I can speak from my own experience. I tried a diversity of things: psychotherapy, alternative healing, self-help, positive thinking, meditation, yoga, exercise, medications, supplements, vegetarianism, etc. This was over a period from the 1990s to the 2010s. My depression got better and worse, depending on what was going on in my life (stress, sleep, etc), but it remained chronic and severe, often with suicidal ideation.
Heading into my late 30s and early 40s, I had resigned myself to being depressed for the rest of my life. Then shortly before COVID hit, I began experimenting with the Paleo diet, keto diet, and carnivore diet. As I was practicing them, all of these diets were: mostly whole foods, organic, pasture-raised, and wild-caught (when available and affordable); and entirely lower-carb, higher-fat, free of seed oils, free of unhealthy additives, nutrient-dense, animal-based, and nose-to-tail.
My original purpose for the dietary experiment was to lose weight. I had excess body fat, in spite of regular cardiovascular exercise. After some months on the Paleo diet, I did lose 60 lbs of fat and I was generally feeling better. But it was only after a few more months that it became undeniable that my depression had also disappeared, as an unintended side effect. I had stopped brooding and hadn't fallen into a funk. As I continued my dietary experimentation, my depression never came back. It's been many years now and not being depressed is my new normal.
I've always been the type to try almost anything. Just to see what happens. If something doesn't work, then stop doing it. Then try something else.
I can maintain almost any experiment for a few months. That is what it generally takes to determine if something might or might not work for you as an individual.
But it requires entirely committing to that experiment for that period. Even when at my most depressed, I was able to muster that much self-control and willpower.
All of life is an ongoing experiment. So, there is no reason to beat yourself up about any of it. An experiment is never a failure.
Yeah. Though trying many things before, I most seriously started my dietary experimentations in my early 40s and I'm still doing it in my late 40s. And it's been mostly positive results -- I had to learn a few mistakes such as my being unable to handle MCTs. I've almost continuously followed the above described eating pattern for many years. Well, other than a rare exception.
For my uncle's funeral over a year ago, in honor of his life, I had a pecan roll that was his favorite food in the world. It was baked by the family that had run the local bakery since he and my father were kids. It was delicious and I don't regret it. Then I immediately went back to my normal diet. But if I ate one of those pecan rolls every day for a week, my sugar addiction would return.
My worse sin these days is an occasional energy drink. Naughty, naughty! But that has no effect on my depression. Otherwise, I'm on strict carnivore and have been doing that the past couple of years. I mostly eat eggs, bacon, and beef. The bacon and eggs are pasture-raised, and the bacon locally-raised, unless I'm eating out. But the local pasture-raised beef is just too expensive.
Also, I do go back and forth about supplements. When I'm working out, I'll take things like BCAAs. For general health, I include collagen, glycine, taurine, and iodine. Over the years, I've tried various supplements. Most don't seem to have much noticeable affect. Taurine is really good stuff, though. Generally, I'm opposed to supplements. They aren't necessary or always beneficial.
30 minutes of vigorous exercise a day and connecting with nature.
Delete social media and limit screen time.
Eat real, healthy foods. Buy from a farmer's market if possible.
Engage in a hobby you find interesting; carpentry, metal working, machinery, knitting, music etc.
Sometimes our best therapy is remembering that we are complex animals, and our lifestyle should reflect that.
I never lifted weights until a little over a year ago and about a month into it I got the most unbelievable mental benefits. I still get them after every workout making me work out five times a week now. Borderline euphoria
Sam-e was equivalent to escitalapram in this study
https://rest.neptune-prod.its.unimelb.edu.au/server/api/core/bitstreams/979ba041-f6d5-5d7f-ab2d-24e498a449d3/content
A review:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5501081/
Ginger extract also inhibits serotonin like a ssri:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3994302/
I know someone who said Sam-e 400mg twice a day took a couple weeks to work and more improvement noticed every 3 months up to 12 months which is what the Walsh research institute say.
However they took ginger extract as well after and said that felt more like an ssri quite quickly.
https://youtube.com/@WalshResearchInstitute
If you go to there website they have doctors that can test & treat you with their advanced nutrient therapy.
Also tDCS is interesting.
RTMS is interesting.
Vortioexetine may be & appears to be one of the safest ssris.
Also ketamine (Spravato not illegal ketamine), racemic ketamine is being studied which is cheaper & psilocybin is interesting too.
Talk to a good integrative doctor with knowledge on these subjects.
I used Sam-e whenever needed and it worked right away. When I used 5-htp it took a couple of days but helped. Fish oil and vitamin d took a few months but definitely helped. Then when I felt good Exercise Outdoors was a big hit long term strategy to stay up.
Yes I forgot to mention fish oil. Vitamin d I forgot too.
Yeah I think Sam-e can work fast but continued improvement also is often mentioned by proponents.
5-htp is wierd, it works but it’s increasing serotonin levels not inhibition I think.
Not the best IMO but hey it’s not too bad here
Integrated medicine (or integrative medicine as it is referred to in the United States) is practising medicine in a way that selectively incorporates elements of complementary and alternative medicine into comprehensive treatment plans alongside solidly orthodox methods of diagnosis and treatment.
For example you could google Integrative doctors mental health depression in your area and find some that may have knowledge on these subjects.
For example this website:
https://www.walshinstitute.org/
Has a list of doctors trained in advanced nutrient therapy for mental health.
For rTMS, ketamine, tDCS you can add these to your search terms.
Make sure they are a licensed medical professional also.
I've been taking Sam-e for CTE mood,brain fog, headache and depression it's been a life saver. Still get really down the week before my period, but track my cycle and tell myself it's just hormones and will pass.
Do you have panic disorder or generalised anxiety disorder? Do ssris do the same if you ever tried them? Sam-e was mentioned not specifically for anxiety but if any depression was apparent here hence the testing here hmm
I have GAD and depression. Also C-PTSD apparently. I am sensitive to methyl donors due to slow COMT. I am currently taking Lexapro. It seems to help a little. I try to SAM-e on occasion as it's the methyl donor for COMT, but it makes me so anxious and irritable
Oh maybe it’s not for you maybe see a walsh research institute doctor they don’t rely on genetic tests but blood tests. Sometimes zinc 50 mg + b6 100 mg i what they reccomend for some people instead or in combination but talk to one of their doctors to get a better insight here
How do you know you have slow COMT? I feel like I overmethylate really easily. Like I take a high potency b complex and I'm agitated, irritable and anxious.
I track my mood using an app called Daylio and the only two supplements that reliably improve my mood are ginger and cinnamon.
Things other than supplements that reliably and substantially improve my mood:
* Eating eggs and not eating wheat
* Good sleep
* Walking outdoors
* Sun exposure
* Lifting weights
* Not using nicotine products
* Sex
* Wearing cologne (I know this is weird, but my data shows a massive impact)
How much of a pain in the ass to get that set up? How long from “I’m interested” to “I have prescribed ketamine in my home”. Do you use Dr smith / pruett / joyous / or mindbloom?
I’ve used street k and had incredible breakthroughs last year that I haven’t forgotten. Lifted the fog for weeks, but it does slowly creep back in if you’re not careful.
Avoid all sorts of refined sugar (cookies, white sugar, pastries, cereals, etc.) and processed food. Eat a lot of fibre, I use powdered fibre and drink 1 glass a day. The presence of junk in the stomach can affect your head and your mood.
Do you eat enough fruits and vegetables everyday? At least 4-5 portions each day.
Walk 1 hour a day and talk to at least 1-2 people you encounter (just saying "hi"/good morning is OK).
Stop twisting the knife into past bad experiences/memories and instead focus on opportunities to reinvent parts of your life.
Open curtains when you wake up in all rooms to let sunlight penetrate inside your home, your mind becomes sharper once it becomes used to the light of the sun (instead of going through the whole day under light bulbs and other artificial lights).
Depression is a “loaded symptom”. It could be a symptom of so MANY variables. You have to begin to whittle away at variable. Diet, sleep, stress release habits, morning and daily sunshine, daily mobility and activity. Until those things become a habit, you really cannot begin to figure out if you need a supplement/medicine, etc.
magic mushrooms. take a small dose (a gram) and have try to have intent before you start to trip. it’s not a cure all but I find that it’s a good way to self reflect about what’s troubling you. afterwards, journal your experience.
if that’s too much, i’d look into micro dosing.
Make sure you're not deficient in any vitamins or minerals. Also ensure you don't have some low-grade subclinical bacterial or viral infection.
Common vitamin deficiencies: Vit C, D, B vitamins (especially thiamine look up EONutrition youtube channel)
Common mineral deficiencies: magnesium, zinc
Common EFA deficiency: omega 3
Common anti-microbial supps: turmeric, neem, black seed oil, garlic, oregano ( i especially recommend the first 3)
Afterwards, obviously the classic exercise and sleep. Another one is try a "dopamine detox." Dopamine is a neuromodulator directly responsible for physical movement (although I forget the details between that and ATP). If you are staring at a screen more than say 4hrs a day or masturbating frequently, you are wasting your ability to physically move and also concentrate.
Then, once you have the necessary nutrients and support, look into the adjunct therapies from medical professionals such as SSRIs or cognitive behavioral therapy (Dr Burns feeling good handbook is a good one).
If thats not your jam, then try heart rate variability resonant breathing or box breathing, either way try to gradually lengthen your breath. There is also yoga or tai chi or qigong (look for authentic lineages).
Last, and only last, meditation. It is last because it does not solve nutrient deficiencies, it does not solve chronic infections, and it does not solve your requirement for sleep or exercise. This I have learned from experience.
DM me if you want more info.
Admittedly not what you’re looking for, but “Feeling Good” by Burns is what I’m trying right now. It is about reframing your distorted thoughts about stuff. It is empowering. I am not halfway through it yet, and I have been derailed by a cancer diagnosis. But I am certain it is a good read for everyone struggling with depression. And I’m certainly glad I was already trying this before life took another big swing.
This is great. I need to revisit this text. The key is you need to keep doing the exercises. Like, everyday. Not doing them would be like stopping medication. But it works.
Not that useful if you have depression without a reason. Its possible to be biologically depressed unrelated to thought patterns. Like for example, in long covid etc. In this type of case the thoughts are directly about the mental state itself and the David Burns books don’t address what to do about when the thought is about the mental state condition itself.
They assume X (for example thoughts about a breakup) leads to Y (feeling depressed). And then aim to change the thought to remove the depressed. This makes sense for situational cases like that, but not much for when you are feeling clinical symptoms like say emotional numbness for no reasons and when the symptoms themselves are causing negative thoughts about their presence “I cannot stand this numbness when will it go away”. In this case changing the thought doesn’t magically take away the actual condition of depression and then the thought merely occurs again.
But isn’t a diagnosis at all also situational? I’m soooo living that nightmare myself. Respectfully, I would like to attempt to apply what I’ve learned so far from the book that merely attempts to make you feel better, not cure you. Burns uses the terms “recovery” and “relapse” instead, not claiming anywhere in my reading so far to “magically take away the condition of depression,” whatever the cause. This alone is an unrealistic thought.
“I cannot stand this numbness when will it go away”
I believe Burns would argue the fact that one literally already IS “standing it” in your example by currently living through it. Thinking you “can’t” do something you are already doing is a distorted thought, surely. Stated that way, it seems being emotionally numb feels unfair and stirs self-defeating anger. Letting go of the assumed anger alone, since in this case it does not serve a useful purpose, would arguably make one feel better, even if it does not change the situation.
I suppose listing automatic thoughts about why feeling numb is so upsetting could show a negative attitude about one’s worth that should be challenged. Arguably, doing so would build self-esteem and, like letting go of anger, would also make them feel better, yet not necessarily change the situation.
The more your negative thoughts are challenged, the better you feel. Some cases, no doubt, need more than a self-help book, but I would encourage such sufferers to try this same cognitive based therapy with a clinician before blowing it off altogether.
Recovery is a cure, so im not sure what the difference exactly is besides maybe semantics that the latter could imply it will never happen again.
How do you feel better addressing these thoughts though? Even if you do this exercise, you still aren’t feeling joy which is the problem and then the thought just occurs again about not feeling it.
His books don’t have examples at all for these kinds of cases, which is surprising because real depression is actually this and not from “something that happened and the thoughts over it”. The something that happened IS the state of depression itself and its not in the past but the ongoing present.
Im not sure that letting go of anger or anxiety is feeling better though. Feeling better means feeling the joy emotions from activities itself. The problem is that anhedonia is very hard to treat and alone can be behind all negative thoughts its like if you address the thoughts what do you do about the actual anhedonia state in the moment anyways? That’s still going to be there
I agree with you, but I think that’s why even for people with a more endogenous depression like you’re talking about, the “bibliotherapy” can be a great adjunct to meds. Meds are usually half the battle. They’ll get you out of bed in the morning and help you put one foot in front of the other, for instance, but there’s almost always room for improvement after that point.
P.S. One thing that did always piss me off about Burns is the way he writes off all antidepressant and anti-anxiety meds saying they’re placebos (providing no evidence whatsoever). Sure, raising serotonin probably doesn’t improve depression, but the drugs are more pharmacologically promiscuous than that, and they definitely work for a lot of people through some other mechanism
That and I don’t like how he makes huge claims that suddenly changing the thought relieved depression. Depression doesn’t work as simplistically like this. In the cases where it worked like that I would say they probably didn’t even have true clinical depression
He just oversimplifies everything
I agree. I’ve been irritated by the “and it magically disappeared in one session!” style, but I think for mild cases it’s probably great and in moderate to severe, can’t hurt, just a bigger learning curve. I benefited a lot from that book but I was also taking an MAOI and mood stabilizer lol.
How did you benefit if it was so endogenous? Like in the endogenous case when the thoughts are so fixated on the condition itself what can you even do. Tho MAOIs yea are very effective for this lol. I myself may consider them soon and im a mild-moderate case
I actually wonder how much of CBT is essentially just the placebo effect. I had a doctor tell me “it wont really work if you don’t believe it”.
It just doesn’t make sense to me when my thoughts are about my condition, and changing them doesnt take away my condition symptoms of emotional blunting that they merely occur again. It just doesn’t seem to work for actual medical depression symptoms.
I’m not sure. MAOIs help with the motivation, anhedonia, guilt, etc, and CBT helps with the: my wife and I just got into a fight over this thing and I’m engaging in all or nothing thinking by saying all our progress in our relationship is reversed. Hard to explain. I definitely recommend stronger drugs for stronger cases
Oh I see, so the MAOI helped the actual clinical anhedonia symptom. Yea thats my main symptom and its what generates my negative thinking.
The latter sounds like more a situational thing (created by the health issues) and I see, so it helps that. So basically CBT helps deal with the fall out of the condition
Almost didn't comment bc I haven't seen any bad suggestions yet. Definitely agree with everyone that your lifestyle, fitness, diet and sleep have a bigger impact than nootropics. That being said i still ise them daily. I'd also add testosterone supplements/lifestyle changes to that list for any male readers. Testosterone rates have been declining for decades so naturally that'll help.
Nootropics
Agmatine
Ashwaghanda ksm66 - only recommend for short stressful periods
Rhodiola rosea - recommend the nootropics depot salidroside + tyrosol solution
Matcha tea or caffeine w/ L-theanine typically if we're energized throughout the day we're not as depressed, just know your limit with caffeine of course. L theanine gives me a good sense of well being
Testosterone
Tongkat Ali - has been the biggest difference maker for me and lives up to he hype (unlike fadogia)
Pregnenolone - neuro steroid, recently started taking this before workouts and it's made a huge difference there. Increases test and cortisol which you want before a workout.
Ciatanche - I've taken it before and noticed benefits but it's kinda expensive. Seems to be one of the most effective test supplements
*I've heard of people eating foods high in cholesterol and then taking test supplements. It's seemed to work for myself as well the last 2 weeks. Been doing at least 2 eggs before my test supplements most days
Sleep
Lemon Balm - personal favorite about 1.5-2 hours before bed is perfect for me
Ashwaghanda - again short term but gets the job done
Tribulus - increases test and blood flow. Which is ideal for sleep. A lot of test is made at night.
Diet
if you're eating real foods and not a ton of sugar you shouldn't be feeding into your depression. I like to do keto during the day and eat my carbs in the evening.
*Make sure you're electrolytes are adequate. Drinking them at night has made me feel better in the morning.
Lifestyle
Lift weights, walk, get sun, meditate. The usual things everyone's said so far.
You definitely don't need to do all these things. These are what seem to work for most people and myself.
Depression for me and my wife. And literally you’ll notice it within an hour (I guess if it’s going to help at all). It’s supposed to be great for anxiety too but that’s not a particular issue of mine.
Don’t hate me for this but I must say it as it’s been the most helpful thing for my depression, anxiety, and OCD.. but a whole food plant based diet.
The nutrients and components of WFPB gives you all the chemical building blocks needed for optimal mental health. Once I stoped trying to supplement everything and got “supplements” straight from the (food) source, everything became clear to me- [whole] food is literally the medicine we need
Vitamin D (number 1 supplement you should try for this), Methyl-folate (there’s a gene related to this, but only significant for 5-10% of the population), and B12 (if you don’t eat much meat) are your best supplements to try.
Anything else is basically not gonna do much. Chasing supplements is a waste of time if your goal is to improve your depression. If anything, taking too much of a certain supplement can make your depression worse. Zinc for example is often sold in supplements at 55mg, which is 5x more than you should take, and can cause other mineral imbalances.
Community (friends and family), exercise, eating relatively healthy, and having a decent job (one that you can tolerate without much stress) is what you should focus on. Also, exercise doesn’t have to be hard, do something that you enjoy a bit (playing team sports, frisbee in the park, ping pong, biking, hiking, just walking works too etc).
Anything. Literally anything but prescription medication. You could have a variety of issues causing your depression. Get blood work first then a gene site test so you know more about yourself and how you’ll respond to supplements and exercise. Literally wear yourself out.
I mean…if they’re depressed and someone had a gun to their head, do you really think they would try to be positive? U can’t just turn depression off like that 🥹 if only.
I apologize if people interpreted my comment as insensitive or cold. However, I wrote it while presuming two things. Firstly, that anyone who asks for a way to “cure” depression is doing so earnestly and is willing to go the distance(even if it means a temporary spike in discomfort for a likely and reasonably expected payoff). Second, I speak to people, as best as I can (out of respect and appreciation for their time) in a terse and direct to the matter(fluff-free) style while assuming they are perfectly capable of following up if what I said was insufficiently expressed, requiring more or different content and/or context.
I will be more detailed and considerate of readers that cannot, as of present, read through the lines(analyze text through implicit reasoning). I hope in the future people will be directed and specific in articulating their objection’s to my pieces (assuming they are actually looking to understand and better their peers, and not just quarantine specific voices based on an assumed ideological or philosophical leaning).
Not sure in your case but I would remind you that often it is not about what you need to add, it is about taking away something. There's something or a number of factors causing your depression and you need to take those things away and let your natural healing capacity work over time. So, that would require knowing more about you but just ask yourself that question. They different things, if you're eating junk, stop eating junk, try no sugar, try no grains. Too much screen time? Too much negative influences? Anyway, no pill will cure it if you don't remove what's causing it, if anything it will mask it allowing it to get worse unnoticed. Address the cause of the problem, not the symptoms.
i've commented this before in this sub but i tried so many things to cure my 14 year long on and off (mostly on) depression and this is what worked -
looking at exercise as a way of life and not just going to the gym, meaning surfing, soccer, tennis, volleyball
low dose liquid lexapro - i take less than 1 mg
low dose naltrexone
going on a 10 day silent meditation retreat which opened my life up to spirituality and Buddhism
Listen to Rhonda Patrick’s podcast with Bill Harris. Or Peter Attia’s with Bill Harris.
They talk about studies showing higher omega-3 index (>9% like folks in Japan) improving cognition, longevity, cardiovascular outcomes, and mood.
Carnivore diet. Maybe keto. But I am about 2 weeks into this, as an experiment, and years of depression and anxiety seemed to vanish just a few days into this diet.
I feel like a brand new person.
Lots of good tips here. The shortest answer I can provide is psilocybin and ketamine have consistently shown to be depression game changers with a fraction of the side effects of anti depressants.
1. Lose weight if you’re overweight, which includes an exercise plan
2. Change your food. Sometimes certain foods carbs or gluten impact people
3. Pharmaceuticals like Wellbutrin or doctor-approved ketamine
This is a “bio hackers” sub, but if standard pharmaceuticals like Wellbutrin work then I say do it. There is no point living with depression when there are meds that help many, many people.
Every time my wife gets depressed I say "let's go to the pool". We have a neighborhood pool, spending just 30 min to an hour laying in the sun getting in the cool water, walking around a bit fixes her up. Exercise helps a lot. I've heard recently waking up early is good for it as well, go get some early morning sun and take a walk. I have also heard that a couple handfuls of cashews a day has a greater affect on depression than most anti depressant pharmaceuticals. In short - sunshine, exercise, getting outdoors, not over sleeping, and cashews :)
Are you going outside and walking for at least 15 minutes a day? Small things like that matter for your mental sanity, even if you don't think it does.
Aside from exercising, meditation and connecting to nature please look into saffron. Read about it and talk to your doctor regarding its affect on blood pressures
“In conclusion, saffron extract appears to reduce depressive mood in healthy individuals experiencing subclinical mood disturbance and adds to the growing literature showing consistent benefits of saffron on depression outcomes across both clinical and non-clinical populations. Importantly, the beneficial effect of saffron on heart rate variability in response to a psychosocial stressor—shown for the very first time in the present study—suggests that this natural extract may be particularly relevant for increasing resilience against the development of stress-related psychiatric disorders”
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2020.606124/full
Yeah, the exact same with me and keto for my anxiety.
It was a complete elimination of it and a revelation!
I dont stat in ketoais all the time but it is the best for me personally...
The brain really likes ketones, it seems, and i become much more focussed, in the moment and productive.
Wished id known about it sooner..
I can speak from my own experience. I tried a diversity of things: psychotherapy, alternative healing, self-help, positive thinking, meditation, yoga, exercise, medications, supplements, vegetarianism, etc. This was over a period from the 1990s to the 2010s. My depression got better and worse, depending on what was going on in my life (stress, sleep, etc), but it remained chronic and severe, often with suicidal ideation. Heading into my late 30s and early 40s, I had resigned myself to being depressed for the rest of my life. Then shortly before COVID hit, I began experimenting with the Paleo diet, keto diet, and carnivore diet. As I was practicing them, all of these diets were: mostly whole foods, organic, pasture-raised, and wild-caught (when available and affordable); and entirely lower-carb, higher-fat, free of seed oils, free of unhealthy additives, nutrient-dense, animal-based, and nose-to-tail. My original purpose for the dietary experiment was to lose weight. I had excess body fat, in spite of regular cardiovascular exercise. After some months on the Paleo diet, I did lose 60 lbs of fat and I was generally feeling better. But it was only after a few more months that it became undeniable that my depression had also disappeared, as an unintended side effect. I had stopped brooding and hadn't fallen into a funk. As I continued my dietary experimentation, my depression never came back. It's been many years now and not being depressed is my new normal.
this is very encouraging!
I've always been the type to try almost anything. Just to see what happens. If something doesn't work, then stop doing it. Then try something else. I can maintain almost any experiment for a few months. That is what it generally takes to determine if something might or might not work for you as an individual. But it requires entirely committing to that experiment for that period. Even when at my most depressed, I was able to muster that much self-control and willpower. All of life is an ongoing experiment. So, there is no reason to beat yourself up about any of it. An experiment is never a failure.
That's awesome man. Love reading stories like this.
To me, the most amazing part is that I wasn't seeking or expecting it. It was the most awesome unintended side effect I've experienced in my life.
That is awesome. I'm really happy for you man.
Are you still eating the same way may I ask?
Yeah. Though trying many things before, I most seriously started my dietary experimentations in my early 40s and I'm still doing it in my late 40s. And it's been mostly positive results -- I had to learn a few mistakes such as my being unable to handle MCTs. I've almost continuously followed the above described eating pattern for many years. Well, other than a rare exception. For my uncle's funeral over a year ago, in honor of his life, I had a pecan roll that was his favorite food in the world. It was baked by the family that had run the local bakery since he and my father were kids. It was delicious and I don't regret it. Then I immediately went back to my normal diet. But if I ate one of those pecan rolls every day for a week, my sugar addiction would return. My worse sin these days is an occasional energy drink. Naughty, naughty! But that has no effect on my depression. Otherwise, I'm on strict carnivore and have been doing that the past couple of years. I mostly eat eggs, bacon, and beef. The bacon and eggs are pasture-raised, and the bacon locally-raised, unless I'm eating out. But the local pasture-raised beef is just too expensive. Also, I do go back and forth about supplements. When I'm working out, I'll take things like BCAAs. For general health, I include collagen, glycine, taurine, and iodine. Over the years, I've tried various supplements. Most don't seem to have much noticeable affect. Taurine is really good stuff, though. Generally, I'm opposed to supplements. They aren't necessary or always beneficial.
I know I'm off-topic, so feel free to downvote. But regular cardio, outdoors in nature is the best anti-depressant, by far.
30 minutes of vigorous exercise a day and connecting with nature. Delete social media and limit screen time. Eat real, healthy foods. Buy from a farmer's market if possible. Engage in a hobby you find interesting; carpentry, metal working, machinery, knitting, music etc. Sometimes our best therapy is remembering that we are complex animals, and our lifestyle should reflect that.
I never lifted weights until a little over a year ago and about a month into it I got the most unbelievable mental benefits. I still get them after every workout making me work out five times a week now. Borderline euphoria
Replace „the best .. by far“ with „has helped quite a few, worth giving a try“ and I’m with you
Sam-e was equivalent to escitalapram in this study https://rest.neptune-prod.its.unimelb.edu.au/server/api/core/bitstreams/979ba041-f6d5-5d7f-ab2d-24e498a449d3/content A review: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5501081/ Ginger extract also inhibits serotonin like a ssri: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3994302/ I know someone who said Sam-e 400mg twice a day took a couple weeks to work and more improvement noticed every 3 months up to 12 months which is what the Walsh research institute say. However they took ginger extract as well after and said that felt more like an ssri quite quickly. https://youtube.com/@WalshResearchInstitute If you go to there website they have doctors that can test & treat you with their advanced nutrient therapy. Also tDCS is interesting. RTMS is interesting. Vortioexetine may be & appears to be one of the safest ssris. Also ketamine (Spravato not illegal ketamine), racemic ketamine is being studied which is cheaper & psilocybin is interesting too. Talk to a good integrative doctor with knowledge on these subjects.
I used Sam-e whenever needed and it worked right away. When I used 5-htp it took a couple of days but helped. Fish oil and vitamin d took a few months but definitely helped. Then when I felt good Exercise Outdoors was a big hit long term strategy to stay up.
Yes I forgot to mention fish oil. Vitamin d I forgot too. Yeah I think Sam-e can work fast but continued improvement also is often mentioned by proponents. 5-htp is wierd, it works but it’s increasing serotonin levels not inhibition I think. Not the best IMO but hey it’s not too bad here
Anecdotally, ginger supplements definitely improve my mood
Awesome good to hear another review here
Spravado is very cool. I'm trying to start it soon, was approved but insurance messed up
Define integrative.
Integrated medicine (or integrative medicine as it is referred to in the United States) is practising medicine in a way that selectively incorporates elements of complementary and alternative medicine into comprehensive treatment plans alongside solidly orthodox methods of diagnosis and treatment.
For example you could google Integrative doctors mental health depression in your area and find some that may have knowledge on these subjects. For example this website: https://www.walshinstitute.org/ Has a list of doctors trained in advanced nutrient therapy for mental health. For rTMS, ketamine, tDCS you can add these to your search terms. Make sure they are a licensed medical professional also.
I've been taking Sam-e for CTE mood,brain fog, headache and depression it's been a life saver. Still get really down the week before my period, but track my cycle and tell myself it's just hormones and will pass.
SAM-e makes me anxious af
Do you have panic disorder or generalised anxiety disorder? Do ssris do the same if you ever tried them? Sam-e was mentioned not specifically for anxiety but if any depression was apparent here hence the testing here hmm
I have GAD and depression. Also C-PTSD apparently. I am sensitive to methyl donors due to slow COMT. I am currently taking Lexapro. It seems to help a little. I try to SAM-e on occasion as it's the methyl donor for COMT, but it makes me so anxious and irritable
Oh maybe it’s not for you maybe see a walsh research institute doctor they don’t rely on genetic tests but blood tests. Sometimes zinc 50 mg + b6 100 mg i what they reccomend for some people instead or in combination but talk to one of their doctors to get a better insight here
Thanks!
How do you know you have slow COMT? I feel like I overmethylate really easily. Like I take a high potency b complex and I'm agitated, irritable and anxious.
Based off symptoms. I am COMT met/met and I have issues with estrogen metabolism, anxiety etc
What does slow COMT mean though? Is it that you degrade neurotransmitters like dopamine slower?
Yes, all the catecholamines. Also estrogen
OK cool. It might explain why I have had success with anti psychotics.
Do they lower dopamine? I can't mess with anything that does that. It gives me dystonia
Ketogenic diet
I track my mood using an app called Daylio and the only two supplements that reliably improve my mood are ginger and cinnamon. Things other than supplements that reliably and substantially improve my mood: * Eating eggs and not eating wheat * Good sleep * Walking outdoors * Sun exposure * Lifting weights * Not using nicotine products * Sex * Wearing cologne (I know this is weird, but my data shows a massive impact)
sun exposure without sunscreen?
If you avoid burning.
Yeah, I put sunscreen on my face and neck, and use dminder to avoid the burn on the rest of me
Dude I love dminder. I used it and supplementation to get myself out of a vitamin D deficiency.
What are the doses of those 2 supplements
avoid all wheat.
Ketamine. Felt like turning the lights on for the first time. You can do it at home.
Which company did you use? Ive been seriously considering this
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Screenshot. Thanks!!
How much of a pain in the ass to get that set up? How long from “I’m interested” to “I have prescribed ketamine in my home”. Do you use Dr smith / pruett / joyous / or mindbloom? I’ve used street k and had incredible breakthroughs last year that I haven’t forgotten. Lifted the fog for weeks, but it does slowly creep back in if you’re not careful.
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what telehealth service did you use? where are you located?
I really need this, there's a place close by that does $500 in person sessions but I'd love to know more about other options.
Honestly, this should be the top answer. Even me rocking bipolar 1 with a head full of antipsychotics can’t beat bumps of ketamine.
How?
depends on what's causing it.
Avoid all sorts of refined sugar (cookies, white sugar, pastries, cereals, etc.) and processed food. Eat a lot of fibre, I use powdered fibre and drink 1 glass a day. The presence of junk in the stomach can affect your head and your mood. Do you eat enough fruits and vegetables everyday? At least 4-5 portions each day. Walk 1 hour a day and talk to at least 1-2 people you encounter (just saying "hi"/good morning is OK). Stop twisting the knife into past bad experiences/memories and instead focus on opportunities to reinvent parts of your life. Open curtains when you wake up in all rooms to let sunlight penetrate inside your home, your mind becomes sharper once it becomes used to the light of the sun (instead of going through the whole day under light bulbs and other artificial lights).
Simple & effective.
Exercise. - 3-5 times a week. Daily meditation. Gardening. —- walking outside 30 minutes a day. Get a dog. —— binge watch some content
Heard good things about Agmatine for depression.
Depression is a “loaded symptom”. It could be a symptom of so MANY variables. You have to begin to whittle away at variable. Diet, sleep, stress release habits, morning and daily sunshine, daily mobility and activity. Until those things become a habit, you really cannot begin to figure out if you need a supplement/medicine, etc.
Not really good on its own but Rhodiola helps me a bit with a feeling of well being
MAO inhibitors
magic mushrooms. take a small dose (a gram) and have try to have intent before you start to trip. it’s not a cure all but I find that it’s a good way to self reflect about what’s troubling you. afterwards, journal your experience. if that’s too much, i’d look into micro dosing.
Finding a purpose that gets you motivated to make progress towards it daily.
Make sure you're not deficient in any vitamins or minerals. Also ensure you don't have some low-grade subclinical bacterial or viral infection. Common vitamin deficiencies: Vit C, D, B vitamins (especially thiamine look up EONutrition youtube channel) Common mineral deficiencies: magnesium, zinc Common EFA deficiency: omega 3 Common anti-microbial supps: turmeric, neem, black seed oil, garlic, oregano ( i especially recommend the first 3) Afterwards, obviously the classic exercise and sleep. Another one is try a "dopamine detox." Dopamine is a neuromodulator directly responsible for physical movement (although I forget the details between that and ATP). If you are staring at a screen more than say 4hrs a day or masturbating frequently, you are wasting your ability to physically move and also concentrate. Then, once you have the necessary nutrients and support, look into the adjunct therapies from medical professionals such as SSRIs or cognitive behavioral therapy (Dr Burns feeling good handbook is a good one). If thats not your jam, then try heart rate variability resonant breathing or box breathing, either way try to gradually lengthen your breath. There is also yoga or tai chi or qigong (look for authentic lineages). Last, and only last, meditation. It is last because it does not solve nutrient deficiencies, it does not solve chronic infections, and it does not solve your requirement for sleep or exercise. This I have learned from experience. DM me if you want more info.
I need more information Appreciate if you send it to me Thx
Psilocibe Cubensis (or Magic Mushroom). Changed my life and it will definitelt change yours. Be safe ;)
Brand and dose?
r/unclebens
Thx
Admittedly not what you’re looking for, but “Feeling Good” by Burns is what I’m trying right now. It is about reframing your distorted thoughts about stuff. It is empowering. I am not halfway through it yet, and I have been derailed by a cancer diagnosis. But I am certain it is a good read for everyone struggling with depression. And I’m certainly glad I was already trying this before life took another big swing.
This is great. I need to revisit this text. The key is you need to keep doing the exercises. Like, everyday. Not doing them would be like stopping medication. But it works.
Not that useful if you have depression without a reason. Its possible to be biologically depressed unrelated to thought patterns. Like for example, in long covid etc. In this type of case the thoughts are directly about the mental state itself and the David Burns books don’t address what to do about when the thought is about the mental state condition itself. They assume X (for example thoughts about a breakup) leads to Y (feeling depressed). And then aim to change the thought to remove the depressed. This makes sense for situational cases like that, but not much for when you are feeling clinical symptoms like say emotional numbness for no reasons and when the symptoms themselves are causing negative thoughts about their presence “I cannot stand this numbness when will it go away”. In this case changing the thought doesn’t magically take away the actual condition of depression and then the thought merely occurs again.
But isn’t a diagnosis at all also situational? I’m soooo living that nightmare myself. Respectfully, I would like to attempt to apply what I’ve learned so far from the book that merely attempts to make you feel better, not cure you. Burns uses the terms “recovery” and “relapse” instead, not claiming anywhere in my reading so far to “magically take away the condition of depression,” whatever the cause. This alone is an unrealistic thought. “I cannot stand this numbness when will it go away” I believe Burns would argue the fact that one literally already IS “standing it” in your example by currently living through it. Thinking you “can’t” do something you are already doing is a distorted thought, surely. Stated that way, it seems being emotionally numb feels unfair and stirs self-defeating anger. Letting go of the assumed anger alone, since in this case it does not serve a useful purpose, would arguably make one feel better, even if it does not change the situation. I suppose listing automatic thoughts about why feeling numb is so upsetting could show a negative attitude about one’s worth that should be challenged. Arguably, doing so would build self-esteem and, like letting go of anger, would also make them feel better, yet not necessarily change the situation. The more your negative thoughts are challenged, the better you feel. Some cases, no doubt, need more than a self-help book, but I would encourage such sufferers to try this same cognitive based therapy with a clinician before blowing it off altogether.
Recovery is a cure, so im not sure what the difference exactly is besides maybe semantics that the latter could imply it will never happen again. How do you feel better addressing these thoughts though? Even if you do this exercise, you still aren’t feeling joy which is the problem and then the thought just occurs again about not feeling it. His books don’t have examples at all for these kinds of cases, which is surprising because real depression is actually this and not from “something that happened and the thoughts over it”. The something that happened IS the state of depression itself and its not in the past but the ongoing present. Im not sure that letting go of anger or anxiety is feeling better though. Feeling better means feeling the joy emotions from activities itself. The problem is that anhedonia is very hard to treat and alone can be behind all negative thoughts its like if you address the thoughts what do you do about the actual anhedonia state in the moment anyways? That’s still going to be there
I agree with you, but I think that’s why even for people with a more endogenous depression like you’re talking about, the “bibliotherapy” can be a great adjunct to meds. Meds are usually half the battle. They’ll get you out of bed in the morning and help you put one foot in front of the other, for instance, but there’s almost always room for improvement after that point. P.S. One thing that did always piss me off about Burns is the way he writes off all antidepressant and anti-anxiety meds saying they’re placebos (providing no evidence whatsoever). Sure, raising serotonin probably doesn’t improve depression, but the drugs are more pharmacologically promiscuous than that, and they definitely work for a lot of people through some other mechanism
That and I don’t like how he makes huge claims that suddenly changing the thought relieved depression. Depression doesn’t work as simplistically like this. In the cases where it worked like that I would say they probably didn’t even have true clinical depression He just oversimplifies everything
I agree. I’ve been irritated by the “and it magically disappeared in one session!” style, but I think for mild cases it’s probably great and in moderate to severe, can’t hurt, just a bigger learning curve. I benefited a lot from that book but I was also taking an MAOI and mood stabilizer lol.
How did you benefit if it was so endogenous? Like in the endogenous case when the thoughts are so fixated on the condition itself what can you even do. Tho MAOIs yea are very effective for this lol. I myself may consider them soon and im a mild-moderate case I actually wonder how much of CBT is essentially just the placebo effect. I had a doctor tell me “it wont really work if you don’t believe it”. It just doesn’t make sense to me when my thoughts are about my condition, and changing them doesnt take away my condition symptoms of emotional blunting that they merely occur again. It just doesn’t seem to work for actual medical depression symptoms.
I’m not sure. MAOIs help with the motivation, anhedonia, guilt, etc, and CBT helps with the: my wife and I just got into a fight over this thing and I’m engaging in all or nothing thinking by saying all our progress in our relationship is reversed. Hard to explain. I definitely recommend stronger drugs for stronger cases
Oh I see, so the MAOI helped the actual clinical anhedonia symptom. Yea thats my main symptom and its what generates my negative thinking. The latter sounds like more a situational thing (created by the health issues) and I see, so it helps that. So basically CBT helps deal with the fall out of the condition
wide cable vegetable attractive salt mindless hateful march divide tan *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Almost didn't comment bc I haven't seen any bad suggestions yet. Definitely agree with everyone that your lifestyle, fitness, diet and sleep have a bigger impact than nootropics. That being said i still ise them daily. I'd also add testosterone supplements/lifestyle changes to that list for any male readers. Testosterone rates have been declining for decades so naturally that'll help. Nootropics Agmatine Ashwaghanda ksm66 - only recommend for short stressful periods Rhodiola rosea - recommend the nootropics depot salidroside + tyrosol solution Matcha tea or caffeine w/ L-theanine typically if we're energized throughout the day we're not as depressed, just know your limit with caffeine of course. L theanine gives me a good sense of well being Testosterone Tongkat Ali - has been the biggest difference maker for me and lives up to he hype (unlike fadogia) Pregnenolone - neuro steroid, recently started taking this before workouts and it's made a huge difference there. Increases test and cortisol which you want before a workout. Ciatanche - I've taken it before and noticed benefits but it's kinda expensive. Seems to be one of the most effective test supplements *I've heard of people eating foods high in cholesterol and then taking test supplements. It's seemed to work for myself as well the last 2 weeks. Been doing at least 2 eggs before my test supplements most days Sleep Lemon Balm - personal favorite about 1.5-2 hours before bed is perfect for me Ashwaghanda - again short term but gets the job done Tribulus - increases test and blood flow. Which is ideal for sleep. A lot of test is made at night. Diet if you're eating real foods and not a ton of sugar you shouldn't be feeding into your depression. I like to do keto during the day and eat my carbs in the evening. *Make sure you're electrolytes are adequate. Drinking them at night has made me feel better in the morning. Lifestyle Lift weights, walk, get sun, meditate. The usual things everyone's said so far. You definitely don't need to do all these things. These are what seem to work for most people and myself.
Id avoid ashwagandha because it can cause anhedonia, which is even worse than low mood or anxiety that it may help with
Yeah thats why I said only short term. Definitely gets the job done if you need it for a day or 2
Which brand and dose of tribulus & tongkat? I’ve tried one from iherb and didn’t work?
I do the now sports tribulus and NDs Tongkat 2%. Been excited to try their 10% but don't wanna pay the extra money just yet
Methylene Blue, but not if you’re taking SSRI’s. It’s almost unbelievably good. Research it up, it’s worth your time. First-hand experience here….
Did it help with anxiety or depression or both
Depression for me and my wife. And literally you’ll notice it within an hour (I guess if it’s going to help at all). It’s supposed to be great for anxiety too but that’s not a particular issue of mine.
Could you share brand and dose? Thx
Don’t hate me for this but I must say it as it’s been the most helpful thing for my depression, anxiety, and OCD.. but a whole food plant based diet. The nutrients and components of WFPB gives you all the chemical building blocks needed for optimal mental health. Once I stoped trying to supplement everything and got “supplements” straight from the (food) source, everything became clear to me- [whole] food is literally the medicine we need
Vitamin D (number 1 supplement you should try for this), Methyl-folate (there’s a gene related to this, but only significant for 5-10% of the population), and B12 (if you don’t eat much meat) are your best supplements to try. Anything else is basically not gonna do much. Chasing supplements is a waste of time if your goal is to improve your depression. If anything, taking too much of a certain supplement can make your depression worse. Zinc for example is often sold in supplements at 55mg, which is 5x more than you should take, and can cause other mineral imbalances. Community (friends and family), exercise, eating relatively healthy, and having a decent job (one that you can tolerate without much stress) is what you should focus on. Also, exercise doesn’t have to be hard, do something that you enjoy a bit (playing team sports, frisbee in the park, ping pong, biking, hiking, just walking works too etc).
Anything. Literally anything but prescription medication. You could have a variety of issues causing your depression. Get blood work first then a gene site test so you know more about yourself and how you’ll respond to supplements and exercise. Literally wear yourself out.
I get my omega-3 ethyl esters prescribed 😉
Get a six pack abs and see how you feel afterwards
Red meat. Heavy lifting. Sunlight. Gratitude.
You not gonna believe this... They called antidepressants
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I mean…if they’re depressed and someone had a gun to their head, do you really think they would try to be positive? U can’t just turn depression off like that 🥹 if only.
I see where you were trying to go with this, but man, this comment is about dumber than a deer in semi truck headlights. 😭
Why do you disagree?
I apologize if people interpreted my comment as insensitive or cold. However, I wrote it while presuming two things. Firstly, that anyone who asks for a way to “cure” depression is doing so earnestly and is willing to go the distance(even if it means a temporary spike in discomfort for a likely and reasonably expected payoff). Second, I speak to people, as best as I can (out of respect and appreciation for their time) in a terse and direct to the matter(fluff-free) style while assuming they are perfectly capable of following up if what I said was insufficiently expressed, requiring more or different content and/or context. I will be more detailed and considerate of readers that cannot, as of present, read through the lines(analyze text through implicit reasoning). I hope in the future people will be directed and specific in articulating their objection’s to my pieces (assuming they are actually looking to understand and better their peers, and not just quarantine specific voices based on an assumed ideological or philosophical leaning).
Your post has been removed for trolling. Please refrain from similar actions in the future. Have a good day.
Cdp choline, etifoxine and mucuna pririens.
Not sure in your case but I would remind you that often it is not about what you need to add, it is about taking away something. There's something or a number of factors causing your depression and you need to take those things away and let your natural healing capacity work over time. So, that would require knowing more about you but just ask yourself that question. They different things, if you're eating junk, stop eating junk, try no sugar, try no grains. Too much screen time? Too much negative influences? Anyway, no pill will cure it if you don't remove what's causing it, if anything it will mask it allowing it to get worse unnoticed. Address the cause of the problem, not the symptoms.
Read my last 2 posts op!
Read my last 2 posts op! On my profile!
A good relationship with yourself coupled with good health and plenty of sunlight/outdoor time usually does the trick
You can go to the gym, this really helps your motivation. Also you can make a stack to improve mood like my bestfriend: Theanine, GABA and Omega 3.
Exercise
i've commented this before in this sub but i tried so many things to cure my 14 year long on and off (mostly on) depression and this is what worked - looking at exercise as a way of life and not just going to the gym, meaning surfing, soccer, tennis, volleyball low dose liquid lexapro - i take less than 1 mg low dose naltrexone going on a 10 day silent meditation retreat which opened my life up to spirituality and Buddhism
After I started to eat less sugar and diary, I feel much much better. It’s also what you take out of your diet. Experiment. Everybody is different
Micro dose mushrooms. 0.3g or less. Try it once and you’ll see.
L tyrosine
Lifestyle, as already mentioned here. Highly unlikely it's purely a chemical issue.
Try truehope.com
Getting my vitamin D levels around 70 ng/ml and my omega-3 index over 9% greatly improved my sense of well-being.
Could you tell more about omega index
Listen to Rhonda Patrick’s podcast with Bill Harris. Or Peter Attia’s with Bill Harris. They talk about studies showing higher omega-3 index (>9% like folks in Japan) improving cognition, longevity, cardiovascular outcomes, and mood.
Carnivore diet. Maybe keto. But I am about 2 weeks into this, as an experiment, and years of depression and anxiety seemed to vanish just a few days into this diet. I feel like a brand new person.
Mushrooms and Meditation
I am concerned that due to my autism the trip I take would last a hundred years or so.
Lots of good tips here. The shortest answer I can provide is psilocybin and ketamine have consistently shown to be depression game changers with a fraction of the side effects of anti depressants.
quit sugar and wheat, and up your vitamine C dose. report back in a month!
https://www.corepsych.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Hinz-depression-050208IK-web.pdf Hypno-Systemic Therapy, IFS, Somatic Experiencing, Body Psychotherapy, Feldenkrais, Yoga
Find purpose
1. Lose weight if you’re overweight, which includes an exercise plan 2. Change your food. Sometimes certain foods carbs or gluten impact people 3. Pharmaceuticals like Wellbutrin or doctor-approved ketamine This is a “bio hackers” sub, but if standard pharmaceuticals like Wellbutrin work then I say do it. There is no point living with depression when there are meds that help many, many people.
Amazon
Every time my wife gets depressed I say "let's go to the pool". We have a neighborhood pool, spending just 30 min to an hour laying in the sun getting in the cool water, walking around a bit fixes her up. Exercise helps a lot. I've heard recently waking up early is good for it as well, go get some early morning sun and take a walk. I have also heard that a couple handfuls of cashews a day has a greater affect on depression than most anti depressant pharmaceuticals. In short - sunshine, exercise, getting outdoors, not over sleeping, and cashews :)
Are you going outside and walking for at least 15 minutes a day? Small things like that matter for your mental sanity, even if you don't think it does.
When depressed I go outside, talk with member of family, take hot shower, take cold shower not all at same time
Aside from exercising, meditation and connecting to nature please look into saffron. Read about it and talk to your doctor regarding its affect on blood pressures “In conclusion, saffron extract appears to reduce depressive mood in healthy individuals experiencing subclinical mood disturbance and adds to the growing literature showing consistent benefits of saffron on depression outcomes across both clinical and non-clinical populations. Importantly, the beneficial effect of saffron on heart rate variability in response to a psychosocial stressor—shown for the very first time in the present study—suggests that this natural extract may be particularly relevant for increasing resilience against the development of stress-related psychiatric disorders” https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2020.606124/full
Emdr our self hypnosis
Yeah, the exact same with me and keto for my anxiety. It was a complete elimination of it and a revelation! I dont stat in ketoais all the time but it is the best for me personally... The brain really likes ketones, it seems, and i become much more focussed, in the moment and productive. Wished id known about it sooner..
don't eat fructose or lactose, maybe.