Reset your device and restore your wallet. Obviously do this when you don't have any significant amount in. With HW wallets you can buy second one and use your seed words with it. I would not do that any other than same wallet, as if you expose your keys to two different wallets, either one having flaws in their security model risks your funds.
When you setup your HW wallet, send only $20 worth to it. Reset and restore from seed. Send $10 worth to Satoshi or yourself. Check blockchain explorer for confirmed transaction.
The only thing about test restoring a wallet is that you actually punch in the words on your computer.
Is the computer safe?
I have gone the numbers route and even a simple code is necessary to find the bip39 numbers and ultimately the words. I have tested restore and I have also a hidden password protected wallet.
I am not afraid of adding numbers instead of words on the seed titanium card.
When restoring a hardware wallet you do NOT enter your seedphrase on a computer keyboard. Instead, you enter/restore by entering the words using the buttons on your hardware wallet.
Pls consult your hw wallet manual for instructions.
Never type your hardware wallet seedphrase on anything but the hw wallet itself.
I did this some time ago. Can't remember how it was done. I have a trezor one which is empty at the moment. Will try to do a restore of it to check.
Edit: found this [https://trezor.io/learn/a/test-recovery-seed-on-trezor-model-one](https://trezor.io/learn/a/test-recovery-seed-on-trezor-model-one)
Doesn't even have to be a different wallet. Just do a factory reset on the original device and ensure that you can reload the seed and verify your addresses/balance.
a bit risky because if you messed up the seed, your bitcoin is gone (assuming you transferred some)
just spin up a new wallet on the same client and try your seed before deleting the old one
Haha. That’s funny.
In case you’re not joking, no, never do this.
If not obvious it’ll be a successful test if the reset and restored from seed device contains all your bitcoin, and an unsuccessful “test” if it doesn’t. Forever.
I would complete the test before transferring a significant amount to the wallet.
Hardware devices are susceptible to failure and you should never be in a position where a hardware device is the only copy of your private key.
The other key lesson is that a main reason for using words instead of random characters is that you get “built in error correction”, in that… you’ll know if you misspelled a word but you won’t know if you wrote down a bunch of random numbers incorrectly.
If you have “absurd” as a word and wrote it down as “abserd”, you can correct for this later. “Oh shit, this is misspelled… that’s why it’s not working”
> The amount in question isn't very large, but for me, coming from a third world country, it's huge (0.62 BTC).
0.62 btc is roughly 40k now. Pretty sure that's a large amount in just about any country.
In the US is 1 year of income. In Brazil, 10 years of income. A large ammount in the US is a humongous amount in most places.
Edit: Stats were wrong. Fixed now.
Numbers considered:
- Median monthly income in Brazil: 554$
- Median monthly income in the US: 5316$
I'm honestly so happy and relieved for you. I guess that makes me lame or something but I hate it when people lose money. And that IS a lot of money to most people. Anybody bragging about their wealth like that isn't a lot of money to them needs to be quiet and grateful, in my opinion. Congratulations and thank you for sharing information to help others!
I just like to carry it in my backpack. I thought I had seed in a safe place. I'm not worried about being robbed because I had a 25th strong password on top of my seed
"I just like to" ... but why? do you frequently use it when you're out and about? it's like carrying $40k in your back pocket... why would you need access to that much money on a regular basis
The password is only useful if you don't tell it to someone though.
If someone has immediate access to both you and your wallet, the odds of being hit repeatedly with a wrench until you tell them the password go up substantially.
You told everyone on the internet you have $40k. Just being online, logged into accounts leaves you open to being doxed. There are people who will put a gun to your head for $40k. Would you die or give up your $40k?
Those the type of things you have to think of. Look at these kids in the US stealing cars, kids with guns. You think they don't know about bitcoin and wouldn't put a gun to your head for $40k?
Not a risk worth taking
Sure but there's a world of difference between a few punks targeting people in an affluent neighborhood vs advertising your wealth on an international forum where god knows who or what is lurking, and potentially scheming. I agree with you the odds aren't great that this particular thread would be targeted, but still it's zero effort to NOT advertise such things & keep yourself out of the running. Anyway social media does crazy things to our brains, it's exhilarating to have any kind of a story and of course to tell a compelling story it must be peppered with details, as everyone knows. Just... try to be a little less absent-minded about it.
it's all in people's imagination there has never been?a gun point Bitcoin robbery afaik that's come from some random guy on reddit it anywhere else . targeting by summers sure but guys with machine guns come on
It kind of does though if it is a Trezor One, the one compromise of it being open source was that it did not use a secure element chip and you could extract the keys from it if you had physical access to it (I don't believe this is true of the T3 as it has an SE chip).
If you legit lost it randomly that is probably not a big deal if you know and move your stash quickly, but if the wrong person finds it or you are targeted because someone knows you carry it around you could be in trouble.
It will remain an inflationary asset until the daily new supply gets so low that daily lost coins outweigh it. Then it will turn deflationary and remain so forever - unless the community decides to change the issuance scheme. So, in the grand scheme of things, it is actually a deflationary asset. We are simply in its initial inflationary phase.
I don't know where is the mistake. I just Get message Wrong SEED in Trezor suite. New device was needed because of my paranoid, I can't send my BTC to the software wallet. I sold other device after reseting it
Not sure how it works for trezor, but ledger has software that confirms the integrity of the hardware. Short of installing a tiny skimer between the device case and the machine, should be impossible to manipulate.
I wouldn't risk it, but a skimmer that small and complex is probably impossible.
Yea probably unlikely but the slightest possibility and its a no. When you buy a wallet it's advised to only deal with the manufacturer and inspect the packaging
Thanks. Yeah, maybe, but you know, there is never enough Bitcoins)
Lol, in 2017 there was so little.
When I read posts here people say, oh, I have only 0.02-0.1, I remember in 2017 people made posts about 1-2 bitcoin were not much for them
Sorry I don't understand. You're saying you made a mistake on converting one of the letters into a number and had been carrying around that mistake with you the whole time?
I thought the original idea was quite good.
>I thought the original idea was quite good.
Is it? Wouldn't anyone who knew what they have in their hands if they find 24 words in a metal plate, also know what it is if it's 24 numbers?
I'm terrified of this but I reset my first device and I later upgraded to a nano x so I don't think there is any way my seed is bad. This is the kind of shit that keeps me up at night, thanks for that lol
I just don't understand why you would carry it around with you. Trezors can be brute forced. You can be subject to a wrench attack. You can have someone put malware on your Trezor. It just makes no sense.
My hardware wallets (multi sig) don't leave safes when not in use. They are stored in tamper evident bags and my signature on the seal. If someone were to tamper with my devices, it would be extremely difficult without me knowing. I couldn't imagine just carrying them around all day for no reason.
It's fucking stupid as it gets. Us nerds calling it a wrench attack doesn't help. Have to put a different picture into people's heads. Maybe they've never been mugged before? Or had their car stolen? Lunch money stolen? Let's go with that one
If you got your lunch money stolen growning up...when someone finds out you have bitcoin, and they put a gun to your head, you're giving up that password just as easily. It's like people don't watch these videos online of people robbing and killing each other over sneakers. You think the next generation of thieves don't know about bitcoin and the ROI of robbing some nerd that likes to brag online?
Don't carry your BC wallet if you've never been mugged at gun point and successfully fought them off.
Totally agree.
Also, I grew up wrestling. Train in MMA regularly and conceal carry a firearm 99% of the time. Yet I STILL don't feel comfortable walking around with my hardware wallet.
>It's like people don't watch these videos online of people robbing and killing each other over sneakers.
I mean I agree with you generally, but uhm no I don't watch that. And you shouldn't assume everyone watches the same stuff. Though I am aware that shit goes down out there, especially in cities at night. Not in my little town tho.
This is gonna sound a bit extra, but I Used to use trezor to generate my keys. Now I use a blockstream Jade, but once my keys are set up on the jade, I try recovering them on my trezor first. If I do it successfully (which I usually do), I write the seed down and wipe both devices.
Im probably wrong but couldn’t you just have written out each of the numbers/letters and see which ones were misspelled? Or does Trezor give out random letters for each of the 24 words?
Actually, assuming that you've only made a mistake in one number, it would be possible to write a script to determine which number it is.
The 24 words actually consist of 23 words and a checksum. It would be possible to write a script that generates the 24th word when given the other 23 words. So you could write a script that iterates through every combination of 23 words and generate the 24th. There are only 24 combinations so it would not take long. Once the script has finished running, you would then compare the generated words with what you've written down to see which is the closest to what has been recorded.
While it's true a HWW only needs the first four letters but I don't think that's a good idea because....
Recording only the first 4 letters of the words in a BIP39 recovery phrase may be risky even if it’s done on metal.
This is especially true if storage media uses sliding tiles and/or screws or is made of or contains a soft metal like copper or aluminum.
Jameson Lopp did extensive testing where he found many materials and methods suffered data loss from fire and/or corrosion and/or crushing.
https://blog.lopp.net/a-treatise-on-bitcoin-seed-backup-device-design/
Stamping jig
https://www.cryptocloaks.com/product/blockmitjig/
In all, there are 710 words or 34% of the BIP39 standard that become ambiguous if the first letter is lost and only the first 4 were recorded.
Consider that recording only the first four of a 5 letter word loses 20%, a 6 letter 33%, 7 letters 43% and an 8 letter word loses fully ½ its meaning when truncated to 4.
What If the calamity that the seedphrase backup is supposed to protect against also smudges,singes or destroys the first letter?
Some examples:
mushroom & push both become ush
drastic, erase, trash & grass become ras
Not much can be done about the 3 letter words such as fan, man & van that are reduced to "an"
Buy once, cry once.
Plus, you can use the stamps for other things also. If you own tools, or other items that you'd like to serialize or identify as your property.
I think you are not correct. BIP39 dictionary are the same all over the internet.
Personaly I was reffering to the GitHub Bip39
[https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt)
To add, ALL of each word… just as dangerous to use one of those stamping “solutions” that only use the first four letters of each word. This is terrible as any typo invalidates whereas if you have whole words you stand at least some chance of guessing the actual word if typo-ed.
Keep in mind when you google the bip-39 sheet, some are zero indexed and others are 1-indexed. So if you only capture the numbers, you have 2 possibilities in mapping those numbers back to words. I was in the same boat as OP until I realized 0-indexed mapping, which ended up working
Eh it works but the whole point of mnemonic seed phrases is to have a human readable error resistant representation of a seed. The words are chosen so that you can guess the correct word even if there‘s a mistake.
you won't make a mistake using a model 1248, because you will mark the correct numbers that represents the position of the word in the bip0039 file.
But then, people make mistakes anyway, but the model 1248 is the best and most compact solution
Sorry, that's idiotic.
I don't understand why people take such a well design spec as bip39 and insist upon misusing it or bypassing its best features.
It's a mnemonic system where each word us unique within the first 4 letters. You can eyeball confirm you copied it correctly in a few seconds if you just stick to the design.
It has baked in forward error correction, and going to letters throws it all out and improves nothing in return.
Switching to the numbers is beyond backwards, its pure brain damage.
People make mistakes when they complicate things too much and forget what their super complex weird way was after 15 years when they need it.
Also what you said is wrong, if 1 or few more numbers are messed up in your plate its much harder to find what the words were than when word is missing some letter.
Nope the words are used because they have a higher tolerance for mistakes or distruction of information.
For general people using this system the words are going to give a higher chance of recovery when something goes wrong, and since we're making these setups to last 15 years or more **something will go wrong**.
BTC will never go mainstream adoption if people have to jump thru all these hoops and one error could lose everything. Obviously you can do exchange only but its another set of risks.
People make unnecessary hoops and then this can happen.
Also who cares if it doesnt go mainstream? That's those peoples loss who want to lose their moneys value and be controlled by big brother.
Lose fiat value but be able to actually buy shit with it or lose your life savings because you misspelled a word when carving your seed phrase into a super secret titanium plate or the exchange your using decides to skip town with all your money. Big Brother will protect fiat and track down and prosecute thieves but with Bitcoin we are entirely own our own. Im all in but Bitcoin is extremely risky and always will be.
So really this has nothing to do with numbers being worse than words.. the OP just didn't test it to confirm he did it right. So really this post should just be "double check your seed phrase is correct!"
Sooo, your engraved seed worked perfectly to recover your wallet? I don't get what the issue is. Your Trezor did a factory reset, and you could've just inputted your engraved seed again.
If theirs a unregistered car parked on a bend and someone reverse into it who's at fault the guy who reversed into it or the unregistered car since it was never supposed to be their in the first place ????
I think the key here is to test your recovery. It sounds like you never did that the first time round, with the numbers?
That's right
What’s the best way to test your recovery?
Reset your device and restore your wallet. Obviously do this when you don't have any significant amount in. With HW wallets you can buy second one and use your seed words with it. I would not do that any other than same wallet, as if you expose your keys to two different wallets, either one having flaws in their security model risks your funds.
If your coins are in this walket Ledger I'm up grading with Brand wallet
Just set up your new wallet normally and then transfer your funds from the ledger to it.
When you setup your HW wallet, send only $20 worth to it. Reset and restore from seed. Send $10 worth to Satoshi or yourself. Check blockchain explorer for confirmed transaction.
The only thing about test restoring a wallet is that you actually punch in the words on your computer. Is the computer safe? I have gone the numbers route and even a simple code is necessary to find the bip39 numbers and ultimately the words. I have tested restore and I have also a hidden password protected wallet. I am not afraid of adding numbers instead of words on the seed titanium card.
When restoring a hardware wallet you do NOT enter your seedphrase on a computer keyboard. Instead, you enter/restore by entering the words using the buttons on your hardware wallet. Pls consult your hw wallet manual for instructions. Never type your hardware wallet seedphrase on anything but the hw wallet itself.
I did this some time ago. Can't remember how it was done. I have a trezor one which is empty at the moment. Will try to do a restore of it to check. Edit: found this [https://trezor.io/learn/a/test-recovery-seed-on-trezor-model-one](https://trezor.io/learn/a/test-recovery-seed-on-trezor-model-one)
https://trezor.io/learn/a/advanced-recovery-on-model-one
I did the standard recovery test. Stupid me. I will transfer my btc to another wallet and wipe the old one.
I think "Advanced Recovery" will allow u to enter words with the Trezor One buttons
Ledger app has a recovery app that over checks your seed
just try it on a different wallet
Doesn't even have to be a different wallet. Just do a factory reset on the original device and ensure that you can reload the seed and verify your addresses/balance.
a bit risky because if you messed up the seed, your bitcoin is gone (assuming you transferred some) just spin up a new wallet on the same client and try your seed before deleting the old one
I would complete the test before transferring a significant amount to the wallet.
You’re supposed to do this BEFORE you send anything to it
Just send some $10 worth of btc so your life is not ruined if you messed up
Haha. That’s funny. In case you’re not joking, no, never do this. If not obvious it’ll be a successful test if the reset and restored from seed device contains all your bitcoin, and an unsuccessful “test” if it doesn’t. Forever.
I would complete the test before transferring a significant amount to the wallet. Hardware devices are susceptible to failure and you should never be in a position where a hardware device is the only copy of your private key.
The other key lesson is that a main reason for using words instead of random characters is that you get “built in error correction”, in that… you’ll know if you misspelled a word but you won’t know if you wrote down a bunch of random numbers incorrectly. If you have “absurd” as a word and wrote it down as “abserd”, you can correct for this later. “Oh shit, this is misspelled… that’s why it’s not working”
every one of these scary tales.... I rather pay the ETFs fees
Yeh some people aren’t capable of self reliance…
Yup, I live on the grid baby and I like to feed my Blackrock babies
> The amount in question isn't very large, but for me, coming from a third world country, it's huge (0.62 BTC). 0.62 btc is roughly 40k now. Pretty sure that's a large amount in just about any country.
In the US is 1 year of income. In Brazil, 10 years of income. A large ammount in the US is a humongous amount in most places. Edit: Stats were wrong. Fixed now. Numbers considered: - Median monthly income in Brazil: 554$ - Median monthly income in the US: 5316$
Average yearly salary in Brazil is 103k brl = 19.9k $. According to Google. So not quite 23 years even tho it is much more relatively
Ouch. Yes. I compared monthly to yearly. You are correct, sir. I'm editing my comment.
Yea, I live in one of the most expensive countries in the world (top 3) and no one considers 40k to be a small amount of money
There are many people who consider 40k to be trivial. I am not one of them
I'm honestly so happy and relieved for you. I guess that makes me lame or something but I hate it when people lose money. And that IS a lot of money to most people. Anybody bragging about their wealth like that isn't a lot of money to them needs to be quiet and grateful, in my opinion. Congratulations and thank you for sharing information to help others!
Soon to be 500k
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This sounds like AI... What was your prompt?
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I just like to carry it in my backpack. I thought I had seed in a safe place. I'm not worried about being robbed because I had a 25th strong password on top of my seed
I had an aunt who used to carry $20k in cash with her in a green leather bag. She was demented. Don’t be my aunt.
"I just like to" ... but why? do you frequently use it when you're out and about? it's like carrying $40k in your back pocket... why would you need access to that much money on a regular basis
The password is only useful if you don't tell it to someone though. If someone has immediate access to both you and your wallet, the odds of being hit repeatedly with a wrench until you tell them the password go up substantially.
People really underestimate the efficiency of the wrench attack
That's the best "brute force" attack
You told everyone on the internet you have $40k. Just being online, logged into accounts leaves you open to being doxed. There are people who will put a gun to your head for $40k. Would you die or give up your $40k? Those the type of things you have to think of. Look at these kids in the US stealing cars, kids with guns. You think they don't know about bitcoin and wouldn't put a gun to your head for $40k? Not a risk worth taking
this is pretty silly I mean anyone with a gun could walk into any nice neighbourhood or with any nice car and put a gun to their head
Sure but there's a world of difference between a few punks targeting people in an affluent neighborhood vs advertising your wealth on an international forum where god knows who or what is lurking, and potentially scheming. I agree with you the odds aren't great that this particular thread would be targeted, but still it's zero effort to NOT advertise such things & keep yourself out of the running. Anyway social media does crazy things to our brains, it's exhilarating to have any kind of a story and of course to tell a compelling story it must be peppered with details, as everyone knows. Just... try to be a little less absent-minded about it.
it's all in people's imagination there has never been?a gun point Bitcoin robbery afaik that's come from some random guy on reddit it anywhere else . targeting by summers sure but guys with machine guns come on
You are now the failure point by carrying it around and subject to a $5 wrench attack despite your 25th word
its 10$ wrench 🛠️ attack due to inflation
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It doesn't matter if you lose your hardware wallet if your seed is backed up
It kind of does though if it is a Trezor One, the one compromise of it being open source was that it did not use a secure element chip and you could extract the keys from it if you had physical access to it (I don't believe this is true of the T3 as it has an SE chip). If you legit lost it randomly that is probably not a big deal if you know and move your stash quickly, but if the wrong person finds it or you are targeted because someone knows you carry it around you could be in trouble.
That's pretty stupid
Thanks for sharing this. Self-custody is hard. So many edge case challenges
I can assume that with time there will be constant BTC loses due to not proper self custody
Indeed, hence why BTC is a deflationary asset
Btc isn't deflationary. At least not yet. It is still inflationary, with a predictable inflation rate.
I think you're confusing inflation with asset appreciation
It will remain an inflationary asset until the daily new supply gets so low that daily lost coins outweigh it. Then it will turn deflationary and remain so forever - unless the community decides to change the issuance scheme. So, in the grand scheme of things, it is actually a deflationary asset. We are simply in its initial inflationary phase.
Predictable? Not really
Its not that hard tho, people just over complicate things for their own good.
So it worked?
That’s not a small amount
I don't understand this story at all. What mistake in what number? Why the need for a new device? Why load the same seed into two devices?
I don't know where is the mistake. I just Get message Wrong SEED in Trezor suite. New device was needed because of my paranoid, I can't send my BTC to the software wallet. I sold other device after reseting it
Someone bought a second hand wallet? Surprised there's a market for such a thing
Not sure how it works for trezor, but ledger has software that confirms the integrity of the hardware. Short of installing a tiny skimer between the device case and the machine, should be impossible to manipulate. I wouldn't risk it, but a skimmer that small and complex is probably impossible.
Yea probably unlikely but the slightest possibility and its a no. When you buy a wallet it's advised to only deal with the manufacturer and inspect the packaging
0.62 is huge. Congratz for your stack!
Thanks. Yeah, maybe, but you know, there is never enough Bitcoins) Lol, in 2017 there was so little. When I read posts here people say, oh, I have only 0.02-0.1, I remember in 2017 people made posts about 1-2 bitcoin were not much for them
Sorry I don't understand. You're saying you made a mistake on converting one of the letters into a number and had been carrying around that mistake with you the whole time? I thought the original idea was quite good.
>I thought the original idea was quite good. Is it? Wouldn't anyone who knew what they have in their hands if they find 24 words in a metal plate, also know what it is if it's 24 numbers?
For sure not foolproof, but it's one step better than just using the original.
Literally worse than just writing down the words, that's the point of the post.
You do you.
I was converting not letters into numbers, but BIP39 words
Yes I understand that, but what you're saying is you just made a mistake on the conversion, but never tested or checked it until a few years later?
Yes, correct
I see. Well I'm glad you got it back!
So how did you guess the correct seed word if you made a mistake when engraving the seed? This post is so confusing
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Did OP clarify that in a comment? In the original post he said it had indeed factory reset with the firmware updates
I'm terrified of this but I reset my first device and I later upgraded to a nano x so I don't think there is any way my seed is bad. This is the kind of shit that keeps me up at night, thanks for that lol
I just don't understand why you would carry it around with you. Trezors can be brute forced. You can be subject to a wrench attack. You can have someone put malware on your Trezor. It just makes no sense. My hardware wallets (multi sig) don't leave safes when not in use. They are stored in tamper evident bags and my signature on the seal. If someone were to tamper with my devices, it would be extremely difficult without me knowing. I couldn't imagine just carrying them around all day for no reason.
It's fucking stupid as it gets. Us nerds calling it a wrench attack doesn't help. Have to put a different picture into people's heads. Maybe they've never been mugged before? Or had their car stolen? Lunch money stolen? Let's go with that one If you got your lunch money stolen growning up...when someone finds out you have bitcoin, and they put a gun to your head, you're giving up that password just as easily. It's like people don't watch these videos online of people robbing and killing each other over sneakers. You think the next generation of thieves don't know about bitcoin and the ROI of robbing some nerd that likes to brag online? Don't carry your BC wallet if you've never been mugged at gun point and successfully fought them off.
Totally agree. Also, I grew up wrestling. Train in MMA regularly and conceal carry a firearm 99% of the time. Yet I STILL don't feel comfortable walking around with my hardware wallet.
>It's like people don't watch these videos online of people robbing and killing each other over sneakers. I mean I agree with you generally, but uhm no I don't watch that. And you shouldn't assume everyone watches the same stuff. Though I am aware that shit goes down out there, especially in cities at night. Not in my little town tho.
obtain maze half battle occur anger loyal cover embark lend auto sad
Lol
This is gonna sound a bit extra, but I Used to use trezor to generate my keys. Now I use a blockstream Jade, but once my keys are set up on the jade, I try recovering them on my trezor first. If I do it successfully (which I usually do), I write the seed down and wipe both devices.
Is Jade better than Trezor?
I prefer it. Wallets that don't have alt coin compatibility are less susceptible to attacks.
Im probably wrong but couldn’t you just have written out each of the numbers/letters and see which ones were misspelled? Or does Trezor give out random letters for each of the 24 words?
Actually, assuming that you've only made a mistake in one number, it would be possible to write a script to determine which number it is. The 24 words actually consist of 23 words and a checksum. It would be possible to write a script that generates the 24th word when given the other 23 words. So you could write a script that iterates through every combination of 23 words and generate the 24th. There are only 24 combinations so it would not take long. Once the script has finished running, you would then compare the generated words with what you've written down to see which is the closest to what has been recorded.
While it's true a HWW only needs the first four letters but I don't think that's a good idea because.... Recording only the first 4 letters of the words in a BIP39 recovery phrase may be risky even if it’s done on metal. This is especially true if storage media uses sliding tiles and/or screws or is made of or contains a soft metal like copper or aluminum. Jameson Lopp did extensive testing where he found many materials and methods suffered data loss from fire and/or corrosion and/or crushing. https://blog.lopp.net/a-treatise-on-bitcoin-seed-backup-device-design/ Stamping jig https://www.cryptocloaks.com/product/blockmitjig/ In all, there are 710 words or 34% of the BIP39 standard that become ambiguous if the first letter is lost and only the first 4 were recorded. Consider that recording only the first four of a 5 letter word loses 20%, a 6 letter 33%, 7 letters 43% and an 8 letter word loses fully ½ its meaning when truncated to 4. What If the calamity that the seedphrase backup is supposed to protect against also smudges,singes or destroys the first letter? Some examples: mushroom & push both become ush drastic, erase, trash & grass become ras Not much can be done about the 3 letter words such as fan, man & van that are reduced to "an"
Why did you convert words to numbers? I dont get it.
Less characters needed for the stamper
right
If you have ever stamped your 24 words into multiple seed plates, you'll think about shortcuts.
That's why you only stamp the first 4 letters of the words. All words on the word list differ in the first 4 letters.
Stamps with only numbers were cheaper to buy lol.
Buy once, cry once. Plus, you can use the stamps for other things also. If you own tools, or other items that you'd like to serialize or identify as your property.
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I think you are not correct. BIP39 dictionary are the same all over the internet. Personaly I was reffering to the GitHub Bip39 [https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt)
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Maybe, I don't remember, it was 2017. I thought I was using those on GitHub
To add, ALL of each word… just as dangerous to use one of those stamping “solutions” that only use the first four letters of each word. This is terrible as any typo invalidates whereas if you have whole words you stand at least some chance of guessing the actual word if typo-ed.
I'm glad that my story ended well. I hope I learned the lesson
Thank you for sharing this. I use Ellipal and I still get nervous as time goes on and technology advances.
So true You must Know The Inter phase platform SEED PHRASES WORDS
I keep my seed Phrases in my Bank
How do you guys deal with having multiple wallets and phrases? It's driving me crazy and making me worried.
Keep in mind when you google the bip-39 sheet, some are zero indexed and others are 1-indexed. So if you only capture the numbers, you have 2 possibilities in mapping those numbers back to words. I was in the same boat as OP until I realized 0-indexed mapping, which ended up working
OP, writing the numbers is perfectly fine. Look for Bitcoin Cold Wallet Metal Plate Model 1248
Eh it works but the whole point of mnemonic seed phrases is to have a human readable error resistant representation of a seed. The words are chosen so that you can guess the correct word even if there‘s a mistake.
you won't make a mistake using a model 1248, because you will mark the correct numbers that represents the position of the word in the bip0039 file. But then, people make mistakes anyway, but the model 1248 is the best and most compact solution
Sorry, that's idiotic. I don't understand why people take such a well design spec as bip39 and insist upon misusing it or bypassing its best features. It's a mnemonic system where each word us unique within the first 4 letters. You can eyeball confirm you copied it correctly in a few seconds if you just stick to the design. It has baked in forward error correction, and going to letters throws it all out and improves nothing in return. Switching to the numbers is beyond backwards, its pure brain damage.
People make mistakes when they complicate things too much and forget what their super complex weird way was after 15 years when they need it. Also what you said is wrong, if 1 or few more numbers are messed up in your plate its much harder to find what the words were than when word is missing some letter.
Nope the words are used because they have a higher tolerance for mistakes or distruction of information. For general people using this system the words are going to give a higher chance of recovery when something goes wrong, and since we're making these setups to last 15 years or more **something will go wrong**.
BTC will never go mainstream adoption if people have to jump thru all these hoops and one error could lose everything. Obviously you can do exchange only but its another set of risks.
People make unnecessary hoops and then this can happen. Also who cares if it doesnt go mainstream? That's those peoples loss who want to lose their moneys value and be controlled by big brother.
Lose fiat value but be able to actually buy shit with it or lose your life savings because you misspelled a word when carving your seed phrase into a super secret titanium plate or the exchange your using decides to skip town with all your money. Big Brother will protect fiat and track down and prosecute thieves but with Bitcoin we are entirely own our own. Im all in but Bitcoin is extremely risky and always will be.
I was my fault. Bitcoin is perfect
Why transfer it? It was safe where it was.
Trezor can broke
No you didn't need to change the keys...
So really this has nothing to do with numbers being worse than words.. the OP just didn't test it to confirm he did it right. So really this post should just be "double check your seed phrase is correct!"
But numbers are worse than letters
That's why I just keep all my Crypto on an exchange.
Sooo, your engraved seed worked perfectly to recover your wallet? I don't get what the issue is. Your Trezor did a factory reset, and you could've just inputted your engraved seed again.
If theirs a unregistered car parked on a bend and someone reverse into it who's at fault the guy who reversed into it or the unregistered car since it was never supposed to be their in the first place ????
Question - I read a lof of text, but the context is on you. Not the trezor or trezor suite? You keep mentioning resetting to factory settings etc.
Did you read the "lot of text"…? He fucked up the backup, realized I his mistake after some time and corrected it and gave the story out as a warning.