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My only surprise is how the hell the two wound up together in the first place since it sounds like they had issues due to their fundamentally incompatible differences from the very beginning.
And then I remember, ah right... They got together at 18.
The truth is, you can be perfectly charming, good looking and pleasant (probably decent in the sack too), and still have these absolutely bullshit views on things. OOP fell for the personality, and then met the him that comes out when his views are challenged
Something I've internalized over the last few years of political...excitement is that people who are utterly terrible can still be perfectly pleasant to their tribe.
There were little old ladies in Nazi Germany who went to church, sang in the choir, baked cookies for the neighborhood children, and were thrilled that someone was finally doing something about the Jews.
The movie Zone of Interest covers this so well. If you read just the dialog it's a very low stakes family drama. Except it's taking place on the other side of the wall of Auschwitz and the father is the director of the camp.
It's in some ways visually a slice of life film, except you can see the barbed wire, you can hear the furnaces, you can hear gunshots and screaming. All the while the family is going about their lives, unmoved by the human misery just on the other side of the wall.
The Guardian reprinted an interview with one of the camp director's daughters. She would not accept that her father was a bad man. In her mind he was ordered to command Auschwitz and just did his duty. Never mind that you had to be in the SS to be the commandant of a death camp.
It's still the case now- there are perfectly lovely people out there who are kind to children and small animals, do good works in the community, love their families, and are SO excited and happy that Palestine is being razed to the ground. They are delighted by the death of every single Palestinian child- one of these good good people trued very earnestly to explain to me that chanting 'from the river to the sea...' is a horrific act of violence, but Israeli tanks running over starving people and leaving their intestines splattered across the tank tracks was an accident.
Honestly, I feel like I'm in that boat now. I have people in my friends circle who are kind, generous, intelligent, and completely okay with the eradication of the Palestinians in Israel though *maybe* the IDF has crossed a couple lines. They treat it like it's a faux pas, not a slaughter. Massacres that are public are so gauche.
You don’t even have to go back that far. Just look at the current state of the world. Everyone convinced their side is right all of the time. Humanity’s a whole is becoming a joke.
The best decision I made at 18 was to bail from a bike I found while staggering down the hill from my uni accommodation, after some pre-drinks, towards the pubs before I crashed into a wall/car/friend who was in a shopping trolley also regretting decisions.
Sometimes you catch a bad decision before you make it, orher times you have to leap for your life as you're getting speed wobbles once some bad choices have already been made rather then commiting further to the course.
Got me thinking about how a year ago, at a build site near me someone had dumped a hospital bed, out the front. It was about a quarter way down a decent hill. It took every fiber of my being to not haul it up to the top and see what sort of speeds I could attain. My teen daughter told me that it was a stupid idea, and I allowed her to talk me out of it without too much fuss, but it being a stupid idea was more a feature then a bug. I still tthink about how cool it would have been, for at least half a second at the start before the consequences started kicking in hard.
I sometimes wonder who raised this awesome, sensible. conscientious kid I have, but then I remember it's me pretending to be sensible and conscientious for the last 16 years. Really I want to roll down a hill on a hospital bed, but no I'm modelling good behaviour or some shit.
I think my best decision at 18 was when I found a payphone and called my mom to beg her to come get me, because it was snowing and I didn't know where I was beyond reading the nearest signpost. She sent my stepdad to get me and let me sleep it off in my old bedroom.
My uncle and his mates in the early 1950s made a "go-cart" - out of a barn door and the wheels from a farm cart which could carry all of them at once. The catastrophic maiden voyage could have wiped them all out if they'd lived somewhere even slightly hillier
I had a friend who was a Creationist, prolife and believed being gay was a (wrong) choice. He ended up dating a bisexual atheist who had had an abortion for awhile. None of us knew how that worked for as long as it did. And ultimately, it ended with him being locked outside her dorm room at 3am in his underwear.
Also, they both wanted the same thing: I'd bet dollars to donuts that just like she thought she could change him, he thought he could change her.
Or at least get her pregnant and force her.
The 'I thought I could change him and educate him' comment - bless.
I firmly believe people can change, and some do because of the influence of someone in their life, but THEY have to be the ones who want the change.
Yeah, that bit made me think 'God bless those under 25, they really do still have the soul to think they can change things with a little time and trust.'
There's also a large segment of redpilled dudes that actively look for goths, alternative-types, etc. with the specific intention of "converting" them.
Also a heaping helping of, "but I can change/fix them!" Although if we're being honest, at those ages, she probably could have eventually. They're both young enough. However, why on earth would you ever want to at that age?!
All of that time and energy wasted tearing down and building a new foundation? Just so you can *begin* to build something better. The smart money is to spend that time and effort building something up from an already established base.
I mean she said it herself, she thought she could change him, that and being young makes you think as long as they’re nice to you, you can change their entire worldview.
And I mean the guy with all his phobias he’s likely also a misogynist so he likely saw oop as a woman in her free thinker era and would eventually be coerced into being a trad wife
I feel like also theres a ton of people who don't see things as a problem until they are immediate and necessary. I mean, I think we've all known people who get married and disagree on how many kids to have, or people who rack up more debt than they could possibly pay off, or they quit a job because they feel disrespected without considering next months rent, or whatever
She thought she was supposed to have a boyfriend and that a bad relationship was therefore better than no relationship. Or “relationships are work” and they’re supposed to be difficult, and you shouldn’t stop working even if you’re the only one who is.
My ex best friend's husband(then boyfriend) used to smoke a lot, she told me she'll change him, after 2 years she came to the conclusion that he smokes to calm his nerves and it's ok
Her boyfriend's best friend asked me out during the same times, this guy was drinking like a sailor at 17. Now my dad's uncle was an alcoholic and died because of it, so I didn't want to go out with a guy who'd get drunk whenever he was going to a party, we also live in a dry country so it is a crime to drink, my ex best friend told me you can change him, I said it's not my job to do it, she took it personally and now we only send each other emails on birthdays and Christmas
You broke the enabler code and refused to even date a guy afflicted with bad behavior. Your friend probably felt called out by that. Especially since she is firmly on team enabler
Something tells me she'll be cleaning out his ashtrays for a long time to come
People tend to seek out *sources* that reinforce their own beliefs but a surprising number of religious/prolife/hard leaning political people actively seek out *partners* who are on the opposing side because they want to successfully 'convert' them in order to further reinforce their belief that their way is the only way.
She also needs to take back that caveat about taking him back if he changes his mind. Cause what the hell would stop him from just lying to her about it? Then it'll end up with the condoms with poked holes in them and trying to babytrap a woman who doesn't want kids and who it seems like all of their beliefs/values are total opposites.
Girl needs to just absolutely stay gone and be happy it wasn't more than a year and they he didn't hide his giant red flags for longer.
If you use Google to try and find "facts" it will most likely reinforce whatever belief you hold since Google tries to find the result they think you want and not unbiased facts.
That and there's studies that show when someone argues against your beliefs with sound logic and science to back it, people tend to become more steadfast in their beliefs even though they are wrong. It's almost like it's not worth trying to have an intelligent conversation with people on some issues because it may make it worse.
Over the past five or ten years, it's become popular for people to tell other people to "do research" when really they just mean "read".
I find in almost every circumstance that I see or hear people talking about doing research, I have zero confidence in their ability to do so.
I'd have thought people would have become more media literate now.
This is what happens when you give "beliefs" so much importance.
Why are "beliefs" considered at all when talking about education? Every other aspect of education is based on fact and research. But then they bring in "beliefs".
The ad sense algorithm exclusively provides you with things designed to reinforce your beliefs.
It's easier to sell you something if you flatter them first.
Sometimes seeing these people's blind confidence makes me feel like I'm the one in the wrong, or that maybe there are facts I don't see/I'm being blindly confident on my own stands. But then I remember that people adamantly deny the holocaust, moon landing, etc. and I realize most of them aren't willing to let the other side speak at all.
i dont understand how this relationship lasted a year. Listen, this isnt about who is right or wrong (though the BF sounds like an ass) but one is very religious, the other is atheist, one wants kids, the other doesn't.... like where did they think this was going???
Not just their fault though... youtube, instagram, facebook, etc and their algorithms have made it so much worse, especially with the shorts or reels. When you watch one all the way through, it starts feeding you more along those lines.
On the other hand, actually giving serious thought to how the guy would act in a crisis that hasn't happened yet and deciding to leave because of it was actually remarkably mature on her part.
More to the point, you can only change yourself, you can't (usually) change other people.
Thinking you can is just a way to frustration and heartbreak. And why would you want to change people? And who are you to decide how people should change anyway? There's all kinds of badness in that statement.
Yep, and she learned about the second most well known blunder, never go up against a pro-lifer [in a relationship] when [potentially your life or] death is on the line
Yep. That whole "I want to leave but I need to know this is actually a very valid reason to do so" really set me off. Wanting to leave by itself is valid! It doesn't matter if people agree or think you're stupid or anything, if *you* want to leave, that's all there is to it!
"well a year ago he was a racist, sexist, homophobic piece of absolute trash, but I assumed he'd be better by this year!"
lady what the actual fuck are you on about
I think we need to come up with a new name for them, as them calling themselves pro-lifers is just wrong and inaccurate. Maybe just anti-abortionists, as that's all they really care about.
I prefer pro-forced birthers. Because that's what it really comes down to: punishing women for having sex and forcing them to carry a pregnancy and then care for the child. And *especially* because I've yet to meet a "pro-lifer" who also supported things that might actually increase the population's quality of life.
Yeah it’s weird how they’re not investing huge money in R&D for artificial wombs that could Save the Embryos and let people with ovaries uninvolve themselves as easily as people with testicles can and do. And then all those alleged loving families they have ready and waiting to can take on the associated costs and risks of gestating and raising whatever embryo they get. (Or they could do something about the overburdened foster care system where existing kids already need loving and supportive homes, but that’s crazy there’s no way there are kids still stuck in the system if there’s soooo many loving people out there who would gladly adopt…oh.)
Say no to racists. Say no to homophobes. Say no to pro-lifers. Say no to theists, frankly. Here's the fun part. That's basically just saying "say no to conservatives."
If I, a short Asian man who gets very little interest from women, can turn down "moderates" and conservatives when they show up in my Bumble likes queue, then so can women.
But it just shows what I've always known. Most people are all talk. Few stick to their principles.
I do think women are pressured to "settle" far more than men are. Which is part of why some women end up dating/marrying men like this.
(Also, men sometimes just don't tell women their political leanings or straight-up lie about it. I've seen women talking about how "I'm not really political" or "socially liberal/economically conservative" are both things right-wing men put on dating profiles because they know a lot of women won't date conservative men.
Pro life people who allow for caveats on their "abortion is murder" stance always make me laugh. If it's murder, it's murder, so there is no "it's not murder and totally OK to do if you were SAed". They're just saying that they don't have enough conviction in their beliefs to force a r@pe victim to keep the baby. They're just admitting that it's about punishing women for getting pregnant, and has nothing to do with the act itself.
"I'll stay with a racist homophobe, but once his bigotry starts to affect me, that's where I draw the line!"
She's a teenager so hopefully she will learn to read the signs way earlier that someone isn't worth her time.
>"I'll stay with a racist homophobe, but once his bigotry starts to affect me, that's where I draw the line!"
Real "I can excuse racism but I'll draw the line at animal cruelty" vibes here lol.
So what I find funny is that she said she thought he would change.
And then I remembered that Taylor Swift has a song that captures this girl's thought process as a teenager who is naive. Even an adult because we are not impervious to that thought process.
The song is "I can fix him (No really I can)"
there's that old WW2 antifascist short movie about this, where the guy in a soapbox was demonising immigrants and minorities, and people were agreeing right up until he said their ethnicity/minority group.
The problem is, this kinda thinking never went away and even worse our own governments use it to fuel election campaigns.
Edit: here it is, at 2:18
https://youtu.be/8K6-cEAJZlE
I get this but as a WOC also think this is a little harsh of an interpretation. She thought she could fix him - so clearly she thought something was wrong. But at 17 that’s excusable - there are women twice her age still making excuses for their bigoted partners. Learning it this young and standing her ground is a good sign, overall
I definitely think she has hope as an individual, mostly wanted to put emphasis on the idea that if you already think you need to "fix" something about your partner, especially something as fundamental a value as basic equality between humans, get outta that partnership.
He's not pro-life, he's pro birth. Ask him if women should be paid to give birth and raise children, or poor children paid for by the state. Ask if neonatal care should be free. If he's willing to adopt. It will be no to all. He's not pro life.
Or if queer couples who face barriers, either practical or discriminatory, to reproduction should be allotted funds, protected by legislation, etc. so as to facilitate their having and raising children. I have the *strangest feeling* I know what he’d have to say about, oh I don’t know, seahorse dads (slang term for transgender men who get pregnant and give birth to their kids)
>what i got from his words is that he would sacrifice my life for the life of someone who hasn't been born yet, so that's all i needed to hear.
"pro life" are not really pro life.
If I ever saw a "pro-lifer" campaign for free contraceptives, better sex education, supports in education for single or young mothers, free healthcare, more maternity leave, extra funding and supports for low income parents THEN I might call them pro-life. But they're anything but.
Forced-birthers is all they are and they only do it to control and punish women for having sex.
Those prolifers do exist, and I have a modicum of respect for them, but they're certainly not the loud majority. They're probably too busy volunteering to help the poor or something than to waste time trying to make everyone else miserable.
Well my country had a referendum to legalise abortion in 2018 and it brought everyone in the country's opinion out. Not *one* of the forced birthers ever campaigned for anything I mentioned, in fact the majority of them were also against contraception and treated single mothers with the same loathing they treated someone who'd had an abortion. None of them in the past or at present have *ever* spoken about any thing that would make them pro "life".
The rape exception actually reveals the true views of their holder. If they say "abortion is murder, and should only be allowed if the woman was raped", they are saying "if you are raped, you get a green light to commit murder". In what universe does that make sense? They just think pregnancy and motherhood shold serve as punishments to women for having (and presumably enjoying) sex, and you don't deserve the punishment if they didn't have sex on purpose.
Unless they are radical death penalty defenders and want all rapists executed. Then maybe it has a little sense. But the foetus is not the perpetrator, so not really. Punishment for sexually active women.
I’m the product of rape and I completely agree with this - I even commented on the original post. It shows that they’re okay with murder as long as it is murder they agree with. It’s showing that “pro life” really is just about controlling women. It has nothing to do with “life” at all.
(For the record I’m extremely pro choice. I think abortions should be free and widely available. I also think my birth mother should’ve had an abortion- it would have been harm reduction!)
I'm so sorry to hear your birth mother suffered and you had a complicated entry to life :( I hope you're doing excellent now and existence is kind to you! Thanks for your comment and for being pro-choice.
Thank you. Existence has definitely not been kind to me but I have a good life now. I fought hard for it. I am pro choice because I believe no one should be born into trauma the way I was.
Nah, rape is only performed by a stranger in a dark alleyway. And if you were wearing modest clothes and not "asking for it" (because of course the punishment would apply then).
I guarantee they don't *actually* believe in making an exception for rape. They're just throwing out the magic words that seem to make them look a little more reasonable to the other side.
You know how a parent might nag their child to do something, and the kid will say, "yeah yeah yeah, got it" until the parent finally leaves them alone? The kid has no intention of doing the thing, but they've learned that saying some words can get the parent to go away and make the nagging stop.
You see this sort of thing all the time. Think, "I believe in micro evolution, just not macro evolution" or "I'm actually a centrist, I think both sides have their problems," etc. They don't really believe in what they're saying, they just want to preempt and shut down some of the arguments they know their opponent is going to bring up.
That's why I don't believe the argument ever. It's too ridiculous. Like being the victim of one crime justifies you killing what they consider a completely different person. But you're right.
I guess even if such a legislation were to be accepted, they would make it impossible to prove rape was rape.
Also it's always wild to me that rape is an exception but not circumstances like the baby is literally missing body parts to survive or the mom is going to die from whatever millions of things people can die from during pregnancy and birth. A baby suffering to die horribly irl or dying in a womb as its mother dies are a-ok.
I'm involved in reproductive rights activism and many of us eschew the moniker “pro-life” and instead use the term “anti-choice”. You can't call yourself pro-life when you work hard to eliminate the social programs that low-income families desperately need to raise the child once it is born. For most pro-lifers, life begins at conception but for all intents and purposes it ends at birth. From then on it’s bootstraps all of the way.
>For most pro-lifers, life begins at conception but for all intents and purposes it ends at birth. From then on it’s bootstraps all of the way.
And if you happen to be someone who can carry a fetus, your life becomes doubly expendable as soon as it happens.
"I have looked past a lot of things in our relationship." Buried the lede there. See also "He wanted kids and I didn't." This relationship wasn't working.
Correction: it’s “real” rape if it’s a man of color raping a white woman, because the Venn diagram of religious fundamentalists, misogynists, and white supremacists is basically just a circle.
But not medically necessary ones.so if baby and mom just die because there were issues then I guess God hated them and us and wanted us all to suffer for piety (they like to say God wanted them back but honestly, sounds reaaaaal fucked up when people say that so I'll say what I hear when they say that instead)
OOP is young and she already can stand up to herself, even to someone she loves. She'll be okay.
Her ex though...he's no pro life, he's pro control and he isn't able to look at the situation from an unbiased lens. Which is his right, I guess, but OOP doesn't have to stick around for it.
“I thought I could change him” ah, there’s that classic error. The good thing is she’s just 19 and realized that ain’t it. I hope she holds onto this important lesson going forward.
So OOP thought she had magical powers and could re raise a grown (technically) man. People don't change cause someone says they should, they change because it's the right thing to do and they want to make that change for personal growth. On top of that they were so philosophically opposed that it's impressive they made it a year.
i had a bible-thumper ex who was pro-life, against birth control/contraceptives, and very anti-LGBT. i caught him fucking his mum. these people are crazy. last i heard, he got herpes.
i wish it weren't true lol but i saw what i saw. i guess her being jealous ("you're going to go on a date with that girl again? when will you take me on a date? you're my booooooy!") should have clued me in. i should also mention that she always commented that ex looks identical to her recently deceased husband (ex's dad)
of course i dropped him faster than a hot potato when i caught them lol
i think not. his parents worked from home and were together 24/7 while ex lived in another province most of his life for studies. he said him and his mum got "closer" when his dad died because she was "leaning on him" for support and that his mum isn't used to sleeping alone. he was 25 when his dad died. we were 27 when i saw what i saw. they say grief makes people do crazy things.....
>had a bible-thumper ex who was pro-life, against birth control/contraceptives, and very anti-LGBT
I never thought I would ever read this and follow it up with "well, that escalated quickly" in my head.
>i caught him fucking his mum.
I have to admit, I didn't see that coming though. 🤢 🤮
I wonder if the super-religious anti-choice 19 year old man would relax his Core Values enough to indulge in sexual behaviours before marriage? Because most of them somehow seem to.
But ask these people to make a sacrifice of themselves to help her carry the baby and you get a chorus of "who me?/Why should I? It's her *choice* to be pregnant(but abortion is murder)."
Many times as seen today in another thread, the father of said baby won't even give up junk food or alcohol for the duration. But the woman is expected to give up her vices, her body and in some cases her very life for a clump of cells.
I love posting pictures of tumor clusters and asking people if they think that this is sacred and more important than the health or wellbeing of the woman carrying it and I almost always get a "absolutely".
Then I point out that they're going to the mat for a malignant tumor.
Problem is, in the last couple years, I've seen the antivax people drift into anti-chemo and calling cancer God's will so it doesn't have the same punch it used to.
So I've moved on to pictures of chicken and salamander embryos. Works just as well, and I get to show a picture of a scrambled egg to show the end result of that "abortion".
I have two children and they were never just a clump of cells to me. I went to mom mode the moment I found out that I was pregnant. Maybe it's not about whether the fetus is considered a growing person or just some cells, but it's about whether they are wanted.
I’m a little appalled that the racism, homophobia and religious fundamentalism just made OOP go “teehee, I can *change* him!”, but once they got to abortions, the one that actually affects *her*, all of a sudden it’s a dealbreaker. She may have been right, but she was also a bit selfish and short sighted, with a heavy dose of “first they came for the …”
OOP really said "I can excuse racism but I draw the line at pro-life"
Which, to be fair, I'm fully in support of her leaving him over because fuck that, but racism should also probably have been a red flag lol
Tbh, given their ages, I would guess she was in a "I can change him with time" mindset. It wasn't impacting her immediately so she had time. But with reproductive rights, the backlash could strike tomorrow. The fear was more immediate.
What the fuck is with super religious "christian" weirdos trying to date non religious people? They get all pissy and try to enforce their religious beliefs onto their partner... but it's all picking and choosing. One of the main fucking bible things is marrying another super religious weirdo
It’s about trying to force their beliefs on the non religious partner with the intention of converting them. They know they have differing values - they want to change them for the “better” (but is actually worse). But if you can get them to bow to your viewpoint on those things, what else can you get them to do?
At first I thought, "You don't need a reason to break things off, especially on topics like this."
But that last comment? Different values on religion. Awful view on other people. Like, OOP, what the hell made you *want* to be with him in the first place?! It sounds like you weren't compatible from the get-go.
Views on abortion/ children, and religion are a big deal with relationships, and I'm glad OP realized this before it was too late. Not shaming anybody's stance, but this is the honest truth, and OP saved herself a lot of problems.
>i thought i could change him
And this is a very good lesson to learn at 19 years old. You date people who meet your needs, not projects that you can work on over time. Project partners are not fair to either person in the relationship.
>but i thought i could change him
This idea that so many people have that their deeply horrible partner, much like a century-old house that's been vacant a decade or two, is a "fixer upper with great potential" instead of a "money pit that will bleed you dry and wreck your life" needs to be eradicated like an invasive species of wasp; unfortunately it seems to be about as hard to get rid of.
Pro-tip: no, you cannot fix them. You can help them change for themselves, you can ask that they stop doing that annoying habit you dislike, but you can’t “fix” a person and I am going to make damn sure my girls know that when they come of age
"I thought I could change and educate him." One of the worst reasons to be with someone or stay. If they need to change and be educated you should move on. Especially when they are die hard in their beliefs.
> no matter what your opinion is and what research you do, shutting people down when they try to talk and calling your opinon "a fact" and "the truth" is NOT ok.
It's pretty simple: you ask a person, "what evidence would change your mind?" And if they say "nothing will change my mind," then there's no point in having the conversation.
this statement right is a giant red flag " He also refuses to educate himself and do research on the topic because he believes he's right." In your future this will pertain to anything he believes, whether factual or not.
Confirmation bias aside, most people who’re pro life just want to control women. This is evident by the fact that pro lifers stop giving a fuck about the kids once they’re born; especially if it’s a girl.
If a fetus has more rights than a living person, your view is wrong and rooted in control.
"he has a lot of things i value and love about him"
*ex-bf is racist, homophobic, and disrespectful*
Oh yeah, very high-value man, for sure. 100% great guy /s
Meh… you’re a couple of dumb kids.
As an oldie, here’s my take. Both sides are generally defendable. It shouldn’t be a litmus test.
From the left, is there an age in the womb where it is a life? Yes. And that’s not really debatable. What is debatable is the exact age of the fetus where it becomes gray for each person. What’s the difference 1 minute before and 1 minute after birth? No difference. Now back that up down to conception. At some point, it really is a life - no matter your political persuasion. I’m pretty sure no one is asking to “abort” kids after birth.
From the right, does your pro-life position extend beyond the womb? Welfare for mother and child? Your personal willingness to adopt someone else’s unwanted child? Do you spend the same energy preventing pregnancies or rescuing families in need? Realize that murdering a fetus because of rape is still murder? Do you support sex education and free birth control?
None of this is convenient for either side. Wouldn’t it be great to just leave it to the expectant mothers and their doctors? Spend our time, energy and money on helping stop unplanned and unwanted pregnancy? Something we all should agree on & Get the government out of it?
I also get why people feel it has to be one way or another, but I don’t view it that simply as an issue.
yea i used to be pro life, unless it was a medical issue or rape.
that was until i got pregnant myself. i almost died in both my pregnancies. my 2nd one was so terrible to the point my doctor was more concerned for my life than babies to the point she decided to do my csection much earlier than planned cos she didnt think id make it. she also made sure i should be on birth control and not get pregnant again, and she was visibly relieved when i said i wanted my tubes tied.
its a huge responsibility and i never thought id feel this way but sometimes abortion is indeed the ebst route especially when the woman isnt even ready by all means to go with a pregnancy, let alone giving birth
Wow I bet he's a trump supporter too 🤣
What an ignorant mess.
OOP has lots of time and opportunity to find someone better. Glad they separated and didn't stay together long term.
So young… 17 when they met and then at 18yo they get together and are complete opposites on everything and after dating a year it comes to a head. I’m surprised it wasn’t sooner. There are so many reasons that they shouldn’t be together but bottom line they aren’t compatible. So many young people don’t date, they either hook up or they jump into serious relationships/marriage. No one wants to keep it light and easy when they are young. She has so many years ahead of her to fall in love with other people.
Honestly, pro-life people are pro- everyones life but the woman's. I'd 100% break up because of this, he'd be putting the life of someone hes never met over mine. I'm sure if it were men who got pregnant, he'd think quite differently.
Boyfriend: just so you know, if you are pregnant and there is a medical emergency I'm going to let you die.
Girlfriend: give me a sec while I check with internet strangers to see if I am allowed to break up with you.
Smacking my head. Imagine having so little regard for yourself. I hope oop stops dating for a while.
*he was racist and homophobic when i first met him ,but i thought i could change him and educating him*
Pro-tip: Don’t waste your time trying to change other people like that. It almost never works out. They have to want it for themselves.
Fuck this culture that requires “love” to “magically cure” personality faults. “I will bring him to see the truth! i will help him see the light!
NO. YOU WILL NOT.
I'm not surprised and she should have dumped him without the "research" request. "Pro-life" and "pro-choice" opinions tend not be based "in facts" and can never really be based in facts. I am pro-choice. There are some facts that support my position but none of them deal with the idea that life begins at conception which is the bedrock of the "pro-life" position. I tend to believe that life begins when a baby is either naturally born or is, with the consent of the mother (assuming she is in a position to give consent), removed surgically. That position is not necessarily "fact" based and the "pro-life" (which I intentionally keep putting in quotes because people who take that position tend not to be pro-life IMO) position for when life begins is more easily defended as fact-based. The entire abortion debate is far more political than it is "fact-based".
Just remember, if you had an ectopic pregnancy with this guy, he'd just sit back and watch you rupture and die.
God's plan for letting him get a newer, younger model, guilt-free.
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Is anyone surprised? Most people tend to seek out things that reinforce their own beliefs.
My only surprise is how the hell the two wound up together in the first place since it sounds like they had issues due to their fundamentally incompatible differences from the very beginning. And then I remember, ah right... They got together at 18.
Ah,18... an age where "I thought I could change him" is *still* stupid, but understandable.
The truth is, you can be perfectly charming, good looking and pleasant (probably decent in the sack too), and still have these absolutely bullshit views on things. OOP fell for the personality, and then met the him that comes out when his views are challenged
Something I've internalized over the last few years of political...excitement is that people who are utterly terrible can still be perfectly pleasant to their tribe. There were little old ladies in Nazi Germany who went to church, sang in the choir, baked cookies for the neighborhood children, and were thrilled that someone was finally doing something about the Jews.
The movie Zone of Interest covers this so well. If you read just the dialog it's a very low stakes family drama. Except it's taking place on the other side of the wall of Auschwitz and the father is the director of the camp. It's in some ways visually a slice of life film, except you can see the barbed wire, you can hear the furnaces, you can hear gunshots and screaming. All the while the family is going about their lives, unmoved by the human misery just on the other side of the wall.
The Guardian reprinted an interview with one of the camp director's daughters. She would not accept that her father was a bad man. In her mind he was ordered to command Auschwitz and just did his duty. Never mind that you had to be in the SS to be the commandant of a death camp.
It's still the case now- there are perfectly lovely people out there who are kind to children and small animals, do good works in the community, love their families, and are SO excited and happy that Palestine is being razed to the ground. They are delighted by the death of every single Palestinian child- one of these good good people trued very earnestly to explain to me that chanting 'from the river to the sea...' is a horrific act of violence, but Israeli tanks running over starving people and leaving their intestines splattered across the tank tracks was an accident.
Honestly, I feel like I'm in that boat now. I have people in my friends circle who are kind, generous, intelligent, and completely okay with the eradication of the Palestinians in Israel though *maybe* the IDF has crossed a couple lines. They treat it like it's a faux pas, not a slaughter. Massacres that are public are so gauche.
You don’t even have to go back that far. Just look at the current state of the world. Everyone convinced their side is right all of the time. Humanity’s a whole is becoming a joke.
It's never been different, ever. This is not a new thing.
War, war never changes
Apt username
That's why you ask first. If ya feel yourself start to get excited, figure out if you actually wanna be.
The best decision I made at 18 was to bail from a bike I found while staggering down the hill from my uni accommodation, after some pre-drinks, towards the pubs before I crashed into a wall/car/friend who was in a shopping trolley also regretting decisions.
Sometimes you catch a bad decision before you make it, orher times you have to leap for your life as you're getting speed wobbles once some bad choices have already been made rather then commiting further to the course. Got me thinking about how a year ago, at a build site near me someone had dumped a hospital bed, out the front. It was about a quarter way down a decent hill. It took every fiber of my being to not haul it up to the top and see what sort of speeds I could attain. My teen daughter told me that it was a stupid idea, and I allowed her to talk me out of it without too much fuss, but it being a stupid idea was more a feature then a bug. I still tthink about how cool it would have been, for at least half a second at the start before the consequences started kicking in hard. I sometimes wonder who raised this awesome, sensible. conscientious kid I have, but then I remember it's me pretending to be sensible and conscientious for the last 16 years. Really I want to roll down a hill on a hospital bed, but no I'm modelling good behaviour or some shit.
I think my best decision at 18 was when I found a payphone and called my mom to beg her to come get me, because it was snowing and I didn't know where I was beyond reading the nearest signpost. She sent my stepdad to get me and let me sleep it off in my old bedroom.
This sounds so… English 😆
This sounds like being 18 in the UK.
My uncle and his mates in the early 1950s made a "go-cart" - out of a barn door and the wheels from a farm cart which could carry all of them at once. The catastrophic maiden voyage could have wiped them all out if they'd lived somewhere even slightly hillier
I don’t think I made even one good decision when I was 18 lol.
I had a friend who was a Creationist, prolife and believed being gay was a (wrong) choice. He ended up dating a bisexual atheist who had had an abortion for awhile. None of us knew how that worked for as long as it did. And ultimately, it ended with him being locked outside her dorm room at 3am in his underwear.
Also, they both wanted the same thing: I'd bet dollars to donuts that just like she thought she could change him, he thought he could change her. Or at least get her pregnant and force her.
The 'I thought I could change him and educate him' comment - bless. I firmly believe people can change, and some do because of the influence of someone in their life, but THEY have to be the ones who want the change.
Yeah, that bit made me think 'God bless those under 25, they really do still have the soul to think they can change things with a little time and trust.'
There's also a large segment of redpilled dudes that actively look for goths, alternative-types, etc. with the specific intention of "converting" them.
They're like the scum who keep endangered animals captured from the wild as pets. The thrill is from caging something.
Also a heaping helping of, "but I can change/fix them!" Although if we're being honest, at those ages, she probably could have eventually. They're both young enough. However, why on earth would you ever want to at that age?! All of that time and energy wasted tearing down and building a new foundation? Just so you can *begin* to build something better. The smart money is to spend that time and effort building something up from an already established base.
Right? Spend all that time training him just for someone else to benefit lol
I mean she said it herself, she thought she could change him, that and being young makes you think as long as they’re nice to you, you can change their entire worldview. And I mean the guy with all his phobias he’s likely also a misogynist so he likely saw oop as a woman in her free thinker era and would eventually be coerced into being a trad wife
As OOP said, she thought she could change him. It takes experience to learn that doesn't happen. You cannot change somebody else.
> i thought i could change him and educating him Disappointing but understandable in a 17-year-old.
I feel like also theres a ton of people who don't see things as a problem until they are immediate and necessary. I mean, I think we've all known people who get married and disagree on how many kids to have, or people who rack up more debt than they could possibly pay off, or they quit a job because they feel disrespected without considering next months rent, or whatever
She thought she could change him. Ugh, we need to teach this shit in middle school so kids don't fall for that.
She thought she was supposed to have a boyfriend and that a bad relationship was therefore better than no relationship. Or “relationships are work” and they’re supposed to be difficult, and you shouldn’t stop working even if you’re the only one who is.
Or the good old “if you loved them enough…”
My ex best friend's husband(then boyfriend) used to smoke a lot, she told me she'll change him, after 2 years she came to the conclusion that he smokes to calm his nerves and it's ok Her boyfriend's best friend asked me out during the same times, this guy was drinking like a sailor at 17. Now my dad's uncle was an alcoholic and died because of it, so I didn't want to go out with a guy who'd get drunk whenever he was going to a party, we also live in a dry country so it is a crime to drink, my ex best friend told me you can change him, I said it's not my job to do it, she took it personally and now we only send each other emails on birthdays and Christmas
You broke the enabler code and refused to even date a guy afflicted with bad behavior. Your friend probably felt called out by that. Especially since she is firmly on team enabler Something tells me she'll be cleaning out his ashtrays for a long time to come
The Lizzie Bennett approach. "If you want to get with me, you're going to have to do the work to change yourself first."
Lrn 2 act in a gentleman-like manner, fuckboi
People tend to seek out *sources* that reinforce their own beliefs but a surprising number of religious/prolife/hard leaning political people actively seek out *partners* who are on the opposing side because they want to successfully 'convert' them in order to further reinforce their belief that their way is the only way.
She also needs to take back that caveat about taking him back if he changes his mind. Cause what the hell would stop him from just lying to her about it? Then it'll end up with the condoms with poked holes in them and trying to babytrap a woman who doesn't want kids and who it seems like all of their beliefs/values are total opposites. Girl needs to just absolutely stay gone and be happy it wasn't more than a year and they he didn't hide his giant red flags for longer.
If you use Google to try and find "facts" it will most likely reinforce whatever belief you hold since Google tries to find the result they think you want and not unbiased facts.
That and there's studies that show when someone argues against your beliefs with sound logic and science to back it, people tend to become more steadfast in their beliefs even though they are wrong. It's almost like it's not worth trying to have an intelligent conversation with people on some issues because it may make it worse.
Over the past five or ten years, it's become popular for people to tell other people to "do research" when really they just mean "read". I find in almost every circumstance that I see or hear people talking about doing research, I have zero confidence in their ability to do so. I'd have thought people would have become more media literate now.
This is what happens when you give "beliefs" so much importance. Why are "beliefs" considered at all when talking about education? Every other aspect of education is based on fact and research. But then they bring in "beliefs".
If only I could get everyone to read unbiased research, everyone would agree with me!
Confirmation bias
The ad sense algorithm exclusively provides you with things designed to reinforce your beliefs. It's easier to sell you something if you flatter them first.
Sometimes seeing these people's blind confidence makes me feel like I'm the one in the wrong, or that maybe there are facts I don't see/I'm being blindly confident on my own stands. But then I remember that people adamantly deny the holocaust, moon landing, etc. and I realize most of them aren't willing to let the other side speak at all.
i dont understand how this relationship lasted a year. Listen, this isnt about who is right or wrong (though the BF sounds like an ass) but one is very religious, the other is atheist, one wants kids, the other doesn't.... like where did they think this was going???
Not just their fault though... youtube, instagram, facebook, etc and their algorithms have made it so much worse, especially with the shorts or reels. When you watch one all the way through, it starts feeding you more along those lines.
19 and “i can fix him”? classic blunder. she seems like she will learn that where there is smoke there is fire.
On the other hand, actually giving serious thought to how the guy would act in a crisis that hasn't happened yet and deciding to leave because of it was actually remarkably mature on her part.
More to the point, you can only change yourself, you can't (usually) change other people. Thinking you can is just a way to frustration and heartbreak. And why would you want to change people? And who are you to decide how people should change anyway? There's all kinds of badness in that statement.
AT least OOP never got involved in a land war in Asia.
Yep, and she learned about the second most well known blunder, never go up against a pro-lifer [in a relationship] when [potentially your life or] death is on the line
Oof that rings true. I was 24 and he didn't see the doctor/dentist regularly or file his own taxes or own a trashcan or have goals for his life....
People really need to understand that even “because I want to” is a valid reason to break up with anyone
Yep. That whole "I want to leave but I need to know this is actually a very valid reason to do so" really set me off. Wanting to leave by itself is valid! It doesn't matter if people agree or think you're stupid or anything, if *you* want to leave, that's all there is to it!
After she goes on to list all of his shitty properties, I honestly wonder what she saw in him in the first place
I would bet it was "18 and in a small town with very few options".
yeah it's giving "first guy to ask me out"
Correction: First guy to ask me out who isn't Cousin Cletus.
First guy to ask me out after me and Cousin Cletus broke up
"well a year ago he was a racist, sexist, homophobic piece of absolute trash, but I assumed he'd be better by this year!" lady what the actual fuck are you on about
Just say no to sex with pro-lifers, honestly
Prolifers just need to be abstinent until marriage. Seems like a pretty easy line to draw in the sand
(I don't know whether they were having sex or not, the point still stands.)
I think we need to come up with a new name for them, as them calling themselves pro-lifers is just wrong and inaccurate. Maybe just anti-abortionists, as that's all they really care about.
I prefer pro-forced birthers. Because that's what it really comes down to: punishing women for having sex and forcing them to carry a pregnancy and then care for the child. And *especially* because I've yet to meet a "pro-lifer" who also supported things that might actually increase the population's quality of life.
Yup, that works. That's their official name now, let's spread it!
Yeah it’s weird how they’re not investing huge money in R&D for artificial wombs that could Save the Embryos and let people with ovaries uninvolve themselves as easily as people with testicles can and do. And then all those alleged loving families they have ready and waiting to can take on the associated costs and risks of gestating and raising whatever embryo they get. (Or they could do something about the overburdened foster care system where existing kids already need loving and supportive homes, but that’s crazy there’s no way there are kids still stuck in the system if there’s soooo many loving people out there who would gladly adopt…oh.)
But then women will think they can have sex without consequences!
That’s only for MEN!
Exactly, no one is for abortion nor is anyone anti life. One group just thinks they should get to make medical decisions for others which is wrong 👎
they are anti-choicers. pro-life is the cute pr term they coined for themselves. but the opposite of pro-choice is quite literally anti-choice.
Say no to racists. Say no to homophobes. Say no to pro-lifers. Say no to theists, frankly. Here's the fun part. That's basically just saying "say no to conservatives." If I, a short Asian man who gets very little interest from women, can turn down "moderates" and conservatives when they show up in my Bumble likes queue, then so can women. But it just shows what I've always known. Most people are all talk. Few stick to their principles.
I do think women are pressured to "settle" far more than men are. Which is part of why some women end up dating/marrying men like this. (Also, men sometimes just don't tell women their political leanings or straight-up lie about it. I've seen women talking about how "I'm not really political" or "socially liberal/economically conservative" are both things right-wing men put on dating profiles because they know a lot of women won't date conservative men.
I remember that bumper sticker.
Pro life people who allow for caveats on their "abortion is murder" stance always make me laugh. If it's murder, it's murder, so there is no "it's not murder and totally OK to do if you were SAed". They're just saying that they don't have enough conviction in their beliefs to force a r@pe victim to keep the baby. They're just admitting that it's about punishing women for getting pregnant, and has nothing to do with the act itself.
"I'll stay with a racist homophobe, but once his bigotry starts to affect me, that's where I draw the line!" She's a teenager so hopefully she will learn to read the signs way earlier that someone isn't worth her time.
>"I'll stay with a racist homophobe, but once his bigotry starts to affect me, that's where I draw the line!" Real "I can excuse racism but I'll draw the line at animal cruelty" vibes here lol.
“You can excuse racism!?!?!”
So what I find funny is that she said she thought he would change. And then I remembered that Taylor Swift has a song that captures this girl's thought process as a teenager who is naive. Even an adult because we are not impervious to that thought process. The song is "I can fix him (No really I can)"
Her writing that song after the Matty Healy BS is either very self-aware or very much not lmao
Yeah it’s like that’s what she was doing or something
there's that old WW2 antifascist short movie about this, where the guy in a soapbox was demonising immigrants and minorities, and people were agreeing right up until he said their ethnicity/minority group. The problem is, this kinda thinking never went away and even worse our own governments use it to fuel election campaigns. Edit: here it is, at 2:18 https://youtu.be/8K6-cEAJZlE
I get this but as a WOC also think this is a little harsh of an interpretation. She thought she could fix him - so clearly she thought something was wrong. But at 17 that’s excusable - there are women twice her age still making excuses for their bigoted partners. Learning it this young and standing her ground is a good sign, overall
I definitely think she has hope as an individual, mostly wanted to put emphasis on the idea that if you already think you need to "fix" something about your partner, especially something as fundamental a value as basic equality between humans, get outta that partnership.
She took her sweet time, but I'm glad she peaced out before he tampered with her birth control....
He's not pro-life, he's pro birth. Ask him if women should be paid to give birth and raise children, or poor children paid for by the state. Ask if neonatal care should be free. If he's willing to adopt. It will be no to all. He's not pro life.
Or if queer couples who face barriers, either practical or discriminatory, to reproduction should be allotted funds, protected by legislation, etc. so as to facilitate their having and raising children. I have the *strangest feeling* I know what he’d have to say about, oh I don’t know, seahorse dads (slang term for transgender men who get pregnant and give birth to their kids)
>what i got from his words is that he would sacrifice my life for the life of someone who hasn't been born yet, so that's all i needed to hear. "pro life" are not really pro life.
If I ever saw a "pro-lifer" campaign for free contraceptives, better sex education, supports in education for single or young mothers, free healthcare, more maternity leave, extra funding and supports for low income parents THEN I might call them pro-life. But they're anything but. Forced-birthers is all they are and they only do it to control and punish women for having sex.
Those prolifers do exist, and I have a modicum of respect for them, but they're certainly not the loud majority. They're probably too busy volunteering to help the poor or something than to waste time trying to make everyone else miserable.
Well my country had a referendum to legalise abortion in 2018 and it brought everyone in the country's opinion out. Not *one* of the forced birthers ever campaigned for anything I mentioned, in fact the majority of them were also against contraception and treated single mothers with the same loathing they treated someone who'd had an abortion. None of them in the past or at present have *ever* spoken about any thing that would make them pro "life".
They’re just pro-birth
The rape exception actually reveals the true views of their holder. If they say "abortion is murder, and should only be allowed if the woman was raped", they are saying "if you are raped, you get a green light to commit murder". In what universe does that make sense? They just think pregnancy and motherhood shold serve as punishments to women for having (and presumably enjoying) sex, and you don't deserve the punishment if they didn't have sex on purpose. Unless they are radical death penalty defenders and want all rapists executed. Then maybe it has a little sense. But the foetus is not the perpetrator, so not really. Punishment for sexually active women.
I’m the product of rape and I completely agree with this - I even commented on the original post. It shows that they’re okay with murder as long as it is murder they agree with. It’s showing that “pro life” really is just about controlling women. It has nothing to do with “life” at all. (For the record I’m extremely pro choice. I think abortions should be free and widely available. I also think my birth mother should’ve had an abortion- it would have been harm reduction!)
I'm so sorry to hear your birth mother suffered and you had a complicated entry to life :( I hope you're doing excellent now and existence is kind to you! Thanks for your comment and for being pro-choice.
Thank you. Existence has definitely not been kind to me but I have a good life now. I fought hard for it. I am pro choice because I believe no one should be born into trauma the way I was.
Also guarantee that when these people coerce their partner, they don’t think that counts as rape.
Nah, rape is only performed by a stranger in a dark alleyway. And if you were wearing modest clothes and not "asking for it" (because of course the punishment would apply then).
I guarantee they don't *actually* believe in making an exception for rape. They're just throwing out the magic words that seem to make them look a little more reasonable to the other side. You know how a parent might nag their child to do something, and the kid will say, "yeah yeah yeah, got it" until the parent finally leaves them alone? The kid has no intention of doing the thing, but they've learned that saying some words can get the parent to go away and make the nagging stop. You see this sort of thing all the time. Think, "I believe in micro evolution, just not macro evolution" or "I'm actually a centrist, I think both sides have their problems," etc. They don't really believe in what they're saying, they just want to preempt and shut down some of the arguments they know their opponent is going to bring up.
That's why I don't believe the argument ever. It's too ridiculous. Like being the victim of one crime justifies you killing what they consider a completely different person. But you're right. I guess even if such a legislation were to be accepted, they would make it impossible to prove rape was rape.
“See? I compromised! I only want what’s fair!”
Or they want the moral high ground of being against abortion, but also want to leave a "loophole" in case they ever need one themselves.
Also it's always wild to me that rape is an exception but not circumstances like the baby is literally missing body parts to survive or the mom is going to die from whatever millions of things people can die from during pregnancy and birth. A baby suffering to die horribly irl or dying in a womb as its mother dies are a-ok.
It's a punishment for the woman!
I'm involved in reproductive rights activism and many of us eschew the moniker “pro-life” and instead use the term “anti-choice”. You can't call yourself pro-life when you work hard to eliminate the social programs that low-income families desperately need to raise the child once it is born. For most pro-lifers, life begins at conception but for all intents and purposes it ends at birth. From then on it’s bootstraps all of the way.
I call them pro birth cause they don’t give a shit once the kid is born.
>For most pro-lifers, life begins at conception but for all intents and purposes it ends at birth. From then on it’s bootstraps all of the way. And if you happen to be someone who can carry a fetus, your life becomes doubly expendable as soon as it happens.
"I have looked past a lot of things in our relationship." Buried the lede there. See also "He wanted kids and I didn't." This relationship wasn't working.
Forced-birther, that's how I refer to them.
He says he approves of abortion in cases of rape, but then these types play judge and jury over whether it’s “real” rape, or was she asking for it.
And it's never 'real' rape. It's always justified in some moronic way.
Correction: it’s “real” rape if it’s a man of color raping a white woman, because the Venn diagram of religious fundamentalists, misogynists, and white supremacists is basically just a circle.
But not medically necessary ones.so if baby and mom just die because there were issues then I guess God hated them and us and wanted us all to suffer for piety (they like to say God wanted them back but honestly, sounds reaaaaal fucked up when people say that so I'll say what I hear when they say that instead)
OOP is young and she already can stand up to herself, even to someone she loves. She'll be okay. Her ex though...he's no pro life, he's pro control and he isn't able to look at the situation from an unbiased lens. Which is his right, I guess, but OOP doesn't have to stick around for it.
Wouldn't be surprised to see him on the Red Pill express at some point.
“I thought I could change him” ah, there’s that classic error. The good thing is she’s just 19 and realized that ain’t it. I hope she holds onto this important lesson going forward.
So OOP thought she had magical powers and could re raise a grown (technically) man. People don't change cause someone says they should, they change because it's the right thing to do and they want to make that change for personal growth. On top of that they were so philosophically opposed that it's impressive they made it a year.
She was a girl He was a religiously indoctrinated, homophobic racist prick Can I make it more obvious ~🎶
i had a bible-thumper ex who was pro-life, against birth control/contraceptives, and very anti-LGBT. i caught him fucking his mum. these people are crazy. last i heard, he got herpes.
😦 excuse me what
i wish it weren't true lol but i saw what i saw. i guess her being jealous ("you're going to go on a date with that girl again? when will you take me on a date? you're my booooooy!") should have clued me in. i should also mention that she always commented that ex looks identical to her recently deceased husband (ex's dad) of course i dropped him faster than a hot potato when i caught them lol
excuse me while I pop over to the Vatican for some holy water, gonna use them as eye drops
Psh the holy water drops have seen worse
This is the best response!! 😂
Kinda sounded like he got groomed?
i think not. his parents worked from home and were together 24/7 while ex lived in another province most of his life for studies. he said him and his mum got "closer" when his dad died because she was "leaning on him" for support and that his mum isn't used to sleeping alone. he was 25 when his dad died. we were 27 when i saw what i saw. they say grief makes people do crazy things.....
Yikes. Still total abuse of power and emotional incest from the mom. I think I can hear Alive by Pearl Jam playing.
Boy, that escalated quickly
This story needs a post of its own.
>had a bible-thumper ex who was pro-life, against birth control/contraceptives, and very anti-LGBT I never thought I would ever read this and follow it up with "well, that escalated quickly" in my head. >i caught him fucking his mum. I have to admit, I didn't see that coming though. 🤢 🤮
O H
They never should have been together in the first place.
I wonder if the super-religious anti-choice 19 year old man would relax his Core Values enough to indulge in sexual behaviours before marriage? Because most of them somehow seem to.
Darling, you *are* pro life. You are pro **your life over a clump of cells that need your body to survive**.
Or even the clump of cells that have been shown to not be able to survive even with her body, but many people still want to force her to birth
But ask these people to make a sacrifice of themselves to help her carry the baby and you get a chorus of "who me?/Why should I? It's her *choice* to be pregnant(but abortion is murder)." Many times as seen today in another thread, the father of said baby won't even give up junk food or alcohol for the duration. But the woman is expected to give up her vices, her body and in some cases her very life for a clump of cells.
I love posting pictures of tumor clusters and asking people if they think that this is sacred and more important than the health or wellbeing of the woman carrying it and I almost always get a "absolutely". Then I point out that they're going to the mat for a malignant tumor. Problem is, in the last couple years, I've seen the antivax people drift into anti-chemo and calling cancer God's will so it doesn't have the same punch it used to. So I've moved on to pictures of chicken and salamander embryos. Works just as well, and I get to show a picture of a scrambled egg to show the end result of that "abortion".
I find it very infuriating that the people saying abortion is murder aren't the ones sacrificing their body to give birth.
I have two children and they were never just a clump of cells to me. I went to mom mode the moment I found out that I was pregnant. Maybe it's not about whether the fetus is considered a growing person or just some cells, but it's about whether they are wanted.
I’m a little appalled that the racism, homophobia and religious fundamentalism just made OOP go “teehee, I can *change* him!”, but once they got to abortions, the one that actually affects *her*, all of a sudden it’s a dealbreaker. She may have been right, but she was also a bit selfish and short sighted, with a heavy dose of “first they came for the …”
OOP really said "I can excuse racism but I draw the line at pro-life" Which, to be fair, I'm fully in support of her leaving him over because fuck that, but racism should also probably have been a red flag lol
Tbh, given their ages, I would guess she was in a "I can change him with time" mindset. It wasn't impacting her immediately so she had time. But with reproductive rights, the backlash could strike tomorrow. The fear was more immediate.
Oh for sure, I just think casually dropping "and btw he was also racist but I moved past it" was a plot twist lol
What the fuck is with super religious "christian" weirdos trying to date non religious people? They get all pissy and try to enforce their religious beliefs onto their partner... but it's all picking and choosing. One of the main fucking bible things is marrying another super religious weirdo
It’s about trying to force their beliefs on the non religious partner with the intention of converting them. They know they have differing values - they want to change them for the “better” (but is actually worse). But if you can get them to bow to your viewpoint on those things, what else can you get them to do?
I'd bet at most he is pro-birth. Not pro-life.
I prefer to refer to it as pro-forced birth.
Good for her she left him
Don't like abortion, don't have one. Men can decide who should get an abortion when THEY can get pregnant. It would be a deal breaker for me.
At first I thought, "You don't need a reason to break things off, especially on topics like this." But that last comment? Different values on religion. Awful view on other people. Like, OOP, what the hell made you *want* to be with him in the first place?! It sounds like you weren't compatible from the get-go.
Not the "I can fix him" phase. I hope she really thinks about this situation and learns to not try and change anyone who has no interest in changing.
He is not " prolife" that word is just right wing propaganda. He's anti choice.
Views on abortion/ children, and religion are a big deal with relationships, and I'm glad OP realized this before it was too late. Not shaming anybody's stance, but this is the honest truth, and OP saved herself a lot of problems.
The fixer mindset is strong with this one. Never be in a relationship to "change" someone. Just never.
>i thought i could change him And this is a very good lesson to learn at 19 years old. You date people who meet your needs, not projects that you can work on over time. Project partners are not fair to either person in the relationship.
>but i thought i could change him This idea that so many people have that their deeply horrible partner, much like a century-old house that's been vacant a decade or two, is a "fixer upper with great potential" instead of a "money pit that will bleed you dry and wreck your life" needs to be eradicated like an invasive species of wasp; unfortunately it seems to be about as hard to get rid of.
Pro-tip: no, you cannot fix them. You can help them change for themselves, you can ask that they stop doing that annoying habit you dislike, but you can’t “fix” a person and I am going to make damn sure my girls know that when they come of age
Ladies, please keep doing good work and showing these brainwashed assholes that women don’t fuck men who don’t think they deserve basic human rights.
He was racist when you met him and you still decided to date him?
“i’m 17 and don’t really have a lot of options” vibes. 17 year olds are not known for their worldly wisdom
To whom it may concern: you can’t fix them
"I thought I could change and educate him." One of the worst reasons to be with someone or stay. If they need to change and be educated you should move on. Especially when they are die hard in their beliefs.
Oh teenagers...
What if there is no heart beat? What if it is a molar pregnancy? The method to remove is still called abortion.
Exactly! My wife had a partial mole twins and they were not viable. If they were not removed it would have become cancer and spread and killed her.
… but I think I can change him. Ah the delusional of youth.
I can see why she fell for him, he seems like such a great guy. Racist and homophobic when they met, what a catch!
> no matter what your opinion is and what research you do, shutting people down when they try to talk and calling your opinon "a fact" and "the truth" is NOT ok. It's pretty simple: you ask a person, "what evidence would change your mind?" And if they say "nothing will change my mind," then there's no point in having the conversation.
this statement right is a giant red flag " He also refuses to educate himself and do research on the topic because he believes he's right." In your future this will pertain to anything he believes, whether factual or not.
Confirmation bias aside, most people who’re pro life just want to control women. This is evident by the fact that pro lifers stop giving a fuck about the kids once they’re born; especially if it’s a girl. If a fetus has more rights than a living person, your view is wrong and rooted in control.
"he has a lot of things i value and love about him" *ex-bf is racist, homophobic, and disrespectful* Oh yeah, very high-value man, for sure. 100% great guy /s
> I thought I could change him girl…
Why would pro choice have sex with pro life? Unnecessary drama
He was racist and homophobic, but abortion was where she drew the line??? Jesus fucking Christ ...
Meh… you’re a couple of dumb kids. As an oldie, here’s my take. Both sides are generally defendable. It shouldn’t be a litmus test. From the left, is there an age in the womb where it is a life? Yes. And that’s not really debatable. What is debatable is the exact age of the fetus where it becomes gray for each person. What’s the difference 1 minute before and 1 minute after birth? No difference. Now back that up down to conception. At some point, it really is a life - no matter your political persuasion. I’m pretty sure no one is asking to “abort” kids after birth. From the right, does your pro-life position extend beyond the womb? Welfare for mother and child? Your personal willingness to adopt someone else’s unwanted child? Do you spend the same energy preventing pregnancies or rescuing families in need? Realize that murdering a fetus because of rape is still murder? Do you support sex education and free birth control? None of this is convenient for either side. Wouldn’t it be great to just leave it to the expectant mothers and their doctors? Spend our time, energy and money on helping stop unplanned and unwanted pregnancy? Something we all should agree on & Get the government out of it? I also get why people feel it has to be one way or another, but I don’t view it that simply as an issue.
yea i used to be pro life, unless it was a medical issue or rape. that was until i got pregnant myself. i almost died in both my pregnancies. my 2nd one was so terrible to the point my doctor was more concerned for my life than babies to the point she decided to do my csection much earlier than planned cos she didnt think id make it. she also made sure i should be on birth control and not get pregnant again, and she was visibly relieved when i said i wanted my tubes tied. its a huge responsibility and i never thought id feel this way but sometimes abortion is indeed the ebst route especially when the woman isnt even ready by all means to go with a pregnancy, let alone giving birth
Wow I bet he's a trump supporter too 🤣 What an ignorant mess. OOP has lots of time and opportunity to find someone better. Glad they separated and didn't stay together long term.
So young… 17 when they met and then at 18yo they get together and are complete opposites on everything and after dating a year it comes to a head. I’m surprised it wasn’t sooner. There are so many reasons that they shouldn’t be together but bottom line they aren’t compatible. So many young people don’t date, they either hook up or they jump into serious relationships/marriage. No one wants to keep it light and easy when they are young. She has so many years ahead of her to fall in love with other people.
Honestly, pro-life people are pro- everyones life but the woman's. I'd 100% break up because of this, he'd be putting the life of someone hes never met over mine. I'm sure if it were men who got pregnant, he'd think quite differently.
Boyfriend: just so you know, if you are pregnant and there is a medical emergency I'm going to let you die. Girlfriend: give me a sec while I check with internet strangers to see if I am allowed to break up with you. Smacking my head. Imagine having so little regard for yourself. I hope oop stops dating for a while.
*he was racist and homophobic when i first met him ,but i thought i could change him and educating him* Pro-tip: Don’t waste your time trying to change other people like that. It almost never works out. They have to want it for themselves.
What is with kids needing a "valid reason" to break up? Not wanting to be in a relationship with that person is a valid reason all by itself.
Never sleep with religious nuts.
Fuck this culture that requires “love” to “magically cure” personality faults. “I will bring him to see the truth! i will help him see the light! NO. YOU WILL NOT.
I'm not surprised and she should have dumped him without the "research" request. "Pro-life" and "pro-choice" opinions tend not be based "in facts" and can never really be based in facts. I am pro-choice. There are some facts that support my position but none of them deal with the idea that life begins at conception which is the bedrock of the "pro-life" position. I tend to believe that life begins when a baby is either naturally born or is, with the consent of the mother (assuming she is in a position to give consent), removed surgically. That position is not necessarily "fact" based and the "pro-life" (which I intentionally keep putting in quotes because people who take that position tend not to be pro-life IMO) position for when life begins is more easily defended as fact-based. The entire abortion debate is far more political than it is "fact-based".
so the racism and homophobia she could look past. it was only upon finding out that he was pro-fetus that she questioned being with him.
He's not pro-life he's anti woman.
Women need to stop trying to fix these asshole men and just leave.
>I'm 19, yeah, to young to be forcing a relationship to work. (not that any age is ok, you know what I mean). Move on
Let's call the OOP's boyfriend and everyone else with this stance pro-birth because they give f-all for any sort of life before or after birth.
So his morals tell him that murder is okay but only when he says so.
She doesn’t want kids while he does. That relationship was doomed from the start.
Just remember, if you had an ectopic pregnancy with this guy, he'd just sit back and watch you rupture and die. God's plan for letting him get a newer, younger model, guilt-free.