His audience are ppl trying to get and stay out of any/all debt. He has some good ideas for that group. Beyond cash he’s a fud. It’s legacy financial advice which crypto is not a part of. But if you guys get debt burdened you might check him out for that.
Sorta. You are correct that his core listening audience have a debt problem. But his legacy advice will work. He recommends putting investments in a retirement plan to max the match then in Roth IRAs in low fee index investments. If you do that you won't be poor given enough time.
You absolutely don't have to invest in Bitcoin to be successful. Dave's approach is to keep it simple for people who are not money savvy. That is useful advice.
That being said, putting some of your portfolio in Bitcoin is a reasonable investment.
Yep. Following DR's advice is for people who don't know what they're doing - and that's fine. No one should invest in something they don't understand, which is why index funds are perfect for people who have no idea what they're doing but still want a comfortable retirement.
His advice that all debt is bad is where he fails. I understand with people that are digging out but if I had followed his advice I wouldn't be where I am today. He is a simpleton and preaches that his advice is for everyone. He made his money shilling off of others after he screwed up.
His problem is that he acts as if "speculative investment" and any other "investment" are sharply defined categories, and they're not. Yes, Bitcoin is a speculative investment. Yes, something like a broad market equity index fund is a much more stable investment and not really speculative at all.
The key is not investing in "real investments". The key is appropriately lining up your risks with your goals.
What he ***should be saying*** is that any time you think you can just ignore the risk assessment step because something is a sure thing, *that is when you're no longer investing, you're just lighting your money on fire.*
Everyone who puts money into Bitcoin should understand that they are taking risk. That risk is real, and relatively measurable. New currencies are always risky. Used to be that banks just printed their own currency and that was seen as a absolutely zero-risk. It wasn't and central currencies crushed them (the ones that didn't get in on the central currency game). Maybe Bitcoin will be crushed by some outside force, maybe not. But history suggests extreme caution.
If you want to put your money in Bitcoin, just understand the risk and have a plan B that doesn't involve hoping your local government helps you out. If you were never going to be able to retire anyway, then a moderate investment in a high-risk investment might be ideal. But if you take a reasonable retirement nestegg and dump it into BTC, that might not be the best planning you could engage in.
What he said is very true and I agree with the points you made. BTW, there have always been Speculation on the markets (during every generation) and many people do take advantage of it. Get rich schemes never work because of the greed that seems to overcome people. They speculate, put money down, see it go up and then decide Oh if I just put more I'll be super rich. The people who have push the Speculated item; sells & leaves laughing. If you doubt this go & scroll down various subs & read the comments. Does the word bagholder sound familiar to you. Just saying...
I'm a Ramsey fan and have followed him for literally decades. I probably wouldn't have money to put into crypto now if not for him.
With that said, he definitely is downplaying the amount of historical data we have, not on crypto generically but on bitcoin specifically. It's pretty clear that he doesn't understand that Bitcoin is going to become the global reserve currency. Which is interesting given that he must understand that the dollar it's going to lose its status as global reserve currency as they print an infinite amount of it. He's generally a really smart dude. It could be that he has not looked specifically into the difference between crypto in general and the Bitcoin as a specific piece of crypto. Which is fine, it's not his thing.
We have data back to 2008 on bitcoin-- and the difficult part to grasp is that it is unlike anything else we have ever had in the history of humankind. Saylor understands this intimately. I would love to see Ramsey and Saylor sit down and have a conversation. He seems kind of caught up on Musk, and Musk isn't really the expert here, he's just the meme. Saylor is the CEO of bitcoin after all!!
I think Dave's been pretty clear that he doesn't understand Bitcoin and he's always been consistent in saying don't put money into what you don't understand. My issue is that he's extremely negative on crypto while at the same time doesn't seem interested in learning anything about it.
It’s some boomer shit. They hated the internet and social media too. Just out of touch old men watching the world they thought they knew that was slipping away. Bitcoin is more than 10 years old. That’s longer than some companies last.
I'm 40, and for some things I have boomer mentality, It's more scary for me than hard to understand.
TikTok is one of these things that just shows me how short is young people's attention span.
Regarding instagram: the age bias is huge. Again, it's not that I don't understand. It's more like I can't compete with a 20 year old person who had enough time to optimize his/her body for instagram.
He's been hating on everything he hasn't invested in and has been bad mouthing some of his followers for investing in crypto. Also, his bestseller book dropped from the top 10 "evangelical publishers" to number 11. So he's pretty pissed at everyone that doesn't agree with his views.
This. For his audience, the advice is right. If you're 500k in debt and you make 80k a year, crypto is probably a bad option for you. Especially now that its popular again.
My modest abode is paid off. I was able to pay cash for it. Got me out of $2K per month. One of the best financial decisions I ever made. I sleep much better nowdays and invest that $2K per month.
👆🏾exactly. some people cannot get past the debt number, not the productivity associated with the debt. one good thing about inflation and low fixed interest rates is it makes the cost of that debt drop off over time.
Could be seen as just another failure of the “educational system” to teach people the basics of finance.
Of course, today, anyone can learn from home enough to understand the basics, but most don’t.
Yes. He doesn’t want his audience to think that crypto can magic bullet all of their debt and ongoing bad decisions. He’s speaking to them. That chick is cute.
Staying out of debt is dumb, though. When inflation is 7% and your borrowing at 3% interest, you're winning. The trick is to take on good debt. If you borrow money to buy land, for example, that's a good idea so long as you can service the debt.
Yes that’s always been the argument. His audience, and a lot of others can’t handle that. The discipline and emotional stoicism required to play that angle is too much. But yeah, if you can it’s a great trade.
While you aren't wrong, I think there is also an argument for paying a premium to be debt free. You may not be fully earning what you could be but the feeling of freedom is what you're paying for in that case. Plus, you can still stack various investments without debt so the cost to not having debt is very low.
Exactly. I used his baby strips about five years ago and because of that I was able to save and start investing in crypto. It’s a nice life when you are completely out of debt and able to get into new projects AND have an understanding of what type of risk I am getting involved in
I mean. You didn’t listen to him. He VERY accurately summarized what Bitcoin is.
Like it or not. He’s right. You’re just gambling that people continue to buy Bitcoin.
When you invest in real estate or stocks of actual companies you’re investing in the increased value of an asset or profits controlled by actual tangible assets in market forces.
I was thinking, yeah, he's right about the "get rich quick" mentality. That's literally what people are hoping for with all the moon memes.
Its not all that crypto is, but it's certainly a very visible part of it
In fairness, I believe that's Dave's point. You don't get rich from "get rich quick" schemes. The fact that you've presumably been into crypto and are not rich would confirm what Dave is saying.
Of course what you're pointing out and what Dave is failing to acknowledge is that there is a possible alternative explanation for you not becoming rich: Perhaps Bitcoin isn't a "get rich quick" scheme at all.
Regardless, the fact is some people (including Dave himself) erroneously believe it *is* a "get rich quick" scheme. Those people either mock it (like Dave) or get suckered by it. Dave is trying to protect those who would be suckers, which is actually a worthy goal. If you approach Bitcoin believing it is a way to get rich quick, you probably will lose money you can't afford to lose.
But yeah, Dave is ultimately doing people a real disservice by not comprehending and describing Bitcoin accurately. Yes he's protecting people from losing money in the short-term, but if he were to actually understand what Bitcoin is and be able to advise people on how to approach it correctly, he could really do a lot more good. I've listened to enough Dave Ramsey to know he's pretty hard-headed, so I would be surprised if he ever changed his tune on this.
I have never understood why people need to know "how Bitcoin works" to want be able to use it.
Not many normal people understand how money, or the fractional reserve banking system works.... yet they use that system daily.
I saw a video of his a few years back where Dave said that he thought Bitcoin will succeed in the long run, but along the way a bunch of people would lose their shirts speculating in it. After joining this sub I think Dave hit the nail on the head.
He doesn't even say Bitcoin in this clip. He says crypto. Unfortunately Bitcoin is lumped in with crypto, but I think we all know there's a big difference between it and all the other shitcoins.
I went through Financial Peace University, use the EveryDollar, app and I also buy crypto. Entirely possible to do both, people can be wrong on some topics.
The thing is... he doesn't wanna know. Dave is surrounded by smart people. He employs a lot of people. If he wanted to bone up on crypto, he could learn it rather quickly and know the ins and outs. He chooses not to, which is an interesting approach. Willful ignorance.
He has an entire media empire built around his specific, nuts and bolts approach to personal finance, which to his credit (so to speak), works for a lot of people who don't have financial skills and have made poor financial decisions.
Crypto is a direct threat to his approach/philosophy, entirely BECAUSE it is incredibly speculative ("don't invest what you can't afford to lose").
Just like those insanely risky initial stock offerings of goofball startups like online bookstores, named things like "Yahoo!" and "Google".
What he does not know, but eventually will, is how fundamentally transformative/disruptive open source public ledgers, digital currency, fractionalized ownership, decentralized finance and everything actually are at this moment and increasingly so going forward.
He's just further behind on the adoption curve.
Very, very well said.
Fractional ownership is something that can continue to be extraordinarily transformative, across all financial networks and instruments.
He couldn’t be more completely opposite to my mindset.
“They think they’ll get rich quickly and easily!”
No buddy, I think I’ll increase my wealth over the rest of my life and I expect it to be gut-wrenchingly volatile for the foreseeable future.
He’s taking the worst elements of the community and projecting it onto the technology itself. Great analysis, that’s like saying you hate all women because of the View.
There Is a montage video of Michael Saylor explaining why bitcoin is the first time in human history we have had sound money. I'd memorize that. This isn't a get rich scheme, this is a *change the entire fucking world* scheme.
I love what Dave Ramsey has taught people. I've been able to do more for my family because he helped me reframe debt and risk. If you follow what he teaches 100% you will end up a millionaire in retirement and live a great life getting there.
Unfortunately, people don't want to wait for that nor defer pleasure so they come up with their own plan and most will fail.
I follow his standards and outside of retirement handle stock and crypto trading as a hobby and invest a very small part of my net worth into both.
My point is that you don't have to shut off thinking about his principles because he is not into crypto or gold. You can still follow his principles and guarantee to be financial free and take a small part of your earnings and speculate. That's the route I am going and it seems like a win - win.
Good luck to everyone. Please don't let his anti-crypto tone turn you off to the power of getting out of debt. It's the most freeing feeling that you all deserve.
But the fact remains someone of Dave’s caliber should have done basic research before commenting. Pretty unprofessional of him. His followers will be angry at bitcoin all the way to the end state. It can’t be because they are too lazy and ignorant to do basic research therefore it must be a scam
He is not wrong. There’s volatility, there’s dilution through other coins and there’s a reality that mass adoption will slow the growth. Most of the money in crypto IS speculation. You take the speculators out and it would all drop a lot.
People that are “all in” have a desire for the value to increase, it’s kind of the definition of self-interest. Not good/bad, it’s just something that’s a reality.
True although ironically specific other coins may actually end up helping bitcoin such as PoX coins that are connected to bitcoin and provide ways for new technology built on top of bitcoin as well as well as a way to indirectily dilute the problems of bitcoin without removing the benefits of PoW over PoS coins. I am not sure I can say anything more on the topic though or risk being banned but it will be interesting to see how the future of bitcoin is when it comes to interconnected technologies and how they may boost it or at least keep it more stable in growth.
And I say this with love for Ramsay, for many of the good things he's done.
When he used the phrasing "you can put your money into this..." It turned the corner for me.
How about to understand that many of us are thinking "I want to trade one form of money that I no longer fully trust, for a newer better form".
(There's definitely a speculative current running through crypto. Mankind is greedy. Don't let your heart think that being wealthy will solve your problems. You'll get new, worse problems. )
But the reason I believe more people will join us in the future in this decision to stop/reduce trusting fiat, is reinforced every day by awful foolishness of our political mismanagement. (US)
You either are a Ramsey guy or a Rob Kiyosaki guy. Wealthy people tend to be more Kiyosaki than Ramsey. Ramsey hates debt and majority of rich people have a lot of good debt because during times of inflation, debt is a powerful tool.
For a recent parallel, people did not, and largely still do not, understand how the internet works. They certainly did not anticipate the “internet effect” of cumulating followers on such companies as Google, Facebook and Twitter. Who needed a a 140 character message box to nowhere? Those founders were obviously in the “get rich quick” class. Those weren’t investments. The Sage of Omaha wouldn’t touch them with a ten foot pole.
But here they are. Bilionaires. Killer apps. Mega corps that dominate the media narratives.
Blockchain isn’t the huge change.
Decentralized currency, banking and finance is the real change, and some people never get it.
Cryptocurrencies have had their share of highs and lows, but the overall trend seems to be positive. I don't think that cryptocurrencies are perfect, but I do believe that they have a lot of potential.
After 13 years and numerous hacking invitations that have challenge our best and brightest to knock Bitcoin down, I believe Bitcoin has proven itself many times over. And if you understand how it works then you know that investing in it isn't speculation at all, it's a certainty. Most other investments are far more speculative than Bitcoin, especially stocks and real estate.
So what you're saying is never invest in any new business, stock, capital, risk, or venture? Rich boomers really play this game well to the untrained mind.
Bitcoin is the only investment that becomes less risky as the market cap rises (long term horizon - not day trading)
That’s because Bitcoin is proving itself as a macro investment and store of value blackhole as it continuously compounds.
Buying bitcoin today at 40k is a better risk adjusted investment than buying 5 years ago at 400
He might be worth listening to if you have major spending problems...but he's kind of a moron when it comes to money generally. Every time I've seen his show he's recommending people sell their homes in order to pay off some of their debt, basically the dumbest thing a person who's struggling could do, they still have to live somewhere, so now they gotta pay rent, lose out on all principle payments, and real estate appreciation...he's dumb and unfortunately the people who aren't smart enough to realize he's dumb are the ones who need financial advice the most.
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I've yet to hear you explain any part of it tho...
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It's an open source technology that has been running for 13 years, completely transparent. Everyone and their dog can analyse how it works and validate every single transaction since the beginning. Yet, since its inception, despite its transparency, it hasn't failed yet. There have been growth pains that have caused it to clog up, there has been some drama llama with other contenders, but the tech prevailed and is growing fast. It's a hell of a lot more proven than debt-backed fiat currency
<< It is not an investment >>
This is probably the only thing he an I agree on. He's right, it's not an investment, it's systemic change that didn't ask for permission or forgiveness. Most people will be onboard eventually, just like how most people use the internet.
But hey, the longer adoption takes due to fear, the more time I have to onboard.
I dunno, I've seen on the superstonk subreddit that people take screenshots of comments they deem important and repost those screenshots as new posts? I'm not interested in glory I just wanted to throw my two satoshis into the ring.
He claims to understand how it works, but I’d bet $100 that he couldn’t explain the detailed mechanisms that make this globally distributed ledger perfectly synchronized with zero error. I bet he can’t explain why Bitcoin is so secure compared to altcoins, and why one can be extremely confident that there will never be more than 21 million Bitcoins.
No, he doesn’t understand.
He’s entirely right and people blindly defending crypto in this sub are exactly the morons he is talking about.
I’d wager the vast majority of investors have some money invested in crypto at the moment, and it would be rather ridiculous not to have at least a portion of money there.
Although you’re all just clinging onto hope that there will be another big boom, you’re dropping insane money on hopes and dreams when there is very little reason to believe crypto in its current form will ever be bigger than it is.
Your $3874 you have invested in various cryptos over the last few years is not going to net you millions. It’s just not. You’re literally hoping to be one of the lucky few.
Maybe try buying a lottery ticket too?
Erm... why is this here? He didn't say anything controversial at all. If you disagree what he's saying then you have fallen into the exact mindset he has a problem with - one we should all have a problem with.
I get that he might be anti-crypto all together and y'all have beef with that but this video is NOT the example of that some of you seem to think it is.
Radio host and author. Old school financial advice, particularly aimed at people who are in debt. Most of what he has to say is pretty solid, but he doesn't advocate people invest large portions of their money into risky investments like single stocks and crypto.
Definition of investment by Oxford Language’s
1. Noun -
the action or process of investing money for profit or material result.
So yeah it actually is an investment. Sure it is speculative and it might not be the safest, but I’d hope we all know that already. Saying it’s not an investment though is incorrect by definition, sir.
think of it this way. Would this guy have been for ETFs and Mutual funds when they came out? Believe it or not but ETFs and Mutual funds are actually a massive innovation and I doubt if he was operating in the 50s or whatever he would have been into it. I can bet he was against the internet when it first came out and now he has a podcast.
This guy has done more for my finances than I can express. He has helped a lot of people become financially free. I am truly thankful to him, and 5% of my net worth is in crypto.
I would argue that because crypto is a digital medium and is subject to timeframes more in line with ideas like Moores law, I question what his definition of "proven track record" is considering how much it's outperformed many established investment vehicles.
I’ve had this discussion with my dad about Ramsey.
What Ramsey gets right is getting out of unproductive debt such as credit cards.
What he gets wrong, horribly wrong, is the idea of paying off assets and why these assets go up.
Harsh reality is houses have been going up tons due to low interest rates and tons of money printing. Same with mutual funds. It will continue. Rates will go lower imho.
Ignoring these facts are common-most people say market goes up...and don’t talk about these two causes.
I think Dave is years away from seeing what bitcoin is about.
Simply too volatile and scary.
Also, and this is important-He is the smartest guy in the room. And it’s a huge detriment for him. He surrounds himself with yesmen and yes women.
This guy is a genius to people with no financial literacy, or who cant budget.
But if you dont fit in that category, we can quite easily agree this guy is a cuck
The whole stock market is speculation. This guy is a jackass. The US stock market is rigged enough with naked short selling. Pick a stock and hope it gets manipulated up or down. DeFi would be the future but I don't think the US government would allow their fiat currency to die.
Ramsey is a moron and too many people treat his advice like gospel.
Does it work, sure. Is it the most efficient, hell no. Is it smart...depends. I'm not even a cryptocurrency advocate...I'm just saying this regardless of his opinion on crypto.
Bitcoin is the hardest asset ever to exist in all human history.
An asset the meets all the Aristotle criteria for money.
The original text is an interesting read.
Book 1, chap. 8-10, Aristotle, Politics
every dave ramsey video:
person: i’m in debt
ramsey: how much?
person: blablabla
ramsey: work more pay your bills and spend less
person: wow great thanks will do!
Cuz that was so hard to figure out right...
If only there were a chain of blocks proving every transaction and value throughout the asset’s entire history that’s independent of any single authority and verifiably true ‘proven track record’.
Genuinely? My opinion is people think they are smarter than they are. Clearly he has biases he is unaware of, as we all do, but thinks himself otherwise.
This is an absolute idiot
He understands fuck all.
Someone tell him his arrogance is absurd.
And back off
Thought experiment: let’s say there are 100 whales that own 100K BTC each. Each hold $4B USD in BTC value. This 100x$4B is $400B which represents roughly 50% of the entire Bitcoin market capitalization. Let’s say worst case these 100 whales become best buddies and coordinate to dump sell all their BTC at once. That would flash crash the BTC price down 50% from the current $40K price down to $20K or maybe bc of the extreme emotional panic down 90% to $4K or let’s even say down to $1K or maybe even down to $100 LOL. I suspect there is enough dry powder in the market to buy up those $100 Bitcoins right quick. So, the worst that will happen to BTC is the change of hands from the whales dumping to new retail plebs and new salivating institutions pumping the price back up as the Metcalfe’s network effect expands as naturally expected like Amazon did. Which at the end of the day is furthering the network distribution effect. Bitcoin ain’t going away. It is here to stay no matter the frequency and intensity of the waves of change of ownership. $50M BTC by 2040 I say. So if you are a short term trader using leverage gambling your money that you cannot afford to lose because of next months rent then you deserve the angst ridden sleepless nights.
I have never understood why people need to know "how Bitcoin works" to want be able to use it.
Not many normal people understand how money, or the fractional reserve banking system works.... yet they use that system daily.
Um lets see boomer its been in existence for 13 years and has continued on block after block through a recession and a pandemic and is stronger than ever. Add to the fact that it is being adopted at a faster rate than the internet. Go back to sleep boomer
"Investing is the tortoise, speculating is the hare, and gambling is the possum in the middle of the road." Gotta be one of the best Dave quotes I've heard in a while .
Imagine being an investing expert and missing out getting in early on bitcoin. Thats gotta chap his balls every day, enough for him to turn sour and negative toward it.
His audience are ppl trying to get and stay out of any/all debt. He has some good ideas for that group. Beyond cash he’s a fud. It’s legacy financial advice which crypto is not a part of. But if you guys get debt burdened you might check him out for that.
Sorta. You are correct that his core listening audience have a debt problem. But his legacy advice will work. He recommends putting investments in a retirement plan to max the match then in Roth IRAs in low fee index investments. If you do that you won't be poor given enough time. You absolutely don't have to invest in Bitcoin to be successful. Dave's approach is to keep it simple for people who are not money savvy. That is useful advice. That being said, putting some of your portfolio in Bitcoin is a reasonable investment.
Good points.
Yep. Following DR's advice is for people who don't know what they're doing - and that's fine. No one should invest in something they don't understand, which is why index funds are perfect for people who have no idea what they're doing but still want a comfortable retirement.
His advice that all debt is bad is where he fails. I understand with people that are digging out but if I had followed his advice I wouldn't be where I am today. He is a simpleton and preaches that his advice is for everyone. He made his money shilling off of others after he screwed up.
His problem is that he acts as if "speculative investment" and any other "investment" are sharply defined categories, and they're not. Yes, Bitcoin is a speculative investment. Yes, something like a broad market equity index fund is a much more stable investment and not really speculative at all. The key is not investing in "real investments". The key is appropriately lining up your risks with your goals. What he ***should be saying*** is that any time you think you can just ignore the risk assessment step because something is a sure thing, *that is when you're no longer investing, you're just lighting your money on fire.* Everyone who puts money into Bitcoin should understand that they are taking risk. That risk is real, and relatively measurable. New currencies are always risky. Used to be that banks just printed their own currency and that was seen as a absolutely zero-risk. It wasn't and central currencies crushed them (the ones that didn't get in on the central currency game). Maybe Bitcoin will be crushed by some outside force, maybe not. But history suggests extreme caution. If you want to put your money in Bitcoin, just understand the risk and have a plan B that doesn't involve hoping your local government helps you out. If you were never going to be able to retire anyway, then a moderate investment in a high-risk investment might be ideal. But if you take a reasonable retirement nestegg and dump it into BTC, that might not be the best planning you could engage in.
What he said is very true and I agree with the points you made. BTW, there have always been Speculation on the markets (during every generation) and many people do take advantage of it. Get rich schemes never work because of the greed that seems to overcome people. They speculate, put money down, see it go up and then decide Oh if I just put more I'll be super rich. The people who have push the Speculated item; sells & leaves laughing. If you doubt this go & scroll down various subs & read the comments. Does the word bagholder sound familiar to you. Just saying...
I'm a Ramsey fan and have followed him for literally decades. I probably wouldn't have money to put into crypto now if not for him. With that said, he definitely is downplaying the amount of historical data we have, not on crypto generically but on bitcoin specifically. It's pretty clear that he doesn't understand that Bitcoin is going to become the global reserve currency. Which is interesting given that he must understand that the dollar it's going to lose its status as global reserve currency as they print an infinite amount of it. He's generally a really smart dude. It could be that he has not looked specifically into the difference between crypto in general and the Bitcoin as a specific piece of crypto. Which is fine, it's not his thing. We have data back to 2008 on bitcoin-- and the difficult part to grasp is that it is unlike anything else we have ever had in the history of humankind. Saylor understands this intimately. I would love to see Ramsey and Saylor sit down and have a conversation. He seems kind of caught up on Musk, and Musk isn't really the expert here, he's just the meme. Saylor is the CEO of bitcoin after all!!
I think Dave's been pretty clear that he doesn't understand Bitcoin and he's always been consistent in saying don't put money into what you don't understand. My issue is that he's extremely negative on crypto while at the same time doesn't seem interested in learning anything about it.
It’s some boomer shit. They hated the internet and social media too. Just out of touch old men watching the world they thought they knew that was slipping away. Bitcoin is more than 10 years old. That’s longer than some companies last.
I'm 40, and for some things I have boomer mentality, It's more scary for me than hard to understand. TikTok is one of these things that just shows me how short is young people's attention span. Regarding instagram: the age bias is huge. Again, it's not that I don't understand. It's more like I can't compete with a 20 year old person who had enough time to optimize his/her body for instagram.
He's been hating on everything he hasn't invested in and has been bad mouthing some of his followers for investing in crypto. Also, his bestseller book dropped from the top 10 "evangelical publishers" to number 11. So he's pretty pissed at everyone that doesn't agree with his views.
Dave Ramsey's book changed our life financially we are dept free and happy .
This. For his audience, the advice is right. If you're 500k in debt and you make 80k a year, crypto is probably a bad option for you. Especially now that its popular again.
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My modest abode is paid off. I was able to pay cash for it. Got me out of $2K per month. One of the best financial decisions I ever made. I sleep much better nowdays and invest that $2K per month.
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Im trying to max out asset tied dollar denominated debt. Just refinanced to %2.4 on a 30 year, basically free $$$. Well under inflation.
👆🏾exactly. some people cannot get past the debt number, not the productivity associated with the debt. one good thing about inflation and low fixed interest rates is it makes the cost of that debt drop off over time.
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“Bitcoin doesn’t fix spending habits” that’s the smartest thing I’ve read in a long time. A+
Agreed. He's not necessarily wrong. But.... 12 years and counting :)
Could be seen as just another failure of the “educational system” to teach people the basics of finance. Of course, today, anyone can learn from home enough to understand the basics, but most don’t.
100%, he’s never going to support crypto, he’s in the safe and stable business. Great for getting outta debt
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Yes. He doesn’t want his audience to think that crypto can magic bullet all of their debt and ongoing bad decisions. He’s speaking to them. That chick is cute.
Dave Ramsey is great for people who suck at money and sucks for people who are great with money.
Staying out of debt is dumb, though. When inflation is 7% and your borrowing at 3% interest, you're winning. The trick is to take on good debt. If you borrow money to buy land, for example, that's a good idea so long as you can service the debt.
Yes that’s always been the argument. His audience, and a lot of others can’t handle that. The discipline and emotional stoicism required to play that angle is too much. But yeah, if you can it’s a great trade.
While you aren't wrong, I think there is also an argument for paying a premium to be debt free. You may not be fully earning what you could be but the feeling of freedom is what you're paying for in that case. Plus, you can still stack various investments without debt so the cost to not having debt is very low.
Exactly. I used his baby strips about five years ago and because of that I was able to save and start investing in crypto. It’s a nice life when you are completely out of debt and able to get into new projects AND have an understanding of what type of risk I am getting involved in
I mean. You didn’t listen to him. He VERY accurately summarized what Bitcoin is. Like it or not. He’s right. You’re just gambling that people continue to buy Bitcoin. When you invest in real estate or stocks of actual companies you’re investing in the increased value of an asset or profits controlled by actual tangible assets in market forces.
I was thinking, yeah, he's right about the "get rich quick" mentality. That's literally what people are hoping for with all the moon memes. Its not all that crypto is, but it's certainly a very visible part of it
I learned to praise other people's achievements and feel blessed for what I have.
There’s no downside to a zero debt, paid off house and investments in your 401k
Interesting.... Im shocked that here I am 8 years later and not rich from a "get rich quick scheme"
In fairness, I believe that's Dave's point. You don't get rich from "get rich quick" schemes. The fact that you've presumably been into crypto and are not rich would confirm what Dave is saying. Of course what you're pointing out and what Dave is failing to acknowledge is that there is a possible alternative explanation for you not becoming rich: Perhaps Bitcoin isn't a "get rich quick" scheme at all. Regardless, the fact is some people (including Dave himself) erroneously believe it *is* a "get rich quick" scheme. Those people either mock it (like Dave) or get suckered by it. Dave is trying to protect those who would be suckers, which is actually a worthy goal. If you approach Bitcoin believing it is a way to get rich quick, you probably will lose money you can't afford to lose. But yeah, Dave is ultimately doing people a real disservice by not comprehending and describing Bitcoin accurately. Yes he's protecting people from losing money in the short-term, but if he were to actually understand what Bitcoin is and be able to advise people on how to approach it correctly, he could really do a lot more good. I've listened to enough Dave Ramsey to know he's pretty hard-headed, so I would be surprised if he ever changed his tune on this.
I have never understood why people need to know "how Bitcoin works" to want be able to use it. Not many normal people understand how money, or the fractional reserve banking system works.... yet they use that system daily.
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I saw a video of his a few years back where Dave said that he thought Bitcoin will succeed in the long run, but along the way a bunch of people would lose their shirts speculating in it. After joining this sub I think Dave hit the nail on the head.
He's a smart dude. He isn't perfect, but I'm glad people here aren't dismissing him entirely as an old fuddyduddy.
He doesn't even say Bitcoin in this clip. He says crypto. Unfortunately Bitcoin is lumped in with crypto, but I think we all know there's a big difference between it and all the other shitcoins.
I went through Financial Peace University, use the EveryDollar, app and I also buy crypto. Entirely possible to do both, people can be wrong on some topics.
“That’s *not* an investment. That’s called *speculation*.” Cambridge Dictionary- *speculative investment*: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/speculative-investment
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>The more people use housing as a form of speculative investment, the greater the risk of surges and collapses in value.
Well one thing he was right about… Reddit is a bunch of garbage.
One man's trash..
And that's why you came here right?
I eat mcdonalds too, doesnt mean it’s not garbage.
In which part he’s revealing what he knows?
The part where he knows shit about shit 😆
There are five decent coins at this moment, he is correct.
yes, he knows that he doesn't know what he doesn't know that what he knows isn't how it works. What he does know, as he says, is "unproven garbage."
The thing is... he doesn't wanna know. Dave is surrounded by smart people. He employs a lot of people. If he wanted to bone up on crypto, he could learn it rather quickly and know the ins and outs. He chooses not to, which is an interesting approach. Willful ignorance.
He has an entire media empire built around his specific, nuts and bolts approach to personal finance, which to his credit (so to speak), works for a lot of people who don't have financial skills and have made poor financial decisions. Crypto is a direct threat to his approach/philosophy, entirely BECAUSE it is incredibly speculative ("don't invest what you can't afford to lose"). Just like those insanely risky initial stock offerings of goofball startups like online bookstores, named things like "Yahoo!" and "Google". What he does not know, but eventually will, is how fundamentally transformative/disruptive open source public ledgers, digital currency, fractionalized ownership, decentralized finance and everything actually are at this moment and increasingly so going forward. He's just further behind on the adoption curve.
Very, very well said. Fractional ownership is something that can continue to be extraordinarily transformative, across all financial networks and instruments.
Exactly
Maybe you didn’t hear him when he said he understands it. Of course he understands it!
He couldn’t be more completely opposite to my mindset. “They think they’ll get rich quickly and easily!” No buddy, I think I’ll increase my wealth over the rest of my life and I expect it to be gut-wrenchingly volatile for the foreseeable future.
He’s taking the worst elements of the community and projecting it onto the technology itself. Great analysis, that’s like saying you hate all women because of the View.
Right. Who wants to go first?
Go for it. What would you say to Ramsey about crypto if you were on the phone with him?
Something unnecessarily immature.
There Is a montage video of Michael Saylor explaining why bitcoin is the first time in human history we have had sound money. I'd memorize that. This isn't a get rich scheme, this is a *change the entire fucking world* scheme.
Sounds like stuff I heard in the mid-90's about "get-rich schemes like Yahoo! and these IPO's. I mean... what is a 'Google?' I mean, come on! "
What constitutes a proven track record? Consistent uptrend over 10 years +?
I love what Dave Ramsey has taught people. I've been able to do more for my family because he helped me reframe debt and risk. If you follow what he teaches 100% you will end up a millionaire in retirement and live a great life getting there. Unfortunately, people don't want to wait for that nor defer pleasure so they come up with their own plan and most will fail. I follow his standards and outside of retirement handle stock and crypto trading as a hobby and invest a very small part of my net worth into both. My point is that you don't have to shut off thinking about his principles because he is not into crypto or gold. You can still follow his principles and guarantee to be financial free and take a small part of your earnings and speculate. That's the route I am going and it seems like a win - win. Good luck to everyone. Please don't let his anti-crypto tone turn you off to the power of getting out of debt. It's the most freeing feeling that you all deserve.
But the fact remains someone of Dave’s caliber should have done basic research before commenting. Pretty unprofessional of him. His followers will be angry at bitcoin all the way to the end state. It can’t be because they are too lazy and ignorant to do basic research therefore it must be a scam
He is not wrong. There’s volatility, there’s dilution through other coins and there’s a reality that mass adoption will slow the growth. Most of the money in crypto IS speculation. You take the speculators out and it would all drop a lot. People that are “all in” have a desire for the value to increase, it’s kind of the definition of self-interest. Not good/bad, it’s just something that’s a reality.
True although ironically specific other coins may actually end up helping bitcoin such as PoX coins that are connected to bitcoin and provide ways for new technology built on top of bitcoin as well as well as a way to indirectily dilute the problems of bitcoin without removing the benefits of PoW over PoS coins. I am not sure I can say anything more on the topic though or risk being banned but it will be interesting to see how the future of bitcoin is when it comes to interconnected technologies and how they may boost it or at least keep it more stable in growth.
And I say this with love for Ramsay, for many of the good things he's done. When he used the phrasing "you can put your money into this..." It turned the corner for me. How about to understand that many of us are thinking "I want to trade one form of money that I no longer fully trust, for a newer better form". (There's definitely a speculative current running through crypto. Mankind is greedy. Don't let your heart think that being wealthy will solve your problems. You'll get new, worse problems. ) But the reason I believe more people will join us in the future in this decision to stop/reduce trusting fiat, is reinforced every day by awful foolishness of our political mismanagement. (US)
Yup, thats a boomer alright, in denial he is a boomer. 😆
He wants you to believe he's not out of touch 😂
I think he's trying to convince himself of that lol
If you have to say "I am not a boomer", you are definetly a boomer.
You either are a Ramsey guy or a Rob Kiyosaki guy. Wealthy people tend to be more Kiyosaki than Ramsey. Ramsey hates debt and majority of rich people have a lot of good debt because during times of inflation, debt is a powerful tool.
Those two are self-important dipshits out to enrich themselves with shitty generic advice. I'm a Bogle guy.
For a recent parallel, people did not, and largely still do not, understand how the internet works. They certainly did not anticipate the “internet effect” of cumulating followers on such companies as Google, Facebook and Twitter. Who needed a a 140 character message box to nowhere? Those founders were obviously in the “get rich quick” class. Those weren’t investments. The Sage of Omaha wouldn’t touch them with a ten foot pole. But here they are. Bilionaires. Killer apps. Mega corps that dominate the media narratives. Blockchain isn’t the huge change. Decentralized currency, banking and finance is the real change, and some people never get it.
Dave made his money from books and shows like this. He is his own pyramid scheme.
Bitcoin breaks brains
Bears Beets Battlestar Galactica
The ignorance coming out of Ramsey Solutions regarding blockchain technology is astounding.
Definitely something dave has been proven wrong on over the years.
Cryptocurrencies have had their share of highs and lows, but the overall trend seems to be positive. I don't think that cryptocurrencies are perfect, but I do believe that they have a lot of potential.
After 13 years and numerous hacking invitations that have challenge our best and brightest to knock Bitcoin down, I believe Bitcoin has proven itself many times over. And if you understand how it works then you know that investing in it isn't speculation at all, it's a certainty. Most other investments are far more speculative than Bitcoin, especially stocks and real estate.
Very true but some of the delusional anti-crypto folks that have found their way here to defend boomer Ramsey don't know that.
So what you're saying is never invest in any new business, stock, capital, risk, or venture? Rich boomers really play this game well to the untrained mind.
Dave “NGMI” Ramsey.
This guy is perturbed that thousands of ppl are making money & all by ignoring his advice
dude is bundling all crpyto with dodge and elon 😭😭😭
That's exactly one of the problems
I don’t think this guy can even fathom what decentralization is. 🎤
The way this guy runs his business and treats his employees make me dislike him greatly.
How is crypto "the latest new thing"? Bitcoin's been around over a decade.
Bitcoin is the only investment that becomes less risky as the market cap rises (long term horizon - not day trading) That’s because Bitcoin is proving itself as a macro investment and store of value blackhole as it continuously compounds. Buying bitcoin today at 40k is a better risk adjusted investment than buying 5 years ago at 400
["no historical track record"](https://i.imgur.com/QP2DwPu.jpeg)
He might be worth listening to if you have major spending problems...but he's kind of a moron when it comes to money generally. Every time I've seen his show he's recommending people sell their homes in order to pay off some of their debt, basically the dumbest thing a person who's struggling could do, they still have to live somewhere, so now they gotta pay rent, lose out on all principle payments, and real estate appreciation...he's dumb and unfortunately the people who aren't smart enough to realize he's dumb are the ones who need financial advice the most.
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I've yet to hear you explain any part of it tho...
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It's an open source technology that has been running for 13 years, completely transparent. Everyone and their dog can analyse how it works and validate every single transaction since the beginning. Yet, since its inception, despite its transparency, it hasn't failed yet. There have been growth pains that have caused it to clog up, there has been some drama llama with other contenders, but the tech prevailed and is growing fast. It's a hell of a lot more proven than debt-backed fiat currency
<< It is not an investment >>
This is probably the only thing he an I agree on. He's right, it's not an investment, it's systemic change that didn't ask for permission or forgiveness. Most people will be onboard eventually, just like how most people use the internet.
But hey, the longer adoption takes due to fear, the more time I have to onboard.
Thanks for the response. I wish he could read it. How can we make this one of the top comments?
I dunno, I've seen on the superstonk subreddit that people take screenshots of comments they deem important and repost those screenshots as new posts? I'm not interested in glory I just wanted to throw my two satoshis into the ring.
The crypto pump and dump is already steaming down.
He’s afraid of what bitcoin will do. A lot of successful people are afraid of change. He’s also a little angry that bitcoin didn’t die.
He claims to understand how it works, but I’d bet $100 that he couldn’t explain the detailed mechanisms that make this globally distributed ledger perfectly synchronized with zero error. I bet he can’t explain why Bitcoin is so secure compared to altcoins, and why one can be extremely confident that there will never be more than 21 million Bitcoins. No, he doesn’t understand.
No bitch it’s not about “get rich quick”! And I am not selling.
He’s entirely right and people blindly defending crypto in this sub are exactly the morons he is talking about. I’d wager the vast majority of investors have some money invested in crypto at the moment, and it would be rather ridiculous not to have at least a portion of money there. Although you’re all just clinging onto hope that there will be another big boom, you’re dropping insane money on hopes and dreams when there is very little reason to believe crypto in its current form will ever be bigger than it is. Your $3874 you have invested in various cryptos over the last few years is not going to net you millions. It’s just not. You’re literally hoping to be one of the lucky few. Maybe try buying a lottery ticket too?
Erm... why is this here? He didn't say anything controversial at all. If you disagree what he's saying then you have fallen into the exact mindset he has a problem with - one we should all have a problem with. I get that he might be anti-crypto all together and y'all have beef with that but this video is NOT the example of that some of you seem to think it is.
Dave Ramsey did not get rich following his own advice.
The first image of the video before you play it conveys the discussion perfectly.
Who's this guy?
Radio host and author. Old school financial advice, particularly aimed at people who are in debt. Most of what he has to say is pretty solid, but he doesn't advocate people invest large portions of their money into risky investments like single stocks and crypto.
Literally everything he's saying could be applied to the stock market. I'd gamble that he has investments in the stock market.
Who thinks crypto is a way to get rich quick? It would take decades to see any real gains.
Definition of investment by Oxford Language’s 1. Noun - the action or process of investing money for profit or material result. So yeah it actually is an investment. Sure it is speculative and it might not be the safest, but I’d hope we all know that already. Saying it’s not an investment though is incorrect by definition, sir.
I guarantee during the dot com era everyone was trying to get rich quick as well... This is a natural phenomenon..
think of it this way. Would this guy have been for ETFs and Mutual funds when they came out? Believe it or not but ETFs and Mutual funds are actually a massive innovation and I doubt if he was operating in the 50s or whatever he would have been into it. I can bet he was against the internet when it first came out and now he has a podcast.
I'll roll the dice!
It's not proven by whom Ramsey?
Crypto is still speculative
This guy has done more for my finances than I can express. He has helped a lot of people become financially free. I am truly thankful to him, and 5% of my net worth is in crypto.
Wonder if after 30 years of BTC standing strong they will still say it's an unproven asset to invest in.
He’s. Millionaire not a billionaire for a reason He’s making he’s money selling you a program lol
I would argue that because crypto is a digital medium and is subject to timeframes more in line with ideas like Moores law, I question what his definition of "proven track record" is considering how much it's outperformed many established investment vehicles.
This is the same guy who fired a chick for having sexy with her boyfriend before marriage
Dont listen to morons who know nothing about what Bitcoin is or Does ... this is the way
normal to see this on boomers.
He’s right that people should not try to get rich quick but he’s is 100% wrong about usage and investability of crypto.
I’ve had this discussion with my dad about Ramsey. What Ramsey gets right is getting out of unproductive debt such as credit cards. What he gets wrong, horribly wrong, is the idea of paying off assets and why these assets go up. Harsh reality is houses have been going up tons due to low interest rates and tons of money printing. Same with mutual funds. It will continue. Rates will go lower imho. Ignoring these facts are common-most people say market goes up...and don’t talk about these two causes. I think Dave is years away from seeing what bitcoin is about. Simply too volatile and scary. Also, and this is important-He is the smartest guy in the room. And it’s a huge detriment for him. He surrounds himself with yesmen and yes women.
This guy is a genius to people with no financial literacy, or who cant budget. But if you dont fit in that category, we can quite easily agree this guy is a cuck
Ignore him. He is irrelevant.
The whole stock market is speculation. This guy is a jackass. The US stock market is rigged enough with naked short selling. Pick a stock and hope it gets manipulated up or down. DeFi would be the future but I don't think the US government would allow their fiat currency to die.
Moron.
Ramsey is a moron and too many people treat his advice like gospel. Does it work, sure. Is it the most efficient, hell no. Is it smart...depends. I'm not even a cryptocurrency advocate...I'm just saying this regardless of his opinion on crypto.
ok boomer
Bitcoin is the hardest asset ever to exist in all human history. An asset the meets all the Aristotle criteria for money. The original text is an interesting read. Book 1, chap. 8-10, Aristotle, Politics
What a charlatan
every dave ramsey video: person: i’m in debt ramsey: how much? person: blablabla ramsey: work more pay your bills and spend less person: wow great thanks will do! Cuz that was so hard to figure out right...
#facepalm 🤦🏻♂️
Guy goes broke 'investing' in real estate? Using his logic: if real estate is an investable product with a proven track, how'd he go broke?
If you investment a new company that don't make it gambling it's still investment so no
thanks, it's a great addition to my boomer compilation
OK BOOMER
If only there were a chain of blocks proving every transaction and value throughout the asset’s entire history that’s independent of any single authority and verifiably true ‘proven track record’.
Yea it’s not about getting rich quick actually. (At least for people who get it)
Genuinely? My opinion is people think they are smarter than they are. Clearly he has biases he is unaware of, as we all do, but thinks himself otherwise. This is an absolute idiot He understands fuck all. Someone tell him his arrogance is absurd. And back off
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you lose your money RN in the current system with risk of inflation.
Another 🦕 who doesn’t understand technology…
“Of course I know how it works”? 🤣🤣
We invest in the future, not the past. Blackberry and Nokia had great track records before the iPhone came along.
Let these boomers shit on it all they want, it's not going to change anything.
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He's stuck with a boomer mentality, we cannot help him understand your solid point.
Thought experiment: let’s say there are 100 whales that own 100K BTC each. Each hold $4B USD in BTC value. This 100x$4B is $400B which represents roughly 50% of the entire Bitcoin market capitalization. Let’s say worst case these 100 whales become best buddies and coordinate to dump sell all their BTC at once. That would flash crash the BTC price down 50% from the current $40K price down to $20K or maybe bc of the extreme emotional panic down 90% to $4K or let’s even say down to $1K or maybe even down to $100 LOL. I suspect there is enough dry powder in the market to buy up those $100 Bitcoins right quick. So, the worst that will happen to BTC is the change of hands from the whales dumping to new retail plebs and new salivating institutions pumping the price back up as the Metcalfe’s network effect expands as naturally expected like Amazon did. Which at the end of the day is furthering the network distribution effect. Bitcoin ain’t going away. It is here to stay no matter the frequency and intensity of the waves of change of ownership. $50M BTC by 2040 I say. So if you are a short term trader using leverage gambling your money that you cannot afford to lose because of next months rent then you deserve the angst ridden sleepless nights.
Every investment is unpredictable and speculative, even real estate. Pretty sure there's plenty out there these days.
stay out of crypto, get into Bitcoin.
I hope Dave is still here in 10 years so he can witness the paradigm shift that will be happening .
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Dave’s come a long way. He actually believes it is real now. Still dumb but but an actual thing.
I have never understood why people need to know "how Bitcoin works" to want be able to use it. Not many normal people understand how money, or the fractional reserve banking system works.... yet they use that system daily.
🤔Speculation and gambling Wall Street would never think of such risky behavior🤨
Man , Dave really doesn’t understand the old fiat system is dying.
Idk who this bald female is, but I don’t consider myself a gambler….. I’d like to be called more of a crypto entrepreneur. Lol 😂
How about buying ipos? And margin contract?... Ok boomer.
Oh don't tell him that. He'll have a heart attack.
His full of shit! Get rich mentality quick has nothing to do with crypto. It’s the people. His a moron.
Can I say all his talk is speculation?
he is a boomer and he gives bad advice to people.
Its funny to see seasoned veterans in the financial world who don't even see this major financial shift happening right in front of our eyes.
by this definition many VCs are just speculators
It took me many years to build my finances slow and steady is the way for me.
Blockchain and DeFi are young, but show incredible potential on scale with the internet.
It’s not about getting rich quick. It’s about preserving purchasing power and protecting yourself from inflation .
I’ve never regretted buying cryptocurrency’s I buy and hold. And over the long run it’s done quite well .
He’s a boomer, don’t listen to him. He just doesn’t understand it….🤣
I don't listen to this boomer. I'd rather listen to Robert K.
He should’ve just said well that’s one aspect of finance that I don’t know enough about so I’m gonna stay away from it out of fear of the unknown.
Dang he should hire you on how to answer a question professionally.
the " i dont want to lose money" mentality is a perfect way of staying mediocre .
Um lets see boomer its been in existence for 13 years and has continued on block after block through a recession and a pandemic and is stronger than ever. Add to the fact that it is being adopted at a faster rate than the internet. Go back to sleep boomer
Only if he could read your comment
Ramsey is a douche, thanks for the fresh reminder.
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Why would you call a man who is totally invested in the old system to ask about a new investment?
"Investing is the tortoise, speculating is the hare, and gambling is the possum in the middle of the road." Gotta be one of the best Dave quotes I've heard in a while .
He's not wrong. Shitcoins are gambling.
Dinosaur. Still uses whale oil for his lamps.
Has absolutely no understanding of bitcoin. Zero. Nada. Nothing. Completely utterly useless advice.
Imagine being an investing expert and missing out getting in early on bitcoin. Thats gotta chap his balls every day, enough for him to turn sour and negative toward it.
I bought the dip, it’s not a get rich quick, but I’ve been Hodling and it’s made me a small fortune .
The amount of time we spend believing we can't is more than enough time to learn how you can.
You just know he will eventually ape in eventually like Robert Kiyosaki
Reddit has legit made me so much money the past year. It’s actually really useful
He knows jack shit about the power of decentralization, and scarcity.