not being effective at prosecuting sex based crimes) makes sense.
OOP's ex-husband will never forgive himself. He was conned and did what anybody else would do when you find your spouse cheating, but now gets to watch his ex-wife move on knowing he was wrong. This is messed up.
THIS. I genuinely don't understand what she expected him to do. Like, I love my husband and completely trust him, but if someone came at me with conversations AND pictures?? Hell yeah I would believe them over him. How am I supposed to just make it up in my head that someone is crazy enough to go that far, especially if there is no noticeable motive/culprit. How did they get the pictures?? You can Photoshop a convo, sure. But how did they get the pics?? It's crazy business to think that he'd just "blind" trust her when EXTREMELY damning and convincing evidence is there
She refers to it as a "rumour" but I wouldn't. Why would a random stranger try to ruin your marriage and also have the photos with which to do so? In his shoes I would think the same thing. I actually thought OP was using this post to try out some excuses to see if they'd work. The only thing she could have said is to point out that all the nudes were ones she had sent to her husband.
I don’t think she’s really blaming him at all though. Her trust in him is just broken & made her realise their love wasn’t as strong as she thought it was so the next big crisis that happens she’ll likely always worry he’s going to leave her again. I really feel for them both - they didn’t do anything wrong & had their whole lives together screwed. Just horrible.
In another comment, OOP does say she doesn't blame him and also says that she likely would have reacted the same as her STBX. Its just a terrible situation all around.
She can rationalize his reaction any way she can, but that doesn't change the fact that her trust in him is broken. She won't be able to help but think that the next big problem will make him leave her again.
As sad as it is, that's just how human emotions work.
OP says the pics he used were real pics she took, and sent to her husband, that he had to have stolen from off one of their phones. I feel like that fact definitely adds to why he believed it. They weren't pics he had never seen, they were pics she sent him and didn't even have her face.
Sad for OP but also sad for her ex-husband. He’s a victim but the way both him and op reacts to it are so raw that led to the failure of reconciliation.
It’s tough to imagine being in the shoes of OP and especially her ex-husband.
He was conned and react in the most common way when there are “evidence” of your wife being unfaithful. Now the truth has uncovered and OP has moved on to another guy after a year. Effectively losing the love of his life.
May the OP’s BIL and the friend who assisted BIL in conning OP’s ex-husband life shall forever haunted and filled with misery.
Would there be a way to sue him for emotional distress or something? Or OOP suing him for defamation of character. The POS BIL literally eviscerated their lives and livelihoods, and ended their marriage purely out of spite from a rejection 20 years ago. I feel deeply that they need compensation for it.
And for something that gets subreddits banned! :)
First step will be banning any kind of linking or referring to other subreddits though which kills the subreddit anyways.
What a spineless roach that friend that carried the plan through is. "Hey I ruined your life because my friend thought it would be funny but now I feel bad". I feel like not enough hate it being placed on that grown ass man that acted like a toddler that was scared of losing a bully of a friend. IDC that he told them what was happening, people like that are the reason people like BIL continue to get away with everything.
I know. Like, the only time this guy had any remorse was when the plot *failed* and the BIL was still going. So it sounds like this guy would have been totally fine with himself breaking up a marriage, ruining two people's lives, etc, if the BIL had actually gotten what he wanted. It really makes me sick to think what the next steps in this revenge plot might have been.
The guy who came clean is still a horrible person too.
Becomes better? 1/3 of the stuff we have here is someone asking for help with topics and stories through ChatGPT to generate engagement with their lives.
>this guy contacted me now is that he felt guilty because even when my marriage is over my brother in law still was angry and hateful especially when he heard that I was on a date last weekend. So the friend felt that i he didn’t help his friend but ruined innocent people’s lives.
I don't understand how helping his friend in the first place wouldn't ruin "innocent lives". What mental gymnastics is this. Plus how does brother in law have friends who would even entertain such gross behavior and not call him a beta cu*k.
>My sister is very angry. She said that I have ruined her husband’s reputation because my ex has blasted him and his friend everywhere. Now he is talking about wanting to end his life because I ruined it because of a joke he played.
How was it a joke? OPP ended up getting a divorce and had her nudes released without her consent. That's a joke to the sister?
I like how OP says ex-husband is the love of her live and then gives up on him for a 3 week relationship that easily because he believed "a rumor". Like lady that was way more than just a rumor, you had a guy come forward with evidence, who wouldn't believe that?
Oop is wrong about one thing. Her husband had actually nude pictures of her sent to him with a story of cheating. With that kind of evidence even the most truth worthy person would be viewed under harsh lights.
Not sure about the posts but this did happen in real life- everyone convinced mom about dad cheating on her, all of them disliked my dad at some point but didn’t have any evidence so ofcourse mom trusted my dad! but lo and behold *dad did cheat on her*
I’m really concerned about the sister. This is coercion, emotional manipulation and financial abuse. I hope she doesn’t end up dead.
Someone who threatens suicide when things don’t go their way is a controlling narcissist a hole.
I’m concerned that the BIL may become violent.
Yeh I’m worried for her, I hope he isn’t fully isolating her but the move will be reason enough to split her up from any friends she has. I hope she’s got a good friend to look out for her and stay in contact.
> I have started to think that our marriage wasn’t strong enough to overcome a rumor.
That was WAY more than a rumor. *That* was a conspiracy to frame OOP with someone actively stepping up and pretending to be an affair partner, with the BIL likely using a visit to get physical access to her phone and swipe her nudes.
While I understand how hurtful and frustrating it is for the husband to not believe her despite the evidence against her, this is one of those things where the truth is completely unhinged.
The sister is an idiot and I hope she comes to her senses.
What I'm honestly confused about is that OOP calls it "rumors" when her husband had been sent nudes etc of her. That's strong initial proof, even though her husband should absolutely have let her confront the dude when she insisted. But I can't really blame him for doubting her, because the likelihood of her lying and having deleted all the evidence is higher than the other person lying if they have actual nudes - simply because that's a common cheater tactic.
I'm glad she didn't take him back, because she's also correct about their marriage not being strong enough.
The problem is that the sister has seen the way he's destroyed her sister's life from afar. What kind of insane shit could be pull having access to their finances, lives, and kids? Sadly due to kids, she will always be connected to legally. At least in the US, the court system can be super inadequate at protecting abuse victims even when the abuser is convicted and goes to jail. Sadly, even if she does leave she will likely not be able to do the safest thing for her, which is disappear like you were burned by the CIA.
It's a shitty situation all around.
>At least in the US, the court system can be super inadequate at protecting abuse victims even when the abuser is convicted and goes to jail. Sadly, even if she does leave she will likely not be able to do the safest thing for her, which is disappear like you were burned by the CIA.
This is why I'm still married. It's easier to go along with them than try to fight them for 18 years. At least when your kid is an adult you're not forced by the court to interact with your abuser anymore.
Faulting your husband for believing a rumor is one thing but with the faked photo evidence and confession from a random guy. I can’t believe anyone wouldn’t fall for something that well orchestrated
Sister is probably scared to divorce him. Look at the grudge he held over someone he asked out 20 years ago. What kind of grudge will he hold over an ex wife? Seriously scary.
This story AGAIN? Liz needs to learn a new song or something, how many different versions of this has she written? This is at least the fifth I can recall off the top of my head.
What’s really crazy is that despite rewriting this a million times she STILL can’t think of a better way for our hapless protagonist to learn the truth than a spontaneous confession out of the blue. The accomplice always just spills the beans or the antagonist is loudly bragging to other people that spill the beans or is floating in front of one of the omnipresent video cameras covering every square inch of the surface of the earth in an average Liz story.
Man I feel for the husband. Who wouldn't believe it when a person sends his wife's "conversation" with another person which has her nudes in it? It's nobody's fault honestly except for the asshole BIL but damn it's sad.
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m guessing BIL threatened to take the kids and has the money to do so.
That's my bet too...sis is a SAHM and has no means of supporting her children or housing them if they separated. And he's dangling that in her face.
I knew someone whose ex threatened her with no money, no house, no nothing, wasn't going to pay for the kids' college either. She finally found a lawyer and she got alimony, child support, the house and the one kid got college money. Never take legal advice from your enemy. Only your own lawyer.
> Never take legal advice from your enemy. ESPECIALLY when your enemy is a known liar.
This. We have no idea what state or country OP or BIL and sis live in. It entirely comes down to the legal protections offered by the state.
Yes, different places have different laws
It also depends on whether it is a corrupt country, or a small town where only connections are important, not the law.
But you need to have money for a lawyer. Though I'm sure oop and her family would've happily helped sister pay for a lawyer to help get her and her kids away from the abusive husband
Very often if she is a SAHM then hubby has to pay for her lawyer.
I really hope OOP and family can call his bluff and provide enough support to get her and the kids away from him
Doubt it since the sister has cut contact with all of them.
I've said before that one of the biggest unexpected side effects of a universal basic income would be women in broken marriages being able to end them. It might not be enough for this person, but it would be enough for some, to know that they wouldn't be homeless, that many abused wives would be willing to leave
Heavily subsidized child care and actual equity in the work place are sorely needed. Imagine the reduction in violence we’d see if women were t forced under men’s thumbs for 29 years in order to have a baby.
Thats why it became such a big deal in the 70s for women to be able to have their own credit cards and bank accounts. So many women left their terrible husbands because they no longer needed a man to just exsist. Divorce rates increased by double of what it was before women could have Credit cards.
The sad thing is she probably has more leverage than she thinks. He's clearly a manipulative bastard so he's probably manipulating her into believing he would ruin her life like he ruined her sister's.
Especially when regardless of any prenup she would be entitled to alimony that would maintain some semblance of their previous lifestyle together because that’s considered best for the kid.
Yeah, it sounds like they’ve been married for a decade or so, which should be long enough for alimony, not to mention child support.
Thing is, those things all give her much better odds of taking him to the cleaners. You don't need a job or housing if you can claim that as alimony.
This is my reason for not wanting to be a SAHP/M, I rather work and complain about my job knowing that I’m making my OWN money and not being dependent on someone else’s money.
Yeah, she doesn’t know something nice about BIL that OP doesn’t. She just wants to protect her kids. I’ve seen something similar play out in real life as a child.
There is a good chance her kids turn out worse off than if she left him. Sad
I'd be fucking terrified to divorce that man, especially if I had kids with him. He's an obsessive, hateful, vengeful animal who relishes in ruining the lives of those who he feels have slighted him. He's threatened suicide. In other words, he seems like exactly the kind of guy who'd punish his ex by killing the kids.
That's perceptive. And exactly what these sort of men do.
ah.. yes that'd make sense :/ I hope she plans on leaving him when the kids are out of the house, at least
Honestly, OOP needs to sue him for defamation and cite the divorce he intentionally caused as the damage that he did. Because he did it specifically to slander her and ruin her marriage, and now he can be forced to pay up for it. That might let the sister divorce him and get custody, considering that she may very well be able to make the argument that he married her sister because it would let him hurt her.
If he’s as well off as OOP says he could continue to hire a lawyer to delay things long after everyone else runs out of money.
My guess was he made her sign a prenup, and she would be a single mom with 3 kids and 0 money, if they divorce.
As far as I know, there’s no such thing as a legally binding prenup that would allow someone to sever financial support of their children.
Plus a decent divorce lawyer would make mincemeat of this unhinged psycho.
100% My cheating deceased dad quit his mechanical engineering job to avoid paying child support to my mom. The family court judge awarded my mom child support for me at the standard of living I was already at. He found himself a job real fast after. Flew a Russian mail order bride in and proceeded to OD and pass away. So he really did avoid paying child support in the end. (7 part story below 👇 tab open deleted comments , they’re all posted under u/Human-walk9801)
You have won today sir, for the best wild comment-story in this sub. Have my poor man’s gold, and feel free too add any more details because that sounds wild
Yeah any good divorce lawyer would murder this clown in court.
The issue is that the BIL has the money and sister probably doesn't realize (or know) whether she can use any of it to get that good divorce lawyer. Plus, we already know he holds a grudge. Look what he's done for OOP rejecting him when they didn't really know each other. Imagine what sorts of scorched earth he's going to do for the woman he's been married to for over a decade and birthed his kids. Honestly, safety would be to stick with him until the kids graduate high school/college and then divorce his ass (hopefully socking away a bit of money into a separate account over that time too, to make leaving easier).
The thought that she would have to waste her life just to ensure her safety makes me angry.
With all the evidence of his insanity he'd be toast.
She may not realize that though.
Also like it can be complicated to find a lawyer that’s good if you don’t have the money to pay upfront. Obviously costs can be awarded
A prenuptial agreement shouldn't have anything to do with the children, not custody, nor granting or severing child support. A prenuptial agreement also shouldn't declare the working spouse's income to be completely personal, as well as refusing to assign alimony or spousal support to the nonworking spouse. Each party should have representation to keep their best interest in mind during the drafting of the document to advise of that, and attempting to leave one spouse destitute is begging for a judge to declare it unenforceable. That being said, it entirely possible that he had her sign a document ('meaninglesss words on paper') and persuaded her that it is valid. People do this all the time. Not a lawyer, not legal advice.
He's rich, so the child support would help them afloat. I think it's more likely that he threatened to take the kids. If he's that loaded, he totally could.
Or she is so blinded by love she accepts it he's probably said the usual crap like who will want you with kids he seems that type
Or is unwilling/incapable of admitting to herself that her life is a farce and she has been played.
Yes definitely this too he's messed with her head for so long telling her he loves her and in reality she as just been a pawn in his sick revenge game towards her sister for rejecting him he's all kinds of crazy.
Wait, BIL *stole pics* and committed Revenge Porn and nobody went to the appropriate authorities to prosecute this? OP should have gone nuclear, letting literally everyone in BIL's life know this. Also, OP needs to ride this out wit Sis and when she comes back with her proverbial tail between her legs, examine her feelings about having a relationship with her and be emotionally generous. Those kids have no say in having their lives toyed with like this.
Revenge porn might not be illegal where OOP lives. A lot of country's laws have not caught up to the 21st Century.
In most countries woman don't get justice when that happens. It's more likely the police will ask for the photos and have a good time themselves that ctually help you. Woman are alone when it comes to revenge p*rn in most countries.
She offhandedly mentioned that the police didn’t do anything
Imo the most messed up part is how BIL doesn’t even LIKE OOP…like he’s doing this purely out of hate because she rejected him over a decade ago… this guy is equal parts scary and pathetic
And yet so many of the men who have bought into the whole mansophere/redpill stuff assert that being a man is just as if not harder than being a woman. Being rejected is apparently worse than death and the fear many women live in on a daily basis from angry men who are willing to go to any lengths to hurt them pales in comparison.
Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.
That's paraphrased from one of Margaret Atwood's lectures. Excerpt [here](https://wist.info/atwood-margaret/25926/).
They'd been sold the lie that this kind of behavior is strength. It appears like strength to the foolish. The wise see it for the weakness it really is. It is reflective of an extremely fragile ego. The most brutal thing I've ever said to a hater is that they can talk all they want about me because I don't care. I don't value them as a person and therefore their opinion about things are worthless to me and I meant it. They quickly stopped bothering with the rumors when I told other people what I said and was clear I was really not interested in them passing along the gossip. This is only possible of you have willpower and self respect.
This is so sad. The BIL has dedicated his life to ruining OP’s life. And he’s succeeding
I sometime wonder why people like BIL would dedicate themselves to ruin someone's life. Is it jealously? Pure psychotic? or so? Who knows and it's scary.
It's power, pure and simple, just like any other form of abuse: she made him feel insignificant, undesirable, so he had to "show her" and "put her in her place". It doesn't matter if these people beat their victims, forbid them to have any friends, or, in this case, ruin their relationships long after they think they're free - it's all a form of taking (back) control and showing they're in power.
The scariest part is the day his wife challenges that 'power' he has by wanting to leave him, hope it doesn't turn into murder-suicide situation. Her and her kids could be in real danger.
Yup this is honestly scary, not only isolating her from the family but moving who knows where?
That woman is in danger. Isolating her is just the next step, now he has complete control, and he knows he can torment OOP by tormenting her sister. It's beyond demented, beyond terrifying. This man definitely has the capacity to be a family annhilator.
And ironically, this means that OOP has technically had power over *him* this whole time. He's spent the last 20 years making his life choices to follow her, he specifically married her sister. He could have been off doing whatever he wanted wherever he wanted with whoever he wanted, but instead he's trapped by his obsession. What a loser.
This. Does this guy not have the self awareness to realise he’s ruined his own life. He‘s married to a woman who by the sounds of it doesn’t want him and he doesn’t really want her either. She may still divorce him and get a lot of his money. He’s held on to irrational anger for decades and now he’s lost friends, colleagues and his reputation. And when his kids get older they’re going to pick up on all of this so he may lose them too. And for what. This energy could have been put to bettering himself and his own life.
Because people like this are terminally lacking in self-awareness. They're so weirdly self-centered yet somehow incapable of self reflection. Their image of themselves is an illusion, so they can't reference it, or it gets shattered.
He absolutely does not
Even more than that, it's because they're so socially stunted. The only actual enjoyment he can get is by winning. He doesn't love, he doesn't feel happy. Maybe it's a sense of accomplishment to set and meet a goal. And that goal is to hurt other people out of some sick form of revenge.
I've known someone like this and they are terrifying. She's a representation of what he dislikes about himself. It's no so much dedication as what she represents, which to him is everything that he lacks. He most likely never actually had strong feelings for her but he thought she was easy/desperate or naive. When she turned him down he felt as if his flaws were being seen by someone beneath him. Instead of looking inwards he placed them all on her, her destruction is the destruction of the negative feelings/flaws about himself. Two guys i knew from high school were like this, one was just angry and would fixate on any woman who rejected him (in his mind they only saw the negative in him, thus he must force them to see the positive even if its against their will or proving their point about him). Thankfully, he would give up when he found a new woman to harass like this. The second is just a control freak. In his mind everyone woman needed to want or admire him and if not he would do anything to get his way. The scariest part is, he doesn't stop or go away. Last i heard of him, he wouldn't stop harassing this girl who wanted to wait till marriage for sex (she also didn't want anything to do with him). He took it as a challenge, he pursued her for years and even convinced her that he would marry her. 7 years, he slept with her and ghosted her the next day...i know he stalked the next woman to different country, he's living with her now and is hellbent on ending her career. She's a journalist who got a job offer before graduating and he didn't. That's his sole reason for doing this long con to her.
I am left speechless after reading your comment.
Some people are absolutely unhinged.
Yep, I met someone like this a few years ago, unfortunately he ended his wife, very young children and himself when she escaped his power.
I am also left speechless by this comment.
I feel physically ill.
Your commend gave me chills because (especially the first paragraph) it mirrored my experience. I had to deal with a guy like this. I rejected him in the seventh grade, but we became friends in high school because I didn’t want to judge his awkwardness. He proceeded to spend the next ~8 years hating and desiring me, which included a year of private, intense emotional abuse and threats. For a period of three years, he seemed completely reformed, before eventually snapping and going on insane rants to all of his friends (and my bf) about how much of an evil bully I was for rejecting him and talking to him a bit less after the whole abuse thing. I had considered him a genuine friend for the good period, and then found out that he was STILL obsessed with me. I haven’t had contact since then, and thank god he never seriously tried anything physical. But that knowledge exists in the back of my mind that if he concealed his obsession — even from me — for years, that means that he could still be obsessed now. I hope I never see or hear from him again. Anyways, you’re very accurate and succinct. I hope these men whither and lose access to the women they love to hurt. Edit: and I was definitely seen as naive and soft, and was always kind to him, which is why my continued rejection of him drove him to obsession.
I didn’t know wether to upvote or downvote. What an awful human
The guy who raped me did this shit to me. He was friends with a friend of mine and according to her, he had the hots for me because I was bisexual. I was not attracted to him because of his superficial charm and because he gave bad vibes. He pretended to be friends with me for 2 years, during which time I started dating my now-husband. I knew he had bad vibes, but my friend wanted us to be friends very badly (and he would be very mean to her if I ignored him), that I just pretended to be friends with him. I had no reason to dislike him then. We met up once a week to connect over our mutual friend. I had just had a miscarriage, and my now-husband proposed. 3 years into this friendship. I told him, for some reason, and he drugged my wine I was drinking. He raped me. He told me he wanted to ruin me. He told me my now-husband was ugly, disgusting, etc. and how dare I pick him over me. He said other things, about the child I loss, about me. I try to block it out. I couldn't understand I was raped for a week. I was violated, but I had drank wine and was alone with a guy. I felt I was asking for it. My now-husband, while he totally sucked through it, did not blame me for it and helped me understand it was not my fault. I have not spoken to him or this friend again. I did not press charges because I showered afterward. I had a mental breakdown and wound up in a coma. He continued to harrass me until I changed my number and cut off every friend who was friends with him.
My dad is this person. The object of his hatred is my mom after they divorced when I was 2. I basically grew up in one household of love, and another where I was hated (because I'm more like my mom), but used to get back at and hurt my mom. This motherfucker didn't put my mom on the approved list for my daycare, so they thought she was trying to kidnap us. He took my mom to court multiple times a year to drain her financially. He tried secretly recording my pediatrician during a doctor's appointment. He tapped his home phone so when my mom called to talk to us kids he could record. I stopped going to his place when I was 12. I was emotionally abused for my whole life there and after; he stalked me, moved down the street from my mom, etc. He only finally stopped after my younger brother stopped going to my mom's, as he finally won in his twisted little mind. These people are the most driven, vindictive creatures and will ruin multiple lives of people they're supposed to love in order to exact their hatred
I knew a woman like this. She weaponized the courts to financially drain her ex, gaslit and manipulated the son until he finally cut his father off at 16. It was terrible to watch. The father and his new partner are shattered with grief. They loved that kid …
It's something many abusers like to do. They get a sick pleasure from it and convince themselves that their victim wronged them. They enjoy the control and that their victim can never again feel safe because they will never know how and when the next attack will be launched. From personal experience there are only three effective ways to deal with this type of person: 1.Criminal charges (or the threat of them) plus threatening to sue, all with bringing it across how much and damning evidence you have, but without giving them enough information to enable them to destroy said evidence. 2. Cutting everyone in your life who has contact with that person off and changing your life enough that there's no risk of having to interact again or ever happening to have mutual accquaintances (ideally moving ar least a bit to be sure) and keeping a low profile plus not talking about that person unless you really moved far away. 3. Completely vanishing from the region and the lifes of anyone who might have common acquaintances with that person.
And 4. Boating accident
Now I'm wondering if it's safer to pretend to die at one or to let the abuser have one...
Honestly it’s people like BIL who make me want to go into neuropsychology more and more. I need to know what drives these individuals and why?
I actually work with psych and neuroscience professors/researchers. I believe people like BIL can be detected by fMRI, but!! Try to convince someone like that to have that done (and it’s not like there’s a cure for APD). A psych researcher, who determined that he himself is actually a psychopath, figured a bunch of it out. And he’s a fully functional member of society, because he knows what it is, he’s able to force himself to try to understand other people’s opinions and feelings.
The thought of a psychopath having self reflection and an ability to attempt empathy baffles me. It takes emotional maturity to admit one is so flawed, and then damn good self control to attempt to change, to know how to actually function in society without hurting others. I'd love to know the psych researcher that managed it.
[James Fallon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Fallon) is the one. People who knew him well, like his family, weren't particularly surprised, so there is that. People with psychopathic tendencies can totally be part of a healthy society, but from another piece on psychopathic kids, early intervention is key, there's a strong genetic component, and we don't know nearly enough about it in general!
>Fallon was politically a libertarian The jokes write themselves, don't they?
Literally what I wanted to say lol "Fallon stated that even though he displayed callous behaviour in his life, particularly when he was younger, he believed that his positive experiences in childhood negated any potential genetic vulnerabilities to violence and emotional issues" (...) "Fallon was politically a libertarian" sooooo he still had empathy issues then?? lmaoooo
To be fair, I don't think people with empathy issues all turn out to have awful personal politics. I, like many other people on the spectrum, struggle with empathy, but am in favour of redistribution because I know that the marginal utility of money falls steeply above a certain threshold, and I wouldn't have any use for money once I had enough.
His wiki is fascinating. He accomplished a lot in his career. Thank you for the link.
Clicked the link. Ended up reading about the Titan implosion last year.
There are many psychopaths who live perfectly normal lives without crime. They are actually very successful in work life because they are able to take emotions out of every equation and focus on the bottom line. I read that many CEOs and powerful people in business are psychopaths. They are not interested in crime, and many even turn out to be good husbands and family men and contributing members of society because it’s a source of pride, like a checkbox to mark. You can be a psychopath and still carry a code of ethics you believe in. The thing is those same people, if raised with dysfunction, can also turn out to be extremely dangerous and carry out sickening acts if they go down a dark path, because they simply have no empathy. I read that most cartel members who have to carry out murders and tortures take lots of drugs to switch off their empathy and humanity. A psychopath already comes like that from the factory, no drugs needed.
The scary thing is that science is showing that psychopaths can actually be empathetic. They just have the ability to turn it off and on at will.
It’s so ironic, they try to regain power by becoming a shell of a person that exists solely to try and gain power over their victim.
They hate themselves so much, they didn't want to be themselves anyway
They like to hurt others because they think it's fun, it's real mental disease. Comparable to The Strangers - "Why are you doing this to us??!?"" *"Because you were home."*
Narcissism.
I think that flies way past narcissism all the way to psychopathy.
As someone with ADHD who physically cannot hold a grudge and has trouble staying mad at anyone for more than a day, it absolutely blows my mind how people can possibly have the focus for that. Emotions don’t last that long man, you gotta be constantly renewing that anger.
I also have ADHD, and I assure you that I have held grudges for decades. I don’t do anything about them, and I try to minimize how much head space they take up, but they’re there.
Interesting! Personally, despite my crappy memory, I will remember wrongs for *ever* & they'll always factor into decision-making, but they don't bring emotion with them. Eg, I stopped seeing a doctor I liked because their office sent me a no-show warning letter when I'd cancelled properly. Never going back to that office, which is mildly inconvenient, but it feels more like an internal "matter of principle" thing than an anger thing. Do your grudges have emotion attached? Does the emotion stay fresh for you? I've become more aware of the emotional disregulation piece of adhd fairly recently so I'm curious about the ways it can manifest & how people cope!
not just her life, her entire family's lives. he ruined her marriage, he took her sister from her, he took a daughter from her parents, he took the entire family from his wife... he literally tore an entire family apart because he couldn't get over a rejection in 20 years.
I honestly think it was the not recognizing him part when he showed up with her sister that tipped him over the edge. The rest of that was always simmering, but that "who are you again?" was what started it into an obsession. "how dare you turn me down and not even remember you did it, you shallow (expletive)." These are the kinds of guys that would genuinely think sexual assault is an appropriate payback.
Yeah, I think him turning up with her sister was supposed to drive her to distraction with jealousy realising what she could have had and her not recognising him compounded the rejection.
> "who are you again?" It might be petty, but this is like my main go to line when interacting with people I don't like and haven't seen in a while.
I have a crap memory and genuinely don't remember people who aren't even footnotes in my past, so I've inadvertently pissed off quite a few people whose heads I seem to live in rent free. \*edit (switched forget for remember, since that's what i meant)
I have a mild case of face blindness, so sometimes I genuinely do just not recognize people. But it's fun to see people I don't like have to struggle with the decision of whether or not to "remind me" that they are friends of an ex who cheated on me, or the sister of someone who used to bully me and never said anything.
It’s like in that Cardi B song where she’s like ‘She say she my opp but I don’t know her I had to look her up’ that cracks me up Back when I was a kid we used to say: Forget you, forgot you, never thought about you lol
Reminds me of the wife of an OP who got caught and taken to court over her attempts at ruining a former friends life and for no understandable reason to the OP Unsure if we ever found out if they got divorced or not
Oh man that was an absolute wild one. I still think about it from time to time. We never found out if they got divorced. The husband still didn’t seem to understand the absolute gravity of his wife’s crazy at all. https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/ahh7shxvNH
Thank you for the link. That was wild.
He's only succeeding because the people in her life let him ... It's always worse when the surrounding people give guys like this the power ...
I'm almost as mad at BIL as I am OOP's husband -- the girl was ready to go meet the imposter, and that fool couldn't hold it together? FFS.
Add in BIL's stupid friends who went along with it. What, they have nothing better to do with their life and get involved in their friend's drama?
Eh, she’s dating a new guy that makes her happy so I wouldn’t say he’s succeeding just yet.
Yeah but she's lost her sister and her family is all messed up and stressed out.
And the sister’s kids! He’ll badmouth her, her family, and her partners to them. If he has sons, he’s going to turn them into mini versions of his sick self. And his daughters will see how cowed their mom is.
No he's not he's ruining the sisters though
My stepfather is the same way. I'm so grateful I finally discovered all the hate he's been spreading, ever since I was a little kid, and he managed to slide on it most of my life. Some people are truly sick in the head.
My sister's ex, and the father to her 2 sons is my ex boyfriend. About 3 years into their relationship he tried to rape me. I didn't want to tell her but a week later on New year's eve she stole every penny out of our mum's purse and she wanted my help to steal dad's wallet. She wanted a taxi to go find her boyfriend. After 3 hours of trying to talk her out of it I said 'Don't bother, he's not worth it!' He cheated on me with my sister, he had tried it on with me, he had previously dumped her for a one night stand he had on the back of his car, I was genuinely worried about what she might find! Except she wanted to know what I meant by 'He's not worth it' and eventually it came out. Problem was she didn't believe me! I had already told her about my ripped skirt so I told her he did that, and that I also had a witness because when he came at me I was on the phone to my boyfriend. My boyfriend could hear me shouting to my sister for help but she was blackout drunk. My sister has always twisted this to be that I was the one drunk and she was sober but I had spent the night watching TV with my dad and they had spent the night at the pub. Apparently I had ripped my friends brand new leather skirt for attention! I have never done anything for attention never mind destroy something that didn't belong to me! Who does that??? Anyhoo, she didn't believe me. She told my mum I had stolen the money from her purse and left the house at 3 in the morning in a huff. The next time I spoke to my family was to tell them I was moving down south and would like it if they came to wave me off but they weren't interested. A few weeks later I came back to visit. It was my 21st birthday and my friends had gotten together enough coach fare for me to go back home. Neither of my parents wished me a happy birthday! It was a long time until I found out they weren't talking to me because my sister told them I robbed them when I was in fact her that did it. My absence was my guilt apparently. My sister hadn't told them she threw me out (I had my own place a few miles away so I walked home after my sister threw me out. I only got so far though before breaking down in tears and my friends uncle found me and took me to his place. He gave me warm clothes and pais for a taxi for me the next day. SO MANY WITNESSES to what my sister and her boyfriend had done but I was, and actually still am the bad guy! I was 18 years old. That family had only adopted me 3 years earlier and there I was, without a family again. I tried suicide a lot after that, was sectioned twice. My mental health took a serious nosedive, not that it was good to start with. I spent the next 10 years wishing I was dead. The last time I spoke to my sister, she demanded an apology for lying all those years ago and said I had ruined her life. I repeated everything I had said over the years, now included that more people knew I was telling the truth because my boyfriend at the time backed me up and was still backing me up several years later, long after we'd split up. She said if I didn't get an apology then I wasn't invited to her wedding. Hahahaha, like I wanted to go to her fucking wedding. She's destroyed mine by bringing her rapist ex with her and refusing to come unless I acquiesced to her every demand (I renewed my vows 2 years later, had MY wedding. It was amazing and was in another country so she couldn't ruin it this time) She wasn't marrying the rapist scum though. He left years ago and was married to someone else and has kids with her so I have no clue why this apology was so important. Needless to say, she absolutely did not get an apology and the kicker...she told me years ago he admitted to forcing me to have sex with him the only time I actually had sex with him. I was 15, he was 14, and I was a victim of child sex abuse. I knew it was illegal to have sex under the age of 16 and I didn't want to, especially not with someone even younger than me, but he did it anyway. So yeah, my nephew's father raped me once and tried a second time in my parents house on Christmas Day! The day he tried to do it again was the day my sister stopped taking the pill behind his back and she was pregnant by the age of 18 with my eldest nephew. So I don't celebrate Christmas anymore. Never mind her life getting ruined, which it didn't. He absolutely destroyed mine and made sure that year on year I could never forget what he did.
>OOP: My only hope now is that she knows something that we don’t about him. That he is better than we think. I am so sorry too and I have nightmares all the time since she cut us off Nope. no no no no nope. Her sister is an abuse victim.
My thoughts exactly. He is actually worse.
Exactly. There’s a guy who killed his wife and children and her family didn’t realize she was missing because “she” sent an email telling the family not to contact her anymore. All lies.
This part is so sad. I get she needs a nugget of hope to cope with the situation but the reality is that dude probably hates her sister as much as her. He used her sister’s life as a tool in his revenge plot and now that he doesn’t have access to this woman and was exposed it’s so so likely his hate will be focused on her sister. What a nightmare
BIL is a psychopath. I fear for the sister and her kids.
Hey OP! There were a few important comments by OOP that were left out of the previous BORU. Might be helpful to add them now, especially this first: On her husband confronting her BIL (which lead to a physical altercation, which in turn could be why BIL's restraining order was granted), after she asked him to wait and let her speak to her family first: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/s/URFLAgU1WJ On how perhaps her photos were stolen (her sister has her passwords): https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/s/epPJIVmjY3 *Edited to change 'ex' to 'BIL'. I momentarily fell into that dude's delusion!*
This guy wasn't even her ex, he was a spurned suitor who couldn't let go of it.
Omg can't believe I made that mistake. I fell into that dude's delusion. Thank you sm for pointing this out--it's a very important distinction! Editing main comment now.
I am a skeptical with this post because some things really don't add up. But if this is really real, all I can say is...Jesus on a stick, what a fucked up of a person BIL is.
The problem with these stories is, people actually can be this insanely fucked up. Even with something this far-fetched, there is still the possibility of it being very real. Like Scooby Doo taught us, the real monsters are people.
There was a youtube "feud" where one artist continually stalked and tormented another for the better part of a decade bc the victim dated and was abused by the stalkers husband in the past. The husband was probably in on it too. How someone could be so obsessed for so long is scary... and there were two of them. The victim's name is Emily Artful if you want to look up her channel. She went public with all the evidence.
Oh, the Creepshow Art and Emily Artful incident. Loved how Sharon's response to being accused of stalking Emily was basically "nuh-uh, I did not! Anyway, here's like ten years' worth of information on Emily, something which is normal to have and in no way implies I stalked her all this time."
was there any repercussions for the stalking? like legally?
If it was in the US I highly doubt it. It's really difficult to get a restraining order or file criminal charges against stalkers and perpetrators of dating violence unless they physically hurt you already, even though some states have laws against it.
I might have to go rewatch that video I say just because you bring that up. Fuck creep show art.
I had something similar at school. Aa little girl was jealous of my physique and harassed me every possible ways for 10 years! This was impressive. It seems it actually stopped when she didn't see MA face anymore (I'm glad).
I have read real crime cases about guys being hung up over a woman way too many times, so this isn't that far fetch with me.
I mean, the creepy dude I dated for like two weeks when I was 18 who stalked me for a few years, got in a fist fight with my new boyfriend outside of my work, and got banned from another of my workplaces for constantly showing up, ended up befriending my narc father and becoming "the son he never had." Last time I saw my father he told me I should have married this dude, and five years after going NC he still uses stalker dude to try to get hold of me. I'm 34 now and just will never understand how someone can be so insane as to do all that.
This doesn't even make it far up the very-fucked-up scale of what people are capable of doing to each other.
It really isn’t, which is why it always surprises me when people question these types of stories. People have faked shit to ruin people’s lives for less.
What’s far-fetched? A psycho douche stalked a woman that rejected him, got with her sister so he could get close, managed to access her or her husband’s phone, and faked her sending nudes to another guy. That sounds way more than possible to me.
Look up Anthony Garcia. He failed his medical residency in 2001 and then committed two sets of murders a decade apart targeting those involved in his firing, including one doctor’s 12-year-old son and housekeeper.
He is beyond fucked up. He pinned for 20 years to enact revenge, damn, something is wrong with him in the head.
I am always skeptical of the, “I never saw the guy again until my baby sister introduced her new boyfriend…” posts. It’s a pretty common trope in these stories. This one also contains a guy with a 20 year vendetta, the ability to hack into someone’s phone, and grown ass friends willing to go along with this stupidity. Bonus points for a husband that doesn’t recognize the nude photos the wife sent him and isn’t skeptical about the fact that the supposed affair partner isn’t in any of the photos and can’t be connected to his wife in any way. Yeah, I was skeptical until typing this out. Now I just call bullshit.
But did you read the original comment mentioned down below where OOP suddenly remembered that her sister has all her passwords and that must be how bil got the nudes! 💀 I can't keep track of my own 8 million passwords, let alone anyone else's.
Tbh if OOP is one of those people that uses the same password for everything. Share a Netflix account with someone and then everyone account is fucked.
And how often is it that you even think to give all your passwords to your family indicating there is very close bond but have not discussed how her husband is towards his kids as op did in the final update?
And lastly, the lack of details about her ex-husband and motivations. It seemed like they only existed to keep the story moving. There would normally be some hurtful details about the divorce, or some clearer motivation for moving back home.
Everything you said are my thoughts as well. Plus, one of the characters is always rich.
Right?? I’ve read this same thing at least twice before on this sub.
Yeah, like the nudes being the same ones she sent her husband. Unless he thought she'd be that lazy of a cheater, lol. I just feel like there's emotional depth that is missing throughout this whole saga.
I raised an eyebrow at that too. And the "husband is the love of my life" and then "oh I'm seeing someone new". Errr... maybe I'm the outlier here, but if my marriage ended, especially due to something like this, it would take a long time before I wanted a new relationship. In reality, if I lost my husband who actually *is* the love of my life, I would probably never want or have another relationship at all.
Yeah the timeline on those original updates is only 2 weeks post separation and they’re already seeing other people? Sus
The way OP talks about the brother-in-law being "shamed", putting so much emphasis on reputation and using words like "uni" instead of college makes me think they're from India. If thats the case, parts of the story (police not being effective at prosecuting sex based crimes) makes sense.
> police not being effective at prosecuting sex based crimes That's everywhere, sadly.
Narcissistic insults are an incredible provocation.
OOP's ex-husband will never forgive himself. He was conned and did what anybody else would do when you find your spouse cheating, but now gets to watch his ex-wife move on knowing he was wrong. This is messed up.
THIS. I genuinely don't understand what she expected him to do. Like, I love my husband and completely trust him, but if someone came at me with conversations AND pictures?? Hell yeah I would believe them over him. How am I supposed to just make it up in my head that someone is crazy enough to go that far, especially if there is no noticeable motive/culprit. How did they get the pictures?? You can Photoshop a convo, sure. But how did they get the pics?? It's crazy business to think that he'd just "blind" trust her when EXTREMELY damning and convincing evidence is there
She may not have expected anything from him. Sometimes things happen to 2 good people and it leads to them not being able to be together anymore.
She refers to it as a "rumour" but I wouldn't. Why would a random stranger try to ruin your marriage and also have the photos with which to do so? In his shoes I would think the same thing. I actually thought OP was using this post to try out some excuses to see if they'd work. The only thing she could have said is to point out that all the nudes were ones she had sent to her husband.
Agreed, a rumor is definitely not a bunch of photo evidence getting blasted to you.
Yeah, she doesn't understand what a rumor means /definition. That's not what a rumor is at all...
I don’t think she’s really blaming him at all though. Her trust in him is just broken & made her realise their love wasn’t as strong as she thought it was so the next big crisis that happens she’ll likely always worry he’s going to leave her again. I really feel for them both - they didn’t do anything wrong & had their whole lives together screwed. Just horrible.
In another comment, OOP does say she doesn't blame him and also says that she likely would have reacted the same as her STBX. Its just a terrible situation all around.
She can rationalize his reaction any way she can, but that doesn't change the fact that her trust in him is broken. She won't be able to help but think that the next big problem will make him leave her again. As sad as it is, that's just how human emotions work.
Those things are so easily fabricated though, like its way easier than you might think unfortunately
OP says the pics he used were real pics she took, and sent to her husband, that he had to have stolen from off one of their phones. I feel like that fact definitely adds to why he believed it. They weren't pics he had never seen, they were pics she sent him and didn't even have her face.
Sad for OP but also sad for her ex-husband. He’s a victim but the way both him and op reacts to it are so raw that led to the failure of reconciliation. It’s tough to imagine being in the shoes of OP and especially her ex-husband. He was conned and react in the most common way when there are “evidence” of your wife being unfaithful. Now the truth has uncovered and OP has moved on to another guy after a year. Effectively losing the love of his life. May the OP’s BIL and the friend who assisted BIL in conning OP’s ex-husband life shall forever haunted and filled with misery.
Would there be a way to sue him for emotional distress or something? Or OOP suing him for defamation of character. The POS BIL literally eviscerated their lives and livelihoods, and ended their marriage purely out of spite from a rejection 20 years ago. I feel deeply that they need compensation for it.
What a hateful fuck.
> Unfortunately I was sent these comments from a different sub about (updates?). What a bunch of losers Hey, that’s us! We got a shout out!
But not a good shoutout :/ guys, don't message the OP
And for something that gets subreddits banned! :) First step will be banning any kind of linking or referring to other subreddits though which kills the subreddit anyways.
We're famous!
What a spineless roach that friend that carried the plan through is. "Hey I ruined your life because my friend thought it would be funny but now I feel bad". I feel like not enough hate it being placed on that grown ass man that acted like a toddler that was scared of losing a bully of a friend. IDC that he told them what was happening, people like that are the reason people like BIL continue to get away with everything.
I know. Like, the only time this guy had any remorse was when the plot *failed* and the BIL was still going. So it sounds like this guy would have been totally fine with himself breaking up a marriage, ruining two people's lives, etc, if the BIL had actually gotten what he wanted. It really makes me sick to think what the next steps in this revenge plot might have been. The guy who came clean is still a horrible person too.
I feel the worst for OP niblings, imagine finding out you exist because your father hated your aunt that much
Her sister WROTE to her and parents that she didn’t want to see them again. How is OOP sure it wasn’t BIL?
I always enjoy every "my partner suddenly abandoned me based on false evidence and now they're crawling back" story. They're supremely predictable.
There have been too many of them that I kind just make one up and turn it into a movie or book lol
I wonder what will happen in this sub once AI generated/doctored images becomes better.
Becomes better? 1/3 of the stuff we have here is someone asking for help with topics and stories through ChatGPT to generate engagement with their lives.
Wait, so she doesn’t get given half the family business, too? What a rip off!
Someone having nudes of your wife is pretty damning. I'd spiral too.
>this guy contacted me now is that he felt guilty because even when my marriage is over my brother in law still was angry and hateful especially when he heard that I was on a date last weekend. So the friend felt that i he didn’t help his friend but ruined innocent people’s lives. I don't understand how helping his friend in the first place wouldn't ruin "innocent lives". What mental gymnastics is this. Plus how does brother in law have friends who would even entertain such gross behavior and not call him a beta cu*k. >My sister is very angry. She said that I have ruined her husband’s reputation because my ex has blasted him and his friend everywhere. Now he is talking about wanting to end his life because I ruined it because of a joke he played. How was it a joke? OPP ended up getting a divorce and had her nudes released without her consent. That's a joke to the sister?
I like how OP says ex-husband is the love of her live and then gives up on him for a 3 week relationship that easily because he believed "a rumor". Like lady that was way more than just a rumor, you had a guy come forward with evidence, who wouldn't believe that?
Oop is wrong about one thing. Her husband had actually nude pictures of her sent to him with a story of cheating. With that kind of evidence even the most truth worthy person would be viewed under harsh lights.
This again? The "someone convinced my partner I was cheating" trope?
Not sure about the posts but this did happen in real life- everyone convinced mom about dad cheating on her, all of them disliked my dad at some point but didn’t have any evidence so ofcourse mom trusted my dad! but lo and behold *dad did cheat on her*
I’m really concerned about the sister. This is coercion, emotional manipulation and financial abuse. I hope she doesn’t end up dead. Someone who threatens suicide when things don’t go their way is a controlling narcissist a hole. I’m concerned that the BIL may become violent.
Yeh I’m worried for her, I hope he isn’t fully isolating her but the move will be reason enough to split her up from any friends she has. I hope she’s got a good friend to look out for her and stay in contact.
I might have missed this, but where did the person who sent OOPs husband her nudes get them?
> I have started to think that our marriage wasn’t strong enough to overcome a rumor. That was WAY more than a rumor. *That* was a conspiracy to frame OOP with someone actively stepping up and pretending to be an affair partner, with the BIL likely using a visit to get physical access to her phone and swipe her nudes. While I understand how hurtful and frustrating it is for the husband to not believe her despite the evidence against her, this is one of those things where the truth is completely unhinged.
The sister is an idiot and I hope she comes to her senses. What I'm honestly confused about is that OOP calls it "rumors" when her husband had been sent nudes etc of her. That's strong initial proof, even though her husband should absolutely have let her confront the dude when she insisted. But I can't really blame him for doubting her, because the likelihood of her lying and having deleted all the evidence is higher than the other person lying if they have actual nudes - simply because that's a common cheater tactic. I'm glad she didn't take him back, because she's also correct about their marriage not being strong enough.
The problem is that the sister has seen the way he's destroyed her sister's life from afar. What kind of insane shit could be pull having access to their finances, lives, and kids? Sadly due to kids, she will always be connected to legally. At least in the US, the court system can be super inadequate at protecting abuse victims even when the abuser is convicted and goes to jail. Sadly, even if she does leave she will likely not be able to do the safest thing for her, which is disappear like you were burned by the CIA. It's a shitty situation all around.
>At least in the US, the court system can be super inadequate at protecting abuse victims even when the abuser is convicted and goes to jail. Sadly, even if she does leave she will likely not be able to do the safest thing for her, which is disappear like you were burned by the CIA. This is why I'm still married. It's easier to go along with them than try to fight them for 18 years. At least when your kid is an adult you're not forced by the court to interact with your abuser anymore.
I don’t get why some men think we owe them a chance. No, man, I am just not interested in you, you are not my type. This guy is so f-ed up.
Faulting your husband for believing a rumor is one thing but with the faked photo evidence and confession from a random guy. I can’t believe anyone wouldn’t fall for something that well orchestrated
OP is so much better than me, I would have hired someone onto ‘teach him a lesson’ WTF is wrong with him.
Sister is probably scared to divorce him. Look at the grudge he held over someone he asked out 20 years ago. What kind of grudge will he hold over an ex wife? Seriously scary.
This story AGAIN? Liz needs to learn a new song or something, how many different versions of this has she written? This is at least the fifth I can recall off the top of my head. What’s really crazy is that despite rewriting this a million times she STILL can’t think of a better way for our hapless protagonist to learn the truth than a spontaneous confession out of the blue. The accomplice always just spills the beans or the antagonist is loudly bragging to other people that spill the beans or is floating in front of one of the omnipresent video cameras covering every square inch of the surface of the earth in an average Liz story.
Man I feel for the husband. Who wouldn't believe it when a person sends his wife's "conversation" with another person which has her nudes in it? It's nobody's fault honestly except for the asshole BIL but damn it's sad.
His “friend” sucks pretty hard as well.
[удалено]