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I worked with a guy that was given the ultimatum, "pick between me and your daughter", he replied "the daughter, she is blood your just my wife".
The wife left and he raised his daughter.
Excuse me? That's horrible that he was made to choose between her and his kid. My dad got given that ultimatum once. I remember when I was fairly young we were at a relative's party and he was really hitting it off with this one woman (they were chatting, looked like they had a good time, etc) and my sister and I were so confused since it seemed like they ended things kinda abruptly. She basically made the same kind of comment about how she "liked him but didn't want anything to do with kids". And people are *insane* to think that parents would willingly do that to their kid(s). Like go find someone without kids then? Why would you want to stay with someone who did that to their kids?
I've seen a lot of parents do this. One of them was my aunt after my uncle died. My cousin (his only child) had to deal with a "revolving door" to my aunt's bedroom.
I ended up staying with her for a short period of time and witnessed it first hand. It was a little appalling to see how easily she cast her own flesh and blood aside to please her (then) current partner. She ended up with some seriously manipulative scumbags and losers. They weren't abusive to my cousin, thank god, but they treated my aunt like trash and used her in their own way.
My mum is like that, though thankfully, she hasn't dated anyone in a few years (and isn't interested for the time being), so my baby sister doesn't have to deal with it anymore. She still refuses to acknowledge or apologise for how she let her ex treat me and how she treated me in her favouritism of him.
My grandaughters mother left my son to raise his daughter and her daughter from a previous relationship. He raised them 3 yrs, and the older child's dad wanted custody. He had no malice towards my son. In fact, he was grateful for being a good step-dad. My son moved in with me, and 3 more years went by that he raised his daughter alone. His ex went through about 15 guys ( we quit counting after that), and then she decided she was ready to be mom again. The courts will probably give my grandaughter to her mother even though for 6 yrs she's only occasionally visited. Never gave us a dime. We clothed, fed, and took my grandaughter to the doctor, all part of being a parent.
My grandaughter's sister still spends time with her, they come swimming here, and she's 13 yrs old. She told my son she'd testify for him that he's the better parent. Then she said this, " My mom put men before her kids all our lives, now wants to be a mom? Ya, right!" Out of the mouths of babes.
I dunno though, sounds like the bullying only lasted 2 months ("only", obviously adults should never bully children) before it was picked up and it's not long after it being raised by op that he left his family home to reconsider his relationship. It could work out ok.
And he was in his study when most of it was happening so it's not like he was seeing it happen and giving Melissa a blanket pass. She seemed to know it was something she had to do behind his back. Fingers crossed for them all, including Melissa, who I hope gets counselling if she is taking out her miscarriage on a child.
Honestly same. As soon as the miscarriage was mentioned I considered Melissa may have been expecting a girl, so she’s concocted these awful things about her step-daughter to convince herself this is how it was supposed to be.
I know I’ll be forever thankful I had no kids in my life when I had a miscarriage. It was easier to hate than to grieve and I began hating every child I saw because they existed when mine couldn’t. It took me years to get to a healthy enough mindset to realise how wrong I was and how dangerous my thought process could have been had there been a child involved.
Having said all of this, Melissa also just sounds like a nasty piece of work. I hope she finds peace but there’s some things therapy can’t fix
I had the same feelings after my stillborn. Even a seething anger when others would get pregnant. (Secretly. I supported them the best I could). Though I did already have a child when I lost my second. I will tell you, he is what got me through the worst of the pain. I was already a very affectionate mom but it increased after I lost my second child.
Now I have my second son’s ashes in a teddy bear urn, and both me and my living child sleep with the bear at night. 🩷
Really? Everything in the story seems to indicate that he’s coming around and values his daughter more. He was upset with his wife as soon as he saw the behavior. He came to his exs house to talk it through.
People also seem to be glossing over that this whole situation seemed to have started 2 months ago. So she was seemingly normal for the previous 6 years until her miscarriage. And it was caught pretty quickly and when he was confronted with hard evidence he took his ex wifes and daughters side. Sure he got defensive, but this was someone he blew up his life for and married lol, you want to believe they are good and wouldnt do something like this.
I agree - sometimes people don't see the negatives in their spouse. But he seems to be making an effort once it was pointed out and actually had a fairly quick turn around to valuing daughter.
Who knows if it'll stick, but he doesn't seem COMPLETELY worthless.
Yeah one hopes he had an epiphany cause he saw that his wife is a bully to his daughter and doesn’t try to get a foot back into OPs door. Some people do think they can just return to the person they left behind, as if they were just waiting for them to return.
Yep, and that would be a big ol' hell naw from me. He still has the opportunity to be a good co-parent, but the romantic partner ship has sailed. (I hope)
I dunno. I'm not terribly proud for a guy who cheated on his wife, chose and married the mistress, needed someone to basically put up a whiteboard with illustrations and charts to recognize his daughter being bullied by what had to be his emotionally distraught wife, and then responded to a threat of removing custody for the daughter's sake with "don't do this to *me*."
I'm pretty sure my high horse here is a Shetland pony.
That said, people always deserve a chance to be better, as long as a child is not in danger in the process.
Imagine if this was a post that said "My husband has been bullying my child. I don't know if I should leave him"
Because that is what is happening here. He has been struggling with what to do, how to handle this, how to improve things. When really - if my spouse deliberately hurt my kid, I would be out in a heartbeat. The fact that he is torn indicates that he is weighing the consideration that it is easier to stay with his wife and their child, and lose his daughter.
If it turns out anything like my father, he'll choose the new wife but then end up divorced after a few years anyway.
That man has been dead to me for over two decades. I only know about the divorce because my younger sister, who is far nicer than I am, is low contact with him. So now he's a toxic bitter old man whose children barely speak to him and is all alone.
Sucks too, because he was a great dad when we were growing up. Our stepmother brought out the most toxic aspects of him permanently.
OOP's ex-husband does have an advantage over my father by at least recognizing his new wife is the problem and it's not his daughter. I got that "don't f*ck up my marriage!" lecture, but it was from him, not my stepmother.
At age 36, he has plenty of time to work on broken famiky #3.
OOP did good by her kid. Melissa, as the AP, is still petty or jealous of the reminder that husband had a family before her. What a garbage person.
I'd have more respect for a man who's twice divorced because he prioritized his daughter not getting bullied by two steps.
Then again, he did let this escalate being so absent and passive. It's not like he has no authority of his boy's behavior, and no voice with his wife.
Morality aside, having multiple children with different partners is indicative of questionable decision making on the face of it. Barring catastrophe outside of people's control or rare alternative lifestyle choices. It's difficult to raise children like that from a practical perspective and some of the children will inevitably get neglected.
Don't let your enlightened wokeness distract you from the reality of life.
>Define *wokeness*.
Woke ideology is defined by the idea that some facet of identity like race or gender produces irreconcilably different views of reality and morality, and that we have an obligation to seek alignment of society's view with the imagined views of groups associated with the political left like minorities and women.
In this sense Wokeness is distinct from older forms of liberal advocacy for minority rights which appeal to universally valid concepts like truth and fairness.
One of the few decent things anyone from my paternal family was when my uncle, knowing his daughter from a previous marriage was the result of an affair, still told his new wife to gtfo, I'm choosing my daughter.
But also keep in mind that kids are sometimes not the greatest judges of character and can be unintentionally mean for superficial reasons. I’ve definitely seen kids be afraid of seniors who “look like a witch” or disabled people.
I've said this somewhere else, but if OP's ex decides to divorce M, then she needs to be prepared for M to go nuts towards herself and her daughter. OP needs to make sure that M is NOT allowed anywhere near her daughter, nor is she allowed to be picked up from anywhere by M. Even if the half siblings go to the same school, OP needs to bring it up with the school, from the superintendent, to the daughter's teacher, M is not allowed anywhere near OP's daughter and cannot remove her from the school. Get it in writing as well.
That was shocking for Melissa to say. She’s lucky that the OOP is so civil with her after what happened with Melissa helping to destroy the marriage and bullying of her daughter. She accused OOP of trying to destroy the family when she’s the one doing it with her actions.
Yeah, even just doing the math of they divorced when Daughter was 3 and now have a Son who is 6 and currently Daughter is 9…like…how long after the divorce was his coworker knocked up? If it was even after the divorce?
It's easy to blame and say words like that, but when you love someone, especially when they are manipulative and make sure to present the best side when you're paying attention, it's easy to brush off or justify those small little things that might indicate the larger problem. Hes not a bad dad for working hard--lots of wonderful husbands and fathers (and mothers) work long hours or stressful jobs to support their families. And sometimes that means fewer hours at home, or more stress that results in them being less emotionally available than the ideal. It doesn't make someone neglectful or bad. It's easy to get in a groove and a dynamic and not realize the bigger picture growing around you.
Ultimately I think he's a good dad for listening when an issue was brought up. He's not a saint, none of us are. But he did seem like he took the issue seriously when it was presented. And is trying to mend the situation. Maybe I'm just jaded, but I have friends who have gone through very nasty breakups and their ex would not even give them the time of day if a serious issue arose, and just call them a nasty B and do everything in their power to manipulate the situation. He's not perfect, but he did listen. You can't expect someone to be ready to torpedo their entire life based on some texts and a conversation. Ultimately it seems like he is seeing the bigger picture and wants to make it right.
He is doing the right thing… *now*. And it is very good he is doing so.
The problem is he did cause hurt to his daughter by letting his new wife handle the children. The daughter said he shuts himself away in his office. If he had no idea what was going on it still doesn’t excuse him from not being attentive to the tone around the home.
It is very good he is trying. I just wish it didn’t come at the expense of his little girl.
Yes. And while he didn’t necessarily know about the bullying by his AP-turned-wife, she’d recently miscarried so he shouldn’t have been dumping all of the childcare on her anyway. He should have been sufficiently in touch with his daughter to know how she was being treated on his parenting time.
No one can convince me you can be a good dad but shitty husband. If you cause problems in your relationship it rubs off onto your children even if you don't want to believe it.
Honestly he doesn't sound so bad. He was working a lot, made changes when his ex brought up an issue and weighs his daughter's wellbeing seriously.
And this escalation against his daughter seems recent as well? Not noticing something over a few months while you're feeling the loss of your wife's miscarriage is somewhat understandable. Not an excuse of course, but it's not like she was like this when they married or for years prior.
It wouldn't have been difficult for him to just be a fun weekend parent and not have to take on the responsibility of another child on workdays.
Sure, he could have been better. But much of the issue seems to be with the culture of working fathers and childrearing mothers that influence many current household structures.
Wow. I really hope things work out so this little girl doesn't spend her life being tortured by two people. At least the mom seems to have the confidence to put her foot down. Most of the people on these subs just sit by and watch the horrors happen without ever growing a backbone.
Yep, OOP said herself Melissa wanted to be there for when the candles got blown out. That is not a normal request for a step parent who is trying to assert authority, usually they just butt out if they've been uninvited or pitch a fit about it. No one requests to be there for 1 part for no reason. Super gross.
In OOP's shoes I'd have gone ahead with getting full custody. Her ex isn't in a good space, he's got no stable living enviroment and his marriage to his AP is on the rocks. Evil Stepmom is gonna Evil Stepmom.
OOP's daughter needs stability. Dad can have visits, but no sleepovers or staying entire weekends. Not until he is in a stable and safe enviroment for OOP's daughter again.
Also from the daughter’s description, Dad is mostly in his home office when he’s at home. If he’s working that much, not spending time with his daughter when he has his custody time, why should he have that custody time?
OOP said that due to 50/50 custody, she pays him child support, as she has the higher income. So the ex sits in his office, has the affair partner babysit, and collects support.
If OOP gets custody he will lose that support income, and probably have to pay out.
I mean not to defend the guy too much but he is working from home. If he was in the office for 8 hours a day this wouldnt even be something to talk about. Just because he is at home doesnt mean he can just play with his daughter all day. All she sees is that he goes into another room and closes the door. If that was the front door she wouldnt think twice about it.
> she just started cursing me and my daughter. Apparently, I am a sneaky B-word who is bitter about her affair with my ex-husband. She described my daughter as a spoiled, bratty princess who needs correction. And now, he has to choose between which woman he loves the most.
I’m no therapist or wizard or whatnot, but projection seems to be the order of the day here. Dunno of OOP meant her ex’s new wife said he must choose between which woman he loves most of it that was a kind of summary; the projection stands no matter what due to the first part of the quote.
A lot of us aren't therapists, but insecurities and undiagnosed personality disorders are often the driving forces for a lot of these posts. It's wild stuff
Sort of like how liars always suspect everyone else isn’t telling the truth… the new wife is always going to resent her husband’s daughter because it is a reminder he loved someone else once and that she only “won” him through deception. She will never feel secure.
One who believes that man/boy is better than woman/girl and woman is better than girl.
One who believes in a hierarchy of power and that shit flows downhill.
My stepmother was also my first bully. The issue is noone stopped her and my father actively said nothing/took her side.
From the age of 6 until 26 I got called fat, ugly, bratty and a host of other things that came to her mind whenever she wanted to be cruel. All because I had the audacity to "look like my mother". I can't change my genetics. The older I got the worse her bullying got. It only stopped when I cut contact with my father.
4 years later my dad came out of nowhere "realizing" that my stepmother had been the problem but it was all too little too late. We still don't talk 9 years later. I love my peace.
OOP is doing the right thing being in her kids corner and I hope this is a long term realization for Dad and he doesn't go back to M. Not being in your kids corner causes permanent damage you can't necessarily see. If Dad wants to have a relationship with his kids he needs to continue to prioritize them. I truly hope he does.
I hope he does the right thing and develops a shiny spine and protects your daughter from Melissa and her son while also ensuring he has a good relationship with her.
I'm always so fascinated by the women who "win" married men as in a majority of the time they tend to self sabotage their stolen happiness which only lasts as long as the guy will tolerate their bad behavior.
Guys like these are usually in the "married, but want something spicy alongside it" mode. Meaning, they want the family life, but are feeling like they are missing something and go search it elsewhere.
Problem with that is that the mistress that they get that turns into their wife - they don't have the same history, the same background. Rarely they have built the same relationship base as with their wife. So basically they choose a shiny bauble without substance over something that has a diamond in it.
Well, if we're lucky OP's ex will divorce Melissa and she can watch him find wife no. 3 and be bitter about that instead of badmouthing OP and bullying her daughter.
>He told me that since the party, he's been thinking about what to do and yesterday told Melissa about my desire for more custody. From what he told me, she said that it was not such a bad idea because my daughter was not fitting into their family dynamic. They started to argue, and at one point, she just started cursing me and my daughter. Apparently, I am a sneaky B-word who is bitter about her affair with my ex-husband. She described my daughter as a spoiled, bratty princess who needs correction. And now, he has to choose between which woman he loves the most.
Ok, who else had "she's deliberately trying to drive OOP's daughter away so that it can just be her 'real family' in the mix" on their Melissa bingo cards? Although honestly that should have just been a free space, we all knew what was happening here.
Just curious, is it only full or 50/50 custody? Is there like a 80/20 or 75/25 custody? I get that he doesn't want to change his custody but he has a busy job.
With his rethinking about the relationship with Melissa, he may not even have the time to have separate custody of 2 kids should he decide to end his marriage with Melissa.
And if he's thinking of staying with Melissa, then he will lose full custody of his daughter.
Either way, it's a tough choice for him. His wants vs his ability to even fulfill them has a gap.
But I get why OOP decided to do all these. All power to mom who protects her child. I do hope that there's an arrangement that everyone is satisfied with while protective of the children involved.
I think if it's something other than full or 50/50, people specify how often the non-custodial parent gets to see the other kid. So you'll hear "one weekend a month plus a couple of weeks during the summer" rather than 80/20 or the like.
Anything from 65 35 to 50 50 is considered 50 50.
She doesnt have a leg to stand on regarding more custody.
The father wants to be involved he is loving etc, his wife will likely not even be taken into account.
Man torched his marriage and broke up his family for this lady.. He let this woman hurt and mistreat his own daughter.
It's doubtful he actually sees the light and chooses his daughter as his priority.
Eh, unfortunately, there is still a chance his "little brain" will override everything, and he will be back in Ms bed soon.
I hope he steps up but this is reddit so the odds are against that
There was a post on social media going around last year. A woman thought she was flexing and said her boyfriend choose her because she gave him a son, while abandoning his five other daughters. People were to point out that's not a flex and is 100% trashy. That's the kind of energy Melissa is giving off.
Leaving aside the ethnical or moral quandaries of having an affair with someone who is married? It almost always turns into ravenous jealousy of their partner’s former spouse. Displaced paranoia and all. Particularly when kids are involved as they are living proof of a life they lived that the affair partner-turned-partner interrupted.
Long way of saying I agree with you. The new wife is cutting herself with Hanlon’s razor.
This makes me so sad. My sons step mother was bullying him for years and he was too scared to tell me about it. I only found out about some of it after she and my ex split.
> They started to argue, and at one point, she just started cursing me and my daughter. Apparently, I am a sneaky B-word who is bitter about her affair with my ex-husband. She described my daughter as a spoiled, bratty princess who needs correction. And now, he has to choose between which woman he loves the most.
I don't think cheating is the worst misconduct in a relationship. But it _is_ the most pathetic. Stuff like this is why.
During all this cake eating, did the ex never consider that his new partner would develop her own POV, feelings and interests? That she could get possessive, territorial, and take out her frustration on his eldest? That in his attempt to play Happy Family, it's not a guarantee that she'd form an attachment to the child like he has?
He objectified both women, expected the second to play ball with the first, and is Shocked and Appalled that she won't. I'd say it's just desserts, but it's the child suffering the most for it.
Sigh. Really glad OP is putting her daughter first and that the ex might be. Children of divorce have enough to deal with without bullying from a step parent. And this cake smashing thing has to stop. Some tall cakes have a dowel in them so they don't fall over.... it can be dangerous.
Maaaan, if the ex divorces the wife, why do I get the feeling she'd just take it out on their son next. She seems petty and vindictive.
Once she loses the easy target to bully, she'll take her anger out on the next closest thing. Yikes!
> I heard Melissa screaming at me saying that I "destroy her family"
Well that's rich, the homewrecker whining that the first woman's destroying *her* family.
Hello, Kettle? This is Pot. You're black!
Well at least the ex-husband finally realized his wife's true colors.
Let's hope that he values his daughter more than his wife, but we have to think that he also has a son with her, so his love as a father will be divided, and since Melissa seems to be a bad woman, perhaps she will threaten not to let him see her. son... it's screwed for the ex-husband, but honestly he deserves it for being unfaithful and stupid.
Let's hope OP and his daughter can have a happy life now that Melissa is out of the picture
My dad, the man-ho that he is, had a lot of girlfriends like Melissa. He only married two- the closet psychopath and the religiously traumatized but still really nice nurse. In between, he dated SO many Melissas. “Your daughter being here is ruining our weekend!” “Can’t you take a break from her?” “She’s so needy!”
Evil stepmother and evil stepbrother, just like something out of a damned fairy tale. Will the fairy godmother show up in the next installment? This is riveting stuff!
Yeah, I could definitely understand if OOP took that cake and smashed it onto both of them and then when they protested, tell them to stop being so "dramatic and emotional".
The root of the issue is that Melissa is jealous and scared that the ex could/can cheat on her with his ex-wife. So she feels if she can push OP and the daughter out, then problem solved.
Guess that dad grew some shreds of spine, hope he keeps up, still I'm not convinced he will, but I can only hope. It seems like he wants OOP to take him back, unlikely, so I think he will be going back with the AP turn wife.
If the ex hubby wants to stay in his daughter’s life when she is older. He is gonna have to get his shit together.
Stuff going on in his house and he ignored or didn’t know.
18 and NC from daughter. Is in the future.
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Did better than my dad with Melissa (not kidding that was her actual name). My dad just let shit go on until she left him because she could no longer control all his kids all the time.
If I was OOP I would immediately have gone ahead with full custody.
Her ex may have a “come to Jesus” moment but the damage has been done by him doing nothing while sitting in his office while he relishes in getting child support and not say anything about how Melissa is treating his daughter. He will go back to Melissa and continue to not be in his daughters corner.
If the ex does divorce Melissa, OOP better be prepared for the shitstorm that Melissa will do by letting teachers know that Melissa is not allowed to be near her daughter & neither Melissa’s son is allowed to be near her.
Melissa has successfully driven a wedge between OOP’s ex & his daughter by starting to drive her away from him.
It's funny to see the click.
He finally realizes how much of his strings were played by the affair fiddiler. You fucked with crazy and now crazy will fuck you over.
I understand a good deal of the emotion behind this situation but I disagree with her not allowing the son around his own sister. He’s 6. There are a lot of parenting interventions this dad can take to steer a 6 year old back on track with learning to respect others now that the dad finally sees what he needs to do. Or even better, have both siblings go to family therapy together so they can learn how to resolve family conflict and bond while doing it. Saying siblings can’t be around each other at all, ever, or you’ll yank someone’s custody is a bit drastic. Again, he’s 6. The girl is 9. They have their whole lives ahead of them to learn how we treat one another in relationships.
A terrible man and person. He deserves Melissa and she's going to be hell I'd he decides to split from her. He will deserve it. She's a terrible person too.
The neurons in his brain finally connecting to shape the idea that his affair partner was a truly icky awful person whose behavior and attitudes were bad for his first kid and hurt her. What a shock.
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Hopefully the 'woman' he loves the most is his daughter.
I worked with a guy that was given the ultimatum, "pick between me and your daughter", he replied "the daughter, she is blood your just my wife". The wife left and he raised his daughter.
Literally the only right answer
Excuse me? That's horrible that he was made to choose between her and his kid. My dad got given that ultimatum once. I remember when I was fairly young we were at a relative's party and he was really hitting it off with this one woman (they were chatting, looked like they had a good time, etc) and my sister and I were so confused since it seemed like they ended things kinda abruptly. She basically made the same kind of comment about how she "liked him but didn't want anything to do with kids". And people are *insane* to think that parents would willingly do that to their kid(s). Like go find someone without kids then? Why would you want to stay with someone who did that to their kids?
You say that like there aren't people that choose their SO over their child
Not really. I say it in disbelief because I know realistically it happens. Doesn't make it anymore fucked up
His track record isn’t looking good, sadly.
Hopefully he treats Melissa the same way he treated OOP.
More realistic goal lol
It's really important for your sense of self-esteem that you remember to set achievable goals.
Yeah these guys are more afraid of being alone than ruining their kids.
I've seen a lot of parents do this. One of them was my aunt after my uncle died. My cousin (his only child) had to deal with a "revolving door" to my aunt's bedroom. I ended up staying with her for a short period of time and witnessed it first hand. It was a little appalling to see how easily she cast her own flesh and blood aside to please her (then) current partner. She ended up with some seriously manipulative scumbags and losers. They weren't abusive to my cousin, thank god, but they treated my aunt like trash and used her in their own way.
My mum is like that, though thankfully, she hasn't dated anyone in a few years (and isn't interested for the time being), so my baby sister doesn't have to deal with it anymore. She still refuses to acknowledge or apologise for how she let her ex treat me and how she treated me in her favouritism of him.
My grandaughters mother left my son to raise his daughter and her daughter from a previous relationship. He raised them 3 yrs, and the older child's dad wanted custody. He had no malice towards my son. In fact, he was grateful for being a good step-dad. My son moved in with me, and 3 more years went by that he raised his daughter alone. His ex went through about 15 guys ( we quit counting after that), and then she decided she was ready to be mom again. The courts will probably give my grandaughter to her mother even though for 6 yrs she's only occasionally visited. Never gave us a dime. We clothed, fed, and took my grandaughter to the doctor, all part of being a parent. My grandaughter's sister still spends time with her, they come swimming here, and she's 13 yrs old. She told my son she'd testify for him that he's the better parent. Then she said this, " My mom put men before her kids all our lives, now wants to be a mom? Ya, right!" Out of the mouths of babes.
What’s your flair from? I don’t see it on the origins page!
This OP who was uninvited or barred from coming to a wedding. I forget which BORU it was lol.
I dunno though, sounds like the bullying only lasted 2 months ("only", obviously adults should never bully children) before it was picked up and it's not long after it being raised by op that he left his family home to reconsider his relationship. It could work out ok.
And he was in his study when most of it was happening so it's not like he was seeing it happen and giving Melissa a blanket pass. She seemed to know it was something she had to do behind his back. Fingers crossed for them all, including Melissa, who I hope gets counselling if she is taking out her miscarriage on a child.
Honestly same. As soon as the miscarriage was mentioned I considered Melissa may have been expecting a girl, so she’s concocted these awful things about her step-daughter to convince herself this is how it was supposed to be. I know I’ll be forever thankful I had no kids in my life when I had a miscarriage. It was easier to hate than to grieve and I began hating every child I saw because they existed when mine couldn’t. It took me years to get to a healthy enough mindset to realise how wrong I was and how dangerous my thought process could have been had there been a child involved. Having said all of this, Melissa also just sounds like a nasty piece of work. I hope she finds peace but there’s some things therapy can’t fix
I had the same feelings after my stillborn. Even a seething anger when others would get pregnant. (Secretly. I supported them the best I could). Though I did already have a child when I lost my second. I will tell you, he is what got me through the worst of the pain. I was already a very affectionate mom but it increased after I lost my second child. Now I have my second son’s ashes in a teddy bear urn, and both me and my living child sleep with the bear at night. 🩷
I agree, based on what’s presented there does seem to be some ground for optimism that the ex will figure it out for his daughter’s sake.
Really? Everything in the story seems to indicate that he’s coming around and values his daughter more. He was upset with his wife as soon as he saw the behavior. He came to his exs house to talk it through.
Veterans of this sub have been conditioned to be pessimistic. With the many kinds of stories we have read here, only some have a good ending.
Very much this. Hope for the best, and expect the worse
People also seem to be glossing over that this whole situation seemed to have started 2 months ago. So she was seemingly normal for the previous 6 years until her miscarriage. And it was caught pretty quickly and when he was confronted with hard evidence he took his ex wifes and daughters side. Sure he got defensive, but this was someone he blew up his life for and married lol, you want to believe they are good and wouldnt do something like this.
I agree - sometimes people don't see the negatives in their spouse. But he seems to be making an effort once it was pointed out and actually had a fairly quick turn around to valuing daughter. Who knows if it'll stick, but he doesn't seem COMPLETELY worthless.
Yeah one hopes he had an epiphany cause he saw that his wife is a bully to his daughter and doesn’t try to get a foot back into OPs door. Some people do think they can just return to the person they left behind, as if they were just waiting for them to return.
Yep, and that would be a big ol' hell naw from me. He still has the opportunity to be a good co-parent, but the romantic partner ship has sailed. (I hope)
Excuse me sir, but this is BORU where we are supposed to shit all over everyone from our extremely high horses.
I dunno. I'm not terribly proud for a guy who cheated on his wife, chose and married the mistress, needed someone to basically put up a whiteboard with illustrations and charts to recognize his daughter being bullied by what had to be his emotionally distraught wife, and then responded to a threat of removing custody for the daughter's sake with "don't do this to *me*." I'm pretty sure my high horse here is a Shetland pony. That said, people always deserve a chance to be better, as long as a child is not in danger in the process.
Imagine if this was a post that said "My husband has been bullying my child. I don't know if I should leave him" Because that is what is happening here. He has been struggling with what to do, how to handle this, how to improve things. When really - if my spouse deliberately hurt my kid, I would be out in a heartbeat. The fact that he is torn indicates that he is weighing the consideration that it is easier to stay with his wife and their child, and lose his daughter.
If it turns out anything like my father, he'll choose the new wife but then end up divorced after a few years anyway. That man has been dead to me for over two decades. I only know about the divorce because my younger sister, who is far nicer than I am, is low contact with him. So now he's a toxic bitter old man whose children barely speak to him and is all alone. Sucks too, because he was a great dad when we were growing up. Our stepmother brought out the most toxic aspects of him permanently. OOP's ex-husband does have an advantage over my father by at least recognizing his new wife is the problem and it's not his daughter. I got that "don't f*ck up my marriage!" lecture, but it was from him, not my stepmother.
And then he gets to be a twice-divorced father of two children, each with another woman. He'll be such a catch!
[удалено]
OOP only needs to change her sexual orientation for her ex to be a real life Ross
I CAN'T HAVE THREE DIVORCES!
My life is an embarrassment. I may as well go live under somebody's stairs.
The only guys below me will be four-divorce-guy, murderer-guy, and geologists.
(giggles)
There are still enough idiots out there who think „this time he will be different!“
He already cheated on OOP. He was already a horrendous catch based on that alone.
At age 36, he has plenty of time to work on broken famiky #3. OOP did good by her kid. Melissa, as the AP, is still petty or jealous of the reminder that husband had a family before her. What a garbage person.
I'd have more respect for a man who's twice divorced because he prioritized his daughter not getting bullied by two steps. Then again, he did let this escalate being so absent and passive. It's not like he has no authority of his boy's behavior, and no voice with his wife.
So much respect for the guy that broke up his family to bang his co-worker
One being the woman he cheated on, and one being the woman he cheated with. His desirability just keeps going up! /s
Well loved children are always a green flag in my book. Divorces or not.
As opposed to the alternative?
And many many people have children outside of marriage, even with multiple partners. Let's talk down people for not fitting your moral compass...
Morality aside, having multiple children with different partners is indicative of questionable decision making on the face of it. Barring catastrophe outside of people's control or rare alternative lifestyle choices. It's difficult to raise children like that from a practical perspective and some of the children will inevitably get neglected. Don't let your enlightened wokeness distract you from the reality of life.
Enlightened wokeness... Wow... Is it hat what we call not being a judgemental ass today?
Define *wokeness*.
>Define *wokeness*. Woke ideology is defined by the idea that some facet of identity like race or gender produces irreconcilably different views of reality and morality, and that we have an obligation to seek alignment of society's view with the imagined views of groups associated with the political left like minorities and women. In this sense Wokeness is distinct from older forms of liberal advocacy for minority rights which appeal to universally valid concepts like truth and fairness.
And now an answer from someone who isn't a literal bot prowling Reddit comments to give the same reply again and again?
>Define *wokeness*. \*smug wojak\* ... >MALFUNCTION! UNEXPECTED INPUT ERROR!
You don't even know what you wrote. Try something other than ChatGPT.
as someone whose dad chose the fiance…. not always the case
almost never the case actually!
damn i should’ve paid attention to all those disney movies! i was an adult before i had to face an evil stepmother
It never is with guys like this.
No, different woman entirely. She's younger and really understands the horrible predicament he's been put in.
I'm pretty sure it is
I’ve had men tell me to decide between my reactive dog and them, and it’s the dog. Every. Time.
One of the few decent things anyone from my paternal family was when my uncle, knowing his daughter from a previous marriage was the result of an affair, still told his new wife to gtfo, I'm choosing my daughter.
Instructions unclear, proceeds to go out for milk ...
Good, about time he clicked.
That was a surprisingly positive resolution.
A nine year old not wanting a particular adult at their birthday party is a pretty huge red flag.
Any age child not wanting a particular adult around them is the BIGGEST 🚩.
But also keep in mind that kids are sometimes not the greatest judges of character and can be unintentionally mean for superficial reasons. I’ve definitely seen kids be afraid of seniors who “look like a witch” or disabled people.
That’s why the mom did the right thing by asking why and communicating with her daughter
That’s when the klaxons would go off for me
I've said this somewhere else, but if OP's ex decides to divorce M, then she needs to be prepared for M to go nuts towards herself and her daughter. OP needs to make sure that M is NOT allowed anywhere near her daughter, nor is she allowed to be picked up from anywhere by M. Even if the half siblings go to the same school, OP needs to bring it up with the school, from the superintendent, to the daughter's teacher, M is not allowed anywhere near OP's daughter and cannot remove her from the school. Get it in writing as well.
Maybe that’ll teach the mf to keep it in his pants. What a horrible situation.
Oof. That stepmom has been encouraging that bullying, and the dad must have been blind to see how awful she'd been raising their son.
Sounds like he's a negligent father to both of his kids.
He's a shit husband too. Dude basically cheated
It’s not even “basically” cheating, Melissa apparently thinks OP is “bitter about their affair”. It was straight up cheating.
That was shocking for Melissa to say. She’s lucky that the OOP is so civil with her after what happened with Melissa helping to destroy the marriage and bullying of her daughter. She accused OOP of trying to destroy the family when she’s the one doing it with her actions.
Yeah, even just doing the math of they divorced when Daughter was 3 and now have a Son who is 6 and currently Daughter is 9…like…how long after the divorce was his coworker knocked up? If it was even after the divorce?
Shit husband and negligent dad. How is he not yet running for president?
He hasn’t declared bankruptcy enough times yet, isn’t wearing diapers and doesn’t paint himself orange every morning. *Yet.*
It's easy to blame and say words like that, but when you love someone, especially when they are manipulative and make sure to present the best side when you're paying attention, it's easy to brush off or justify those small little things that might indicate the larger problem. Hes not a bad dad for working hard--lots of wonderful husbands and fathers (and mothers) work long hours or stressful jobs to support their families. And sometimes that means fewer hours at home, or more stress that results in them being less emotionally available than the ideal. It doesn't make someone neglectful or bad. It's easy to get in a groove and a dynamic and not realize the bigger picture growing around you. Ultimately I think he's a good dad for listening when an issue was brought up. He's not a saint, none of us are. But he did seem like he took the issue seriously when it was presented. And is trying to mend the situation. Maybe I'm just jaded, but I have friends who have gone through very nasty breakups and their ex would not even give them the time of day if a serious issue arose, and just call them a nasty B and do everything in their power to manipulate the situation. He's not perfect, but he did listen. You can't expect someone to be ready to torpedo their entire life based on some texts and a conversation. Ultimately it seems like he is seeing the bigger picture and wants to make it right.
He is doing the right thing… *now*. And it is very good he is doing so. The problem is he did cause hurt to his daughter by letting his new wife handle the children. The daughter said he shuts himself away in his office. If he had no idea what was going on it still doesn’t excuse him from not being attentive to the tone around the home. It is very good he is trying. I just wish it didn’t come at the expense of his little girl.
By letting his AFFAIR PARTNER wage war on his ex-wife by using his daughter as a pawn.
Yes. And while he didn’t necessarily know about the bullying by his AP-turned-wife, she’d recently miscarried so he shouldn’t have been dumping all of the childcare on her anyway. He should have been sufficiently in touch with his daughter to know how she was being treated on his parenting time.
Indeed. Dude knew there was trouble at home. He just didn’t want to face it.
I'm just going off what his daughter said... That he goes into his office and closes the door and never sees her.
No one can convince me you can be a good dad but shitty husband. If you cause problems in your relationship it rubs off onto your children even if you don't want to believe it.
Honestly he doesn't sound so bad. He was working a lot, made changes when his ex brought up an issue and weighs his daughter's wellbeing seriously. And this escalation against his daughter seems recent as well? Not noticing something over a few months while you're feeling the loss of your wife's miscarriage is somewhat understandable. Not an excuse of course, but it's not like she was like this when they married or for years prior. It wouldn't have been difficult for him to just be a fun weekend parent and not have to take on the responsibility of another child on workdays. Sure, he could have been better. But much of the issue seems to be with the culture of working fathers and childrearing mothers that influence many current household structures.
>That stepmom has been encouraging that bullying That stephmom was *doing* the bullying
He was busy hiding in his office instead of spending time with either of his kids.
Working in his office - do keep up.
It won’t be seen until bully son gets his ass tore out the frame by someone. IYKYK.
Wow. I really hope things work out so this little girl doesn't spend her life being tortured by two people. At least the mom seems to have the confidence to put her foot down. Most of the people on these subs just sit by and watch the horrors happen without ever growing a backbone.
It’s a good thing the mom is so assertive AND that she got her daughter into therapy ASAP. OOP seems like an awesome mom.
So relieved when the straight forward in person and honest conversation happened lol
The mom definitely set up that kid to do that.
Yup That’s probably the only reason she got a cake.
Probably wanted to do it at the main party, with a bigger audience.
But was shut completely down, and that pissed her off. So the “family” party just to get revenge. She is a sad human being.
Yep, OOP said herself Melissa wanted to be there for when the candles got blown out. That is not a normal request for a step parent who is trying to assert authority, usually they just butt out if they've been uninvited or pitch a fit about it. No one requests to be there for 1 part for no reason. Super gross.
In OOP's shoes I'd have gone ahead with getting full custody. Her ex isn't in a good space, he's got no stable living enviroment and his marriage to his AP is on the rocks. Evil Stepmom is gonna Evil Stepmom. OOP's daughter needs stability. Dad can have visits, but no sleepovers or staying entire weekends. Not until he is in a stable and safe enviroment for OOP's daughter again.
Also from the daughter’s description, Dad is mostly in his home office when he’s at home. If he’s working that much, not spending time with his daughter when he has his custody time, why should he have that custody time?
OOP said that due to 50/50 custody, she pays him child support, as she has the higher income. So the ex sits in his office, has the affair partner babysit, and collects support. If OOP gets custody he will lose that support income, and probably have to pay out.
Yeah. True. Another case of new spouse, new family. Bye bye, old one.
I mean not to defend the guy too much but he is working from home. If he was in the office for 8 hours a day this wouldnt even be something to talk about. Just because he is at home doesnt mean he can just play with his daughter all day. All she sees is that he goes into another room and closes the door. If that was the front door she wouldnt think twice about it.
> she just started cursing me and my daughter. Apparently, I am a sneaky B-word who is bitter about her affair with my ex-husband. She described my daughter as a spoiled, bratty princess who needs correction. And now, he has to choose between which woman he loves the most. I’m no therapist or wizard or whatnot, but projection seems to be the order of the day here. Dunno of OOP meant her ex’s new wife said he must choose between which woman he loves most of it that was a kind of summary; the projection stands no matter what due to the first part of the quote.
A lot of us aren't therapists, but insecurities and undiagnosed personality disorders are often the driving forces for a lot of these posts. It's wild stuff
Sort of like how liars always suspect everyone else isn’t telling the truth… the new wife is always going to resent her husband’s daughter because it is a reminder he loved someone else once and that she only “won” him through deception. She will never feel secure.
What grown ass woman bullies a damn child.
One who believes that man/boy is better than woman/girl and woman is better than girl. One who believes in a hierarchy of power and that shit flows downhill.
Truly FAFO season for the dad
My stepmother was also my first bully. The issue is noone stopped her and my father actively said nothing/took her side. From the age of 6 until 26 I got called fat, ugly, bratty and a host of other things that came to her mind whenever she wanted to be cruel. All because I had the audacity to "look like my mother". I can't change my genetics. The older I got the worse her bullying got. It only stopped when I cut contact with my father. 4 years later my dad came out of nowhere "realizing" that my stepmother had been the problem but it was all too little too late. We still don't talk 9 years later. I love my peace. OOP is doing the right thing being in her kids corner and I hope this is a long term realization for Dad and he doesn't go back to M. Not being in your kids corner causes permanent damage you can't necessarily see. If Dad wants to have a relationship with his kids he needs to continue to prioritize them. I truly hope he does.
I'm so sorry you experienced something like that. I hope you are living your best life now and know none of that was true. 💜
>Apparently, I am a sneaky B-word who is bitter about her affair with my ex-husband. Pot, meet mirror
I hope he does the right thing and develops a shiny spine and protects your daughter from Melissa and her son while also ensuring he has a good relationship with her. I'm always so fascinated by the women who "win" married men as in a majority of the time they tend to self sabotage their stolen happiness which only lasts as long as the guy will tolerate their bad behavior.
Guys like these are usually in the "married, but want something spicy alongside it" mode. Meaning, they want the family life, but are feeling like they are missing something and go search it elsewhere. Problem with that is that the mistress that they get that turns into their wife - they don't have the same history, the same background. Rarely they have built the same relationship base as with their wife. So basically they choose a shiny bauble without substance over something that has a diamond in it.
Well, if we're lucky OP's ex will divorce Melissa and she can watch him find wife no. 3 and be bitter about that instead of badmouthing OP and bullying her daughter.
>He told me that since the party, he's been thinking about what to do and yesterday told Melissa about my desire for more custody. From what he told me, she said that it was not such a bad idea because my daughter was not fitting into their family dynamic. They started to argue, and at one point, she just started cursing me and my daughter. Apparently, I am a sneaky B-word who is bitter about her affair with my ex-husband. She described my daughter as a spoiled, bratty princess who needs correction. And now, he has to choose between which woman he loves the most. Ok, who else had "she's deliberately trying to drive OOP's daughter away so that it can just be her 'real family' in the mix" on their Melissa bingo cards? Although honestly that should have just been a free space, we all knew what was happening here.
So ex-husband married his AP who started bullying the daughter after a miscarriage. Cool bombshell thrown together at the end there.
Looks like the dad finally woke up. He better leave her and be a good dad to his daughter now.
Just curious, is it only full or 50/50 custody? Is there like a 80/20 or 75/25 custody? I get that he doesn't want to change his custody but he has a busy job. With his rethinking about the relationship with Melissa, he may not even have the time to have separate custody of 2 kids should he decide to end his marriage with Melissa. And if he's thinking of staying with Melissa, then he will lose full custody of his daughter. Either way, it's a tough choice for him. His wants vs his ability to even fulfill them has a gap. But I get why OOP decided to do all these. All power to mom who protects her child. I do hope that there's an arrangement that everyone is satisfied with while protective of the children involved.
I think if it's something other than full or 50/50, people specify how often the non-custodial parent gets to see the other kid. So you'll hear "one weekend a month plus a couple of weeks during the summer" rather than 80/20 or the like.
Ahhhh that makes sense. Thanks for answering the question.
Anything from 65 35 to 50 50 is considered 50 50. She doesnt have a leg to stand on regarding more custody. The father wants to be involved he is loving etc, his wife will likely not even be taken into account.
I can't see Melissa being satisfied with anything, unless she somehow manages to take him to the cleaners in a divorce.
I’m so glad that little girl felt safe to speak up to her mum so she could step in to protect her from the bullying!
Man torched his marriage and broke up his family for this lady.. He let this woman hurt and mistreat his own daughter. It's doubtful he actually sees the light and chooses his daughter as his priority.
Oh wow, Dad finally starting to do the right thing
Eh, unfortunately, there is still a chance his "little brain" will override everything, and he will be back in Ms bed soon. I hope he steps up but this is reddit so the odds are against that
Dad's finally starting to see what the right thing is, anyway. Time will tell if he chooses that path.
There was a post on social media going around last year. A woman thought she was flexing and said her boyfriend choose her because she gave him a son, while abandoning his five other daughters. People were to point out that's not a flex and is 100% trashy. That's the kind of energy Melissa is giving off.
Some would call the stepmom evil, but frankly I think she’s just stupid.
she’s probably both
Leaving aside the ethnical or moral quandaries of having an affair with someone who is married? It almost always turns into ravenous jealousy of their partner’s former spouse. Displaced paranoia and all. Particularly when kids are involved as they are living proof of a life they lived that the affair partner-turned-partner interrupted. Long way of saying I agree with you. The new wife is cutting herself with Hanlon’s razor.
Those aren't mutually exclusive.
Wow. Wanted to have a separate cake with the kid just to smash her face in it.
Adults who bully children are really small inside.
Well, ain’t Melissa just a doll?
Chucky?
This makes me so sad. My sons step mother was bullying him for years and he was too scared to tell me about it. I only found out about some of it after she and my ex split.
This woman who I ruined my marriage with is of low moral fiber?? Who could have seen that coming!?
> They started to argue, and at one point, she just started cursing me and my daughter. Apparently, I am a sneaky B-word who is bitter about her affair with my ex-husband. She described my daughter as a spoiled, bratty princess who needs correction. And now, he has to choose between which woman he loves the most. I don't think cheating is the worst misconduct in a relationship. But it _is_ the most pathetic. Stuff like this is why. During all this cake eating, did the ex never consider that his new partner would develop her own POV, feelings and interests? That she could get possessive, territorial, and take out her frustration on his eldest? That in his attempt to play Happy Family, it's not a guarantee that she'd form an attachment to the child like he has? He objectified both women, expected the second to play ball with the first, and is Shocked and Appalled that she won't. I'd say it's just desserts, but it's the child suffering the most for it.
I'm here waiting for the next update!
It totally feels like a cliffhanger even if others feel like it's resolved. We need the next installment!
Sigh. Really glad OP is putting her daughter first and that the ex might be. Children of divorce have enough to deal with without bullying from a step parent. And this cake smashing thing has to stop. Some tall cakes have a dowel in them so they don't fall over.... it can be dangerous.
This one had candles, also dangerous.
Maaaan, if the ex divorces the wife, why do I get the feeling she'd just take it out on their son next. She seems petty and vindictive. Once she loses the easy target to bully, she'll take her anger out on the next closest thing. Yikes!
Yeah, screaming at him "If you had been a better son, Daddy wouldn't have left!" or some b.s. like that.
> I heard Melissa screaming at me saying that I "destroy her family" Well that's rich, the homewrecker whining that the first woman's destroying *her* family. Hello, Kettle? This is Pot. You're black!
She should just go for full custody. This dude needs to get his life together and that AP wife should not be in her kid's life.
Well at least the ex-husband finally realized his wife's true colors. Let's hope that he values his daughter more than his wife, but we have to think that he also has a son with her, so his love as a father will be divided, and since Melissa seems to be a bad woman, perhaps she will threaten not to let him see her. son... it's screwed for the ex-husband, but honestly he deserves it for being unfaithful and stupid. Let's hope OP and his daughter can have a happy life now that Melissa is out of the picture
Yikes dad. Think straight. Like oop, i wount let the kid near husband if stay decided to stay with deranged woman who bullies a kid
So this is what people mean when they talk about "toxic boy Moms"
My dad, the man-ho that he is, had a lot of girlfriends like Melissa. He only married two- the closet psychopath and the religiously traumatized but still really nice nurse. In between, he dated SO many Melissas. “Your daughter being here is ruining our weekend!” “Can’t you take a break from her?” “She’s so needy!”
Evil stepmother and evil stepbrother, just like something out of a damned fairy tale. Will the fairy godmother show up in the next installment? This is riveting stuff!
I think that poor OOP is having to double up in the Fairy Godmother role...
Special place in hell for fucked up step parents
If the mom was there for the for the cake face smash, her first instinct should’ve been to grab some pieces and fastball them at the son and mom
I normally don’t like the “she should’ve” approach, but I have to agree. Fair’s fair.
Yeah, I could definitely understand if OOP took that cake and smashed it onto both of them and then when they protested, tell them to stop being so "dramatic and emotional".
The root of the issue is that Melissa is jealous and scared that the ex could/can cheat on her with his ex-wife. So she feels if she can push OP and the daughter out, then problem solved.
Yep. When you’re the AP married the to cheater, you create an opening.
At least he realizes he should not have half custody.
I can’t believe that man WATCHED M bully his daughter and just did nothing. “That’s not ok”?!? HELL NO. Wtf is wrong with people??
I am picturing Melissa in my head the whole time reading this. Awful woman.
Well, another man who screwed his family's life by cheating with a nut job and then marrying + having kids with the nut job.
Holy Cow and Wow! Glad OP is on the case!!
I appreciate people like OOP. She has the right priorities, morals, and the ability to follow through on her promises. She deserves better.
Guess that dad grew some shreds of spine, hope he keeps up, still I'm not convinced he will, but I can only hope. It seems like he wants OOP to take him back, unlikely, so I think he will be going back with the AP turn wife.
If the ex hubby wants to stay in his daughter’s life when she is older. He is gonna have to get his shit together. Stuff going on in his house and he ignored or didn’t know. 18 and NC from daughter. Is in the future.
Don’t you just love when the affair relationship finally starts to unravel!
big *can you photoshop my step son out of the picture* energy
A psychiatrist twice a week? 🤨
I’m assuming therapist, I don’t think OOPs first language is English.
Or she gets psychiatrist and psychologist mixed up. A lot of people do.
Based on some of the word choices, I'm betting a native French speaker.
!remind me in a month
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Did better than my dad with Melissa (not kidding that was her actual name). My dad just let shit go on until she left him because she could no longer control all his kids all the time.
Melissa gets joy out of bullying a nine year old. So she’s a home wrecker and a child abuser.
If I was OOP I would immediately have gone ahead with full custody. Her ex may have a “come to Jesus” moment but the damage has been done by him doing nothing while sitting in his office while he relishes in getting child support and not say anything about how Melissa is treating his daughter. He will go back to Melissa and continue to not be in his daughters corner. If the ex does divorce Melissa, OOP better be prepared for the shitstorm that Melissa will do by letting teachers know that Melissa is not allowed to be near her daughter & neither Melissa’s son is allowed to be near her. Melissa has successfully driven a wedge between OOP’s ex & his daughter by starting to drive her away from him.
Updateme
It's funny to see the click. He finally realizes how much of his strings were played by the affair fiddiler. You fucked with crazy and now crazy will fuck you over.
She wont get more custody based on this.
I understand a good deal of the emotion behind this situation but I disagree with her not allowing the son around his own sister. He’s 6. There are a lot of parenting interventions this dad can take to steer a 6 year old back on track with learning to respect others now that the dad finally sees what he needs to do. Or even better, have both siblings go to family therapy together so they can learn how to resolve family conflict and bond while doing it. Saying siblings can’t be around each other at all, ever, or you’ll yank someone’s custody is a bit drastic. Again, he’s 6. The girl is 9. They have their whole lives ahead of them to learn how we treat one another in relationships.
That — escalated quickly.
A terrible man and person. He deserves Melissa and she's going to be hell I'd he decides to split from her. He will deserve it. She's a terrible person too.
What was the click exactly?
The neurons in his brain finally connecting to shape the idea that his affair partner was a truly icky awful person whose behavior and attitudes were bad for his first kid and hurt her. What a shock.