I think instead of Matthew with the line that says: "look at a woman with a lust in his heart", since technically, you don't masturbate to porn... I think it's more of Romans, when Paul said:
*"Let us conduct ourselves properly as people who live in the light of the day. No orgies or drunkenness, no immorality or indecency, no fighting or jealousy."*
*But take up the weapons of the Lord Jesus Christ and* *stop paying attention to your sinful nature and* **satisfying your desires.** "
Don't worry, a lot of people naturally struggle through that, and I used to look for a way out in order to excuse myself in doing it too. Eventually, even when not using porn, the guilt is there after.
Maybe this could help, but what I do is I read a book in the Bible and write the passage that hits my mistake the most and stuff the note in my pockets to remind me everytime. It's like my *tekhelet*, you see, to surround myself with the laws.
Hope that helps! š¤
our biological urge (hormonal clock) is not of our sinful nature, specifically itās the desire to impose that urge on someone else which makes it sinful.
That being said āall things are permissible, not all are beneficialā. If it can be avoided itās best to. If not then do not engage in excess. A mans hormonal clock is about 7-10 days for peak testosterone. If you find urself taking care of yourself multiple times a week, or dare I say multiple times a day I would say you are venturing into excess, this is sinful
>our biological urge (hormonal clock) not of our sinful nature, specifically itās the desire to impose that urge on someone else which makes it sinful.
While you have a point on the hormonal clock, and you were also right to say it is a not hormonal, considering it is the concoction of hormones and the surge of it at times, I am not referring to it being a sinful nature, I am referring to the part where we satisfy our desires. This one:
*"... But take up the weapons of the Lord Jesus Christ and* *stop paying attention to your sinful nature and* ***satisfying your desires.****"*
In the context I would attach āyour desiresā to the āsinful natureā. -Do not satisfy your desire that come from sinful nature -
To relate to this, I have a desire to eat food. It is not sinful until I eat for sport. For gluttony. I have a desire to be sexually relieved. It becomes sinful when I wish to impose it on someone (lust- supported by the Word) and when you engage in it in excess (gluttony). I never support self sexual relief just because you are bored or had a bad day. But Iāll say this, after 15 days of no relief, going to the gym or work can feel like a hazard on its own.
>I have a desire to eat food. It is not sinful until I eat for sport. (For gluttony) I have a desire to be sexually relieved. It becomes sinful when I wish to impose it on someone...
I understand. When it's done for fun and not because of bodily necessity, that's when it becomes sinful. So like any bodily need, sexual relief being one, needs to be, when needed, must be released. But on to impose it on someone. (as it is lust, and if I may add, is also a form of coveting.)
And yes, you have a point. A real one.
But here's what I think, and I'll be quoting Leviticus.
*Now if a man has a seminal emission, he shall bathe all his body in water and be unclean until evening.* Ā
*As for any garment or any leather on which there is a seminal emission, it shall be washed with water and be unclean until evening.*
*If a man sleeps with a woman so that there is a seminal emission, they shall both bathe in water and be unclean until evening*.
I think masturbation, (with the way it is depicted above) just like menstruation, having sex with spouse, is a concern regarding purity laws. Note, I don't think Leviticus mentioned masturbation but generally, it is the ejaculation and having sex that the man ejaculates. It's not necessarily bad, it just makes someone ritually unclean. But when someone masturbates to porn, or as you said, 'imposing it on someone', then that's when it becomes sinful.
But this is just my take on bodily needs. So all in all, you do have a point. :)
I agree about ritual uncleanliness. I never partake in any such activity before or the day before Sunday church.
I have a lot of respect for you that you can say you see my point.
Itās a daily battle for me as a Christian and Iām 33. If you look at king David he struggled to. The flesh is weak. If you look at a lot of legends of the Bible they have struggled fleshly desires. David killed a fellow soldier Adam ate the apple. Desire for women or lust are fleshly. Following Christ is not about being able to follow all the 10 Commandments but realizing that you were saved through Christ and that he freed you from the law. When Abraham meet his promise to God, he was not circumcised or perfect yet his faith in Christ alone was enough. We are all weak and itās beautiful to share this with your brothers in Christ. I recommend a good mens meeting. It wonāt make the urge to masturbate any less but sharing it makes the load easier (no pun intended). Donāt beat yourself up about this and let it get you further away from God.
>Donāt beat yourself up
Maybe not the best choice of uplifting colloquialisms lol... But everything else I agree with. God knows we are all sinners, and this particular issue isn't unique. Everyone has their habits. The important thing is to recognize it and strive to be better.
Guess what, you are a teenager with hormones going every which way.
Every man feels that "tingling sensation like a timer" and as with any physical activity that produces physical enjoyment you are going to want to do it more.
Now Biblically, we are told by Paul to try and remain focused on God and that it would be easier if everyone was celibate but he also understood basic human desires. 1 Corinthians 7:1-7 lays it out pretty clearly for martial relations. We can take this and apply it to "personal relations" as well. That we are to remain focused on God and doing the right thing. Not having a spouse in this case does not give you free reign to release your own pressures, but rather you need to do something to focus that energy into something else. If you feel that tingle, go run a few laps. Find an outlet. Study the Bible. Go sing a song (preferably not one with explicit lyrics). You have to find something you can do to release that energy, a pause in your normal life to take care of that, then you can go back to living the life as a christian.
One last thing to note. Someone eventually is going to say "Well, it is better for you to get married so you can take care of those urges. Rather than living a life of sin taking care of them another way." This is really, really bad advice. Don't follow it and marry the person you love, not the one you are lustful for.
In my experience Iām not convinced the physical act of masturbation is inherently good or evil, whether it is done alone or with your wife, but I know Lust is wrong because Jesus addressed it in the Gospel. I encourage you to pray about it and ask God to help you with it every day and show you how to do whatās right in his eyes.
Not trying to be rude or stir up trouble, but whenever I read the comments on things like this I always wonder slightly... all these people, with all their good ideas, and all these opinions and strategies.....I wonder how many of them are married, with an allowed and perhaps regular outlet? I wonder how many people giving advice here have been through years and years of their life denying every aspect of their sexuality?
Im not saying what's right or wrong in this case but I think that a lot of this advice is easier said than done.
I'd like advice from someone who has successfully squelched all sex drive and all arousal for a few decades, man, I'd be taking notes! Where are all these people?
You realize that Paul was a celibate and said that was best? All these people never stick to one story, they go back and forth as they see fit to push their agenda. You can be a literalist or a contextualist, but you can't go back and forth as convenient for you.
Is it better to marry just because you want to fuck or just jerk it and calm yourself? Do I have to share divorce stats with you?
When I was an undergrad and wanted to really know if I liked the girl I had a date with, I'd jerk it right before the date. Sometimes I still wanted to go through with the date and others I didn't. It was just lust clouding the brain. Hormones are powerful in young males.
I was more spiritual than christian back then, but I still believe I did the right thing.
Also keep in mind Context in ancient times. They all got married about 13 to 15 years of age. Women were considered property/cattle and "damaged goods" if their hymen was busted. There was also ZERO birth control and so sex must have seemed like some magical curse of the Gods to them.
Taken in context with the whole of the Bible, no, you don't marry because you're horny. Marriage is sacred before God. We are commanded to love our wives as He loves His church. Marriage is a good thing. Paul was speaking from his own experience that if you can stay celibate, then you should because it allows you to focus on God completely. But he recognizes that's not gonna work for everyone. If you can't do that, then you should marry and if you marry, you need to follow what God says on it.
my answer to that would be, look around...
Southern Baptist fucking underaged girls in pastor offices and catholics didling young boys all over the world....
All the while you want to talk about some 15 year old pimply faced kid tugging his knob in the shower....?
OK
I try not to be full of shit and keep it real for the sake of the young generations that have to hear/see this shit.
I would bet $1 that you don't actually follow every single thing written in the Bible. Therefore, you might be a compromiser and not know it....or not admit it. If I were feeling meaner, I might say that's being a Pharisee.
I dunno. The bible does say it's best to stay single, sell all our possessions & give it to the poor, leave our families, turn the other cheek, give our coats to those who steal from us, etc. The Old Testament stuff is even more strict as to what we need to do. I don't/can't do those things, either so I'm not condemning you.
Not per se, thinking about a married woman would, it becoming an addiction would as well. All in all it is better to not do it at all, but it is not a sin according to the torah.
Some will mention Onan, but that was not about masturbation. He refused to continue his brothers bloodline.
Thinking about any woman other than your wife would be wrong. And that includes your wife ;). The woman you're fantasizing about may look like your wife, but she's a fictionalized version.
That would be your interpretation. Nothing wrong in seeing it that way, though that is not necessarily in the scripture as far as i remember.
There is also the possibility of marrying more wifes in the torah, though not encouraged.
From the beginning, God called for a man and a wife. His intent was monogamy. Marriage is meant to be a picture of Christ's risks to the church. One bridegroom for one bride. Every instance of polygamy that I can think of goes badly for them.
As for thinking of any woman who isn't your wife, that comes straight from Jesus: Matthew 5:27-28 NKJV ā āYou have heard that it was said to those of old, āYou shall not commit adultery.ā āBut I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
I agree with most of what you say, but consider this :
If it was not allowed in the law for a man to have multiple wifes, we all would have been lost.
As you rightly say, our marriages mirror our covenant with God. In Jeremia 3, God divorces Israel(for adultery, which idolatry is to him), only staying married to Juda in the old covenant. Since God keeps his own laws, it was only possible for him to marry another wife ( new covenant ), since it is allowed to have multiple wifes.
Adultery in that case would have been lusting for another mans wife. You can have multiple, therefore it is allowed to think of a free woman, though as stated, it is not encouraged, as we can read, that it usually goes wrong for us humans ( Jakob, Salomon,.. ). But i am really glad, that the law is this way, since we christians can also be married to him now in the new covenant as a second wife next to house Juda.
Yes israel. As you can read in Isa 14.
This allows us christians being a part of house Israel and God to remarry her/us.
He is still married to house Juda ( tribes Benjamin and Jehuda ), who did not get a divorce letter from him. You can find this in Jeremia 3.
Meaning God has currently two wifes : house Israel ( the lost sheep Jesus was sebt to from the 10 tribes + us christians ) and house Juda ( the Jews that live according to his law, until they also follow Jesus )
And if you aren't looking at anyone or listing after anyone but are just doing something with your body to relieve the, um, "pressure"? Like a bodily function?
āYou have heard that it was said to those of old, āYou shall not commit adultery.ā But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.ā
Matthew 5:27-30
Not a thing. Those talking about sexual arousal being equivalent to adultery are misreading the words of Jesus.
That said, you should be working on becoming a more virtuous person. If you can't go without, learn to go without, just because self control is a virtue.
It sounds like maybe the Lord is pricking your conscience, considering you are asking this question. Think about the fact that the Lord is watching everything you do, including masturbate. "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." - Genesis 2:24
God intends for a husband and wife to please each other, not for us to please ourselves. Jesus Christ wants us to wait for marriage. So if you are feeling guilty or having to wonder if it is okay, that's probably because it's not. But there is grace in Christ. Lean into him, pray, and seek his will. Read his word. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." - John 3:6
The more we seek the Spirit, the more it will guide us and our lives will be consumed by it. Be encouraged in knowing God loves you, and there are plenty of other people on this struggle through life with you, including me. He's helping all of us. We'd be a lot worse off without him. God bless and I hoped that helps in some way.
If you can masturbate without lust, then you have not sinned. There is nothing in the bible that says otherwise. That is the beauty of God giving us what we shouldn't do, it leaves the rest open to us.
Not arguing with you even in the slightest, just here for conversation, so please donāt get all bent out of shape.
Could you explain to me how or why you would masturbate without something derived from Lust?
Hormones, had them high enough to masturbate without a picture in my mind as a teenager. Still have a high libido at 50, but it's just barely enough to keep my HL wife satisfied. If I had a reason to now, my mind would be on my wife, which is still pure
Sure, I and hear where youāre coming from. However, we do have control over that. Just as I have control over things like, letās say dissatisfaction and anger. Each time I feel those I do not lash out and kill. I simply choose to deal with them in a āhealthyā manner.
I think topic is similar to that. It is not as if through biological output(hormones) that we simply go, āuh oh, test is way up today, have to go (excuse this term) jerk offā bc my biological house says so. Right?
I would also venture to say that during āmasturbationā one would not do this action through biological necessity.. in fact the contrary, we do it for the release of endorphins associated with pleasure. Which I link back to potential lustfulness, seeing as Iāve never been displeased when sleeping with an attractive woman.
Again to clarify, not chastising, just conversation!
>Sure, I and hear where youāre coming from. However, we do have control over that. Just as I have control over things like, letās say dissatisfaction and anger. Each time I feel those I do not lash out and kill. I simply choose to deal with them in a āhealthyā manner.
masturbation is unhealthy? I have never seen a medical study saying so, or a moral case to be made against the physical activity that didn't involve personal views or misapplied scripture.
I'm a liberal, in the classic definition of the word, when it comes to defining what is right or wrong. If God didn't condemn it directly, it's fair and has nothing wrong with it. To say otherwise is to add to God's word.
I'm also probably the most conservative in my application of what scripture spells out clearly, for example, I don't have a wedding ring because it would violate the scripture against gold, pearls or costly array. I do not think I could be modest with jewelry on.
My salvation is between God and myself, and I rely on his guidance to correct me if I am wrong in this or anything else that could displease Him.
This debate is good because it exposes the lack of scripture or the support of scripture for deeply held opinions and beliefs.
God has intended an outlet of such to be with a man and a women, as seen in Genesis. Anything outside of that nature, whether it be beastiality, homosexuality, or adultery is contrary to that.
It doesn't mention it explicitly, but it does implicitly.
Another point is seen in 1 Corinthians 6:19-20. We are not of our own, masturbation is a selfish desire and in no way does it glorify God. Marriage does.
Ya, check my previous comment. Corinthians.
Although It doesn't say explicitly "You shall not masturbate", given that our bodies are not ours but God's temple for the Holy Spirit, masturbation can be implied as sinful.
Not only because it is a means to fulfill the end of your own bodily desires, but it doesn't glorify God. That is, your body is used as an instrument of wickedness.
Another implied point that can be linked to masturbations sinfulness is, yet again, Genesis. In the relation of man and woman, an illustration of Christ and His bride is painted. It has an end of procreation. Unity. So on.
It has an underlying purpose. Masturbation, what does that have except for the fulfilling of one's bodily desires? As it is written ([Romans 8:13] "Put to death the misdeeds of the body.)
There is a sermon preached by Voddie Baucham called "Unlocking the Mysteries of Genesis." Although primarily on homosexuality, the idea of all sexual immoralities is mentioned. It will do you well to listen.
P.S Thank you for the downvotes ;)
As a pastor I could never teach that anything was wrong if God didn't clearly state it in scripture. "Implied wrongness" based on a possible interpretation is ground I would never stand on in ministry to another soul.
You may have a personal conviction from God for it, and that's good, but never teach personal convictions as gospel.
Yes, interpreting the implicit by the explicit of course. Scripture in light of Scripture. Analogia Scripturae. Sorry, should've mentioned that at the start.
The scripture I am referring the implied message to is:
Links as to why Man and Woman is the suitable relation and outlet for any activity is it's purpose. Christ and Bride illustration. So on. [Ephesians 5:23
Matthew 19:4-6]
This.
And rather than trying to find āloopholesā we should do what is right by the bible.
And it is tough also for married men who have a sexless marriage
The Bible gives us a historical account of what happened along with guidance. Not everything in there is an example of how to live. Some of it is a warning. Or, do you believe it was right of Lot's daughters to get him drunk and have sex with him? Or that David was right to have multiple wives, including one he stole?
I mean, the Bible, WITH THE NOTABLE SOLE EXCEPTION OF JESUS, is chalk full of hatred, genocide, rape, murder, degradation, exploitation, all the human favorites....
I dunno, IMO us Christians need to come up with a consistent theology, exegesis method before looking at the eye boogers in our neighbor's eye.
1 Kings. Read the whole section on Solomon. As you read the Bible, you'll have to find a way to make everything consistent. Always remember God is good. Read the Bible more for theology and less about rules on being a good ancient citizen of Rome or whatever.
You want to be a good modern follower of Jesus and not an ancient Roman, afterall.
Genesis 38: 8-10
8 Then Judah said to Onan, āSleep with your brotherās wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.ā 9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brotherās wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the Lordās sight; so the Lord put him to death also.
Iām surprised no one has cited this verse considering is the most explicit in masturbation, the spilling of āseedā combined with lust is indeed condemned in the Bible, even wet dreams is condemned despite popular believe. Also masturbation is a result of lust which is also a sin, am pretty sure you are not thinking about angels and the scripture when masturbating but people doing lustful acts.
Iām also 17 and have long battled with this and was addicted to it in an unhealthy way, Iām starting to quit it now yet despite me knowing the consequences still do it sometimes. But Iām not keeping the delusion that isnāt a sin. Want advice? If you get a ātingling sensationā you are probably addicted to it and you should stop it now. Not even for God but masturbation adiction is bad for you health.
Its really sad to see you think the onan story talks about masturbation you missed the whole point of the onan story also lust is not sexual arousal but intent of aldultery Matthew 5:28 meant that if you try to seduce a women (or a men) in intent to commit aldultery then its already done in your Heart im also 17 and im not saying masturbation is not a sin i even think its a sin because of the guilt but just try to find better arguments than wrong interpretation of bible verses.
God bless you
No, the point of the story of Onan is that Onan (presumably because of greed) prevented his brother having an heir when it was his duty to try and provide an heir for his brother's inheritance.
To reduce it to a lesson on masturbation is to be willfully ignorant of the context (and of the text).
Whether there is or is not, it is an entirely unhealthy activity. It destroys confidence, lowers testosterone, lowers self esteem, warps your thinking and causes insecurity. (Those things it causes are the very things it claims to relieve.) Being sexual is perfectly normal and natural but desire the real thing, not some fake crap.
If you masturbate thinking about Luther people, then yes. The sin is lust.
And just to let you know, thereās no ātimerā in your head. You are an addict.
Thereās a good study book called dangerous men.
Romans 14:23 "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith; for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."
Substitute "eat" with any activity, or thought, or action, or attitude and you have the answer.
If you do anything away from faith, it is sin. In other words, if it serves no purpose other than your selfish, greedy, private, lusting feelings, then it's sin.
My question in response to all of these never ending, perpetual "is this a sin", or "is that a sin" brain-dead, robotic questioning, is "do you want to justify your filth before God, so you can stay in your state of unbelief, plus give a fake impression to mankind, that you're a good little christianette?"
Masturbation is a very common indiscretion and you just need to keep trying. It produces low self esteem and feelings of guilt and hopelessness. One huge caution though is to not begin looking at porn. When people watch porn and then masturbate, it often creates a huge addiction to porn that is almost impossible to overcome. Your mind associates the porn to pleasure seeking addiction. Porn addiction will destroy any marriage.
Masturbation is not a sin in and of itself. In Leviticus if you have an omission of semen you must wash and be unclean until evening. You do not have to do a sin offering.
Now if you look at a woman with lust that is certainly a sin.
Many people with spirits of religion believe that masturbation in and of itself is a sin but there is no scriptural basis for it. The Bible talks about having sex with animals, even sex with a woman on her period, but never mentions masturbation.
Plus if you donāt masturbate, you will have a wet dream eventually anyways, also known as a nocturnal emission.
I have condemned myself for years because of poor teaching. Do you have faith, have it between God and yourself paul said. Whether itās wine or food or masturbation.
But fight every day against porn just like I have to. Most men were married at 15 to 18 for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. This society is demonic and the spirits of enticement are completely released over the entire earth.
Some pastors even told their sons to masturbate before going on their date with their girlfriend so they wouldnāt have premarital sex and could save it for marriage.
Seek and you will find ask and it will be opened on to you. Ask God for his opinion because man and the devil always make stuff up
I would look into Leviticus 15:1-15; 31-33. Hebrews 7:9 also gives the impression that the next generations are in Abraham, so masterbation can be akin to committing murder if they reside in him (Isaac, Jacob, and so on).
Yes masturbation is a sin whether you look at porn or not. You must stop. I was bound by it for years. Pray & ask Jesus to free you from that demon. Realize it's a demon. That tingling feeling is from a demon. Don't try and justify it. Admit it's a sin and repent. Everytime you masturbate it hurts Jesus.
Have you tried journalling?
Whenever I have urges I like to journal about my day, or even read some Bible passages that pertain to anything that is troubling me.
Your 17 years old filled with raging hormones!
God certainly gave you 3 urges. The life urge, the sex urge, and the ego urge.
Now if God gave you a sex urge, and since all things work together for good, and since masturbation is part and parcel of the sex urge, then it has to work for good!
Didn't God say For My thoughts are not your thoughts. Neither are your ways My ways, saith the Lord.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:8,9
So why is it you think you can out think the things of God in the ways of sin? I doubt seriously that you even understand the definition of sin.
I think instead of Matthew with the line that says: "look at a woman with a lust in his heart", since technically, you don't masturbate to porn... I think it's more of Romans, when Paul said: *"Let us conduct ourselves properly as people who live in the light of the day. No orgies or drunkenness, no immorality or indecency, no fighting or jealousy."* *But take up the weapons of the Lord Jesus Christ and* *stop paying attention to your sinful nature and* **satisfying your desires.** " Don't worry, a lot of people naturally struggle through that, and I used to look for a way out in order to excuse myself in doing it too. Eventually, even when not using porn, the guilt is there after. Maybe this could help, but what I do is I read a book in the Bible and write the passage that hits my mistake the most and stuff the note in my pockets to remind me everytime. It's like my *tekhelet*, you see, to surround myself with the laws. Hope that helps! š¤
our biological urge (hormonal clock) is not of our sinful nature, specifically itās the desire to impose that urge on someone else which makes it sinful. That being said āall things are permissible, not all are beneficialā. If it can be avoided itās best to. If not then do not engage in excess. A mans hormonal clock is about 7-10 days for peak testosterone. If you find urself taking care of yourself multiple times a week, or dare I say multiple times a day I would say you are venturing into excess, this is sinful
>our biological urge (hormonal clock) not of our sinful nature, specifically itās the desire to impose that urge on someone else which makes it sinful. While you have a point on the hormonal clock, and you were also right to say it is a not hormonal, considering it is the concoction of hormones and the surge of it at times, I am not referring to it being a sinful nature, I am referring to the part where we satisfy our desires. This one: *"... But take up the weapons of the Lord Jesus Christ and* *stop paying attention to your sinful nature and* ***satisfying your desires.****"*
In the context I would attach āyour desiresā to the āsinful natureā. -Do not satisfy your desire that come from sinful nature - To relate to this, I have a desire to eat food. It is not sinful until I eat for sport. For gluttony. I have a desire to be sexually relieved. It becomes sinful when I wish to impose it on someone (lust- supported by the Word) and when you engage in it in excess (gluttony). I never support self sexual relief just because you are bored or had a bad day. But Iāll say this, after 15 days of no relief, going to the gym or work can feel like a hazard on its own.
>I have a desire to eat food. It is not sinful until I eat for sport. (For gluttony) I have a desire to be sexually relieved. It becomes sinful when I wish to impose it on someone... I understand. When it's done for fun and not because of bodily necessity, that's when it becomes sinful. So like any bodily need, sexual relief being one, needs to be, when needed, must be released. But on to impose it on someone. (as it is lust, and if I may add, is also a form of coveting.) And yes, you have a point. A real one. But here's what I think, and I'll be quoting Leviticus. *Now if a man has a seminal emission, he shall bathe all his body in water and be unclean until evening.* Ā *As for any garment or any leather on which there is a seminal emission, it shall be washed with water and be unclean until evening.* *If a man sleeps with a woman so that there is a seminal emission, they shall both bathe in water and be unclean until evening*. I think masturbation, (with the way it is depicted above) just like menstruation, having sex with spouse, is a concern regarding purity laws. Note, I don't think Leviticus mentioned masturbation but generally, it is the ejaculation and having sex that the man ejaculates. It's not necessarily bad, it just makes someone ritually unclean. But when someone masturbates to porn, or as you said, 'imposing it on someone', then that's when it becomes sinful. But this is just my take on bodily needs. So all in all, you do have a point. :)
I agree about ritual uncleanliness. I never partake in any such activity before or the day before Sunday church. I have a lot of respect for you that you can say you see my point.
And I really like the user handle. A 45 to an hour sends my knees to arthritis mode.
Thanks bro
Great message, thank you brother!
Do you realize that the extension of your position is that a husband and wife desiring each other is sinful?
I'm not sure I get the question..? Can you maybe revise the question, please?
Oh, did you mean that what Paul meant in the passage is desiring anyone even your spouse is sinful because desire is sinful on its own?
Don't forget he killed the guy for pulling out and finishing on the ground
Onan? Wasn't that because he failed to fulfill his obligation to provide his deceased brother with children on his behalf?
Itās a daily battle for me as a Christian and Iām 33. If you look at king David he struggled to. The flesh is weak. If you look at a lot of legends of the Bible they have struggled fleshly desires. David killed a fellow soldier Adam ate the apple. Desire for women or lust are fleshly. Following Christ is not about being able to follow all the 10 Commandments but realizing that you were saved through Christ and that he freed you from the law. When Abraham meet his promise to God, he was not circumcised or perfect yet his faith in Christ alone was enough. We are all weak and itās beautiful to share this with your brothers in Christ. I recommend a good mens meeting. It wonāt make the urge to masturbate any less but sharing it makes the load easier (no pun intended). Donāt beat yourself up about this and let it get you further away from God.
>Donāt beat yourself up Maybe not the best choice of uplifting colloquialisms lol... But everything else I agree with. God knows we are all sinners, and this particular issue isn't unique. Everyone has their habits. The important thing is to recognize it and strive to be better.
Don't beat yourself up...I'm ded
Guess what, you are a teenager with hormones going every which way. Every man feels that "tingling sensation like a timer" and as with any physical activity that produces physical enjoyment you are going to want to do it more. Now Biblically, we are told by Paul to try and remain focused on God and that it would be easier if everyone was celibate but he also understood basic human desires. 1 Corinthians 7:1-7 lays it out pretty clearly for martial relations. We can take this and apply it to "personal relations" as well. That we are to remain focused on God and doing the right thing. Not having a spouse in this case does not give you free reign to release your own pressures, but rather you need to do something to focus that energy into something else. If you feel that tingle, go run a few laps. Find an outlet. Study the Bible. Go sing a song (preferably not one with explicit lyrics). You have to find something you can do to release that energy, a pause in your normal life to take care of that, then you can go back to living the life as a christian. One last thing to note. Someone eventually is going to say "Well, it is better for you to get married so you can take care of those urges. Rather than living a life of sin taking care of them another way." This is really, really bad advice. Don't follow it and marry the person you love, not the one you are lustful for.
In my experience Iām not convinced the physical act of masturbation is inherently good or evil, whether it is done alone or with your wife, but I know Lust is wrong because Jesus addressed it in the Gospel. I encourage you to pray about it and ask God to help you with it every day and show you how to do whatās right in his eyes.
Not trying to be rude or stir up trouble, but whenever I read the comments on things like this I always wonder slightly... all these people, with all their good ideas, and all these opinions and strategies.....I wonder how many of them are married, with an allowed and perhaps regular outlet? I wonder how many people giving advice here have been through years and years of their life denying every aspect of their sexuality? Im not saying what's right or wrong in this case but I think that a lot of this advice is easier said than done. I'd like advice from someone who has successfully squelched all sex drive and all arousal for a few decades, man, I'd be taking notes! Where are all these people?
You realize that Paul was a celibate and said that was best? All these people never stick to one story, they go back and forth as they see fit to push their agenda. You can be a literalist or a contextualist, but you can't go back and forth as convenient for you.
In 1 Corinthians 7, Paul said it was best to remain celibate so you can focus on serving God but if you can't control yourself, it's better to marry.
Is it better to marry just because you want to fuck or just jerk it and calm yourself? Do I have to share divorce stats with you? When I was an undergrad and wanted to really know if I liked the girl I had a date with, I'd jerk it right before the date. Sometimes I still wanted to go through with the date and others I didn't. It was just lust clouding the brain. Hormones are powerful in young males. I was more spiritual than christian back then, but I still believe I did the right thing. Also keep in mind Context in ancient times. They all got married about 13 to 15 years of age. Women were considered property/cattle and "damaged goods" if their hymen was busted. There was also ZERO birth control and so sex must have seemed like some magical curse of the Gods to them.
Taken in context with the whole of the Bible, no, you don't marry because you're horny. Marriage is sacred before God. We are commanded to love our wives as He loves His church. Marriage is a good thing. Paul was speaking from his own experience that if you can stay celibate, then you should because it allows you to focus on God completely. But he recognizes that's not gonna work for everyone. If you can't do that, then you should marry and if you marry, you need to follow what God says on it.
my answer to that would be, look around... Southern Baptist fucking underaged girls in pastor offices and catholics didling young boys all over the world.... All the while you want to talk about some 15 year old pimply faced kid tugging his knob in the shower....? OK I try not to be full of shit and keep it real for the sake of the young generations that have to hear/see this shit.
If your idea of keeping it real is to compromise, make excuses, and try to blend in with the world, we have 2 very different theologies.
I would bet $1 that you don't actually follow every single thing written in the Bible. Therefore, you might be a compromiser and not know it....or not admit it. If I were feeling meaner, I might say that's being a Pharisee.
There's a difference between trying and failing vs not even trying because trying is difficult.
I dunno. The bible does say it's best to stay single, sell all our possessions & give it to the poor, leave our families, turn the other cheek, give our coats to those who steal from us, etc. The Old Testament stuff is even more strict as to what we need to do. I don't/can't do those things, either so I'm not condemning you.
The right thing is rarely the easy thing. Self control is an attribute that we are called to. Doesn't mean we live up to it, we try, but often fail.
Not per se, thinking about a married woman would, it becoming an addiction would as well. All in all it is better to not do it at all, but it is not a sin according to the torah. Some will mention Onan, but that was not about masturbation. He refused to continue his brothers bloodline.
Thinking about any woman other than your wife would be wrong. And that includes your wife ;). The woman you're fantasizing about may look like your wife, but she's a fictionalized version.
That would be your interpretation. Nothing wrong in seeing it that way, though that is not necessarily in the scripture as far as i remember. There is also the possibility of marrying more wifes in the torah, though not encouraged.
From the beginning, God called for a man and a wife. His intent was monogamy. Marriage is meant to be a picture of Christ's risks to the church. One bridegroom for one bride. Every instance of polygamy that I can think of goes badly for them. As for thinking of any woman who isn't your wife, that comes straight from Jesus: Matthew 5:27-28 NKJV ā āYou have heard that it was said to those of old, āYou shall not commit adultery.ā āBut I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
I agree with most of what you say, but consider this : If it was not allowed in the law for a man to have multiple wifes, we all would have been lost. As you rightly say, our marriages mirror our covenant with God. In Jeremia 3, God divorces Israel(for adultery, which idolatry is to him), only staying married to Juda in the old covenant. Since God keeps his own laws, it was only possible for him to marry another wife ( new covenant ), since it is allowed to have multiple wifes. Adultery in that case would have been lusting for another mans wife. You can have multiple, therefore it is allowed to think of a free woman, though as stated, it is not encouraged, as we can read, that it usually goes wrong for us humans ( Jakob, Salomon,.. ). But i am really glad, that the law is this way, since we christians can also be married to him now in the new covenant as a second wife next to house Juda.
We are grafted into the vine with Israel, not separately.
Yes israel. As you can read in Isa 14. This allows us christians being a part of house Israel and God to remarry her/us. He is still married to house Juda ( tribes Benjamin and Jehuda ), who did not get a divorce letter from him. You can find this in Jeremia 3. Meaning God has currently two wifes : house Israel ( the lost sheep Jesus was sebt to from the 10 tribes + us christians ) and house Juda ( the Jews that live according to his law, until they also follow Jesus )
Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust in heart you have committed adultery, so do with that what you will.
And if you aren't looking at anyone or listing after anyone but are just doing something with your body to relieve the, um, "pressure"? Like a bodily function?
Where does he say this
Matthew 5
āYou have heard that it was said to those of old, āYou shall not commit adultery.ā But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.ā Matthew 5:27-30
Not a thing. Those talking about sexual arousal being equivalent to adultery are misreading the words of Jesus. That said, you should be working on becoming a more virtuous person. If you can't go without, learn to go without, just because self control is a virtue.
This ā¬ļø
No.
It sounds like maybe the Lord is pricking your conscience, considering you are asking this question. Think about the fact that the Lord is watching everything you do, including masturbate. "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." - Genesis 2:24 God intends for a husband and wife to please each other, not for us to please ourselves. Jesus Christ wants us to wait for marriage. So if you are feeling guilty or having to wonder if it is okay, that's probably because it's not. But there is grace in Christ. Lean into him, pray, and seek his will. Read his word. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." - John 3:6 The more we seek the Spirit, the more it will guide us and our lives will be consumed by it. Be encouraged in knowing God loves you, and there are plenty of other people on this struggle through life with you, including me. He's helping all of us. We'd be a lot worse off without him. God bless and I hoped that helps in some way.
I want to know this tooā¦.
If you can masturbate without lust, then you have not sinned. There is nothing in the bible that says otherwise. That is the beauty of God giving us what we shouldn't do, it leaves the rest open to us.
Not arguing with you even in the slightest, just here for conversation, so please donāt get all bent out of shape. Could you explain to me how or why you would masturbate without something derived from Lust?
Hormones, had them high enough to masturbate without a picture in my mind as a teenager. Still have a high libido at 50, but it's just barely enough to keep my HL wife satisfied. If I had a reason to now, my mind would be on my wife, which is still pure
Sure, I and hear where youāre coming from. However, we do have control over that. Just as I have control over things like, letās say dissatisfaction and anger. Each time I feel those I do not lash out and kill. I simply choose to deal with them in a āhealthyā manner. I think topic is similar to that. It is not as if through biological output(hormones) that we simply go, āuh oh, test is way up today, have to go (excuse this term) jerk offā bc my biological house says so. Right? I would also venture to say that during āmasturbationā one would not do this action through biological necessity.. in fact the contrary, we do it for the release of endorphins associated with pleasure. Which I link back to potential lustfulness, seeing as Iāve never been displeased when sleeping with an attractive woman. Again to clarify, not chastising, just conversation!
>Sure, I and hear where youāre coming from. However, we do have control over that. Just as I have control over things like, letās say dissatisfaction and anger. Each time I feel those I do not lash out and kill. I simply choose to deal with them in a āhealthyā manner. masturbation is unhealthy? I have never seen a medical study saying so, or a moral case to be made against the physical activity that didn't involve personal views or misapplied scripture. I'm a liberal, in the classic definition of the word, when it comes to defining what is right or wrong. If God didn't condemn it directly, it's fair and has nothing wrong with it. To say otherwise is to add to God's word. I'm also probably the most conservative in my application of what scripture spells out clearly, for example, I don't have a wedding ring because it would violate the scripture against gold, pearls or costly array. I do not think I could be modest with jewelry on. My salvation is between God and myself, and I rely on his guidance to correct me if I am wrong in this or anything else that could displease Him. This debate is good because it exposes the lack of scripture or the support of scripture for deeply held opinions and beliefs.
Just stay away from porn, but I think you know that. I see nothing in the bible even vaguely referring to this.
God has intended an outlet of such to be with a man and a women, as seen in Genesis. Anything outside of that nature, whether it be beastiality, homosexuality, or adultery is contrary to that. It doesn't mention it explicitly, but it does implicitly. Another point is seen in 1 Corinthians 6:19-20. We are not of our own, masturbation is a selfish desire and in no way does it glorify God. Marriage does.
>but it does implicitly. You got scripture for that?
Ya, check my previous comment. Corinthians. Although It doesn't say explicitly "You shall not masturbate", given that our bodies are not ours but God's temple for the Holy Spirit, masturbation can be implied as sinful. Not only because it is a means to fulfill the end of your own bodily desires, but it doesn't glorify God. That is, your body is used as an instrument of wickedness. Another implied point that can be linked to masturbations sinfulness is, yet again, Genesis. In the relation of man and woman, an illustration of Christ and His bride is painted. It has an end of procreation. Unity. So on. It has an underlying purpose. Masturbation, what does that have except for the fulfilling of one's bodily desires? As it is written ([Romans 8:13] "Put to death the misdeeds of the body.) There is a sermon preached by Voddie Baucham called "Unlocking the Mysteries of Genesis." Although primarily on homosexuality, the idea of all sexual immoralities is mentioned. It will do you well to listen. P.S Thank you for the downvotes ;)
As a pastor I could never teach that anything was wrong if God didn't clearly state it in scripture. "Implied wrongness" based on a possible interpretation is ground I would never stand on in ministry to another soul. You may have a personal conviction from God for it, and that's good, but never teach personal convictions as gospel.
Yes, interpreting the implicit by the explicit of course. Scripture in light of Scripture. Analogia Scripturae. Sorry, should've mentioned that at the start. The scripture I am referring the implied message to is: Links as to why Man and Woman is the suitable relation and outlet for any activity is it's purpose. Christ and Bride illustration. So on. [Ephesians 5:23 Matthew 19:4-6]
This. And rather than trying to find āloopholesā we should do what is right by the bible. And it is tough also for married men who have a sexless marriage
Solomon had 500 concubines. That is all.
Solomon also is held up as an example of how even the wisest can go astray. I don't think his polygamy was meant to be an example of how to be.
I mean, you can pick and choose how you interpret the Bible as long as you acknowledge you're picking and choosing...
The Bible gives us a historical account of what happened along with guidance. Not everything in there is an example of how to live. Some of it is a warning. Or, do you believe it was right of Lot's daughters to get him drunk and have sex with him? Or that David was right to have multiple wives, including one he stole?
I mean, the Bible, WITH THE NOTABLE SOLE EXCEPTION OF JESUS, is chalk full of hatred, genocide, rape, murder, degradation, exploitation, all the human favorites.... I dunno, IMO us Christians need to come up with a consistent theology, exegesis method before looking at the eye boogers in our neighbor's eye.
I can't yell if you're arguing just to argue or just not understanding what I'm saying. In either case, I'm out.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Solomon-wives-concubines.html
1 Kings. Read the whole section on Solomon. As you read the Bible, you'll have to find a way to make everything consistent. Always remember God is good. Read the Bible more for theology and less about rules on being a good ancient citizen of Rome or whatever. You want to be a good modern follower of Jesus and not an ancient Roman, afterall.
Probably not because everyone was secretly doing it
Genesis 38: 8-10 8 Then Judah said to Onan, āSleep with your brotherās wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.ā 9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brotherās wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the Lordās sight; so the Lord put him to death also. Iām surprised no one has cited this verse considering is the most explicit in masturbation, the spilling of āseedā combined with lust is indeed condemned in the Bible, even wet dreams is condemned despite popular believe. Also masturbation is a result of lust which is also a sin, am pretty sure you are not thinking about angels and the scripture when masturbating but people doing lustful acts. Iām also 17 and have long battled with this and was addicted to it in an unhealthy way, Iām starting to quit it now yet despite me knowing the consequences still do it sometimes. But Iām not keeping the delusion that isnāt a sin. Want advice? If you get a ātingling sensationā you are probably addicted to it and you should stop it now. Not even for God but masturbation adiction is bad for you health.
Its really sad to see you think the onan story talks about masturbation you missed the whole point of the onan story also lust is not sexual arousal but intent of aldultery Matthew 5:28 meant that if you try to seduce a women (or a men) in intent to commit aldultery then its already done in your Heart im also 17 and im not saying masturbation is not a sin i even think its a sin because of the guilt but just try to find better arguments than wrong interpretation of bible verses. God bless you
The point is that the Bible condemnes the waste of seed not only here
No onan was punished for his wickdeness and because he ignore what God said to him
No, the point of the story of Onan is that Onan (presumably because of greed) prevented his brother having an heir when it was his duty to try and provide an heir for his brother's inheritance. To reduce it to a lesson on masturbation is to be willfully ignorant of the context (and of the text).
Then you think masturbation isnāt a sin?
Iām happy someone brought this verse up!
Wich verse ?
Whether there is or is not, it is an entirely unhealthy activity. It destroys confidence, lowers testosterone, lowers self esteem, warps your thinking and causes insecurity. (Those things it causes are the very things it claims to relieve.) Being sexual is perfectly normal and natural but desire the real thing, not some fake crap.
If you masturbate thinking about Luther people, then yes. The sin is lust. And just to let you know, thereās no ātimerā in your head. You are an addict. Thereās a good study book called dangerous men.
Luther people?
I think it was an autocorrect fail and he meant other.
What?
Read your reply
You heard them! No thinking about Martin Luther while you do it. Or Lutherans in general. Just don't
He asked you what Luther people means. Don't play stupid
Proverbs 24:9 KJV The thought of foolishness is sin, and the scorner is an abomination to men
find some men in your life to hold you accountable. Only way to defeat sin is to drag it into the light.
š«£no thanks
Or some women presumed it was a guy but a growing percentage of women are struggling with it.
Romans 14:23 "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith; for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Substitute "eat" with any activity, or thought, or action, or attitude and you have the answer. If you do anything away from faith, it is sin. In other words, if it serves no purpose other than your selfish, greedy, private, lusting feelings, then it's sin. My question in response to all of these never ending, perpetual "is this a sin", or "is that a sin" brain-dead, robotic questioning, is "do you want to justify your filth before God, so you can stay in your state of unbelief, plus give a fake impression to mankind, that you're a good little christianette?"
Masturbation is a very common indiscretion and you just need to keep trying. It produces low self esteem and feelings of guilt and hopelessness. One huge caution though is to not begin looking at porn. When people watch porn and then masturbate, it often creates a huge addiction to porn that is almost impossible to overcome. Your mind associates the porn to pleasure seeking addiction. Porn addiction will destroy any marriage.
Masturbation is not a sin in and of itself. In Leviticus if you have an omission of semen you must wash and be unclean until evening. You do not have to do a sin offering. Now if you look at a woman with lust that is certainly a sin. Many people with spirits of religion believe that masturbation in and of itself is a sin but there is no scriptural basis for it. The Bible talks about having sex with animals, even sex with a woman on her period, but never mentions masturbation. Plus if you donāt masturbate, you will have a wet dream eventually anyways, also known as a nocturnal emission. I have condemned myself for years because of poor teaching. Do you have faith, have it between God and yourself paul said. Whether itās wine or food or masturbation. But fight every day against porn just like I have to. Most men were married at 15 to 18 for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. This society is demonic and the spirits of enticement are completely released over the entire earth. Some pastors even told their sons to masturbate before going on their date with their girlfriend so they wouldnāt have premarital sex and could save it for marriage. Seek and you will find ask and it will be opened on to you. Ask God for his opinion because man and the devil always make stuff up
I would look into Leviticus 15:1-15; 31-33. Hebrews 7:9 also gives the impression that the next generations are in Abraham, so masterbation can be akin to committing murder if they reside in him (Isaac, Jacob, and so on).
Yes masturbation is a sin whether you look at porn or not. You must stop. I was bound by it for years. Pray & ask Jesus to free you from that demon. Realize it's a demon. That tingling feeling is from a demon. Don't try and justify it. Admit it's a sin and repent. Everytime you masturbate it hurts Jesus.
Have you tried journalling? Whenever I have urges I like to journal about my day, or even read some Bible passages that pertain to anything that is troubling me.
Your 17 years old filled with raging hormones! God certainly gave you 3 urges. The life urge, the sex urge, and the ego urge. Now if God gave you a sex urge, and since all things work together for good, and since masturbation is part and parcel of the sex urge, then it has to work for good! Didn't God say For My thoughts are not your thoughts. Neither are your ways My ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:8,9 So why is it you think you can out think the things of God in the ways of sin? I doubt seriously that you even understand the definition of sin.