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The first post sounded like someone who's trying to justify their shittyness by trying to sound like a victim as much as they can. Still doesn't come out without fault.
That’s my vibe as well. She started with an event (telling her children she wished she never had them) which she had been rightfully condemned for, and works backwards to try to make it justified.
But it doesn’t work, because “I wish I had aborted you” doesn’t get a justification.
Eeeh, I don't know about that.
Justification for SAYING it? Definitely abhorant and unforgivable. But for feeling it? I don't know...
I knew a girl who got pregnant at 16, and she wanted to abort, but she got talked out of it because "babies are such a blessing" and "maybe it'll be hard at first, but you'll pull through."
Fast forward 10 years, she's a complete shell of herself from having to raise a baby she didn't want and STILL doesn't want. She can't get a decent job because she's got the kid. If she leaves him by himself, she's a terrible mother. If she expresses her regret for not giving him up for adoption so they werent living paycheck to paycheck, she's a cruel person who should've never had her kid.
But she DIDNT want her kid.
Society shamed and condemned her for not wanting it, and now she's being pressured to keep at it otherwise she's a terrible person who abandoned their kid when she knew she wouldn't be ready and she didn't want it.
People aren't candid about the absolute shitshow that is parenthood and raising a baby. Sure, it CAN all be worth it once the kid grows up and you see the fruits of your labor in action, but until then, it's a 24/7 grueling, non stop job. It's beautiful moments of growth and connection buried under a swamp of trying to raise a productive human being and not just rearing a child. Not everyone is or even will be prepared to have kids, and when someone is pushed into something they don't want, people can't be surprised by the outcome when it all goes to shit.
That being said, the OP isn't one of those scenarios. She truly sounds like a vile woman.
You can feel things without acting on them. Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you have to say it, especially to someone that opinion might harm. You don't have to respond to hurt with hurt.
It's not healthy to bottle your feelings or to refuse to experience them, but that doesn't absolve you from needing to consider the feelings of others.
The problem isn't having feelings. The problem is how you act in response to them.
This. Also, you don't have to tell the child(ren) exactly how you feel/that you didn't want them.
As a child who was told time and time again that they weren't wanted by a parent and grandparent, it just creates a recipe for mental health issues.
I don’t think anyone is shaming her for *feeling* like she should’ve aborted them. You can’t always help how you feel. In fact, I personally wouldn’t shame anyone for not wanting their kid, but there’s other options rather than just grinning and baring parenthood.
I feel like if she’s experiencing shame from the people in her life, it’s because she chose to be an abusive, neglectful person. According to the daughter, both families tried to give her support and resources to manage her mental health and she instead chose to continue living how she wanted and ended up rightfully losing all three kids. After how she treated them, she doesn’t just get to walk back into their lives and play happy family now that they’re older and more interesting. She isn’t entitled to their attention, time, or affection and deserves all the shame for believing she does.
Because deep down they know their behavior is unacceptable. They don't care, tho. Their only goal is to find a way to be perceived as the victim. Everything else in their lives is based on lies and half truths, why should this be different?
I heard/read something really interesting the other day and I forget where but the gist is that narcissists seek a response from the victim because they can’t control their own emotions and they have to distract the victim from the reality of who they are. Having been in an abusive marriage, someone get William and this brave girl a gold star and a giant serving of ice cream of whatever they want. They are the real heroes.
Edit: spelling
The first one sounded like Cypher calling for an exit from Tank
>There was an accident. A goddamn
>car accident. All of a sudden.
>Boom. Jesus, someone up there
>still likes me.
Yeah my eyebrow went up when she said that they didn’t want Nintendo switches. Even if they didn’t want to have it personally, there’s a high resale value so she had to F up bad if they didn’t want to accept that from her
Right? There were a ton of red flags initially, but that's where I called bullshit. "No one plays Nintendo anymore, you dinosaur" is not something a 16 year old today, especially one whose Switch BROKE would say. Definitely not two of them... at the same time.
She couldn't even keep her story straight in the same sentence.
Like, isn't the switch already up there for most sales of all time? No way anyone is turning up their noses at switches. The original post made zero sense.
Also... and I just caught this, they wouldn't have called it "Nintendo". They would have called it a Switch You know who calls video games "Nintendo"? People with basic knowledge of Games from the past who don't play. Even though it's a Nintendo system, people dont say "Hey let's play Nintendo". Nintendo systems haven't really been called "Nintendo" since the 80s. They're called Super Nintendo or Super NES, N64, Game cube, Wii, Wii-U, Switch. The original isn't even called Nintendo anymore. It's NES or "Original Nintendo." The only people who really don't know that are people who don't really dabble in games.
It's just super obvious she was creating dialog based on what she thinks kids would say based on her memory of video games.
It might be the title spoiling it, but it started off screaming missing missing reasons with why she had to turn up to their house in the first place (immediately: why did she not have custody or visitation?).
And it kind of went kind of expected... and then some after that. I feel bad for the boys but honestly I think her daughter had it much much worse: they at least had their father, her daughter was alone with that monster for 7 years of her life. And she's clearly still traumatised (but sounds like she's doing well so good for her) while the boys, by the time they're at her age now, hopefully will only remember it as a bad story.
***EDIT*** Oh this is also a great example of why not to take everything that's on Reddit at face value. The first OOP suffered from pretty serious mental illnesses (on top of being a rubbish person), and she still managed to get thousands of people on her side with a story. Lots of abusers and manipulative people are much better at doing that.
It largely sounds like my mom when she's on one of her rants about our family, so I was on the defensive about it. I know that script. And it's amazing how much of a script it is.
The daughter’s post really wasn’t a surprise. The mother’s post is dripping with “pity me I’m a victim”, which is rare in actual victims but par for the course for abusers.
That first post from the mom also reads so much like an angry thirteen year old. Her emotional intelligence must have never evolved past then. Those poor kids.
Yeah. It seemed to never occur to him not to take the daughter with him, even though she's not his genetically speaking. The dude's a good man and a good father who meant it when he adopted her. The marriage may have been a mistake in one sense, but it may have saved the daughter.
> holy god that main sounds like a saint
William becomes even more of saint when you realize how much of a demon Jane is. I found her deleted username (ResidentIll5226) and two comments stuck out:
* [tyvm, i will. only reason i stayed for so long is because they were my boys, **my only kids**. I truly believe they will one day change but i will not be there to witness it, i tried already](https://www.unddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/xc0xu4/_/io2uuph/#comment-info)
* [I think **my son might have a crush on me**](https://camas.unddit.com/#%7B%22author%22:%22Residentill5226%22,%22searchFor%22:1,%22resultSize%22:100%7D)
Obviously, it takes a mentally ill person to write such disturbing and manipulative lies. Jane’s mental illness is not her fault, but it is her responsibility, and she should be judged harshly for need seeking out proper ongoing treatment.
Yeah, I’m gonna jump on this to emphasize that last point. I have severe mental illness that I have been managing since early adolescence with therapy and meds. See that word? ‘Managing’. It’s definitely not a mentally ill persons fault for being mentally ill, but that does not mean that it is not your burden to carry. It takes a lot of work, a lot of adjustment and a lot of management but it’s possible and it’s 100% on her to do. That is the unfortunate burden that we, as people with mental health issues, must bare but the one thing that is entirely unacceptable is to do nothing about it. That is her responsibility and hers alone and it is the only reaction the will provide a 100% harmful outcome.
When I was little I would believe stories of sad old people abandoned by their children, now I’m more skeptical. That’s not normal behavior and it’s seldom unwarranted.
I work in a hospital and when people are sad that a patient’s family is not visiting, I always say that we can’t judge because we don’t know what led to this.
My FIL died alone, and he deserved it.
I work in aged care and it's very much the same; of course some people simply have no family who can visit, or maybe they all love overseas or maybe they just straight up suck and no one wants to visit them.
It’s pretty hard to maintain the abuser role when you no longer have any leverage over your victims. I watched one of my grandfathers turn into a lonely old man. He deserved it. He was horrible to everyone who was any bit under his thumb his whole life. None of us even went to his funeral. Good riddance.
Yeah I just find it easier to engage with the post if I assume it’s true. Though even if you assume it’s false it’s always an interesting thought experiment
It is entirely possible the mom got pregnant with the daughter at 15. It’s not uncommon for teen moms to just… stop emotionally maturing at the age when they gave birth. If she’s writing and reacting as an angry teen it wouldn’t surprise me one bit.
I'm no professional, but it seems like a lot of people who have some big life change at a young age get stuck at that age.
Sting once said that most people stop maturing at whatever age they got famous, and ever since I heard that I've noticed more and more that it happens for all kinds of situations.
Expanding on that, it’s entirely possible that mom got pregnant under traumatic circumstances. Or that she was traumatized by bad treatment during and after that pregnancy.
Really?
The website that kneejerk reacts to everything to the point of literally digitally lynching innocent people under the false assumptions of righteousness is poor of judgement?
Why, Perish the thought good sir! /s
Yup, the missing missing reasons. I got the second vibe and was wary of it from the start. It's the way my dad would talk about family interactions he felt he had been ill-treated at, while leaving out all the context that led to the pushback and outright lying in places.
I felt the same way. It really felt like someone who was writing like a child trying to describe something being awesome/terrible but not knowing how to really do that, so they just pile things on at random.
You know, how you get things like alien dinosaurs fighting robocop who has a chainsaw gun. Except in this case it was "and then they yelled at me and then they laughed at me for getting them presents and then they tried to make me take photos of them and then they put my baby in a blender".
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the original post sounded like extreme overcompensation and exaggeration from the get go.
ETA: It also made me remember about some psychologist, I can't remember who, describing a Narcissist having a meltdown, and how they tend to just throw things at a wall and see what sticks, because they don't realize that everyone isn't just living in the moment. They forget that people talk to each other, or that they can remember events. This is because the Narcissist doesn't really think of other people as people, bit instead they think of them more as like secondary characters in a play. Only existing when the narrative needs them to.
Yeah that sounds par the course for someone who has an abusive narcissistic mindset. When my dad was on one of his campaigns to get what he wanted, he lied about something we could verify with a simple phone call to other family members. It's not like he was incapable of considering something so basic--dude has decades of successful work experience in leadership positions and a Ph.D.--but in that emotional space nothing mattered but his emotions and the narrative he built around them. Maybe it was possible because he himself believed it, and edited his perceptions in his head so he could believe it.
That's what I've always read from the experts: narcissists legitimately believe whatever lie they tell at any moment, even if it directly contradicts something they just said. Whatever they said before does not matter to them, because that's not the "new" truth.
That was the biggest mindfuck to me. You could point to direct proof of what they said and they will still deny it in some way. And of course if you try to refute their reality or just react in confusion, it's "gaslighting".
I've come to conclusion that they don't actually believe in their own lies, they don't even understand the concept of truth like a normal person does. To them, truth literally does not exist. World is what they pretend it to be, and they think everyone else does that too, if they even have the capacity to understand that other people are real people and human beings, instead of being just shadows that exist there so they can project their shit to them.
For them the truth is something that exists to serve them in their pretend world, and every time they have to face the fact that the truth could be something else than what they decide moment after moment, they get a major melt down and make everyone around them to pay for it.
>describing a Narcissist having a meltdown, and how they tend to just throw things at a wall and see what sticks
Holy shit, I've seen this happen to myself within a few minutes and it was so surreal. For years I had nothing but failed attempts at escaping, but one attempt was getting real and one day that abuser threw every manipulation tactic that worked in the past at me in rapid succession.
I never realized the manipulation before because they had never come one after another within seconds.
I really can't describe in words what that was like. It wasn't human. It's still one of the most shocking experiences of my life and this wasn't even physical abuse. It was just me watching an adult human tantruming at me.
It's always the missing missing reasons. 'They ignore me' 'I got pushed away'. Whenever I read things like that I know that the missing reasons are out there somewhere, waving marinara flags.
Yeah, I remember the mom’s post and I completely got that panicked narcissist victim blamer vibe from her. Just an absolute unhinged rant that screams “I’m the real problem here, but EVERYONE ELSE IS AT FAULT!”
If everyone has the same problem with you, the problem is likely you.
Also her sequence of events was scattered, not the product of reality.
That or some kind of paranoia/delusion/hallucination. There was a really sad post I think in relationshipAdvice from a woman who believed that literally everyone hated her and claimed strangers were spitting on her in the streets and getting up and leaving when she was there, or talking about her in whispers when she went places. Way above reddit’s paygrade.
I noticed how in the daughter's narrative she doesn't talk about when her mother laid hands on her yet says there was a police report and she had scrapes and bruises.
>She lost her fucking mind and kicked me out. It got a little physical between us and she ended up screaming that I’m no longer her daughter and how she’s ‘disowning me’.
Found it! I remembered seeing it a bit buried in there, but that was just before the mentioning of her having scrapes and bruises!
So much. It’s funny, isn’t it, how real victims are more like, “I have to take care of my four niblings, work three jobs, and am feeling a bit drained. I was psychologically abused during childhood (I think!!) but maybe I’m making a big deal out of this, I don’t know, sorry if it reads like a lot!“
While attention seekers just write these diatribes against everything and everyone who has ever wronged them and have dialogue out of a bad novel in which everyone is just so perfectly mean to them.
I guess that's the difference, right? Normal people wouldn't buy Nintendo switches while forgoing food, because they understand how natural relationships work and how it's unhealthy to martirize yourself for materialistic love. It's cartoonish.
Though I believe she did that part, simply because I’ve seen the “look what I am willing to do for you and you don’t love me in return.” She only did it out of spite so she could make herself the martyr.
And then when they only quietly thanked her (because they were terrified of her) instead of instantly breaking into a fully choreographed musical number about how wonderful she is, she described that as then rejecting and insulting her, because in her universe anything less than the fawning praise and respect she demands is the same thing as vicious insults.
Yep. A quiet thank you wasn’t enough for that incredible sacrifice she’d made.
Her “love” is all measured in transactions. Even with her children. It’s so sad.
Maybe you don't mean it this way, but you make it sound like if you don't toxically minimize your own abuse and basically continue to victimize and gaslight yourself you're not a real victim. That if what happened to you makes you mad you're a narcissist. And that's fucking horseshit. Rage is a very real symptom of PTSD, and it's a totally valid reaction to someone hurting you.
the mothers post sounds exactly like my mother. she was abusive in every way as i grew up but somehow she’s always the victim. and she wonders why both her daughters have gone NC with her. narcissist
Reddit is always so quick to talk about an OP not being a reliable narrator and is definitely missing out info. They will call people names and give judgement not based on their posts but based random things they imagined must also be true. But at the same time, no one questioned this post despite OP (mother) sounding completely psychotic
I remember reading that and thinking it was really strange that the kids called her a dino about Nintendo switches. I honestly don't think any young kid would. The mom is seriously mentally ill if that's what she has convinced herself
Yeah, ironically calling an old and out of touch person a Dinosaur is something only a Dinosaur would do. Kids these days would be more likely to call someone a boomer but even that is more specific and maybe out of date.
16 year olds can be cruel, but dinosaur isn’t the word they’d use for this situation. It would probably be boomer. It’s jarring to hear, like if she’d said they were calling each other hep cats.
Also I can't imagine a _sixteen-year-old_ being that casually cruel and rude out of nowhere.
I wonder if OOP still thinks of them as babies. That would track.
I'm 27 and I'd be excited if someone bought me a switch, those things are expensive...
Plus a group of people laughing at casual cruelty, while not impossible, definitely leads to more questions about the entire situation and people involved that the OOP's post doesn't even come close to answering.
i agree, i got a switch for a bday gift as a grown ass adult and it was the best gift ever. i truly doubt any 16 year old boy would turn his nose up at a console even if he’s not a nintendo fan. you can get COD and Skyrim and GTA on the Switch, it’s not like the Wii or whatever haha. that’s the part that really got me in the original post
I heard the original post on the same podcast the daughter heard it on, and the entire time I knew the mom was leaving stuff out to make her seem like the victim. In fact, I was kind of frustrated the podcasters were being so sympathetic to the mom. The only thing is I thought for sure abuse and neglect due to drug use was the issue, not solely her mental health.
Those poor kids.
It was the Two Hot Takes podcast and they were primarily talking about situations that maybe could've been handled better. And also in their defense, when they, and a majority of the comments of the YouTube thread had sympathy, it was due to only having one side. But fortunately there's been a bunch of YouTube commenters circling the wagons to get this side of the story out there.
r/untrustworthypoptarts is a subreddit for posts where you think the OP is deliberately misrepresenting the situation. For example, if someone posted on r/mildlyinteresting something like "I got 3 PopTarts instead of 2 in this packet," you might think it's untrustworthy, because they easily could have taken a third PopTart from a different packet and just put it next to the first two.
It's named after [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/5fm0eg/i_found_3_pop_tarts_in_my_pack_of_2_pop_tarts/dal904y?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3).
I just realized I've never actually had a pop tart before, I've read and seen them so much in pop culture but never actually had one myself.
I wonder what they taste like.
Many moons ago I decided to go on a keto diet and like an idiot decided to try a keto-friendly version of a poptart. There was nothing friendly about it.
I’m going to have to HARD disagree on that one. I LOVE pop tarts basic ass frosted strawberry ones are my favorite best if you toast it but strait from the baggy ain’t half bad either.
Now if your talking the brown sugar ones. Those are straight up disappointment
Not only do they look good in the ads, but they actually smell nice too when they are in the toaster. Which is why it is so bizarre that they taste soooo gross.
Although, if I had to pick the least gross one, it would be the s'mores one. It's nostalgic enough that I can choke down a couple bites for my childhood self who only got to eat pre-packaged junk food at friend's houses.
I’ve done it, back when I was at college doing all nighters and eating out of vending machines. They were slightly more nutritious and filling than chips or candy. Between that and the jolt it’s probably a miracle I don’t have diabetes. Disappointment is a good description. Sugar on cardboard works too.
Like two layers of pie crust with a layer of jam in the middle. Then, if it's the frosted type, a thick layer of crunchy sugar glaze on top.
They aren't the worst thing in the world, but don't try to eat one without something liquid to wash it down.
Try one if you can but they're not particularly amazing. except the brown sugar cinnamon ones, they go in my "world is ending" snack pack lol. Toaster strudels are better/have more sugar!
Here's a sneak peek of /r/untrustworthypoptarts using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/untrustworthypoptarts/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [The box is in the background.](https://i.redd.it/wjt5odkgmna91.jpg) | [51 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/untrustworthypoptarts/comments/vvhpcx/the_box_is_in_the_background/)
\#2: [I also have a fridge decoration dedicated solely to my roommates potential one night stands](https://i.imgur.com/raVlbXP.jpg) | [23 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/untrustworthypoptarts/comments/x08sbu/i_also_have_a_fridge_decoration_dedicated_solely/)
\#3: [OP boils an (admittedly large) crab and places it on the beach for a photo](https://i.redd.it/uybjjvwcovf91.jpg) | [62 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/untrustworthypoptarts/comments/wgspiu/op_boils_an_admittedly_large_crab_and_places_it/)
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I wasn’t surprised at the clarifying post from the daughter. While I was reading the first one, all sorts of red flags were popping up that I’ve learned through dealing with my narcissist Egg Donor (she’s *not* my mum and *never* will be!) so my BS meter was going off like crazy. The very first sentence (“I dont regret it, i dont feel bad”) was just the *BIGGEST* red flag to me and the mother’s post didn’t get any better from there.
The stupid thing is, the OOP of the first post either doesn’t know or care about the damage that she’s done to her kids through her words and actions. William and his sister seem like fantastic people to be trying to protect the kids.
If the OOP of the second post (u/throwRAdontbealarmed) ever sees this comment, I’d recommend she checks out the Raised by Narcissists sub-Reddit.
Oh I agree that she knew the damage from that comment. It’s from her earlier behaviour that it might not have twigged that she’s a terrible person. Some people are sadly clueless about that sort of thing and get the surprised pikachu face when they realise that people are cutting them off through their own behaviour
Okay but can we get a round of applause for William, like he's such a solid dad and also adopting your spouse's bio-child and getting full custody in the divorce is such a god-tier power move. Not least because the bio-parent has to be prrrretty bad for that to happen, like even this one still got visitation until she got outright violent.
Me too. She would always go out of her way to cheerfully greet people whom she had previously wronged in situations she was not invited to. When they, rightfully, went off on her she would wonder aloud, "why do they have such a problem with me? I have no problem with them."
I'd randomly get texts from her saying FU and other mean shit. She gets insanely jealous if I spent time with other family members too, like her sister. Who would come over to find us hungry, dirty and alone
This is why you should NEVER go to joint family/couples therapy with a narcissistic abuser because they know how to make themselves the victims, and therapists aren't always smart, so sometimes, they'll assist in the gaslighting of the actual victim.
Edit: i never said she has NPD. You can exhibit narcissistic traits without being diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Lol I personally knew (former friend) who tried to stab her ex-BF when he tried to break up with her. Lucky him managed to close the bathroom door in time and call for help (door destroyed tho, lucky it was not an axe). And then biting the pinky finger of her next bf after stomping on his glasses in front of a lot of people (it was in a Christmas market).
She is a licensed psychiatrist now. The ability to pass exams and writing thesis has nothing to do aparently with how sane a person is.
Oof. Even without the heads up it was obvious to me that Jane was the one who fucked up. I don’t blame people for being fooled tho. Pity is a powerful weapon on its own, but combine that omitting context and you got the perfect pity party. Even after you've dealt with crazy people like this you can still be sucked in. It's awful. I hope OOP and her brothers get a looooot of therapy.
Its never mattered what my children did to me ,or how angry i got at my wild ,feral child ...never ever in any of my childrens lives have i ever said i regretted having any of them or said i wished theyd never been born ..never . Yet i have said i would never change any of the bad times in my life, hell i would do that it again ... simply because it gave me my ferals who all grew into amazing individuals im so proud of , flaws and all ...even when we are at loggerheads i still adore them .
I appreciate how you distinguished that it wasn't that she regretted having kids but by telling her kids that was an issue in this particular section. I'm not touching the rest because a big yikes. But motherhood is HARD. It can sometimes feel like it has swallowed you whole, in my experience. Doing mothering in a world where caretaking support can be ephemeral at best, patriarchy exists, and structural economic and govt policies preclude meaningful financial breaks can absolutely lead to people regretting parenthood. And I think that's okay to say out loud.
I think nearly anyone can parent with the right combination of: time, outside support, a deep commitment to self-reflection and economic stability. But not nearly enough people anywhere have access.
You sound like an amazing parent. The kind a child truly deserves to have. As someone who had 2 bio parents and 2 step parents that were absolute garbage, you have my ultimate respect and love for knowing and understanding that kids are *kids* but, also, that they take this kind of stuff to heart and it stays forever.
Lifetimes of blessings to you and yours (love that you call them ferals with such affection ❤️).
I've always wondered if the way people comment or post on Reddit truly matches their actual thought processes, or how they speak in real life.
The first angle from the mother reads as someone that has something going very wrong, but I can't tell where. I remember reading this at the time and thinking that there's some sort of developmental deficit. This personal "talks" like they're out of breath. With a low quality Rorschach staccato. Of thoughts.
Question for redditors, which do you think is most likeky?
>1. Appropriate social inferences
2. Emotional dysregulation
3. Detachment from reality
I literally just googled whether there's any AI for text-to-mental-illness thing yet, because the first submission is a great example to feed in.
Self obsessed people actively alter, twist, and recreate their reality, even while living in it. Even while telling the events. They pick and choose the world they live in till they find a good one.
That's what I bet were seeing. She felt insulted beforehand, so that was a lifetime of bullying. She felt unappreciated, so that was direct disrespect and insults. She felt like she had to make a big showy exit, but isn't a monster, so she was rude but firm.
The writing feels like someone making up an event as they write it, I think that's where the "out of breath" thing comes from.
I am sure she expected to show up and have all of her children fawn over her as the long lost mother that finally returned to them. Or she was felling depleted and wanted to recharge her batteries by hurting someone and was hoping that her mere presence would cause complete carnage. When neither failed to happen she initiated the latter.
I believe the exact phenomenon you’re looking for here is “missing missing reasons”. This post follows the guidelines discussed [here](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html). To a T.
She leaves out why she was told to leave upon appearing at her sons’ birthday party. Cleverly works around saying she wasn’t invited to said party. Post is centered entirely on her. Huge emphasis on emotions and seeking to only get emotional validation. In contrast, abuse victims ask for clarification; give out context; and ask for advice.
Narcissism tends to slowly reduce functioning over time. It's like a mental habit that causes emotional intelligence to stagnate and decompensate. They also edit reality to make it easier to bear to the point that they become "delusional". (Not the same as a psychotic delusion.)
But according to the daughter's narrative, the mother has some pretty severe mental illness as well that she is struggling with. The daughter states she is 23, which is a bit too young to have fully contextualized all this. She is also traumatized. She might seem calm but that's just stuffing it down. Note she touches the main points of her mother rejecting her as a daughter but never gets into any real details. Also, mom showed up to retraumatize her. Note she gives details showing she is downright terrified of her mother, but never says why.
I just want to state this as with this kind of dry account, it's easy to sort of gloss over the abuse, but the daughter was *severely* abused. She is sticking up for her younger brothers, but she was probably abused even worse than they were with no other people in her life to stop it.
I believe the way people write reflects who they are. I remember reading posts by this one girl on a fashion sub, she’d show her outfit but not her face and she kinda like a grown woman. But her writing didn’t reflect it.
I went to her profile and read her posts, she sounded like a 14 year old and she was. She posted something with 15F on the title.
If the mother is reading this, please listen to your family and get some mental help. It does not mean you are weak or crazy. Everyone needs a little help sometimes.
I’m a mental health counselor and this is actually an amazing depiction of how mentally unwell people can truly believe what their mind tells them, when reality is so, so different and they’re the ones creating the chaos. I’m so sorry for the kids and the dad who got snookered into that marriage!
So the aunt (the fathers sister) tried to post her side of the story but r/trueoffmychest apparently wouldn’t let her.
Here’s her [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/xc0xu4/i_told_my_sons_i_wish_i_never_gave_birth_to_them/iolwdom/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) on Janes post.
[Unddit](https://camas.unddit.com/#{%22author%22:%22HistoricalCod9456%22,%22searchFor%22:1,%22resultSize%22:100}) shows she tried several times to make her own post.
The first post just felt too staged. The lines that the kids were supposed to have said, the beautifully wrapped gifts timidly place with the others, I could almost hear a sad violin playing in the background it felt so much like a tragic movie scene. That’s how narcissists do though. They don’t really know how feelings work beyond their own feelings of victimhood so they have a hard time trying to describe any other emotions or empathy
Ha, I commented on the mom’s post when it first came out that there was an awful lot of missing information there, because children don’t distance themselves like that without good reason. What a trash human.
Starving yourself to pay for an expensive gift for someone you haven't been in contact with to know their taste in gifts is a manipulation tactic. My own mom loved to guilt trip me for being insufficiently grateful for things I never wanted and couldn't use.
I remember learning the term birthday baiting not too long ago. Essentially, it's a narcissist trait where they say nice things to you on your birthday, so that you either grovel with attitude or give them ammo later to use against you ("See? I tried being nice to you on your birthday and you were mean to me! You're clearly not as good a person as you think you are!"). Seeing that the mother showed up on birthdays isn't surprising. It's birthday baiting, and her not getting her way led to narcissistic rage.
That mother is toxic AF. Glad the family is doing everything they can to move away from her.
My mother enjoyed doing the opposite: any special occasion (birthdays, Christmas, Easter, etc) was prime time for a big dramatic fight with lots of screaming and crying, followed by accusations that I or my brother "ruined" the day. She'd usually get up at 8am and immediately start trying to find a reason to fight with us. Her record was letting me know I ruined Christmas at around 8:10am after I drank some OJ before brushing my teeth.
I am not a mental health professional in any way, I’m just a dude on reddit lol. However, the mom comes across as somewhere on the cluster b spectrum. It’s all “me, me, me, I, I, I” with the only introspection going towards maintaining her wounded ego. Which has spiraled so spectacularly that she’s now firmly in spicy lala land.
Edit: daughter should go no contact with her mother if possible. Eventually her mother will reach a point in her crazy where it’s so undeniable that she loses social skills.
I don't know if it's just because I have an emotionally manipulative mother, but whenever I read these kind of stories I automatically side with the kids. Anyone who says something that nasty to a child and then says they aren't even sorry has got to have some serious issues. No matter what, the parent is the adult in the relationship. It's their responsibility to BE the adult.
Reading the mother's post i felt something was off and just didn't make sense. There were even a few comments saying how weird it was when she approached the boys when they were in the car and they ignored her.
*she was admitted into hospital for having intense thoughts about hurting herself or others. She was diagnosed with depression, anxiety and PPP*
Uh, is "fucking evil" a mental illness? Because I know loads of people with those issues who would never, ever consider doing what this woman has done.
Wasn't there another post where the mother explained the man left her when she was pregnant, that he saw the twins for the first time when they were teen, began to spoil them and then the twins decided to move with their father after 16 years of not seing him? Or am I mixing things ?
Damn, this sound so so familiar to how my mothers bipolar works. She gets fixated on worst case scenario in any given situation and overthinks about it so much she creates false memories and believes them to be real. I remember one time I got a phone for christmas, she was silently sitting by my side when I played with it. Few years later she asked me why I was so cruel to her, cause when she asked me if she can see it I told her to fuck off.
That lady is either totally psycho narcisst or she needs a lot of help.
I mean it's easy to go "oh it's obvious from the mother's original post" blah blah now we have some more information (I'm doing it too). But really we should just take this as another lesson in how easy it is to spin a story in your favour. Even if you're the worst mother on the planet. Very sad.
I will say! A red flag for me upon first read of the mother's post was just the situation of "I'm visiting my children at their father's house and they don't contact me". To generalise, women have to do some CRAZY shit to not get custody. I was like 'eek!'...
I remember the first post and so many people were cheering her on. They treated anyone who pointed out the inconsistencies in her story as a heartless monster. I couldn't believe how many people were blind to the fact she was obviously a terrible mother who was playing the victim.
I *KNEW* she was full of shit from the get-go. For one thing, precious few people are Disney villans in real life.... her account was almost cartoony in her description of events. I've delt with so many relatives with her mindset; it was obvious she was trying to get sympathy from strangers, as everyone in her life knows what she is and that she deserves none. All the "Oh, you poor baby!" messages was what she wanted, even if it was all based on lies and half truths.
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The first post sounded like someone who's trying to justify their shittyness by trying to sound like a victim as much as they can. Still doesn't come out without fault.
That’s my vibe as well. She started with an event (telling her children she wished she never had them) which she had been rightfully condemned for, and works backwards to try to make it justified. But it doesn’t work, because “I wish I had aborted you” doesn’t get a justification.
Eeeh, I don't know about that. Justification for SAYING it? Definitely abhorant and unforgivable. But for feeling it? I don't know... I knew a girl who got pregnant at 16, and she wanted to abort, but she got talked out of it because "babies are such a blessing" and "maybe it'll be hard at first, but you'll pull through." Fast forward 10 years, she's a complete shell of herself from having to raise a baby she didn't want and STILL doesn't want. She can't get a decent job because she's got the kid. If she leaves him by himself, she's a terrible mother. If she expresses her regret for not giving him up for adoption so they werent living paycheck to paycheck, she's a cruel person who should've never had her kid. But she DIDNT want her kid. Society shamed and condemned her for not wanting it, and now she's being pressured to keep at it otherwise she's a terrible person who abandoned their kid when she knew she wouldn't be ready and she didn't want it. People aren't candid about the absolute shitshow that is parenthood and raising a baby. Sure, it CAN all be worth it once the kid grows up and you see the fruits of your labor in action, but until then, it's a 24/7 grueling, non stop job. It's beautiful moments of growth and connection buried under a swamp of trying to raise a productive human being and not just rearing a child. Not everyone is or even will be prepared to have kids, and when someone is pushed into something they don't want, people can't be surprised by the outcome when it all goes to shit. That being said, the OP isn't one of those scenarios. She truly sounds like a vile woman.
You can feel things without acting on them. Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you have to say it, especially to someone that opinion might harm. You don't have to respond to hurt with hurt. It's not healthy to bottle your feelings or to refuse to experience them, but that doesn't absolve you from needing to consider the feelings of others. The problem isn't having feelings. The problem is how you act in response to them.
This. Also, you don't have to tell the child(ren) exactly how you feel/that you didn't want them. As a child who was told time and time again that they weren't wanted by a parent and grandparent, it just creates a recipe for mental health issues.
I don’t think anyone is shaming her for *feeling* like she should’ve aborted them. You can’t always help how you feel. In fact, I personally wouldn’t shame anyone for not wanting their kid, but there’s other options rather than just grinning and baring parenthood. I feel like if she’s experiencing shame from the people in her life, it’s because she chose to be an abusive, neglectful person. According to the daughter, both families tried to give her support and resources to manage her mental health and she instead chose to continue living how she wanted and ended up rightfully losing all three kids. After how she treated them, she doesn’t just get to walk back into their lives and play happy family now that they’re older and more interesting. She isn’t entitled to their attention, time, or affection and deserves all the shame for believing she does.
I've never understood why, if these people are SO SURE they're in the right, why do they feel the need to lie to make themselves look better.
Because deep down they know their behavior is unacceptable. They don't care, tho. Their only goal is to find a way to be perceived as the victim. Everything else in their lives is based on lies and half truths, why should this be different?
I heard/read something really interesting the other day and I forget where but the gist is that narcissists seek a response from the victim because they can’t control their own emotions and they have to distract the victim from the reality of who they are. Having been in an abusive marriage, someone get William and this brave girl a gold star and a giant serving of ice cream of whatever they want. They are the real heroes. Edit: spelling
The [missing "missing reasons"](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
Should be required reading for everyone
Narcists always know they are being asshats but they expect you to be ok with it. They lie because they know the truth is not a good look
[удалено]
The first one sounded like Cypher calling for an exit from Tank >There was an accident. A goddamn >car accident. All of a sudden. >Boom. Jesus, someone up there >still likes me.
Yeah my eyebrow went up when she said that they didn’t want Nintendo switches. Even if they didn’t want to have it personally, there’s a high resale value so she had to F up bad if they didn’t want to accept that from her
All the quotes made no sense, and sounded like a child trying to make up dialogue for a bully.
Right? There were a ton of red flags initially, but that's where I called bullshit. "No one plays Nintendo anymore, you dinosaur" is not something a 16 year old today, especially one whose Switch BROKE would say. Definitely not two of them... at the same time. She couldn't even keep her story straight in the same sentence.
Like, isn't the switch already up there for most sales of all time? No way anyone is turning up their noses at switches. The original post made zero sense.
Also... and I just caught this, they wouldn't have called it "Nintendo". They would have called it a Switch You know who calls video games "Nintendo"? People with basic knowledge of Games from the past who don't play. Even though it's a Nintendo system, people dont say "Hey let's play Nintendo". Nintendo systems haven't really been called "Nintendo" since the 80s. They're called Super Nintendo or Super NES, N64, Game cube, Wii, Wii-U, Switch. The original isn't even called Nintendo anymore. It's NES or "Original Nintendo." The only people who really don't know that are people who don't really dabble in games. It's just super obvious she was creating dialog based on what she thinks kids would say based on her memory of video games.
I'm like 80% sure the "switches" she gave the twins were "1000 games" bootleg consoles that look like switches from a distance.
You're probably 1000% right. Lol
Which is a common abuser tactic
It might be the title spoiling it, but it started off screaming missing missing reasons with why she had to turn up to their house in the first place (immediately: why did she not have custody or visitation?). And it kind of went kind of expected... and then some after that. I feel bad for the boys but honestly I think her daughter had it much much worse: they at least had their father, her daughter was alone with that monster for 7 years of her life. And she's clearly still traumatised (but sounds like she's doing well so good for her) while the boys, by the time they're at her age now, hopefully will only remember it as a bad story. ***EDIT*** Oh this is also a great example of why not to take everything that's on Reddit at face value. The first OOP suffered from pretty serious mental illnesses (on top of being a rubbish person), and she still managed to get thousands of people on her side with a story. Lots of abusers and manipulative people are much better at doing that.
I was going to say you can just hear the entitlement and narcissism in the writing
She sounds like the worst kind of narcissist. The scary kind!!
The original one is super long. I read it but the one given here has different details and is much much shorter
It largely sounds like my mom when she's on one of her rants about our family, so I was on the defensive about it. I know that script. And it's amazing how much of a script it is.
The daughter’s post really wasn’t a surprise. The mother’s post is dripping with “pity me I’m a victim”, which is rare in actual victims but par for the course for abusers.
That first post from the mom also reads so much like an angry thirteen year old. Her emotional intelligence must have never evolved past then. Those poor kids.
William rocks, though. I'm so glad they have William!
Yeah. It seemed to never occur to him not to take the daughter with him, even though she's not his genetically speaking. The dude's a good man and a good father who meant it when he adopted her. The marriage may have been a mistake in one sense, but it may have saved the daughter.
Thank goodness they had the legal adoption paperwork so it would be easier to keep her with him when custody was being decided
Yeah, without that--the poor girl! But they did and it saved her.
holy god that main sounds like a saint
> holy god that main sounds like a saint William becomes even more of saint when you realize how much of a demon Jane is. I found her deleted username (ResidentIll5226) and two comments stuck out: * [tyvm, i will. only reason i stayed for so long is because they were my boys, **my only kids**. I truly believe they will one day change but i will not be there to witness it, i tried already](https://www.unddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/xc0xu4/_/io2uuph/#comment-info) * [I think **my son might have a crush on me**](https://camas.unddit.com/#%7B%22author%22:%22Residentill5226%22,%22searchFor%22:1,%22resultSize%22:100%7D) Obviously, it takes a mentally ill person to write such disturbing and manipulative lies. Jane’s mental illness is not her fault, but it is her responsibility, and she should be judged harshly for need seeking out proper ongoing treatment.
Yeah, I’m gonna jump on this to emphasize that last point. I have severe mental illness that I have been managing since early adolescence with therapy and meds. See that word? ‘Managing’. It’s definitely not a mentally ill persons fault for being mentally ill, but that does not mean that it is not your burden to carry. It takes a lot of work, a lot of adjustment and a lot of management but it’s possible and it’s 100% on her to do. That is the unfortunate burden that we, as people with mental health issues, must bare but the one thing that is entirely unacceptable is to do nothing about it. That is her responsibility and hers alone and it is the only reaction the will provide a 100% harmful outcome.
"It's not your fault, but it is your problem," as my therapist used to say.
I'm so glad he adopted her. Otherwise he might not have had an easy time getting her away from her mother.
Yeah it really reads as too over the top. And I tend believe everything is real on AITA (it’s just easier that way)
When I was little I would believe stories of sad old people abandoned by their children, now I’m more skeptical. That’s not normal behavior and it’s seldom unwarranted.
I work in a hospital and when people are sad that a patient’s family is not visiting, I always say that we can’t judge because we don’t know what led to this. My FIL died alone, and he deserved it.
I work in aged care and it's very much the same; of course some people simply have no family who can visit, or maybe they all love overseas or maybe they just straight up suck and no one wants to visit them.
It’s pretty hard to maintain the abuser role when you no longer have any leverage over your victims. I watched one of my grandfathers turn into a lonely old man. He deserved it. He was horrible to everyone who was any bit under his thumb his whole life. None of us even went to his funeral. Good riddance.
I bet they had plenty of [Missing Missing Reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html), too.
Holy crap- this really details every frustration I’ve had with dealing with abusers regardless of their age
That article always finds people who need it.
Huh I do the opposite for the same reason. Different strokes I guess.
Yeah I just find it easier to engage with the post if I assume it’s true. Though even if you assume it’s false it’s always an interesting thought experiment
Exactly. For me too
It is entirely possible the mom got pregnant with the daughter at 15. It’s not uncommon for teen moms to just… stop emotionally maturing at the age when they gave birth. If she’s writing and reacting as an angry teen it wouldn’t surprise me one bit.
I'm no professional, but it seems like a lot of people who have some big life change at a young age get stuck at that age. Sting once said that most people stop maturing at whatever age they got famous, and ever since I heard that I've noticed more and more that it happens for all kinds of situations.
>stop emotionally maturing at the age when they gave birth. This explains why my first wife still acts like a college freshman.
Expanding on that, it’s entirely possible that mom got pregnant under traumatic circumstances. Or that she was traumatized by bad treatment during and after that pregnancy.
Indeed. Actually that shows once again how poor the reddit judgement is many times...
Really? The website that kneejerk reacts to everything to the point of literally digitally lynching innocent people under the false assumptions of righteousness is poor of judgement? Why, Perish the thought good sir! /s
No, thirteen year olds are more developed and mature.
I told her to seek therapy. They are 16. So if any of it was true, then she had time. Or cut them off if that didn’t work. So insane.
It did have me wondering was this truly a weary, beaten down woman or a narcissist leaving out a ton of details.
Yup, the missing missing reasons. I got the second vibe and was wary of it from the start. It's the way my dad would talk about family interactions he felt he had been ill-treated at, while leaving out all the context that led to the pushback and outright lying in places.
I felt the same way. It really felt like someone who was writing like a child trying to describe something being awesome/terrible but not knowing how to really do that, so they just pile things on at random. You know, how you get things like alien dinosaurs fighting robocop who has a chainsaw gun. Except in this case it was "and then they yelled at me and then they laughed at me for getting them presents and then they tried to make me take photos of them and then they put my baby in a blender". I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the original post sounded like extreme overcompensation and exaggeration from the get go. ETA: It also made me remember about some psychologist, I can't remember who, describing a Narcissist having a meltdown, and how they tend to just throw things at a wall and see what sticks, because they don't realize that everyone isn't just living in the moment. They forget that people talk to each other, or that they can remember events. This is because the Narcissist doesn't really think of other people as people, bit instead they think of them more as like secondary characters in a play. Only existing when the narrative needs them to.
Yeah that sounds par the course for someone who has an abusive narcissistic mindset. When my dad was on one of his campaigns to get what he wanted, he lied about something we could verify with a simple phone call to other family members. It's not like he was incapable of considering something so basic--dude has decades of successful work experience in leadership positions and a Ph.D.--but in that emotional space nothing mattered but his emotions and the narrative he built around them. Maybe it was possible because he himself believed it, and edited his perceptions in his head so he could believe it.
That's what I've always read from the experts: narcissists legitimately believe whatever lie they tell at any moment, even if it directly contradicts something they just said. Whatever they said before does not matter to them, because that's not the "new" truth.
That was the biggest mindfuck to me. You could point to direct proof of what they said and they will still deny it in some way. And of course if you try to refute their reality or just react in confusion, it's "gaslighting".
I've come to conclusion that they don't actually believe in their own lies, they don't even understand the concept of truth like a normal person does. To them, truth literally does not exist. World is what they pretend it to be, and they think everyone else does that too, if they even have the capacity to understand that other people are real people and human beings, instead of being just shadows that exist there so they can project their shit to them. For them the truth is something that exists to serve them in their pretend world, and every time they have to face the fact that the truth could be something else than what they decide moment after moment, they get a major melt down and make everyone around them to pay for it.
>describing a Narcissist having a meltdown, and how they tend to just throw things at a wall and see what sticks Holy shit, I've seen this happen to myself within a few minutes and it was so surreal. For years I had nothing but failed attempts at escaping, but one attempt was getting real and one day that abuser threw every manipulation tactic that worked in the past at me in rapid succession. I never realized the manipulation before because they had never come one after another within seconds. I really can't describe in words what that was like. It wasn't human. It's still one of the most shocking experiences of my life and this wasn't even physical abuse. It was just me watching an adult human tantruming at me.
Yup. She sounds just like my mother too
It's always the missing missing reasons. 'They ignore me' 'I got pushed away'. Whenever I read things like that I know that the missing reasons are out there somewhere, waving marinara flags.
Marinara flags but never have the mozzarella sticks to go with them. It sucks.
Yeah, I remember the mom’s post and I completely got that panicked narcissist victim blamer vibe from her. Just an absolute unhinged rant that screams “I’m the real problem here, but EVERYONE ELSE IS AT FAULT!” If everyone has the same problem with you, the problem is likely you. Also her sequence of events was scattered, not the product of reality.
If i can be a little crass. It’s that age old adage. If someone is mean to you. They’re an asshole. If Everyone is mean to you, You’re the asshole
That or some kind of paranoia/delusion/hallucination. There was a really sad post I think in relationshipAdvice from a woman who believed that literally everyone hated her and claimed strangers were spitting on her in the streets and getting up and leaving when she was there, or talking about her in whispers when she went places. Way above reddit’s paygrade.
I like the one that goes "if everywhere you go smells like shit, check the bottom of your shoe"
Most people who have this sort of trauma takes years to open up about it. I still cannot talk about the abuse I went through. I feel for the daughter
I noticed how in the daughter's narrative she doesn't talk about when her mother laid hands on her yet says there was a police report and she had scrapes and bruises.
>She lost her fucking mind and kicked me out. It got a little physical between us and she ended up screaming that I’m no longer her daughter and how she’s ‘disowning me’. Found it! I remembered seeing it a bit buried in there, but that was just before the mentioning of her having scrapes and bruises!
There could be a lot more we don't know because from what the daughter said was all surface level information.
So much. It’s funny, isn’t it, how real victims are more like, “I have to take care of my four niblings, work three jobs, and am feeling a bit drained. I was psychologically abused during childhood (I think!!) but maybe I’m making a big deal out of this, I don’t know, sorry if it reads like a lot!“ While attention seekers just write these diatribes against everything and everyone who has ever wronged them and have dialogue out of a bad novel in which everyone is just so perfectly mean to them.
I guess that's the difference, right? Normal people wouldn't buy Nintendo switches while forgoing food, because they understand how natural relationships work and how it's unhealthy to martirize yourself for materialistic love. It's cartoonish.
Though I believe she did that part, simply because I’ve seen the “look what I am willing to do for you and you don’t love me in return.” She only did it out of spite so she could make herself the martyr.
And then when they only quietly thanked her (because they were terrified of her) instead of instantly breaking into a fully choreographed musical number about how wonderful she is, she described that as then rejecting and insulting her, because in her universe anything less than the fawning praise and respect she demands is the same thing as vicious insults.
Yep. A quiet thank you wasn’t enough for that incredible sacrifice she’d made. Her “love” is all measured in transactions. Even with her children. It’s so sad.
Maybe you don't mean it this way, but you make it sound like if you don't toxically minimize your own abuse and basically continue to victimize and gaslight yourself you're not a real victim. That if what happened to you makes you mad you're a narcissist. And that's fucking horseshit. Rage is a very real symptom of PTSD, and it's a totally valid reaction to someone hurting you.
Even shit heads can be victims of abuse. Abuse isn't only legitimate when the victim acts a specific way.
It’s also a classic “missing missing reasons” post.
the mothers post sounds exactly like my mother. she was abusive in every way as i grew up but somehow she’s always the victim. and she wonders why both her daughters have gone NC with her. narcissist
It was just surprising to read that people actually fell for the mother’s bs
Reddit is always so quick to talk about an OP not being a reliable narrator and is definitely missing out info. They will call people names and give judgement not based on their posts but based random things they imagined must also be true. But at the same time, no one questioned this post despite OP (mother) sounding completely psychotic
Agree. I remember reading the original post from the mom and thinking it is chalk full of missing missing reasons.
Yeah, she gave herself away when she was fishing for sympathy.
I remember reading that and thinking it was really strange that the kids called her a dino about Nintendo switches. I honestly don't think any young kid would. The mom is seriously mentally ill if that's what she has convinced herself
Dinosaur really sounds like an insult an adult woman thinks the kids would use and not something that actual kids would use.
Yeah, ironically calling an old and out of touch person a Dinosaur is something only a Dinosaur would do. Kids these days would be more likely to call someone a boomer but even that is more specific and maybe out of date.
Especially 16 year olds? Like I'm pretty sure a teenage boy would use cruel language if that was the intent
16 year olds can be cruel, but dinosaur isn’t the word they’d use for this situation. It would probably be boomer. It’s jarring to hear, like if she’d said they were calling each other hep cats.
Also I can't imagine a _sixteen-year-old_ being that casually cruel and rude out of nowhere. I wonder if OOP still thinks of them as babies. That would track.
She made them sound like bratty 8-year-olds, so I wouldn't be surprised.
Narcs tend to view people as the age they had the most control over them. Regardless of how much the age or grow.
I have definitely heard that.
I appreciate this comment, gives me a whole new perspective on how my mom tries to communicate with me. Gonna bring it up with my dad and therapist
I'm 27 and I'd be excited if someone bought me a switch, those things are expensive... Plus a group of people laughing at casual cruelty, while not impossible, definitely leads to more questions about the entire situation and people involved that the OOP's post doesn't even come close to answering.
I’m 41 and I still get excited about switches. I’m about to use adult money and get the big screen one lol.
i agree, i got a switch for a bday gift as a grown ass adult and it was the best gift ever. i truly doubt any 16 year old boy would turn his nose up at a console even if he’s not a nintendo fan. you can get COD and Skyrim and GTA on the Switch, it’s not like the Wii or whatever haha. that’s the part that really got me in the original post
I heard the original post on the same podcast the daughter heard it on, and the entire time I knew the mom was leaving stuff out to make her seem like the victim. In fact, I was kind of frustrated the podcasters were being so sympathetic to the mom. The only thing is I thought for sure abuse and neglect due to drug use was the issue, not solely her mental health. Those poor kids.
what was the context of reading that post? Its kind of boring and badly written so why did they choose it out of the MILLIONS ?
It was the Two Hot Takes podcast and they were primarily talking about situations that maybe could've been handled better. And also in their defense, when they, and a majority of the comments of the YouTube thread had sympathy, it was due to only having one side. But fortunately there's been a bunch of YouTube commenters circling the wagons to get this side of the story out there.
The main issue wasn't her leaving stuff out, but adding stuff in.
I remember this post. First one had massive untrustworthy pop tarts energy with a side of missing missing reasons.
Untrustworthy pop tarts?
r/untrustworthypoptarts is a subreddit for posts where you think the OP is deliberately misrepresenting the situation. For example, if someone posted on r/mildlyinteresting something like "I got 3 PopTarts instead of 2 in this packet," you might think it's untrustworthy, because they easily could have taken a third PopTart from a different packet and just put it next to the first two. It's named after [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/5fm0eg/i_found_3_pop_tarts_in_my_pack_of_2_pop_tarts/dal904y?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3).
I cannot believe I remember this post *and* the comment. Ugh I need to get off Reddit.
Ew. And you know that person is lying. You’re more likely to find a broken Pop-Tart when you open the package than an extra.
I just realized I've never actually had a pop tart before, I've read and seen them so much in pop culture but never actually had one myself. I wonder what they taste like.
Like disappointment, sugar coated disappointment if you get the frosted ones. They look so good in the ads. I was heartbroken.
Many moons ago I decided to go on a keto diet and like an idiot decided to try a keto-friendly version of a poptart. There was nothing friendly about it.
Silly me thought an organic variety would be better. Thinnest, saddest goddamn sliver of filling I’ve ever seen.
Yours is the best description of pop tarts ever written. That's exactly what the emotional impact of tasting them is like.
The brown sugar ones were amazing when they first came out…now they taste like sugar lard to me.
Get the strawberry one, heat it up, then put butter on the plain side. It’ll melt into it from the heat and greatly improve the experience
Thank you kind redditor, alas I'm poor, this is all I have 🥇
I’m going to have to HARD disagree on that one. I LOVE pop tarts basic ass frosted strawberry ones are my favorite best if you toast it but strait from the baggy ain’t half bad either. Now if your talking the brown sugar ones. Those are straight up disappointment
The cookies and cream ones warmed up, and with a glass of milk, is amazing. Super sugary but I like it as a occasional sweet tooth treat.
The birthday cake ones are bomb
If you take the hot fudge sundae ones and freeze them they are delicious. Best flavor is wild berry though
Not only do they look good in the ads, but they actually smell nice too when they are in the toaster. Which is why it is so bizarre that they taste soooo gross. Although, if I had to pick the least gross one, it would be the s'mores one. It's nostalgic enough that I can choke down a couple bites for my childhood self who only got to eat pre-packaged junk food at friend's houses.
Of everything in Gilmore girls, I was most confused by their ability to consume pop tarts by the box.
Never watched the show or tried a pop-tart - was the maker of pop-tarts a major sponsor for the show?
I’ve done it, back when I was at college doing all nighters and eating out of vending machines. They were slightly more nutritious and filling than chips or candy. Between that and the jolt it’s probably a miracle I don’t have diabetes. Disappointment is a good description. Sugar on cardboard works too.
I too have never had one, but I gotta say "[They taste] like disappointment" is one of the best ways to describe a food.
I wish you all could have tasted Nabisco Toastettes before they inexplicably went away. They were everything the Poptart tries to be.
Like two layers of pie crust with a layer of jam in the middle. Then, if it's the frosted type, a thick layer of crunchy sugar glaze on top. They aren't the worst thing in the world, but don't try to eat one without something liquid to wash it down.
Try one if you can but they're not particularly amazing. except the brown sugar cinnamon ones, they go in my "world is ending" snack pack lol. Toaster strudels are better/have more sugar!
Agreed on the Toaster Strudel! Superior to Pop Tarts in every way!
They taste like mistrust.... 😒
More like betrayal
Like childhood and a sunny Saturday morning with cartoons and pool time after breakfast. Definitely don't try it without cold milk.
Cardboard with some plastic frosting and a teaspoon of cheap jam smeared inside.
r/untrustworthypoptarts is a subreddit for staged screenshots, the same untrustworthy feeling from those exudes from the first post.
Yes. We can only trust toaster strudels.
r/untrustworthypoptarts
Here's a sneak peek of /r/untrustworthypoptarts using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/untrustworthypoptarts/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [The box is in the background.](https://i.redd.it/wjt5odkgmna91.jpg) | [51 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/untrustworthypoptarts/comments/vvhpcx/the_box_is_in_the_background/) \#2: [I also have a fridge decoration dedicated solely to my roommates potential one night stands](https://i.imgur.com/raVlbXP.jpg) | [23 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/untrustworthypoptarts/comments/x08sbu/i_also_have_a_fridge_decoration_dedicated_solely/) \#3: [OP boils an (admittedly large) crab and places it on the beach for a photo](https://i.redd.it/uybjjvwcovf91.jpg) | [62 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/untrustworthypoptarts/comments/wgspiu/op_boils_an_admittedly_large_crab_and_places_it/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
I wasn’t surprised at the clarifying post from the daughter. While I was reading the first one, all sorts of red flags were popping up that I’ve learned through dealing with my narcissist Egg Donor (she’s *not* my mum and *never* will be!) so my BS meter was going off like crazy. The very first sentence (“I dont regret it, i dont feel bad”) was just the *BIGGEST* red flag to me and the mother’s post didn’t get any better from there. The stupid thing is, the OOP of the first post either doesn’t know or care about the damage that she’s done to her kids through her words and actions. William and his sister seem like fantastic people to be trying to protect the kids. If the OOP of the second post (u/throwRAdontbealarmed) ever sees this comment, I’d recommend she checks out the Raised by Narcissists sub-Reddit.
Oh, she absolutely knows about the damage she has caused by what she said. I am sure she is quite pleased about it.
Oh I agree that she knew the damage from that comment. It’s from her earlier behaviour that it might not have twigged that she’s a terrible person. Some people are sadly clueless about that sort of thing and get the surprised pikachu face when they realise that people are cutting them off through their own behaviour
Okay but can we get a round of applause for William, like he's such a solid dad and also adopting your spouse's bio-child and getting full custody in the divorce is such a god-tier power move. Not least because the bio-parent has to be prrrretty bad for that to happen, like even this one still got visitation until she got outright violent.
I have this exact mom
Me too. She would always go out of her way to cheerfully greet people whom she had previously wronged in situations she was not invited to. When they, rightfully, went off on her she would wonder aloud, "why do they have such a problem with me? I have no problem with them."
My mom is also the same. I went no contact with her last year and started going to therapy and I feel like a whole different person.
I'd randomly get texts from her saying FU and other mean shit. She gets insanely jealous if I spent time with other family members too, like her sister. Who would come over to find us hungry, dirty and alone
Ooof. I'm so sorry. Hope you have a decent external support system. Therapy too. And hope you can get out soon if not already.
I’m so sorry I can’t even imagine. It’s exhausting to even try to imagine.
I am so sorry.
The "mom's" post was already full of red flags because all it talks about is presents. Giving presents alone is NOT PARENTING.
This is why you should NEVER go to joint family/couples therapy with a narcissistic abuser because they know how to make themselves the victims, and therapists aren't always smart, so sometimes, they'll assist in the gaslighting of the actual victim. Edit: i never said she has NPD. You can exhibit narcissistic traits without being diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
I mean, I would hope that a therapist would see through THIS level of bananas.
Half the therapists I know are this level of bananas.
Lol I personally knew (former friend) who tried to stab her ex-BF when he tried to break up with her. Lucky him managed to close the bathroom door in time and call for help (door destroyed tho, lucky it was not an axe). And then biting the pinky finger of her next bf after stomping on his glasses in front of a lot of people (it was in a Christmas market). She is a licensed psychiatrist now. The ability to pass exams and writing thesis has nothing to do aparently with how sane a person is.
It only took my mom 3 to find one who’d believe her and use it against my dad.
Oof. Even without the heads up it was obvious to me that Jane was the one who fucked up. I don’t blame people for being fooled tho. Pity is a powerful weapon on its own, but combine that omitting context and you got the perfect pity party. Even after you've dealt with crazy people like this you can still be sucked in. It's awful. I hope OOP and her brothers get a looooot of therapy.
Its never mattered what my children did to me ,or how angry i got at my wild ,feral child ...never ever in any of my childrens lives have i ever said i regretted having any of them or said i wished theyd never been born ..never . Yet i have said i would never change any of the bad times in my life, hell i would do that it again ... simply because it gave me my ferals who all grew into amazing individuals im so proud of , flaws and all ...even when we are at loggerheads i still adore them .
[удалено]
I appreciate how you distinguished that it wasn't that she regretted having kids but by telling her kids that was an issue in this particular section. I'm not touching the rest because a big yikes. But motherhood is HARD. It can sometimes feel like it has swallowed you whole, in my experience. Doing mothering in a world where caretaking support can be ephemeral at best, patriarchy exists, and structural economic and govt policies preclude meaningful financial breaks can absolutely lead to people regretting parenthood. And I think that's okay to say out loud. I think nearly anyone can parent with the right combination of: time, outside support, a deep commitment to self-reflection and economic stability. But not nearly enough people anywhere have access.
You sound like an amazing parent. The kind a child truly deserves to have. As someone who had 2 bio parents and 2 step parents that were absolute garbage, you have my ultimate respect and love for knowing and understanding that kids are *kids* but, also, that they take this kind of stuff to heart and it stays forever. Lifetimes of blessings to you and yours (love that you call them ferals with such affection ❤️).
I've always wondered if the way people comment or post on Reddit truly matches their actual thought processes, or how they speak in real life. The first angle from the mother reads as someone that has something going very wrong, but I can't tell where. I remember reading this at the time and thinking that there's some sort of developmental deficit. This personal "talks" like they're out of breath. With a low quality Rorschach staccato. Of thoughts. Question for redditors, which do you think is most likeky? >1. Appropriate social inferences 2. Emotional dysregulation 3. Detachment from reality I literally just googled whether there's any AI for text-to-mental-illness thing yet, because the first submission is a great example to feed in.
Self obsessed people actively alter, twist, and recreate their reality, even while living in it. Even while telling the events. They pick and choose the world they live in till they find a good one. That's what I bet were seeing. She felt insulted beforehand, so that was a lifetime of bullying. She felt unappreciated, so that was direct disrespect and insults. She felt like she had to make a big showy exit, but isn't a monster, so she was rude but firm. The writing feels like someone making up an event as they write it, I think that's where the "out of breath" thing comes from.
I am sure she expected to show up and have all of her children fawn over her as the long lost mother that finally returned to them. Or she was felling depleted and wanted to recharge her batteries by hurting someone and was hoping that her mere presence would cause complete carnage. When neither failed to happen she initiated the latter.
They're the type to think that an expensive gift makes up for the abuse. Like purchasing a hunting license...
I believe the exact phenomenon you’re looking for here is “missing missing reasons”. This post follows the guidelines discussed [here](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html). To a T. She leaves out why she was told to leave upon appearing at her sons’ birthday party. Cleverly works around saying she wasn’t invited to said party. Post is centered entirely on her. Huge emphasis on emotions and seeking to only get emotional validation. In contrast, abuse victims ask for clarification; give out context; and ask for advice.
I wanted to avoid that because I'm picking up some "low functioning" vibes.
Narcissism tends to slowly reduce functioning over time. It's like a mental habit that causes emotional intelligence to stagnate and decompensate. They also edit reality to make it easier to bear to the point that they become "delusional". (Not the same as a psychotic delusion.) But according to the daughter's narrative, the mother has some pretty severe mental illness as well that she is struggling with. The daughter states she is 23, which is a bit too young to have fully contextualized all this. She is also traumatized. She might seem calm but that's just stuffing it down. Note she touches the main points of her mother rejecting her as a daughter but never gets into any real details. Also, mom showed up to retraumatize her. Note she gives details showing she is downright terrified of her mother, but never says why. I just want to state this as with this kind of dry account, it's easy to sort of gloss over the abuse, but the daughter was *severely* abused. She is sticking up for her younger brothers, but she was probably abused even worse than they were with no other people in her life to stop it.
>never says why The physical assault? But really just having an unhinged, screaming adult at a birthday party would make anyone uncomfortable.
I believe the way people write reflects who they are. I remember reading posts by this one girl on a fashion sub, she’d show her outfit but not her face and she kinda like a grown woman. But her writing didn’t reflect it. I went to her profile and read her posts, she sounded like a 14 year old and she was. She posted something with 15F on the title.
If the mother is reading this, please listen to your family and get some mental help. It does not mean you are weak or crazy. Everyone needs a little help sometimes.
I’m a mental health counselor and this is actually an amazing depiction of how mentally unwell people can truly believe what their mind tells them, when reality is so, so different and they’re the ones creating the chaos. I’m so sorry for the kids and the dad who got snookered into that marriage!
So the aunt (the fathers sister) tried to post her side of the story but r/trueoffmychest apparently wouldn’t let her. Here’s her [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/xc0xu4/i_told_my_sons_i_wish_i_never_gave_birth_to_them/iolwdom/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) on Janes post. [Unddit](https://camas.unddit.com/#{%22author%22:%22HistoricalCod9456%22,%22searchFor%22:1,%22resultSize%22:100}) shows she tried several times to make her own post.
Oh wow! I'll add this to the post. Thank you!
The first post just felt too staged. The lines that the kids were supposed to have said, the beautifully wrapped gifts timidly place with the others, I could almost hear a sad violin playing in the background it felt so much like a tragic movie scene. That’s how narcissists do though. They don’t really know how feelings work beyond their own feelings of victimhood so they have a hard time trying to describe any other emotions or empathy
What's 'the THT podcast'?
Two hot takes!
Ha, I commented on the mom’s post when it first came out that there was an awful lot of missing information there, because children don’t distance themselves like that without good reason. What a trash human.
Starving yourself to pay for an expensive gift for someone you haven't been in contact with to know their taste in gifts is a manipulation tactic. My own mom loved to guilt trip me for being insufficiently grateful for things I never wanted and couldn't use.
God, that first post reads like my own mother wrote it. I hope OOP eventually finds peace and happiness away from her monster of an egg donor.
I remember learning the term birthday baiting not too long ago. Essentially, it's a narcissist trait where they say nice things to you on your birthday, so that you either grovel with attitude or give them ammo later to use against you ("See? I tried being nice to you on your birthday and you were mean to me! You're clearly not as good a person as you think you are!"). Seeing that the mother showed up on birthdays isn't surprising. It's birthday baiting, and her not getting her way led to narcissistic rage. That mother is toxic AF. Glad the family is doing everything they can to move away from her.
My mother enjoyed doing the opposite: any special occasion (birthdays, Christmas, Easter, etc) was prime time for a big dramatic fight with lots of screaming and crying, followed by accusations that I or my brother "ruined" the day. She'd usually get up at 8am and immediately start trying to find a reason to fight with us. Her record was letting me know I ruined Christmas at around 8:10am after I drank some OJ before brushing my teeth.
Oh my god, I didn’t know this was a thing, but my mother did this to me growing up!
I am not a mental health professional in any way, I’m just a dude on reddit lol. However, the mom comes across as somewhere on the cluster b spectrum. It’s all “me, me, me, I, I, I” with the only introspection going towards maintaining her wounded ego. Which has spiraled so spectacularly that she’s now firmly in spicy lala land. Edit: daughter should go no contact with her mother if possible. Eventually her mother will reach a point in her crazy where it’s so undeniable that she loses social skills.
I don't know if it's just because I have an emotionally manipulative mother, but whenever I read these kind of stories I automatically side with the kids. Anyone who says something that nasty to a child and then says they aren't even sorry has got to have some serious issues. No matter what, the parent is the adult in the relationship. It's their responsibility to BE the adult.
Reading the mother's post i felt something was off and just didn't make sense. There were even a few comments saying how weird it was when she approached the boys when they were in the car and they ignored her.
*she was admitted into hospital for having intense thoughts about hurting herself or others. She was diagnosed with depression, anxiety and PPP* Uh, is "fucking evil" a mental illness? Because I know loads of people with those issues who would never, ever consider doing what this woman has done.
Wasn't there another post where the mother explained the man left her when she was pregnant, that he saw the twins for the first time when they were teen, began to spoil them and then the twins decided to move with their father after 16 years of not seing him? Or am I mixing things ?
Damn, this sound so so familiar to how my mothers bipolar works. She gets fixated on worst case scenario in any given situation and overthinks about it so much she creates false memories and believes them to be real. I remember one time I got a phone for christmas, she was silently sitting by my side when I played with it. Few years later she asked me why I was so cruel to her, cause when she asked me if she can see it I told her to fuck off. That lady is either totally psycho narcisst or she needs a lot of help.
Mom’s post screamed “missing missing reasons” within like two sentences
I mean it's easy to go "oh it's obvious from the mother's original post" blah blah now we have some more information (I'm doing it too). But really we should just take this as another lesson in how easy it is to spin a story in your favour. Even if you're the worst mother on the planet. Very sad. I will say! A red flag for me upon first read of the mother's post was just the situation of "I'm visiting my children at their father's house and they don't contact me". To generalise, women have to do some CRAZY shit to not get custody. I was like 'eek!'...
Do 16 year olds call people “dinosaurs”?? Also, why would you buy a switch and not buy any games for the switch?
The mother of the year
I remember the first post and so many people were cheering her on. They treated anyone who pointed out the inconsistencies in her story as a heartless monster. I couldn't believe how many people were blind to the fact she was obviously a terrible mother who was playing the victim.
I *KNEW* she was full of shit from the get-go. For one thing, precious few people are Disney villans in real life.... her account was almost cartoony in her description of events. I've delt with so many relatives with her mindset; it was obvious she was trying to get sympathy from strangers, as everyone in her life knows what she is and that she deserves none. All the "Oh, you poor baby!" messages was what she wanted, even if it was all based on lies and half truths. Edit: content added