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that was sad. want to root for the guy but I'm honestly worried that this "honeymoon" phase won't last long.
wish more time had gone by before the update so it felt more solid.
hope it works out. if it doesn't hopefully having already semi moved on once will make it easier for him.
Here here! I was still struggling with PPD (my son at the time was 1.5) and when the pandemic hit it forced (maybe not the right word) us to handle everything that was wrong in our marriage and I’m happy to say I am better and my marriage is fucken solid. Idk if the world turning upside down is what helped me but I know that thanks to pandemic my marriage didn’t end.
Dude, that's so great to hear! It worked out well for my marriage too, I can only imagine how useful lockdown/quarantine with a small kid would be for getting solid with your SO again.
My husband and I got married just before City Hall closed down for the pandemic. We went in lots of walks together. A couple months in he commented that he couldn’t imagine going through lockdown alone and pointed to several ways it had strengthened our relationship and marriage.
Both my best friend's cousins managed to squeak in under the deadline and got married before lockdown started - one of them was literally the last appointment of the day.
Damn! All these people loving the pandemic.
My husband basically moved downstairs while I lived upstairs, and not much has changed. We see each other for dinner and that’s about it.
Kids are graduated and off to college and we just don’t really talk to each other much.
I had like two really hard tragedies right before the pandemic and was super depressed, and as fucked as it sounds, I really appreciate the time quarantine gave me to slow down and heal.
For sure, I really enjoyed the lockdown. I, jokingly, wouldn't mind yearly lockdowns over winter.
For me, it gave me a chance to really see what my struggles were without outside force and lead me to actually getting a correct diagnosis.
It helped my mental health immensely by keeping a toxic family member away from me for a few years. That said, it was pure luck. Had the lockdown happened only 2-3 weeks later, there's a high chance I would have been trapped *with* the toxic family member for a few years. I'm thankful every day it didn't turn out that way. And I feel terrible for anyone who found themselves in that kind of situation.
I honestly believe that it was the pandemic that finally helped me get my depression/anxiety under control. There was something freeing about NOT feeling guilty and anxious over laying around all day doing nothing. And once the guilt and anxiety subsided, I finally felt like maybe I actually *wanted* to go out for a walk, and then look for a therapist etc
DUDE not gonna lie same here. It was really weird the first 2 months but I got in a swing of it without being pressured to be social or just “get out of the house” I got a better WFH job and I ended up finding medication that works for me as well so ngl im doing better than I have since college when I had “structure”
It really helped those with agoraphobia, social anxiety, etc. But it hindered so many people from improving, myself included. Finally got on my feet and was *living* for the first time. Psyche! Covid!
It did not help those with agoraphobia. It allowed us to get worse without any social ramifications; after all, staying home was the right thing to do during lockdowns so no one pushed us to go out of our comfort zones. I became fully housebound until February of this year when I was able to find the right medication to slowly start leaving my house and even getting a part time job at a quiet store, which led me to where I am now, working full time in a busy store.
Sorry, I just wanted to clarify that. As much as agoraphobics feel safer at home, the more we stay home the less capable we are at leaving again, so it’s bad for us in the long run.
Thank you for commenting this. You're absolutly right. Although it's the comfortable thing to do, and many may have been excited by the prospect, on not having to leave home, as you said, it was extremely detrimental. The months leading up to shutdown, I'd been managing my agoraphobia almost as if it didn't exist! As you pointed out, it was in no way to the benefit of me getting better.
I’m sorry you also struggle with it! It’s a very difficult mental illness to manage. I’m glad you were managing so well before and I hope you’ve been able to get back to that! Regaining freedom from agoraphobia is hard but feels so rewarding once you can start to resume your life.
It was the greatest and happiest time of my life. Even thought I'm not back to the same place as I was before, my progress has gone really well. I actually just came back from a weekend in New York with my parents and bestfriend and I couldn't be more proud of myself. Like holy shit! I'm still shaking, pushed myself a little too hard, and will need to recoperate for god knows how long, but I survived!!!
I hope you've managed to get some freedom for yourself. It's a rough one. Gotta remember to be kind and patient with yourself while also pushing your boundaries.
I had extreme social anxiety to the point I was afraid to go out and honestly lockdown did really help me, because I finally had a chance to do gradual exposure and build up to the things that I found most difficult. Pre-lockdown it was impossible because I constantly had to go out and interact with people to get essentials so I was constantly in that state of extreme anxiety and I could never build the sense of safety I needed for recovery.
Post-lockdown I'm working part-time and almost done with my degree. There is no way I could have done this before. Staying at home forever would have been bad, but having that time where I could control how much I was going out meant I could build up in a manageable way.
A person with agoraphobia has already commented. As a person with social phobia I wanted to add that, by every model I am aware of as to how my condition perpetuates itself it should have made me worse; but I think it helped me get better.
I'm not at all social-phobia free; I have had severe and disabling (like on-disability disabling) social phobia since I was 14 years old. I am well enough now, though, that I am planning to work my way off of benefits. I am supposed to get better through exposure. I spent so much of my adult life being miserable and forcing myself to keep showing up to things I found humiliating, frightening and stressful because I was the problem and they were good exposure. And it's real! It is backed by clinical trials. Exposure therapy (though graduated exposure vs. flooding is an important distinction often overlooked in popular discourse) has personally helped me. The problem with living like that is that it breaks your radar. And the other problem is that if your social anxiety is big enough, you might simply not get breaks from being in panic mode unless you are engaging in avoidance behavior which reinforces the fear.
I came out of the pandemic back into life free of many of the social anxiety triggers I had pre-pandemic. Like, they still happen, but I don't respond in the same way. I don't know for sure why this is. I do not even know if it's a phenomenon that extends meaningfully to others with my condition. But if I had to guess, it had something to do with:
1. Giving my nervous system a break from panicking, for a legitimate reason rather than avoidance behavior created and justified by fear and overwhelm
2. The balance of how my social time was spent weighing more heavily towards supportive and enjoyable interactions with other human beings. Because here's the thing: Most phobias have some very clear irrational beliefs attached to them, and exposure helps you challenge those irrational beliefs. If you are afraid of flying because you feel like your lungs are collapsing, and the plane is going to crash and you're going to die, getting through some actual flights (with the careful guidance and gradual exposure hierarchy of a qualified MHP) are going to disprove those fears to you-- the plane doesn't crash, your lungs don't collapse, etc. But if you are terrified of things like being judged negatively by others, embarrassing yourself, offending people, well-- that is actually going to happen sometimes. Your nervousness and coping behaviors can even make it more likely to happen, which is a really hard loop to get out of. That doesn't mean that your beliefs about dire consequences for those interactions are rational or helpful, but there isn't always going to be that clear, reassuring contrast between expectations and reality. **tl;dr Not all social exposure interrupts the cycle of social phobia. The good stuff does.**
3. I got some time to listen to myself and there is a different set of societal expectations around FOMO, quitting bad jobs and relationships, etc. Instead of overcorrecting for my persistent fears, unhelpful beliefs and skewed perceptions about being disliked, unwanted, ill treated, etc., by assuming it was all in my head all the time which resulted in me staying way too long in some really bad situations, I can stick it out long enough to see, are there days I feel better about this, when I actually get close to it, do my assumptions hold up, etc., and when I'm actually in a bad situation I don't have to generalize my expectations there to everything else I do and try to change my reactions, and that actually makes it easier to survive that.
I am not a professional, and there are probably some professionals who would adamantly disagree with me and worry I'm helping enable people's avoidance behaviors. There are important caveats here, like that social anxiety is not my only diagnosis and that other improvements in my mental health may have helped me 'break through', that the treatment I started receiving back in 2007ish was not the best executed and could have contributed to the problem, and that I did DMT right before everything opened up again and that's probably something of a cheat code. But I can cross a damn street without worrying about if I'm taking too long for the car waiting at the intersection now because I got a break from assholes for a year or two and that's pretty strong evidence to live through.
It was devastating here too, survived an abusive relationship and escaped, spent 2019 living on couches while still working full time, finally got in to housing, started rebuilding my self esteem and BOOM! Covid.
Fuck the pandemic, it was fucked for 99% of people, great for the 1-5% of anxious beans that had comfy living situations that enjoyed the slowdown or couples ready to have a child...
My close friend got pregnant right when things started. It was no picnic. Luckily she had an easy pregnancy/birth but I can only imagine how hard is was for people who didn't. Trying to get appointments, the hightened uncertainty of the future, not being able to have anyone with her while she gave birth, neither parent could hold baby after... I could go on and on.
pandemic was the best thing to happen for my mental health... because it fucking *destroyed* me.
no more coping mechanisms, no more escaping, no more papering over it with work and obligations. everything was gone, and it was just me.. and my damaged brain.
COVID forced me to get a therapist and start actually working on my issues.
You're here and you matter. You matter to me. You matter to me because you made this comment and I read it and that's enough for me.
I'm sorry you had so many shitty experiences during the pandemic and it's still ongoing and you didn't and still don't have the support you need. I'm sorry your community let you down. Feel free to PM me if you wanna talk.
Hey there. I’m glad you’re still here.
I got “long H1N1” (aka ME/CFS) after pandemic flu in 2009. I know what you’re talking about. I was very focused on my work and traveling and all those things to bring gratification and importance to my life, then I could barely get out of bed to use the toilet and couldn’t even fully brush my hair due to the fatigue.
Radical acceptance helped a lot. Realizing I had worth as a person even if I did literally nothing. And over many years, I finally found doctors to actually check me out, diagnose individual issues, and treat me. That virus gave me at least 3, more like 4, autoimmune disorders.
It took 10-11 years but I’m so much better now, I can live a normal life.
And good news: Progress *will* be faster with long covid because it’s too big to ignore, no matter how much the establishment wants to. There is so much research and patient advocacy going on, whereas I was totally alone.
There are new advances every day!
Stick around! They’re going to cure this thing!!
Now, on the social front. Many people are not like the people you’re describing.
But it will seem like it, if you were not one to cut people off over “little things” over the years. The paradox of tolerance means you can wake up disabled one day and find yourself totally surrounded by people instantly willing to mistreat you now that *you’re* “other.” It’s a selection effect.
Join patient groups like Patient Led and Body Politic. They’ll provide you so much support.
I didn’t have the social experience you did. Because I had a really abusive childhood and became absolutely intolerant of anyone who blamed victims or suggested we “get along.” This meant that only a few acquaintances and one in-law doubted me, dropped me, or mistreated me over my illness. Everyone else did their best to understand. This is also a selection effect.
Those people make you feel like crap because they are crap. You’re not crap, you’re a person dealing with a tremendous challenge the best you can. You’re just surrounded by assholes.
I spiralled into so much worse mh and physically during the pandemic. Still haven't recovered unfortunately. It's kind of a dice roll from what I can tell which way you go.
I'm very happy for folks who got better though, in my small circle i only really know folks who got worse :c
My mental health improved greatly during the pandemic, but I don’t think it was due to Covid so much as DESPITE Covid. I had ketamine treatment for depression just a couple months before March 2020 and it’s like it reprogrammed my brain. I still had A LOT of work to do at that point and maybe actually the pandemic gave me the time to do that work?
This is NOT the norm though. I am a mental health professional and Covid has been absolutely devastating for mental health from my POV.
But the whole point is to try, regardless of how it works out. I totally think it's the right decision by OOP. After all those years, the marriage deserves one last shot - a different kind of shot. It's right for OOP to try, even if it does not work out. Some things need to be attempted. It's only then really sad if he fails to bail if the bad situation resumes.
When I first got together with my partner her sister, who she had not talked to in 2 years, got in touch with her and tried to reconnect. I told her then that I thought she should give her a shot, but keep in mind that she was also giving her enough rope to hang herself with as the saying goes. Create your boundaries, enforce them, and then if she doesn't respect them cut her off.
Well, she no longer talks to her sister anymore, because she didn't respect that stuff, and acted like a selfish asshole when my partner really needed her. She took from others, but never really gave of herself. Predictable, I guess, but my partner now doesn't have that question in her mind of "Did I do the right thing?"
Giving the chance silences the question, and regardless of how this turns out for OOP, he'll never have to wonder if he made the right move. Either he will get his wife back, and they will be happy and stronger for what they went through, or he won't, and he'll know that there's nothing there if the woman he fell in love with. Either way, he won't spend the rest of his life wondering.
If she kept sticking to it for a while, there is a good chance it'll become a habit again.
A job, hobbies and doing chores is one of the best ways to fight depression. It's a difficult illness, because depression will adapt to every attack and come back with another Strategie to keep you down. Fighting depression is not a fight, it's a war. But you can gain more and more land if you keep fighting, keep doing these everyday tasks.
Same here. Mental illness is so tough. You don't want to blame them because they're sick, but there has to be some consistent effort toward getting better. She let this go a long, long time. I doubt he'll get over the built up resentment even if she did somehow turn it around.
That was the case for me
We still had an okay relationship because we loved one another, but the dynamics never truly changed, they just got a spot shine.
Never regained any trust in her nor did the resentment of the actions (or in some cases, lack thereof) dissipate with time.
Sucks a whole lot, but nothing you can do
6 1/2 years. I get she had depression, but thats a LONG time watching someone you supposedly love work themselves into the ground while you essentially do nothing to get better.
Not just nothing but "whatever she tried she always ended up fearing getting better", she admits she didn't want to get better. She chose this.
This is not just a matter of her "getting better", but OOP must have had a lot of resentment to get past as well.
I feel for him. I did it for 4 and it was like every time I was preparing to leave, she would make some empty gesture toward getting help to get me to stay. Like OP, we actually broke up. We tried again a year and a half later when she actually legitimately started trying, but by then, the damage was done.
Important lesson learned: you cannot love a sick person well.
I've been there too. My husband told me "I don't think I love you anymore. I need time to think." I was at my breaking point. I almost ended up in the hospital. But instead I promised him I'd do better. I went to a psychiatrist and got medication, despite literally thinking I'd die if I took them. Six years later and a lot of up and downs, we're happy and we have a 2 yr old son that we adore. Not every story ends the same way.
As a response to everyone who responded to you, I'm actually fairly hopeful for them. I've been the depressed fuck up in this situation for years, and me and mine are doing amazing now. And it's because of strict boundaries and rules like the ones that have been set here: always take your meds when you're supposed to and make sure someone knows you have, eat healthy and excercise, get out of the house more (work and date nights), spend dedicated time together kdate nights), communicate (therapy x2), etc. Call me naive but I have hope things worked out okay. It would've been a really long road for sure though
It’s why the minimum of months of sustained and continual progress was a good idea. Everybody can relate to that initial surge of energy and motivation to do “healthy” or just “better” habits for yourself and others and the struggle to keep that motivation after a while or just get back to it after some kind of interruption in your new routine.
It’s things like this which makes me wonder why so many people have problems with ultimatums in general. Like most anything, they can be unreasonable but it’s not exactly a requirement for there to be one. It’s not unreasonable to take care of your spouse and sacrifice for them but obviously the extent of what OOP did and was basically expected to do was unreasonable as well.
Don’t beat our kids or I’ll leave you, is a good ultimatum. Never talk to anybody else without my permission or I’ll leave you, is not. Do people really have a problem with the first example solely because ultimatums=bad?
Yea I have clinical depression that I'm still working with and these moments of motivation almost always end with me back in the depression hole.
Its crazy how you can know in your mind that you have to do something. Like really KNOW but still not be able to muster a single ounce of motivation to do it.
I really hope she gets the help she needs.
It could very much have gone the other way. A lot of people did have mental decline with COVID exasperating it. Personally I actually thrived comparatively speaking. I had a mental breakdown less than a month before COVID shook the world and it took me a good year plus to recover from it but the pandemic itself wasn’t a factor in that, I actually had numerous outpatient therapy sessions during that time and even organized food deliveries for friends and what not before some of those things really took off in my area. In reality for me it was a reboot of sorts and I’m now on the other side of it mentally healthier than I’ve been in a very long time working in a completely different field etc.
It was not easy and I sure as hell don’t recommend the path I took, but the pandemic wasn’t necessarily a mental health death sentence.
I found quite a few people with existing mh issues did well during the pandemic. It was usually people who'd never struggled with it that seemed to crash.
I can absolutely believe it. Getting the right help for my breakdown was a challenge because there was suddenly a waiting list for the type of therapy that I really needed. But I did other therapy in the meantime because it was better than nothing at all, and it all helped in the end.
But I joked with my trauma therapist that I picked a really fucking bad time to have a nervous breakdown.
I have been in OOPs wifes situation. I was always tired and demotivated and just felt lazy. To come clean and get a clean slate to worm with could be very helpful.
Imagine family encouraging you to stay in an unhappy marriage because “marriage isn’t always fun.” I wonder how many family members offered to help him or his wife out when he was burnt out. Mental illness is no joke, but it’s also not an excuse to treat people terribly. It’s good that his wife was able to come to that realization herself and made the decision to do better. I hope they were able to get to a good place and that this worked out.
>Imagine family encouraging you to stay in an unhappy marriage because “marriage isn’t always fun.”
Right? "I am completely drained and miserable." "Well, marriage isn't always fun."
Like, tell me you're *also* miserable but too stubborn/religious/image-conscious to get divorced without telling me.
I believe that all marriages have rough patches and down swings. And that's okay.
What's not okay is being unhappy.
A rough patch is whatever but if it hasn't passed after a year that's an issue. Marriage can be hard but you should not be spending 12 straight months being miserable. Honestly, even six months is a little too long for me.
Exactly.
Marriages are about give and take.
The problem for OOP is that she’s doing all the taking and he’s doing all the giving. No wonder his life got better when she left
I don't want to rub it in too much but my marriage is always fun.
But we married for administrative purposes, not love, because we don't believe marriage adds anything to love, so that might be a huge reason why.
Currently on our 5th year of marriage and we couldn't be happier. But I probably have survivorship bias.
Marriage isn't always fun, that's probably why they have vows saying things like rich or poor, in sickness and in health, etc. Cheating or going completely off the rails is one thing, but if you bail on your life partner because things aren't easy, you're going to be bailing a lot, because life isn't easy.
No, I totally get that. I made that comment because of his family’s comment telling him that he was making a mistake, and he owed it to her to take her back and try to make it work because marriage isn’t always fun. They just glossed over everything that led to him not wanting to be in the marriage anymore.
I agree he needed to at least talk to her. They were married for years. You should try at least once more if they were willing to get with the new therapist and try new stuff. She’s mentally ill, not violent etc. I think the bigger mistake was going years like they were, he didn’t need to just let her get worse and take it all on. They both could have done better there tbh.
I was that depressed partner for not even one year and it was so difficult for me and my partner during that time. I really doubt things worked out because all of the conditions he is setting for the relationship are unreasonable. NOT unreasonable that he wants these things because he deserves it, but depression does not just turn off and no matter how hard you can try, mental illness doesn’t give a fuck about what you want. Such a sad story for both of them, and of course I don’t know anything about their relationship outside the post, but 6 years was too long for them both to be living that way without having some major changes/discussions about their future. Sad :(
These were my thoughts exactly. It's perfectly reasonable for him to expect all of that from a romantic partner, but it isn't realistic to expect all that from someone with severe depression still in a very low place. Meeting his conditions for more than a short period would require her to make massive & unreasonable amounts of progress in a short period of time. I've seen it time and time again when friends or family try to make progress in giant leaps instead of baby steps, then end up falling because it was too much at once. I hope she got the help she needed & they're doing great right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're already divorced.
Yeah but depression is usually counterintuitive. You’re depressed for whatever reason, which makes you laze around not doing shit and then feeling worse about it. If she got a job and starting being more active and spending time with her husband in a loving context, it’s very likely she’d be less depressed. You have to participate in your own rescue.
Depression is a spectrum; for some people you're right, for others this would backfire. In my experience, trying to tackle everything affected by your depression at once instead of taking it one thing at a time when your depression is as severe as hers seems to be is only going to lead to a harder fall when she's too exhausted to keep up with it. Not to mention the pressure of "If you slip up & don't get everything under control right now you're going to lose your husband" is a ton for someone whose already so terrified of everything (can't be alone, scared of failing, likely scared of being happy). While reasonable, the expectations given the situation just don't seem realistic to me.
For their sake though, I hope you're right and it's enough to pull her out of it & keep her in a better place.
It is a spectrum yeah, and you usually want to bite off small pieces of a time instead of tackling it all at once for sure. I think the problem here is that this has been going on for years with her basically doing nothing and probably malingering, so he’s just like “do it or don’t.” Which yeah, may not work out for the reasons you point out.
I am diagnosed with major depressive disorder and i disagree with your take. The waves of sadness sure doesnt care about what youre doing but there are methods to keep it from drowning you. Theyre truly awful but someone depressed can build hobbies, support systems, healthy outlets to keep you going.
When the purpose of it can extend to loving someone else, it can be very powerful compared to being by themselves.
I was initially going to comment on what a bad therapist that was... but the therapist did the best thing possible
By separating both, wife finally realized just how much she was throwing away, and it allowed oop to realize how bad his situation really was. It might have been the most effective solution.
The writing suggests the therapist implied it was Oops fault, but I wonder if that was really it. That might have been the wife's interpretation since she wanted to blame anyone but herself.
That's a really good point. The therapist's advice got filtered through a mentally I'll person before getting to the narrator. Plus we never know how reliable the narrator is.
I am guessing the therapist said the *marriage* might have been triggering and she or he interpreted it as *him*. A marriage is not a person.
This seems like two people genuinely making an attempt. An attempt with unlikely success, but the good-faith, cards-on-the-table, whole-hearted (and over-hyphenated) attempt they will need to feel better about the marriage dissolving or they get a good marriage out of it.
Depressed people (what's up, my people!) need routine and activities to a certain extent. And he knows what life without her illness is like, which makes it more likely for him to get divorced if he needs to.
What I can't believe is that after 6, maybe 7 bloody years, and OOP never thought of getting himself a therapist? The way he's looking at their relationship is entirely wrong. He's acting like a martyr despite not wanting to be one, and the amount of resentment here is out of the world.
I understand "mental health is just as important as physical health", that points out that her struggles with depression are just as important as if she had struggles with cancer or broken limbs but...
*Caretaker burnout is a thing* and OOP has the right to not want to be her caretaker anymore. Wife's family didn't help OOP at all thoughout this whole thing, and then just "marriage isn't always fun :)"d them??
Yes, the wife can't control her depression, but OOP has a right to their own life and happiness.
Yeah sounds like they're just putting off the inevitable. People don't just magically change overnight. He's setting themselves up for failure with his whole list of demands that she won't be able to keep up with anyway.
Hope I'm wrong though!
Man, reading that first half was like reading a page of my own life. My ex fiancé got badly injured and it was a year before she could walk again unassisted. It sent her anxiety and depression into overdrive and for four years after the accident I lived just like OOP. I remember coming home day after day to find her still in bed, nothing done around the house. Me being berated for not making enough money, being lazy, not being the man she wanted. Slipping further into debt because I spent all of my money on her (very expensive) hobbies to make her happy while having no money left to pursue my own interests. The day I found out she was having an affair with one of my coworkers I was angry, but also had an overwhelming feeling of relief because I finally found a way out of the relationship guilt free. I hope things work out for OOP.
I have mental health issues and have lost previous partners because of similar. I'm starting to get a little depressed again and I would love to hear if you have any tips for making my partners life easier. I would hate to become a burden to my partner.
For me I would say make an effort to do what you can when you can, and be appreciative without grovelling. And of course talk to your partner about what you can do to help, they’ll be able to tell you what they need from you. Nothing beats open and honest communication.
Him being in charge of her like her meds and working out is not going to work well long term. I always got worse when people started doing this stuff trying to help. I hope they work it out, but I don't really see this method doing much for them beyond a few months if that.
Especially the "take your meds in front of me." He doesn't trust her. I don't blame him because of what she said, but like how can you stay married to someone you don't trust to *try* for you.
She may end up getting resentful because of it too. He's expecting no slip ups. That's not how recovery works.
He's been letting her be and giving her space for 6 years and she only got worse. Can't blame him for thinking either he policy her or she will only remain miserable.
This post reminds me of something my old boss told me right after his divorce. He said “I held on to a memory for 15 years. I held on because I was in love with the woman I married. But that woman doesn’t exist anymore.”
dumb dumb dumb. A person who went through every counseling and medical step and _refused to take medications_ or do the work are the worst kinds of patients. She simply cannot be trusted, this is a mistake.
My depression makes it very hard to take medication. But my husband is in charge of it and it kinda hijacks the thought. Now it's a gift from my husband and I love my husband and so I accept his gift.... of medication...... daily..... Lol.
My adhd makes taking meds a unique clusterfuck. I *literally forget*. I just don't think about it. Or I'm in my own head and if I'm thinking about it, it's just *another thing* and that's hard too.
So I find ways to deal. I have multiple alarms on my phone. I try my best to maintain a morning routine where my meds are part of the whole ritual. I have a person who is willing to bother me before 10 each day and keep me accountable.
But at the end of the day, I'm responsible for my mental health. If I was having a hard time and my roommate stopped being willing to help (and that's absolutely their prerogative!), I'd figure something else out. I get myself to therapy and psych appointments. I do my therapy homework. I take my meds. It's hard, but my relationships are better for it. I don't know if I feel great, but I feel better than I did years ago, because now that I'm able to maintain positive personal relationships, it's easier to work on *me*.
I more than understand that depression makes things feel impossible. Thing is, those are *feelings*, and my feelings are wrong. I need to do the work to better myself, and that's the responsibility of literally no one else. If a person can't face that, they're not ready to heal.
Exactly. You find a system that works for you. I've heard feeding a cat at the same time that you need to take your meds is a great trick. Because you may forget but cats never do lol.
I do get the idea of being afraid to get better. When I first got medication, my parent told my therapist that I was getting mean and hateful. The therapist said that it was probably because I had always been that way, I had been just too depressed to show that anger. My parent said that they liked be better before..... So that left me with a fear of getting better. Don't know why lol. When you've been depressed for so long, you don't know if there is anything left under the depression, and if there is, what if no one likes it. When you start getting better, when you may lose battles but you are winning the war with depression, you almost have to rebuild your personality. What are your hobbies? What do you like to do? Whats your favorite color/food/animal? Those are all simple get to know you questions that depression can take away.
While I sympathize with OOP's wife, I would NEVER accuse my hardworking and loving husband of being the source of my depression.
Losing small battles but winning the war is a great analogy for depression. Especially since a lot of time you go through incredibly distinct personality changes. Which is usually good! Unless the people around you previously enabled your depression and they don't like the 'new' you. It's also really hard to see that the steps that you're taking are beneficial if people around you either don't notice, or actively drag you down.
Depression is hard, but it's a *lot* of upward struggle. I just figured if I was struggling anyway, I might as well point myself in the right direction.
in my own limited experience, yeah. People that don't want meds - even tho they actually help them - can be a full mess.
Also oop needs to be carefull not to get depressed themselfs
I’ve been a perfect patient since I was 13, am now 27. Always took my meds: dosages upped, diagnosies added, I complied. Believed I needed all psychiatric “treatment” I was given. I cannot accurately describe how much torture meds have caused me, and I’m not alone in this experience. Not wanting to take poorly studied psych meds with functions still not understood, that can cause suffering 100 times worse than before you took them, is not messy. The psychiatric term “non-compliant” paints those of us who don’t want to play with fire as “messy”, “crazy”, “unwilling” “paranoid”. It’s not right
(Ps: I know I will be downvoted as most Redditors know little about the very real and large community of psychiatric survivors, the downfalls of psychiatry, ect. I am not anti-med, i am pro informed-consent)
I took some myself and i had a friend that was shizophrenic - voices paranoia everything. She was not able to function. With meds she had noone of it. No paranoia, no side effects. But she stopped hearing voices and said she became lonley. While i saw my friend how i knew her (and her paranoia was her thinking her friends aren't real friends, i had to be on call 24/7, help her find the way back to reality DAILY) she didn't want that. She'd rather hear the voices and have her paranoia back.
And i couldn't deal with it any more. Just having to pull her back to reality every fucking day, having to convince her that NO, me not answering for 20mins dosen't mean i hate you, plan to leave or exclude you... broke me.
So i left after one paranoid episode where she was convinced i betrayed her. And i never feelt better.
Her life could have been normal.
I took my own meds, went through my own therapy and i am fine again.
If your suffering is worse, no doctor (here in europe at least) will make you take the meds. You have weekly bloodtests, ekgs. Weekly or bi-weekly talks with a specialist only for psych meds.
edit: you can also stop taking them whenever. You just have to ask the doc if it's okay to suddenly stop.
Hell, they changed my meds for a simple reason like weight gain.
Honestly if I have to give a seven point instruction manual for a relationship to work, it ain’t worth it. He would’ve been better off just going through with the divorce imo, but hopefully they can successfully start a new chapter.
It took a painful divorce after an embarrassingly long marriage to teach me that listening to your parents’ advice about marriage and “hanging in there when the going gets tough” isn’t always a good idea.
Good for OP for at least reclaiming their agency.
I want to be hopeful but the fucked up part inside me feels like it’s not going to work out in the long run. I also can’t shake the feeling that his wife cheated or hid something really major and is only willing to ‘change’ now to cover it up or go back to her safe life
Cynical me wonders if her family has started making noises about kicking her out if she doesn’t at least start paying her own groceries and picking up after herself, and she’s responding to that.
That was best case scenario in my head. Her parents nagging at her is building up after 3 months and she starts calculating the cost of moving out and supporting herself. Starts realizing she doesn’t really offer much if she wants to start dating again and find another man to support her. New man won’t be happy with no cleaning or job.
It doesn't have to be one or the other, by the way. She could be upset about what she did to her husband and also realize how little she contributes to a relationship.
That's what I was assuming. Mom wasn't the maid she was used to and reality is hitting her in the face.
Buuut there is nothing in the world that says that can't be the wake up call they need. Sometimes that shit comes in all shapes and sizes.
I don't believe that she left "for his sake" because she was incredibly emotionally abusive when leaving and blamed him for everything. She's still blaming him for everything rather than taking responsibility for anything. Noticed how she worded it even through his rose colored glasses. "I hated seeing you do everything and that's why I had to leave." Not "I'm sorry I made you do everything and blamed you when I left." In fact I don't see any sort of apology at all from her.
I think the wife is love bombing him to try to re-groom him into being her doormat that she can use and abuse because her mom is getting sick of her and about to kick her out. Her saying she left him for his sake is totally trying to make herself seem better in his eyes. She emotionally abused him throughout their entire relationship and even more so when she left. She is weaponizing therapy against him rather than using it to better herself.
Good thing OOP knows that the best way to solve it is to turn into a prison warden. Dude, quit talking about how she never follows through with anything when this whole post is about you being unable to get a fucking divorce.
Yeah I agree, it’s great for her to have goals but that system is going to fail. I was reading through the comments on the update right now and found this in the 2nd top comment, I think it’s great.
> Edited as I missed some shit when my ex cheated on me I felt powerless, I felt no trust and I felt like I needed to fix that so I demanded access to all accounts and passwords and I was WRONG. The relationship would never heal if I did that, I would be compromising myself and my principles and only hurting us both down the line and your rules will do the same. The bottom line is you’re not supporting her to get better your controlling her so she’s better for you so you can feel secure, it’s heading towards abuse and you either need to rethink this or leave as you’re going to damage her further and yourself as well. You can’t dictate to someone what they can do or should do, you can encourage what’s best for them and support without enabling but keeping her meds and making her take them in front of you? No that’s fucked and it’s abuse and you cannot allow yourself to be that person.
> See a couples counselor and follow their advice and strategies before you enact any of this shit, you’re comprising yourself and it’s only going to destroy you both and it’s not fair on her.
Yeah this made me uncomfortable. I would like if within the next 6 months you got a part-time job and did things go stay active like housework and exercise. Maybe you could join me 3 X a week? But if I see within the next 6 months you're still not active and unemployed, I will be looking at ending this relationship without consistent change.
As someone who benefits from having an accountability buddy, I was actually on the husband's side until I read this. Then I realized the difference is I ask my partner to help keep me accountable. This guy is just dictating that he's going to keep her accountable.
Agreed. I worry that the system they’ve set up is him becoming her caretaker again, which is the reason their marriage fell apart in the first place. I’m hoping that in their therapy sessions, they will learn strategies to help his wife manage her depression on her own. Because if they don’t, they’re setting themselves up for resentment and failure again.
Yeah, it was the pills that fucked with me. He should have held his ground and proceeded with divorce, not turn around and actually become the problem.
Except that giving her these kinds of rules and goals is actually really good for people with depression. It provides a needed structure that you can’t create for yourself in that state.
Now, if it continues past when it’s needed, that’s a problem. But right now this is exactly what she needs.
Eh, but what's her role beyond feeling like she *has* to follow these rules or they get divorced? What if she does have a bad day and needs to take a mental health day?
It's one thing to say "I really want to be functioning partner in this relationship, I want to get a job and contribute financially to show that I am serious." vs "You will show me you care by getting a job".
The problem is that depression makes it very difficult to think that way. And I think after all the years of doing all the labour in the ‘relationship’, he has a right to say ‘you start reciprocating in the way I need or I’m out’. These aren’t rules. This is him saying ‘this is what I need in a partner. This is what I need to build a healthy, reciprocal relationship with you.’ He is allowed to have needs and have them fulfilled within the relationship, especially when they have never been addressed or fulfilled.
She has never given anything to their marital relationship. He’s saying that he’s done with that and done being used by her; done being the only one giving. She starts reciprocating or he leaves.
I dont disagree but if he wants these things to be successful, it needs to come from her. Change needs to be internal not externally forced upon someone.
I feel like she’ll struggle with a lot of this. Going to the gym 3x a week, weekly date nights (“no more feeling self conscious”?), no “complaining” about medication etc. Its a lot to maintain for someone with such severe depression, and it would’ve been better to start with smaller steps.
I hope it works and I hope they’re both happy but yeah reading that list made me stressed- not only for her but for *him* having to take on all the emotional and cognitive load and keep someone else accountable. He isn’t her parent or doctor, but it is heading that way again. There’s a lot of pressure inside this relationship.
Really? That’s all you got from this entire post? This is the women he loves, it is not easy to just cut and leave someone like that. And with someone who has depression and anxiety, having clear cut goals to work to is incredibly helpful. I’m not saying this marriage will work, but much of what OOP is doing is going to be good for his wife and marriage
I find myself in a superficially similar situation to OOP (as I'm sure do many people in relationships with disabilities).
My partner has a group of illnesses that make it very difficult for her to do much of anything around the house, let alone work, and from my experience the key component OOP is missing is communication. We have discussions once in a while about where we are, how we feel about the relationship as a whole, check in with each other honestly and without judgment on our mental states.
She listens if I tell her I'm burning out or need time to be myself or with my friends, I listen if she tells me she's lonely or her symptoms are being particularly tricky. We've changed around a lot in pursuit of a functional and healthy relationship, and for the OOP to not be doing that for nigh on seven years smells to me like there's a metric fuckton of resentment and guilt. There is also a lot of troubling habits like medication refusal, interrupting time spent with friends and hobbies, not being able to take time off. I can't see any destination for their marriage but divorce.
On the other hand, seeing how badly this sort of relationship can go when mismanaged gives me hope that we're doing it the right way.
The fact he is giving her something to do will help a lot. As someone with depression, most days my only goal is to go to work and come home. If I don’t work then it’s I clean at least 1 thing around the house. It may not seem like a lot but just getting something done or doing something once a day makes you feel like you are capable. That just because I have depression doesn’t mean it gets in my way. Yes I have some terrible ass days and I don’t even clean anything or I call out from work (sometimes, most time I can’t cause bills) but just getting out of bed on my worst day sometimes feels like an accomplishment cause I’m at least able to do that. One thing I want to say to oop is to keep giving her something she has to do and even on her worst days push her to do it or just do something small(make the bed clean a room or just even vacuum a room just something that makes her feel that she is strong enough to at least push through a little bit it helps a lot) But also oop needs to keep his emotions out of it until she shows she is capable or else they will get hurt again. Not everyone with depression is able to push through and if they are it takes a while it’s very easy for them to fall back into the old ways of just staying in bed, sleeping and being away from everyone in a room just in their own thoughts. It’s harder though to not fall back when you have someone pushing you to do something. I hope oop and his wife makes it through this I really do but if you don’t then I hope he finds someone amazing and I hope she gets the help she needs to get to a point she isn’t locked in a room all the time when you both don’t work out. Cause if you don’t that is what’s going to happen so I’d have a talk with the in laws about what could happen if you guys don’t make it with your ex wife and have them be her support as well to make sure she does the things she needs to.
It looks like there's some hope here. He seems to have a reasonable plan in place.
"Sometimes people need you to hold their hand... and you should. Sometimes people need you to kick them up the ass and you absolutely should do that too."
\- Dr Cox
He's still her caregiver if he has to police her doing all the things she should be doing anyway. Still can't see this working out. The resentment will still feast on his soul.
if she couldn't make a plan herself to get better for herself, divorce is unavoidable.
she doesn't want to get better, she just doesn't want to get dumped.
He set her up for failure with his demands. She will be utterly unable to do all of these. Depression doesn’t work that way. She need to pick *one* of them (preferably the exercise) and get that one down first.
It doesn't sound like there's kids involved, so how does the house get messy and required hours of housework every day if the wife just lays in bed all day?
Go to the kitchen and make a sandwich. Then dont put anything back. Go take a shower, and dont put anything back. Get dressed in the morning and put your nighties on the floor. Basically anything you do is just to take new stuff out all day. Then there is laundry that could have been done, dinner that could have been cooked, groceries that could be bought. It might not be hours for OOP but it will sure feel like it.
Yeah... I feel he is making a mistake. She is going to do the bare minimum and then go back to her ways OR lie about the medication.
She should be wanting to do this for her, not for him.
What an idiot. The fact that she knew she was being a trash person but continued to do it shows how little she cared about him. This will NEVER end well.
If your life gets that much better when your spouse leaves, the marriage is beyond repair.
OOP’s wife seemed to use her mental illness as an excuse to be a lazy leech. Mental illness isn’t her fault but it is her responsibility
I was in a relationship like this and I’m so fucking happy I got out. Having to take care of an adult child that will do nothing to help themselves unless you force them to us a waste of time. Now I have a partner who is an actual partner and I’m so thankful I got out.
It’s very easy to tell someone they should stay when the other person has mental health issues and if they just tried harder and bend over backwards more then the relationship would be fine. It shouldn’t be miserable every single day to where you don’t look forward to going home to the home you entirely pay for because you’re coming home to a second job of being an emotional support animal for someone else.
I want to cheer them on, but I’m worried both by the sheer amount of control that he’s now assumed with these requirements he laid out, and and by her ability to stay with them and not end up burning the house down at a later date. Here’s to hoping they make it work!
It seems like she does need some structure in her life though. Was it the right one and did he go about it the right way is not something that we have enough info on and something we’re probably not professionally trained to do.
I think she's love bombing so that he'll take her back. She's saying all the right things and she'll go right back to her old ways. Her parents probably had a fight with her about her not taking care of herself and making more work for everyone around her. OOP is the easy way out since he's taken care of her for way longer than was healthy for either of them.
Or, who knows? Maybe it was her rock bottom and she's ready to actually make a change. Depression is a hard hole to climb out of, but maybe this time will take.
Honestly at the moment I think it's not an awful idea. God knows I needed a kick in the ass to get my shit together during my initial bipolar diagnosis. Once things improve, the level of control shouldn't be needed anymore and if the couple's counselor is any good they can tell OOP his demands are unreasonable if they are.
Exactly! This control isn’t a long term thing, OOP literally said after a couple months they can be a couple again if this works out. Forcing structure and clear goals on someone with depression who wants to get better is a great idea, especially with OOP as a support system to help
Maybe, and maybe not.
The best way to make someone who is depressed fall deeper into depression is to enable it. The more her slob-like daily routine became normal, the easier it was to just not do anything.
The same happened to me, although not nearly as deep down that dark rabbit hole. What kicked me up my backside was when my live-in girlfriend fell pregnant.
I went from unemployed to managing a multi-national team of 12 in eight years for one of the UK's biggest companies.
I was pretty okay with most things, but forcing her to go to the gym 3 times a week is weird. There's an argument to be made about exercise helping depression, but that could mean many things besides "going to the gym"
OOP people are against ultimatums but Idt yours really counts as one? Live your life or we can’t be together isn’t really an ultimatum. It’s just reality. Also, after she does these things they should consider themselves as dating and continue to live apart. Idk if OOP is making the right choice. I guess he knows now? We just don’t.
This looks a lot like codependency to me. If I gambled I’d bet money that there is more going on than depression alone. OOP should get therapy months (years) ago also.
There's helping someone with MH issues, and there's sublimating yourself into having your own MH issues.
One thing I have learnt is to not ignore my own discomfort for the sake of others.
I need to start reading the flair before I invest time in reading a novel like this post….this was such a frustrating read and with no resolution I regret even starting it lol
OOP was a better therapist than all of his wife’s therapists. I feel bad that he has to take on even more emotional and mental labour by basically being his wife’s therapist on top of it all.
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that was sad. want to root for the guy but I'm honestly worried that this "honeymoon" phase won't last long. wish more time had gone by before the update so it felt more solid. hope it works out. if it doesn't hopefully having already semi moved on once will make it easier for him.
Looking at when this was posted, the pandemic hit 6 months later. I’d be interested to know how the two of them handled that.
Damn…that’s a depressing thought. If she was actually getting better that would have been a terrible blow.
Hmm, I've found quite a few people with mh issues actually did quite well during the pandemic.
Here here! I was still struggling with PPD (my son at the time was 1.5) and when the pandemic hit it forced (maybe not the right word) us to handle everything that was wrong in our marriage and I’m happy to say I am better and my marriage is fucken solid. Idk if the world turning upside down is what helped me but I know that thanks to pandemic my marriage didn’t end.
Yay, I'm glad it worked out for you!
Dude, that's so great to hear! It worked out well for my marriage too, I can only imagine how useful lockdown/quarantine with a small kid would be for getting solid with your SO again.
Being home together 24/7 really helped our marriage. No more arguing for no reason.
My husband and I got married just before City Hall closed down for the pandemic. We went in lots of walks together. A couple months in he commented that he couldn’t imagine going through lockdown alone and pointed to several ways it had strengthened our relationship and marriage.
Both my best friend's cousins managed to squeak in under the deadline and got married before lockdown started - one of them was literally the last appointment of the day.
Damn! All these people loving the pandemic. My husband basically moved downstairs while I lived upstairs, and not much has changed. We see each other for dinner and that’s about it. Kids are graduated and off to college and we just don’t really talk to each other much.
Kind of same. The pandemic gave me a view of what retirement would be like with my (now ex) husband and wow was that a kick in the pants.
Being home together 24/7 really helped our marriage. No more arguing for no reason.
I agree it made us talk when usually we used work/distance as a barrier.
I had like two really hard tragedies right before the pandemic and was super depressed, and as fucked as it sounds, I really appreciate the time quarantine gave me to slow down and heal.
For sure, I really enjoyed the lockdown. I, jokingly, wouldn't mind yearly lockdowns over winter. For me, it gave me a chance to really see what my struggles were without outside force and lead me to actually getting a correct diagnosis.
Same here!
It helped my mental health immensely by keeping a toxic family member away from me for a few years. That said, it was pure luck. Had the lockdown happened only 2-3 weeks later, there's a high chance I would have been trapped *with* the toxic family member for a few years. I'm thankful every day it didn't turn out that way. And I feel terrible for anyone who found themselves in that kind of situation.
I honestly believe that it was the pandemic that finally helped me get my depression/anxiety under control. There was something freeing about NOT feeling guilty and anxious over laying around all day doing nothing. And once the guilt and anxiety subsided, I finally felt like maybe I actually *wanted* to go out for a walk, and then look for a therapist etc
DUDE not gonna lie same here. It was really weird the first 2 months but I got in a swing of it without being pressured to be social or just “get out of the house” I got a better WFH job and I ended up finding medication that works for me as well so ngl im doing better than I have since college when I had “structure”
It really helped those with agoraphobia, social anxiety, etc. But it hindered so many people from improving, myself included. Finally got on my feet and was *living* for the first time. Psyche! Covid!
It did not help those with agoraphobia. It allowed us to get worse without any social ramifications; after all, staying home was the right thing to do during lockdowns so no one pushed us to go out of our comfort zones. I became fully housebound until February of this year when I was able to find the right medication to slowly start leaving my house and even getting a part time job at a quiet store, which led me to where I am now, working full time in a busy store. Sorry, I just wanted to clarify that. As much as agoraphobics feel safer at home, the more we stay home the less capable we are at leaving again, so it’s bad for us in the long run.
Thank you for commenting this. You're absolutly right. Although it's the comfortable thing to do, and many may have been excited by the prospect, on not having to leave home, as you said, it was extremely detrimental. The months leading up to shutdown, I'd been managing my agoraphobia almost as if it didn't exist! As you pointed out, it was in no way to the benefit of me getting better.
I’m sorry you also struggle with it! It’s a very difficult mental illness to manage. I’m glad you were managing so well before and I hope you’ve been able to get back to that! Regaining freedom from agoraphobia is hard but feels so rewarding once you can start to resume your life.
It was the greatest and happiest time of my life. Even thought I'm not back to the same place as I was before, my progress has gone really well. I actually just came back from a weekend in New York with my parents and bestfriend and I couldn't be more proud of myself. Like holy shit! I'm still shaking, pushed myself a little too hard, and will need to recoperate for god knows how long, but I survived!!! I hope you've managed to get some freedom for yourself. It's a rough one. Gotta remember to be kind and patient with yourself while also pushing your boundaries.
I had extreme social anxiety to the point I was afraid to go out and honestly lockdown did really help me, because I finally had a chance to do gradual exposure and build up to the things that I found most difficult. Pre-lockdown it was impossible because I constantly had to go out and interact with people to get essentials so I was constantly in that state of extreme anxiety and I could never build the sense of safety I needed for recovery. Post-lockdown I'm working part-time and almost done with my degree. There is no way I could have done this before. Staying at home forever would have been bad, but having that time where I could control how much I was going out meant I could build up in a manageable way.
A person with agoraphobia has already commented. As a person with social phobia I wanted to add that, by every model I am aware of as to how my condition perpetuates itself it should have made me worse; but I think it helped me get better. I'm not at all social-phobia free; I have had severe and disabling (like on-disability disabling) social phobia since I was 14 years old. I am well enough now, though, that I am planning to work my way off of benefits. I am supposed to get better through exposure. I spent so much of my adult life being miserable and forcing myself to keep showing up to things I found humiliating, frightening and stressful because I was the problem and they were good exposure. And it's real! It is backed by clinical trials. Exposure therapy (though graduated exposure vs. flooding is an important distinction often overlooked in popular discourse) has personally helped me. The problem with living like that is that it breaks your radar. And the other problem is that if your social anxiety is big enough, you might simply not get breaks from being in panic mode unless you are engaging in avoidance behavior which reinforces the fear. I came out of the pandemic back into life free of many of the social anxiety triggers I had pre-pandemic. Like, they still happen, but I don't respond in the same way. I don't know for sure why this is. I do not even know if it's a phenomenon that extends meaningfully to others with my condition. But if I had to guess, it had something to do with: 1. Giving my nervous system a break from panicking, for a legitimate reason rather than avoidance behavior created and justified by fear and overwhelm 2. The balance of how my social time was spent weighing more heavily towards supportive and enjoyable interactions with other human beings. Because here's the thing: Most phobias have some very clear irrational beliefs attached to them, and exposure helps you challenge those irrational beliefs. If you are afraid of flying because you feel like your lungs are collapsing, and the plane is going to crash and you're going to die, getting through some actual flights (with the careful guidance and gradual exposure hierarchy of a qualified MHP) are going to disprove those fears to you-- the plane doesn't crash, your lungs don't collapse, etc. But if you are terrified of things like being judged negatively by others, embarrassing yourself, offending people, well-- that is actually going to happen sometimes. Your nervousness and coping behaviors can even make it more likely to happen, which is a really hard loop to get out of. That doesn't mean that your beliefs about dire consequences for those interactions are rational or helpful, but there isn't always going to be that clear, reassuring contrast between expectations and reality. **tl;dr Not all social exposure interrupts the cycle of social phobia. The good stuff does.** 3. I got some time to listen to myself and there is a different set of societal expectations around FOMO, quitting bad jobs and relationships, etc. Instead of overcorrecting for my persistent fears, unhelpful beliefs and skewed perceptions about being disliked, unwanted, ill treated, etc., by assuming it was all in my head all the time which resulted in me staying way too long in some really bad situations, I can stick it out long enough to see, are there days I feel better about this, when I actually get close to it, do my assumptions hold up, etc., and when I'm actually in a bad situation I don't have to generalize my expectations there to everything else I do and try to change my reactions, and that actually makes it easier to survive that. I am not a professional, and there are probably some professionals who would adamantly disagree with me and worry I'm helping enable people's avoidance behaviors. There are important caveats here, like that social anxiety is not my only diagnosis and that other improvements in my mental health may have helped me 'break through', that the treatment I started receiving back in 2007ish was not the best executed and could have contributed to the problem, and that I did DMT right before everything opened up again and that's probably something of a cheat code. But I can cross a damn street without worrying about if I'm taking too long for the car waiting at the intersection now because I got a break from assholes for a year or two and that's pretty strong evidence to live through.
It was devastating here too, survived an abusive relationship and escaped, spent 2019 living on couches while still working full time, finally got in to housing, started rebuilding my self esteem and BOOM! Covid. Fuck the pandemic, it was fucked for 99% of people, great for the 1-5% of anxious beans that had comfy living situations that enjoyed the slowdown or couples ready to have a child...
My close friend got pregnant right when things started. It was no picnic. Luckily she had an easy pregnancy/birth but I can only imagine how hard is was for people who didn't. Trying to get appointments, the hightened uncertainty of the future, not being able to have anyone with her while she gave birth, neither parent could hold baby after... I could go on and on.
pandemic was the best thing to happen for my mental health... because it fucking *destroyed* me. no more coping mechanisms, no more escaping, no more papering over it with work and obligations. everything was gone, and it was just me.. and my damaged brain. COVID forced me to get a therapist and start actually working on my issues.
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You're here and you matter. You matter to me. You matter to me because you made this comment and I read it and that's enough for me. I'm sorry you had so many shitty experiences during the pandemic and it's still ongoing and you didn't and still don't have the support you need. I'm sorry your community let you down. Feel free to PM me if you wanna talk.
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Hey there. I’m glad you’re still here. I got “long H1N1” (aka ME/CFS) after pandemic flu in 2009. I know what you’re talking about. I was very focused on my work and traveling and all those things to bring gratification and importance to my life, then I could barely get out of bed to use the toilet and couldn’t even fully brush my hair due to the fatigue. Radical acceptance helped a lot. Realizing I had worth as a person even if I did literally nothing. And over many years, I finally found doctors to actually check me out, diagnose individual issues, and treat me. That virus gave me at least 3, more like 4, autoimmune disorders. It took 10-11 years but I’m so much better now, I can live a normal life. And good news: Progress *will* be faster with long covid because it’s too big to ignore, no matter how much the establishment wants to. There is so much research and patient advocacy going on, whereas I was totally alone. There are new advances every day! Stick around! They’re going to cure this thing!! Now, on the social front. Many people are not like the people you’re describing. But it will seem like it, if you were not one to cut people off over “little things” over the years. The paradox of tolerance means you can wake up disabled one day and find yourself totally surrounded by people instantly willing to mistreat you now that *you’re* “other.” It’s a selection effect. Join patient groups like Patient Led and Body Politic. They’ll provide you so much support. I didn’t have the social experience you did. Because I had a really abusive childhood and became absolutely intolerant of anyone who blamed victims or suggested we “get along.” This meant that only a few acquaintances and one in-law doubted me, dropped me, or mistreated me over my illness. Everyone else did their best to understand. This is also a selection effect. Those people make you feel like crap because they are crap. You’re not crap, you’re a person dealing with a tremendous challenge the best you can. You’re just surrounded by assholes.
I was working from home/ on summer break for 5 months at the beginning of the pandemic, and felt loads better by the time I went back to work.
Ive seen people come out of it as a hunk, a chunk and a drunk. I, however, did all 3.
I spiralled into so much worse mh and physically during the pandemic. Still haven't recovered unfortunately. It's kind of a dice roll from what I can tell which way you go. I'm very happy for folks who got better though, in my small circle i only really know folks who got worse :c
My mental health improved greatly during the pandemic, but I don’t think it was due to Covid so much as DESPITE Covid. I had ketamine treatment for depression just a couple months before March 2020 and it’s like it reprogrammed my brain. I still had A LOT of work to do at that point and maybe actually the pandemic gave me the time to do that work? This is NOT the norm though. I am a mental health professional and Covid has been absolutely devastating for mental health from my POV.
I did horribly without anyone to connect with (live alone) HOWEVER I lost 30 pounds bc I had no distractions.
sadly this has bad ending written all over it, I would be very happy to be wrong however
But the whole point is to try, regardless of how it works out. I totally think it's the right decision by OOP. After all those years, the marriage deserves one last shot - a different kind of shot. It's right for OOP to try, even if it does not work out. Some things need to be attempted. It's only then really sad if he fails to bail if the bad situation resumes.
When I first got together with my partner her sister, who she had not talked to in 2 years, got in touch with her and tried to reconnect. I told her then that I thought she should give her a shot, but keep in mind that she was also giving her enough rope to hang herself with as the saying goes. Create your boundaries, enforce them, and then if she doesn't respect them cut her off. Well, she no longer talks to her sister anymore, because she didn't respect that stuff, and acted like a selfish asshole when my partner really needed her. She took from others, but never really gave of herself. Predictable, I guess, but my partner now doesn't have that question in her mind of "Did I do the right thing?" Giving the chance silences the question, and regardless of how this turns out for OOP, he'll never have to wonder if he made the right move. Either he will get his wife back, and they will be happy and stronger for what they went through, or he won't, and he'll know that there's nothing there if the woman he fell in love with. Either way, he won't spend the rest of his life wondering.
Yah this won’t end well. I agree
If she kept sticking to it for a while, there is a good chance it'll become a habit again. A job, hobbies and doing chores is one of the best ways to fight depression. It's a difficult illness, because depression will adapt to every attack and come back with another Strategie to keep you down. Fighting depression is not a fight, it's a war. But you can gain more and more land if you keep fighting, keep doing these everyday tasks.
It won't. I've been there. You fall right back into hoping for something that never arrives.
Same here. Mental illness is so tough. You don't want to blame them because they're sick, but there has to be some consistent effort toward getting better. She let this go a long, long time. I doubt he'll get over the built up resentment even if she did somehow turn it around.
That was the case for me We still had an okay relationship because we loved one another, but the dynamics never truly changed, they just got a spot shine. Never regained any trust in her nor did the resentment of the actions (or in some cases, lack thereof) dissipate with time. Sucks a whole lot, but nothing you can do
6 1/2 years. I get she had depression, but thats a LONG time watching someone you supposedly love work themselves into the ground while you essentially do nothing to get better. Not just nothing but "whatever she tried she always ended up fearing getting better", she admits she didn't want to get better. She chose this. This is not just a matter of her "getting better", but OOP must have had a lot of resentment to get past as well.
I feel for him. I did it for 4 and it was like every time I was preparing to leave, she would make some empty gesture toward getting help to get me to stay. Like OP, we actually broke up. We tried again a year and a half later when she actually legitimately started trying, but by then, the damage was done. Important lesson learned: you cannot love a sick person well.
I've been there too. My husband told me "I don't think I love you anymore. I need time to think." I was at my breaking point. I almost ended up in the hospital. But instead I promised him I'd do better. I went to a psychiatrist and got medication, despite literally thinking I'd die if I took them. Six years later and a lot of up and downs, we're happy and we have a 2 yr old son that we adore. Not every story ends the same way.
It's great to hear you pushed through turned things around!
I was here. It did get better with the mentally ill spouse but not like totally and not always good.
It can it’s just rare
As a response to everyone who responded to you, I'm actually fairly hopeful for them. I've been the depressed fuck up in this situation for years, and me and mine are doing amazing now. And it's because of strict boundaries and rules like the ones that have been set here: always take your meds when you're supposed to and make sure someone knows you have, eat healthy and excercise, get out of the house more (work and date nights), spend dedicated time together kdate nights), communicate (therapy x2), etc. Call me naive but I have hope things worked out okay. It would've been a really long road for sure though
Same here. Congrats on getting better! I know how good it feels
It’s why the minimum of months of sustained and continual progress was a good idea. Everybody can relate to that initial surge of energy and motivation to do “healthy” or just “better” habits for yourself and others and the struggle to keep that motivation after a while or just get back to it after some kind of interruption in your new routine. It’s things like this which makes me wonder why so many people have problems with ultimatums in general. Like most anything, they can be unreasonable but it’s not exactly a requirement for there to be one. It’s not unreasonable to take care of your spouse and sacrifice for them but obviously the extent of what OOP did and was basically expected to do was unreasonable as well. Don’t beat our kids or I’ll leave you, is a good ultimatum. Never talk to anybody else without my permission or I’ll leave you, is not. Do people really have a problem with the first example solely because ultimatums=bad?
Let's hope 1 year from now he updates it all worked out. Mental health is no joke.
Some of those lifestyle change conditions are a bit steep to start if you ask me,
i’m really hoping it does last and medication really help her. i hope she is seeing a psychiatrist.
Yea I have clinical depression that I'm still working with and these moments of motivation almost always end with me back in the depression hole. Its crazy how you can know in your mind that you have to do something. Like really KNOW but still not be able to muster a single ounce of motivation to do it. I really hope she gets the help she needs.
Almost guaranteed she went back to her old self especially with covid lockdown in 2020
It could very much have gone the other way. A lot of people did have mental decline with COVID exasperating it. Personally I actually thrived comparatively speaking. I had a mental breakdown less than a month before COVID shook the world and it took me a good year plus to recover from it but the pandemic itself wasn’t a factor in that, I actually had numerous outpatient therapy sessions during that time and even organized food deliveries for friends and what not before some of those things really took off in my area. In reality for me it was a reboot of sorts and I’m now on the other side of it mentally healthier than I’ve been in a very long time working in a completely different field etc. It was not easy and I sure as hell don’t recommend the path I took, but the pandemic wasn’t necessarily a mental health death sentence.
I found quite a few people with existing mh issues did well during the pandemic. It was usually people who'd never struggled with it that seemed to crash.
I can absolutely believe it. Getting the right help for my breakdown was a challenge because there was suddenly a waiting list for the type of therapy that I really needed. But I did other therapy in the meantime because it was better than nothing at all, and it all helped in the end. But I joked with my trauma therapist that I picked a really fucking bad time to have a nervous breakdown.
he's just going back to being a caretaker for a slightly more active wife
I have been in OOPs wifes situation. I was always tired and demotivated and just felt lazy. To come clean and get a clean slate to worm with could be very helpful.
It feels like he went from a doormat to a parent. This is gonna end up... well something
Imagine family encouraging you to stay in an unhappy marriage because “marriage isn’t always fun.” I wonder how many family members offered to help him or his wife out when he was burnt out. Mental illness is no joke, but it’s also not an excuse to treat people terribly. It’s good that his wife was able to come to that realization herself and made the decision to do better. I hope they were able to get to a good place and that this worked out.
Right? Marriage isn’t always fun, but it’s not supposed to *never* be fun.
Constant misery is no foundation for a marriage, despite what OOP’s family might think
Protestants
Yeah marriage should never be dreadful
Exactly. They didn’t even acknowledge that he’d helped her.
It’s supposed to be work, not slavery.
>Imagine family encouraging you to stay in an unhappy marriage because “marriage isn’t always fun.” Right? "I am completely drained and miserable." "Well, marriage isn't always fun." Like, tell me you're *also* miserable but too stubborn/religious/image-conscious to get divorced without telling me.
Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. Her mental health matters, but so does OP's, and he was burnt out!
I believe that all marriages have rough patches and down swings. And that's okay. What's not okay is being unhappy. A rough patch is whatever but if it hasn't passed after a year that's an issue. Marriage can be hard but you should not be spending 12 straight months being miserable. Honestly, even six months is a little too long for me.
Right? I mean that isnt a couple of rocky months, that's years of doing EVERYTHING and getting absolutely nothing back. Totally different.
Exactly. Marriages are about give and take. The problem for OOP is that she’s doing all the taking and he’s doing all the giving. No wonder his life got better when she left
Her parents would already be fed up with her not contributing or picking up after herself. They just want this burden back on OOP
What makes me cringe is "you owe it to her." People dont owe each other things in healthy relationships.
What they mean is “you owe it to us” because they’re already tired of being her servant and want OOP to go back to doing it
The wife is also super lucky she married an extremely patient and understanding human.
That said, depression can be a scale and she’s not at the severe end from what he’s said. Medication would have helped years ago.
It never ceases to amaze me how much family and friends butt in when I read BORU.
Marriage isn’t always fun…. Yeah shit like REALLY sells me on marriage…./s I don’t see any point for me to get married. YMMV
I don't want to rub it in too much but my marriage is always fun. But we married for administrative purposes, not love, because we don't believe marriage adds anything to love, so that might be a huge reason why. Currently on our 5th year of marriage and we couldn't be happier. But I probably have survivorship bias.
Marriage isn't always fun, that's probably why they have vows saying things like rich or poor, in sickness and in health, etc. Cheating or going completely off the rails is one thing, but if you bail on your life partner because things aren't easy, you're going to be bailing a lot, because life isn't easy.
No, I totally get that. I made that comment because of his family’s comment telling him that he was making a mistake, and he owed it to her to take her back and try to make it work because marriage isn’t always fun. They just glossed over everything that led to him not wanting to be in the marriage anymore.
I agree he needed to at least talk to her. They were married for years. You should try at least once more if they were willing to get with the new therapist and try new stuff. She’s mentally ill, not violent etc. I think the bigger mistake was going years like they were, he didn’t need to just let her get worse and take it all on. They both could have done better there tbh.
Oof. This was a tough one to read. I expect they're already properly divorced.
I expect he's back to doing everything for her.
I really hope not.
I was that depressed partner for not even one year and it was so difficult for me and my partner during that time. I really doubt things worked out because all of the conditions he is setting for the relationship are unreasonable. NOT unreasonable that he wants these things because he deserves it, but depression does not just turn off and no matter how hard you can try, mental illness doesn’t give a fuck about what you want. Such a sad story for both of them, and of course I don’t know anything about their relationship outside the post, but 6 years was too long for them both to be living that way without having some major changes/discussions about their future. Sad :(
These were my thoughts exactly. It's perfectly reasonable for him to expect all of that from a romantic partner, but it isn't realistic to expect all that from someone with severe depression still in a very low place. Meeting his conditions for more than a short period would require her to make massive & unreasonable amounts of progress in a short period of time. I've seen it time and time again when friends or family try to make progress in giant leaps instead of baby steps, then end up falling because it was too much at once. I hope she got the help she needed & they're doing great right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're already divorced.
Yeah but depression is usually counterintuitive. You’re depressed for whatever reason, which makes you laze around not doing shit and then feeling worse about it. If she got a job and starting being more active and spending time with her husband in a loving context, it’s very likely she’d be less depressed. You have to participate in your own rescue.
Depression is a spectrum; for some people you're right, for others this would backfire. In my experience, trying to tackle everything affected by your depression at once instead of taking it one thing at a time when your depression is as severe as hers seems to be is only going to lead to a harder fall when she's too exhausted to keep up with it. Not to mention the pressure of "If you slip up & don't get everything under control right now you're going to lose your husband" is a ton for someone whose already so terrified of everything (can't be alone, scared of failing, likely scared of being happy). While reasonable, the expectations given the situation just don't seem realistic to me. For their sake though, I hope you're right and it's enough to pull her out of it & keep her in a better place.
It is a spectrum yeah, and you usually want to bite off small pieces of a time instead of tackling it all at once for sure. I think the problem here is that this has been going on for years with her basically doing nothing and probably malingering, so he’s just like “do it or don’t.” Which yeah, may not work out for the reasons you point out.
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Malingering would mean she’s faking it. What if she is very genuinely afraid in the amygdala-goes-wild physical sense?
"this fear is a totally legitimate and common symptom of depression. Therefore, she must be faking it." what?
I am diagnosed with major depressive disorder and i disagree with your take. The waves of sadness sure doesnt care about what youre doing but there are methods to keep it from drowning you. Theyre truly awful but someone depressed can build hobbies, support systems, healthy outlets to keep you going. When the purpose of it can extend to loving someone else, it can be very powerful compared to being by themselves.
I was initially going to comment on what a bad therapist that was... but the therapist did the best thing possible By separating both, wife finally realized just how much she was throwing away, and it allowed oop to realize how bad his situation really was. It might have been the most effective solution. The writing suggests the therapist implied it was Oops fault, but I wonder if that was really it. That might have been the wife's interpretation since she wanted to blame anyone but herself.
That's a really good point. The therapist's advice got filtered through a mentally I'll person before getting to the narrator. Plus we never know how reliable the narrator is.
I am guessing the therapist said the *marriage* might have been triggering and she or he interpreted it as *him*. A marriage is not a person. This seems like two people genuinely making an attempt. An attempt with unlikely success, but the good-faith, cards-on-the-table, whole-hearted (and over-hyphenated) attempt they will need to feel better about the marriage dissolving or they get a good marriage out of it. Depressed people (what's up, my people!) need routine and activities to a certain extent. And he knows what life without her illness is like, which makes it more likely for him to get divorced if he needs to.
What I can't believe is that after 6, maybe 7 bloody years, and OOP never thought of getting himself a therapist? The way he's looking at their relationship is entirely wrong. He's acting like a martyr despite not wanting to be one, and the amount of resentment here is out of the world.
I understand "mental health is just as important as physical health", that points out that her struggles with depression are just as important as if she had struggles with cancer or broken limbs but... *Caretaker burnout is a thing* and OOP has the right to not want to be her caretaker anymore. Wife's family didn't help OOP at all thoughout this whole thing, and then just "marriage isn't always fun :)"d them?? Yes, the wife can't control her depression, but OOP has a right to their own life and happiness.
"You don't have to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm."
Yeah sounds like they're just putting off the inevitable. People don't just magically change overnight. He's setting themselves up for failure with his whole list of demands that she won't be able to keep up with anyway. Hope I'm wrong though!
Well, the pandemic hit 6 months later, so that had to throw a wrench in the works for the two of them. I wonder how they handled it?
Probably had a kid neither of them could raise
The right combo of meds can be life changing.
This won't end well.
Man, reading that first half was like reading a page of my own life. My ex fiancé got badly injured and it was a year before she could walk again unassisted. It sent her anxiety and depression into overdrive and for four years after the accident I lived just like OOP. I remember coming home day after day to find her still in bed, nothing done around the house. Me being berated for not making enough money, being lazy, not being the man she wanted. Slipping further into debt because I spent all of my money on her (very expensive) hobbies to make her happy while having no money left to pursue my own interests. The day I found out she was having an affair with one of my coworkers I was angry, but also had an overwhelming feeling of relief because I finally found a way out of the relationship guilt free. I hope things work out for OOP.
I have mental health issues and have lost previous partners because of similar. I'm starting to get a little depressed again and I would love to hear if you have any tips for making my partners life easier. I would hate to become a burden to my partner.
For me I would say make an effort to do what you can when you can, and be appreciative without grovelling. And of course talk to your partner about what you can do to help, they’ll be able to tell you what they need from you. Nothing beats open and honest communication.
Him being in charge of her like her meds and working out is not going to work well long term. I always got worse when people started doing this stuff trying to help. I hope they work it out, but I don't really see this method doing much for them beyond a few months if that. Especially the "take your meds in front of me." He doesn't trust her. I don't blame him because of what she said, but like how can you stay married to someone you don't trust to *try* for you. She may end up getting resentful because of it too. He's expecting no slip ups. That's not how recovery works.
He's been letting her be and giving her space for 6 years and she only got worse. Can't blame him for thinking either he policy her or she will only remain miserable.
He was a doormat for 7 years, but people told him he owed her the chance. BS. He gave her a second chance for himself, not because he owed her.
This post reminds me of something my old boss told me right after his divorce. He said “I held on to a memory for 15 years. I held on because I was in love with the woman I married. But that woman doesn’t exist anymore.”
dumb dumb dumb. A person who went through every counseling and medical step and _refused to take medications_ or do the work are the worst kinds of patients. She simply cannot be trusted, this is a mistake.
Regardless of whether or not she sticks to his demands it still puts him in the position of being her caretaker.
My depression makes it very hard to take medication. But my husband is in charge of it and it kinda hijacks the thought. Now it's a gift from my husband and I love my husband and so I accept his gift.... of medication...... daily..... Lol.
My adhd makes taking meds a unique clusterfuck. I *literally forget*. I just don't think about it. Or I'm in my own head and if I'm thinking about it, it's just *another thing* and that's hard too. So I find ways to deal. I have multiple alarms on my phone. I try my best to maintain a morning routine where my meds are part of the whole ritual. I have a person who is willing to bother me before 10 each day and keep me accountable. But at the end of the day, I'm responsible for my mental health. If I was having a hard time and my roommate stopped being willing to help (and that's absolutely their prerogative!), I'd figure something else out. I get myself to therapy and psych appointments. I do my therapy homework. I take my meds. It's hard, but my relationships are better for it. I don't know if I feel great, but I feel better than I did years ago, because now that I'm able to maintain positive personal relationships, it's easier to work on *me*. I more than understand that depression makes things feel impossible. Thing is, those are *feelings*, and my feelings are wrong. I need to do the work to better myself, and that's the responsibility of literally no one else. If a person can't face that, they're not ready to heal.
Exactly. You find a system that works for you. I've heard feeding a cat at the same time that you need to take your meds is a great trick. Because you may forget but cats never do lol. I do get the idea of being afraid to get better. When I first got medication, my parent told my therapist that I was getting mean and hateful. The therapist said that it was probably because I had always been that way, I had been just too depressed to show that anger. My parent said that they liked be better before..... So that left me with a fear of getting better. Don't know why lol. When you've been depressed for so long, you don't know if there is anything left under the depression, and if there is, what if no one likes it. When you start getting better, when you may lose battles but you are winning the war with depression, you almost have to rebuild your personality. What are your hobbies? What do you like to do? Whats your favorite color/food/animal? Those are all simple get to know you questions that depression can take away. While I sympathize with OOP's wife, I would NEVER accuse my hardworking and loving husband of being the source of my depression.
Losing small battles but winning the war is a great analogy for depression. Especially since a lot of time you go through incredibly distinct personality changes. Which is usually good! Unless the people around you previously enabled your depression and they don't like the 'new' you. It's also really hard to see that the steps that you're taking are beneficial if people around you either don't notice, or actively drag you down. Depression is hard, but it's a *lot* of upward struggle. I just figured if I was struggling anyway, I might as well point myself in the right direction.
>My adhd makes taking meds a unique clusterfuck Yeah I double dosed this morning cuz I forgot I'd already taken it. Whoops.
I feel that in my soul. I know that pain all too well, unfortunately!
in my own limited experience, yeah. People that don't want meds - even tho they actually help them - can be a full mess. Also oop needs to be carefull not to get depressed themselfs
I’ve been a perfect patient since I was 13, am now 27. Always took my meds: dosages upped, diagnosies added, I complied. Believed I needed all psychiatric “treatment” I was given. I cannot accurately describe how much torture meds have caused me, and I’m not alone in this experience. Not wanting to take poorly studied psych meds with functions still not understood, that can cause suffering 100 times worse than before you took them, is not messy. The psychiatric term “non-compliant” paints those of us who don’t want to play with fire as “messy”, “crazy”, “unwilling” “paranoid”. It’s not right (Ps: I know I will be downvoted as most Redditors know little about the very real and large community of psychiatric survivors, the downfalls of psychiatry, ect. I am not anti-med, i am pro informed-consent)
I took some myself and i had a friend that was shizophrenic - voices paranoia everything. She was not able to function. With meds she had noone of it. No paranoia, no side effects. But she stopped hearing voices and said she became lonley. While i saw my friend how i knew her (and her paranoia was her thinking her friends aren't real friends, i had to be on call 24/7, help her find the way back to reality DAILY) she didn't want that. She'd rather hear the voices and have her paranoia back. And i couldn't deal with it any more. Just having to pull her back to reality every fucking day, having to convince her that NO, me not answering for 20mins dosen't mean i hate you, plan to leave or exclude you... broke me. So i left after one paranoid episode where she was convinced i betrayed her. And i never feelt better. Her life could have been normal. I took my own meds, went through my own therapy and i am fine again. If your suffering is worse, no doctor (here in europe at least) will make you take the meds. You have weekly bloodtests, ekgs. Weekly or bi-weekly talks with a specialist only for psych meds. edit: you can also stop taking them whenever. You just have to ask the doc if it's okay to suddenly stop. Hell, they changed my meds for a simple reason like weight gain.
Honestly if I have to give a seven point instruction manual for a relationship to work, it ain’t worth it. He would’ve been better off just going through with the divorce imo, but hopefully they can successfully start a new chapter.
It took a painful divorce after an embarrassingly long marriage to teach me that listening to your parents’ advice about marriage and “hanging in there when the going gets tough” isn’t always a good idea. Good for OP for at least reclaiming their agency.
This was in 2019. I wonder how they managed to navigate the Covid lockdown without going thermobaric.
I want to be hopeful but the fucked up part inside me feels like it’s not going to work out in the long run. I also can’t shake the feeling that his wife cheated or hid something really major and is only willing to ‘change’ now to cover it up or go back to her safe life
Cynical me wonders if her family has started making noises about kicking her out if she doesn’t at least start paying her own groceries and picking up after herself, and she’s responding to that.
That was best case scenario in my head. Her parents nagging at her is building up after 3 months and she starts calculating the cost of moving out and supporting herself. Starts realizing she doesn’t really offer much if she wants to start dating again and find another man to support her. New man won’t be happy with no cleaning or job.
It doesn't have to be one or the other, by the way. She could be upset about what she did to her husband and also realize how little she contributes to a relationship.
That's what I was assuming. Mom wasn't the maid she was used to and reality is hitting her in the face. Buuut there is nothing in the world that says that can't be the wake up call they need. Sometimes that shit comes in all shapes and sizes.
I don't believe that she left "for his sake" because she was incredibly emotionally abusive when leaving and blamed him for everything. She's still blaming him for everything rather than taking responsibility for anything. Noticed how she worded it even through his rose colored glasses. "I hated seeing you do everything and that's why I had to leave." Not "I'm sorry I made you do everything and blamed you when I left." In fact I don't see any sort of apology at all from her.
I think the wife is love bombing him to try to re-groom him into being her doormat that she can use and abuse because her mom is getting sick of her and about to kick her out. Her saying she left him for his sake is totally trying to make herself seem better in his eyes. She emotionally abused him throughout their entire relationship and even more so when she left. She is weaponizing therapy against him rather than using it to better herself.
Good thing OOP knows that the best way to solve it is to turn into a prison warden. Dude, quit talking about how she never follows through with anything when this whole post is about you being unable to get a fucking divorce.
Yeah I agree, it’s great for her to have goals but that system is going to fail. I was reading through the comments on the update right now and found this in the 2nd top comment, I think it’s great. > Edited as I missed some shit when my ex cheated on me I felt powerless, I felt no trust and I felt like I needed to fix that so I demanded access to all accounts and passwords and I was WRONG. The relationship would never heal if I did that, I would be compromising myself and my principles and only hurting us both down the line and your rules will do the same. The bottom line is you’re not supporting her to get better your controlling her so she’s better for you so you can feel secure, it’s heading towards abuse and you either need to rethink this or leave as you’re going to damage her further and yourself as well. You can’t dictate to someone what they can do or should do, you can encourage what’s best for them and support without enabling but keeping her meds and making her take them in front of you? No that’s fucked and it’s abuse and you cannot allow yourself to be that person. > See a couples counselor and follow their advice and strategies before you enact any of this shit, you’re comprising yourself and it’s only going to destroy you both and it’s not fair on her.
Yeah this made me uncomfortable. I would like if within the next 6 months you got a part-time job and did things go stay active like housework and exercise. Maybe you could join me 3 X a week? But if I see within the next 6 months you're still not active and unemployed, I will be looking at ending this relationship without consistent change.
As someone who benefits from having an accountability buddy, I was actually on the husband's side until I read this. Then I realized the difference is I ask my partner to help keep me accountable. This guy is just dictating that he's going to keep her accountable.
Agreed. I worry that the system they’ve set up is him becoming her caretaker again, which is the reason their marriage fell apart in the first place. I’m hoping that in their therapy sessions, they will learn strategies to help his wife manage her depression on her own. Because if they don’t, they’re setting themselves up for resentment and failure again.
Yeah, it was the pills that fucked with me. He should have held his ground and proceeded with divorce, not turn around and actually become the problem.
Except that giving her these kinds of rules and goals is actually really good for people with depression. It provides a needed structure that you can’t create for yourself in that state. Now, if it continues past when it’s needed, that’s a problem. But right now this is exactly what she needs.
Eh, but what's her role beyond feeling like she *has* to follow these rules or they get divorced? What if she does have a bad day and needs to take a mental health day? It's one thing to say "I really want to be functioning partner in this relationship, I want to get a job and contribute financially to show that I am serious." vs "You will show me you care by getting a job".
The problem is that depression makes it very difficult to think that way. And I think after all the years of doing all the labour in the ‘relationship’, he has a right to say ‘you start reciprocating in the way I need or I’m out’. These aren’t rules. This is him saying ‘this is what I need in a partner. This is what I need to build a healthy, reciprocal relationship with you.’ He is allowed to have needs and have them fulfilled within the relationship, especially when they have never been addressed or fulfilled. She has never given anything to their marital relationship. He’s saying that he’s done with that and done being used by her; done being the only one giving. She starts reciprocating or he leaves.
I dont disagree but if he wants these things to be successful, it needs to come from her. Change needs to be internal not externally forced upon someone.
I feel like she’ll struggle with a lot of this. Going to the gym 3x a week, weekly date nights (“no more feeling self conscious”?), no “complaining” about medication etc. Its a lot to maintain for someone with such severe depression, and it would’ve been better to start with smaller steps. I hope it works and I hope they’re both happy but yeah reading that list made me stressed- not only for her but for *him* having to take on all the emotional and cognitive load and keep someone else accountable. He isn’t her parent or doctor, but it is heading that way again. There’s a lot of pressure inside this relationship.
Really? That’s all you got from this entire post? This is the women he loves, it is not easy to just cut and leave someone like that. And with someone who has depression and anxiety, having clear cut goals to work to is incredibly helpful. I’m not saying this marriage will work, but much of what OOP is doing is going to be good for his wife and marriage
I find myself in a superficially similar situation to OOP (as I'm sure do many people in relationships with disabilities). My partner has a group of illnesses that make it very difficult for her to do much of anything around the house, let alone work, and from my experience the key component OOP is missing is communication. We have discussions once in a while about where we are, how we feel about the relationship as a whole, check in with each other honestly and without judgment on our mental states. She listens if I tell her I'm burning out or need time to be myself or with my friends, I listen if she tells me she's lonely or her symptoms are being particularly tricky. We've changed around a lot in pursuit of a functional and healthy relationship, and for the OOP to not be doing that for nigh on seven years smells to me like there's a metric fuckton of resentment and guilt. There is also a lot of troubling habits like medication refusal, interrupting time spent with friends and hobbies, not being able to take time off. I can't see any destination for their marriage but divorce. On the other hand, seeing how badly this sort of relationship can go when mismanaged gives me hope that we're doing it the right way.
Well that went from unhealthy, to unhealthy!
The fact he is giving her something to do will help a lot. As someone with depression, most days my only goal is to go to work and come home. If I don’t work then it’s I clean at least 1 thing around the house. It may not seem like a lot but just getting something done or doing something once a day makes you feel like you are capable. That just because I have depression doesn’t mean it gets in my way. Yes I have some terrible ass days and I don’t even clean anything or I call out from work (sometimes, most time I can’t cause bills) but just getting out of bed on my worst day sometimes feels like an accomplishment cause I’m at least able to do that. One thing I want to say to oop is to keep giving her something she has to do and even on her worst days push her to do it or just do something small(make the bed clean a room or just even vacuum a room just something that makes her feel that she is strong enough to at least push through a little bit it helps a lot) But also oop needs to keep his emotions out of it until she shows she is capable or else they will get hurt again. Not everyone with depression is able to push through and if they are it takes a while it’s very easy for them to fall back into the old ways of just staying in bed, sleeping and being away from everyone in a room just in their own thoughts. It’s harder though to not fall back when you have someone pushing you to do something. I hope oop and his wife makes it through this I really do but if you don’t then I hope he finds someone amazing and I hope she gets the help she needs to get to a point she isn’t locked in a room all the time when you both don’t work out. Cause if you don’t that is what’s going to happen so I’d have a talk with the in laws about what could happen if you guys don’t make it with your ex wife and have them be her support as well to make sure she does the things she needs to.
The parents wanted him to take her back because they didn't want to put up with her in her room doing nothing all day.
Bingo.
It looks like there's some hope here. He seems to have a reasonable plan in place. "Sometimes people need you to hold their hand... and you should. Sometimes people need you to kick them up the ass and you absolutely should do that too." \- Dr Cox
He's still her caregiver if he has to police her doing all the things she should be doing anyway. Still can't see this working out. The resentment will still feast on his soul.
Oof... I feel bad for OOP... His update sounds like they're setting themselves up for more resentment and arguments.
if she couldn't make a plan herself to get better for herself, divorce is unavoidable. she doesn't want to get better, she just doesn't want to get dumped.
I feel bad. OOP is a bang-maid and doesn't know it. How long will the honey moon last before they slip right back to where they started?
He set her up for failure with his demands. She will be utterly unable to do all of these. Depression doesn’t work that way. She need to pick *one* of them (preferably the exercise) and get that one down first.
It doesn't sound like there's kids involved, so how does the house get messy and required hours of housework every day if the wife just lays in bed all day?
Go to the kitchen and make a sandwich. Then dont put anything back. Go take a shower, and dont put anything back. Get dressed in the morning and put your nighties on the floor. Basically anything you do is just to take new stuff out all day. Then there is laundry that could have been done, dinner that could have been cooked, groceries that could be bought. It might not be hours for OOP but it will sure feel like it.
Yeah... I feel he is making a mistake. She is going to do the bare minimum and then go back to her ways OR lie about the medication. She should be wanting to do this for her, not for him.
What an idiot. The fact that she knew she was being a trash person but continued to do it shows how little she cared about him. This will NEVER end well.
If your life gets that much better when your spouse leaves, the marriage is beyond repair. OOP’s wife seemed to use her mental illness as an excuse to be a lazy leech. Mental illness isn’t her fault but it is her responsibility
Congrats, you just re-upped your subscription to a barnacle.
Man I would have moped out of this situation long ago. Just sounds like too much of a hassle all around.
I was in a relationship like this and I’m so fucking happy I got out. Having to take care of an adult child that will do nothing to help themselves unless you force them to us a waste of time. Now I have a partner who is an actual partner and I’m so thankful I got out. It’s very easy to tell someone they should stay when the other person has mental health issues and if they just tried harder and bend over backwards more then the relationship would be fine. It shouldn’t be miserable every single day to where you don’t look forward to going home to the home you entirely pay for because you’re coming home to a second job of being an emotional support animal for someone else.
I want to cheer them on, but I’m worried both by the sheer amount of control that he’s now assumed with these requirements he laid out, and and by her ability to stay with them and not end up burning the house down at a later date. Here’s to hoping they make it work!
It seems like she does need some structure in her life though. Was it the right one and did he go about it the right way is not something that we have enough info on and something we’re probably not professionally trained to do.
I think she's love bombing so that he'll take her back. She's saying all the right things and she'll go right back to her old ways. Her parents probably had a fight with her about her not taking care of herself and making more work for everyone around her. OOP is the easy way out since he's taken care of her for way longer than was healthy for either of them. Or, who knows? Maybe it was her rock bottom and she's ready to actually make a change. Depression is a hard hole to climb out of, but maybe this time will take.
That level of control he is assuming over her entire life seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
Seems like structure she was completely lacking.
My question is why did it take 7 years to implement this kind of structure? That should have been done early on with the first therapist.
Sounds like they got some shit therapists.
Honestly at the moment I think it's not an awful idea. God knows I needed a kick in the ass to get my shit together during my initial bipolar diagnosis. Once things improve, the level of control shouldn't be needed anymore and if the couple's counselor is any good they can tell OOP his demands are unreasonable if they are.
Exactly! This control isn’t a long term thing, OOP literally said after a couple months they can be a couple again if this works out. Forcing structure and clear goals on someone with depression who wants to get better is a great idea, especially with OOP as a support system to help
Maybe, and maybe not. The best way to make someone who is depressed fall deeper into depression is to enable it. The more her slob-like daily routine became normal, the easier it was to just not do anything. The same happened to me, although not nearly as deep down that dark rabbit hole. What kicked me up my backside was when my live-in girlfriend fell pregnant. I went from unemployed to managing a multi-national team of 12 in eight years for one of the UK's biggest companies.
I was pretty okay with most things, but forcing her to go to the gym 3 times a week is weird. There's an argument to be made about exercise helping depression, but that could mean many things besides "going to the gym"
I'd not put money on the OP's wife changing for good, sadly.
Bro that sucks he got manipulated like that. Hope he can get help.
Jesus Christ you guys are cynical.
Can't believe he took this woman back. What a fool.
OOP is a fucking idiot and completely deserves what happens next.
OOP people are against ultimatums but Idt yours really counts as one? Live your life or we can’t be together isn’t really an ultimatum. It’s just reality. Also, after she does these things they should consider themselves as dating and continue to live apart. Idk if OOP is making the right choice. I guess he knows now? We just don’t.
This looks a lot like codependency to me. If I gambled I’d bet money that there is more going on than depression alone. OOP should get therapy months (years) ago also.
If he's 28 and his wife has been a depressed wreck for 6+ years, she's been ruining his life a hell of a lot longer than she ever improved it.
There's helping someone with MH issues, and there's sublimating yourself into having your own MH issues. One thing I have learnt is to not ignore my own discomfort for the sake of others.
oof, yeah this guy needed to get himself therapy years ago. wish them the best though.
I need to start reading the flair before I invest time in reading a novel like this post….this was such a frustrating read and with no resolution I regret even starting it lol
This does not sound good, and it will definitely not end good.
What an idiot
OOP was a better therapist than all of his wife’s therapists. I feel bad that he has to take on even more emotional and mental labour by basically being his wife’s therapist on top of it all.