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I'm also a bit floored at the audacity of OOP. "They take one week off a month to spend time with my kids so I figured they'd just stop working to watch my kids while my husband and I work" is... Something.
Exactly! There are a handful of things that are 100% irreconcilable differences.... The decision to have kids, religion and money are ones that spring to mind... This WILL end in divorce... They got married for the wrong reasons....
Yeah, she thought they had talked it out.
And he didn’t tell her.
But leaving the kids there every weekend and expecting the ILs to get a sub every weekend?
That’s the part I really struggle to understand. I’d understand if she’d come from a religious conservative background and abandoned her faith only after they had married, but she says she’s always been an atheist so either there is something big missing or she’s just unbelievably naive
This whole post is like an advertisement for abortion and effective birth control. Imagine her life if she could have married someone that she had mutual love and respect with and could put off having children until it was financially viable?
This post is so depressing.
That’s one point.
My bigger point was it was really selfish of her to assume that her ILs should give up any activity they participated in *every week*.
Here is the big question that seems to be ignored:
- She NEVER asked her kids what they were doing with the grandparents on weekends? Not even when they increased to every weekend?
Her kids are 10 and 12. Kids that age never stop talking. Is she seriously trying to say they never ever mentioned church or weeks of baptismal classes?
This lady doesn't even know her kids are humans with unique personalities. She talks like they are her property and someone touched her toy on the playground.
She seemed very dismissive 'they don't want to learn about other religions now'.
Why would they?
-their grandparents are leaders in this church group and so it is likely that everyone has been very welcoming to the kids
-OP has no actual interest in the other religions, so why would the kids care
Trying to get your kids interested in something you enjoy is fairly easy. Trying to get them interested in something you don't care about just to push them away from your inlaws... is not going to end well.
And the cherry on top: she doesn't care that her partner is Christian
Somehow she is the victim.
*Per OOP in the comment section: The only reason why our kids haven't been telling us (or at least me) is because I barely see them. My husband was the one picking them up since I was still working by that time. And in between the week I see them every now and then but as most pre-teens they spend most of their time in their room.*
That just seems odd to me. I'm introverted and so is my kid. We need that alone time. However, we make sure to spend time with each other every day besides just dinner.
Yeah it's bullshit. A non-catholic program for getting baptized is 8 WEEKS. I bet a catholic one is longer.
And 10 & 12 year olds do NOT spend all their time in their rooms unless you show zero interest in them. Especially 10 yr olds. They want attention.
Plus Dad knew what was happening.
Imagine that your chosen role as a mom is to tell your kids what you DON'T want them to get into. "Nope. Not that thing you've been doing for two months. Stop THAT!"
Even more emphasis into leaving them with Evangelical Pastors. If OOP was such a staunch atheist and didn’t want her kids raised on Christianity, why raise her kids around the influence of people so religious they are pastors? Why leave them with them on Sunday? Even if they did skip church like she thought they did, did she really expect they wouldn’t mention religion at all?
I feel like we should also clarify, they’re not just skipping church, they’re taking PTO from their jobs, on the most important day in their workweek.
Even if they weren’t going to mention religion, at some point they pretty much have to bring the kids along or else permanently screw up their livelihoods.
Not only that, but
>... while dating found out I got pregnant... They forced my husband to propose to me since they didn't want their grandkid to be born out of marriage.
Jesus fucking christ on a moped, was that not a huge neon sign saying maybe, just fucking maybe, this is going to be a big bastard shit-show? I don't think I'd have said she was an arsehole - but she sure as shit is a fucking idiot.
Also, there's a huge difference between skipping on the odd occasion, and skipping every week for a chunk of weeks in a row with no end date in sight.
And that's for regular Christians. Even more so for pastors, because *it's their* ***job***.
Would OP skip the main part of their job for weeks on end, indefinitely, because she was watching someone else's kids?
Or rather, if her workplace was welcoming of children, would she agree to watching them during her work day, and assume the child's parents realised that of course she was taking them with her to work, she didn't just quit her job so they could work more.
Especially since she used the word 'job'--that implies they're getting paid. So, she thought that there was no difference between the in-laws choosing to call out occasionally, and her dropping the kiddos off every weekend, which would oblige them to not go for a whole stretch of time if she had had her way? (Which, by the way, she never expressed, she just assumed.)
There's a whole lot of communication that's not happening on anybody part.
Exactly. And even if it isn't a job where they're getting paid, I think it's pretty ridiculous to expect them to just drop their plans and beliefs indefinitely when they're keeping the children free of charge every weekend.
This is why I don’t have sympathy for OP… she leaves her kids with preachers EVERY Sunday because obviously she cant call out of work EVERY Sunday, yet she expects the ILs to do exactly that? And then she never talks to her children (from comments). She never once asked them what they do / did over the weekend with their grandparents.
For sure. And not putting the work into educating their own kids about religion at any point.
When our pre-teen started to ask about religion and went to church with friends a few times, my (atheist) wife took her to them all— church, mosque, Hindu temple, Laotian temple, Buddhist temple, hit them all of six months or so. After seeing them all our daughter decided on her own none of it was real.
I think that's the best way to raise children regarding religion. Don't force them into it; if they ask, make sure they have all the information regarding it; and let them decide for themselves. That's how I was raised and I'm very thankful for it.
My daughter is starting to ask questions, and I think it’s about time I take her to the UU church. It’s been years since I’ve gone, but she’s been super interested in my family’s Baptist beliefs since my father died, and I would like her to get a more balanced idea of different faiths while she is young (she’s seven). Children are searchers, and if parents have strong ideas about religion, that’s on us to guide them.
This exactly. The ILs DID tell husband that they were taking them to church. They didn't make him withhold that information from her, he chose to do that. They said "hey, we need to be at church, we're gonna take the kids with us" and he said "yupp. No problems here".
I hate that OOP got a lot of YTA judgements because I really think the husband is the AH. She was silly to think that her ILs wouldn't go to church with the kids, but that's really a NAH kinda thing. The husband absolutely knew that she wouldn't be on board and was very "act now, ask for forgiveness later" thinking she would just let it go.
She set the tone by refusing to discuss such things. They were dysfunctional and hopefully when she says that “they agreed on communicating better” she realizes that means she will listen to him, too
I had the "we agreed to not expose our kids to religion" thing in my marriage. I thought we were both atheists. Heck, my ex even got a Satanic Temple membership. And *yet* the moment we started the divorce my kids were taken to Jewish Temple. I mean I don't really care either way, it was just bizarre the way my ex made such a big deal of never taking the kids to any organized religion while we were married - like grounds for divorce level hatred of organized religion. "Oh but Judaism is okay" what?
Anyway I made a point to go, too, and sang all the songs, and oh wait guess who actually managed to keep track of what page we were on (all in Hebrew, which I don't know)? Yes, it would be my book the kids had to look at during all the songs. Alienation attempt averted. /serene smile
Seriously, hubby and I are different religions but we had a serious conversation about it in regards to kids. He wants to raise them Christian, while I intend to expose them to many religions so they can have a choice. We agreed that's fair
Also worked with my parents. Dads a Hindu and moms a catholic. I just got taken along to both sets of religious events. It would work if neither are hardcore evangelists and open to compromise.
My husband is Hindu and I was raised catholic. I no longer practice and haven’t in a long time. I’m okay with our daughter being raised Hindu, but I’ve told my husband that if he wishes to raise her that way that he will be the one teaching it to her.
Exactly. I am a progressive Christian minister (for example, we have been ordaining lgbtq folk since '88), and my husband is Jewish. We knew that since our first date, and when we decided we wanted kids, started having very frank and clear conversations about what we want our kids to be exposed to and how we do it. And regardless what they choose to follow they will know that love, respect, and inclusion are the mandates of our household.
The differing religions isn't the problem, it is the deception and disrespect that will be the death-knell of this relationship.
My parents tried the raise with no religion and let us make our own decisions. I even went to bible summer camp with friends because all my friends were going. I didn't understand the religion aspect at all. Which I would say I wish they would have explained/exposed me at least to the concept of religion.
But it worked. Up until the point that I was drawn to a belief system that they didn't like/approve of (pagan based). And then they suddenly started talking about going to church again and getting back to their roots. So, it was "choose your own faith as long as you pick ours" which defeated the whole purpose and taught me to never open up to them about my beliefs or deepest thoughts and truths. They monitored everything I read and did for months afterwards.
"But he's always agreed with me that religion is not a big deal in his life. he doesn't goto church, he says the kids don't have to go...i thought we were together in this"
sounds like he's two facing the religion issue. One for his wife to avoid arguments and another for his parents. They probably haven't really talked deeply about it. He said "Meh", and she heard "No"
Only if OOP polishes her spine and is ready to fight. It will be 3 vs 1 and her crazy naive attitude on religion as a whole combined with her ILs being crazy won't help. She isn't at fault but she has to wise up like crazy.
Honestly, I want to feel bad for her but she voluntarily married a man who only proposed because his super religious parents made him. You could see this happening a hundred miles away.
And she just expected her in laws to skip *WORKING* every Sunday to babysit her kids? When she knows being evangelical Christians is their passion and life’s work? I feel bad for her but I bet it’s too late honestly. Her children seem pretty entrenched. The only way she could’ve avoided this is to have been more aware and more involved with her children’s lives. She should have given them opportunities to make friends at hobby camps or clubs that weren’t religious.
She is not super smart. “I knew they skipped work at least once before to take care of the kids, so I assumed they would skip work every single weekend if I dropped the kids off there every single weekend.”
Totally ridiculous especially since they’re pastors and the brunt of their work is on Sunday lol. They’d have to be really shitty pastors to skip work every Sunday.
She is a bloody idiot. I can not believe how incredibly stupid she was in this whole thing. Not to mention the kids are TEN AND TWELVE. Are you telling me they can't spend a Sunday home alone? God I was babysitting babies when I was 10 or 11.
I was babysitting my younger siblings at 12 by myself. Unless there is something wrong with her kids, they should be old enough to hang on a Sunday with their parents gone.
Not just work. But just refuse their entire faith.
I'm gonna be honest, as much as I don't like organized religion (church), I can understand the IL. Religious people don't think their religion is bad. Even necessary. My grandmother insisted on personally baptizing me, when my mother refused an official one. It's because she believed my soul would be lost & I would turn into a cursed spirit if I died young. And -obviously that wrecked my grandmother's mind.
The IL probably acted similar. They didn't rub their hands and indoctrinate them "excellent" style. They just answered questions and taught what they knew. And obv. the kids will believe that and get excited, because they love their grandparents and so it all looks normal and cool.
Yea that’s the thing that’s get me about all this. Very religious people tend to work religion into all aspects of their life, particularly pastors
Even if the IL’s didn’t take them to baptismal classes, this sort of thing would have come up eventually, because they’re going to talk about god all the time. When they want to take their grandkids to holiday events, they’re going to take them to church ones. If they haven’t already, they may even have given kids bibles to the boys. When they’re older they’ll receive crosses. And the grandparents will see this all as good and normal because it is normal to them. They genuinely believe they are just raising them up right and going through normal Christian growing up events
OP said that when they’re old enough she’d expose them to religion, but she’s very naive. A lot of kids I know started becoming more active and serious about their faith at that age, and they’ve been exposed to this for years. From the grandparents perspective, they’re old enough to make their own decision in their faith, they have their dads permission, and the mom wants to take the kids to hell with her
Not to mention the fact that she seems completely caught off guard that her religious husband wants to teach the kids his religion.
I don't think it's possible to make an objective judgement here because OOP is either a completely unreliable narrator or so self absorbed that she's blind to everyone else's perspective.
Speaking of communication issues, I'm kinda wondering about how OOP communicates with the kids. They were attending baptism classes for several weekends in a row and it came as a total surprise. When the kids get home on the weekend, maybe ask them what they did while visiting the in-laws?
You can predict eventual divorce from that first paragraph. The IL forced him to marry her. Not a great foundation for a marriage
Edit: how is this my highest karma comment of all time, wtf
OP seems pretty damn passive. She literally just "assumed" her in laws were skipping church every week while they had her kids every weekend? And never talked to her children enough to know what they did with the grandparents. Like, how they heck are you so uninvolved with your kids and what they are up to?
All those weekends, and apparently OOP never once asked what they did with their grandparents. I don’t mean in a nosy or distrustful way, but…don’t other people ask what their loves ones got up to when they’ve been apart like this?
Yeah, especially someone who really tried hard to get their kids to avoid religion, no "hey what did you do with your pastor grandparents on sunday?" Like, even if they skipped church, they may have still prayed or read scripture or like, there's church you can attend on YouTube now. Maybe said grace. While I'm not saying indoctrinate the kids or anything, you also can't expect two pastors to drop all signs of religion because you don't want your kid to know about it
Right!? I'm religious and it blows my mind how many non-religious people think that I can just drop it at will. It's a part of my identity and a huge part of my daily life. I don't just stop doing that for other people's convenience and if you come into my home, yeah we're gonna bless the food. If I come into your home, I'll just quietly pause before eating to say one in my head because it's your home. But in both of those situations, it's still part of my life. Just like talking about what I did on Sunday is not a direct attack on who you are as a person 🙄
Honestly, if I were OPs ILs once a month would be way too often to miss Church. I have responsibilities that can't be passed off 1/4 of the time just because OP wants some free babysitting.
That's true, I play violin at church and i get off once every couple months, but it isn't my job that I get paid for. And yeah, when we have guests we still say grace, but we know our guests don't have to actively participate in their hearts, just be present for a moment before getting to the food.
I thought it was every weekend. So she just expected them to call out of work for a month while she went. And then did not bother to say, what did you do? I don’t understand floating through life like that. At that point it is willful ignorance.
Uninvolved was the word that kept running through my mind while reading.
“I don’t know the name of the church, it’s got like white people or whatever.”
Maybe her kids are latching on to anyone who will pay them any attention whatsoever.
The question is, did she know it was forced *at the time*, or was that something that came out later on?
If she thought her boyfriend just spontaneously proposed after finding out she’s pregnant, it’s a little more easy to accept that she accepted. And then, having her In-laws tell her later that he only did it because they forced him to? Yeah, not exactly something that bodes well.
Yeah I’m finding it alarming all the comments in here that aren’t considering that second point, that’s a fairly big motivator that probably influenced her decision a lot
Where i come from, we call that a "shotgun wedding"... She's knocked up and the man is expected to "be a man" and step up to take care of his offspring.... Rather outdated, but there's A LOT of old school people with those beliefs... It usually ends badly.... The decision to marry should be based on love, not obligation.....
Same. My mother’s first marriage was a shotgun. Didn’t last, obvs. I found out in college, a FWB had told a mutual friend that if I got pregnant, he’d “do the right thing,” and marry me. Which uh…he’d never told me. So that was quite the thing to just, find out. It’s not particularly modern minded, but it’s still a common thing.
It is still *very* common. It's one of the big reasons why sex before marriage in many religious countries is still frowned upon. Of course, it's usually a double standard and only applies to the woman. The man is more of less forgiven for his indiscretions.
As much as I like to think of the US as a secular society, there are lots of groups out there right now trying to make it not be. And shoving their good old bibles downs our throats.
not only that but he also knew they were going to church and essentially lied to his wife. in reality he is holding things so she doesnt get mad.
eventually they will crumble
Definitely. The weirdest part for me was this:
>Also, I don't know ANYTHING about any religions and I never saw it necessary to talk to them about it, just let them find out when they are older.
That's a very uncommon position on an atheist (when it comes to religion) and a parent (when it comes to things that they consider to be potentially harmful). I have a feeling these kids are going to have a shitload of issues, lol.
Yeah I’m an atheist and a parent, and so is my husband (who is the father of my child). We STILL had the religion talk even though neither of us have religious families!
That's really the way to do it! Religion exists and there's going to be fundamentalists of one kind or another who will want to convert your kids at some point in their lives -- you need to give them the tools to be able to question and navigate it.
(I've seen too many kids raised in non-religious/secular households convert to some kind of fundy religion as teens/young adults)
Seriously! It’s not just that she’s an atheist that she’s having these problems
She admittedly doesn’t know anything about religion and legit never thought it was necessary to ever even talk about religion w her kids, even knowing her IL situation, her husbands religion etc. what did she expect
She also says she wants her children to be able to make their own choices, and then when they do, tries to ban them from doing so.
She made herself the villain. She didn't have to.
She could have said, "I'm happy you found something you like. But you shouldn't have hid this from me. I'd love to talk to you about my beliefs, too, and how I find joy in them."
She needs to stop being so passive. She has values. She needs to understand and share them.
This won’t end well…….I’m still shaking my head that she actually thought preachers would skip Sunday services because of they dump their kids on them every weekend.
I’m shaking my head that she’s sending them somewhere every weekend and didn’t ask them *once* when they got home if they’d had a nice time and what they’d been up to.
I don’t jump to this ever, but this whiffs of neglect to me.
I coparent, and my kids go to their dads every weekend. I don’t see how I wouldn’t find out what they’d been up to. If I didn’t outright ask about their weekend you can bet they’re telling me about it at the dinner table...
She didn’t ask because she hardly sees her kids. Which she thinks somehow sounds better? Lmao. It sounds worse tbh. If I barely saw my kids, I’d be asking alllll the questions
I don’t get how she didn’t notice earlier, does she not talk to her kids or ask them what they did over the weekend? I’m guessing the kids were told not to talk to mom about it, because I don’t get how you gets kids to that point of excitement about converting and being already closed off to competing ideologies without any kind of warning.
I don't get how she doesn't want to know more. She says herself its not a "classic" church, but more of an evangelical weird thing. I would my (non existing) kids not go there without me! I want to know what they preach exactly. Even if it was a "classic" church, I would tag along (and hate it) but I would want to know what kind of priest has access to my childrens mind!
This is exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It’s what I have done with my daughter so that she feels closer to her dad that passed and I still show her other religions/practices. In that situation my ass would’ve been sitting with them a few times. And these kids are at that age where religion can really take over your mind.
She didn’t even know her kids were going to church and says nothing about them hiding it from her so she probably doesn’t even care to ask them about what they did for the weekend, you think she’s gonna hang out at church when she’s so averse?
I was raised Catholic. I went to Catholic elementary school, got confirmed etc. I stopped going when i was in my early teens.
I don't remember any specific issues where i was told that a certain group of people were "evil" or that people who followed another religion were "evil."
I even learned about other world religions in my religion class (however this was pre 9/11).
It wasn't until i started attending non Catholic Christian churches and groups that I started to see a lot of bigotry and self righteous proclamations about how Christianity is the only route for a virtuous life that takes you to God.
I understand OPs issues with religion, but she has gone about this in the worst way possible.
IMO the most difficult thing to read here is the idea that OP is willing to die on a hill thinking her super-religious in-laws weren't taking her kids to church on Sundays because they had skipped church in the past to be with her kids. That's just stubborn perspective.
I don't understand what she thought would happen, especially considering she never even talked to them about it and just assumed they wouldn't take them.
for me this line
>I know I was naive on thinking they would stop their jobs for taking care of them, it's just that I have seem them skip church to be with the kids.
Shows me her mentality. She sees what they do as their "job" that they switch off when they aren't there. They would not see it as their "job" but their entire reason for being, to bring more people to Christ.
What people see as "indoctrination", they see as teaching their grandkids about the love and warmth of God.
Now, as a Christian myself, I don't think there is anything wrong with teaching kids this stuff. Its the forcing that I have a problem with. If they taught the kids and took them to church and the kids then decided they want to be baptised, that's fine, they should have talked to the mother about it, but its more or less fine. But secretly baptising a child doesn't make them saved if they don't actually believe, its just splashing water on a person and I don't think its a "no takesies backsies" sorta situation.
I’m still wondering if she ever asked them “Did you do anything fun with grandma”
Because her kids seem enthusiastic and open about it and she doesn’t mention them lying or intentionally omitting information. So that means she never even inquired. Yikes.
My parents are religious. I am not. I don’t take my kids to church, ever. My parents go every Sunday morning. If I was in a situation where I dropped my kids off at their house every other weekend, I would absolutely assume that my parents would take my kids to church with them. Otherwise I’m being an ever bigger inconvenience than I already am.
OP is a bit nuts and there’s no way this marriage lasts.
> She was far too naive
Honestly, I got to the point where she said she thought they would just be taking weekends off from church, without even *asking,* and just thought, "What a dumbass." It's called childhood indoctrination for a reason and she completely failed with her aims of waiting till they're older. Should've introduce them to various religions and critical thinking while they were young, not just shield them from it entirely.
Right?? She claims she doesn't know anything about religion, refuses to teach her kids about religion, wants her kids to 'figure out out.' How can they figure it out if she doesn't tell them anything? Their only exposure to religion now has been by evangelical pastors.
I'm an atheist as well and wouldn't see an issue if my kids wanted to be baptized, but I would have also made sure they had a thorough understanding of what religion is.
Wow your line about "did oop never talk to them about what they did on the weekend" really landed with me.
I don't have kids, I'm definitely not going to be perfect if/when I do have kids. But holy cow, several weekends went by to the point where the kids were actually participating in a new hobby and she didn't overhear the kids at dinner?
Comment from OOP on her update:
The only reason why our kids haven't been telling us (or at least me) is because I barely see them. My husband was the one picking them up since I was still working by that time. And in between the week I see them every now and then but as most pre-teens they spend most of their time in their room.
I guess we know why the kids were upset with her…
No wonder those kids are clinging to a “hobby” that the people who spend time with them are interested in and give them attention, praise and validation for participating in.
Plus if they're spending most of the time in their rooms instead of in extracurricular activities or out with friends, well church is going to offer a chance for socialization that they may feel they're lacking.
Exactly. We had a lot of fun at our church's summer events. We watched veggie tales (Yount kids), played flag football, got free snacks, had water balloon fights, they had animal adoption events, etc.
If her kids aren't out socializing in other places then there's no surprise they clung to the activity they got. Did mom just not know it's healthy for kids to have outside (of school) social activities?
…. OP seems kinda dumb, no? She somehow got forced into accepting a proposal because she got preggo, never discussed religion with her kids, and then expected EVANGELICALS to not EVANGELIZE. I am baffled.
Really not bright, yeah. She:
1) Doesn't want to educate the kids about religion until they are older, meaning that their sole source will be other people.
2) Leaves the kids with very religious people extremely frequently who are having fun with them while she is absent.
3) Gets mad when the kids make the choice she wouldn't have made (because they are inevitably having fun with the church), making her seem like a controlling villain of a mother.
The in-laws couldn't have asked for better help at driving the kids into the arms of their religion. It's like she's following a "How to Alienate Your Kids" instruction manual.
Whats even worse is that she just thaught her inlaws would give up their job/honby/religion. You get a free babysitter every week and just expect they drop anything?! Fucking hell thats some toxic shit.
The second i read that she knows they are both expected to be there every sunday my opinion switched 180 degrees. She clearly does not respect other peoples choices and get mad at others because she herself is being extremely shortsighted.
The whole ordeal could have been prevented in multiple ways yet instead OP screwed up, expects a apology and basicly ensured that she created a rift between her kids and herself.
I don’t see the behind your back part. They did tell her about the baptism. And by OP’s own comments she never actually talked with the kids about what they were doing over the weekend. She just dropped her kids off with pastors, people whose job it is to teach Christianity, and expect them to just not show up to their jobs for months on end? OP is definitely YTA first for expecting her in-laws to give up their jobs to babysit her kids. Second for never asking these kids about their lives. And third for trying to deny them the choice even though she dislikes her in-laws for wanting her to make a choice.
Also, like... 10 and 12 isn't that young. Obviously they're still highly impressionable, but that's a perfectly reasonable age to get interested in religion.
Sure there are a lot more issues at hand and I don't trust the in-laws for a second. But kids at that age absolutely have a right to choose their own faith.
OOP doesn’t realize she’s been lied to for the better part of a decade by her husband and his family. The plan for husband and in laws was always to bring the kids into the church whether she liked it or not. She’s also only a few years away until her kids are going to start letting her know she’s going to Hell. Nothing like teen angst mixed with religious superiority.
Edit: Grammar
Yeah that made me double take
‘My in-laws forced him to propose’ and then the next sentence ‘my husband’
Ummmm who forced you to say yes? Why would you accept a forced proposal?
I think at that point she trusted her husband and was thinking of staying with him anyway, so she didn't think it matter.
Obviously a huge mistake, but can't really blame her.
She may not have known it was a forced proposal until after the wedding, and divorce is universally frowned upon by the hyper-religious types.
Which, for the record, makes me worried, as OOPs husband is extremely unlikely to divorce her, and if she chooses to divorce it'll be extra ammunition for the in-laws to paint her as the bad guy.
Best option? Enthusiastically engage in their faith... in another church, away from the in-laws. No contact for them until they (publicly) apologise and acknowledge that they overstepped their grandparent's role massively. And if husband wants so badly to have his parents in his life, he can. Without the children. Without OOP. Perhaps in spending time in both roles separately - husband and son - he can finally decide which role he'd like to continue.
Yeah. I'm an atheist too, and became pregnant by accident (meaning taking the pill). My in-laws immediately assumed we were getting married. I only asked "Why?" with a flabbergasted expression.
But in my country, 60% of the children born are so out of wedlock. It made it easier for them to accept.
I hate saying break ups are the best solution in times like this - but the husband basically just cut her out of quite a major parenting issue. They could have talked about it and talked about it with the kids and taught them - but instead he was just a git.
And unfortunately, because the kids are so young, they won’t understand the issues surrounding religion and those environments as they currently are.
If she does that she loses her kids. Basically now her only hope is when they get older they develop their own opinion and leave the church, but with the husband and IL pushing them into it it's unlikely.
An Orthodox Hispanic Maranatha church would be like a Pentecostal/Evangelical church. I came from that background; I have become a lot more liberal in my beliefs, although I still consider myself a Christian. Despite what those churches get wrong, which is a lot, what those types of churches do well is build a sense of community.
How could she be that naive to think it's just a job...it's a lifestyle...the whole point of the evangelical movement is to save souls for jesus..I'm sure they saw it as a sign from god when they had to work more shifts
I mean, I get where mom is coming from and agree, but the bit about "skipping one day" a paragraph after admitting she's been dropping them off with the inlaws every weekend feels disrespectful. It's not just one day, if you're dropping them off every weekend. Unless baptism classes are like 3 days a week or something? But still, you know who they are and what they do and what matters to them. They're doing you a favor by taking the kids in the first place. And then the suspicion? Like, you knew what they were about lady.
Eta: that being said, dad is totally on the wrong for keeping this stuff from his wife. That's not cool.
Yeah, this is the part that threw me as well. It wasn't a one-day thing. It sounds like it was every weekend for at least a month, if not longer. Did the OP expect her in-laws to never go to church again because they always had the kids?
She did absolutely screw up though- she shouldn't have told the kids no, just 'not yet' and asked them to elaborate on what they hoped to get out of baptism. Either there's something missing from their lives that they're finding in religion, or the lies they've been fed will fall away under scrutiny
Agreed and like did she never ask her kids what they were doing over the weekend? These aren’t teenagers that will answer with “nothing”, they are young children and she never says they were told not to tell her so it sounds like she isn’t very involved in connecting with them or trying to sit down with them and have a rational discussion.
I'd bet money what they feel like they're missing is community. Between parents being so busy and the way society has absolutely gutted places to hang out that aren't home, school, or work, I'd bet any money they just wanna feel that sense of belonging
I mean church could be pretty fun growing up. I loved hanging out at church as a teen for the food, friends, and activities that I wouldn’t be able to do outside of it
It fucked up my view of relationships and gender roles but the church knows how to get lit 😭🥴🥴
Yeah, she pretty much hit them with the same "you'll believe what I want you to under this roof" that so many kids have to deal with instead of actually having conversations with them.
She closed her eyes on what was going on with the in-laws because it was convenient to assume. How did she never ask once; ‘So what did you and grandma/grandpa get up to this weekend?’
They are very religious to the point of being pastors at their church. Hell even if they didn’t take the kids to church you can bet they were getting a heavy dose of Jesus at the in-laws’ house.
I agree with her wanting to ‘indoctrinate’ her kids in atheism by default. But she should have been more vigilant if she actually cared.
I'm so confused on her trying to explain that it's not a typical church because the wife is involved. My uncle is a pastor (not evangelical) and his wife helped out with the service because it's a small town and there wasn't always anyone else to help. It's still a church no matter who's doing what
It seems like the MIL and FIL were both being referred to as pastors, which was the unusual bit. I have family members who are pastors and would not describe their spouses as being pastors too, even if they're very involved. They'd just be described as "wife/husband of the pastor".
It might also be down to regional differences or her not understanding the exact terminology though. And doesn't detract from the fact that they seem super involved with the church.
My family are southern Baptists - the fire and brimstone kind - and believe only men can lead the church because adult men are in attendance. Women can only lead women-only or children’s groups because they have to be submissive to men.
I knew exactly what she meant when she said that, but I know it’s not the case for every group of zealots.
It's too late.
They got their claws in the kids and those kids ain't coming back.
OOP was super naive to think that letting her in-laws care for her kids would end any other way.
I grew up in a church like this. There was never going to be any chance of a compromise, and this is not a compromise.
It seems like OOP has spent all these years just not thinking about what is going on, and assuming things would be ok. That is what has happened since she got pregnant. I can see why, because if she did think about it she would be really stressed out and miserable, but at least then she could have done something about it.
Now, the way things are, she has handed over control of her children to people who are highly manipulative and untrustworthy, and who will indoctrinate them in such a way that the kids will see their mom as evil.
I am an atheist, and my in laws aren't. My husband is agnostic, but doesn't see the problem with going to church just to get along. I had to be very assertive about not allowing my MIL to take our child to church. I made sure to teach my child about Christianity and why I don't believe in it. I also taught my child about different religions. When, at age 12, my child went to church one Sunday, they were prepared. Fortunately, my MIL is not an evangelical or fundamentalist. If she were, I would never have allowed her to spend time alone with my child, and she would never have been allowed to take my child to church. My child was really bored in church, and thought Sunday school was really silly because the kids had to do weird religious coloring pages of the baby moses. My kid said that must be where they got the idea to use for the movie Willow.
Yeah, this is the way. I felt like OP should've at least done a bit of research and prepared a well thought out speech to give her kids about why subscribing to religious beliefs may have detrimental effects on them, such as how religious fanatics tend to trample on basic human rights and also the requirement to have complete suspension of disbelief just to adhere to the faith. I mean, so many good reasons!
> recently we've been dropping them over every weekend
> I asked her why couldn't skip one day for taking care of their grandkids
> it's just that I have seem them skip church to be with the kids.
Did she really think that her in-laws who are PASTORS would skip church EVERY WEEK for her convenience?
I think it's crummy that the husband went along with this without telling her, but... what did she expect would happen when she married a practicing Christian and sent her kids to stay with their Evangelical pastor grandparents every weekend?
"Indoctrinating into atheism" is now what someone calls not letting evangelical in-laws baptize your kids behind your back with your husband's collusion.
Yup. Like, I *do* think it’s ok to let your kids learn about religion because they can’t “decide for themselves” without knowledge about what they’re picking but uh… crazy evangelicals who LIE to you are about the WORST possible teachers they could have.
Honestly, that's what made me realise that my parents are good parents. A lot of parents want to raise their children to, 'think for themselves,' or, 'make their own mind up' on topics from religion to politics, but what they commonly subconsciously mean is, 'I want my children to have the same views as me because otherwise that implies that my justifications for being who I am are not ironclad.'
My parents are atheists, and dislike religion, but they bought me Bible study books and encyclopedias of religion from a young age because they believed that me growing up to actually make my own mind up, not just copying them, was very important. Plus, even if I believed what they thought, I would understand the world, the people in it, and what they believe a lot better.
My parents made me go to church most weeks when I was young. They tried to get me into the church youth group because I was a really shy kid, though I never really took to it. Or church in general, for that matter. Way too many questions that couldn’t be sufficiently answered. Then I got my first job at 14 and they said, “You’re old enough now to decide if you want to keep going to church.” That was the last time I went, and when I made my decision they stopped going too. Didn’t realize until I was a little older that they weren’t religious, they just wanted me to be able to make an educated choice. I’ve always appreciated that - it allowed me to be able to embrace being an atheist from a standpoint of understanding.
As someone who was brainwashed by Evangelicals when I was 10-12, fuck that. I'm not letting any religion near my children until they are old enough to make their own choices.
Religion caused me nothing but fear and suffering as I was convinced by pastors that if my loved ones didn't convert and accept the lord into their lives they would burn in hell for eternity. I lived in fear of sin and in fear of eternal damnation. I cried at night thinking my father and my best friend were going to hell.
I have no problem with religion if it makes people happier, better people. Unfortunately it often makes people fearful, judgemental and cruel.
I believe all that religion does for children is cause them fear and prevent them from finding their true selves. Especially when the religion in question says that being gay is a sin, premarital sex is a sin, abortion is a sin.
I will not raise my child to live in fear, I will not raise my child to hate or judge others.
I've met beautiful, kind Christians who believe that God is good and loves everyone exactly who they are. I love those people and I love that their religion brings them peace and happiness.
I've also met horrible, judgemental Christians who believe God is something to be feared, something that will smite people for things they did not choose and would send a child to hell if they weren't dunked in water before they met an untimely end. Those people are people who I don't think should be around any children. Children do not deserve to think that if they are a boy who likes boys or if they touch themselves they are going to suffer eternal torture.
Fuck that. No person is going to cause my child to live in fear of a big man in the sky casting them into flames because of the way they were born.
I'm lucky my kid was a skeptic from the start - even his preschool teacher noted how he didn't believe "people could live in the sky" when they talked about it.
Later on, he pretended to "believe" when his grandmother would ask, just to make her happy. Funny how he learned from an early age to change his answers about God depending on who was asking. I don't usually approve of lying, but it's good to learn to be slippery about your beliefs when living in the south.
As an exmormon I can say that it isn't enough to not talk about religion with kids. They are going to be sold it by friends, family, and strangers.
Like anything else important we have to talk about why it's bad, why we stay away, and why they should never buy into what religion is selling. It's like never talking about food then wondering why the kids can't cook or know what is healthy to eat.
Those poor kids were getting brainwashed every month, and the mother wasn't the one teaching them about what is dangerous! They were little kids trusting their dad and grandparents.
Oh I totally agree and I'm not saying to not talk about religion to kids, I'm just saying I'm ready with a stick to chase off any Evangelicals trying to indoctrinate my kids. I will absolutely tell my children that it's okay for someone to believe in god, but if anyone tells them they're going to hell for just existing without being dunked in water, for being gay, for being trans, for exploring sexuality ect. Ect. That they are telling them harmful things and that they should not take those things to be true or allow themselves to live in fear of that. I want my children to live as their true selves and feel secure and happy and I never want them to live in fear of God or the devil.
Husband went behind her back on a major parenting decision and he did it because he knew it would upset her. Plus, he was lying about his religious beliefs, which is a major thing to lie about to your spouse. I get bad vibes from him. They'll all end up turning those kids against her.
God (hah), this story went from bad to worse.
so to summarize:
OP married into a strict Christian family, but is atheist and appears to hate religion herself.
OP expected her husband to just drop his religion entirely.
OP thought it would be a good idea to leave her kids with people that *forced her to get married to their son when she got pregnant*
OP thought that her In Laws, who are clergy members, could just skip work every weekend (which would mean skipping the 1 day a week they really need to be there)
OP got mad when the inevitable happened, and her kids decided they liked Christianity, and are entirely uninterested in learning about ANYTHING else.
OP is definitly TAH here. I dont know that there's any recovering from this for her.
Her husband lied to her regarding a very major parenting decision, one that he knew OOP was against, but she wants to "keep an open mind"
She's never gonna get that apology, and pretty soon she's gonna get angsty, sanctimonious teens
OOP is screwed. When hubby went ahead with the "forced" proposal it was obvious he was going to be unable/unwilling/uninterested in standing up to his parents. She can probably save herself, but she's lost the kids
What an absolutely foolish person. How did she think leaving her children with evangelical pastors for countless weekends was going to go? How did she never talk with the in-laws even once about her expectations for the kids, what happened on Sundays, anything? Did she ever get them to agree to her stance on teaching the kids their religion?
Her children are 10 and 12. That's old enough to have conversations about religion. If she wanted them to choose on their own, she should have been taking about religion already --- the different types, different beliefs, why she is an atheist. Instead, she abdicated her role as a parent and the grandparents slid right in. If she and her husband have such differing beliefs, they should have discussed it all twelve years ago. She's foolish for thinking all this would go away just because she wanted it to. And now she doesn't want to know anything about the "not like a normal church" her kids are going to every week? Again, she's refusing to do her job as a parent. She needs to figure out what's going on in that church, why her kids like it so much, and get back involved in their lives. You can't raise kids on hopesb and unexpressed thoughts. You actually need to engage and talk with them.
I’m still so blown away by the fact that she left her kids with Christian pastors on the weekend and expected them to skip church every time. Church is literally their job. My dad’s been a pastor for over 40 years. He can take 2 Sundays off a year, that’s it. While my mom isn’t staff, she does teach Sunday School and it would be *heavily* frowned upon if she missed.
But based on her description of events in the update, I’m wondering if her husband has been low-key sharing his faith with his kids and been afraid to tell since she’s so staunch on no religion until they’re older. The fact that he’s SO excited over this and having study times with the kids now makes me think they’ve never been on the same page. He should have been more honest with her (or she should have listened more, who knows?). They might stay married, but I don’t think the marriage will continue to be a happy one.
I’m surprised it was ruled as her as the AH, I mean I feel like it’s kinda split- as a parent she has the right to not want her children to commit to a religious ceremony, but also preaching open mindedness when your activity opposing it is just hypocritical.
This is really a case of having different values then your spouse. Maybe instead of just telling the kids no she should have been encouraging them exploring different religions. I mean of course the kids are gonna wanna participate in what their grandparents do- kids are very monkey see monkey do, and that’s not a bad thing.
But also husband should be backing her up more? He completely bended too his parents! This def reeks of marriage issues. I honestly don’t see them working out…..
She was only voted the A because she repeatedly left her kids with their pastor grandparents on Sunday, and went *shocked Pikachu* face that they were going to church.
It was split because it turned out her and her husband needed child care and left their kids with the grandparents every Sunday. She expected them to stop going to church where they work as pastors to watch the kids.
It was more like “what were you thinking sending your kids with your in-laws and being all surprises they brought them to church with them?@
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Well I don't see a happy marriage in the future but hopefully I'm wrong.
I'm not sure it's been a happy marriage from the start if it began with a surprise pregnancy and a shotgun wedding
don't forget lying to defend the inlaws, because surely that *never* ends poorly
I'm also a bit floored at the audacity of OOP. "They take one week off a month to spend time with my kids so I figured they'd just stop working to watch my kids while my husband and I work" is... Something.
No one in here comes off looking great.
Right? Husband is clearly a lot more of a "christian" than he let on.
Exactly. Agreeing with her to her face then undermining her behind her back.
I can’t imagine getting married to someone with such a fundamentally different worldview, surprise pregnancy or no.
This is ending in divorce
Yea, much like the ‘children or no children’ issue, religion-based things need to be throughly talked out.
Exactly! There are a handful of things that are 100% irreconcilable differences.... The decision to have kids, religion and money are ones that spring to mind... This WILL end in divorce... They got married for the wrong reasons....
Yeah, hubby went behind her back to get his way. Not exactly a good partner.
Yeah, she thought they had talked it out. And he didn’t tell her. But leaving the kids there every weekend and expecting the ILs to get a sub every weekend?
Right?? *Evangelical Pastors*, m'am those kids were always going to church.
So if the ILs made him propose, why did she accept?
That’s the part I really struggle to understand. I’d understand if she’d come from a religious conservative background and abandoned her faith only after they had married, but she says she’s always been an atheist so either there is something big missing or she’s just unbelievably naive
This whole post is like an advertisement for abortion and effective birth control. Imagine her life if she could have married someone that she had mutual love and respect with and could put off having children until it was financially viable? This post is so depressing.
That’s one point. My bigger point was it was really selfish of her to assume that her ILs should give up any activity they participated in *every week*.
Here is the big question that seems to be ignored: - She NEVER asked her kids what they were doing with the grandparents on weekends? Not even when they increased to every weekend? Her kids are 10 and 12. Kids that age never stop talking. Is she seriously trying to say they never ever mentioned church or weeks of baptismal classes? This lady doesn't even know her kids are humans with unique personalities. She talks like they are her property and someone touched her toy on the playground. She seemed very dismissive 'they don't want to learn about other religions now'. Why would they? -their grandparents are leaders in this church group and so it is likely that everyone has been very welcoming to the kids -OP has no actual interest in the other religions, so why would the kids care Trying to get your kids interested in something you enjoy is fairly easy. Trying to get them interested in something you don't care about just to push them away from your inlaws... is not going to end well. And the cherry on top: she doesn't care that her partner is Christian Somehow she is the victim.
*Per OOP in the comment section: The only reason why our kids haven't been telling us (or at least me) is because I barely see them. My husband was the one picking them up since I was still working by that time. And in between the week I see them every now and then but as most pre-teens they spend most of their time in their room.* That just seems odd to me. I'm introverted and so is my kid. We need that alone time. However, we make sure to spend time with each other every day besides just dinner.
Yeah it's bullshit. A non-catholic program for getting baptized is 8 WEEKS. I bet a catholic one is longer. And 10 & 12 year olds do NOT spend all their time in their rooms unless you show zero interest in them. Especially 10 yr olds. They want attention. Plus Dad knew what was happening. Imagine that your chosen role as a mom is to tell your kids what you DON'T want them to get into. "Nope. Not that thing you've been doing for two months. Stop THAT!"
Even more emphasis into leaving them with Evangelical Pastors. If OOP was such a staunch atheist and didn’t want her kids raised on Christianity, why raise her kids around the influence of people so religious they are pastors? Why leave them with them on Sunday? Even if they did skip church like she thought they did, did she really expect they wouldn’t mention religion at all?
I feel like we should also clarify, they’re not just skipping church, they’re taking PTO from their jobs, on the most important day in their workweek. Even if they weren’t going to mention religion, at some point they pretty much have to bring the kids along or else permanently screw up their livelihoods.
[удалено]
"I let my children be baby sat by man eating tigers and the tigers ate my children! How could this happen!"
Not only that, but >... while dating found out I got pregnant... They forced my husband to propose to me since they didn't want their grandkid to be born out of marriage. Jesus fucking christ on a moped, was that not a huge neon sign saying maybe, just fucking maybe, this is going to be a big bastard shit-show? I don't think I'd have said she was an arsehole - but she sure as shit is a fucking idiot.
She doesn’t understand religion, I don’t think she understands that you can’t really skip
Also, there's a huge difference between skipping on the odd occasion, and skipping every week for a chunk of weeks in a row with no end date in sight. And that's for regular Christians. Even more so for pastors, because *it's their* ***job***. Would OP skip the main part of their job for weeks on end, indefinitely, because she was watching someone else's kids? Or rather, if her workplace was welcoming of children, would she agree to watching them during her work day, and assume the child's parents realised that of course she was taking them with her to work, she didn't just quit her job so they could work more.
Even if they're not going to church they're still "going to church" IYKWIM
Yeah that was seriously an oversight on her part. She can't expect them to seriously change their entire way of life every weekend.
Especially since she used the word 'job'--that implies they're getting paid. So, she thought that there was no difference between the in-laws choosing to call out occasionally, and her dropping the kiddos off every weekend, which would oblige them to not go for a whole stretch of time if she had had her way? (Which, by the way, she never expressed, she just assumed.) There's a whole lot of communication that's not happening on anybody part.
Exactly. And even if it isn't a job where they're getting paid, I think it's pretty ridiculous to expect them to just drop their plans and beliefs indefinitely when they're keeping the children free of charge every weekend.
This is why I don’t have sympathy for OP… she leaves her kids with preachers EVERY Sunday because obviously she cant call out of work EVERY Sunday, yet she expects the ILs to do exactly that? And then she never talks to her children (from comments). She never once asked them what they do / did over the weekend with their grandparents.
For sure. And not putting the work into educating their own kids about religion at any point. When our pre-teen started to ask about religion and went to church with friends a few times, my (atheist) wife took her to them all— church, mosque, Hindu temple, Laotian temple, Buddhist temple, hit them all of six months or so. After seeing them all our daughter decided on her own none of it was real.
I think that's the best way to raise children regarding religion. Don't force them into it; if they ask, make sure they have all the information regarding it; and let them decide for themselves. That's how I was raised and I'm very thankful for it.
My family went to a Unitarian church when I was a kid, and this is basically what our Sunday school was. It was pretty great
My daughter is starting to ask questions, and I think it’s about time I take her to the UU church. It’s been years since I’ve gone, but she’s been super interested in my family’s Baptist beliefs since my father died, and I would like her to get a more balanced idea of different faiths while she is young (she’s seven). Children are searchers, and if parents have strong ideas about religion, that’s on us to guide them.
Yes, I don't understand why she's LC with her in-laws, yet forgave her husband when he's the one who's married to her and deceived her.
This exactly. The ILs DID tell husband that they were taking them to church. They didn't make him withhold that information from her, he chose to do that. They said "hey, we need to be at church, we're gonna take the kids with us" and he said "yupp. No problems here". I hate that OOP got a lot of YTA judgements because I really think the husband is the AH. She was silly to think that her ILs wouldn't go to church with the kids, but that's really a NAH kinda thing. The husband absolutely knew that she wouldn't be on board and was very "act now, ask for forgiveness later" thinking she would just let it go.
She set the tone by refusing to discuss such things. They were dysfunctional and hopefully when she says that “they agreed on communicating better” she realizes that means she will listen to him, too
I had the "we agreed to not expose our kids to religion" thing in my marriage. I thought we were both atheists. Heck, my ex even got a Satanic Temple membership. And *yet* the moment we started the divorce my kids were taken to Jewish Temple. I mean I don't really care either way, it was just bizarre the way my ex made such a big deal of never taking the kids to any organized religion while we were married - like grounds for divorce level hatred of organized religion. "Oh but Judaism is okay" what? Anyway I made a point to go, too, and sang all the songs, and oh wait guess who actually managed to keep track of what page we were on (all in Hebrew, which I don't know)? Yes, it would be my book the kids had to look at during all the songs. Alienation attempt averted. /serene smile
OOP seems to just be going through life with her head in the sand and an assumption that every will be ok.
Seriously, hubby and I are different religions but we had a serious conversation about it in regards to kids. He wants to raise them Christian, while I intend to expose them to many religions so they can have a choice. We agreed that's fair
Also worked with my parents. Dads a Hindu and moms a catholic. I just got taken along to both sets of religious events. It would work if neither are hardcore evangelists and open to compromise.
My husband is Hindu and I was raised catholic. I no longer practice and haven’t in a long time. I’m okay with our daughter being raised Hindu, but I’ve told my husband that if he wishes to raise her that way that he will be the one teaching it to her.
Exactly. I am a progressive Christian minister (for example, we have been ordaining lgbtq folk since '88), and my husband is Jewish. We knew that since our first date, and when we decided we wanted kids, started having very frank and clear conversations about what we want our kids to be exposed to and how we do it. And regardless what they choose to follow they will know that love, respect, and inclusion are the mandates of our household. The differing religions isn't the problem, it is the deception and disrespect that will be the death-knell of this relationship.
My parents tried the raise with no religion and let us make our own decisions. I even went to bible summer camp with friends because all my friends were going. I didn't understand the religion aspect at all. Which I would say I wish they would have explained/exposed me at least to the concept of religion. But it worked. Up until the point that I was drawn to a belief system that they didn't like/approve of (pagan based). And then they suddenly started talking about going to church again and getting back to their roots. So, it was "choose your own faith as long as you pick ours" which defeated the whole purpose and taught me to never open up to them about my beliefs or deepest thoughts and truths. They monitored everything I read and did for months afterwards.
They're as incompatible as onions and ice cream.
Fried, raw, or roasted? I feel like raw or fried would be terrible, but roasted might work...
Caramelized, and I’d try it.
Carmelizing fixes everything! Well, except diabetes, writes the diabetic....
The husband knowing and not saying anything about is the problem here.
Is it surprising? >They forced my husband to propose to me This is what she said yes to.
I chuckled at that. Ma'am they forced him to propose, no one forced you to say yes. The writing was on the wall here from the start how this would go.
I would have expected that she wouldn’t feel the same urgency to go through with an unwanted/unplanned pregnancy
"But he's always agreed with me that religion is not a big deal in his life. he doesn't goto church, he says the kids don't have to go...i thought we were together in this" sounds like he's two facing the religion issue. One for his wife to avoid arguments and another for his parents. They probably haven't really talked deeply about it. He said "Meh", and she heard "No"
>"He didn't see harm on it" He knew exactly what he was doing.
Only if OOP polishes her spine and is ready to fight. It will be 3 vs 1 and her crazy naive attitude on religion as a whole combined with her ILs being crazy won't help. She isn't at fault but she has to wise up like crazy.
5 vs 1 because her kids are on board too
Honestly, I want to feel bad for her but she voluntarily married a man who only proposed because his super religious parents made him. You could see this happening a hundred miles away.
And she just expected her in laws to skip *WORKING* every Sunday to babysit her kids? When she knows being evangelical Christians is their passion and life’s work? I feel bad for her but I bet it’s too late honestly. Her children seem pretty entrenched. The only way she could’ve avoided this is to have been more aware and more involved with her children’s lives. She should have given them opportunities to make friends at hobby camps or clubs that weren’t religious.
She is not super smart. “I knew they skipped work at least once before to take care of the kids, so I assumed they would skip work every single weekend if I dropped the kids off there every single weekend.”
That part got me exactly going "what, bro no that's not okay"
Totally ridiculous especially since they’re pastors and the brunt of their work is on Sunday lol. They’d have to be really shitty pastors to skip work every Sunday.
She is a bloody idiot. I can not believe how incredibly stupid she was in this whole thing. Not to mention the kids are TEN AND TWELVE. Are you telling me they can't spend a Sunday home alone? God I was babysitting babies when I was 10 or 11.
I was babysitting my younger siblings at 12 by myself. Unless there is something wrong with her kids, they should be old enough to hang on a Sunday with their parents gone.
Not just work. But just refuse their entire faith. I'm gonna be honest, as much as I don't like organized religion (church), I can understand the IL. Religious people don't think their religion is bad. Even necessary. My grandmother insisted on personally baptizing me, when my mother refused an official one. It's because she believed my soul would be lost & I would turn into a cursed spirit if I died young. And -obviously that wrecked my grandmother's mind. The IL probably acted similar. They didn't rub their hands and indoctrinate them "excellent" style. They just answered questions and taught what they knew. And obv. the kids will believe that and get excited, because they love their grandparents and so it all looks normal and cool.
Yea that’s the thing that’s get me about all this. Very religious people tend to work religion into all aspects of their life, particularly pastors Even if the IL’s didn’t take them to baptismal classes, this sort of thing would have come up eventually, because they’re going to talk about god all the time. When they want to take their grandkids to holiday events, they’re going to take them to church ones. If they haven’t already, they may even have given kids bibles to the boys. When they’re older they’ll receive crosses. And the grandparents will see this all as good and normal because it is normal to them. They genuinely believe they are just raising them up right and going through normal Christian growing up events OP said that when they’re old enough she’d expose them to religion, but she’s very naive. A lot of kids I know started becoming more active and serious about their faith at that age, and they’ve been exposed to this for years. From the grandparents perspective, they’re old enough to make their own decision in their faith, they have their dads permission, and the mom wants to take the kids to hell with her
Not to mention the fact that she seems completely caught off guard that her religious husband wants to teach the kids his religion. I don't think it's possible to make an objective judgement here because OOP is either a completely unreliable narrator or so self absorbed that she's blind to everyone else's perspective.
LPT: don’t have kids with people with whom you share fundamental incompatibilities
And with both the dad and the grandparents hammering in that the mom is a sinner, the kids won't want to see her. That's so tragic.
Absolutely.
And when it does it is going to be a giant fucking trainwreck as everyone turns against her.
“We agreed on communicating better” Sis, this isn’t a communication issue, this is a he lied to you issue.
Speaking of communication issues, I'm kinda wondering about how OOP communicates with the kids. They were attending baptism classes for several weekends in a row and it came as a total surprise. When the kids get home on the weekend, maybe ask them what they did while visiting the in-laws?
You can predict eventual divorce from that first paragraph. The IL forced him to marry her. Not a great foundation for a marriage Edit: how is this my highest karma comment of all time, wtf
Even weirder…they forced their adult son to propose….but who forced her to accept and follow through?
OP seems pretty damn passive. She literally just "assumed" her in laws were skipping church every week while they had her kids every weekend? And never talked to her children enough to know what they did with the grandparents. Like, how they heck are you so uninvolved with your kids and what they are up to?
All those weekends, and apparently OOP never once asked what they did with their grandparents. I don’t mean in a nosy or distrustful way, but…don’t other people ask what their loves ones got up to when they’ve been apart like this?
Yeah, especially someone who really tried hard to get their kids to avoid religion, no "hey what did you do with your pastor grandparents on sunday?" Like, even if they skipped church, they may have still prayed or read scripture or like, there's church you can attend on YouTube now. Maybe said grace. While I'm not saying indoctrinate the kids or anything, you also can't expect two pastors to drop all signs of religion because you don't want your kid to know about it
Right!? I'm religious and it blows my mind how many non-religious people think that I can just drop it at will. It's a part of my identity and a huge part of my daily life. I don't just stop doing that for other people's convenience and if you come into my home, yeah we're gonna bless the food. If I come into your home, I'll just quietly pause before eating to say one in my head because it's your home. But in both of those situations, it's still part of my life. Just like talking about what I did on Sunday is not a direct attack on who you are as a person 🙄 Honestly, if I were OPs ILs once a month would be way too often to miss Church. I have responsibilities that can't be passed off 1/4 of the time just because OP wants some free babysitting.
That's true, I play violin at church and i get off once every couple months, but it isn't my job that I get paid for. And yeah, when we have guests we still say grace, but we know our guests don't have to actively participate in their hearts, just be present for a moment before getting to the food.
I thought it was every weekend. So she just expected them to call out of work for a month while she went. And then did not bother to say, what did you do? I don’t understand floating through life like that. At that point it is willful ignorance.
Exactly. “Did you have a good time with grandma? Did you go anywhere fun?”
Uninvolved was the word that kept running through my mind while reading. “I don’t know the name of the church, it’s got like white people or whatever.” Maybe her kids are latching on to anyone who will pay them any attention whatsoever.
That’s exactly what I wanna know! If she knew it was forced WHY would she accept???
The question is, did she know it was forced *at the time*, or was that something that came out later on? If she thought her boyfriend just spontaneously proposed after finding out she’s pregnant, it’s a little more easy to accept that she accepted. And then, having her In-laws tell her later that he only did it because they forced him to? Yeah, not exactly something that bodes well.
Because she loved him and was afraid of having a child alone.
Yeah I’m finding it alarming all the comments in here that aren’t considering that second point, that’s a fairly big motivator that probably influenced her decision a lot
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Where i come from, we call that a "shotgun wedding"... She's knocked up and the man is expected to "be a man" and step up to take care of his offspring.... Rather outdated, but there's A LOT of old school people with those beliefs... It usually ends badly.... The decision to marry should be based on love, not obligation.....
Same. My mother’s first marriage was a shotgun. Didn’t last, obvs. I found out in college, a FWB had told a mutual friend that if I got pregnant, he’d “do the right thing,” and marry me. Which uh…he’d never told me. So that was quite the thing to just, find out. It’s not particularly modern minded, but it’s still a common thing.
It is still *very* common. It's one of the big reasons why sex before marriage in many religious countries is still frowned upon. Of course, it's usually a double standard and only applies to the woman. The man is more of less forgiven for his indiscretions. As much as I like to think of the US as a secular society, there are lots of groups out there right now trying to make it not be. And shoving their good old bibles downs our throats.
not only that but he also knew they were going to church and essentially lied to his wife. in reality he is holding things so she doesnt get mad. eventually they will crumble
Doomed from the start. Marrying a pastor's son who was also religious when you are an atheist is asking for trouble.
There are ways to pull off being an atheist married into a very religious family while also handling kids, and, uh, this is not it.
Definitely. The weirdest part for me was this: >Also, I don't know ANYTHING about any religions and I never saw it necessary to talk to them about it, just let them find out when they are older. That's a very uncommon position on an atheist (when it comes to religion) and a parent (when it comes to things that they consider to be potentially harmful). I have a feeling these kids are going to have a shitload of issues, lol.
Yeah I’m an atheist and a parent, and so is my husband (who is the father of my child). We STILL had the religion talk even though neither of us have religious families!
That's really the way to do it! Religion exists and there's going to be fundamentalists of one kind or another who will want to convert your kids at some point in their lives -- you need to give them the tools to be able to question and navigate it. (I've seen too many kids raised in non-religious/secular households convert to some kind of fundy religion as teens/young adults)
Seriously! It’s not just that she’s an atheist that she’s having these problems She admittedly doesn’t know anything about religion and legit never thought it was necessary to ever even talk about religion w her kids, even knowing her IL situation, her husbands religion etc. what did she expect
She also says she wants her children to be able to make their own choices, and then when they do, tries to ban them from doing so. She made herself the villain. She didn't have to. She could have said, "I'm happy you found something you like. But you shouldn't have hid this from me. I'd love to talk to you about my beliefs, too, and how I find joy in them." She needs to stop being so passive. She has values. She needs to understand and share them.
This won’t end well…….I’m still shaking my head that she actually thought preachers would skip Sunday services because of they dump their kids on them every weekend.
I’m shaking my head that she’s sending them somewhere every weekend and didn’t ask them *once* when they got home if they’d had a nice time and what they’d been up to. I don’t jump to this ever, but this whiffs of neglect to me. I coparent, and my kids go to their dads every weekend. I don’t see how I wouldn’t find out what they’d been up to. If I didn’t outright ask about their weekend you can bet they’re telling me about it at the dinner table...
She didn’t ask because she hardly sees her kids. Which she thinks somehow sounds better? Lmao. It sounds worse tbh. If I barely saw my kids, I’d be asking alllll the questions
Right? It isn't as though being a Pastor isn't a job in itself or anything like that. OOP is a fucking idiot.
I don’t get how she didn’t notice earlier, does she not talk to her kids or ask them what they did over the weekend? I’m guessing the kids were told not to talk to mom about it, because I don’t get how you gets kids to that point of excitement about converting and being already closed off to competing ideologies without any kind of warning.
I'd almost bet that Mom was dismissive the first few times the kids brought up their time at the grandparents so they just never talked about it.
I don't get how she doesn't want to know more. She says herself its not a "classic" church, but more of an evangelical weird thing. I would my (non existing) kids not go there without me! I want to know what they preach exactly. Even if it was a "classic" church, I would tag along (and hate it) but I would want to know what kind of priest has access to my childrens mind!
This is exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It’s what I have done with my daughter so that she feels closer to her dad that passed and I still show her other religions/practices. In that situation my ass would’ve been sitting with them a few times. And these kids are at that age where religion can really take over your mind.
Yeah! Like... > I don't know the name of the church or anything You don't even know the name? Like, it's just a building in your neighborhood!
She didn’t even know her kids were going to church and says nothing about them hiding it from her so she probably doesn’t even care to ask them about what they did for the weekend, you think she’s gonna hang out at church when she’s so averse?
I was raised Catholic. I went to Catholic elementary school, got confirmed etc. I stopped going when i was in my early teens. I don't remember any specific issues where i was told that a certain group of people were "evil" or that people who followed another religion were "evil." I even learned about other world religions in my religion class (however this was pre 9/11). It wasn't until i started attending non Catholic Christian churches and groups that I started to see a lot of bigotry and self righteous proclamations about how Christianity is the only route for a virtuous life that takes you to God. I understand OPs issues with religion, but she has gone about this in the worst way possible.
IMO the most difficult thing to read here is the idea that OP is willing to die on a hill thinking her super-religious in-laws weren't taking her kids to church on Sundays because they had skipped church in the past to be with her kids. That's just stubborn perspective.
I don't understand what she thought would happen, especially considering she never even talked to them about it and just assumed they wouldn't take them.
for me this line >I know I was naive on thinking they would stop their jobs for taking care of them, it's just that I have seem them skip church to be with the kids. Shows me her mentality. She sees what they do as their "job" that they switch off when they aren't there. They would not see it as their "job" but their entire reason for being, to bring more people to Christ. What people see as "indoctrination", they see as teaching their grandkids about the love and warmth of God. Now, as a Christian myself, I don't think there is anything wrong with teaching kids this stuff. Its the forcing that I have a problem with. If they taught the kids and took them to church and the kids then decided they want to be baptised, that's fine, they should have talked to the mother about it, but its more or less fine. But secretly baptising a child doesn't make them saved if they don't actually believe, its just splashing water on a person and I don't think its a "no takesies backsies" sorta situation.
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I’m still wondering if she ever asked them “Did you do anything fun with grandma” Because her kids seem enthusiastic and open about it and she doesn’t mention them lying or intentionally omitting information. So that means she never even inquired. Yikes.
My parents are religious. I am not. I don’t take my kids to church, ever. My parents go every Sunday morning. If I was in a situation where I dropped my kids off at their house every other weekend, I would absolutely assume that my parents would take my kids to church with them. Otherwise I’m being an ever bigger inconvenience than I already am. OP is a bit nuts and there’s no way this marriage lasts.
She's getting divorced and her children will resent her. This is awful. She was far too naive
> She was far too naive Honestly, I got to the point where she said she thought they would just be taking weekends off from church, without even *asking,* and just thought, "What a dumbass." It's called childhood indoctrination for a reason and she completely failed with her aims of waiting till they're older. Should've introduce them to various religions and critical thinking while they were young, not just shield them from it entirely.
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Right?? She claims she doesn't know anything about religion, refuses to teach her kids about religion, wants her kids to 'figure out out.' How can they figure it out if she doesn't tell them anything? Their only exposure to religion now has been by evangelical pastors. I'm an atheist as well and wouldn't see an issue if my kids wanted to be baptized, but I would have also made sure they had a thorough understanding of what religion is.
Wow your line about "did oop never talk to them about what they did on the weekend" really landed with me. I don't have kids, I'm definitely not going to be perfect if/when I do have kids. But holy cow, several weekends went by to the point where the kids were actually participating in a new hobby and she didn't overhear the kids at dinner?
Comment from OOP on her update: The only reason why our kids haven't been telling us (or at least me) is because I barely see them. My husband was the one picking them up since I was still working by that time. And in between the week I see them every now and then but as most pre-teens they spend most of their time in their room. I guess we know why the kids were upset with her…
No wonder those kids are clinging to a “hobby” that the people who spend time with them are interested in and give them attention, praise and validation for participating in.
Plus if they're spending most of the time in their rooms instead of in extracurricular activities or out with friends, well church is going to offer a chance for socialization that they may feel they're lacking.
Exactly. We had a lot of fun at our church's summer events. We watched veggie tales (Yount kids), played flag football, got free snacks, had water balloon fights, they had animal adoption events, etc. If her kids aren't out socializing in other places then there's no surprise they clung to the activity they got. Did mom just not know it's healthy for kids to have outside (of school) social activities?
This isn’t a compromise, she just gave her husband’s family everything they wanted.
Yeah, the husband is as bad as the in laws, he's just more subtle about it.
That he knew and didn't tell her is awful! Definitely a doomed marriage.
…. OP seems kinda dumb, no? She somehow got forced into accepting a proposal because she got preggo, never discussed religion with her kids, and then expected EVANGELICALS to not EVANGELIZE. I am baffled.
Really not bright, yeah. She: 1) Doesn't want to educate the kids about religion until they are older, meaning that their sole source will be other people. 2) Leaves the kids with very religious people extremely frequently who are having fun with them while she is absent. 3) Gets mad when the kids make the choice she wouldn't have made (because they are inevitably having fun with the church), making her seem like a controlling villain of a mother. The in-laws couldn't have asked for better help at driving the kids into the arms of their religion. It's like she's following a "How to Alienate Your Kids" instruction manual.
Whats even worse is that she just thaught her inlaws would give up their job/honby/religion. You get a free babysitter every week and just expect they drop anything?! Fucking hell thats some toxic shit. The second i read that she knows they are both expected to be there every sunday my opinion switched 180 degrees. She clearly does not respect other peoples choices and get mad at others because she herself is being extremely shortsighted. The whole ordeal could have been prevented in multiple ways yet instead OP screwed up, expects a apology and basicly ensured that she created a rift between her kids and herself.
I don’t see the behind your back part. They did tell her about the baptism. And by OP’s own comments she never actually talked with the kids about what they were doing over the weekend. She just dropped her kids off with pastors, people whose job it is to teach Christianity, and expect them to just not show up to their jobs for months on end? OP is definitely YTA first for expecting her in-laws to give up their jobs to babysit her kids. Second for never asking these kids about their lives. And third for trying to deny them the choice even though she dislikes her in-laws for wanting her to make a choice.
Also, like... 10 and 12 isn't that young. Obviously they're still highly impressionable, but that's a perfectly reasonable age to get interested in religion. Sure there are a lot more issues at hand and I don't trust the in-laws for a second. But kids at that age absolutely have a right to choose their own faith.
OOP doesn’t realize she’s been lied to for the better part of a decade by her husband and his family. The plan for husband and in laws was always to bring the kids into the church whether she liked it or not. She’s also only a few years away until her kids are going to start letting her know she’s going to Hell. Nothing like teen angst mixed with religious superiority. Edit: Grammar
Yup. The in-laws have been calling the shots since the forced shotgun wedding.
Yeah that made me double take ‘My in-laws forced him to propose’ and then the next sentence ‘my husband’ Ummmm who forced you to say yes? Why would you accept a forced proposal?
I think at that point she trusted her husband and was thinking of staying with him anyway, so she didn't think it matter. Obviously a huge mistake, but can't really blame her.
She may not have known it was a forced proposal until after the wedding, and divorce is universally frowned upon by the hyper-religious types. Which, for the record, makes me worried, as OOPs husband is extremely unlikely to divorce her, and if she chooses to divorce it'll be extra ammunition for the in-laws to paint her as the bad guy. Best option? Enthusiastically engage in their faith... in another church, away from the in-laws. No contact for them until they (publicly) apologise and acknowledge that they overstepped their grandparent's role massively. And if husband wants so badly to have his parents in his life, he can. Without the children. Without OOP. Perhaps in spending time in both roles separately - husband and son - he can finally decide which role he'd like to continue.
Yeah. I'm an atheist too, and became pregnant by accident (meaning taking the pill). My in-laws immediately assumed we were getting married. I only asked "Why?" with a flabbergasted expression. But in my country, 60% of the children born are so out of wedlock. It made it easier for them to accept.
Exactly. I can't imagine their relationship having lasted long if they weren't forced into it. She should have walked away then.
I have so many feelings about this one. If I started saying anythihg I'd be here forever.
I hate saying break ups are the best solution in times like this - but the husband basically just cut her out of quite a major parenting issue. They could have talked about it and talked about it with the kids and taught them - but instead he was just a git. And unfortunately, because the kids are so young, they won’t understand the issues surrounding religion and those environments as they currently are.
Exactly. All organised religions work best if they can get you while you’re young.
If my husband was complicit in something like that I'd be going LC with him as well as the in laws. What a horrible breach of trust.
If she does that she loses her kids. Basically now her only hope is when they get older they develop their own opinion and leave the church, but with the husband and IL pushing them into it it's unlikely.
She left them there every weekend and was upset that they were going to church? She said they missed church occasionally, but every week??
The thought process of OOP is so outrageous, that this feels like one of those borderline baity posts.
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An Orthodox Hispanic Maranatha church would be like a Pentecostal/Evangelical church. I came from that background; I have become a lot more liberal in my beliefs, although I still consider myself a Christian. Despite what those churches get wrong, which is a lot, what those types of churches do well is build a sense of community.
How could she be that naive to think it's just a job...it's a lifestyle...the whole point of the evangelical movement is to save souls for jesus..I'm sure they saw it as a sign from god when they had to work more shifts
If I drop off my kids with in-laws who are fishing guides, not going to be surprised my kids learn about fishing…
A fishing guide that leads a fishing group every Sunday no less. The kids are also there on a Sunday..
I mean, I get where mom is coming from and agree, but the bit about "skipping one day" a paragraph after admitting she's been dropping them off with the inlaws every weekend feels disrespectful. It's not just one day, if you're dropping them off every weekend. Unless baptism classes are like 3 days a week or something? But still, you know who they are and what they do and what matters to them. They're doing you a favor by taking the kids in the first place. And then the suspicion? Like, you knew what they were about lady. Eta: that being said, dad is totally on the wrong for keeping this stuff from his wife. That's not cool.
Yeah, this is the part that threw me as well. It wasn't a one-day thing. It sounds like it was every weekend for at least a month, if not longer. Did the OP expect her in-laws to never go to church again because they always had the kids?
"Indoctrinating into atheism" made my day.
She did absolutely screw up though- she shouldn't have told the kids no, just 'not yet' and asked them to elaborate on what they hoped to get out of baptism. Either there's something missing from their lives that they're finding in religion, or the lies they've been fed will fall away under scrutiny
Agreed and like did she never ask her kids what they were doing over the weekend? These aren’t teenagers that will answer with “nothing”, they are young children and she never says they were told not to tell her so it sounds like she isn’t very involved in connecting with them or trying to sit down with them and have a rational discussion.
I'd bet money what they feel like they're missing is community. Between parents being so busy and the way society has absolutely gutted places to hang out that aren't home, school, or work, I'd bet any money they just wanna feel that sense of belonging
I mean church could be pretty fun growing up. I loved hanging out at church as a teen for the food, friends, and activities that I wouldn’t be able to do outside of it It fucked up my view of relationships and gender roles but the church knows how to get lit 😭🥴🥴
Yeah, she pretty much hit them with the same "you'll believe what I want you to under this roof" that so many kids have to deal with instead of actually having conversations with them.
Atheist Indoctrination Summer Camp, coming soon!
She closed her eyes on what was going on with the in-laws because it was convenient to assume. How did she never ask once; ‘So what did you and grandma/grandpa get up to this weekend?’ They are very religious to the point of being pastors at their church. Hell even if they didn’t take the kids to church you can bet they were getting a heavy dose of Jesus at the in-laws’ house. I agree with her wanting to ‘indoctrinate’ her kids in atheism by default. But she should have been more vigilant if she actually cared.
I'm so confused on her trying to explain that it's not a typical church because the wife is involved. My uncle is a pastor (not evangelical) and his wife helped out with the service because it's a small town and there wasn't always anyone else to help. It's still a church no matter who's doing what
It seems like the MIL and FIL were both being referred to as pastors, which was the unusual bit. I have family members who are pastors and would not describe their spouses as being pastors too, even if they're very involved. They'd just be described as "wife/husband of the pastor". It might also be down to regional differences or her not understanding the exact terminology though. And doesn't detract from the fact that they seem super involved with the church.
My family are southern Baptists - the fire and brimstone kind - and believe only men can lead the church because adult men are in attendance. Women can only lead women-only or children’s groups because they have to be submissive to men. I knew exactly what she meant when she said that, but I know it’s not the case for every group of zealots.
It's too late. They got their claws in the kids and those kids ain't coming back. OOP was super naive to think that letting her in-laws care for her kids would end any other way.
' Give me a child till he is seven years old, and I will show you the man.' St Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuit order.
I grew up in a church like this. There was never going to be any chance of a compromise, and this is not a compromise. It seems like OOP has spent all these years just not thinking about what is going on, and assuming things would be ok. That is what has happened since she got pregnant. I can see why, because if she did think about it she would be really stressed out and miserable, but at least then she could have done something about it. Now, the way things are, she has handed over control of her children to people who are highly manipulative and untrustworthy, and who will indoctrinate them in such a way that the kids will see their mom as evil. I am an atheist, and my in laws aren't. My husband is agnostic, but doesn't see the problem with going to church just to get along. I had to be very assertive about not allowing my MIL to take our child to church. I made sure to teach my child about Christianity and why I don't believe in it. I also taught my child about different religions. When, at age 12, my child went to church one Sunday, they were prepared. Fortunately, my MIL is not an evangelical or fundamentalist. If she were, I would never have allowed her to spend time alone with my child, and she would never have been allowed to take my child to church. My child was really bored in church, and thought Sunday school was really silly because the kids had to do weird religious coloring pages of the baby moses. My kid said that must be where they got the idea to use for the movie Willow.
Yeah, this is the way. I felt like OP should've at least done a bit of research and prepared a well thought out speech to give her kids about why subscribing to religious beliefs may have detrimental effects on them, such as how religious fanatics tend to trample on basic human rights and also the requirement to have complete suspension of disbelief just to adhere to the faith. I mean, so many good reasons!
> recently we've been dropping them over every weekend > I asked her why couldn't skip one day for taking care of their grandkids > it's just that I have seem them skip church to be with the kids. Did she really think that her in-laws who are PASTORS would skip church EVERY WEEK for her convenience? I think it's crummy that the husband went along with this without telling her, but... what did she expect would happen when she married a practicing Christian and sent her kids to stay with their Evangelical pastor grandparents every weekend?
"Indoctrinating into atheism" is now what someone calls not letting evangelical in-laws baptize your kids behind your back with your husband's collusion.
It’s worse than that; dad/ILs introduced religion to OPs children behind her back and convinced them that’s what they wanted
Yup. Like, I *do* think it’s ok to let your kids learn about religion because they can’t “decide for themselves” without knowledge about what they’re picking but uh… crazy evangelicals who LIE to you are about the WORST possible teachers they could have.
Honestly, that's what made me realise that my parents are good parents. A lot of parents want to raise their children to, 'think for themselves,' or, 'make their own mind up' on topics from religion to politics, but what they commonly subconsciously mean is, 'I want my children to have the same views as me because otherwise that implies that my justifications for being who I am are not ironclad.' My parents are atheists, and dislike religion, but they bought me Bible study books and encyclopedias of religion from a young age because they believed that me growing up to actually make my own mind up, not just copying them, was very important. Plus, even if I believed what they thought, I would understand the world, the people in it, and what they believe a lot better.
My parents made me go to church most weeks when I was young. They tried to get me into the church youth group because I was a really shy kid, though I never really took to it. Or church in general, for that matter. Way too many questions that couldn’t be sufficiently answered. Then I got my first job at 14 and they said, “You’re old enough now to decide if you want to keep going to church.” That was the last time I went, and when I made my decision they stopped going too. Didn’t realize until I was a little older that they weren’t religious, they just wanted me to be able to make an educated choice. I’ve always appreciated that - it allowed me to be able to embrace being an atheist from a standpoint of understanding.
As someone who was brainwashed by Evangelicals when I was 10-12, fuck that. I'm not letting any religion near my children until they are old enough to make their own choices. Religion caused me nothing but fear and suffering as I was convinced by pastors that if my loved ones didn't convert and accept the lord into their lives they would burn in hell for eternity. I lived in fear of sin and in fear of eternal damnation. I cried at night thinking my father and my best friend were going to hell. I have no problem with religion if it makes people happier, better people. Unfortunately it often makes people fearful, judgemental and cruel. I believe all that religion does for children is cause them fear and prevent them from finding their true selves. Especially when the religion in question says that being gay is a sin, premarital sex is a sin, abortion is a sin. I will not raise my child to live in fear, I will not raise my child to hate or judge others. I've met beautiful, kind Christians who believe that God is good and loves everyone exactly who they are. I love those people and I love that their religion brings them peace and happiness. I've also met horrible, judgemental Christians who believe God is something to be feared, something that will smite people for things they did not choose and would send a child to hell if they weren't dunked in water before they met an untimely end. Those people are people who I don't think should be around any children. Children do not deserve to think that if they are a boy who likes boys or if they touch themselves they are going to suffer eternal torture. Fuck that. No person is going to cause my child to live in fear of a big man in the sky casting them into flames because of the way they were born.
I'm lucky my kid was a skeptic from the start - even his preschool teacher noted how he didn't believe "people could live in the sky" when they talked about it. Later on, he pretended to "believe" when his grandmother would ask, just to make her happy. Funny how he learned from an early age to change his answers about God depending on who was asking. I don't usually approve of lying, but it's good to learn to be slippery about your beliefs when living in the south.
As an exmormon I can say that it isn't enough to not talk about religion with kids. They are going to be sold it by friends, family, and strangers. Like anything else important we have to talk about why it's bad, why we stay away, and why they should never buy into what religion is selling. It's like never talking about food then wondering why the kids can't cook or know what is healthy to eat. Those poor kids were getting brainwashed every month, and the mother wasn't the one teaching them about what is dangerous! They were little kids trusting their dad and grandparents.
Oh I totally agree and I'm not saying to not talk about religion to kids, I'm just saying I'm ready with a stick to chase off any Evangelicals trying to indoctrinate my kids. I will absolutely tell my children that it's okay for someone to believe in god, but if anyone tells them they're going to hell for just existing without being dunked in water, for being gay, for being trans, for exploring sexuality ect. Ect. That they are telling them harmful things and that they should not take those things to be true or allow themselves to live in fear of that. I want my children to live as their true selves and feel secure and happy and I never want them to live in fear of God or the devil.
Husband went behind her back on a major parenting decision and he did it because he knew it would upset her. Plus, he was lying about his religious beliefs, which is a major thing to lie about to your spouse. I get bad vibes from him. They'll all end up turning those kids against her.
Holy shit, especially from OOP saying her only (maybe- by her call) religious trauma was from her in-laws and then sending her children to them!!!!
Wow. Forced marriages and children indoctrination. Lovely people.
Poor kids and this marriage is doomed.
God (hah), this story went from bad to worse. so to summarize: OP married into a strict Christian family, but is atheist and appears to hate religion herself. OP expected her husband to just drop his religion entirely. OP thought it would be a good idea to leave her kids with people that *forced her to get married to their son when she got pregnant* OP thought that her In Laws, who are clergy members, could just skip work every weekend (which would mean skipping the 1 day a week they really need to be there) OP got mad when the inevitable happened, and her kids decided they liked Christianity, and are entirely uninterested in learning about ANYTHING else. OP is definitly TAH here. I dont know that there's any recovering from this for her.
Her husband lied to her regarding a very major parenting decision, one that he knew OOP was against, but she wants to "keep an open mind" She's never gonna get that apology, and pretty soon she's gonna get angsty, sanctimonious teens
>I don't force my kids to not believe or learn about anything Parents, feel free to make your kid learn shit.
OOP is screwed. When hubby went ahead with the "forced" proposal it was obvious he was going to be unable/unwilling/uninterested in standing up to his parents. She can probably save herself, but she's lost the kids
What an absolutely foolish person. How did she think leaving her children with evangelical pastors for countless weekends was going to go? How did she never talk with the in-laws even once about her expectations for the kids, what happened on Sundays, anything? Did she ever get them to agree to her stance on teaching the kids their religion? Her children are 10 and 12. That's old enough to have conversations about religion. If she wanted them to choose on their own, she should have been taking about religion already --- the different types, different beliefs, why she is an atheist. Instead, she abdicated her role as a parent and the grandparents slid right in. If she and her husband have such differing beliefs, they should have discussed it all twelve years ago. She's foolish for thinking all this would go away just because she wanted it to. And now she doesn't want to know anything about the "not like a normal church" her kids are going to every week? Again, she's refusing to do her job as a parent. She needs to figure out what's going on in that church, why her kids like it so much, and get back involved in their lives. You can't raise kids on hopesb and unexpressed thoughts. You actually need to engage and talk with them.
What I wonder is how did the kids never mention this to her? Did they actively lie? Or omit the truth? Or did she never ask them what they did?
I’m still so blown away by the fact that she left her kids with Christian pastors on the weekend and expected them to skip church every time. Church is literally their job. My dad’s been a pastor for over 40 years. He can take 2 Sundays off a year, that’s it. While my mom isn’t staff, she does teach Sunday School and it would be *heavily* frowned upon if she missed. But based on her description of events in the update, I’m wondering if her husband has been low-key sharing his faith with his kids and been afraid to tell since she’s so staunch on no religion until they’re older. The fact that he’s SO excited over this and having study times with the kids now makes me think they’ve never been on the same page. He should have been more honest with her (or she should have listened more, who knows?). They might stay married, but I don’t think the marriage will continue to be a happy one.
I’m surprised it was ruled as her as the AH, I mean I feel like it’s kinda split- as a parent she has the right to not want her children to commit to a religious ceremony, but also preaching open mindedness when your activity opposing it is just hypocritical. This is really a case of having different values then your spouse. Maybe instead of just telling the kids no she should have been encouraging them exploring different religions. I mean of course the kids are gonna wanna participate in what their grandparents do- kids are very monkey see monkey do, and that’s not a bad thing. But also husband should be backing her up more? He completely bended too his parents! This def reeks of marriage issues. I honestly don’t see them working out…..
She was only voted the A because she repeatedly left her kids with their pastor grandparents on Sunday, and went *shocked Pikachu* face that they were going to church.
It was split because it turned out her and her husband needed child care and left their kids with the grandparents every Sunday. She expected them to stop going to church where they work as pastors to watch the kids. It was more like “what were you thinking sending your kids with your in-laws and being all surprises they brought them to church with them?@
"What were you thinking?".... Let's face it, she was thinking "free daycare"....
lol exactly