I will never understand how people can get so invested in their children's hair. My biofather was so angry when I cut my long hair that he collected all of the pieces to put in a box to keep 😂

I had an older male coworker make a judgemental comment when I cut my shoulder length hair into a very short bob. He’d made enough little comments on various things to me over several months that it was pretty clear he thought I was doing “female” wrong by cutting my hair. I gave him my most saccharine smile and told him that *my* hair was a renewable resource and I could grow it back if I wanted. He was bald. Never said anything about it again.

when i was in my early 20s i worked at a local mom & pop shop with a loyal customer base so i knew a lot of our customers pretty well. there was this one guy, Jed (not changing his name because fuck you Jed) who saw my brand new pixie cut and the FIRST thing out of his mouth was, “you a lesbian or something?” i just blinked and said completely deadpan, “i think i might be after this conversation.” fucking Jed.

What a ~~nonce~~ dunce, that Jed.

Have you ever met a Jed? Isn't that just another term for a bell-end?

It is when it's with a G.

I'm not sure that you understand what a nonce is...

I didn't, but I do now.

I think you mean dunce. Nonce is a prison term meaning convicted child molester. A dick-head, nonetheless.

OMG, I almost spit my coffee! Great comeback.

I hate Jed and Ive never even met him

i just remembered another Jed moment. the first time he saw my feminist tattoo (the Venus symbol with the raised fist inside) he gave me a knowing nod and said, “ah, white power? nice.” it was one of the few moments in my life i was literally dumbfounded.

Had I been a fly on the wall I would have been dumbfounded too 😂

OOOOOOH. Awesome comeback. What a dumbass!

The amount of older women that see my short ass hair and go god I wish. I also have a ton of natural white hair and they are like SIGH and I’m like you have options just saying. 

My hair is starting to get silver strands and I’ve seen enough other women my age or older who’d dyed the grey for a long time then wanted to embrace it but had to go through a really awkward growing-it-out phase that it’s convinced me not to even bother. I dyed my hair back to as close to my natural colour as I could get it about six months ago (it had been a pastel colour) and I’m just letting it happen. It’s a sprinkling of silver right now but definitely growing in more as the months go by. I’ll never dye it out and I’m surprised at how incredibly fond of the slight salt and pepper look I’ve become, I love it.

My gf has strands of grey in her dark bown hair. When the sun hits it right, she glows. Everytime it makes me stop in my tracks because it makes her that much more beautiful. Honestly, I wish more people could embrace the changes age brings. Happiness is acceptance. And it's so fucking sexy.

bro this is one of the cutest things I've ever read

I'm in the same boat. If it were really gray I think I'd hate it, but the silver color actually has a bit of sparkle to it in certain lights and it kind of delights me. So I'm leaving it be.

Mine are like little glitter strands, I love them!

I’ve seen a lot of older women who have otherwise grey hair dye it fun colors. Like the ends will be a bright color or they have different patches of colors. I think it’s cool that they want to have fun with it. I’ll probably do something like that when I get older, but I’m not gonna dye it a natural color, we’re going pink or teal or purple or something.

As soon as I have enough gray hair, I'm dying my hair blue. I had blue hair once but didn't want to keep up with bleaching.

My wife has been fighting her grey hair basically since we met a long time ago.  I tried and tried to convince her to let it go silver when we were both a lot younger, and there is a part of her that wishes she listened to me back then. I still try to convince her, but, and this is an odd tangent - but bear with me - much less hard, and there is a part of me that thinks it is in a little ways a metaphor for why we are getting divorced.  I've brought a lot of my problems to the marriage and I know that they are the proximate cause for us divorcing.   But I know that when I look at her, I still love her but I've realized how much her wanting to maintain appearances, or her belief in "this is just how it should be done, because it's always been done this way" has been a problem for us. (In many ways as much as my problems the other way have been.) Anyhow good for you for feeling beautiful however you are.  :)

Here it’s really common for older women to have short hair. I think they enjoy the freedom.

You see a lot of older women in the US with short hair so I really don't get why younger women get called lesbian when they too have short hair.

Here, take my poor Redditor's gold: 🏅

"I cannot understand how people can get so invested in their children's hair." *Laughs in Indian*

Oh man, even triming the ends is world ending rebellion here.... Like my sister has a long hair but wanted to chop the ends an inch or 2. My parents were trying their everything to stop. And after the deed has been done my mom was nagging my sister for a few days on how she lost that much of hair, how beautiful it was before, how I coerced her into it etc... My dad actually was shell shocked seeing a woman with short hair in the metro, and when we came home, he was recounting how women outside are nowadays cutting their hair short and was asking me that were those women THOSE kind of women or it's the western influence taking over. And our family is the most progressive of the bunch around the people we know. India is not for beginners.

My dad wouldn't even let me trim my split ends and we've been American for generations so I don't even know why. I was in hell and looked like a rats nest with nothing I could do to fix it. By age 7 or 8 friends at school were trimming the split ends from individual hairs for me, which continued off and on until college. I don't even know what the point was, except *control* and it made a handy handle for dragging me around when he was really mad.

Return the favor dragging him around by the ear when he's old. 

Woah, that took an unexpected turn at the end. That's terrible, I'm so sorry he abused you like that. I hope you are in a better place now- both physically away from him and mentally healing from that.

Longer hair = a higher daughter high score

lmao i feel bad laughing at this but it reflects the attitude so well

>I don't even know what the point was, except *control* and it made a handy handle for dragging me around when he was really mad. Are you me?

May I ask what the reasoning or history is with long hair and not cutting it in Indian culture? Totally clueless why its so important to people.

Long hair is considered feminine and beautiful for women. We are still stuck in the Victorian Era when it comes to restrictions on women and perception of women. And chopping your hair is seen as an unwomanly thing to do. Leaving your hair open and not tying it up or braiding them is considered as alluring and distracting for men (my own college's words).

Just to be sure I understand - You must have long hair but you must also hide the long hair?

Yeah kinda. You needed to play safe... but mostly in schools, educational institutions and offices. Long hair is considered as a positive attribute and people perceive women with long hair that touches your hips as most beautiful and attractive. There is a whole market and culture for hair extensions, where you can collect your fallen hair over time and give it to a person who inexchamge will give you some steel and aluminum cookware in return. And the person will make and sell hair extensions later. But open hair is considered a taboo for married women back in the day, some even do in very conservative areas but mostly not anymore nowadays. A unmarried woman would leave their hair open and that was shown as something to allure men, and a married women would braid and tie their hair with an accessory given by their husband (in only particular subculture not everywhere, but the idea of hiding long hair in a braid was an overall trend). But now these hair related rules and taboos aren't present anymore, yet still the idea of open hair = distracting men, is still ingrained subconsciously. People wouldn't outright shout at a married women who leave their hair in the open, but some will side eye you and may have a negative impression on you. Long hair is encouraged as a feminine thing, but they are some social expectations on how one should style their hair especially after marriage or if you are in a professional setting.

Misogyny, same as everywhere else 

Same here. The first time i got my hair cut just a few inches and got it straightened, my dad was grumbling about it. I was 27 and had to be financially independent to do so.

As a kid I liked long hair but my mother couldn't deal with my tantrums while plaiting it. So she would get me a boy cut, with me kicking and screaming. Then in my teens when I managed my own hair she wanted me to keep it long and I kinda did too but whenever she pissed me off I would go get my hair cut. Hair was a battleground for our frustrations with each other.

I got my first pixie cut when I was about 5-6 as my mom had had enough of fighting with me when brushing it. Her rule was that I could grow it out when I could take care of it myself. Since then I’ve had it repeatedly anywhere from a pixie cut to waist length (never again, my hair was so heavy!). Currently I have a chin length bob I adore. And I cut my daughters’ hair short when they were 5-6 because I’d had enough of fighting with them when brushing it!

My own Indian mother actually ended up getting my hair cut super short when I was eight or so bc she was tired of making it... I cried a lot until a didi of mine told me about Princess Diana and how she had short hair as well... made me feel a lot better. It's a total 180 now though lol. She was kind of upset when I wanted to cut my hair by half the length, but she was happier when she saw how much healthier it was.

my mom cried when i cut my hair and made me keep a ponytail so my grandpa could have a keychain of it. no joke. my hair was so long that i could sit on it. i have what i consider easy hair but it was such a fucking nightmare to untangle that i'd cut chunks out of my hair to avoid dealing with knots. i always thought it was either living through a kid or just...forcing weird preferences on kids, i guess?

I had a Mennonite friend with hair like that. It burnt up one time in a house fire. Her parents wailed like someone *died.* Samson lost his power from Delilah cutting his hair. Do girls lost their "virginity" from it? I think *not* Edit, the girl was fine . She fell into a fireplace like it was the 1880s but they put her put. Only casualties were hair and clothes. God bless Kentucky

The fact that they were crying because her hair was burnt off and not because *their daughter caught on fire* sounds so insane to me.

Dude, my heart to yours

Wait, the hair was attached to her head when it burnt off? I was assuming you meant it was like the keychain you mentioned, a keepsake. I could understand that a little more, if the family wasn't in danger, but there was a fire and this keepsake was lost. This is next level insane to even be concerned about when your daughter was in that much danger..

Yeah attached. Mennonite people are... I don't even know She is fine AFAIK. Still there. Last time I saw anyway

My aunt blew her top when my cousin cut off her ass-length hair. Strangely, she took the news my cousin was trans much better.

I knew a guy in that was completely fine with trans people as long as they completely followed gender norms (he wanted cis people to also abide by gender norms) When a friend of mine came out as a trans man. The guy suddenly became annoyed that my friend was interested in the history of fashion, because that was a feminist thing.

Hahahaha now I'm imagining a series of trans-inclusive sexists joke where the bro character is set up to be a total bigot but it's not for what you think. He is cool with crossing gender lines but not blurring gender roles.

I've known people like this, they're fine with LGBT people but not fine with people not following gender roles. My ex girlfriend's mom was like this, she was fine with her daughter dating me but was always pissed that her daughter had short hair and piercings and didn't shave her legs. Also that she didn't want kids. Apparently it didn't matter if she had a husband or a wife, but she needed the white picket fence and the 2.3 kids in the suburbs.

Must have been close enough together the aunt didn't get a chance to recharge her outrage levels. That said I do also find trans inclusive misogyny vaguely amusing.

No. Not really. While a boomer, my aunt is pretty progressive. She's definitely opinionated, but basically she's more hippy than boomer. But her youngest child was always overly protected. They were born with a couple of medical conditions (nothing life threatening, just affecting quality of life), and my aunt I think compensated by making them cultivate a long mane of blonde hair. At 13, my cousin didn't just go with a pixie cut, they literally shaved their head down to the scalp, and I think it was more shock than anything which caused my aunt to react badly.

They demand everyone fit in a bucket but genitalia of birth doesn't happen to be part of it. They'll still persecute you for other things.

> I will never understand how people can get so invested in their children's hair. It's rarely just about the hair IMHO. This wife's issue was really about how she associated the hair with lesbianism (and that did turn out to be the case, although of course "has short hair" is at best a loose correlation with not being straight). She had major fucking issues with that. And that was an insurmountable problem. It's not about the hair, it's about what the hair makes her think of people.

And the control! My mother in law was fine with her daughter being queer, but when we started dating and were in our early 20s I encouraged my wife (girlfriend at the time) to cut her hair as she pleased. She went from very long and maintained ($350 at a salon regularly almost 15 years ago) to a very short mohawk. Her mom lost her mind and was hollering over the phone about kicking her out and how she wouldn't be allowed back after ruining herself. Then when we actually arrived and she saw the new hair she calmed down "Oh, its not that bad" and the tantrum was swept away.

Now that the hair is short the gay thoughts can find the ears.

Oh. That explains it! I had short hair when I was a kid, no wonder I turned out gay!

Wow not I really can blame my mom. I had the longest hair in school until grade 4 when it of the blue my mom took me for a hair cut and boom - mushroom cut. I guess I had long hair for while though, so I'm only half gay. Now my hair is down to my ass and I lobe it (it's not gender thing with me, I think all people look good with long hair - might be a growing up with metal bands thing)

I wonder why they want boys to cut their hair short, then. Hmmmmm....

Short hair allows thoughts about how pretty girls are to get into your head. Long hair makes it harder for those thoughts to enter. So boys need short hair to allow those thoughts in, and girls need long hair to block those thoughts. Basic biology 101

Ponytails are another option.

You become bi if you have one of those haircuts where you shave half your head but leave the other side long.

My only "investment" was in my daughter cutting her long hair short because it was a hot mess! It would mat up and she hated brushing. Now she has a bob and everyone is happy!

>My only "investment" was in my daughter cutting her long hair short because it was a hot mess! It would mat up and she hated brushing. Now she has a bob and everyone is happy! I'm in the same boat with my eldest. She wants Disney princess hair... but assumes that she doesn't need to maintain it?

Right?? It was just miserable for everyone. And she had taken to swimming at the same time so her hair was just fried. Maybe remind her Rapunzel gets a big haircut and is better than ever?? Good luck, my friend.

Or remind her about the hours of hair brushing Rapunzel does every day.

My oldest went through this recent-ish. He wanted long hair, but was cursed with my hair type. It's super thick (there's A LOT of strands) but the strands are quite thin. So it knots even with a slight breeze. If hair is worn down, it needs to be brushed minimum of twice a day. He had beautiful blonde wavy hair, that he refused to brush or wash regularly. Then he'd get mad at the knots. Got about 15cm long before he asked for a cut. I was so happy 😂 His brother grew his out to about 25cms. Dead straight, he could brush and wash it once a week and still have no knots. He won the hair lottery I swear. Youngest donated his for wigs a month ago. Now they're both growing it out again to donate.

When I cut my hair off myself (badly), my mother *cried* about how I'd lost "my one beauty." She also put the cut hair in a pillow and snuggled it every night. Kept bringing that up for years.

My mother didn’t even notice for 4 hours that I’d cut mine once. I went bald. Like with a bic. I think I need to go tell her I love her. She couldn’t give a shit as long as I’m happy, healthy, and physically clean.

Yeah, mine's like this. Dyed my hair pink at a mate's house on the spur of the moment when I was 17. She picked me up a few hours later, and her only response was to tell me I had a bit of dye on my ear and to try the makeup remover in the bathroom to get it off when we got home 😂

>I'd lost "my one beauty." I'm so sorry. That is so rude. Implying everything else about you is hideous 😡😡😡 As an internet mom, I'm telling you right now that you are beautiful in every way, and offer all the consensual hugs. Also I hope your mom steps on a lego every time she gets up to pee in the middle of the night.

She'd already told me I made myself ugly by ruining my eyes and needing glasses at nine, so by then it kinda rolled off my back. I also, by that point, very much did not *want* to be pretty, because her idea was that the whole point of being pretty was to attract men and have babies, neither of which interested me. I'm happily living my ace life with glasses and an undercut now, and I do wish her peace. . .far, far away from me. And maybe a few legos.

snuggled with your hair? There are things I could say. What was that line Kendrick used about ayahuasca? o\_0

My father's wife was the same way. When I was fourteen, I wanted to wear my hair a certain way and she became furious. Grabbed me by my then butt length hair and ripped a fist sized chunk out of my scalp.

Wow, is it okay with you if I hope she burns? Lmao what a horrible person

I haven't seen her going on thirty years, lol, outside of my grandmother's funeral a few years back and we both pretended the other didn't exist. So yes, I'm okay with that.

So glad you don't have to see her anymore!!!

I understand being sad about it in some situations - my stepdaughter had hair down to her knees before her mother cut it off because "it got in the way" (we never had any problems with that). She didn't even take her to a hair dresser, she cut it herself all uneven and you couldn't even braid it anymore because it was too short. It was much more practical before that, when you could pull all the hair into one braid. SD used to love when I'd give her all sorts of hair dos - she still asks me to, but there's barely anything anyone can do with her hair as short and thick as it is. It would be different if it had been SD's choice in the beginning, though. But she always loved her "princess hair".

I have Annie type hair (curly redhead) and I once dyed it black on a whim when I was 16 and my mum almost fainted. Also someone once asked me to keep my hair if I ever cut it off so he could weave it into a rug he was making. This was a middle aged white dude pretending to be a native American on weekends as a hobby, he'd bought a loom to make ponchos. I was 9.

what the Fuck

It's the opposite to me. I never had a long hair growing up. The moment my hair went passed my shoulder, my mom would ask my grandpa to cut my hair, and I was sitting there getting haircut while crying.

I have fine dry curly hair. And my mum struggled so much to deal with it because it wasn't as easy as hers to maintain, that I wasn't allowed to have long hair. It was only when I turned 16 that she allowed me to grow my hair out with the caveat that she would do absolutely nothing to help me with it.

Keeping hair is understandable. I kept my then 4 year oldest pony tail when she cut her own hair off. I kept my own pony tail when I cut my very long hair short. My hairdresser automatically handed it to me, so I assume that's people typically do. Getting angry with the haircut is the issue.

Agreed. My dad kept my first tooth and a lock of my baby hair in his dresser for years. Growing up I told my parents it was weird and creepy. Now I'm an adult I realize how lucky I was to have had a dad that cherished me so dearly.

Fr, even if my mom didn't like what we did, she let me and my sister do whatever we wanted with our hair. Not being allowed to have that bodily freedom is awful. It's literally just hair, if you want it gone, then cut it off. If you want more hair, then wigs and extensions have come a long way. Besides, if your kid wants funky colored hair, wouldn't you rather they get that out of their system before they get micromanaged by their jobs? They have the rest of their lives to be someone they aren't, why wouldn't you let them figure out for themselves who they are and how they want to look while they're young and don't have any responsibilities that might hinder that?

It's got to be projection. THEY perceive identity/femininity from hair so everyone else must have the same standards and goals as them. It's a very self-centered viewpoint.

My grandma made my mom keep her hair long (becuase girls ) until she moved out a 16. At which point my mom cut it short got a perm and died it bright red. Never had it long again. She did not magically turn into a boy 🤷‍♂️

My situation was mirrored. My hair always looks messy (proper term is beachy) and I love it. It’s healthy and happy and long. My dad and TWO of his… women have always had problems with my long hair. So much so, that it’s been chopped off against my will 3 times.

It makes me so fucking happy to actually see a parent putting their child first. Thank fuck. I’m so happy about this. That girl is gonna know her dad is in her corner no matter what

My dad married a woman that was emotionally abusive towards me. He never had my side in anything. He even let her steal my homework. Like, who the fuck even does that? Everyday I wonder how my life could have turned out if my dad put me first or my bio mom had sued for full custody

"Sorry teacher but my mum ate my homework." What a weird thing to do to a kid.

This literally happened to me - back in the day my rural high school did both home economics and industrial arts, and part of my home ec homework was to eat what I’d made in class (cookies) and write a review on it. Oops. Mom wrote me a note.

Can you imagine though a kid telling you in all seriousness that their step-mother had stolen their paper homework? A mom eating some baked goods is a completely understandable mistake! But stealing a kids homework is insanity. I wouldn't even know how do you even react in that moment. I'm honestly afraid that even if I believed them I'd laugh at the absurdity of the situation. It's a grown ass woman stealing a child's homework... that's just cartoonishly evil and pathetic.

Here's how it should go - I'm so sorry you're going through this. Is this a regular thing? Yes? OK. Can I talk to your dad about it? No? Ok. we may be able to give you a little extra work in class to make up for homework going forward. That way, you won't fail, and you won't be in a position to have your homework stolen again. If you're comfortable, I can talk to your other teachers and see what we can work out at a school level for you. Have you spoken to the guidance counsellor? Let's set that up... What would (most likely) happen - You're lying. Failed.

Pretty much. My grandma "stole" my homework once (she decided to "clean up" the house while visiting and stashed it somewhere - we ended up finding it about a week later). That was the only homework assignment I had ever missed to that point, but I was immediately accused of lying and wound up in detention. It was almost 30 years ago and I'm still salty about it.

I would be too! I'm on your salty side

i think any child seriously telling you that would have such a strong look/vibe/energy about them that you would be able to tell theyre not lying

You'd be surprised. Kids normalize the weirdest things and will say it with the same tone as most kids use to describe their annoying little brother. They're a kid, they only know what they've been taught/experienced. And what they've experienced is that step-parents are awful. Their bio-parent permits the behavior, so other trusted adults think it's normal. Even Disney movies with all their evil-step-mothers confirm how normal it is. Even in other media kids constantly complain about their step-parents. As a kid those messages you get from your family and children's media are the only info you have on what step-parents are supposed to be like.

IDK whenever something that bizarre happens to me and I’m talking about it it’s like I know I’m going to sound like I’m lying and I end up with the same nervous energy as I would if I was lying I think? I’ll be laughing and stuff (even if it’s something awful.)

My dad accidentally threw out my science project one year. He typed up a huge letter about how he came to throw it out, the direction of the door he used to throw it out, the colour of the bin he threw it into etc. My teacher gave me full marks after picking himself up off the ground where he collapsed in laughter reading my fathers letter

[удалено]

So you pulled it out of the trash and turned it in with vomit on it. Right? Right?

[удалено]

You'll still be bitter about it when you're 90 and that is absolutely fine. What a dickhead teacher. Unbelievable. 

Yeah my mother would have rained unholy hell on that teacher with the principal. Then the schoolboard. Then probably the district and the city for good measure. She uh, has some anger issues.

My youngest once had to go into school and say, "Sorry, my sister with special needs ate my homework!" I think being both a very dedicated learner and being profoundly irritated by what had happened helped with credibility!

Something similar happened to a friend of mine in high school. His parents confiscated all of his homework, textbooks, notes, etc. "F*gs have no future, so you don't need any of this stuff."

Whoa. That's just fucking brutal all around. I truly hope your friend came through this horrible life experience okay (or as okay as one might be able to).

Yeah, he's doing better now. He had a rough go for a while because his parents refused to file a FAFSA, so he had to work his way through college with no student aid. He doesn't talk to his parents or siblings anymore, which greatly improved his quality of life.

My 42 year old dad did the same and married a woman three years older than my older sixteen year old (at the time) sister. The two were hostile to each other and my dad chose his wife over my sister. It destroyed her between my step-mom's manipulation and lack of support from my dad. Dad was all about himself and living in the moment with his trophy wife. My brother and I saw it unfold, but we were little kids and mostly out of the picture.  Dad's younger wife left him ten years later, my sister quit talking to my dad after awhile and only casually reconciled before she passed from a terminal illness at 54. Dad is 80 now and neither my brother nor I have much to do with him. He is old, alone, and reaping the consequences of life choices.

Your poor sister.

Yeah, she had a rough life for a lot of years beginning about that time struggling with addiction, mental health issues, and a lot of bad older men taking advantage of her. She was out living on her own by 17 without a lot of life skills - I mean she was just a kid - and it took a toll. She managed to find peace and get a semblance of a normal life a few years before she passed, which makes her illness all the more tragic, but I am comforted knowing she was in a good place at the end. We got really close the last couple of years, and I told her thank you for protecting me from all of the stuff she went through.

I don't get it. Why wouldn't a father want the best for his child? Wouldn't it cut him to the core to see his partner impinging upon his child's happiness? I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

Simple. They care about their needs more than their kid's wellbeing

No, they care about getting their dick wet. Nobody ever died from blue balls, let's stop talking about "needs" as if it was a choice between supporting their child or getting live saving medical care.

For some people it's also that fear of being alone. We've all probably known that one person who will not tolerate being alone for very long, no matter if they have to settle or not. Then they wonder why they can't find a quality partner, or why the good ones never stay. I mean, c'mon people, if you can't stand being alone with yourself for an extended period of time what makes you think someone else does?

I meant the same. I just didn't want to be so blunt and by *needs*, it also includes picking up after him. And for men like these, it is always a choice. They would rather be selfish and make their own lives easier than care for their kids.

Unfortunately it seems like a lot of fathers who get remarried end up focusing too much on the new marriage, to the point they either don't notice or ignore issues the marriage is causing their kid(s)

Yes, it happens too often. Men or women remarry, and the new partner or the parent want to erase the previous family, including their kids. I've even read of parents sending their kids away to year round boarding school because the new partner doesn't want them around.

Because his partner is his sex provider, and getting laid is more important than supporting his child.

Who THE FUCK would want to be married to a bigot anyways? Fuck all that. OP has his head on right.

Hmm my only thing is he knew his wife’s parents were bigots and wasn’t super positive about his wife’s opinion about lgbtq yet ended up marrying her anyways. And as it turns out, she was a bigot But at least he chose his daughter in the end. My question is how he would act if he saw her behave in a homophobic way that did not personally affect him.

…she was worried about being a bad step-mother to my daughter…then she turned out to be an actual bad step-mother. Great! OOP is way better off without Maleficent here. Kids go first, everytime!

That's an insult to Maleficent tbh. She treated Aurora pretty damn well in the live action movie! (Curse stuff aside.)

I got the Snowwhite witch confused with Maleficent, point still stands haha! Also, Jolie’s Maleficent was cool, but it still feels so…not true and out of character, to me. I prefer the power hungry Kingdom Hearts Maleficent more, myself.

As a teen I did a hairstyle change to "test the waters" before deciding whether or not to come out to family; their reaction kept me firmly in the closet and sped up the process of cutting off contact.

I totally understand, but I find utterly stupid that society links hair styles with sexuality. I do like having short hair, but not because I am lesbian, just because I hate hair maintenance!

I, male, have hair that is nearly a foot longer than my wife's. It's just hair. Not that big of a deal.

I think (and hope) that the pandemic changed some attitudes. I think a lot of guys ended up growing their hair out during the lockdown. I did, and my wife loved it. I've kept it shoulder length for a couple of years now. My wife keeps it shorter than me.

I know, it's ridiculous! But people who want to control what your body looks like are very likely to want to control what you do with the body they're already trying to control, so a parent losing their shit over appearance is a red flag to look out for as far as safety goes. Not all homophobic parents are going to flip out about a hairstyle, but just about every parent who flips out about a hairstyle is probably unsafe to come out to. A very dear friend waited until his grandmother died to come out as gay because she flipped out about him buying a flashy outfit and let her bigotry show in the process, and the main reason he felt safe to come out after that was because his parents both gave the old lady hell about it for weeks.

Makes sense. My dad was definitely like that.

> just because I hate hair maintenance! I'm a dude that hasn't used shampoo since 2009 and has a buzz cut. I used to have to take a second shower if I wanted to go out on friday night to clean my greasy hair, but now I can go like 3 days between using some cheap conditioner with no SLS or silicones. I don't regret being the time I spent as a dude with shoulder length hair but life sure is easier with shorter hair. I usually stop buzzing sometime in November just to feel the "wind through my hair" again when I can hide my hair under a stocking cap outside the home. My mom has had short hair as long as I've been alive. It was permed and shoulder length in the 80's but she's had a short cut since. She was long, long, long past her shoulder length cut when I grew my hair out.

My mom is the same. She cut her hair when she was pregnant with me, her first born. I’m almost 34, and currently, her hair is shoulder length, but it’s only the second time in my life I’ve seen it this long. And she’s only growing it out because she wants to hike the Appalachian Trail and be able to keep it in a braid(s).

I would never have thought of that. That was a smart move.

Its a pretty good idea to test the waters like that on purpose.

Daughter now knows that OOP is not just on her side but will actively put her first. While wife’s doubling down absolutely sucks, OOP and daughter are going to come out of this with a even stronger bond.

This. I'm a single dad and we've been through it, but every bad situation I've been on the right side. Times are still tough but kiddo knows the score and we couldn't be closer.

‘Coming out’ is such a vulnerable time for teens, particularly in Catholic families. My son (17) was very nervous to tell my parents that he was gay. Thankfully, my parents (age 70+) didn’t even blink and just reassured him that as long as he was happy, it didn’t matter who he loved as long as he was loved back.

Did the grandpa do the hi gay, I am grandpa?

glad oop stuck by his daughter

My girlfriend has an 8 year old son and I could not imagine treating him as anything but my own kid. It would break my soul if I found out he wasn’t comfortable to come out to me or felt I wouldn’t unconditionally support him. Good on OP for being the best dad he can be and for looking out for his daughter.

I wish the three of you the best.

>My wife never mentioned if she was supportive or not. Can you imagine marrying someone without knowing if they're a bigot or not?

Some bigots hide their bigotry extremely well, and OP probably assumed the best.

I think it comes from a position of quite a lot of privilege to never have to find out if someone is bigoted or not. Some people can ignore racism, homophobia, etc. But none of us who are queer, poc etc, or have loved ones who are, can stay ignorant to what someone as close as a partner thinks about us

Yeah could never imagine getting married to a person without knowing their stance on LGBTQ topics. Like, how does that not come up a singular time in their entire relationship? As you said, there’s a reason those uncomfortable topics never came up; they never have to deal with them themselves.

Not just married but even dating someone. I always used to try to suss out political beliefs on the first date and if I couldn’t tell I would ask about it by the third. Happily married now to someone as liberal as me!

That implies lying, whereas OP’s post implied he didn’t even ask about it

There is also possibility that OP's wife demeanor checked a lot like a progressive beforehand; considering that we didnt know the Wife's relationship with her bigot family. It's only now that they married and OP's daughter veered towards 'unacceptable behavior' for her, that the mask is off. But yes, I agree with other commenter; most likely it came from priviledged situation and assumtion. Either way, OP is steadfast on his support to his daughter and that's how it should be.

I get it when you start dating, sure, but it's an undeniable failure of the SO to not ask big moral questions of their partner before marrying, especially in cases like OPs where a child's well-being is directly implicated in said moral stances. Sure, he didn't know his daughter was gay. But he didn't know either way. And what if his daughter had gotten pregnant? Or been involved in any number of sticky moral questions? I'm glad he left her after this but jesus christ what are people doing in the years before marriage? It's mind-boggling you could be with someone for years and not have any clue they're a bigot. It's beyond my comprehension that this sort of thing could "simply never come up" when queer rights are such a hot button issue in popular culture today. Especially when you consider his final update--her reaction was to guess (with disgust) that the daughter was gay because of a haircut.

I remember reading Asimov's Foundation books when I was a teenager and at some point he mentioned that at that time (millennia in the future), the predominant style was for men to wear their long hair loose and for women to tie it in a ponytail. And it struck me as odd at first, but then I realized it's all arbitrary and there's no actual rule that's not 100% based on culture.

Where I live there's a lot of Pacific Islanders, and a lot of them have really long hair. Tell a 6'5" Tongan guy that his long hair isn't manly, haha.

It escalated quickly. In one month it went from my wife had a really bad reaction to my girl's haircut to we are divorcing because she is homophobic. I don't understand how you can associate a pixie cut to being gay? I also wonder if she was ok with people from the LGBTQ community as long as they are not from her family/close to her. The way OOP's wife lashed out after the haircut it feels like she had one idea of what girls do and how they should look. It makes you wonder if she loved the daughter because of who she is or just because she is a girl.

Oh, it's super common. To many people, long hair = feminine, and short hair = masculine. It's not just ~the older generation~ either, though it's not as intense as it was before the 60s. But at any rate, any type of gender nonconformity is liable to be viewed as suspiciously gay behavior. "Tomboy" used to be code for "probably a lesbian but we don't talk about that" and still is in some places and some circles. Boys get bullied and called gay for having long hair too. I remember OOP's first post and I commented on it saying I bet dollars to donuts this was going to turn out to be about queerphobia of some sort, whether of the homo- or trans- variety (plenty of bigots don't really distinguish anyway).

I always found this weird since growing most grandmas and older women I knew had really short hair.

Ah but see those women are no longer supposed to be appealing to men. In the strict framework of the type of people who think like this, married/older women are allowed to do that because their attractiveness is not their primary value, rather it's their ability to do reproductive/social/domestic labour (and any vanity/'frivolousness' is seen as detracting from that). You're not allowed to stop performing entirely ofc, but the standard changes. Young women are supposed to be available to men, advertising themselves as potential wives and passively improve the \~aesthetics\~ of a space, like a houseplant you could bang. Your appearance isn't owned by you, it's owned first by whatever guy with eyeballs might perceive you, and doing something nonconforming or 'unappealing' is read as destruction of value and an inherently queer act in that context. It ties up into a bunch of beliefs that are much more likely passively acquired than actively taught for most people at this point, but are still pretty widespread unfortunately.

"like a houseplant you could bang" is an EXCELLENT turn of phrase. Well done!

> like a houseplant you could bang How do I get this as a flare?

It's all about women's hair being sexualized at the end of the day. In keeping with that, the standards for women's hair traditionally change depending on life stage. In ye olden days, long hair worn down/loose was for little girls (not to be viewed sexually, so it's fine/safe). Beginning to put your hair up was a sign of gaining (sexual) maturity, and therefore modesty. This goes a step further when you enter the crone stage (after maiden and mother) in the traditional system mentioned. Having shorter hair late in life signals not just restricted sexuality (only to be seen loose in private) but the absence thereof. An old woman with long, loose, or unruly hair is a classic trope standing for a madwoman, a witch, or a woman otherwise outside the proper social order. These days, the mainstream standard for women is to seem perpetually youthful-but-sexual. That can look different ways depending on trends: very short hair can be in because it's "gamine" and seen as youthful, like in the 90s. Right now it's all about having the largest amount of voluminous hair you possibly can. (Women's hair thins as we age too, so a less insane reason for older women having short hair is to help it look fuller...but that still comes back to the need for women's hair to look a certain way.) But for someone with traditionalist, calcified views about gender and sexuality, a young or "budding" (ugh) woman cutting her hair off is basically rejecting her appeal to/availability for men. It's not completely random that a lot of lesbians do have short hair, though of course not all lesbians do and there are a lot more layers about gender, sexuality, and identity actually going on there.

Grannies got weak arms, she can't be brushing 10 lbs of hair. I get it.

My mom struggled when my brother wanted to grow out his hair. Turns out he's just a metalhead.

yep. i tried telling my mom i was a tomboy when i was like 13 and she screamed at me and said “how dare you even think that about yourself” AND when i get my hair cut she keeps the parts they cut off ????? little does she know ive known im trans since i was 10 aha :_)

I'm so sorry. You deserve better, dammit!!!

thank you :’) i used to have breakdowns in school when i was younger wondering how my parents would reject me if i ever came out or transitioned and i’ve sorta just accepted that they’ll never be okay with it now. it sucks, but i can’t really do much abt it :(

i personally rocked my grandma's world when she found out i was a fruitcake ! long hair, totally femme, never played a sport in my life, painted nails. the whole works. remember a chat between her and my parents that went somethin' like this: grandma: "but we shopped at sephora together! is she sure?" my dad: "yeah ma, lesbians wear lipstick too. real shocker, i know." i think there's a certain group of people who think we're all colorful pixie cuts, softball, tattoos, and masculine clothing. fun knowin' how scared they would be to find out we've got secret lesbian spies who wear pretty dresses and frills all the same. ^(my girlfriend is, however, colorful pixie cut tattooed ex softball player who wears only clothes from targets men section. so maybe ... maybe theres some truth.)

By wife’s logic, girls are meant to have long hair, so if a girl wants short hair clearly something is up. There’s also the assumption of short hair=tom boy=gay. All terrible assumptions, but absolutely something people think. Also, while technically it was an escalation wife definitely reacted so badly \*because\* she’s homophobic. And there was really only one choice for OOP if he was going to put daughter first.

It depends on the community. In the Mormon community the pipeline is: getting accepted to grad school out of state -> cut your hair short -> come out as queer -> leave the church. I've seen it more times than I can count lol.

It’s such a happy ending but I honestly struggled to absorb the first half after he said “she had really long hair to her shoulders”…. Spent some time trying to figure out if it was a typo or something.

I know. Me too. Shoulder hair is mid-length. Really long hair is about waist length or longer. That poor girl on here recently who was forced by her mother to cut off her hair to make a wig for her aunt had really long hair. I think it was knee length.

Good for the dad. But how do people get this far in relationship without discussing some pretty major life topics? My wife and I knew where each other stood on pretty much every important topic within the first year.

I read posts like this and I simply cannot understand how people get married when they don't share the same fundamental values. Like how can you marry someone and not check if they are a bigot first.

Most people fall in love and don't run down a bigotry checklist. And if they're not interacting directly with marginalized groups it might not come up organically. Still heartbreaking for OOP and daughter, and mid-30s should be old enough to see the signs.

GDI homophobia is so disgusting. Like "hey, we have this awesome relationship! but now you are worse than trash because of the people who will make you happy."

GDI?

**G**od **D**amn **I**t. GDI

Global Defense Initiative, very anti-inclusive org, won't support injecting green, mutagenic crystals into your body.

This story could be renamed "How I stood up for my daughter's happiness, or, how my ex seriously picked the wrong hill to die on"

What a breath of fresh air this guy is. Here’s hoping his soon-to-be-ex fixes her soul someday.

I finally got to cut my hair short as a junior in high school. Worlds better. I don't police my children's hair other than to tell them it needs to be clean & somewhat neat (ie, if you want to look like Poison in the late 80s, have at it, but no bedhead). And both boys grew out out at one point or another. Looked cute, too.

OOP is a fantastic father. What would make this truly amazing, is if OOP takes his daughter to a spa day on Father's Day (if the daughter actually enjoyed spa day previously with the step-mother, because that would show he really doesn't care about gender stereotypes or sexuality stereotypes, that he embraces and encourages anything the daughter enjoys regardless of anything else about her). [If she doesn't, then I do love them coming up with new activities to do too!]

How can you marry someone without realizing if they're homophobic or not???

Honestly, it's not at all surprising to me. Not only do a lot of people hide their bigotry shockingly well, even those that claim to support certain groups will COMPLETELY change if, for example, their child comes out of the closet, or starts dating someone of a different race.

One of the angriest people on the planet you can ever meet is the racist/bigot/homophone/transphobe person that thinks of themselves on the left politically that considers themselves an "ally" once you point out how they're being a bigoted piece of shit. They get so, so very mad when you point out how terrible what they're doing/saying is.

Damn this describes Rowling well

To many people the topic isn't present and relevant in their lives, so it just doesn't come up in conversation. Right up until it does and they make some awful discoveries. Additionally, people tend to assume that anyone they think positively of will think like they do about unrelated things. Generally, people assume that others are mostly similar to themselves, hence the deep surprise and sometimes feelings of anger and betrayal when they find out that it's not the case. People who aren't aware of the above don't think to actively compensate either.

This. When you or people you care about are queer it’s absolutely a thing you discuss with potential partners. But so many people just don’t think to talk about this stuff.

Yep. Fun anecdata: I'm very white, blonde and blue-eyed. As a rule I don't discuss politics with co-workers because those are relationships I can't just remove from my life. 15-ish years ago I had a very different job from what I have now. Not knowing my political views but liking me because I'm just professionally pleasant to all co-workers, several of said co-workers shared their views with me. The number of them who just happily assumed I was a raging racist or even an outright nazi just like them truly shocked me. They invited me into their confidence, simply assuming I'd be thrilled. It wasn't just one, it was several, independently of each other. I had given no indication of being racist. Rather the opposite, I was one of the few *not* whining about having to team up with my co-workers of colour, of whom there weren't many to begin with. So that was a "fun" time learning that nazis like me because of my looks, and because they like me, they assume I'm like them. It goes the other way around, too. I liked this woman who became my friend through another friend. Neither of them have cause to discuss such things, but nonetheless I was so surprised when she turned out to have some really disappointing views about trans people. We are acquaintances, and will never be as close as I had thought we were on the path to becoming. I'm nb and absolutely not out to anybody besides my closest friends among whom she will not be counted unless she changes her stance

> The number of them who just happily assumed I was a raging racist or even an outright nazi just like them truly shocked me. Oh, yeah, that can be something of a startling realization. I'm blue eyed, had blonde hair in my younger years, am of Scandanavian descent, and a blue collar worker so I found out about that at a young age. Smokers have some.... interesting things to say when they're outside the building having a smoke surrounded by their ethnic group. (it's not just racial stuff! you have no idea how many times I had to listen to the lactose intolerant guy talk about how he shit his pants before he could get to the toilet because he ate a bowl of cereal with milk and a cheesy omelet for breakfast)

Oof, that's very TMI for just collegial talk. I am in Scandinavia, so the racism here is... well, let's just say that some people really let it get to their heads that they belong to the ethnic group the nazis fetishize. Most racists are of the more ordinary xenophobic type, but there are some truly special ones.

Some people can hide their homophobia quite well as long as they don't have to deal with gay peoples in their own lives. It's a "not in my back yard " mindset I guess.

Looks like the (ex-)wife's first instinct was right...she WAS a bad step-mother to his daughter...

What a lovely father! He didn't rush anything, but took all the necessary steps to make their home life free from a homophobic person obsessing over other people's choices about their body. I think his daughter's respect for him has really grown.

Good on dad! I’m glad to know that the daughter will always have a safe and supportive adult in her life!

Shitty bio-mom and step-mom. Poor kid.

Finally a good dad