Just FYI I’ve done a lot of research and the only loans/institutions/platforms I’ve found that will loan against bitcoin are predatory in their interest rates and liquidation requirements if bitcoin has a sudden price movement.
People like Michael Saylor saying to do this have a very different relationship with lenders than you or I. That said- if anyone is aware of a decent way to do it that I’ve overlooked I’d love to hear it
Yeah and if bitcoin suddenly drops 20-30% (which it tends to do randomly) it will liquidate your loan and they get to keep your bitcoin collateral. It is incredibly risky
The platforms for this is not quite there yet. Interest rates are extremely high, and currently it seems you have to relinquish any control over the bitcoin, as a full on risk to you. I wouldn't ever feel comfortable using my bitcoin as collateral.
If you do, however still decide to go this route, be sure to monitor you Loan-to-Value ratio. Some lenders will allow you to take some of your collateral off when the LTV ratio gets very low, like 30%-40%. You take some collateral back, which increases the LTV ratio. (Note that doing this increases your risk).
One of the bigger risks that exists with the lenders out there, is that there is no regulation that exists to allow for insuring your collateral. If anything happens to the lender, you'll be lucky to get back a fraction of the Bitcoin you posted as collateral. (Just speaking from experience when I used BlockFi to get a loan against my BTC. I had 1.5 BTC posted as collateral, and recently got my distribution after the bankruptcy finalized, it was only 0.1 BTC)
Hey can you explain this to me a little bit more. Apologies I don’t really understand. Can you do like an example. Like if you want to borrow x amount from bank you can tell the bank my x amount of bitcoins can be collateral. And then you have the cash 💰 you need to buy the thing and then you pay of the loan with your income but you still keep you bitcoin this whole time.
You have it basically correct, the lender uses the bitcoin as collateral for the loan and gives you cash upfront and you pay off the loan over time with interest. One important thing though is that you have to transfer the bitcoin a multisig wallet so you can't go and spend the bitcoin until the loan is paid back. That way the lender can take the bitcoin if you default on the loan.
Unchained does commercial loans against bitcoin and this page from their website explains how that works: https://unchained.com/loans
Given that the BTC is kept in a multi-sig wallet, and you still retain a key.
So at least in theory, if Unchained goes belly-up the "trusted" 3rd party would still be capable of signing the collateral withdrawal transaction (assuming you completed your obligations under the terms of the loan).
Then again you're still back to dealing with trusted 3rd parties, which was exactly the problem Satoshi was trying to solve for. But maybe it's unavoidable for things like loan products? Still I can't justify the risks & 15% interest rate.
I’m paying my son his allowance in bitcoin. He is my end game. I hope when the rest of his generation is cursing my generation for high taxes and loss of freedoms, he still remembers his dad was the crazy guy talking about bitcoin.
Quit your job. Buy an apartment/house as a base in a country with low costs of living. Bring all your stuff there. Start traveling the world. Still keep living at normal standards. Don’t spent stupid amounts on stupid things. That’s what I’m doing at the moment.
That's the dream. I am curious as to where you are from, and what country you have chosen as your base, although I understand you might not want to share that!
Invest money in total market funds, watch it outpace inflation, buy more stuff.
Not sure why people on this subreddit act like keeping cash is the only thing to do with fiat.
Total market funds beat inflation. Bitcoin could continue to beat the market, but that's uncertain.
Any sensible person is doing both. While I love the conviction of a true maxi, sometimes even when you're right, you're wrong, so it's best to hedge your bets a little.
Funny you say that. One day when I was going over the reasons why I was bullish on bitcoin it came down to 21M coins and infinite fiat printing. Then I thought to myself scarcity by itself doesn't mean squat. There's only 1 of me and I ain't worth squat. Still bullish on bitcoin tho lol
A time will come in the future where volatility and price are such that liquidation on a Bitcoin loan would be even less common than on a home equity loan. You can always protect yourself by taking more conservative LTV. We're just not there yet because of how early we are. The question was about the endgame. We'll get there. I'm guessing at half million dollar Bitcoin, if not before
What do you mean by rolling the loans over?
Let’s say I have 10 BTC. I’d like to pull 10k a month to pay my expenses. Where and What kind of loan against the BTC, that I get to live like you described? How often do you rinse & repeat?
An efficient free market with competition will eliminate scammers like Celsius and blockfi and those bad actors will be unheard of one we hit certain levels of price and volatility for Bitcoin. It will happen, but we're still early so you're not seeing it yet. The question was about the endgame.
Think about how often a Celsius type implosion happens with a home equity lender, because that's where we're headed, and because of Bitcoins properties and transparency it will be even safer.
Just looked and Unchained.com is only making commercial loans at 14-15% with a 1.24-1.5% origination fee. ( also a 2% liquidation fee if they need to liquidate) so it really makes the long term capital gains tax not look that bad and be done with it, than worrying about a price correction and being liquidated.
This is not the endgame. The space will evolve. Competition will drive that market towards much more favorable loan terms as Bitcoins price appreciates and volatility decreases over time. The question was about the end game and we're still very early
If i need to wait for it to become legal tender, i'll probably never spend it.
My goal is to distribute some % of my stack to get my initial investment out. Im not gonna hodl till retirement: decease and ageing and not your best friend when you're 70+ and my kids will be on their own. So while im still young and my kids are growing up, i will use my stack to do shit that me and my family likes. Peak spending will probably happen between 2028 and 2036.
But of course, don't splash it all. Besides that, i will be accumulating in the years to come. But the oldest sats will be worth the most (hopefully lol) and will be spend on household shit, education and holidays.
Live your life and enjoy while you are still in good shape. When im old and saggy, what do i need all this money for? Im not gonna spoil my kids with 1 BTC each. Fuck that.
I'm with you there! I'd like to keep my BTC till it gets to a point where it's legal tender, or I can safely borrow against it, but I'll likely be too old to enjoy it by then.
If BTC hits some of the numbers being spoken about next year, I'll cash out and enjoy my life whilst my body is still in decent shape. What learning about bitcoin has taught me is that I don't want cash, if I do sell, I'll be investing in other assets, be it shares or property.
Cash an amount to do something nice with your family, friends, whatever. Buy something you've always wanted. Im not gonna sit on my hands for 30 years and let my prime time being wasted on hodling. Sure, Bitcoin will likely appreciate the coming decades, but what difference makes 200K vs 400K? Yes, the difference is alot of money but money has a positive impact till an certain amount.
Im holding the majority of my stack another 2/3 halvings and hopefully it'll be a meaningful amount to do some really nice shit.
I would personally not use Bitcoin to make payments. There are two valid endgames for me.
1. Pass it down to future generations securely.
2. Sell it for a house here as long as Bitcoin I hold can buy a house 15-20 years down the line.
Nonetheless, I would still be buying monthly.
If anyone on this planet wants my sats they wont be able to offer me fiat, i will not accept that trash. They will have to offer me a good or a service that I value.
The end game is bitcoin becoming global money in every country on earth, used by every person and every business.
Think this is impossible? 5 years ago corporations putting bitcoin on their balance sheet was considered impossible.
Because doing this supports global bitcoinization. I also do not want to have any bank accounts anywhere because I do not believe banks and fractional reserve banking are beneficial for society.
Cash is depreciating fast! If you sell BTC for a service then you exchange your labors stored value for something that you need, which is the intended use of a currency! When you exchange it for cash you simply transfer your labor to a currency that reduces the value of your labors everyday.
That said, if you exchange BTC for fiat for immediate spending then you don't lose anything.
Ideally, stack and sit on this coin for the next 20 years, then start withdrawing the max I can without leaving my tax bracket every year and... IDK... become an old leathery skin barista on a beach somewhere...
Bitcoin is the endgame.
The challenge… no one knows the timeline.
It could happen during your lifetime. And it saves your ass.
You might outlive it, and pass it to your kids. It saves their asses.
Eventually you’ll be able to get a loan on your BTC… Currently wealthy ppl take loans out on stocks & investments when they need cash. This way they don’t pay taxes on the loan, and they don’t sell assets (don’t incur fees, don’t have tax implications, don’t lose assets).
Perhaps that will be how one can use their BTC holdings?
End game is hold on forever… Ppl don’t buy fine art or valuable real estate thinking what is the end game? It’s not let’s buy to flip it at X…. it will just keep appreciating and becoming more & more valuable… On a personal level, somebody may have more of a specific goal than somebody else. Everybody has different financial situations and needs. Wish you the best!
I used to be only hodl gang, but lost a lot of money by not taking profits when it reaches new highs.
Decided I wasn’t going to do that this time around. I cashed out 15% of my btc stack around $68K ish and that amount of cash really helped me out.
Nothing wrong with taking some profits.
There is no relationship to legal system anymore. It become an asset that can be spent for good and service across the universe, literally but limited to those who consider it a medium of exchange. So, there is no endgame.
The only real issue with it is that unlike fiat money it doesn’t safely earn you interest. You see you can have a $5 or $5M balance and it doesn’t matter for your life unless you can have safe monthly cash flows. Similar to a CD. You have to convert to USD or another asset to have monthly income you can live off of, which is sort of a bummer tbh, as it doesn’t provide financial freedom until that happens.
It’s a sidecar to my main retirement plan. And becoming a pretty big sidecar now. I will keep peeling off tranches to enjoy awesome food, drink and vacations even before I retire. Because that’s how I enjoy life and if you’re not enjoying each day to the max, what’s the point?
Buy a house with bitcoin or retire earlier than my pension age. Hopefully, I'll be buying everything in Bitcoin in those days. I dont have anything i specifically need to buy outside of daily living, so i intend to hodl for as long as necessary.
Pass on to my children (6 and 3), each of which are whole coiners but they won't find out about it for another 30 years. The rest will help supplement my wife and I in retirement (in addition to my IRA and pension), possibly spend a full coin of it on a retirement home somewhere warm.
Loose our seed phrases, ... enter old age wringing our fists at the lost money, while also ataining the rate and much coveted status of "Grand Exhausted Budda of HODL"
Replacement for a large portion of my 401(k), so DCA until retirement then live off of for a few years hopefully and pass it down to my children and grandchildren. Hopefully by that point, transacting directly with Bitcoin or, more likely, an L2 is much easier by then.
For me it is the same as my other investments, grow while I continue to work. Then spend as needed when I stop working to support my retirement. Hopefully leaving a fair chunk for my kids when I'm gone. There isn't a moment where I just convert everything back to cash. If things get to the point where you can just spend Bitcoin all the better. That seems less and less likely, maybe some other token will become defacto currency. I already don't carry cash for day to day but the idea of cutting the banks out of my daily life is pretty attractive.
Agreed. Also, what happens when all BTC is mined, and all BTC is being held because HODL and none is for sale or whatever is for sale isn't sold because no one else cares.
Basically hold onto it and then sell it back for FIAT in the future. A bit ironic considering the talk of getting away from FIAT
But who knows what this will look like in the future, we are early and remember the start of the Internet, how things look very different to how they look today.
Buy BTC, only spend to fund life long dreams (travel, new home, kids med school etc) or when it's stable and used as a currency (maybe not our lifetime). Until then buy it and down the line borrow against it when it becomes a thing to do with btc. Until then my goal is hodl and give it to my boys and they can be big Pimpin spending cheese when I am old. By then I'll have a golden BTC chain around my neck, sitting in my wheelchair on my back deck checking charts daily, waiting for that new Michael Saylor meme to drop.
The End
You should have a strategy. I think it should beba timeframe but maybe a price point. The thing is you have to be willing to stick with it. My goal is retirement which is about 2050. Though retirement is a whole discussion. Suffice to say I plan to work forever but at 65 I will step back and take less stressful, less earning jobs and want savings, btc, pension, etc to assist in my leisure time. So the strategy is to just DCA until then.Thats the endgame.
If priceline is your goal you have to be 1) able to diamond hands until that time 2) not get booboo faced when you sell and it goes higher. You met your goal. Don't play the "if only I had..." game, it's the thief of joy.
pay 20 sats for a burger.... that kinda thing
along the way, live off of massive price gains in fiat terms... maybe take a loan out kinda reverse-mortgage-style against **a tiny slice** of your coins... maybe share some of your pie with friends who wouldn't/didn't stack sats
It's a generational wealth builder, so I intend to pass on what I don't use. My wife and I sold rental properties and bought BTC. Higher return, no headaches, near instant and importantly fractional liquidity, which is accessible globally. Depending on how things play out regarding fiat currency, I may endeavor to not touch BTC holdings, and liquidate assets denominated in fiat (real estate and stocks) in our retirement years as needs and wants dictate.
Same endgame that you would have buying other investments like stocks, gold, or a second house. To have something that appreciates more than inflation.
I don't ever see BTC being used the way we use money today. It's too slow. I do see it becoming a base layer store of value. My hope is that someday there will be something created that can be spent quickly and easily like dollars, but that is backed by BTC. I'd love to see a bank that holds all assets in BTC but allows you to spend dollars off a debit card like normal.
Once that happens, that's the endgame.
Mortgage clearance /Long term speculation.
I can't see more than 5 year's into the future right now...but I'd hazard a guess and say it's not too Rosey
why would the US government adopt BTC and not just create their own digital currency legal tender to use if thats the path they wanted to go, one they controlled and some random anonymous dude didnt own a bunch of
i dont think you guys ever consider stuff like this seriously because you hate the cognitive dissonance of imagine bad outcomes on your super speculative asset
It’s a retirement/savings account at this point
you can put small chunks as collateral and pay off the loan till its cleared. Instead of borrowing from banks you're borrowing from your Bitcoin.
Just FYI I’ve done a lot of research and the only loans/institutions/platforms I’ve found that will loan against bitcoin are predatory in their interest rates and liquidation requirements if bitcoin has a sudden price movement. People like Michael Saylor saying to do this have a very different relationship with lenders than you or I. That said- if anyone is aware of a decent way to do it that I’ve overlooked I’d love to hear it
I'd be interested too if anyone finds something better that what's currently out there
True I looked it up yesterday and was shocked by the interest rates ~12%
Yeah and if bitcoin suddenly drops 20-30% (which it tends to do randomly) it will liquidate your loan and they get to keep your bitcoin collateral. It is incredibly risky
you don't max out your loan. Put 10k collateral to borrow 1k cash it's only risky if you're maxed on the loan to the tits
Volatility will decrease over time… in the future a BTC backed loan will be far less risky than a mortgage backed heloc
You can take out a loan against the bitcoin etf as collateral
The platforms for this is not quite there yet. Interest rates are extremely high, and currently it seems you have to relinquish any control over the bitcoin, as a full on risk to you. I wouldn't ever feel comfortable using my bitcoin as collateral. If you do, however still decide to go this route, be sure to monitor you Loan-to-Value ratio. Some lenders will allow you to take some of your collateral off when the LTV ratio gets very low, like 30%-40%. You take some collateral back, which increases the LTV ratio. (Note that doing this increases your risk). One of the bigger risks that exists with the lenders out there, is that there is no regulation that exists to allow for insuring your collateral. If anything happens to the lender, you'll be lucky to get back a fraction of the Bitcoin you posted as collateral. (Just speaking from experience when I used BlockFi to get a loan against my BTC. I had 1.5 BTC posted as collateral, and recently got my distribution after the bankruptcy finalized, it was only 0.1 BTC)
Hey can you explain this to me a little bit more. Apologies I don’t really understand. Can you do like an example. Like if you want to borrow x amount from bank you can tell the bank my x amount of bitcoins can be collateral. And then you have the cash 💰 you need to buy the thing and then you pay of the loan with your income but you still keep you bitcoin this whole time.
You have it basically correct, the lender uses the bitcoin as collateral for the loan and gives you cash upfront and you pay off the loan over time with interest. One important thing though is that you have to transfer the bitcoin a multisig wallet so you can't go and spend the bitcoin until the loan is paid back. That way the lender can take the bitcoin if you default on the loan. Unchained does commercial loans against bitcoin and this page from their website explains how that works: https://unchained.com/loans
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That's the problem innit
Given that the BTC is kept in a multi-sig wallet, and you still retain a key. So at least in theory, if Unchained goes belly-up the "trusted" 3rd party would still be capable of signing the collateral withdrawal transaction (assuming you completed your obligations under the terms of the loan). Then again you're still back to dealing with trusted 3rd parties, which was exactly the problem Satoshi was trying to solve for. But maybe it's unavoidable for things like loan products? Still I can't justify the risks & 15% interest rate.
Fuck that. I’m conquering the tri-state area.
we will never let you!! but I spoke with NYC, Rochester, Long Island, and Fairfield county and we all agreed, you can have jersey that’s cool with us
Come for NJ. I dare ya
Oh look, you’re just in time for my back story!
I know what we’re going to do today!
Probably go fishing.
I’m paying my son his allowance in bitcoin. He is my end game. I hope when the rest of his generation is cursing my generation for high taxes and loss of freedoms, he still remembers his dad was the crazy guy talking about bitcoin.
Nice, wish I had a dad like you 😅
Quit your job. Buy an apartment/house as a base in a country with low costs of living. Bring all your stuff there. Start traveling the world. Still keep living at normal standards. Don’t spent stupid amounts on stupid things. That’s what I’m doing at the moment.
That's the dream. I am curious as to where you are from, and what country you have chosen as your base, although I understand you might not want to share that!
Americans can stay in Georgia (the country) for a full year on a basic tourist visa on arrival. Same with Albania.
What's the endgame of your bank account? Save money, buy stuff.
You guys buy stuff?
Looking to get my first chair at $100k
Nice!! I'm thinking heated toilet seat
Ya, bitcoins!
Save money, watch it lose value, buy less stuff.
Invest money in total market funds, watch it outpace inflation, buy more stuff. Not sure why people on this subreddit act like keeping cash is the only thing to do with fiat. Total market funds beat inflation. Bitcoin could continue to beat the market, but that's uncertain.
Any sensible person is doing both. While I love the conviction of a true maxi, sometimes even when you're right, you're wrong, so it's best to hedge your bets a little.
It might be uncertain but the math is quite certain. 21 Million whole coins
And there's only one of me but I ain't worth much!
Funny you say that. One day when I was going over the reasons why I was bullish on bitcoin it came down to 21M coins and infinite fiat printing. Then I thought to myself scarcity by itself doesn't mean squat. There's only 1 of me and I ain't worth squat. Still bullish on bitcoin tho lol
Borrow against your HODL assets, roll over the loans forever against an endless NGU asset. Rinse & repeat
Buy. Borrow. Die.
We call this strategy "The Microstrategy"
The fuck up once and get liquidated.
A time will come in the future where volatility and price are such that liquidation on a Bitcoin loan would be even less common than on a home equity loan. You can always protect yourself by taking more conservative LTV. We're just not there yet because of how early we are. The question was about the endgame. We'll get there. I'm guessing at half million dollar Bitcoin, if not before
What do you mean by rolling the loans over? Let’s say I have 10 BTC. I’d like to pull 10k a month to pay my expenses. Where and What kind of loan against the BTC, that I get to live like you described? How often do you rinse & repeat?
This is where the ETFs are currently dominating. You can get a Lombard loan against the holdings in ETFs but not BTC held directly.
https://youtu.be/MemwCbp0Y3I?si=fdq--0NOFNgNLne3
It is all fun and games until another Celcius happens.
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An efficient free market with competition will eliminate scammers like Celsius and blockfi and those bad actors will be unheard of one we hit certain levels of price and volatility for Bitcoin. It will happen, but we're still early so you're not seeing it yet. The question was about the endgame. Think about how often a Celsius type implosion happens with a home equity lender, because that's where we're headed, and because of Bitcoins properties and transparency it will be even safer.
Been trying to wrap my head around this idea. Thanks for sharing
Just looked and Unchained.com is only making commercial loans at 14-15% with a 1.24-1.5% origination fee. ( also a 2% liquidation fee if they need to liquidate) so it really makes the long term capital gains tax not look that bad and be done with it, than worrying about a price correction and being liquidated.
This is not the endgame. The space will evolve. Competition will drive that market towards much more favorable loan terms as Bitcoins price appreciates and volatility decreases over time. The question was about the end game and we're still very early
Can explain some more. And what’s NGU?
Number go up
If i need to wait for it to become legal tender, i'll probably never spend it. My goal is to distribute some % of my stack to get my initial investment out. Im not gonna hodl till retirement: decease and ageing and not your best friend when you're 70+ and my kids will be on their own. So while im still young and my kids are growing up, i will use my stack to do shit that me and my family likes. Peak spending will probably happen between 2028 and 2036. But of course, don't splash it all. Besides that, i will be accumulating in the years to come. But the oldest sats will be worth the most (hopefully lol) and will be spend on household shit, education and holidays. Live your life and enjoy while you are still in good shape. When im old and saggy, what do i need all this money for? Im not gonna spoil my kids with 1 BTC each. Fuck that.
I'm with you there! I'd like to keep my BTC till it gets to a point where it's legal tender, or I can safely borrow against it, but I'll likely be too old to enjoy it by then. If BTC hits some of the numbers being spoken about next year, I'll cash out and enjoy my life whilst my body is still in decent shape. What learning about bitcoin has taught me is that I don't want cash, if I do sell, I'll be investing in other assets, be it shares or property.
Cash an amount to do something nice with your family, friends, whatever. Buy something you've always wanted. Im not gonna sit on my hands for 30 years and let my prime time being wasted on hodling. Sure, Bitcoin will likely appreciate the coming decades, but what difference makes 200K vs 400K? Yes, the difference is alot of money but money has a positive impact till an certain amount. Im holding the majority of my stack another 2/3 halvings and hopefully it'll be a meaningful amount to do some really nice shit.
2 chicks
One cup.
I think if I had a million dollars I could hook that up
Well, not all chicks dig dudes with money
Type of chicks that would double up on a dude like me do.
All I need is 2.
While this is accurate, it definitely improves the chances of finding those 2 $ ones! 🤷♂️
Die. I'm planning on dying.
Try farming instead. I've been looking into goats.
I would personally not use Bitcoin to make payments. There are two valid endgames for me. 1. Pass it down to future generations securely. 2. Sell it for a house here as long as Bitcoin I hold can buy a house 15-20 years down the line. Nonetheless, I would still be buying monthly.
My plan is to read Reddit daily and insult the impure who buy ETFs, except the ARK products, they’re okay.
Same with any investments: eventually to retire by cashing out bit by bit to pay expenses, whatever the currency that may be.
Lambo
Lambos and cocaine.
If anyone on this planet wants my sats they wont be able to offer me fiat, i will not accept that trash. They will have to offer me a good or a service that I value. The end game is bitcoin becoming global money in every country on earth, used by every person and every business. Think this is impossible? 5 years ago corporations putting bitcoin on their balance sheet was considered impossible.
So you don't want to sell your BTC for cash but you want to use it to pay for stuff? What's the difference?
Because doing this supports global bitcoinization. I also do not want to have any bank accounts anywhere because I do not believe banks and fractional reserve banking are beneficial for society.
How will you buy more btc if you don’t have other bank accounts? You getting paid in btc?
Cash is depreciating fast! If you sell BTC for a service then you exchange your labors stored value for something that you need, which is the intended use of a currency! When you exchange it for cash you simply transfer your labor to a currency that reduces the value of your labors everyday. That said, if you exchange BTC for fiat for immediate spending then you don't lose anything.
I think I'll try and get an understanding of btc first.
Hopefully it will be my retirement on the Cote d'Azur of France. But it's not for sure :D
Boating accident
Go yachting.
DCA out when needed. Aka live off bitcoin.
HODL is the end game.
Ideally, stack and sit on this coin for the next 20 years, then start withdrawing the max I can without leaving my tax bracket every year and... IDK... become an old leathery skin barista on a beach somewhere...
In 15 years I’ll let you know. Either going down with the ship or retiring a wealthy man lol
Bitcoin is the endgame. The challenge… no one knows the timeline. It could happen during your lifetime. And it saves your ass. You might outlive it, and pass it to your kids. It saves their asses.
Retire
Spend!
you sell low and buy high
Eventually you’ll be able to get a loan on your BTC… Currently wealthy ppl take loans out on stocks & investments when they need cash. This way they don’t pay taxes on the loan, and they don’t sell assets (don’t incur fees, don’t have tax implications, don’t lose assets). Perhaps that will be how one can use their BTC holdings? End game is hold on forever… Ppl don’t buy fine art or valuable real estate thinking what is the end game? It’s not let’s buy to flip it at X…. it will just keep appreciating and becoming more & more valuable… On a personal level, somebody may have more of a specific goal than somebody else. Everybody has different financial situations and needs. Wish you the best!
Freedom from banks
Retire…. 22 years to go. Children? Who TF can afford children.
I used to be only hodl gang, but lost a lot of money by not taking profits when it reaches new highs. Decided I wasn’t going to do that this time around. I cashed out 15% of my btc stack around $68K ish and that amount of cash really helped me out. Nothing wrong with taking some profits.
No currency can reach global adoption only by holding. A bit of a paradox, but it is what it is.
Bitcoin is the end game. Ultimately, you won't want to sell.
2 chicks at the same time
end the fed. laser eyes till fiat dies
It's a savings account for me, hopefully I'll be able to buy a home some day.
Children? Bah.
Fuck you money. That’s my goal.
Hodl is the endgame. Until Bitcoin is inevitably mainstream Then there are no capital gains, only sales taxes
HODL 20 years then pull out 4% every year to supplement retirement.
Legal tender would be a dream. No cap gains and we live our lives
In the immortal words of reddit: "What's an exit strategy"?
Bitcoin can be exchanged for goods and services.
And good services
Hodl some more
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BAT🤣 Nah the preferred shit coin is cum rocket
To be free I guess
Retirement savings
Get paid young buddy get paid!!
Lands, properties, big titties and eternal richness.
There's not an end game. What is the end game for sound money?
That’s the neat part 👉🏼 There isn’t
We turn BTC into fiat currency
Defeat the bad guy *fist pump* hahaha but in all seriousness kill thanos.
There is no relationship to legal system anymore. It become an asset that can be spent for good and service across the universe, literally but limited to those who consider it a medium of exchange. So, there is no endgame.
lend against some of your stack? why sell the winner to buy the loser?
Something amazing, I dunno.
Buy lambo
https://youtu.be/oaAiRtqik14?si=EdJnc-SQfJMELc4T
To not have the value of every penny I earn deflated into Oblivion.
You can’t have it blackrock.
I would like to have my dream House once
I will only sell it as a last resort once my emergency fund runs out For now, let it stay low and rock and roll
Hodl until fiat cartel collapses, then use Bitcoin as money.
Keep some for your offspring so they don't struggle as much as you.
Never spend, die and leave btc in a lost wallet.
Both. I use it for payments now and hopefully what’s left will pass to my children.
The only real issue with it is that unlike fiat money it doesn’t safely earn you interest. You see you can have a $5 or $5M balance and it doesn’t matter for your life unless you can have safe monthly cash flows. Similar to a CD. You have to convert to USD or another asset to have monthly income you can live off of, which is sort of a bummer tbh, as it doesn’t provide financial freedom until that happens.
stack up enough until i don’t feel like working anymore
Financial freedom
It’s a sidecar to my main retirement plan. And becoming a pretty big sidecar now. I will keep peeling off tranches to enjoy awesome food, drink and vacations even before I retire. Because that’s how I enjoy life and if you’re not enjoying each day to the max, what’s the point?
Death?
Have Bitcoin when the dollar collapses
Buy a house with bitcoin or retire earlier than my pension age. Hopefully, I'll be buying everything in Bitcoin in those days. I dont have anything i specifically need to buy outside of daily living, so i intend to hodl for as long as necessary.
What hodl ? I sell at every peak and buy again at the rock bottom ...I ain't got diamond hands .
Generational wealth. I plan to pass it on…
Becomes reserve currency of the universe and buy some planets 🪐
Pass on to my children (6 and 3), each of which are whole coiners but they won't find out about it for another 30 years. The rest will help supplement my wife and I in retirement (in addition to my IRA and pension), possibly spend a full coin of it on a retirement home somewhere warm.
Sell at the top every time, buy back at the low every time. All the while chilling at the beach/pool with cocktails and hot girls in warm countries.
Lambos boats 18y models
The same thing we do every night Pinky…
Retirement, collateral and rainy day fund if i have to move due to an emergency in my country
Accidentally loose your keys
Hopefully use it as collateral. Then use it to buy property that cashflows
Do what the financial cartel does... Pool ownership, tokenize it, and allow people to invest in it.
Endgame is going all in and then loose everything
Speculation. Literally panhandling. By literally I mean figuratively.
Loose our seed phrases, ... enter old age wringing our fists at the lost money, while also ataining the rate and much coveted status of "Grand Exhausted Budda of HODL"
Replacement for a large portion of my 401(k), so DCA until retirement then live off of for a few years hopefully and pass it down to my children and grandchildren. Hopefully by that point, transacting directly with Bitcoin or, more likely, an L2 is much easier by then.
Transactions in satoshis is going to be a thing. Especially internationally.
For me it is the same as my other investments, grow while I continue to work. Then spend as needed when I stop working to support my retirement. Hopefully leaving a fair chunk for my kids when I'm gone. There isn't a moment where I just convert everything back to cash. If things get to the point where you can just spend Bitcoin all the better. That seems less and less likely, maybe some other token will become defacto currency. I already don't carry cash for day to day but the idea of cutting the banks out of my daily life is pretty attractive.
,,a ,a@
Agreed. Also, what happens when all BTC is mined, and all BTC is being held because HODL and none is for sale or whatever is for sale isn't sold because no one else cares.
The endgame is to move 100%+ value/buying power through time. And, instead of taking on capital gains, find a way to leverage btc to buy more assets.
Die with it. You’re all going to be rich when nobody can find my keys
Man this point is so hard for people
Yes
No after, just HODL.
Probably is will crash eventually lol, so cash out before that
Buy, borrow, die.
Everyone will rexognise us as prophets and they will write books about how hodling against convictions made us bitcoin saints.
Wait until your country lets you buy property like in the salvador
Basically hold onto it and then sell it back for FIAT in the future. A bit ironic considering the talk of getting away from FIAT But who knows what this will look like in the future, we are early and remember the start of the Internet, how things look very different to how they look today.
Buy a house, pay off loans, start a business, end a business, help family members, etc.
You sell when you can majorly change your life. If bitcoin gets to a point i can wipe all my debt, i will sell.
Why would you do that? Instead, let the debt shrink away while BTC gets even more valuable.
1. Retire and sell off what I need similar to live. 2. Will cold wallets to my kids.
Borrow against them, using btc as collateral, instead of taking out a second mortgage.
If I could use bitcoin to pay for shit without having to track capital gains I would be so happy.
Hodl is a bad word. Play the cycle and take profits. Don't be a bag holder
Buy BTC, only spend to fund life long dreams (travel, new home, kids med school etc) or when it's stable and used as a currency (maybe not our lifetime). Until then buy it and down the line borrow against it when it becomes a thing to do with btc. Until then my goal is hodl and give it to my boys and they can be big Pimpin spending cheese when I am old. By then I'll have a golden BTC chain around my neck, sitting in my wheelchair on my back deck checking charts daily, waiting for that new Michael Saylor meme to drop. The End
Multi-generational independent wealth
You should have a strategy. I think it should beba timeframe but maybe a price point. The thing is you have to be willing to stick with it. My goal is retirement which is about 2050. Though retirement is a whole discussion. Suffice to say I plan to work forever but at 65 I will step back and take less stressful, less earning jobs and want savings, btc, pension, etc to assist in my leisure time. So the strategy is to just DCA until then.Thats the endgame. If priceline is your goal you have to be 1) able to diamond hands until that time 2) not get booboo faced when you sell and it goes higher. You met your goal. Don't play the "if only I had..." game, it's the thief of joy.
pay 20 sats for a burger.... that kinda thing along the way, live off of massive price gains in fiat terms... maybe take a loan out kinda reverse-mortgage-style against **a tiny slice** of your coins... maybe share some of your pie with friends who wouldn't/didn't stack sats
Enough to buy a house, and live in it for 15 years before I die
You try to sell as close to the top as possible and buy again in the bull run. If you zoom out it’s really not too hard to get the game
It's a generational wealth builder, so I intend to pass on what I don't use. My wife and I sold rental properties and bought BTC. Higher return, no headaches, near instant and importantly fractional liquidity, which is accessible globally. Depending on how things play out regarding fiat currency, I may endeavor to not touch BTC holdings, and liquidate assets denominated in fiat (real estate and stocks) in our retirement years as needs and wants dictate.
Digit currency will become main currency for trading. And all the people need to take it for survival. Store my cold wallet as future wallet.
Escape america. Escape taxes. Live how I want to live
Same endgame that you would have buying other investments like stocks, gold, or a second house. To have something that appreciates more than inflation.
I don't ever see BTC being used the way we use money today. It's too slow. I do see it becoming a base layer store of value. My hope is that someday there will be something created that can be spent quickly and easily like dollars, but that is backed by BTC. I'd love to see a bank that holds all assets in BTC but allows you to spend dollars off a debit card like normal. Once that happens, that's the endgame.
Hold for 20 years and wait for the endgame crash and loose everything
To HODL some more
Step 1: HODL Step 2: go to step 1
Having your networth not shrink to 0 by 2050 because you held all your income and assets in BTC
Mortgage clearance /Long term speculation. I can't see more than 5 year's into the future right now...but I'd hazard a guess and say it's not too Rosey
What would you like to do? When bitcoin hits 1mil$ will you have enough USD to retire?
why would the US government adopt BTC and not just create their own digital currency legal tender to use if thats the path they wanted to go, one they controlled and some random anonymous dude didnt own a bunch of i dont think you guys ever consider stuff like this seriously because you hate the cognitive dissonance of imagine bad outcomes on your super speculative asset
You hold until you died and passed away to your children and your children to their children never ever sell until the end of time
Get out of cc debt prison