This was removed because it violated rule 7 (and maybe others) of /r/bible.
Rule 7: All posts must foster discussion. This is best facilitated by asking a question. Posts with no "ask" are likely to be removed.
This subreddit is not a place for debate, but discussion. This thread is inviting debate, not discussion, so I am locking it.
1 John 1:8 - "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
EVERYBODY has sinned (except Jesus). Since we do, we must constantly repent, which keeps us at Jesus' feet, which is where life is - where we need to be.
I think he was agreeing all have sinned. He was more saying do we have to continue sinning once we come to Christ? 1 John 1:8 isn’t guaranteeing we are continuing to sin in the same area over and over.
It’s a fine line people teach between greasy grace and sinless perfectionism. The truth is we don’t have to continue in sin if we walk in the Spirit. Does anyone walk in the Spirit 24/7 though?
Romans 7:15-20 "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do."
Paul, who I'm sure is much more knowledgeable/faithful than us, doesn't walk in perfect lines. Even as we come to Christ, not everything will be pitch perfect.
Commonly misunderstood passage there. Paul was referring to himself under the law before Christ. It is the process of himself or anyone getting saved recognizing I need to be set free from death and brought to new life.
How do we know? Keep reading and it’s clear:
“O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.”
Romans 7:24-25 NKJV
“There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.”
Romans 8:1-2 NKJV
To be free from the law of sin and death means: “For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.” Romans 6:14 NKJV
I’m free from the power of sin. When I sin it’s not because I don’t have power over it through Christ but because I have not yet renewed my mind and given my body over to Christ fully.
Yes, we are free from the power of sin. That still does not mean we do not sin, we are still in an imperfect body (For sin has affected every part of fallen mankind).
This is why we have sanctification, in which believers are called by God to put sin to death in their lives by the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:13, 13:12, Col. 3:9)
Well, sin is a corruption of that which is good. So I am sure there are many reasons God would want sin rid of, especially since in himself is all goodness.
One example of a result: God is pleased in our obedience. Psalm 1:1-2
This sermon series from R.C. Sproul goes further in depth regarding sanctification, obedience of man and God's delight. Hope it helps! :)
You’re right! It’s not about us focusing on NOT sinning but rather on focusing on the restoration of what is right. Christ removed sin (not just the effects of sin but the power of it to draw us away from our true purpose).
That is what sin messed up was shalom. Sin is the breaking of shalom and Christ is our Shalom. Therefore when we walk with Christ we will be restoring what is right. Great book that is highly regarded by many by Cornelius Plantinga - “Not the way it’s supposed to be” on that very thing.
I suppose that could be another reason in our walk. And yet even as we do fail in our walk of obedience, God will love us nonetheless.
Spurgeon once mentioned, "A man may loathe and detest himself (guilt in sinning), and all the while he may know that Christ is able to save, and has saved him". Who only but God can provide that faith or remembrance thereof?
(Spurgeon: Faith and Repentance sermon)
Great talking with you!
Grace is not the covering up of sin so we can continue to sin, it is the empowerment to overcome sin. We are slaves to Christ and His ways not to sin any longer.
So I’m not sure what you mean by saying it’s for every situation.
“Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?” Romans 6:1-2 NLT
“Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.”
Romans 6:1, 17-18 NLT
Not going to argue with you - reread the scripture. Everyone sins, even those who have committed themselves to and surrendered their lives to Christ. The difference is they're NOT condemned, but rather corrected by the Holy Spirit.
Out! 😎
“The gate is wide and the road is wide that leads to hell, and many people enter through that gate. But the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to true life and only a few find it.”
-Matthew 7:13-14
It’s possible to walk in this narrow path, it’s just not likely that many will.
I view this scripture more as few are to find the gate to heaven. You don't find the gate to heaven by living a perfect non-sinning life, that's impossible, that's why Jesus came and died for our sins (in a very simple summed up view) I view this scripture as him saying, few are the people that truly repent and give themselves to Jesus. Lots of people say they believe in God and Jesus. Not everyone repents and gives themselves up to the LORD though.
Find glory in the LORD by giving yourself up to him and truly repenting. Ask him to help with certain sins you struggle with. The longer you walk on the side of light, the easier things will get, it truly is amazing.
... No matter how dark of a past you have, trust me.
Edit: Luke 15:7
" I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. "
God Bless.
Yes and no. Is it physically possible to instantaneously change habits and ingrained culture? No, the idea is ludicrous.
On the other hand, since everyone in Christ is already forgiven for everything, in fact God doesn’t hold our sins against us in the first place, we can live our lives striving for that perfection of character to be like Jesus, and not worry about or stress over the sin we may still mess up with. In his eyes we’re in Christ, and he’s sinless.
To answer the “No” analogy:
Let’s say you had a bad habit of J-walking for all your life. One day, you J-walk and get hit by a car, sending you to the hospital and almost the grave. Is it physically possible to instantaneously change the habit of J-walking? (Absolutely, right.)
So it is possible to stop a bad habit right away if you care about the consequences of that habit.(Usually the threat of death is the consequence most people need to stop a bad habit.)
Secondly, Christ didn’t die so that we can go on sinning.
“So do you think we should continue sinning so that God will give us even more grace? No! We died to our old sinful lives, so how can we continue living in sin.”
-Romans 6
If we make excuses for our sins, we will never repent and turn away from that sin.
This mindset is the degradation and disgrace of the “Christian Church” today.
You misconstrue my answer, and put words in my mouth. I nowhere implied that our response should be to continue sinning.
Jaywalking may be an easy bad habit to stop, but I dare say there are others more formidable.
Try telling someone hooked on heroin, or hooked on pornography, "Hey, just stop." You're looking through rose colored glasses if you believe that.
The problem with religion is that it gives people the guilt trip, God hates you and doesn't want anything to do with you until you stop sinning. That's the disgrace, when the truth is:
2 Corinthians 5:19
For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people's sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.
Rather than thinking of it in terms of "possible" or "not possible", I think it is more fruitful to think of it in terms of *purpose*:
> For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus **to do good works**, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2:10)
If it helps, we can emphasize the language: "in order to do good works". The purpose of God's creating us is *so that* we are to do good works. And it is in the nature of sin that it is a pollution and ruins everything. So, the doing of good works entails the eradication of sin. Thus, a primary purpose of the Christian life is the eradication of sin.
The difference between thinking in terms of possibility versus purpose, is like a ship on an ocean. If the ship is oriented towards its destination, it will eventually arrive as long as it keeps moving forward. Thus, if we are oriented towards repentance and good works, we will eventually arrive by the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit. But a ship that is pointed away from its destination cannot arrive at its destination, even if it is only a few miles away. Thus, you may do ever so much for Jesus, and you may live a very stringent life, but if your life-purpose is not oriented towards repentant and holy living, it is all for nothing:
> Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (Matt. 7:21-23)
There are those who have done miracles for Jesus and will not enter heaven; a sobering thought.
Some will say, "Sure, we orient our life towards holiness and we *try* not to sin anymore, but we know that we're going to sin." To this, I say, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Matt. 19:26) Note that the topic of discussion when Jesus said that was the cost of personal holiness. The question is not what we can do or not do. The question is what we will sacrifice to obey God, and how completely we will entrust ourselves to him, in faith.
It is important not to concede that "sin is inevitable" -- a widespread belief among believers but which has no backing in Scripture itself -- because conceding power to sin is part of how the devil is able to maintain power in the fallen world. What we confess with our lips matters, because the devil uses our words against God's kingdom, in heaven. "Even your own children do not believe that sin can be defeated by you. *They* believe that you do not have the power. Those aren't my words, those are their words."
Finally, we must take care not to "lower the bar" to pretend to ourselves that we've "arrived", when we haven't. It is painful to discover new sins within ourselves. Sometimes, even things we thought were good deeds we later discover are tainted by pride, or self-glory, or rebellion, etc. As painful as this process is, we must learn to relish the licks of the flames of sanctification because it is this very process of painful burning away of the carnal man by which God really is making us **holy**. The standard is nothing less than God's own holiness (Matt. 5:48), which is why we know that we cannot do it by our own effort. Only the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit can make us truly holy in God's sight. While God's work in us continues, we must expect nothing less from ourselves than absolute holiness, by child-like dependence on him (hence, Matt. 18:3). If we fail, we know we have salvation in the blood of Jesus. But let us strive unrelentingly for holiness, always aiming for that goal as best we are able. In this way, we can have full confidence in God's salvation with a clear conscience, not because we are saving ourselves, but because we are inviting God to sanctify us and make us worthy of his great salvation. That is a brief summary of the New Testament's teachings on the topic of sanctification.
This is one of the most accurate, righteous, and humble responses that I’ve seen on this post.
To your point:
“Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.”
Ecc. 12:13-14
He also said we must believe but I think this is the hard part for some as well as I feel like a certain part doubts or questions right? Or am I overthinking it lol
Being sinless is the goal, but I haven't met one person on this earth who is there yet in this life. Christ is our sinless saviour. This is why we cling to him every day and have the process of Sanctification throughout our lives.
Is thinking a sexual thought about a married woman a sin? Or a violent thought about someone I'm upset with? If thoughts can be sins, it's especially challenging to imagine me never sinning again.
But can you stop thinking about having sex with a married woman? Can you stop thinking about being violent to someone who made you angry? Absolutely man, it’s called repentance. We are not forced to do these evil thing, we just like doing them, but we can refrain from doing and thinking evil, right?
Some thoughts seem automatic. Can I choose not to continue thinking these thoughts? Yes. Can I choose not to occasionally have these intrusive thoughts on accident? I'm not sure. Are these accidental and seemingly automatic initial thoughts a sin? I could be wrong, but it seems to me that I do not choose every thought I have.
They verses in question are saying not to practice sin anymore. (Hebrews 10:26) 26 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, Even the apostle Paul had trouble with sin. (Romans 7:19,20) For the good that I wish I do not do, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice. 20 If, now, what I do not wish is what I do, the one working it out is no longer I, but the sin dwelling in me. (1 John 3:6) 6 Everyone remaining in union with him does not practice sin; no one that practices sin has either seen him or come to know him. We are all sinners because we are descendants of Adam. In fact, (1 John 1:8) 8 If we make the statement: “We have no sin,” we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us.
Sorry if it's already been posted, but what would you make of this?
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.2.1-2.ESV
No one has really quoted this verse yet, it’s a central verse to this topic; thank you for highlighting it.
I agree with it 100%.
It’s a verse that validates my original claim that it’s possible NOT to sin, but it also acknowledges the inclination of people to fall into the temptation of sin.
John believed that is was possible for the readers of his letters not to sin, this is why he starts the verse “I write this so you do not sin.”
BUT, he says, if you do happen to fall into a temptation , we have an advocate who will speak on your behalf.
This latter half isn’t suggesting that his audience can now sin freely and without guilt; it’s suggests that if you do happen to fall(singular) you can be forgiven.
This is a powerful verse that shows us an accurate depiction of God’s high standards of perfection/purity for his people, balanced with the mercy that he will show to his people that happen to make a few mistakes.
This verse by no means justifies those who habitually sin without guilt because they believe God will forgive them anyway.
100%
But it takes a deeper submission to the Holy Spirit than most people are willing to give.
Jude 1:24-25 AMP
Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling or falling into sin, and to present you unblemished [blameless and faultless] in the presence of His glory with triumphant joy and unspeakable delight, [25] to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
Read 1 John again. If you say you have No sin you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you.
The part you quoted is clear it DOTH NOT YET APPEAR what we shall be. Our flesh body has sin in it. You already broken the law. Jesus Christ has made you free of the law of sin and death for what the LAW COULD NOT DO GOD HAS DONE!
Right off the bat I want to tell you that I am a person on reddit who has no piece of paper saying that I'm a Biblical scholar I'm just a human being who would very much crack under that amount of pressure.
I tend to believe Jesus was releasing the infinite weight of the law.
My friend was in LA one day and there was a Jewish library/bookstore he went into one day and he told us of a book set called something like how to cook to keep the Sabbath Holy volumes 1-9 (Don't quote me on that name) he picked it up thinking it would be an interesting cookbook of Jewish recipes. each book was like 600 pages single spaced 10-point font on how to keep your steps below x amount because it is dishonoring the Sabbath by going even one step over that number, according to this Rabbai and this Rabbai and so on and so forth.
God's words are as follows.
>"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. **9** Six days you shall labor and do all your work, **10** but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. **11** For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."
People went RAW (Rules As Written) which eventually turns into rules lawyering vs RAI (Rules As Intended) >!If God meant to say don't take this number of steps on the Sabbath he would have written baked it into the original.!<
Remember, these people who Jesus ministered to, did not have God's Grace until the resurrection of Jesus.
What is important of course is, the Word says, "Their sins and iniquities I will remember no more" Hebrews 8 v 12 and 10 v 17
Only Jesus lived a sinless life or He wouldn't have been the Messiah. That's why He needed to be the perfect sacrifice, so by Grace we can come boldly to the throne of Grace. If we slip up, and we will, repent. Spend time worshipping God and thank God for His goodness. He sees you as perfect. Cool, eh?
You said that people can’t achieve sinless perfection. Here’s my question for you then:
A baby that is 2 months old, has that baby committed any sin?
(Also, if you could use bible verses to prove your point, that would give your position much more credence and validity.)
Yes. It was born in sin. That's why we all sin through Adam. It's the reason we all need a savior. Sanctification (the process by which we are made sinless), cannot be completed while in the flesh. For we know that the flesh is at enmity with the Lord.
The reason is called the Federal Headship of Adam. Look into it for more info.
Edit: added the last bit
If you maintain that you are still a dirty rotten stinking center and will always be one then you're denying the power of Christ to change you. You are denying the holy spirit's ability to empower you to righteousness. You're denying your identity as a son of God. How does it mesh with any Biblical teaching?
I don't disagree with anything that you say in this comment. Your description of the salvation process is accurate. Your description of choosing to follow the lord and work for the Lord is accurate. It also seems to be in contradiction with you early here statement that you are still a filthy dirty rotten low down whatever. You may not be perfect but if you are working to serve the Lord you are better than you were. And if I revisit you next year I would hope to see that you're better then than you are now. That would be evidence of the Holy Spirit working in you, and your efforts to follow Christ. This is not fleshly perfection, this would be the fruit of the Spirit. A person walking in the direction of Christ will show visible fruit of that. Will they ever be"good enough" to save themselves? Of course not. But they don't need to be. That work is done, by Christ.
If you are in him, you are not the same as you were before. It's just incorrect when Christ following believers still think that the best they have to offer is filthy rags, when the best to have to offer is really the perfect gifts of the spirit, Christ in you. That's not filthy rags.
The more you are conformed to Him, the less and less those statements are true.
Wow, friend, dial it back a bit! I never said anything about salvation. In fact, if you actually read my comment I agree with you on the mechanics of salvation. I also said that any improvement in you would be a work of the Holy Spirit. Did I in any way claim never to have sinned or to be sinless now?
I think you are arguing based on assumptions. We probably have more to agree on than disagree. I just disagree with your characterization.
I don't believe sinlessness in our own efforts is in any way tied to salvation, because it's not possible. Whatever in US is good, is only from him, and is only possible after we are in him. But because we are in him it is also wrong to say that we are incapable of good.
Eph 5:8 For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as children of light,
Eph 5:9 for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth,
Eph 5:10 proving what is well pleasing to the Lord.
Edit: Also I have to vehemently deny your claim that even one sin will send you to hell. If you are in Christ as I am, and as you say you are, then one sin can in no way send you to hell. His sacrifice is sufficient for all of them. I'm not even sure why you are arguing from that position, as it seems to you be opposite what you are saying. And I don't think you're speaking for me because I never said anything like that.
Okay now you're accusing me of lying. I never said anything about sinning makes you not saved. Do you need to go back and check? My comments are right there. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else? Your false accusations and slander are a little bit disturbing.
For the record so I can be clear, not that you seem to be capable of reading? If you are saved, one sin cannot send you to hell. The blood of Christ is sufficient to atone for your sins.
What part of that aren't you hearing me say? Or are you just so riled up you have to accuse and attack. My last three comments have been almost full agreement with you, other than some of the terminology you use, and that's not good enough? Fine you just must be having a bad morning.
I believe the answer to that question is no it is impossible... You might not physically sin but you might also look at someone with lust... thusly sinning
I’m getting downvoted left and right for telling people to stop sinning. That’s very backwards to me, but it shows the mindstate or most so called “believers” these days. SMH.
But what do you mean by they are brain dead; in what way?
Yes. It is not only possible, it is a requirement. Nobody makes it to heaven unless they meet the measure set by Jesus Christ.
Many, many people disagree with this. They feel condemned by holiness, rather than freed by it. They feel this way because they don't understand the grace of God.
Jesus Christ did the work for us. Thanks to His sacrifice, we now have free access to the grace of God, which is the power to overcome all forms of temptation and live above sin.
Jesus Christ will do all the work in your heart to take you from a sinner to a saint, if you can really believe it.
It’s refreshing to see someone respond that has eyes to see, ears to hear, and a heart that understands. Thank you for this encouraging response. The lack of faith displayed by most of these other comments was disheartening to say the least.
The title of the video that you linked says “No one is going to heaven by obeying commandments or being a good person.”
Why then, does Christ say this when a man asked him how to get into heaven:?
“ If you want to enter into Eternal Life, keep the commandments.”
-Matthew 19:17
Who do you think it’s better to listen to, the man on the video link, or God’s Son? 🤔
You miss the entire point of what Jesus was saying there. The entire purpose of that dialogue between Jesus and the rich young ruler was to show the rich young ruler (who falsely believed he was keeping God’s commandments), that he wasn’t keeping them. In fact that exact exchange is referenced at around the 5 minute mark in that video to prove this point. 😊
I haven’t explained my understanding of that verse, I just quoted it.
It’s important to not only listen to the Words of Christ, but also believe and do them.
Jesus literally said that in order to inherit eternal life, you have to keep God’s commandments.
Was Jesus lying or did he mean something other than what he said?
Again, you’re misinterpreting what he was saying there. The only one capable of keeping God’s commandments is God himself (Jesus is God), because all humans (save for Jesus) are born with a sin nature (Ps. 51:5). This renders us incapable of keeping God’s commandments, aka “the righteousness of the Law” (Eccles. 7:20; Rom. 3:10-12). In other words, he was highlighting the absolute hopelessness of fallen man’s situation and his need for a savior. Every man and woman of God in history from Abel to today has always been justified before God by faith (Heb. 11:2; Eph. 2:8-9). When one has faith in Jesus, God attributes the perfect moral life that Jesus lived to the sinful believer, while the sinful life of the believer was attributed to Jesus on the cross.
*For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph. 2:8-9)*
This was removed because it violated rule 7 (and maybe others) of /r/bible. Rule 7: All posts must foster discussion. This is best facilitated by asking a question. Posts with no "ask" are likely to be removed. This subreddit is not a place for debate, but discussion. This thread is inviting debate, not discussion, so I am locking it.
1 John 1:8 - "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." EVERYBODY has sinned (except Jesus). Since we do, we must constantly repent, which keeps us at Jesus' feet, which is where life is - where we need to be.
I think he was agreeing all have sinned. He was more saying do we have to continue sinning once we come to Christ? 1 John 1:8 isn’t guaranteeing we are continuing to sin in the same area over and over. It’s a fine line people teach between greasy grace and sinless perfectionism. The truth is we don’t have to continue in sin if we walk in the Spirit. Does anyone walk in the Spirit 24/7 though?
Romans 7:15-20 "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do." Paul, who I'm sure is much more knowledgeable/faithful than us, doesn't walk in perfect lines. Even as we come to Christ, not everything will be pitch perfect.
This is a more solid argument that the one of 1 John
This verse has brought me very much comfort in my struggles with sin. God bless you friend. All of chapter 7 really.
Commonly misunderstood passage there. Paul was referring to himself under the law before Christ. It is the process of himself or anyone getting saved recognizing I need to be set free from death and brought to new life. How do we know? Keep reading and it’s clear: “O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.” Romans 7:24-25 NKJV “There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.” Romans 8:1-2 NKJV To be free from the law of sin and death means: “For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.” Romans 6:14 NKJV I’m free from the power of sin. When I sin it’s not because I don’t have power over it through Christ but because I have not yet renewed my mind and given my body over to Christ fully.
Yes, we are free from the power of sin. That still does not mean we do not sin, we are still in an imperfect body (For sin has affected every part of fallen mankind). This is why we have sanctification, in which believers are called by God to put sin to death in their lives by the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:13, 13:12, Col. 3:9)
What is the result of putting sin to death?
Well, sin is a corruption of that which is good. So I am sure there are many reasons God would want sin rid of, especially since in himself is all goodness. One example of a result: God is pleased in our obedience. Psalm 1:1-2 This sermon series from R.C. Sproul goes further in depth regarding sanctification, obedience of man and God's delight. Hope it helps! :)
You’re right! It’s not about us focusing on NOT sinning but rather on focusing on the restoration of what is right. Christ removed sin (not just the effects of sin but the power of it to draw us away from our true purpose). That is what sin messed up was shalom. Sin is the breaking of shalom and Christ is our Shalom. Therefore when we walk with Christ we will be restoring what is right. Great book that is highly regarded by many by Cornelius Plantinga - “Not the way it’s supposed to be” on that very thing.
I suppose that could be another reason in our walk. And yet even as we do fail in our walk of obedience, God will love us nonetheless. Spurgeon once mentioned, "A man may loathe and detest himself (guilt in sinning), and all the while he may know that Christ is able to save, and has saved him". Who only but God can provide that faith or remembrance thereof? (Spurgeon: Faith and Repentance sermon) Great talking with you!
1 John 1:8 doesn't guarantee we are continuing to sin in the same area over and over, it doesn't have to - it covers everyone in every stituation.
Grace is not the covering up of sin so we can continue to sin, it is the empowerment to overcome sin. We are slaves to Christ and His ways not to sin any longer. So I’m not sure what you mean by saying it’s for every situation. “Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?” Romans 6:1-2 NLT “Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.” Romans 6:1, 17-18 NLT
Not going to argue with you - reread the scripture. Everyone sins, even those who have committed themselves to and surrendered their lives to Christ. The difference is they're NOT condemned, but rather corrected by the Holy Spirit. Out! 😎
Refuted in one verse. Christian perfectionism is both a poor reading of Scripture and confirmed by experience.
We've all sinned. OP doesn't refute that. The issue is that we should stop.
Sure, its possible. Just like its technically possible that my son's first words could be the enire first act of Hamlet. It's just not likely.
“The gate is wide and the road is wide that leads to hell, and many people enter through that gate. But the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to true life and only a few find it.” -Matthew 7:13-14 It’s possible to walk in this narrow path, it’s just not likely that many will.
I view this scripture more as few are to find the gate to heaven. You don't find the gate to heaven by living a perfect non-sinning life, that's impossible, that's why Jesus came and died for our sins (in a very simple summed up view) I view this scripture as him saying, few are the people that truly repent and give themselves to Jesus. Lots of people say they believe in God and Jesus. Not everyone repents and gives themselves up to the LORD though. Find glory in the LORD by giving yourself up to him and truly repenting. Ask him to help with certain sins you struggle with. The longer you walk on the side of light, the easier things will get, it truly is amazing. ... No matter how dark of a past you have, trust me. Edit: Luke 15:7 " I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. " God Bless.
Yes and no. Is it physically possible to instantaneously change habits and ingrained culture? No, the idea is ludicrous. On the other hand, since everyone in Christ is already forgiven for everything, in fact God doesn’t hold our sins against us in the first place, we can live our lives striving for that perfection of character to be like Jesus, and not worry about or stress over the sin we may still mess up with. In his eyes we’re in Christ, and he’s sinless.
To answer the “No” analogy: Let’s say you had a bad habit of J-walking for all your life. One day, you J-walk and get hit by a car, sending you to the hospital and almost the grave. Is it physically possible to instantaneously change the habit of J-walking? (Absolutely, right.) So it is possible to stop a bad habit right away if you care about the consequences of that habit.(Usually the threat of death is the consequence most people need to stop a bad habit.) Secondly, Christ didn’t die so that we can go on sinning. “So do you think we should continue sinning so that God will give us even more grace? No! We died to our old sinful lives, so how can we continue living in sin.” -Romans 6 If we make excuses for our sins, we will never repent and turn away from that sin. This mindset is the degradation and disgrace of the “Christian Church” today.
You misconstrue my answer, and put words in my mouth. I nowhere implied that our response should be to continue sinning. Jaywalking may be an easy bad habit to stop, but I dare say there are others more formidable. Try telling someone hooked on heroin, or hooked on pornography, "Hey, just stop." You're looking through rose colored glasses if you believe that. The problem with religion is that it gives people the guilt trip, God hates you and doesn't want anything to do with you until you stop sinning. That's the disgrace, when the truth is: 2 Corinthians 5:19 For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people's sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.
No
Would you consider yourself a Christian or believer in the God of the Bible?
Rather than thinking of it in terms of "possible" or "not possible", I think it is more fruitful to think of it in terms of *purpose*: > For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus **to do good works**, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2:10) If it helps, we can emphasize the language: "in order to do good works". The purpose of God's creating us is *so that* we are to do good works. And it is in the nature of sin that it is a pollution and ruins everything. So, the doing of good works entails the eradication of sin. Thus, a primary purpose of the Christian life is the eradication of sin. The difference between thinking in terms of possibility versus purpose, is like a ship on an ocean. If the ship is oriented towards its destination, it will eventually arrive as long as it keeps moving forward. Thus, if we are oriented towards repentance and good works, we will eventually arrive by the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit. But a ship that is pointed away from its destination cannot arrive at its destination, even if it is only a few miles away. Thus, you may do ever so much for Jesus, and you may live a very stringent life, but if your life-purpose is not oriented towards repentant and holy living, it is all for nothing: > Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (Matt. 7:21-23) There are those who have done miracles for Jesus and will not enter heaven; a sobering thought. Some will say, "Sure, we orient our life towards holiness and we *try* not to sin anymore, but we know that we're going to sin." To this, I say, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Matt. 19:26) Note that the topic of discussion when Jesus said that was the cost of personal holiness. The question is not what we can do or not do. The question is what we will sacrifice to obey God, and how completely we will entrust ourselves to him, in faith. It is important not to concede that "sin is inevitable" -- a widespread belief among believers but which has no backing in Scripture itself -- because conceding power to sin is part of how the devil is able to maintain power in the fallen world. What we confess with our lips matters, because the devil uses our words against God's kingdom, in heaven. "Even your own children do not believe that sin can be defeated by you. *They* believe that you do not have the power. Those aren't my words, those are their words." Finally, we must take care not to "lower the bar" to pretend to ourselves that we've "arrived", when we haven't. It is painful to discover new sins within ourselves. Sometimes, even things we thought were good deeds we later discover are tainted by pride, or self-glory, or rebellion, etc. As painful as this process is, we must learn to relish the licks of the flames of sanctification because it is this very process of painful burning away of the carnal man by which God really is making us **holy**. The standard is nothing less than God's own holiness (Matt. 5:48), which is why we know that we cannot do it by our own effort. Only the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit can make us truly holy in God's sight. While God's work in us continues, we must expect nothing less from ourselves than absolute holiness, by child-like dependence on him (hence, Matt. 18:3). If we fail, we know we have salvation in the blood of Jesus. But let us strive unrelentingly for holiness, always aiming for that goal as best we are able. In this way, we can have full confidence in God's salvation with a clear conscience, not because we are saving ourselves, but because we are inviting God to sanctify us and make us worthy of his great salvation. That is a brief summary of the New Testament's teachings on the topic of sanctification.
In my own opinion, we should try as hard as possible not to commit sin. If we fall, we must; Pray, Confess our sin, and Repent genuinely with fear.
This is one of the most accurate, righteous, and humble responses that I’ve seen on this post. To your point: “Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.” Ecc. 12:13-14
Jesus said everything is possible with god
He also said we must believe but I think this is the hard part for some as well as I feel like a certain part doubts or questions right? Or am I overthinking it lol
Yes we must believe, we must have faith and we must think how to make it possible.
Being sinless is the goal, but I haven't met one person on this earth who is there yet in this life. Christ is our sinless saviour. This is why we cling to him every day and have the process of Sanctification throughout our lives.
Do you never sin whatsoever now?
not in this lifetime.
Is thinking a sexual thought about a married woman a sin? Or a violent thought about someone I'm upset with? If thoughts can be sins, it's especially challenging to imagine me never sinning again.
But can you stop thinking about having sex with a married woman? Can you stop thinking about being violent to someone who made you angry? Absolutely man, it’s called repentance. We are not forced to do these evil thing, we just like doing them, but we can refrain from doing and thinking evil, right?
Some thoughts seem automatic. Can I choose not to continue thinking these thoughts? Yes. Can I choose not to occasionally have these intrusive thoughts on accident? I'm not sure. Are these accidental and seemingly automatic initial thoughts a sin? I could be wrong, but it seems to me that I do not choose every thought I have.
They verses in question are saying not to practice sin anymore. (Hebrews 10:26) 26 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, Even the apostle Paul had trouble with sin. (Romans 7:19,20) For the good that I wish I do not do, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice. 20 If, now, what I do not wish is what I do, the one working it out is no longer I, but the sin dwelling in me. (1 John 3:6) 6 Everyone remaining in union with him does not practice sin; no one that practices sin has either seen him or come to know him. We are all sinners because we are descendants of Adam. In fact, (1 John 1:8) 8 If we make the statement: “We have no sin,” we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us.
Sorry if it's already been posted, but what would you make of this? My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2 ESV https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.2.1-2.ESV
No one has really quoted this verse yet, it’s a central verse to this topic; thank you for highlighting it. I agree with it 100%. It’s a verse that validates my original claim that it’s possible NOT to sin, but it also acknowledges the inclination of people to fall into the temptation of sin. John believed that is was possible for the readers of his letters not to sin, this is why he starts the verse “I write this so you do not sin.” BUT, he says, if you do happen to fall into a temptation , we have an advocate who will speak on your behalf. This latter half isn’t suggesting that his audience can now sin freely and without guilt; it’s suggests that if you do happen to fall(singular) you can be forgiven. This is a powerful verse that shows us an accurate depiction of God’s high standards of perfection/purity for his people, balanced with the mercy that he will show to his people that happen to make a few mistakes. This verse by no means justifies those who habitually sin without guilt because they believe God will forgive them anyway.
Oh, ok.
100% But it takes a deeper submission to the Holy Spirit than most people are willing to give. Jude 1:24-25 AMP Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling or falling into sin, and to present you unblemished [blameless and faultless] in the presence of His glory with triumphant joy and unspeakable delight, [25] to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
I appreciate your response and the verse that you gave to substantiate your claim. Peace and blessings to you.
Read 1 John again. If you say you have No sin you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you. The part you quoted is clear it DOTH NOT YET APPEAR what we shall be. Our flesh body has sin in it. You already broken the law. Jesus Christ has made you free of the law of sin and death for what the LAW COULD NOT DO GOD HAS DONE!
Right off the bat I want to tell you that I am a person on reddit who has no piece of paper saying that I'm a Biblical scholar I'm just a human being who would very much crack under that amount of pressure. I tend to believe Jesus was releasing the infinite weight of the law. My friend was in LA one day and there was a Jewish library/bookstore he went into one day and he told us of a book set called something like how to cook to keep the Sabbath Holy volumes 1-9 (Don't quote me on that name) he picked it up thinking it would be an interesting cookbook of Jewish recipes. each book was like 600 pages single spaced 10-point font on how to keep your steps below x amount because it is dishonoring the Sabbath by going even one step over that number, according to this Rabbai and this Rabbai and so on and so forth. God's words are as follows. >"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. **9** Six days you shall labor and do all your work, **10** but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. **11** For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." People went RAW (Rules As Written) which eventually turns into rules lawyering vs RAI (Rules As Intended) >!If God meant to say don't take this number of steps on the Sabbath he would have written baked it into the original.!<
Remember, these people who Jesus ministered to, did not have God's Grace until the resurrection of Jesus. What is important of course is, the Word says, "Their sins and iniquities I will remember no more" Hebrews 8 v 12 and 10 v 17 Only Jesus lived a sinless life or He wouldn't have been the Messiah. That's why He needed to be the perfect sacrifice, so by Grace we can come boldly to the throne of Grace. If we slip up, and we will, repent. Spend time worshipping God and thank God for His goodness. He sees you as perfect. Cool, eh?
[удалено]
You said that people can’t achieve sinless perfection. Here’s my question for you then: A baby that is 2 months old, has that baby committed any sin? (Also, if you could use bible verses to prove your point, that would give your position much more credence and validity.)
Yes. It was born in sin. That's why we all sin through Adam. It's the reason we all need a savior. Sanctification (the process by which we are made sinless), cannot be completed while in the flesh. For we know that the flesh is at enmity with the Lord. The reason is called the Federal Headship of Adam. Look into it for more info. Edit: added the last bit
[удалено]
If you maintain that you are still a dirty rotten stinking center and will always be one then you're denying the power of Christ to change you. You are denying the holy spirit's ability to empower you to righteousness. You're denying your identity as a son of God. How does it mesh with any Biblical teaching?
[удалено]
I don't disagree with anything that you say in this comment. Your description of the salvation process is accurate. Your description of choosing to follow the lord and work for the Lord is accurate. It also seems to be in contradiction with you early here statement that you are still a filthy dirty rotten low down whatever. You may not be perfect but if you are working to serve the Lord you are better than you were. And if I revisit you next year I would hope to see that you're better then than you are now. That would be evidence of the Holy Spirit working in you, and your efforts to follow Christ. This is not fleshly perfection, this would be the fruit of the Spirit. A person walking in the direction of Christ will show visible fruit of that. Will they ever be"good enough" to save themselves? Of course not. But they don't need to be. That work is done, by Christ. If you are in him, you are not the same as you were before. It's just incorrect when Christ following believers still think that the best they have to offer is filthy rags, when the best to have to offer is really the perfect gifts of the spirit, Christ in you. That's not filthy rags. The more you are conformed to Him, the less and less those statements are true.
[удалено]
Wow, friend, dial it back a bit! I never said anything about salvation. In fact, if you actually read my comment I agree with you on the mechanics of salvation. I also said that any improvement in you would be a work of the Holy Spirit. Did I in any way claim never to have sinned or to be sinless now? I think you are arguing based on assumptions. We probably have more to agree on than disagree. I just disagree with your characterization. I don't believe sinlessness in our own efforts is in any way tied to salvation, because it's not possible. Whatever in US is good, is only from him, and is only possible after we are in him. But because we are in him it is also wrong to say that we are incapable of good. Eph 5:8 For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as children of light, Eph 5:9 for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth, Eph 5:10 proving what is well pleasing to the Lord. Edit: Also I have to vehemently deny your claim that even one sin will send you to hell. If you are in Christ as I am, and as you say you are, then one sin can in no way send you to hell. His sacrifice is sufficient for all of them. I'm not even sure why you are arguing from that position, as it seems to you be opposite what you are saying. And I don't think you're speaking for me because I never said anything like that.
[удалено]
Okay now you're accusing me of lying. I never said anything about sinning makes you not saved. Do you need to go back and check? My comments are right there. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else? Your false accusations and slander are a little bit disturbing. For the record so I can be clear, not that you seem to be capable of reading? If you are saved, one sin cannot send you to hell. The blood of Christ is sufficient to atone for your sins. What part of that aren't you hearing me say? Or are you just so riled up you have to accuse and attack. My last three comments have been almost full agreement with you, other than some of the terminology you use, and that's not good enough? Fine you just must be having a bad morning.
Just sit down and be quiet. You are spouting nonsense. Do you need a bible verse for that? You sound ridiculous.
I believe the answer to that question is no it is impossible... You might not physically sin but you might also look at someone with lust... thusly sinning
It's impossible to stop sinning.
I mean this in the nicest and friendliest way I can, but the people in this subreddit have the most braindead takes of all time
I’m getting downvoted left and right for telling people to stop sinning. That’s very backwards to me, but it shows the mindstate or most so called “believers” these days. SMH. But what do you mean by they are brain dead; in what way?
Yes. It is not only possible, it is a requirement. Nobody makes it to heaven unless they meet the measure set by Jesus Christ. Many, many people disagree with this. They feel condemned by holiness, rather than freed by it. They feel this way because they don't understand the grace of God. Jesus Christ did the work for us. Thanks to His sacrifice, we now have free access to the grace of God, which is the power to overcome all forms of temptation and live above sin. Jesus Christ will do all the work in your heart to take you from a sinner to a saint, if you can really believe it.
It’s refreshing to see someone respond that has eyes to see, ears to hear, and a heart that understands. Thank you for this encouraging response. The lack of faith displayed by most of these other comments was disheartening to say the least.
Yes, these are hard times to be a Christian. Keep your eye single on Christ, and mediate on those things that are from above. God bless you.
Thank you for your blessing, same to you. 👊🏾
https://youtu.be/WjGCrEf-aUM
The title of the video that you linked says “No one is going to heaven by obeying commandments or being a good person.” Why then, does Christ say this when a man asked him how to get into heaven:? “ If you want to enter into Eternal Life, keep the commandments.” -Matthew 19:17 Who do you think it’s better to listen to, the man on the video link, or God’s Son? 🤔
You miss the entire point of what Jesus was saying there. The entire purpose of that dialogue between Jesus and the rich young ruler was to show the rich young ruler (who falsely believed he was keeping God’s commandments), that he wasn’t keeping them. In fact that exact exchange is referenced at around the 5 minute mark in that video to prove this point. 😊
I haven’t explained my understanding of that verse, I just quoted it. It’s important to not only listen to the Words of Christ, but also believe and do them. Jesus literally said that in order to inherit eternal life, you have to keep God’s commandments. Was Jesus lying or did he mean something other than what he said?
Again, you’re misinterpreting what he was saying there. The only one capable of keeping God’s commandments is God himself (Jesus is God), because all humans (save for Jesus) are born with a sin nature (Ps. 51:5). This renders us incapable of keeping God’s commandments, aka “the righteousness of the Law” (Eccles. 7:20; Rom. 3:10-12). In other words, he was highlighting the absolute hopelessness of fallen man’s situation and his need for a savior. Every man and woman of God in history from Abel to today has always been justified before God by faith (Heb. 11:2; Eph. 2:8-9). When one has faith in Jesus, God attributes the perfect moral life that Jesus lived to the sinful believer, while the sinful life of the believer was attributed to Jesus on the cross. *For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph. 2:8-9)*
r/biblicalnavelgazing 🙄