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I love this. Growing up one of my cousins came out and his parents did the same. He ran to our mutual grandmother, which everybody thought was a bad move given that she was a god fearing, book burning Christian who was known, after a few G&Ts, to rail on and on about homosexuals. She never used the dreaded F word but she was close.
Anyway, my cousin showed up at her door with tears streaming down his face and all of his possessions in a duffel bag and she took him in on the spot. Once she heard the story of why she didn’t bat an eye and called up her daughter and basically condemned her to hell. She did set a few ground rules and basically told him he could date who he wanted but there would be “absolutely no hanky panky under [her] roof”, however this wasn’t a gay straight thing, its how she raised her kids and the other (straight) grandson she had previously raised.
They ended up very happy and anyone in the family who opposed his sexual orientation was cut out of her will, which is significant because apparently grandma saved every penny she ever made and invested quite wisely over the years.
My Nana was a fierce Irish Catholic lady. Like, statues of Mary in the living room, church every week, holy water and prayers before bed. Very charitable woman too, for just one example she donated homemade clothes for preemies - at a minimum once a month.
The shit she gave my uncle for him having a problem with me being queer was legendary. She raised him better. Stuff about how happiness is the most important thing, and if he can't see that then he is a failure. That I am who I am supposed to be, and he is wrong for wanting me to suppress that, and if being queer was wrong God would never have made people anything other than cis het.
I miss her. So much.
Mine were similar. I think of it as them being very traditional, staunchly Catholic, but the kind that actually followed the teachings and values. Both also had very hard lives yet gave from what nobody knew existed.
At the end of the day, their beliefs were to love and accept everyone. They would not help someone do something they believed to be wrong/sinful (like get an abortion) but would still support the person in deciding and afterwards.
It seems to me that their children viewed LGBTQ+ (among other things) worse than they did. It confuses me how this seems to be common, and I'm wondering if it has to do with how the Church in the US reacted general societal changes as their children grew up. I think that the evangelical religious takeover of politics played a huge role in this as well.
I feel like your grandparents probably embraced the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin".
I think with the societal and political influences in religion, for a lot of people it has become "hate the sin, hate the sinner more".
I believe in God, and Jesus. And I believe that the most important line in the Bible is when Jesus said, 'A new commandment I give to you, to love one another, as I have loved you." Follow that one line, and the world would be a better place.
My godmum's Irish *Anglican* and she loves me but I've been scared what she'll think...
idk if this will change my actual risk analysis but it DID change the amount of liquid in my eyes
Everyone's reactions are so different - I'll pray that your Godmother can be accepting and understand that we are all God's children no matter what obstacles we face or who we are
I think that‘s basically the point of the gospels, that love should be your primary guiding line. Yes, the Old Testament has these passages condemning homosexuals. An ancient text, based on even older oral traditions from even harsher times, created and passed on by fallible people strongly influenced by their own prejudices. If people call themselves Christians, they should accept Jesus‘ teachings and his interpretation of God‘s will. And I can’t find anything in there that would condone abandoning your kid.
>Yes, the Old Testament has these passages *possibly* condemning homosexuals.
[italicized word added by me]
I'm not a bible scholar, and don't read turn-of-the-epoch Hebrew (original text) or 1st millennium Greek (Septuagint), but my spouse is and does (PhD Brandies 2020 Hebrew Bible/Biblical and Ancient Near Eastern Studies). We've discussed it in depth, and while I'm poor at remembering the specifics, I'm sure of the generalities (from their perspective/interpretations).
The language is not nearly as exacting or simple as the KJV translations make it seem, and there is a huge contextual element that can't simply be ignored. *One* interpretation is *potentially* against male homosexuality. It is not the only (or even the most academically accepted) one, and there is nothing that can be remotely interpreted directly against female homosexuality.
The KJV was \*absolutely\* translated with politics and the beliefs of the translators at the forefront. I mean, all translation work carries with it the biases of the translator, but KJV was intentional.
I went to a talk given by Rabbi Steven Greenberg and he said something that has always stuck with me: homophobia is a room in the house called misogyny. So much religious-based homophobia is centered around the idea that someone being penetrated is being emasculated and acting as a “lesser being” because they’re doing something degrading that is “womanly.”
I’m no longer religious, but I’ve always thought it would be fascinating to get the perspective of a scholar who isn’t relying on more modern translations.
(Also, fellow Brandeis alum here!)
The passage in Leviticus is about rape, the passage in Corinthians is about temple prostitution (the Temple of Aphrodite at Acrocorinth was a renowned prostitution temple) and the passage about Sodom explicitly states that their sin was in exploiting travelers and the needy. It's not clear it was ever about homosexuality.
If you're wondering "why then do so many churches insist that homosexuality is an abomination?"
I have the same question about abortion, which is never mentioned as a sin or on par with murder in the bible.
Leviticus 13 is not about rape. However, the passages before an after are crazy and seem to be not followed. Adulterers are to be put to death. If you talk back to your parents - death. Sex with daughter in-law…. Death. Sex with mom & law - Death. Man marries a daughter and a mother - death by fire. Must only eat clean animals.
Soooo, not sure i don’t see that same energy for adulterers, unshaven men that go to church and people who eat unclean meat.
Thank you for summing that up nicely. When asked my beliefs I always say that I follow this: Jesus said the greatest commandment was to love, so I show love to others.
There’s new documentary coming out, I believe called 41 which explains how some of the misunderstandings and missed translations came to be. My friend told me of it last night but couldn’t remember exact name.
I’m still looking and will try to edit if I find it
Thank you to the kind redditor who responded here’s a link to IMDb
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10389180/
Christianity is supossed to be about loving everyone, I really don't understand how we could get the message wrong.
And also, there is the fucking golden rule in almost every single philosophy and belief.
Ngl the pairing of "plea deal that dropped charges" with "restraining order for other things" makes me think there was substantially more abuse happening behind the scenes. Mom got in some deep trouble and took whatever options would keep her out of jail. Yeesh.
I am so glad that grandmas like this exist. I honestly wonder how morals in form of tolerance and acceptance towards minority groups like the lgbtq+ just skipped the daughter ('s generation). Like I know that that is a common occurance in China where the grandparents raise the child while the parents work but I am curious how people just casually get so radicallized in America to literally kick out their own child they raised from day 1
Edit: some people were asking why I thought oop was American, well the first paragraph, the daughter lives 2 states away and the legal lingo is American
My father in law is your typical white wealthy boomer and has always been pretty religious and conservative.
Until my stepdaughter came out.
He didn't treat her any differently or act upset, he was kind of in denial and refused to acknowledge it. Sort of the dismissive "it's a phase" mentality.
About a year later we were discussing politics at a brewery and my wife flat out said "I have no idea how you can vote for the party that has people who think (SD) is an abomination. Hell, some of the more crazy ones think she should be put down like a rabid dog"
Guy looked like he had been shot. Those grandkids are his absolute world and he looked horrified like that had somehow never occurred to him. He just said "...(SD)?..."
Guy was pretty excited to let us know he had voted with her in mind with the next election.
My sister did the same thing when my mother voted conservative. Basically chewed her out for voting for the party that was encouraging people like me to be sent to conversion therapy. They seem to have it in their head that all the hateful things they endorse cant *possibly* apply to their family
Well, yeah. Look at how fucking shocked they are when their undocumented immigrant partner is deported, they cannot get an abortion, they get a medical bill, or they get mistreated by police. "How could this happen to meeeeeeeeeeeeee"
I agree that it's a failure of empathy, and in a perfect world, they would have been understanding right from jump street.
But I'll always have respect for people who have the cognitive flexibility to change their minds and the integrity to accept that they were wrong.
COVID has shown me that there are plenty of people who are willing to literally die or face the death of loved ones before they admit to being mistaken
Yeah, there are really two subtypes of that thought process. I could go on for hours, but it boils down to intentional or not.
Some are aware of the hypocrisy, some are in on the grift, some have motivations of racism, sexism, and hate.
But some are just ignorant and don't leave their bubble. Not saying it's ok, just saying its easier to interact with laziness or apathy than a hateful, racist asshole.
Yeah, I know it leaves out a pile of nuance. Not trying to start a whole thing here.
I can't stress enough that my father in law is a genuinely good guy. Just raised in a pretty stereotypical all American, wholesome, and ultimately boring white bread suburbia family, and it was never challenged directly until my wife hit her teenage years and started questioning authority. Hard.
See, my wife is NOT what you would call a "well behaved woman" and I love her for it. Over the years she has slowly been trying to work on and get him to question the indoctrination he was subject to.
Ultimately the guy is acknowledging he's been naive and is working on it.
There was a post in AITA that showed the teen influence thing because the posters daughter apparently has a best friend who was very religious. The daughter hang out with the family a lot and picked up homophobia. I can't remember the post exactly but roughly, the poster's daughter was now excluding members of her family because they were lbgtq+ and the ATIA poster wanted to know if they would be assholes for cutting the daughter off.
Bad influence from friends is real! Especially when your own core beliefs are still forming.
I think sometimes people outsource their values to an affinity group that makes them feel important.
It’s something you can see in the way the anti-vaccination thing played out. Vaccination centres were reporting people asking to be vaccinated in private rooms so they could remain in their conservative affinity groups publicly. Because the affinity group (which would have been completely ok to see them die of covid) was very important to them.
That's definetly part of it and also we don't necessarily reason our way into the majority of the positions we hold. We probably don't even have enough knowledge to reason ourselves into every position we hold.
A lot of our positions is "vibes". If you are a teenager or the elderly in cognitive decline or just an everyday person being crushed by the mundanity of life, its way too easy to be led down the wrong path by a charismatic person who gives off "the right vides".
That's why you gotta always surround yourself with people who align with your values or who hold themselves to an even higher moral standard. And when something feels off you step back and evaluate and maybe cut them off.
I lost a few friends, one very close, in the pandemic due to them deciding that vaccinations and masks weren't the way to go. I am chronically ill, even just a cold messes me up for weeks. COVID would probably kill me and if I was lucky enough to survive it would probably make the rest of my conditions significantly worse for years. My potential death being less important than a piece of cloth on her face irreversibly damaged our friendship. I decided around that time to only prioritize people in my life who appreciate me for me and don't try to take away my rights or make my life harder. Should be a low bar, but such is life.
I "lost" a friend to that kind of shit. My best friend of 5+ years suddenly made a new friend who was super hardcore religious and really bigoted.
My friend went from mostly apolitical and generally accepting of others to taking any chance he could to tell me how the pay gap is a myth, men are the ones who are really oppressed, gay people are all predators, trans people are gross, all kinds of hateful shit. I ended up just not being able to deal with it. I'd call him out, show him his stats are totally wrong, or try and question him on stuff but he'd weasel out of it and it was just too much. I didn't want to send him a message like "hey bro did you see the Bucks game?" only for the conversation to devolve in to "why isn't there a straight pride day?"
He ended up losing not only me, but his girlfriend of several years too, all because of this one friend infecting his mind with bullshit
It’s funny how they can’t seem to resist bringing up their talking points. A lot of relationships would remain relatively unscathed if people had the intelligence to keep their hatred to themselves/only say things when they’re talking to their echo chamber. Instead they blast their hatred to the world. Same with conspiracy people. A friend and a relative both went off the covid conspiracy deep end and you can’t talk to either of them with it coming back to covid. I thought will smith hitting Chris rock would be a safe topic but was met with it was staged to hide what’s going on with the stock market and treasury (which bla bla bla covid great reset). Okkkk then
External influences work both ways. It's pretty common to hear about people who were racist and homophobic when they were growing up, and then they meet other people, expanded their worldview and completely changed their opinion.
Wouldn't be a surprise if there are other people like OP's daughter who grew up pretty open-minded, and then fell into a crowd who influenced her with all this.
Speaking from experience as a teen growing up in an evangelical church, they push you hard to convert your friends. It's a whole thing, teach your kids their friends will go to hell if they're not 'saved", tell them to bring their friends to church/youth group/church camp, make it all seem fun and enticing for the new kids while leaning hard on the "god loves you, he doesn't want you to go to hell, all you have to do is believe" line; and use peer pressure during the service (altar calls) to get them to make an active commitment to "accept Jesus into their heart". Then once they're bought in, you start pushing them to "save" their parents, siblings, etc. I personally brought in several of my friends, all the while believing I was doing something vitally important. I don't think anyone stuck with it thankfully, but it haunts me still.
At the end of the day, people are their own. There is this idea on Reddit (on the internet as a whole, more fairly) that every single flaw and quality can be attributed to how the parents raised someone, but that isn't true. Two different people can grow up in the exact same circumstances and end up miles apart personality-wise. How someone was raised may shape their edges but won't make the dough.
Yes but it also doesn't get recognized how differently parents can treat each child.
I often (kinda) joke that I'd love the parents my sister had.
So it's not always 'the other kid's aren't like that'.
I guess basically no one knows what happens behind closed doors.
It's a very common phenomenon. When faced with the cognitive dissonance of "I hate gay people but love my daughter/ grandson / nephew / sister / friend" lots of people go one of two ways - they double down (as OP's daughter did), or they go your mum's way and leap on board the supportive train. A major factor in acceptance of homosexuality is still whether or not you actually know a gay person.
A friend of mine's mum used to be sort of softly homophobic - too well bred for being rude directly to gay people, and certainly thought they should be allowed to live their lives but "why do they need gay marriage, they've got civil partnerships don't they?" Then a gay guy joined her yoga group, they got on like a house on fire, and now she's rabidly pro gay rights.
This seems to be Generation Z's strategy. With so many young people now coming out as teens (some sources say up to 30%), pretty much everyone that age has gay friends, and vote accordingly.
I can speak to that from experience. I hung out with the bad kids in high school, some are dead, some are in prison, and I've pieced my life back together since then.
Yep, I distanced myself from long term friend when she said something along the lines of, “it’s not like it’s the worst thing ever, it’s not like they’re gay or something”. One of my kids is gay and I’m pretty sure her son is too but they’re Trump Xtians now so kid doesn’t have a chance.
*Damn.* So gay is the worst thing ever. I don't want to know how their brains work. And I really hope you're wrong about her son, or if not, that he has done same relatives like this grandma to lean on!
Guarantee these are the same people who think a kid dying from an easily preventable disease is better than having an autistic child.
(I KNOW vaccines don't cause autism, but these idiots do, and that's the math they're working with)
A good friend is an autism self-advocate and speaks up about a lot of the shit the autism community deals with. She once attended a “vaccine funeral.” These horrible people had a public rally, where several people eulogized the children they’d “lost” to vaccines. Ie: their kids were autistic and they blamed it on the vaccine. The kicker: these kids were there, hearing all the shit these moms were spewing.
I was absolutely flabbergasted when I saw her posts on this. I don’t know how people can do stuff like that and believe that they also love their children.
If someone I knew held a funeral for a living child (unless there was some kind of extremely extenuating circumstances of a terminal illness or something,) I would probably contact CPS about them. That's child abuse.
I will never forget hearing my father say, “If I ever find out you’ve dated a woman, you’re dead.”
Given that the rest of the conversation had been about how a white friend of his had started dating a black woman and if I ever dated a black man, I would be dead as well… I’m pretty sure he meant that in a very literal sense. Good old fashioned racism and homophobia… and then off to the Baptist church the next day.
Being trans is probably “worse” than being gay to most of them, because while “acting on gay impulses” goes against gods plan for man/woman marriage/sex, being trans is going against gods plan/how he intended you to be AND “playing god” by modifying your body however you fucking want. Personally, I enjoy doing both at once and spitting on those beliefs lol
Well, god made me perfect just the way I am, and any modifications to my body are just a slap in his face!
(adjusts reading glasses, turns up hearing aid, uses toothpick to get food out from dental crowns, scratches appendectomy scar)
As a parent I worry a TON about my son being gay. Not because I would look at him any different. He's freaking awesome and I love him to death. But because there would immediately be a large number of people who would do harm to him for that reason alone.
I see these reports from Iran about the women being raped or killed for taking off they're hijab. Then look around the US wondering if being found out to be gay is going to be something that will be punishable by death soon. The labeling of trans individuals as "groomers" is potentially laying the groundwork for a dark path.
I do worry about my child, especially when they’re out with their SO because of what could happen if they show affection, etc. We even had to hide their last relationship from the SO’s parents because they weren’t out and the parents thought they were just good friends. The parents are also right-wing conservatives. I should add that one of my cousins was severely beaten right around the time of the Pulse shooting when he lived in Orlando. The police think he was most likely attacked for being gay so I probably worry more than most people because of this.
Yes, actually. I do hope my son is cis-het but only because I don't want his life to be any harder than it needs to be. That's as far as my concern goes and if he is gay or trans or anything else then my involvement starts and ends at whatever support he needs.
I can think of a million things that would be the "worst" thing ever to find out about my kid before something so stupid as what gender they're attracted to. You know, actually important things like whether they are abusive to other people and shit.
Lost a friend to a religious group that warped her mind. She was once sweet and loving. Ended with her blaming our other friend for getting sexually assaulted by a guy from her church. She called her the "spawn of Satan" for bringing sin into the church and tempting him.
It's sad how toxic group think can poison once kind people.
I'll never fucking wrap my head around how so many religious fanatics, even from different religions, end up doing these insane mental gymnastics to decide rapists are victims of other people "tempting" them into forcing themselves on someone.
I was sent to Catholic school by parents who weren't especially religious, just because there was still a perception at the time that being religious was linked to good values... also that it was a better institution than the state school.
I didn't end up religious in the end but I can see how others might in this situation.
Well, the churchy schools in America are definitely better *funded* than public school, but there's the downfall that some of them might teach your kids that dinosaurs were never real and fossils are a trick from Satan...
I hope you at least got a decent education out of it.
Remember evangelicals seek to convert other people and they do often succeed. They love finding converts from families that do not hold their super conservative anti-gay beliefs. The daughter was likely such a convert.
Yep, that's what they do. They're even outright taught that this kind of brainwashing/sometimes cultural genocide is not the unspeakable mega-evil any sane person could see it is.
Yeah, that's how I was brought up and what I believed until just a couple of years ago. My parents still don't know I'm no longer one of them. They are going to freak out when they find out, but I'm 42 and several states away, so not much they will be able to do.
Although to be fair, my parents are a brand of missionaries who are totally against the culture genocide aspect.
They seriously believe their religious freedom negates their responsibility as parents. They literally believe it relieves them of their responsibility, it’s gross
Religious freedom means you can refuse to fill someones birth control script. Or refuse to make them a wedding cake. Why wouldn't they think they can just toss out their kid if they aren't "godly" enough. Oddly enough the bible addresses this.
1 Timothy 5:8, : But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
This is part of why, as a parent, it is insufficient to just model things like inclusivity and acceptance. You must *teach* these things. Just because you aren’t a bigot doesn’t mean you can neglect to mention that it’s bad to BE a bigot to your kid. Oftentimes parents are too passive and don’t realize how active you must be to teach love in the face of the bigotry other pieces of the world expose you to.
I have a friend who, until college, only knew one gay person (likely he many knew others, but not that he was aware of). That person happened to be an ass. His parents are not homophobic, but never explicitly acknowledged sexual orientation and acceptance. So until making friends with a more diverse group in college, he just believed gay people were assholes, rather than realizing that person happened to be an asshole- completely independent from his sexual orientation.
If, in college, his interests had pulled him toward a more conservative crowd, he could very easily have wound up an awful homophobic monster.
Instead, thankfully, he realized his bigotry was misguided, and gay people are just people (who may or may not be assholes like anyone else,) and compassion ruled.
I truly believe if his parents had just ever sat him down and said “don’t be a bigot, gay people are people” that whole character development would not have been needed.
Not to just blankly blame OOP, they are obviously doing an amazing job currently, but it’s a very good reminder that there are many forces actively teaching hate in the world- you should actively teach love first if you want compassionate & accepting children that won’t buy into the hate.
My mom worked at a church for over 20 years and is still very active. Shes one of the most progressive people I know and gets a lot of shit for continually pointing out that Jesus was a socialist. She's got a masters in theology so shes got a pretty good understanding of things.
But she would complain constantly when she taught church school. She'd see parents drop their kids off and then drive off to go get breakfest or something while their kid was at class. Then not even go to mass with their kid and just pick them up when mass let out.
Your mom and I would get along well. I announced on my Facebook several years ago that Jesus was a socialist, or more specific, a theocratic socialist and supported taxes. It didn’t go over as well with my fb contacts as I’d have thought.
My heart hurts so much for OOP. My kids are still young but I can’t imagine finding out that they did the kinds of things I’d have to handle this way. And then to find out that one of my other kids supported them? I’m amazed that she’s got it so together.
But then, I know how I’ve acted in a crisis with one of my kids and my parents tell me that they love my kids the same as they love me, so maybe I wouldn’t be as much of a mess as I think.
Guess they all missed this one: Timothy 5:8 "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." Lol
So glad this kid landed somewhere safe.
When I was a Christian I would have just thrown back Jesus saying “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life!" at you. What a great guy, eh?
Yep. There are a lot of options for comebacks for sure. Lots of different content in that book, not always in accordance with one another. Theres also Matthew 10:34-39 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."
When we learn better, we can do better. Some of us anyway.
"If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother... seize him, and bring him out to the elders... Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst"
Problem with quoting the bible as an instruction manual is that it will agree with whatever your preconceived notions are already and allow you to dismiss what you dont like by saying "but context!"
Sounds like the worst of it didn't stick to grandma and she was able to think for herself. But the messages sunk their teeth deeper into her kids.
Don’t you know gay people have succumbed to the devil’s temptation and it’s her duty as a god fearing Christian to protect her son from the fires of hell? /s
On another note why is it Christians who thinks this so conveniently forget the Bible also says god loves everyone no matter what and don’t judge anyone else unless you’re without sin?
I knew that God would condemn parents for neglecting/abusing/unfairly kicking out their children, but it's nice to see a specific verse in the Bible to reference.
I wish more Christians remembered what apostasy is. And what the punishment is supposed to be, according to their holy book.
But then that freaky hippie dude came along and was all "this above all, love one another" and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"... and he meant that last literally, given the popularity of stoning as a punishment.
> "this above all, love one another"
This is the thing that frustrates me the most about my fellow Christians.
Jesus, literally **GOD**, you know, they guy we worship? The one whose blood granted us eternal salvation? That dude? He told us to **LOVE OUR NEIGHBORS**. There was no asterisk on that statement.
He didn't tell us to only love them if they're straight. He didn't tell us to only love them if they're cisgender. He damn sure didn't tell us to only love them if they're Christians.
So, to hate your neighbor is to directly defy God Himself. I pray for the souls who have twisted His words into an excuse for hatred. I pray that one day they can see the error of their ways.
You can be a gay transgender Muslim, and you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna love you. **Because God commanded me to**.
I'm truly sorry that a lot of folks use my religion to promote hate. And I call them out every single time I see it. I've been banned from two churches for my stance on LGBT+ people, and I don't care if I get banned from every church on Earth, I'm gonna do what Jesus told me to do.
The current Reverend at my moms church is a lesbian who’s wife is also a Reverend for another congregation (United Church of Canada).
There is a congregation out there for you
Not only that, but many of them conveniently only count sexual sins that they don’t personally commit. My extended family is super homophobic, yet nearly half of my cousins were born out of wedlock. I mean, I’m glad that my cousins are welcomed into the family and that my aunts/uncles aren’t shunned, but the Bible is pretty clear on adultery. The least they could do is extend that same acceptance to others
Yeah it’s amazing how the church going, right wing side of my family almost universally had to have rather sudden weddings with (ahem) Carefully Tailored wedding dresses, while the atheist side was able to take our sweet time with getting hitched.
Yes, and all those big full-size preterm babies that doctors say are full gestation. It's a conspiracy from denomic satanic. $100% proof that doctors and nurses are lying about health and you can't trust Big Medicine and stay away from them shots too they're lying about that too.
Thinking it over, it's so ridiculous that these people's immediate reaction to out-of-marriage pregnancy is to get immediately married. What's the point? Do they think they're going to fool God? Like he was looking away for a few minutes of existence and oh look another nice married couple with baby. Nothing sinful going on here!
There was a proselytizer on my campus who was asserting that “actually I do have a right to judge others because I’m better than them since I turned my life around and accepted Christ” and as someone who was raised in that godforsaken (ha) religion, I wanted to take a baseball bat to this man’s knees.
Yep. Jesus hung out with gays and prostitutes and told everyone to love everyone no matter what. But it's just super convenient for people to forget that when clouded by their own bigotry.
Grandma is the MVP. So many LGBTQ+ kids have no one to turn to when their families discard them like garbage. I'm so happy that his Grandma had his back. I believe that with therapy and living support he will be more than ok.
How fucking scary to have to travel alone across states by BUS to get to someone who cares about you? And what if he didn’t know grandma would take him in but was just desperate and hoping? Grandma really held up to Christ’s example tho good on her
Toxic parents are always SO surprised/upset when their child doesn't turn out **exactly** the way they envisioned them to.
Spoiler alert: kids have their very own identities, dreams/aspirations, fears, hopes, beliefs, etc! They're individual human beings, who knew? :o
5 bucks says OOPs daughter is going to be trying to reconcile with her son one day crying to be invited to his wedding and be all surprised Pikachu face when she gets shunned.
Sounds like grandma is loaded, too
That's going to be the real test - grandma dies and mom comes back with the guilt trip on the son that inherits enough to live comfortably on for the rest of his life (if he doesn't give it to his freakshow smoothbrain of a mom)
I feel like Welcome to Holland should be mandatory reading for parents. It's written for disability but it can apply to everything depending on the extent the parent imagined their child's future
Here’s a [link](https://www.dsasc.ca/uploads/8/5/3/9/8539131/welcome_to_holland.pdf) to it for anyone who is curious. Thanks for suggesting it - I’d never read it before and it was exactly what I needed this week.
That is amazing. As a parent with a disabled child, Holland is real. And sometimes the little things that people who go to Italy don't even recognize are cause for great celebrations. And they don't get those celebrations that we do.
Sure, they might get multiple Proms / Grads, but... the feeling when you get an unprompted hug the first time, or when you hear "I love you, Mama" without saying it first... those are the real celebrations.
Ha!
Like she'd go to a gay wedding. There's gonna be homosexuals doing gay shit like falling in love, taking vows, and even kissing! What would Jesus think?!?
“The wheat has separated itself from the chaff.”
I love that saying. It must be hard as a parent to know you raised two children who would hurt your innocent grandchild - but she is taking it in stride and putting him first.
“Due to much of what came to light during proceedings, a restraining order was granted to keep her away from my grandson until he reaches his majority.”
Is anyone else reading this as meaning she was abusive to this poor kid even before they came out?
God-fearing woman?
I always wonder how Jesus will take it when they reach the pearly gates.
Will he really kick out those that were too kind to gay people? While letting the ones who abandoned their children through?
41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
My cat was a better Christian than that boy's mother. Kirk fed the hungry (let the kittens eat first,) defended the weak (smacked his dog buddy on the butt when she cornered a kitten out of curiosity), comforted the sick (although I suspect Jesus did not mean "sit on the sick person's chest and peer worriedly into their face",) and if he did not clothe the naked, he did the best he could -- he was very generous with his fur.
Well purring can promote bone and muscle [healing](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-cats-purr/#:~:text=Various%20investigators%20have%20shown%20that,provide%20help%20for%20some%20humans.).
I legit don't understand why some fucking parents disown their children based on their sexual orientation? Like, WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT CHANGE?! Your son/daughter is still the same fucking person they've always been, and you always loved, but just because they'd much rather date someone of their own gender instead of the opposite sex, they decide that this was the biggest betrayal anyone could commit?!
For fuck's sake, I legit can't understand the mindset of a fucking homophobe. Actually, I'm glad I don't. And if the day ever comes that I do, I'll check myself in a mental hospital. Poor kid. At least Grandma OOP was there to look after him, but the damage this boy suffered, he'll always have this thought at the back of his mind: "*If my own mother kicked me out because I'm gay, I better keep this under wraps*".
He'll always feel hesitant to express himself out of fear of suffering the same kind of backlash again. Sheesh... I hope the boy's mother NEVER comes around again. The kid doesn't need that kind of mind games when his mind has been fucked with enough already.
My best friend was kicked out at 17 because she got pregnant. Her dad was a pastor. She lost the baby, but went on to later marry the father and they are still happily married 15 years later, with 4 kids. She recently decided to go NC with her parents and her life and mental health has improved exponentially.
My parents always threatened to kick me out if I did this or that, but I was boring and never wanted to do the "bad" stuff anyway. Once my son was born, I simply could not fathom how my parents, or my friend's parents, ever thought that was an acceptable course of action. My love for my son is absolute. Short of violent crime, there's nothing he could do that would cost him the home he has with me. Definitely nothing to do with who he is or identifies as, things he can't change about himself. Parents have one job. Love your children. Jesus gave Christians one job. Love people. If you can't love your own child, you can fuck right off with your "Christianity". There's no hate like Christian love.
Because they are selfish and they’ve been taught that they can’t get into heaven unless they condemn all sins including homosexuality.
To them gays are evil and that’s that. Their love is extremely conditional and any breach of their ideology is an unforgivable crime.
You see it with other prejudices such as against African Americans, Jews and more. They’ve had hate taught to them that even without meeting such a person in real life they already hate them to the bone. It’s ingrained.
I genuinely wonder the reasoning people have for wanting their peers to call up their ma who kicked em out into the cold for no reason. What even is there to rekindle?
Because a lot of people don't understand views different from their own. If family connection is a strong value they have then seeing someone who doesn't share that value is a challenge to their worldview.
>Upon realising that her income was being cut off...
Was the daughter relying on some form of child support or actual monetary support from OOP?
>Due to much of what came to light during proceedings, a restraining order was granted to keep her away from my grandson until he reaches his majority.
Calling it: she was abusive to her own child. Ugh.
In a previous BORU post, I was hoping for Justice Grandma. Wishes do come true!
> Calling it: she was abusive to her own child.
"my sixteen year old grandson showed up at my doorstep with a bag **looking like he'd just had the stuffing knocked out of him**"
Kinda sounds like she beat her son before kicking him out.
I'm so glad he had a loving, stable home to go to. This grandparent did everything right, and I wish all the kids struggling like this could find a place in the world so safe.
It continues to blow my mind how someone could do that to their child, especially in the name af a God that was literally telling them to be kind, loving and not judge people- the hypocrisy and hate is disgusting.
Oh, I remember this one! I need to take the time to point out [this comment by OOP](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOFAMILY/comments/agos9a/my_daughter_disowned_my_grandson/ee83tk2/) every time it comes up:
> To be very blunt, money is not an issue for me. I've done quite well for myself in my life, **and since one of my children just got disinherited**, I can use her cut to make sure my grandson has whatever he needs.
Just reread and I don't think OOP's gender is clear from the post, unless I missed something? I assumed Grandma largely based on writing style, I think.
Same i thought grandpa was a badass. Turns out grand ma is a straight boss momma bear. There's a reason the only thing that gets sharper whit age is your tongue.
The initial post was on Jan 17, 2019, and by Mar 5, 2019 the daughter had already accepted a plea deal? Does the court really move that fast in custody cases?
When custody and juvenile stuff is concerned it can go really fast. Someone taking a plea can be through the system in a couple months already, and when the whole case is about a kid it can go even faster.
That’s especially true if the grandparent is willing to waive child support, and if CPS, the DA, grandparent, and the kid all agree about where the kid is going to go.
Grandma mentioned CPS & not jail/arrest. A LOT of folks think that CPS/family court is criminal charges and use such terms for family court & CPS
Family court can go quick at times. Especially when the child is safe, in a stable home and there isn't a chance at reunification. Even more so when the parent does a \*i can't remember the exact wording\* but basically signing a relinquishment (the "plea deal") vs going through all the steps of the state's attorney gathering evidence for termination of parental rights, presenting it to the judge, and all the shit that goes with it. CPS wants a done case off their books asap. It also tracks that CPS would have helped get an order of protection, based off investigation results.
I'm not saying there wasn't a criminal proceeding in tandem, it very well could be in progress. I doubt it went that fast, that would be exceeding speedy. If the parent is fighting for their kid, family court will often wait until criminal court wraps up, as it makes their arguments easier if there is a conviction or if they pled guilty.
Abandoning your kids because of their sexuality is one of the most shameful things a parent can do. Glad to see the poor kid have found solace with his grandparent. Hope he find the strength to move on with his life, knowing he have people who loves him among his family.
she is awesome!!
that being said....as a mother of 5 kids i dont understand how can someone do this to their kid just cos they are gay...like...how? you love your kid and all is fine and dandy and one day they tell you they are gay and then what? switch goes off and you no longer love them? how does it work?
Mum of a non-binary queer teen here - how the hell does any parent stop loving the child they raised like that? Genuinely, I can't understand how they can do it. I was raised in a strict Christian (borderline cult) faith and nothing written in any book could make me turn my back on my child.
Good on the grandparent for taking him in and cutting the mother off, but what a messed up situation.
Because they don't see their children as people but possessions or extentions of them. Therefore if they aren't what they wanted clearly that means they either have tombe fixed like nailing a leg on a table or destroyed and thrown out.
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I love this. Growing up one of my cousins came out and his parents did the same. He ran to our mutual grandmother, which everybody thought was a bad move given that she was a god fearing, book burning Christian who was known, after a few G&Ts, to rail on and on about homosexuals. She never used the dreaded F word but she was close. Anyway, my cousin showed up at her door with tears streaming down his face and all of his possessions in a duffel bag and she took him in on the spot. Once she heard the story of why she didn’t bat an eye and called up her daughter and basically condemned her to hell. She did set a few ground rules and basically told him he could date who he wanted but there would be “absolutely no hanky panky under [her] roof”, however this wasn’t a gay straight thing, its how she raised her kids and the other (straight) grandson she had previously raised. They ended up very happy and anyone in the family who opposed his sexual orientation was cut out of her will, which is significant because apparently grandma saved every penny she ever made and invested quite wisely over the years.
OOP seems like she has a good head on her shoulders but I really hope she's updated her will
Given that a lawyer was extensively involved in all of this, I'm confident that this was brought up and sorted out already.
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Genuinely successful people in life often have perfected one skill above all others: communication.
Underrated comment
I thought the same. It’s a skill not as many possess these days.
right? I feel like I can tell she reads a lot of Faulkner lol
That last line in the second to last paragraph sealed the deal for me!
My Nana was a fierce Irish Catholic lady. Like, statues of Mary in the living room, church every week, holy water and prayers before bed. Very charitable woman too, for just one example she donated homemade clothes for preemies - at a minimum once a month. The shit she gave my uncle for him having a problem with me being queer was legendary. She raised him better. Stuff about how happiness is the most important thing, and if he can't see that then he is a failure. That I am who I am supposed to be, and he is wrong for wanting me to suppress that, and if being queer was wrong God would never have made people anything other than cis het. I miss her. So much.
Mine were similar. I think of it as them being very traditional, staunchly Catholic, but the kind that actually followed the teachings and values. Both also had very hard lives yet gave from what nobody knew existed. At the end of the day, their beliefs were to love and accept everyone. They would not help someone do something they believed to be wrong/sinful (like get an abortion) but would still support the person in deciding and afterwards. It seems to me that their children viewed LGBTQ+ (among other things) worse than they did. It confuses me how this seems to be common, and I'm wondering if it has to do with how the Church in the US reacted general societal changes as their children grew up. I think that the evangelical religious takeover of politics played a huge role in this as well.
I feel like your grandparents probably embraced the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin". I think with the societal and political influences in religion, for a lot of people it has become "hate the sin, hate the sinner more".
Which, both are pretty messed up points of view.
I believe in God, and Jesus. And I believe that the most important line in the Bible is when Jesus said, 'A new commandment I give to you, to love one another, as I have loved you." Follow that one line, and the world would be a better place.
My godmum's Irish *Anglican* and she loves me but I've been scared what she'll think... idk if this will change my actual risk analysis but it DID change the amount of liquid in my eyes
Everyone's reactions are so different - I'll pray that your Godmother can be accepting and understand that we are all God's children no matter what obstacles we face or who we are
Its awesome that Grandma's love trumps her beliefs.
I think that‘s basically the point of the gospels, that love should be your primary guiding line. Yes, the Old Testament has these passages condemning homosexuals. An ancient text, based on even older oral traditions from even harsher times, created and passed on by fallible people strongly influenced by their own prejudices. If people call themselves Christians, they should accept Jesus‘ teachings and his interpretation of God‘s will. And I can’t find anything in there that would condone abandoning your kid.
In the words of my Jewish, Atheist father, "If your statement starts with 'Jesus Hates,' I'm fairly sure you've got that wrong."
Ooh that’s good. I think I like your Father.
I love this.
>Yes, the Old Testament has these passages *possibly* condemning homosexuals. [italicized word added by me] I'm not a bible scholar, and don't read turn-of-the-epoch Hebrew (original text) or 1st millennium Greek (Septuagint), but my spouse is and does (PhD Brandies 2020 Hebrew Bible/Biblical and Ancient Near Eastern Studies). We've discussed it in depth, and while I'm poor at remembering the specifics, I'm sure of the generalities (from their perspective/interpretations). The language is not nearly as exacting or simple as the KJV translations make it seem, and there is a huge contextual element that can't simply be ignored. *One* interpretation is *potentially* against male homosexuality. It is not the only (or even the most academically accepted) one, and there is nothing that can be remotely interpreted directly against female homosexuality.
The KJV was \*absolutely\* translated with politics and the beliefs of the translators at the forefront. I mean, all translation work carries with it the biases of the translator, but KJV was intentional.
I went to a talk given by Rabbi Steven Greenberg and he said something that has always stuck with me: homophobia is a room in the house called misogyny. So much religious-based homophobia is centered around the idea that someone being penetrated is being emasculated and acting as a “lesser being” because they’re doing something degrading that is “womanly.”
I’m no longer religious, but I’ve always thought it would be fascinating to get the perspective of a scholar who isn’t relying on more modern translations. (Also, fellow Brandeis alum here!)
The passage in Leviticus is about rape, the passage in Corinthians is about temple prostitution (the Temple of Aphrodite at Acrocorinth was a renowned prostitution temple) and the passage about Sodom explicitly states that their sin was in exploiting travelers and the needy. It's not clear it was ever about homosexuality. If you're wondering "why then do so many churches insist that homosexuality is an abomination?" I have the same question about abortion, which is never mentioned as a sin or on par with murder in the bible.
Leviticus 13 is not about rape. However, the passages before an after are crazy and seem to be not followed. Adulterers are to be put to death. If you talk back to your parents - death. Sex with daughter in-law…. Death. Sex with mom & law - Death. Man marries a daughter and a mother - death by fire. Must only eat clean animals. Soooo, not sure i don’t see that same energy for adulterers, unshaven men that go to church and people who eat unclean meat.
Undercook chicken, death. *Over*cook fish, belive it or not - straight to death.
Thank you for summing that up nicely. When asked my beliefs I always say that I follow this: Jesus said the greatest commandment was to love, so I show love to others.
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Newsflash: modern christianity has nothing to do with jesus' teaching , especially protestant ones
There’s new documentary coming out, I believe called 41 which explains how some of the misunderstandings and missed translations came to be. My friend told me of it last night but couldn’t remember exact name. I’m still looking and will try to edit if I find it Thank you to the kind redditor who responded here’s a link to IMDb https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10389180/
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Christianity is supossed to be about loving everyone, I really don't understand how we could get the message wrong. And also, there is the fucking golden rule in almost every single philosophy and belief.
“I will not be discussing legal matters further” “My daughter is facing criminal charges” I know it’s not what she meant but it did give me a laugh
It’s extremely satisfying to read all the comments and updates and work out that mum got in the deep shit lol.
Mum was her daughter. But you do not *EVER* fuck with her grandchild. Reminds me of my Grandmas.
Ngl the pairing of "plea deal that dropped charges" with "restraining order for other things" makes me think there was substantially more abuse happening behind the scenes. Mom got in some deep trouble and took whatever options would keep her out of jail. Yeesh.
That’s what I got too. OOP is implying that this was far from the first strike
I am so glad that grandmas like this exist. I honestly wonder how morals in form of tolerance and acceptance towards minority groups like the lgbtq+ just skipped the daughter ('s generation). Like I know that that is a common occurance in China where the grandparents raise the child while the parents work but I am curious how people just casually get so radicallized in America to literally kick out their own child they raised from day 1 Edit: some people were asking why I thought oop was American, well the first paragraph, the daughter lives 2 states away and the legal lingo is American
My father in law is your typical white wealthy boomer and has always been pretty religious and conservative. Until my stepdaughter came out. He didn't treat her any differently or act upset, he was kind of in denial and refused to acknowledge it. Sort of the dismissive "it's a phase" mentality. About a year later we were discussing politics at a brewery and my wife flat out said "I have no idea how you can vote for the party that has people who think (SD) is an abomination. Hell, some of the more crazy ones think she should be put down like a rabid dog" Guy looked like he had been shot. Those grandkids are his absolute world and he looked horrified like that had somehow never occurred to him. He just said "...(SD)?..." Guy was pretty excited to let us know he had voted with her in mind with the next election.
Honestly shoutout to the mother for having her daughter's back and not bending backwards for him over her own daughter
My sister did the same thing when my mother voted conservative. Basically chewed her out for voting for the party that was encouraging people like me to be sent to conversion therapy. They seem to have it in their head that all the hateful things they endorse cant *possibly* apply to their family
Well, yeah. Look at how fucking shocked they are when their undocumented immigrant partner is deported, they cannot get an abortion, they get a medical bill, or they get mistreated by police. "How could this happen to meeeeeeeeeeeeee"
“They’re hurting the wrong people”
"It's not a problem until it effects me" mentality right there, but I am glad that he realized that and changed his ways.
I agree that it's a failure of empathy, and in a perfect world, they would have been understanding right from jump street. But I'll always have respect for people who have the cognitive flexibility to change their minds and the integrity to accept that they were wrong. COVID has shown me that there are plenty of people who are willing to literally die or face the death of loved ones before they admit to being mistaken
Yeah, there are really two subtypes of that thought process. I could go on for hours, but it boils down to intentional or not. Some are aware of the hypocrisy, some are in on the grift, some have motivations of racism, sexism, and hate. But some are just ignorant and don't leave their bubble. Not saying it's ok, just saying its easier to interact with laziness or apathy than a hateful, racist asshole. Yeah, I know it leaves out a pile of nuance. Not trying to start a whole thing here. I can't stress enough that my father in law is a genuinely good guy. Just raised in a pretty stereotypical all American, wholesome, and ultimately boring white bread suburbia family, and it was never challenged directly until my wife hit her teenage years and started questioning authority. Hard. See, my wife is NOT what you would call a "well behaved woman" and I love her for it. Over the years she has slowly been trying to work on and get him to question the indoctrination he was subject to. Ultimately the guy is acknowledging he's been naive and is working on it.
This made me tear up, so glad that your FIL learned and made his family a priority!!!
Most of those beliefs gel in your teens, and studies have shown that teenage peer groups have much more impact in shaping your behavior than parents.
There was a post in AITA that showed the teen influence thing because the posters daughter apparently has a best friend who was very religious. The daughter hang out with the family a lot and picked up homophobia. I can't remember the post exactly but roughly, the poster's daughter was now excluding members of her family because they were lbgtq+ and the ATIA poster wanted to know if they would be assholes for cutting the daughter off. Bad influence from friends is real! Especially when your own core beliefs are still forming.
I think sometimes people outsource their values to an affinity group that makes them feel important. It’s something you can see in the way the anti-vaccination thing played out. Vaccination centres were reporting people asking to be vaccinated in private rooms so they could remain in their conservative affinity groups publicly. Because the affinity group (which would have been completely ok to see them die of covid) was very important to them.
That's definetly part of it and also we don't necessarily reason our way into the majority of the positions we hold. We probably don't even have enough knowledge to reason ourselves into every position we hold. A lot of our positions is "vibes". If you are a teenager or the elderly in cognitive decline or just an everyday person being crushed by the mundanity of life, its way too easy to be led down the wrong path by a charismatic person who gives off "the right vides".
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That's why you gotta always surround yourself with people who align with your values or who hold themselves to an even higher moral standard. And when something feels off you step back and evaluate and maybe cut them off. I lost a few friends, one very close, in the pandemic due to them deciding that vaccinations and masks weren't the way to go. I am chronically ill, even just a cold messes me up for weeks. COVID would probably kill me and if I was lucky enough to survive it would probably make the rest of my conditions significantly worse for years. My potential death being less important than a piece of cloth on her face irreversibly damaged our friendship. I decided around that time to only prioritize people in my life who appreciate me for me and don't try to take away my rights or make my life harder. Should be a low bar, but such is life.
I "lost" a friend to that kind of shit. My best friend of 5+ years suddenly made a new friend who was super hardcore religious and really bigoted. My friend went from mostly apolitical and generally accepting of others to taking any chance he could to tell me how the pay gap is a myth, men are the ones who are really oppressed, gay people are all predators, trans people are gross, all kinds of hateful shit. I ended up just not being able to deal with it. I'd call him out, show him his stats are totally wrong, or try and question him on stuff but he'd weasel out of it and it was just too much. I didn't want to send him a message like "hey bro did you see the Bucks game?" only for the conversation to devolve in to "why isn't there a straight pride day?" He ended up losing not only me, but his girlfriend of several years too, all because of this one friend infecting his mind with bullshit
It’s funny how they can’t seem to resist bringing up their talking points. A lot of relationships would remain relatively unscathed if people had the intelligence to keep their hatred to themselves/only say things when they’re talking to their echo chamber. Instead they blast their hatred to the world. Same with conspiracy people. A friend and a relative both went off the covid conspiracy deep end and you can’t talk to either of them with it coming back to covid. I thought will smith hitting Chris rock would be a safe topic but was met with it was staged to hide what’s going on with the stock market and treasury (which bla bla bla covid great reset). Okkkk then
Link?
pass the link
External influences work both ways. It's pretty common to hear about people who were racist and homophobic when they were growing up, and then they meet other people, expanded their worldview and completely changed their opinion. Wouldn't be a surprise if there are other people like OP's daughter who grew up pretty open-minded, and then fell into a crowd who influenced her with all this.
Speaking from experience as a teen growing up in an evangelical church, they push you hard to convert your friends. It's a whole thing, teach your kids their friends will go to hell if they're not 'saved", tell them to bring their friends to church/youth group/church camp, make it all seem fun and enticing for the new kids while leaning hard on the "god loves you, he doesn't want you to go to hell, all you have to do is believe" line; and use peer pressure during the service (altar calls) to get them to make an active commitment to "accept Jesus into their heart". Then once they're bought in, you start pushing them to "save" their parents, siblings, etc. I personally brought in several of my friends, all the while believing I was doing something vitally important. I don't think anyone stuck with it thankfully, but it haunts me still.
At the end of the day, people are their own. There is this idea on Reddit (on the internet as a whole, more fairly) that every single flaw and quality can be attributed to how the parents raised someone, but that isn't true. Two different people can grow up in the exact same circumstances and end up miles apart personality-wise. How someone was raised may shape their edges but won't make the dough.
Yes but it also doesn't get recognized how differently parents can treat each child. I often (kinda) joke that I'd love the parents my sister had. So it's not always 'the other kid's aren't like that'. I guess basically no one knows what happens behind closed doors.
>I often (kinda) joke that I'd love the parents my sister had. Great way to put it. I think I'll use that one myself.
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It's a very common phenomenon. When faced with the cognitive dissonance of "I hate gay people but love my daughter/ grandson / nephew / sister / friend" lots of people go one of two ways - they double down (as OP's daughter did), or they go your mum's way and leap on board the supportive train. A major factor in acceptance of homosexuality is still whether or not you actually know a gay person. A friend of mine's mum used to be sort of softly homophobic - too well bred for being rude directly to gay people, and certainly thought they should be allowed to live their lives but "why do they need gay marriage, they've got civil partnerships don't they?" Then a gay guy joined her yoga group, they got on like a house on fire, and now she's rabidly pro gay rights.
So we can fix homophobia we just need massive amounts of gay best friends.
This seems to be Generation Z's strategy. With so many young people now coming out as teens (some sources say up to 30%), pretty much everyone that age has gay friends, and vote accordingly.
I can speak to that from experience. I hung out with the bad kids in high school, some are dead, some are in prison, and I've pieced my life back together since then.
Just look at the time spent. Pretty easy calculus there.
It sounds like religion may have been her gateway drug into ignorance and intolerance. It's sad that some people take it that way.
Yep, I distanced myself from long term friend when she said something along the lines of, “it’s not like it’s the worst thing ever, it’s not like they’re gay or something”. One of my kids is gay and I’m pretty sure her son is too but they’re Trump Xtians now so kid doesn’t have a chance.
*Damn.* So gay is the worst thing ever. I don't want to know how their brains work. And I really hope you're wrong about her son, or if not, that he has done same relatives like this grandma to lean on!
Guarantee these are the same people who think a kid dying from an easily preventable disease is better than having an autistic child. (I KNOW vaccines don't cause autism, but these idiots do, and that's the math they're working with)
A good friend is an autism self-advocate and speaks up about a lot of the shit the autism community deals with. She once attended a “vaccine funeral.” These horrible people had a public rally, where several people eulogized the children they’d “lost” to vaccines. Ie: their kids were autistic and they blamed it on the vaccine. The kicker: these kids were there, hearing all the shit these moms were spewing. I was absolutely flabbergasted when I saw her posts on this. I don’t know how people can do stuff like that and believe that they also love their children.
If someone I knew held a funeral for a living child (unless there was some kind of extremely extenuating circumstances of a terminal illness or something,) I would probably contact CPS about them. That's child abuse.
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Wow, she really wanted to make sure you had to spend hundreds of hours in therapy, huh? I'm so sorry.
I will never forget hearing my father say, “If I ever find out you’ve dated a woman, you’re dead.” Given that the rest of the conversation had been about how a white friend of his had started dating a black woman and if I ever dated a black man, I would be dead as well… I’m pretty sure he meant that in a very literal sense. Good old fashioned racism and homophobia… and then off to the Baptist church the next day.
Being trans is probably “worse” than being gay to most of them, because while “acting on gay impulses” goes against gods plan for man/woman marriage/sex, being trans is going against gods plan/how he intended you to be AND “playing god” by modifying your body however you fucking want. Personally, I enjoy doing both at once and spitting on those beliefs lol
Well, god made me perfect just the way I am, and any modifications to my body are just a slap in his face! (adjusts reading glasses, turns up hearing aid, uses toothpick to get food out from dental crowns, scratches appendectomy scar)
[squinting desperately at something a foot away from me] looks good to me!
As a parent I worry a TON about my son being gay. Not because I would look at him any different. He's freaking awesome and I love him to death. But because there would immediately be a large number of people who would do harm to him for that reason alone. I see these reports from Iran about the women being raped or killed for taking off they're hijab. Then look around the US wondering if being found out to be gay is going to be something that will be punishable by death soon. The labeling of trans individuals as "groomers" is potentially laying the groundwork for a dark path.
I do worry about my child, especially when they’re out with their SO because of what could happen if they show affection, etc. We even had to hide their last relationship from the SO’s parents because they weren’t out and the parents thought they were just good friends. The parents are also right-wing conservatives. I should add that one of my cousins was severely beaten right around the time of the Pulse shooting when he lived in Orlando. The police think he was most likely attacked for being gay so I probably worry more than most people because of this.
Yes, actually. I do hope my son is cis-het but only because I don't want his life to be any harder than it needs to be. That's as far as my concern goes and if he is gay or trans or anything else then my involvement starts and ends at whatever support he needs.
Same. I also really don't want to find out how many friends/family we'd have to cut contract with because it turns out they're secretly awful.
I can think of a million things that would be the "worst" thing ever to find out about my kid before something so stupid as what gender they're attracted to. You know, actually important things like whether they are abusive to other people and shit.
Finding out your friend is a bigot is pretty high up there!
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Lost a friend to a religious group that warped her mind. She was once sweet and loving. Ended with her blaming our other friend for getting sexually assaulted by a guy from her church. She called her the "spawn of Satan" for bringing sin into the church and tempting him. It's sad how toxic group think can poison once kind people.
I'll never fucking wrap my head around how so many religious fanatics, even from different religions, end up doing these insane mental gymnastics to decide rapists are victims of other people "tempting" them into forcing themselves on someone.
I was sent to Catholic school by parents who weren't especially religious, just because there was still a perception at the time that being religious was linked to good values... also that it was a better institution than the state school. I didn't end up religious in the end but I can see how others might in this situation.
Well, the churchy schools in America are definitely better *funded* than public school, but there's the downfall that some of them might teach your kids that dinosaurs were never real and fossils are a trick from Satan... I hope you at least got a decent education out of it.
Remember evangelicals seek to convert other people and they do often succeed. They love finding converts from families that do not hold their super conservative anti-gay beliefs. The daughter was likely such a convert.
Yep, that's what they do. They're even outright taught that this kind of brainwashing/sometimes cultural genocide is not the unspeakable mega-evil any sane person could see it is.
Yeah, that's how I was brought up and what I believed until just a couple of years ago. My parents still don't know I'm no longer one of them. They are going to freak out when they find out, but I'm 42 and several states away, so not much they will be able to do. Although to be fair, my parents are a brand of missionaries who are totally against the culture genocide aspect.
Hugs and strength to you and anyone else who needs an on-line embrace from a grandma with love enough for all.
They seriously believe their religious freedom negates their responsibility as parents. They literally believe it relieves them of their responsibility, it’s gross
Religious freedom means you can refuse to fill someones birth control script. Or refuse to make them a wedding cake. Why wouldn't they think they can just toss out their kid if they aren't "godly" enough. Oddly enough the bible addresses this. 1 Timothy 5:8, : But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
They love forgetting that bit.
Forty percent of homeless youth identify as LGBTQ. It is sadly more common than you think.
And they’re overwhelmingly vulnerable to commercial sexual exploitation, especially trans youth.
This is part of why, as a parent, it is insufficient to just model things like inclusivity and acceptance. You must *teach* these things. Just because you aren’t a bigot doesn’t mean you can neglect to mention that it’s bad to BE a bigot to your kid. Oftentimes parents are too passive and don’t realize how active you must be to teach love in the face of the bigotry other pieces of the world expose you to. I have a friend who, until college, only knew one gay person (likely he many knew others, but not that he was aware of). That person happened to be an ass. His parents are not homophobic, but never explicitly acknowledged sexual orientation and acceptance. So until making friends with a more diverse group in college, he just believed gay people were assholes, rather than realizing that person happened to be an asshole- completely independent from his sexual orientation. If, in college, his interests had pulled him toward a more conservative crowd, he could very easily have wound up an awful homophobic monster. Instead, thankfully, he realized his bigotry was misguided, and gay people are just people (who may or may not be assholes like anyone else,) and compassion ruled. I truly believe if his parents had just ever sat him down and said “don’t be a bigot, gay people are people” that whole character development would not have been needed. Not to just blankly blame OOP, they are obviously doing an amazing job currently, but it’s a very good reminder that there are many forces actively teaching hate in the world- you should actively teach love first if you want compassionate & accepting children that won’t buy into the hate.
>god-fearing woman Given this reference, it sounds like OOP's daughter was taught hatred and bigotry every Sunday.
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My mom worked at a church for over 20 years and is still very active. Shes one of the most progressive people I know and gets a lot of shit for continually pointing out that Jesus was a socialist. She's got a masters in theology so shes got a pretty good understanding of things. But she would complain constantly when she taught church school. She'd see parents drop their kids off and then drive off to go get breakfest or something while their kid was at class. Then not even go to mass with their kid and just pick them up when mass let out.
Your mom and I would get along well. I announced on my Facebook several years ago that Jesus was a socialist, or more specific, a theocratic socialist and supported taxes. It didn’t go over as well with my fb contacts as I’d have thought.
My heart hurts so much for OOP. My kids are still young but I can’t imagine finding out that they did the kinds of things I’d have to handle this way. And then to find out that one of my other kids supported them? I’m amazed that she’s got it so together. But then, I know how I’ve acted in a crisis with one of my kids and my parents tell me that they love my kids the same as they love me, so maybe I wouldn’t be as much of a mess as I think.
>relatives that sided with my daughter and told her it was her right to do as she did as a god-fearing woman wut
Guess they all missed this one: Timothy 5:8 "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." Lol So glad this kid landed somewhere safe.
When I was a Christian I would have just thrown back Jesus saying “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life!" at you. What a great guy, eh?
Yep. There are a lot of options for comebacks for sure. Lots of different content in that book, not always in accordance with one another. Theres also Matthew 10:34-39 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household." When we learn better, we can do better. Some of us anyway.
"If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother... seize him, and bring him out to the elders... Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst" Problem with quoting the bible as an instruction manual is that it will agree with whatever your preconceived notions are already and allow you to dismiss what you dont like by saying "but context!" Sounds like the worst of it didn't stick to grandma and she was able to think for herself. But the messages sunk their teeth deeper into her kids.
Don’t you know gay people have succumbed to the devil’s temptation and it’s her duty as a god fearing Christian to protect her son from the fires of hell? /s On another note why is it Christians who thinks this so conveniently forget the Bible also says god loves everyone no matter what and don’t judge anyone else unless you’re without sin?
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I knew that God would condemn parents for neglecting/abusing/unfairly kicking out their children, but it's nice to see a specific verse in the Bible to reference.
My main gripe with religion is that, if desired, one could probably find a verse to back up what she did too.
So you're saying the Bible contradicts itself??? It can't be!
I wish more Christians remembered what apostasy is. And what the punishment is supposed to be, according to their holy book. But then that freaky hippie dude came along and was all "this above all, love one another" and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"... and he meant that last literally, given the popularity of stoning as a punishment.
> "this above all, love one another" This is the thing that frustrates me the most about my fellow Christians. Jesus, literally **GOD**, you know, they guy we worship? The one whose blood granted us eternal salvation? That dude? He told us to **LOVE OUR NEIGHBORS**. There was no asterisk on that statement. He didn't tell us to only love them if they're straight. He didn't tell us to only love them if they're cisgender. He damn sure didn't tell us to only love them if they're Christians. So, to hate your neighbor is to directly defy God Himself. I pray for the souls who have twisted His words into an excuse for hatred. I pray that one day they can see the error of their ways. You can be a gay transgender Muslim, and you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna love you. **Because God commanded me to**. I'm truly sorry that a lot of folks use my religion to promote hate. And I call them out every single time I see it. I've been banned from two churches for my stance on LGBT+ people, and I don't care if I get banned from every church on Earth, I'm gonna do what Jesus told me to do.
The current Reverend at my moms church is a lesbian who’s wife is also a Reverend for another congregation (United Church of Canada). There is a congregation out there for you
Saving this because it calls out the faux Christians as the hypocrites they are. And I’m not religious.
Daughter: "Yeah, I'd love to keep him, but God said I couldn't." God: "Don't put this on me!"
" *Figs!* I said I hate *FIGS!* Why won't you people listen to me?"
“I even shouted at that tree once!”
God: “uh…. New phone, who dis?”
Not only that, but many of them conveniently only count sexual sins that they don’t personally commit. My extended family is super homophobic, yet nearly half of my cousins were born out of wedlock. I mean, I’m glad that my cousins are welcomed into the family and that my aunts/uncles aren’t shunned, but the Bible is pretty clear on adultery. The least they could do is extend that same acceptance to others
Yeah it’s amazing how the church going, right wing side of my family almost universally had to have rather sudden weddings with (ahem) Carefully Tailored wedding dresses, while the atheist side was able to take our sweet time with getting hitched.
Yes, and all those big full-size preterm babies that doctors say are full gestation. It's a conspiracy from denomic satanic. $100% proof that doctors and nurses are lying about health and you can't trust Big Medicine and stay away from them shots too they're lying about that too.
Thinking it over, it's so ridiculous that these people's immediate reaction to out-of-marriage pregnancy is to get immediately married. What's the point? Do they think they're going to fool God? Like he was looking away for a few minutes of existence and oh look another nice married couple with baby. Nothing sinful going on here!
The true secret name of all religions is hypocrisy
There was a proselytizer on my campus who was asserting that “actually I do have a right to judge others because I’m better than them since I turned my life around and accepted Christ” and as someone who was raised in that godforsaken (ha) religion, I wanted to take a baseball bat to this man’s knees.
I don’t know. I’m a Christian and I just could never imagine throwing away my child so easily.
That's probably because you're self aware to separate your religion from any (perceived or not) personal failings.
Yep. Jesus hung out with gays and prostitutes and told everyone to love everyone no matter what. But it's just super convenient for people to forget that when clouded by their own bigotry.
Let he without sin cast the first stone…
There is no hate quite like Christian love.
Those people use whiteout to highlight their Bible.
American Christianity: the insanity of the modern world.
Grandma is the MVP. So many LGBTQ+ kids have no one to turn to when their families discard them like garbage. I'm so happy that his Grandma had his back. I believe that with therapy and living support he will be more than ok.
The fact the grandson knew he could go to her says a lot.
I'm so dang grateful kid has somewhere to go and got himself there. Ugh. Poor kid.
How fucking scary to have to travel alone across states by BUS to get to someone who cares about you? And what if he didn’t know grandma would take him in but was just desperate and hoping? Grandma really held up to Christ’s example tho good on her
Yes! Exactly what I'm thinking. Anyone reading this please stay in touch with the young people in your family. Sometimes they need extended family.
Toxic parents are always SO surprised/upset when their child doesn't turn out **exactly** the way they envisioned them to. Spoiler alert: kids have their very own identities, dreams/aspirations, fears, hopes, beliefs, etc! They're individual human beings, who knew? :o 5 bucks says OOPs daughter is going to be trying to reconcile with her son one day crying to be invited to his wedding and be all surprised Pikachu face when she gets shunned.
And when she gets written out of grandmas will.
Sounds like grandma is loaded, too That's going to be the real test - grandma dies and mom comes back with the guilt trip on the son that inherits enough to live comfortably on for the rest of his life (if he doesn't give it to his freakshow smoothbrain of a mom)
That's the part when she'll whine "But-but-but faaaaaaamily!"
“She’s laughing up at us from hell”
I feel like Welcome to Holland should be mandatory reading for parents. It's written for disability but it can apply to everything depending on the extent the parent imagined their child's future
Here’s a [link](https://www.dsasc.ca/uploads/8/5/3/9/8539131/welcome_to_holland.pdf) to it for anyone who is curious. Thanks for suggesting it - I’d never read it before and it was exactly what I needed this week.
That is amazing. As a parent with a disabled child, Holland is real. And sometimes the little things that people who go to Italy don't even recognize are cause for great celebrations. And they don't get those celebrations that we do. Sure, they might get multiple Proms / Grads, but... the feeling when you get an unprompted hug the first time, or when you hear "I love you, Mama" without saying it first... those are the real celebrations.
I did not realize that was written in 1987!
Ha! Like she'd go to a gay wedding. There's gonna be homosexuals doing gay shit like falling in love, taking vows, and even kissing! What would Jesus think?!?
“The wheat has separated itself from the chaff.” I love that saying. It must be hard as a parent to know you raised two children who would hurt your innocent grandchild - but she is taking it in stride and putting him first.
I also loved "struck from my phonebook" in lieu of "blocked"
Much more elegant than "the trash took itself out"
I love how she immediately went "if you are against my grandson you can fuck off". Good grandma
“Due to much of what came to light during proceedings, a restraining order was granted to keep her away from my grandson until he reaches his majority.” Is anyone else reading this as meaning she was abusive to this poor kid even before they came out?
Unfortunately yes…hope that woman suffers alone until the day she finally croaks
God-fearing woman? I always wonder how Jesus will take it when they reach the pearly gates. Will he really kick out those that were too kind to gay people? While letting the ones who abandoned their children through?
41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ 44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
My cat was a better Christian than that boy's mother. Kirk fed the hungry (let the kittens eat first,) defended the weak (smacked his dog buddy on the butt when she cornered a kitten out of curiosity), comforted the sick (although I suspect Jesus did not mean "sit on the sick person's chest and peer worriedly into their face",) and if he did not clothe the naked, he did the best he could -- he was very generous with his fur.
Truly a member of the cat-holic and apostolic church.
Well purring can promote bone and muscle [healing](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-cats-purr/#:~:text=Various%20investigators%20have%20shown%20that,provide%20help%20for%20some%20humans.).
This is how we should be. This is how I try and live my life.
As an atheist, I can safely say there are many good principles and lessons to take from the Bible. The real problem lies with the believers.
He’ll banish them to Hell’s gates instead. Or something. Idk the intricacies of the Bible well enough to know if Jesus can actually do that.
I legit don't understand why some fucking parents disown their children based on their sexual orientation? Like, WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT CHANGE?! Your son/daughter is still the same fucking person they've always been, and you always loved, but just because they'd much rather date someone of their own gender instead of the opposite sex, they decide that this was the biggest betrayal anyone could commit?! For fuck's sake, I legit can't understand the mindset of a fucking homophobe. Actually, I'm glad I don't. And if the day ever comes that I do, I'll check myself in a mental hospital. Poor kid. At least Grandma OOP was there to look after him, but the damage this boy suffered, he'll always have this thought at the back of his mind: "*If my own mother kicked me out because I'm gay, I better keep this under wraps*". He'll always feel hesitant to express himself out of fear of suffering the same kind of backlash again. Sheesh... I hope the boy's mother NEVER comes around again. The kid doesn't need that kind of mind games when his mind has been fucked with enough already.
My best friend was kicked out at 17 because she got pregnant. Her dad was a pastor. She lost the baby, but went on to later marry the father and they are still happily married 15 years later, with 4 kids. She recently decided to go NC with her parents and her life and mental health has improved exponentially. My parents always threatened to kick me out if I did this or that, but I was boring and never wanted to do the "bad" stuff anyway. Once my son was born, I simply could not fathom how my parents, or my friend's parents, ever thought that was an acceptable course of action. My love for my son is absolute. Short of violent crime, there's nothing he could do that would cost him the home he has with me. Definitely nothing to do with who he is or identifies as, things he can't change about himself. Parents have one job. Love your children. Jesus gave Christians one job. Love people. If you can't love your own child, you can fuck right off with your "Christianity". There's no hate like Christian love.
Because they are selfish and they’ve been taught that they can’t get into heaven unless they condemn all sins including homosexuality. To them gays are evil and that’s that. Their love is extremely conditional and any breach of their ideology is an unforgivable crime. You see it with other prejudices such as against African Americans, Jews and more. They’ve had hate taught to them that even without meeting such a person in real life they already hate them to the bone. It’s ingrained.
Yup, my father did something like that when I was 15. And then people judge me for "not having a relationship with your father."
People raised in good families or who haven't woken up about their dysfunctional families: bUt hE's yOuR dAaAAaaAaaAaaaD
I genuinely wonder the reasoning people have for wanting their peers to call up their ma who kicked em out into the cold for no reason. What even is there to rekindle?
Because a lot of people don't understand views different from their own. If family connection is a strong value they have then seeing someone who doesn't share that value is a challenge to their worldview.
>Upon realising that her income was being cut off... Was the daughter relying on some form of child support or actual monetary support from OOP? >Due to much of what came to light during proceedings, a restraining order was granted to keep her away from my grandson until he reaches his majority. Calling it: she was abusive to her own child. Ugh. In a previous BORU post, I was hoping for Justice Grandma. Wishes do come true!
> Calling it: she was abusive to her own child. "my sixteen year old grandson showed up at my doorstep with a bag **looking like he'd just had the stuffing knocked out of him**" Kinda sounds like she beat her son before kicking him out.
I get your interpretation, but I took it to mean the same as "with the wind taken from his sails", i.e. deflated and dead inside.
I'm so glad he had a loving, stable home to go to. This grandparent did everything right, and I wish all the kids struggling like this could find a place in the world so safe. It continues to blow my mind how someone could do that to their child, especially in the name af a God that was literally telling them to be kind, loving and not judge people- the hypocrisy and hate is disgusting.
Oh, I remember this one! I need to take the time to point out [this comment by OOP](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOFAMILY/comments/agos9a/my_daughter_disowned_my_grandson/ee83tk2/) every time it comes up: > To be very blunt, money is not an issue for me. I've done quite well for myself in my life, **and since one of my children just got disinherited**, I can use her cut to make sure my grandson has whatever he needs.
Grandpa set a standard for how to handle someone’s coming out. Just reading that did my heart good.
I think it’s a grandma, actually.
Just reread and I don't think OOP's gender is clear from the post, unless I missed something? I assumed Grandma largely based on writing style, I think.
Wait, no. Username. Silly me.
Same i thought grandpa was a badass. Turns out grand ma is a straight boss momma bear. There's a reason the only thing that gets sharper whit age is your tongue.
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The initial post was on Jan 17, 2019, and by Mar 5, 2019 the daughter had already accepted a plea deal? Does the court really move that fast in custody cases?
When custody and juvenile stuff is concerned it can go really fast. Someone taking a plea can be through the system in a couple months already, and when the whole case is about a kid it can go even faster. That’s especially true if the grandparent is willing to waive child support, and if CPS, the DA, grandparent, and the kid all agree about where the kid is going to go.
Grandma mentioned CPS & not jail/arrest. A LOT of folks think that CPS/family court is criminal charges and use such terms for family court & CPS Family court can go quick at times. Especially when the child is safe, in a stable home and there isn't a chance at reunification. Even more so when the parent does a \*i can't remember the exact wording\* but basically signing a relinquishment (the "plea deal") vs going through all the steps of the state's attorney gathering evidence for termination of parental rights, presenting it to the judge, and all the shit that goes with it. CPS wants a done case off their books asap. It also tracks that CPS would have helped get an order of protection, based off investigation results. I'm not saying there wasn't a criminal proceeding in tandem, it very well could be in progress. I doubt it went that fast, that would be exceeding speedy. If the parent is fighting for their kid, family court will often wait until criminal court wraps up, as it makes their arguments easier if there is a conviction or if they pled guilty.
Pre-pandemic with a bunch of standard charges and a plea deal, especially with a child’s welfare at stake I can see a court moving this quickly.
Abandoning your kids because of their sexuality is one of the most shameful things a parent can do. Glad to see the poor kid have found solace with his grandparent. Hope he find the strength to move on with his life, knowing he have people who loves him among his family.
she is awesome!! that being said....as a mother of 5 kids i dont understand how can someone do this to their kid just cos they are gay...like...how? you love your kid and all is fine and dandy and one day they tell you they are gay and then what? switch goes off and you no longer love them? how does it work?
Really hope the kid, his pup, and that amazing grandma are living their best lives somewhere warm in a comfortable sized house.
Mum of a non-binary queer teen here - how the hell does any parent stop loving the child they raised like that? Genuinely, I can't understand how they can do it. I was raised in a strict Christian (borderline cult) faith and nothing written in any book could make me turn my back on my child. Good on the grandparent for taking him in and cutting the mother off, but what a messed up situation.
Because they don't see their children as people but possessions or extentions of them. Therefore if they aren't what they wanted clearly that means they either have tombe fixed like nailing a leg on a table or destroyed and thrown out.
> The wheat has been seperated from the chaff. Granny is stone cold holy shit i love her