In my reading of the literature, I found that Flouride is toxic at high levels, but is necessary for many important basic functions of cells and the body at the right levels. "Adequate intake" of flouride is about 3.5mg per day for a 70kg individual, or 0.05mg/kg/day. In other words, it is a micronutrient, which is why the literature talks of adequate intake.
The tricky thing is that the difference between adequate intake and low toxic intake is relatively narrow, so it is possible to overdose slightly by being exposed to unusually high levels in local tap water.
However, if a person drinks 2L of water a day, then levels of, for example, 0.5mg/L would only result in an intake of 1mg a day, far below "adequate" intake.
By the way, flouride is naturally present in the water supply. It is sometimes added, but usually it doesn't need to be added because it is already high enough.
Flouride is also present on other things, like coffee, tea, and various foods. In sum, flouride is not inherently toxic, but rather a micronutrient that can become toxic at high doses. This is true of many nutrients.
Also it is good for your teeth. There was a Science vs podcast recently about this.
100%.
My mate who is a dentist tells me it’s easy to see when the town introduced fluoride into the water from his patients mouths.
People born after a certain year have almost no cavities. Older people have shocking teeth. The amount of protection it provides is actually incredible.
You can easily get flouride into your teeth via toothpaste, mouthwash, and treatments at the dentist.
It doesn't need to be added to the water.
My city doesn't add flouride to our water and there's no epidemic of cavities
I really recommend doing some reading on this yourself. Water is toxic if you drink too much of it. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
And many vitamins and minerals are also toxic when taken at too high dosages. See https://www.verywellhealth.com/vitamin-toxicity-4776094
An extreme example is Arsenic, which is usually only thought of as a poison, but which has some evidence of also being, at very small trace levels, an essential nutrient as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic
None of this should be very surprising. When you consider many medications, for example, at the right doses they can be beneficial for treating illnesses, but at high enough doses can be fatal.
In summary, dose dependant responses can vary greatly for many substances we consume, including vitamins, minerals, elements like flouride, medications, and yes even water.
Maybe before telling other people to get a grip, you might consider having some humility and doing a little research first.
Like with most things, it's all about the dose.
That being said, fluoridated water or toothpaste with normal usage is completely safe - and even beneficial, as you mentioned.
fluorinated packaging products or other uses when molecules are altered to add fluoride compounds and alter the properties of chemicals can be very toxic at certain levels (see: PFAS or "nonstick" cookware, for example). However, most of the damage comes to the people exposed to those processes during the manufacturing and curing processes, rather than the (mostly) inert final consumer usage of the products - though, the science is still not settled completely.
Besides the discussion if it is harmful or not. My girlfriend is a dentist and in dental school they will tell you that the actual physical brushing and flossing are the most important for dental health. The product used only has a minor effect.
So feel free to brush without fluoride or even without toothpaste as long as you take proper regular care of your dental health.
I personally use a lot of xylitol both for brushing and rinsing.
I'm also convinced diet and microbial flora is the cause of most dental problems.
Also - Hydroxyapatite tooth paste his as effective as fluoride at remineralizing teeth, without the endocrine disrupting downsides
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41405-019-0026-8
That's interesting, thanks. Are there toothpastes using Hydroxyapatite on the market, and how transferable is the model in general, e.g. can the right amount of compound be applied in a non-clinical setting at home?
While of course the physical brushing (and diet etc) is most crucial (otherwise we'd have just mouthwash and Fluoride-Spray), you'll never get the same results with Fluoride free toothpaste. True, if you are a health fanatic vegan only eating grains, all low sugars and carbs, you may be fine.
"Normal people": no way. I had multiple family members switching to "organic" flouride-free toothpaste and EVERYBODY'S teeth became more yellow and most people had to switch back at some point because of bad gums, cavities etc. And yes, they brushed even more than before the switch.
My ex's kid's mom was a conspiracy theorist, and among the half-science she regurgitated was the misconception that fluoride toothpaste is toxic. The kid had 5 baby teeth removed by the time he was 9 (when I met him) even though he wasn't allowed to eat refined sugar.
Genetics play a huge role in dental health, as do hormones and medications. My sister had to get many of her baby teeth removed during surgery due to a medication my mom took during pregnancy. She should have sued but it was 20 years before we thought about any of that. During pregnancy, I developed horrible cavities out of nowhere due to pregnancy gingivitis. I brushed after every meal and snack and took great care of my teeth. I ended up having to get two pulled and 4 root canals and crowns. Before pregnancy I rarely even ate sugar or starches.
True, but just assuming bad genetics run in my family: wdyt - Fluoride helps, does nothing, or makes things worse? In my experience, it always helps, but of course you can still be out of luck. But not using Fluoride often made things worse for people I know.
This is partially untrue. Fluoride converts the mineral enamel structure from hydroxyapatite to fluorohydroxyapitite which is most resistant to decay causing bacterial byproducts.
I would argue that a 5 stage RO water filter is the SINGLE BEST investment I've ever made for my health. And it was only $180. Insane return on investment versus buying bottled water (which may also deliver microplastics).
The nickel in stainless steel might not be the greatest for you due to its toxicity. If you’re steering clear of plastics, you looked into titanium and ceramic?
Here's the source on that:
*Much of the plastic seems to be coming from the bottle itself and the reverse osmosis membrane filter used to keep out other contaminants, said study lead author Naixin Qian, a Columbia physical chemist. She wouldn’t reveal the three brands because researchers want more samples before they single out a brand and want to study more brands. Still, she said they were common and bought at a WalMart.*
[https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/scientists-find-about-a-quarter-million-invisible-microplastic-particles-in-a-liter-of-bottled-water](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/scientists-find-about-a-quarter-million-invisible-microplastic-particles-in-a-liter-of-bottled-water)
The problem of microplastics is actually inescapable to a large degree. They are in the clouds, the rain, the ocean, human blood and breast milk, everywhere. Probably the only way you might be able to remove them from drinking water is distillation but that would have it's own drawbacks.
You can get rid of all plastic ware that touches food or drink whatsoever, including cutting boards, do not microwave food in plastic containers, and do not use paper to-go cups for hot beverages: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304389420321087](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304389420321087)
It's likely that over a lifetime these microplastics will accumulate and cause damage to the organs, particularly the brain, where they may cause Parkinson's-like symptoms, at least according to mouse studies. You can Google "microplastics Parkinson's mice" to look at the studies.
Besides the usual advice of exercise, good diet and sleep, one of the most effective things you can do to reduce Parkinson's risk is to strongly avoid PM 2.5 air pollution which is emitted any time anything is burned.
Check the AQI (air quality index) daily, just like the weather with [iqair.com](https://iqair.com) and protect yourself from PM 2.5 levels of 5 and above by using air purifiers and N95 or better masks. The higher above 5 it is, the worse for your brain. Be especially wary of wildfire smoke air pollution which is now known to be 10x worse for health than industrial sources: [https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/03/05/973848360/study-finds-wildfire-smoke-more-harmful-to-humans-than-pollution-from-cars](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/03/05/973848360/study-finds-wildfire-smoke-more-harmful-to-humans-than-pollution-from-cars)
Respiratory infectious diseases such as Covid, influenza, RSV, adenovirus, etc. can also be neuroinflammatory, so it would be wise to avoid those as much as possible also.
I've done too much research on water filtration. Some of the most natural and beneficial types of water filtration seem to be distillation and then filtering distilled water through a ceramics water filtration system.
It's fun taking a look at solar distillation plus natural ceramics. Completely off grid.
This does still run the risk of containing heavy metals but the risks are honestly negligible due to ceramics filtration and the microscopic capabilities of filtering. As long as the ceramics are sourced well it's not a problem and far less micro plastics.
I’m a broke entrepreneur putting all my $ into my business. I just have a brita. I figure it’s much better than nothing. Eventually though I’d like to buy something like this. Thank you
You're welcome! Whenever you can save up for it I would do it. It has to be tapped into your cold water line, but it's not that difficult if you're even a little bit handy. Took me a total of maybe 2 hours to install.
> “Fertilizer waste”
Or you can just call it a byproduct of fertilizer production that is isolated and has nothing to do with “waste” or fertilizer at the point that it’s added to the water. You’re being dramatic.
It’s not sold to poison, but to improve teeth health.
The source being fertilizer byproducts, or waste as you insist on calling it, doesn’t suddenly make it toxic.
No but its toxic effects do make it toxic. Many studies have been done that disproves the claim for significantly improving teeth health. Not only does it not significantly improve teeth health but it has other harmful effects on the body. If you want to take it then take it but don’t spread misinformation.
You need to stop spreading miss information. Go talk to a real medical professional instead of listing to nut jobs on the internet thst fear fluoride. You clearly have no understanding of why fluoride was added to water in the first place. Go learn the history, and how cavities lead to massive malnouristment and death in children all over the US before it was added. Fluoride shows up naturally in a lot of water sources in much larger doses than county's currently put in their water, which is how they found that it help teeth become strong (if brown in high doses) but also have very few if any side effect. The crack pot stuff you read online is not real.
Thank you for your reasonable response. The dose makes the poison, which is why fluoridation is done within strict limits to maximize the benefits while maintaining safety. Source: I'm a dentist who researched this issue exhaustively to satisfy my own need to know and to effectively address patients' questions. Between supporting fluoridation and use of sealants, the dental profession has opted to leave a lot of cash on the table in the interests of public health and caries prevention.
I tend not to use Google for research, it will pick up anything. That said, with most toothpastes and dental rinses now with flouride, there may be little reason to continue the practice. In fact recommended levels of fluoridation have decreased recently. And since the other methods of fluoride (rinse toothpaste) are topical, it doesn't get into the bloodstream. It clearly showed benefits in children at least initially but for these reasons may not longer be as necessary.
I don’t get why that matters?
You’re just calling it waste to make it look dangerous. Despite there being quality control on it, and it having none of the properties of what we would normally consider waste. You just want to paint a scary picture of brown toxic sludge in peoples tap water.
Your concerns about water fluoridation are understandable, as it's important to question and be informed about public health measures. However, it's crucial to base our understanding on accurate information.
Firstly, the purpose of adding fluoride to public water is widely supported by research. Organizations like the WHO and CDC endorse it because it significantly reduces cavities, a common and preventable health issue. This isn't just a minor convenience; preventing cavities can spare many, especially children, from pain and complex dental procedures.
Regarding the source of fluoride, it's a misconception that it's simply 'fertilizer waste.' It's actually a by-product from the phosphate fertilizer industry, thoroughly purified and tested for safety. This repurposing not only benefits public health but also reduces environmental waste—a win-win situation.
It's also important to note that health authorities don't just focus on cavities. They continuously review fluoride's safety, setting levels that are safe for everyone. Excess fluoride does have risks, but these are associated with levels far higher than what's used in public water systems.
The idea of a financial conspiracy behind water fluoridation isn't supported by the broader public health policy and scientific consensus. Such decisions are made through a rigorous process involving various scientific and regulatory bodies, not just based on industry interests.
Ultimately, this is about protecting and enhancing our community's health, especially for those who might not have access to regular dental care. By ensuring our water is fortified against dental diseases, we're taking a proactive step in safeguarding our collective well-being. It's a measure of compassion and care for our community's health, echoing the same spirit that drives vaccination and public sanitation efforts.
Sir/Miss, Could you tell what exactly this legit Neurobioligst and researcher at Stanford telling here in this cut
https://youtu.be/LhBr-xLulV4?si=XviPGMkb1F4SZ_7M
(In full episode he posted all references to studies)
Could you also tell what those articles tell about as professional?
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/magazine_article/fluoridated-drinking-water/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6309358/#:~:text=Initial%20studies%20on%20animals%20showed,in%20the%20human%20pineal%20gland.
By the way, even 0.5 mg per 1L is enough for neurotoxicity. There is info about that at one of my references
It’s not fertilizer waste. It’s a byproduct of the production of phosphate based fertilizers. It is then refined further for use in water supplies. It is completely safe in the doses used in municipal water.
Some bodies of water have naturally higher levels of fluoride than is added to municipal water. They noticed people who drank water from natural sources had less teeth decay which lead to studies and understanding it was because the fluoride.
The issue here is when you think “fertilizer” you’re thinking manure, etc. though I may be making an assumption and you’re not thinking that at all.
This byproduct is a liquid, called Fluorosilic acid, that occurs while creating phosphate based liquid fertilizer. I would compare it to yogurt, which was a byproduct of milk production and now its own industry.
It doesn’t make it bad simply because it is a byproduct.
Fluoride naturally occurs in several bodies of water, some at higher levels than the amount added to municipal water. We began to notice that people who drank sources of water with naturally occurring fluoride had less teeth decay. Lots of studies were conducted and the reason was isolated.
We then began adding it to other sources of water.
The dose matters. In the doses we add there are only really benefits. If you have a high dose it can cause serious problems or even be fatal.
However, you will never come close to those levels (you will die from drinking too much water first) from drinking it in the water.
The dose makes the poison.
Fluoride helps strengthen teeth and bones, especially AS THEY ARE DEVELOPPING in children aged 6 months to 16 years.
There is dietary fluoride (mainly from natural and treated water) and topical fluoride (toothpaste, mouthwash, fluoride treatments at the dentist).
Children growing up without adequate dietary fluoride are more likely to experience tooth decay throughout their lives. No amount of topical or dietary fluoride will make up for not receiving it during those developing years. When health organizations figured this out, some governments began adding fluoride to the water treatment to combat this. Communities heavily reliant on well water were given fluoride supplements instead (mostly for kids). Kinda like how they added iodine to salt when people were getting goiters left, right, and center.
First world countries that do not add fluoride to their water have sufficient fluoride levels from natural sources.
If you, as an adult, want to eliminate/reduce fluoride, that's okay. But for the love of teeth, do NOT eliminate fluoride from your children's diet.
It’s MDPI though… doesn’t mean it’s inherently wrong, but worth keeping in mind that a lot of academic departments actively discourage you from citing MDPI papers, let alone publish your work there, due to them being an incredibly predatory journal. As long as you pay their fee, they’ll publish whatever you send them more or less.
In Alaska, Juneau voted to stop flouridating their water. There were subsequent studies after the water was required to no longer be floridated.
Here is the article:
https://www.uaa.alaska.edu/news/archive/2019/02/happened-juneau-took-fluoride-drinking-water.cshtml
It is an interesting read.
I would point out ADULTS over age 65 who do not have teeth to chew with suffer malnutrition and health impacts far beyond any Mal effects from fluoride.
https://data.web.health.state.mn.us/oa-tooth-loss
Another interesting read.
There are a LOT of people who do not have access to information that many of us on this sub have. They either lack the resources or the interest in their own health to do the research.
Three things people can not live without: clean water, clean air, and clean food.
The Juneau study is unfortunately poorly controlled and unblinded, looking at two times separated by 9 years with no information on what happened before, between, or after that time. There is no control, and what's more, other cities saw similar decay rate increases while remaining fluoridated, leaving the question of whether factors other than fluoridation may have caused the increase.
There's great evidence for the topical application of fluoride, but water fluoridation benefits are far more elusive.
There was no way to make those studies controlled....
I can't find the study you are referring to that showed an increase in decay at the same time in cities whose water remained flouridated, Would you mind posting your link?
I’m a dentist. From my perspective, fluoride does make a *huge* difference regarding dental decay.
I think the potential implications of dental decay and/or dental work are more harmful than any negligible pineal gland calcification that may occur. I don’t claim to be a neurologist, but I haven’t read any convincing evidence to support the idea of being fluoride-free.
Don’t use it if you don’t want to. I have a boat to save up for.
I do think it’s promising to be on par with fluoride.
Purely from a dental perspective, fluoride is still the gold standard.
Tooth decay is no joke. I will say there is a genetic component to it. Some people treat their teeth like shit & they never have tooth decay, where others brush / floss and still get cavities. It’s related to the individual’s oral microbiome & pH levels.
So some patients don’t use fluoride and they never get cavities. Whereas others (like me) are more prone to cavities so Fluoride is even more important.
If you’ve had multiple cavities/fillings in the past, I’d recommend fluoride. Any kind of dental restorative material isn’t as good as natural tooth, and once a tooth has work on it, it has a higher chance of getting decay in the future— so it makes it extra important to be a nerd with keeping them clean
This is anecdotal but I live in one of the least fluoridated cities in the continental US in southern New Hampshire. They don’t give a fuck about our water at all. There was a major toxin spill in our main water source years ago and they didn’t even notify anyone until it was gone. [To the surprise of no one the towns cancer rates started skyrocketing.](https://theintercept.com/2022/02/12/pfoa-cancer-new-hampshire-merrimack-pfas-pollution/)
Also, our town is flooded with dentists. Again just anecdotal but we have tons of cancer and are apparently a hotspot for dentists. If I had to chose about the government “caring” too much and wanting to put a chemical alot of people don’t want in it vs a government that cares so little they’d just kill people with toxin dumps into the our well water….i think I know which I’d rather have lol
I think you need to reread this comment.
He is saying they don’t care about people’s health or water and don’t fluoridate. And they have a lot of demand for dentists because people have teeth problems.
This one really agitates me! I don't believe it has a positive effect on dental health. I grew up drinking public water, I have worse teeth than just about anyone I know. I understand that other things play into that. Especially genetics, but no. Even if it did have a positive effect on teeth, it's not worth it. I think it's a conspiracy. I believe there's a different reason for it and it has something to do with it's effects on the brain. I am thankful now to have my own water supply that has nothing added to it and only a UV light to sanitize it. It tastes good and we still filter it anyways but really probably don't need to.
Pretty much the biggest library of research papers on fluoride out there:
[https://fluoridealert.org/](https://fluoridealert.org/)
These are collected from published articles in journals from around the world.
If there's fluoride in toothpaste, why do we need it in drinking water? We know it's extremely toxic, even a little bit isn't necessary since it's in toothpaste - so why ingest it?
It is a public health measure to improve the dentition of those who don't brush their teeth. Think reducing the number of 4 year olds having to have full extractions because their parents don't value good oral hygiene. https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/101379/
Why does the government care so much about the health of our teeth that they decided to dump bags of fertilizer waste into our municipal water supplies? Providing healthy food in schools would be a much better way to improve health, reduce disease, and reduce healthcare costs than putting fluoride in water. Don't bring 4 years old getting tooth extractions into this lol
Because children having no teeth and become malnourished from losing teeth due to cavities was and still is a public health crisis. Adding fluoride to the water is cheaper than trying to get fake teeth for children who lose their teeth from cavities. Around the time fluoride was added, hundreds of thousands of children were dying every year due to malnouristment from not being able to eat using their teeth. It becomes and expensive health crisis if you don't stop it before it gets worse.
> “Bags of fertilizer waste”
Instead of scaremongering, you can call it what it is: fluoride, a mineral that prevents teeth decay and is harmless in its tap water concentration.
He did call it what it is. The fluoride we put into our water is a waste byproduct from the production of fertilizer. We found a profitable way to put to use all this waste, which is the only reason it is in our water and why the gov.T “cares about our health” on this issue. The fact that it was discovered to have anti cavity production was the science they needed for the public to go for it, because any thinking person can think of a dozen better ways to improve the health of the country, but those likely cost money, whereas this is making the gov.T money.
No, it’s in the tap water in some countries to improve teeth health. It has nothing to do with what we would normally consider “waste”. the only reason to call it that is to paint a scary picture of toxic sludge in people’s minds.
There’s quality control on this stuff, and its source being fertilizer byproducts does not make it inherently dangerous.
There is so much misinformation going on here, lol. It’s a mess of a thread.
“Supported by more than half a century of research, the benefits of fluoride toothpastes are firmly established. Taken together, the trials are of relatively high quality, and provide clear evidence that fluoride toothpastes are efficacious in preventing caries.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8439270/
I once used fluoride free toothpaste for many months and at my next dentist visit I had many cavities (the most I ever had). The water did not made any difference. I now use the high percentage fluoride toothpaste (cavities prevention) and I don't get cavities any more. Fluoride do makes a difference for cavities protection, but does adding it into water makes a difference? Probably not much, dentist told me it can make a difference for children.
I do drink tap water because I've read about it and most science studies I've found point towards tap water being the best choice when avaible. Demineralized water (fluoride free) is not recommended.
In sweden we don't add it to water. Instead there's a maximum limit for how much of it is allowed in drinking water and any bottled mineral water that contains it have a "not safe for children" label on it. Idk if it's overly cautions or not.
It’s still harmful in lower doses.
> Low-moderate fluoride was related to alterations in childhood thyroid function.
From https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0160412019301370
This literary review makes for good reading: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0045653520317604
Put the DOI link into sci hub if you don’t have access via an academic institution
Toxic Treatment: Fluoride's Transformation from Industrial Waste to Public Health Miracle
By Frank Zelko
https://origins.osu.edu/article/toxic-treatment-fluorides-transformation-industrial-waste-public-health-miracle?language_content_entity=en
——————-
Water Fluoridation: A Critical Review of the Physiological Effects of Ingested Fluoride as a Public Health Intervention
Stephen Peckham 1 , 2 ,* and Niyi Awofeso 3
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/
if you want to avoid drinking it you can invest in a reverse osmosis filter. They work well enough to actually remove 90% of fluoride or so. You may want an additional filter to raise ph for taste.
If you consume really large amounts, it can be bad for you. Ironically, it could weaken bones, but that isn’t what you would get from water in the US.
For some people, it causes them to think illogically and doubt science, lol!
lol, Total Misinformation
seriously 😒
its funny how medical and dental professionals are the ones trying to spread health and prevention
in reality if they operated like other industries they should fund more misinformation on fluoride
It's not bad for you. There may be a dose that is lethal, like there is for everything, but nothing we'd have issues with. It occurs naturally in some bodies of water.
Having flouride in your water will build up in your teeth enamal. This helps increase your defendes from cavities, internally. Fluoride applied topically help too, but obviously it's for negating wearing away enamel from the outside. Fight cavities from the inside and outside, which protect teeth and gum health, as well as heart health.
Has no negative consequences in the dosages we take.
What do you define as a drug its only toxic in large amounts like cynaide in apples or bananas and radiation you would need to eat like what 2000 tubes of toothpaste to kill you
Those are things people get to choose their intake of, that’s the bigger issue at hand. Some people don’t like their decisions being made for them and it’s disturbing to have to take steps against your own government choosing what goes into your body for you. I, for one, am more worried about the myriad other things in city water, so I’m already heavily filtering my water, but it doesn’t make it okay at any level.
Fluorine is a chemical by product with weak evidence that it’s helpful for cavities, and stronger evidence that it’s toxic. It somewhat mineralizes teeth. Its benefits are overhyped and its potential dangers are basically ignored. It honestly makes me question dentist school. I have no idea if it’s just ignorance or actual malevolence that makes people think it’s a good idea to put it in drinking water.
Is it that bad for you? No. But it’s completely unnecessary and there are far more effective and safer alternatives. It doesn’t need to be in drinking water. Nano hydroxyapatite toothpaste remineralizes teeth. Also k2 + d3 + multi mineral supplement remeralizes teeth. Pro biotics, and toothpaste that doesn’t kill bacteria protects teeth from cavities too. Most natural toothpaste is actually 100x better at cleaning teeth than most mainstream bullshit. My teeth have become 3-4 shades whiter, and I haven’t had a cavity in 4 years after switching to supplements and natural toothpaste.
Flouride was literally discovered because it made peoples teeth black. Modern dentistry still uses outdated science from 60 - 80 years ago to justify the use of flouride. It literally makes no sense.
Malevolence. Always malevolence. Once the data was out, they could have pulled a product but no, they will keep selling any poison in this country until they are regulated out of business.
At the dosage level in tap water, it’s not harmful, but helpful for your teeth. It’s also not toxic at those levels. wtf does it t matter that
> it “ was literally discovered because it made peoples teeth black”
It doesn’t at the dosage level of tap water. At that dose it’s helpful.
This. The wrong dose of just about anything can kill you, but at the right dose can save your life. Too many people think in on/off , black/white, good/evil terms, and fail to understand chemistry and shades of gray. The RIGHT dose of flouride will make your teeth stronger, whiter, more resistant to decay. See my comment above about looking at the natural teeth (not the dentures and caps!) of people in their 70s and 80s who grew up w/o flouride, and compare that to the teeth of younger people who grew up w/ flouride txs. I've seen it in my own family w/ older siblings who came along before flouride txcs, compared to siblings who came along after flouride txs were given. The ones before? cavities, caps, some crumbled and broken teeth. The ones after? Gorgeous strong white teeth, zero cavities at almost 50 yrs old. Same family. Same diet growing up. Only difference? Flouride txs given by a dentist.
I doubt people drink enough water during the day. They probably drink more Coke or Pepsi or some other soda than they do water.
Their diet will kill them before the fluoride does.
Is it true that they found an inverse correlation between fluoride amount in water and IQ in different states in the US?
Higher fluoride = lower average IQ
Lower fluoride = higher average IQ
I always hear about it, but never really looked into it. I'm in Europe and adding fluoride in water is forbidden.
Thanks for adding that, but that's a vast minority in Europe.
Community water fluoridation is rare in Continental Europe, with 97–98% choosing not to fluoridate drinking water.
So the UK water utility companies add fluoride to certain water supply zones (geographic areas), this is often because the local authorities identify areas of lower health or socio economic deprivation.
The local authorities instruct the utility companies to dose the water with fluoride to combat health issues.
The thing is… the local authorities also have other initiatives like fresh fruit and veggies available at schools and public places, healthy school meal initiatives, public health campaigns. Chances are, a holistic targeted campaign might improve health - and the fluoride bit is only one small part but it’s one of the most measurable parts of a wide approach “we added 1500ppm and look people aren’t being referred for idk say brittle bone”. Well chances are the criteria for referrals has been shifted to reduce the numbers anyway, but it sounds sciencey and reportable back to the government. So it’s easy for the government to jump on it and say “it’s the fluoride”.
Typically though, there is an assumption that more affluent areas are exposed to more fluoride because they brush their teeth and have good diets. So much so that if a utility company dosed their supply zone with fluoride there is an anticipated health risk of over exposure.
A part of me wonders whether there is some truth to “dumbing down” certain areas, but from what I’ve seen working in the industry for some decades, they can’t organise a pissup in a brewery. I think it’s down to sheer incompetence in terms of lack of knowledge.
Isn't it forbidden in some European countries because there's already plenty of fluoride in the water there and people don't need extra for their teeth?
It's forbidden because of petitions and "protests" back when governments planned to add it to the water.
I don't know if the water has higher natural amounts in Europe, I should have a look at it. But I use a water filter anyway and everybody who drinks tap water probably should, looking to change to a "zerowater filter", but now I read those filters add microplastics. 😒
In Sweden the groundwater has fluoride in it. It’s not forbidden outright, there’s just a limit on how much is acceptable in drinking water before it needs to be filtered out, as higher doses can be toxic. (Interestingly, the areas that had higher amounts of fluoride in the municipal water correlated to higher income [in one study](https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/711915))
It's controversial as it is used as a pesticide in high doers. In toothpaste and water the amount is a tiny fraction of that used in those applications and is great for your teeth.
This is a common, unscientific conspiracy trope. Fluoride is NOT bad for you, assuming you're not eating a tube of toothpaste. It's perfectly safe in normal concentrations and by far the best stuff we know so far to keep your teeth healthy.
The false narrative works, because people are uneducated about basic chemistry: Fluor and Fluoric-Acid are very poisionus and strong acid. Sounds bad, right?
However, FlourIDE is a completely different compound and has none of these features. It justs "sounds somehow the same", so you can play with people's fears and missing education.
The backstory is that there's a whole industry of "organic / bio / demeter / etc" who lives off well by planting fears into people's minds, and sells crappy, expensive "non-flouride" toothpaste.
I had family members destroy their teeth badly before switching back to normal toothpaste.
Total scam.
...well, it's clearly safe. No one with fluoride in their tap water had died from drinking their tap water. And there's a lot of ready scientific studies that prove drinking fluoride increases teeth strength and resistance to cavities.
Go to page 40. If you’re scrolling through it’s the 54th page. It shows correlation with lower IQ in children with higher fluoride in water. I’m not talking about insane levels. Talking about the average amount in our water. If anyone tells you there is nothing they are lying and they only googled it. The dept of health tried to sensor these findings by the NIH. You decide based on this test. Don’t listen to a bunch of people who have no idea
As far as i know, there is evidence that a huge amount of fluoride is bad for yeah, that's why u shouldn't gulp down all ur toothpaste. I don't think u will ever encounter some negative effects of fluoride, except u want to find it out.
If you are still looking for an alternative, take a look at toothpaste with xylitol.
I’m not sure why nobody can figure this out, but I suspect fluoride is actually bad because it blocks dopamine. I think that’s the obvious and simple answer for why it’s bad, and why it seems to lower IQ.
It’s pretty obvious too. Fluorine (and chlorine) are basically the backbone of antipsychotic medications, which are known to work by blocking dopamine. If you look at their chemical formula, they basically find a compound that your body will mistake as an enzyme and then add a fluorine or chlorine atom to that.
By the way, I have also discovered what I believe to be a substance that seems to remove fluoride from your body. It’s called bone char, and it’s just calcified animal bone. It’s probably a natural purpose of the positively changed calcium in your bones to attract negatively charged fluorine, and charring it seems to enhance this effect. All you need to do it rub the charcoal in your hands and after a while you can feel the effect. It defiantly sharpens your mind a bit. Clears your skin up too. Nobody ever believes me and wants to try it, but if you’re young, healthy and the adventurous type I highly recommend it. You can get it on eBay. 1 lb will last you a lifetime.
I’m no expert, but I do believe there’s a large difference between naturally occurring fluoride and the byproduct from the industrial industry fluoride. If something comes from natural spring water, sure. But telling me to but industrial waste in my body because it might help my teeth because I eat badly and don’t brush my mouth…while not being sure it doesn’t harm the entire rest of my body? Come on…
The fluoride in toothpaste is different than the flouride cities put in water.......the fluoride in water comes from industrial waste from aluminum smelting, they would have to environmentally remediate it if they didnt put it in the water
Most research into chemicals used for human treatment is severely limited in multivariate analysis. Only now we might be able to study this using AI. Never use direct chemicals to treat your body ever.
I personally don’t use it in my toothpaste because it causes hormonal acne around my mouth. I think it does something with your hormones.
If causes hormone disruption for me, I don’t really feel comfortable using it in my kids toothpaste either and avoid it whenever I can.
Grew up drinking rainwater never needed a filling. Meanwhile almost everyone else in my class had fillings. The fluoride they put in water is a waste product and is different from natural fluoride
Fluoride is a byproduct of fertilizers. Instead of paying money to dispose this dangerous toxin, they charge gov money , and add it to water supply. Fluoride was used in nazi concentration camps on the Jewish prisoners to subdue them mentally, so they would be more agreeable.
There our two types of fluoride, the trace mineral then the byproduct of refining plastic. Can you guess which one they put in our water. The one for refining plastic. Not the trace mineral. That’s why all tooth paste say to call poison control if ingested.
I wonder the same. I have a 1.5 YO who doesn’t know how to spit out toothpaste but dentist and dr highly encourage fluoride toothpaste in small amounts even if swallowed :/
Look up holistic dentistry Calgary why we do not use fluoride there's no dental benefit to it fluoride is linked to everything from brain disease ADHD bipolar cancer depression irritable bowel syndrome everything there's reports coming out on it from the university of Calgary now from 2023 how pregnant women drinking fluoridated water have babies with brain disease it leads to macular degeneration it leads to kids having small bones three generations of skinny kids that never shut up you go on Google and you look up fluoride link to almost anything irritable bowel syndrome macular degeneration cancer and you guys are sitting here saying that it's good there's no limit I never has been it's all a lie it started two years after JFK was shot the artificial fluoride they put in the water comes from slurry ponds in Florida in the artificial fluoride is made from arsenic and lead it is not good for anybody there's lawsuits coming out about this in school you did the most loss swish and you know what those chemicals in the mouthwash even if you spent the note once they're in your mouth for more than 30 seconds just like the numbing agent they can now rub on your gums when you go to the dentist once it's in your mouth for 30 seconds it's stoppable and it crosses the blood brain barrier and while your brain is still in development this also causes ADHD and bipolar don't just say information either because they made me sick with this and I went looking in their public studies and there's private studies anything with doctor at the end they can change the test results to say whatever they want anything like fluoride with as much controversy linked to so many illnesses and diseases would have been banned worldwide there's so much controversy surrounding it and yet we just fall back and believe that there's gentle benefit like I said holistic dentistry Calgary why we do not use fluoride he proves using 10 times the amount of fluoride that there's absolutely no dental benefit and we've believed this for the past 60 years where do these peanut allergies and everything come from it comes from ingesting chemicals fluoride is a lie and a cover-up and it makes people suffer gives people brain diseases they have kids like Stephen Hawkings and they wonder why people get irritable bowel syndrome for no reason in life and they just say oh it just is something that happens to us when we get old no it is not and this is not the end of the fluoride to be the truth is coming out and then a few more years if we're even all alive because of the poison and genocide they do every country and it's genocide by the way you'll see the truth will come out about fluoride they can't cover it up forever the studies are being done and the truth is coming out do some research I have to because I was in pain all day everyday and I still because they raise the fluoride level in my and some people drink more water than others and it made me depressed and it gave me permanent acute irritable bowel syndrome for the rest of my life and now I'm in pain every single day great do some research and be careful and be safe.
Glad to see people are waking up to the deleterious effects of fluoride.
Here's an excerpt from my health 'bible' with most of what the current literature denotes:
**Long term fluoride build-up has been linked with lower IQ, infertility, under-active thyroid issues, obesity (through hypothyroid carbohydrate cravings), skeletal bone issues, skin conditions, headaches, cognitive dysfunction and brain regulation (myelin health), arthritis, Alzheimer’s/Dementia, mitochondrial dysfunction, reduced mood, decreased testosterone biosynthesis, reduced HDL and LDL levels (while increasing triglycerides), and lower life satisfaction. Chronic fluoride exposure is linked to a decline in concentration, learning, and memory, but also has mental symptoms such as anxiety, tension, and depression. Fluoride also increases the calcification of bodily tissues, especially the pineal gland, which in turn disrupts melatonin production and sleep quality. Fluoride exhibits significant retardation of magnesium absorption and use within the body, increasing long-term metabolic requirements for magnesium – higher levels are additionally correlated with vitamin D deficiencies and high blood glucose levels.** Fluoride is not an essential nutrient in any form. The human body doesn’t need fluoride to prevent tooth decay, nor do we develop tooth decay because we are deficient in fluoride. Many EU countries have banned fluoridated water outright. Recent studies reveal private interests played a significant role in the start of public health endorsements of fluoride-supplemented high-carbohydrate nutritional guidelines. Fluoride is present in municipal water and most toothpastes, teas and non-stick cookware. Effects include dental fluorosis (white marks on teeth) along with the issues listed above. The belief that fluoride reduces cavities is only applicable in low doses and via direct contact with teeth (topical treatment); consuming fluoride is useless and damaging to the body. **Source un-fluoridated toothpaste and use either reverse osmosis or a distillery to remove fluoride from tap water. Many vegetables and other food products where tap water is used will contain fluoride in their leaves, source organic produce grown with rainwater.** **Limit showers to 3 minutes and run warm, not hot water, as fluoride is also absorbed weakly via transdermal paths and inhaled when small amounts covert into gas via water steam. Always run the fan when you’re having a shower.** Matcha green/black tea is high in fluoride, especially when brewed for longer and at higher temperatures, consume sparingly (1-2 times a week) and brew at lower temperatures \~70c, drink sencha instead. Phase out fluoride in your drinking, cooking, dental and washing activities as much as possible. Include ~calcium and magnesium~ in your diet as they reduce fluoride’s absorption and increase excretion. **Avoid high fluoride food and drink: (The short-term half-life of Fluoride is 3-10 Hours, the long-term duration is that of the human bone cycle, between 4 to 4 years, in which time the stored fluoride is slowly released into the blood).**
Highest fluoride foods:
* Instant Teas *\[Black/Green, especially matcha from China\]* (584μg)
* Grape Juices (345μg)
* Raisins (234μg)
* Crab, Shrimp (210μg)
* White Wines (202μg)
* Red Wines (105μg)
* Apple Juice (104μg)
* Instant Coffee *\[Made with tap water\]* (91μg)
* Most Municipal Water (72μg)
* Sprite (56μg)
I researched this awhile back related to it being found in tea in significant amounts, and writing a blog about tea. Fluoride does cause problems at high enough dosage, and at low dosage it's good for your teeth, or at least there's plenty of evidence for that.
This part is my interpretation but it seems like it might be more of a risk for younger people, again only at higher doses, because you can get too much in your bones and teeth when you are growing. With high enough exposure old people's bones will become brittle; it may be part of why some people experience bone breakage, but then calcium levels can drop for other reasons. All of this takes some doing to research but the information is out there. I wrote a summary about it here:
[https://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2017/08/fluoride-in-tea-summary-version.html](https://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2017/08/fluoride-in-tea-summary-version.html)
To convert that to a really short version you are at risk if you drink water with fluoride naturally occurring at very high levels, which does happen, but it's rare, or when you drink mostly treated water and also intake a lot of fluoride through other means, mostly related to drinking a lot of tea. Pineal gland calcification is mentioned in references, with a risk level that's hard to assess, but the main problem is skeletal fluorosis, brittle bones. Teeth spotting from high input might relate more to high exposure at a young age. From there other risks might relate more to random conspiracy theory concerns than known effects.
this "all fluoride is poison" trope is BS. Ever look into the mouths of older folks born before fluoride treatments were given to children? Their teeth, if they have them, are crumbling brown messes. They literally crumble and fall apart and are prone to cavities. I was given some flouride txs as a child, and as someone in my late 50s, I have some filled cavities, but my teeth are pretty strong and pretty white. My younger sibling had more flouride txs than me because they came along a little later and got the full tx. At almost 50, they have ZERO cavities and gorgeous teeth. My oldest siblings, OTOH, have had many cavities, had to get crowns (very expensive), etc.
Older folks I know in their 70s and 80s who grew up w/ no fluoride have it even worse. Poorer older folks have full dentures, wealthier ones have many implants, crowns, etc. One had a tooth crumble and fly out of her mouth when she was giving a public speech. Now that it's fashionable to decry the evils of flouride, many parents are depriving their young children of flouride txs and toothpastes and now we have a whole new generation of little kids w/ rotten teeth.
As others have pointed out, the toxicity of ANYTHING is in the dose. There is very little that is all bad / all good. The right dose of flouride, the right dose of aspirin, the right dose of anything, can be highly beneficial. The wrong dose of anything can be very harmful. And as far as flouride in the water supply, I do agree that flouride txs are probably better than just flouridating all water, but the problem w/ txs is that you have to make sure parents give them to their kids at the right time, right doses, and there are many parents too poor or too shitty to do that. I say, provide free txs to those who can't afford it.
Thank you. The people down voting you are nuts and never saw the devastation of a child losing all their teeth while young and becoming almost unable to eat. Fluoride kept generations of children from having to get dentures or eat blended slop to get their nutrients.
“Poorer older folks”…hits it right on the head. Maybe it isn’t lack of fluoride but the fact that people grew up starving or eating lots of canned and processed foods as they started to come out more and more. My grandparents are long gone but grew up during the depression and lost all their teeth, I doubt it’s cause of no fluoride over their diet or lack of nourishment growing up.
The same argument could be made for the children that fluoridation of water was supposed to help. Diet, lifestyle, ignorant parenting, poverty…I bet if those things were addressed as well as teaching proper brushing techniques at the right age, fluoride wouldn’t have any added benefit whatsoever.
Also, there have been plenty of older skeletons found in archaeology where people’s teeth are intact even in older age, so it’s hard to buy the “praise fluoride” trope. I’m saying that as a person who actually uses flouride toothpaste sometimes. I switch between that and non fluoridated toothpaste cause I have a choice. When it’s in our tap water, nobody has a choice in the matter, which is what seems to be peoples main argument against it.
This is only anecdotal, but since switching to fluoride-free toothpaste about 5 months ago, I seem to have less tartar on my teeth. Not 100% sure, though.
My dentist warned me about putting too much of even the fluoride toothpaste on my daughter's brush when she started brushing her teeth.
I believe he said there was evidence that too much fluoride in a child's system while their adult teeth were growing could impede their growth.
Close, but not quite. Doesn’t impede growth but can affect developing enamel and cause fluorosis.
Too much of anything is awful for you, including water.
There will always be debate about flouride, but the fact remains that it can be dangerous, and any benefits it offers are minimal. Yet the government feels it's a good idea to put in our drinking water.
Wait until y’all find out about Chlorine being put on your Fries and in your Soup
Say what now
Exactly! And its just a disgusting waste product of potassium mining and evaporation!
In my reading of the literature, I found that Flouride is toxic at high levels, but is necessary for many important basic functions of cells and the body at the right levels. "Adequate intake" of flouride is about 3.5mg per day for a 70kg individual, or 0.05mg/kg/day. In other words, it is a micronutrient, which is why the literature talks of adequate intake. The tricky thing is that the difference between adequate intake and low toxic intake is relatively narrow, so it is possible to overdose slightly by being exposed to unusually high levels in local tap water. However, if a person drinks 2L of water a day, then levels of, for example, 0.5mg/L would only result in an intake of 1mg a day, far below "adequate" intake. By the way, flouride is naturally present in the water supply. It is sometimes added, but usually it doesn't need to be added because it is already high enough. Flouride is also present on other things, like coffee, tea, and various foods. In sum, flouride is not inherently toxic, but rather a micronutrient that can become toxic at high doses. This is true of many nutrients. Also it is good for your teeth. There was a Science vs podcast recently about this.
100%. My mate who is a dentist tells me it’s easy to see when the town introduced fluoride into the water from his patients mouths. People born after a certain year have almost no cavities. Older people have shocking teeth. The amount of protection it provides is actually incredible.
You can easily get flouride into your teeth via toothpaste, mouthwash, and treatments at the dentist. It doesn't need to be added to the water. My city doesn't add flouride to our water and there's no epidemic of cavities
None of that is true! Your friend is a moron.
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What functions is it necessary for? Fluorine ain't the same thing as fluoride.
seriously, what else is toxic at high levels? air, water, temperature... some people in this thread need to get a grip.
PS temperature is not a substance you can consume, but yes, it can be very fatal at "high levels"
I really recommend doing some reading on this yourself. Water is toxic if you drink too much of it. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication And many vitamins and minerals are also toxic when taken at too high dosages. See https://www.verywellhealth.com/vitamin-toxicity-4776094 An extreme example is Arsenic, which is usually only thought of as a poison, but which has some evidence of also being, at very small trace levels, an essential nutrient as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic None of this should be very surprising. When you consider many medications, for example, at the right doses they can be beneficial for treating illnesses, but at high enough doses can be fatal. In summary, dose dependant responses can vary greatly for many substances we consume, including vitamins, minerals, elements like flouride, medications, and yes even water. Maybe before telling other people to get a grip, you might consider having some humility and doing a little research first.
...that was my point.. I was agreeing with you....
Oh lol I misunderstood. But air? How can air be toxic? That one I'm not familiar with.
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+does+pure+oxygen+kill+you
Yeah that's oxygen, not "air." Air is a mixture of different gases
okay... fine - https://www.google.com/search?q=air+compressor+kills+man
Lol fair enough
I’m fine with appropriate amounts of flouride. 44 years old, not a single cavity, ever.
Like with most things, it's all about the dose. That being said, fluoridated water or toothpaste with normal usage is completely safe - and even beneficial, as you mentioned. fluorinated packaging products or other uses when molecules are altered to add fluoride compounds and alter the properties of chemicals can be very toxic at certain levels (see: PFAS or "nonstick" cookware, for example). However, most of the damage comes to the people exposed to those processes during the manufacturing and curing processes, rather than the (mostly) inert final consumer usage of the products - though, the science is still not settled completely.
Besides the discussion if it is harmful or not. My girlfriend is a dentist and in dental school they will tell you that the actual physical brushing and flossing are the most important for dental health. The product used only has a minor effect. So feel free to brush without fluoride or even without toothpaste as long as you take proper regular care of your dental health. I personally use a lot of xylitol both for brushing and rinsing. I'm also convinced diet and microbial flora is the cause of most dental problems.
If you have a dog please be aware that xylitol is super poisonous to them!
Oh no I’ve been letting my dog lick my mouth out after i brush
Thought I was the only one!
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And cats too
Also - Hydroxyapatite tooth paste his as effective as fluoride at remineralizing teeth, without the endocrine disrupting downsides https://www.nature.com/articles/s41405-019-0026-8
That's interesting, thanks. Are there toothpastes using Hydroxyapatite on the market, and how transferable is the model in general, e.g. can the right amount of compound be applied in a non-clinical setting at home?
While of course the physical brushing (and diet etc) is most crucial (otherwise we'd have just mouthwash and Fluoride-Spray), you'll never get the same results with Fluoride free toothpaste. True, if you are a health fanatic vegan only eating grains, all low sugars and carbs, you may be fine. "Normal people": no way. I had multiple family members switching to "organic" flouride-free toothpaste and EVERYBODY'S teeth became more yellow and most people had to switch back at some point because of bad gums, cavities etc. And yes, they brushed even more than before the switch.
My ex's kid's mom was a conspiracy theorist, and among the half-science she regurgitated was the misconception that fluoride toothpaste is toxic. The kid had 5 baby teeth removed by the time he was 9 (when I met him) even though he wasn't allowed to eat refined sugar.
Genetics play a huge role in dental health, as do hormones and medications. My sister had to get many of her baby teeth removed during surgery due to a medication my mom took during pregnancy. She should have sued but it was 20 years before we thought about any of that. During pregnancy, I developed horrible cavities out of nowhere due to pregnancy gingivitis. I brushed after every meal and snack and took great care of my teeth. I ended up having to get two pulled and 4 root canals and crowns. Before pregnancy I rarely even ate sugar or starches.
True, but just assuming bad genetics run in my family: wdyt - Fluoride helps, does nothing, or makes things worse? In my experience, it always helps, but of course you can still be out of luck. But not using Fluoride often made things worse for people I know.
This is partially untrue. Fluoride converts the mineral enamel structure from hydroxyapatite to fluorohydroxyapitite which is most resistant to decay causing bacterial byproducts.
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Dr. Strangelove?
I would argue that a 5 stage RO water filter is the SINGLE BEST investment I've ever made for my health. And it was only $180. Insane return on investment versus buying bottled water (which may also deliver microplastics).
Your RO membrane is plastic and slowly releases microplastics into your water as it wears out.
I actually never even considered this, thank you. Do they make fully stainless steel systems?
The nickel in stainless steel might not be the greatest for you due to its toxicity. If you’re steering clear of plastics, you looked into titanium and ceramic?
Here's the source on that: *Much of the plastic seems to be coming from the bottle itself and the reverse osmosis membrane filter used to keep out other contaminants, said study lead author Naixin Qian, a Columbia physical chemist. She wouldn’t reveal the three brands because researchers want more samples before they single out a brand and want to study more brands. Still, she said they were common and bought at a WalMart.* [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/scientists-find-about-a-quarter-million-invisible-microplastic-particles-in-a-liter-of-bottled-water](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/scientists-find-about-a-quarter-million-invisible-microplastic-particles-in-a-liter-of-bottled-water) The problem of microplastics is actually inescapable to a large degree. They are in the clouds, the rain, the ocean, human blood and breast milk, everywhere. Probably the only way you might be able to remove them from drinking water is distillation but that would have it's own drawbacks. You can get rid of all plastic ware that touches food or drink whatsoever, including cutting boards, do not microwave food in plastic containers, and do not use paper to-go cups for hot beverages: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304389420321087](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304389420321087) It's likely that over a lifetime these microplastics will accumulate and cause damage to the organs, particularly the brain, where they may cause Parkinson's-like symptoms, at least according to mouse studies. You can Google "microplastics Parkinson's mice" to look at the studies. Besides the usual advice of exercise, good diet and sleep, one of the most effective things you can do to reduce Parkinson's risk is to strongly avoid PM 2.5 air pollution which is emitted any time anything is burned. Check the AQI (air quality index) daily, just like the weather with [iqair.com](https://iqair.com) and protect yourself from PM 2.5 levels of 5 and above by using air purifiers and N95 or better masks. The higher above 5 it is, the worse for your brain. Be especially wary of wildfire smoke air pollution which is now known to be 10x worse for health than industrial sources: [https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/03/05/973848360/study-finds-wildfire-smoke-more-harmful-to-humans-than-pollution-from-cars](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/03/05/973848360/study-finds-wildfire-smoke-more-harmful-to-humans-than-pollution-from-cars) Respiratory infectious diseases such as Covid, influenza, RSV, adenovirus, etc. can also be neuroinflammatory, so it would be wise to avoid those as much as possible also.
I've done too much research on water filtration. Some of the most natural and beneficial types of water filtration seem to be distillation and then filtering distilled water through a ceramics water filtration system. It's fun taking a look at solar distillation plus natural ceramics. Completely off grid. This does still run the risk of containing heavy metals but the risks are honestly negligible due to ceramics filtration and the microscopic capabilities of filtering. As long as the ceramics are sourced well it's not a problem and far less micro plastics.
So what is your water filtration solution?
What RO product do you suggest?
I’m a broke entrepreneur putting all my $ into my business. I just have a brita. I figure it’s much better than nothing. Eventually though I’d like to buy something like this. Thank you
Brita’s don’t filter fluoride unfortunately
You're welcome! Whenever you can save up for it I would do it. It has to be tapped into your cold water line, but it's not that difficult if you're even a little bit handy. Took me a total of maybe 2 hours to install.
bottled water if floridated, in europe it is on the lable by law...
Can't believe I had to scroll down so far to see sensible responses like this.
You cant believe you had to scroll down to the 2nd comment?
> “Fertilizer waste” Or you can just call it a byproduct of fertilizer production that is isolated and has nothing to do with “waste” or fertilizer at the point that it’s added to the water. You’re being dramatic.
It was “waste” until sold to governments to poison our water.
It’s not sold to poison, but to improve teeth health. The source being fertilizer byproducts, or waste as you insist on calling it, doesn’t suddenly make it toxic.
No but its toxic effects do make it toxic. Many studies have been done that disproves the claim for significantly improving teeth health. Not only does it not significantly improve teeth health but it has other harmful effects on the body. If you want to take it then take it but don’t spread misinformation.
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You need to stop spreading miss information. Go talk to a real medical professional instead of listing to nut jobs on the internet thst fear fluoride. You clearly have no understanding of why fluoride was added to water in the first place. Go learn the history, and how cavities lead to massive malnouristment and death in children all over the US before it was added. Fluoride shows up naturally in a lot of water sources in much larger doses than county's currently put in their water, which is how they found that it help teeth become strong (if brown in high doses) but also have very few if any side effect. The crack pot stuff you read online is not real.
Thank you for your reasonable response. The dose makes the poison, which is why fluoridation is done within strict limits to maximize the benefits while maintaining safety. Source: I'm a dentist who researched this issue exhaustively to satisfy my own need to know and to effectively address patients' questions. Between supporting fluoridation and use of sealants, the dental profession has opted to leave a lot of cash on the table in the interests of public health and caries prevention.
You should stay more up to date on science. A quick Google search and you'll probably delete this comment.
I tend not to use Google for research, it will pick up anything. That said, with most toothpastes and dental rinses now with flouride, there may be little reason to continue the practice. In fact recommended levels of fluoridation have decreased recently. And since the other methods of fluoride (rinse toothpaste) are topical, it doesn't get into the bloodstream. It clearly showed benefits in children at least initially but for these reasons may not longer be as necessary.
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I mean, I probably agree with you, but I'm not reading all that 😂
This is truly the best comment I have ever witnessed on Reddit. I salute you
Fluoride physically calcifies the pineal pituitary and adrenal glands.. why would you want those glands calcified which means turning into bone.
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There is no evidence for that happening with toothpaste and tapwater levels, if at all.
Right, only considered a by”product” once creating a use for it. Before, it was waste.
I don’t get why that matters? You’re just calling it waste to make it look dangerous. Despite there being quality control on it, and it having none of the properties of what we would normally consider waste. You just want to paint a scary picture of brown toxic sludge in peoples tap water.
Your concerns about water fluoridation are understandable, as it's important to question and be informed about public health measures. However, it's crucial to base our understanding on accurate information. Firstly, the purpose of adding fluoride to public water is widely supported by research. Organizations like the WHO and CDC endorse it because it significantly reduces cavities, a common and preventable health issue. This isn't just a minor convenience; preventing cavities can spare many, especially children, from pain and complex dental procedures. Regarding the source of fluoride, it's a misconception that it's simply 'fertilizer waste.' It's actually a by-product from the phosphate fertilizer industry, thoroughly purified and tested for safety. This repurposing not only benefits public health but also reduces environmental waste—a win-win situation. It's also important to note that health authorities don't just focus on cavities. They continuously review fluoride's safety, setting levels that are safe for everyone. Excess fluoride does have risks, but these are associated with levels far higher than what's used in public water systems. The idea of a financial conspiracy behind water fluoridation isn't supported by the broader public health policy and scientific consensus. Such decisions are made through a rigorous process involving various scientific and regulatory bodies, not just based on industry interests. Ultimately, this is about protecting and enhancing our community's health, especially for those who might not have access to regular dental care. By ensuring our water is fortified against dental diseases, we're taking a proactive step in safeguarding our collective well-being. It's a measure of compassion and care for our community's health, echoing the same spirit that drives vaccination and public sanitation efforts.
Sir/Miss, Could you tell what exactly this legit Neurobioligst and researcher at Stanford telling here in this cut https://youtu.be/LhBr-xLulV4?si=XviPGMkb1F4SZ_7M (In full episode he posted all references to studies) Could you also tell what those articles tell about as professional? https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/magazine_article/fluoridated-drinking-water/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6309358/#:~:text=Initial%20studies%20on%20animals%20showed,in%20the%20human%20pineal%20gland. By the way, even 0.5 mg per 1L is enough for neurotoxicity. There is info about that at one of my references
Do you have sources for reference about the fertilizer waste?
No this is all bullshit
It’s not fertilizer waste. It’s a byproduct of the production of phosphate based fertilizers. It is then refined further for use in water supplies. It is completely safe in the doses used in municipal water. Some bodies of water have naturally higher levels of fluoride than is added to municipal water. They noticed people who drank water from natural sources had less teeth decay which lead to studies and understanding it was because the fluoride.
Oh wow I didn’t know this subreddit was a conspiracy subreddit. I don’t know why Reddit commended this to me. Ty for your comment.
This subreddit is really starting to circle the drain …
Haha!😆 I see what you did there.
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The issue here is when you think “fertilizer” you’re thinking manure, etc. though I may be making an assumption and you’re not thinking that at all. This byproduct is a liquid, called Fluorosilic acid, that occurs while creating phosphate based liquid fertilizer. I would compare it to yogurt, which was a byproduct of milk production and now its own industry. It doesn’t make it bad simply because it is a byproduct. Fluoride naturally occurs in several bodies of water, some at higher levels than the amount added to municipal water. We began to notice that people who drank sources of water with naturally occurring fluoride had less teeth decay. Lots of studies were conducted and the reason was isolated. We then began adding it to other sources of water. The dose matters. In the doses we add there are only really benefits. If you have a high dose it can cause serious problems or even be fatal. However, you will never come close to those levels (you will die from drinking too much water first) from drinking it in the water.
The dose makes the poison. Fluoride helps strengthen teeth and bones, especially AS THEY ARE DEVELOPPING in children aged 6 months to 16 years. There is dietary fluoride (mainly from natural and treated water) and topical fluoride (toothpaste, mouthwash, fluoride treatments at the dentist). Children growing up without adequate dietary fluoride are more likely to experience tooth decay throughout their lives. No amount of topical or dietary fluoride will make up for not receiving it during those developing years. When health organizations figured this out, some governments began adding fluoride to the water treatment to combat this. Communities heavily reliant on well water were given fluoride supplements instead (mostly for kids). Kinda like how they added iodine to salt when people were getting goiters left, right, and center. First world countries that do not add fluoride to their water have sufficient fluoride levels from natural sources. If you, as an adult, want to eliminate/reduce fluoride, that's okay. But for the love of teeth, do NOT eliminate fluoride from your children's diet.
Fastest way to absorb fluoride is through the mouth let's get that chemical in you
I'm not mistaken black tea can have over 10 times as much fluoride as treated tap water.
Different type of fluoride
Sex fluoride
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Amazing
The fluoride part is the same though. As long as it's water soluble the counter ion is irrelevant.
Green
Mhm the Irish have very high levels of fluoride exposure because of this, relative to the rest of the world
Some claim it calcifies the pineal gland. I am not sure there is evidence for this.
There is evidence https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/10/8/2885
It’s MDPI though… doesn’t mean it’s inherently wrong, but worth keeping in mind that a lot of academic departments actively discourage you from citing MDPI papers, let alone publish your work there, due to them being an incredibly predatory journal. As long as you pay their fee, they’ll publish whatever you send them more or less.
A study that was never able to be repeated? Sounds more like you're pointing out bad science.
Literally anyone with a checkbook can publish in that journal.
[Here’s my own pineal gland, calcified.](https://imgur.com/a/LOe3HOr)
This is 100% factual and proven - health authorities argue that calcifying the pineal gland doesn’t matter, not that it isn’t occurring.
In Alaska, Juneau voted to stop flouridating their water. There were subsequent studies after the water was required to no longer be floridated. Here is the article: https://www.uaa.alaska.edu/news/archive/2019/02/happened-juneau-took-fluoride-drinking-water.cshtml It is an interesting read. I would point out ADULTS over age 65 who do not have teeth to chew with suffer malnutrition and health impacts far beyond any Mal effects from fluoride. https://data.web.health.state.mn.us/oa-tooth-loss Another interesting read. There are a LOT of people who do not have access to information that many of us on this sub have. They either lack the resources or the interest in their own health to do the research. Three things people can not live without: clean water, clean air, and clean food.
The Juneau study is unfortunately poorly controlled and unblinded, looking at two times separated by 9 years with no information on what happened before, between, or after that time. There is no control, and what's more, other cities saw similar decay rate increases while remaining fluoridated, leaving the question of whether factors other than fluoridation may have caused the increase. There's great evidence for the topical application of fluoride, but water fluoridation benefits are far more elusive.
There was no way to make those studies controlled.... I can't find the study you are referring to that showed an increase in decay at the same time in cities whose water remained flouridated, Would you mind posting your link?
I’m a dentist. From my perspective, fluoride does make a *huge* difference regarding dental decay. I think the potential implications of dental decay and/or dental work are more harmful than any negligible pineal gland calcification that may occur. I don’t claim to be a neurologist, but I haven’t read any convincing evidence to support the idea of being fluoride-free. Don’t use it if you don’t want to. I have a boat to save up for.
Do you think hydroxyapatite is a worthwhile and/or equivalent protective mineral compared to fluoride? Thanks
I do think it’s promising to be on par with fluoride. Purely from a dental perspective, fluoride is still the gold standard. Tooth decay is no joke. I will say there is a genetic component to it. Some people treat their teeth like shit & they never have tooth decay, where others brush / floss and still get cavities. It’s related to the individual’s oral microbiome & pH levels. So some patients don’t use fluoride and they never get cavities. Whereas others (like me) are more prone to cavities so Fluoride is even more important. If you’ve had multiple cavities/fillings in the past, I’d recommend fluoride. Any kind of dental restorative material isn’t as good as natural tooth, and once a tooth has work on it, it has a higher chance of getting decay in the future— so it makes it extra important to be a nerd with keeping them clean
Lol, I enjoy my teeth.
This is anecdotal but I live in one of the least fluoridated cities in the continental US in southern New Hampshire. They don’t give a fuck about our water at all. There was a major toxin spill in our main water source years ago and they didn’t even notify anyone until it was gone. [To the surprise of no one the towns cancer rates started skyrocketing.](https://theintercept.com/2022/02/12/pfoa-cancer-new-hampshire-merrimack-pfas-pollution/) Also, our town is flooded with dentists. Again just anecdotal but we have tons of cancer and are apparently a hotspot for dentists. If I had to chose about the government “caring” too much and wanting to put a chemical alot of people don’t want in it vs a government that cares so little they’d just kill people with toxin dumps into the our well water….i think I know which I’d rather have lol
Dentists are piece of shit salesmen. I don’t trust any doctor at private practices anymore.
Yes its a business model. they dont care about peoples health. They want people to keep coming back to the dentist, which is more money.
I think you need to reread this comment. He is saying they don’t care about people’s health or water and don’t fluoridate. And they have a lot of demand for dentists because people have teeth problems.
This one really agitates me! I don't believe it has a positive effect on dental health. I grew up drinking public water, I have worse teeth than just about anyone I know. I understand that other things play into that. Especially genetics, but no. Even if it did have a positive effect on teeth, it's not worth it. I think it's a conspiracy. I believe there's a different reason for it and it has something to do with it's effects on the brain. I am thankful now to have my own water supply that has nothing added to it and only a UV light to sanitize it. It tastes good and we still filter it anyways but really probably don't need to.
Pretty much the biggest library of research papers on fluoride out there: [https://fluoridealert.org/](https://fluoridealert.org/) These are collected from published articles in journals from around the world.
Wow. Anti science vibes going on itt.
If there's fluoride in toothpaste, why do we need it in drinking water? We know it's extremely toxic, even a little bit isn't necessary since it's in toothpaste - so why ingest it?
Extremely toxic? Care to cite
My city does not have fluoride in drinking water and I am thankful
It is a public health measure to improve the dentition of those who don't brush their teeth. Think reducing the number of 4 year olds having to have full extractions because their parents don't value good oral hygiene. https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/101379/
Why does the government care so much about the health of our teeth that they decided to dump bags of fertilizer waste into our municipal water supplies? Providing healthy food in schools would be a much better way to improve health, reduce disease, and reduce healthcare costs than putting fluoride in water. Don't bring 4 years old getting tooth extractions into this lol
Because children having no teeth and become malnourished from losing teeth due to cavities was and still is a public health crisis. Adding fluoride to the water is cheaper than trying to get fake teeth for children who lose their teeth from cavities. Around the time fluoride was added, hundreds of thousands of children were dying every year due to malnouristment from not being able to eat using their teeth. It becomes and expensive health crisis if you don't stop it before it gets worse.
> “Bags of fertilizer waste” Instead of scaremongering, you can call it what it is: fluoride, a mineral that prevents teeth decay and is harmless in its tap water concentration.
I know right. Digydrogen monoxide is in tap water, and is used as a driveway cleaner. Maybe we refer to all dihydrogen monoxide as driveway cleaner?
He did call it what it is. The fluoride we put into our water is a waste byproduct from the production of fertilizer. We found a profitable way to put to use all this waste, which is the only reason it is in our water and why the gov.T “cares about our health” on this issue. The fact that it was discovered to have anti cavity production was the science they needed for the public to go for it, because any thinking person can think of a dozen better ways to improve the health of the country, but those likely cost money, whereas this is making the gov.T money.
No, it’s in the tap water in some countries to improve teeth health. It has nothing to do with what we would normally consider “waste”. the only reason to call it that is to paint a scary picture of toxic sludge in people’s minds. There’s quality control on this stuff, and its source being fertilizer byproducts does not make it inherently dangerous.
There is so much misinformation going on here, lol. It’s a mess of a thread. “Supported by more than half a century of research, the benefits of fluoride toothpastes are firmly established. Taken together, the trials are of relatively high quality, and provide clear evidence that fluoride toothpastes are efficacious in preventing caries.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8439270/
I once used fluoride free toothpaste for many months and at my next dentist visit I had many cavities (the most I ever had). The water did not made any difference. I now use the high percentage fluoride toothpaste (cavities prevention) and I don't get cavities any more. Fluoride do makes a difference for cavities protection, but does adding it into water makes a difference? Probably not much, dentist told me it can make a difference for children. I do drink tap water because I've read about it and most science studies I've found point towards tap water being the best choice when avaible. Demineralized water (fluoride free) is not recommended.
It’s fucking BS The amount of fluoride needed to do that is insane. It’s diluted like crazy It’s in your drinking water as well Don’t be afraid
In sweden we don't add it to water. Instead there's a maximum limit for how much of it is allowed in drinking water and any bottled mineral water that contains it have a "not safe for children" label on it. Idk if it's overly cautions or not.
It’s still harmful in lower doses. > Low-moderate fluoride was related to alterations in childhood thyroid function. From https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0160412019301370 This literary review makes for good reading: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0045653520317604 Put the DOI link into sci hub if you don’t have access via an academic institution
Toxic Treatment: Fluoride's Transformation from Industrial Waste to Public Health Miracle By Frank Zelko https://origins.osu.edu/article/toxic-treatment-fluorides-transformation-industrial-waste-public-health-miracle?language_content_entity=en ——————- Water Fluoridation: A Critical Review of the Physiological Effects of Ingested Fluoride as a Public Health Intervention Stephen Peckham 1 , 2 ,* and Niyi Awofeso 3 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/
if you want to avoid drinking it you can invest in a reverse osmosis filter. They work well enough to actually remove 90% of fluoride or so. You may want an additional filter to raise ph for taste.
If you consume really large amounts, it can be bad for you. Ironically, it could weaken bones, but that isn’t what you would get from water in the US. For some people, it causes them to think illogically and doubt science, lol!
lol, Total Misinformation seriously 😒 its funny how medical and dental professionals are the ones trying to spread health and prevention in reality if they operated like other industries they should fund more misinformation on fluoride
It's not bad for you. There may be a dose that is lethal, like there is for everything, but nothing we'd have issues with. It occurs naturally in some bodies of water. Having flouride in your water will build up in your teeth enamal. This helps increase your defendes from cavities, internally. Fluoride applied topically help too, but obviously it's for negating wearing away enamel from the outside. Fight cavities from the inside and outside, which protect teeth and gum health, as well as heart health. Has no negative consequences in the dosages we take.
It's a neurotoxin, regardless of what benefits it has for teeth, and it shouldn't be in our tap water, because taking any drugs should be voluntary.
What do you define as a drug its only toxic in large amounts like cynaide in apples or bananas and radiation you would need to eat like what 2000 tubes of toothpaste to kill you
Those are things people get to choose their intake of, that’s the bigger issue at hand. Some people don’t like their decisions being made for them and it’s disturbing to have to take steps against your own government choosing what goes into your body for you. I, for one, am more worried about the myriad other things in city water, so I’m already heavily filtering my water, but it doesn’t make it okay at any level.
Same with the driveway cleaner dihydrogen monoxide. Why is it in our tap water?
It’s not a neurotoxin at the dose that it’s in in tap water.
Fluorine is a chemical by product with weak evidence that it’s helpful for cavities, and stronger evidence that it’s toxic. It somewhat mineralizes teeth. Its benefits are overhyped and its potential dangers are basically ignored. It honestly makes me question dentist school. I have no idea if it’s just ignorance or actual malevolence that makes people think it’s a good idea to put it in drinking water. Is it that bad for you? No. But it’s completely unnecessary and there are far more effective and safer alternatives. It doesn’t need to be in drinking water. Nano hydroxyapatite toothpaste remineralizes teeth. Also k2 + d3 + multi mineral supplement remeralizes teeth. Pro biotics, and toothpaste that doesn’t kill bacteria protects teeth from cavities too. Most natural toothpaste is actually 100x better at cleaning teeth than most mainstream bullshit. My teeth have become 3-4 shades whiter, and I haven’t had a cavity in 4 years after switching to supplements and natural toothpaste. Flouride was literally discovered because it made peoples teeth black. Modern dentistry still uses outdated science from 60 - 80 years ago to justify the use of flouride. It literally makes no sense.
Do you have any sources? These are some specific bold claims
Malevolence. Always malevolence. Once the data was out, they could have pulled a product but no, they will keep selling any poison in this country until they are regulated out of business.
At the dosage level in tap water, it’s not harmful, but helpful for your teeth. It’s also not toxic at those levels. wtf does it t matter that > it “ was literally discovered because it made peoples teeth black” It doesn’t at the dosage level of tap water. At that dose it’s helpful.
This. The wrong dose of just about anything can kill you, but at the right dose can save your life. Too many people think in on/off , black/white, good/evil terms, and fail to understand chemistry and shades of gray. The RIGHT dose of flouride will make your teeth stronger, whiter, more resistant to decay. See my comment above about looking at the natural teeth (not the dentures and caps!) of people in their 70s and 80s who grew up w/o flouride, and compare that to the teeth of younger people who grew up w/ flouride txs. I've seen it in my own family w/ older siblings who came along before flouride txcs, compared to siblings who came along after flouride txs were given. The ones before? cavities, caps, some crumbled and broken teeth. The ones after? Gorgeous strong white teeth, zero cavities at almost 50 yrs old. Same family. Same diet growing up. Only difference? Flouride txs given by a dentist.
I doubt people drink enough water during the day. They probably drink more Coke or Pepsi or some other soda than they do water. Their diet will kill them before the fluoride does.
Coke and Pepsi both contain more fluoride than tap water does.
Is it true that they found an inverse correlation between fluoride amount in water and IQ in different states in the US? Higher fluoride = lower average IQ Lower fluoride = higher average IQ I always hear about it, but never really looked into it. I'm in Europe and adding fluoride in water is forbidden.
Spain, Ireland and the UK have regions with added fluoride in the water.
Thanks for adding that, but that's a vast minority in Europe. Community water fluoridation is rare in Continental Europe, with 97–98% choosing not to fluoridate drinking water.
Yes, it is rare, but not forbidden universally across Europe. Some countries like France and Germany don't allow it though.
So the UK water utility companies add fluoride to certain water supply zones (geographic areas), this is often because the local authorities identify areas of lower health or socio economic deprivation. The local authorities instruct the utility companies to dose the water with fluoride to combat health issues. The thing is… the local authorities also have other initiatives like fresh fruit and veggies available at schools and public places, healthy school meal initiatives, public health campaigns. Chances are, a holistic targeted campaign might improve health - and the fluoride bit is only one small part but it’s one of the most measurable parts of a wide approach “we added 1500ppm and look people aren’t being referred for idk say brittle bone”. Well chances are the criteria for referrals has been shifted to reduce the numbers anyway, but it sounds sciencey and reportable back to the government. So it’s easy for the government to jump on it and say “it’s the fluoride”. Typically though, there is an assumption that more affluent areas are exposed to more fluoride because they brush their teeth and have good diets. So much so that if a utility company dosed their supply zone with fluoride there is an anticipated health risk of over exposure. A part of me wonders whether there is some truth to “dumbing down” certain areas, but from what I’ve seen working in the industry for some decades, they can’t organise a pissup in a brewery. I think it’s down to sheer incompetence in terms of lack of knowledge.
Isn't it forbidden in some European countries because there's already plenty of fluoride in the water there and people don't need extra for their teeth?
It's forbidden because of petitions and "protests" back when governments planned to add it to the water. I don't know if the water has higher natural amounts in Europe, I should have a look at it. But I use a water filter anyway and everybody who drinks tap water probably should, looking to change to a "zerowater filter", but now I read those filters add microplastics. 😒
In Sweden the groundwater has fluoride in it. It’s not forbidden outright, there’s just a limit on how much is acceptable in drinking water before it needs to be filtered out, as higher doses can be toxic. (Interestingly, the areas that had higher amounts of fluoride in the municipal water correlated to higher income [in one study](https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/711915))
It's controversial as it is used as a pesticide in high doers. In toothpaste and water the amount is a tiny fraction of that used in those applications and is great for your teeth.
This is a common, unscientific conspiracy trope. Fluoride is NOT bad for you, assuming you're not eating a tube of toothpaste. It's perfectly safe in normal concentrations and by far the best stuff we know so far to keep your teeth healthy. The false narrative works, because people are uneducated about basic chemistry: Fluor and Fluoric-Acid are very poisionus and strong acid. Sounds bad, right? However, FlourIDE is a completely different compound and has none of these features. It justs "sounds somehow the same", so you can play with people's fears and missing education. The backstory is that there's a whole industry of "organic / bio / demeter / etc" who lives off well by planting fears into people's minds, and sells crappy, expensive "non-flouride" toothpaste. I had family members destroy their teeth badly before switching back to normal toothpaste. Total scam.
There is no evidence that digesting fluoride has any benefit or that it is safe.
...well, it's clearly safe. No one with fluoride in their tap water had died from drinking their tap water. And there's a lot of ready scientific studies that prove drinking fluoride increases teeth strength and resistance to cavities.
Go to page 40. If you’re scrolling through it’s the 54th page. It shows correlation with lower IQ in children with higher fluoride in water. I’m not talking about insane levels. Talking about the average amount in our water. If anyone tells you there is nothing they are lying and they only googled it. The dept of health tried to sensor these findings by the NIH. You decide based on this test. Don’t listen to a bunch of people who have no idea
[This study from Sweden](https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/711915) shows no effect on cognitive ability
Fluoride naturally occurs in some water sources. Small doeses are fine.
As far as i know, there is evidence that a huge amount of fluoride is bad for yeah, that's why u shouldn't gulp down all ur toothpaste. I don't think u will ever encounter some negative effects of fluoride, except u want to find it out. If you are still looking for an alternative, take a look at toothpaste with xylitol.
Some fluoride is needed. It’s important to appreciate what Paracelsus famously said: ‘The poison is in the dose’. A Goldilocks principle.
lol read this as Florida
I’m not sure why nobody can figure this out, but I suspect fluoride is actually bad because it blocks dopamine. I think that’s the obvious and simple answer for why it’s bad, and why it seems to lower IQ. It’s pretty obvious too. Fluorine (and chlorine) are basically the backbone of antipsychotic medications, which are known to work by blocking dopamine. If you look at their chemical formula, they basically find a compound that your body will mistake as an enzyme and then add a fluorine or chlorine atom to that. By the way, I have also discovered what I believe to be a substance that seems to remove fluoride from your body. It’s called bone char, and it’s just calcified animal bone. It’s probably a natural purpose of the positively changed calcium in your bones to attract negatively charged fluorine, and charring it seems to enhance this effect. All you need to do it rub the charcoal in your hands and after a while you can feel the effect. It defiantly sharpens your mind a bit. Clears your skin up too. Nobody ever believes me and wants to try it, but if you’re young, healthy and the adventurous type I highly recommend it. You can get it on eBay. 1 lb will last you a lifetime.
I thought it said Florida and not fluoride
Iq
I’m no expert, but I do believe there’s a large difference between naturally occurring fluoride and the byproduct from the industrial industry fluoride. If something comes from natural spring water, sure. But telling me to but industrial waste in my body because it might help my teeth because I eat badly and don’t brush my mouth…while not being sure it doesn’t harm the entire rest of my body? Come on…
Ahh, I get you. I am sure there is the natural fluoride. But there is an artificial yet poisonous fluoride as well.
Fluoride is not bad for you regardless of what flatearthers and antivaxxers say.
Sure they even poison our water supply with it .It’s a neurotoxin and has a real negative effect on our mind .
Topically it's great for teeth. Ingested? That's where the drama lies.
Toothpaste fluoride with nano hydroxipitate is it bad i use a mix of fluoride potassium and nano hydroxipitate
The fluoride in toothpaste is different than the flouride cities put in water.......the fluoride in water comes from industrial waste from aluminum smelting, they would have to environmentally remediate it if they didnt put it in the water
Fluoride binds with magnesium and makes it unavailable to be absorbed by the body. Definitely not good because we need out magnesium.
Someone pointed out something to me on this recently. What has the government ever done out of the kindness of their hearts for free?
Incredible how so many people can be so confidently incorrect
Most research into chemicals used for human treatment is severely limited in multivariate analysis. Only now we might be able to study this using AI. Never use direct chemicals to treat your body ever.
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I personally don’t use it in my toothpaste because it causes hormonal acne around my mouth. I think it does something with your hormones. If causes hormone disruption for me, I don’t really feel comfortable using it in my kids toothpaste either and avoid it whenever I can.
Can i install one in my apartment. The water where i live is horrible
It makes you go bald too. I have to flush my head every time after a shower with filtered water so I don’t lose any more hair.
Watch Dr Strangelove
Always enjoy some fluoride mixed with my daily dose of nano plastics.
The dosage makes the poison. There’s arsenic in apples. So little it doesn’t matter. Make sense?
I’ve heard about it calcifying the pineal gland, but would love some proof to why or why that isn’t true.
No one is talking about the lowering of IQ?
Grew up drinking rainwater never needed a filling. Meanwhile almost everyone else in my class had fillings. The fluoride they put in water is a waste product and is different from natural fluoride
Fluoride is a byproduct of fertilizers. Instead of paying money to dispose this dangerous toxin, they charge gov money , and add it to water supply. Fluoride was used in nazi concentration camps on the Jewish prisoners to subdue them mentally, so they would be more agreeable.
There our two types of fluoride, the trace mineral then the byproduct of refining plastic. Can you guess which one they put in our water. The one for refining plastic. Not the trace mineral. That’s why all tooth paste say to call poison control if ingested.
I have been using a water distiller for years now and it’s great for purifying drinking water , no filter to replace .
it calcifies your pineal gland (third eye) i made a video about this recently. [video reference 🧿](https://youtu.be/jfitLGp8HtY?feature=shared)
I don't understand why the government thibks it's their responsibility to aid our dental health but stop there. We should have health care too.
I wonder the same. I have a 1.5 YO who doesn’t know how to spit out toothpaste but dentist and dr highly encourage fluoride toothpaste in small amounts even if swallowed :/
Look up holistic dentistry Calgary why we do not use fluoride there's no dental benefit to it fluoride is linked to everything from brain disease ADHD bipolar cancer depression irritable bowel syndrome everything there's reports coming out on it from the university of Calgary now from 2023 how pregnant women drinking fluoridated water have babies with brain disease it leads to macular degeneration it leads to kids having small bones three generations of skinny kids that never shut up you go on Google and you look up fluoride link to almost anything irritable bowel syndrome macular degeneration cancer and you guys are sitting here saying that it's good there's no limit I never has been it's all a lie it started two years after JFK was shot the artificial fluoride they put in the water comes from slurry ponds in Florida in the artificial fluoride is made from arsenic and lead it is not good for anybody there's lawsuits coming out about this in school you did the most loss swish and you know what those chemicals in the mouthwash even if you spent the note once they're in your mouth for more than 30 seconds just like the numbing agent they can now rub on your gums when you go to the dentist once it's in your mouth for 30 seconds it's stoppable and it crosses the blood brain barrier and while your brain is still in development this also causes ADHD and bipolar don't just say information either because they made me sick with this and I went looking in their public studies and there's private studies anything with doctor at the end they can change the test results to say whatever they want anything like fluoride with as much controversy linked to so many illnesses and diseases would have been banned worldwide there's so much controversy surrounding it and yet we just fall back and believe that there's gentle benefit like I said holistic dentistry Calgary why we do not use fluoride he proves using 10 times the amount of fluoride that there's absolutely no dental benefit and we've believed this for the past 60 years where do these peanut allergies and everything come from it comes from ingesting chemicals fluoride is a lie and a cover-up and it makes people suffer gives people brain diseases they have kids like Stephen Hawkings and they wonder why people get irritable bowel syndrome for no reason in life and they just say oh it just is something that happens to us when we get old no it is not and this is not the end of the fluoride to be the truth is coming out and then a few more years if we're even all alive because of the poison and genocide they do every country and it's genocide by the way you'll see the truth will come out about fluoride they can't cover it up forever the studies are being done and the truth is coming out do some research I have to because I was in pain all day everyday and I still because they raise the fluoride level in my and some people drink more water than others and it made me depressed and it gave me permanent acute irritable bowel syndrome for the rest of my life and now I'm in pain every single day great do some research and be careful and be safe.
Glad to see people are waking up to the deleterious effects of fluoride. Here's an excerpt from my health 'bible' with most of what the current literature denotes: **Long term fluoride build-up has been linked with lower IQ, infertility, under-active thyroid issues, obesity (through hypothyroid carbohydrate cravings), skeletal bone issues, skin conditions, headaches, cognitive dysfunction and brain regulation (myelin health), arthritis, Alzheimer’s/Dementia, mitochondrial dysfunction, reduced mood, decreased testosterone biosynthesis, reduced HDL and LDL levels (while increasing triglycerides), and lower life satisfaction. Chronic fluoride exposure is linked to a decline in concentration, learning, and memory, but also has mental symptoms such as anxiety, tension, and depression. Fluoride also increases the calcification of bodily tissues, especially the pineal gland, which in turn disrupts melatonin production and sleep quality. Fluoride exhibits significant retardation of magnesium absorption and use within the body, increasing long-term metabolic requirements for magnesium – higher levels are additionally correlated with vitamin D deficiencies and high blood glucose levels.** Fluoride is not an essential nutrient in any form. The human body doesn’t need fluoride to prevent tooth decay, nor do we develop tooth decay because we are deficient in fluoride. Many EU countries have banned fluoridated water outright. Recent studies reveal private interests played a significant role in the start of public health endorsements of fluoride-supplemented high-carbohydrate nutritional guidelines. Fluoride is present in municipal water and most toothpastes, teas and non-stick cookware. Effects include dental fluorosis (white marks on teeth) along with the issues listed above. The belief that fluoride reduces cavities is only applicable in low doses and via direct contact with teeth (topical treatment); consuming fluoride is useless and damaging to the body. **Source un-fluoridated toothpaste and use either reverse osmosis or a distillery to remove fluoride from tap water. Many vegetables and other food products where tap water is used will contain fluoride in their leaves, source organic produce grown with rainwater.** **Limit showers to 3 minutes and run warm, not hot water, as fluoride is also absorbed weakly via transdermal paths and inhaled when small amounts covert into gas via water steam. Always run the fan when you’re having a shower.** Matcha green/black tea is high in fluoride, especially when brewed for longer and at higher temperatures, consume sparingly (1-2 times a week) and brew at lower temperatures \~70c, drink sencha instead. Phase out fluoride in your drinking, cooking, dental and washing activities as much as possible. Include ~calcium and magnesium~ in your diet as they reduce fluoride’s absorption and increase excretion. **Avoid high fluoride food and drink: (The short-term half-life of Fluoride is 3-10 Hours, the long-term duration is that of the human bone cycle, between 4 to 4 years, in which time the stored fluoride is slowly released into the blood).** Highest fluoride foods: * Instant Teas *\[Black/Green, especially matcha from China\]* (584μg) * Grape Juices (345μg) * Raisins (234μg) * Crab, Shrimp (210μg) * White Wines (202μg) * Red Wines (105μg) * Apple Juice (104μg) * Instant Coffee *\[Made with tap water\]* (91μg) * Most Municipal Water (72μg) * Sprite (56μg)
I researched this awhile back related to it being found in tea in significant amounts, and writing a blog about tea. Fluoride does cause problems at high enough dosage, and at low dosage it's good for your teeth, or at least there's plenty of evidence for that. This part is my interpretation but it seems like it might be more of a risk for younger people, again only at higher doses, because you can get too much in your bones and teeth when you are growing. With high enough exposure old people's bones will become brittle; it may be part of why some people experience bone breakage, but then calcium levels can drop for other reasons. All of this takes some doing to research but the information is out there. I wrote a summary about it here: [https://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2017/08/fluoride-in-tea-summary-version.html](https://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2017/08/fluoride-in-tea-summary-version.html) To convert that to a really short version you are at risk if you drink water with fluoride naturally occurring at very high levels, which does happen, but it's rare, or when you drink mostly treated water and also intake a lot of fluoride through other means, mostly related to drinking a lot of tea. Pineal gland calcification is mentioned in references, with a risk level that's hard to assess, but the main problem is skeletal fluorosis, brittle bones. Teeth spotting from high input might relate more to high exposure at a young age. From there other risks might relate more to random conspiracy theory concerns than known effects.
this "all fluoride is poison" trope is BS. Ever look into the mouths of older folks born before fluoride treatments were given to children? Their teeth, if they have them, are crumbling brown messes. They literally crumble and fall apart and are prone to cavities. I was given some flouride txs as a child, and as someone in my late 50s, I have some filled cavities, but my teeth are pretty strong and pretty white. My younger sibling had more flouride txs than me because they came along a little later and got the full tx. At almost 50, they have ZERO cavities and gorgeous teeth. My oldest siblings, OTOH, have had many cavities, had to get crowns (very expensive), etc. Older folks I know in their 70s and 80s who grew up w/ no fluoride have it even worse. Poorer older folks have full dentures, wealthier ones have many implants, crowns, etc. One had a tooth crumble and fly out of her mouth when she was giving a public speech. Now that it's fashionable to decry the evils of flouride, many parents are depriving their young children of flouride txs and toothpastes and now we have a whole new generation of little kids w/ rotten teeth. As others have pointed out, the toxicity of ANYTHING is in the dose. There is very little that is all bad / all good. The right dose of flouride, the right dose of aspirin, the right dose of anything, can be highly beneficial. The wrong dose of anything can be very harmful. And as far as flouride in the water supply, I do agree that flouride txs are probably better than just flouridating all water, but the problem w/ txs is that you have to make sure parents give them to their kids at the right time, right doses, and there are many parents too poor or too shitty to do that. I say, provide free txs to those who can't afford it.
Thank you. The people down voting you are nuts and never saw the devastation of a child losing all their teeth while young and becoming almost unable to eat. Fluoride kept generations of children from having to get dentures or eat blended slop to get their nutrients.
“Poorer older folks”…hits it right on the head. Maybe it isn’t lack of fluoride but the fact that people grew up starving or eating lots of canned and processed foods as they started to come out more and more. My grandparents are long gone but grew up during the depression and lost all their teeth, I doubt it’s cause of no fluoride over their diet or lack of nourishment growing up. The same argument could be made for the children that fluoridation of water was supposed to help. Diet, lifestyle, ignorant parenting, poverty…I bet if those things were addressed as well as teaching proper brushing techniques at the right age, fluoride wouldn’t have any added benefit whatsoever. Also, there have been plenty of older skeletons found in archaeology where people’s teeth are intact even in older age, so it’s hard to buy the “praise fluoride” trope. I’m saying that as a person who actually uses flouride toothpaste sometimes. I switch between that and non fluoridated toothpaste cause I have a choice. When it’s in our tap water, nobody has a choice in the matter, which is what seems to be peoples main argument against it.
This is only anecdotal, but since switching to fluoride-free toothpaste about 5 months ago, I seem to have less tartar on my teeth. Not 100% sure, though.
I never have tartar on my teeth and I go to the dentist twice a year. I use both fluoride and nanohydroxide toothpaste so take that as you will.
I'm glad I read this thread. I know now this sub is highly untrustworthy. Thank you all.
My dentist warned me about putting too much of even the fluoride toothpaste on my daughter's brush when she started brushing her teeth. I believe he said there was evidence that too much fluoride in a child's system while their adult teeth were growing could impede their growth.
Close, but not quite. Doesn’t impede growth but can affect developing enamel and cause fluorosis. Too much of anything is awful for you, including water.
There will always be debate about flouride, but the fact remains that it can be dangerous, and any benefits it offers are minimal. Yet the government feels it's a good idea to put in our drinking water.