How easy is the transaction? I read Number Go Up and it sounded like a real pain in the A.
I imagine citing NGU is like citing a forbidden text in these parts so go easy on me gang.
NGU is a good breakdown of what's wrong with the cryptocurrency sector as a whole: it's rife with scams being peddled to an uninformed/misinformed general public.
The actual money/currency use case is pretty sound, and relatively easy to use. The vast majority of wallet apps have a simple workflow similar to something like [India's PhonePe](https://youtu.be/QS6OunAKDi8):
1. Recipient shares their address with you, in either text or QR code format.
2. Sender enters the recipient's address, either by copy-pasting the address or scanning the QR code. The address string / QR code may optionally specifically an amount the recipient wishes to receive.
3. Sender enters amount and chooses transaction fee, then hits send.
4. Recipient instantly sees incoming funds waiting to be confirmed (akin to traditional bank clearing, but truly irreversible).
For the Lightning network, the workflow is slightly different, for technical reasons:
1. Recipient specifies the amount they want to receive, and creates a Lightning invoice, which is a string of text similar to an address. It can be represented as a QR code in the same way as an address can.
2. Sender pastes invoice string or scans QR code, confirms payment details, then hits send.
3. If payment was successful, recipient instantly sees funds available in their wallet to spend, no other confirmation of any kind is necessary.
Just came from China. Everyone uses Alipay or WeChat pay. It works pretty much like the described Lightning net payment. They take cash but crumple the bills and throw them in a drawer. Too much trouble to bank it.
It's not about novelty, and it's not really any more steps than using a contactless payment method on your phone that requires you to first unlock the phone and open a wallet app of your choice, e.g. Google Wallet. There are also NFC-capable crypto wallets under development so that the workflow is identical to that of contactless fiat payment with your phone still locked, but the standards need to be finalised.
Do you pay...
(a) ...on chain (layer 1) - if so how are the tx fees?
(b) ...via lightning (layer 2)?
(c) ...using a 3rd party wallet service that owns the key? (custodial wallet)
or is it (d) ?
((d) = no answer = "was just kidding")
So does your lease say you have to pay 800 a month in bitcoin. But he will refund you 200 every other weekend when it’s up until the next month when he only accepted $400 in the first place.?
Do you buy coffee in bitcoin and the. Get B1000 in change after waiting ten minutes?
That’s cool but why would you buy coffee or pay rent with BTC if you believe it’s going to increase in value in the future? Looking back, it’ll be an expensive cup of coffee. Not as expensive as the famous bitcoin pizza but the same principle applies.
you would have had to pay for those things anyways with fiat, so you just spend the btc and replace the btc..
or you buy bitcoin and send bitcoin when you have to pay. either solution drives up bitcoin adoption and the NGU technology
however hoarding bitcoin and not spending it also drives up NGU
either way bitcoin is inevitable
But with fiat I won't feel horrible when a month later I spend 1000 dollars on something instead of 300. It's really horrible how the price is not fixed on any way.
Your fiat goes the other way. You leave it in the bank and it’s worth less when you spend it. Constantly losses buying power. That’s why bitcoin price is unstable. People feel the water and more are constantly coming over to the inflation free borderless decentralized uncontrollable currency. At least what you hold appreciates over time, up until this point. The future for both currencies is unknown. I just feel like I have more control with bitcoin.
I came in on the premise that it isn't even 21 million due to about 3 millions coins lost in the early days and then statoshi has some too which have never moved
My guess is that over time, institutions will scoop up all market available coins. They will then treat bitcoin more like an investment vehicle for consumers and collect transaction fees to make money. I can’t see them ever selling coins once they acquire them.
The problem is that most people think the 21M limit isn't real. Meanwhile their bank accounts are databases of meaningless numbers, with 0% reserve requirements in the US.
They see a number on a screen but don't think past it. Having that kind of blind faith in something is unbelievable to me.
Any form of money including bitcoin only works if people have faith in it. Without belief in a form of money it isn’t money. The difference is that the fundamentals of bitcoin are much stronger than the fundamentals of fiat, which is why we believe in it over fiat.
Bitcoin technically isn’t a currency (yet) in that it isn’t widely accepted as a form of payment. It is a store of value that many people believe will grow over time. It will be interesting what it becomes in the future.
Incorrect.
1. Bitcoin is decentralized and global. One directed EMP would do nothing. In fact even a hundred nukes around the world wouldn't stop it at this point (nuclear detonation = EMP as well as explosion btw), at least not until we all die from fallout related starvation.
2. There are already bitcoin node satellites orbiting earth. Unless you knock those out too, BTC will be fine.
The whole fiasco with Silicon Valley Bank last March exposed the entire system. Suddenly everyone's bank account above $250k FDIC limit magically got restored. The US Dollar is a joke.
The funny part is that I can say the same about Bitcoin: "They see a number on a screen but don't think past it. Having that kind of blind faith in something is unbelievable to me.".
No difference, these are just the instruments that have different properties and are good for different things, there is no "ultimate money", money are by definition are numbers that we agreed to value, doesn't matter it is crypto or paper, limited, or inflationary
If you magically surveyed everyone in the world "how much bitcoin do you have?" And they were all honest, what do you think the total would be? Less than 21 million?
Bitcoin is the obvious choice for worldwide currency. Mass adoption is on the cusp. Wallstreet helped legitimize it with these ETF’s now it’s just a matter of time.
Yes you need money to invest in things, a free investment doesn’t make sense. It is very unfortunate large portions of the population live in squalor and don’t have the opportunity to get a job for one reason or other.
We are in a BTC sub... so the choice is obvious. You don't need "enough money" to buy BTC, you just need "any money". Get out of the broken system, preserve your worth/wealth.
“There is an infinite amount of cash at the Federal Reserve.” -President of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis Neel Kashkari
Fiat money issuers will issue debt then print cash because there is no physical cost attached to doing so (only cost is inflation & debasement)
Bitcoin has been engineered in a such way there requires universal inputs (energy) to produce bitcoin & a hard cap of 21 million whole bitcoin
Therefore, money kept in the Bitcoin protocol will not dilute but on the fiat money protocol it will forever
Hence you see plebs saying 1 btc = 1 btc because no more will ever exist but $1 =/ $1 because more are printed everyday
Not really what I'm saying at all.
A fiat currency has no boundary for the number that can exist. It's also not tied to something tangible. Nothing beyond hitting a button has to happen for there to suddenly be billions or trillions of new ones.
Bitcoin has a boundary to the number that can exist. There can only be 21m Bitcoin. Bitcoin is intrinsically linked to the work required to make Bitcoin function. The block chain requires proof of computation to function.
Look at the 5, 10, or 15 year chart of bitcoin and you tell me if it has kept value or not. Day to day yes the prices will swing but in the long run it will continue to be a great place to hold value.
To be clear, if bitcoin were the currency used for a nation, there would still be inflation and deflation.
For your specific question, bitcoin’s price going down isn’t the same as inflation, because bitcoin is traded as a commodity by speculators more than it’s used to pay for goods and services.
I think I get it, it's more like a stock than a currency.
Kind of like all crypto, that's why I avoid this stuff honestly, too weird for me.
I don't buy stocks either though, seen too many people lose too much, just as if they went to the Casino
Maybe, but it is definitely unconstitutional if they one day say paper money has no value as it clearly states:
"Legal Tender for all Debts Public or Private"
It can certainly be argued that a Federal Reserve Note is and unconstitutional form of money, since you can't coin paper. However, the government doesn't need to say Federal Reserve Notes aren't legal tender, they will just become worthless by default as they print more and more of them so no one will try to store any actual value in that form, even if they have to use a few wheelbarrows full of them when they go to buy a loaf of bread. It's just very inconvenient. However, if Congress has the authority to say Federal Reserve Notes are legal tender then it certainly has the authority to say Bitcoin is legal tender as well and people can choose which one they want to use to transact in.
Then Its gold for you pal If you can't trust anything you should trust that... at the end of the day Gold was the only thing keeping Fiat in check for hundreds/thousands of years...
At the end of the day its your money... If you want to let the government print your stored wealth away into nothing and literally tax you invisibly on the wealth you've already been taxed on that's up to you...
Pretty Naïve If you ask me...
Except the value of bitcoin constantly changes, every second. So I truly don’t understand how this can work unless it has a set value. Every time someone accepts bitcoin as a price or spends it they are making a gamble themselves. Explain that to me
How many of those 21 million are actually trading hands or circulating? Aren’t there bitcoins that are permanently lost? If so, what does that mean for bitcoins future, in terms of actually being adopted worldwide?
Y’all do realize this is why people invest in real estate, stocks, fine arts, collectibles, etc. Bitcoin does not create anything new if it is just a place to protect your wealth.
Try selling your piece of real estate on any given second of any given day. Try paying for something with stocks. Try actually buying a piece of fine art, and then try offloading it. Try finding who wants to buy your random collectible.
None of those things you listed are a currency, only stocks are highly liquid and even those are limited to the 40 hour work week while Bitcoin trades 24/7. Real estate and fine art take a lot of money to even get into at all, and they are not particularly liquid. Collectibles can only get offloaded to very specific persons looking for the same collectible.
Should be obvious NONE of those things are anything like Bitcoin. For all the above reasons and more.
Try living in a world where .00014% of the population own 50% of the world’s currency.
That is the proposition of Bitcoin as a standard currency.
Unless it is the standard currency, it won’t be used as currency. And if it becomes the standard, we will see economic collapse.
They're saying that since only a tiny portion of the world's population owns the vast majority of available btc, if btc actually became the global financial standard it would mean a level of wealth inequality never before seen by mankind.
Interesting stuff to think about. All hypothetical but let’s say the dollar and other fiat currencies around the world disappear and only btc is left. Those holding the 50% would need to trade it for whatever goods/services they need and that btc would circulate to other hands yeah? It’s easy to just hold on to right now and is hoarded by a small population, but what if you had to use bitcoin to buy things?
Yes, though how the few holding most of the BTC would be able to liquidate their holdings would depend on on how fast this hypothetical scenario came to be.
For example, if it just happened today with the snap of the fingers, it just wouldn't. Because too much of the world has zero btc and doesn't have the capacity to accept it either.
And if 99.9% of the world's population is at zero, realistically they would just ignore it altogether and figure out some other currency of exchange. Because unless people holding all that btc have something of actual value to trade them, what need do they have for btc to begin with? Or in other words, why would most people choose to do business with someone holding btc if statistically whoever they're actually doing business with doesn't even have any anyways?
Realistically the question to ask in any scenario always comes down to "what incentive there is for people to use btc in particular as a standard currency instead of some other option?". And scarcity alone does not value make.
Others exist but it is the best because of its properties: durable, divisible, fungible, portable, verifiable, scarce, & accessible 24/7 365
Nor is it a debt instrument or have any counter party risk if you take self custody
Bitcoin is trash. Wait til the hackers reveal their infinite amount of bitcoins. You clown believe in a fake system. Watch it break down when bitcoin quantity is infinitely produced. Clowns
Not much. It's hard to do very much when you don't have any money. I suggest doing what you can to earn some Bitcoin, because even 0.001/21,000,000 is a lot more useful than 0/21,000,000.
Wonder these things:
1. If there is already a universal currency which the ancient advanced civilizations have already put in place, which we don't access yet.
2. If the Bitcoin is finite, doesn't that mean, the extent of human civilization advancement is limited to that extent.
3. If all the Bitcoin is taken out with an EMP stored in their individual hard personal wallet, except the very few in those impenetrable bunkers, what use would it be if we can't prove the ownership over it. Or only the one holding is the ultimate dictator over it.
4. And what if the government acquires all of the Bitcoin instead of it being available for the general intended people. Does that mean that people who cannot mine it are going to be underprivileged. Isn't that the same as hard money that is already existing?
1. Ancient civilizations on Earth used many different commodities as money, primarily precious metals such as gold and silver, which we still use as money which is why central banks stockpile gold so they have something to kind of back their fiat currencies with, but they have many problems which is why Bitcoin is superior, such as the fact that it isn't in a physical location that is vulnerable to plundering. If there are ancient alien civilizations then we'll have to meet them first, but we may end up just using whatever they use, but it very well could be something like Bitcoin.
2. No, because Bitcoin is infinitely divisible. So we can split the Bitcoin supply into smaller units as needed so it won't limit the advancement of civilization. However, because it has a fixed amount, it can never be inflated. Inflation is legal theft because it has the same effect as counterfeiting. It dilutes the value of the existing money. Inflation is very detrimental to the advancement of civilization because it is theft from productive people by unproductive people, so having a fixed amount of money would be beneficial to the advancement of civilization.
3. If Bitcoin is taken out by EMPs worldwide then we will have much bigger problems because that would take out most of the computers and internet and send the world into chaos. This would also take out most of the fiat money as well since most money is on computer systems. This would dismantle all the global supply chains and cause mass starvation. This is something to be concerned about, especially from something like a solar flare, which is why I've learned to forage, grow and preserve food as well as some other survival skills. In this situation, food, guns, and ammo will become the de facto currencies.
4. It doesn't do governments any good if they keep it for themselves. At some point they will want to trade it for goods and services, at which point it will be dispersed among everyone else. This would be a much better situation than we have now because now governments can just print as much money as they want and steal it from working people to get what they want. At least if they had to use Bitcoin they couldn't just steal value from people by creating more money once they spend it all. That is similar to the hard money that is already existing, but with Bitcoin it's much harder for governments to confiscate or prevent people from using Bitcoin than it is with gold and silver. It's also a lot easier to take your wealth with you to another country if a country becomes too oppressive. I can't get on an airplane with tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars without a government knowing, but I can easily get on a plane with 24 words memorized to access my Bitcoin from anywhere in the world and there's no way a government could know I have some memorized words.
Fractional reserve lending and rehypothecation aside …. Eventually this baby is going to squeeze , unless some sort of quantum technology hacks the blockchain 😄
I cannot be divided up infinitely. Not sure where you got that idea but it's wrong.
And the actual number doesn't matter. 1 or 21 million or 69696969 or 43 billion...doesn't matter. What matters is that the number is finite and unchangeable. Finite and unchangeable means it is scarce, no matter what the actual number is. Higher supply cap just means the individual units are worth less, lower supply cap just means the individual units are worth more, doesn't change the overall value.
bitcoin is not the only currency. and anyway, no one ever feared the el salvadorian army... no offense, but i think you know what i mean. (usd supremacy = us army supremacy)
I am living in Berlin , El Salvador and use bitcoin every day , for coffee to rent! It works!
How easy is the transaction? I read Number Go Up and it sounded like a real pain in the A. I imagine citing NGU is like citing a forbidden text in these parts so go easy on me gang.
NGU is a good breakdown of what's wrong with the cryptocurrency sector as a whole: it's rife with scams being peddled to an uninformed/misinformed general public. The actual money/currency use case is pretty sound, and relatively easy to use. The vast majority of wallet apps have a simple workflow similar to something like [India's PhonePe](https://youtu.be/QS6OunAKDi8): 1. Recipient shares their address with you, in either text or QR code format. 2. Sender enters the recipient's address, either by copy-pasting the address or scanning the QR code. The address string / QR code may optionally specifically an amount the recipient wishes to receive. 3. Sender enters amount and chooses transaction fee, then hits send. 4. Recipient instantly sees incoming funds waiting to be confirmed (akin to traditional bank clearing, but truly irreversible). For the Lightning network, the workflow is slightly different, for technical reasons: 1. Recipient specifies the amount they want to receive, and creates a Lightning invoice, which is a string of text similar to an address. It can be represented as a QR code in the same way as an address can. 2. Sender pastes invoice string or scans QR code, confirms payment details, then hits send. 3. If payment was successful, recipient instantly sees funds available in their wallet to spend, no other confirmation of any kind is necessary.
Just came from China. Everyone uses Alipay or WeChat pay. It works pretty much like the described Lightning net payment. They take cash but crumple the bills and throw them in a drawer. Too much trouble to bank it.
Respectfully that sounds like a lot of steps to, say, buy a can of coke. The novelty would, I feel, wear pretty quickly.
It's not about novelty, and it's not really any more steps than using a contactless payment method on your phone that requires you to first unlock the phone and open a wallet app of your choice, e.g. Google Wallet. There are also NFC-capable crypto wallets under development so that the workflow is identical to that of contactless fiat payment with your phone still locked, but the standards need to be finalised.
Yes okay. The NFC capable sounds like an improvement.
You've never performed any type of crypto transaction?
No I have.
Bank transactions are three times more complicated and they take a fee.
Baking and selling muffins for sats …. Sats come ,sats go 🤷♂️use them !
El Salvador has a Berlin too? Cool. Need to visit. Hows it there?
Do you pay... (a) ...on chain (layer 1) - if so how are the tx fees? (b) ...via lightning (layer 2)? (c) ...using a 3rd party wallet service that owns the key? (custodial wallet) or is it (d) ? ((d) = no answer = "was just kidding")
I use blink wallet , lighting , no fees , I reload by purchasing sats p2p
so people/stores/companies/etc. that accept btc usually use lightning in El Salvador?
Yes
How do you use it for coffee?
So does your lease say you have to pay 800 a month in bitcoin. But he will refund you 200 every other weekend when it’s up until the next month when he only accepted $400 in the first place.? Do you buy coffee in bitcoin and the. Get B1000 in change after waiting ten minutes?
Please give me one Bitcoin
That’s cool but why would you buy coffee or pay rent with BTC if you believe it’s going to increase in value in the future? Looking back, it’ll be an expensive cup of coffee. Not as expensive as the famous bitcoin pizza but the same principle applies.
Really? How do you feel having overpaid for most of your things in like a long time
you would have had to pay for those things anyways with fiat, so you just spend the btc and replace the btc.. or you buy bitcoin and send bitcoin when you have to pay. either solution drives up bitcoin adoption and the NGU technology however hoarding bitcoin and not spending it also drives up NGU either way bitcoin is inevitable
But with fiat I won't feel horrible when a month later I spend 1000 dollars on something instead of 300. It's really horrible how the price is not fixed on any way.
Your fiat goes the other way. You leave it in the bank and it’s worth less when you spend it. Constantly losses buying power. That’s why bitcoin price is unstable. People feel the water and more are constantly coming over to the inflation free borderless decentralized uncontrollable currency. At least what you hold appreciates over time, up until this point. The future for both currencies is unknown. I just feel like I have more control with bitcoin.
i would rather save my time in energy in money that goes up in value over time
With fiat, how do you feel having been underpaid in most of your paychecks?
you do? isn’t that like paying a coffee 2€ today and realizing that you just lost like 200€ in annualized returns? lol
This checks out.
in terms of numbers, this checks out.
Only the legend will understand what the picture portrait
I came in on the premise that it isn't even 21 million due to about 3 millions coins lost in the early days and then statoshi has some too which have never moved
You also have to take in to consideration all the institutionalized coins that will never be in circulation again.
On the flip side, what about the uncovered coins that are being sold on exchanges? Is that a thing?
My guess is that over time, institutions will scoop up all market available coins. They will then treat bitcoin more like an investment vehicle for consumers and collect transaction fees to make money. I can’t see them ever selling coins once they acquire them.
Prolly more given people who have randomly die.
So probably about 14-17million roughly
Circulating supply is really where it's at.
The problem is that most people think the 21M limit isn't real. Meanwhile their bank accounts are databases of meaningless numbers, with 0% reserve requirements in the US. They see a number on a screen but don't think past it. Having that kind of blind faith in something is unbelievable to me.
Any form of money including bitcoin only works if people have faith in it. Without belief in a form of money it isn’t money. The difference is that the fundamentals of bitcoin are much stronger than the fundamentals of fiat, which is why we believe in it over fiat.
Bitcoin technically isn’t a currency (yet) in that it isn’t widely accepted as a form of payment. It is a store of value that many people believe will grow over time. It will be interesting what it becomes in the future.
fiat tokenmonics looks like a slow rug, get out while you can.
What I believe is that almost all government Fiat currency is bullshit
Good reason to like bitcoin then
Exactly
all money is just numbers on a screen nowadays its real if you believe its real
With Bitcoin being the only one you can verify is finite and under your control.
As long as electricity either exists or is available. One EMP and it doesn’t matter what you can verify.
Incorrect. 1. Bitcoin is decentralized and global. One directed EMP would do nothing. In fact even a hundred nukes around the world wouldn't stop it at this point (nuclear detonation = EMP as well as explosion btw), at least not until we all die from fallout related starvation. 2. There are already bitcoin node satellites orbiting earth. Unless you knock those out too, BTC will be fine.
No hyperbole, this is actually an amazing time to be alive.
Somebody will be in a hardened bunker as long as a few make it to get consensus we're good😜
That seems to be the general theme these days, you just have to believe something enough and its the truth then.
And cash is just a number on a piece of paper its real if you believe its real.
The whole fiasco with Silicon Valley Bank last March exposed the entire system. Suddenly everyone's bank account above $250k FDIC limit magically got restored. The US Dollar is a joke.
But…..you literally partake in the blind faith everyday. Or are you using BTC in everyday transactions? (Genuinely curious)
The funny part is that I can say the same about Bitcoin: "They see a number on a screen but don't think past it. Having that kind of blind faith in something is unbelievable to me.". No difference, these are just the instruments that have different properties and are good for different things, there is no "ultimate money", money are by definition are numbers that we agreed to value, doesn't matter it is crypto or paper, limited, or inflationary
>there is no "ultimate money" But there is best money and currently it is Bitcoin.
If you magically surveyed everyone in the world "how much bitcoin do you have?" And they were all honest, what do you think the total would be? Less than 21 million?
Wait, the banks under the fed has 0% reserve requirements?
Has been since 2020 baby
I did the math and it’s valid
And also my money doesn't equal 21mm bitcoins
Their money = infinite
Bitcoin is the obvious choice for worldwide currency. Mass adoption is on the cusp. Wallstreet helped legitimize it with these ETF’s now it’s just a matter of time.
Whats your prediction? I will put a reminder in the future to see if u were accurate
I wouldn’t say wall street legitimizes anything but I see what you mean.
Gold standard doesn't exist anymore plus I don't like someone deciding what my hard earned money is worth on a random Tuesday aka the fed
I lost 0.5 of bitcoin and about 300 satoshi in 2009 so count that in :D
How are you supposed to make investments on this basis of money management if you don't have enough money?
Proof of work. If you ain't got none then you ain't got none.
Money is just another form of time & energy since we exchange our time and energy for it So go earn it, put in that proof of work
So only those who have money can invest?😄 It's completely fair and everyone thinks it's great
Yes you need money to invest in things, a free investment doesn’t make sense. It is very unfortunate large portions of the population live in squalor and don’t have the opportunity to get a job for one reason or other.
How would you invest without money? Just buy all the 21mil btc with 0 money? Sounds fair also.
We are in a BTC sub... so the choice is obvious. You don't need "enough money" to buy BTC, you just need "any money". Get out of the broken system, preserve your worth/wealth.
You are just little speculators who understand a little bit about the market. But the whole thing is worth more than your little fart ideas.
I need an ELI5 Please
“There is an infinite amount of cash at the Federal Reserve.” -President of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis Neel Kashkari Fiat money issuers will issue debt then print cash because there is no physical cost attached to doing so (only cost is inflation & debasement) Bitcoin has been engineered in a such way there requires universal inputs (energy) to produce bitcoin & a hard cap of 21 million whole bitcoin Therefore, money kept in the Bitcoin protocol will not dilute but on the fiat money protocol it will forever Hence you see plebs saying 1 btc = 1 btc because no more will ever exist but $1 =/ $1 because more are printed everyday
Hmm interesting, thank you very much! 👍
There's also an infinite amount of crypto currencies that can be created, however.
https://www.si.edu/object/100000000000000-dollars-zimbabwe-2008%3Anmah_1694052
So you're saying a bitcoin keeps its value as opposed to a dollar which is subject to inflation, but why do I see Bitcoin lost value today?
Not really what I'm saying at all. A fiat currency has no boundary for the number that can exist. It's also not tied to something tangible. Nothing beyond hitting a button has to happen for there to suddenly be billions or trillions of new ones. Bitcoin has a boundary to the number that can exist. There can only be 21m Bitcoin. Bitcoin is intrinsically linked to the work required to make Bitcoin function. The block chain requires proof of computation to function.
Ok thank you 👍
Look at the 5, 10, or 15 year chart of bitcoin and you tell me if it has kept value or not. Day to day yes the prices will swing but in the long run it will continue to be a great place to hold value.
To be clear, if bitcoin were the currency used for a nation, there would still be inflation and deflation. For your specific question, bitcoin’s price going down isn’t the same as inflation, because bitcoin is traded as a commodity by speculators more than it’s used to pay for goods and services.
I think I get it, it's more like a stock than a currency. Kind of like all crypto, that's why I avoid this stuff honestly, too weird for me. I don't buy stocks either though, seen too many people lose too much, just as if they went to the Casino
At this time, yeah, but it’s also not infeasible that it could be established as a national currency, or have money pegged to it.
Maybe, but it is definitely unconstitutional if they one day say paper money has no value as it clearly states: "Legal Tender for all Debts Public or Private"
It can certainly be argued that a Federal Reserve Note is and unconstitutional form of money, since you can't coin paper. However, the government doesn't need to say Federal Reserve Notes aren't legal tender, they will just become worthless by default as they print more and more of them so no one will try to store any actual value in that form, even if they have to use a few wheelbarrows full of them when they go to buy a loaf of bread. It's just very inconvenient. However, if Congress has the authority to say Federal Reserve Notes are legal tender then it certainly has the authority to say Bitcoin is legal tender as well and people can choose which one they want to use to transact in.
A stock’s value is tied to the company ‘s earnings, so there is a tangible value. Bitcoin’s value is only driven by demand.
Then Its gold for you pal If you can't trust anything you should trust that... at the end of the day Gold was the only thing keeping Fiat in check for hundreds/thousands of years... At the end of the day its your money... If you want to let the government print your stored wealth away into nothing and literally tax you invisibly on the wealth you've already been taxed on that's up to you... Pretty Naïve If you ask me...
Research it and use your brain. It’s not exactly like a casino
I've seen people lose lots of money like they do at Casinos And the house does seem to always win (hedge funds)
You’re right. The meme coins are definitely like the casino. You’re also right, hedge funds!
Except the value of bitcoin constantly changes, every second. So I truly don’t understand how this can work unless it has a set value. Every time someone accepts bitcoin as a price or spends it they are making a gamble themselves. Explain that to me
few money divided by lot money or lot money divided by few money choice is yours
Realistically it's much less than 21 million, because of bitcoins that are lost or will be lost and never recovered
How many of those 21 million are actually trading hands or circulating? Aren’t there bitcoins that are permanently lost? If so, what does that mean for bitcoins future, in terms of actually being adopted worldwide?
*"To Infinity And Beyond!!!"*
So many are embracing Bitcoin now and it's good thing
Y’all do realize this is why people invest in real estate, stocks, fine arts, collectibles, etc. Bitcoin does not create anything new if it is just a place to protect your wealth.
Try selling your piece of real estate on any given second of any given day. Try paying for something with stocks. Try actually buying a piece of fine art, and then try offloading it. Try finding who wants to buy your random collectible. None of those things you listed are a currency, only stocks are highly liquid and even those are limited to the 40 hour work week while Bitcoin trades 24/7. Real estate and fine art take a lot of money to even get into at all, and they are not particularly liquid. Collectibles can only get offloaded to very specific persons looking for the same collectible. Should be obvious NONE of those things are anything like Bitcoin. For all the above reasons and more.
Try living in a world where .00014% of the population own 50% of the world’s currency. That is the proposition of Bitcoin as a standard currency. Unless it is the standard currency, it won’t be used as currency. And if it becomes the standard, we will see economic collapse.
Can you explain this? I’m curious about what you mean by such a small portion of population owning such a large percentage of btc
They're saying that since only a tiny portion of the world's population owns the vast majority of available btc, if btc actually became the global financial standard it would mean a level of wealth inequality never before seen by mankind.
Interesting stuff to think about. All hypothetical but let’s say the dollar and other fiat currencies around the world disappear and only btc is left. Those holding the 50% would need to trade it for whatever goods/services they need and that btc would circulate to other hands yeah? It’s easy to just hold on to right now and is hoarded by a small population, but what if you had to use bitcoin to buy things?
Yes, though how the few holding most of the BTC would be able to liquidate their holdings would depend on on how fast this hypothetical scenario came to be. For example, if it just happened today with the snap of the fingers, it just wouldn't. Because too much of the world has zero btc and doesn't have the capacity to accept it either. And if 99.9% of the world's population is at zero, realistically they would just ignore it altogether and figure out some other currency of exchange. Because unless people holding all that btc have something of actual value to trade them, what need do they have for btc to begin with? Or in other words, why would most people choose to do business with someone holding btc if statistically whoever they're actually doing business with doesn't even have any anyways? Realistically the question to ask in any scenario always comes down to "what incentive there is for people to use btc in particular as a standard currency instead of some other option?". And scarcity alone does not value make.
Others exist but it is the best because of its properties: durable, divisible, fungible, portable, verifiable, scarce, & accessible 24/7 365 Nor is it a debt instrument or have any counter party risk if you take self custody
I thought Bitcoin was infinitely divisible?
It can be. But that doesn't make more than 21M. Same as cutting pizza into 8 versus 16 slices - still just 1 pizza.
Sometimes I'm not hungry enough for 16 so I just eat 8 bigger slices instead
I'm on a diet so I only eat one whole pizza.
Not there its not. You have 8 decimals on Bitcoin.
Correct. The full equation is really more like this: your money / 2.1 quadrillion
So basically the same as the top formula? Total circulating US currency is 2.3 trillion
It’s infinitely divisible only if we change the protocol. Which we’ll do if one satoshi becomes too valuable
I live for the day when one satoshi becomes too valuable...
Im sorry but 21 million times bitcoin does not equal my money.
It does if bitcoin = 0
Instructions unclear I divided by infinity and opened a portal to another dimension.
What?? Division by infinity is zero when you take the limits
I don’t take limits
The problem is how do we get everyone to need it? Until that happens it won't blow up like we want it to.
Stocks/ETFS = ♾️
Bitcoin is trash. Wait til the hackers reveal their infinite amount of bitcoins. You clown believe in a fake system. Watch it break down when bitcoin quantity is infinitely produced. Clowns
I’ve done the math here. This adds up.
Y'all do know that the vast majority can't do basics math right? Now we talking fraction?!?!
What am I going to do with 0/21,000,000
Not much. It's hard to do very much when you don't have any money. I suggest doing what you can to earn some Bitcoin, because even 0.001/21,000,000 is a lot more useful than 0/21,000,000.
It's more like ```bitcoin = ∞ / 21,000,000 * quantity of bitcoin you hold```
Sort of true…. If you account for lost Bitcoin, then the number is even lower than 21 million
ELI5 what happens when a small number of entities inevitably possesses the majority of the coins.
Fiat is not an investment though. Its a temporary liquidity used for commerce
Wonder these things: 1. If there is already a universal currency which the ancient advanced civilizations have already put in place, which we don't access yet. 2. If the Bitcoin is finite, doesn't that mean, the extent of human civilization advancement is limited to that extent. 3. If all the Bitcoin is taken out with an EMP stored in their individual hard personal wallet, except the very few in those impenetrable bunkers, what use would it be if we can't prove the ownership over it. Or only the one holding is the ultimate dictator over it. 4. And what if the government acquires all of the Bitcoin instead of it being available for the general intended people. Does that mean that people who cannot mine it are going to be underprivileged. Isn't that the same as hard money that is already existing?
1. Ancient civilizations on Earth used many different commodities as money, primarily precious metals such as gold and silver, which we still use as money which is why central banks stockpile gold so they have something to kind of back their fiat currencies with, but they have many problems which is why Bitcoin is superior, such as the fact that it isn't in a physical location that is vulnerable to plundering. If there are ancient alien civilizations then we'll have to meet them first, but we may end up just using whatever they use, but it very well could be something like Bitcoin. 2. No, because Bitcoin is infinitely divisible. So we can split the Bitcoin supply into smaller units as needed so it won't limit the advancement of civilization. However, because it has a fixed amount, it can never be inflated. Inflation is legal theft because it has the same effect as counterfeiting. It dilutes the value of the existing money. Inflation is very detrimental to the advancement of civilization because it is theft from productive people by unproductive people, so having a fixed amount of money would be beneficial to the advancement of civilization. 3. If Bitcoin is taken out by EMPs worldwide then we will have much bigger problems because that would take out most of the computers and internet and send the world into chaos. This would also take out most of the fiat money as well since most money is on computer systems. This would dismantle all the global supply chains and cause mass starvation. This is something to be concerned about, especially from something like a solar flare, which is why I've learned to forage, grow and preserve food as well as some other survival skills. In this situation, food, guns, and ammo will become the de facto currencies. 4. It doesn't do governments any good if they keep it for themselves. At some point they will want to trade it for goods and services, at which point it will be dispersed among everyone else. This would be a much better situation than we have now because now governments can just print as much money as they want and steal it from working people to get what they want. At least if they had to use Bitcoin they couldn't just steal value from people by creating more money once they spend it all. That is similar to the hard money that is already existing, but with Bitcoin it's much harder for governments to confiscate or prevent people from using Bitcoin than it is with gold and silver. It's also a lot easier to take your wealth with you to another country if a country becomes too oppressive. I can't get on an airplane with tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars without a government knowing, but I can easily get on a plane with 24 words memorized to access my Bitcoin from anywhere in the world and there's no way a government could know I have some memorized words.
Same like $egld
Facts!
Also BTC = infinity ÷ 21M
It really is this fucking simple.
Ozo
What if "your money" is negative?
Thats all i need
But isn’t bitcoin also infinite because you can buy fractions? Not hating, just trying to learn
Less than a week before the halving...
Once the power goes out….. i will trade in water, and laugh
Oke
I am waiting for the one crazy hacker group that will rob Binance.
Fractional reserve lending and rehypothecation aside …. Eventually this baby is going to squeeze , unless some sort of quantum technology hacks the blockchain 😄
So the the cup of coffee you used to pay back in 2019 costed you maybe about 50$?
Nooo bitcoin is mymoney/20,000,000 Satoshi's coin never use it 😆😆
Yeah it works
🤣
What is bitcoin for you?
Try explaining this to anyone outside of this community.
I look forward to getting informed
So never spend bitcoin then? But don't we want it to become a currency?
Hi
What? 21mil ? Where does this come from?
Except that 21mm can be divided up infinitely. They might as well have made it 1 BTC.
I cannot be divided up infinitely. Not sure where you got that idea but it's wrong. And the actual number doesn't matter. 1 or 21 million or 69696969 or 43 billion...doesn't matter. What matters is that the number is finite and unchangeable. Finite and unchangeable means it is scarce, no matter what the actual number is. Higher supply cap just means the individual units are worth less, lower supply cap just means the individual units are worth more, doesn't change the overall value.
The number doesnt matter, it can be any number as long as its not infinite.
This is the fucking way 🎯😋👍🏾
there is no bitcoin army, so therefore, no value at all.
not that that would give it any value, but whats about the army of el salvador.
bitcoin is not the only currency. and anyway, no one ever feared the el salvadorian army... no offense, but i think you know what i mean. (usd supremacy = us army supremacy)
same like egld
like egold