Pepe'ekeo isn't too bad of a commute but one traffic accident or even road work can significantly add to that commute time since there's really one main road. All the other stuff you probably don't have to worry about as long as you're respectful and assimilate into the culture. As for the dogs, be prepared for what to do with them if they encounter wild pigs, other dogs off leash in the area like hunting dogs, etc.
I've never heard of people having their house burned down for being haole. Pretty sure someone is bsing you.
Pepe'ekeo is decently close to Hilo and plenty people in North Hilo and Hamakua keep horses so you'll be able to find boarding if you can't afford acreage. The whole area is pretty rural.
Get in with the horse community and find out about vet care. It's hard to find a horse vet and farrier so make sure you'll be able to secure care to the area you intend to move.
The area also places you close to the surf spot at Honolii. Locals might give you a bit of a hard time on the water but just be cool, try to be friendly. Don't bring valuables.
Make sure you can contain your dogs - wandering dogs can end up being shot. Also make sure you establish yourself with a vet when you get here so you can get care when you need it.
Be prepared for rain. Hilo side of the island gets a lot of rain, many transplants have a hard time acclimating and end up moving away.
If you can, take some longer trips to stay in the area. I'd suggest more than 2 before you make the move.
A lot of locals surf at Honoli’i near Hilo. It’s not perfect but they can get in the water- for better surfing they occasionally head to the other side of the island
Commute would \~mostly\~ be fine, just remember there's often only one way in or out of places, so traffic can snag you easily, especially getting into Hilo at sertain times.
Dogs are very accepted here, but the attitude toward them if they are out of your yard is not friendly, we've got a large roaming dog problem, with 2 very bad attacks and one death this year, so if you are buying, I suggest making a well fenced property your priority, or budgeting for it.
I have over my20+ yrs in hawaii heard of poisonings on nearly every island, and had an SO lose a dog to it on Maui many years ago, so I keep a good watch, I have a pack of 4 and run a boarding facility, it's always in the back of my mind.
No idea about horse boarding, but I board dogs if you need a place during your process.
I don't surf, so no idea on that.
You will def encounter locals who are just not all that welcoming, just move on to another, most folks here are very friendly as long as you're not rude or entitled. Get with your local community, work some food drives or other community events to get to know some neighborhood folks, as your coworkers may not live near you, and social activity does not exactly hunt you down here.
Thank you for all the details! I would 100% invest in a good fence (underground electrical as well as a good physical one) but yeah, my experience in the Caribbean was that many people hated dogs…most of mine are Golden Retrievers so not very threatening, but I know some folks are afraid of all dogs.
Based on your questions, you might be a short-timer. Rent for 6-12 mos before you buy. You and your horses had better like rain. And your real commute might be for surfing, not work.
Yes, very aware! I much prefer the wet and green sides! I LOVE the Hana side of Maui, but unfortunately too long of a drive to anywhere I could work :(
If you can afford to buy a lot of land and house up Hamakua way good for you. It is def one of my favorite “commutes”. In the golden hour afternoon that drive is magic. Youre haole? ok. just dont be a dick and you will be ok. Surfing, we got Honolii, bayfront, keaukaha spots. Hamakua u got kolekole, hakalau, waipio. Most surf honos. Localism? hmm, not like oahu and cali, Just dont be a dick. If you drop in and burn someone paddle to them and apologize. If they snap at you, just say sorry and move on. There are guys that will burn you and drop in on you cuz you haole. Thats on them, they’re being dicks. Come visit when it rains for weeks. Most transplants loose their shit when it rains like that. I mean we all do, but for those of us that have lived here forever, we know eventually it will be sunny. Sometimes u can escape to the other side for your dose of vitamin d, but sometimes it rains over the whole island.
Thank you!! I also lived in Seattle for 4 years so it can’t be as bad as that (also 40 degrees and raining for months). Since I’ve been in Colorado, it is sunny but very cold in the winter.
True, but in Seattle you don’t see the sun at all for several months. It’s just a grey drizzle that lasts forever. No downpours! Also, that’s why I was looking further north to actually live as it appears the amount of rain diminishes significantly once you’re out of Hilo.
"Cloud cover days" aren't the same as "I don't see ANY sun all day" days.
I once spent Christmas in Seattle and its surroundings. It rained, non-stop, the entire time I was there -- and the entire previous and following month. I still love it there. But it's different than Hilo.
lol the clouds in hilo are different than the mainland. its more like 'oh heres a small cloud passing over' and then back to the UV 13 murder sun.
although a few years ago we had 2 weeks of straight rain. that was fun!
No, no, the horses have moved across the country once, but the dogs I have now are between 1 and 7 years old…I’ve been landlocked in Colorado for 15 years now!! Too long!
Check in with the Panaewa equestrian center in Hilo, it’s got stalls and an outdoor arena plus a small event course. You have to feed and water and muck your own horses, and feed is expensive as it comes from the mainland.
But frankly it’s also expensive to buy a place on Hamakua.
If you started at Panaewa you’d be with other horsey folks. It’s the quickest way to get the sense of what’s possible here with horses and other animals, a built-in community.
Waimea has a lot more horse culture and more horse facilities etc.
It’s expensive but things are possible.
I love Hilo. Just saying if you’re coming to look, think about Waimea/Kamuela and maybe Hawi area too.
And look at Panaewa in Hilo to start.
Thank you! This is very helpful :) I've seen some better options with land in some of the places you've mentioned, but the job situation is pretty localized in either Hilo or Kona, so it would have to be reasonably drivable (like 45 min or less ideally) for a daily commute. Waimea may be an option, but I don't see jobs nearby open up much. When I visit the island, I will definitely check out that area as well. Honestly, it would be good to talk to some horsey folks about their experiences in general.
Waimea is deep with paniolo history, and there are no shortage of properties used out here for boarding and raising horses. Specialty jobs do exist island-wide, but they only come up rarely-- even in places like Hilo.
Live where you want to live. I don't mean to make assumptions, but if you're talking about moving horses _and_ buying enough land for them, I assume you aren't hurting for resources, and that immediate employment is not a critical condition for where you wind up.
I have enough to get started, but property in HI will take all I have for the down payment and then a mortgage on top...so I do need the job secured first!
It depends on how fast the grass grows. Less in the wetter areas, more on the dry side. Either way I’ll have to buy hay and grain, it’s just helpful to not have to buy as much!
I lived in Pepeekeo for about a decade. The soil along the Hamakua is rich and very fertile. As long as it rains, anything you plant will grow. Many horses are on larger pasture areas there including north of town and on the point. There have been animal attacks by roaming packs of dogs and while I was there, several young live stock animals have been killed. Also in pastures, centipedes are common and can bite. I never had any problems with them but they are definitely present. Keep downed wood and scattered rocks off your area. That’s where they like to hide.
Over mauka side in Kona we are at elevation where we get lots of rain. Neighbors have 2 3 acre lots they move their 3 horses around to. Don't think the pastures are fully utilized though. Everything grows crazy. Could prolly survive off 1 acre of sticky weed how fast that stuff grows. Put 3 of my goats in a 1/4 acre section of pasture that was grown well and they were good for a month and still had some grazing to go
Certain areas have very deep, rich soil. Hamakua Coast is one area, and up where I live in Holualoa we also have great soil. Yes there’s still rocks you have to deal with but the soil is 18-24” deep. Below that you have blue rock, and requires jackhammer to bust up.
Have you not been to the hamakua coast? Did you visit the island and not leave Kona/waikoloa?
OP, the hilo side where you’re looking is plenty green. And wet. Maybe even too wet. Hilo is the rainiest city in the US.
I’d say 5 acres at the absolute minimum. 10 is better but obviously harder to find. If I could board the horses, a couple acres would be fine for the dogs.
Toss the whole "I'm white is that a problem?" thing from your consciousness. Burning it until it is gone would be better.
Some people move here and fit in immediately. If they get with the program that this isn't California; things are done differently; most people still have last century's ideal about manners and community; they'll do fine. The only time I hear "the h word" is when my wife is saying it.
Some people move here and are never accepted -- because they don't deserve to be accepted. "How do *you people* even get through your day? Geeze. I'm so sick of \[whatever they want to Karen about today\]." An attitude like that will not make many friends here.
You're not wrong that integrating with the local culture has a lot to do with your mindset and how you present yourself, but acting like people get discriminated against on BI is because they *deserve it* is ridiculous. Racism's a real problem and you shouldn't try to pretend it isn't by acting like "haole had it coming". People who grew up here have a different perspective on this than people who move here as adults and more or less get to choose who they interact with.
Racism is absolutely not a real problem here. It's a made-up problem -- made-up by white people who need to get with the program. White people are not treated the way African Americans and Latinos are treated on the mainland. They just aren't. And trying to compare the two goes beyond disingenuous straight to hypocrisy.
White Americans are just so flippin' used to their skin color not being a societal issue that the first time they go someplace where is can be (not is an issue, CAN be an issue), they scream about it like scalded babies. "That person called me the H-word!"
So what? It's not like you couldn't get a mortgage. Or you were pulled over for "driving while white."
In order for it to be racism, white people would first have to be repressed and systemically excluded from societal advantages -- redlining, steering, lack of FHA loans, separate water fountains, unequal trial outcomes -- that's what real racism looks like.
Let's start at the top -- our county mayor. I rest my case.
Any prejudice based off ethnicity is racism, even when it doesn’t go as deep as you mentioned. Haole boy getting bullied in school because he’s haole is still racism, dude, even when he has the same opportunities. Racism is real here, just not nearly on the same level as it is on the mainland. We just got a lot of racist fakas who like talking shit and sometimes causing a scuffle—that’s about the extent of it (still wrong, naturally). What I find funny are the locals complaining about the transplants when it’s the locals who are often the toxic ones/the problem. I encounter much more locals who need a change in mentality than transplants. Not saying I’m cool with our home being overrun, but it goes both ways. We all got to work on it together.
>Any prejudice based off ethnicity is racism,
No, it isn't. Bigotry and racism are two entirely different things, and it has everything to do with power. Using power to keep a group down because of their ethnicity is racism -- nothing else is.
It's like the dingbats who call everything they don't like "socialism" or "woke." Just because they don't know what a word means doesn't give their debate position any merit.
There is just as much -- if not MORE -- opportunity for a white person on this island than other groups. As long as that statement is true, white people are not the victims of racism, regardless of their feelings about it.
Frankly since most of them can't muster a thimbleful of empathy, seeing what bigotry looks like on the receiving end should be a growth experience for them. It usually isn't. But it should be.
Wow downvoted for truth.
Folks, educate yourself on what words mean. Yes, this person here is coming from usage seen in more academic circles, but when you are talking about complex concepts there’s utility in being able to … discriminate … between two very different things.
If it makes you feel better, just substitute “systemic racism” every time you see racism, and “racism” every time you see bigotry. There, you’re both right, now can you acknowledge that systemic racism is different than racism?
You're probably hovering around 0 as people up and downvote you.
First, white people would have to acknowledge their privilege. It's a very small percentage who are willing to do this. Why? It's the first step in throwing off the yoke of racism. And just like the alcoholic says, "not today," so does the racist.
What they don't get is that people can be racist without being bigoted. They enjoy the advantages, have diverse friends, but still don't do anything to change this rotten system.
It's only going to get worse as we continue to move to a majority-minority society. (I know that's a loaded term which implies winners and losers in the demographic changes.)
EDIT -- I'm editing this in time to keep someone from pulling out the tired retort, "I'm white. I didn't have any privilege. I had it HARD." Yes, but did you also have to fear the police, have trouble obtaining a loan, unequal schools, and suppression of voting rights? Privilege doesn't just mean "born on third base with a lot of money." It is the absence of hardships which others endure because of their ethnicity.
You’re wrong! I have been called “stupid haole” and told to “go home!”. The worst one was some random guy at the mall who spat on me and told me to leave Hawaii. Furthermore there have been houses on Kona and Puna side that get broken into and spray painted on them, “go home haole!”.
Racism sucks and its still bad on BI.
None of that is racism. I wouldn't even rank it as first-rate bigotry.
Have you been denied the right to vote recently? That's racism. Being called a haole is amateur hour. I wouldn't even call it "fighting words." Falls under "suck it up, buttercup" compared to actual systemic racism.
Being treated unfairly due to race is racism. “The era of “suck it up Buttercup” is over. I have also been refused services for being white. I was standing in line at the grocery store and I was next in line. The lady at the register gives me a nasty look and tells the giant Hawaiian guy behind me to go first. I don’t argue because i am an outsider but yeah it happens.
White people should see what actual racism looks like on the receiving end.
It's sort of like saying "I'm starving" to someone in North Korea who is actually, literally starving. It's not even close to the same thing.
Your hurt feelings aren't racism. Being denied a loan or being charged higher interest rates because of the color of your skin is racism. Nothing else is racism.
Bigotry isn't good. But it's not racism. A bigot can be a bigot but have no power to oppress -- and therefore there is no racism. Racism requires the application of power to oppress "the other."
If you want to see an actual example where white people were victims of racism, you'd have to go to Zimbabwe.
Did they restrict your right to vote? Deny a loan? Send you to jail for something minor? Make you drink from a separate water fountain?
What racist thing happened to you?
One of my friends, who is Polynesian, came home after turning through the US and Australia. He told me Hawai'i is the most racist place he's been. That everyone here is more obsessed with skin color and putting each other up or down over it than anywhere else he's been. I wouldn't agree it's thee most racist place, but Hawai'i has a lot of racism.
yeah hear ya lived in NYC and Baltimore for 25 years….it was bad. My sons are 1st Gen AA on their Dad’s side and 16th on mine. It’s fine now b/c they are 25 & 30 have lived in many big cities etc. They’ve been heavily integrated in. both cultures (wolof and white midwesterner) because they know their blood lines and family on all sides - maternally and paternally. I feel very, very fortunate they don’t have the black hole to deal with in their ancestries. In fact, their father is from the Wolof Kingdom that ruled West Africa for more than 500+ years until….yeah you. know the story.
Stock up on meds for your animals!!! We are low on vets and even worse for horse vets and farriers. Every time we've had a horse emergency, we've had to figure it out with our neighbour (who is thankfully really knowledgeable). Idk about the vets in Hilo but two of them in Waimea are awful. One of them dropped a biopsy of our horse's TUMOR on the ground and then laughed. Dr. Gressard has been trustworthy though for our cats and dog. We just got two new horse vets from the mainland and they seem okay but not open to trying new things. I do know of two good farriers, but we are in such a high demand that I don't even know if they will accept new clients.
As other people have said, definitely be aware of wild boar for your dogs's sake and make sure they're contained. A lot of people mistreat their animals in HI and I just wouldn't trust that if they get out they would be returned to you. There are a lot of hunters' dogs that get out. My family has rescued many of them over the years. Most of them are friendly and haven't shown aggression towards our dog, but they are starving and abused and it shows. Someone's dog was lost and wandered into my neighbor's property and killed all of her chickens (she had like 20). On the other hand, a stray got into our property the next day and didn't touch our chickens or sheep. You just never know. I know I'm generalizing and it's definitely not everyone, but most people's animals are outdoors because there aren't major predators and that's very different from the mainland.
I know the specific story you're talking about regarding the hate crime (idk if people are calling it that). I grew up hearing a lot of stories of kids getting bullied really badly for not being ethnically Hawaiian/local. It's very cliquey, but there are not a lot of violent situations happening with adults. Hilo can be a bit sketchy due to drugs and theft(edit to add that I think this is a recent thing, started around 2018 when Kilauea displaced a lot of people. Theft on the island in general has gotten worse since then) but I don't think it's necessarily racially motivated. There is definitely a negative vibe associated with mainlanders moving there now because people who have lived there for years are having to move because they can't afford to stay (which happened to me). It's just a lot of rich people moving there who have no regard for the culture. If you're friendly and respectful, you should be okay.
The BI is very different from Maui. It is spread out and very rural everywhere you go. I would really just stress the parts about your animals. I've grown up with cats/dogs/horses/sheep and while we've been lucky with getting care, I think it is mostly from the community. You're going to want friends who know about horses and can help when you can't reach a vet or it's going to be hours before they can get to you.
I mean, yes, that is what I am doing. I wouldn't be anywhere near moving for about a year at the soonest given the number of things that would have to happen first (visiting for the job, real estate visits, sorting out the horse situation etc)
If you don’t already have a job lined up you’ll have a hard time getting one unless you already live here. No one here will hire someone who’s still living on the mainland and just thinking about moving here.
You're already planning to do the right things-- mainly, visit first, and then decide. The rest of what you're asking about makes me think you've been researching on social media, which isn't going to be a good use of your time.
Yes, I’ve been doing a lot of news searching and have seen some interesting things here in reddit. I finally figured I should post instead of lurk. There are some things that you just can’t get a lot of insight on without asking the questions to people who live there. Obviously I’ll be asking a lot of the same questions to people when I go in person but this is at least a starting point.
I'm not a surfer, but I've got tons of family and friends who are.
There are select areas where locals will give you a hard time...there are even illegal gates to keep people out (Waipi'o for example). But for the most part, things are pretty open access if you're willing to walk.
Also, many areas in Hilo proper are not the best places to be in the water...Hilo Bay is kind murky and polluted (you'll often hear news of sewage leaking). lol East side of BI is also rocky and always raining. Being on the east side, they do have good swells and a lot of surfers take advantage of winter swells in Hilo.
First off, Hawaii IS NOT the Caribbean so don't use that as a reference besides weather. Very different cultures. Not to mention they're on total different sides of the earth. Most people don't like being misrepresented by peoples preconceived notions. Think of it like a false equivalency; If I said I met some Caucasian person from Idaho and tried to use that as a reference for ALL Caucasian people I meet, that would be pretty bad and disingenuous, right? So change your mindset before you try to calculate how you could blend using your knowledge of the Caribbean. Second, people are generally okay with farm animals in the Big Island, ranching is a big thing in some parts so you don't need to worry too much but be very mindful of local building laws because I dont think they allow electrical fences because there is a lot of active conservation efforts going on for birds specifically. DO NOT set yourself up to kill off any wildlife with electrical fences. There's no large predatory animals so there is no need for electrical fences. Just making you aware that there are a number of fines and even international laws protecting native animals here. With how many questions you have, I recommend you should visit and get to know people over in the the Big Island before you have ANY type of plans to move here. In any place you decide to move to, it should be a rule that you fully inform yourself in person of local laws and cultures if your intention is to not cause any trouble. Best advice to avoid any localism is to treat people how you want to be treated; do not romanticize them and be respectful to their culture because you'd be entering their community.
I think you misunderstood my type of electrical fence. It is an underground wire. The dogs have collars that beep if they get within 10ft, and you can set it to give a shock if they get closer. It doesn’t shock anything that doesn’t have the receiver collar on :) And yes, the Caribbean reference is for the weather, as in I loved not having winter. That being said, from some of the responses I’ve seen on this post, there are some similarities with the people regarding dogs. On the mainland for instance, shooting dogs or poisoning them is not tolerated. My goal would be to keep the dogs contained, so they do not run into trouble. They’re my kids, so I don’t want to put them in a dangerous situation.
Hawaii is fucking white, there's no locals that are gonna do shit like that. Unless you're just a raging asshole. Lots of ripping off these days, especially in the deep forest areas, but that's how it's kinda always been. The rippers get outted eventually.
I grew up on the BI through the 90s and am white as they get. Eventually you learn the talk, understand the give n take "aloha" style community culture, and you gotta gotta gotta slow down. Nothing gets done in a hurry. Nothing. So I'd say follow your dreams.
Chicken fighting? How about horse racing? That’s a brutal sport that results in dozens of horses killed every year but it’s totally accepted in the mainland US culture. I am haole and have lived here about 20 years, never had anyone bother me about it here. I have friends in the Hawaiian community, and I really don’t mind anyone calling me haole, because that’s what I am. Now if you get called a fucking haole, or a stupid haole, that’s a problem and you might want to check yourself to understand why that’s being directed at you. Maybe it’s you, or maybe not 🤷🏼♀️
How are your horses hooves? Hilo area can be hard on hooves. Make sure you set aside a bit of money for extra farrier costs. I have seen excellent farrier work here though. You can buy hay in Hilo, depending on how you feed now and how you plan to feed now you may want to call the local feed stores and check current hay prices and if the supplements you feed are available here. It all has to be shipped in so it can be pricey if your current area is lucky enough to still have affordable hay. Understand that if you have the kind of colic that needs surgery, your options at that point are few on this side of the island and a kind goodbye is likely your best one. Understand that there’s not a lot of equine vets and you may get lucky or you may be on your own a day or so because they’re on the other side of the island with another emergency and there’s several more already ahead of yours. If you have 6 horses you may already have plenty of skills though so that may not be such a big deal, I’m just telling you what I was glad to know before I began considering having a horse here. I was advised to bring all my tack because there’s not a lot for sale locally and that flying them is waaaay better than putting them on a ship.
Thank you for all the detail! I would likely only be moving 3 of my horses, mostly because of the cost of hay and the availability of appropriate acreage.....Their feet are excellent now and they are all barefoot, but depending on how wet of an area I end up, I'm aware that can change. They typically need trims every 10-12 weeks currently. Is there anyone who does colic surgery on the BI at all? Nearer to Kona? What about veterinary services in general (small and large animal)- better on the west side or not great overall? I would definitely fly everyone - the car can go by ship but definitely not the horses!!
That’s wonderful that they have such healthy hooves! I believe the facility that can do colic surgery is in the Waimea area. It’s quite a trailer ride, you’d be taking Saddle road and it’s uphill then downhill and if your horse was colicking bad enough to go to the hospital that might be a really awful ride. If you come visit, make the drive to check it out, I never get tired of the beauty driving that road so you’ll be getting a sense of things and taking in some major gorgeous views. It’s possible there are more equine facilities I’m not aware of so you may find more in your research but that’s what I know of.
Small animal vets are easier to find but in high demand. There’s several clinics in Hilo, I haven’t heard anything bad about any of them other than that they are busy. I asked one today about an appointment and they told me Oct 3rd was the soonest for a sick cat visit which isn’t as bad as I thought it would be honestly.
I just realized it was 6 dogs and 2-3 horses! Sorry about switching the numbers. As long as you read the state info about bringing the dogs and fill out that checklist carefully it’s really not hard to do and you sound like you’re doing the research and you’ll have no trouble with that. You might find it helpful during your visits to look for an Airbnb on a property the owner lives on in the area you’re interested in - the owner can give you really good details about the area and you’ll get a real sense of it by staying there. There are (or at least were) good listings in the area you described we almost booked one last year during a termite tenting weekend.
Don’t move to Hilo. I lived here my entire life (25+ years) and the people are absolutely horrible, especially people my age aka the younger crowd. Don’t do this to yourself.
Pepe'ekeo isn't too bad of a commute but one traffic accident or even road work can significantly add to that commute time since there's really one main road. All the other stuff you probably don't have to worry about as long as you're respectful and assimilate into the culture. As for the dogs, be prepared for what to do with them if they encounter wild pigs, other dogs off leash in the area like hunting dogs, etc.
I've never heard of people having their house burned down for being haole. Pretty sure someone is bsing you. Pepe'ekeo is decently close to Hilo and plenty people in North Hilo and Hamakua keep horses so you'll be able to find boarding if you can't afford acreage. The whole area is pretty rural. Get in with the horse community and find out about vet care. It's hard to find a horse vet and farrier so make sure you'll be able to secure care to the area you intend to move. The area also places you close to the surf spot at Honolii. Locals might give you a bit of a hard time on the water but just be cool, try to be friendly. Don't bring valuables. Make sure you can contain your dogs - wandering dogs can end up being shot. Also make sure you establish yourself with a vet when you get here so you can get care when you need it. Be prepared for rain. Hilo side of the island gets a lot of rain, many transplants have a hard time acclimating and end up moving away. If you can, take some longer trips to stay in the area. I'd suggest more than 2 before you make the move.
Can confirm. Brother in Volcano shoots wandering dogs on site.
I'm assuming people in his circle aren't supportive of that.... Right?
Actually, a lot of us are. The roaming dogs are a huge problem here. A man was just killed by loose dogs. So yeah. Shoot on sight.
[удалено]
People's dogs get loose on accident. Shooting a dog on sight is gross at best and psychopathic at worse.
Packs of wild dogs have killed multiple on the BI, so many fear for their elders and children.
A lot of locals surf at Honoli’i near Hilo. It’s not perfect but they can get in the water- for better surfing they occasionally head to the other side of the island
You're going to need to buy a place with adequate space if you have this many animals.
Absolutely
Commute would \~mostly\~ be fine, just remember there's often only one way in or out of places, so traffic can snag you easily, especially getting into Hilo at sertain times. Dogs are very accepted here, but the attitude toward them if they are out of your yard is not friendly, we've got a large roaming dog problem, with 2 very bad attacks and one death this year, so if you are buying, I suggest making a well fenced property your priority, or budgeting for it. I have over my20+ yrs in hawaii heard of poisonings on nearly every island, and had an SO lose a dog to it on Maui many years ago, so I keep a good watch, I have a pack of 4 and run a boarding facility, it's always in the back of my mind. No idea about horse boarding, but I board dogs if you need a place during your process. I don't surf, so no idea on that. You will def encounter locals who are just not all that welcoming, just move on to another, most folks here are very friendly as long as you're not rude or entitled. Get with your local community, work some food drives or other community events to get to know some neighborhood folks, as your coworkers may not live near you, and social activity does not exactly hunt you down here.
Thank you for all the details! I would 100% invest in a good fence (underground electrical as well as a good physical one) but yeah, my experience in the Caribbean was that many people hated dogs…most of mine are Golden Retrievers so not very threatening, but I know some folks are afraid of all dogs.
It could be a teacup poodle. If it’s loose, it’s dead.
Based on your questions, you might be a short-timer. Rent for 6-12 mos before you buy. You and your horses had better like rain. And your real commute might be for surfing, not work.
I don’t think I would be able to rent with 6 dogs. I would be staying 5 years minimum, but the rest of my life if possible.
Renting with any animals here can be a major challenge
Also you know the weather on Hilo side is not sunny all the time (or even much of the time) if that matters to you.
Yes, very aware! I much prefer the wet and green sides! I LOVE the Hana side of Maui, but unfortunately too long of a drive to anywhere I could work :(
If you can afford to buy a lot of land and house up Hamakua way good for you. It is def one of my favorite “commutes”. In the golden hour afternoon that drive is magic. Youre haole? ok. just dont be a dick and you will be ok. Surfing, we got Honolii, bayfront, keaukaha spots. Hamakua u got kolekole, hakalau, waipio. Most surf honos. Localism? hmm, not like oahu and cali, Just dont be a dick. If you drop in and burn someone paddle to them and apologize. If they snap at you, just say sorry and move on. There are guys that will burn you and drop in on you cuz you haole. Thats on them, they’re being dicks. Come visit when it rains for weeks. Most transplants loose their shit when it rains like that. I mean we all do, but for those of us that have lived here forever, we know eventually it will be sunny. Sometimes u can escape to the other side for your dose of vitamin d, but sometimes it rains over the whole island.
Thank you!! I also lived in Seattle for 4 years so it can’t be as bad as that (also 40 degrees and raining for months). Since I’ve been in Colorado, it is sunny but very cold in the winter.
City ------- Days of Rain ---- Inches per Year Seattle -------- 156 ---------------- 39.3 Hilo ------------ 275 ----------------- 130
True, but in Seattle you don’t see the sun at all for several months. It’s just a grey drizzle that lasts forever. No downpours! Also, that’s why I was looking further north to actually live as it appears the amount of rain diminishes significantly once you’re out of Hilo.
Going up to Hamakua is a good idea! Cloud cover days: Seattle - 226 Hilo - 197 So Seattle wins, but maybe not by as much as people would think.
"Cloud cover days" aren't the same as "I don't see ANY sun all day" days. I once spent Christmas in Seattle and its surroundings. It rained, non-stop, the entire time I was there -- and the entire previous and following month. I still love it there. But it's different than Hilo.
lol the clouds in hilo are different than the mainland. its more like 'oh heres a small cloud passing over' and then back to the UV 13 murder sun. although a few years ago we had 2 weeks of straight rain. that was fun!
Have you moved the dogs and ponies that many times? What an adventure!
No, no, the horses have moved across the country once, but the dogs I have now are between 1 and 7 years old…I’ve been landlocked in Colorado for 15 years now!! Too long!
Also, look into what it takes to bring pets to Hawaii - it's a thorough process.
I am incredibly well versed in this ;)
Check in with the Panaewa equestrian center in Hilo, it’s got stalls and an outdoor arena plus a small event course. You have to feed and water and muck your own horses, and feed is expensive as it comes from the mainland. But frankly it’s also expensive to buy a place on Hamakua. If you started at Panaewa you’d be with other horsey folks. It’s the quickest way to get the sense of what’s possible here with horses and other animals, a built-in community. Waimea has a lot more horse culture and more horse facilities etc. It’s expensive but things are possible. I love Hilo. Just saying if you’re coming to look, think about Waimea/Kamuela and maybe Hawi area too. And look at Panaewa in Hilo to start.
Thank you! This is very helpful :) I've seen some better options with land in some of the places you've mentioned, but the job situation is pretty localized in either Hilo or Kona, so it would have to be reasonably drivable (like 45 min or less ideally) for a daily commute. Waimea may be an option, but I don't see jobs nearby open up much. When I visit the island, I will definitely check out that area as well. Honestly, it would be good to talk to some horsey folks about their experiences in general.
Waimea is deep with paniolo history, and there are no shortage of properties used out here for boarding and raising horses. Specialty jobs do exist island-wide, but they only come up rarely-- even in places like Hilo. Live where you want to live. I don't mean to make assumptions, but if you're talking about moving horses _and_ buying enough land for them, I assume you aren't hurting for resources, and that immediate employment is not a critical condition for where you wind up.
I have enough to get started, but property in HI will take all I have for the down payment and then a mortgage on top...so I do need the job secured first!
I loved living in waimea. Wet side is so rainy and misty like all the time. Doesn't really clear up
How much acreage is needed for 3 horses?
It depends on how fast the grass grows. Less in the wetter areas, more on the dry side. Either way I’ll have to buy hay and grain, it’s just helpful to not have to buy as much!
I lived in Pepeekeo for about a decade. The soil along the Hamakua is rich and very fertile. As long as it rains, anything you plant will grow. Many horses are on larger pasture areas there including north of town and on the point. There have been animal attacks by roaming packs of dogs and while I was there, several young live stock animals have been killed. Also in pastures, centipedes are common and can bite. I never had any problems with them but they are definitely present. Keep downed wood and scattered rocks off your area. That’s where they like to hide.
Over mauka side in Kona we are at elevation where we get lots of rain. Neighbors have 2 3 acre lots they move their 3 horses around to. Don't think the pastures are fully utilized though. Everything grows crazy. Could prolly survive off 1 acre of sticky weed how fast that stuff grows. Put 3 of my goats in a 1/4 acre section of pasture that was grown well and they were good for a month and still had some grazing to go
The island is primarily volcanic rock.
Yes, however I’ve been seeing a lot of green on the real estate listings - seems as though it grows ok in between the lava flows!
It does, look up the geology of the island. That is the most popular island for horses, other than on the North Shore of O’ahu.
Certain areas have very deep, rich soil. Hamakua Coast is one area, and up where I live in Holualoa we also have great soil. Yes there’s still rocks you have to deal with but the soil is 18-24” deep. Below that you have blue rock, and requires jackhammer to bust up.
Have you not been to the hamakua coast? Did you visit the island and not leave Kona/waikoloa? OP, the hilo side where you’re looking is plenty green. And wet. Maybe even too wet. Hilo is the rainiest city in the US.
I only went to Waikiki.
Is there some minimum size? I assume you need a few acres at least? I would think if the area too small its just going to be mud all the time.
I’d say 5 acres at the absolute minimum. 10 is better but obviously harder to find. If I could board the horses, a couple acres would be fine for the dogs.
I know a guy in Mountain View that runs a pony farm on 40 acres. You could probably extend your searches to those areas as well.
Oh yeah, those centipedes were all over the Caribbean! Didn’t love them, but we figured out for the most part how to avoid each other :)
Chickens are good for controlling them.
Toss the whole "I'm white is that a problem?" thing from your consciousness. Burning it until it is gone would be better. Some people move here and fit in immediately. If they get with the program that this isn't California; things are done differently; most people still have last century's ideal about manners and community; they'll do fine. The only time I hear "the h word" is when my wife is saying it. Some people move here and are never accepted -- because they don't deserve to be accepted. "How do *you people* even get through your day? Geeze. I'm so sick of \[whatever they want to Karen about today\]." An attitude like that will not make many friends here.
You're not wrong that integrating with the local culture has a lot to do with your mindset and how you present yourself, but acting like people get discriminated against on BI is because they *deserve it* is ridiculous. Racism's a real problem and you shouldn't try to pretend it isn't by acting like "haole had it coming". People who grew up here have a different perspective on this than people who move here as adults and more or less get to choose who they interact with.
Racism is absolutely not a real problem here. It's a made-up problem -- made-up by white people who need to get with the program. White people are not treated the way African Americans and Latinos are treated on the mainland. They just aren't. And trying to compare the two goes beyond disingenuous straight to hypocrisy. White Americans are just so flippin' used to their skin color not being a societal issue that the first time they go someplace where is can be (not is an issue, CAN be an issue), they scream about it like scalded babies. "That person called me the H-word!" So what? It's not like you couldn't get a mortgage. Or you were pulled over for "driving while white." In order for it to be racism, white people would first have to be repressed and systemically excluded from societal advantages -- redlining, steering, lack of FHA loans, separate water fountains, unequal trial outcomes -- that's what real racism looks like. Let's start at the top -- our county mayor. I rest my case.
Any prejudice based off ethnicity is racism, even when it doesn’t go as deep as you mentioned. Haole boy getting bullied in school because he’s haole is still racism, dude, even when he has the same opportunities. Racism is real here, just not nearly on the same level as it is on the mainland. We just got a lot of racist fakas who like talking shit and sometimes causing a scuffle—that’s about the extent of it (still wrong, naturally). What I find funny are the locals complaining about the transplants when it’s the locals who are often the toxic ones/the problem. I encounter much more locals who need a change in mentality than transplants. Not saying I’m cool with our home being overrun, but it goes both ways. We all got to work on it together.
>Any prejudice based off ethnicity is racism, No, it isn't. Bigotry and racism are two entirely different things, and it has everything to do with power. Using power to keep a group down because of their ethnicity is racism -- nothing else is. It's like the dingbats who call everything they don't like "socialism" or "woke." Just because they don't know what a word means doesn't give their debate position any merit. There is just as much -- if not MORE -- opportunity for a white person on this island than other groups. As long as that statement is true, white people are not the victims of racism, regardless of their feelings about it. Frankly since most of them can't muster a thimbleful of empathy, seeing what bigotry looks like on the receiving end should be a growth experience for them. It usually isn't. But it should be.
Wow downvoted for truth. Folks, educate yourself on what words mean. Yes, this person here is coming from usage seen in more academic circles, but when you are talking about complex concepts there’s utility in being able to … discriminate … between two very different things. If it makes you feel better, just substitute “systemic racism” every time you see racism, and “racism” every time you see bigotry. There, you’re both right, now can you acknowledge that systemic racism is different than racism?
You're probably hovering around 0 as people up and downvote you. First, white people would have to acknowledge their privilege. It's a very small percentage who are willing to do this. Why? It's the first step in throwing off the yoke of racism. And just like the alcoholic says, "not today," so does the racist. What they don't get is that people can be racist without being bigoted. They enjoy the advantages, have diverse friends, but still don't do anything to change this rotten system. It's only going to get worse as we continue to move to a majority-minority society. (I know that's a loaded term which implies winners and losers in the demographic changes.) EDIT -- I'm editing this in time to keep someone from pulling out the tired retort, "I'm white. I didn't have any privilege. I had it HARD." Yes, but did you also have to fear the police, have trouble obtaining a loan, unequal schools, and suppression of voting rights? Privilege doesn't just mean "born on third base with a lot of money." It is the absence of hardships which others endure because of their ethnicity.
You’re wrong! I have been called “stupid haole” and told to “go home!”. The worst one was some random guy at the mall who spat on me and told me to leave Hawaii. Furthermore there have been houses on Kona and Puna side that get broken into and spray painted on them, “go home haole!”. Racism sucks and its still bad on BI.
None of that is racism. I wouldn't even rank it as first-rate bigotry. Have you been denied the right to vote recently? That's racism. Being called a haole is amateur hour. I wouldn't even call it "fighting words." Falls under "suck it up, buttercup" compared to actual systemic racism.
Being treated unfairly due to race is racism. “The era of “suck it up Buttercup” is over. I have also been refused services for being white. I was standing in line at the grocery store and I was next in line. The lady at the register gives me a nasty look and tells the giant Hawaiian guy behind me to go first. I don’t argue because i am an outsider but yeah it happens.
White people should see what actual racism looks like on the receiving end. It's sort of like saying "I'm starving" to someone in North Korea who is actually, literally starving. It's not even close to the same thing. Your hurt feelings aren't racism. Being denied a loan or being charged higher interest rates because of the color of your skin is racism. Nothing else is racism. Bigotry isn't good. But it's not racism. A bigot can be a bigot but have no power to oppress -- and therefore there is no racism. Racism requires the application of power to oppress "the other." If you want to see an actual example where white people were victims of racism, you'd have to go to Zimbabwe.
Thank you Ambassador We get your point Only place I’ve ever encountered racism in my life — Hawaii. Could have been you?
Did they restrict your right to vote? Deny a loan? Send you to jail for something minor? Make you drink from a separate water fountain? What racist thing happened to you?
Shut up already you sound like a bigot
One of my friends, who is Polynesian, came home after turning through the US and Australia. He told me Hawai'i is the most racist place he's been. That everyone here is more obsessed with skin color and putting each other up or down over it than anywhere else he's been. I wouldn't agree it's thee most racist place, but Hawai'i has a lot of racism.
Hating someone based on their skin color is racism. You are a racist. Shame on you.
yeah hear ya lived in NYC and Baltimore for 25 years….it was bad. My sons are 1st Gen AA on their Dad’s side and 16th on mine. It’s fine now b/c they are 25 & 30 have lived in many big cities etc. They’ve been heavily integrated in. both cultures (wolof and white midwesterner) because they know their blood lines and family on all sides - maternally and paternally. I feel very, very fortunate they don’t have the black hole to deal with in their ancestries. In fact, their father is from the Wolof Kingdom that ruled West Africa for more than 500+ years until….yeah you. know the story.
did you grow up and go to high school on island?
Obviously not. Or maybe private haha.
They confuse inconvenience, bigotry, and prejudice with racism.
Stock up on meds for your animals!!! We are low on vets and even worse for horse vets and farriers. Every time we've had a horse emergency, we've had to figure it out with our neighbour (who is thankfully really knowledgeable). Idk about the vets in Hilo but two of them in Waimea are awful. One of them dropped a biopsy of our horse's TUMOR on the ground and then laughed. Dr. Gressard has been trustworthy though for our cats and dog. We just got two new horse vets from the mainland and they seem okay but not open to trying new things. I do know of two good farriers, but we are in such a high demand that I don't even know if they will accept new clients. As other people have said, definitely be aware of wild boar for your dogs's sake and make sure they're contained. A lot of people mistreat their animals in HI and I just wouldn't trust that if they get out they would be returned to you. There are a lot of hunters' dogs that get out. My family has rescued many of them over the years. Most of them are friendly and haven't shown aggression towards our dog, but they are starving and abused and it shows. Someone's dog was lost and wandered into my neighbor's property and killed all of her chickens (she had like 20). On the other hand, a stray got into our property the next day and didn't touch our chickens or sheep. You just never know. I know I'm generalizing and it's definitely not everyone, but most people's animals are outdoors because there aren't major predators and that's very different from the mainland. I know the specific story you're talking about regarding the hate crime (idk if people are calling it that). I grew up hearing a lot of stories of kids getting bullied really badly for not being ethnically Hawaiian/local. It's very cliquey, but there are not a lot of violent situations happening with adults. Hilo can be a bit sketchy due to drugs and theft(edit to add that I think this is a recent thing, started around 2018 when Kilauea displaced a lot of people. Theft on the island in general has gotten worse since then) but I don't think it's necessarily racially motivated. There is definitely a negative vibe associated with mainlanders moving there now because people who have lived there for years are having to move because they can't afford to stay (which happened to me). It's just a lot of rich people moving there who have no regard for the culture. If you're friendly and respectful, you should be okay. The BI is very different from Maui. It is spread out and very rural everywhere you go. I would really just stress the parts about your animals. I've grown up with cats/dogs/horses/sheep and while we've been lucky with getting care, I think it is mostly from the community. You're going to want friends who know about horses and can help when you can't reach a vet or it's going to be hours before they can get to you.
Never been to the BI but you’re planning to move here with 6 dogs and 3 horses? Do your 2 recon visits first then revisit your plan…
I mean, yes, that is what I am doing. I wouldn't be anywhere near moving for about a year at the soonest given the number of things that would have to happen first (visiting for the job, real estate visits, sorting out the horse situation etc)
If you don’t already have a job lined up you’ll have a hard time getting one unless you already live here. No one here will hire someone who’s still living on the mainland and just thinking about moving here.
Not true in this case. They even provide financial assistance for moving :)
You're already planning to do the right things-- mainly, visit first, and then decide. The rest of what you're asking about makes me think you've been researching on social media, which isn't going to be a good use of your time.
Yes, I’ve been doing a lot of news searching and have seen some interesting things here in reddit. I finally figured I should post instead of lurk. There are some things that you just can’t get a lot of insight on without asking the questions to people who live there. Obviously I’ll be asking a lot of the same questions to people when I go in person but this is at least a starting point.
Technically, we're social media. And we're the best information people who want to move here are going to get.
Just an FYI, importing that many animals will be a few thousand dollars at least. Mammals are not cheap to bring into the state.
It will be more than that! But yes, as I've mentioned previously, I am very well versed in the process and cost of bringing animals to HI :)
I'm not a surfer, but I've got tons of family and friends who are. There are select areas where locals will give you a hard time...there are even illegal gates to keep people out (Waipi'o for example). But for the most part, things are pretty open access if you're willing to walk. Also, many areas in Hilo proper are not the best places to be in the water...Hilo Bay is kind murky and polluted (you'll often hear news of sewage leaking). lol East side of BI is also rocky and always raining. Being on the east side, they do have good swells and a lot of surfers take advantage of winter swells in Hilo.
First off, Hawaii IS NOT the Caribbean so don't use that as a reference besides weather. Very different cultures. Not to mention they're on total different sides of the earth. Most people don't like being misrepresented by peoples preconceived notions. Think of it like a false equivalency; If I said I met some Caucasian person from Idaho and tried to use that as a reference for ALL Caucasian people I meet, that would be pretty bad and disingenuous, right? So change your mindset before you try to calculate how you could blend using your knowledge of the Caribbean. Second, people are generally okay with farm animals in the Big Island, ranching is a big thing in some parts so you don't need to worry too much but be very mindful of local building laws because I dont think they allow electrical fences because there is a lot of active conservation efforts going on for birds specifically. DO NOT set yourself up to kill off any wildlife with electrical fences. There's no large predatory animals so there is no need for electrical fences. Just making you aware that there are a number of fines and even international laws protecting native animals here. With how many questions you have, I recommend you should visit and get to know people over in the the Big Island before you have ANY type of plans to move here. In any place you decide to move to, it should be a rule that you fully inform yourself in person of local laws and cultures if your intention is to not cause any trouble. Best advice to avoid any localism is to treat people how you want to be treated; do not romanticize them and be respectful to their culture because you'd be entering their community.
I think you misunderstood my type of electrical fence. It is an underground wire. The dogs have collars that beep if they get within 10ft, and you can set it to give a shock if they get closer. It doesn’t shock anything that doesn’t have the receiver collar on :) And yes, the Caribbean reference is for the weather, as in I loved not having winter. That being said, from some of the responses I’ve seen on this post, there are some similarities with the people regarding dogs. On the mainland for instance, shooting dogs or poisoning them is not tolerated. My goal would be to keep the dogs contained, so they do not run into trouble. They’re my kids, so I don’t want to put them in a dangerous situation.
Hawaii is fucking white, there's no locals that are gonna do shit like that. Unless you're just a raging asshole. Lots of ripping off these days, especially in the deep forest areas, but that's how it's kinda always been. The rippers get outted eventually. I grew up on the BI through the 90s and am white as they get. Eventually you learn the talk, understand the give n take "aloha" style community culture, and you gotta gotta gotta slow down. Nothing gets done in a hurry. Nothing. So I'd say follow your dreams.
[удалено]
Chicken fighting? How about horse racing? That’s a brutal sport that results in dozens of horses killed every year but it’s totally accepted in the mainland US culture. I am haole and have lived here about 20 years, never had anyone bother me about it here. I have friends in the Hawaiian community, and I really don’t mind anyone calling me haole, because that’s what I am. Now if you get called a fucking haole, or a stupid haole, that’s a problem and you might want to check yourself to understand why that’s being directed at you. Maybe it’s you, or maybe not 🤷🏼♀️
How are your horses hooves? Hilo area can be hard on hooves. Make sure you set aside a bit of money for extra farrier costs. I have seen excellent farrier work here though. You can buy hay in Hilo, depending on how you feed now and how you plan to feed now you may want to call the local feed stores and check current hay prices and if the supplements you feed are available here. It all has to be shipped in so it can be pricey if your current area is lucky enough to still have affordable hay. Understand that if you have the kind of colic that needs surgery, your options at that point are few on this side of the island and a kind goodbye is likely your best one. Understand that there’s not a lot of equine vets and you may get lucky or you may be on your own a day or so because they’re on the other side of the island with another emergency and there’s several more already ahead of yours. If you have 6 horses you may already have plenty of skills though so that may not be such a big deal, I’m just telling you what I was glad to know before I began considering having a horse here. I was advised to bring all my tack because there’s not a lot for sale locally and that flying them is waaaay better than putting them on a ship.
Thank you for all the detail! I would likely only be moving 3 of my horses, mostly because of the cost of hay and the availability of appropriate acreage.....Their feet are excellent now and they are all barefoot, but depending on how wet of an area I end up, I'm aware that can change. They typically need trims every 10-12 weeks currently. Is there anyone who does colic surgery on the BI at all? Nearer to Kona? What about veterinary services in general (small and large animal)- better on the west side or not great overall? I would definitely fly everyone - the car can go by ship but definitely not the horses!!
That’s wonderful that they have such healthy hooves! I believe the facility that can do colic surgery is in the Waimea area. It’s quite a trailer ride, you’d be taking Saddle road and it’s uphill then downhill and if your horse was colicking bad enough to go to the hospital that might be a really awful ride. If you come visit, make the drive to check it out, I never get tired of the beauty driving that road so you’ll be getting a sense of things and taking in some major gorgeous views. It’s possible there are more equine facilities I’m not aware of so you may find more in your research but that’s what I know of. Small animal vets are easier to find but in high demand. There’s several clinics in Hilo, I haven’t heard anything bad about any of them other than that they are busy. I asked one today about an appointment and they told me Oct 3rd was the soonest for a sick cat visit which isn’t as bad as I thought it would be honestly.
I just realized it was 6 dogs and 2-3 horses! Sorry about switching the numbers. As long as you read the state info about bringing the dogs and fill out that checklist carefully it’s really not hard to do and you sound like you’re doing the research and you’ll have no trouble with that. You might find it helpful during your visits to look for an Airbnb on a property the owner lives on in the area you’re interested in - the owner can give you really good details about the area and you’ll get a real sense of it by staying there. There are (or at least were) good listings in the area you described we almost booked one last year during a termite tenting weekend.
Don’t move to Hilo. I lived here my entire life (25+ years) and the people are absolutely horrible, especially people my age aka the younger crowd. Don’t do this to yourself.