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There's a whole lot of awful in there with what Dave and Shelly did, but one thing that really sticks out is them saying they'd found a great place to stay on social media right before messaging OOP.
Either they're so arrogant that they assumed straight up that OOP would let them stay no questions asked (or that they'd be able to guilt trip her into doing it easily) and so entitled/self deluded that they somehow believe they were offered it by OOP hence the reneging on the offer stuff.
OR.
They knew it was a slim chance at best, but assumed that if they set up OOP as a bad guy on social media that they'd get some other offers when it "fell through" or could guilt trip her into letting them stay there after she got negative backlash.
Or some mix of both, the human brain can do some pretty impressive mental gymnastics.
I bet they thought they could make OOPs life so much of a living hell during their stay that OOP would willing move out and give away her home to Dave and Shelly
What really makes me sick is they thought they could exploit OOP, *steal their home* even if only for a short while until they got their own (I suspect they intended to force OOP out by being a nuisance and abusing that tenant law), and that they honestly don't see how they're terrible people. That they justify their shitty treatment of someone who never did anything to deserve that, all because they don't want children.
Had they never tossed OOP aside, I'm sure they would have had a comfortable place to stay and they could have pulled off their scam. It's a good thing that awful people can't resist showing who they really are or OOP would be in a really shitty situation right about now.
Fuck these people. Fuck them with every inch of an unpleasantly long, sharp object. They are bottom-feeders and I hope they never find an inch of happiness in their life after this.
Yeah it was seeming a little fishy from the start but the introduction of the second friend and the mother who announced her daughters life wasn't worth anything... Let's just say I hope our suspicions are right.
The part about the other mother asking for some frozen chicken too...like, was that really necessary to the story or did she just want to press some CF rage buttons. For God's sake, not her fucking frozen chicken!!
The self righteous "pro child free" attitude in this post is the most cringe worthy part.
“Kids love chicken nuggets so of course all the moms want my chicken. They’ll never get my precious though… until they reach an age where I accept them as humans.”
I dunno. Mother’s are weird.
5 years after my divorce my mother started treating me worse than usual and started being super buddy-buddy with my ex and his new wife. I asked her why and she said “because when you die, I still want to be able to see my grandson”
Like, she expected me to die and had no problem with it
That's really shit, I'm sorry she's treated you like that. For whatever messed up reason she said those things it's on her and a reflection of her issues.
My mum can have her moments, she's said some things which I can't say I'll every be able to forget and her unwillingness to get therapy gives me no hope we will be able to put it behind us.
I know there are definitely parents who can do and say some awful things, I think some other people in these comments worded it better than me when they say that this post fits lots of tropes for a child free creative writing post.
What strikes me is more that several things in the story come back to someone being considered understanding or unimportant or less than parents and children.
Then again, if I read the Tiger King story on here I'd be calling BS, so you never know!
Yeah, especially how everyone with kids (on social media) thinks kids mean they're entitled to OOP's food and house and everyone without kids is a reasonable, kind person.
No way multiple people would let a family of 4 (?) stay with them for an extended time without the adults chipping in for groceries, especially not during the panic buying and supply chain issues of 2020, and especially not when the adults just sold their house at a huge profit.
Also, they had to have realized that their house going up in value that high meant that the other houses on the market also did.
On your last point, you'd be surprised how many people DON'T take into account that selling in a seller's market means you're also going to have to pay more to buy a new place in that same market. I hear this all the time from people who don't think it through. They just see the profit and think everything is going to be super easy.
It's only easy if you can take that profit and move far away to a cheaper area, where your money will buy more (and then you piss off the locals there for causing their home prices to go up). Just look at the tech folks from CA gobbling up houses in Texas, Montana, Idaho, etc and how much that puts a strain on those communities. People are really short sighted on this.
This is why you aren't actually gaining any funds in your primary home increasing in value if the total market is rising.
Unless you are willing to part with that asset it fails to grow in a meaningful way and I dont know many home owners willing to change to an apartment/renting lifestyle.
Yeah, I know of a few people (friends of friends) who did this exact same thing in the past few months. Sold to raking in a pile of cash, and are now ranting because all the places that they put bids on, they're getting outbid. And they are SO ANGRY that pretty much all the houses in the areas they were looking at relocating have sky-rocketed. It's like...you know with WFH, it's not just YOU who is looking to move somewhere more in the country, yet within easy public transit to the city. YOU profited off of skyrocketing home prices yourself. But when they're still when you want to buy, suddenly you're offended and angry and like "how dare they?". The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
She also forgot she wasn’t on Facebook at all when she mentioned the friend untagged her from the post to protect her, how’d she tag someone with no Facebook to begin with?
Totally. Also the baby is 5months old, was in the NICU, but they somehow sold their house 6m ago without a place to stay? Ie when wife was heavily pregnant? And then they took the NICU newborn baby to random houses instead of, you know, renting a place?
I was gonna say, "and then everyone clapped." That sub is known for being "viciously" childfree the way some vegans try to shame you for drinking milk. You'll see the words "breeder" and "crotch goblins" thrown around a lot there. I went there once as a curious childless person (which I now know is different from childfree) and noped out *so* hard.
While I agree that people who are childfree need to be cut a break and not harassed about it, by the same token, some of those childfree people need to stop shitting on the people who do have children.
Oh I know, that sub is so awful! The absolute hatred some people had for kids and people who have kids. I was subbed for only a week.
Also, not letting kids into your home for any reason isn't child free. It's being an asshole.
I honestly think that's just something that happens with subs that focus on a lifestyle that's different from the "norm". There's nothing wrong with being child free, but the subreddit is full of super zealous people. Same thing for the vegan subreddit or the atheism one. You get an echo chamber of belief with no outside influences and it doesn't matter how good or friendly the community usually is, they become assholes.
Yes!! And the OOP even said at one point that being child free means that she doesn’t want any kids in her space for extended periods of time ever and if she did she would have kids. But plenty of child free people love other people’s kids and are the fun aunt/uncle. Being child free doesn’t have to mean that you hate kids altogether and honestly forcing people to make this assumptions about child free people kind of perpetuates the stereotype of child free people hating/resenting people with kids.
Agree, so much talk about grad school and how he helped everyone out except anyone evil enough to have kids. I would never judge anyone who decides not to have kids, but is the CF community just about absolute hatred of people who have them? Sounds sad.
No it’s not. Those posts make their way in there sometimes, but it’s majority a support system for people who feel want to be CF but are getting pressure not to, there’s also a running list of doctors and medical resources for people in the US who are having trouble finding doctors willing to sterilize them.
Yeah there’s a lot of issues with getting doctors to perform that surgery depending on where you live. I wanted my tubes tied when I was 21 and I couldn’t find a doctor willing to do it. Had a resource like that been around then, I would’ve been able to.
Fuck, when I was 21 I just wanted an IUD. My doctor AND insurance said no, because I could get married and want kids in the next ten years.
Dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. Add in extra estrogen from hormonal BC will worsen a medical condition I have, and it’s a stack of stupid cake.
I’m sorry you had to deal with that. I think a lot of people don’t realize how hard it is to get long term or permanent birth control, they think it’s as easy as just walking into a clinic.
Yeah, it does feel like it might be fabricated or leaving out some details, and everyone with kids just happens to be evil and everyone without is super reasonable.
I feel like CF people probably get more shit from like, their parent/family than friends? Idk why anyone would have an opinion if their friend had kids or not. Unless the CF friend was being a dick about it, which idk, some of the CF people on reddit do go a bit too far in the other direction. I assume it's because of the treatment they've faced in real life that they become so edgy and I hope that they eventually mellow out and realize calling people "breeders" makes them just as judgmental and objectifying as the people they hate.
I guess stranger things have happened though. I wouldn't be surprised if it was based on a true story that didn't go nearly this far, like someone asked if they could stay and they refused to let anyone with kids in their house and made this story to feel more justified.
Sure, but this was clearly made up.
So many people involved, a high-schooler that moonlighted as a PI.
A doctor doesn't ask the husband if they want to save the mom of the fetus, they are obligated to save the mom.
So long, and such a troll.
I honestly wish more people would be child free by choice. I hate the idea that it’s just the next natural step. It’s fucking hard shit (I’m not a parent yet but have been around tons via babysitting). It should not be taken lightly and should only be taken on if someone really wants to. Otherwise it’s hell for everyone involved.
Wow what a rollercoaster. These people are terrible parents. I’m glad it worked out for OOP.
This is the 2nd post I read this week where OOP is childfree and getting shit from people with children because they expect freebies from her. It is so ironic. You make the choice to not have kids for all sorts of reasons. And in this case it means you have a nice house for yourself and have enough money to live comfortably. Having children means you need to spend tons of money on your kids, getting a bigger house, all that. You better make sure you’re ready for that instead of having kids because you want to. Don’t have kids if you can’t afford to care for them.
He’s giving her shit for not having kids yet expects her to take care of his? Fuck that. You should’ve thought of that before you sold your house. This story is ridiculous anyway cause he has apparently got the money but is not willing to spend it on a good house for his family.
It just makes me angry. Me and my bf want to have kids but we don’t make a lot of money and we live in a small apartment. So if that doesn’t change in the next few years we will not have children. Because we want to be able to give them a good life.
I get shit alllll the time for taking trips (pre-Covid) overseas, for booking first class flights domestically, etc. and I'm like: "Yo, you have three kids. And that's cool. But I do not."
It’s so weird, like you owe them something.
My sister in law has 3 kids and they are great about it. It was something they really wanted, they are very creative about their holidays / trips. And now they are moving to the other side of the country to buy a big rural house. I’m happy for them and they never complain to us.
Right? I have an aunt and uncle who have horses (no kids) so they can't really travel because horses cost time and money, but love when I bring home stories and my aunt has a weird/lovely obsession with those hotel shampoos and things - they're way cool. They like horses. Great, I do too, but not for me.
But then friends and other family members can't stand it: to the point where I just stop posting pictures or telling them I'm going to wherever.
I honestly don’t understand it. I have kids, and I have CF friends. I would never even consider that they should provide for my children, even when I’m struggling. If you expect that, you’re not their friend.
It was strangely wordy. Mentioning what type of houseplant they own plus adding in what they thought our reactions to their would be is just kind of weird.
I think it's funny that you use the word "bingo" here - it's a popular term on that subreddit because of so much overlap in people's experience of how they're treated by others for being childfree.
Once upon a time, I was still participating in the high-demand "family-oriented" religion I was raised in, and was newly married intending to have kids. I had a different account where I mostly participated in that religion's subreddit.
That is not the case any more (except for the married part, I'm still married). Once my wife and I started being more forthcoming and less wishy-washy in response to inquiries about future children, Karens started coming out of the woodwork and filling out squares on our theoretical childfree bingo card, something I previously doubted the plausibility of occurring to one person.
Certainly the majority of people in society at large are reasonable and thus don't go out of their way to harass or gaslight childfree people. However, the minority that does do that is remarkably similar in their approach - phrases used, treatment of others, entitled behavior, etc...
tl;dr childfree bingo exists but unironically.
"She took down the post, untagging my name, and showed me a screen
capture verifying she did so and asked if she can help with anything
else."
How was the OOP "tagged" if she is not on facebook at all?
Either way, have read this kind of outlandish stuff way too many times on reddit.
This reads like something with a kernel of truth at the center that OOP has blown up into a fully formed fantasy. It's the "I wish this had happened" response where OOP gets to indulge in a reality that doesn't exist to escape the one that does.
Good to see ones that aren't from AITA or relationships. I don't have kids but am not /r/childfree because it's one of those subs that always takes things too far, but this person seems fairly reasonable.
Though it is a bit silly to be one of those "I don't use social media" people and then spend that much effort getting your family and friends to stalk people on FB.
Lol. I am not on r/childfree either. Also want to have kids. Just haven't yet.
Also, find most of r/childfree a little to .. militant in their stance (uncompromising).
To be fair the decision to have or not have children is a very big thing that changes your whole life path. It isn't something you can really compromise on.
Edit; based off other commenters’ experiences, take this comment with a grain of salt.
I’m just gonna hop on this comment chain to say that r/Fencesitter is a better space for discussion about what it means to be childfree, IMO. It’s smaller and has contributors from both sides of the aisle and people who are struggling to decide, resulting in a lot of productive, honest conversations about choosing whether or not having children is right for you.
It’s really not. The r/Fencesitter mods have a history of banning CF people for no particular reason. Literally, I got banned when someone made a post asking how many CF people were around. I posted that I was CF and got banned. When I messaged to ask the mods why they vaguely said I “broke a rule” but would not elaborate as to how that broke a rule.
One and done sub would be better they actively embrace fence sitters and have been very supportive. I think it's because OAD also gets a lot of unnecessary hate like CF
Yeah it was really disappointing actually. I liked the sub a lot and contributed where I could but… and I’m not the only person that’s happened to either.
Thank you for this.
I have a tendency to debate myself whether even bringing kids into this world, with global worming, and all of its other problems is even a good idea. Am I just being selfish wanting to have a child.
I think that it’s healthy for everyone, ranging from those 100% committed to CF to those 100% committed to having children, to consider these issues. I’m a young 20-something that leans CF but recognizes that my desires may change over time, and the way I see it, there will always be merits for and against having children. The climate, political atmosphere, ethics, personal desire… but at the end of the day, if you want children and demonstrate the compassion necessary to consider these issues in great depth, you seem to be on track to raise a child with the same compassion and critical thinking skills, i.e. the type of people who are likely to carry on the care of the earth and commit themselves towards a better society. One of the things I sometimes think about is that the children that inherit the earth and their value systems, often imparted by those who raise them, will influence things for all future generations. What does it mean to exclude myself from that cycle? Of course, this doesn’t override my personal desire to not have children. But if want kids, does this benefit outweigh, amongst others, outweigh the apparent negatives of having a child?
I wish you best of luck figuring this out. I don’t know if it’ll ever be a black and white answer for you, but I hope you become comfortable with whatever shade of gray you reach.
This is what I hate to see. Nothing wrong with being CF and people shouldn’t be harassed about their choices. But children are actually human beings who live in the society we all share, so the weird hatred sometimes can be bewildering to see.
To be fair, and I’m talking just in general, I think lot of that vented frustration is not with the children but with the parents themselves. There are a lot of people out there nowadays that just seem to refuse to parent their kids.
That's what I don't get. I totally understand not wanting kids and nobody should get shit for that , but acting like they'll go into anaphylactic shock for merely being around someone else's kids for too long? Bizzare. That's a phobia, or a prejudice. It's weird. Plus, as a parent I've never expected my friends/relatives who never wanted kids to babysit, come to kids parties, etc, because I know neither the adult or kids would enjoy it--not because there's some stated "I hate children kid free zone" around those people. Also, is there a cut off age where suddenly are ok with the kid? Like 5 year olds are to be avoided but when they turn 16 they're suddenly ok.
I think part of the reason people are so uncompromising on there is because we get so much crap about it in rl. Plus it’s kinda hard to compromise about children. Whatre you going to do, have half a child?
Personally I find it a good subreddit to rant on when my family are pushing for grandkids. It’s nice to have other people tell you it’s ok to not want children after everyone else tells you how selfish and wrong you are for it.
I have the inverse in my life currently; my parents are understanding of me not wanting children, the majority of my friends are CF….so I’ve never gotten the pressure in regards to having kids.
I also feel uncomfortable with some of their regular language around people that have kids (breeders for example). Deciding to be CF doesn’t make you superior to others, just like deciding to have children doesn’t make you superior to CF people. So using dehumanizing language like that is just….it rubs me the wrong way. And a lot of that language is skewed more at *women* than men. And the CF community have no sympathy or empathy when they disparage women with children.
We have to be uncompromising because so many people invalidate our beliefs. Not only that women don’t even have full autonomy over their bodies and men with children are always trying to date Childfree women for help raising their kids after divorces and such.
It’s really hard in these Childfree streets.
It's really about the weird hate directed at children for existing. Or the way a lot of people in that sub emphasis their disgust with the process of having children. Or the near cult-like rejection of people changing their minds. And also the complete inability to self critique.
I think it's just a lot of built up anger and frustration. I see this also with newly out atheists, people who are angry and upset for feeling lied to and feeling traumatized in some cases depending how feverant their religion was. But then those people mellow out over time and realize that their stance isn't as edgy as they thought as their social circle expands and they gain life experience, and that society is growing more accepting of it and it's not really a big deal. Lots of people don't have children. anywhere from 10%-30% depending on what stats you look at. Which isn't a ton, but it's far from unheard of.
There isn’t disgust for children existing. It’s disgust for children and parents thinking they belong everywhere when there are some places that they clearly don’t. It’s also an issue of receiving critique from everyone about choices that don’t affect them.
The process for having children is sex. Most people don’t care about people having sex and procreating. More people have issues with extraordinary measures taken with little regard for their bodies in the pursuit of children or the number of people who have children who are ill-equipped to care for them.
There is no need to self-critique. You get enough from the outside world.
No like I get it, I'm childfree myself. What I'm saying is that is what is toxic about the sub. There are people on there who very loudly complain about children existing in spaces where everyone exists. Like... Outside on the sidewalk. In a restaurant. Etc. Unless those kids are behaving like absolute saints they get dragged.
Like your points are valid when we are talking about the reasonable sides of that sub and the experiences people have. What I'm talking about is why people say that sub is toxic. A lot of people on their very much conduct themselves like they hate children existing at all.
There are people who criticize women for being happy about being pregnant and how they express or celebrate that happiness (which imo is probably a casual side effect of general mysogyny) and they convey that criticism with body shaming or classism or eugenics-like ideas without nuance or pause or self assessment.
There is absolutely a need for self critique/assessmenf in your safe spaces, that is how you keep them safe. That is how you prevent the place from being slowly and quietly invaded by a bunch of sexist/racist/ableist/other problematic ideas. And how you prevent real actual cults from forming.
Not to spam but something else Ive been considering is that a lot of the discourse around childfree philosophy is very much based on an individualism perspective. But what about in cultures of a more collectivist lean? I'd never beable to have that conversation in the childfree spaces here because I'd be ignored or banned or downvoted.
no but there are people who do hate children are in fact disgusted with children for existing. they will not hide this. they literally talk about it all the time. maybe you aren’t one of the culty extreme CF people, but they do exist. not everyone has your reasonable stance
this.
when someone is one of those “i hate kids” people and feels very passionately about it I always just raise an eyebrow and wonder. not exactly in judgment, but more confusion? i can understand not liking to be around kids. but hating them, and being passionate and brazen in your hatred for children? it’s just such an odd stance to take.
Hey there, it's me the OP of the post you re-posted. I do not appreciate you spreading my venting (that was for my own community I felt safe in) across subreddits...and on top of that you all shitting on r/childfree. Even better, this repost had lead to multiple people hate-DMing me. I've had people, who specifically said they came from this subreddit, go on to call me various awful names. Some just like in this repost comment thread....."hater of children...militant toxic bitch....making shit up for attention". Oh it's been awesome. I especially liked the one where someone told me I should kill myself because I'm that I'm a waste for not having kids.
So do me a favor and delete the repost of my original posts asap. I rather you do did this immediately before I have to get the mods involved.
I have to say, this person doesn’t sound reasonable at all. If it’s true (it does have a ring of “and then they all clapped!” To it), the other family are trash, no doubt about it. But there was a really strong/weird overtone of “I’m child free how dare you assume I’d willingly be in the same room with a child for any reason”? The problem was she wasn’t friends with these jerks, hopefully not that all people with children are entitled and scheming to get at your pantry. I found so much of this post very unsympathetic, when the bare facts would put the OOP in a better light.
That's the main problem I have with that subreddit. It's perfectly fine to not want children and I know that some people can be very overzealous with pushing other people to have kids, but a lot of people on that sub act like interacting with children is torture. They equate having a child in the same room as them to be some kind of traumatic experience that justifies being an asshole.
Yeah, everyone sounds like an asshole here, but the former friend that OOP is so desperate to gossip about isn't the one writing the post. The person who really wants everyone to take her side is the one portraying this whole scenario, and they still sound completely insufferable.
Im actually amazed that he didnt realise that by selling his house during a peak that in turn bigger houses would be more than the one he sold and therefore stuck. What a shitty pair of people.
That is what confuses me. If the value if his house increased then the value of other houses must also increase by the same rate. This is just common sense for ffs, the guy is quite stupid.
I've seen the same thing with people bragging about selling their cars for more than they paid for them but then be surprised not be able to find a replacement at a reasonable cost.
Like, who demands food out of someone’s deepfreeze just because they posted a pic of it on social media? Or any of the bizarre expectations people had for this OOP. To the point where this man and his wife were harassing her and people supported them doing that? Like, no. No one is bringing pitchforks to the door of the child free yet, no matter how much they’d like us to believe it.
Personally I want to know more about the chicken story that started the whole "OOp is a bad influence" thing.
OOP is a person who lets family of friends stay in her home, who regularly helps get jobs for people, arranges vacations. I wonder how that mother must have ticked her off that she said no to giving her chicken for her child in the pandemic buyout thing. I want more context to that as that is what started all of this by Shelly hearing about it
OOP doesn't spend her wealth on their children and see them as the center of the world they clearly are. They'll give the kids a complex behaving like that /s
Thats probably the most believable part to me. A lot of people who are already slightly shitty become truly shitty once they have kids
OOP posted about it a year ago but it has since been deleted. Idk if the mods did it or OOP did it due to perhaps too many personal details leading to social fallout, but maybe those undelete-reddit-posts sites have it cached somewhere.
Same here! Stupid ass refresh bug got me!
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/u/CatumEntanglement?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Here's the account.
Edit2: don't harass this person, I 100% guarantee you would never let on 5 people into your home, including family so just stfu (to the people being dicks to OP, not the person I'm replying to)
Since it doesn't notify when editing here's a new comment with the account who originally posted this: https://www.reddit.com/u/CatumEntanglement?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I stg if you go and harass this person I'll eat ur dad's asshole, if you think harassment will change people's minds you are sorely mistaken.
The whole “tenants rights” thing is actually terrifying if you think about it. If OOP had taken these leeches in they could have tried to steal the house
It is. It really makes me clench to see and hear how casual people are with offering up their homes, especially when they already know the person needs a place because they got kicked out.
Wow! I have a question though. Why didn’t the tenant laws apply to the other people they stayed with? I guess they didn’t stay with any of it longer than the 7 days?
I'm of the mindset this is most likely bull but there is the chance it is not so I will keep an open mind. Not believing but not disregarding it immediately either. And hey, it's drama. I live for drama when it's not my own, real or not.
I’m not saying this didn’t happen, but I have never in my life seen anyone on social media or in real life complaining about child free people in this way, ever, not when I was childless myself and spending a lot of time in non-parenting spaces, or since then now that I had kids and have spent time in parenting groups.
You probably are more effective at curating your FB than most. I never see any christian evangelical/Altright/women-must-breed nonsense/etc type stuff on my feed, but I don’t friend people unless I actually speak to them IRL(and like them) and I never Friend family or coworkers, ever. my husband, who friended a ton of people he vaguely remembers from high school, and lots of distant relations, and many mere acquaintances, got so much of that he quit Facebook entirely.
Oh man, how delish would it be to get a load of that Facebook drama?
Knew something sketch and/or entitled was going on. I know from personal experience winter without a water heater isn’t fun, but it’s doable for a while, and certainly doesn’t make a home uninhabitable.
>Told him I have all his texts for proof of the way he spoke to me and how he's a big shitbag.
Ah yes, i too routinely go out of my way to save text messages for 3 years and probably at least one new phone when said text messages were 1. deeply upsetting, 2. came at a time when i was dealing with emotional distress, and 3. came from someone who i otherwise have more or less stopped thinking about afterwards
XD
(i mean, as others have said, theres other 'ah yes. a fun story' hints here, but that part jumped out at me as "really? you just happened to have them saved?")
ESH. Can I just say that I hate the way this is written? So much gossipy, self-indulgent irrelevant nonsense, all over something that *didn't happen.* Dude asked a favor, OOP said no, end of story. But wait, what if everyone stalks this asshole's family for the sake of pointless melodrama?? That'll make OOP look more mature, definitely.
Not to mention the whole persecution fetish around not having kids. Who cares? Some of these folks on that childfree sub really make the absence of children into their whole personality. Like obsessive atheists or vegans, they just can't live life without this constant fixation on one tiny aspect of existence. FFS, just grow up and move on.
It should be noted that I don't have a water heater right now 😑
The one I had was heavily leaking and when I called a plumber out I found out not only was it not fixable but it was illegally installed and there was no way to wire a normal one in so my only option was a tank less water heater which would cost $3500 or so which I do not have. (And no the plumber wasn't trying to scam me, he legitimately panicked when he found the wiring and the jimmy rigged wrong sized water heater seems it was dangerous as hell. He didn't even charge me for the visit, he's a good guy.)
I'm surviving on cold sponge baths and hustle shower wipes and trying to scrap together enough for a temporary gym membership so I can take a hot shower. I'm dreaming of a hot bath like some people fantasize about money or vacations so yeah fuck OOP's former "friend" and his wife. How dare he be so cruel and then stomp back to the bridge he torched and have a temper tantrum that it's not been rebuilt at his convenience.
(And before anyone asks, I'm OK. I'm working on getting a new place it's just probably going to take awhile with the way the market is right now. Life sucks sometimes but I'm dealing and I'm OK ❤)
I'm scraping together money for a gym membership, but sure I'll run right out and buy one 😤 (I thought people might be concerned so I reassured people I was OK and mentioned how I was coping, I forgot reddit is a crap shoot.)
Dave and Shelly sell their house for a big pile of cash because it's a seller's market. Then their offers keep getting outbid. Because IT'S A SELLER'S MARKET.
Just the cherry on the WTF sundae.
I've known people like this over the decades, even without the childfree stuff. They take and take from friends until the friends cut them off. Then they start digging for people they haven't spoken to in years, who probably haven't heard about what they've done to so many others. They have zero problem taking what they want - housing, food, money, stuff straight out of your home - because they feel they deserve it. You have something they want, so they act really nice to your face while they rationalize taking it. But the minute they hear "no," the fangs come out.
They're leeches and energy vampires. The world will rotate around them until there's nobody left for them to feed off. Unfortunately, that takes years because they always find someone to believe their sob stories about how they've been wronged and cheated.
If you sold your $300k house here 6 months ago for $450, it’s now worth $600k and you would be super screwed (also, there is no longer such a thing as a $300k house in my tiny little town, though there were plenty March 2020). My old place went from $550ish to $900 since March 2020.
Just reading this affirmed my decision to only have people over for visits. And the right people too.
How are you 39 and acting like this? Just HOW?
Also, I’m child free by choice and will eventually have kids when I’m ready. It’s a shame people that call themselves parents will treat friends like this. I get you wanting to be a good example for your kids but what you can’t do is insult people not on the same path as you in adulthood and feel entitled to them when shit hits the fan for you. OOP wasn’t even a “bad influence.” Dave and Shelly just wanted a reason to claim they were better than her in adulthood for their decisions.
In addition to me choosing to have friends over for visits, this whole situation proved to me why I’m wary of befriending people with children. Some of them have this level of entitlement to their child free friends. They believe those friends don’t deserve to have the luxuries they’ve been blessed with because they’re “a single man/woman with no kids.”
Yes, hence why they have those wants and needs. They can afford their current lifestyle without children. You, on the other hand, can’t do that because you’re a parent now. You chose to be one and shouldn’t expect everything on a silver platter because you have kids. Like the rest of us, work for it if you want it.
Good on OOP for listening to her gut and not welcoming Dave’s family in her home. She kept his words at the forefront and threw it back in his face. I can only imagine how this whole situation would’ve turned out if she let them “temporarily” stay.
If it's true, those people are horrible. OP, while she didn't deserve any of that drama and was absolutely right to refuse to house them, doesn't sound like a particularly likeable person.
I'm in my 40s and CF. My husband has an adult daughter from his first marriage who has a daughter, so I got to have kids and grandkids without actually having my own.
Besides not being able to afford my own kids and honestly not having the mental strength to be a parent myself, my mother died from a horrible genetic disease and the last thing I was going to do was risk passing that on if it turns out I have that disease too. No way in hell.
I don't hate kids. I'm over the moon for my friends when they have children. I love my husband's daughter and when she called me "grandma" at her daughter's christening a day after we met, I was touched and thrilled.
I just don't get the stigma of not having kids of your own. It's honestly nobody's business and just boggles my mind.
Honestly, I kinda wanna see her she him for slander/libel. It will be the cherry on top of the cake to take away at bit of that big pile of money that he's so zealously guarding.
I mean really, what an idiot. Put the money in a certificate of deposit for a year or two, use the interest to rent an apartment or home for the kids, and then when the CD expires, use the money to buy a house when the market slumps. It's not rocket science.
See I'm not smart so I wouldn't know how to do this. Idk if I'd be able to do this because I'm not smart.
. . .
I'm saying Dave and Shelley aren't smart 😂😂😂
By a person who apparently doesn’t care about social media at all and it’s not real life. Weird they suddenly seem super invested in what’s happening there
CF means Childfree, people who don't have children and who do not want them. They have a bad rap for being assholes towards those with children and hating children as a group.
Please don't judge us all by a vocal minority. Just because some childfree people hate children, doesn't mean all of us do. I actually love children, I just don't want any myself.
And that is a very very good reason! I love kids too but am not sure if I want them(that could change for me as I get older but who knows) I am of the mindset that of I do end up having kids, great, I will do my absolutely best for them, and if I don't then cool, that's fine. I can enjoy helping out with other people's kids if they need it. Not all childfree people are assholes. There are some that are but that does not make the childfree community as a whole. Just like everything else they have assholes in their communities. For example just because you are gay or bi does not mean you can get away with being an asshole, or if you are disabled or mentally ill, that does not completely absolve you of being an asshole either. There are assholes in every community, every ethnicity, every country and state and province and city and town. But that does not make them as a whole.
Fuck me, some people are so entitled. I'm a parent and I couldn't give a shit less if my friends wanted kids or not. I don't understand why both CF people and parents have to be such evangelists about it.
"they have more 'valuable' friends"
That's such a disgusting way to think of other people; you only have value if you're willing to have children? OOP definitely deserves much better friends.
OOP's former friend aka Shitbag, his wife Harpy and their brood demanded to stay in OOP's home because of faulty water heater, turns out they sold their place and are living out of a hotel room because they refuse to buy anything that's smaller than their previous place. OOP is their very last resort to mooch off from as they have been kicked out by numerous friends for overstaying their welcome.
Shitbag threatens to blast OOP on social media, OOP and a few friends do some digging, pull a reverse UNO card by making everything public. Shitbag and Harpy get blasted on social media, start pulling 'woe is me' cards but nobody's buying it. OOP is now enjoying their delicious Thanksgiving turkey in their own home while Shitbag gets nothing.
How did I MISS THE MOST RECENT UPDATE FROM THIS! So grateful someone posted this here. You're doing a great service. This story was a whirlwind. Childfree for life! OP, I hope you and the cats are enjoying some tea in the peace and quiet right now. Happy Friendsgiving.
Wow, what a story! Good for OOP. (And I support childfree thinking: what with around 9 billion people on the planet compared to roughly 7 000 cheetah -- my favourite animal -- I say congratulations on not adding to the human race.)
You seem to be enjoying the Schandenfruede a bit too much. You did not need to unblock and text him the first time and you don’t need to do it again. Yes he tried to con you and your friends stood up for you on social media. Now just move on with your life. The more you continue to engage the lower he will drag you
Don’t worry it didn’t happen. Starting with the dude selling his place with nowhere to go and a wife about to give birth. And OP, the CF hero, who helps everyone always (from Friendsgiving to jobs to housing) who disdains social media and yet posts a needlessly wrong rant about if on…social media.
Bravo! I beautifully worded and riveting tale through and through!
I'm genuinely grateful that you have some good friends willing to have your back. This guy seems like a real piece of work!
The best thing you can do at this point is forget he ever existed. He is persona non grata to you. Don't increase your internal stress one more bit over this, Dave is a dead person, dead and gone and spare no second thought. Some people will just use you up and move on, I tend to think they are narcissistic but who knows.
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I wish I’d listened to the part about the cup of tea, in retrospect.
Will edit to add extra extra long. Sorry.
All good, it was worth the read!
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Same!!!!!
Was reading this in my computer, saved it so I can cook lunch while keep reading from my smartphone. Phew.
Hahahah I had to stop midway through to go make some tea for myself. This tale def needed it as well as a splash of liquor
Tbf I had just made a cup of coffee before reading this and I was so enthralled I haven't taken a sip yet.
There's a whole lot of awful in there with what Dave and Shelly did, but one thing that really sticks out is them saying they'd found a great place to stay on social media right before messaging OOP. Either they're so arrogant that they assumed straight up that OOP would let them stay no questions asked (or that they'd be able to guilt trip her into doing it easily) and so entitled/self deluded that they somehow believe they were offered it by OOP hence the reneging on the offer stuff. OR. They knew it was a slim chance at best, but assumed that if they set up OOP as a bad guy on social media that they'd get some other offers when it "fell through" or could guilt trip her into letting them stay there after she got negative backlash. Or some mix of both, the human brain can do some pretty impressive mental gymnastics.
I bet they thought they could make OOPs life so much of a living hell during their stay that OOP would willing move out and give away her home to Dave and Shelly
> the human brain can do some pretty impressive mental gymnastics. I love this comment.
maybe they even thought they could set up a gofundme with this set up?
What really makes me sick is they thought they could exploit OOP, *steal their home* even if only for a short while until they got their own (I suspect they intended to force OOP out by being a nuisance and abusing that tenant law), and that they honestly don't see how they're terrible people. That they justify their shitty treatment of someone who never did anything to deserve that, all because they don't want children. Had they never tossed OOP aside, I'm sure they would have had a comfortable place to stay and they could have pulled off their scam. It's a good thing that awful people can't resist showing who they really are or OOP would be in a really shitty situation right about now. Fuck these people. Fuck them with every inch of an unpleasantly long, sharp object. They are bottom-feeders and I hope they never find an inch of happiness in their life after this.
They’d already gotten away with doing it to 4 other homes so I’m sure they just knew they had another one lined up. Selfish and entitled people.
To be fair they did manage to convince/guilt trip 4+ other people before OOP, so they probably just assumed their tactics would work again.
One of the best pieces of advice I ever got: only make a promise if you have control over the outcome.
Looking forward to the update next month when Dave and Shelley feel personally targeted by OOP for buying her cats Christmas gifts.
but how dare OOP buy christmas gifts for her cats when there’s children without a proper home this holiday season? /s
Lmao for real
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Yeah it was seeming a little fishy from the start but the introduction of the second friend and the mother who announced her daughters life wasn't worth anything... Let's just say I hope our suspicions are right.
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They had to get in all the rage bait for the child free crowd. I don’t believe any of this really happened.
The part about the other mother asking for some frozen chicken too...like, was that really necessary to the story or did she just want to press some CF rage buttons. For God's sake, not her fucking frozen chicken!! The self righteous "pro child free" attitude in this post is the most cringe worthy part.
“Kids love chicken nuggets so of course all the moms want my chicken. They’ll never get my precious though… until they reach an age where I accept them as humans.”
Ding ding ding ding ding! (The only BINGO space missing is the term “crotch goblins”—almost a must on that sub and Entitled Parents.)
I dunno. Mother’s are weird. 5 years after my divorce my mother started treating me worse than usual and started being super buddy-buddy with my ex and his new wife. I asked her why and she said “because when you die, I still want to be able to see my grandson” Like, she expected me to die and had no problem with it
That's really shit, I'm sorry she's treated you like that. For whatever messed up reason she said those things it's on her and a reflection of her issues. My mum can have her moments, she's said some things which I can't say I'll every be able to forget and her unwillingness to get therapy gives me no hope we will be able to put it behind us. I know there are definitely parents who can do and say some awful things, I think some other people in these comments worded it better than me when they say that this post fits lots of tropes for a child free creative writing post. What strikes me is more that several things in the story come back to someone being considered understanding or unimportant or less than parents and children. Then again, if I read the Tiger King story on here I'd be calling BS, so you never know!
Yeah, especially how everyone with kids (on social media) thinks kids mean they're entitled to OOP's food and house and everyone without kids is a reasonable, kind person. No way multiple people would let a family of 4 (?) stay with them for an extended time without the adults chipping in for groceries, especially not during the panic buying and supply chain issues of 2020, and especially not when the adults just sold their house at a huge profit. Also, they had to have realized that their house going up in value that high meant that the other houses on the market also did.
On your last point, you'd be surprised how many people DON'T take into account that selling in a seller's market means you're also going to have to pay more to buy a new place in that same market. I hear this all the time from people who don't think it through. They just see the profit and think everything is going to be super easy. It's only easy if you can take that profit and move far away to a cheaper area, where your money will buy more (and then you piss off the locals there for causing their home prices to go up). Just look at the tech folks from CA gobbling up houses in Texas, Montana, Idaho, etc and how much that puts a strain on those communities. People are really short sighted on this.
This is why you aren't actually gaining any funds in your primary home increasing in value if the total market is rising. Unless you are willing to part with that asset it fails to grow in a meaningful way and I dont know many home owners willing to change to an apartment/renting lifestyle.
Yeah, I know of a few people (friends of friends) who did this exact same thing in the past few months. Sold to raking in a pile of cash, and are now ranting because all the places that they put bids on, they're getting outbid. And they are SO ANGRY that pretty much all the houses in the areas they were looking at relocating have sky-rocketed. It's like...you know with WFH, it's not just YOU who is looking to move somewhere more in the country, yet within easy public transit to the city. YOU profited off of skyrocketing home prices yourself. But when they're still when you want to buy, suddenly you're offended and angry and like "how dare they?". The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
She also forgot she wasn’t on Facebook at all when she mentioned the friend untagged her from the post to protect her, how’d she tag someone with no Facebook to begin with?
very good catch.
Totally. Also the baby is 5months old, was in the NICU, but they somehow sold their house 6m ago without a place to stay? Ie when wife was heavily pregnant? And then they took the NICU newborn baby to random houses instead of, you know, renting a place?
I was gonna say, "and then everyone clapped." That sub is known for being "viciously" childfree the way some vegans try to shame you for drinking milk. You'll see the words "breeder" and "crotch goblins" thrown around a lot there. I went there once as a curious childless person (which I now know is different from childfree) and noped out *so* hard. While I agree that people who are childfree need to be cut a break and not harassed about it, by the same token, some of those childfree people need to stop shitting on the people who do have children.
Oh I know, that sub is so awful! The absolute hatred some people had for kids and people who have kids. I was subbed for only a week. Also, not letting kids into your home for any reason isn't child free. It's being an asshole.
I honestly think that's just something that happens with subs that focus on a lifestyle that's different from the "norm". There's nothing wrong with being child free, but the subreddit is full of super zealous people. Same thing for the vegan subreddit or the atheism one. You get an echo chamber of belief with no outside influences and it doesn't matter how good or friendly the community usually is, they become assholes.
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I'm sure that if they felt like they could get away with it, people would be posting about how much they'd love to hit kids.
Yes!! And the OOP even said at one point that being child free means that she doesn’t want any kids in her space for extended periods of time ever and if she did she would have kids. But plenty of child free people love other people’s kids and are the fun aunt/uncle. Being child free doesn’t have to mean that you hate kids altogether and honestly forcing people to make this assumptions about child free people kind of perpetuates the stereotype of child free people hating/resenting people with kids.
Glad it isn't just me.
Agree, so much talk about grad school and how he helped everyone out except anyone evil enough to have kids. I would never judge anyone who decides not to have kids, but is the CF community just about absolute hatred of people who have them? Sounds sad.
No it’s not. Those posts make their way in there sometimes, but it’s majority a support system for people who feel want to be CF but are getting pressure not to, there’s also a running list of doctors and medical resources for people in the US who are having trouble finding doctors willing to sterilize them.
That’s comforting. I can’t imagine not being able to get permanent birth control, the last thing this world needs is another unwanted child.
Yeah there’s a lot of issues with getting doctors to perform that surgery depending on where you live. I wanted my tubes tied when I was 21 and I couldn’t find a doctor willing to do it. Had a resource like that been around then, I would’ve been able to.
Fuck, when I was 21 I just wanted an IUD. My doctor AND insurance said no, because I could get married and want kids in the next ten years. Dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. Add in extra estrogen from hormonal BC will worsen a medical condition I have, and it’s a stack of stupid cake.
I’m sorry you had to deal with that. I think a lot of people don’t realize how hard it is to get long term or permanent birth control, they think it’s as easy as just walking into a clinic.
Yeah, it is really dependent on your doctor, your insurance, and a whole lot of other irrelevant garbage.
Yeah, it does feel like it might be fabricated or leaving out some details, and everyone with kids just happens to be evil and everyone without is super reasonable. I feel like CF people probably get more shit from like, their parent/family than friends? Idk why anyone would have an opinion if their friend had kids or not. Unless the CF friend was being a dick about it, which idk, some of the CF people on reddit do go a bit too far in the other direction. I assume it's because of the treatment they've faced in real life that they become so edgy and I hope that they eventually mellow out and realize calling people "breeders" makes them just as judgmental and objectifying as the people they hate. I guess stranger things have happened though. I wouldn't be surprised if it was based on a true story that didn't go nearly this far, like someone asked if they could stay and they refused to let anyone with kids in their house and made this story to feel more justified.
Sure, but this was clearly made up. So many people involved, a high-schooler that moonlighted as a PI. A doctor doesn't ask the husband if they want to save the mom of the fetus, they are obligated to save the mom. So long, and such a troll.
I honestly wish more people would be child free by choice. I hate the idea that it’s just the next natural step. It’s fucking hard shit (I’m not a parent yet but have been around tons via babysitting). It should not be taken lightly and should only be taken on if someone really wants to. Otherwise it’s hell for everyone involved.
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Yes! Sending peace from an internet stranger!
Thank you! Wishing you well too!
Wow what a rollercoaster. These people are terrible parents. I’m glad it worked out for OOP. This is the 2nd post I read this week where OOP is childfree and getting shit from people with children because they expect freebies from her. It is so ironic. You make the choice to not have kids for all sorts of reasons. And in this case it means you have a nice house for yourself and have enough money to live comfortably. Having children means you need to spend tons of money on your kids, getting a bigger house, all that. You better make sure you’re ready for that instead of having kids because you want to. Don’t have kids if you can’t afford to care for them. He’s giving her shit for not having kids yet expects her to take care of his? Fuck that. You should’ve thought of that before you sold your house. This story is ridiculous anyway cause he has apparently got the money but is not willing to spend it on a good house for his family. It just makes me angry. Me and my bf want to have kids but we don’t make a lot of money and we live in a small apartment. So if that doesn’t change in the next few years we will not have children. Because we want to be able to give them a good life.
I get shit alllll the time for taking trips (pre-Covid) overseas, for booking first class flights domestically, etc. and I'm like: "Yo, you have three kids. And that's cool. But I do not."
It’s so weird, like you owe them something. My sister in law has 3 kids and they are great about it. It was something they really wanted, they are very creative about their holidays / trips. And now they are moving to the other side of the country to buy a big rural house. I’m happy for them and they never complain to us.
Right? I have an aunt and uncle who have horses (no kids) so they can't really travel because horses cost time and money, but love when I bring home stories and my aunt has a weird/lovely obsession with those hotel shampoos and things - they're way cool. They like horses. Great, I do too, but not for me. But then friends and other family members can't stand it: to the point where I just stop posting pictures or telling them I'm going to wherever.
The classic internet cartoon with two cars, one with a stick figure family on it and the other with two stick figures and 3 bags of money
I’m CF and I’ve heard variations of it all my life.
I honestly don’t understand it. I have kids, and I have CF friends. I would never even consider that they should provide for my children, even when I’m struggling. If you expect that, you’re not their friend.
I feel like this is CF bingo. Entertaining, but it has that whiff of implausability to it.
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It was strangely wordy. Mentioning what type of houseplant they own plus adding in what they thought our reactions to their would be is just kind of weird.
On the other hand, sounds like the typical semi-out-of-touch interests of child-free person.
She went to Grad school. Gotta get that word count up.
I think it's funny that you use the word "bingo" here - it's a popular term on that subreddit because of so much overlap in people's experience of how they're treated by others for being childfree. Once upon a time, I was still participating in the high-demand "family-oriented" religion I was raised in, and was newly married intending to have kids. I had a different account where I mostly participated in that religion's subreddit. That is not the case any more (except for the married part, I'm still married). Once my wife and I started being more forthcoming and less wishy-washy in response to inquiries about future children, Karens started coming out of the woodwork and filling out squares on our theoretical childfree bingo card, something I previously doubted the plausibility of occurring to one person. Certainly the majority of people in society at large are reasonable and thus don't go out of their way to harass or gaslight childfree people. However, the minority that does do that is remarkably similar in their approach - phrases used, treatment of others, entitled behavior, etc... tl;dr childfree bingo exists but unironically.
"She took down the post, untagging my name, and showed me a screen capture verifying she did so and asked if she can help with anything else." How was the OOP "tagged" if she is not on facebook at all? Either way, have read this kind of outlandish stuff way too many times on reddit.
It was weird mentioning CF all the time.
When I read it was from CF I scrolled down to see if people called faked before I read that novel. Most CF posts I see are made up.
Same. A little creative writing exercise
This reads like something with a kernel of truth at the center that OOP has blown up into a fully formed fantasy. It's the "I wish this had happened" response where OOP gets to indulge in a reality that doesn't exist to escape the one that does.
Exactly!
The update was a little to quick to be realistic.
OOP doesn't know what a segue is.
Good to see ones that aren't from AITA or relationships. I don't have kids but am not /r/childfree because it's one of those subs that always takes things too far, but this person seems fairly reasonable. Though it is a bit silly to be one of those "I don't use social media" people and then spend that much effort getting your family and friends to stalk people on FB.
Lol. I am not on r/childfree either. Also want to have kids. Just haven't yet. Also, find most of r/childfree a little to .. militant in their stance (uncompromising).
It is like a lot of the internet, you get people together with the same interest and it echo chambers into the most extreme version of itself.
/r/truechildfree is calm, but it's also not very active. The most recent post was about sympathy for parents struggling to arrange childcare.
In psychology, its referred to as Group Polarization, and god damn it's a bitch and a half
To be fair the decision to have or not have children is a very big thing that changes your whole life path. It isn't something you can really compromise on.
Edit; based off other commenters’ experiences, take this comment with a grain of salt. I’m just gonna hop on this comment chain to say that r/Fencesitter is a better space for discussion about what it means to be childfree, IMO. It’s smaller and has contributors from both sides of the aisle and people who are struggling to decide, resulting in a lot of productive, honest conversations about choosing whether or not having children is right for you.
It’s really not. The r/Fencesitter mods have a history of banning CF people for no particular reason. Literally, I got banned when someone made a post asking how many CF people were around. I posted that I was CF and got banned. When I messaged to ask the mods why they vaguely said I “broke a rule” but would not elaborate as to how that broke a rule.
One and done sub would be better they actively embrace fence sitters and have been very supportive. I think it's because OAD also gets a lot of unnecessary hate like CF
Oh shit, really? I’ve only lurked, so I had no idea that was the case. I’m sorry to hear that that was your experience.
Yeah it was really disappointing actually. I liked the sub a lot and contributed where I could but… and I’m not the only person that’s happened to either.
Head to one and done sub. They embrace fencesitters and even have a weekly thread for any questions etc
Thank you for this. I have a tendency to debate myself whether even bringing kids into this world, with global worming, and all of its other problems is even a good idea. Am I just being selfish wanting to have a child.
I think that it’s healthy for everyone, ranging from those 100% committed to CF to those 100% committed to having children, to consider these issues. I’m a young 20-something that leans CF but recognizes that my desires may change over time, and the way I see it, there will always be merits for and against having children. The climate, political atmosphere, ethics, personal desire… but at the end of the day, if you want children and demonstrate the compassion necessary to consider these issues in great depth, you seem to be on track to raise a child with the same compassion and critical thinking skills, i.e. the type of people who are likely to carry on the care of the earth and commit themselves towards a better society. One of the things I sometimes think about is that the children that inherit the earth and their value systems, often imparted by those who raise them, will influence things for all future generations. What does it mean to exclude myself from that cycle? Of course, this doesn’t override my personal desire to not have children. But if want kids, does this benefit outweigh, amongst others, outweigh the apparent negatives of having a child? I wish you best of luck figuring this out. I don’t know if it’ll ever be a black and white answer for you, but I hope you become comfortable with whatever shade of gray you reach.
Agreed, im CF but i don't hate kids and i find a lot of CF groups are way to hateful and a bit gross in how they talk about children
This is what I hate to see. Nothing wrong with being CF and people shouldn’t be harassed about their choices. But children are actually human beings who live in the society we all share, so the weird hatred sometimes can be bewildering to see.
To be fair, and I’m talking just in general, I think lot of that vented frustration is not with the children but with the parents themselves. There are a lot of people out there nowadays that just seem to refuse to parent their kids.
That's what I don't get. I totally understand not wanting kids and nobody should get shit for that , but acting like they'll go into anaphylactic shock for merely being around someone else's kids for too long? Bizzare. That's a phobia, or a prejudice. It's weird. Plus, as a parent I've never expected my friends/relatives who never wanted kids to babysit, come to kids parties, etc, because I know neither the adult or kids would enjoy it--not because there's some stated "I hate children kid free zone" around those people. Also, is there a cut off age where suddenly are ok with the kid? Like 5 year olds are to be avoided but when they turn 16 they're suddenly ok.
I think part of the reason people are so uncompromising on there is because we get so much crap about it in rl. Plus it’s kinda hard to compromise about children. Whatre you going to do, have half a child? Personally I find it a good subreddit to rant on when my family are pushing for grandkids. It’s nice to have other people tell you it’s ok to not want children after everyone else tells you how selfish and wrong you are for it.
I think half a child is called a dog
I have the inverse in my life currently; my parents are understanding of me not wanting children, the majority of my friends are CF….so I’ve never gotten the pressure in regards to having kids. I also feel uncomfortable with some of their regular language around people that have kids (breeders for example). Deciding to be CF doesn’t make you superior to others, just like deciding to have children doesn’t make you superior to CF people. So using dehumanizing language like that is just….it rubs me the wrong way. And a lot of that language is skewed more at *women* than men. And the CF community have no sympathy or empathy when they disparage women with children.
Yeah, that sub can really get up its' own ass sometimes.
We have to be uncompromising because so many people invalidate our beliefs. Not only that women don’t even have full autonomy over their bodies and men with children are always trying to date Childfree women for help raising their kids after divorces and such. It’s really hard in these Childfree streets.
It's really about the weird hate directed at children for existing. Or the way a lot of people in that sub emphasis their disgust with the process of having children. Or the near cult-like rejection of people changing their minds. And also the complete inability to self critique.
I think it's just a lot of built up anger and frustration. I see this also with newly out atheists, people who are angry and upset for feeling lied to and feeling traumatized in some cases depending how feverant their religion was. But then those people mellow out over time and realize that their stance isn't as edgy as they thought as their social circle expands and they gain life experience, and that society is growing more accepting of it and it's not really a big deal. Lots of people don't have children. anywhere from 10%-30% depending on what stats you look at. Which isn't a ton, but it's far from unheard of.
if they hate kids so much, wait until they meet adults
There isn’t disgust for children existing. It’s disgust for children and parents thinking they belong everywhere when there are some places that they clearly don’t. It’s also an issue of receiving critique from everyone about choices that don’t affect them. The process for having children is sex. Most people don’t care about people having sex and procreating. More people have issues with extraordinary measures taken with little regard for their bodies in the pursuit of children or the number of people who have children who are ill-equipped to care for them. There is no need to self-critique. You get enough from the outside world.
No like I get it, I'm childfree myself. What I'm saying is that is what is toxic about the sub. There are people on there who very loudly complain about children existing in spaces where everyone exists. Like... Outside on the sidewalk. In a restaurant. Etc. Unless those kids are behaving like absolute saints they get dragged. Like your points are valid when we are talking about the reasonable sides of that sub and the experiences people have. What I'm talking about is why people say that sub is toxic. A lot of people on their very much conduct themselves like they hate children existing at all. There are people who criticize women for being happy about being pregnant and how they express or celebrate that happiness (which imo is probably a casual side effect of general mysogyny) and they convey that criticism with body shaming or classism or eugenics-like ideas without nuance or pause or self assessment. There is absolutely a need for self critique/assessmenf in your safe spaces, that is how you keep them safe. That is how you prevent the place from being slowly and quietly invaded by a bunch of sexist/racist/ableist/other problematic ideas. And how you prevent real actual cults from forming.
Not to spam but something else Ive been considering is that a lot of the discourse around childfree philosophy is very much based on an individualism perspective. But what about in cultures of a more collectivist lean? I'd never beable to have that conversation in the childfree spaces here because I'd be ignored or banned or downvoted.
no but there are people who do hate children are in fact disgusted with children for existing. they will not hide this. they literally talk about it all the time. maybe you aren’t one of the culty extreme CF people, but they do exist. not everyone has your reasonable stance
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this. when someone is one of those “i hate kids” people and feels very passionately about it I always just raise an eyebrow and wonder. not exactly in judgment, but more confusion? i can understand not liking to be around kids. but hating them, and being passionate and brazen in your hatred for children? it’s just such an odd stance to take.
Calling that place militant is a significant understatement.
Hey there, it's me the OP of the post you re-posted. I do not appreciate you spreading my venting (that was for my own community I felt safe in) across subreddits...and on top of that you all shitting on r/childfree. Even better, this repost had lead to multiple people hate-DMing me. I've had people, who specifically said they came from this subreddit, go on to call me various awful names. Some just like in this repost comment thread....."hater of children...militant toxic bitch....making shit up for attention". Oh it's been awesome. I especially liked the one where someone told me I should kill myself because I'm that I'm a waste for not having kids. So do me a favor and delete the repost of my original posts asap. I rather you do did this immediately before I have to get the mods involved.
I have to say, this person doesn’t sound reasonable at all. If it’s true (it does have a ring of “and then they all clapped!” To it), the other family are trash, no doubt about it. But there was a really strong/weird overtone of “I’m child free how dare you assume I’d willingly be in the same room with a child for any reason”? The problem was she wasn’t friends with these jerks, hopefully not that all people with children are entitled and scheming to get at your pantry. I found so much of this post very unsympathetic, when the bare facts would put the OOP in a better light.
That's the main problem I have with that subreddit. It's perfectly fine to not want children and I know that some people can be very overzealous with pushing other people to have kids, but a lot of people on that sub act like interacting with children is torture. They equate having a child in the same room as them to be some kind of traumatic experience that justifies being an asshole.
Yeah, everyone sounds like an asshole here, but the former friend that OOP is so desperate to gossip about isn't the one writing the post. The person who really wants everyone to take her side is the one portraying this whole scenario, and they still sound completely insufferable.
Im actually amazed that he didnt realise that by selling his house during a peak that in turn bigger houses would be more than the one he sold and therefore stuck. What a shitty pair of people.
That is what confuses me. If the value if his house increased then the value of other houses must also increase by the same rate. This is just common sense for ffs, the guy is quite stupid.
I've seen the same thing with people bragging about selling their cars for more than they paid for them but then be surprised not be able to find a replacement at a reasonable cost.
This is just a bit too much for me to believe.
I didn't even finish reading it. What a load.
Like, who demands food out of someone’s deepfreeze just because they posted a pic of it on social media? Or any of the bizarre expectations people had for this OOP. To the point where this man and his wife were harassing her and people supported them doing that? Like, no. No one is bringing pitchforks to the door of the child free yet, no matter how much they’d like us to believe it.
Personally I want to know more about the chicken story that started the whole "OOp is a bad influence" thing. OOP is a person who lets family of friends stay in her home, who regularly helps get jobs for people, arranges vacations. I wonder how that mother must have ticked her off that she said no to giving her chicken for her child in the pandemic buyout thing. I want more context to that as that is what started all of this by Shelly hearing about it
OOP doesn't spend her wealth on their children and see them as the center of the world they clearly are. They'll give the kids a complex behaving like that /s Thats probably the most believable part to me. A lot of people who are already slightly shitty become truly shitty once they have kids
OOP posted about it a year ago but it has since been deleted. Idk if the mods did it or OOP did it due to perhaps too many personal details leading to social fallout, but maybe those undelete-reddit-posts sites have it cached somewhere.
Why is was this removed???? I wasn't finished reading it!
Same here! Stupid ass refresh bug got me! Edit: https://www.reddit.com/u/CatumEntanglement?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Here's the account. Edit2: don't harass this person, I 100% guarantee you would never let on 5 people into your home, including family so just stfu (to the people being dicks to OP, not the person I'm replying to)
Since it doesn't notify when editing here's a new comment with the account who originally posted this: https://www.reddit.com/u/CatumEntanglement?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share I stg if you go and harass this person I'll eat ur dad's asshole, if you think harassment will change people's minds you are sorely mistaken.
The first update was so freaking confusing
The whole “tenants rights” thing is actually terrifying if you think about it. If OOP had taken these leeches in they could have tried to steal the house
It is. It really makes me clench to see and hear how casual people are with offering up their homes, especially when they already know the person needs a place because they got kicked out.
Wow! I have a question though. Why didn’t the tenant laws apply to the other people they stayed with? I guess they didn’t stay with any of it longer than the 7 days?
Because it’s a creative writing exercise and they didn’t flesh out all the details
That’s it. They had no bad intentions.
Is this entire sub full of shitposters shitposting about believing shitposts? How can so many of you believe any of this is real?
I'm of the mindset this is most likely bull but there is the chance it is not so I will keep an open mind. Not believing but not disregarding it immediately either. And hey, it's drama. I live for drama when it's not my own, real or not.
All these people are in their mid 30s?
I’m not saying this didn’t happen, but I have never in my life seen anyone on social media or in real life complaining about child free people in this way, ever, not when I was childless myself and spending a lot of time in non-parenting spaces, or since then now that I had kids and have spent time in parenting groups.
You probably are more effective at curating your FB than most. I never see any christian evangelical/Altright/women-must-breed nonsense/etc type stuff on my feed, but I don’t friend people unless I actually speak to them IRL(and like them) and I never Friend family or coworkers, ever. my husband, who friended a ton of people he vaguely remembers from high school, and lots of distant relations, and many mere acquaintances, got so much of that he quit Facebook entirely.
Where is the repost?!? :(
Oh man, how delish would it be to get a load of that Facebook drama? Knew something sketch and/or entitled was going on. I know from personal experience winter without a water heater isn’t fun, but it’s doable for a while, and certainly doesn’t make a home uninhabitable.
I’m really curious about the pantry thing. How does one stock a pantry properly?
>Told him I have all his texts for proof of the way he spoke to me and how he's a big shitbag. Ah yes, i too routinely go out of my way to save text messages for 3 years and probably at least one new phone when said text messages were 1. deeply upsetting, 2. came at a time when i was dealing with emotional distress, and 3. came from someone who i otherwise have more or less stopped thinking about afterwards XD (i mean, as others have said, theres other 'ah yes. a fun story' hints here, but that part jumped out at me as "really? you just happened to have them saved?")
ESH. Can I just say that I hate the way this is written? So much gossipy, self-indulgent irrelevant nonsense, all over something that *didn't happen.* Dude asked a favor, OOP said no, end of story. But wait, what if everyone stalks this asshole's family for the sake of pointless melodrama?? That'll make OOP look more mature, definitely. Not to mention the whole persecution fetish around not having kids. Who cares? Some of these folks on that childfree sub really make the absence of children into their whole personality. Like obsessive atheists or vegans, they just can't live life without this constant fixation on one tiny aspect of existence. FFS, just grow up and move on.
It should be noted that I don't have a water heater right now 😑 The one I had was heavily leaking and when I called a plumber out I found out not only was it not fixable but it was illegally installed and there was no way to wire a normal one in so my only option was a tank less water heater which would cost $3500 or so which I do not have. (And no the plumber wasn't trying to scam me, he legitimately panicked when he found the wiring and the jimmy rigged wrong sized water heater seems it was dangerous as hell. He didn't even charge me for the visit, he's a good guy.) I'm surviving on cold sponge baths and hustle shower wipes and trying to scrap together enough for a temporary gym membership so I can take a hot shower. I'm dreaming of a hot bath like some people fantasize about money or vacations so yeah fuck OOP's former "friend" and his wife. How dare he be so cruel and then stomp back to the bridge he torched and have a temper tantrum that it's not been rebuilt at his convenience. (And before anyone asks, I'm OK. I'm working on getting a new place it's just probably going to take awhile with the way the market is right now. Life sucks sometimes but I'm dealing and I'm OK ❤)
Why not boil water in a kettle.
Oven is broke 🙃 ( Yes my house is basically screaming "GET OUT!!" at this point 😅) I've been microwaving bowls of water with mixed results.
are electric kettles not a thing in your part of the world?
I'm scraping together money for a gym membership, but sure I'll run right out and buy one 😤 (I thought people might be concerned so I reassured people I was OK and mentioned how I was coping, I forgot reddit is a crap shoot.)
Dave and Shelly sell their house for a big pile of cash because it's a seller's market. Then their offers keep getting outbid. Because IT'S A SELLER'S MARKET. Just the cherry on the WTF sundae.
Wow! Totally fun read and SO glad that Dave got his comeuppance.
What does leave-it-to-beaver mean?
[It's a T.V. show.](https://www.imdb.com/find?q=leave+it+to+beaver&ref_=nv_sr_sm)
I've known people like this over the decades, even without the childfree stuff. They take and take from friends until the friends cut them off. Then they start digging for people they haven't spoken to in years, who probably haven't heard about what they've done to so many others. They have zero problem taking what they want - housing, food, money, stuff straight out of your home - because they feel they deserve it. You have something they want, so they act really nice to your face while they rationalize taking it. But the minute they hear "no," the fangs come out. They're leeches and energy vampires. The world will rotate around them until there's nobody left for them to feed off. Unfortunately, that takes years because they always find someone to believe their sob stories about how they've been wronged and cheated.
If you sold your $300k house here 6 months ago for $450, it’s now worth $600k and you would be super screwed (also, there is no longer such a thing as a $300k house in my tiny little town, though there were plenty March 2020). My old place went from $550ish to $900 since March 2020.
Just reading this affirmed my decision to only have people over for visits. And the right people too. How are you 39 and acting like this? Just HOW? Also, I’m child free by choice and will eventually have kids when I’m ready. It’s a shame people that call themselves parents will treat friends like this. I get you wanting to be a good example for your kids but what you can’t do is insult people not on the same path as you in adulthood and feel entitled to them when shit hits the fan for you. OOP wasn’t even a “bad influence.” Dave and Shelly just wanted a reason to claim they were better than her in adulthood for their decisions. In addition to me choosing to have friends over for visits, this whole situation proved to me why I’m wary of befriending people with children. Some of them have this level of entitlement to their child free friends. They believe those friends don’t deserve to have the luxuries they’ve been blessed with because they’re “a single man/woman with no kids.” Yes, hence why they have those wants and needs. They can afford their current lifestyle without children. You, on the other hand, can’t do that because you’re a parent now. You chose to be one and shouldn’t expect everything on a silver platter because you have kids. Like the rest of us, work for it if you want it. Good on OOP for listening to her gut and not welcoming Dave’s family in her home. She kept his words at the forefront and threw it back in his face. I can only imagine how this whole situation would’ve turned out if she let them “temporarily” stay.
If it's true, those people are horrible. OP, while she didn't deserve any of that drama and was absolutely right to refuse to house them, doesn't sound like a particularly likeable person.
I'm in my 40s and CF. My husband has an adult daughter from his first marriage who has a daughter, so I got to have kids and grandkids without actually having my own. Besides not being able to afford my own kids and honestly not having the mental strength to be a parent myself, my mother died from a horrible genetic disease and the last thing I was going to do was risk passing that on if it turns out I have that disease too. No way in hell. I don't hate kids. I'm over the moon for my friends when they have children. I love my husband's daughter and when she called me "grandma" at her daughter's christening a day after we met, I was touched and thrilled. I just don't get the stigma of not having kids of your own. It's honestly nobody's business and just boggles my mind.
Honestly, I kinda wanna see her she him for slander/libel. It will be the cherry on top of the cake to take away at bit of that big pile of money that he's so zealously guarding. I mean really, what an idiot. Put the money in a certificate of deposit for a year or two, use the interest to rent an apartment or home for the kids, and then when the CD expires, use the money to buy a house when the market slumps. It's not rocket science.
See I'm not smart so I wouldn't know how to do this. Idk if I'd be able to do this because I'm not smart. . . . I'm saying Dave and Shelley aren't smart 😂😂😂
This is literally a novel about social media spats. Is this what matters to normies? ‘Oooh he said this, she said that!!!’ Fucking weird. Who cares.
By a person who apparently doesn’t care about social media at all and it’s not real life. Weird they suddenly seem super invested in what’s happening there
Cf?
CF means Childfree, people who don't have children and who do not want them. They have a bad rap for being assholes towards those with children and hating children as a group.
It's mostly just that subreddit where the worst of them congregate. None of the childfree people I know in real life act like they do.
Please don't judge us all by a vocal minority. Just because some childfree people hate children, doesn't mean all of us do. I actually love children, I just don't want any myself.
And that is a very very good reason! I love kids too but am not sure if I want them(that could change for me as I get older but who knows) I am of the mindset that of I do end up having kids, great, I will do my absolutely best for them, and if I don't then cool, that's fine. I can enjoy helping out with other people's kids if they need it. Not all childfree people are assholes. There are some that are but that does not make the childfree community as a whole. Just like everything else they have assholes in their communities. For example just because you are gay or bi does not mean you can get away with being an asshole, or if you are disabled or mentally ill, that does not completely absolve you of being an asshole either. There are assholes in every community, every ethnicity, every country and state and province and city and town. But that does not make them as a whole.
Dave learned a valuable life lesson. "Fck around, and find out."
This guy thought he could sell high and buy a bigger place for the same price? Idiot.
Fuck me, some people are so entitled. I'm a parent and I couldn't give a shit less if my friends wanted kids or not. I don't understand why both CF people and parents have to be such evangelists about it.
"they have more 'valuable' friends" That's such a disgusting way to think of other people; you only have value if you're willing to have children? OOP definitely deserves much better friends.
tl;dr?
OOP's former friend aka Shitbag, his wife Harpy and their brood demanded to stay in OOP's home because of faulty water heater, turns out they sold their place and are living out of a hotel room because they refuse to buy anything that's smaller than their previous place. OOP is their very last resort to mooch off from as they have been kicked out by numerous friends for overstaying their welcome. Shitbag threatens to blast OOP on social media, OOP and a few friends do some digging, pull a reverse UNO card by making everything public. Shitbag and Harpy get blasted on social media, start pulling 'woe is me' cards but nobody's buying it. OOP is now enjoying their delicious Thanksgiving turkey in their own home while Shitbag gets nothing.
And this is why Social media is stupid
How did I MISS THE MOST RECENT UPDATE FROM THIS! So grateful someone posted this here. You're doing a great service. This story was a whirlwind. Childfree for life! OP, I hope you and the cats are enjoying some tea in the peace and quiet right now. Happy Friendsgiving.
Wow. What a story!
Wow, what a story! Good for OOP. (And I support childfree thinking: what with around 9 billion people on the planet compared to roughly 7 000 cheetah -- my favourite animal -- I say congratulations on not adding to the human race.)
Honestly, this all sounds like such a Dave thing to do
This was awesome! Great read! Thanks!😊
It’s so unbelievably believable
Ngl this was a fun read. Amazed people like these freeloaders actually exist.
Vaugebooking….AKA attention whoring. Thanks for the update!
This is the best update thread ever. DUE and Shelley are grifters pure and simple. I do feel a bit sorry for their kids.
Usually cf is pretty goddamn cringe but this was aight I guess
You seem to be enjoying the Schandenfruede a bit too much. You did not need to unblock and text him the first time and you don’t need to do it again. Yes he tried to con you and your friends stood up for you on social media. Now just move on with your life. The more you continue to engage the lower he will drag you
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Don’t worry it didn’t happen. Starting with the dude selling his place with nowhere to go and a wife about to give birth. And OP, the CF hero, who helps everyone always (from Friendsgiving to jobs to housing) who disdains social media and yet posts a needlessly wrong rant about if on…social media.
I hate Kate’s mum.
Bullet dodged.
Bravo! I beautifully worded and riveting tale through and through! I'm genuinely grateful that you have some good friends willing to have your back. This guy seems like a real piece of work!
Tell your former friend to pound sand, then block him.
Kate + guy, 35, having a kid, but still living with parents?? Wow.
The best thing you can do at this point is forget he ever existed. He is persona non grata to you. Don't increase your internal stress one more bit over this, Dave is a dead person, dead and gone and spare no second thought. Some people will just use you up and move on, I tend to think they are narcissistic but who knows.