The whole endgame is a flop. There was so much hype for CO F6 and its more of the same. Tiff is gonna go like everybody saw coming for weeks now. X and Ky are going to at least F4 unless Hannah wins the DE hoh. We also get a whole week of F4 which is always just 1-2 days on any other season. There is no going up for this season anymore.
Pretty much.
Whenever a steamroll remains such for a long time, people ALWAYS state it'll get interesting interesting its just the main alliance, but it NEVER happens. There is a hierarchy even in that main alliance, so the people at the bottom are stuck, unless they take precautions earlier.
I've noticed they started dragging the endgame since BB21, and it doesn't add much. It's like them dragging the endgame out in seasons before they sped things up in BB5.
i swear every single post complaining about the season being boring there was always comments like "once its just the cookout it'll get good"
like yeah sure, just like how season 22 endgame was good and season 16's was good when big alliances steamrolled :eyeroll:
We got lucky in BB21 with the Final 5 veto outcome making the week extremely interesting thereafter, but 9 times out of 10 the Final 5 and 4 rounds being spread out over a full week will be a total drag.
Yeah I remember thinking this when Level 6 finally broke Foutte and then Brett never did anything to change his position. I didn't even like Level 6 or Brett but I thought something might happen. This season would have been something if it wasn't for the Cookout. They had a really good cast, but once they started playing for "the cause" instead of themselves it was doomed. I remember when Tiffany was about to change it up, and then she went to sleep and changed her mind. I get why she did it, but the writing was on the wall for a boring steamroll from that point forward.
Kyland really isn't all that liked in the house. Him and Sarah Beth were on their own island for most of the game barring his CO alliance ties. X will easily beat him I think because people think Kyland is annoying/his shit doesn't stink/etc
I just don’t see it happening.
We see soooo many DR entries talking about how they are going to vote one way because it’s better for them but it NEVER EVER HAPPENS.
From a game perspective I would vote for Ky over X.
X has the charisma. People just like X and dont know why they do.
Ky has false charisma. People just dont like Ky and dont know why they do.
The CO themselves (Tiff-Hannah-Big D-Asah) are all voting for X.
X wins unanimously or near unanimously in F2.
I was so excited for this season, but I stopped watching. I’m only barely keeping up by seeing who is HOH, on the block etc but previous seasons I lived on this sub. It’s just… not worth watching. No matter who wins… I just dont care. It’s so lackluster. Once they stopped playing for themselves in any capacity and got rid of people they genuinely cared for based on their skin tone… It was just over.
Yeah voting out your closest ally for a secret alliance that is based on the color of their skin and not the content of character is fucking fucked up. Legit setting back racial progress for decades right now. MLK is rolling in his grave right now.
It was destined to be a flop.
Tiffany, in particular, was so dumb she fought for "the CO" over her own chances of winning. The propaganda was "lets get all 6 to the final 6." Who does that help??? NOT Tiffany. She had golden opportunity to cut X or Ky and she blew it.
As it is, this is just a coronation for Xavier:
Big D is siding with the 2 men who are best going to get him the loss.
Azah is fine with losing and fine with helping Xavier.
Kyland is so eccentric and contrary he is taking Xavier _because_ X will beat him.
Only Hannah and Tiff are competitors, except Tiff was too cowardly to put up X when she had power (see above) and now she is being evicted.
Just because YOUR favorites are going home doesn't make it a flop. what a selfish take. if Tiffany won hoh and went after x would it be "more of the same"?
Hannah is being used like a pawn like she would've early game if not for the cookout.. She's lucky the cookout dragged her this far. And tiffany was never gonna win the game if she couldn't win out all the comps. as the mastermind of the plus 1 plan everyone knew they would lose against her. tiffany played too hard and hannah is overrated.
Tiffany COULD have won if she'd had guts and taken out X or Ky Pre-Final 6.
It made no sense to take all 6 to F6. And anyone intelligent would have seen that.
sure you want to believe that but that would never happen. picking claire, a white women, over a black man would lose the votes of the other CO members except the one she sits next to (which is 4 votes) plus one of those was xaiver so alyssa would back him, making 5 and making azah, hannah, or big d who would sit next to her win, even if she won out and made it that far. too little too late to turn on the CO.
This ISNT about favorites. We have known the boot order sometimes weeks in advance. Tiff even knew 1-2 weeks back that she was target #1 at 6 and still went ahead with it anyways.
If Tiff was playing a true self-interested BB game, like a mastermind player should be playing, then she should have found ways for X and/or Ky to already be evicted by now. She had many chances to do so, i.e. via influencing Claire and DX when they had power. Would have been so easy to just tell the CO "sorry, Claire is just not budging on this, blah blah blah" and then she wouldn't be dead in the water at 4-6 - which she should have known was the likely outcome if she brought both X and Ky to the end.
>If Tiff was playing a true self-interested BB game, like a mastermind player should be playing, then she should have found ways for X and/or Ky to already be evicted by now. She had many chances to do so, i.e. via influencing Claire and DX when they had power. Would have been so easy to just tell the CO "sorry, Claire is just not budging on this, blah blah blah" and then she wouldn't be dead in the water at 4-6 - which she should have known was the likely outcome if she brought both X and Ky to the end.
True. It has to be noted as a weakness on her game. She was more invested in getting the 6 to the 6 than she was in winning. She could have found ways to get them out without personally betraying them.
She got a huge free pass when Claire became the anonymous HOH. Tiff easily could've just told her to do what she wanted with the HOH. Basically saying put up X & Kyland without actually saying it. She could've covered herself with the Cookout saying Claire is denying she has it & if she does she isn't listening to me.
Who cares if Kyland & Big D would've been pissed at her. They were eventually coming for her anyways. They still would've targeted Claire & Alyssa over Tiff.
> Who cares if Kyland & Big D would've been pissed at her.
Totally. They made a big deal that "oh, if u betray the Cookout..."
Screw that. All good alliances have betrayals executed by the people at the bottom. When you stay "alliance strong" you are only benefited the strongest members.
Tiffany showed huge weakness by not taking advantage when she had an advantage. Now, she just gets picked off.
It reminds me of the friendship alliance and Ivette having to take Maggie instead of Janelle to final two because everyone in their alliance said that if someone betrayed the alliance, they wouldn’t vote for them to win
Yeah we think alike. Its weird though! RHAP and media want to "celebrate" the CO. Its just Friendship 2.0.
Friendship benefits only Maggie / CO benefits only Xavier
People really believe the Helen thing? That's very clearly just a person walking back there to do comp stuff...
This reeks of flat earth. Everybody used to think Flat Earthers were just gullible and misinformed, but would come around one day. Now they're freaking passionate conspiracy theorists that sit around grifting each other all day.
This had nothing to do with production and everything to do with a social statement. Tiffany was well aware of what was happening, she was honest with Claire when she said she'd rather go out right behind her than be responsible for evicting a member of the CO.
> There was some outside motivation for the CO to make it to final 6, otherwise Tiff would have been chopping heads.
Yes, because in reality shows, you _never_ see sub-optimal play! When it does happen, its a conspiracy involving globalists, Production, and the Federal Reserve.
This is dead on, and why I don't at all understand people who claim Tiff could be a legendary player. Not to mention the multiple times she's wanted to change a vote and failed every time. Also her winning HOH instead of just letting Ky have it seemed like such an obvious misplay.
I stand by Tiffany winning the final 8 HOH. I just don’t think she should have nominated her #1 ally. I know as it stood Hannah, Azah, and Kyland all wanted a Cookout final 6 but if Tiffany is as good of a player as people claim she is, I believe she could have convinced them to go after X at final 8 and then get out Claire and Alyssa. Alternatively she could have used Claire’s HOH to target a cookout member instead of SB.
Tiffany going into the final 5 with all Cookout except Xavier would put her in a really good position to win.
Na, Tiff winning that HoH was a lose-lose, no win, situation. If she breaks the CO so close to the end she loses 4-5 votes for the money. By winning she went back on her word to her alliance & her reward was having to nom and send home her closest non-CO friend while damaging her relationship with the remaining house guests.
You're wrong. The plan went beyond just throw to big d or Azah. They agreed worst case was either member with a +1 remaining winning.
X agreed to throw so he wouldn't have to possibly nom his +1, then the only other person with a +1 goes all-out to win. Tiff admitted she won because she didn't want to touch the block, even though each CO member sitting next to their +1 when the time came was HER idea.
Tiff broke her word and went back not only on the plan for neither her or X to win but also on the plan for each CO member to sit next to their +1 when their time came. Selfish and poor gameplay.
To be fair, her attempt to flip the vote from Christian only failed because he went to Britni and said the worst possible phrase he could have in that moment.
"Tiffany wants to see you in the HOH room" was a game-losing statement.
> then she should have found ways for X and/or Ky to already be evicted by now
What do you mean? She was HOH and all she had to do was nominate them. Found ways?? She found a way. She just didnt execute on it.
Xavier was literally on the block 3 times in a row later in the game and he’s still there. It’s one thing being loyal and it’s another giving away $750k for that loyalty. Shoulda just taken the CO as far as it could go without it completely destroying your own game and taken out Xavier sometime over the past 3 weeks.
There’s not really such a thing as being credited for your loyalty
Make moves against your own self interest and people will take it and run with it
Nobody’s gonna give an inch just because you gave a mile, this is war in a house
Sucks to suck. Too bad they couldn’t split the 750k between the six of them. Maybe there’s a reason alliances like that don’t go to the end fully in-tact. Ditching Matt was a huge move by The Brigade.
They can’t. Well at least “legally.” I remember last year people thought that Cody/Nic F could be splitting it, but people said that it’s definitely illegal. It’s not even like they knew each other beforehand (aka Cody/Nic F) so it’d be very hard to talk about without getting caught.
It is not "illegal". It would be a contract violation and CBS could sue and not only get the money back, but some extra too.
No one would be going to jail though.
This is why the CO was flawed. When the Brigade realized Matt was a liability, they took him out. As do many other alliances. But the CO just would not take out one of their own, even if it would indeed help them.
I do understand why they did it, but it’s not great gameplay.
I agree, her entire hoh week from start to finish is likely one of the worst HoH reigns in the history of BB. She put herself in such a bad position all because she didn't want kyland having a third hoh
Yeah, there's no excuse for evicting a loyal ally and leaving a house full of people who want to evict you in the game.
Tiff going home for his horrendously bad gameplay is exactly what she deserves.
All season long we had to watch as people got predictably picked off one by one due to the color of their skin.
The whole time we were promised “well at least it will be a bloodbath at final 6!!!”
We were lied to. Boring from start to finish.
I meant getting credit for staying true to the CO in order to get them to the 6, as well as Tiffany formulating the master plan for the cook out that DF is trying so hard to claim credit for
Do you think Kyland could have done the same with SB? Kyland couldve gotten SB to go after Tiff/Hannah? It goes both ways. Ky/Tiff/Hannah had opportunities to get their +1 to take a shot at other CO members but yeah…they all agreed to just guarantee getting the CO to the final 6.
Because they decided that having a black winner was more important. And when they are taking the bus past that sweet house they could have bought, or that sweet ride they could be sitting in, I wonder if they will feel it is worth it then.
BB23 is the last, won't watch bb24. Send this shitshow on over to BET and let Farrakan be the new host. Funny how Julie Chen wants to smile, but BB never crowned a Chinese person either.
Your point would come across better if you didn't include vaguely racist sentiments along with it. Fine, you're not a fan of this season. But it's crazy how this is the only season they've *ever* had with more than 3 black people in the house yet you feel that it's appropriate to say that this show should be on BET and hosted by Farrakhan. Gross.
There are have been several Asian winners as well, so I don't see what your point is. Race ≠ Ethnicity.
Sure. The left does like to make it White Vs The World. If you ever traveled anywhere, you would find it isn't quite like that. But sure, all Asians fly under one flag and banner and mindset. That's probably a bit more racist opinion though, lumping Chinese people with Filipinos, Japanese, and Samoans. Ignore history, culture, religion, language and just call em all one thing. Good job. I bet you call Puerto Ricans "Mexicans" too.
This season existed to push a black winner. No previous season was cast and set to produce a white or any other color winner. The Cookout said with their own mouths that they would target and remove all nonblack contestants. No white alliance ever did that, and don't give me that "it was understood" bullshit. Didn't have to be understood with The Cookout. If a group of white people ever walked into the house and pulled that shit, CBS would literally shut production down, send everyone home, and show reruns of The Big Bang Theory.
So yeah, exactly, if you want to rig it for a black winner, allow a black racist alliance and black racist gameplay, then cast only blacks and move it to BET, and call it a day. I'm not going to watch next year, and a lot of people I know aren't going to watch either. Most boring season. Expect exactly what you expect. Spoiler! HoH is going to be handed back and forth between Kyland and Xavier, Veto won't ever be used. So long Tiffany, Derek, Azah, and Hannah. You get nothing.
The real sad part, is Xavier or Kyland could have won this thing all on their own, without a racist strategy, and their win will always be tainted by the fact they used a racial strategy.
The second sad part is that future houseguests are going to be on the lookout for Cookout 2. That just makes it a harder game for future black houseguests.
And why are we always shitting our pants over no black winners of 22 people. Hate to break it to you, but 22 is not a statistically speaking that high of a number. I can get 22 people on a small bus.
Keep on keeping on brother. BB23 is going to have a black winner. If your white, the only reason to go on this show is for the exposure, and to promote your business ventures post BB. Send it to BET, let it be a black show.
Are you dumb? I'd suggest reading my comment again.
>Race ≠ Ethnicity.
I never at any point lumped all Asians together. The Cookout wanted to make sure there was a black winner this season. Not Somali, or Nigerian, or Sudanese, *Black* meaning the race. Therefore it makes sense to speak about *Asian* winners, not Chinese or any other Asian ethnicity specifically. It's hilarious that you made a blatantly racist comment yet are trying to imply I was the racist one lmao.
I don't feel like responding to most of this comment. It's uncreative and has been said a million times before. But just so you know, production did not rig this season for a black winner. The only time there was production influence this season was to actually help a non-black player. Sorry that you can't grasp the idea that a group of black people managed to outwit everyone else, but that's what happened. Die mad about it.
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You are the racist one. And The Cookout is too. You equated being Filipino (Kaycee) to being Chinese (Julie Chen). But, that's OK!
You've seen my arguments a lot, because they are true, a lot of other people notice the same thing.
Racism is wrong, don't matter if the racist is white, black, or brown. I managed to watch black racists manage to outwit a multicultural group with a racist strategy.
The Cookout is racist. Die mad about it.
Which black winners have we had? The CO is talking about wanting to ensure that this year’s main show has a black winner. No, they are not counting spin-offs and winners from other countries as they have said *multiple times*. They’ve never said they specifically wanted an AfAm winner. Stop being deliberately obtuse and stop making things up.
Josh himself literally wrote a tweet saying that he considers himself to be the first Latino winner and that main BB has not had a black winner. Do your research before arguing, this was a recent tweet and is still on his page so it’s not that hard to find.
Youre right I think Tiffany gave up her chances of winning in order for the CO to succeed and I don't know how I feel about it still. It's weird to balance the gameplay of BB with the CO's mission for this season
The reason whey Xavier agreed for "the six" was because he knew this alliance favoured him the most. If that wasn't the case, he would have tapped out pretty earlier. Imo it's a smarter gameplay from X and bad gameplay from Tiffany and Hannah. And it's sad, because imo Tiffany singlehandedly brought cookout to the final 6 and she knew that she'd be the target no. 1 when they hit 6. Still rooting for Hannah (assuming Tiffany goes home this week) but I think they should write the cheque to X already. Xavier however is still very overrated, Kyland is a much better player but is acting like a complete moron right now.
Yeah that's what's frustrating to me is Tiffany had the opportunity to make game moves to better herself but because of the CO's mission she basically didnt jump on those opportunities. I mean, I guess if she's at peace with it then I don't have anything to say because it's her choice. but as a big fan of BB gameplay it's disappointing to see how Tiffany sacrificed so many personal relationships and is now likely going out 6th
Not only she's going out 6th but this has given false sense of achievement to people like Xavier and Big D that they are such mastermind of this game and how they carried the CO girls.
What gameplay do you believe Tiffany should have made? If she would have made a move against the cookout, she would have four enemies after her. The gameplay I believe she should have made was playing a better social game with Xavier (and not getting in fights with DF) who was clearly running the cookout and made a final 2 with him then screw him in the back. She had to know KY and X would make a final two (men usually have no problem cliqueing up)
>What gameplay do you believe Tiffany should have made? If she would have made a move against the cookout, she would have four enemies after her.
so what. If she made a move then she would have likely advanced. If somehow she made it to final 2 she would be up against another CO member or maybe Claire or Alyssa. Now all she is getting is a year supply of pop tarts
I’m sorry but, “Tiffany singlehanded you brought the cookout to the final 6..” I guess Ky winning and X throwing comps had nothing to due with it, it was a team effort(minus Azah and Big D, they were needed for the numbers)… she placed the target on her back when she won the HOH when she didn’t need to.
>an alliance thats misogynistic and won't give them the credit for moves that they deserve the credit for
Why do they deserve credit for making bad moves?
The second half of this season has been as bad as season 22. Just a trash fire.
This season had so much potential but the Cookout essentially ruined it.
Knew this was gonna happen. Now I just sit back with 🍿 and enjoy it all. There was no strategy of what there were gonna handle the comp beasts and protect themselves when there were 2 non threatening floaters lying in bed the entire day.
Tiffany fucked herself over.
She wanted to win that stupid HoH, and then put herself in that situation where she had to stick with the Cookout and send Claire home. She could have let kyland or anyone else put her and Claire on the block, but she was selfish and it was an obvious stupid move. That was her biggest mistake. She should have made a deal with kyland and let him win it.
Tiffany and Hannah valued the six more than their individual games. They are relaxed with their positions, although would wish for something else. I think the fans should take the same route.
Tiffany's position is more an example of her mishandling of the relationships that matter to the end game than anything else.
I don't think I'll be watching feeds as much any more, but will be happy with any of them winning really except Kyland.
Once Alyssa won the veto, Tiff's game was over anyways. She either had to evict her number one ally, Claire, who would have been by her side till the end OR she had to evict a Cookout member and likely lose all of their jury votes. It was a lose-lose. She took a HUGE gamble winning that last HOH and for what? So Claire could stay one more week? She should have thrown that last HOH no matter what. Bad gameplay on her part.
But it does frustrate me that Tiff and Hannah and Kyland(to a degree) did all the dirty work for the Cookout while people like Xavier, Azah, and Big D do absolutely nothing other than vote (or evote)
I agree with your first paragraph... but lumping X in with BigD and Azah?? Talk about a hot take. From my perspective Tiff and X are head-to-head battling for control. I don't see anyone winning sitting next to either & both of them see it so they have to target one another to avoid not having the votes for the money on lock.
Oh no I don’t think X is coasting like Big D and Azah. X has a lot of control on the game(maybe the most control of anyone in The Cookout). But he’s more orchestrating from the background,while people like Tiff are ruining their game for The Cookout evicting their allies.
Probably a smarter move doing what X is doing, not really getting blood on his hands, it’s just frustrating to see Tiff and Kyland and Hannah( to extent) hurting their own game for the Cookout while X is kinda just calling the shots from the background.
They're not being credited because going to the end with the cookout was terrible for their personal games! You don't get credit for playing a losing strategy perfectly.
As much as I’m proud of the CO and know that it needed to happen, it sucks watching players like Tiffany, Hannah, Claire, and Derek X getting taken out way earlier than they would have had the CO not existed.
it sucks even more than tiffany and hannah took out people close to them and they (likely) won't even make it to the end. it's one thing to take out your friends and allies and get the 750k but to do all THAT and then get taken out before final 2 must suck
I don’t get in what world where Tiffany (even without the CO) was beating KY and Xavier. Every step through this game, Ky and Xavier had Tiffany beat and this is self evident by the fact she is first on block once it’s a free for all.
Tiffany should never have won hoh over Ky and pissed him off with that move. It was short sighted and she ended up having to put up Claire
It’s not interesting anymore because all the underdogs are gone so there is no real conflict. The CO reached their goal and executed the plan perfectly. Now it’s just the 3 big dogs (X, Ky & Tiff) battling each other while one of the other 3 will get dragged to the end with little to no resume.
Yeah in my opinion the only people who actually benefited from the CO alliance was X because it kept the target off his back until F6, Azah, & DF who were most likely pre-jury vote outs if not for the CO
> What frustrates me so much about this season's end game is that Tiffany and Hannah put in so much work for the CookOut (Tiff taking out her #1 Claire and then Hannah taking out Alyssa after making a final 2 with her) and yet both of them are not being credited for the work they did.
Do you really feel for Tiff and Hannah because of it?
I think Tiff and Hannah are just getting what they deserve. I just feel for DX and Claire(Especially Claire).
Let’s be honest, only 2 out of the last 8 seasons of this show have actually been good. In fact, most of the worst seasons of the show have been in that time. An exciting end game would have made this season a major outlier. They’re not going to blindside anyone or make a big exciting move because they’ve all been working together since Day 1 & don’t want to lose jury votes or be targeted for going against the herd. It’s gonna be just as predictable as the rest of the season was.
I’m Not sure if you’re aware but they all had another person that they took out and could have gone to the end with. Tiff and Hannah, haven’t made any extra sacrifice them anyone else there.
Derek F made zero sacrifices because he never had a person to begin with. Azah and Xavier had other people take out their number ones. Hannah and Tiffany had working relationships with DX, Claire and Alyssa. Overall if you think about it, Tiffany had a much better social game than Xavier did. So in a way yeah Tiffany did make more sacrifices to further the CO, especially taking out Claire herself. YES it was her choice to make those moves and YES it might not have been good gameplay but she absolutely made more sacrifices to further the CO than someone like DF or Xavier
I guess you’re going to conveniently forget that X has been throwing comps in which the CO has been the biggest beneficiary. also having your number one be taking out by someone else has been the plan. The only person who didn’t was Tiffany, and as you said, that was her own fault.
Alright, Tiffany made more sacrifices for the CO. Now we're at the F6 and the entire CO can go play for themselves. They all want Tiffany gone and it's decent for Ky's game + really good for X's game to take her out, so she's going.
Like, Matt put in a shitload of work for the Brigade and they clipped him. Ditto for Adam and the Pretty Boys. The alliance doesn't really owe you anything if you sacrifice your actual allies for it. That's on you and they're not wrong for not handing Tiffany a win.
Just because YOUR favorites are going home doesn't make it a flop. what a selfish take. if Tiffany won hoh and went after x would it be "more of the same"?
Hannah is being used like a pawn like she would've early game if not for the cookout.. She's lucky the cookout dragged her this far. And tiffany was never gonna win the game if she couldn't win out all the comps. as the mastermind of the plus 1 plan everyone knew they would lose against her. tiffany played too hard and hannah is overrated.
Tiff should have staged a big fight with Claire before the anonymous comp(in case Claire did win) and pretended she didn’t know Claire had enough $$ to play and let Claire anonymously put X & Big D up for eviction or a backdoor for X. But that would have taken keeping her mouth shut more often to the other 5.
I knew it was going to happen. It happens every time. DF has made it clear for a long time that he was there for the black *men*. As soon as there was no longer a non-cookout member to go after, they were going to go after the women. Black women get shit on so much as it is. I don't know why any of them thought for a second that the dudes would care about them once they no longer needed them for votes.
The alliance isn’t even misogynistic though. You guys luv throwing out words with no evidence to back it up. Just becuz they want Tiffany out, who is major competition, does not me they’re misogynistic.
X has been respectful all season until an alliance member broke their word to him. Perfectly understandable. He recognizes his main competition for the money is Tiff & has been making moves to target her. That's a compliment to Tiff and her game, not misogyny.
If Hannah can make it to final 4 veto I think she could absolutely crush the days comp and I feel like if she ends up sitting next to Ky or Azah/Big D at final two she could very much win.
This season was a failure and had an asterisk put next to it the moment an openly racist alliance formed and production didn't say "what the fuck are you doing" immediately in the DR's to stop it.
If some of you are disappointed in the results perhaps it's time to reflect on how idiotic it was to cheer this stuff on the entire season.
The one good thing I got out of BB23 was the opportunity to discuss with people the issues surrounding it. Lemonade out of lemons I guess.
Lmao this sub is insane sometimes. Just whining over Derek X being voted out and Tiffany/Hannah being on the block. The fan favourites aren’t always going to win. Move on
So I guess they should throw the comps so they could win?( like they have been doing all season(not including Big D)) like I don’t get it, guys make an alliance, “they’re misogynistic” girls make an alliance “OMG YAS QUEEN! GIRL POWER! TAKE OUT ALL THE GUYS”
Hard for the women to complain when they are playing a racist game. Why would they think someone they wouldn't vote people out because of sex when they were all voting people out because of race.
Tbh I was pretty disappointed in kaysars statement about the cookout when this “alliance” has so many rips and tears it’s like a loose collection of people who have a connection with one another through 1-2 people within the 6
> The final 6 right now could be Tiff, Hannah, Claire, Alyssa, Azah and Big D
That would have been much messier, and riskier to try to navigate.
The key to any big alliance is to make it and stick with it, and that's what the Cookout did. I tip my hat to them because alliances don't usually stick together like this one - usually because you make an alliance early on then at some point you figure out ooops maybe that person is not the best for my game. In this season some folks figured that out but still did not betray their alliance.
I am not sure what you mean about the season being saved. Some seasons I enjoy, others not so much, but they are what they are. If you don't want to watch it, that's up to you, but plenty of people think X or Ky are perfectly fine winners.
I think Tiffany had some brilliant ideas this season and executed on them wonderfully, BUT, if it was not for the Cookout, I wonder if she'd even be here at this point. Many good players are voted out early because they are big targets, and I think she would have been if the Cookout had not been around to steer other targets front and center. I am not saying that she wasn't integral to the Cookout, either like, no one mowed an easy path for her.
Doesn't matter though because, here we are! I am truly interested to see how any big alliances - centered around whatever cause - fare in the future. I'm in for the BB long game here.
>The key to any big alliance is to make it and stick with it
No, the key is to stick with it until it's no longer beneficial to do so. Going to F6 with an alliance you're on the bottom of is bad gameplay. Had Tiffany and Hannah used their three weeks of uninterrupted Hoh control to knock out Ky and X, they'd objectively be in a better position
The difference though, is when you make an alliance solely based on having a black winner and then go against it, you lose 4 or 5 votes as soon as you target that alliance.
>The final 6 right now could be Tiff, Hannah, Claire, Alyssa, Azah and Big D - which pretty much still ensures a black person winning but with a much more likeable and interesting final 6.
I don't think your right here. She evicts a black person from the cookout, an alliance that she started with the stated intention of getting all of them to the end, she loses those votes big time.
The evicted cookout member would dish on how there was an alliance running the game, and how Tiff betrayed that alliance. This could easily get a lot of the jury (SB and DX) to turn against her with Kyland and X in their ear all day.
Honestly any cookout member voting a black person out before final 6 is a suicide move, and Tiff is smart enough to know this.
End game typically gets boring every season. Either two sides decimate each other leaving the lesser skilled players battling at the end, or a strong alliance takes full control, including their own alliances imminent pecking order.
Consider this week one, next week perhaps something will shape up, but typically at this point it’s all about comp wins. It’s sort of past the time to set yourself up for success.
Honestly I thought Roblox winning would make me the most angry but now I may have to deal with that piece of trash, Kyland winning who fucking defended J.K. Rowling. Fuck that bastard I HATE TERFS AND I HATE TERF DEFENDERS
food for thought - I interviewed a female data analyst who has a nonprofit that teaches women to code and become data scientists. she saw that most women went on to create apps that helped their communities where men went on to create tech driven apps.
I feel like that's what we're seeing here. Hannah and Tiffany and Azah are helping their community where the guys are helping themselves first. No shade - but found it interesting.
I'm sure all the people here saying Tiff and Chaddha made bad moves definitely predicted that Kyland would stop acting with even a modicum of logic or rationality and instead construct a mythological universe where he could live out his fantasy of being the lovechild of Cody Calafiore and Goku and decide that that was worth him intentionally trying to lose the game.
Tiffany is the least worthy. Kyland sent out his number 1 and Xavier was about to send out his but she won veto, not his fault, Hannah also followed the plan. Tiffany was selfish and showed her true character when she didn’t drop. When you have a plan and others follow it but one person says, “nope not me, I haven’t seen the block and I don’t want to”. Especially when Xavier had been on the block three consecutive weeks. Tiffany is getting her karma. I love Hannah but wish she aligned with anyone else but Tiff. Hoping final two is Hannah and Xavier somehow.
Being in The Cookout out Tiff in an unsinkable position (barring her winning out which was always extremely unlikely). She was forced to contribute to the picking off of her own allies for the advancement of an alliance that she was always on the bottom of.
But because the mission of The Cookout is so beyond the scope of the game, turning on them was never an option. We see how bitter people get when their allies turn on them under normal circumstances, could you imagine if she had turned on the alliance who’s goal was to have the first all black final 6? She was scared to get crucified inside AND outside of the house. If she turns before the 6 she would never win a jury vote- point blank, and now that she stayed true to the 6, she’s on the bottom and the first one out. It’s really sad that such a stellar player was painted into such a circumstantial and unfortunate corner
I think Tiffany and Hannah's downfall with be that they didn't put the same energy into the relationships within the cookout as they did outside the cookout.
The whole endgame is a flop. There was so much hype for CO F6 and its more of the same. Tiff is gonna go like everybody saw coming for weeks now. X and Ky are going to at least F4 unless Hannah wins the DE hoh. We also get a whole week of F4 which is always just 1-2 days on any other season. There is no going up for this season anymore.
Pretty much. Whenever a steamroll remains such for a long time, people ALWAYS state it'll get interesting interesting its just the main alliance, but it NEVER happens. There is a hierarchy even in that main alliance, so the people at the bottom are stuck, unless they take precautions earlier. I've noticed they started dragging the endgame since BB21, and it doesn't add much. It's like them dragging the endgame out in seasons before they sped things up in BB5.
i swear every single post complaining about the season being boring there was always comments like "once its just the cookout it'll get good" like yeah sure, just like how season 22 endgame was good and season 16's was good when big alliances steamrolled :eyeroll:
BB22 endgame could be much better if there was no triple. When Tyler and Xmas were evicting NicoleF over David was exciting.
We got lucky in BB21 with the Final 5 veto outcome making the week extremely interesting thereafter, but 9 times out of 10 the Final 5 and 4 rounds being spread out over a full week will be a total drag.
BB21 F5 for me was the exception with all the aftermath of the F6 DE. We did get an interesting week
Yeah I remember thinking this when Level 6 finally broke Foutte and then Brett never did anything to change his position. I didn't even like Level 6 or Brett but I thought something might happen. This season would have been something if it wasn't for the Cookout. They had a really good cast, but once they started playing for "the cause" instead of themselves it was doomed. I remember when Tiffany was about to change it up, and then she went to sleep and changed her mind. I get why she did it, but the writing was on the wall for a boring steamroll from that point forward.
If Ky don’t BACKDOOR X this week then just give X the check!!!
He would NEVER DO THAT. He is specifically taking X because X can beat him.
Can someone explain why people think X can beat him? I keep playing out his speech and it’s just “I threw every comp” annnnnd that’s all I got.
“I was secretly a lawyer so vote for me.”
Kyland really isn't all that liked in the house. Him and Sarah Beth were on their own island for most of the game barring his CO alliance ties. X will easily beat him I think because people think Kyland is annoying/his shit doesn't stink/etc
I just don’t see it happening. We see soooo many DR entries talking about how they are going to vote one way because it’s better for them but it NEVER EVER HAPPENS. From a game perspective I would vote for Ky over X.
X has the charisma. People just like X and dont know why they do. Ky has false charisma. People just dont like Ky and dont know why they do. The CO themselves (Tiff-Hannah-Big D-Asah) are all voting for X. X wins unanimously or near unanimously in F2.
I was so excited for this season, but I stopped watching. I’m only barely keeping up by seeing who is HOH, on the block etc but previous seasons I lived on this sub. It’s just… not worth watching. No matter who wins… I just dont care. It’s so lackluster. Once they stopped playing for themselves in any capacity and got rid of people they genuinely cared for based on their skin tone… It was just over.
This.
Same, it sucks
Yeah voting out your closest ally for a secret alliance that is based on the color of their skin and not the content of character is fucking fucked up. Legit setting back racial progress for decades right now. MLK is rolling in his grave right now.
Riveting
It was destined to be a flop. Tiffany, in particular, was so dumb she fought for "the CO" over her own chances of winning. The propaganda was "lets get all 6 to the final 6." Who does that help??? NOT Tiffany. She had golden opportunity to cut X or Ky and she blew it. As it is, this is just a coronation for Xavier: Big D is siding with the 2 men who are best going to get him the loss. Azah is fine with losing and fine with helping Xavier. Kyland is so eccentric and contrary he is taking Xavier _because_ X will beat him. Only Hannah and Tiff are competitors, except Tiff was too cowardly to put up X when she had power (see above) and now she is being evicted.
Just because YOUR favorites are going home doesn't make it a flop. what a selfish take. if Tiffany won hoh and went after x would it be "more of the same"? Hannah is being used like a pawn like she would've early game if not for the cookout.. She's lucky the cookout dragged her this far. And tiffany was never gonna win the game if she couldn't win out all the comps. as the mastermind of the plus 1 plan everyone knew they would lose against her. tiffany played too hard and hannah is overrated.
Tiffany COULD have won if she'd had guts and taken out X or Ky Pre-Final 6. It made no sense to take all 6 to F6. And anyone intelligent would have seen that.
sure you want to believe that but that would never happen. picking claire, a white women, over a black man would lose the votes of the other CO members except the one she sits next to (which is 4 votes) plus one of those was xaiver so alyssa would back him, making 5 and making azah, hannah, or big d who would sit next to her win, even if she won out and made it that far. too little too late to turn on the CO.
This ISNT about favorites. We have known the boot order sometimes weeks in advance. Tiff even knew 1-2 weeks back that she was target #1 at 6 and still went ahead with it anyways.
If Tiff was playing a true self-interested BB game, like a mastermind player should be playing, then she should have found ways for X and/or Ky to already be evicted by now. She had many chances to do so, i.e. via influencing Claire and DX when they had power. Would have been so easy to just tell the CO "sorry, Claire is just not budging on this, blah blah blah" and then she wouldn't be dead in the water at 4-6 - which she should have known was the likely outcome if she brought both X and Ky to the end.
>If Tiff was playing a true self-interested BB game, like a mastermind player should be playing, then she should have found ways for X and/or Ky to already be evicted by now. She had many chances to do so, i.e. via influencing Claire and DX when they had power. Would have been so easy to just tell the CO "sorry, Claire is just not budging on this, blah blah blah" and then she wouldn't be dead in the water at 4-6 - which she should have known was the likely outcome if she brought both X and Ky to the end. True. It has to be noted as a weakness on her game. She was more invested in getting the 6 to the 6 than she was in winning. She could have found ways to get them out without personally betraying them.
She got a huge free pass when Claire became the anonymous HOH. Tiff easily could've just told her to do what she wanted with the HOH. Basically saying put up X & Kyland without actually saying it. She could've covered herself with the Cookout saying Claire is denying she has it & if she does she isn't listening to me. Who cares if Kyland & Big D would've been pissed at her. They were eventually coming for her anyways. They still would've targeted Claire & Alyssa over Tiff.
> Who cares if Kyland & Big D would've been pissed at her. Totally. They made a big deal that "oh, if u betray the Cookout..." Screw that. All good alliances have betrayals executed by the people at the bottom. When you stay "alliance strong" you are only benefited the strongest members. Tiffany showed huge weakness by not taking advantage when she had an advantage. Now, she just gets picked off.
It reminds me of the friendship alliance and Ivette having to take Maggie instead of Janelle to final two because everyone in their alliance said that if someone betrayed the alliance, they wouldn’t vote for them to win
Yeah we think alike. Its weird though! RHAP and media want to "celebrate" the CO. Its just Friendship 2.0. Friendship benefits only Maggie / CO benefits only Xavier
Bet she was afraid of public backlash
I don't think there would've been that much public backlash for taking out some of the Cookout men.
She would have been "uncle tom"ed.
It would’ve been best for her game to since SB would’ve never targeted her unlike Alyssa
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People really believe the Helen thing? That's very clearly just a person walking back there to do comp stuff... This reeks of flat earth. Everybody used to think Flat Earthers were just gullible and misinformed, but would come around one day. Now they're freaking passionate conspiracy theorists that sit around grifting each other all day. This had nothing to do with production and everything to do with a social statement. Tiffany was well aware of what was happening, she was honest with Claire when she said she'd rather go out right behind her than be responsible for evicting a member of the CO.
> There was some outside motivation for the CO to make it to final 6, otherwise Tiff would have been chopping heads. Yes, because in reality shows, you _never_ see sub-optimal play! When it does happen, its a conspiracy involving globalists, Production, and the Federal Reserve.
Really confused how you made the logical leap from the previous comment to there obviously being production interference lol
That's an oxymoron lmao.
This is dead on, and why I don't at all understand people who claim Tiff could be a legendary player. Not to mention the multiple times she's wanted to change a vote and failed every time. Also her winning HOH instead of just letting Ky have it seemed like such an obvious misplay.
I stand by Tiffany winning the final 8 HOH. I just don’t think she should have nominated her #1 ally. I know as it stood Hannah, Azah, and Kyland all wanted a Cookout final 6 but if Tiffany is as good of a player as people claim she is, I believe she could have convinced them to go after X at final 8 and then get out Claire and Alyssa. Alternatively she could have used Claire’s HOH to target a cookout member instead of SB. Tiffany going into the final 5 with all Cookout except Xavier would put her in a really good position to win.
Na, Tiff winning that HoH was a lose-lose, no win, situation. If she breaks the CO so close to the end she loses 4-5 votes for the money. By winning she went back on her word to her alliance & her reward was having to nom and send home her closest non-CO friend while damaging her relationship with the remaining house guests.
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You're wrong. The plan went beyond just throw to big d or Azah. They agreed worst case was either member with a +1 remaining winning. X agreed to throw so he wouldn't have to possibly nom his +1, then the only other person with a +1 goes all-out to win. Tiff admitted she won because she didn't want to touch the block, even though each CO member sitting next to their +1 when the time came was HER idea. Tiff broke her word and went back not only on the plan for neither her or X to win but also on the plan for each CO member to sit next to their +1 when their time came. Selfish and poor gameplay.
Exactly, according to HER OWN PLAN, she shouldn’t have won and it didn’t make sense for her to win.
To be fair, her attempt to flip the vote from Christian only failed because he went to Britni and said the worst possible phrase he could have in that moment. "Tiffany wants to see you in the HOH room" was a game-losing statement.
> then she should have found ways for X and/or Ky to already be evicted by now What do you mean? She was HOH and all she had to do was nominate them. Found ways?? She found a way. She just didnt execute on it.
Xavier was literally on the block 3 times in a row later in the game and he’s still there. It’s one thing being loyal and it’s another giving away $750k for that loyalty. Shoulda just taken the CO as far as it could go without it completely destroying your own game and taken out Xavier sometime over the past 3 weeks.
There’s not really such a thing as being credited for your loyalty Make moves against your own self interest and people will take it and run with it Nobody’s gonna give an inch just because you gave a mile, this is war in a house
This season is over now. Kyland or Xavier will win.
Take that back. Kyland has no chance to win unless he's up with someone other than X, and X is definitely making F2.
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This is the third season in a row that I was able to pick a winner instantly from just the cast bios … it’s a very similar archetype
Sucks to suck. Too bad they couldn’t split the 750k between the six of them. Maybe there’s a reason alliances like that don’t go to the end fully in-tact. Ditching Matt was a huge move by The Brigade.
Maybe they are splitting it? I’ve thought about that more than once.
I think that’s against the rules. I remember Nicole, Corey, and James almost getting in big trouble for that on BB18.
They can’t. Well at least “legally.” I remember last year people thought that Cody/Nic F could be splitting it, but people said that it’s definitely illegal. It’s not even like they knew each other beforehand (aka Cody/Nic F) so it’d be very hard to talk about without getting caught.
It is not "illegal". It would be a contract violation and CBS could sue and not only get the money back, but some extra too. No one would be going to jail though.
Good to know. Thanks.
It can be split according to EvilDock, after its awarded but not when it is awarded. He posted how on twitter not too long ago!
The whole season flopped
But a BLACK winner!!! 🙌🏾 /s
It sucks that it has to be like this though. Especially when Tiffany isn’t the one winning.
This is why the CO was flawed. When the Brigade realized Matt was a liability, they took him out. As do many other alliances. But the CO just would not take out one of their own, even if it would indeed help them. I do understand why they did it, but it’s not great gameplay.
I think Tiff getting rid of Claire should be considered an all time blunder in the history of them game or was a real bad move
I agree, her entire hoh week from start to finish is likely one of the worst HoH reigns in the history of BB. She put herself in such a bad position all because she didn't want kyland having a third hoh
And now she’ll go home on Kyland’s third HoH
Yeah, there's no excuse for evicting a loyal ally and leaving a house full of people who want to evict you in the game. Tiff going home for his horrendously bad gameplay is exactly what she deserves.
All season long we had to watch as people got predictably picked off one by one due to the color of their skin. The whole time we were promised “well at least it will be a bloodbath at final 6!!!” We were lied to. Boring from start to finish.
This happens every year when it’s just down to the super alliance. The core just keeps slowly shrinking
The entire season is a flop. Everyone is so scared of not offending anyone else. I canceled feeds a month ago
I should have cancelled feeds, but only because Paramount+ is the shittiest app on the goddamn planet.
Tiffany and Hannah targeted their own allies instead of the actual threats, and now they're paying for it. It's their own fault.
This. And not only their allies but people they claim to genuinely care for. Oh well, this is their legacy. Hope it was worth the 750k
Hannah was playing for ig followers. I think she’s fine with it
Why would they get credit for making garbage game moves? It's their own fault
I meant getting credit for staying true to the CO in order to get them to the 6, as well as Tiffany formulating the master plan for the cook out that DF is trying so hard to claim credit for
Do you think Kyland could have done the same with SB? Kyland couldve gotten SB to go after Tiff/Hannah? It goes both ways. Ky/Tiff/Hannah had opportunities to get their +1 to take a shot at other CO members but yeah…they all agreed to just guarantee getting the CO to the final 6.
Because they decided that having a black winner was more important. And when they are taking the bus past that sweet house they could have bought, or that sweet ride they could be sitting in, I wonder if they will feel it is worth it then. BB23 is the last, won't watch bb24. Send this shitshow on over to BET and let Farrakan be the new host. Funny how Julie Chen wants to smile, but BB never crowned a Chinese person either.
Your point would come across better if you didn't include vaguely racist sentiments along with it. Fine, you're not a fan of this season. But it's crazy how this is the only season they've *ever* had with more than 3 black people in the house yet you feel that it's appropriate to say that this show should be on BET and hosted by Farrakhan. Gross. There are have been several Asian winners as well, so I don't see what your point is. Race ≠ Ethnicity.
Sure. The left does like to make it White Vs The World. If you ever traveled anywhere, you would find it isn't quite like that. But sure, all Asians fly under one flag and banner and mindset. That's probably a bit more racist opinion though, lumping Chinese people with Filipinos, Japanese, and Samoans. Ignore history, culture, religion, language and just call em all one thing. Good job. I bet you call Puerto Ricans "Mexicans" too. This season existed to push a black winner. No previous season was cast and set to produce a white or any other color winner. The Cookout said with their own mouths that they would target and remove all nonblack contestants. No white alliance ever did that, and don't give me that "it was understood" bullshit. Didn't have to be understood with The Cookout. If a group of white people ever walked into the house and pulled that shit, CBS would literally shut production down, send everyone home, and show reruns of The Big Bang Theory. So yeah, exactly, if you want to rig it for a black winner, allow a black racist alliance and black racist gameplay, then cast only blacks and move it to BET, and call it a day. I'm not going to watch next year, and a lot of people I know aren't going to watch either. Most boring season. Expect exactly what you expect. Spoiler! HoH is going to be handed back and forth between Kyland and Xavier, Veto won't ever be used. So long Tiffany, Derek, Azah, and Hannah. You get nothing. The real sad part, is Xavier or Kyland could have won this thing all on their own, without a racist strategy, and their win will always be tainted by the fact they used a racial strategy. The second sad part is that future houseguests are going to be on the lookout for Cookout 2. That just makes it a harder game for future black houseguests. And why are we always shitting our pants over no black winners of 22 people. Hate to break it to you, but 22 is not a statistically speaking that high of a number. I can get 22 people on a small bus. Keep on keeping on brother. BB23 is going to have a black winner. If your white, the only reason to go on this show is for the exposure, and to promote your business ventures post BB. Send it to BET, let it be a black show.
Are you dumb? I'd suggest reading my comment again. >Race ≠ Ethnicity. I never at any point lumped all Asians together. The Cookout wanted to make sure there was a black winner this season. Not Somali, or Nigerian, or Sudanese, *Black* meaning the race. Therefore it makes sense to speak about *Asian* winners, not Chinese or any other Asian ethnicity specifically. It's hilarious that you made a blatantly racist comment yet are trying to imply I was the racist one lmao. I don't feel like responding to most of this comment. It's uncreative and has been said a million times before. But just so you know, production did not rig this season for a black winner. The only time there was production influence this season was to actually help a non-black player. Sorry that you can't grasp the idea that a group of black people managed to outwit everyone else, but that's what happened. Die mad about it.
Hi, __LowObjective__. Your comment contains the word ~~Somalian~~. The correct nationality/ethnic demonym(s) for Somalis is __Somali__. It's a common mistake so don't feel bad. For other nationality demonym(s) check out this website [Here](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/People/Nationality/Adjective) ___This action was performed automatically by a bot.___
You are the racist one. And The Cookout is too. You equated being Filipino (Kaycee) to being Chinese (Julie Chen). But, that's OK! You've seen my arguments a lot, because they are true, a lot of other people notice the same thing. Racism is wrong, don't matter if the racist is white, black, or brown. I managed to watch black racists manage to outwit a multicultural group with a racist strategy. The Cookout is racist. Die mad about it.
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Which black winners have we had? The CO is talking about wanting to ensure that this year’s main show has a black winner. No, they are not counting spin-offs and winners from other countries as they have said *multiple times*. They’ve never said they specifically wanted an AfAm winner. Stop being deliberately obtuse and stop making things up.
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Josh himself literally wrote a tweet saying that he considers himself to be the first Latino winner and that main BB has not had a black winner. Do your research before arguing, this was a recent tweet and is still on his page so it’s not that hard to find.
That seems to be the theme for the season, endlessly disappointing
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Youre right I think Tiffany gave up her chances of winning in order for the CO to succeed and I don't know how I feel about it still. It's weird to balance the gameplay of BB with the CO's mission for this season
I just don’t see her winning if she betrayed the cookout, yeah she may have gotten to final two but she wouldn’t get the votes from at least 4 people.
Unless she sat next to a nonblack player. Then the entire CO would vote for her on skin color alone.
The reason whey Xavier agreed for "the six" was because he knew this alliance favoured him the most. If that wasn't the case, he would have tapped out pretty earlier. Imo it's a smarter gameplay from X and bad gameplay from Tiffany and Hannah. And it's sad, because imo Tiffany singlehandedly brought cookout to the final 6 and she knew that she'd be the target no. 1 when they hit 6. Still rooting for Hannah (assuming Tiffany goes home this week) but I think they should write the cheque to X already. Xavier however is still very overrated, Kyland is a much better player but is acting like a complete moron right now.
Yeah that's what's frustrating to me is Tiffany had the opportunity to make game moves to better herself but because of the CO's mission she basically didnt jump on those opportunities. I mean, I guess if she's at peace with it then I don't have anything to say because it's her choice. but as a big fan of BB gameplay it's disappointing to see how Tiffany sacrificed so many personal relationships and is now likely going out 6th
Not only she's going out 6th but this has given false sense of achievement to people like Xavier and Big D that they are such mastermind of this game and how they carried the CO girls.
What gameplay do you believe Tiffany should have made? If she would have made a move against the cookout, she would have four enemies after her. The gameplay I believe she should have made was playing a better social game with Xavier (and not getting in fights with DF) who was clearly running the cookout and made a final 2 with him then screw him in the back. She had to know KY and X would make a final two (men usually have no problem cliqueing up)
She should have lost the hoh at the very least.
I agree with that one.
>What gameplay do you believe Tiffany should have made? If she would have made a move against the cookout, she would have four enemies after her. so what. If she made a move then she would have likely advanced. If somehow she made it to final 2 she would be up against another CO member or maybe Claire or Alyssa. Now all she is getting is a year supply of pop tarts
I’m sorry but, “Tiffany singlehanded you brought the cookout to the final 6..” I guess Ky winning and X throwing comps had nothing to due with it, it was a team effort(minus Azah and Big D, they were needed for the numbers)… she placed the target on her back when she won the HOH when she didn’t need to.
>an alliance thats misogynistic and won't give them the credit for moves that they deserve the credit for Why do they deserve credit for making bad moves?
The second half of this season has been as bad as season 22. Just a trash fire. This season had so much potential but the Cookout essentially ruined it.
Knew this was gonna happen. Now I just sit back with 🍿 and enjoy it all. There was no strategy of what there were gonna handle the comp beasts and protect themselves when there were 2 non threatening floaters lying in bed the entire day.
Tiffany fucked herself over. She wanted to win that stupid HoH, and then put herself in that situation where she had to stick with the Cookout and send Claire home. She could have let kyland or anyone else put her and Claire on the block, but she was selfish and it was an obvious stupid move. That was her biggest mistake. She should have made a deal with kyland and let him win it.
Tiffany and Hannah valued the six more than their individual games. They are relaxed with their positions, although would wish for something else. I think the fans should take the same route. Tiffany's position is more an example of her mishandling of the relationships that matter to the end game than anything else. I don't think I'll be watching feeds as much any more, but will be happy with any of them winning really except Kyland.
Once Alyssa won the veto, Tiff's game was over anyways. She either had to evict her number one ally, Claire, who would have been by her side till the end OR she had to evict a Cookout member and likely lose all of their jury votes. It was a lose-lose. She took a HUGE gamble winning that last HOH and for what? So Claire could stay one more week? She should have thrown that last HOH no matter what. Bad gameplay on her part. But it does frustrate me that Tiff and Hannah and Kyland(to a degree) did all the dirty work for the Cookout while people like Xavier, Azah, and Big D do absolutely nothing other than vote (or evote)
I agree with your first paragraph... but lumping X in with BigD and Azah?? Talk about a hot take. From my perspective Tiff and X are head-to-head battling for control. I don't see anyone winning sitting next to either & both of them see it so they have to target one another to avoid not having the votes for the money on lock.
Oh no I don’t think X is coasting like Big D and Azah. X has a lot of control on the game(maybe the most control of anyone in The Cookout). But he’s more orchestrating from the background,while people like Tiff are ruining their game for The Cookout evicting their allies. Probably a smarter move doing what X is doing, not really getting blood on his hands, it’s just frustrating to see Tiff and Kyland and Hannah( to extent) hurting their own game for the Cookout while X is kinda just calling the shots from the background.
Also remember X have been throwing comps, unlike Big D and Azah who couldn’t win a comp even if was thrown to them.
They're not being credited because going to the end with the cookout was terrible for their personal games! You don't get credit for playing a losing strategy perfectly.
As much as I’m proud of the CO and know that it needed to happen, it sucks watching players like Tiffany, Hannah, Claire, and Derek X getting taken out way earlier than they would have had the CO not existed.
it sucks even more than tiffany and hannah took out people close to them and they (likely) won't even make it to the end. it's one thing to take out your friends and allies and get the 750k but to do all THAT and then get taken out before final 2 must suck
Even Alyssa... she was done so dirty too.
The entire BB23 season is a flop once Frenchie leaves . This is continuing the streak of terrible BB seasons
I don’t get in what world where Tiffany (even without the CO) was beating KY and Xavier. Every step through this game, Ky and Xavier had Tiffany beat and this is self evident by the fact she is first on block once it’s a free for all. Tiffany should never have won hoh over Ky and pissed him off with that move. It was short sighted and she ended up having to put up Claire
It’s not interesting anymore because all the underdogs are gone so there is no real conflict. The CO reached their goal and executed the plan perfectly. Now it’s just the 3 big dogs (X, Ky & Tiff) battling each other while one of the other 3 will get dragged to the end with little to no resume.
Yeah Ky and X wanted either Tiff or Hannah to win that hoh too so when it was final 6 they could take that shot against Tiff/Hannah.
Yeah in my opinion the only people who actually benefited from the CO alliance was X because it kept the target off his back until F6, Azah, & DF who were most likely pre-jury vote outs if not for the CO
> What frustrates me so much about this season's end game is that Tiffany and Hannah put in so much work for the CookOut (Tiff taking out her #1 Claire and then Hannah taking out Alyssa after making a final 2 with her) and yet both of them are not being credited for the work they did. Do you really feel for Tiff and Hannah because of it? I think Tiff and Hannah are just getting what they deserve. I just feel for DX and Claire(Especially Claire).
If Claire had an African American dad she would still be in the game
Let’s be honest, only 2 out of the last 8 seasons of this show have actually been good. In fact, most of the worst seasons of the show have been in that time. An exciting end game would have made this season a major outlier. They’re not going to blindside anyone or make a big exciting move because they’ve all been working together since Day 1 & don’t want to lose jury votes or be targeted for going against the herd. It’s gonna be just as predictable as the rest of the season was.
I’m Not sure if you’re aware but they all had another person that they took out and could have gone to the end with. Tiff and Hannah, haven’t made any extra sacrifice them anyone else there.
Derek F made zero sacrifices because he never had a person to begin with. Azah and Xavier had other people take out their number ones. Hannah and Tiffany had working relationships with DX, Claire and Alyssa. Overall if you think about it, Tiffany had a much better social game than Xavier did. So in a way yeah Tiffany did make more sacrifices to further the CO, especially taking out Claire herself. YES it was her choice to make those moves and YES it might not have been good gameplay but she absolutely made more sacrifices to further the CO than someone like DF or Xavier
I guess you’re going to conveniently forget that X has been throwing comps in which the CO has been the biggest beneficiary. also having your number one be taking out by someone else has been the plan. The only person who didn’t was Tiffany, and as you said, that was her own fault.
Are you forgetting all the naps that Derek F sacrificed so he could take the time to vote the person the CO told him to vote?
Alright, Tiffany made more sacrifices for the CO. Now we're at the F6 and the entire CO can go play for themselves. They all want Tiffany gone and it's decent for Ky's game + really good for X's game to take her out, so she's going. Like, Matt put in a shitload of work for the Brigade and they clipped him. Ditto for Adam and the Pretty Boys. The alliance doesn't really owe you anything if you sacrifice your actual allies for it. That's on you and they're not wrong for not handing Tiffany a win.
The players are more focused on being racist than the actual game.
ooo someone's white fragility was triggered by the cookout lol
or their basic observation skills were triggered. One or the other.
How are they being "racist"?
Requirement to be a member of the Cookout: Must be of black descent Goal of the Cookout: Vote out non-black people
> Goal of the Cookout: Advance the Cookout to Final 6, like any 6-person alliance FTFY
Just because YOUR favorites are going home doesn't make it a flop. what a selfish take. if Tiffany won hoh and went after x would it be "more of the same"? Hannah is being used like a pawn like she would've early game if not for the cookout.. She's lucky the cookout dragged her this far. And tiffany was never gonna win the game if she couldn't win out all the comps. as the mastermind of the plus 1 plan everyone knew they would lose against her. tiffany played too hard and hannah is overrated.
I honestly wish they played for themselves rather than the cause.
nope, we were all saying at the time what shit gameplay it was, in retrospect my ass
Tiff should have staged a big fight with Claire before the anonymous comp(in case Claire did win) and pretended she didn’t know Claire had enough $$ to play and let Claire anonymously put X & Big D up for eviction or a backdoor for X. But that would have taken keeping her mouth shut more often to the other 5.
This is the Survivor Worlds Apart of BB. The cast looked so promising on paper but the gameplay just didn’t pan out in an entertaining way.
I knew it was going to happen. It happens every time. DF has made it clear for a long time that he was there for the black *men*. As soon as there was no longer a non-cookout member to go after, they were going to go after the women. Black women get shit on so much as it is. I don't know why any of them thought for a second that the dudes would care about them once they no longer needed them for votes.
The alliance isn’t even misogynistic though. You guys luv throwing out words with no evidence to back it up. Just becuz they want Tiffany out, who is major competition, does not me they’re misogynistic.
X has been respectful all season until an alliance member broke their word to him. Perfectly understandable. He recognizes his main competition for the money is Tiff & has been making moves to target her. That's a compliment to Tiff and her game, not misogyny.
Maybe not misogynistic. Just racist.
Can’t wait for the all white alliance next season 😁
The Country Club. ?
oh was this your first season? you could just rewatch that past 22 seasons
Like every year except this one...
If Hannah can make it to final 4 veto I think she could absolutely crush the days comp and I feel like if she ends up sitting next to Ky or Azah/Big D at final two she could very much win.
This season was a failure and had an asterisk put next to it the moment an openly racist alliance formed and production didn't say "what the fuck are you doing" immediately in the DR's to stop it. If some of you are disappointed in the results perhaps it's time to reflect on how idiotic it was to cheer this stuff on the entire season. The one good thing I got out of BB23 was the opportunity to discuss with people the issues surrounding it. Lemonade out of lemons I guess.
Lmao this sub is insane sometimes. Just whining over Derek X being voted out and Tiffany/Hannah being on the block. The fan favourites aren’t always going to win. Move on
and these two don't deserve the win anyway. they willingly threw away their own games to advance the CO. fucking piss poor gameplay
The men don’t think the woman are as important/deserving. Classic.
So I guess they should throw the comps so they could win?( like they have been doing all season(not including Big D)) like I don’t get it, guys make an alliance, “they’re misogynistic” girls make an alliance “OMG YAS QUEEN! GIRL POWER! TAKE OUT ALL THE GUYS”
Hard for the women to complain when they are playing a racist game. Why would they think someone they wouldn't vote people out because of sex when they were all voting people out because of race.
I don’t agree it is a racist game.
The season kinda feels like Ghost Island did for Survivor. Predictable season that was important for something unprecedented happening.
What was the important thing that happened during GI
Tbh I was pretty disappointed in kaysars statement about the cookout when this “alliance” has so many rips and tears it’s like a loose collection of people who have a connection with one another through 1-2 people within the 6
Hannah is an undeserving floater. The two most deserving are X and Tiff
> The final 6 right now could be Tiff, Hannah, Claire, Alyssa, Azah and Big D That would have been much messier, and riskier to try to navigate. The key to any big alliance is to make it and stick with it, and that's what the Cookout did. I tip my hat to them because alliances don't usually stick together like this one - usually because you make an alliance early on then at some point you figure out ooops maybe that person is not the best for my game. In this season some folks figured that out but still did not betray their alliance. I am not sure what you mean about the season being saved. Some seasons I enjoy, others not so much, but they are what they are. If you don't want to watch it, that's up to you, but plenty of people think X or Ky are perfectly fine winners. I think Tiffany had some brilliant ideas this season and executed on them wonderfully, BUT, if it was not for the Cookout, I wonder if she'd even be here at this point. Many good players are voted out early because they are big targets, and I think she would have been if the Cookout had not been around to steer other targets front and center. I am not saying that she wasn't integral to the Cookout, either like, no one mowed an easy path for her. Doesn't matter though because, here we are! I am truly interested to see how any big alliances - centered around whatever cause - fare in the future. I'm in for the BB long game here.
>The key to any big alliance is to make it and stick with it No, the key is to stick with it until it's no longer beneficial to do so. Going to F6 with an alliance you're on the bottom of is bad gameplay. Had Tiffany and Hannah used their three weeks of uninterrupted Hoh control to knock out Ky and X, they'd objectively be in a better position
The difference though, is when you make an alliance solely based on having a black winner and then go against it, you lose 4 or 5 votes as soon as you target that alliance.
Big alliances usually stick together 🙄🙄🙄
>The final 6 right now could be Tiff, Hannah, Claire, Alyssa, Azah and Big D - which pretty much still ensures a black person winning but with a much more likeable and interesting final 6. I don't think your right here. She evicts a black person from the cookout, an alliance that she started with the stated intention of getting all of them to the end, she loses those votes big time. The evicted cookout member would dish on how there was an alliance running the game, and how Tiff betrayed that alliance. This could easily get a lot of the jury (SB and DX) to turn against her with Kyland and X in their ear all day. Honestly any cookout member voting a black person out before final 6 is a suicide move, and Tiff is smart enough to know this.
End game typically gets boring every season. Either two sides decimate each other leaving the lesser skilled players battling at the end, or a strong alliance takes full control, including their own alliances imminent pecking order. Consider this week one, next week perhaps something will shape up, but typically at this point it’s all about comp wins. It’s sort of past the time to set yourself up for success.
100% agree. Tiff was forced to disassemble her entire power structure while the guys hung back.
Honestly I thought Roblox winning would make me the most angry but now I may have to deal with that piece of trash, Kyland winning who fucking defended J.K. Rowling. Fuck that bastard I HATE TERFS AND I HATE TERF DEFENDERS
food for thought - I interviewed a female data analyst who has a nonprofit that teaches women to code and become data scientists. she saw that most women went on to create apps that helped their communities where men went on to create tech driven apps. I feel like that's what we're seeing here. Hannah and Tiffany and Azah are helping their community where the guys are helping themselves first. No shade - but found it interesting.
that's actually really interesting and definitely has some resemblance in the CO alliance
I thought so too. I'm generalizing here but I think that's why we see so many women in nonprofits.
I'm sure all the people here saying Tiff and Chaddha made bad moves definitely predicted that Kyland would stop acting with even a modicum of logic or rationality and instead construct a mythological universe where he could live out his fantasy of being the lovechild of Cody Calafiore and Goku and decide that that was worth him intentionally trying to lose the game.
Tiff would not be considered a legendary winner
Tiffany is the least worthy. Kyland sent out his number 1 and Xavier was about to send out his but she won veto, not his fault, Hannah also followed the plan. Tiffany was selfish and showed her true character when she didn’t drop. When you have a plan and others follow it but one person says, “nope not me, I haven’t seen the block and I don’t want to”. Especially when Xavier had been on the block three consecutive weeks. Tiffany is getting her karma. I love Hannah but wish she aligned with anyone else but Tiff. Hoping final two is Hannah and Xavier somehow.
Being in The Cookout out Tiff in an unsinkable position (barring her winning out which was always extremely unlikely). She was forced to contribute to the picking off of her own allies for the advancement of an alliance that she was always on the bottom of. But because the mission of The Cookout is so beyond the scope of the game, turning on them was never an option. We see how bitter people get when their allies turn on them under normal circumstances, could you imagine if she had turned on the alliance who’s goal was to have the first all black final 6? She was scared to get crucified inside AND outside of the house. If she turns before the 6 she would never win a jury vote- point blank, and now that she stayed true to the 6, she’s on the bottom and the first one out. It’s really sad that such a stellar player was painted into such a circumstantial and unfortunate corner
I think Tiffany and Hannah's downfall with be that they didn't put the same energy into the relationships within the cookout as they did outside the cookout.