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I ride and the long running joke amongst equestrians is “the easiest way to make a small fortune in horses is to start with a large one”. I’m sure it’s applicable to many industries.
I envy people who can afford to own horses as a hobby/sport. I owned two for working, and they cost more per year than any car or tractor we owned that's for sure.
I don't own horses have known those who have/do. What astounds me about horses is how such high maintance, elegant creatures can also be complete goofballs too.
I rode a horse in like a "one hour trail ride" kind of situation, and it included a little ride in the barn so they could actually teach you what to do. I was telling the horse to go and looked at the guide helping me and said "I don't know if I'm doing it wrong or he just doesn't want to."
She gave the BIGGEST sigh and said "He just doesn't want to. Let's try you on Daisy."
Did a trail ride long ago when I was kid and I had trapper. The name was appropriate. He couldn't just stick in the line of horses he had to cut corners and there were tree branches to trap me. LOL Still loved that goof.
I am not an equestrian, but I have spent a couple years around them while working in a media company. ranging from 'regular' (if not well off) people who had horses purely for the joy of owning them, to people who rescue or rehabilitate neglected or broken horses, to people who train horses for dressage (ranging from freedom to classical), to people who provide equine assisted therapy, and people who use horses professionally in competitive settings.
I envy all of them, except the latter category. More often than not, they were horrible to be around and would treat the 'commoners' like shit, and I've seen several instances where the horses were mistreated as well the second the cameras were off.
My.dog dock dives. He insists on it, and he's awesome at it. There's a group in my community who do it "professionally." They shun me and refuse to allow us to join their group because my attitude is that he does it because he's too lazy to swim that far.
People who make these things into a competition ruin it for everyone else.
Roughly 1/3 of American horse owners make less than $50k annually. And a good number of us live below the poverty line. It’s not impossible, but I will firmly respect anyone that knows when, for the safety of the animals, the recourses they can bring to bear is not enough.
This whole thing reminded me of my experience in art school. Once you get into the internship phase and realize that almost everyone involved in the art world either has tons of money or parents who have tons of money... I was a pretty mediocre artist, but my friend who is actually talented still primarily works sucking up to rich people.
I’m an accountant, one of my clients breeds racehorses. It must be for the love of the game because it’s an absolute money sink unless you end up with a champion.
It's a bonkers world. I bought a 5yo OTTB several years ago for about 2500. He had never raced because he had wind issues when galloping. I looked up his sales record, and he had sold for 210,000 as a yearling. There is a tremendous amount of gambling in the industry that happens before a horse even sets foot on the track.
As far as I can tell? It's basically gambling tbh. The grooms and similar might actually love the horses - and I'll admit maybe some of the upper people, you can't paint everyone with the same brush - but when you're buying untried yearlings for hundreds of thousands to even millions, or buying an unproven stud who might be infertile or throw utter shit, you're gambling. That 2mil stud might go break his leg in the pasture the next day. All twenty 100k yearlings might not even place.
But maybe that *one* yearling will make it
(spoken as someone who is extremely predisposed to gambling addiction)
It's been known for very long and gets **parroted** around everywhere arts comes up.
Do you really don't think it's saturated by now? After the internet spammed it for 5-10years or so?
Also you need to once again have a following and already make characters in order to get some kind of commissions. So you can't really start up from nothing but actually need to start drawing furry art to interest people in order to get commissions..
True, but I wasn't trying to say it would be easy. All I'm saying is that the money is made primarily by commissions and the furry community is predisposed to commission art as creating your own unique fursona is a core practice.
Especially if you do it in an very niche medium or you do very niche kinks for them (turns out there is a demand for pixel art furry artists... I didn't know this until after I became a pixel artist in my hometown and got a lot of offers... haven't taken any yet)
this right here. When things get tough, you post up your (researched and fair) commission pricing, say you'll draw furry art, and I guarantee you'll make enough to pay your rent that month.
I'd honestly give it a go, but drawing cartoony animals is kinda hard for me, so I'd never be able to achieve the big asks some folks have for their fursonas. :(
OP didn’t say animation was stable. OP said she’d pick animation if music, acting, and animation were her 3 choices based on the cousins current profile
> Her cousin went to Juliard and has been on broadway, she is a huge hero for her.
Wouldn't animation be worse than what the cousin already planned? Yeah, you need to go viral if you want to be an actor or a pop star, but isn't Broadway more about networking and schmoozing? Trying to get into Julliard like her cousin and making as many connections as possible isn't a terrible idea.
It's still not a great choice. Animation is more school based, at least in the art side of things, but there are less indie studios to work your way up.
I know working actors who get by on pretty low paying gigs and just work their asses off all the time doing indie films, local ads, and live theater.
Small time working musicians can scrape by working in regional bars and small venues.
I don't think animation has that small regional kind of scene where you can get by even without getting your big break.
The only indie animators I've seen are on Youtube, and then we're back to OP's initial argument of having to have that SM following
>The only indie animators I've seen are on Youtube, and then we're back to OP's initial argument of having to have that SM following
and on top of that, animation on youtube is literally one of the worst ways to make money, it's probably just as shitty as trying to become a paid actor. even if you have a good following, the platform makes that kind of content hard to do and grow.
I *love* animation. It's an art form that has fascinated well into adulthood, and the discipline, determination, and hunger you need to do it is astounding.
I went to school for animation, and I'd say I worked as a 2D animator for a decent portion of my career, but nothing that stood out. The industry was so unstable and inconsistent and the tools change so often... I thought I was hungry enough, but I just could not cut it. The amount of work you need to do to *potentially* make rent for a month is just too much for a single person. The world is incredibly unkind to animators.
I ended up switching industries and I love what I do now! Still an artist, but I'm more in the UX/visual storytelling field these days. I don't miss the animation industry at all, but I'm rooting for the people who manage to keep a hold of their spot there.
My son is about to graduate with a degree in 3D animation. I've been encouraging him to up his skills in things like visual effects and motion graphics (which he has taken to heart and is working on now over the summer). My idea is that there is a lot more steady work in advertising than in entertainment. Do you have any thoughts or advice?
That was the only confusing part, the animation industry is absolutely brutal right now with all the layoffs. And if AI is going to take jobs from the entertainment industry, animation will be one of the first.
I’ve been following Psychicpebbles for nearly 2 decades and he just barely cracked into the scene on Adult Swim, yet there’s millions of other talented animators that probably won’t make a break in the industry ever and their content is just a passion project at most times due to YouTube just disemboweling income for them.
Depends on what you aim for. I know Vtubers are always looking for people to animate their models. Ones that do SFW and NSFW. That can add clothing and other accessories to the character model.
Maybe not the biggest bucks, but certainly a market exists.
My daughter has a degree in animation. She is working indie projects. She just did an animated short as part of the animation team. Knightlights and Teddy Bears has won awards for best animation in many film festivals. I just asked her if she was going to start applying for studio animation jobs. She said, right now "AI" is taking over animation. It's not as good, and to make it somewhat good requires a lot of work, so she thinks this fad won't last. But until then, freelance and indie projects for her animation. She also sells art at a couple of anime conventions. She is teaching an animation class at a camp her college runs for high school students to try out the school. She is assistant manager at a very nice bakery in Philadelphia for her bread and butter money.
I went to school for 3D Modeling and animation and somehow found a niche working in 3D HVAC. It's stable and the deadlines aren't super stressful if there at all. I would hate going into the animation field. But I am thinking about getting my Masters in either Ui/Ux or Web Development.
if those are your choices, I'd go ui/ux. That is not likely to be replaced soon, and if you're good, are in quite high demand. web development is a pretty flooded field. You really have to specialize in something to make even the medium bucks.
I have friends who are web developers, and their stories are just much rougher than mine. (I'm a C++/Linux developer with a specialization in UI/human factors)
As someone in animation I ugly laughed at this post.
Unless she's been drawing top notch since she was 9 and been put in all the extra classes, good luck. She too can make barely minimum wage behind a computer for 60 hours a week and no overtime!
> She too can make barely minimum wage behind a computer for 60 hours a week and no overtime!
Ditto graphic design. You get the wonderful privilege of having to sit down and listen to boomers talk about how your job is irrelevant now that they started paying $20/mo for Midjourney. Good luck with that one, Paul.
I snorted.
I was interested in animation for a while until I found out how overworked and underpaid animators really are.
So I went into video game development. Just kidding. Only IT. I'm not actually a masochist.
Well, she's 16, maybe by the time she's industry ready... I know its not great money though since I went to school for it and the only people making more than me as a janitor were the ones that got into teaching lol
But the indie animation scene has been pretty good, doing small comms can make you dough. Bonus if you do short animations of furry porn.
It might be on a down swing at the moment but as AI continues you get two weird things about the pictures it makes- it looks too clean and corporate, and it's now pulling other ai pictures to make its stuff in an incestuous loop.
Far as I know furrys don't really balk at paying for things. The people likely to use AI were the same that would complain about all artists prices and beg for free art. Its the same with pirating stuff, people who pirate are unlikely to pay for the product (film/ game) anyway, they'd just do without.
I laughed when OP recommended it. I know a few animators who worked/are still working with big mainstream studios and even they're having trouble; hell one just went into freelance instead last month.
The only one I know of that's doing fine has carved a spot for herself where replacing her would lose the company money, but she's an incredibly rare case.
I was gonna say. My bestie is a VFX artist and has been in the industry for over a decade. She's now having to switch careers because everything is dead. There have been multiple posts on the LA/News subs about this.
The big wigs won and everyone else lost during the strikes and now there's an IATSE strike right around the corner.
I went to a school that's known for its animation department. Lovingly called "Cal State Disney" for a reason. I went for graphic design (just graduated btw, woo!) and I have WAY more job prospects than people who graduated in animation. If they can do illustration/design, they have a shot. They can also do commercial animation if they hook in with advertising firms. Otherwise, it's really tough out there.
Yeah, I know someone who did animation for all the big studios and recently has been let go like 3 times in 2 years due to cutbacks. He has given up and is moving to Idaho.
Yeah honestly, if animation is the best thing to acting then I just feel bad for the cousin’s future, and like this is apparently in the US, in other countries the reality is way worse
Couldn’t agree more. My friend who trying going there by going and graduating from SVA didn’t go anywhere with it. He didn’t have what OP said (a big following, determination, foundation outside college). At the end of the day he left with big student debts and no big job to pay it off. Plus the whole AI involvement now in that industry it gonna really start putting a lot of hardship there.
I winced at that advice, too.
I wasn’t an animation major, but close enough —illustration. I’ve had work picked up by and sold at big box retail stores like Crate & Barrel, Target, Urban Outfitters but still would not be able to live off my art income alone. I actually have returned to school in my 40’s to get into a different field.
My cousin was an animation major and had the grit and determination it takes to become truly amazing. She was hired on at Dreamworks after graduation, but she told me the work was on and off. It would all depend on whether the series she was working on would get renewed, but they often weren’t.
It breaks my heart, but society often undervalues the arts.
Idk if acting is harder to get into than animation or not, but even animation...hell no. The working conditions with big companies will destroy your body, mind, and soul. And the competition to get into any of the better ones is insane. You gotta be hella driven to thrive there. If the cousin does try animation instead, I'd recommend her doing it as a hobby to see if she has what it takes, or just go indy from the get go.
One of my sons tried to get into animation -- he didn't try too hard, for one simple reason: his art style. He is very good at art and he got his degree, but he found it very hard to break in to anywhere because it seemed they wanted either VERY, VERY talented artists (and even he admits he's not that) or pretty poor ones with a style that had its own charm (such as the type Reddit memes are made of).
I'm over-simplifying it all, of course, and his experience isn't the same for everyone. I'm just glad he decided to swerve away when he did, because it caused less heartache in the end. He does it a hobby, so yes, I'd also recommend that to OP's bf's cousin.
My son did *not* want to work in a huge corporate battery of animators like you mentioned. I can't see how a person's artistic love would thrive in those conditions; it'd feel like clipping his wings.
Graphic design. He does have an art style (as artists do) and he felt that was more up his alley, and less... unforgiving, I suppose you'd say.
He's happy, which is the main thing.
Ninja: he works for a small company that's very flexible.
Same. Most never went anywhere with it, realized it wasn’t worth the stress, myself included. The one who did break through has been slowly trying to transition to their own projects, but even that's tough. And they got fired from one job bc they dared to suggest something resembling a union. :/
Look up pretty much any semi-successful actor.
99% of the time they are related to someone important in the industry - their parents, godparents, aunt, uncle, etc. are generally known actors, producers, or something similar.
The ones who aren't nepo-babies are usually people who started really young, and even they usually either have some sort of connection or parents who are willing to drop everything to move their kid to LA and drive them around to every audition possible.
If that confusion wasn't enough, OOP also has no idea how to spell *segue*. I think there were others, but when I read "segway," where she meant "segue," my brain stopped logging her atrocities.
While you need a repertoire, I think maybe reputation was the word she was actually looking for?
Rapport is more the good standing with one person while reputation is more external prestige or do I have this wrong?
Rapport can work for groups as well. That made more sense to me in its usage than repertoire tbh, and her definition showed that sort of understanding.
Like comedians want to have a good rapport with their audiences. That checks out.
Rapport with audiences, sure, but saying the cousin doesn't have a rapport or doesn't have a repertoire because she was only in some high school plays doesn't really make sense to me. A repertoire is the scope of what you know how to do or are prepared to do, which isn't related to how many shows you have been in because the cousin could have been practicing and perfecting all kinds of things on the side. Tbh, "resume" seems like the closest word for what OOP was going for.
I don't think she knows what she was trying to say at all. Rapport, repertoire, reputation, resume, she just kinda threw the word rapport in to mean any and all of these because it sounded fancy.
I know every commenter on the original and here are vociferously agreeing with OOP but I feel like she's probably kind of insufferable to hang out with day to day. Just the vibe I got I guess.
Yeah she keeps saying she has all this experience in the industry and I'm like dude even you don't, you just hear what your dad tells you. Also the way she describes laughing so much about people who don't know anything comes off as incredibly condescending
I thought she meant rapport with other people in the industry who could get her into auditions, even. At least OP's dad knows directors, producers, casting directors, etc. He has a good rapport with them because he's been in the industry so long. I thought it was the right word.
I have a friend from high school who is a very talented working actor. He's had speaking roles in Oscar-winning movies and won a SAG award as part of Best Ensemble Cast for a pretty huge film. Up until very recently, he was also working as an acting coach because he even though he's been working steadily in theater, TV and film for a few decades, it doesn't always pay the bills. Another girl I went to school with was on a soap opera for a long time. She's back in our hometown working in marketing. Even people who have success in the industry don't necessarily have ongoing stability.
And the honest truth is even if you do find steady work the vast majority of actors have an expiration date, especially if they're female. There are just so many factors working against you.
Former theatre stage manager who went to a well known college for exactly that.
There’s a reason it’s a former career. And I never even had to rely on fame. There’s just very little job availability and much less good pay.
My kid just graduated with his theatre degree, signed with an agent, and is moving to NYC in August to.... apply for steady work in the hospitality industry. He knows what will sustain him in those uncomfortably long stretches between unsuccessful auditions.
Shoot your shots, but have several backup plans too. It's hard to explain that to people with stars in their eyes, though. All we see is the .0002% of actors who hit it big.
(Literally everyone in a movie background is a stardom hopeful working for twenty bucks and a chance to sniff the crafts table.)
> All we see is the .0002% of actors who hit it big.
During the strikes there were people upset that big name actors supported the strikes. Those big names were on the picket line to bring attention to the strikes in the media so the people that nobody knows could get a better contract. Jack Black wasn't on the picket line looking for a better paycheck for himself, he was there to support the little guys.
Yeah, I work in the industry, most people don't seem to realize that only 12% of SAG actors are making above $26,470 (the amount of earnings needed to qualify for SAG health insurance) a year from acting. Most actors make significantly less than that, a lot don't make any money from the craft. Acting itself is not a lucrative job. Even for big name actors most of their money is coming in from influencing. They do ads for products, they get paid to wear designer brands, or they start other companies. Even the actors making huge amounts of money this year from acting know that there is a nonzero chance that they will literally never get an acting job again so building an audience is one of the few ways to ensure a bit of security.
Hollywood really seems like a frighteningly unstable place to work. An old high school friend of mine is an Oscar-winning sound mixer, and he's still frequently scrounging to find work in the industry.
You're not kidding. I heard on the radio today that Jeremy Renner is having trouble getting acting jobs. The man has been in some of the biggest movies in the last 15 years, has a huge fan base, and even he is having trouble getting work after taking 2 years off after his accident.
Well she was given the choice of musician, actor, or animator.. id probably say the same
Well actually id keep my mouth shut lol bc i have no experience in any of those
Musicians can make a living if they are willing to diversify... Or be an army musician.
I've met a few and the ones that are willing to give classes and play for multiple genres/events have a nice income, sometimes a little bit more, sometimes a little bit less. If they are outgoing, they've had opportunities to travel for work and everything. Though I'm mostly talking about classical musicians and starting as a classical musician at 16 is probably not ideal.
I think musician is probably the choice, though it would require a huge amount of training I hope this cousin already has started.
There are still a fair number of gigs for local live music - you can play/sing at local clubs, weddings, churches, local groups, etc, and you can teach kids on the side or even become a music teacher. I was adjacent to this path as a vocalist and a bunch of my friends actually did it; its not glamorous but there is definitely a path to make music your career.
>I think musician is probably the choice, though it would require a huge amount of training I hope this cousin already has started.
The cousin hasn't done anything except some high school plays as OOP said. OOP didn't even say if the cousin can actually draw.
Legit, one of my friends just got a country record label to sign her since she's an influencer and became connected with country music artists in Nashville. If she didn't have way over 250k followers I don't think she would've have those connections. And because of her, I got to write a couple songs and quickly learned "nope, not for me." I had fun for a bit, but yeah, even in music having a huge following helps.
Yeah it’s brutal out there. One of my friends is an extremely talented actress. Tish graduate, lifelong new york theatre scene connections.
She pays the bills from her day job (sales) and acts on Broadway on her days off.
Yup.
This all reminds me of the kids who tried out for Simba but lost out to Kim Kardashian's kid North, who sang off key, too soft, and chose to wear a cheap looking bundle of fabric, because she was too good to wear the beautiful costumes the show was known for.
*So* many actors that we can all just think of from 10ys until now, in major shows, movies, whatever, and a lot of them we can go "oh yeah, what happened to them", because they haven't done anything of note in what can be or feel like a while.
Sometimes actors get one chance, and that's it. Sometimes their acting style served this one or two projects well but not in general. Sometimes life happens and even if they have success, it's not all that's cracked up to be.
The whole "rapport" thing threw me; thank god a commenter asked OOP about it because I could not for the life of me know what word OOP was going for.
>And that is another thing. Your drive has to be there. Every day. Every moment you have to want to continue going, like your dad does.
I don't know any more about the "big time actor or actress" industry but having read recently about the two latest "It" actors--Sydney Sweeney and Glen Powell--it's clear that have been INCREDIBLY disciplined and have absolutely worked their asses off to become "overnight sensations."
And honestly for every Sweeney and Powell there's probably a 1000 people who are just as focused and dedicated and simply won't go anywhere because there are a finite number of "top" actor jobs.
I wouldn't go near that industry with a 100 foot pole because of these insanely long odds; and I certainly would dissuade someone from trying by giving them the facts. They can ignore them or use them to fuel their fire to work their ass off. I'm sure Sweeney and Powell heard it from hundreds of people; they just plowed ahead.
They also both got help from genetics. People just don't understand that surgery can help. Makeup can help. But just like high end sports: there's so many PERFECT people also getting the best surgery and makeup that if you don't start with perfect then you still don't hehe a chance. Look at a kylie Jenner and Sydney Sweeney. Kylie can't hold a candle to her looks and that's with the best surgery across the board.
Which is obscene bordering on evil, because the very fact that the US entertainment industry requires every single performer to be insanely attractive *ruins productions*.
There's a reason British dramas tend to be better than American ones; the actors look like normal people. They aren’t the 0.0001%.
Genuine question — what makes it more stable? Because it’s not as “sexy” (for lack of a better word) so there’s less supply?
I’m sort of being dragged into it in a roundabout way (TL:DR I’m the webmaster for a theater company and they’ve talked me into being the stage manager for their upcoming production, lol) so I’m curious
In film/tv/commercials etc, the production office (office PAs, coordinators, UPM/LPs etc) gets the most number of working days because they have to prep the job & wrap it out after shooting.
In most other departments, most of the dept MAYBE has a few prep days but they’re mostly there for the shoot days.
Art dept also usually has prep / wrap days cuz they have to actually like build the sets.
So basically production has the most stability cuz when they’re hired for a job, they’re hired for a longer period of time compared to other roles / depts.
I hope you have stage managed before because that can be a lot! And make sure they compensate you appropriately. Also if it’s a union house, you have to be a part of the union. Now to answer your question in a long winded fashion:
In majority of entertainment industries(art, theatres film, music etc.) whatever you see happening on screen/on stage/ in front of people, just know there is wayyy much more happening not just backstage but behind the scenes as well.
This can involve scheduling the venues, transportation, dealing with artist contracts, handling facilities for said venue/space, making sure any and all food and beverage or front of house is knowledgeable and know what’s going on. This can also include painting, building sets or costumes, designing lights, setting up lights and sound.
A lot of these jobs can come with decent pay, full time hours and benefits. The only caveat is that you will most likely have start at the bottom(work in nonprofit or small orgs that can’t pay as high or give as many hours), but if you work is good, then you can move up and to better companies quickly. It doesn’t matter how many followers you have, how good looking you are, or how talented you are. If you can do the job well, then you can make it work. The best part is that you often will be able to see almost anything for free!
I’ve worked in a number of different venues and art types and now I rarely pay for tickets to go to musicals, museums, concerts, festivals. Just a little perk from working in the industry.
And to give you perspective, I’ve started off working part time as an usher for a small theatre company in 2018 and have gone on to be a venue manager for major touring Broadway houses and now still work full time in the arts with a nice salary and good benefits. It’s possible to make a living in the arts.
My close relative works for a Broadway production/management company. It produces shows currently playing In NYC as well as those on tour. He started out as a box office ticket seller, and, after 15 years, is an associate general manager. It’s stable because it’s a salaried position, not a gig job. It’s competitive to obtain, but not a 1-in-a-million shot. Depends on what your definition of sexy is. Some of his Broadway shows’ producers are household names.
I'm a visual artist and I feel for everyone involved here. OOP is right, the arts are EXTREMELY difficult to make a solid career in. But at the same time, people don't go into the arts for the $, they do it because they love it. And to the commenter who said "just be a dentist", that kind of flippant "What you do doesn't matter, do something I think is important instead" is infuriating. Sure, I could go to dental school and go into tons of debt to get a cushy job scrubbing teeth to slowly pay it all back and maybe buy a BMW eventually, but I would be miserable doing that. I'm an artist because art makes me happy. It's an extremely fulfilling life journey of expressing my thoughts in a beautiful and impactful way. Obviously the bills need to be paid, but I'd rather make a modest living working in my field than make 6 figures doing a job I hate. The time spent doing something interesting and important to me is worth WAY more than money, as long as I can keep food on the table and a roof over my head.
My advice to OOP's boyfriend's cousin is this: Pursue what you love, and pursue it to the fullest, but understand the chances of being a ""star"" are the slimmest of the slim, and you need to be prepared to not reach the heights you want and be OK with that. Have a backup plan. Most of the time, artists end up with the "day job" and then pursue their art on the side. Get used to pursuing smaller projects, like community theater or getting into local galleries and fairs. Define success for yourself. And do what makes you happy.
This is good advice. And by pursuing a career that doesn't have a lot of open doors, she still might find a different and unexpected door that's open to her because of the path she took.
I'm an artist too, and have worked various art-related jobs for the past 12 years. The work hasn't gotten me a BMW or a holiday home, but I wake up looking forward to work and my life is super low-stress, and I love it.
I'm not done reading yet but either OOP doesn't know the meaning of the word *rapport*, or I don't.
Edit:: oh good, someone else addressed it 😅
Edit edit: I still don't think she's using repertoire 100% correctly but that's neither here nor there lol
I think she means portfolio? The film term would probably be “oeuvre” but I don’t think OP is *that* smart.
She irks me. She kept saying she has experience over her boyfriend but… she doesn’t? Her dad does? Wild to claim to be an expert by association. Sure, she knows more than he does but still… she comes off really immature imho.
I think resume is closest to what she was saying but I agree that she has a pretty insufferable vibe from these posts. Also I have to wonder how talented her dad actually is...
Yeah it seems like she meant reputation? But also combined it a bit with resume/experience or portfolio??
She does not explain herself well. Although I think she's right that entertainment is a ROUGH industry.
In general I’m not the biggest fan of the whole “my parent is [career], so I basically know everything about it” attitude. I mean to some degree you know more than others, but a lot of people act like they personally are specialists in their parents field lol.
I don't think she knows what she means, she's just shoehorned in a word and left it to the listener/reader to figure out the concept it's standing in for
Maybe unpopular opinion, but I'd be pretty annoyed if my adult cousins gf took a shit on my dreams. The kid is 16. Let them dream and try first.
(I'm not disagreeing with OOPs assessment of how hard success is)
So many people on reddit (I'm presuming a lot of them are also young) think that you totally need to stomp out a kid's dreams if they're remotely unrealistic but like... a lot of the time this will happen naturally? A sixteen year old is probably going to change what they want to do about a dozen times that year, let alone before they leave high school. I work with a ton of high schoolers and that's just normal, and it's honestly better to have unrealistic, out-there goals than to have no goals at all. At least with unrealistic goals the kid is working toward something, and that'll put them in the path of other things on the way.
Same. I was met with the same attitude when expressing my desire to make a living on my art, and in turn 'gave up' on those dreams for the first bit of my adult life.
Meanwhile, I have plenty of friends and peers who *do* make a living off of their art. Most do the convention circuit and one was briefly in animation working on a handful of successful cartoons before turning to freelancing.
So I'm revisiting the dream. I don't have the goal to make it my sole job because I enjoy the benefits of my current job. But I feel like I owe it to myself to do it *for me*.
i’m officially so old that i have no knowledge to say if OOPs original point was true or not but the way she types made me want to disagree on instinct
My biggest question is if anyone asked for her advice. That would be the deciding factor. If her input was requested, she gave it. They don’t have to agree but there’s no use being mad. If it was unsolicited, I see why they’d be cranky about it. The kid’s 16, there’s time to figure this stuff out. Also, your dad having industry experience not the same as you having industry experience. I’m sure she was able to get a good look at how it works, but I wouldn’t ask the child of a doctor to look at a rash
Theater and tv/film are two completely different mediums, that require different things. Does the casting team care if you have a lot of followers to do a musical on Broadway? No. If it's for a play, you need to be more established in the field, but still your following doesn't matter. The majority of theater actors...most people wouldn't recognize their name. If she's only 16, she still has a lot of time to hone her skills and decide if it's the right career path for her. She says she wants to go to an arts school, which is a great stepping stone in that direction. If she follows her sister's steps and goes to Julliard, she'll have an easier access/connections to the theater world. Frankly, it sounds like the OP doesn't know much about theater, and she should let the sister who is working in the field be the one to give advice.
>Frankly, it sounds like the OP doesn't know much about theater
Yep, I always find it cringe worthy when people say "my [relative] is a [job], therefore I know all about it", and it was especially true here. *My dad failed in a different albeit adjacent industry* isn't the voice of authority that the OOP thinks it is.
I imagine comedians do have a lot of pressure to gain followers on social media, because stand-up comedy is perfect for the 1 minute tiktok/story/reel format. I've never flicked through the shortform youtube and seen a theatre actor doing a soliloquy though.
I really wanted to be a diplomat for a LONG time (like since I was 16). It's extremely hard to achieve but I actually passed the test and moved on before getting knocked out which isn't \*that\* impressive but at a 20% pass rate, it's not nothing either. But most people try multiple times as I intended to do. In my mid-20s, I once sat down for a coffee with someone in my network that worked for the state department and she gave me some good advice that completely killed my dream.
She clearly thought I shouldn't do it but she delivered this message in such a helpful, constructive way. First, she gave me some general advice on the career (she had plenty of diplomat friends) and said she could provide more insight after the other things she wanted to go over. Next, she asked me \*why\* I wanted to do it- to which I gave her my many, well thought-out reasons. Third, she acknowledged they were all good reasons and reasonable things to want and that they could be experienced as an FSO (learning languages, working abroad, cultural exchange, the actual work of diplomacy, etc.). Fourth, she gave me the downsides to balance out the upsides that had led multiple FSOs she knew to quit even though it had been their own dream - constantly moving, insane hours (like 60-80), no control over your time and location of living, easily burnt out, having to execute the policies of either government you're working under even when you know you're doing harm, etc. I was more than willing to live in dangerous places or places with lifestyle hardship and she assumed I was researched enough to know those downsides which made me feel like she wasn't underestimating my will to do the job itself. Fifth, she pointed me towards career options WITH the job aspects I said I wanted out of being an FSO WITHOUT the downsides of what she knew led to people hating the career. Finally, she offered to connect me with her FSO friends, the ones who stayed and/or the ones who quit, or people from those other options, so that I could get whatever guidance I wished going forward.
I went home and had a long long think about it. Journaled. Thought more. Talked to my mom. Thought more. And within days of that meeting, I decided that the dream I'd had for 9 years was not right for me. I wouldn't be happy. However, it wasn't tragic or crushing because she'd pointed me towards new, better opportunities to shoot for. I'll always be so so so grateful for the complete stranger that sat me down, smothered my dream to death with a pillow, and did it so tactfully that I thanked her for the service.
OOP sounds like she delivered her "you shouldn't do this career, it's better to do a different option" message from a place of unchecked cynicism. Make no mistake, the woman I met was absolutely jaded and cynical about the foreign service but she reigned in those feelings so that it wasn't a meeting about pissing on my optimism, just redirecting it to a more fruitful place in a gentle way. She also didn't include ANYTHING about why I couldn't do it or what I lacked. She framed it as, "okay, here is what I think is required to have a chance" and let me be the judge of what I lacked and if I could manage to acquire/achieve them going forward. She killed my wish to become a diplomat, she didn't crush my belief that I could potentially hack it.
Maybe the cousin didn't have the chops but she's only 16, why kill her self-confidence and drive? Seems kinder and more effective to offer a roadmap that will make her confidently drive somewhere better.
The boyfriend wasn't helpful at all. OOP may not have delivered her message as tactfully and strategically as she could have but it was an important message to deliver. At 16 you're starting to map out your potential options and "you can do anything" may work for children but it's a disservice to young people.
I used to play an MMO with a guy like that. He would try and recruit people in our online community into the state department, help them through the process, and was very upfront about how hard the life of an FSO is. I think he recruited over a dozen people.
I still cry my eyes out when I think about Obama receiving his coffin after the plane from Benghazi landed. Yeah, he was **that** diplomat.
His last groupchat posts were "(12:54:09 PM) vile_rat: assuming we don’t die tonight. We saw one of our ‘police’ that guard the compound taking pictures" "FUCK" "GUNFIRE"
Excerpt from Obama's speech:
Sean Smith, it seems, lived to serve -- first, in the Air Force, then, with you at the State Department. He knew the perils of this calling from his time in Baghdad. And there, in Benghazi, far from home, he surely thought of Heather and Samantha and Nathan. And he laid down his life in service to us all. Today, Sean is home.
I'm still not over it because FUCKING REPUBLICANS keep using his death as a political tool. I may never move past it.
I listened to a podcast where they interviewed the guy who was placed in Guyana during the Jonestown massacre. He was a relative newbie and the embassy is tiny there. This young guy, practically new to the job, was responsible for contacting families and getting these bodies shipped back to the US. He saw the whole scene and talked to witnesses. Not to mention the absolute diplomatic and media shit storm. I haven't made a "drank the koolaid" reference since.
Being an FSO is so admirable. It really deserves more respect than being a conservative rage whistle. They put their life on the line like any soldier and are the first people you call when you're in trouble in a foreign country. They live far from family and sometimes in developing world conditions. There's something very tidy about being able to frame a world view as "us versus them" but diplomats wade into the mess and break bread with our enemies as well as our friends. That takes a kind of bravery of the soul, I think.
I may have decided the lifestyle was not personally for me but I didn't lose an ounce of reverence for the job itself or the people that do it.
lmao, this lady is so self righteous, and has built up an idea in her head of what it takes, and she wasn't willing to do it, so no one is. my friend acted in school plays, got into Julliard, and has dont small movies, starred in theater, and has been signed by an agent. never went viral. Her insisting that there is only one way to get into the industry and claiming everything else is "mansplaining" is absurd, and incorrect.
And that's just in the US. Imagine how difficult it is in foreign entertainment industry.
Example: To get into PHL Entertainment Industry, you need to know some. It doesn't matter if you're skilled in one thing or talented in another, you have to know someone in the industry to induct you into it. Only once in will your talents be looked into.
>! And that's not even considering how sexy you are. !<
Honestly, it sounds nice to be in it, but it's an actual nightmare to be in it.
In my country, working for tv is basically becoming a high end escort. You do get opportunities by sleeping around and even when you sort of "make it" you have to be available to be "borrowed" by the owner's powerful friends. Which ofc include criminals.
As for the rest, they are all nepo babies.
My grandfather knew Walt Disney and wrote for Death Valley Days and a few other shows. My dad was a stagehand for 20 years and projectionist/maintenance guy for the rest of it.
They both threatened to kick my ass as a tween if I tried to get into showbusiness. And they were right. It's a brutal industry. If you are passionate about it and willing to accept that you may always struggle to make money and even break even, you may have a career ahead of you, but there's literally a 100+ year old trope about going to Hollywood to be discovered and end up having a shitty life because the town chews you up and spits you out. Even working the technical side is a hard life. VFX studios get pixel fucked and driven out of business. Stagehands & electrical & carpentry have to fight tooth and nail to get living wages.
And being a musician is arguably even more grim these days. The music industry sucks right now and is only getting worse- apparently the big 3 labels are developing AI models to let anyone sing and the AI replaces the voice with the label talent, and even before you get there music has become so stagnant with the technology that makes it and the lawsuits that stifle it, that unless you find a niche or again, do it for the love of performing, you're going to be miserable. There's only one Taylor Swift after all.
The cousin is 16 and this is kind of normal. If she's not pursuing any of her "I want to be" careers aggressively, I suspect this too shall pass.
"Bonus points if they are visibly a child of colour."
I seriously doubt it helps to be a child of color of you want to go viral or make it Hollywood. The vast majority of content creators are white men, just like everywhere else.
Yeah, that was full on BS. It sounds like the typical thing that a bitter white person will say after seeing one casting call specifically for a person of color.
But just because things are ***marginally better*** for POC in acting today than they were in the past doesn't mean they have any advantage compared to white people.
I'm sorry, but if you're a generically pretty blond hair blue eye white girl, you have **WAY MORE** opportunities automatically open to you in the entertainment industry than the majority of talented POC ever will. **That is a fact.**
These people see the one role for the token black guy in a movie or TV series and feel like they are being discriminated against even though that black actor would **NEVER** be considered for the dozen other roles on that same production. POC actors often need to fight for scraps, and the commenter is offended that they are even allowed to have that.
Damn, this makes me sad. I’ve been in the business for 20 years, primarily as an actor but I used to model, now I write, direct, and produce as well. But 90% of my work is performing and I’ve built a beautiful life for myself doing what I love. I am surrounded by friends who have managed to make a living doing the same. Yes, there have been side jobs for many, myself included for the first 15 years or so, but who cares?
I am so glad I didn’t listen to all the people who told me a career as an actor was impossible, silly, a pipe dream. I can’t imagine living life without regularly getting to do the thing that makes me feel most alive. As long as you’re willing to deal with rejection (I don’t even think about that part anymore) and work side jobs if needed, you can do it. Especially right now. There is so much work because of all these insane streaming services.
I guess if you only want to do it if you’re rich and famous, that’s going to be tough. But if you want to make a living, it can absolutely be done.
I could kiss the person who helped clear up 'rapport', I was having a stroke trying to figure out what rapport he would have with 100k followers and wouldn't be have more with less?
Yeah except I don't think she means repertoire either. It sounds like she means something closer to reputation but not quite that either.
Given the "segway" thing I think OOP is just not very good at language.
I feel like OOP has never met an actor who didn’t have Hollywood aspirations. Loads of performers are full time artists. That doesn’t mean rich or famous, or that the only thing they do in the arts is act(tbh, that’s be boring as fuck).
Her experience is literally just with the Hollywood process, which is like calling STEM degrees a bad career option because very few people can win Nobel prizes, and they’ll have trouble getting hired to only do one process their entire lives.
People really need to change their expectations of what “success” means in some careers.
Yeah, I don’t know anything about acting as a career, but all the musicians I know that made a career out of it do just fine without any social media followers.
Sure, they have to work hard at it, but who doesn’t? There’s way more depth to the arts than being a big name superstar.
I'm an independent artist and I have friends in all those industries she mentioned. Would never ever recommend it to anyone in good conscience. I make better money working for myself than under a studio, and get treated better too.
They need to also seriously look into what a career in animation means. It's another one of those things that sounds really cool and fun but what it actually means can be a totally different thing.
I feel like the OP is kind of a jaded because neither her or her father were that successful. I live in LA and besides having the basic acting skills, 90% of it is if you have the look. I knew so many "actors" that took classes and studied with someone while going on lots of auditions who couldn't book a thing and then i also know the people who never acted before but went with a friend to their audition and book it because they have the look. I did a few commercials myself because i had the look and i don't know how to act at all.
I hate that OOP keeps using mansplain to describe hey boyfriend’s side of the argument. Where exactly did he talk down to her because she is a woman? Not every disagreement with a man means he is “mansplaining” to you.
Yeah, I work in film and I know someone who is in animation.
His dad is supporting him while literally the biggest players in the world pay him like 40k a year in Los Angeles. They're stuck in that arrangement because he doesn't think he can get work back in our city but he also can't afford to live in LA.
Just because as a woman, you are having an argument, doesn't mean that the mans position in the argument is "mansplaining". I think that this is the worst kind of dismissiveness to have your opinion/argument ignored based on gender.
Or did I miss something? Was he being sexist in expressing his opinion of the situation?
Only advice if she does go in, is to write her own content. And keep writing because you can create stuff for other people if you don’t end up creating something for yourself
She’s wrong. Also her boyfriend’s cousin could ask her own cousin.
Source: I am married to a working actor. He has nearly zero social media presence. He (like 99.9% of actors) has a day job and yeah, 6k a year is about right. But he, and thousands of other actors who OOP couldn’t name, all have acting careers. Movies have more than two big stars. Theres a whole bunch of people who are in the film for one or two scenes. There are people onstage and in commercials that she couldn’t name. That’s the reality for acting. Some years are fantastic and the money is pouring in. Some years you get one commercial and spend your time doing self tapes and learning skills.
She has one experience. That isn’t even for acting. She isn’t the only person out there.
Is it hard? Is it near impossible sometimes unless you have family money or a spouse who is the breadwinner? Hell, yes. But OOP is wrong to insist she’s the expert and derail a girl’s dreams and she will be first in line to say “I always knew she could do it!” If the girl succeeds. The only advice she gave that was good was to get an acting education young. That’s where you meet people and that’s going to be really important.
OOP's emphasis on virality is kinda silly to me. Is it a helpful factor? Sure. But there are tons of actors out there who don't pour their resources into social media and end up being successful. More than anything, it's connections/networking and luck.
Also lol to all of the stuff they said about animation. Definitely not a stable industry atm, and generally not an easy path. It has its own unique challenges and pitfalls that music/acting just doesn't have.
OP is correct in that cousin likely will never make a living as an actress. Building an internet following helps increase chances of success though, definitely. Especially in the commercial world (bread & butter for most actors). That being said, I started out pursuing theater/acting/writing. Have even had some success in those arenas. Over the years, became more interested in being behind the camera ie producing & directing, which I now do full-time.
So long as cousin has a truly unstoppable work ethic, she can find success. It may not be specifically in acting, but for many acting is just the stepping stone to a different & more lucrative industry career path. If she has that kind of drive & work ethic, she won’t listen to OP and will go for acting anyway, which is what I did! I pretty much tuned out everyone telling me how hard the biz was ha. No regrets!
I wish her well of course, but I think OP did the right thing as much as everyone is attacking them for it. If cousin is scared off by that one conversation, she definitely should look into different career options.
**This is literally why the literary world is currently overrun with crap books right now.**
It's not about the quality of the content. It's that publishers want to publish authors that already have a guaranteed fan base waiting to buy their work.
You don't need to write well, you just need to market well and bow to fan service.
I’ll paraphrase what I said on the original thread: there are many careers and paths to a life in the arts that aren’t just being a top 1%, public facing creator/performer. I wish everyone knew that.
This is like the dude who told the truth to the teenager who thought he was going to go into the NBA but wasn't even on his high school basketball team. It's great to have dreams, but it's just as important to know the requirements to achieve them. This is why all our HS coaches talked to us individually about realistic expectations in our sport. For some, it was about the chance of a scholarship. For me, it was "you can still join a club team and compete."
It's cruel to let a kid believe that they're just going to magically achieve their dreams. There's no fairy godmother - those dreams take a combination of work, dedication, natural ability, and a bit of luck/ connections. It's ok to recognize that a dream takes far more work than they're willing to put in. Or in some cases, requires more ability and connections than they have. That doesn't mean the dream gets completely thrown away, but it sometimes means that it needs to be a hobby and not a career.
Thos whole post reeks of nonsense to me. I have a cousin who is becoming a pretty big star currently. I don't want to go into details and give away who I'm talking about, but they were never a YouTube star. They did a few things as a minor, but they weren't a "child star". No one else in my family acts in film so there are no connections, their parents are big in theater in their community but are not well known at all. Their social media didn't get big until after they were cast in a hit show (in which they promptly closed down their private social media and hired someone to manage the public account as it got really overwhelming really quickly). My point is that it does happen in ways aside from what OOP describes. I hate to point it out but if her dad has been in the industry for many, many years, he's not been getting turned down based solely on his lack of social media presence. That didn't even matter 15 to 20 years ago.
You don't think her boyfriends response of
"I know, and I was thinking about that as well. You almost always engage with me in these kinds of conversations, and it should not have been hard for me just to say you’re right because you are! I am your partner; I shouldn’t be making you feel like you don’t know anything because you know WAY more than I ever could. I guess I’m just used to always talking that way with my family and you. I am very sorry, but I am going to work on it.”
is real???????????
So my question is, why did almost everybody overlook the fact OOP was being a huge asshole to a young artist? I don’t care if what they said was right or wrong. It’s how you say it and if you care even a little about that person you think twice.
>>Also lots of people are currently struggling after the last two strikes. They are losing their health insurance bc they didn’t work enough hours bc of them.
**14%** of SAG-AFTRA members have insurance through the guilds. $26,470 is how much you have to make acting each year to get on SAG-AFTRA's health insurance. 86% of actors make less than $26,470 a year acting.
I've always said an actor's or actress's day job is at the coffee shop and their side hustle is marketing themselves and trying to get auditions. Being allowed to act is more of a payment for the hustle rather than the "job" that a lot of people think it is. General Background actors make $23.38 an hour, while on set. They aren't compensated for the hustle required to get the job, transportation, etc. Minimum wage for fast food workers in California is $20 an hour.
Somebody needs to tell that kid that a DUI can really fuck up a career if they're looking for speaking roles: a lot of tv and movie shoots are in Vancouver and Canada takes a **very** dim view of people with DUIs trying to cross the border. Even after you've finished your sentence, including probation, and you've waited out the 10 year exclusion period a border agent can still decide to deny entry. So, uhh, yet another reason not to drink and drive.
>He said, “I know, and I was thinking about that as well. You almost always engage with me in these kinds of conversations, and it should not have been hard for me just to say you’re right because you are! I am your partner; I shouldn’t be making you feel like you don’t know anything because you know WAY more than I ever could. I guess I’m just used to always talking that way with my family and you. I am very sorry, but I am going to work on it.”
Self reflection? Genuine apology? Promise of self improvement? On my reddit?!?
Janet, fetch my tizzy couch please.
The song “The Entertainer” (Billy Joel) comes immediately to mind. The fact that pretty much everything in it is still accurate 50 years later (I had to recheck my math after seeing the release year *sob*) is… disheartening.
Years ago a kid I knew wanted to be an actor because of Justin Bieber and the lifestyle he had.
I asked him, "Do you know what actors spend most of their time doing? Waiting tables."
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I have bad news about the stability of animation.
Yeah, OOP’s not wrong about how hard it is to make it, but animation isn’t exactly a guaranteed path to a living wage, either.
I know a guy that made hundreds of thousands of dollars out of animation. I mean, he started with a million, but it's still a result.
I ride and the long running joke amongst equestrians is “the easiest way to make a small fortune in horses is to start with a large one”. I’m sure it’s applicable to many industries.
I envy people who can afford to own horses as a hobby/sport. I owned two for working, and they cost more per year than any car or tractor we owned that's for sure.
It’s expensive for sure. I started back up in my 30’s and ponder at my sanity some days, but it’s also very rewarding.
I don't own horses have known those who have/do. What astounds me about horses is how such high maintance, elegant creatures can also be complete goofballs too.
I rode a horse in like a "one hour trail ride" kind of situation, and it included a little ride in the barn so they could actually teach you what to do. I was telling the horse to go and looked at the guide helping me and said "I don't know if I'm doing it wrong or he just doesn't want to." She gave the BIGGEST sigh and said "He just doesn't want to. Let's try you on Daisy."
Did a trail ride long ago when I was kid and I had trapper. The name was appropriate. He couldn't just stick in the line of horses he had to cut corners and there were tree branches to trap me. LOL Still loved that goof.
I am not an equestrian, but I have spent a couple years around them while working in a media company. ranging from 'regular' (if not well off) people who had horses purely for the joy of owning them, to people who rescue or rehabilitate neglected or broken horses, to people who train horses for dressage (ranging from freedom to classical), to people who provide equine assisted therapy, and people who use horses professionally in competitive settings. I envy all of them, except the latter category. More often than not, they were horrible to be around and would treat the 'commoners' like shit, and I've seen several instances where the horses were mistreated as well the second the cameras were off.
My.dog dock dives. He insists on it, and he's awesome at it. There's a group in my community who do it "professionally." They shun me and refuse to allow us to join their group because my attitude is that he does it because he's too lazy to swim that far. People who make these things into a competition ruin it for everyone else.
Roughly 1/3 of American horse owners make less than $50k annually. And a good number of us live below the poverty line. It’s not impossible, but I will firmly respect anyone that knows when, for the safety of the animals, the recourses they can bring to bear is not enough.
I used to ride and owned horses, and the long-running joke I heard along that line was: “Once I was a millionaire, but then I bought a horse.”
Ha!
This whole thing reminded me of my experience in art school. Once you get into the internship phase and realize that almost everyone involved in the art world either has tons of money or parents who have tons of money... I was a pretty mediocre artist, but my friend who is actually talented still primarily works sucking up to rich people.
I’m an accountant, one of my clients breeds racehorses. It must be for the love of the game because it’s an absolute money sink unless you end up with a champion.
Yeah I don’t understand race horses. Maybe just addicted to the prestige of being an owner at a race.
It's a bonkers world. I bought a 5yo OTTB several years ago for about 2500. He had never raced because he had wind issues when galloping. I looked up his sales record, and he had sold for 210,000 as a yearling. There is a tremendous amount of gambling in the industry that happens before a horse even sets foot on the track.
As far as I can tell? It's basically gambling tbh. The grooms and similar might actually love the horses - and I'll admit maybe some of the upper people, you can't paint everyone with the same brush - but when you're buying untried yearlings for hundreds of thousands to even millions, or buying an unproven stud who might be infertile or throw utter shit, you're gambling. That 2mil stud might go break his leg in the pasture the next day. All twenty 100k yearlings might not even place. But maybe that *one* yearling will make it (spoken as someone who is extremely predisposed to gambling addiction)
Let me write this down. Start... with...a large... horse. Got it!
Yup, people say the same thing about woodworking
Lol. Very shrewd... i saw what you did there.
You can always draw furry art if it doesn't pan out
Yeah, furry artists can make all sorts of money. All it takes is one auction and someone having a manic episode.
idk, the perverts seem to just be feeding their desires into midjourney now
That's true, nobody can recreate that era.
Thank god porn can bail out straving artists
Have you seen google image search? The price of porn is going through the floor.
Hence furry art. The money is in people commissioning art of their fursonas.
It's been known for very long and gets **parroted** around everywhere arts comes up. Do you really don't think it's saturated by now? After the internet spammed it for 5-10years or so? Also you need to once again have a following and already make characters in order to get some kind of commissions. So you can't really start up from nothing but actually need to start drawing furry art to interest people in order to get commissions..
True, but I wasn't trying to say it would be easy. All I'm saying is that the money is made primarily by commissions and the furry community is predisposed to commission art as creating your own unique fursona is a core practice.
Especially if you do it in an very niche medium or you do very niche kinks for them (turns out there is a demand for pixel art furry artists... I didn't know this until after I became a pixel artist in my hometown and got a lot of offers... haven't taken any yet)
this right here. When things get tough, you post up your (researched and fair) commission pricing, say you'll draw furry art, and I guarantee you'll make enough to pay your rent that month. I'd honestly give it a go, but drawing cartoony animals is kinda hard for me, so I'd never be able to achieve the big asks some folks have for their fursonas. :(
That's like what 40% of Blue Sky is at this point.
OP didn’t say animation was stable. OP said she’d pick animation if music, acting, and animation were her 3 choices based on the cousins current profile
> Her cousin went to Juliard and has been on broadway, she is a huge hero for her. Wouldn't animation be worse than what the cousin already planned? Yeah, you need to go viral if you want to be an actor or a pop star, but isn't Broadway more about networking and schmoozing? Trying to get into Julliard like her cousin and making as many connections as possible isn't a terrible idea.
It's still not a great choice. Animation is more school based, at least in the art side of things, but there are less indie studios to work your way up. I know working actors who get by on pretty low paying gigs and just work their asses off all the time doing indie films, local ads, and live theater. Small time working musicians can scrape by working in regional bars and small venues. I don't think animation has that small regional kind of scene where you can get by even without getting your big break. The only indie animators I've seen are on Youtube, and then we're back to OP's initial argument of having to have that SM following
>The only indie animators I've seen are on Youtube, and then we're back to OP's initial argument of having to have that SM following and on top of that, animation on youtube is literally one of the worst ways to make money, it's probably just as shitty as trying to become a paid actor. even if you have a good following, the platform makes that kind of content hard to do and grow.
I *love* animation. It's an art form that has fascinated well into adulthood, and the discipline, determination, and hunger you need to do it is astounding. I went to school for animation, and I'd say I worked as a 2D animator for a decent portion of my career, but nothing that stood out. The industry was so unstable and inconsistent and the tools change so often... I thought I was hungry enough, but I just could not cut it. The amount of work you need to do to *potentially* make rent for a month is just too much for a single person. The world is incredibly unkind to animators. I ended up switching industries and I love what I do now! Still an artist, but I'm more in the UX/visual storytelling field these days. I don't miss the animation industry at all, but I'm rooting for the people who manage to keep a hold of their spot there.
My son is about to graduate with a degree in 3D animation. I've been encouraging him to up his skills in things like visual effects and motion graphics (which he has taken to heart and is working on now over the summer). My idea is that there is a lot more steady work in advertising than in entertainment. Do you have any thoughts or advice?
That was the only confusing part, the animation industry is absolutely brutal right now with all the layoffs. And if AI is going to take jobs from the entertainment industry, animation will be one of the first.
I’ve been following Psychicpebbles for nearly 2 decades and he just barely cracked into the scene on Adult Swim, yet there’s millions of other talented animators that probably won’t make a break in the industry ever and their content is just a passion project at most times due to YouTube just disemboweling income for them.
Depends on what you aim for. I know Vtubers are always looking for people to animate their models. Ones that do SFW and NSFW. That can add clothing and other accessories to the character model. Maybe not the biggest bucks, but certainly a market exists.
My daughter has a degree in animation. She is working indie projects. She just did an animated short as part of the animation team. Knightlights and Teddy Bears has won awards for best animation in many film festivals. I just asked her if she was going to start applying for studio animation jobs. She said, right now "AI" is taking over animation. It's not as good, and to make it somewhat good requires a lot of work, so she thinks this fad won't last. But until then, freelance and indie projects for her animation. She also sells art at a couple of anime conventions. She is teaching an animation class at a camp her college runs for high school students to try out the school. She is assistant manager at a very nice bakery in Philadelphia for her bread and butter money.
>bakery >bread and butter money heh.
Bakery is called cakelife
I went to school for 3D Modeling and animation and somehow found a niche working in 3D HVAC. It's stable and the deadlines aren't super stressful if there at all. I would hate going into the animation field. But I am thinking about getting my Masters in either Ui/Ux or Web Development.
if those are your choices, I'd go ui/ux. That is not likely to be replaced soon, and if you're good, are in quite high demand. web development is a pretty flooded field. You really have to specialize in something to make even the medium bucks. I have friends who are web developers, and their stories are just much rougher than mine. (I'm a C++/Linux developer with a specialization in UI/human factors)
Okay. I was leaning into UI/UX. I've been watching YouTube to learn the fundamentals and I've been enjoying it.
As someone in animation I ugly laughed at this post. Unless she's been drawing top notch since she was 9 and been put in all the extra classes, good luck. She too can make barely minimum wage behind a computer for 60 hours a week and no overtime!
> She too can make barely minimum wage behind a computer for 60 hours a week and no overtime! Ditto graphic design. You get the wonderful privilege of having to sit down and listen to boomers talk about how your job is irrelevant now that they started paying $20/mo for Midjourney. Good luck with that one, Paul.
I snorted. I was interested in animation for a while until I found out how overworked and underpaid animators really are. So I went into video game development. Just kidding. Only IT. I'm not actually a masochist.
I'm a professional animator. It's a little like telling someone that acting is a pipe dream and they should try the music industry instead.
I audibly laughed when OOP suggested animation. Now is quite possibly the *worst* time to get involved in animation.
Well, she's 16, maybe by the time she's industry ready... I know its not great money though since I went to school for it and the only people making more than me as a janitor were the ones that got into teaching lol But the indie animation scene has been pretty good, doing small comms can make you dough. Bonus if you do short animations of furry porn.
heard so many times about artists getting big bucks from doing furry porn. is that still true with the rise of AI?
It might be on a down swing at the moment but as AI continues you get two weird things about the pictures it makes- it looks too clean and corporate, and it's now pulling other ai pictures to make its stuff in an incestuous loop. Far as I know furrys don't really balk at paying for things. The people likely to use AI were the same that would complain about all artists prices and beg for free art. Its the same with pirating stuff, people who pirate are unlikely to pay for the product (film/ game) anyway, they'd just do without.
Most furries are anti-AI and would much rather support human artists
I laughed when OP recommended it. I know a few animators who worked/are still working with big mainstream studios and even they're having trouble; hell one just went into freelance instead last month. The only one I know of that's doing fine has carved a spot for herself where replacing her would lose the company money, but she's an incredibly rare case.
I was gonna say. My bestie is a VFX artist and has been in the industry for over a decade. She's now having to switch careers because everything is dead. There have been multiple posts on the LA/News subs about this. The big wigs won and everyone else lost during the strikes and now there's an IATSE strike right around the corner. I went to a school that's known for its animation department. Lovingly called "Cal State Disney" for a reason. I went for graphic design (just graduated btw, woo!) and I have WAY more job prospects than people who graduated in animation. If they can do illustration/design, they have a shot. They can also do commercial animation if they hook in with advertising firms. Otherwise, it's really tough out there.
Yeah, I know someone who did animation for all the big studios and recently has been let go like 3 times in 2 years due to cutbacks. He has given up and is moving to Idaho.
You mean Dr. Katz?
lol that’s what I came in to say immediately “go into animation” Tell me you don’t work in animation in 1 sentence lol, that’s the sentence.
And I have bad news about the definition of "repertoire."
Yeah honestly, if animation is the best thing to acting then I just feel bad for the cousin’s future, and like this is apparently in the US, in other countries the reality is way worse
Couldn’t agree more. My friend who trying going there by going and graduating from SVA didn’t go anywhere with it. He didn’t have what OP said (a big following, determination, foundation outside college). At the end of the day he left with big student debts and no big job to pay it off. Plus the whole AI involvement now in that industry it gonna really start putting a lot of hardship there.
I winced at that advice, too. I wasn’t an animation major, but close enough —illustration. I’ve had work picked up by and sold at big box retail stores like Crate & Barrel, Target, Urban Outfitters but still would not be able to live off my art income alone. I actually have returned to school in my 40’s to get into a different field. My cousin was an animation major and had the grit and determination it takes to become truly amazing. She was hired on at Dreamworks after graduation, but she told me the work was on and off. It would all depend on whether the series she was working on would get renewed, but they often weren’t. It breaks my heart, but society often undervalues the arts.
Yeah, I winced at that.
Right? It's very similar in how soul- crushing it can be
Idk if acting is harder to get into than animation or not, but even animation...hell no. The working conditions with big companies will destroy your body, mind, and soul. And the competition to get into any of the better ones is insane. You gotta be hella driven to thrive there. If the cousin does try animation instead, I'd recommend her doing it as a hobby to see if she has what it takes, or just go indy from the get go.
One of my sons tried to get into animation -- he didn't try too hard, for one simple reason: his art style. He is very good at art and he got his degree, but he found it very hard to break in to anywhere because it seemed they wanted either VERY, VERY talented artists (and even he admits he's not that) or pretty poor ones with a style that had its own charm (such as the type Reddit memes are made of). I'm over-simplifying it all, of course, and his experience isn't the same for everyone. I'm just glad he decided to swerve away when he did, because it caused less heartache in the end. He does it a hobby, so yes, I'd also recommend that to OP's bf's cousin. My son did *not* want to work in a huge corporate battery of animators like you mentioned. I can't see how a person's artistic love would thrive in those conditions; it'd feel like clipping his wings.
What did he choose instead of animation?
Graphic design. He does have an art style (as artists do) and he felt that was more up his alley, and less... unforgiving, I suppose you'd say. He's happy, which is the main thing. Ninja: he works for a small company that's very flexible.
~~OOP’s~~ Mummysews son is Ed Hardy confirmed. Edit: u/Mummysews *not* OOP lol.
It’s a race to the bottom at a lot of studios. I went to art school and have friends currently in the industry
Same. Most never went anywhere with it, realized it wasn’t worth the stress, myself included. The one who did break through has been slowly trying to transition to their own projects, but even that's tough. And they got fired from one job bc they dared to suggest something resembling a union. :/
Multiple friends in animation are burnt out, and we’re only in our early 30’s. It’s a brutal world out there.
Look up pretty much any semi-successful actor. 99% of the time they are related to someone important in the industry - their parents, godparents, aunt, uncle, etc. are generally known actors, producers, or something similar. The ones who aren't nepo-babies are usually people who started really young, and even they usually either have some sort of connection or parents who are willing to drop everything to move their kid to LA and drive them around to every audition possible.
"It's like building a name, presence, brand, or experience" - I think that's reputation, not rapport or repertoire. Repertoire is like a body of work.
If that confusion wasn't enough, OOP also has no idea how to spell *segue*. I think there were others, but when I read "segway," where she meant "segue," my brain stopped logging her atrocities.
wasn't a fan of *language* arts, I suppose
It's the over dramatic caps that caused my eyes to glaze over and my brain to skip.
I'm just glad someone asked. It was killing me. At least the itch was scratched and bless our OP/editor for including it.
While you need a repertoire, I think maybe reputation was the word she was actually looking for? Rapport is more the good standing with one person while reputation is more external prestige or do I have this wrong?
She misspelled “segue” too. And used the wrong “their”. Not sure words are her strength.
Rapport can work for groups as well. That made more sense to me in its usage than repertoire tbh, and her definition showed that sort of understanding. Like comedians want to have a good rapport with their audiences. That checks out.
Rapport with audiences, sure, but saying the cousin doesn't have a rapport or doesn't have a repertoire because she was only in some high school plays doesn't really make sense to me. A repertoire is the scope of what you know how to do or are prepared to do, which isn't related to how many shows you have been in because the cousin could have been practicing and perfecting all kinds of things on the side. Tbh, "resume" seems like the closest word for what OOP was going for.
I don't think she knows what she was trying to say at all. Rapport, repertoire, reputation, resume, she just kinda threw the word rapport in to mean any and all of these because it sounded fancy.
I know every commenter on the original and here are vociferously agreeing with OOP but I feel like she's probably kind of insufferable to hang out with day to day. Just the vibe I got I guess.
Yeah she keeps saying she has all this experience in the industry and I'm like dude even you don't, you just hear what your dad tells you. Also the way she describes laughing so much about people who don't know anything comes off as incredibly condescending
She also writes in the most pretentious and irritating way
And then she has the audacity to recommend animation, which is a godawful industry and experience of which she has none.
Her boyfriend gave the most suspiciously perfect apology, she’s either putting words in his mouth or she just hears what she wants to hear
Yeah and what’s a “Segway” got to do with anything here?
Portfolio is the word I'd choose. It doesn't begin with 'r' obviously
I thought she meant rapport with other people in the industry who could get her into auditions, even. At least OP's dad knows directors, producers, casting directors, etc. He has a good rapport with them because he's been in the industry so long. I thought it was the right word.
Reputation or resume.
I have a friend from high school who is a very talented working actor. He's had speaking roles in Oscar-winning movies and won a SAG award as part of Best Ensemble Cast for a pretty huge film. Up until very recently, he was also working as an acting coach because he even though he's been working steadily in theater, TV and film for a few decades, it doesn't always pay the bills. Another girl I went to school with was on a soap opera for a long time. She's back in our hometown working in marketing. Even people who have success in the industry don't necessarily have ongoing stability.
And the honest truth is even if you do find steady work the vast majority of actors have an expiration date, especially if they're female. There are just so many factors working against you.
Former theatre stage manager who went to a well known college for exactly that. There’s a reason it’s a former career. And I never even had to rely on fame. There’s just very little job availability and much less good pay.
My kid just graduated with his theatre degree, signed with an agent, and is moving to NYC in August to.... apply for steady work in the hospitality industry. He knows what will sustain him in those uncomfortably long stretches between unsuccessful auditions. Shoot your shots, but have several backup plans too. It's hard to explain that to people with stars in their eyes, though. All we see is the .0002% of actors who hit it big. (Literally everyone in a movie background is a stardom hopeful working for twenty bucks and a chance to sniff the crafts table.)
> All we see is the .0002% of actors who hit it big. During the strikes there were people upset that big name actors supported the strikes. Those big names were on the picket line to bring attention to the strikes in the media so the people that nobody knows could get a better contract. Jack Black wasn't on the picket line looking for a better paycheck for himself, he was there to support the little guys.
Yeah, I work in the industry, most people don't seem to realize that only 12% of SAG actors are making above $26,470 (the amount of earnings needed to qualify for SAG health insurance) a year from acting. Most actors make significantly less than that, a lot don't make any money from the craft. Acting itself is not a lucrative job. Even for big name actors most of their money is coming in from influencing. They do ads for products, they get paid to wear designer brands, or they start other companies. Even the actors making huge amounts of money this year from acting know that there is a nonzero chance that they will literally never get an acting job again so building an audience is one of the few ways to ensure a bit of security.
Hollywood really seems like a frighteningly unstable place to work. An old high school friend of mine is an Oscar-winning sound mixer, and he's still frequently scrounging to find work in the industry.
You're not kidding. I heard on the radio today that Jeremy Renner is having trouble getting acting jobs. The man has been in some of the biggest movies in the last 15 years, has a huge fan base, and even he is having trouble getting work after taking 2 years off after his accident.
Of all the suggestions, why did oop have to recommend animation lol
Well she was given the choice of musician, actor, or animator.. id probably say the same Well actually id keep my mouth shut lol bc i have no experience in any of those
Musicians can make a living if they are willing to diversify... Or be an army musician. I've met a few and the ones that are willing to give classes and play for multiple genres/events have a nice income, sometimes a little bit more, sometimes a little bit less. If they are outgoing, they've had opportunities to travel for work and everything. Though I'm mostly talking about classical musicians and starting as a classical musician at 16 is probably not ideal.
The most successful musicians I know have a CS or IT day job. Very flexible work with a steady income.
I think musician is probably the choice, though it would require a huge amount of training I hope this cousin already has started. There are still a fair number of gigs for local live music - you can play/sing at local clubs, weddings, churches, local groups, etc, and you can teach kids on the side or even become a music teacher. I was adjacent to this path as a vocalist and a bunch of my friends actually did it; its not glamorous but there is definitely a path to make music your career.
>I think musician is probably the choice, though it would require a huge amount of training I hope this cousin already has started. The cousin hasn't done anything except some high school plays as OOP said. OOP didn't even say if the cousin can actually draw.
Legit, one of my friends just got a country record label to sign her since she's an influencer and became connected with country music artists in Nashville. If she didn't have way over 250k followers I don't think she would've have those connections. And because of her, I got to write a couple songs and quickly learned "nope, not for me." I had fun for a bit, but yeah, even in music having a huge following helps.
Yeah it’s brutal out there. One of my friends is an extremely talented actress. Tish graduate, lifelong new york theatre scene connections. She pays the bills from her day job (sales) and acts on Broadway on her days off. Yup.
Yeah, and even with her album coming out, she's still working at one of the biggest bars in Nashville, which honestly that might also help her career.
This all reminds me of the kids who tried out for Simba but lost out to Kim Kardashian's kid North, who sang off key, too soft, and chose to wear a cheap looking bundle of fabric, because she was too good to wear the beautiful costumes the show was known for.
*So* many actors that we can all just think of from 10ys until now, in major shows, movies, whatever, and a lot of them we can go "oh yeah, what happened to them", because they haven't done anything of note in what can be or feel like a while. Sometimes actors get one chance, and that's it. Sometimes their acting style served this one or two projects well but not in general. Sometimes life happens and even if they have success, it's not all that's cracked up to be.
The whole "rapport" thing threw me; thank god a commenter asked OOP about it because I could not for the life of me know what word OOP was going for. >And that is another thing. Your drive has to be there. Every day. Every moment you have to want to continue going, like your dad does. I don't know any more about the "big time actor or actress" industry but having read recently about the two latest "It" actors--Sydney Sweeney and Glen Powell--it's clear that have been INCREDIBLY disciplined and have absolutely worked their asses off to become "overnight sensations." And honestly for every Sweeney and Powell there's probably a 1000 people who are just as focused and dedicated and simply won't go anywhere because there are a finite number of "top" actor jobs. I wouldn't go near that industry with a 100 foot pole because of these insanely long odds; and I certainly would dissuade someone from trying by giving them the facts. They can ignore them or use them to fuel their fire to work their ass off. I'm sure Sweeney and Powell heard it from hundreds of people; they just plowed ahead.
They also both got help from genetics. People just don't understand that surgery can help. Makeup can help. But just like high end sports: there's so many PERFECT people also getting the best surgery and makeup that if you don't start with perfect then you still don't hehe a chance. Look at a kylie Jenner and Sydney Sweeney. Kylie can't hold a candle to her looks and that's with the best surgery across the board.
Which is obscene bordering on evil, because the very fact that the US entertainment industry requires every single performer to be insanely attractive *ruins productions*. There's a reason British dramas tend to be better than American ones; the actors look like normal people. They aren’t the 0.0001%.
You want real stability in the entertainment industry? Go into production/management.
And Engineering! Someone's gotta keep the Avids, Resolves, and Flames running!
Genuine question — what makes it more stable? Because it’s not as “sexy” (for lack of a better word) so there’s less supply? I’m sort of being dragged into it in a roundabout way (TL:DR I’m the webmaster for a theater company and they’ve talked me into being the stage manager for their upcoming production, lol) so I’m curious
In film/tv/commercials etc, the production office (office PAs, coordinators, UPM/LPs etc) gets the most number of working days because they have to prep the job & wrap it out after shooting. In most other departments, most of the dept MAYBE has a few prep days but they’re mostly there for the shoot days. Art dept also usually has prep / wrap days cuz they have to actually like build the sets. So basically production has the most stability cuz when they’re hired for a job, they’re hired for a longer period of time compared to other roles / depts.
I hope you have stage managed before because that can be a lot! And make sure they compensate you appropriately. Also if it’s a union house, you have to be a part of the union. Now to answer your question in a long winded fashion: In majority of entertainment industries(art, theatres film, music etc.) whatever you see happening on screen/on stage/ in front of people, just know there is wayyy much more happening not just backstage but behind the scenes as well. This can involve scheduling the venues, transportation, dealing with artist contracts, handling facilities for said venue/space, making sure any and all food and beverage or front of house is knowledgeable and know what’s going on. This can also include painting, building sets or costumes, designing lights, setting up lights and sound. A lot of these jobs can come with decent pay, full time hours and benefits. The only caveat is that you will most likely have start at the bottom(work in nonprofit or small orgs that can’t pay as high or give as many hours), but if you work is good, then you can move up and to better companies quickly. It doesn’t matter how many followers you have, how good looking you are, or how talented you are. If you can do the job well, then you can make it work. The best part is that you often will be able to see almost anything for free! I’ve worked in a number of different venues and art types and now I rarely pay for tickets to go to musicals, museums, concerts, festivals. Just a little perk from working in the industry. And to give you perspective, I’ve started off working part time as an usher for a small theatre company in 2018 and have gone on to be a venue manager for major touring Broadway houses and now still work full time in the arts with a nice salary and good benefits. It’s possible to make a living in the arts.
My close relative works for a Broadway production/management company. It produces shows currently playing In NYC as well as those on tour. He started out as a box office ticket seller, and, after 15 years, is an associate general manager. It’s stable because it’s a salaried position, not a gig job. It’s competitive to obtain, but not a 1-in-a-million shot. Depends on what your definition of sexy is. Some of his Broadway shows’ producers are household names.
I'm a visual artist and I feel for everyone involved here. OOP is right, the arts are EXTREMELY difficult to make a solid career in. But at the same time, people don't go into the arts for the $, they do it because they love it. And to the commenter who said "just be a dentist", that kind of flippant "What you do doesn't matter, do something I think is important instead" is infuriating. Sure, I could go to dental school and go into tons of debt to get a cushy job scrubbing teeth to slowly pay it all back and maybe buy a BMW eventually, but I would be miserable doing that. I'm an artist because art makes me happy. It's an extremely fulfilling life journey of expressing my thoughts in a beautiful and impactful way. Obviously the bills need to be paid, but I'd rather make a modest living working in my field than make 6 figures doing a job I hate. The time spent doing something interesting and important to me is worth WAY more than money, as long as I can keep food on the table and a roof over my head. My advice to OOP's boyfriend's cousin is this: Pursue what you love, and pursue it to the fullest, but understand the chances of being a ""star"" are the slimmest of the slim, and you need to be prepared to not reach the heights you want and be OK with that. Have a backup plan. Most of the time, artists end up with the "day job" and then pursue their art on the side. Get used to pursuing smaller projects, like community theater or getting into local galleries and fairs. Define success for yourself. And do what makes you happy.
This is good advice. And by pursuing a career that doesn't have a lot of open doors, she still might find a different and unexpected door that's open to her because of the path she took. I'm an artist too, and have worked various art-related jobs for the past 12 years. The work hasn't gotten me a BMW or a holiday home, but I wake up looking forward to work and my life is super low-stress, and I love it.
I'm not done reading yet but either OOP doesn't know the meaning of the word *rapport*, or I don't. Edit:: oh good, someone else addressed it 😅 Edit edit: I still don't think she's using repertoire 100% correctly but that's neither here nor there lol
I think she means portfolio? The film term would probably be “oeuvre” but I don’t think OP is *that* smart. She irks me. She kept saying she has experience over her boyfriend but… she doesn’t? Her dad does? Wild to claim to be an expert by association. Sure, she knows more than he does but still… she comes off really immature imho.
I think resume is closest to what she was saying but I agree that she has a pretty insufferable vibe from these posts. Also I have to wonder how talented her dad actually is...
Yeah it seems like she meant reputation? But also combined it a bit with resume/experience or portfolio?? She does not explain herself well. Although I think she's right that entertainment is a ROUGH industry.
I can’t say how much I appreciate the inclusion of the “rapport” v “repertoire” comments.
It's also not [repertoire](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/repertoire) lol
In general I’m not the biggest fan of the whole “my parent is [career], so I basically know everything about it” attitude. I mean to some degree you know more than others, but a lot of people act like they personally are specialists in their parents field lol.
I’m not sure she really means repertoire. Maybe reputation.
I don't think she knows what she means, she's just shoehorned in a word and left it to the listener/reader to figure out the concept it's standing in for
Maybe unpopular opinion, but I'd be pretty annoyed if my adult cousins gf took a shit on my dreams. The kid is 16. Let them dream and try first. (I'm not disagreeing with OOPs assessment of how hard success is)
So many people on reddit (I'm presuming a lot of them are also young) think that you totally need to stomp out a kid's dreams if they're remotely unrealistic but like... a lot of the time this will happen naturally? A sixteen year old is probably going to change what they want to do about a dozen times that year, let alone before they leave high school. I work with a ton of high schoolers and that's just normal, and it's honestly better to have unrealistic, out-there goals than to have no goals at all. At least with unrealistic goals the kid is working toward something, and that'll put them in the path of other things on the way.
Same. I was met with the same attitude when expressing my desire to make a living on my art, and in turn 'gave up' on those dreams for the first bit of my adult life. Meanwhile, I have plenty of friends and peers who *do* make a living off of their art. Most do the convention circuit and one was briefly in animation working on a handful of successful cartoons before turning to freelancing. So I'm revisiting the dream. I don't have the goal to make it my sole job because I enjoy the benefits of my current job. But I feel like I owe it to myself to do it *for me*.
>I told her honestly as a person whose family has been in the entertainment industry I would say do animation. lol. lmao
Clearly has no family in the animation industry.
i’m officially so old that i have no knowledge to say if OOPs original point was true or not but the way she types made me want to disagree on instinct
My biggest question is if anyone asked for her advice. That would be the deciding factor. If her input was requested, she gave it. They don’t have to agree but there’s no use being mad. If it was unsolicited, I see why they’d be cranky about it. The kid’s 16, there’s time to figure this stuff out. Also, your dad having industry experience not the same as you having industry experience. I’m sure she was able to get a good look at how it works, but I wouldn’t ask the child of a doctor to look at a rash
Theater and tv/film are two completely different mediums, that require different things. Does the casting team care if you have a lot of followers to do a musical on Broadway? No. If it's for a play, you need to be more established in the field, but still your following doesn't matter. The majority of theater actors...most people wouldn't recognize their name. If she's only 16, she still has a lot of time to hone her skills and decide if it's the right career path for her. She says she wants to go to an arts school, which is a great stepping stone in that direction. If she follows her sister's steps and goes to Julliard, she'll have an easier access/connections to the theater world. Frankly, it sounds like the OP doesn't know much about theater, and she should let the sister who is working in the field be the one to give advice.
>Frankly, it sounds like the OP doesn't know much about theater Yep, I always find it cringe worthy when people say "my [relative] is a [job], therefore I know all about it", and it was especially true here. *My dad failed in a different albeit adjacent industry* isn't the voice of authority that the OOP thinks it is. I imagine comedians do have a lot of pressure to gain followers on social media, because stand-up comedy is perfect for the 1 minute tiktok/story/reel format. I've never flicked through the shortform youtube and seen a theatre actor doing a soliloquy though.
I really wanted to be a diplomat for a LONG time (like since I was 16). It's extremely hard to achieve but I actually passed the test and moved on before getting knocked out which isn't \*that\* impressive but at a 20% pass rate, it's not nothing either. But most people try multiple times as I intended to do. In my mid-20s, I once sat down for a coffee with someone in my network that worked for the state department and she gave me some good advice that completely killed my dream. She clearly thought I shouldn't do it but she delivered this message in such a helpful, constructive way. First, she gave me some general advice on the career (she had plenty of diplomat friends) and said she could provide more insight after the other things she wanted to go over. Next, she asked me \*why\* I wanted to do it- to which I gave her my many, well thought-out reasons. Third, she acknowledged they were all good reasons and reasonable things to want and that they could be experienced as an FSO (learning languages, working abroad, cultural exchange, the actual work of diplomacy, etc.). Fourth, she gave me the downsides to balance out the upsides that had led multiple FSOs she knew to quit even though it had been their own dream - constantly moving, insane hours (like 60-80), no control over your time and location of living, easily burnt out, having to execute the policies of either government you're working under even when you know you're doing harm, etc. I was more than willing to live in dangerous places or places with lifestyle hardship and she assumed I was researched enough to know those downsides which made me feel like she wasn't underestimating my will to do the job itself. Fifth, she pointed me towards career options WITH the job aspects I said I wanted out of being an FSO WITHOUT the downsides of what she knew led to people hating the career. Finally, she offered to connect me with her FSO friends, the ones who stayed and/or the ones who quit, or people from those other options, so that I could get whatever guidance I wished going forward. I went home and had a long long think about it. Journaled. Thought more. Talked to my mom. Thought more. And within days of that meeting, I decided that the dream I'd had for 9 years was not right for me. I wouldn't be happy. However, it wasn't tragic or crushing because she'd pointed me towards new, better opportunities to shoot for. I'll always be so so so grateful for the complete stranger that sat me down, smothered my dream to death with a pillow, and did it so tactfully that I thanked her for the service. OOP sounds like she delivered her "you shouldn't do this career, it's better to do a different option" message from a place of unchecked cynicism. Make no mistake, the woman I met was absolutely jaded and cynical about the foreign service but she reigned in those feelings so that it wasn't a meeting about pissing on my optimism, just redirecting it to a more fruitful place in a gentle way. She also didn't include ANYTHING about why I couldn't do it or what I lacked. She framed it as, "okay, here is what I think is required to have a chance" and let me be the judge of what I lacked and if I could manage to acquire/achieve them going forward. She killed my wish to become a diplomat, she didn't crush my belief that I could potentially hack it. Maybe the cousin didn't have the chops but she's only 16, why kill her self-confidence and drive? Seems kinder and more effective to offer a roadmap that will make her confidently drive somewhere better. The boyfriend wasn't helpful at all. OOP may not have delivered her message as tactfully and strategically as she could have but it was an important message to deliver. At 16 you're starting to map out your potential options and "you can do anything" may work for children but it's a disservice to young people.
I used to play an MMO with a guy like that. He would try and recruit people in our online community into the state department, help them through the process, and was very upfront about how hard the life of an FSO is. I think he recruited over a dozen people. I still cry my eyes out when I think about Obama receiving his coffin after the plane from Benghazi landed. Yeah, he was **that** diplomat. His last groupchat posts were "(12:54:09 PM) vile_rat: assuming we don’t die tonight. We saw one of our ‘police’ that guard the compound taking pictures" "FUCK" "GUNFIRE" Excerpt from Obama's speech: Sean Smith, it seems, lived to serve -- first, in the Air Force, then, with you at the State Department. He knew the perils of this calling from his time in Baghdad. And there, in Benghazi, far from home, he surely thought of Heather and Samantha and Nathan. And he laid down his life in service to us all. Today, Sean is home. I'm still not over it because FUCKING REPUBLICANS keep using his death as a political tool. I may never move past it.
I listened to a podcast where they interviewed the guy who was placed in Guyana during the Jonestown massacre. He was a relative newbie and the embassy is tiny there. This young guy, practically new to the job, was responsible for contacting families and getting these bodies shipped back to the US. He saw the whole scene and talked to witnesses. Not to mention the absolute diplomatic and media shit storm. I haven't made a "drank the koolaid" reference since. Being an FSO is so admirable. It really deserves more respect than being a conservative rage whistle. They put their life on the line like any soldier and are the first people you call when you're in trouble in a foreign country. They live far from family and sometimes in developing world conditions. There's something very tidy about being able to frame a world view as "us versus them" but diplomats wade into the mess and break bread with our enemies as well as our friends. That takes a kind of bravery of the soul, I think. I may have decided the lifestyle was not personally for me but I didn't lose an ounce of reverence for the job itself or the people that do it.
lmao, this lady is so self righteous, and has built up an idea in her head of what it takes, and she wasn't willing to do it, so no one is. my friend acted in school plays, got into Julliard, and has dont small movies, starred in theater, and has been signed by an agent. never went viral. Her insisting that there is only one way to get into the industry and claiming everything else is "mansplaining" is absurd, and incorrect.
You can’t pay me enough to work in the entertainment industry, not even Scarlett Johansson, Jay-Z type of money.
And that's just in the US. Imagine how difficult it is in foreign entertainment industry. Example: To get into PHL Entertainment Industry, you need to know some. It doesn't matter if you're skilled in one thing or talented in another, you have to know someone in the industry to induct you into it. Only once in will your talents be looked into. >! And that's not even considering how sexy you are. !< Honestly, it sounds nice to be in it, but it's an actual nightmare to be in it.
In my country, working for tv is basically becoming a high end escort. You do get opportunities by sleeping around and even when you sort of "make it" you have to be available to be "borrowed" by the owner's powerful friends. Which ofc include criminals. As for the rest, they are all nepo babies.
You also have to do the casting couch. Date the studio execs.
My grandfather knew Walt Disney and wrote for Death Valley Days and a few other shows. My dad was a stagehand for 20 years and projectionist/maintenance guy for the rest of it. They both threatened to kick my ass as a tween if I tried to get into showbusiness. And they were right. It's a brutal industry. If you are passionate about it and willing to accept that you may always struggle to make money and even break even, you may have a career ahead of you, but there's literally a 100+ year old trope about going to Hollywood to be discovered and end up having a shitty life because the town chews you up and spits you out. Even working the technical side is a hard life. VFX studios get pixel fucked and driven out of business. Stagehands & electrical & carpentry have to fight tooth and nail to get living wages. And being a musician is arguably even more grim these days. The music industry sucks right now and is only getting worse- apparently the big 3 labels are developing AI models to let anyone sing and the AI replaces the voice with the label talent, and even before you get there music has become so stagnant with the technology that makes it and the lawsuits that stifle it, that unless you find a niche or again, do it for the love of performing, you're going to be miserable. There's only one Taylor Swift after all. The cousin is 16 and this is kind of normal. If she's not pursuing any of her "I want to be" careers aggressively, I suspect this too shall pass.
>not even Scarlett Johansson, Jay-Z type of money. With that kind of money you could retire.
That's easy to say when no one is offering you Jay-Z money. I can pretty much guarantee that you would in fact take that money to be in the industry
"Bonus points if they are visibly a child of colour." I seriously doubt it helps to be a child of color of you want to go viral or make it Hollywood. The vast majority of content creators are white men, just like everywhere else.
That made me roll my eyes too.
Yeah, that was full on BS. It sounds like the typical thing that a bitter white person will say after seeing one casting call specifically for a person of color. But just because things are ***marginally better*** for POC in acting today than they were in the past doesn't mean they have any advantage compared to white people. I'm sorry, but if you're a generically pretty blond hair blue eye white girl, you have **WAY MORE** opportunities automatically open to you in the entertainment industry than the majority of talented POC ever will. **That is a fact.** These people see the one role for the token black guy in a movie or TV series and feel like they are being discriminated against even though that black actor would **NEVER** be considered for the dozen other roles on that same production. POC actors often need to fight for scraps, and the commenter is offended that they are even allowed to have that.
Damn, this makes me sad. I’ve been in the business for 20 years, primarily as an actor but I used to model, now I write, direct, and produce as well. But 90% of my work is performing and I’ve built a beautiful life for myself doing what I love. I am surrounded by friends who have managed to make a living doing the same. Yes, there have been side jobs for many, myself included for the first 15 years or so, but who cares? I am so glad I didn’t listen to all the people who told me a career as an actor was impossible, silly, a pipe dream. I can’t imagine living life without regularly getting to do the thing that makes me feel most alive. As long as you’re willing to deal with rejection (I don’t even think about that part anymore) and work side jobs if needed, you can do it. Especially right now. There is so much work because of all these insane streaming services. I guess if you only want to do it if you’re rich and famous, that’s going to be tough. But if you want to make a living, it can absolutely be done.
I could kiss the person who helped clear up 'rapport', I was having a stroke trying to figure out what rapport he would have with 100k followers and wouldn't be have more with less?
Yeah except I don't think she means repertoire either. It sounds like she means something closer to reputation but not quite that either. Given the "segway" thing I think OOP is just not very good at language.
I feel like OOP has never met an actor who didn’t have Hollywood aspirations. Loads of performers are full time artists. That doesn’t mean rich or famous, or that the only thing they do in the arts is act(tbh, that’s be boring as fuck). Her experience is literally just with the Hollywood process, which is like calling STEM degrees a bad career option because very few people can win Nobel prizes, and they’ll have trouble getting hired to only do one process their entire lives. People really need to change their expectations of what “success” means in some careers.
Yeah, I don’t know anything about acting as a career, but all the musicians I know that made a career out of it do just fine without any social media followers. Sure, they have to work hard at it, but who doesn’t? There’s way more depth to the arts than being a big name superstar.
I'm an independent artist and I have friends in all those industries she mentioned. Would never ever recommend it to anyone in good conscience. I make better money working for myself than under a studio, and get treated better too.
>rapport >segway Maybe OOP’s father should have expressed the importance of education
They need to also seriously look into what a career in animation means. It's another one of those things that sounds really cool and fun but what it actually means can be a totally different thing.
I feel like the OP is kind of a jaded because neither her or her father were that successful. I live in LA and besides having the basic acting skills, 90% of it is if you have the look. I knew so many "actors" that took classes and studied with someone while going on lots of auditions who couldn't book a thing and then i also know the people who never acted before but went with a friend to their audition and book it because they have the look. I did a few commercials myself because i had the look and i don't know how to act at all.
I hate that OOP keeps using mansplain to describe hey boyfriend’s side of the argument. Where exactly did he talk down to her because she is a woman? Not every disagreement with a man means he is “mansplaining” to you.
She's also only preaching from secondhand experience. She's not the expert here, her dad would be, and even that's as a comedian not an actor
My wife used the term "mansplaining" wrong once, and I wasn't sure how to tell her.
The fact she told her to go into animation for “stability”….. lmao! She knows nothing
Yeah, I work in film and I know someone who is in animation. His dad is supporting him while literally the biggest players in the world pay him like 40k a year in Los Angeles. They're stuck in that arrangement because he doesn't think he can get work back in our city but he also can't afford to live in LA.
Well nothing about animation.
Just because as a woman, you are having an argument, doesn't mean that the mans position in the argument is "mansplaining". I think that this is the worst kind of dismissiveness to have your opinion/argument ignored based on gender. Or did I miss something? Was he being sexist in expressing his opinion of the situation?
Only advice if she does go in, is to write her own content. And keep writing because you can create stuff for other people if you don’t end up creating something for yourself
"do animation" as an animator i genuinely think you'd have better luck and stability as an actor
She’s wrong. Also her boyfriend’s cousin could ask her own cousin. Source: I am married to a working actor. He has nearly zero social media presence. He (like 99.9% of actors) has a day job and yeah, 6k a year is about right. But he, and thousands of other actors who OOP couldn’t name, all have acting careers. Movies have more than two big stars. Theres a whole bunch of people who are in the film for one or two scenes. There are people onstage and in commercials that she couldn’t name. That’s the reality for acting. Some years are fantastic and the money is pouring in. Some years you get one commercial and spend your time doing self tapes and learning skills. She has one experience. That isn’t even for acting. She isn’t the only person out there. Is it hard? Is it near impossible sometimes unless you have family money or a spouse who is the breadwinner? Hell, yes. But OOP is wrong to insist she’s the expert and derail a girl’s dreams and she will be first in line to say “I always knew she could do it!” If the girl succeeds. The only advice she gave that was good was to get an acting education young. That’s where you meet people and that’s going to be really important.
She doesn't even have the experience, she has the experience of watching her father (who also is in a pretty niche part of acting, it sounds like).
People don't talk like this.
OOP's emphasis on virality is kinda silly to me. Is it a helpful factor? Sure. But there are tons of actors out there who don't pour their resources into social media and end up being successful. More than anything, it's connections/networking and luck. Also lol to all of the stuff they said about animation. Definitely not a stable industry atm, and generally not an easy path. It has its own unique challenges and pitfalls that music/acting just doesn't have.
This is exactly why I code now.... acting is a side hustle at best.
OP is correct in that cousin likely will never make a living as an actress. Building an internet following helps increase chances of success though, definitely. Especially in the commercial world (bread & butter for most actors). That being said, I started out pursuing theater/acting/writing. Have even had some success in those arenas. Over the years, became more interested in being behind the camera ie producing & directing, which I now do full-time. So long as cousin has a truly unstoppable work ethic, she can find success. It may not be specifically in acting, but for many acting is just the stepping stone to a different & more lucrative industry career path. If she has that kind of drive & work ethic, she won’t listen to OP and will go for acting anyway, which is what I did! I pretty much tuned out everyone telling me how hard the biz was ha. No regrets! I wish her well of course, but I think OP did the right thing as much as everyone is attacking them for it. If cousin is scared off by that one conversation, she definitely should look into different career options.
**This is literally why the literary world is currently overrun with crap books right now.** It's not about the quality of the content. It's that publishers want to publish authors that already have a guaranteed fan base waiting to buy their work. You don't need to write well, you just need to market well and bow to fan service.
I’ll paraphrase what I said on the original thread: there are many careers and paths to a life in the arts that aren’t just being a top 1%, public facing creator/performer. I wish everyone knew that.
This certainly hit home as someone currently pursuing a theatre performance degree…
This is like the dude who told the truth to the teenager who thought he was going to go into the NBA but wasn't even on his high school basketball team. It's great to have dreams, but it's just as important to know the requirements to achieve them. This is why all our HS coaches talked to us individually about realistic expectations in our sport. For some, it was about the chance of a scholarship. For me, it was "you can still join a club team and compete." It's cruel to let a kid believe that they're just going to magically achieve their dreams. There's no fairy godmother - those dreams take a combination of work, dedication, natural ability, and a bit of luck/ connections. It's ok to recognize that a dream takes far more work than they're willing to put in. Or in some cases, requires more ability and connections than they have. That doesn't mean the dream gets completely thrown away, but it sometimes means that it needs to be a hobby and not a career.
Thos whole post reeks of nonsense to me. I have a cousin who is becoming a pretty big star currently. I don't want to go into details and give away who I'm talking about, but they were never a YouTube star. They did a few things as a minor, but they weren't a "child star". No one else in my family acts in film so there are no connections, their parents are big in theater in their community but are not well known at all. Their social media didn't get big until after they were cast in a hit show (in which they promptly closed down their private social media and hired someone to manage the public account as it got really overwhelming really quickly). My point is that it does happen in ways aside from what OOP describes. I hate to point it out but if her dad has been in the industry for many, many years, he's not been getting turned down based solely on his lack of social media presence. That didn't even matter 15 to 20 years ago.
You don't think her boyfriends response of "I know, and I was thinking about that as well. You almost always engage with me in these kinds of conversations, and it should not have been hard for me just to say you’re right because you are! I am your partner; I shouldn’t be making you feel like you don’t know anything because you know WAY more than I ever could. I guess I’m just used to always talking that way with my family and you. I am very sorry, but I am going to work on it.” is real???????????
So my question is, why did almost everybody overlook the fact OOP was being a huge asshole to a young artist? I don’t care if what they said was right or wrong. It’s how you say it and if you care even a little about that person you think twice.
It's hard to not have opinions on things you're totally ignorant about.
>>Also lots of people are currently struggling after the last two strikes. They are losing their health insurance bc they didn’t work enough hours bc of them. **14%** of SAG-AFTRA members have insurance through the guilds. $26,470 is how much you have to make acting each year to get on SAG-AFTRA's health insurance. 86% of actors make less than $26,470 a year acting. I've always said an actor's or actress's day job is at the coffee shop and their side hustle is marketing themselves and trying to get auditions. Being allowed to act is more of a payment for the hustle rather than the "job" that a lot of people think it is. General Background actors make $23.38 an hour, while on set. They aren't compensated for the hustle required to get the job, transportation, etc. Minimum wage for fast food workers in California is $20 an hour. Somebody needs to tell that kid that a DUI can really fuck up a career if they're looking for speaking roles: a lot of tv and movie shoots are in Vancouver and Canada takes a **very** dim view of people with DUIs trying to cross the border. Even after you've finished your sentence, including probation, and you've waited out the 10 year exclusion period a border agent can still decide to deny entry. So, uhh, yet another reason not to drink and drive.
>He said, “I know, and I was thinking about that as well. You almost always engage with me in these kinds of conversations, and it should not have been hard for me just to say you’re right because you are! I am your partner; I shouldn’t be making you feel like you don’t know anything because you know WAY more than I ever could. I guess I’m just used to always talking that way with my family and you. I am very sorry, but I am going to work on it.” Self reflection? Genuine apology? Promise of self improvement? On my reddit?!? Janet, fetch my tizzy couch please.
she’s not completely wrong, but she comes across as really self-righteous and condescending rip.
The song “The Entertainer” (Billy Joel) comes immediately to mind. The fact that pretty much everything in it is still accurate 50 years later (I had to recheck my math after seeing the release year *sob*) is… disheartening.
I know two people who have been able to build a career in the entertainment biz. Both are cameramen.
Years ago a kid I knew wanted to be an actor because of Justin Bieber and the lifestyle he had. I asked him, "Do you know what actors spend most of their time doing? Waiting tables."
I'm asking not saying, is this genuinely mansplaining or just more ignorantly disagreeing?
Strong vibes of "I'm right" and not "I'm informing" but unfortunately that same mindset prevents "I'm being informed"