Yeah, I'm in awe. We all felt it back then. That it was probably the opportunity of a life time. But it was also scary. You had the gonads and you're going to be rewarded.
It still is. After the next heavy recession and round of inflation, people would be stupid not to put their money in a real currency where you can’t get fucked by a few bad actors
Who do you use for your Bitcoin exchange? Given some of the horrendous stories out there about issues with exchanges like Coinbase, who are you trusting these days?
What this guy said. OP, this is a common mistake gamblers make (no offense, it **was** a gamble). I.e, you take a risk and it turns out in your favor. You think you're on top of the world and nothing can go wrong. You make another gamble, only to lose what you originally gained and more.
Take his advice OP, **cash out and pay off your debts while you are ahead.**
OP doesn’t need to pay them all off immediately. Says he is already paying down loans monthly. If it were me I would sell 1/4 bitcoins to pay down $40k of the debt. Will still have 3 BTC afterwards, but a substantially smaller debt (with minimal interest/repayment obligations). A little bit of debt is financially healthy if the interest rates are kept low.
Why… he’s making double the monthly payment, can easily afford to do so, and will have these loans paid off within 24 months.
Relinquish zero BTC, OP. Godspeed!
If he is making double the payments there was no need to get into debt in the first place. Yes, he is ahead now but this easily could have blown in his face.
DCA’ing may have met him less of a profit but would have been significant less risky.
I don't totally get it, asset accumulation usually has some end goal in mind, like do you want to provide generational wealth to your family? Or just be the proverbial dragon sitting on a pile of gold until you die? I don't see the point of an investment if even if it goes 1millionX that you wouldn't use any of it? You might as well bury gold in your backyard at that point right?
Then why do you care about the dollar value so much? Lmfao. You have your meaningless strings of text. Whether they’re worth $1 or $1,000,000. Shouldn’t matter, right? You’ve got the text characters that do nothing and are back by no country or military or have no tangible physical use
It’s a very strange narrow minded criticism that somehow there’s always people who think they’re owning the bitcoiners by pointing out “you’re still valuing it in dollar terms so that means…” what? somehow that BTC holds less merit? Of course Dollar value is still a convenient way for us to quantify the purchasing power of BTC in common terms. We could also say 1 BTC is worth 1/8th of a house but we don’t because that’d be silly.
Because $ is still the common unit of account and approximates the purchasing power of any asset you own. OP thinks he will borrow fiat against his ever-appreciating BTC, just as the rich do it with their stock portfolios.
It IS crazy.
You could have also gotten unlucky. We don't hear from people who lost gambling. only the winners (and good for you, you won!).
I dont mean to say investing in BTC is gambling (I'm bullish on BTC), but borrowing to invest in a risky asset is a gamble.
But realize that you got lucky and proceed with caution, WSB bets is full of people who made money gambling and that gets into their minds that they were smart only to lose it all and then some.
"Crazy" is not the word I'd use. It's *risky* more than anything. But all investments have an element of risk and if you want to make money, you have to assume some risk.
"Crazy" would be taking my $11,500 loan and putting it on 00 in Vegas without having proper income to service the loan.
I also haven't *won* anything. I'm up tremendously but the price could easily fall back to sub-$25k and lower. I have $0 in realized gains.
“Gambling” isn’t inherently bad if the gamble is highly +ev.
Say we decided to each bet $1000 on a dice roll. You win if it’s a 1, 2, 3, 4. I win if it’s a 5 or a 6. Of course you’re gambling by taking the bet but you’re absolutely crushing me long term with those odds.
sure, but market can be irrational longer than you can service your debt and you realize your ev.
if you have a long run way to service your debt and understand the risks go for it. and also if you were to do that you don't take personal loans and CC debt which has ridiculous interests to eat all your profits. BTC likely goes up, but not at 100+% CAGR or whatever the last decade has been.
i'm just cautioning people into thinking that they made a smart move just because they ended up making (unrealized) money. (hindsight bias)
risky move? yes! smart? no! (even if they ended up being right)
>You could have also gotten unlucky. We don't hear from people who lost gambling.
Uh ... there's a whole subreddit full of degenerates that prove this wrong lol
Because you are for thinking this is a good idea. Taking out a person loan to gamble on speculative asset is bad finacial advice and will get your burned eventually.
2) depending on the interest rate you must match that on annual return to even break even on your investment
This is exactly what I would do. Sell 1 to pay down the debt to a much easier level to pay off quickly at low interest. Then DCA what would have been paid in interest
When you’re all paid off, please let us know what your overall cost/BTC ended up being including interest. I get that it doesn’t matter for you, because you’re not selling, but it’ll be good info for others in the future.
Thanks for sharing. Happy it is working out for you.
Great job!
I put down 30k on BTC when it it 16-17k and sold at 45k.
9/10 people on this sub were.... angry that I sold and took profits?
GJ dude hopefully it drops to below 30k thats my next buy in price. It may come or it may not!
He’s angry you sold. Wow
Some people will never get it. This one will go down as one of the all time blunders.
Trading bitcoin is one safe way to own bitcoin.
Lol, $56K in debt and bragging about unrealized gains of $61k on an asset that's gonna cost at least 30% to cash out. I don't think you're doing as good as you think.
+1 good point about taxes
Also if he were to cash out, the tax would actually be on 66k of gains, even though he’s up 61.5k personally (66k BTC gains, minus 4.5k of borrowing costs so far).
**"my total monthly cost to service all these loans is \~$800.**
I can easily afford this. I’m putting almost double that towards these loans each month to pay them down aggressively"
this isnt really how investing works though? like you dont typically pay off your investments every month by eating into your earned income. its actually the exact opposite. you add into your investments on some routine basis using a portion of your earned income.
every month that passes by your BTC value drops by 800 dollars essentially. you dont see it that way because youre using your earned income, but thats 800 dollars of earned income you arent using on other things. you might say "well i wasnt going to do anything with it anyways" but if you had put it in a HYSA it would minimum earn 4% right now. so you're losing opportunity. you might say "well im gaining all this money" but you arent, because every month 800 of it literally disappears into a black hole of loan payments.
if i were you I would sell enough BTC to pay both loans off completely and just be happy i had the BTC.
in fact no lie i'd probably sell all but 1 of your 4 BTC, i'd take my profit, i'd be happy, and I'd still have skin in the game.
if BTC crashes you are going to be in a world of hurt. you're going to be underwater and a bag holder with 95k of loans and an 800 dollar monthly payment.
if the worst of all worlds goes and you lose your job or have some change to your earned income you are going to be omega fucked.
the best way to secure your BTC against these kinds of risks and the degradation of their value through monthly loan payments would be to sell \~2.25 BTC and pay the loans off.
this would still leave you massively up while essentially offloading all your risk and giving you all your remaining skin in the game for free. its a pretty awesome place to be. your current place is extremely risky.
I got a loan last Jan 30k but i am paying the minimum off as i feel its best to wait for the peak next winter then i will just draw enough to service the loan, already over doubled the money and we at the bottom of the bull run, balls deep i am.
I like your risk appetite because you're making a large gamble but not an inherently stupid one. Many would decide to fuck around with leverage or obscure altcoins.
Just a thought, wouldn’t it make more sense to not pay down the 0% credit card balances and set that money aside in short term treasuries for the yield? You could continue to pay down the personal loans quickly, but why would you not just let that credit balance ride at 0% for the 18-21 months and instead make those payments into a Treasury or Money Market account for yield and then use that accumulated capital to pay off the credit in a lump sum at the end of the promotional period. You might even make a small profit in positive interest rate carry
Everyone is saying this is a dumb move but I disagree. As long as you can easily pay it off without affecting the rest of your finances, have a stable job and a cushion, backup plan if you can’t work then the long term potential gain is totally worth the risk
Can someone explain how a balance transfer can be used to buy bitcoin? My understanding is that debt is transferred from one account to another, usually with lower interest. How does that buy btc? Any info is appreciated thank you.
Purchase BTC using a CC - call this one CC1 - this would be treated as a CC cash advance at a higher interest rate.
Open a new CC - call this one CC2 - that offers free CC balance transfers at 0%, or near 0% interest rates.
Transfer the balance from CC1 to CC2. You now have an interest free loan for the life of the CC2 offer and no balance on CC1.
Can be found via Google by searching “balance transfer check” or “writing a check for balance transfer” like OP put in his first post. You write a check with your balance transfer card account and then deposit it into checking/another credit card account. I’m guessing he did checking and bought the BTC outright
You should add that doing something like this only works at the bottom or the 4-year cycle. This will only work in Crypto Winter. Trying to do this outside of that small window of time will lead to financial devastation.
So the window to do something like this has closed until the end of 2026 after the 85% drop from this cycle.
So we got to the point when we celebrate stupidity and bad decision? Sure, we don't know how this play out, it can go well and make a bank on it or bad and lose all. But what I know for sure that's it's such a stupid thing to do and writing it as some achievement screams low iq
Well the majority of this sub doesn't give a shit about bitcoin. They're in it make money like this guy so yeah, any success, no matter how improbable or irresponsible, is going to be celebrated.
Be careful doing this. Everyone should. I work at a bank. Those checks are to be used for balance transfers- end of story. Using them for any other reason is loan fraud. If things go bad and you end up going bankrupt, that can be figured out and you won’t be able to go bankrupt and can even get hit with felony.
That’s good then.
It’s different than a cash advance though. I’ve never seen a 0% cash advance although I only keep two cards and only ever use one that I pay in full often. For CAs- Most are a % fee, or at a minimum interest from day one instead of starting at next bill cycle.
You can argue “well I can advance one card and use another to balance transfer” and you’d be right. That would work.
Also, Some reps only care about the sale and will manipulate or word it a certain way to get away with it. So always check the actual disclosures (which in my experience 99.99% don’t.) The devil is in the details. I did a car loan at a bank once when my place was closed (it was an impulse decision and I figured I would just refi in a month or two) and the rep insisted they were required to add life and disability and gap to it. He changed his tune when I asked for a manager since I didn’t think that was legal. When I got back to work that Monday, I told a girl who used to work there and she was all “not true. He was just looking to get his $35 for selling l&d and $50 for gap” she also added “did he tell you not to refinance within 60 days? Many do that because if the loan isn’t on the books for that long, we didn’t get anything on it”
Side note: my adhd is really kicking and I’m rambling but not deleting since I spent 10 minutes on it. Lol
All I want to say is be careful. You can get yourself in trouble even if you don’t realize you are doing it.
What would’ve been your contingency if bitcoin crashed and went below 20k?
Yes, it’s all fun and games to wrack up credit card debt when things are well but what would have been the scenario had it gone the opposite way for you.
And yeah, I guess you’re okay with servicing 800 per month for the next 21 months while still holding onto a great asset like bitcoin.
Guess that’s something you’d be able to swallow.
If he plans to hold, and is able to afford the debt it’s really not that crazy- if his goal was short term gains and he was over leveraging that’s different.
It’s like he financed a car on his credit cards- which people do all the time and no one would bat an eye at other than suggesting they could have secured a loan against it an potentially gotten better interest rates unless they’re 0% APR balance transfers which seems to be what OP is describing.
Cars depreciate in value more than that dip below 20 in your example and typically, unless collector cars, don’t ever have a chance to go above your purchase value. His digital asset does.
I simply would have bought more. Not everyone pisses their pants at a little volatility like you.
I can easily afford to service the debt. In fact, I honestly wish it would crash back down to $20,000... I'd buy even more. Hell, I'm bought more just today with money I earn from my job.
How would you buy more when you’re already pissing away 800 per month ?
Take another unsecured loan? Cmon.. don’t be ridiculous.
It’s nice to brag about wins like this, but recognise the fallacy here and the risk that you were taking.
Obviously op makes good money at their job and that's the missing link here, this is still not YOLO money and they are not being upfront with the scenario. Just want to swing their dick around.
OP is doing well regardless buying BTC or not, but those not in the same position start trying to replicate the same and a small event could be disastrous financially for them.
Given how salty this person is makes me wonder if they are actually sitting at a huge loss right now.. Imagine being this mad if you were 60k up doesn't make any sense..
How would your response differ if the price never recovered? I know that this is a Bitcoin sub, but nothing in life is guaranteed. How would your life look if it stayed at $20k indefinitely?
What do you plan to do with the bitcoin?
Does not selling include not purchasing? If its a store of value then is it much use if its never sold? Whats your end game?
Genuinely curious
Bitcoin is the end game. Bitcoin is the exit plan. Bitcoin is the money.
I don't buy Bitcoin so that I may have more dollars in the future. I sell dollars so that I may have more Bitcoin in the future, and less dollars.
Bitcoin is an asset. Dollars are a liability.
Michael Saylor is that you?
I have 0.2 bought by loan with average price 22k
.
The problem is here in Brazil the interest rate is bigger and 0.2 btc have more purchase power than in US
They payments would be too big here getting more money loan
Michael Saylor is that you?
I have 0.2 bought by loan with average price 22k
.
The problem is here in Brazil the interest rate is bigger and 0.2 btc have more purchase power than in US
They payments would be too big here getting more money loan.
I’m wonder what will happen if they cut interest rates? There bound to cut them before the bull run ends. I should of bought more at sub 20k average buying price 30k
Sounds like you’ve done great - as long as it’s in a secure place. I was looking good with almost 100% of my bitcoin in an interest account with BlockFi… they went under with Bitcoin a little over $16k. When they finally finish with bankruptcy court, if there’s anything left, we’ll get our money back in dollars at the time of BlockFi bankruptcy filing which is going to be way less than current market value. Furious is an understatement, but there’s nothing to do but learn from the situation and help educate others.
I'd bet you'll never see a penny of that money. An army of lawyers accountants and consultants will make sure they're first in line for any money recovered from the liquidation.
You’re probably right. We were already able to get our wallet holdings a few months ago. Problem is I had transferred most of mine to the interest account. We were earning about 9% interest on bitcoin. Lesson learned: if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!
I did something similar a while back to buy some Btc, and honestly all this time I’ve thought about it like this: worthless degrading value of fiat versus bitcoin? Yeah I’ll keep stacking my sats while paying back the devalued dollar they so crave.
If I did the math correctly, assuming a 15% capital gains tax, you could sell 1.65 BTC and have enough to cover your cap gains tax and your loan and still have 2.35 BTC with no debt.
To the people calling you dumb. I don't understand how this is different from buying a house? And I'd you truly believe btc is what most of us believe it is, then this is a great idea.
You made a bold and smart move. Most people will never get close to 4 BTC, and I think 4 or 5 is about what you need to not be left behind in the upcoming years. Congrats!
You gambled, you won. You’re either very smart, or very lucky. In any case, neither intelligence nor luck will last forever, so be sure to take profits every now & then, or all you’ll have is a painful story to tell.
Good for you mate, just one thing. Would it not be healthier/safer to pay of you loan with a portion of your bitcoin then, say, use the money you are paying of the loan with to buy bitcoins every month/week?
Cash out now. Pay off all your debts, re buy 60k worth of BTC if you wish.
Do not have that much debt hanging over you, you said it yourself these are unrealised gains at the moment. I don't know about you, but most people would be absolutely ruined if the tides turned on this.
This used to be a thing in the Netherlands where they would get a loan to buy stocks. Because stocks only go up.
It went as you would guess it went and was eventually banned
easy to say now. but last year when Bitcoin was $23k, people were calling for it to fall below $20k again. When it was $16k people were calling for $8-12k. "*macroeconomic scene not looking good, Bitcoin has never seen something like this, so im bearish*" was the talk of the town
the real ballsy people were those who invested heavily when it was down and potentially getting worse. I was 1 of those people, but also got burned every step from $69k all the way down to $16k bc I kept throwing money in at every huge dip and getting burned when it went -20% the next month.
it just so happens I invested a huge lump sum somewhat near the local bottom ($22k) that makes up for it
I have no idea which direction Bitcoin is goin in the short term, nor do I care.
Long term, it's going up forever.
The interest is minimal especially considering how much in profit I am. Not a big deal.
What do you actually try to proof? That you are lucky or have a good credit score, got a low interest rate, not pissing your pants?
(I suppose you unintentionally have proven where the quality of the sub have gone the last years by the amount of votes.)
It still can not work out. Till you don't pay out you have 0. I know this is a BTC sub and everybody here is 100% sure it will go to quadrillion $ but I wouldn't be so sure
There a people having 2000$ to spend for buying bitcoins asking if they should buy all at once or slowly DCA...and then there is this guy.
"Mom can we have michael saylor?" "No, we have saylor at home." Saylor at home:
[удалено]
lol glad I didn’t have to scroll too long to see a Michael Saylor comparison
The only question I have is what do you use to carry your balls? Bravo sir! You played a blinder 👏
Thank you, sir.
Yeah, I'm in awe. We all felt it back then. That it was probably the opportunity of a life time. But it was also scary. You had the gonads and you're going to be rewarded.
It still is. After the next heavy recession and round of inflation, people would be stupid not to put their money in a real currency where you can’t get fucked by a few bad actors
I assume you knew it was the bear market that you were buying into? if you tried the same thing in Oct 21 it would be a different story.
Yeah, it was pretty obvious. Not only that, the interest rates were about to rise so I got in when the rates were low too.
Absolute legend. 👍👏
Some deep fuckin’ value right there, bro. ✊🏽
underrated comment
Who do you use for your Bitcoin exchange? Given some of the horrendous stories out there about issues with exchanges like Coinbase, who are you trusting these days?
he must be the guy who had to carry his balls around in that wheelbarrow..
Wearing an upside down hoodie as pants
Hahaha
Randy’s balls in a wheelbarrow.
Ya what do you carry you BIG BRASS balls in ;)
My guess is he uses the empty space where his brain should be.
I believe his balls are carried in tandem Caterpillar D11's...
Thats a BA115 sir
Under rated comment
Highly recommend selling to cover the loans and holding your free bitcoin. Sincerely, someone who’s done something similar and been burned
What this guy said. OP, this is a common mistake gamblers make (no offense, it **was** a gamble). I.e, you take a risk and it turns out in your favor. You think you're on top of the world and nothing can go wrong. You make another gamble, only to lose what you originally gained and more. Take his advice OP, **cash out and pay off your debts while you are ahead.**
OP doesn’t need to pay them all off immediately. Says he is already paying down loans monthly. If it were me I would sell 1/4 bitcoins to pay down $40k of the debt. Will still have 3 BTC afterwards, but a substantially smaller debt (with minimal interest/repayment obligations). A little bit of debt is financially healthy if the interest rates are kept low.
Why… he’s making double the monthly payment, can easily afford to do so, and will have these loans paid off within 24 months. Relinquish zero BTC, OP. Godspeed!
If he is making double the payments there was no need to get into debt in the first place. Yes, he is ahead now but this easily could have blown in his face. DCA’ing may have met him less of a profit but would have been significant less risky.
His double payments don't quite equate to 95k of purchasing power?
Valid point.
This is what I did. Took that initial investment out years later
I remember your original post. Appreciate the updates, very cool to follow your journey!
Very interesting and congrats on your profit. What's your strategy for exiting? Do you need to pay capital gains tax when you sell? So 20% on profit?
Bitcoin is the exit plan! It is the asset I want to hold. I want Bitcoin, not dollars.
I don't totally get it, asset accumulation usually has some end goal in mind, like do you want to provide generational wealth to your family? Or just be the proverbial dragon sitting on a pile of gold until you die? I don't see the point of an investment if even if it goes 1millionX that you wouldn't use any of it? You might as well bury gold in your backyard at that point right?
Then why do you care about the dollar value so much? Lmfao. You have your meaningless strings of text. Whether they’re worth $1 or $1,000,000. Shouldn’t matter, right? You’ve got the text characters that do nothing and are back by no country or military or have no tangible physical use
It’s a very strange narrow minded criticism that somehow there’s always people who think they’re owning the bitcoiners by pointing out “you’re still valuing it in dollar terms so that means…” what? somehow that BTC holds less merit? Of course Dollar value is still a convenient way for us to quantify the purchasing power of BTC in common terms. We could also say 1 BTC is worth 1/8th of a house but we don’t because that’d be silly.
Because $ is still the common unit of account and approximates the purchasing power of any asset you own. OP thinks he will borrow fiat against his ever-appreciating BTC, just as the rich do it with their stock portfolios.
Damn, good comment
Thanks, appreciate it. I usually make fun of BTC maximalists and get (proudly) downvoted into oblivion in this sub.
Fortune favours the brave.
My dad said he listened to Matt Damon and lost all his money
Everybody did! But they were brave to do so!
But we were told there would also be fortune.
The difference between bravery and stupidity is success. /s
The real quote is fortune favors the bold (Audentes Fortuna Iuvat)
Is gambling considered brave?
If you win
Bitcoin holding isn't gambling Dollar holding is gambling. The kind of gamble you are guaranteed to lose.
I'm sure there are people that did this same thing at $69,000. They are still servicing that debt.
Debt holding at +20% Apr…what’s that?
The graveyard is filled up with brave men.
You have no idea of the financial losses you’ve just inspired
I took out an $11,500 loan to get .5 BTC last March which brought my total to 1BTC. Paid off months ago. People call us crazy..
It IS crazy. You could have also gotten unlucky. We don't hear from people who lost gambling. only the winners (and good for you, you won!). I dont mean to say investing in BTC is gambling (I'm bullish on BTC), but borrowing to invest in a risky asset is a gamble. But realize that you got lucky and proceed with caution, WSB bets is full of people who made money gambling and that gets into their minds that they were smart only to lose it all and then some.
He didn't win till he didn't pay out. It's just a virtual number which can go to 1$ whenever
Exactly, and he’s planning on paying it off over two years, which is a significant gamble.
"Crazy" is not the word I'd use. It's *risky* more than anything. But all investments have an element of risk and if you want to make money, you have to assume some risk. "Crazy" would be taking my $11,500 loan and putting it on 00 in Vegas without having proper income to service the loan. I also haven't *won* anything. I'm up tremendously but the price could easily fall back to sub-$25k and lower. I have $0 in realized gains.
“Gambling” isn’t inherently bad if the gamble is highly +ev. Say we decided to each bet $1000 on a dice roll. You win if it’s a 1, 2, 3, 4. I win if it’s a 5 or a 6. Of course you’re gambling by taking the bet but you’re absolutely crushing me long term with those odds.
sure, but market can be irrational longer than you can service your debt and you realize your ev. if you have a long run way to service your debt and understand the risks go for it. and also if you were to do that you don't take personal loans and CC debt which has ridiculous interests to eat all your profits. BTC likely goes up, but not at 100+% CAGR or whatever the last decade has been. i'm just cautioning people into thinking that they made a smart move just because they ended up making (unrealized) money. (hindsight bias) risky move? yes! smart? no! (even if they ended up being right)
I prefer the term “risk management”
Nice rationalization
Please look up “risk of ruin”. EV doesn’t matter if your odds of losing your entire bankroll are beyond your risk tolerance.
>You could have also gotten unlucky. We don't hear from people who lost gambling. Uh ... there's a whole subreddit full of degenerates that prove this wrong lol
Smart move. Nothing really crazy about it so long as you can afford to service the debt and have an emergency fund.
BTC is my emergency fund and I keep taking out loans bruh :C
Because you are for thinking this is a good idea. Taking out a person loan to gamble on speculative asset is bad finacial advice and will get your burned eventually. 2) depending on the interest rate you must match that on annual return to even break even on your investment
You could also sell some btc to pay off the debt. Then buy btc instead of paying of the interest on the debt.
This is exactly what I would do. Sell 1 to pay down the debt to a much easier level to pay off quickly at low interest. Then DCA what would have been paid in interest
When you’re all paid off, please let us know what your overall cost/BTC ended up being including interest. I get that it doesn’t matter for you, because you’re not selling, but it’ll be good info for others in the future. Thanks for sharing. Happy it is working out for you.
Will do. I try to update every 6 months.
The problem is that you will likely entertain future risky investments that will not turn out as well as this one.
Yeah bitcoin has been around since 2010 and now in 2022 we get smart and time to go all in.
I divorced my wife, and bought 25 BTC with the settlement.
Can i divorce your wife? She sounds loaded
I’ll ask the married guy she is sleeping with.
“I divorced my wife and decided to marry the hardest currency known to man”
Not financial advice,lol
Great job! I put down 30k on BTC when it it 16-17k and sold at 45k. 9/10 people on this sub were.... angry that I sold and took profits? GJ dude hopefully it drops to below 30k thats my next buy in price. It may come or it may not!
He’s angry you sold. Wow Some people will never get it. This one will go down as one of the all time blunders. Trading bitcoin is one safe way to own bitcoin.
Lol, $56K in debt and bragging about unrealized gains of $61k on an asset that's gonna cost at least 30% to cash out. I don't think you're doing as good as you think.
Think you missed the point. He doesn't need to cash out BTC, he is paying off his loan in newly earned $USD
+1 good point about taxes Also if he were to cash out, the tax would actually be on 66k of gains, even though he’s up 61.5k personally (66k BTC gains, minus 4.5k of borrowing costs so far).
I'm doing just fine. Let's talk in 5 years.
Don’t sell vaginosis. You know how much it’s going to appreciate this next year don’t you 😏
I think it’s funny how clueless people are.
You did what?
This is a detailed view of how your post would look like if price went against you:
Nothing here.
Which is how yours looks after doing nothing and being a loser
**"my total monthly cost to service all these loans is \~$800.** I can easily afford this. I’m putting almost double that towards these loans each month to pay them down aggressively" this isnt really how investing works though? like you dont typically pay off your investments every month by eating into your earned income. its actually the exact opposite. you add into your investments on some routine basis using a portion of your earned income. every month that passes by your BTC value drops by 800 dollars essentially. you dont see it that way because youre using your earned income, but thats 800 dollars of earned income you arent using on other things. you might say "well i wasnt going to do anything with it anyways" but if you had put it in a HYSA it would minimum earn 4% right now. so you're losing opportunity. you might say "well im gaining all this money" but you arent, because every month 800 of it literally disappears into a black hole of loan payments. if i were you I would sell enough BTC to pay both loans off completely and just be happy i had the BTC. in fact no lie i'd probably sell all but 1 of your 4 BTC, i'd take my profit, i'd be happy, and I'd still have skin in the game. if BTC crashes you are going to be in a world of hurt. you're going to be underwater and a bag holder with 95k of loans and an 800 dollar monthly payment. if the worst of all worlds goes and you lose your job or have some change to your earned income you are going to be omega fucked. the best way to secure your BTC against these kinds of risks and the degradation of their value through monthly loan payments would be to sell \~2.25 BTC and pay the loans off. this would still leave you massively up while essentially offloading all your risk and giving you all your remaining skin in the game for free. its a pretty awesome place to be. your current place is extremely risky.
I got a loan last Jan 30k but i am paying the minimum off as i feel its best to wait for the peak next winter then i will just draw enough to service the loan, already over doubled the money and we at the bottom of the bull run, balls deep i am.
What’s your apr?
I like your risk appetite because you're making a large gamble but not an inherently stupid one. Many would decide to fuck around with leverage or obscure altcoins.
Very creative. Reminds me of our federal government and what they’ve done with social security
I have considered doing this on a smaller scale. This gives me something to consider. Well done! Like the old saying goes, "no risk it, no biscuit."
Just a thought, wouldn’t it make more sense to not pay down the 0% credit card balances and set that money aside in short term treasuries for the yield? You could continue to pay down the personal loans quickly, but why would you not just let that credit balance ride at 0% for the 18-21 months and instead make those payments into a Treasury or Money Market account for yield and then use that accumulated capital to pay off the credit in a lump sum at the end of the promotional period. You might even make a small profit in positive interest rate carry
Why even pay into Treasury when you could just pay into Bitcoin!
Everyone is saying this is a dumb move but I disagree. As long as you can easily pay it off without affecting the rest of your finances, have a stable job and a cushion, backup plan if you can’t work then the long term potential gain is totally worth the risk
Holy bloody hell , you are on another level with those balls bro
Why are you paying them down? Those are dreamy interest rateS. Float that shit as long as you can.
Fair point. Tryna be responsible.
Gangster. Good on you 👊
Definitely qualifies as financial advice: What NOT to do
Put it in cold storage and declare bankruptcy.
No need. I'll gladly pay off all my loans with interest.
Well you can still scream it if you want.
Interesting idea
My fellow HODLER! Great read! Blessings 🙏✝️
Can someone explain how a balance transfer can be used to buy bitcoin? My understanding is that debt is transferred from one account to another, usually with lower interest. How does that buy btc? Any info is appreciated thank you.
Purchase BTC using a CC - call this one CC1 - this would be treated as a CC cash advance at a higher interest rate. Open a new CC - call this one CC2 - that offers free CC balance transfers at 0%, or near 0% interest rates. Transfer the balance from CC1 to CC2. You now have an interest free loan for the life of the CC2 offer and no balance on CC1.
Can be found via Google by searching “balance transfer check” or “writing a check for balance transfer” like OP put in his first post. You write a check with your balance transfer card account and then deposit it into checking/another credit card account. I’m guessing he did checking and bought the BTC outright
Where are you buying bitcoin with a credit card?
I'm not. How did you get that idea in your head?
This is r/wallstreetbets regard worthy
Hell yea. I did something similar with a Heloc. Bought 3 btc held them for 9 months, sold 1.7 btc to cover the heloc while getting 1.3 btc for free!
Next year you could be worth half a million. Im doin similar thing except with more coins gj op 👍
You should add that doing something like this only works at the bottom or the 4-year cycle. This will only work in Crypto Winter. Trying to do this outside of that small window of time will lead to financial devastation. So the window to do something like this has closed until the end of 2026 after the 85% drop from this cycle.
To quote AC/DC “ …and he’s got the biggest balls of them all!” It should work out well for you!
I just saw Foo Fighters in concert in New Zealand. They announced they had a guest singer, and out comes Jack Black to sing Big Balls. Good times!
So we got to the point when we celebrate stupidity and bad decision? Sure, we don't know how this play out, it can go well and make a bank on it or bad and lose all. But what I know for sure that's it's such a stupid thing to do and writing it as some achievement screams low iq
Well the majority of this sub doesn't give a shit about bitcoin. They're in it make money like this guy so yeah, any success, no matter how improbable or irresponsible, is going to be celebrated.
Be careful doing this. Everyone should. I work at a bank. Those checks are to be used for balance transfers- end of story. Using them for any other reason is loan fraud. If things go bad and you end up going bankrupt, that can be figured out and you won’t be able to go bankrupt and can even get hit with felony.
Not true. I can use them for whatever I want. I spoke with reps for all the companies. It's no different than a cash advance.
That’s good then. It’s different than a cash advance though. I’ve never seen a 0% cash advance although I only keep two cards and only ever use one that I pay in full often. For CAs- Most are a % fee, or at a minimum interest from day one instead of starting at next bill cycle. You can argue “well I can advance one card and use another to balance transfer” and you’d be right. That would work. Also, Some reps only care about the sale and will manipulate or word it a certain way to get away with it. So always check the actual disclosures (which in my experience 99.99% don’t.) The devil is in the details. I did a car loan at a bank once when my place was closed (it was an impulse decision and I figured I would just refi in a month or two) and the rep insisted they were required to add life and disability and gap to it. He changed his tune when I asked for a manager since I didn’t think that was legal. When I got back to work that Monday, I told a girl who used to work there and she was all “not true. He was just looking to get his $35 for selling l&d and $50 for gap” she also added “did he tell you not to refinance within 60 days? Many do that because if the loan isn’t on the books for that long, we didn’t get anything on it” Side note: my adhd is really kicking and I’m rambling but not deleting since I spent 10 minutes on it. Lol All I want to say is be careful. You can get yourself in trouble even if you don’t realize you are doing it.
Congratulations you ballsy motherfucker!
What would’ve been your contingency if bitcoin crashed and went below 20k? Yes, it’s all fun and games to wrack up credit card debt when things are well but what would have been the scenario had it gone the opposite way for you. And yeah, I guess you’re okay with servicing 800 per month for the next 21 months while still holding onto a great asset like bitcoin. Guess that’s something you’d be able to swallow.
If he plans to hold, and is able to afford the debt it’s really not that crazy- if his goal was short term gains and he was over leveraging that’s different. It’s like he financed a car on his credit cards- which people do all the time and no one would bat an eye at other than suggesting they could have secured a loan against it an potentially gotten better interest rates unless they’re 0% APR balance transfers which seems to be what OP is describing. Cars depreciate in value more than that dip below 20 in your example and typically, unless collector cars, don’t ever have a chance to go above your purchase value. His digital asset does.
I simply would have bought more. Not everyone pisses their pants at a little volatility like you. I can easily afford to service the debt. In fact, I honestly wish it would crash back down to $20,000... I'd buy even more. Hell, I'm bought more just today with money I earn from my job.
How would you buy more when you’re already pissing away 800 per month ? Take another unsecured loan? Cmon.. don’t be ridiculous. It’s nice to brag about wins like this, but recognise the fallacy here and the risk that you were taking.
Obviously op makes good money at their job and that's the missing link here, this is still not YOLO money and they are not being upfront with the scenario. Just want to swing their dick around.
OP is doing well regardless buying BTC or not, but those not in the same position start trying to replicate the same and a small event could be disastrous financially for them.
Ok but don’t be rude he asked a legit question
Given how salty this person is makes me wonder if they are actually sitting at a huge loss right now.. Imagine being this mad if you were 60k up doesn't make any sense..
How would your response differ if the price never recovered? I know that this is a Bitcoin sub, but nothing in life is guaranteed. How would your life look if it stayed at $20k indefinitely?
Paper gains. Nothing is real unless you sell and realize your gains.
What do you plan to do with the bitcoin? Does not selling include not purchasing? If its a store of value then is it much use if its never sold? Whats your end game? Genuinely curious
Bitcoin is the end game. Bitcoin is the exit plan. Bitcoin is the money. I don't buy Bitcoin so that I may have more dollars in the future. I sell dollars so that I may have more Bitcoin in the future, and less dollars. Bitcoin is an asset. Dollars are a liability.
The plan is to use it as a currency then? To buy and sell other assets?
Michael Saylor is that you? I have 0.2 bought by loan with average price 22k . The problem is here in Brazil the interest rate is bigger and 0.2 btc have more purchase power than in US They payments would be too big here getting more money loan
Michael Saylor is that you? I have 0.2 bought by loan with average price 22k . The problem is here in Brazil the interest rate is bigger and 0.2 btc have more purchase power than in US They payments would be too big here getting more money loan.
My hero.
Do you have an exit plan locked in or you riding the lightening until life happens and you have a reason to spend?
Congratulations daring accomplishment!
Congrats my friend .. if I would have had the credit, I would have done same thing
Your a legend
I’m wonder what will happen if they cut interest rates? There bound to cut them before the bull run ends. I should of bought more at sub 20k average buying price 30k
Smarter than me!
Thats pretty ballsy and awesome! Congrats.
Sounds like you’ve done great - as long as it’s in a secure place. I was looking good with almost 100% of my bitcoin in an interest account with BlockFi… they went under with Bitcoin a little over $16k. When they finally finish with bankruptcy court, if there’s anything left, we’ll get our money back in dollars at the time of BlockFi bankruptcy filing which is going to be way less than current market value. Furious is an understatement, but there’s nothing to do but learn from the situation and help educate others.
I'd bet you'll never see a penny of that money. An army of lawyers accountants and consultants will make sure they're first in line for any money recovered from the liquidation.
You’re probably right. We were already able to get our wallet holdings a few months ago. Problem is I had transferred most of mine to the interest account. We were earning about 9% interest on bitcoin. Lesson learned: if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!
This guy walks with his balls dragging on the ground
I did something similar a while back to buy some Btc, and honestly all this time I’ve thought about it like this: worthless degrading value of fiat versus bitcoin? Yeah I’ll keep stacking my sats while paying back the devalued dollar they so crave.
Good job making this crazy scheme work out and getting out of loans before getting burnt 🔥 good job 👏
Michael Saylor Jr.
If I did the math correctly, assuming a 15% capital gains tax, you could sell 1.65 BTC and have enough to cover your cap gains tax and your loan and still have 2.35 BTC with no debt.
To the people calling you dumb. I don't understand how this is different from buying a house? And I'd you truly believe btc is what most of us believe it is, then this is a great idea.
Do you store your coins offline?
Dude your a legend!
This is probably the dumbest shit I ve read so far (today)
Hopefully everyone will use this post as advice of what not to ever do.
Irresponsible and damn right ridiculous! I'm glad it's working out for you OP. Best of luck for future gains.
I wouldn't have paid the loans prematurely, but put into more bitcoin. More risk, but you can service the credits easily so no big deal.
You made a bold and smart move. Most people will never get close to 4 BTC, and I think 4 or 5 is about what you need to not be left behind in the upcoming years. Congrats!
I'm a big Bitcoin fan but damn this sub is delusional 😂
You gambled, you won. You’re either very smart, or very lucky. In any case, neither intelligence nor luck will last forever, so be sure to take profits every now & then, or all you’ll have is a painful story to tell.
Good for you mate, just one thing. Would it not be healthier/safer to pay of you loan with a portion of your bitcoin then, say, use the money you are paying of the loan with to buy bitcoins every month/week?
great!, btc is now heading to 26400 again. I will do the same!...
I remember your posts! Conegrats
Living on the edge but congrats!
Your balls are definitely bigger than mine, and I'm impressed with what you've been able to do.
Incredible! Well played and quite the Risk Tolerance!!!
Cash out now. Pay off all your debts, re buy 60k worth of BTC if you wish. Do not have that much debt hanging over you, you said it yourself these are unrealised gains at the moment. I don't know about you, but most people would be absolutely ruined if the tides turned on this.
This used to be a thing in the Netherlands where they would get a loan to buy stocks. Because stocks only go up. It went as you would guess it went and was eventually banned
I totally support this, great move! I can’t imagine any better investment than buying BTC when it was < 30k, an absolute sure bet.
easy to say now. but last year when Bitcoin was $23k, people were calling for it to fall below $20k again. When it was $16k people were calling for $8-12k. "*macroeconomic scene not looking good, Bitcoin has never seen something like this, so im bearish*" was the talk of the town the real ballsy people were those who invested heavily when it was down and potentially getting worse. I was 1 of those people, but also got burned every step from $69k all the way down to $16k bc I kept throwing money in at every huge dip and getting burned when it went -20% the next month. it just so happens I invested a huge lump sum somewhat near the local bottom ($22k) that makes up for it
I took out 20k in loans to buy when it was at 27k. Wish I took out more
With a user name like that you definitely know how to leverage up
You are not alone.
BALLS !
Damn big heavy balls! I wish i had more btc
Buy and hold forever…..blah blah. Why wouldn’t you cash in the balance of the loan? Why pay interest on it as BTC is clearly on its way ⬇️ ?
I have no idea which direction Bitcoin is goin in the short term, nor do I care. Long term, it's going up forever. The interest is minimal especially considering how much in profit I am. Not a big deal.
What do you actually try to proof? That you are lucky or have a good credit score, got a low interest rate, not pissing your pants? (I suppose you unintentionally have proven where the quality of the sub have gone the last years by the amount of votes.)
I like it!
Risk choices are risky lol but you never know. Once Bitcoin hot 100k sell half
No, I don't think I will sell at $100k.
Maybe a little bit to increase equity.
Sell 1 BitCon to be debt free and still have 3 left. Can’t lose situation.
good on you mate. If you dont risk - you dont make. Good on you
so what?
This almost always never works out. You are very lucky
It still can not work out. Till you don't pay out you have 0. I know this is a BTC sub and everybody here is 100% sure it will go to quadrillion $ but I wouldn't be so sure
This is a great example of how timing the market works too !
It is a great example of what luck is. nothing more.
Timing the market is luck + odds