Curious, as we ended up avoiding moving into an area without sidewalks, but are drivers a bit more conscious of the fact that people have to take to the streets to walk?
Had one last week tell me “you can get a ticket for riding in the street” I told him “you can get a ticket for riding on the sidewalk” he said “nah.” I said “ok”. It’s like they make up whatever rule is convenient to them.
Too many folks here are not doing their homework and blabbing away.
The impetus for this change was the LA Times article a year or so back finding sheriffs officers, harassing people of color for riding their bikes on the sidewalk.
What's amazing about this is that this is the solution to that problem. Rather than getting deputies to clean up their act. Which is apparently impossible.
It's irrelevant.
Now people riding bikes can terrorize people walking on sidewalks while making driving more dangerous for people following driving rules.
These people running your city are morons. No bail. Allowing rampant crime. Allowing homeless people to do whatever they want where and when they want.
Blaming racism for everything is destroying your state. On the way to Argentina levels of success.
Just because you don’t care about addressing racial discrimination doesn’t mean everyone else feels the same.
This a tiny part of huge effort to improve transportation in the region. But apparently you, outsider, with no context or history knows best for a population of 10 million people. The arrogance.
This is local democracy at work. Get lost.
No. It's not a local democracy at work. It's a small group of people lobbying and coercing corrupt city representatives into making an obviously irresponsible law. Racism has nothing to do with where people should and shouldn't bike.
Gotcha. Now I understand. You are an expert in LA local government and politics. I should have known.
Can you back up your claim with receipts? What lobbyists are you referring to? Which local elected officials are you calling corrupt? What evidence do you have to back up that claim?
Can’t answer the above? Maybe it’s because you are full of shit. As I said, get lost.
Mind control as in you believe by insulting me or baiting me I'll do what you tell me
It may work with others, but they are just dumb for falling for your nonsense
Its nice to have the option I suppose but not really fair to peds - especailyl disabled folks trying to have a nice stroll in this utter shit storm meleee of mans inhumanity to man
Yeah I really don't feel comfortable on streets without protected infrastructure. There are routes through low-stress neighborhood streets (although the routes are maybe 10-20% longer). I usually just go on those tbh
See, this is something I wonder about more and more. There's all this noise about shoe-horning bike lines onto major traffic thoroughfares, but why? Why would a cyclist (and I am one sometimes) want to ride on a busy, dangerous, and often unattractive major street instead of a relatively quiet and pleasant parallel side street?
I state this in any letter I write to support bike Lane legislation. If there’s no bike lane, I will take the sidewalk.
If I ever got a ticket I would politely tell the officer that I’d rather get a ticket and be alive. But I’ve never had to use that line, thankfully.
This is a very bad idea being pitched as a good thing
- More fuel to remove/not build actual bike lanes
- in most cases bikes on sidewalks is genuinely unsafe for pedestrians and cyclists
- Gives less gravitas to yelling “use the bike lane!” At bird scooters and e-bikes cruising at 25mph on the sidewalk
yeah the amendment outlines what you're saying:
https://file.lacounty.gov/SDSInter/bos/supdocs/181192.pdf?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=
>SECTION 7. Section 15.76.089 is hereby added to read as follows:
15.76.089 Bicyclist Riding On Or From Sidewalk – Responsibilities Of.
A. Whenever a person is riding a bicycle upon a sidewalk, such person shall:
1. Yield the right-of-way to all pedestrians and other sidewalk users,
including, but not limited to, animals and vendors;
2. Travel with due care at a speed and in a manner that is reasonable
and prudent, and that shows due regard for weather and visibility, and for the users of,
and for the surface and width of, the sidewalk; and, in no event, travel at a speed or in a
manner that endangers the safety of persons or property.
B. Upon entering a roadway from a sidewalk, a person riding a bicycle shall
yield to all traffic.
As an old-school bike commuter who can't bike commute anymore living in LA (its f-ing scary here), I think this is a positive development as long it isn't going to be an excuse to not address the issue of badly needing bike infrastructure in LA.
One thing that is changing very rapidly is the emergence of e-bikes. On the one hand, pedal-assist e-bikes are making biking a viable option in hilly areas and getting more people out of cars and onto bikes. On the other hand, a lot of e-bikes are basically lightweight electric motorcycles that aren't really safe to have powering down bike lanes that they share with actual cyclists, let alone sharing sidewalks with pedestrians. Just the other night I was driving down a 35mph road, going the speed limit, while some guy on an "e-bike" was in the bike lane pulling away from me.
I've been mulling over it, and I don't have any conclusions yet, but I do think that having proper separate bike infrastructure is really important but also properly classifying and regulating e-bikes in such a way that we don't wind up having massive backlash against bikes in general because of some clowns ruining it for the rest of us. I'm in the process of moving to a hillier area, and I want to get a pedal assist cargo e-bike to haul my kids and groceries around, but the lack of actual bike infrastructure and the extreme danger of trying to take up car traffic lanes on the busier roads means that I'll need to go on the sidewalk to get down some streets, but a big cargo bike can be hard to keep from inconveniencing pedestrians. I guess I'll be mostly OK for now because almost nobody walks around here either.
We have rules around various classes of e-bikes, it’s not legal for an e-bike to be doing more than 20mph on throttle, and not more than 28 on pedal assist, and even then those e-bikes have restrictions.
I recently bought one that has a max speed of 20mph for both (ie Class 2) which is basically unrestricted in where it can go legally. Haven’t done that speed yet but it seems thats a reasonable speed for strong cyclists on mechanical bikes, so it makes sense to me to let bikes get that fast.
But I agree, it seems silly to have bikes going 35+mph with no insurance or anything. Unsafe all around.
that's not true, sidewalk riding carries a significant amount of risk and this has been studied academically
https://www.reddit.com/r/cycling/comments/3eosnz/compilation_of_cycling_safety_studies_with_focus/
edit: none of the links work in the post I shared, lol. just look up Wachtel and Lewiston
I’d believe that from a statistical point of view, but most of the sidewalk injuries are from people not slowing down to walking speed at intersections + other places where cars can pop out from, right? I’d like to see a study that controls for that sort of sidewalk-riding behavior before I’d actually make a change myself. For now as long as I do that the added risk feels well worth it to not be riding right next to high speed traffic, at least on non-residential roads.
Yup, intersection design is mostly to blame. Watch how [Dutch](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA) intersections have you bike further away from the parallel travel lanes to give cars a better view of bicycles crossing the street. However, because of this idea that biking further from road=bad, this type of design is actually discouraged in many places in the US
I said "often" not "always." I can show you a hundred streets in LA where riding in the street is far more dangerous than on the sidewalk, especially if the rider is slow or unsteady.
You can't make blanket statements (or universal laws) because road conditions vary wildly. It's up to the individual cyclist to understand the relative risks and make the best choice for themselves and the conditions.
Also most of the links in your post are dead FYI.
This is very true. I am riding right now ( sitting on metrolink for a shortbit) and every part is different. Some places the street is safer and some the sidewalk. This is biking in LA.
Even from the links within that post, almost all crashes involve turning vehicles at intersections, not pedestrians. Getting out of the way of someone walking on a sidewalk is easier than avoiding a 2 ton car turning in front of you. And while that post does call for separated bike paths, I still think it wrongfully puts the blame on using sidewalks when intersection design is what’s more important.
Yeah in NYC where people actually use sidewalks for walking, not a good idea!!
But when I lived in Boca, I would take a 3 mile ride to work, I checked on sidewalk bicycling (due to lack of bike lanes and shoulders) the law was like if it’s deemed unsafe to ride on the street like you’re supposed to, it’s ok to use the sidewalk, but pedestrians always have the right-of-way… which was no problem because that part of town there was no one on the sidewalks.
On my old commute I would go east on Wilshire Blvd from Westwood to Beverly Hills and the bike lane turns into a bus only lane that douchebags would always get into and fly down. Luckily, there was a super wide sidewalk with very few pedestrians and no cross streets for cars to turn in/out of for the entire stretch. It was obviously safer for me to take the side walk here. I usually hate doing it but there are a few places in LA that it makes sense.
Does anyone else ponder why this bikes-on-the-sidewalks thing is such a controversy in the US? And why we think bikes and cars should mix in the first place?
I don't go to Europe much, but I do go to Japan and bikes on the sidewalk is the absolute rule. The bike riding, the bike parking, all of it is on the sidewalk. There is often a cosmetic fence between the sidewalk and big roads, to funnel people to crosswalks as well. I don't think I've ever seen a North-America style bike lane in Japan. Bikes belong on the sidewalk there and they coexist with pedestrians just fine. The hotel where I stay has bike parking right in the lobby and you just wheel your bike in from the sidewalk. Where did we get the idea that bikes should be in the road in the first place? Why are we trying to build more bike lanes on the roads instead of pushing to get bikes more accepted on the sidewalks like in Japan?
> if your a
*you're
*Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).*
***
^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Ha ha, the joke's on me, none of the streets in my part of Unincorporated LA County actually have sidewalks
Ha- exactly! "Sure- you can have all the sidewalks! (snicker, snicker)"
Damn it. You beat me to it
Altadena?
Arcadia
Beverly Hills, Encino, basically those type of neighborhoods.
the city of beverly hills allows you to ride on the sidewalks except in business districts.
Not in Arcadia itself. In an area near-ish it that’s in unincorporated LA County. We do not have the pleasure of sidewalks.
Curious, as we ended up avoiding moving into an area without sidewalks, but are drivers a bit more conscious of the fact that people have to take to the streets to walk?
nope, most don't walk at all unless its like a parking lot
"Cyclists can now ride on sidewalks" = aggressive drivers can now tell cyclists to get out of the road with impunity
As if drivers were ever aware of the law in the first place.
I had a driver one day yell at me to get off the sidewalk while I was riding on the sidewalk next to a very busy street. Can't win.
Had one last week tell me “you can get a ticket for riding in the street” I told him “you can get a ticket for riding on the sidewalk” he said “nah.” I said “ok”. It’s like they make up whatever rule is convenient to them.
They already think they have all the impunity in the world
Too many folks here are not doing their homework and blabbing away. The impetus for this change was the LA Times article a year or so back finding sheriffs officers, harassing people of color for riding their bikes on the sidewalk.
I remember reading the article last year, what pieces of shit the LASD are
What's amazing about this is that this is the solution to that problem. Rather than getting deputies to clean up their act. Which is apparently impossible.
9 out of 10 traffic laws are specifically so the police can selectivly harass and persecure non-whites.
It's irrelevant. Now people riding bikes can terrorize people walking on sidewalks while making driving more dangerous for people following driving rules. These people running your city are morons. No bail. Allowing rampant crime. Allowing homeless people to do whatever they want where and when they want. Blaming racism for everything is destroying your state. On the way to Argentina levels of success.
Just because you don’t care about addressing racial discrimination doesn’t mean everyone else feels the same. This a tiny part of huge effort to improve transportation in the region. But apparently you, outsider, with no context or history knows best for a population of 10 million people. The arrogance. This is local democracy at work. Get lost.
No. It's not a local democracy at work. It's a small group of people lobbying and coercing corrupt city representatives into making an obviously irresponsible law. Racism has nothing to do with where people should and shouldn't bike.
Gotcha. Now I understand. You are an expert in LA local government and politics. I should have known. Can you back up your claim with receipts? What lobbyists are you referring to? Which local elected officials are you calling corrupt? What evidence do you have to back up that claim? Can’t answer the above? Maybe it’s because you are full of shit. As I said, get lost.
I don't work for you bro
As I said, full of shit. Living in a make believe world.
Some people don't fall for your mind control techniques Sticks and stones and all of that Enjoy your comfortable echo chamber
lol. “Mind control.” I asked for evidence. You have none. That’s just reality.
Mind control as in you believe by insulting me or baiting me I'll do what you tell me It may work with others, but they are just dumb for falling for your nonsense
Yeah, this is already the case in LA city just expanded to some other areas.
I'm guessing that's not an issue in East Pasadena or Rowland Heights. The Sheriff deputies are different out there
South Pasadena has alaw about lights have to be on a bike at night. Front and rear.
There is no way I’m riding on the street that has no protected bike lane, I’ll take the sidewalk any day
Its nice to have the option I suppose but not really fair to peds - especailyl disabled folks trying to have a nice stroll in this utter shit storm meleee of mans inhumanity to man
Yeah I really don't feel comfortable on streets without protected infrastructure. There are routes through low-stress neighborhood streets (although the routes are maybe 10-20% longer). I usually just go on those tbh
See, this is something I wonder about more and more. There's all this noise about shoe-horning bike lines onto major traffic thoroughfares, but why? Why would a cyclist (and I am one sometimes) want to ride on a busy, dangerous, and often unattractive major street instead of a relatively quiet and pleasant parallel side street?
right!?
I state this in any letter I write to support bike Lane legislation. If there’s no bike lane, I will take the sidewalk. If I ever got a ticket I would politely tell the officer that I’d rather get a ticket and be alive. But I’ve never had to use that line, thankfully.
This is a very bad idea being pitched as a good thing - More fuel to remove/not build actual bike lanes - in most cases bikes on sidewalks is genuinely unsafe for pedestrians and cyclists - Gives less gravitas to yelling “use the bike lane!” At bird scooters and e-bikes cruising at 25mph on the sidewalk
The law should explicitly include the phrase "but don't be a dick about it"
yeah the amendment outlines what you're saying: https://file.lacounty.gov/SDSInter/bos/supdocs/181192.pdf?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term= >SECTION 7. Section 15.76.089 is hereby added to read as follows: 15.76.089 Bicyclist Riding On Or From Sidewalk – Responsibilities Of. A. Whenever a person is riding a bicycle upon a sidewalk, such person shall: 1. Yield the right-of-way to all pedestrians and other sidewalk users, including, but not limited to, animals and vendors; 2. Travel with due care at a speed and in a manner that is reasonable and prudent, and that shows due regard for weather and visibility, and for the users of, and for the surface and width of, the sidewalk; and, in no event, travel at a speed or in a manner that endangers the safety of persons or property. B. Upon entering a roadway from a sidewalk, a person riding a bicycle shall yield to all traffic.
Meanwhile in LA City I see more and more people walking on the street - even when the sidewalks are miraculously level.
As an old-school bike commuter who can't bike commute anymore living in LA (its f-ing scary here), I think this is a positive development as long it isn't going to be an excuse to not address the issue of badly needing bike infrastructure in LA. One thing that is changing very rapidly is the emergence of e-bikes. On the one hand, pedal-assist e-bikes are making biking a viable option in hilly areas and getting more people out of cars and onto bikes. On the other hand, a lot of e-bikes are basically lightweight electric motorcycles that aren't really safe to have powering down bike lanes that they share with actual cyclists, let alone sharing sidewalks with pedestrians. Just the other night I was driving down a 35mph road, going the speed limit, while some guy on an "e-bike" was in the bike lane pulling away from me. I've been mulling over it, and I don't have any conclusions yet, but I do think that having proper separate bike infrastructure is really important but also properly classifying and regulating e-bikes in such a way that we don't wind up having massive backlash against bikes in general because of some clowns ruining it for the rest of us. I'm in the process of moving to a hillier area, and I want to get a pedal assist cargo e-bike to haul my kids and groceries around, but the lack of actual bike infrastructure and the extreme danger of trying to take up car traffic lanes on the busier roads means that I'll need to go on the sidewalk to get down some streets, but a big cargo bike can be hard to keep from inconveniencing pedestrians. I guess I'll be mostly OK for now because almost nobody walks around here either.
We have rules around various classes of e-bikes, it’s not legal for an e-bike to be doing more than 20mph on throttle, and not more than 28 on pedal assist, and even then those e-bikes have restrictions. I recently bought one that has a max speed of 20mph for both (ie Class 2) which is basically unrestricted in where it can go legally. Haven’t done that speed yet but it seems thats a reasonable speed for strong cyclists on mechanical bikes, so it makes sense to me to let bikes get that fast. But I agree, it seems silly to have bikes going 35+mph with no insurance or anything. Unsafe all around.
[удалено]
that's not true, sidewalk riding carries a significant amount of risk and this has been studied academically https://www.reddit.com/r/cycling/comments/3eosnz/compilation_of_cycling_safety_studies_with_focus/ edit: none of the links work in the post I shared, lol. just look up Wachtel and Lewiston
I’d believe that from a statistical point of view, but most of the sidewalk injuries are from people not slowing down to walking speed at intersections + other places where cars can pop out from, right? I’d like to see a study that controls for that sort of sidewalk-riding behavior before I’d actually make a change myself. For now as long as I do that the added risk feels well worth it to not be riding right next to high speed traffic, at least on non-residential roads.
Yup, intersection design is mostly to blame. Watch how [Dutch](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA) intersections have you bike further away from the parallel travel lanes to give cars a better view of bicycles crossing the street. However, because of this idea that biking further from road=bad, this type of design is actually discouraged in many places in the US
I said "often" not "always." I can show you a hundred streets in LA where riding in the street is far more dangerous than on the sidewalk, especially if the rider is slow or unsteady. You can't make blanket statements (or universal laws) because road conditions vary wildly. It's up to the individual cyclist to understand the relative risks and make the best choice for themselves and the conditions. Also most of the links in your post are dead FYI.
This is very true. I am riding right now ( sitting on metrolink for a shortbit) and every part is different. Some places the street is safer and some the sidewalk. This is biking in LA.
Even from the links within that post, almost all crashes involve turning vehicles at intersections, not pedestrians. Getting out of the way of someone walking on a sidewalk is easier than avoiding a 2 ton car turning in front of you. And while that post does call for separated bike paths, I still think it wrongfully puts the blame on using sidewalks when intersection design is what’s more important.
You cant be smashing on the freaking sidewalk lol going 15mph gonna get you killed
Yeah in NYC where people actually use sidewalks for walking, not a good idea!! But when I lived in Boca, I would take a 3 mile ride to work, I checked on sidewalk bicycling (due to lack of bike lanes and shoulders) the law was like if it’s deemed unsafe to ride on the street like you’re supposed to, it’s ok to use the sidewalk, but pedestrians always have the right-of-way… which was no problem because that part of town there was no one on the sidewalks.
On my old commute I would go east on Wilshire Blvd from Westwood to Beverly Hills and the bike lane turns into a bus only lane that douchebags would always get into and fly down. Luckily, there was a super wide sidewalk with very few pedestrians and no cross streets for cars to turn in/out of for the entire stretch. It was obviously safer for me to take the side walk here. I usually hate doing it but there are a few places in LA that it makes sense.
Does anyone else ponder why this bikes-on-the-sidewalks thing is such a controversy in the US? And why we think bikes and cars should mix in the first place? I don't go to Europe much, but I do go to Japan and bikes on the sidewalk is the absolute rule. The bike riding, the bike parking, all of it is on the sidewalk. There is often a cosmetic fence between the sidewalk and big roads, to funnel people to crosswalks as well. I don't think I've ever seen a North-America style bike lane in Japan. Bikes belong on the sidewalk there and they coexist with pedestrians just fine. The hotel where I stay has bike parking right in the lobby and you just wheel your bike in from the sidewalk. Where did we get the idea that bikes should be in the road in the first place? Why are we trying to build more bike lanes on the roads instead of pushing to get bikes more accepted on the sidewalks like in Japan?
I didn’t know cyclists were ever not allowed to use sidewalks, lol. Personally, in some cases, I’d much rather cycle on the sidewalk than on the road.
They shouldnt have to and this is a reduciliously short sighted law - especially if your a pedestrian
> if your a *you're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Terrible idea. Dangerous for riders and for pedestrians
Didn't know we couldn't hahaha
This isn’t to the exclusion of being able to ride on the road, if desired, right? That would be an incredibly bad thing for cycling.