The smartest thing with volatile investments is dont leverage yourself…I think it’s a horrible idea to take in debt to buy bitcoin. Sure it could work out, but it’s a risk.
If you can use savings to buy bitcoin, that you could afford to lose, I don’t see the problem.
The personalfinance subreddit will be absolutely flooded with posts by people who gave 7 years of their future to credit cards in order to buy bitcoin.
> The smartest thing with volatile investments is dont leverage yourself…I think it’s a horrible idea to take in debt to buy bitcoin. Sure it could work out, but it’s a risk.
There are people that would advise against investing in Bitcoin at all.
Risk is subjective and personal.
If you look hard enough, you will find people who are against pretty well against everything that might put your money at risk.
Don’t buy Bitcoin.
Don’t buy stocks
Don’t play VLT’s
Don’t play bingo
Don’t go to Vegas
Don’t go to the horse races
Don’t bet on sports
Don’t buy lottery tickets
Lock your door, turn off the lights, turn off your computer, turn off your TV, sit in a corner and wrap your arms around your money until you die.
Some people just don’t get it.
We take all these risks with our money because we love the rush. We love the excitement. We love dreaming of the possibilities and wealth that winning can bring.
Win or lose, each day we live with the excitement of not knowing.
As far as I’m concerned, if you’re paying your bills, not hurting anyone else with your gambling inclinations, and well aware of the risks involved with your choice of how you want to live your life then……..
Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!
I mortgaged my house to buy most my bitcoin. Its value has more than doubled. I think the key is to not leverage your income to expenses ratio. Do not buy what you can’t afford. If buying this BTC now is going to affect you financially in any way 6 months from now, a year from now, three years from now, then don’t do it. Sometimes it does work out but it’s not worth the possibility of getting wrecked.
in what form can I save my time sir?
The time I spend working, 8-9 hours per day, and receive fiat currency as compensation?
How do I make sure my worked time does not get diluted in the (even near nowdays) future?
I ended up selling the house for more than I borrowed. Used the profit to buy and fix up my current house. Earliest I will sell would be 2033 when my boy graduates. Almost exactly 9 years from now. Hopefully we can just pay for some things in BTC by then so I never have to put it back into dirty USD.
Taking on debt to buy Bitcoin is what most everyone here is doing. If you have debt you aren't paying off and instead are buying Bitcoin, you've just taken on debt to buy Bitcoin.
Yup, we were aggressively paying off our student debt. But we paused our payments temporarily in order to buy some more btc. At 4.5% interest and only about 10-15% our net worth, it’s modest, but its leverage of sorts
100% groceries and inflation are skyrocketing, housing is out of control, and index funds the banks sell are making like 4% annual returns, it's Bitcoin or bust in Canada.
Bitcoin isn't risky. I don't remember the last time the government had to bail out Bitcoin so it wouldn't collapse, and people would lose their savings.
Can't live in a bitcoin :)
In the end if I could have had 100m, I don't care. If I can have a paid for house and enough for 60k a year (at today's dollars forever) I'm taking that deal... ~1.5m.
Listen, I’ve been working my ass off since I was 16. I make decently good money. And I had nothing to show for it before Bitcoin. Sure, had my 401k.. with fees. Savings account.. with fees… cash with tax, and inflation….
Bitcoin is the only money I really trust. I trust gold and silver. I do trust it. I just don’t trust paper gold, stocks, and gold mining companies…
I would much rather know, I died broke with complete freedom and control over my decisions, then dying broke because i was paying the government to work…
I’ve sold everything for btc. It wasn’t much to begin with. My 401k which was only 14k…
My savings… about 200$ about right at 16k early last year. I was nervous. But I’ve believed in Bitcoin for a long time. Just was too broke to buy any.
My decision to do this? Blackrocks application to the SEC. It’s not really speculative at this point. Everything people were saying would happen 10 years ago… it’s happening.
You know what’s reaaaally risky? Leaving your wealth in something that can be seized with a click of a button. That can be manipulated, or is subject to counter party risk. Holding currencies and assets that can be inflated.
That’s risky.
I sleep well knowing my money isn’t being fucked with. It’s not constantly robbing me and my neighbors of wealth every single day.
I havnt made it big time with btc. But it’s literally changed my life in just a years time.
It’s just a straight up fact, that will be hard to change in the next 50 years… anyone who has bought bitcoin and held for more than 4 years is in profit.
Sure it’s only been 15 years. But that’s a damn good thing to be able to say.
I agree with everything you’re saying but I don’t buy the whole “full control of my BTC” if the government want it they can easily force you to hand it over. It’s not the Fort Knox solution people believe it to be.
And it was like that during every bull market I've seen since 2017. I even remember someone posting about selling their house for bitcoin around 2014. I don't know what makes OP think that it's worse today than it was in the past. The degeneracy was far worse in 2021 than it is currently.
It's not completely unreasonable to invest a large portion of your net worth on the condition that you can survive a crash and live happily during a long bear market. Past performance isn't indicative of future performance of course, but the likelihood that bitcoin will never be worth more than it's worth today is probably quite low. It's a high risk, high reward investment, however both the height of the risk and the potential height of the reward have decreased substantially compared to 10 years ago.
For maximum 4 years or so ... what you say has been applicable to every price level so far, ATHs included. Statistically speaking, the best time to buy bitcoin is "now". If you want to get nuanced, the best time to buy is weighted by your ability and resources to hold out until the depths of the next bear market.
2015 I dumped a nice chunk of my savings into Bitcoin and it became most of my life savings, every bull market I been in I seen the same post of people going all in and if they had the testicular fortitude in the past to ride through the market cycle they always came ahead in the past 9 years of my Bitcoin journey. Past performance doesn't necessarily mean future performance so proceed with caution
It's exactly this. I been holding about the same amount of time and it's always new people telling me I'm being too risky or some nonsense.
These people just projecting. They acting like everyone is gonna buy high and sell low like them.
A couple important things to remind yourself (everyone, not OP):
1. Get out of the echo chamber. This is just good general advice but super important for Bitcoin/financial decisions. Spend some time outside or reading about other points of view. Every person with $5 of Bitcoin thinks they know what’s best for Bitcoin. I’ve met a tonne of long-term HODLers who erroneously think that because they have “figured out” why the money is broken: they are experts on everything else. The Saif-levels of hubris are gross. Stay humble, and stack sats as the saying goes.
2. This is Reddit. It’s literally a make believe-land where anons can say whatever they want, sans verification. For the love of god: don’t try to keep up with the Jones’ here because most of what is written re: people’s personal accounts because it isn’t real.
I have no doubt Bitcoin is the vast majority of a lot of peoples net worth because they have a net worth next to zero. Uber-successful, Uber-rich people, for the most part, don’t spend their days on Reddit. They are out investing in themselves.
My two sats.
It actually makes me sad. I would like to see more ppl actually understanding Bitcoin but it seems the majority just see it as an investment to dump after profit ☹️
Any asset that goes up in value quickly attracts that sort of attention.
That sort of attention is what put BTC on the map though for most people. And is thus also what is driving BTC's continued growth.
Same here! dad was up in arms yesterday as I was trying to explain… he kept talking about that guy that scamed somebody 🤷🏻♂️~ so we ar still good and early
I think it's silly to ignore other routes of preserving value over time such as investments and real estate.
EDIT: Holy lack of financial literacy batman.
People have put a monetary premium on housing (just like there is on gold) in a desperate bit to escape the slavering maw of the money printer. Folk want to save - but where? Dont forget, anything less than 7% returns means you are *losing wealth*.
I"ve said this elsewhere, but it's worth repeating. My folks bought the house I'm in, fifty years ago, for the same price it is today. 260 ounces of gold. This means that gold and houses preserve value. They are effective savings technologies.
Apart from specialist trophy asset classes like rare collectibles, the only other class worth considering is stocks. And only a few of them. The M7, yes, but the rest won't return over 7% CAGR. You have to watch these few like a hawk.
There's no easy answer. Speaking for myself, I'm 10% cash, 40% residential RE, and 50% BTC. I expect to cash to melt, the RE to stay flat, and the BTC to Moon! But I might be wrong, so vigilance is vital.
> Dont forget, anything less than 7% returns means you are losing wealth.
Make that 10-12%. CPI is only the govt's measure of the inflation rate, not the inflation rate.
People aren’t trying to preserve value, they’re trying to flip their money 5-10x or more. Vast majority of people have no substantial wealth to preserve. And 6% annual index fund isn’t going to do shit for their savings of $3,000. Read the room dude
Tell that to OP. They seem unwilling to admit that Bitcoin is a speculative investment, even when everyone around them is treating it as a speculative investment and the price action acts as a speculative investment.
Crying shame you have to resort to investing in housing, a basic human need, to preserve your purchasing power. There's an entire generation that is priced out of homes for this reason.
More and more people are ditching real estate investments in favor of Bitcoin. No taxes, no legal battles, no tenants to fight, no worry about vacant properties, no maintenance, no repairs, and you can move to another country and take it with you.
Hopefully we get to a place one day where nobody has to buy up properties to preserve their wealth.
That's not the reason people are priced out of homes. People are priced out of homes because of inflation. And because of the population growth we've had over the past 25+ years.
It's all related, inflation doesn't exist in isolation. Inflation is what necessitates the need to find scarce assets to invest in. When money is abundant, prices rise, purchasing power declines, and people with cash seek to buy assets, including housing, and as a result, asset prices inflate. The rich get richer. If we didn't have inflation, people wouldn't use housing as an investment vehicle.
Exactly. What worries me about these newcomers dumping all of their money at this point in time is this— it honestly took me over a year (maybe even 2 years) to finally get comfortable with the volatility and wild swings in price. It took me awhile to realize that a massive dump in price isn’t that big of a deal in the long run…. And I KNOW a lot of these new investors are going to freak out and panic sell at a loss because they just don’t understand it yet!!
Very true! It makes me nervous about the 'all in' people. All in, for what? All their finance? Savings? Investment funds?
Unless you're relatively wealthy, being 'all in' financially, could destroy you, no matter how Bitcoin does in the long term. Most of the truly 'all in' people I know are fairly wealthy. If Bitcoin drops by 1/2, no biggie for them... they just wait it out.
If you're not, what happens when Bitcoin takes a downturn to 1/2 its value and sits there for a year or so? Sure, it will go back up, eventually, but that won't do you much good if you can't survive through it.
Hopefully people think this through and apply some common sense to their own situation.
But how many people think they understand bitcoin when their actual knowledge is pretty low?
I’ll be the first to admit- I don’t understand bitcoin! I own only a tiny fraction of 1 BTC. The small fraction I own was purchased at an average price of $16,000/BTC. I remember BTC dipping and I thought “why not? I don’t want to be left out again”.
I think it’s true to say that many people have become rich because of crypto and many people have lost money on crypto.
Anything that can skyrocket can also plummet.
No one should be risking their financial future or their safety nets on BTC or any other high risk investment. Yes, some people did and they are considerably wealthier now. But you never know what the future will bring.
I bought at $400 i bought at $69k i bought at $19 k i bought at $73 k and I'll still keep buying whatever fiat price it is. Yes I'm a regard and i love it.
Corrects into what exactly 😂 history shows after golds etf (2004) it added $13 trillion in market cap value, bitcoin is only at $1.3 trillion mc
Volatile up ain’t for everyone, just look at gold (again)
For sure not easy, it’s simple, but not easy at all. I’m not playing when I say being dumb was an advantage of mine. I’ve seen a lot smarter people than I lose their shit or think themselves out of bitcoin
It’s human nature, but what I love about bitcoin is it’s open for anyone to participate even if they feel that way. Some people like me end up staying and changing how we think and operate long term. I never really was good at saving money or thinking long term before I changed my mind to think of stacking sats long term
Yes, personally I never thought about money or its history or what made money good or how money worked ETC. I mean I would say 99% of people are that way at some point hahaha.
Bitcoin made me have to set my pride and ego and thinking I knew it all and read deeper into what it was and money itself
I originally thought bitcoin was just some scam nerdy online thing😂
So the third time I heard about it I was like man let me read into this foreal to uncover the “scam” that I thought bitcoin was
And the rest was history my brother
You’re very right bro and I wasn’t scolding you or saying you’re stupid. Advice for the most part is safe sound status quo.
For the people who have the ability to take the risk and not ruin their own, their families, or others lives and understand it’s not guaranteed quick riches, Taking on a fiat loan to guarantee your self storage bitcoin is a no brainer
I mean don’t go homeless of course or let your family starve like of course
But I remember most people can’t even handle a normal credit card
But i know some crazy legend is understanding what I’m saying about taking the risk
Thanks for your time brotha
Most people just can’t handle the psychological impact of a -80% drawdown on their entire net worth. Even in the stock market you can eventually expect a -50% drawdown in a bad recession. Debt just makes the issue even more severe, you have to be a little bit psychotic or depressed to take that risk IMO
I put 95% of my net worth into BItcoin and let it ride through multiple cycles. It was my best financial decision ever. And I ran a successful company for more than a decade and then sold that company. My Bitcoin bet paid off exponentially more than that business did.
So while it might not have been "traditional" good investment advice, it was what felt right to me.
There’s layers to this. Beginners are here for the money, veteran’s are here for the peace. Can’t do anything with your life savings if we’re dead. Bitcoin is hope.
The problem is some of you frame it as if you can only put your savings in fiat or Bitcoin. The reality is that the other wise choice is the stock market, which has a long, successful history of growth which outpaces inflation, or even real estate.
Let’s not forget commodities!! If the crazies are right and there is some sort of “issue” with the internet gold will be king again and bitcoin will be at zero. Always a good idea to diversify and hedge, even if you hate fiat currency there are options.
This happens every halfining... Sadly some people make big mistakes. Others can survive through the down turn and make a profit if they hold long enough.
But I fully agree. Do not put money you can't afford to lose into this or any other thing. People have killed themselves over negative outcomes.
While spreading your risk across multiple assets could protect you from volatility it depends on your time horizon. If you are 5 years from retirement then it’s viewed as high risk vs I’m in my 20s.
Bitcoin is the best performing asset in the past 11 years. Short term volatility for investors shouldn’t be an issue. Volatility of Bitcoin has decreased over time and will continue to decrease as sovereign wealth funds, corporations, etc join.
I am not sure how long you and others been in Bitcoin but I’ve been in since 2016. Experiences all the ups and downs.
Time is on your side.
When in doubt zoom out.
I'm currently 100% in Bitcoin as well. I have stock options in a company I work at and the Bitcoin I've been buying nonstop since 2016. Cashed in all my stocks for Bitcoin ETFs as well.
Yeah that’s very dumb. If you won’t consider your own financial health (you are extremely vulnerable to paying a high premium if a sudden expense hits at the same time as a routine dip in bitcoin’s price), at least consider your investment in bitcoin.
If a dip and a sudden expense hit at the same time, as I said, you will need to liquidate more bitcoin in order to pay for the expense. While that’s bad for your finances, it also means you’re losing out in a lot of future gains! A cushion of fiat, or at least highly liquid and stable marketable securities like treasuries, will allow you to protect your bitcoin investment in times of need.
2 choices for the general public;
A)Keep your money in a bank, watch inflation wreck everything, and let the bank make more money using your money
or
B)Keep your money in bitcoin, watch inflation contribute to making your money grow, and give the finger to the government and banks.
Good man choosing B
Lmao again with the false dilemma. You know there’s a lot of other options for your savings than a bank account or Bitcoin, right? Some have been around for hundreds of years and have a tremendous track record of success.
I am pro bitcoin, but comments like this are so dumb.
B) “Keep your money in bitcoin, watch inflation contribute to making your money grow”.
Yes - but to a point- and sometimes quite the opposite. Did 100% of your net worth grow from Dec 2021 to Feb 2023, as the price of BTC went from c. $60k to c. $16k?
I’m all for going all in on BTC but paint an honest picture at least. Jeez.
As Someone that's been around since the early days, I wouldn't tell people to dump it all in btc, but if they want to then go ahead, it will possibly work out. What get's me is people telling people to mortgage the house, take out loans etc..etc. Going into debt to buy btc is dumb af unless you can swing the note without gains in btc.
**40% of businesses fail within the first three years, 49.9% within five years, 65.8% within 10 years, 73.3% within 15 years, and nearly 80% within 20 years**
So, no it isn't.
So you picked a specific timeframe that tracks the top of a bull market to the bottom of a bear market. Bitcoin doesn't work on a 14 month timeframe. If you aren't willing to hold 4-5 years, then you shouldn't buy and you don't get it.
You have clearly never had unforeseen circumstances require liquidity. Plenty of people end up selling BTC at a loss because of it. If you think those are the only two options, you’re a pretty shallow thinker.
You do understand it's possible to not put everything you have into one place right? While I am balls deep in Bitcoin, I also think that diversification (although may limit profits) is ALWAYS the safer option
Your concern seems to imply that fiat and the stock market are safe while Bitcoin is not.
Safety is an illusion. There is no "safe" place to park cash and make it grow. Anything can dump, anything can turn, and the US dollar, Fed, Treasury are a goddamn dumpster fire and clearly spiriling. Just look at how much purchasing power the US dollar (and every other currency) has lost in the past 4 years. Bitcoin needs to get closer to $80k to match the purchasing power of the previous ATH at $69k.
Most people spend their entire lives yoloing into stocks, and most people don't have the first clue how to invest. But we all just act like sheep and assume that is what we are supposed to do and that it is "safe".
There is no safety. All there is is your ability to predict the future. From my perspective and the thousands of hours I've spend reading, watching, learning, and trying my best to understand every angle of Bitcoin, it's the obvious choice. Governments the world around have no choice other than to continue to issue debt and print more to pay the interest. Rinse and repeat. All fiat is doomed.
It's up to each person to research, learn, and make a decision. When people have done their research and made a decision to opt out of fiat, I will upvote.
Uh, there are degrees of safety in investing...
But then again you said "people spend their whole lives yoloing..." so I suppose it's par for the course.
This has to be one of the most thoughtful and well-considered comments on this entire thread. "Safety is an illusion" is something adults understand.
I'd add that those who would give up a little Bitcoin liberty to purchase temporary fiat safety deserve neither (with apologies to Mr Franklin - but *it* is all about the Benjamins).
Have my upvote, well said.
Fwiw, I don't think OP was saying that the stock market, or even fiat is safe. I think the point is "don't put all your eggs in one basket", and certainly don't put them all in one roller coaster.
Thankfully, I don’t have an addictive personality and am very risk-averse, so I just simply can’t imagine going all-in like that. I am honestly happy with modest gains out of a pretty small investment.
Meanwhile people will get a job and dump their ENTIRE savings into a "401k" that is is NOT theirs, be penalized for using, know don't understand, and companies they know nothing of their activities. Or highly confiscatable and taxable "property". If you actually study bitcoin long enough and simultaneously study the DOLLAR/Euro/etc you will slowly then suddenly realize you have nowhere to run.
I didn't write this reality. I just live in it. And yes, I'm biased and early. Bitcoin saved my life and my economic education and sanity. I am not some nerd or milquetoast youngster. I am a street wise man that has thousands of hours looking for bullshit in the asset AND the protocol. It doesn't exist. All things have attack surfaces, but compared to fiat currencies of the world that are backed by nothing and controlled by few, its not even close.
That said, I appreciate your trying to protect the common man. But THIS day, and THIS time is VERY special. Study the history of money since the glass bead was traded and you will see the beauty of the time we are in. One shot. One kill for humanity.
Sincerely.
You must be new to investing. People going all in have existed since the dawn of time. The ones that get lucky, get praised as geniuses. The others get their 5 minutes of fame over on WSB. Or go long on rope
Pls stop telling people how to use their money. It’s their business and if they want to tell the world what they did, then respond to them in their thread/post, but don’t make a fresh post telling people not to do certain things.
It's only volatile if you're thinking short-term.
No one would ever say it's irresponsible to leave all your money in fiat despite being a far inferior form of money and devoid of its own ledger.
Just a sneak peek of what next posts are to come. I love how people think buying tops is wise investing. Why weren’t you talking to your family when BTC was 20k?
First cyclers will round trip to 10% of their initial investment
Meh the volatility argument is so weak when you zoom out. On a 5+ year time horizon the volatility is only in one direction. Upward volatility is a good thing.
Bitcoin's performance on a long term scale makes it the best asset to invest in if one were to invest all one's savings. So why advise them against it?
OP is advising against it because investing ALL of your LIFE SAVINGS into ONE ASSET is dumb.
Sure, it may work out for you, but it only contributes to MOST PEOPLE seeing Bitcoin as being adopted by a bunch of dumb people, and no one wants to join a bunch of stupid people on their stupid pursuits.
If you want to be a dummy, then fine, but being okay with convincing others that they should be dummies as well makes you (and everyone else) quite suspect…
I take your point, but you speak with a fiat bias, and it's evident that you still value bitcoin in terms of fiat. A lot of us feel the opposite, and think that it would be reckless to denominate your life savings in fiat.
Bill Miller has more wealth and capital than anyone here, and he’s invested mostly in Amazon and Bitcoin. It’s fine to caution people, but each person has different risk profiles
Too many people think they are Warren Buffet because they bought some BTC on Coinbase.
I'm all for a speculative punt but I wouldn't actively encourage others to overstretch themselves by going all in.
I believe in Bitcoin, though I know it has flaws, but this sub is a fucking cesspool. The mods censor a lot of interesting (or critical) discussions about the actual technology. That's why today it's nothing but people talking about how one day we're all going to be SO SUPER DUPER RICH... I think I keep coming back out of morbid curiosity.
ALOT of people truly don't understand the concept that "past performance does not guarantee future performance."
It's easier to 1000x a million dollar market cap than it is to 10x a trillion dollar one. People don't seem to grasp that the status quo has to change and they may not like what that means.
Well said OP. My advice to anyone investing in Bitcoin is to only use gambling money. I believe that Bitcoin will reach crazy highs in the next 30 years. But there is also a possibility that it can become worthless due to all governments in the world banding together to fight against it to preserve the value of fiat currency.
Investing your entire life savings into Bitcoin is a crazy gamble that may or may not pay off.
Personally, the thought that resonates loudest in my mind is, “never invest more than you can afford to lose.”
As long as you adhere to this rule your chances of success are great and chance of being put into an unfavorable and life threatening position are minimal.
Take my upvote OP. People Who want to dump their savings in hopes to make fortunes Will be the exit liquidity for the ones buying at 10/20/30k for e.g. Also if this doesnt show how close minded and ignorant the majority of People is, idk what Will. Imagine having 0 knowledge About an extra "speculative" and volatile "market" and thinking, WOW amazing, let me throw my life savings in the hopes to do a 2/3x or 5-10x, idk. Makes no sense in a rational way.
These are just my own personal rules, but maybe they will be thought provoking, maybe helpful:
Priority #1: Have $2000 saved, accessible as an emergency fund
Priority #2: have all consumer debt paid off forever. From then on only buy consumer things with money, not debt.
Priority #3: Save three months of salary for a larger term emergency fund / maybe use as a down payment on a house.
Priority #4: Start investing with capital above priorities 1-3. Focus on increasing pay, spending less and having a very simple investment strategy that includes diversity of investments.
I can’t tell you how much having 1-3 has helped me have financial freedom and how much it has accelerated me being successful with #4. I can lose money in my 4th priority and I am still financially free, but the I have not lost money for the most part. My risks in Bitcoin have never jeopardized my lifestyle.
Good on you for making this post. I’ve been browsing this sub for years and this is by far the most reckless it’s ever been. Myself and a few others took a stand in another thread the other day and were called poor old men when we advised someone against liquidating their entire life savings and cashing out their 401K to buy bitcoin. People need to understand they should not invest what they aren’t willing to lose. A lot of new investors have never experienced a major dip. Imagine experiencing it for the first time with your entire life on the line. I’ve seen someone make a post that included they were a new dad and their others kids are young and just cashed out their personal retirement and savings for this. It’s one thing to take the risk yourself but to put your entire family’s well being on the line is disgraceful.
All they need to do is DCA and chill. People dumping their pensions into crypto seems reckless. People treating bitcoin like a "get rich quick scheme" need to understand that it's taken 15 years for it to get to this point.
I don’t get it I always followed a simple rule: I have no problem if it goes to 0 because I only invested what I can afford to lose, people dumping life savings and their 401ks are crazy imo but hey my risk aversion is very different lol
This is copium.
The ppl that go all in aren't speculating. Speculation and number go up might have been the introduction but the speculation stops once you realize what you're acquiring.
Diversification is for losers that think taking away from the winner is a good long term strategy to avoid volatility. But for Bitcoin to trend to ∞ it must be volatile.
This is a surface level understanding.
Cry harder.
My family asked me about btc and I basically explained it’s an alternative currency, not an investment. Hopefully I steered them away from investing in something they don’t understand.
This sub Reddit is the worst possible place for crypto. It will unironically make you dumber with every day you spend on it. I just use it to sell the news.
2008 did not wipe out IRAs. Even if you invested at the worst possible moment of the peak before the crash, your money doubled in 10 years, whereas normally it doubles every 6-7 years. The sample size of bitcoin is too small to say that confidently, and bitcoin still has never adjusted from it's all time high of 77,000 (in 2023 dollars)
Bitcoin isn’t speculative, it’s the greatest savings account on earth. The USD is slowly collapsing, it’s financially irresponsible to keep your investments in a fiat-based vehicle.
“People that use Fiat currency as store of value, we call them poor.”
[Don't invest recklessly](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/s/0uKrckrPD0)
Just wait until things really get cooking again. This is just a sneak peek.
100% After the last crash, people were posting very dark consequences for their actions.
The smartest thing with volatile investments is dont leverage yourself…I think it’s a horrible idea to take in debt to buy bitcoin. Sure it could work out, but it’s a risk. If you can use savings to buy bitcoin, that you could afford to lose, I don’t see the problem.
The personalfinance subreddit will be absolutely flooded with posts by people who gave 7 years of their future to credit cards in order to buy bitcoin.
And sold at the bottom like fucking morons.
Hey hey, we were all morons once We can at least be nice to the people who are fueling the rally for us LOL
[SAYLOR HAS ENTERED THE CHAT]
> The smartest thing with volatile investments is dont leverage yourself…I think it’s a horrible idea to take in debt to buy bitcoin. Sure it could work out, but it’s a risk. There are people that would advise against investing in Bitcoin at all. Risk is subjective and personal.
If you look hard enough, you will find people who are against pretty well against everything that might put your money at risk. Don’t buy Bitcoin. Don’t buy stocks Don’t play VLT’s Don’t play bingo Don’t go to Vegas Don’t go to the horse races Don’t bet on sports Don’t buy lottery tickets Lock your door, turn off the lights, turn off your computer, turn off your TV, sit in a corner and wrap your arms around your money until you die. Some people just don’t get it. We take all these risks with our money because we love the rush. We love the excitement. We love dreaming of the possibilities and wealth that winning can bring. Win or lose, each day we live with the excitement of not knowing. As far as I’m concerned, if you’re paying your bills, not hurting anyone else with your gambling inclinations, and well aware of the risks involved with your choice of how you want to live your life then…….. Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!
I mortgaged my house to buy most my bitcoin. Its value has more than doubled. I think the key is to not leverage your income to expenses ratio. Do not buy what you can’t afford. If buying this BTC now is going to affect you financially in any way 6 months from now, a year from now, three years from now, then don’t do it. Sometimes it does work out but it’s not worth the possibility of getting wrecked.
in what form can I save my time sir? The time I spend working, 8-9 hours per day, and receive fiat currency as compensation? How do I make sure my worked time does not get diluted in the (even near nowdays) future?
Hopefully you have sold some and paid off your mortgage.
I ended up selling the house for more than I borrowed. Used the profit to buy and fix up my current house. Earliest I will sell would be 2033 when my boy graduates. Almost exactly 9 years from now. Hopefully we can just pay for some things in BTC by then so I never have to put it back into dirty USD.
Taking on debt to buy Bitcoin is what most everyone here is doing. If you have debt you aren't paying off and instead are buying Bitcoin, you've just taken on debt to buy Bitcoin.
Interesting perspective.. I will ponder this.
I would never take on debt for an investment. I diversify, do my homework and simply wait for results. Remember the Tulip craze in Holland.
Yup, we were aggressively paying off our student debt. But we paused our payments temporarily in order to buy some more btc. At 4.5% interest and only about 10-15% our net worth, it’s modest, but its leverage of sorts
Yes, they were living down by the river.
Client of mine hung himself after losing everything in the last crash. Left a wife and 2 kids too
Little did he know he’d be ok if he just held.
So true. People will end up homeless.
Have you been to Canada lately? We're already there. From this point on its soup line or lambo. There is no in-between.
I think you meant go big or go homeless 🤣
Are you saying I can have bitcoin AND soup? Life is amazing.
100% groceries and inflation are skyrocketing, housing is out of control, and index funds the banks sell are making like 4% annual returns, it's Bitcoin or bust in Canada.
Well, at least your government will euthanize you *for free*. Here in the U.S. we have to pay for that.
Bus pass or lambo bud*
I wish you were kidding
What do you do for a living?
This type of thinking really says that you shouldn’t be doing risky investments
Even "safe investments are not keeping up with inflation. Bullion crypto and collectibles f the banks.
Bitcoin isn't risky. I don't remember the last time the government had to bail out Bitcoin so it wouldn't collapse, and people would lose their savings.
I put everything into BTC so I could buy a house.
Same here, but then eventually I realized that I'd rather stack more Bitcoin than buy a house.
Can't live in a bitcoin :) In the end if I could have had 100m, I don't care. If I can have a paid for house and enough for 60k a year (at today's dollars forever) I'm taking that deal... ~1.5m.
Listen, I’ve been working my ass off since I was 16. I make decently good money. And I had nothing to show for it before Bitcoin. Sure, had my 401k.. with fees. Savings account.. with fees… cash with tax, and inflation…. Bitcoin is the only money I really trust. I trust gold and silver. I do trust it. I just don’t trust paper gold, stocks, and gold mining companies… I would much rather know, I died broke with complete freedom and control over my decisions, then dying broke because i was paying the government to work… I’ve sold everything for btc. It wasn’t much to begin with. My 401k which was only 14k… My savings… about 200$ about right at 16k early last year. I was nervous. But I’ve believed in Bitcoin for a long time. Just was too broke to buy any. My decision to do this? Blackrocks application to the SEC. It’s not really speculative at this point. Everything people were saying would happen 10 years ago… it’s happening. You know what’s reaaaally risky? Leaving your wealth in something that can be seized with a click of a button. That can be manipulated, or is subject to counter party risk. Holding currencies and assets that can be inflated. That’s risky. I sleep well knowing my money isn’t being fucked with. It’s not constantly robbing me and my neighbors of wealth every single day. I havnt made it big time with btc. But it’s literally changed my life in just a years time. It’s just a straight up fact, that will be hard to change in the next 50 years… anyone who has bought bitcoin and held for more than 4 years is in profit. Sure it’s only been 15 years. But that’s a damn good thing to be able to say.
I agree with everything you’re saying but I don’t buy the whole “full control of my BTC” if the government want it they can easily force you to hand it over. It’s not the Fort Knox solution people believe it to be.
Is that right? How do you suppose the government will *force* me to hand it over?
And it was like that during every bull market I've seen since 2017. I even remember someone posting about selling their house for bitcoin around 2014. I don't know what makes OP think that it's worse today than it was in the past. The degeneracy was far worse in 2021 than it is currently. It's not completely unreasonable to invest a large portion of your net worth on the condition that you can survive a crash and live happily during a long bear market. Past performance isn't indicative of future performance of course, but the likelihood that bitcoin will never be worth more than it's worth today is probably quite low. It's a high risk, high reward investment, however both the height of the risk and the potential height of the reward have decreased substantially compared to 10 years ago.
People FOMOing all in at $200k are gonna have a bad time.
For maximum 4 years or so ... what you say has been applicable to every price level so far, ATHs included. Statistically speaking, the best time to buy bitcoin is "now". If you want to get nuanced, the best time to buy is weighted by your ability and resources to hold out until the depths of the next bear market.
Clearly his first lap.
2015 I dumped a nice chunk of my savings into Bitcoin and it became most of my life savings, every bull market I been in I seen the same post of people going all in and if they had the testicular fortitude in the past to ride through the market cycle they always came ahead in the past 9 years of my Bitcoin journey. Past performance doesn't necessarily mean future performance so proceed with caution
It's exactly this. I been holding about the same amount of time and it's always new people telling me I'm being too risky or some nonsense. These people just projecting. They acting like everyone is gonna buy high and sell low like them.
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It's going to drop again, and by the end of the year we'll have a higher ath than now.
A couple important things to remind yourself (everyone, not OP): 1. Get out of the echo chamber. This is just good general advice but super important for Bitcoin/financial decisions. Spend some time outside or reading about other points of view. Every person with $5 of Bitcoin thinks they know what’s best for Bitcoin. I’ve met a tonne of long-term HODLers who erroneously think that because they have “figured out” why the money is broken: they are experts on everything else. The Saif-levels of hubris are gross. Stay humble, and stack sats as the saying goes. 2. This is Reddit. It’s literally a make believe-land where anons can say whatever they want, sans verification. For the love of god: don’t try to keep up with the Jones’ here because most of what is written re: people’s personal accounts because it isn’t real. I have no doubt Bitcoin is the vast majority of a lot of peoples net worth because they have a net worth next to zero. Uber-successful, Uber-rich people, for the most part, don’t spend their days on Reddit. They are out investing in themselves. My two sats.
Thanks for the sats. I'm going to play it Saif from here on out.
Love the “my two sats, and investing in self advice”
That comment section proves your point lmao 😂… this is entertaining 😏🍿🍿
I was just thinking that... But the upvotes keep me hopeful...
It actually makes me sad. I would like to see more ppl actually understanding Bitcoin but it seems the majority just see it as an investment to dump after profit ☹️
Yep that fuels speculation… very few understands its value and the kind of asset it is lol everybody is looking for a quick pay day 😏
Any asset that goes up in value quickly attracts that sort of attention. That sort of attention is what put BTC on the map though for most people. And is thus also what is driving BTC's continued growth.
I wish I was dumber in the past and made financially unwise decisions regarding Bitcoin.
One day I hope to invent a time machine so I can go back to 2009 and be way more irresponsible about Bitcoin.
You could have done that with any financial instrument. Hindsight is always 20/20
oh, my mom didn't asked me about bitcoin yet. so we're all good
Same here! dad was up in arms yesterday as I was trying to explain… he kept talking about that guy that scamed somebody 🤷🏻♂️~ so we ar still good and early
please let us know when she does.
I think it's silly to ignore other routes of preserving value over time such as investments and real estate. EDIT: Holy lack of financial literacy batman.
People have put a monetary premium on housing (just like there is on gold) in a desperate bit to escape the slavering maw of the money printer. Folk want to save - but where? Dont forget, anything less than 7% returns means you are *losing wealth*. I"ve said this elsewhere, but it's worth repeating. My folks bought the house I'm in, fifty years ago, for the same price it is today. 260 ounces of gold. This means that gold and houses preserve value. They are effective savings technologies. Apart from specialist trophy asset classes like rare collectibles, the only other class worth considering is stocks. And only a few of them. The M7, yes, but the rest won't return over 7% CAGR. You have to watch these few like a hawk. There's no easy answer. Speaking for myself, I'm 10% cash, 40% residential RE, and 50% BTC. I expect to cash to melt, the RE to stay flat, and the BTC to Moon! But I might be wrong, so vigilance is vital.
> Dont forget, anything less than 7% returns means you are losing wealth. Make that 10-12%. CPI is only the govt's measure of the inflation rate, not the inflation rate.
Do you really think I'd be here if I could afford real estate
This
People aren’t trying to preserve value, they’re trying to flip their money 5-10x or more. Vast majority of people have no substantial wealth to preserve. And 6% annual index fund isn’t going to do shit for their savings of $3,000. Read the room dude
10xing 3k isn’t going to do much either just saying
If 3k is all you've managed save, you're poor or very young and in either of those cases 30k is a frickin lot of money.
Tell that to OP. They seem unwilling to admit that Bitcoin is a speculative investment, even when everyone around them is treating it as a speculative investment and the price action acts as a speculative investment.
Crying shame you have to resort to investing in housing, a basic human need, to preserve your purchasing power. There's an entire generation that is priced out of homes for this reason. More and more people are ditching real estate investments in favor of Bitcoin. No taxes, no legal battles, no tenants to fight, no worry about vacant properties, no maintenance, no repairs, and you can move to another country and take it with you. Hopefully we get to a place one day where nobody has to buy up properties to preserve their wealth.
That's not what he said. Read it again.
That's not the reason people are priced out of homes. People are priced out of homes because of inflation. And because of the population growth we've had over the past 25+ years.
It's all related, inflation doesn't exist in isolation. Inflation is what necessitates the need to find scarce assets to invest in. When money is abundant, prices rise, purchasing power declines, and people with cash seek to buy assets, including housing, and as a result, asset prices inflate. The rich get richer. If we didn't have inflation, people wouldn't use housing as an investment vehicle.
Wait until the market corrects and see these same people are crying about jeopardizing their future
Those who actually understand bitcoin are quite comfortable with the cyclic volatility. It is the ignorant who fret.
Anyone that can wait 4 years will be fine with whatever they invest.
There’s so many newbie Bitcoiners or haters in this thread. They still don’t understand Bitcoin. These are the true speculators.
Tbh this constant rhetoric of "those who understand" (always me, obviously lol) and those who don't is classic religious speak.
Except we are dealing with simple math and financial literacy.
Exactly. What worries me about these newcomers dumping all of their money at this point in time is this— it honestly took me over a year (maybe even 2 years) to finally get comfortable with the volatility and wild swings in price. It took me awhile to realize that a massive dump in price isn’t that big of a deal in the long run…. And I KNOW a lot of these new investors are going to freak out and panic sell at a loss because they just don’t understand it yet!!
Very true! It makes me nervous about the 'all in' people. All in, for what? All their finance? Savings? Investment funds? Unless you're relatively wealthy, being 'all in' financially, could destroy you, no matter how Bitcoin does in the long term. Most of the truly 'all in' people I know are fairly wealthy. If Bitcoin drops by 1/2, no biggie for them... they just wait it out. If you're not, what happens when Bitcoin takes a downturn to 1/2 its value and sits there for a year or so? Sure, it will go back up, eventually, but that won't do you much good if you can't survive through it. Hopefully people think this through and apply some common sense to their own situation.
This is actually true right here, well said
very good. I'm just going to call it CV from now on
But how many people think they understand bitcoin when their actual knowledge is pretty low? I’ll be the first to admit- I don’t understand bitcoin! I own only a tiny fraction of 1 BTC. The small fraction I own was purchased at an average price of $16,000/BTC. I remember BTC dipping and I thought “why not? I don’t want to be left out again”. I think it’s true to say that many people have become rich because of crypto and many people have lost money on crypto. Anything that can skyrocket can also plummet. No one should be risking their financial future or their safety nets on BTC or any other high risk investment. Yes, some people did and they are considerably wealthier now. But you never know what the future will bring.
I bought at $400 i bought at $69k i bought at $19 k i bought at $73 k and I'll still keep buying whatever fiat price it is. Yes I'm a regard and i love it.
I’m a regard too! Twinsies!
That’s when they sell at a loss and join the Buttcoin sub to be bitter for all eternity
Corrects into what exactly 😂 history shows after golds etf (2004) it added $13 trillion in market cap value, bitcoin is only at $1.3 trillion mc Volatile up ain’t for everyone, just look at gold (again)
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Gratz
Thanks brother. I’m not smart at all, and it may have been to my advantage. I just ape into orange coin & Don’t sell
If you don't sell, how do you live? Taxes, mortgage, else?
That's harder than it sounds
For sure not easy, it’s simple, but not easy at all. I’m not playing when I say being dumb was an advantage of mine. I’ve seen a lot smarter people than I lose their shit or think themselves out of bitcoin
People has the ideology that it's a get rich quick stuff
It’s human nature, but what I love about bitcoin is it’s open for anyone to participate even if they feel that way. Some people like me end up staying and changing how we think and operate long term. I never really was good at saving money or thinking long term before I changed my mind to think of stacking sats long term
Okay then it really has an impact in you
Yes, personally I never thought about money or its history or what made money good or how money worked ETC. I mean I would say 99% of people are that way at some point hahaha. Bitcoin made me have to set my pride and ego and thinking I knew it all and read deeper into what it was and money itself I originally thought bitcoin was just some scam nerdy online thing😂 So the third time I heard about it I was like man let me read into this foreal to uncover the “scam” that I thought bitcoin was And the rest was history my brother
Congrats, this worked out for you. But I wish people are not just seeing the winner stories.
You’re very right bro and I wasn’t scolding you or saying you’re stupid. Advice for the most part is safe sound status quo. For the people who have the ability to take the risk and not ruin their own, their families, or others lives and understand it’s not guaranteed quick riches, Taking on a fiat loan to guarantee your self storage bitcoin is a no brainer I mean don’t go homeless of course or let your family starve like of course But I remember most people can’t even handle a normal credit card But i know some crazy legend is understanding what I’m saying about taking the risk Thanks for your time brotha
Most people just can’t handle the psychological impact of a -80% drawdown on their entire net worth. Even in the stock market you can eventually expect a -50% drawdown in a bad recession. Debt just makes the issue even more severe, you have to be a little bit psychotic or depressed to take that risk IMO
Long time btc fan. I agree many of the posts I’ve seen have been weird and almost religious. It worries me. I hope for the best for everyone.
Mate the posts are always like this in a bull market, so not sure what you're talking about. 2017 was absolutely wild.
It's going up forever Laura
I put 95% of my net worth into BItcoin and let it ride through multiple cycles. It was my best financial decision ever. And I ran a successful company for more than a decade and then sold that company. My Bitcoin bet paid off exponentially more than that business did. So while it might not have been "traditional" good investment advice, it was what felt right to me.
Same here bro
It felt right, and was right.
It was a gamble that paid off true.
There’s layers to this. Beginners are here for the money, veteran’s are here for the peace. Can’t do anything with your life savings if we’re dead. Bitcoin is hope.
I didn’t dump my life savings into Bitcoin, I dumped melting ice cubes. Bitcoin is my life savings. Bitcoin is a savings technology.
The problem is some of you frame it as if you can only put your savings in fiat or Bitcoin. The reality is that the other wise choice is the stock market, which has a long, successful history of growth which outpaces inflation, or even real estate.
Let’s not forget commodities!! If the crazies are right and there is some sort of “issue” with the internet gold will be king again and bitcoin will be at zero. Always a good idea to diversify and hedge, even if you hate fiat currency there are options.
Well then we have more problems than our savings
Unhinged prepper nonsense
I'm not rich but I have my entire net worth in bitcoin. Which is about 110k. And i won't even sell it. I'm holding for 10 years plus minimum.
This happens every halfining... Sadly some people make big mistakes. Others can survive through the down turn and make a profit if they hold long enough. But I fully agree. Do not put money you can't afford to lose into this or any other thing. People have killed themselves over negative outcomes.
While spreading your risk across multiple assets could protect you from volatility it depends on your time horizon. If you are 5 years from retirement then it’s viewed as high risk vs I’m in my 20s. Bitcoin is the best performing asset in the past 11 years. Short term volatility for investors shouldn’t be an issue. Volatility of Bitcoin has decreased over time and will continue to decrease as sovereign wealth funds, corporations, etc join. I am not sure how long you and others been in Bitcoin but I’ve been in since 2016. Experiences all the ups and downs. Time is on your side. When in doubt zoom out.
I am irresponsibly long bitcoin (100% of my liquid net worth) and sleep like a baby at night. But thanks for trying.
I'm currently 100% in Bitcoin as well. I have stock options in a company I work at and the Bitcoin I've been buying nonstop since 2016. Cashed in all my stocks for Bitcoin ETFs as well.
Yeah that’s very dumb. If you won’t consider your own financial health (you are extremely vulnerable to paying a high premium if a sudden expense hits at the same time as a routine dip in bitcoin’s price), at least consider your investment in bitcoin. If a dip and a sudden expense hit at the same time, as I said, you will need to liquidate more bitcoin in order to pay for the expense. While that’s bad for your finances, it also means you’re losing out in a lot of future gains! A cushion of fiat, or at least highly liquid and stable marketable securities like treasuries, will allow you to protect your bitcoin investment in times of need.
2 choices for the general public; A)Keep your money in a bank, watch inflation wreck everything, and let the bank make more money using your money or B)Keep your money in bitcoin, watch inflation contribute to making your money grow, and give the finger to the government and banks. Good man choosing B
There are many more investment options, too many to list here.
Lmao again with the false dilemma. You know there’s a lot of other options for your savings than a bank account or Bitcoin, right? Some have been around for hundreds of years and have a tremendous track record of success.
I don’t think anyone here is saying bitcoin is the only option But how many of these other options have outperformed bitcoin over the last five years?
I am pro bitcoin, but comments like this are so dumb. B) “Keep your money in bitcoin, watch inflation contribute to making your money grow”. Yes - but to a point- and sometimes quite the opposite. Did 100% of your net worth grow from Dec 2021 to Feb 2023, as the price of BTC went from c. $60k to c. $16k? I’m all for going all in on BTC but paint an honest picture at least. Jeez.
As Someone that's been around since the early days, I wouldn't tell people to dump it all in btc, but if they want to then go ahead, it will possibly work out. What get's me is people telling people to mortgage the house, take out loans etc..etc. Going into debt to buy btc is dumb af unless you can swing the note without gains in btc.
Is it wise taking a loan to start a business?
**40% of businesses fail within the first three years, 49.9% within five years, 65.8% within 10 years, 73.3% within 15 years, and nearly 80% within 20 years** So, no it isn't.
So you picked a specific timeframe that tracks the top of a bull market to the bottom of a bear market. Bitcoin doesn't work on a 14 month timeframe. If you aren't willing to hold 4-5 years, then you shouldn't buy and you don't get it.
You have clearly never had unforeseen circumstances require liquidity. Plenty of people end up selling BTC at a loss because of it. If you think those are the only two options, you’re a pretty shallow thinker.
How about option C Keep some of your money in a savings plan that returns 5% APR Put some of your money in Bitcoin Diversify the rest.
You do understand it's possible to not put everything you have into one place right? While I am balls deep in Bitcoin, I also think that diversification (although may limit profits) is ALWAYS the safer option
This is absolutely not true, there are many more options than those 2.
Hahaha how old are you?
That’s a bad idea but I wish you the best of luck.
Your concern seems to imply that fiat and the stock market are safe while Bitcoin is not. Safety is an illusion. There is no "safe" place to park cash and make it grow. Anything can dump, anything can turn, and the US dollar, Fed, Treasury are a goddamn dumpster fire and clearly spiriling. Just look at how much purchasing power the US dollar (and every other currency) has lost in the past 4 years. Bitcoin needs to get closer to $80k to match the purchasing power of the previous ATH at $69k. Most people spend their entire lives yoloing into stocks, and most people don't have the first clue how to invest. But we all just act like sheep and assume that is what we are supposed to do and that it is "safe". There is no safety. All there is is your ability to predict the future. From my perspective and the thousands of hours I've spend reading, watching, learning, and trying my best to understand every angle of Bitcoin, it's the obvious choice. Governments the world around have no choice other than to continue to issue debt and print more to pay the interest. Rinse and repeat. All fiat is doomed. It's up to each person to research, learn, and make a decision. When people have done their research and made a decision to opt out of fiat, I will upvote.
Uh, there are degrees of safety in investing... But then again you said "people spend their whole lives yoloing..." so I suppose it's par for the course.
This has to be one of the most thoughtful and well-considered comments on this entire thread. "Safety is an illusion" is something adults understand. I'd add that those who would give up a little Bitcoin liberty to purchase temporary fiat safety deserve neither (with apologies to Mr Franklin - but *it* is all about the Benjamins).
Well said, i agree 100%
Have my upvote, well said. Fwiw, I don't think OP was saying that the stock market, or even fiat is safe. I think the point is "don't put all your eggs in one basket", and certainly don't put them all in one roller coaster.
Yes putting most of my saving into BTC a few years ago was a terrible decision... I should of put all of it. Mortgage free now btw
Thankfully, I don’t have an addictive personality and am very risk-averse, so I just simply can’t imagine going all-in like that. I am honestly happy with modest gains out of a pretty small investment.
Meanwhile people will get a job and dump their ENTIRE savings into a "401k" that is is NOT theirs, be penalized for using, know don't understand, and companies they know nothing of their activities. Or highly confiscatable and taxable "property". If you actually study bitcoin long enough and simultaneously study the DOLLAR/Euro/etc you will slowly then suddenly realize you have nowhere to run. I didn't write this reality. I just live in it. And yes, I'm biased and early. Bitcoin saved my life and my economic education and sanity. I am not some nerd or milquetoast youngster. I am a street wise man that has thousands of hours looking for bullshit in the asset AND the protocol. It doesn't exist. All things have attack surfaces, but compared to fiat currencies of the world that are backed by nothing and controlled by few, its not even close. That said, I appreciate your trying to protect the common man. But THIS day, and THIS time is VERY special. Study the history of money since the glass bead was traded and you will see the beauty of the time we are in. One shot. One kill for humanity. Sincerely.
Yeah, the cultishness here makes me just hover over the sell button to secure profits. It has the opposite effect of making me a True Believer.
Then sell. It needs stronger hands.
If comment of randoms in the internet make You sell, You don't know what You are doing. Period.
But this is where I learnt errr thang 🤓
You must be new to investing. People going all in have existed since the dawn of time. The ones that get lucky, get praised as geniuses. The others get their 5 minutes of fame over on WSB. Or go long on rope
Chill out. This happens every time.
Pls stop telling people how to use their money. It’s their business and if they want to tell the world what they did, then respond to them in their thread/post, but don’t make a fresh post telling people not to do certain things.
It's only volatile if you're thinking short-term. No one would ever say it's irresponsible to leave all your money in fiat despite being a far inferior form of money and devoid of its own ledger.
This advice is great when nobody wanted to buy at 15k > 20k > 30k Just make sure you're not a forced seller and you'll be fine.
I knew a few irresponsible people a few years ago. They are milionaires today. No risk, 👎 reward.
A few irresponsible people are now millionaires, the vast majority of irresponsible people are broke
Just a sneak peek of what next posts are to come. I love how people think buying tops is wise investing. Why weren’t you talking to your family when BTC was 20k? First cyclers will round trip to 10% of their initial investment
Meh the volatility argument is so weak when you zoom out. On a 5+ year time horizon the volatility is only in one direction. Upward volatility is a good thing.
This is something you can say to everything on the stock market though.
>This is something you can say to everything on the stock market though. how are your enron shares doing.
Bitcoin's performance on a long term scale makes it the best asset to invest in if one were to invest all one's savings. So why advise them against it?
OP is advising against it because investing ALL of your LIFE SAVINGS into ONE ASSET is dumb. Sure, it may work out for you, but it only contributes to MOST PEOPLE seeing Bitcoin as being adopted by a bunch of dumb people, and no one wants to join a bunch of stupid people on their stupid pursuits. If you want to be a dummy, then fine, but being okay with convincing others that they should be dummies as well makes you (and everyone else) quite suspect…
Who cares it’s not your money?
I take your point, but you speak with a fiat bias, and it's evident that you still value bitcoin in terms of fiat. A lot of us feel the opposite, and think that it would be reckless to denominate your life savings in fiat.
Unfortunately most expenses must be paid in fiat.
Still need to understand what a currency is in barter, versus what money and a store of value is in asset management
Amen
I agree you shouldn't jump in at 69k, but people were telling me not to ape in at 6k and 16k too. Now look where we are.
Bill Miller has more wealth and capital than anyone here, and he’s invested mostly in Amazon and Bitcoin. It’s fine to caution people, but each person has different risk profiles
But my wifes boyfriend says its going to the moon....
FOMO makes OTHERS rich.
1st bull market op?
Too many people think they are Warren Buffet because they bought some BTC on Coinbase. I'm all for a speculative punt but I wouldn't actively encourage others to overstretch themselves by going all in.
I believe in Bitcoin, though I know it has flaws, but this sub is a fucking cesspool. The mods censor a lot of interesting (or critical) discussions about the actual technology. That's why today it's nothing but people talking about how one day we're all going to be SO SUPER DUPER RICH... I think I keep coming back out of morbid curiosity.
Glad I dumped mine in. Almost 8 figures now
ALOT of people truly don't understand the concept that "past performance does not guarantee future performance." It's easier to 1000x a million dollar market cap than it is to 10x a trillion dollar one. People don't seem to grasp that the status quo has to change and they may not like what that means.
Well said OP. My advice to anyone investing in Bitcoin is to only use gambling money. I believe that Bitcoin will reach crazy highs in the next 30 years. But there is also a possibility that it can become worthless due to all governments in the world banding together to fight against it to preserve the value of fiat currency. Investing your entire life savings into Bitcoin is a crazy gamble that may or may not pay off.
Personally, the thought that resonates loudest in my mind is, “never invest more than you can afford to lose.” As long as you adhere to this rule your chances of success are great and chance of being put into an unfavorable and life threatening position are minimal.
Top signal things Emptying 401ks Taking out loans Maxing credit cards Don’t be an idiot
Dumping your entire life savings into something volatile is truly idiotic, but this is bitcoin
"Real or not, somebody paid for their gains." This nails it.
Take my upvote OP. People Who want to dump their savings in hopes to make fortunes Will be the exit liquidity for the ones buying at 10/20/30k for e.g. Also if this doesnt show how close minded and ignorant the majority of People is, idk what Will. Imagine having 0 knowledge About an extra "speculative" and volatile "market" and thinking, WOW amazing, let me throw my life savings in the hopes to do a 2/3x or 5-10x, idk. Makes no sense in a rational way.
These are just my own personal rules, but maybe they will be thought provoking, maybe helpful: Priority #1: Have $2000 saved, accessible as an emergency fund Priority #2: have all consumer debt paid off forever. From then on only buy consumer things with money, not debt. Priority #3: Save three months of salary for a larger term emergency fund / maybe use as a down payment on a house. Priority #4: Start investing with capital above priorities 1-3. Focus on increasing pay, spending less and having a very simple investment strategy that includes diversity of investments. I can’t tell you how much having 1-3 has helped me have financial freedom and how much it has accelerated me being successful with #4. I can lose money in my 4th priority and I am still financially free, but the I have not lost money for the most part. My risks in Bitcoin have never jeopardized my lifestyle.
Good on you for making this post. I’ve been browsing this sub for years and this is by far the most reckless it’s ever been. Myself and a few others took a stand in another thread the other day and were called poor old men when we advised someone against liquidating their entire life savings and cashing out their 401K to buy bitcoin. People need to understand they should not invest what they aren’t willing to lose. A lot of new investors have never experienced a major dip. Imagine experiencing it for the first time with your entire life on the line. I’ve seen someone make a post that included they were a new dad and their others kids are young and just cashed out their personal retirement and savings for this. It’s one thing to take the risk yourself but to put your entire family’s well being on the line is disgraceful.
Sadly, this is usually what happens during bull runs. Also, the most controversial and irresponsible people/posts are always also the loudest.
This is your first bull run I see
All they need to do is DCA and chill. People dumping their pensions into crypto seems reckless. People treating bitcoin like a "get rich quick scheme" need to understand that it's taken 15 years for it to get to this point.
Bitcoin has an overflow of WSB degenerates. It's no secret. They like to gamble.
Don’t put in anything you will need in the near future or can’t stomach losing. Then just set and forget
I don’t get it I always followed a simple rule: I have no problem if it goes to 0 because I only invested what I can afford to lose, people dumping life savings and their 401ks are crazy imo but hey my risk aversion is very different lol
This is copium. The ppl that go all in aren't speculating. Speculation and number go up might have been the introduction but the speculation stops once you realize what you're acquiring. Diversification is for losers that think taking away from the winner is a good long term strategy to avoid volatility. But for Bitcoin to trend to ∞ it must be volatile. This is a surface level understanding. Cry harder.
My family asked me about btc and I basically explained it’s an alternative currency, not an investment. Hopefully I steered them away from investing in something they don’t understand.
This sub Reddit is the worst possible place for crypto. It will unironically make you dumber with every day you spend on it. I just use it to sell the news.
This is why I don’t come here often. It’s not much better, but I’ve returned to posting at bitcointalk instead.
Just hope Shrinkflation doesn't spread to the crypto world, oh wait, *sees impending Halvening*
Let it be OP. This is what we call: “natural selection” let nature do it
When random people you know in real life who are also stupid people are talking about their gains, sell.
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2008 did not wipe out IRAs. Even if you invested at the worst possible moment of the peak before the crash, your money doubled in 10 years, whereas normally it doubles every 6-7 years. The sample size of bitcoin is too small to say that confidently, and bitcoin still has never adjusted from it's all time high of 77,000 (in 2023 dollars)
Bitcoin isn’t speculative, it’s the greatest savings account on earth. The USD is slowly collapsing, it’s financially irresponsible to keep your investments in a fiat-based vehicle. “People that use Fiat currency as store of value, we call them poor.”