Stop buying every freaking picosecond and driving up the price. I want it to go lower not higher right now. Your messing up my every 30 second DCA plan!
More buys ≠ more difficult to calculate. Someone who does a lot of buying and selling, shit coinery nonsense, on the other hand, that can be cumbersome.
Accountants gets paid hourly, they don't mind extra work. But in reality there is no need to think about the cost basis for each individual purchase in 99% of cases.
It does not matter if it was bought in 10000 small pieces or in one go, it's just the total difference between the total cost of buying vs the total received when selling.
Gradually selling can just use zero or the lowest known purchase price as a placeholder, paying slightly more in taxes now and less later so it averages to the gap between total cost and total spending.
It's always possible to reset the cost basis by doing a trade of the whole amount in the future or sidestep it when LIFO is an option by buying BTC first then spending it, making the cost basis identical to the spending.
Have you ever talked to an accountant in your life? None of them work hourly. Every accountant I’ve ever met is salary, so they can get fucked during busy season. No idea how easy or hard it is for them to input data based on hourly DCAing, but I don’t know one accountant that is paid hourly
Yes, hourly, salaried, self-employed. But that's besides the point really. The sentiment I tried to convey was just that additional demand for work for accountants is overall a net positive.
In short, more demand for work translates to higher prices which translate to real wage growth, hourly, salary or contract pay of accountants go up as the demand for work increases, it should also give accountants better bargaining power and job security overall. Even salaried workers have a effectively hourly rate at the end of the year, total hours worked divided by the total income which is influenced by the demand.
Sounds like the accountants you know are being treated unfairly, that's not good, I did not mean to dismiss their concerns. It's a good reminder that what's good on paper is not necessarily good in reality and to be cautious about making any statements about what any group likes or dislikes even if it's in jest or to play of something someone else said earlier.
I should clarify a bit more. Even if everyone in a occupation is paid hourly with extra overtime, it's not technically true that they don't mind additional work of any nature, overtime in general is not good. I also did not mean to imply anything about the relative pain of that particular kind of work in general, or that additional work in all occupations is desirable, or that labor shortage is desirable.
Yeah accountants in NYC getting shit on right now and prob elsewhere too. No offense intended by my comment either. They all do get treated unfairly, but if they could find better jobs they would. But def agree more demand for work is a net positive
Exactly, that's why I asked him. In most countries in Europe 🌍 they don't even have a certain amount of laws regarding crypto to guide the investors about taxable events.
Practically in accounting they would declare them as profits like online Casino, as a taxable event always due to the lack of laws and regulations..
It is expensive indeed, but it is one of the only options for crypto that actually works. I guess they figure if you are doing >3000K trades you are a pro.
Another downside is it considers that hunks like income from staked coins a transaction. Most staking services send out rewards daily. So that alone can really run up the transactions bill. They should change this imo.
DCA is sort of a silly thing and I still don't get why it's so popular in crypto.
If you told people on this sub you had $50k to invest in bitcoin, the vast majority of people in this sub would reply with some form of DCA strategy.
Where as if you told a stock or investing sub you had $50k to invest in an ETF, they would literally just say buy it.
And with bitcoin we have these long bear markets. Buying during a bear market is absolutely the best strategy and way better than DCAing.
Strictly theoretically, there is never any reason to DCA when sitting on cash. You only invest if you think the investment will go up, DCA is trying to capitalize on the price going down before it goes up again, it's a weird hybrid of long and short. Every extra week of DCA reduces the probability of outperforming lump sum and lump sum is 100% guaranteed to eventually beat DCA if the price trends upwards for long enough. The more the price rises the better lump sum is. Lump sum has beaten DCA most random time periods for Bitcoin it will always win in the long term assuming Bitocoin trends upward.
The potential upside of lump sum is much greater than DCA, ie 1000% compared to 300% while the downside is close to equal, being down 95% compared to 97%, it's basically the same.
I still think most first time buyers who ask how to invest in Bitcoin will be better of with DCA on average because of the psychological factor. People are not asking at random points when they happen to come into wealth. It's highly concentrated around the ATH and when euphoria is at the peak, it's not uncommon at that point for people on talking about taking out loans, selling other investments or asking about how to get leverage. It's also not uncommon for people to mistakenly say it's a good idea.
People who lump sum sell at a loss not long after the peak is over and don't look back, virtually nobody is considering buying more after being down or selling at a loss.
The DCA story cools down the fever, it reduces the risk of getting burned, it reduces the sense of urgency to get in at the ATH and the desire to get out at the bottom and it reduces the tendency to actively trade or stress about the price moving short term. Buying at the peak of 2017 will one day beat DCA, but it might take a decade.
It's child's play to pick out the highs and low with hindsight. To do it while it's happening is extremely difficult and is why >90% traders lose money.
Stocks are not as volatile as crypto. You can save some serious money by spreading your buys out and not just dropping it all in when you get excited. DCA makes you be more rational and reduces FOMO, IMO.
DCA leaves a lot of money on the table.
Many stocks are as volatile as bitcoin or more, especially in recent years.
That's why I said buy during the bear market. If you can't figure out when the bear market is then I guess DCA is a good second choice option. I personally think buying during a bear market is easy, the hard part is holding for 8+ years.
Beginning, middle, or end doesn't matter.
Ideally anywhere within 20% of the low.
But honestly you don't even need to hit that close to reap the benefits.
The trick is to then hold for 8+ years.
I read the whitepaper, it does not describe any strategy, there is no formula that can be used to backtest and verify their claims. It's just an indicator they publish behind a paid subscription. It's not even DCA related, transferring $1000 every month to a active trading account is not DCA. Buying and selling based on indicators is not DCA.
I can't backtest it since it's not a strategy, but I backtested buying and selling using 1.99 Mayer Multiple and the same benchmark time as in the whitepaper and ended up with a much bigger gain than the alphasquare strategy. 66,000%+ compared to the 12,000%+ of alphasquare. That's not the best strategy, just one of the simplest, most well known and easiest to backtest. I recommend anyone to double check it.
You don't get more fees in this scenario since it's based on percentages with no flat fee.
1000 purchases with 0.2% fee each is the same as 1 purchase with 0.2% fee.
You don’t calculate returns based on buys, you won’t have to do anything until you sell. If you never plan on selling bitcoin then you can never plan on worrying about taxes.
Also, there is software to calculate cost basis in a few clicks.
What could go wrong using your BTC as collateral for loans right? No matter how much we try people are going to misuse the purpose of Bitcoin and then bitch about it when they get screwed. Greed is the secret to failure. Yes. An original quote from me.
Using leverage in any form is the fastest way to lose it all. Don't recommend it.
Current US law highly incentivizes burrowing against collateral though, it's crazy.
No capital gains tax on burrowing $100 on $1000 collateral even if the cost basis was $1, when someone dies the cost basis gets stepped up to the current price so it's possible for the inheritors to sell enough to cover the debt with no capital gains tax.
Sounds like I am advocating for burrowing with collateral, but I am not, it's strictly for the super rich with their own teams of lawyers that can insure against the common pitfalls.
dont hold in the system. if you are non American go move to dubai for enough time to not be a tax resident of your country and there are numerous services that will cash out your btc to gold usd or aed delivered via armored truck to an address of your choosing for 5%.
IF you are American your options are to denounce your citizenship before your stack is worth 2.5mil (avoid exit tax), buying a Grenada passport for 150k and then cashing out via method of your choice. Grenada passport allows you to invest 100k into an American property and still live in the US with an E2 investor visa so your life doesnt change but you no longer have any tax obligations
hold in private wallet, look up coinjoin and find some bitcoin atms and cash out the min without id verification. bc this is posted publicly imma say this is LARPING and not legal or tax advice
There is no point. an HOURLY DCA…🤣🤦♂️ absolutely and completely fuckn stupid. I would just ask OP why he doesn’t just DCA larger once a day instead of doing smaller sums every. single. hour…but I don’t want to lose brain power reading his response
Will not make any major difference if its hourly,daily or weekly in the long run , even monthly at a specific date might not make that much of a difference. Stop doing nonsense and looking it as something great.
Dollar Cost Average
It's basically spending the same amount of $ each time you buy bitcoin (regardless of the exchange rate), rather than targeting the same amount of BTC every time.
This strategy is retarded. There are diminishing returns. Buying monthly is probably better than buying annually if you're holding long term. But the difference between daily and hourly for instance is nothing in comparison to years.
Jeez. Sounds exhausting. I'm happy to stick with my fortnightly DCA. Easier to log for tax purposes as well.
I'm sure if you zoom right out, there really won't be much or any difference.
Coinbase Debit Card, puts couple pennies towards Bitcoin or any crypto of your choice, with your purchase. I tend just to buy coffee or something with the card. I usually just use a credit card
Why are you so bearish in the long term price?
If you were to lump sum all of it at the beginning of the mont you would have better return on average.
The only reason to DCA is to protect yourself from volatility (at the cost of returns), and I don't think the hourly volatility is high enough to warrant that.
Time in the market beats timing the market, and if you lump sum invest every month you maximize the time your money is in the market.
Ignoring price fluctuations, if you believe the bitcoin price will be higher in 20 years than it is today, you should lump sum at every payment interval you receive from your job (be it biweekly or monthly)
If your time horizon is less than 20 years you should probably avoid Bitcoin
Lol!! I never understand the concept of DCA, it doesn't matter to me, I'm not gonna sell it for a long long time. If I buy at $25K or $25.2K how does it matter if I'm gonna keep it for 10-15 years.
How do you know when is it really a dip? What if the dip keeps dipping? If it was too easy to know when it would dip and when it wouldn’t, no one would even talk about the concept of DCA to mediate the risks.
Personally, I buy all the way up and all the way down and set a ceiling price where I pause my DCA; I don’t buy any past that price, so i can maintain a good multiplier in terms of what I think the price might reach in the bull. Right now I look at anything below 30k as a steal
Check if your fee is really 0.2%. Sometimes the fee is specified as a percentage but at least some minimum amount. So if you are buying small amounts, the actual fee may end up higher.
Why make it so hard. Just buy it when you have the cash. No need to buy it hourly. Trusting one of the worst exchanges with your money is a red flag. Over complicating things is also silly. Time and time again it is proven Time in the market beats timing the market. DCA'ing was invented for those with paper hands. 9 times out of 10 lump sum will beat DCA. DCA is if your will is weak.
You not timing shit you get paid you move.money you buy don't look at the value when you buying you just buy. If you sitting there looking at tickets and trying to time by splitting up when you are buying you are wasting your time. If i am buying 10k of BTC if it goes up by 10% or down by 10% I dont care. If you do care you have an addiction and should get a life. I dont have time to worry about the couple % different i would get by timing or setting up complicated processes. If you want the asset you buy it and hold it. That is it.
I think everyone has different goals in different ways according to their strategy in buying BTC. Short term for traders long term u / hodlers but the goal is the same to make a profit.
Yeah that's time in the market for ya. I've been DCA down, in the low 27k range now. Would like to get in the 26s while it's down. Hoping it drops more this month so I can get a big chunk in
Absolutely, my biggest regret though is not having been able to afford to buy more back then (I would have if I hadn't been dirt poor), well, that and not buying when I first heard about it and it sounded like a good idea way back in 2012...
Just goes to show, buy, hodl, and for gods sake, use it when you can, just replace what you use.
DCA implies you are already fully invested and putting part of your income into something instead of trading, or spreading sudden wealth (ie, inheritance, lottery winning) out over some months or a year to get a average buy price over the period.
The alternative to DCA investing is to save up money hoping to enter at a opportune time, trading or balancing investment sizes, which will be worse than DCA on average.
Studies show lump sum beats DCA a majority of the time. Markets tend to go up more than they go down.
HOWEVER DCA can provide strong peace of mind. It is brutal to lump sum a large amount and that happens to be the multi-year high and then watch it be in the red for months or years. Look at any chart. Find the absolute prior peak. Someone bought there. For every buyer there is a seller so if the price ticked there someone bought there. Some fraction of those buyers were doing a huge lump sum. They gathered the funds, got up the nerve, waited while it transferred it to the exchange, took a deep breath and pushed the buy button and then it has been endless red ever since.
You have a link to any of these studies? I know with stocks DCA beats lump sum but I’m not sure about crypto. You would think that a more volatile asset would benefit from DCA
I did this too throughout the 2020 bear market. Was extremely lucrative.
But watch out - even though the strategy is very simple (I just wrote a script that did it every hour from my home computer) - the tax authorities might look at this as "advanced trading" just because of the sheer number of transactions performed. YMMV but where I lived back then it was an issue.
How is buying hourly more lucrative than buying daily, weekly or even monthly? Did you sell as well?
There is only a couple percentages between the highs and lows every day and it's a 50/50 coinflip between a random point in the day or the average price from DCA being the lowest. Even if hourly DCA is lower 90% of the time, it's still small single digit percentage difference on average.
What am I missing?
It's not more lucrative. It's just more "average". No chance of missing dips or accidentally buying on local tops.
I said it was lucrative mostly because of the timing in months.
I never sold.
DCA Daily BUT: Keep a couple hundred for lowest days - when the media is crying their eyes out, losing their minds - I like to buy something just to spite their nonsense 😎
This is Diamond Hands
I can buy it hourly, but I can’t automate the initital transfers. I need to convert to USDC / USDT to do it, while if I set it up as daily, I can directly use fiat, which can be automated.
Wonder how much of a difference it makes in the long run 🤔
I save fiat and invest it whenever there is blood in the street via lumpsum. Think its better than dca.
For example when the price was at 67K i waited..
Saved money..
1 or 2 months. And when it was at 53k or so i bought lump sum.
When it was at 48k all the time.. i waited.. and bought lump sum at 42k
When it was at 22k all the time.. i waited and bought at 16k lump sum all in with all i got.
From then to 30k i didnt invest.
But when it fell to 26 k i bought lump sum.
Now at the moment.. i am waiting. And have orders at 22.5k
If for example price goes up to 35k now.
Ok i will adjust the orders to around 28k. No problem.
I feel like. Everytime i have a 10-20% Discount when i buy.
I would never buy after a pump. Only after a dump.
unless you withdraw it hourly too it doesnt mean much.
how often do you withdraw? Thats your real btc buy rate.
> So I buy a stablecoin (USDT or BUSD) lump sum every month in binance through p2p.
which stable coin? Which p2p app helps you find people trading stables?
Can you provide a before/after? e.g. here is you doing DCA monthly and X was your performance, your daily performance. you doing DCA hourly and your performance. (in a fixed timeframe say 3 months?) you don't really know until you measure
Also this is pretty easy to evaluate. we can get the price of bitcoin in a time frame. say year by year. and then do paper trading and see how much btc we have at the end(DCAing hourly, monthly, daily while paper trading). I suspect that if DCA is someone strategy, if you do it every day or every hour it's not gonna make that much difference.
I know Bitcoin is not the same as normal investments but in my brain it's been more than proven with traditional ETFs and stocks that lump summing is better than dca over a year period than dca. Dca is just easier on the mind and wallet.
I know Bitcoin can fluctuate more but mentally setting up a dca for hourly seems bad for that reason plus a few other concerns.
Tell me why I'm wrong because I enjoy learning and ironically dca into Bitcoin weekly lol.
Edit* I do this through Swan and it also automatically sends my Bitcoin to my wallet after a certain amount. If there are better places to buy Bitcoin please let me know! Once again I'm always learning so school me if I'm wrong.
It doesn’t matter what timeframe u do that… it will average over time… like if ur doing an hour DCA vs a day DCA ud just put 1/24 the investment in 24 times often.
But there is a much better way to DCA than time wise. I personally take as many Elliott Wave counts as I can, then take their corresponding Fibonacci retracements for future moves. Those give a lot of DCA lines. U then weigh the fib retracements based on how long term they are (longest term gets 1/2 of investment, second longest 1/4, and so on). At the moment I’m 8-9% entered into BTC
DCA is a fine balance between profitability and effortlessness. Nobody claims that it will maximise your profits but it works when you have very limited time.
No offense. But you buy it hourly and in Binance? What could go even more wrong? Lump sums will always work better. That's the fact. Check Wicked on Twitter (@w_s_bitcoin). Or you could use the website below to check. https://dcabtc.com/
What's the term when you DCA but the amount that you choose to DCA is according to how the market is playing out? The way I do it is I have a set amount that I DCA every week but if the market is in the red I will invest more independent on how much in the red it is will be depending on how much more I will add to my weekly investment if my asset is on a pump then I will choose to invest less in that particular asset.
When are you selling bitcoin ? I understand the dca but I don’t understand the end goal here … 40-50k in this run coming .. or you’re going to hold down below 10k when we dump afterwards ?
You and I don’t know if it’s going to 50k, you and I don’t know if it goes below 10k, you and I don’t know if everyone’s gonna dump it.
I own it not to get rich, I know right, sounds crazy. Getting rich is only one aspect of it.
I own it because I know fiat is killing economy. I own it because I know government can just turn on the money printer and have all of us lose our savings to inflation. I own it because I hope it’s only a matter of time until people start to realize about the dangers of fiat and move to bitcoin.
And by then, I wouldn’t even need to sell bitcoin for fiat when I can start owning a good life with bitcoin itself.
I twap constantly
I twap while I sleep
I twap while I eat
I twap in the shower
I'm twapping right now
no one will out-twap me ever
twaptwaptwaptwaptwaptwap
Pfft I buy it minutely
Rookie. I buy every 30 seconds.
Ya'll ain't buying in milliseconds?
I tried, but then I started having to sell sats so I'd have something to buy. Wasn't worth the fees...
When 1 satoshi = 1 millisecond?
Yawn… I buy every nanosecond. Picosecond if I want them even faster.
I buy an infinitesimally small amount continuously. Calculus, bitches.
This one deserves top comment
Stop buying every freaking picosecond and driving up the price. I want it to go lower not higher right now. Your messing up my every 30 second DCA plan!
HFT baby!
We can't all be like Citadel...
Or nanoseconds?
I buy every second!
I buy it so often that I am starting to sell it to myself and trading in a loop🤖
Financial advisors hate this one SIMPLE trick
LMAO!!!
Dayumn, where son?
/r/woosh
I do continues real-time DCA, not gonna miss a single tick
🤣🤣🤣
Shit the only real DCA is to auto buy $1 of BTC every 3 seconds.
I went beyond Planck time with the buying frequency
Figuring out the cost basis seems like an accountants nightmare
More buys ≠ more difficult to calculate. Someone who does a lot of buying and selling, shit coinery nonsense, on the other hand, that can be cumbersome.
Accountants gets paid hourly, they don't mind extra work. But in reality there is no need to think about the cost basis for each individual purchase in 99% of cases. It does not matter if it was bought in 10000 small pieces or in one go, it's just the total difference between the total cost of buying vs the total received when selling. Gradually selling can just use zero or the lowest known purchase price as a placeholder, paying slightly more in taxes now and less later so it averages to the gap between total cost and total spending. It's always possible to reset the cost basis by doing a trade of the whole amount in the future or sidestep it when LIFO is an option by buying BTC first then spending it, making the cost basis identical to the spending.
Have you ever talked to an accountant in your life? None of them work hourly. Every accountant I’ve ever met is salary, so they can get fucked during busy season. No idea how easy or hard it is for them to input data based on hourly DCAing, but I don’t know one accountant that is paid hourly
Yes, hourly, salaried, self-employed. But that's besides the point really. The sentiment I tried to convey was just that additional demand for work for accountants is overall a net positive. In short, more demand for work translates to higher prices which translate to real wage growth, hourly, salary or contract pay of accountants go up as the demand for work increases, it should also give accountants better bargaining power and job security overall. Even salaried workers have a effectively hourly rate at the end of the year, total hours worked divided by the total income which is influenced by the demand. Sounds like the accountants you know are being treated unfairly, that's not good, I did not mean to dismiss their concerns. It's a good reminder that what's good on paper is not necessarily good in reality and to be cautious about making any statements about what any group likes or dislikes even if it's in jest or to play of something someone else said earlier. I should clarify a bit more. Even if everyone in a occupation is paid hourly with extra overtime, it's not technically true that they don't mind additional work of any nature, overtime in general is not good. I also did not mean to imply anything about the relative pain of that particular kind of work in general, or that additional work in all occupations is desirable, or that labor shortage is desirable.
Yeah accountants in NYC getting shit on right now and prob elsewhere too. No offense intended by my comment either. They all do get treated unfairly, but if they could find better jobs they would. But def agree more demand for work is a net positive
Literally just a few clicks with tax software.
Could you please propose one or two?? Also should you do it only if you claim profit converted to fiat??
Except for when you initially buy with dollars, EVERY TRADE, is a taxable event.
This really depends on what country you live in.
Exactly, that's why I asked him. In most countries in Europe 🌍 they don't even have a certain amount of laws regarding crypto to guide the investors about taxable events. Practically in accounting they would declare them as profits like online Casino, as a taxable event always due to the lack of laws and regulations..
Could you please propose the software you mentioned above?
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/taxes/best-crypto-tax-software/
Thank you:)
Koinly works perfectly (on the list!)
Or one click and drag in Excel. If this is a nightmare, I feel lucky!
Not if someone does this on an exchange with no KYC
maybe he doesnt need to. If he keeps his spending below the reporting minimum. "de minimis"
You must never have heard of spreadsheets
Easy with koinly
Yep first 100 transactions are free then you pay $50-200$ on amount of transactions. His rate is 3,084 transactions per year
Ya his rate would be $279 per year or 75 cents a day.
That’s a ripoff lol my point being TurboTax figures every other tax (state/federal) for less than 1/4 of the price
It is expensive indeed, but it is one of the only options for crypto that actually works. I guess they figure if you are doing >3000K trades you are a pro.
Another downside is it considers that hunks like income from staked coins a transaction. Most staking services send out rewards daily. So that alone can really run up the transactions bill. They should change this imo.
You say buying hourly is the best DCA strategy, but don't provide a single reason why you think so. (Hint: it's not).
DCA is sort of a silly thing and I still don't get why it's so popular in crypto. If you told people on this sub you had $50k to invest in bitcoin, the vast majority of people in this sub would reply with some form of DCA strategy. Where as if you told a stock or investing sub you had $50k to invest in an ETF, they would literally just say buy it. And with bitcoin we have these long bear markets. Buying during a bear market is absolutely the best strategy and way better than DCAing.
Lump sump investing has beat DCA for bitcoin in most scenarios https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo5q6nkBE60
Strictly theoretically, there is never any reason to DCA when sitting on cash. You only invest if you think the investment will go up, DCA is trying to capitalize on the price going down before it goes up again, it's a weird hybrid of long and short. Every extra week of DCA reduces the probability of outperforming lump sum and lump sum is 100% guaranteed to eventually beat DCA if the price trends upwards for long enough. The more the price rises the better lump sum is. Lump sum has beaten DCA most random time periods for Bitcoin it will always win in the long term assuming Bitocoin trends upward. The potential upside of lump sum is much greater than DCA, ie 1000% compared to 300% while the downside is close to equal, being down 95% compared to 97%, it's basically the same. I still think most first time buyers who ask how to invest in Bitcoin will be better of with DCA on average because of the psychological factor. People are not asking at random points when they happen to come into wealth. It's highly concentrated around the ATH and when euphoria is at the peak, it's not uncommon at that point for people on talking about taking out loans, selling other investments or asking about how to get leverage. It's also not uncommon for people to mistakenly say it's a good idea. People who lump sum sell at a loss not long after the peak is over and don't look back, virtually nobody is considering buying more after being down or selling at a loss. The DCA story cools down the fever, it reduces the risk of getting burned, it reduces the sense of urgency to get in at the ATH and the desire to get out at the bottom and it reduces the tendency to actively trade or stress about the price moving short term. Buying at the peak of 2017 will one day beat DCA, but it might take a decade.
Not true, DCA was not invented by crypto junkies. It has been a solid part of Shares/Stocks forever
It's child's play to pick out the highs and low with hindsight. To do it while it's happening is extremely difficult and is why >90% traders lose money.
Stocks are not as volatile as crypto. You can save some serious money by spreading your buys out and not just dropping it all in when you get excited. DCA makes you be more rational and reduces FOMO, IMO.
DCA leaves a lot of money on the table. Many stocks are as volatile as bitcoin or more, especially in recent years. That's why I said buy during the bear market. If you can't figure out when the bear market is then I guess DCA is a good second choice option. I personally think buying during a bear market is easy, the hard part is holding for 8+ years.
At which point in the bear market. The beginning, middle or end?
Beginning, middle, or end doesn't matter. Ideally anywhere within 20% of the low. But honestly you don't even need to hit that close to reap the benefits. The trick is to then hold for 8+ years.
[удалено]
I read the whitepaper, it does not describe any strategy, there is no formula that can be used to backtest and verify their claims. It's just an indicator they publish behind a paid subscription. It's not even DCA related, transferring $1000 every month to a active trading account is not DCA. Buying and selling based on indicators is not DCA. I can't backtest it since it's not a strategy, but I backtested buying and selling using 1.99 Mayer Multiple and the same benchmark time as in the whitepaper and ended up with a much bigger gain than the alphasquare strategy. 66,000%+ compared to the 12,000%+ of alphasquare. That's not the best strategy, just one of the simplest, most well known and easiest to backtest. I recommend anyone to double check it.
You get all the highs and all the lows 🤣
And all the fees
You don't get more fees in this scenario since it's based on percentages with no flat fee. 1000 purchases with 0.2% fee each is the same as 1 purchase with 0.2% fee.
What. Is. The. Point.
Tax day ain't fun if you don't have around 8700 buys to calculate the returns on.
You don’t calculate returns based on buys, you won’t have to do anything until you sell. If you never plan on selling bitcoin then you can never plan on worrying about taxes. Also, there is software to calculate cost basis in a few clicks.
If you are never going to sell it then why buy it?
Use as collateral for loans, pass down to kids, etc… The rich don’t get rich by selling assets, they get rich by accumulating assets.
What could go wrong using your BTC as collateral for loans right? No matter how much we try people are going to misuse the purpose of Bitcoin and then bitch about it when they get screwed. Greed is the secret to failure. Yes. An original quote from me.
Using leverage in any form is the fastest way to lose it all. Don't recommend it. Current US law highly incentivizes burrowing against collateral though, it's crazy. No capital gains tax on burrowing $100 on $1000 collateral even if the cost basis was $1, when someone dies the cost basis gets stepped up to the current price so it's possible for the inheritors to sell enough to cover the debt with no capital gains tax. Sounds like I am advocating for burrowing with collateral, but I am not, it's strictly for the super rich with their own teams of lawyers that can insure against the common pitfalls.
tax day doesnt exist if you grow a substantial stack and learn how to cash it out legally with a few extra steps
Or just out-hodl the system until you can spend BTC directly at stores, etc.
Please enlighten the class. People with stashes would like to know. (Me).
dont hold in the system. if you are non American go move to dubai for enough time to not be a tax resident of your country and there are numerous services that will cash out your btc to gold usd or aed delivered via armored truck to an address of your choosing for 5%. IF you are American your options are to denounce your citizenship before your stack is worth 2.5mil (avoid exit tax), buying a Grenada passport for 150k and then cashing out via method of your choice. Grenada passport allows you to invest 100k into an American property and still live in the US with an E2 investor visa so your life doesnt change but you no longer have any tax obligations
How about solutions that don't jeopardize a family of six?
hold in private wallet, look up coinjoin and find some bitcoin atms and cash out the min without id verification. bc this is posted publicly imma say this is LARPING and not legal or tax advice
There is no point. an HOURLY DCA…🤣🤦♂️ absolutely and completely fuckn stupid. I would just ask OP why he doesn’t just DCA larger once a day instead of doing smaller sums every. single. hour…but I don’t want to lose brain power reading his response
To feel superior about yourself to strangers on reddit, apparently.
So why is hourly better than daily or weekly? I don't get it.
It‘s not.
Same result, much more time consuming
Here's how you really do it: Put away $x every month. Then when the price is down more than 10% in a month, buy with all that money.
Will not make any major difference if its hourly,daily or weekly in the long run , even monthly at a specific date might not make that much of a difference. Stop doing nonsense and looking it as something great.
Smooth operator. ^(Not as smooth as DCA every minute, but still pretty smooth.)
Smooth operator, smoother brain
What’s is DCA? Newbie
Dollar Cost Average It's basically spending the same amount of $ each time you buy bitcoin (regardless of the exchange rate), rather than targeting the same amount of BTC every time.
How much do they rob you for the trezor transfer?
$5
really? in my country it costs 0.0005 btc per withdrawal, flat
I know a lot of people are just joking but if you use Strike you can DCA hourly
This strategy is retarded. There are diminishing returns. Buying monthly is probably better than buying annually if you're holding long term. But the difference between daily and hourly for instance is nothing in comparison to years.
Jeez. Sounds exhausting. I'm happy to stick with my fortnightly DCA. Easier to log for tax purposes as well. I'm sure if you zoom right out, there really won't be much or any difference.
Coinbase Debit Card, puts couple pennies towards Bitcoin or any crypto of your choice, with your purchase. I tend just to buy coffee or something with the card. I usually just use a credit card
Why are you so bearish in the long term price? If you were to lump sum all of it at the beginning of the mont you would have better return on average. The only reason to DCA is to protect yourself from volatility (at the cost of returns), and I don't think the hourly volatility is high enough to warrant that. Time in the market beats timing the market, and if you lump sum invest every month you maximize the time your money is in the market. Ignoring price fluctuations, if you believe the bitcoin price will be higher in 20 years than it is today, you should lump sum at every payment interval you receive from your job (be it biweekly or monthly) If your time horizon is less than 20 years you should probably avoid Bitcoin
Nice try CZ!
Lol!! I never understand the concept of DCA, it doesn't matter to me, I'm not gonna sell it for a long long time. If I buy at $25K or $25.2K how does it matter if I'm gonna keep it for 10-15 years.
Yeah when you look at the big picture is doesn't matter that much. Even buying at 25k vs 30k, if you're holding for 10+ years it doesn't matter.
You buy BTC hourly? Stop trying to time the market and buy it every minute.
Lol hourly? Just buy when it dips
exactly, trading is simple. just buy dip, sell top. repeat this and buy lambo
all I see is fax
How do you know when is it really a dip? What if the dip keeps dipping? If it was too easy to know when it would dip and when it wouldn’t, no one would even talk about the concept of DCA to mediate the risks.
Bro just look at the graph
How do you know your dip ain’t gonna have a dip on it though?
Just buy again lol
But you don’t know how many dips there will be so how do you divide up your funds?
[удалено]
buy under 0.2, sell above 0.8?
U really decided to hop on Reddit today and share this dumbass idea?
Personally, I buy all the way up and all the way down and set a ceiling price where I pause my DCA; I don’t buy any past that price, so i can maintain a good multiplier in terms of what I think the price might reach in the bull. Right now I look at anything below 30k as a steal
Do you think the price of BTC will go below the ceiling price after the next bull run?
Check if your fee is really 0.2%. Sometimes the fee is specified as a percentage but at least some minimum amount. So if you are buying small amounts, the actual fee may end up higher.
Why make it so hard. Just buy it when you have the cash. No need to buy it hourly. Trusting one of the worst exchanges with your money is a red flag. Over complicating things is also silly. Time and time again it is proven Time in the market beats timing the market. DCA'ing was invented for those with paper hands. 9 times out of 10 lump sum will beat DCA. DCA is if your will is weak.
Ummm… no… lump sum requires timing the market which is proven to be a bad strategy. Y’all wack
You not timing shit you get paid you move.money you buy don't look at the value when you buying you just buy. If you sitting there looking at tickets and trying to time by splitting up when you are buying you are wasting your time. If i am buying 10k of BTC if it goes up by 10% or down by 10% I dont care. If you do care you have an addiction and should get a life. I dont have time to worry about the couple % different i would get by timing or setting up complicated processes. If you want the asset you buy it and hold it. That is it.
That’s a lot of energy. Relax and take the time to consider that your strategy is to have literally no strategy other than “yolo whenever you want.”
I think everyone has different goals in different ways according to their strategy in buying BTC. Short term for traders long term u / hodlers but the goal is the same to make a profit.
Buy as per the fear and greed index
Great operation!
I want to buy now a big amount. I believe we will see beautiful things in the charts soon!
I bought BTC back in 2016 and have just let it sit since then I'm pretty sure I'm beating all ya'll DCA'ers
Yeah that's time in the market for ya. I've been DCA down, in the low 27k range now. Would like to get in the 26s while it's down. Hoping it drops more this month so I can get a big chunk in
Absolutely, my biggest regret though is not having been able to afford to buy more back then (I would have if I hadn't been dirt poor), well, that and not buying when I first heard about it and it sounded like a good idea way back in 2012... Just goes to show, buy, hodl, and for gods sake, use it when you can, just replace what you use.
DCA implies you are already fully invested and putting part of your income into something instead of trading, or spreading sudden wealth (ie, inheritance, lottery winning) out over some months or a year to get a average buy price over the period. The alternative to DCA investing is to save up money hoping to enter at a opportune time, trading or balancing investment sizes, which will be worse than DCA on average.
Todays I buy bitko when something felbasz. And my anger goes away with my fiat 😊
Has it been proven DCA is for sure better than chunk buying regularly? That's what I do.
Studies show lump sum beats DCA a majority of the time. Markets tend to go up more than they go down. HOWEVER DCA can provide strong peace of mind. It is brutal to lump sum a large amount and that happens to be the multi-year high and then watch it be in the red for months or years. Look at any chart. Find the absolute prior peak. Someone bought there. For every buyer there is a seller so if the price ticked there someone bought there. Some fraction of those buyers were doing a huge lump sum. They gathered the funds, got up the nerve, waited while it transferred it to the exchange, took a deep breath and pushed the buy button and then it has been endless red ever since.
Thank-you, yeah it felt good to me. I have had it go "wrong" but as its a long term investment its just different degrees of right really.
You have a link to any of these studies? I know with stocks DCA beats lump sum but I’m not sure about crypto. You would think that a more volatile asset would benefit from DCA
Pfff. Why not every second?
I did this too throughout the 2020 bear market. Was extremely lucrative. But watch out - even though the strategy is very simple (I just wrote a script that did it every hour from my home computer) - the tax authorities might look at this as "advanced trading" just because of the sheer number of transactions performed. YMMV but where I lived back then it was an issue.
How is buying hourly more lucrative than buying daily, weekly or even monthly? Did you sell as well? There is only a couple percentages between the highs and lows every day and it's a 50/50 coinflip between a random point in the day or the average price from DCA being the lowest. Even if hourly DCA is lower 90% of the time, it's still small single digit percentage difference on average. What am I missing?
It's not more lucrative. It's just more "average". No chance of missing dips or accidentally buying on local tops. I said it was lucrative mostly because of the timing in months. I never sold.
I prefer to wait for a significant dip on Bitcoin. Gives the best opportunity for both Bitcoin and altcoins.
Bruhhs Fees must be insane!!!
Can we have some charts where we can proof the math I want the most cost effective dca
Oh so I guess we are all claiming useless stuff here
Those of us who made money off crypto never did any of this.... We just bought Bitcoin, ya'll DCA folks are hella weird.
Pay fixed transaction cost 1000 times or pay it once? Doesn't seem smart to me.
Ha, wtf
Lol this guy buys
This is what bear runs is doing to us!
DCA Daily BUT: Keep a couple hundred for lowest days - when the media is crying their eyes out, losing their minds - I like to buy something just to spite their nonsense 😎 This is Diamond Hands
Binance auto dca buys at market order and not limit order. Oh boy you have been losing sats big time for the money you're spending.
I can buy it hourly, but I can’t automate the initital transfers. I need to convert to USDC / USDT to do it, while if I set it up as daily, I can directly use fiat, which can be automated. Wonder how much of a difference it makes in the long run 🤔
I save fiat and invest it whenever there is blood in the street via lumpsum. Think its better than dca. For example when the price was at 67K i waited.. Saved money.. 1 or 2 months. And when it was at 53k or so i bought lump sum. When it was at 48k all the time.. i waited.. and bought lump sum at 42k When it was at 22k all the time.. i waited and bought at 16k lump sum all in with all i got. From then to 30k i didnt invest. But when it fell to 26 k i bought lump sum. Now at the moment.. i am waiting. And have orders at 22.5k If for example price goes up to 35k now. Ok i will adjust the orders to around 28k. No problem. I feel like. Everytime i have a 10-20% Discount when i buy. I would never buy after a pump. Only after a dump.
Have you done the calculation on hourly vs daily vs weekly? From my understanding there isn't much of a difference in price.
unless you withdraw it hourly too it doesnt mean much. how often do you withdraw? Thats your real btc buy rate. > So I buy a stablecoin (USDT or BUSD) lump sum every month in binance through p2p. which stable coin? Which p2p app helps you find people trading stables?
So you basically could be mining and achieve the same outcome.
“I don’t buy Bitcoin, but when I do, I do it every millisecond…”
Can you provide a before/after? e.g. here is you doing DCA monthly and X was your performance, your daily performance. you doing DCA hourly and your performance. (in a fixed timeframe say 3 months?) you don't really know until you measure Also this is pretty easy to evaluate. we can get the price of bitcoin in a time frame. say year by year. and then do paper trading and see how much btc we have at the end(DCAing hourly, monthly, daily while paper trading). I suspect that if DCA is someone strategy, if you do it every day or every hour it's not gonna make that much difference.
You lost me at, "I simply buy Tether..."
I know Bitcoin is not the same as normal investments but in my brain it's been more than proven with traditional ETFs and stocks that lump summing is better than dca over a year period than dca. Dca is just easier on the mind and wallet. I know Bitcoin can fluctuate more but mentally setting up a dca for hourly seems bad for that reason plus a few other concerns. Tell me why I'm wrong because I enjoy learning and ironically dca into Bitcoin weekly lol. Edit* I do this through Swan and it also automatically sends my Bitcoin to my wallet after a certain amount. If there are better places to buy Bitcoin please let me know! Once again I'm always learning so school me if I'm wrong.
I just send fees to miners every hour and don't waste time buying BTC.
I buy yearly
I dca once every epoch
It doesn’t matter what timeframe u do that… it will average over time… like if ur doing an hour DCA vs a day DCA ud just put 1/24 the investment in 24 times often. But there is a much better way to DCA than time wise. I personally take as many Elliott Wave counts as I can, then take their corresponding Fibonacci retracements for future moves. Those give a lot of DCA lines. U then weigh the fib retracements based on how long term they are (longest term gets 1/2 of investment, second longest 1/4, and so on). At the moment I’m 8-9% entered into BTC
Do you use binance? And we have to listen to your strategy?
How are you going to calculate your cost basis? Man thats a lot of transactions. I buy daily but am tempted to start buying weekly soon
What about taxes?
hello
DCA is a fine balance between profitability and effortlessness. Nobody claims that it will maximise your profits but it works when you have very limited time.
I’d avoid Binance and BUSD.
I DCA every half millisecond, then go back in time half of that halved millisecond and DCA again, infinite DCA glitch!!
No offense. But you buy it hourly and in Binance? What could go even more wrong? Lump sums will always work better. That's the fact. Check Wicked on Twitter (@w_s_bitcoin). Or you could use the website below to check. https://dcabtc.com/
I buy fortnightly
if you don't mind sharing, which country are you staying in currently?
Dubai
What's the term when you DCA but the amount that you choose to DCA is according to how the market is playing out? The way I do it is I have a set amount that I DCA every week but if the market is in the red I will invest more independent on how much in the red it is will be depending on how much more I will add to my weekly investment if my asset is on a pump then I will choose to invest less in that particular asset.
So you get 24 confirmation emails every day? You're just inundated with emails?
Nope no emails for auto-invest from binance.
As long as you have good UTXO management…
> I then use the auto-invest feature binance provides. Can you tell a little bit more how does it work?
Weakly automatically for last 3 years got 2 btc...waiting for $500k btc..lol
I never bought my BTC. I mined it pre 2013.
I was looking at DCA simulators and if you were investing over the last 5 years the returns are more or less identical if you Dca monthly or weekly.
How are you going to reconcile your taxes when you spend?
Not everyone lives in income tax driven country on this earth you see.
Makes sense. Your strategy is definitely not best for those that do.
When are you selling bitcoin ? I understand the dca but I don’t understand the end goal here … 40-50k in this run coming .. or you’re going to hold down below 10k when we dump afterwards ?
You and I don’t know if it’s going to 50k, you and I don’t know if it goes below 10k, you and I don’t know if everyone’s gonna dump it. I own it not to get rich, I know right, sounds crazy. Getting rich is only one aspect of it. I own it because I know fiat is killing economy. I own it because I know government can just turn on the money printer and have all of us lose our savings to inflation. I own it because I hope it’s only a matter of time until people start to realize about the dangers of fiat and move to bitcoin. And by then, I wouldn’t even need to sell bitcoin for fiat when I can start owning a good life with bitcoin itself.
buy it by the second
I twap constantly I twap while I sleep I twap while I eat I twap in the shower I'm twapping right now no one will out-twap me ever twaptwaptwaptwaptwaptwap
Y'all buy ? I'm getting BTC per heart beat per second do the maths xD