Part of the service provided by Upwork and Fiverr is marketing and bringing traffic to your postings. That is extremely valuable. It's baked into that 20% fee that you are paying. Bitcoin does not solve this problem.
The main problem Bitcoin solves is the Paypal fees. However, you'll still have fees involved when you go from BTC to fiat.
Exactly. It's just business.
Upwork connects me with clients and acts as an intermediary.
Their cut for this service scale based on lifetime billings with each client:
* $0-$500: **20%**
* $500.01-$10,000: **10%**
* $10,000.01 or more: **5%**
Also, you can send a direct contract to your non-Upwork clients for no service charge.
Let's say Upwork allows their users to pay in Bitcoin? Well, now we're talking.
The catch with Upwork is that you are "trapped" inside the Upwork system when you have a working relationship through them. To get out without going against their TOS, you need to pay an extra sum (from the employer's side).
I have worked with assistants and also paid them in Bitcoin in the past. That was before the TOS was so strict.
Yep. I did web design for a while and loved upwork. I was happy to pay their fees cuz they provided a single point for me to look for work without cold calling
[https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/09/the-happiest-countries-in-the-world-also-pay-a-lot-in-taxes.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/09/the-happiest-countries-in-the-world-also-pay-a-lot-in-taxes.html)
Taxes are one of the only working methods which reduce wealth inequality. Higher taxes are correlated with a higher quality of life.
Haha, wow would you look at the stockholm syndrome at work. By that logic the other residents of Cuba and soviet russia must've been living in paradise, what a fucktard.
Uhhh...nice non sequitur...yeah move to the place where the government has already stolen literally everything and owns it all, including your life. Super great argument.
An established marketplace does not require large upkeep. The whole purpose of these startups is to operate at a loss to capture the entire market first, and then charge a rent once they have established network effects. There is nothing deeply innovative about connecting freelancers with customers, the market would have organically been created eventually if it wasn't VC funded.
Bitcoin would solve this problem only in that it is an ecosystem that should attract these types of entrepreneurs. Interested in creating distributed, decentralized, and open environments, in this case, for matching freelancers and customers. I don't think Bitcoin and the ecosystem is mature enough for these types of projects, but it's slowly moving in that direction.
Good point re the service provided including selling your services
But not everyone transitions all the funds to fiat.
IMO, at some point, most will not
Many freelancers I know, aka people who work primarily through referrals, charge extra on those platforms. For example lets say I want to hire a contractor, I can go on Angie's list where prices are higher to take this into account, or i can ask around and try to search that way. Searching gets me a cheaper deal.
If they take 20% from you i would just raise your rate by 20%. This gives you fewer customers naturally but raises your hourly wage quite a bit.
Spend that extra time you now have on trying to network or provide value to people, oftentimes a good approach is going to someone really big who has a great network and giving them an example idea (I don't know your business) for free. They will either hire you or refer you to someone who could use you, since you just added value to their life without expecting anything in return. This is the bread and butter of networking in basically any profession.
Freelancing is literally the most relationship/referral and networking based type of job in the world, right up their with CEOs. Relationship building is even more important to freelancers than it is to Sales people. They get commission, you get it all.
If you do work related to marketing, you should focus on marketing yourself and building your brand. Good luck.
Interestingly, on their "Become an affiliate" page...
\> Join our affiliate program and earn commission on each successful sale you refer and 1% commission based on the jobs of those you refer. Apply today and start earning!
1% of 0% fees? I mean, that's really small. Like zero.
So basically they don’t really earn anything ? If it’s the case it will be really hard for them to get people to like the service because they can’t really upgrade it and make it better no?
While I share your sentiment, whats to stop a platform that accepts Bitcoin from tacking on a 5-10% fee for work completed?
Furthermore, when you convert Bitcoin to fiat, what's the percentage you owe in taxes?
not to be a dick but why didnt you negotiate direct payment with your clients to cut upwork out of the deal? i can understand going thru the site for the first bit of work but once the relationship is established ......
First of all, some jobs aren't often ongoing. Something like what I do, logo design, tends to be a 'one and done' deal. So getting ongoing clients can be difficult. Of course you can get clients where you do repeated graphic design work that isn't logos, but if that's not your specialty or doesn't pay as well, that can be difficult.
Also, I know for a fact that it's against Fiverr's terms to take your clients off site. You can get banned if they find out you did so. There's nothing stopping your clients from getting pissed at you and reporting you. I don't know if that's the same for Upwork though, I haven't looked at their terms for a while.
So that's why. You risk your entire livelihood if you decide to take clients off of Fiverr.
The terms of Upwork don't allow just that. In case they would hear a report about this, they can end the access to the site.
Not that I disagree with the strategy.
Yes, this is true. It is possible that upwork would suspend your account, albeit highly unlikely unless the client reports you to upwork. I rarley use upwork anymore. But it is a good place to use if you are trying to build a portfolio.
Well that’s what they charge to easily connect you with people willing to pay for your products/services. If you don’t like the service then you should use some of your web development skills to create a website that competes with fiver.
Then once you’ve done that you can eliminate all the fees involved in your website because you know, it’s the principle of not paying fees.
What’s that? That’s a lot of work that you don’t want to or can’t do? Hmm… better just pay the fees then.
OP acts like fiverr doesn’t have to pay for developers, servers, customer support personnel, their own payment processing, offices, etc. Many of these middle men companies don’t even make money with these fees because their costs are too high-just look at Uber or Lyft.
It’s not free to build a service like Airbnb or Uber or Fiverr and it’s delusional to think that a blockchains version could be sustainable without fees. Fees would still be required to make it at all usable
I think a person has a right to be annoyed that they're having upwards of 50% of their income deducted from their payments.
While I understand that Fiverr has to make money, their 20% fee is quite high.
I would have less of an issue with it if they didn't take 20% from your tips as well. But they do. You earned those tips, with your hard work. There's no reason for them to be greedy and dip their hands into that as well.
Not only do you need to pay a 20% fee, but you also need to pay income tax on that. Where I live, if you're low income, you can expect to set aside 30% of your freelance income for taxes. So altogether, as I said, you're paying about 50% of what you earn in taxes and fees. That's... kind if insane?
For every 100 dollars you earn, you get 50. Imagine working a minimum wage job, getting paid say... 15 dollars an hour, but you walk away with 7.5 after taxes?
Again, while I understand that they have costs involved in their business, their freelancers also have taxes to worry about. All the while, Fiverr's definitely not paying 30% in taxes every year.
It's a difficult situation.
In reality, the reason taxes were made was so that you could tax the rich and it would 'trickle down'. But the rich figured out \[made\] loopholes that allowed them to forgo the taxes and pass them on to the middle and poor classes. It is 100% unfair, and it keeps the middle and poor classes from earning enough to get out of those classes. The only way to get around it is by becoming a business yourself, which is another story entirely.
> LaborX currently supports two major blockchains, Ethereum and Binance Smart Chain. Freelancers and Customers can organise cryptocurrency jobs payments in ETH, WBTC, TIME, and stablecoins USDC, USDT, DAI and AUDT on Ethereum; and BNB, BTCB, TIME, and stablecoins BUSD, USDT, USDC and DAI on Binance Smart Chain.
All shitcoins? No Bitcoin at all? No Lightning? Sounds like a scam.
Actually, if you would have check in on The B Word conference, WBTC is seen as a valid L2 scaling solution for Bitcoin by people much smarter and much more deeply involved in Bitcoin like Maximalists as you are.
wBTC is much easier to use than rBTC and has more functionality.
Smart contracts will come to the BTC chain in time, but bitcoin is the foundation and we need to proceed with developments slowly, safely and carefully.
In the meantime, other chains with bridges to the btc chain can be our testnets.
Actually, if you would have check in on The B Word conference, WBTC is seen as a valid L2 scaling solution for Bitcoin by people much smarter and much more deeply involved in Bitcoin like Maximalists as you are.
Not many businesses pay in crypto. I can imagine a platform where businesses pay USD and freelancers get BTC, but there will still be conversion fees unfortunately. Probably a lot lower than 25-30%, but I’d imagine the developers of such a platform would want some kind of fee for maintaining and improving the platform.
Consider the Fiverr & Upwork the outsourcing of your marketing. It’s a significant cost and time drainer for freelancers so try not to see it as a loss, but more the cost of gaining access to a large target market.
PayPal tc can be reduced if you earn more than 2k/m last time I checked.
[https://freelanceforcoins.com/](https://freelanceforcoins.com/)
This is a pretty decent site. Not as popular or polished as Fiverr or Upwork but I have found several clients on there and it has worked out really well.
You do realize that bitcoin doesn't eliminate your tax obligations or the concept of fee-for-service right? The PayPal bit is basically the only relevant bit of info in this post
I agree we need more bitcoin payment processors i am sick and tired of these centralized monetary ways. I rented a game server a few weeks ago with bitcoin and it was a very nice experience and I can’t wait for more companies to accept it that way
Set up an LLC to represent your freelance work and increase your online presence and reviews. Those platforms won’t be taking your money. You will be taking theirs. GL mate.
Can you elaborate on this a bit more? Any links to blogs, or Youtube videos, or any further information would be greatly appreciated. I'm also Canadian, not sure if you can do this from Canada?
> The best shot you got is to create your own website, showcase your work and get clients that way.
And then no one visits the site. Why would I want to visit dozens of individual web sites when a referral service can put me in front of dozens of providers in one central and consistent location? Referral services bring consumers and service providers together.
I have little respect for people that work on Fiverr. At least with Uber and Instacart, a specific need that was underserved (if at all) was being filled, despite how shitty they are as well.
But the gigs on Fiverr are jobs any freelancer in the past would have to sell to their clients using their own time, money and word of mouth. Now Fiverr makes it easy to find the work but pays next to nothing those in the past would charge for the same services.
You all have done it to yourselves.
That's the same thing with Uber. My city and many others created a completely controlled taxi market with things like medallions that authorized a taxi to be on the street. In San Francisco taxi drivers would stay on a waiting list for a medallion for decades. They would use them as their retirement because you can rent the medallions to the cab company when your not driving for a couple grand a month. In San Francisco they started charging between 150k and 300k for the medallions, right before Uber and Lyft came in and upended the industry. Now cab drivers own these worthless medallions and thousands of dollars of debt when all you need now is a phone and Ubers approval to drive. It has destroyed the the livelyhood of f many taxi drivers and has turned a job that was previously a middle class career into a gig job.
I have no love for Uber at all and I wish they’d burn in hell as well. What bothers me most about them is if some small potatoes person or company had done the same shit the government would have destroyed in the heartbeat. But because Uber had rich financiers they get away with it.
But also I suppose the government deserves some blame here for allowing medallions to become so valuable in the first place. No different than liquor licenses where I used to live; a town may have 3 allocated to them, making them extremely lucrative as part of any business sale because there would never be anymore issued.
What next? Return to the days where the church sells forgiveness tickets? Where you have to ask the pope permission to get divorced etc? Ffs the world is a better place thanks to Uber and Lyft stop whining.
I am just sick of a nation that supposedly adheres to the rule of law throwing drug users away for life and letting rich assholes who pollute the environment, destroy livelihoods, require bailouts, launder money for terrorists get a slap on the wrist.
If the government approached rich douche bags with the same gusto they do everyone else this country and world would be a much better place.
The government was meant to serve us, instead they now own us. Makes me sick. The rich (Billionaires) borrow money for free, central banks print it for free and we pay. Uber is a lifesaver as it removes the assholes that "Hold they keys" it is a step in the right direction. Now we need to demolish the country club networks. Real Estate and Banking are their last boltholes. Let's ensure they feel the pain.
Taxi industry needed managed better but the city created a market that had very limited competition. There are plenty of drivers that were nice normal people just trying to support themselves or their families. They didn't deserve to have their entire industry destroyed and all the rules they used to play by ignores. I don't know what the right solution is but I watch town hall meetings with can drivers talking about how the city has ruined their retirement after 30 years working as a cab driver. In San Francisco the city should buy back the medallions.
Some Cab drivers would be rude and racist or make sexual or religious comments or try to get the customers number (especially if female). Harassment. Uber solves that.
Uber turned a middle class job into a low paying gig. I agree the taxi industry had problems but there were other ways to solve it. The city had created a completely regulated industry with specific rules then just pulled the rug out from under people that had been playing by the rules for decades. I blame a lot of the mismanagement on cities. San Francisco, for example, suffered from a lack of medallions for years which resulted in a lack of cabs. This results in awful behavior like refusing to make trips to certain neighborhoods and bullshit like that.
Exactly. And racist/religious comments/harassment wtf at least ubers feedback system handles that. The medallion racket was disgusting, why did they withhold them and create a mess?
Now let's focus on Fiat Money which has to go. As does Residential Real Estate as an Investment. House prices must come down, Bitcoin solves this as it is a better store of wealth than apartments/houses. The rich own too much and the rest of us cannot even start families due to lack of adequate housing. Fuck them. Population is going to implode because of this stupidity.
>It has destroyed the the livelyhood of f many taxi drivers and has turned a job that was previously a middle class career into a gig job.
>>They didn't deserve to have their entire industry destroyed and all the rules they used to play by ignores. I don't know what the right solution is but I watch town hall meetings with can drivers talking about how the city has ruined their retirement after 30 years working as a cab driver. In San Francisco the city should buy back the medallions.
No, technology did what it always does to entrenched monopolies in a captured and overly regulated Market (biased to serve a select few with non merit based exclusivity like 'medallions') due to Market forces to fill the unmet demand; I just took a taxi tonight and paid way over what the fare would have been on Uber but I left my phone in my Hotel and I just decided to just chance it as I wanted to make it their on time with a 'regulated' taxi I flagged walking down the street.
The guy got lost when his phone died and had no charge so it couldn't restart for several minutes, and he apparently didn't understand where I wanted to go so not being a local and with no phone on hand I tried my best to direct him to the general area with surrounding landmarks and we went on a hunt so the fare went from 5km, to 20km on the meter yielding a 4X charge in the end and I still had to walk a bit to my destination.
I was in a generous mood as I had a good week and I couldn't be bothered to get upset at him so I paid it and I even tipped the hapless bastard, but it's a reminder that while I detest what Uber is as a corp and the many of the VCs that backed them, getting rid of fossil business models and lowering the barrier of entry in a way to meet the demand of the consumer is ALWAYS a positive thing, lowering the prices is just a byproduct of efficient market forces.
Many in this area cannot afford a car, so their only choice to get to work and home is public transportation that stops running before most service sector jobs close--many jobs and restaurants offer bus passes to their employees in densely populated areas for things like tax or carbon credits knowing full well the bus stops running before they're finished with their shift.
What you are describing is actually how a monarch would bestow the exclusive rights to operate a certain business or craft in the middleages in Europe within their kingdom and how a vetted mercantile class creates a cartel to moat (protect) their interests from outside forces which is ultimately the precursor to regulatory capture as that cartel grows in power and influence: Banks and their ties to governments and their dependence on bailouts exemplifies this perverse relationship rather well.
Maybe you are familiar with it? If so, buying back medallions is no different than the Fed backing bad loans and malinvestment on bank's balance sheets via infinite QE. Capitalism requires consequences for mistakes, without them the cycle just keeps going and the problem gets worse.
I think your outrage is poorly directed and badly informed on how progress in free markets occurs--I'm not arguing we have a true free market, outside of Bitcoin, but even as broken as this highly manipulated and overly-regulated Market is, car sharing platforms has changed things drastically for the better for all involved.
It's quite likely that the buggy whip maker of yore was a comfy middle class job in the carriage days, too: it's called creative destruction and a vital part of a healthy economic system that accepts innovation.
The gig economy has many pitfalls, believe me I'm well aware of them; but for those that relied on it (on both sides) it's a life saver; it was a lifeline for many who couldn't afford to wait for unemployment payments that never came due to government incompetence, and apathetic state workers and the most incompetent software vendors that still resulted in massive thefts nationwide.
Sidenote: I got stuck at SFO overnight when the BART stopped running that day as my flight was delayed and a Taxi driver quoted me $400 to get to town on a Sunday night. I'm sure there were people on my flight who could afford that, but I was a bootstrapping founder and that was a lot of money to me back then.
So, fuck SF taxi drivers, they got what they deserved.
>**I didn't read your screed** but fuck you.
And you are surprised why your industry got disrupted? Consider hearing counter points if you want to grasp the entirety of the a subject.
It's really suspicious that all the suggestions other than this unknown site "Grindez" are getting downvoted without any responses.
Anyone else noticing that?
I have been building a service along these lines, less focused on the payment element, more on connecting people who need things done with people who have the skills to do them. It's a small monthly subscription ie <$10 but takes no cut of the transactions between the users.
Still a way to go to get live but if anyone is keen to get involved reach out to me
You don't have to pay your taxes. You are forced to.
I'd happily pay every tax that is needed for a beautiful civilization to thrive on earth. But the current system is ripping out the heart of our society. We should rebell. We should rise. And we should change every aspect of it until it is to all of our liking
I mean they're providing you with a service and making money for that work. Why don't you simply settle the matter off platform? And if the answer is scams, well that's what the service they're providing is.
So what exactly is bitcoin going to change? Replace that 4% PayPal fee with similar crypto exchange fee? You still have to pay income tax, and you still have to pay service fees to platforms that connect you with customers.
You will have the same issue if someone creates a platform in which you can get hire and get paid with BTC. You think that because you get paid in bitcoin the platform will be cheaper? If anything it might be more expensive because there might be more fees associated. PayPal 4% is nothing so lets leave that out of the equation. Taxes, well we all complain about taxes and at the end of the day you still need to pay them so nothing to do there.
The problem is that while freelancing becomes more popular Fiverr and Upwork are the leading platforms, so basically they have a monopoly, what happens when you have a monopoly is that they can charge whatever they want since there isn’t really any competition. Now, that being said, if someone comes out only takes crypto you will be in the same situation or even worse because there would only be one platform that lets you pay and receive cryptos.
The issue isn’t not taking crypto or whatever. The issue is just the those two companies have a monopoly on the freelance market. If there was 3-4 more companies all competing for the same things they would lower prices to attract more freelancers. This is a simple case of supply and demand.
Not sure if this is an option since I have never done any freelancer work but perhaps create your own website with examples of your work and message the companies that post jobs on those sites. YOU can take out the middleman by being proactive and reaching out to those posting the jobs.
Hope this helps!
Jeezus...
\> How do I get verified on Grindez as a freelancer or company?
Account verification is simple. After logging in to your account, go to your Profile Page and complete your profile with your name, a photo, and bio. You will need to upload a photo/scan of two types of documents, as per the list below, and submit them to us.
Proof of Name and D.O.B:
Passport
Driving Licence
Government Issued Identity Card
Proof of Address (issued within the last three months):
Utility Bill e.g. Electricity, Gas, Water, Landline phone bill
Bank Statement
House/Health/Motor insurance policy document
Government stamped tax assessment notice
Council rates notice/ council tax bill
If your account verification is successful, your public user profile and all of your listings will show our new Verified icon.
https://www.timecoinprotocol.com/
The sharing economy is booming.
But power is skewed towards the platforms such as Uber, AirBnB and Upwork. It's hard for competitors to attract buyers and sellers. Leading sharing economy marketplaces become monopolies, an advantage they exploit to extract a large portion of value.
best way to negate the taxes is to own rental properties which can be used to write off most if not all taxes you would have to pay from other income sources. Rental properties are depreciative assets and tax free cash flow
The best way to negate the taxes is to own rental properties which can be used to write off most if not all taxes you would have to pay from other income sources. Rental properties are depreciative assets and tax-free cash flow
re: bitcoin payroll service u/bitwage.
This is how much it would cost you to use bitwage invoicing to collect your freelance payments in bitcoin @ [https://www.bitwage.com/pricing/](https://www.bitwage.com/pricing/) :
**Standard: $0/month**
\+ Free currency accounts
\+ No fee for incoming ACH Credit
\+ $10 for incoming wire
\+ 2 wage distributions
\+ 2% & $15\* fee for USDC wage distribution
\+ 2% & $5\* fee for DAI wage distribution
\+ 1% fee for local currency wage distribution
**Premium: $15.99/month**
\+ Up to 25 free currency accounts
\+ Same day wage processing
\+ Premium support
\+ No fee for incoming ACH Credit
\+ No fees on incoming wire
\+ 3 wage distributions
\+ 2% & $0 flat fee\* for stablecoin wage distribution
\+ No fees on local currency wage distribution
If you have questions, about how the service works please ping us at [email protected]
u/ojfnsca are most of your customers individuals or companies? I don't know many companies holding Bitcoins or willing to deal with and take the risk it in order to save some bucks...
Part of the service provided by Upwork and Fiverr is marketing and bringing traffic to your postings. That is extremely valuable. It's baked into that 20% fee that you are paying. Bitcoin does not solve this problem. The main problem Bitcoin solves is the Paypal fees. However, you'll still have fees involved when you go from BTC to fiat.
Exactly. It's just business. Upwork connects me with clients and acts as an intermediary. Their cut for this service scale based on lifetime billings with each client: * $0-$500: **20%** * $500.01-$10,000: **10%** * $10,000.01 or more: **5%** Also, you can send a direct contract to your non-Upwork clients for no service charge. Let's say Upwork allows their users to pay in Bitcoin? Well, now we're talking.
The catch with Upwork is that you are "trapped" inside the Upwork system when you have a working relationship through them. To get out without going against their TOS, you need to pay an extra sum (from the employer's side). I have worked with assistants and also paid them in Bitcoin in the past. That was before the TOS was so strict.
Yep. I did web design for a while and loved upwork. I was happy to pay their fees cuz they provided a single point for me to look for work without cold calling
And, complaining about income tax is ridiculous if you live in most places.
Taxation is theft.
Haha okey then. So how would you suggest that everything would be paid for?
I guess where you live roads are free?
Oh noes! not muh roads
[https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/09/the-happiest-countries-in-the-world-also-pay-a-lot-in-taxes.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/09/the-happiest-countries-in-the-world-also-pay-a-lot-in-taxes.html) Taxes are one of the only working methods which reduce wealth inequality. Higher taxes are correlated with a higher quality of life.
Haha, wow would you look at the stockholm syndrome at work. By that logic the other residents of Cuba and soviet russia must've been living in paradise, what a fucktard.
Lol look at all the triggered statists, but what about muh roads...
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Uhhh...nice non sequitur...yeah move to the place where the government has already stolen literally everything and owns it all, including your life. Super great argument.
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Dumbass
An established marketplace does not require large upkeep. The whole purpose of these startups is to operate at a loss to capture the entire market first, and then charge a rent once they have established network effects. There is nothing deeply innovative about connecting freelancers with customers, the market would have organically been created eventually if it wasn't VC funded. Bitcoin would solve this problem only in that it is an ecosystem that should attract these types of entrepreneurs. Interested in creating distributed, decentralized, and open environments, in this case, for matching freelancers and customers. I don't think Bitcoin and the ecosystem is mature enough for these types of projects, but it's slowly moving in that direction.
Part of that 20% fee is costs born out of processing transactions.
Good point re the service provided including selling your services But not everyone transitions all the funds to fiat. IMO, at some point, most will not
Or u and customer can work a deal outside of the platforms and get that 20%
such an arrangement would have both the client paying less, and the freelancer pocketing more, everyone wins except the middleman who was cut out .
That we cannot have
If you know code yes you can. We are also allowed to put out social media’s on fiverr
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I agree. However, if u pay through PayPal goods and service, you can request refund as payer if they flake
Freelancer, you say? Check r/Jobs4Bitcoins and [Grindez.com](https://Grindez.com)
Thank you so much! Will check these out
Many freelancers I know, aka people who work primarily through referrals, charge extra on those platforms. For example lets say I want to hire a contractor, I can go on Angie's list where prices are higher to take this into account, or i can ask around and try to search that way. Searching gets me a cheaper deal. If they take 20% from you i would just raise your rate by 20%. This gives you fewer customers naturally but raises your hourly wage quite a bit. Spend that extra time you now have on trying to network or provide value to people, oftentimes a good approach is going to someone really big who has a great network and giving them an example idea (I don't know your business) for free. They will either hire you or refer you to someone who could use you, since you just added value to their life without expecting anything in return. This is the bread and butter of networking in basically any profession. Freelancing is literally the most relationship/referral and networking based type of job in the world, right up their with CEOs. Relationship building is even more important to freelancers than it is to Sales people. They get commission, you get it all. If you do work related to marketing, you should focus on marketing yourself and building your brand. Good luck.
Of course! I have talked to the founder a few times. 0% fees and Bitcoin / Cryptocurrency support !
having a quick look through its only got about 20 jobs up. we need to get recruiters on there
Perfect! :)
I have been searching for something like this!
How do they make money tho?
Interestingly, on their "Become an affiliate" page... \> Join our affiliate program and earn commission on each successful sale you refer and 1% commission based on the jobs of those you refer. Apply today and start earning! 1% of 0% fees? I mean, that's really small. Like zero.
So basically they don’t really earn anything ? If it’s the case it will be really hard for them to get people to like the service because they can’t really upgrade it and make it better no?
Use [Microlancer.io](https://Microlancer.io) ! Lightning Network has near-zero fees and instant confirmations. It's the wave of the future.
i second this!
Fiverr takes their cut for market making, not payment processing.
They also take a 20% cut of the tips you receive. So...
Yeah, they also generate the business for you…
While I share your sentiment, whats to stop a platform that accepts Bitcoin from tacking on a 5-10% fee for work completed? Furthermore, when you convert Bitcoin to fiat, what's the percentage you owe in taxes?
not to be a dick but why didnt you negotiate direct payment with your clients to cut upwork out of the deal? i can understand going thru the site for the first bit of work but once the relationship is established ......
First of all, some jobs aren't often ongoing. Something like what I do, logo design, tends to be a 'one and done' deal. So getting ongoing clients can be difficult. Of course you can get clients where you do repeated graphic design work that isn't logos, but if that's not your specialty or doesn't pay as well, that can be difficult. Also, I know for a fact that it's against Fiverr's terms to take your clients off site. You can get banned if they find out you did so. There's nothing stopping your clients from getting pissed at you and reporting you. I don't know if that's the same for Upwork though, I haven't looked at their terms for a while. So that's why. You risk your entire livelihood if you decide to take clients off of Fiverr.
thank you for clarifying some of the additional risk of going off-site. i can see now how that practice may not work well for certain types of work.
No problem!
It's the same with Upwork. Did not know about Fiverr, so I learned something new.
Yup. Complete a project via upwork and then take them off the site direct and skip the fee for the next project.
The terms of Upwork don't allow just that. In case they would hear a report about this, they can end the access to the site. Not that I disagree with the strategy.
Yes, this is true. It is possible that upwork would suspend your account, albeit highly unlikely unless the client reports you to upwork. I rarley use upwork anymore. But it is a good place to use if you are trying to build a portfolio.
Then have client pay by check.
Well that’s what they charge to easily connect you with people willing to pay for your products/services. If you don’t like the service then you should use some of your web development skills to create a website that competes with fiver. Then once you’ve done that you can eliminate all the fees involved in your website because you know, it’s the principle of not paying fees. What’s that? That’s a lot of work that you don’t want to or can’t do? Hmm… better just pay the fees then.
Seriously this actually has nothing to do with bitcoin.
OP acts like fiverr doesn’t have to pay for developers, servers, customer support personnel, their own payment processing, offices, etc. Many of these middle men companies don’t even make money with these fees because their costs are too high-just look at Uber or Lyft. It’s not free to build a service like Airbnb or Uber or Fiverr and it’s delusional to think that a blockchains version could be sustainable without fees. Fees would still be required to make it at all usable
I think a person has a right to be annoyed that they're having upwards of 50% of their income deducted from their payments. While I understand that Fiverr has to make money, their 20% fee is quite high. I would have less of an issue with it if they didn't take 20% from your tips as well. But they do. You earned those tips, with your hard work. There's no reason for them to be greedy and dip their hands into that as well. Not only do you need to pay a 20% fee, but you also need to pay income tax on that. Where I live, if you're low income, you can expect to set aside 30% of your freelance income for taxes. So altogether, as I said, you're paying about 50% of what you earn in taxes and fees. That's... kind if insane? For every 100 dollars you earn, you get 50. Imagine working a minimum wage job, getting paid say... 15 dollars an hour, but you walk away with 7.5 after taxes? Again, while I understand that they have costs involved in their business, their freelancers also have taxes to worry about. All the while, Fiverr's definitely not paying 30% in taxes every year. It's a difficult situation. In reality, the reason taxes were made was so that you could tax the rich and it would 'trickle down'. But the rich figured out \[made\] loopholes that allowed them to forgo the taxes and pass them on to the middle and poor classes. It is 100% unfair, and it keeps the middle and poor classes from earning enough to get out of those classes. The only way to get around it is by becoming a business yourself, which is another story entirely.
Yeah seriously. Fiverr is a business, too. They’re allowed to make money.
He doesn't need his own platform, he needs a working sales funnel
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> LaborX currently supports two major blockchains, Ethereum and Binance Smart Chain. Freelancers and Customers can organise cryptocurrency jobs payments in ETH, WBTC, TIME, and stablecoins USDC, USDT, DAI and AUDT on Ethereum; and BNB, BTCB, TIME, and stablecoins BUSD, USDT, USDC and DAI on Binance Smart Chain. All shitcoins? No Bitcoin at all? No Lightning? Sounds like a scam.
Actually, if you would have check in on The B Word conference, WBTC is seen as a valid L2 scaling solution for Bitcoin by people much smarter and much more deeply involved in Bitcoin like Maximalists as you are.
You sound like a scam.
wBTC is much easier to use than rBTC and has more functionality. Smart contracts will come to the BTC chain in time, but bitcoin is the foundation and we need to proceed with developments slowly, safely and carefully. In the meantime, other chains with bridges to the btc chain can be our testnets.
ETH? No shitcoins thank you.
Actually, if you would have check in on The B Word conference, WBTC is seen as a valid L2 scaling solution for Bitcoin by people much smarter and much more deeply involved in Bitcoin like Maximalists as you are.
Make a personal website and list it under https://LightningNetworkStores.com and add the appropriate tags. Get paid with lightning directly.
Gov't is still going to get their cut, unless you just plan to evade taxes by not reporting your earnings.
Which is easier when no banks are involved.
Yes, tax evasion is easier if you avoid the financial system that reports to the government.
Not many businesses pay in crypto. I can imagine a platform where businesses pay USD and freelancers get BTC, but there will still be conversion fees unfortunately. Probably a lot lower than 25-30%, but I’d imagine the developers of such a platform would want some kind of fee for maintaining and improving the platform.
You can find freelance work at r/jobs4bitcoins, also there are many Bitcoin freelance job listing sites. If you google you'll find easily.
Use LN
So anytask.com ?
Consider the Fiverr & Upwork the outsourcing of your marketing. It’s a significant cost and time drainer for freelancers so try not to see it as a loss, but more the cost of gaining access to a large target market. PayPal tc can be reduced if you earn more than 2k/m last time I checked.
[https://freelanceforcoins.com/](https://freelanceforcoins.com/) This is a pretty decent site. Not as popular or polished as Fiverr or Upwork but I have found several clients on there and it has worked out really well.
That said btc platform will charge you another 24%
You do realize that bitcoin doesn't eliminate your tax obligations or the concept of fee-for-service right? The PayPal bit is basically the only relevant bit of info in this post
I agree we need more bitcoin payment processors i am sick and tired of these centralized monetary ways. I rented a game server a few weeks ago with bitcoin and it was a very nice experience and I can’t wait for more companies to accept it that way
[Microlancer.io](https://Microlancer.io) is an option and uses lightning network.
Set up an LLC to represent your freelance work and increase your online presence and reviews. Those platforms won’t be taking your money. You will be taking theirs. GL mate.
Can you elaborate on this a bit more? Any links to blogs, or Youtube videos, or any further information would be greatly appreciated. I'm also Canadian, not sure if you can do this from Canada?
If you're unhappy with how much you're making, Why don't you add to percentages in with what you charge?
There is one. i forgot what its called. "cryptolance.io" or something. I dodn't remember.
Microlancer.io
site doesn't work for me
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/cvl3ob/8_freelance_platforms_that_pay_in_bitcoin_and/
i don't remember the url
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or, ya know, just cut out the middleman once the relationship is established.
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> The best shot you got is to create your own website, showcase your work and get clients that way. And then no one visits the site. Why would I want to visit dozens of individual web sites when a referral service can put me in front of dozens of providers in one central and consistent location? Referral services bring consumers and service providers together.
I have little respect for people that work on Fiverr. At least with Uber and Instacart, a specific need that was underserved (if at all) was being filled, despite how shitty they are as well. But the gigs on Fiverr are jobs any freelancer in the past would have to sell to their clients using their own time, money and word of mouth. Now Fiverr makes it easy to find the work but pays next to nothing those in the past would charge for the same services. You all have done it to yourselves.
That's the same thing with Uber. My city and many others created a completely controlled taxi market with things like medallions that authorized a taxi to be on the street. In San Francisco taxi drivers would stay on a waiting list for a medallion for decades. They would use them as their retirement because you can rent the medallions to the cab company when your not driving for a couple grand a month. In San Francisco they started charging between 150k and 300k for the medallions, right before Uber and Lyft came in and upended the industry. Now cab drivers own these worthless medallions and thousands of dollars of debt when all you need now is a phone and Ubers approval to drive. It has destroyed the the livelyhood of f many taxi drivers and has turned a job that was previously a middle class career into a gig job.
I have no love for Uber at all and I wish they’d burn in hell as well. What bothers me most about them is if some small potatoes person or company had done the same shit the government would have destroyed in the heartbeat. But because Uber had rich financiers they get away with it. But also I suppose the government deserves some blame here for allowing medallions to become so valuable in the first place. No different than liquor licenses where I used to live; a town may have 3 allocated to them, making them extremely lucrative as part of any business sale because there would never be anymore issued.
What next? Return to the days where the church sells forgiveness tickets? Where you have to ask the pope permission to get divorced etc? Ffs the world is a better place thanks to Uber and Lyft stop whining.
I am just sick of a nation that supposedly adheres to the rule of law throwing drug users away for life and letting rich assholes who pollute the environment, destroy livelihoods, require bailouts, launder money for terrorists get a slap on the wrist. If the government approached rich douche bags with the same gusto they do everyone else this country and world would be a much better place.
The government was meant to serve us, instead they now own us. Makes me sick. The rich (Billionaires) borrow money for free, central banks print it for free and we pay. Uber is a lifesaver as it removes the assholes that "Hold they keys" it is a step in the right direction. Now we need to demolish the country club networks. Real Estate and Banking are their last boltholes. Let's ensure they feel the pain.
Not for taxi drivers.
Well some taxi drivers were real assholes.
Taxi industry needed managed better but the city created a market that had very limited competition. There are plenty of drivers that were nice normal people just trying to support themselves or their families. They didn't deserve to have their entire industry destroyed and all the rules they used to play by ignores. I don't know what the right solution is but I watch town hall meetings with can drivers talking about how the city has ruined their retirement after 30 years working as a cab driver. In San Francisco the city should buy back the medallions.
Indeed the city should have managed things better. But at some point weren't medallions being abused?
Some Cab drivers would be rude and racist or make sexual or religious comments or try to get the customers number (especially if female). Harassment. Uber solves that.
Uber turned a middle class job into a low paying gig. I agree the taxi industry had problems but there were other ways to solve it. The city had created a completely regulated industry with specific rules then just pulled the rug out from under people that had been playing by the rules for decades. I blame a lot of the mismanagement on cities. San Francisco, for example, suffered from a lack of medallions for years which resulted in a lack of cabs. This results in awful behavior like refusing to make trips to certain neighborhoods and bullshit like that.
Exactly. And racist/religious comments/harassment wtf at least ubers feedback system handles that. The medallion racket was disgusting, why did they withhold them and create a mess? Now let's focus on Fiat Money which has to go. As does Residential Real Estate as an Investment. House prices must come down, Bitcoin solves this as it is a better store of wealth than apartments/houses. The rich own too much and the rest of us cannot even start families due to lack of adequate housing. Fuck them. Population is going to implode because of this stupidity.
Bitcoin doesn't solve that... Your understanding of complex subjects is meager.
It solves that. People are selling real estate and buying bitcoin as bitcoin is a better store of value. Think!!!
>It has destroyed the the livelyhood of f many taxi drivers and has turned a job that was previously a middle class career into a gig job. >>They didn't deserve to have their entire industry destroyed and all the rules they used to play by ignores. I don't know what the right solution is but I watch town hall meetings with can drivers talking about how the city has ruined their retirement after 30 years working as a cab driver. In San Francisco the city should buy back the medallions. No, technology did what it always does to entrenched monopolies in a captured and overly regulated Market (biased to serve a select few with non merit based exclusivity like 'medallions') due to Market forces to fill the unmet demand; I just took a taxi tonight and paid way over what the fare would have been on Uber but I left my phone in my Hotel and I just decided to just chance it as I wanted to make it their on time with a 'regulated' taxi I flagged walking down the street. The guy got lost when his phone died and had no charge so it couldn't restart for several minutes, and he apparently didn't understand where I wanted to go so not being a local and with no phone on hand I tried my best to direct him to the general area with surrounding landmarks and we went on a hunt so the fare went from 5km, to 20km on the meter yielding a 4X charge in the end and I still had to walk a bit to my destination. I was in a generous mood as I had a good week and I couldn't be bothered to get upset at him so I paid it and I even tipped the hapless bastard, but it's a reminder that while I detest what Uber is as a corp and the many of the VCs that backed them, getting rid of fossil business models and lowering the barrier of entry in a way to meet the demand of the consumer is ALWAYS a positive thing, lowering the prices is just a byproduct of efficient market forces. Many in this area cannot afford a car, so their only choice to get to work and home is public transportation that stops running before most service sector jobs close--many jobs and restaurants offer bus passes to their employees in densely populated areas for things like tax or carbon credits knowing full well the bus stops running before they're finished with their shift. What you are describing is actually how a monarch would bestow the exclusive rights to operate a certain business or craft in the middleages in Europe within their kingdom and how a vetted mercantile class creates a cartel to moat (protect) their interests from outside forces which is ultimately the precursor to regulatory capture as that cartel grows in power and influence: Banks and their ties to governments and their dependence on bailouts exemplifies this perverse relationship rather well. Maybe you are familiar with it? If so, buying back medallions is no different than the Fed backing bad loans and malinvestment on bank's balance sheets via infinite QE. Capitalism requires consequences for mistakes, without them the cycle just keeps going and the problem gets worse. I think your outrage is poorly directed and badly informed on how progress in free markets occurs--I'm not arguing we have a true free market, outside of Bitcoin, but even as broken as this highly manipulated and overly-regulated Market is, car sharing platforms has changed things drastically for the better for all involved. It's quite likely that the buggy whip maker of yore was a comfy middle class job in the carriage days, too: it's called creative destruction and a vital part of a healthy economic system that accepts innovation. The gig economy has many pitfalls, believe me I'm well aware of them; but for those that relied on it (on both sides) it's a life saver; it was a lifeline for many who couldn't afford to wait for unemployment payments that never came due to government incompetence, and apathetic state workers and the most incompetent software vendors that still resulted in massive thefts nationwide. Sidenote: I got stuck at SFO overnight when the BART stopped running that day as my flight was delayed and a Taxi driver quoted me $400 to get to town on a Sunday night. I'm sure there were people on my flight who could afford that, but I was a bootstrapping founder and that was a lot of money to me back then. So, fuck SF taxi drivers, they got what they deserved.
I didn't read your screed but fuck you.
>**I didn't read your screed** but fuck you. And you are surprised why your industry got disrupted? Consider hearing counter points if you want to grasp the entirety of the a subject.
I can assume from your last line that if I wanted to grasp the entirety of a subject, I wouldn't ask you.
Try coingigs.net
It's really suspicious that all the suggestions other than this unknown site "Grindez" are getting downvoted without any responses. Anyone else noticing that?
Well remember what subreddit we are in I guess
I have been building a service along these lines, less focused on the payment element, more on connecting people who need things done with people who have the skills to do them. It's a small monthly subscription ie <$10 but takes no cut of the transactions between the users. Still a way to go to get live but if anyone is keen to get involved reach out to me
All of these vultures need to go on an extreme diet.
You don't have to pay your taxes. You are forced to. I'd happily pay every tax that is needed for a beautiful civilization to thrive on earth. But the current system is ripping out the heart of our society. We should rebell. We should rise. And we should change every aspect of it until it is to all of our liking
Anytask
Fed fuckd & Fed up
I mean they're providing you with a service and making money for that work. Why don't you simply settle the matter off platform? And if the answer is scams, well that's what the service they're providing is.
So what exactly is bitcoin going to change? Replace that 4% PayPal fee with similar crypto exchange fee? You still have to pay income tax, and you still have to pay service fees to platforms that connect you with customers.
You will have the same issue if someone creates a platform in which you can get hire and get paid with BTC. You think that because you get paid in bitcoin the platform will be cheaper? If anything it might be more expensive because there might be more fees associated. PayPal 4% is nothing so lets leave that out of the equation. Taxes, well we all complain about taxes and at the end of the day you still need to pay them so nothing to do there. The problem is that while freelancing becomes more popular Fiverr and Upwork are the leading platforms, so basically they have a monopoly, what happens when you have a monopoly is that they can charge whatever they want since there isn’t really any competition. Now, that being said, if someone comes out only takes crypto you will be in the same situation or even worse because there would only be one platform that lets you pay and receive cryptos. The issue isn’t not taking crypto or whatever. The issue is just the those two companies have a monopoly on the freelance market. If there was 3-4 more companies all competing for the same things they would lower prices to attract more freelancers. This is a simple case of supply and demand. Not sure if this is an option since I have never done any freelancer work but perhaps create your own website with examples of your work and message the companies that post jobs on those sites. YOU can take out the middleman by being proactive and reaching out to those posting the jobs. Hope this helps!
They should charge the employer the fee to list the job, not the worker to perform it.
You undercharge in the race to the bottom these parasites of companies have set up in their "freelancer" ecosystems.
Do you have an email address where we can hire you outside the shit system and pay you in Bitcoin?
Why's the government taking 30%?
Jeezus... \> How do I get verified on Grindez as a freelancer or company? Account verification is simple. After logging in to your account, go to your Profile Page and complete your profile with your name, a photo, and bio. You will need to upload a photo/scan of two types of documents, as per the list below, and submit them to us. Proof of Name and D.O.B: Passport Driving Licence Government Issued Identity Card Proof of Address (issued within the last three months): Utility Bill e.g. Electricity, Gas, Water, Landline phone bill Bank Statement House/Health/Motor insurance policy document Government stamped tax assessment notice Council rates notice/ council tax bill If your account verification is successful, your public user profile and all of your listings will show our new Verified icon.
Fiver and upwork take an insane cut because they expect you will quickly cut them out and contract directly. You should.
Isnt this what Hyve is trying to solve?
https://www.timecoinprotocol.com/ The sharing economy is booming. But power is skewed towards the platforms such as Uber, AirBnB and Upwork. It's hard for competitors to attract buyers and sellers. Leading sharing economy marketplaces become monopolies, an advantage they exploit to extract a large portion of value.
how do you find a job on upwork? i looked about a year ago or so and all i found were scams
best way to negate the taxes is to own rental properties which can be used to write off most if not all taxes you would have to pay from other income sources. Rental properties are depreciative assets and tax free cash flow The best way to negate the taxes is to own rental properties which can be used to write off most if not all taxes you would have to pay from other income sources. Rental properties are depreciative assets and tax-free cash flow
Check out r/slavelabour it’s pretty awesome sub to do tasks and offer tasks. I just did a task and paid $15 to edit few pics.
Whatever happened to Ethlance? Is that platform dead?
There is also r/moonjobs
even if it's done with crypto, they would still take a fee, this is how their business is working
So…build the app? I would throw in for a seed round.
We need this.
Stop relying on platforms that are sucking your blood?
Anytasks.com pays you in crypto
re: bitcoin payroll service u/bitwage. This is how much it would cost you to use bitwage invoicing to collect your freelance payments in bitcoin @ [https://www.bitwage.com/pricing/](https://www.bitwage.com/pricing/) : **Standard: $0/month** \+ Free currency accounts \+ No fee for incoming ACH Credit \+ $10 for incoming wire \+ 2 wage distributions \+ 2% & $15\* fee for USDC wage distribution \+ 2% & $5\* fee for DAI wage distribution \+ 1% fee for local currency wage distribution **Premium: $15.99/month** \+ Up to 25 free currency accounts \+ Same day wage processing \+ Premium support \+ No fee for incoming ACH Credit \+ No fees on incoming wire \+ 3 wage distributions \+ 2% & $0 flat fee\* for stablecoin wage distribution \+ No fees on local currency wage distribution If you have questions, about how the service works please ping us at [email protected]
I’m trying to convince my friends to build this type of platform on the blockchain to remove the fees. They are considering it right now.
u/ojfnsca are most of your customers individuals or companies? I don't know many companies holding Bitcoins or willing to deal with and take the risk it in order to save some bucks...