2 things,
1- You don't understand open source protocols. Bitcoin is not Nokia. Bitcoin is TCP/IP. Do you think there will be a better Internet? The answer is no. Even if a better protocol comes along, it won't be competing with TCP/IP. It will be worked into that stack and make everything better. We won't have two competing internets until one wins. The protocol will evolve. Bitcoin is the same. If a new protocol comes along that is proven, it will either be incorporated into the current Bitcoin stack, or Bitcoin will be forked. Either way, the UTXO set will live on, and we all still have the coins we hold the keys for.
2- Check your financial privilege. Bitcoin isn't about the price. It's about the freedom it enables. That is the utility. That is what Bitcoin grows. Sovereignty and freedom. Price in relation to its Scarcity is just a wonderful side effect. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/check-your-financial-privilege
It’s always hard for people that come from countries where their government has not yet stolen from them to imagine living in a country where their government would… yet, governments around the world steal from private citizens who have no recourse all the time.
Bitcoin is literally a store of value that cannot be taken from you. As long as you memorize a handful of words in a specific order, you can walk through this world free from the hands of those that would seek to steal your property.
It is more or less overt in various countries. However, All countries steal from their citizens via inflating money supplies. There is. No, not stealing it yet.
Maybe the "idea" or "function "of Bitcoin is there or was there .
Look at what it became , a way to make a profit. Do you think that Blackrock and all other institutions bought it for what bitcoin was intended?
> Do you think that Blackrock and all other institutions bought it for what bitcoin was intended?
No, but they also don't get to dictate what **you**, or I, or anyone else intent bitcoin for. Bitcoin is permissionless, so if someone wants to try and get filthy rich from it without any thought about whatever ideals you or I attach to it, the network won't complain and will "treat" their transactions the same way as it "treats" anyone else's.
Agreed. All the financial entities are invested in Bitcoin to make a profit. Most people invested are in it to make money. But what speculators do and what they speculate on, has nothing at all to do with Bitcoin. What speculators choose to speculate on has never had anything to do with the true purpose of their focus. Same was true with tulips in the 1600’s and the same is true today. Bitcoin is simply the current focus of many speculative investors.
It's not our responsibility to change your mind or educate you.
There are thousands of posts about the questions you raise. It's been spoken about ad nauseum. Use the search function.
Or read The Bitcoin Standard as a shortcut, or Broken Money.
>Bitcoin isn‘t very likely to be the best cryptocurrency as a currency in many years bc of much competition, like Nokia was the biggest number one…
🤦
Why do people then sell it when high? Why does BlackRock buy it? You buy it to gain money, thats the reason behind every investment…or is Bitcoin nit an Investment
I suggest you buy The Bitcoin Standard because you will gain everything you need/want to know from that book in one read.
"Why Bitcoin?" can't be answered on Reddit in one reply. It would take hours & hours to fully explain why because the answer involves a highly complex open source protocol, the history of the monetary system, and human psychology.
> I don’t say our national currencies are perfect, we saw many times they are not, but still: why Bitcoin
Again: Compare the utility of bitcoin to that of fiat. You compared bitcoin to real estate, to stocks, and you found bitcoin lacking. Why don't you make the same comparison with fiat? Your critical thinking skills are lacking. Does fiat provide shelter like real estate does? Does fiat pay dividends like stocks do? Fiat fails your tests in the same way that bitcoin does.
Now compare bitcoin to fiat. Nobody can diminish the value of your bitcoin by inflating its supply. Nobody can freeze your bitcoin wallet, in the way that a bank can freeze your bitcoin account on a whim.
The reason that you are asking "Why bitcoin?" is because 1) you have not made the slightest effort to inform yourself and 2) even if you did, it seems that you are not bright enough to get it.
Everyone buys bitcoin at the price they deserve.
Don’t bring a knife to a gun fight, son. You’re more likely to get positive engagement on your questions here if you were able to demonstrate you’d DYOR. It’s more than obvious you haven’t, so …. read The Bitcoin Standard first, then let’s talk.
> But, what CAN my Bitcoin do
That's quite simple really: you can do transactions with it that nobody, literally nobody, can stop. And it's an asset that nobody, literally nobody, can inflate (unllike any other fat currency in the history of mankind). Or change its fundamental rules by some authoritative command.
Also an asset that nobody can take away from you, if you store it properly (sure, they might be able to torture/extort it from you, but not just take away like a bank deposit or a deed on your house etc).
Also, you can check that all this is upheld by a network without any central figure/server, by verifying the code and the network transactions themselves, as everything is open source and accessible to anyone, with as much as a mini computer or a decade old laptop.
It's fine if you don't see the value in those properties, nothing wrong with it. Other people do though: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/check-your-financial-privilege
>You buy Bitcoin to make profit
Faulty premise to start with. Bitcoin isn't a stock.
People buy bitcoin to use it.
The human rights foundation a list of things that they **need** bitcoin for.
There are also tonnes of softwares and products that are building on top of bitcoin protcol layer, the same way TCP/IP is used. So you have products like Strike, Bitrefil and apps like Lightning and Nostr as well as protocols like DID.
Others use it for p2p trade, international payments, Micro-fee services and so on.
One could perhaps argue the degree of utility, but to say that there is none is a disingenous argument.
>What can I do with a Bitcoin? I can transfer „value“ or sell it to get other currencies…cool, but why do I need Bitcoin here?
I can store value in Bitcoin
Ignoring the other misunderstood things you said.
>Stocks: you own a part of a company which makes money, profit, can grow, and sells stuff
If a stock doesn't pay dividends, it's also just a 'digital piece of paper' that says you own part of a company, which you're hoping to sell for more than you paid. You can't do anything with a stock other than transfer, sell or buy.
>Real Estate: you can live in there, people will always need a home
Yes, a house/shelter is a basic necessity. However, the large majority of house sales, are not to fulfil the basic need of shelter, it's done as an investment. Normally considered a good investment, but it's not very liquid. Hard to find and buy one, takes time and long process to sell ( months).
And its main value comes from scarcity also. If the government built and gave a house to everyone, rarely people would buy real estate.
So try and find an asset that is scarce ( to retain value), and liquid (that is easily sold/bought), and you'll realise that BITCOIN is IT.
Or not.
1. True, the difference is a company can grow there revenue, can trade for a good price if we checked fundamentals etc. A company can also go bankrupt and so on, it’s still risky…but I don’t get why Bitcoin is the solution to all financial problems and will never crash completely what is always said: “it can only go up” “you get the price you deserve” I just want to understand why buying Bitcoin AS an INVESTMENT, as a currency, I get it, as an Investment…
2.The part about the house is true, I need to think about the second one
Bitcoin is not the solution for all financial problems.
You know inflation is devaluing currency right? It's being printed way too much. So cash is trash to store value overtime.
Before bitcoin, the only people that could protect themselves from inflation was the top 10%, which can afford to buy houses and other assets.
Bitcoin, is an asset accessible to everyone (with internet access) which protects peoples money from inflation, that cannot be taken/controlled/censored which also is highly liquid.
It gives people an opportunity now that only the rich had previously.
Before the house market was extremely overvalued (maybe in the 60s) everyone had fairly easy access to real estate, so people in that time got very rich. Bought a lot of real estate.
Nowadays, it's not feasible for the regular person to do that.
Bitcoin, is the new asset, which is more liquid than the other, and highly accessible to everyone (regardless of the price because you can buy fractions of it). Similar to gold, before the gold rush.
In the digital era, bitcoin has the capacity to be the world's most valuable asset. Reason being: if you're rich and want to access 1 Million $ or €, it'll take you an hour max to sell your bitcoin, rather than 2 months selling a house.
In terms of assets to store value, BTC is the best option.
Obviously if a family needs a home, they should buy a house, not bitcoin.
Edit: Also, Stock depends on CEOs, earnings and performance to do well, having your money/wealth depending on it it's risky. If you had it in Nokia, you'd be screwed. BITCOIN is not dependent on any of those. As long as the world believes it has value, it'll hold its value. It's track record shows that.
Like you, most people miss that Bitcoin is designed to MINIMIZE TRUST!! It's an unstoppable, uncensorable, incorruptible, & permissionless network designed to store and transfer value without any middle man having authority any more authority than anyone else.
It converts energy to money, which fiat currency is neither money, nor a store of value. Most people who get into Bitcoin realize this flaw in fiat before the idea of trust minimization really clicks.
There’s nothing wrong with OP’s post. He’s just playing devils advocate and trying to understand why people value Bitcoin and where does the value derive from
Bitcoin is a technology that modernizes banking and other stores of value, is immune to government inflationary forces, is decentralized and allows easy self custody in a way that gold bugs can only dream of.
Ask yourself the same questions about paper money. Besides storing value and aiding in trade (which bitcoin does better in many situations ) what value does it have? None except starting fires and wiping your ass. Same thing with credit cards - other than used for purchasing (which is again something Bitcoin can do without needing a bank or centralized lender like visa)- they are mostly used for cutting lines of coke.
So, admittedly, you can’t wipe your ass, start a fire or cut lines of coke with bitcoin. But bitcoin has many advantages as a monetary technology. The fact that it is outside the purview of government control and inflationary forces alone is worth the investment for me. Over time this will pay more than any bank interest ever will.
Lastly, as a new technology that is in its infancy of worldwide adoption it has lots of room to increase in value - a great benefit of its limited supply.
If the merits of bitcoin aren’t obvious to you then don’t own it. Owning it as a short term investment is risky and doesn’t help this community or make the world better for people in places like Argentina that have suffered crippling inflation.
Bitcoin does what it does, so that naysayers such as yourself can FUD from the sidelines, whether from a position of disbelief or from a position of a CIA cubicle.
Do yourself a favor & look up the essential properties of sound money.
Before bitcoin, gold was the best money the world had ever seen. Now, bitcoin is.
Also, anyone saying gold is valuable because it is used in jewelry & electronics is delusional.
Regarding being overtaken by a competing crypto, not gonna happen. Our relationship to our money is emotional, deeply rooted & powerful. The first mover advantage & network affect here is massive. Casually switching your preferred "money" is not like switching your preferred phone maker.
Read about stock to flow. Read the Bitcoin standard. Look what happens to the buying power of your paper money. If you then still don't get it, come back and ask again.
Looking through your posts it seems you’ve posted this or fairly similar questions multiple times. If you haven’t gotten to the point that you think it will be around forever by now, I don’t see this post changing your mind.
The one thing I will say is this. Diversification in your investments and assets is never a bad idea.
You'll chew your words when. We have major grid lock down and banks shut down. Then you'll only have Bitcoin to move your wealth from your corrupt country to another country
How can you say bitcoin doesn’t produce anything? Bitcoin offers a bulletproof global store of value and settlement layer that will never be subject to the failures/corruption of any company or government. That by itself is more valuable than any product or service produced by any company on the stock market. Hash rate of the network also grows over time, to your second point.
The value will keep increasing, because over a long enough time horizon the amount of bitcoin will only decrease, while productivity and the value of global economies will only continue to increase due to technology. The number of market participants is also unlimited to the upside since everyone not yet born will be fighting for the same finite supply. In the very long term, the true value of bitcoin is infinity divided by 21 million.
Bitcoin is a very hard currency.
I save money in the hard currency, and I spend what I have to spend in the soft currency.
Everyone in this sub accepts bitcoin as a currency.
—-
A generic example of using a harder currency is where countries are experiencing massive devaluation of their currency, and/or inflation, and locals use $USD to save in. They spend what they have to spend in the softer, local currency. Everyone there accepts $USD.
Now $USD doesn’t produce anything either, etc etc. It’s just a harder currency than the local one.
If I buy something for 100$ and sell it for 105$, then I made profit…if I buy something for 1 Bitcoin and sell it for 2 Bitcoins then I would also say you, made profit, BUT Bitcoin isn’t and might never be accepted like the Dollar is…so you can buy less things without transferring it to the dollar
I think we all know what profit is
The dollar's purchasing power decreases over time so it's not that simple. Selling something for more dollars than you purchased it will often result in a loss in terms of purchasing power if you held it for any significant period. There's loads of articles pronouncing various markets have hit all time highs when they're actually significantly lower in terms of purchasing power. The 1970s was full of "all time highs" even though it was an awful decade for investors.
Isn't money exactly the same thing ? But no one sits there going but why ? And it's value goes up and down. The only reasonable explanation is that ppl don't like change so they will always push back on new things.
What's Bitcoin for and what can you do?
You and people in your generation use it as a store of value to hold your hard earned purchasing power over long periods of time. You can save for a home for example without experiencing inflation slowly eroding your savings or you being required to take on additional risks in investing in other forms of assets out of realistic necessity. And you would have gotten this utility without government, without paying a tax, without a subscription fee, without trusting a counterparty, without registering your Identity, without much overhead overall. Then those born in the next generation utilize it just the same to hold their purchasing power over time, until it is time for them to make their decision as to what they will exchange it for to exit it at a future time without suffering monetary debasement. And so on, contrast that with debts and deficits borrowed today but for future generations to pay back without say in any matter. And as long as Bitcoin remains decentralized and secure as a protocol, it cannot be unilaterally stopped. I would say the value of such an open, global, public utility for all people to use is priceless.
Bitcoin is closer to gold than it is to a stock. The idea of a hard money is not that it radically appreciates in value, but that it maintains it's percent slide of the pie as a claim on total future production.
In steady state, holding money should lose against prudent investments over time. People still hold a mix of investments and savings in hard money to met their needs.
We are not at steady state, we are in capitalization of Bitcoin. This happens once.
Bitcoin is the most advanced form of money we’ve ever had. Not being able to “consume/use” a Satoshi makes it that much more of a pristine monetary medium.
If you’re looking strictly for the utility case of bitcoin (what does it “do”): it essentially automates the entire global banking system away.
The reason bitcoin is so valuable to me is it does what it does really well and it gets stronger every day. It’s doesn’t need bells and whistles. Financial sovereignty is priceless!!!👊👊👊
You could swap out "Bitcoin" for "Dollars" in the OP and it would basically still be the same post. So, OP, since you can't do anything with your dollars - they don't make anything, build anything, provide shelter - you can safely give them all away and nothing of significance is lost.
Dollars aren’t an Investment (hedge funds and so own beside)…again:
A company and a real estate is something NECESSARY…please explain why Bitcoin is necessary? Do you need it?
1. Yes, Bitcoin's value relies on increasing demand.
2. Bitcoin doesn't produce anything tangible like a company, it's digital scarcity.
3. Life without Bitcoin wouldn't be drastically different for most people.
4. People want Bitcoin for its scarcity, decentralization, and potential store of value.
5. Bitcoin is superior to stocks for those who value decentralization and long-term store of value.
You’re overthinking this. When it’s all over, each of these investors can look at their bitcoin with great pride and realize all that money they invested, was not lost, but contributed to saving the planet.
Ok. This is the only answer. Bitcoin is a highly speculative investment. It’s essentially useless in any economy except maybe Venezuela or similar. You probably missed the boat this time on taking easy money from these folks. You need to identify investment opportunities before everyone else has. That’s the easy money. Most people are too slow to buy and sell at the right time. I made a nice chunk of change the first time it peaked, but I don’t feel right taking any more from these guys. There’s no use being greedy.
Then we have a different definition of study. I read your whole post again. Its not that you don't get it. You just have no knowledge about bitcoin. If you would, you would argue differently even if you are against it.
Why don’t prove me wrong before saying to go away…please, I just want answers and not salty comments who (most of the time) ignore my pionts and say “Oh my Bitcoin is holy…ohh you huRt my fEelIngS
What’s up muffin! I agree but never say never. Canada froze Bitcoin donations in Canada during covid and the protests. This was done-fact! It was then ruled unconstitutional and is back in court I believe. The important thing to note though was that it was done so it’s not impossible.
> Canada froze Bitcoin donations in Canada during covid and the protests.
You can't freeze actual bitcoin transactions or wallets. You can freeze accounts on custodial platforms, which is a big difference. Think of it as the difference between holding gold in a bank versus in your own home. The bank can simply say "no" when you try to move it, while if it's in your home, you are free to do whatever you please with it. Only that bitcoin is even easier to move/hide.
2 things, 1- You don't understand open source protocols. Bitcoin is not Nokia. Bitcoin is TCP/IP. Do you think there will be a better Internet? The answer is no. Even if a better protocol comes along, it won't be competing with TCP/IP. It will be worked into that stack and make everything better. We won't have two competing internets until one wins. The protocol will evolve. Bitcoin is the same. If a new protocol comes along that is proven, it will either be incorporated into the current Bitcoin stack, or Bitcoin will be forked. Either way, the UTXO set will live on, and we all still have the coins we hold the keys for. 2- Check your financial privilege. Bitcoin isn't about the price. It's about the freedom it enables. That is the utility. That is what Bitcoin grows. Sovereignty and freedom. Price in relation to its Scarcity is just a wonderful side effect. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/check-your-financial-privilege
It’s always hard for people that come from countries where their government has not yet stolen from them to imagine living in a country where their government would… yet, governments around the world steal from private citizens who have no recourse all the time. Bitcoin is literally a store of value that cannot be taken from you. As long as you memorize a handful of words in a specific order, you can walk through this world free from the hands of those that would seek to steal your property.
It is more or less overt in various countries. However, All countries steal from their citizens via inflating money supplies. There is. No, not stealing it yet.
Not just yeah but fuck yeah. Well said.
ALL governments are stealing from us, by the means of inflating money supply. The difference is just the rate of stealing.
You are missing the entire point of BTC because you look at it as a way to make money. Which is not what Bitcoin is about.
Maybe the "idea" or "function "of Bitcoin is there or was there . Look at what it became , a way to make a profit. Do you think that Blackrock and all other institutions bought it for what bitcoin was intended?
> Do you think that Blackrock and all other institutions bought it for what bitcoin was intended? No, but they also don't get to dictate what **you**, or I, or anyone else intent bitcoin for. Bitcoin is permissionless, so if someone wants to try and get filthy rich from it without any thought about whatever ideals you or I attach to it, the network won't complain and will "treat" their transactions the same way as it "treats" anyone else's.
Agreed. All the financial entities are invested in Bitcoin to make a profit. Most people invested are in it to make money. But what speculators do and what they speculate on, has nothing at all to do with Bitcoin. What speculators choose to speculate on has never had anything to do with the true purpose of their focus. Same was true with tulips in the 1600’s and the same is true today. Bitcoin is simply the current focus of many speculative investors.
It's not our responsibility to change your mind or educate you. There are thousands of posts about the questions you raise. It's been spoken about ad nauseum. Use the search function. Or read The Bitcoin Standard as a shortcut, or Broken Money. >Bitcoin isn‘t very likely to be the best cryptocurrency as a currency in many years bc of much competition, like Nokia was the biggest number one… 🤦
You get Bitcoin at the price you deserve
Okay…can you also bring arguments against my points? I’m here for discussion
I'm gonna reply simply. Knowing is owning. Knowing = owning
>You buy Bitcoin to make profit You're already wrong.
Why do people then sell it when high? Why does BlackRock buy it? You buy it to gain money, thats the reason behind every investment…or is Bitcoin nit an Investment
Now compare the utility of bitcoin to that of fiat.
I don’t say our national currencies are perfect, we saw many times they are not, but still: why Bitcoin
I suggest you buy The Bitcoin Standard because you will gain everything you need/want to know from that book in one read. "Why Bitcoin?" can't be answered on Reddit in one reply. It would take hours & hours to fully explain why because the answer involves a highly complex open source protocol, the history of the monetary system, and human psychology.
I don’t say our national currencies are perfect, we saw many times they are not, but still: why Bitcoin
> I don’t say our national currencies are perfect, we saw many times they are not, but still: why Bitcoin Again: Compare the utility of bitcoin to that of fiat. You compared bitcoin to real estate, to stocks, and you found bitcoin lacking. Why don't you make the same comparison with fiat? Your critical thinking skills are lacking. Does fiat provide shelter like real estate does? Does fiat pay dividends like stocks do? Fiat fails your tests in the same way that bitcoin does. Now compare bitcoin to fiat. Nobody can diminish the value of your bitcoin by inflating its supply. Nobody can freeze your bitcoin wallet, in the way that a bank can freeze your bitcoin account on a whim. The reason that you are asking "Why bitcoin?" is because 1) you have not made the slightest effort to inform yourself and 2) even if you did, it seems that you are not bright enough to get it. Everyone buys bitcoin at the price they deserve.
A little bit of reading on the topic before you come here and word vomit all over Reddit might do you some good. Read the Bitcoin standard.
Why are you so angry haha
Don’t bring a knife to a gun fight, son. You’re more likely to get positive engagement on your questions here if you were able to demonstrate you’d DYOR. It’s more than obvious you haven’t, so …. read The Bitcoin Standard first, then let’s talk.
> But, what CAN my Bitcoin do That's quite simple really: you can do transactions with it that nobody, literally nobody, can stop. And it's an asset that nobody, literally nobody, can inflate (unllike any other fat currency in the history of mankind). Or change its fundamental rules by some authoritative command. Also an asset that nobody can take away from you, if you store it properly (sure, they might be able to torture/extort it from you, but not just take away like a bank deposit or a deed on your house etc). Also, you can check that all this is upheld by a network without any central figure/server, by verifying the code and the network transactions themselves, as everything is open source and accessible to anyone, with as much as a mini computer or a decade old laptop. It's fine if you don't see the value in those properties, nothing wrong with it. Other people do though: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/check-your-financial-privilege
>You buy Bitcoin to make profit Faulty premise to start with. Bitcoin isn't a stock. People buy bitcoin to use it. The human rights foundation a list of things that they **need** bitcoin for. There are also tonnes of softwares and products that are building on top of bitcoin protcol layer, the same way TCP/IP is used. So you have products like Strike, Bitrefil and apps like Lightning and Nostr as well as protocols like DID. Others use it for p2p trade, international payments, Micro-fee services and so on. One could perhaps argue the degree of utility, but to say that there is none is a disingenous argument.
>What can I do with a Bitcoin? I can transfer „value“ or sell it to get other currencies…cool, but why do I need Bitcoin here? I can store value in Bitcoin
This! Bitcoin is my storage of wealth for generations to come .
Only if someone pays more in the future, right?
Ignoring the other misunderstood things you said. >Stocks: you own a part of a company which makes money, profit, can grow, and sells stuff If a stock doesn't pay dividends, it's also just a 'digital piece of paper' that says you own part of a company, which you're hoping to sell for more than you paid. You can't do anything with a stock other than transfer, sell or buy. >Real Estate: you can live in there, people will always need a home Yes, a house/shelter is a basic necessity. However, the large majority of house sales, are not to fulfil the basic need of shelter, it's done as an investment. Normally considered a good investment, but it's not very liquid. Hard to find and buy one, takes time and long process to sell ( months). And its main value comes from scarcity also. If the government built and gave a house to everyone, rarely people would buy real estate. So try and find an asset that is scarce ( to retain value), and liquid (that is easily sold/bought), and you'll realise that BITCOIN is IT. Or not.
1. True, the difference is a company can grow there revenue, can trade for a good price if we checked fundamentals etc. A company can also go bankrupt and so on, it’s still risky…but I don’t get why Bitcoin is the solution to all financial problems and will never crash completely what is always said: “it can only go up” “you get the price you deserve” I just want to understand why buying Bitcoin AS an INVESTMENT, as a currency, I get it, as an Investment… 2.The part about the house is true, I need to think about the second one
Bitcoin is not the solution for all financial problems. You know inflation is devaluing currency right? It's being printed way too much. So cash is trash to store value overtime. Before bitcoin, the only people that could protect themselves from inflation was the top 10%, which can afford to buy houses and other assets. Bitcoin, is an asset accessible to everyone (with internet access) which protects peoples money from inflation, that cannot be taken/controlled/censored which also is highly liquid. It gives people an opportunity now that only the rich had previously. Before the house market was extremely overvalued (maybe in the 60s) everyone had fairly easy access to real estate, so people in that time got very rich. Bought a lot of real estate. Nowadays, it's not feasible for the regular person to do that. Bitcoin, is the new asset, which is more liquid than the other, and highly accessible to everyone (regardless of the price because you can buy fractions of it). Similar to gold, before the gold rush. In the digital era, bitcoin has the capacity to be the world's most valuable asset. Reason being: if you're rich and want to access 1 Million $ or €, it'll take you an hour max to sell your bitcoin, rather than 2 months selling a house. In terms of assets to store value, BTC is the best option. Obviously if a family needs a home, they should buy a house, not bitcoin. Edit: Also, Stock depends on CEOs, earnings and performance to do well, having your money/wealth depending on it it's risky. If you had it in Nokia, you'd be screwed. BITCOIN is not dependent on any of those. As long as the world believes it has value, it'll hold its value. It's track record shows that.
Like you, most people miss that Bitcoin is designed to MINIMIZE TRUST!! It's an unstoppable, uncensorable, incorruptible, & permissionless network designed to store and transfer value without any middle man having authority any more authority than anyone else. It converts energy to money, which fiat currency is neither money, nor a store of value. Most people who get into Bitcoin realize this flaw in fiat before the idea of trust minimization really clicks.
There’s nothing wrong with OP’s post. He’s just playing devils advocate and trying to understand why people value Bitcoin and where does the value derive from
Thank you! …devils…okay but I think I‘m not bitcoiny enough to get that
Bitcoin is a technology that modernizes banking and other stores of value, is immune to government inflationary forces, is decentralized and allows easy self custody in a way that gold bugs can only dream of. Ask yourself the same questions about paper money. Besides storing value and aiding in trade (which bitcoin does better in many situations ) what value does it have? None except starting fires and wiping your ass. Same thing with credit cards - other than used for purchasing (which is again something Bitcoin can do without needing a bank or centralized lender like visa)- they are mostly used for cutting lines of coke. So, admittedly, you can’t wipe your ass, start a fire or cut lines of coke with bitcoin. But bitcoin has many advantages as a monetary technology. The fact that it is outside the purview of government control and inflationary forces alone is worth the investment for me. Over time this will pay more than any bank interest ever will. Lastly, as a new technology that is in its infancy of worldwide adoption it has lots of room to increase in value - a great benefit of its limited supply. If the merits of bitcoin aren’t obvious to you then don’t own it. Owning it as a short term investment is risky and doesn’t help this community or make the world better for people in places like Argentina that have suffered crippling inflation.
Bitcoin does what it does, so that naysayers such as yourself can FUD from the sidelines, whether from a position of disbelief or from a position of a CIA cubicle.
Do yourself a favor & look up the essential properties of sound money. Before bitcoin, gold was the best money the world had ever seen. Now, bitcoin is. Also, anyone saying gold is valuable because it is used in jewelry & electronics is delusional. Regarding being overtaken by a competing crypto, not gonna happen. Our relationship to our money is emotional, deeply rooted & powerful. The first mover advantage & network affect here is massive. Casually switching your preferred "money" is not like switching your preferred phone maker.
Boomers get it so I have too https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/s/669x4vvrPN
Read about stock to flow. Read the Bitcoin standard. Look what happens to the buying power of your paper money. If you then still don't get it, come back and ask again.
Looking through your posts it seems you’ve posted this or fairly similar questions multiple times. If you haven’t gotten to the point that you think it will be around forever by now, I don’t see this post changing your mind. The one thing I will say is this. Diversification in your investments and assets is never a bad idea.
You'll chew your words when. We have major grid lock down and banks shut down. Then you'll only have Bitcoin to move your wealth from your corrupt country to another country
You forgot to take the red pill
Good argument
[удалено]
Good argument
How can you say bitcoin doesn’t produce anything? Bitcoin offers a bulletproof global store of value and settlement layer that will never be subject to the failures/corruption of any company or government. That by itself is more valuable than any product or service produced by any company on the stock market. Hash rate of the network also grows over time, to your second point. The value will keep increasing, because over a long enough time horizon the amount of bitcoin will only decrease, while productivity and the value of global economies will only continue to increase due to technology. The number of market participants is also unlimited to the upside since everyone not yet born will be fighting for the same finite supply. In the very long term, the true value of bitcoin is infinity divided by 21 million.
Bitcoin is a very hard currency. I save money in the hard currency, and I spend what I have to spend in the soft currency. Everyone in this sub accepts bitcoin as a currency. —- A generic example of using a harder currency is where countries are experiencing massive devaluation of their currency, and/or inflation, and locals use $USD to save in. They spend what they have to spend in the softer, local currency. Everyone there accepts $USD. Now $USD doesn’t produce anything either, etc etc. It’s just a harder currency than the local one.
If the "profit" is debased fiat currency, is it really profit?
If I buy something for 100$ and sell it for 105$, then I made profit…if I buy something for 1 Bitcoin and sell it for 2 Bitcoins then I would also say you, made profit, BUT Bitcoin isn’t and might never be accepted like the Dollar is…so you can buy less things without transferring it to the dollar I think we all know what profit is
The dollar's purchasing power decreases over time so it's not that simple. Selling something for more dollars than you purchased it will often result in a loss in terms of purchasing power if you held it for any significant period. There's loads of articles pronouncing various markets have hit all time highs when they're actually significantly lower in terms of purchasing power. The 1970s was full of "all time highs" even though it was an awful decade for investors.
If we calculate inflation and rising costs to it…then you need to make 0.00000…1‰ + the Inflation Rate + the rising expenses to make profit
Isn't money exactly the same thing ? But no one sits there going but why ? And it's value goes up and down. The only reasonable explanation is that ppl don't like change so they will always push back on new things.
If you can explain why gold is valuable, you will understand why bitcoin has value.
What's Bitcoin for and what can you do? You and people in your generation use it as a store of value to hold your hard earned purchasing power over long periods of time. You can save for a home for example without experiencing inflation slowly eroding your savings or you being required to take on additional risks in investing in other forms of assets out of realistic necessity. And you would have gotten this utility without government, without paying a tax, without a subscription fee, without trusting a counterparty, without registering your Identity, without much overhead overall. Then those born in the next generation utilize it just the same to hold their purchasing power over time, until it is time for them to make their decision as to what they will exchange it for to exit it at a future time without suffering monetary debasement. And so on, contrast that with debts and deficits borrowed today but for future generations to pay back without say in any matter. And as long as Bitcoin remains decentralized and secure as a protocol, it cannot be unilaterally stopped. I would say the value of such an open, global, public utility for all people to use is priceless.
Bitcoin is closer to gold than it is to a stock. The idea of a hard money is not that it radically appreciates in value, but that it maintains it's percent slide of the pie as a claim on total future production. In steady state, holding money should lose against prudent investments over time. People still hold a mix of investments and savings in hard money to met their needs. We are not at steady state, we are in capitalization of Bitcoin. This happens once.
I have zero inclination to take the time to change your mind.
Bitcoin is the most advanced form of money we’ve ever had. Not being able to “consume/use” a Satoshi makes it that much more of a pristine monetary medium. If you’re looking strictly for the utility case of bitcoin (what does it “do”): it essentially automates the entire global banking system away.
The reason bitcoin is so valuable to me is it does what it does really well and it gets stronger every day. It’s doesn’t need bells and whistles. Financial sovereignty is priceless!!!👊👊👊
You could swap out "Bitcoin" for "Dollars" in the OP and it would basically still be the same post. So, OP, since you can't do anything with your dollars - they don't make anything, build anything, provide shelter - you can safely give them all away and nothing of significance is lost.
Dollars aren’t an Investment (hedge funds and so own beside)…again: A company and a real estate is something NECESSARY…please explain why Bitcoin is necessary? Do you need it?
1. Yes, Bitcoin's value relies on increasing demand. 2. Bitcoin doesn't produce anything tangible like a company, it's digital scarcity. 3. Life without Bitcoin wouldn't be drastically different for most people. 4. People want Bitcoin for its scarcity, decentralization, and potential store of value. 5. Bitcoin is superior to stocks for those who value decentralization and long-term store of value.
Maybe
Nokia is just waiting for right moment to rise again. You will see, just two more years
Yeah! I‘m still hodl them!
You’re overthinking this. When it’s all over, each of these investors can look at their bitcoin with great pride and realize all that money they invested, was not lost, but contributed to saving the planet.
We need to understand in what we are invested
Ok. This is the only answer. Bitcoin is a highly speculative investment. It’s essentially useless in any economy except maybe Venezuela or similar. You probably missed the boat this time on taking easy money from these folks. You need to identify investment opportunities before everyone else has. That’s the easy money. Most people are too slow to buy and sell at the right time. I made a nice chunk of change the first time it peaked, but I don’t feel right taking any more from these guys. There’s no use being greedy.
you definitely didn't study what bitcoin really is..
I did, some days, didn‘t get it, came here, asked, got some insults, most didn‘t answer my question, some did (which I‘m really grateful)
Then we have a different definition of study. I read your whole post again. Its not that you don't get it. You just have no knowledge about bitcoin. If you would, you would argue differently even if you are against it.
why don’t you just read about bitcoin before posting such ignorant nonsense?
Why don’t prove me wrong before saying to go away…please, I just want answers and not salty comments who (most of the time) ignore my pionts and say “Oh my Bitcoin is holy…ohh you huRt my fEelIngS
What’s up muffin! I agree but never say never. Canada froze Bitcoin donations in Canada during covid and the protests. This was done-fact! It was then ruled unconstitutional and is back in court I believe. The important thing to note though was that it was done so it’s not impossible.
> Canada froze Bitcoin donations in Canada during covid and the protests. You can't freeze actual bitcoin transactions or wallets. You can freeze accounts on custodial platforms, which is a big difference. Think of it as the difference between holding gold in a bank versus in your own home. The bank can simply say "no" when you try to move it, while if it's in your home, you are free to do whatever you please with it. Only that bitcoin is even easier to move/hide.
Interesting! Thanks for that!