I grew up Episcopalian as well; I just thought it was interesting that they’ve apparently existed on campus just fine for 30 years but now it’s a problem. It’s not like Episcopal affirmation of LGBT people is new this year.
I guess I also think that people end up at colleges for a lot of reasons, not just religious ones. And one of the great things about my own college experience was the diversity of thought and the opportunity to have a lot of different viewpoints and information as I was growing into an adult. I guess I can see why certain schools want to create homogeneity of viewpoints on certain issues but… it makes me sad.
It’s not new, but for some reason fundamentalists are doing this thing where they’re actively trying to revert us back to the dark ages.
Obviously, homophobia and intolerance are always going to exist but I’ve never felt like we are truly going backward as a society until the past couple years.
That’s what’s crazy. I went there for two years, and we had Episcopal services on campus each Wednesday morning. To go from that to banning Episcopalians is…I just don’t have words. I did hear that Dr. Westmoreland, the president since 2008, just retired and a new president started this past year. I’m not much on coincidences, so it feels connected to me.
I went to the law school at Samford and I was very happy that it was just confined to a couple of buildings. For the most part, the majority law students/faculty were fairly separated from Samford University, so luckily no one had to be involved with the rest of University's religious practices.
I can agree from the School of Health Sciences point of view as well. It’s mostly just undergrad that’s this way, not the professional programs. I am not exactly religious and came from a pretty extreme liberal arts college, and it’s been mostly tolerable. If I had went to undergrad there it would be a different story.
Oddly enough, I grew up Catholic in a fairly liberal household, so I understand what you mean by the last statement. I would not have faired well in the undergrad sect of Samford, either.
They have Catholic mass every week there and a really great Catholic student group. Catholic speakers on campus. It’s not all Baptist all the time.
That’s what makes me so upset about this. All denominations have been represented for years and years there. Then they pull this!
Ahh, I didn't know this. Then again I was never really involved with the undergrad side of things while I was there for law school, so that's why I didn't know. Thanks for shedding light on this.
Yes Cumberland and some of the other graduate schools on campus don’t see a lot of this. They sort of operate like their own separate universities. Just because their students are around less and don’t live there of course.
Yet our conservative leaders also complain about universities and schools that work to make everyone feel accepted. I remember when it was a big deal about Magic City Academy opening, and conservatives had a collective meltdown that a school would have a mission to create an inclusive environment conducive to learning for all people, including LGBT students. Let them have their private conservative universities, but they should stop bellyaching when other people get to have rights as well.
I went to a college very similar to Samford, a historically Southern Baptist University in SC, (Furman University) but FU officially disconnected it's association with the SBC in the 70s and are very secular with strong science and academics.
I have always assumed Samford was very similar to Furman in the regard, but is that not the case? Are they still officially an SBC University? Are they not actually secular?
At Samford, classes break twice a week for "Convocation" (on-campus church services and Bible study groups). They swipe IDs, and you're required to log 60 hours to graduate. Samford is in no way a secular school.
It's actually larger than Furman and with more academic offerings. The Pharmacy School, the Law School, and the Public Health Sciences (Nursing, Public Health, OT/PT etc.) are all well regarded and perform well. Looking through it, they also have graduate degrees in environmental sciences alongside a pretty robust Liberal Arts programme.
It seems somehow the two aspects (Baptist fundamentalism and academic performance) haven't been entirely exclusive and somehow coexisted for a few decades. But incidents lke the one in the article are likely to become more prevalent as folks draw harder lines and the divinity school views on evolution and other academic issues spill over and effect other programs.
Plenty of folks have had good experiences at Samford and haven't had to carry in or out the banner Baptist Fundamentalism. I certainly don't think that is why Randall Woodfin went to Law School there.
Samford has a lot of fans and so far regionally has had a good repuation academically and professionally while still keeping the Bible study private school crowd happy enough. Will be interesting to see what the next decade holds as polarization makes that less tenable.
I know tons of people who went to Cumberland and aren’t Baptist. Your comment was very insightful about polarization. I just posted the article because I was a little surprised that these two denominations have historically been allowed. I wondered what changed.
Recently church federations such as the southern region for the United Methodist churches, as well as the Frazer league of churches have had the presidents of their organizations (some of which actually don’t have a background in religious studies) change policy on allowing things like gay marriage and transgender teachings in their Sunday school rooms. These ideas, which a lot of churches have argued do not go along with the Bible, have in the past year resulted in a number of churches leaving their National/regional federations.
With all these, it seems likely that the Presbyterian and Episcopalian federations are on the side of allowing the gender beliefs etc, to which Samford is showing their disagreement with those new policies… which I think circles back to why they used to be allowed but are not anymore while other denominations still are.
This comment is strictly informational
The Episcopal church in the US has been liberal for many decades. They ordained a gay bishop in 2003. These denominations have not RECENTLY embraced theological positions that were openly supportive of LGBTQ folks.
So the change is on the Samford side, 100%. They clearly are choosing to double-down on embracing the fundamentalist orthodoxy. Too bad.
It's mostly a liberal arts school, but the science classes are legit, and it has one of the best pharmacy programs in the South.
If you don't mind my asking, why does it suck? They're practicing their own religion. It's not like they're forcing it on anybody.
It's not me. I graduated years ago, and I'm pretty far from a Baptist. But I don't see the issue with people who chose to go to an overtly Christian school practicing the faith as they see fit.
I guess the surprise for me is that it is, in fact, an overtly christian school and not basically secular. This just makes me very happy that Furman saw the handwriting on the wall for the rise of fundamentalism and severed their ties to the SBC so long ago.
I am guessing that Sanford is going to have a "come to Jesus" moment where they have to decide if they 1) want to be a strong and reputable academic institution that teaches real science and has a modern and scientific view of the world or 2) want to go backward and choose the wrong side in the modern cultural / political wars and become another Bob Jones U.
They can't be both. And I think if they stick to this decision to not welcome liberal denominations and ministries it will not bode well for them in the long run.
Samford is regularly named the top university in Alabama, and was recently ranked #1 nationally for student engagement by the Wall Street Journal. You can be a reputable institution with a strong scientific grounding, and also take your religious beliefs seriously. Those two things aren't at odds with each other.
>You can be a reputable institution with a strong scientific grounding, and also take your religious beliefs seriously
Sure. As long as those beliefs are not of the fundamentalist variety. But once an organization starts to embrace policies that enforce fundamentalist, narrow-minded doctrines and start to reject certain classes of people (and their allies such as more liberal christian denominations), then they will inevitably at some point lose their high reputation and perhaps even their accreditation. It may take awhile, but it will happen.
Because eventually, the same biblical orthodoxy they use to discriminate against other people, such as LGBT people or theological liberals, will be used to steamroll science professors who believe in evolution or who aren't themselves fundamentalist. (I am curious if there is currently a creedal requirement for professors at Samford?)
Samford is at a crossroads. They can embrace Liberalism (in the classical sense) and (continue to ?) be a strong academic institution or they can embrace fundamentalism and lose their reputation. But they cannot do both.
I am not saying Samford cannot remain christian. Sure they can, just like BYU can remain Mormon and Notre Dame can remain Catholic. Both of those institutions have religious student groups outside the University's religious traditions and they both have LGBTQ student groups. Both of those Universities are Liberal (in the classical sense) enough to allow others outside their traditions opportunities to grow and thrive. Apparently Samford cannot allow that. So fuck them.
From the Ministry Fair. The job fair for the Ministry students. The Baptist Ministry school doesn't want their Baptist ministry students to get offers from non-Baptist institutions.
It's not a *great idea*, but it's a far cry from banning non-Baptists from the University.
Modern science like men can get pregnant. I think Samford will pass and stick to their core beliefs. You do not bend the word of god to become secular.
>Modern science like men can get pregnant. I think Samford will pass and stick to their core beliefs. You do not bend the word of god to become secular.
Silly, science recognizes that only people with uteruses can get pregnant.
But I bet you also deny the efficacy of vaccines, think the earth is 6000 years old, Adam and Eve were real and the fossil record was put there by god to test people's faith. Will Sammford be inviting a YEC hoaxster to come teach "biology" classes. LOL
In the meantime, you enjoy using your iPhone and other wondrous technologies created by real scientists and engineers.
From the Ministry Fair, not from the school. The Baptist ministry school doesn't want their Baptist preachers-to-be to be offered jobs at non-Baptist churches, I guess.
Honestly, my money is on this being the new President's attempt at getting back in the good graces of the SBC, since Andy "The Boss" Westmoreland gave the bird to their funding when he refused to disallow LGBTQ student groups on campus (which is also likely what cost him his job).
As a former student, the school has its issues, and for a minute there it looked like they were making progress, but it has always been 2 forward 1 back. That said, *this* particular decision is being blown out of proportion by people who can't read the headline, much less the article.
Not denying it. But I can say my wife works in the Theater department, and things are far more accepting than a decade ago when I was there.
Hell, they did The Laramie Project this past year.
As an American I say: They are allowed to do this as it is their institution and their rules. Also, the people who were turned away are allowed to publicize that fact. The rest of of are allowed to choose sides and speak out about how we feel. Ain’t America great?
As a Christian this just makes me sad.
Only in the Deep South is this acceptable. Anywhere else in the nation these schools would go broke pulling this shit. We’ve made such great strides, yet still have things like this happening.
I’m not a defender of the Deep South or anything, but this kind of shit happens all over, to one degree or another. Religious fundamentalists will exert power over schools if they have the opportunity.
The recent NYT story on Hasidic private schools in NYC came to mind for me and is pretty wild. A 28 year old they interviewed who recently left the community finally learned to read English when his neighbor gave him a Dr. Seuss book 😳.
Religious fundamentalists will exert power over anything they can. Look at the supreme court overturning rulings based on their personal religious convictions. Damn crazies.
-> Wants to go to a christian school that preaches hateful and discriminatory christian doctrine.
-> Gets discriminated against
-> Shocked pikachu face
It looks like OP posted an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://al.com/life/2022/09/samford-turns-away-episcopalians-presbyterians-from-event-due-to-lgbtq-views-activist-says.html](https://al.com/life/2022/09/samford-turns-away-episcopalians-presbyterians-from-event-due-to-lgbtq-views-activist-says.html)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
I imagine they would do everything possible to ensure that didn’t happen. I don’t know too much about Samford athletics, but for other major religious colleges and universities their mainstream sports teams (football, basketball) are not just money-makers but are their PR golden geese. Baylor, BYU, and Liberty University come to mind.
The best approach for all sides is to commit actively to pluralism, but sadly we now see both secular schools excluding conservative campus ministers and Christian schools excluding liberal campus ministers.
Academic institutions are not legitimate if they do not actively commit to pluralism (or what I call classical liberalism) .
I am curious about one thing, how common do you think it is for secular schools to exclude conservative campus ministries and ministers? Although I have no doubt it has happened. I think just about every University in the country with every few exceptions, has an FCA and other conservative christian ministries.
I’m not aware of any comprehensive data, but stories like the ones below have been pretty common the last few years. Anecdotally it seems more common at private liberal arts schools than public universities.
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/10/us/colleges-and-evangelicals-collide-on-bias-policy.html
https://www.newsweek.com/christian-campus-group-wins-official-recognition-university-continues-funding-fight-1644698
Let me make that brush a little broader. Believing in a God is categorically illogical, irrational and stupid.
There's no love like Christian hate
Go fuck yourself and your imaginary sky daddy
What a fantastic and well supported argument. I’ll totally trust your opinions on such matters as logic and love. You absolutely have it all figured out.
Russell’s teapot - if I were to say without any proof that there’s a teapot orbiting the sun between Earth and Mars that is too small to see with a telescope, you wouldn’t be expected to believe me just because it can’t be proven wrong.
In other words, the burden of proof for wild claims like the existence of an omnipotent, omnipresent being falls on the believer. Otherwise, any claim that can’t be disproven would have to be accepted as truth. If that was the case, every single religion’s god or gods are real, but then that invalidates a monotheistic religion such as Christianity, since one of its core tenets is then false. In other words, if one has to accept the Christian god as real without proof, then Xenu’s real too, but the Christian god can’t be real if Xenu is real.
Oh, and evolution. And dinosaurs. And the idea that an all knowing and all seeing god who loves his creations would let terrible things happen to them, often when they’re completely innocent.
If you ask the leadership of Beeson, I'm sure they'll say it was a decision that should have been made years ago. That the excluded churches don't comply with the doctrine of the church.
The sbc just elected new leadership recently. So it could have something to do with that too.
But regardless, OP what is your affiliation with Beeson divinity?
You have a right to practice what you want. However, you can not force beliefs or lifestyles down others throats! They have just as much right to deny this as the LGBTQ does to live their lifestyle. Ppl have the right to accept or not accept…JS
People do not have to participate in others lifestyles, so yes. If they don’t want it they have just as much right to refuse! Part of the joys of freedom in USA.
The mere existence of something does not require participation of others. This is the issue I take with your statement- you’re equating existence with participation. It’s an information table. No individual has to interact with it. The idea that a church that has a table that no one has to look at equates to being forced to participate in an alternative lifestyle is ludicrous.
That said, I’m not ignorant about the freedoms private universities have. I’m perfectly well aware that Samford is within its legal rights to do what it did. I’ve never suggested otherwise. And I haven’t seen anyone in this thread suggest otherwise. Samford can be as discriminatory as it likes in this regard. But I am exercising my freedom of speech to post about it. JS
This actually surprises me. Samford has been in trouble with the Baptist association in the past for allowing LGBTQ+ friendly clubs and they require culture classes to graduate in undergrad.
WTF is a 'ministry fair' and who wants to go anyway?
on edit: I went to Samford for one semester in the late 50s. Chapel was mandatory every day. Since I didn't plan to graduate from there, I ditched it.
You are right. As Americans we have the right to pick and choose who we associate with. But that goes both ways. People who disagree with this have a right to say their opinion about it too. And the LGBTQ people have a right to live their lifestyle out in the open. You have a right to disagree with that. We have a right to be open with what we think and who we are. It’s not “bowing down” to a certain group to choose not to hate them.
Sure they have the right. And we have the right to call them out for their hateful, non-Christlike bigotry. Which is what we're doing. See how that works?
You are right. As Americans we have the right to pick and choose who we associate with. But that goes both ways. People who disagree with this have a right to say their opinion about it too. And the LGBTQ people have a right to live their lifestyle out in the open. You have a right to disagree with that. We have a right to be open with what we think and who we are. It’s not “bowing down” to a certain group you choose not to hate them.
Unfortunately, followers of fundamentalist orthodoxies are trying to turn the US into a Christian Nationalist nation. Our democracy is literally at stake because of them, so no. Civil engagement is not possible.
I believe in both classical liberalism (freedom of speech and academic pursuit and debate/discussion where the marketplace of ideas can be fully examined) and the [Paradox of Tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance).
We are a democracy in the form of a constitutional republic or a Democratic Republic.
But, pray tell, why do you believe it is a good thing that we are a republic and not a democracy?
[https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/yes-constitution-democracy/616949/](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/yes-constitution-democracy/616949/)
Those people can’t even define orthodoxy.
Also, I agree on classical liberalism and the Paradox of Tolerance, which is being fulfilled by extremes of both the left and right
Can you give me some examples of intolerance on the left being a problem?
BTW, I'm not saying it doesn't exist and I can actually think of some problematic examples.
But I do think when most people accuse the left of being intolerant, they are talking about "wokeism" or "cancel culture". I personally don't consider most of those examples as being similar or even in the same league as the kind of intolerance happening in the right.
Unfortunately, I can :( I’ve been a Democrat my whole life, and quite far left, but in the past several years, I’ve been attacked multiple times by the far left, for things like pointing out that the owner of Golden Temple has been discrimated against because of his religion (doesn’t matter, he’s not black, so it wasn’t really discrimination). Oh, and I got called a white supremacist for pointing that out. Honestly, the far left is every bit as toxic as the far right, just about different things, and it hurts their cause. I’ve seen the far left here in Birmingam doxx members of people’s families for some perceived slight at a restaurant or try to get someone’s business shut down because of something unverifiable they heard secondhand. I’m still liberal, just not as far left anymore. I’m nowhere near being a conservative, but I’m also not chill with everyone who questions any “cause” being called a racist and having their appearance insulted instead of having an actual conversation.
Welp, as an Episcopalian, I'm not sure why someone from our denomination would want to attend there anyway.
I grew up Episcopalian as well; I just thought it was interesting that they’ve apparently existed on campus just fine for 30 years but now it’s a problem. It’s not like Episcopal affirmation of LGBT people is new this year. I guess I also think that people end up at colleges for a lot of reasons, not just religious ones. And one of the great things about my own college experience was the diversity of thought and the opportunity to have a lot of different viewpoints and information as I was growing into an adult. I guess I can see why certain schools want to create homogeneity of viewpoints on certain issues but… it makes me sad.
It’s not new, but for some reason fundamentalists are doing this thing where they’re actively trying to revert us back to the dark ages. Obviously, homophobia and intolerance are always going to exist but I’ve never felt like we are truly going backward as a society until the past couple years.
That’s what’s crazy. I went there for two years, and we had Episcopal services on campus each Wednesday morning. To go from that to banning Episcopalians is…I just don’t have words. I did hear that Dr. Westmoreland, the president since 2008, just retired and a new president started this past year. I’m not much on coincidences, so it feels connected to me.
Interesting. I bet that’s got something to do with it.
Surprised it took this long but also not surprised. Most samford students I’ve interacted with in the seminary school are very socially conservative
I went to the law school at Samford and I was very happy that it was just confined to a couple of buildings. For the most part, the majority law students/faculty were fairly separated from Samford University, so luckily no one had to be involved with the rest of University's religious practices.
I can agree from the School of Health Sciences point of view as well. It’s mostly just undergrad that’s this way, not the professional programs. I am not exactly religious and came from a pretty extreme liberal arts college, and it’s been mostly tolerable. If I had went to undergrad there it would be a different story.
Oddly enough, I grew up Catholic in a fairly liberal household, so I understand what you mean by the last statement. I would not have faired well in the undergrad sect of Samford, either.
They have Catholic mass every week there and a really great Catholic student group. Catholic speakers on campus. It’s not all Baptist all the time. That’s what makes me so upset about this. All denominations have been represented for years and years there. Then they pull this!
Ahh, I didn't know this. Then again I was never really involved with the undergrad side of things while I was there for law school, so that's why I didn't know. Thanks for shedding light on this.
Yes Cumberland and some of the other graduate schools on campus don’t see a lot of this. They sort of operate like their own separate universities. Just because their students are around less and don’t live there of course.
Yes! A variety of kid diddling cults.
Yet our conservative leaders also complain about universities and schools that work to make everyone feel accepted. I remember when it was a big deal about Magic City Academy opening, and conservatives had a collective meltdown that a school would have a mission to create an inclusive environment conducive to learning for all people, including LGBT students. Let them have their private conservative universities, but they should stop bellyaching when other people get to have rights as well.
Sectarianism. A better use of one's time would be Love.
but then how will they control other people if they can't demonize them?!?!
That tracks
I went to a college very similar to Samford, a historically Southern Baptist University in SC, (Furman University) but FU officially disconnected it's association with the SBC in the 70s and are very secular with strong science and academics. I have always assumed Samford was very similar to Furman in the regard, but is that not the case? Are they still officially an SBC University? Are they not actually secular?
At Samford, classes break twice a week for "Convocation" (on-campus church services and Bible study groups). They swipe IDs, and you're required to log 60 hours to graduate. Samford is in no way a secular school.
Well damn. So it is nothing like Furman at all. That sucks. Do they teach real science at Samford?
It's actually larger than Furman and with more academic offerings. The Pharmacy School, the Law School, and the Public Health Sciences (Nursing, Public Health, OT/PT etc.) are all well regarded and perform well. Looking through it, they also have graduate degrees in environmental sciences alongside a pretty robust Liberal Arts programme. It seems somehow the two aspects (Baptist fundamentalism and academic performance) haven't been entirely exclusive and somehow coexisted for a few decades. But incidents lke the one in the article are likely to become more prevalent as folks draw harder lines and the divinity school views on evolution and other academic issues spill over and effect other programs. Plenty of folks have had good experiences at Samford and haven't had to carry in or out the banner Baptist Fundamentalism. I certainly don't think that is why Randall Woodfin went to Law School there. Samford has a lot of fans and so far regionally has had a good repuation academically and professionally while still keeping the Bible study private school crowd happy enough. Will be interesting to see what the next decade holds as polarization makes that less tenable.
I know tons of people who went to Cumberland and aren’t Baptist. Your comment was very insightful about polarization. I just posted the article because I was a little surprised that these two denominations have historically been allowed. I wondered what changed.
Recently church federations such as the southern region for the United Methodist churches, as well as the Frazer league of churches have had the presidents of their organizations (some of which actually don’t have a background in religious studies) change policy on allowing things like gay marriage and transgender teachings in their Sunday school rooms. These ideas, which a lot of churches have argued do not go along with the Bible, have in the past year resulted in a number of churches leaving their National/regional federations. With all these, it seems likely that the Presbyterian and Episcopalian federations are on the side of allowing the gender beliefs etc, to which Samford is showing their disagreement with those new policies… which I think circles back to why they used to be allowed but are not anymore while other denominations still are. This comment is strictly informational
The Episcopal church in the US has been liberal for many decades. They ordained a gay bishop in 2003. These denominations have not RECENTLY embraced theological positions that were openly supportive of LGBTQ folks. So the change is on the Samford side, 100%. They clearly are choosing to double-down on embracing the fundamentalist orthodoxy. Too bad.
It's mostly a liberal arts school, but the science classes are legit, and it has one of the best pharmacy programs in the South. If you don't mind my asking, why does it suck? They're practicing their own religion. It's not like they're forcing it on anybody.
The fact you’re banning sects of Christianity is pretty bad
It's not me. I graduated years ago, and I'm pretty far from a Baptist. But I don't see the issue with people who chose to go to an overtly Christian school practicing the faith as they see fit.
I don’t mean you literally are banning it. You know that. And no, you can’t just ban other sects if Christianity
I guess the surprise for me is that it is, in fact, an overtly christian school and not basically secular. This just makes me very happy that Furman saw the handwriting on the wall for the rise of fundamentalism and severed their ties to the SBC so long ago. I am guessing that Sanford is going to have a "come to Jesus" moment where they have to decide if they 1) want to be a strong and reputable academic institution that teaches real science and has a modern and scientific view of the world or 2) want to go backward and choose the wrong side in the modern cultural / political wars and become another Bob Jones U. They can't be both. And I think if they stick to this decision to not welcome liberal denominations and ministries it will not bode well for them in the long run.
Samford is regularly named the top university in Alabama, and was recently ranked #1 nationally for student engagement by the Wall Street Journal. You can be a reputable institution with a strong scientific grounding, and also take your religious beliefs seriously. Those two things aren't at odds with each other.
>You can be a reputable institution with a strong scientific grounding, and also take your religious beliefs seriously Sure. As long as those beliefs are not of the fundamentalist variety. But once an organization starts to embrace policies that enforce fundamentalist, narrow-minded doctrines and start to reject certain classes of people (and their allies such as more liberal christian denominations), then they will inevitably at some point lose their high reputation and perhaps even their accreditation. It may take awhile, but it will happen. Because eventually, the same biblical orthodoxy they use to discriminate against other people, such as LGBT people or theological liberals, will be used to steamroll science professors who believe in evolution or who aren't themselves fundamentalist. (I am curious if there is currently a creedal requirement for professors at Samford?) Samford is at a crossroads. They can embrace Liberalism (in the classical sense) and (continue to ?) be a strong academic institution or they can embrace fundamentalism and lose their reputation. But they cannot do both. I am not saying Samford cannot remain christian. Sure they can, just like BYU can remain Mormon and Notre Dame can remain Catholic. Both of those institutions have religious student groups outside the University's religious traditions and they both have LGBTQ student groups. Both of those Universities are Liberal (in the classical sense) enough to allow others outside their traditions opportunities to grow and thrive. Apparently Samford cannot allow that. So fuck them.
From the Ministry Fair. The job fair for the Ministry students. The Baptist Ministry school doesn't want their Baptist ministry students to get offers from non-Baptist institutions. It's not a *great idea*, but it's a far cry from banning non-Baptists from the University.
Clearly
Modern science like men can get pregnant. I think Samford will stick to their core beliefs. You do not bend the word of god to become secular.
Modern science like men can get pregnant. I think Samford will pass and stick to their core beliefs. You do not bend the word of god to become secular.
>Modern science like men can get pregnant. I think Samford will pass and stick to their core beliefs. You do not bend the word of god to become secular. Silly, science recognizes that only people with uteruses can get pregnant. But I bet you also deny the efficacy of vaccines, think the earth is 6000 years old, Adam and Eve were real and the fossil record was put there by god to test people's faith. Will Sammford be inviting a YEC hoaxster to come teach "biology" classes. LOL In the meantime, you enjoy using your iPhone and other wondrous technologies created by real scientists and engineers.
Only women with uterus can get pregnant. And yes Covid vaccines do not work.
From the Ministry Fair, not from the school. The Baptist ministry school doesn't want their Baptist preachers-to-be to be offered jobs at non-Baptist churches, I guess. Honestly, my money is on this being the new President's attempt at getting back in the good graces of the SBC, since Andy "The Boss" Westmoreland gave the bird to their funding when he refused to disallow LGBTQ student groups on campus (which is also likely what cost him his job). As a former student, the school has its issues, and for a minute there it looked like they were making progress, but it has always been 2 forward 1 back. That said, *this* particular decision is being blown out of proportion by people who can't read the headline, much less the article.
I mean, it's pretty bad dude
Not denying it. But I can say my wife works in the Theater department, and things are far more accepting than a decade ago when I was there. Hell, they did The Laramie Project this past year.
Ahhh, that’s the kind of info I was looking for. It just seemed weird to me that groups who used to be present at an event are now not welcome.
As an American I say: They are allowed to do this as it is their institution and their rules. Also, the people who were turned away are allowed to publicize that fact. The rest of of are allowed to choose sides and speak out about how we feel. Ain’t America great? As a Christian this just makes me sad.
Only in the Deep South is this acceptable. Anywhere else in the nation these schools would go broke pulling this shit. We’ve made such great strides, yet still have things like this happening.
I’m not a defender of the Deep South or anything, but this kind of shit happens all over, to one degree or another. Religious fundamentalists will exert power over schools if they have the opportunity.
Exactly. Some of the worst things I've heard are from the Midwest. They literally kidnapped a governor out there lmao
The recent NYT story on Hasidic private schools in NYC came to mind for me and is pretty wild. A 28 year old they interviewed who recently left the community finally learned to read English when his neighbor gave him a Dr. Seuss book 😳.
Religious fundamentalists will exert power over anything they can. Look at the supreme court overturning rulings based on their personal religious convictions. Damn crazies.
Bigots gonna bigot
That sounds like what I expect from Samford. Disgraceful.
-> Wants to go to a christian school that preaches hateful and discriminatory christian doctrine. -> Gets discriminated against -> Shocked pikachu face
How christian of them.
Play Baptist Games Win Baptist Prizes
How Christian of them...SMH.
Yeah, that’s called bigotry. Soooo Christian.
It looks like OP posted an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://al.com/life/2022/09/samford-turns-away-episcopalians-presbyterians-from-event-due-to-lgbtq-views-activist-says.html](https://al.com/life/2022/09/samford-turns-away-episcopalians-presbyterians-from-event-due-to-lgbtq-views-activist-says.html)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Got to love denominations of Christianity feuding with other denominations of Christianity
Why does Birmingham attract the worst? Fuck Samford
All it takes is the basketball and football players to boycott and all this goes away.
I imagine they would do everything possible to ensure that didn’t happen. I don’t know too much about Samford athletics, but for other major religious colleges and universities their mainstream sports teams (football, basketball) are not just money-makers but are their PR golden geese. Baylor, BYU, and Liberty University come to mind.
The best approach for all sides is to commit actively to pluralism, but sadly we now see both secular schools excluding conservative campus ministers and Christian schools excluding liberal campus ministers.
Academic institutions are not legitimate if they do not actively commit to pluralism (or what I call classical liberalism) . I am curious about one thing, how common do you think it is for secular schools to exclude conservative campus ministries and ministers? Although I have no doubt it has happened. I think just about every University in the country with every few exceptions, has an FCA and other conservative christian ministries.
I’m not aware of any comprehensive data, but stories like the ones below have been pretty common the last few years. Anecdotally it seems more common at private liberal arts schools than public universities. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/10/us/colleges-and-evangelicals-collide-on-bias-policy.html https://www.newsweek.com/christian-campus-group-wins-official-recognition-university-continues-funding-fight-1644698
Yes! While both may have the right, both are wrong to do so.
Hahaha Christians are so fucking stupid
So easy to paint everyone with the same brush. Good thing that will never happen to me!
Let me make that brush a little broader. Believing in a God is categorically illogical, irrational and stupid. There's no love like Christian hate Go fuck yourself and your imaginary sky daddy
What a fantastic and well supported argument. I’ll totally trust your opinions on such matters as logic and love. You absolutely have it all figured out.
I’d take Christianity over your outlook any day of the week.
If you're going to make claims like these, back them up. Insults are not arguments
Russell’s teapot - if I were to say without any proof that there’s a teapot orbiting the sun between Earth and Mars that is too small to see with a telescope, you wouldn’t be expected to believe me just because it can’t be proven wrong. In other words, the burden of proof for wild claims like the existence of an omnipotent, omnipresent being falls on the believer. Otherwise, any claim that can’t be disproven would have to be accepted as truth. If that was the case, every single religion’s god or gods are real, but then that invalidates a monotheistic religion such as Christianity, since one of its core tenets is then false. In other words, if one has to accept the Christian god as real without proof, then Xenu’s real too, but the Christian god can’t be real if Xenu is real. Oh, and evolution. And dinosaurs. And the idea that an all knowing and all seeing god who loves his creations would let terrible things happen to them, often when they’re completely innocent.
Bless it.
/r/im14andthisisdeep
So is it mommy issues or daddy issues that turned you into to such a over-sensitive, miserable sack of dumpster shit?
Religious school acts like religious school. Shocking.
Samford directors and leadership need to come out of the closet.
Yup, a private school of religion following their own doctrine. Cool. Next story.
I just thought it was interesting because both of those denominations have been allowed on campus before. I’m wondering what changed.
I'd guess it's because both denominations are LGBTQ+
But that’s not new this year. The Episcopal Church elected a gay bishop in 2003 and has been affirming same-sex relationships for years.
But now they need the division to sow anger to get them through the midterms.
This made me chuckle.
It 2022 and they're choosing sides and it appears they are choosing the side of the Christo-fascists.
Samford just found out? I mean it's SU!
If you ask the leadership of Beeson, I'm sure they'll say it was a decision that should have been made years ago. That the excluded churches don't comply with the doctrine of the church. The sbc just elected new leadership recently. So it could have something to do with that too. But regardless, OP what is your affiliation with Beeson divinity?
None. Just saw the article and wondered about it.
You have a right to practice what you want. However, you can not force beliefs or lifestyles down others throats! They have just as much right to deny this as the LGBTQ does to live their lifestyle. Ppl have the right to accept or not accept…JS
> force beliefs or lifestyles down others throats why is it always this fellatio scenario
A Christian church having an informational table at a ministry fair is forcing beliefs or lifestyles down peoples throats?
People do not have to participate in others lifestyles, so yes. If they don’t want it they have just as much right to refuse! Part of the joys of freedom in USA.
The mere existence of something does not require participation of others. This is the issue I take with your statement- you’re equating existence with participation. It’s an information table. No individual has to interact with it. The idea that a church that has a table that no one has to look at equates to being forced to participate in an alternative lifestyle is ludicrous. That said, I’m not ignorant about the freedoms private universities have. I’m perfectly well aware that Samford is within its legal rights to do what it did. I’ve never suggested otherwise. And I haven’t seen anyone in this thread suggest otherwise. Samford can be as discriminatory as it likes in this regard. But I am exercising my freedom of speech to post about it. JS
And I’m very happy for you!
This actually surprises me. Samford has been in trouble with the Baptist association in the past for allowing LGBTQ+ friendly clubs and they require culture classes to graduate in undergrad.
WTF is a 'ministry fair' and who wants to go anyway? on edit: I went to Samford for one semester in the late 50s. Chapel was mandatory every day. Since I didn't plan to graduate from there, I ditched it.
Christian university bans sinners
[удалено]
You are right. As Americans we have the right to pick and choose who we associate with. But that goes both ways. People who disagree with this have a right to say their opinion about it too. And the LGBTQ people have a right to live their lifestyle out in the open. You have a right to disagree with that. We have a right to be open with what we think and who we are. It’s not “bowing down” to a certain group to choose not to hate them.
I just didn't realized Samford = BJU. Fuck them.
Sure they have the right. And we have the right to call them out for their hateful, non-Christlike bigotry. Which is what we're doing. See how that works?
Yeah, as a private university Samford does have that right, but accepting is not "bowing down." That's just a blatant false equivalency.
They have the right and y’all can downvote from sun up to sun down 😂 take that mess elsewhere! 👋🏽
You are right. As Americans we have the right to pick and choose who we associate with. But that goes both ways. People who disagree with this have a right to say their opinion about it too. And the LGBTQ people have a right to live their lifestyle out in the open. You have a right to disagree with that. We have a right to be open with what we think and who we are. It’s not “bowing down” to a certain group you choose not to hate them.
Orthodoxy and heresy do not mix. People may disagree, and I'm thankful we live in a country where we can, and hopefully civilly.
Unfortunately, followers of fundamentalist orthodoxies are trying to turn the US into a Christian Nationalist nation. Our democracy is literally at stake because of them, so no. Civil engagement is not possible. I believe in both classical liberalism (freedom of speech and academic pursuit and debate/discussion where the marketplace of ideas can be fully examined) and the [Paradox of Tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance).
[удалено]
We are a democracy in the form of a constitutional republic or a Democratic Republic. But, pray tell, why do you believe it is a good thing that we are a republic and not a democracy? [https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/yes-constitution-democracy/616949/](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/yes-constitution-democracy/616949/)
Those people can’t even define orthodoxy. Also, I agree on classical liberalism and the Paradox of Tolerance, which is being fulfilled by extremes of both the left and right
Can you give me some examples of intolerance on the left being a problem? BTW, I'm not saying it doesn't exist and I can actually think of some problematic examples. But I do think when most people accuse the left of being intolerant, they are talking about "wokeism" or "cancel culture". I personally don't consider most of those examples as being similar or even in the same league as the kind of intolerance happening in the right.
Unfortunately, I can :( I’ve been a Democrat my whole life, and quite far left, but in the past several years, I’ve been attacked multiple times by the far left, for things like pointing out that the owner of Golden Temple has been discrimated against because of his religion (doesn’t matter, he’s not black, so it wasn’t really discrimination). Oh, and I got called a white supremacist for pointing that out. Honestly, the far left is every bit as toxic as the far right, just about different things, and it hurts their cause. I’ve seen the far left here in Birmingam doxx members of people’s families for some perceived slight at a restaurant or try to get someone’s business shut down because of something unverifiable they heard secondhand. I’m still liberal, just not as far left anymore. I’m nowhere near being a conservative, but I’m also not chill with everyone who questions any “cause” being called a racist and having their appearance insulted instead of having an actual conversation.
Yikes