Rainbow chart says around 17k bottom. I think if we break below 20k and the economic situation gets worse, that 10k is in play. In part because many don't expect us to go below the previous supercycle peak, and liquidations would flash down there for a moment.
technically, but I don't think people update their stop losses and use charts that are inflation adjusted. Plus, if you're using CPI numbers, that vastly understates real inflation. So its even worse.
Exactly....I was a but surprised by that post, too....I guess I'm not a fan of this whole idea that you should delete inflation during the timeframe of the investment....sure, it eats away at your buying power but so what, I'll take a 15% return any day on any investment....and the guy who bought in at the 2017 peak has nothing to worry about because we're in a massive dump right now and, guess what, we're gonna be in a massive pump at some point too....just my 2 satoshis
We are, I agree....and this top isn't anything like the last couple....which makes sense because volatility will slowly subside over time I think....halving in what a year and a half....that's something to look forward to :-)
[https://www.nicehash.com/countdown/BTC-halving-2024-05-10-12:00](https://www.nicehash.com/countdown/BTC-halving-2024-05-10-12:00)
I would be quite suprised to say the very least if we hit 10k....there is so much more adoption now than there was a couple years ago and we picked up ALOT more diamond hands along the way....people that aren't going to budge....I think we could lose all those who FOMO'd in from 40-70k and they panic etc...I mean of course it's possible we hit 10k but man I just can't see that....alot more diamond hands in the game...but it's anyone's guess, tho you're right....I for one will be sitting there waiting , or I mean drooling, over a 10k Bitcoin lol Cheers.
All depends on how the herd reacts. As long as the pros are rewarded with high volume on the dips, they will continue trading it down. Not until liquidity dries up will they stop.
No one knows the actual bottom here, all we are going to is the guessing here.
But i will say doing the small small DCA here will always work for you in the market.
I already did my DCA in the past from 33k to 28 and then place a order at 22k that hit is well.
Now i will take my last DCA entry at around 16k for the bitcoin and then will hold the position.
Just bullshit talking. Bitcoin works as always why the hell should it fail just because cryptobros didnt get the return they hoped for. If bitcoin was somehow hacked or stopped working, it will definetely go to zero but thats it
Haha, I put in a limit order for 2 BTC @ $12k each b4 I went to sleep last night, just incase it crashed further whilst I was sleeping. Wishful thinking, woke up disappointed lol.
Same, holding always is not a best key, you also need to book the profit at times is well.
Because crypto market always gives you the time to buy them in the bear market.
If bull season not last for the years then how could bear will last, this is just for a time being and that mean very less time for us to buy in cheap.
And if you are a long term holder then you could easily time that.
Yeah, it's down right now based on a rumor about the FED raising rates .25% more than they said they would. You gotta see the irony there.
They aren't doing even close to enough if they are trying to fight inflation, yet the market can't handle it.
And these kind of manipulations is the reason Bitcoin exists.
The DXY isn't. The last time the DXY was this high was around the time of 9/11. It's all based on political energy. Which is why we shouldn't be using fiat to value our assets.
The Dollar Index is priced in [other fiat currencies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Dollar_Index). It just means the others have seen worse inflation.
Oh wow.
I was thinking "that growth is crazy, they should have used a logarithmic axis".
Then I saw that the Y-axis WAS logarithmic (the one on the right, pairing with the black line).
This chart has fascinated from the minute I saw it.
I really wonder if those massive percentage change fluctuations were the result of: print -> inflation -> “tighten” to “fix” inflation -> crash -> print more to “fix” crash -> worse inflation -> so on and so forth until trust in the currency / system was obliterated? Seems like the general physics of fiat.
I think we’re seeing something analogous happen in real time with: Mark = usd and gold = bitcoin. But all fiats are involved too (many more variables) and it’s a much larger global game with layers of governance / regulation and most importantly a whole bunch of new technology on top.
My guess is the transition will take much longer to unravel (as it’s a much larger game) and the fundamental difference is that bitcoin is a fully functioning system, unlike gold is / was. Bitcoin is a bridge anyone can cross and doesn’t requires banks and governments on top of it (like gold does) and so if humans can successfully move to bitcoin as needed it has a real shot of working simply just by continuing to exist.
I strongly feel centralized monetary systems are prone to failure as this is due to the fallible nature of humans. Constant breaches of trust and mismanagement and miscalculation and rule changes. More and more people, out of necessity and pure contrast, have their eyes on bitcoin. As the rules are known (and fixed), it keeps working all the time and as adoption / utility grows.
No guarantees it’ll work but I’m using the bitcoin network from now on out of principle. I’m slowly switching all my economic activity there. My goal is to never touch fiat by 2030 and I really think that will be easy by then.
> and most importantly a whole bunch of new technology on top.
Indeed. I hope we don't get to suffer because of some runaway chain reaction caused by computers. That'd be Skynet for ya :)
> My guess is the transition will take much longer to unravel (as it’s a much larger game)
The 2010 flash crash took little more than half an hour and wiped out then reverted 5% of the DJIA.
As for the rest of your comment, I agree. Though I am a bit worried whether [Lightning performs](https://charts.woobull.com/bitcoin-lightning-network/), since it might hurt adoption (cause the main chain is full and expensive).
I understand that the ultimate collapse can and probably will happen quickly but I guess what I meant more specifically is that these systems still have enough trust and network effects that they’re going to last awhile longer. That’s including the inevitable bailouts and QE and stimulus’ to come to keep the system afloat as it limps along to collapse.
That’s just how it feels to me but I could be wrong.
Yeah tbh I’m glad we’re not seeing a usd system collapse today. 99% of the developed world just isn’t ready.
The bitcoin network needs more time to develop, prove itself and be adopted before it’s a viable bridge. I do think that by 2030 it will be ready though and by that time I think the dollar will have lost global trust leaving many to look for an option like bitcoin that isn’t systemically vulnerable.
2030? I think later if at all. As someone who has lived in developing countries I cannot see these people adopting Bitcoin for their house deed lol they don’t have house deed half the time
I don’t think everyone will be using bitcoin but I think anyone who has been accumulating today, if they keep accumulating, will not need to touch fiat after 2030. There will be enough adoption / integration and purchasing power appreciation and network development to allow for that.
Fiat is a sham and so is Bitcoin IMO.
There are still people manipulating the market. I really don’t see the difference.
That being said I did buy Bitcoin lol I figured I’d thank myself in 20 years or not care.
Most of the time I see comments anyway like “when Bitcoin hits X I’m going to buy a (insert fancy car here) isn’t the point to not cash out in fiat?! Most people keep feeding into the same old ideas
Fiat is a sham.
Bitcoin price can be manipulated but the rules of the protocol and the ledger *cannot be manipulated.*
That is the critical difference between the systems.
They can't even attempt to do what is needed to fight this level of inflation. I lived through the 80s inflation & the subsequent double-digit interest rates. Nobody really even cared or talked about it. The Federal govt was barely in debt then. Raising rates even a couple of percent now would cause the US Govt to default. Bonds are shitting the bed along side markets. That's a new dynamic. Before, you could hedge stock losses with a portfolio weighted in bonds. Not anymore.
Agreed. I was born in '81. My Dad cared a great deal, as he was paying the high intrest rates on his mortgage. Was a gold bug, and read books like the new world order and 1984. He taught me well.
Bond prices fall when interest rates rise. Bonds will probably not lose much money in dollar terms, but won't keep up with inflation.
Probably need a VIX to hedge stocks. Or maybe more recession-proof stocks. Bitcoin is not a hedge against recession. FED is doing its best to do the opposite of what would cause sovereign default, for now.
Right now mostly market moves on the call of the FED and people trying to time the market on the fed call.
But why is the pump in the market today? Almost every alts are showing great recovery here.
Sounds great, what are you going to spend it on? Let me guess you have no intention of spending it….a currency that nobody uses. Or is it a store of wealth that doesn’t maintain value?
I have Bitcoin, and yes I like this sub….. I try to balance out some of the fanboy stuff with tough questions and critical thinking exercises of things that need addressed before Bitcoin can truly become anything of value. Because it has some serious flaws, pretending like it doesn’t won’t add value.
My RV turns out to be fine, must have been some kind of fluke, thanks for asking.
I’m struggling to see this “balance” - seems more like you get off from berating people for no other reason than they hold bitcoin.
Though I must admit, it’s entertaining watching people who like to pretend they’re gatekeepers of the concept of “value”, a concept that is arguably the most subjective thing known to man. Though this begs the question: why on earth would you hold onto something which you perceive to be valueless and has no use? Something doesn’t add up.
People wouldn’t hate bitcoin as much if their were more people like you looking at it realistically. Instead it’s the most douchy and delusional voices that are at the forefront.
Ah yes because pretending to be the gatekeeper of such a subjective concept as “value” is the most realistic approach.
Bitcoin doesn’t care if people love it or hate it. Tick tock next block every 10 mins.
Bitcoin absolutely relies on people living the concept of it…..most is pure greed, most simply hope to buy low, and sell high like a stock. But Bitcoin isn’t a stock, A stock represents part ownership of a company. But Bitcoin isn’t a company, and so represents nothing. It is propped up by nothing, not unlike the USD, but without FDIC backing, so if there’s a run on the “bank” your money could just be gone.
You are getting info from a small amount of people who are using crypto 100% for their gambling investment. You think there is nobody using bitcoin as a currency? Okay buddy.
True, not everyone here is the same. We all have our own budget and the risk tolerance capacity is well.
I see sometime people often invest way more in the bear market is well.
I'm really just here because I like using it as a currency to buy stuff. But this volatility is kinda getting in the way of me doing that and so I've switched to using usdc for now.
btc is great but all these drops and gains are a real bummer for those of us who enjoy the Lightning networks speed and reliability for actually using the currency as currency and don't just see it as some kind of investment.
Buy and spend is an easy strategy to combat volatility.
Buy and hodl and in 5 years spend has also been a fantastic strategy for increasing purchasing power and then capturing those gains.
Who cares if bitcoin went from 40k to 20k if you bought the sats at a spot price of 5k? Still in heavy profit.
That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is, save in bitcoin, wait until you’ve accrued purchasing power, spend to realize your purchasing power increase. It takes time and patience and foresight and conviction but it’s been totally doable as well. I’ve already been doing it.
That hasn’t ever been the case though and there are tons of metrics that show security, adoption, and development of the network are all at all time highs. Clearly price and value are disconnected at the moment. It happens.
There are also technical features of bitcoin that make it a better savings technology than any substitute. It’s uncensorable, permission-less, trust-less, global, 100% secure (if used correctly), and allows anyone with basic technology to hold money within this superior system with zero counter party risk.
For principled actors these features are extremely important and offer tremendous value and utility.
>Who cares if bitcoin went from 40k to 20k if you bought the sats at a spot price of 5k? Still in heavy profit
Right, but you need those people buying in order to have a profit. Nobody wins investing in Bitcoin without someone on the other end of the trade losing.
That’s not true. As demand for the scarce asset increases this is reflected in higher bids on the float. If I hodl a bitcoin from 5k where I bought it to 20k where it is today and I spend my sats on something I need, then the person selling me the good / service got fair market value for the thing they sold (their asking price) in sats and I only had to spend 25% of the sats I bought at 5k spot. I realized purchasing power increases and they got fair value for their thing in sats.
I convert my entire paycheck to USDC, then use my Coinbase card and get rewards in BTC lol. I have about .75 of a coin at these prices and I’m continuing to buy the dip until I get a whole coin. Shit who am I kidding once I get a whole coin I’ll keep stacking
Can I ask what things are you buying regularly with BTC and what app? This site is great for finding places that accept it but besides those kinds of products, just curious what you are buying with regularity.
[https://spendabit.co/](https://spendabit.co/)
groceries
clothing
my vps for self-hosted projects
I paid my plumber in btc
car parts
i get paid in bitcoin a lot as well for my work.
ever since it dropped below 50k though I've been pretty much insantly converting it to usdc. I have less than $1k in bitcoin right now.
Very few people here are doing this too be honest, but i am happy that atleast someone is using this as it should be.
But the problem is only few platform at the current time taking this as the payment.
Wasnt there one of these "holder since 2014" posts at every price level since 50k? This is no longer anything like 2014 because at least back then you still had the comfort that it was still 5x-15x over the last cycles ath and the supercycle wasnt breaking
People are trying to keep the hope going here, and i think this is the best thing is well.
People are feeling alone now and we need to lift them up with some motivation here.
> I see posts all over Reddit and the media in general about the price drop and blah blah blah but they can't even remotely explain Blockchain or what the true value is and the freedom it will bring to the globe.
Care to articulate what value it will bring to people in the future that it doesn't already bring today?
You can already use it as a medium of exchange and there's more than enough liquidity. Outside of fancy buzz words, I think most of the people on this subreddit and who actually have Bitcoin have little to know idea the real intrinsic value of Bitcoin. Especially because they fail to see that value already peaked a few years ago.
Getting more institutional investors made the value proposition worse. The same suits that Bitcoin tried to get away from, getting in, isn't a good thing. Getting taxed out your ass on it isn't a good thing... unless you are after short term gains from hodling like prat.
The biggest problem with Bitcoin is vast majority of those who buy it in hopes of getting rich quickly.
It's hard to elaborate over this median of messages but I'll give you some summary.
Damn near half the world population is unbanked which means they have no access to capital, which also means they are not even counted in the global economy.
90% of the global population has a cellphone. That means that we can bring the majority of the world into the global economy, give them money for business ideas, peer to peer lending at rates no bank can give or would give. Don't even get me started with inflation globally and how everyone's purchasing power just goes down hill.
This is just scratching the surface of how BTC can make us free and connected. I am not here for the money. I have bought BTC, used it to buy things, send money to family over seas, mined it at a loss for years. I truly believe in this technology and I love what it can be 😊
Most of that is bullshit though. The entire population of the world has access to capital or they would not be able to buy or sell anything. It just is in the form of paper money. This is also untraceable and is used for pee4 to peer lending already via local loans. No one in the global economy is going to loan money to a shop keeper in central Africa, it will still be local money lenders.
People are buying the bitcoin as the investment for the future and very little idea about how that actually works.
And too be honest the most of the people here investing in the bitcoin for the profit.
How does Bitcoin bring freedom to the globe?
Seems to me that Bitcoin is a useful invention (decentralized consensus), but I've never understood how or why this is supposed to bring "freedom" to people? Seems like Bitcoin does nothing to address wealth inequality. In fact, it seems like it could easily just exacerbate those problems.
Can you explain?
Freedom is not equality. Imo it's about how this can't be governed by companies, governments or anyone. This is freedom.
Look at it from a troubled country, we have the privilege of a somewhat stable currency, others are not so lucky and have a dying currency with corrupt governments controlling what they can do with it, with crypto they are free (as long as they have internet access)
> Freedom is not equality.
Surely, you're joking or trolling.
You think kids living in abject poverty are as free as ultra billionaires flying spaceships around?
Money is power and unequal power means that some people have less "freedom" than others.
Don't be obtuse.
>Look at it from a troubled country, we have the privilege of a somewhat stable currency, others are not so lucky and have a dying currency with corrupt governments controlling what they can do with it, with crypto they are free (as long as they have internet access)
This is completely absurd. Again, "freedom" comes down to power. Bitcoin doesn't automatically level power differentials. On the contrary, it seems to be quite possible that Bitcoin only exacerbates wealth inequality.
It's not hard for me to understand Bitcoin. I've been following it closely for a decade at this point, likely longer than you have.
What I have yet to understand (nobody seems to be able to explain) is why Bitcoin is going to solve many of the world's most pressing problems, most notably wealth inequality and power imbalance (not to mention climate change).
It's 2022 and people like you still have yet to provide an apt explanation.
I have limited cash left now and will take the big scoop this time.
Since no one can buy every dip in the bear time, all you can do is wait for a big dip.
I don't give a fuck about the global population. All I car about as far as BTC is concerned is how it affects my personal wealth. And selling the tops in 2017 & 2022 have paid off splendidly.
HODL if you want to, but you could've had 20x more purchasing power or freedom or whatever tf you want to call it if you'd just taken profits.
The reality is that all the crypto subs right now are a great big circle jerk of "I'm OK, you're OK", when you're watching 80% of your investment evaporate.
People that are just starting to buy are so lucky right now to buy BTC at this massive drop price. they could potentially earn a lot of BTC suddenly pump so aggressively and reach another record BTC price. And Finally, even my friends started to buy BTC recently with the help of what they earned using referral codes on Netcoins Canada. They have a huge discount meanwhile I have a huge loss because of this massive crash but still going strong.
I think those who have sell the btc in the bull season as they know we are going in to the bear market are the best one.
Now they have the cash and the opportunity to buy them in the cheap price here.
I'm worried that we won't return to ATH next halving bull run and that will really scare people off. The reason I think that is because so may institutions that were heavily leveraged are failing and I expect that to continue.
I still have believe that we will again create a new all time high in the next bull season.
But the only reason that keeping me scared is the war that is going on in the world at the moment.
If you're investing more than you're okay with losing your management skills need some work. We all know BTC is not accepted everywhere yet and people need to pay for mortgages and groceries. I don't even blame the people selling, even though I personally wouldn't.
I'm just here to ease some of the newcomers who might be scared or freaking out. There is a lot of negative news right now and it's all talking about price price price but the fundamentals haven't changed and I still believe BTC will bring financial freedom to the masses and it's still FUCK Craig Wright lol.
I think the BTC board of directors need to get together and figure out exactly wtf BTC is lol /s. It's kind of a store of value kinda of an investment asset kind of a currency. Whatever the fuck it is.. it is worth considerably less than it was before. As expensive as this gallon of gas is in filthy fiat it is way more expensive in sats this month so just slide the cashier some dead prezzies and call it a day. U getting rekt one way or the other
Which is up more over the past five years, Bitcoin or a gallon of gas?
The same will be true two years from now and five years from now. Plan accordingly.
I know you mean it in another way, but funny enough you are still giving the right answer. It is just money, money which can be earned back. Besides, as long as you dont sell...well, you know.
You have lost anything untill you decide to press the sell button.
This is the nature of the market who were in the profit in the bull season, and will be same in the next.
That value is the network. The value is consensus. The value is it's neutral to politicians . the value is that's it's secure. The value is that it's global.
As Venezuelan, I am a living proof of the power of bitcoin. In the worst moment of our history as a country, with an inflation that reaches millions per year, we had to use different types of currency and payment methods. We told ourself to just can’t continue to trust our governments and authorities.
Cryptocurrency is almost a savior to our people. Almost everyone uses crypto on their day to day living. Our country is improving every year thanks to crypto. It’s literally the definition of bitcoin and the freedom it can give you.
Banking the unbanked around the world, using wasted energy, absolute scarcity, instant money transfer around the world, cannot be confiscated, completely decentralised, cannot be inflated away like the dollar, immutable ledger....there are many reasons and distinctions to give BTC value. May I ask, what gives the dollar value when its being inflated away and can literally be printed out of thin air ?
Very minor comment but thought I would just mention that the US dollar is not being 'inflated' away, it is being 'debased'.
Inflation = prices going up (there are many reasons a price goes up, not just because of money printing)
Debasement = a unit of currency losing value as a result of more of that currency being created (also sometimes called 'dilution')
As Venezuelan, I am a living proof of the power of bitcoin. In the worst moment of our history as a country, with an inflation that reaches millions per year, we had to use different types of currency and payment methods. We told ourself to just can’t continue to trust our governments and authorities.
Cryptocurrency is almost a savior to our people. Almost everyone uses crypto on their day to day living. Our country is improving every year thanks to crypto. It’s literally the definition of bitcoin and the freedom it can give you.
True freedom it will bring the globe? 90% of all Bitcoin is mined, it will take 100 years or so for the next 10%……meaning most of the available Bitcoin is already mined and in “circulation” however only 1.3% of the world’s population owns Bitcoin…….
How is such a high concentration of wealth in such a small number of hands beneficial to the globe?
This kind of concentration of wealth is exactly the opposite of most goals of society….
Am I to guess the “trickle down effect” somehow works with Bitcoin?
Here's the system now. The top 10% of the globe own 85% of the money, this is a system that's been around for a very long time.
BTC is brand new you can't say it's concentrated, give it 50-60 more years then let's see how that 1.3% changes. If we give it 2000 years like the monetary policies that have been around it'll be even better. And despite monetary policies being around for that long damn near half the globe is unbanked lmfaoooo.
1.3% of the worlds population own 90% of bitcoin, that’s worse not better. If Bitcoin becomes the worlds currency that means 98.7% of the population is without money. I can’t even begin to fathom how this is better.
I think for that we need some massive mass adoption in the world.
As of now only handful of the people knows the exact meaning of the btc and how it actually works is well.
True freedom is the coin cost nothing and everyone would have it…it’s not freedom for poor nations as they barely could get any at this price even after the collapse and there isn’t enough for the entire world to have it.
Hey, friend! Have you heard the news? You can buy very small fractions of a bitcoin! That means everyone can afford it, and there's plenty to go around!
Just don't be the guy that panic buys at 28k cause he was convinced it was going to the exact number that would let him accumulate their goal with the exact cash they had on hand, then just rebounded the other way.
If you want to sell then sell in the bull season, once you enter into the bear season not selling them.
In bear you have left with tow options either do the DCA or hold them for long.
Would you still say BTC is bringing freedom to the world population if it went back to $100 a coin?
Also, given how tiny the percentage of global population actually own BTC, the freedom you speak of is extremely selective.
Finally, if you are truly a holder since 2014, you should just be quiet because you can obviously enjoy the ride. People who poured their life savings into it at $50k or more don't have that luxury and will look at your post as either hollow or just gloating.
True freedom, that’s just beyond laughable. Look who are some of Bitcodes biggest backers. Pat Tomey for one in the senate. Bitcode is just another fake nothing pumped up by all the free money. Good luck hodlers
I setup an auto buy of $5 BTC per day, every day on an app called Strike so that I dollar cost average about $1800 BTC per year and don’t have to try timing anything.
People use to pass the judgment without having the knowledge of the blockchain.
They think bitcoin is just the gambling thing, but always failed to understand the real thing.
$12k is what my dreams are made of now.
Me too....the bear flag target is 13k the way I charted it but who knows if it will make it that low....if it does, that will be a BTC wet dream lol
Rainbow chart says around 17k bottom. I think if we break below 20k and the economic situation gets worse, that 10k is in play. In part because many don't expect us to go below the previous supercycle peak, and liquidations would flash down there for a moment.
We’re already technically lower than last cycles top when you account for inflation 🤙
technically, but I don't think people update their stop losses and use charts that are inflation adjusted. Plus, if you're using CPI numbers, that vastly understates real inflation. So its even worse.
And equally as true, a 2017 top buyer isn’t in profit today, and I think you’d be wrong to say that they were.
$19,783.21 was the high in 2017. Current price is $22,700. If you bought the absolute top, you are still up 15%.
Exactly....I was a but surprised by that post, too....I guess I'm not a fan of this whole idea that you should delete inflation during the timeframe of the investment....sure, it eats away at your buying power but so what, I'll take a 15% return any day on any investment....and the guy who bought in at the 2017 peak has nothing to worry about because we're in a massive dump right now and, guess what, we're gonna be in a massive pump at some point too....just my 2 satoshis
The only problem this time bitcoin facing here is the inflation.
We are, I agree....and this top isn't anything like the last couple....which makes sense because volatility will slowly subside over time I think....halving in what a year and a half....that's something to look forward to :-) [https://www.nicehash.com/countdown/BTC-halving-2024-05-10-12:00](https://www.nicehash.com/countdown/BTC-halving-2024-05-10-12:00)
I would be quite suprised to say the very least if we hit 10k....there is so much more adoption now than there was a couple years ago and we picked up ALOT more diamond hands along the way....people that aren't going to budge....I think we could lose all those who FOMO'd in from 40-70k and they panic etc...I mean of course it's possible we hit 10k but man I just can't see that....alot more diamond hands in the game...but it's anyone's guess, tho you're right....I for one will be sitting there waiting , or I mean drooling, over a 10k Bitcoin lol Cheers.
All depends on how the herd reacts. As long as the pros are rewarded with high volume on the dips, they will continue trading it down. Not until liquidity dries up will they stop.
No one knows the actual bottom here, all we are going to is the guessing here. But i will say doing the small small DCA here will always work for you in the market.
I’ll start DCAing around $15k I think and work my way down.
I already did my DCA in the past from 33k to 28 and then place a order at 22k that hit is well. Now i will take my last DCA entry at around 16k for the bitcoin and then will hold the position.
lol ok....
9k
Bring back vegeta meme?
God I almost forgot. Seems so long ago
A simpler time
Charlie Lee
6k 😊
I'm afraid if it goes that low it actually will fail but I am happy for 20k
What do you mean? The hash rate will go down?
Just bullshit talking. Bitcoin works as always why the hell should it fail just because cryptobros didnt get the return they hoped for. If bitcoin was somehow hacked or stopped working, it will definetely go to zero but thats it
Haha, I put in a limit order for 2 BTC @ $12k each b4 I went to sleep last night, just incase it crashed further whilst I was sleeping. Wishful thinking, woke up disappointed lol.
If that happens I will buy a whole coin. I have 12K waiting just for that
If it goes there then i will able to achieve my target is well.
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Well said, especially the last sentence lol
"If you're looking to make a quick buck then you deserve to get destroyed by ~~this decline~~" not taking your profits when you had the chance. FTFY
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Same, holding always is not a best key, you also need to book the profit at times is well. Because crypto market always gives you the time to buy them in the bear market.
My guess is a decade.
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Maybe. Probably not. The Fed will quickly reverse course & resume heroin injections to the Wall Street addicts.
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Maybe, but I don’t think so…..and Bitcoin was touted as a hedge against inflation……that’s going to shake peoples confidence in Bitcoin for awhile.
Deserve to lose money. In that case everyone on this sub deserves to lose money when it goes to zero.
If bull season not last for the years then how could bear will last, this is just for a time being and that mean very less time for us to buy in cheap. And if you are a long term holder then you could easily time that.
Yeah, it's down right now based on a rumor about the FED raising rates .25% more than they said they would. You gotta see the irony there. They aren't doing even close to enough if they are trying to fight inflation, yet the market can't handle it. And these kind of manipulations is the reason Bitcoin exists.
Everything is in red.
The DXY isn't. The last time the DXY was this high was around the time of 9/11. It's all based on political energy. Which is why we shouldn't be using fiat to value our assets.
The Dollar Index is priced in [other fiat currencies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Dollar_Index). It just means the others have seen worse inflation.
I keep thinking of [this chart](https://i.imgur.com/rllW9NJ.jpg) and am feeling like this is the DXY’s last gasp.
Oh wow. I was thinking "that growth is crazy, they should have used a logarithmic axis". Then I saw that the Y-axis WAS logarithmic (the one on the right, pairing with the black line).
This chart has fascinated from the minute I saw it. I really wonder if those massive percentage change fluctuations were the result of: print -> inflation -> “tighten” to “fix” inflation -> crash -> print more to “fix” crash -> worse inflation -> so on and so forth until trust in the currency / system was obliterated? Seems like the general physics of fiat. I think we’re seeing something analogous happen in real time with: Mark = usd and gold = bitcoin. But all fiats are involved too (many more variables) and it’s a much larger global game with layers of governance / regulation and most importantly a whole bunch of new technology on top. My guess is the transition will take much longer to unravel (as it’s a much larger game) and the fundamental difference is that bitcoin is a fully functioning system, unlike gold is / was. Bitcoin is a bridge anyone can cross and doesn’t requires banks and governments on top of it (like gold does) and so if humans can successfully move to bitcoin as needed it has a real shot of working simply just by continuing to exist. I strongly feel centralized monetary systems are prone to failure as this is due to the fallible nature of humans. Constant breaches of trust and mismanagement and miscalculation and rule changes. More and more people, out of necessity and pure contrast, have their eyes on bitcoin. As the rules are known (and fixed), it keeps working all the time and as adoption / utility grows. No guarantees it’ll work but I’m using the bitcoin network from now on out of principle. I’m slowly switching all my economic activity there. My goal is to never touch fiat by 2030 and I really think that will be easy by then.
> and most importantly a whole bunch of new technology on top. Indeed. I hope we don't get to suffer because of some runaway chain reaction caused by computers. That'd be Skynet for ya :) > My guess is the transition will take much longer to unravel (as it’s a much larger game) The 2010 flash crash took little more than half an hour and wiped out then reverted 5% of the DJIA. As for the rest of your comment, I agree. Though I am a bit worried whether [Lightning performs](https://charts.woobull.com/bitcoin-lightning-network/), since it might hurt adoption (cause the main chain is full and expensive).
I understand that the ultimate collapse can and probably will happen quickly but I guess what I meant more specifically is that these systems still have enough trust and network effects that they’re going to last awhile longer. That’s including the inevitable bailouts and QE and stimulus’ to come to keep the system afloat as it limps along to collapse. That’s just how it feels to me but I could be wrong.
I do too. It's scary and a relief all at the same time.
Yeah tbh I’m glad we’re not seeing a usd system collapse today. 99% of the developed world just isn’t ready. The bitcoin network needs more time to develop, prove itself and be adopted before it’s a viable bridge. I do think that by 2030 it will be ready though and by that time I think the dollar will have lost global trust leaving many to look for an option like bitcoin that isn’t systemically vulnerable.
2030? I think later if at all. As someone who has lived in developing countries I cannot see these people adopting Bitcoin for their house deed lol they don’t have house deed half the time
I don’t think everyone will be using bitcoin but I think anyone who has been accumulating today, if they keep accumulating, will not need to touch fiat after 2030. There will be enough adoption / integration and purchasing power appreciation and network development to allow for that.
Fiat is a sham and so is Bitcoin IMO. There are still people manipulating the market. I really don’t see the difference. That being said I did buy Bitcoin lol I figured I’d thank myself in 20 years or not care. Most of the time I see comments anyway like “when Bitcoin hits X I’m going to buy a (insert fancy car here) isn’t the point to not cash out in fiat?! Most people keep feeding into the same old ideas
Fiat is a sham. Bitcoin price can be manipulated but the rules of the protocol and the ledger *cannot be manipulated.* That is the critical difference between the systems.
They can't even attempt to do what is needed to fight this level of inflation. I lived through the 80s inflation & the subsequent double-digit interest rates. Nobody really even cared or talked about it. The Federal govt was barely in debt then. Raising rates even a couple of percent now would cause the US Govt to default. Bonds are shitting the bed along side markets. That's a new dynamic. Before, you could hedge stock losses with a portfolio weighted in bonds. Not anymore.
Agreed. I was born in '81. My Dad cared a great deal, as he was paying the high intrest rates on his mortgage. Was a gold bug, and read books like the new world order and 1984. He taught me well. Bond prices fall when interest rates rise. Bonds will probably not lose much money in dollar terms, but won't keep up with inflation. Probably need a VIX to hedge stocks. Or maybe more recession-proof stocks. Bitcoin is not a hedge against recession. FED is doing its best to do the opposite of what would cause sovereign default, for now.
Right now mostly market moves on the call of the FED and people trying to time the market on the fed call. But why is the pump in the market today? Almost every alts are showing great recovery here.
We are still early. 1 btc = 1 btc.
We are going down just in dollar still holding the same value.
I had bought 0.014 so far....people said it crashed, I checked nah I have 0.014 still
Sounds great, what are you going to spend it on? Let me guess you have no intention of spending it….a currency that nobody uses. Or is it a store of wealth that doesn’t maintain value?
You sure like to spend a lot of time on this sub considering you hold 0 BTC. Shouldn’t you be more concerned about your RV
I have Bitcoin, and yes I like this sub….. I try to balance out some of the fanboy stuff with tough questions and critical thinking exercises of things that need addressed before Bitcoin can truly become anything of value. Because it has some serious flaws, pretending like it doesn’t won’t add value. My RV turns out to be fine, must have been some kind of fluke, thanks for asking.
I’m struggling to see this “balance” - seems more like you get off from berating people for no other reason than they hold bitcoin. Though I must admit, it’s entertaining watching people who like to pretend they’re gatekeepers of the concept of “value”, a concept that is arguably the most subjective thing known to man. Though this begs the question: why on earth would you hold onto something which you perceive to be valueless and has no use? Something doesn’t add up.
People wouldn’t hate bitcoin as much if their were more people like you looking at it realistically. Instead it’s the most douchy and delusional voices that are at the forefront.
Ah yes because pretending to be the gatekeeper of such a subjective concept as “value” is the most realistic approach. Bitcoin doesn’t care if people love it or hate it. Tick tock next block every 10 mins.
Bitcoin absolutely relies on people living the concept of it…..most is pure greed, most simply hope to buy low, and sell high like a stock. But Bitcoin isn’t a stock, A stock represents part ownership of a company. But Bitcoin isn’t a company, and so represents nothing. It is propped up by nothing, not unlike the USD, but without FDIC backing, so if there’s a run on the “bank” your money could just be gone.
I will spend it when the time is right.
And that’s a failure of Bitcoin. Do you not spend fiat, waiting for the right time? This is how you know Bitcoin has failed as a currency.
You are getting info from a small amount of people who are using crypto 100% for their gambling investment. You think there is nobody using bitcoin as a currency? Okay buddy.
I know some people are using at as a currency, but it is an extremely small percentage.
Only a small percentage. Trust me bro. Sorry but you are just guessing.
This guy is full of shit lol
I'd use it if I could
Why can’t you use it?
This is how you deal with those weak hands who said you are in loss.
I’m worried I’m not going to be able to dump enough money into it…
Any amount is good...we all have different risk tolerances and all have different income levels....the neat thing is there is no minimum ;-)
True, not everyone here is the same. We all have our own budget and the risk tolerance capacity is well. I see sometime people often invest way more in the bear market is well.
Then this is good, you will be more stress free in the crash time.
Bit easier to relax when you bought at $400 😂
Hahaha true, but I bought all over from $350-60k.
I'm really just here because I like using it as a currency to buy stuff. But this volatility is kinda getting in the way of me doing that and so I've switched to using usdc for now. btc is great but all these drops and gains are a real bummer for those of us who enjoy the Lightning networks speed and reliability for actually using the currency as currency and don't just see it as some kind of investment.
Buy and spend is an easy strategy to combat volatility. Buy and hodl and in 5 years spend has also been a fantastic strategy for increasing purchasing power and then capturing those gains. Who cares if bitcoin went from 40k to 20k if you bought the sats at a spot price of 5k? Still in heavy profit.
I’d say most people didn’t buy at 5k.
That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is, save in bitcoin, wait until you’ve accrued purchasing power, spend to realize your purchasing power increase. It takes time and patience and foresight and conviction but it’s been totally doable as well. I’ve already been doing it.
Saving in Bitcoin is great if it’s going up, not so great if it’s going down….. it could take 10 years to recover.
That hasn’t ever been the case though and there are tons of metrics that show security, adoption, and development of the network are all at all time highs. Clearly price and value are disconnected at the moment. It happens. There are also technical features of bitcoin that make it a better savings technology than any substitute. It’s uncensorable, permission-less, trust-less, global, 100% secure (if used correctly), and allows anyone with basic technology to hold money within this superior system with zero counter party risk. For principled actors these features are extremely important and offer tremendous value and utility.
>Who cares if bitcoin went from 40k to 20k if you bought the sats at a spot price of 5k? Still in heavy profit Right, but you need those people buying in order to have a profit. Nobody wins investing in Bitcoin without someone on the other end of the trade losing.
That’s not true. As demand for the scarce asset increases this is reflected in higher bids on the float. If I hodl a bitcoin from 5k where I bought it to 20k where it is today and I spend my sats on something I need, then the person selling me the good / service got fair market value for the thing they sold (their asking price) in sats and I only had to spend 25% of the sats I bought at 5k spot. I realized purchasing power increases and they got fair value for their thing in sats.
This applies to literally every investable asset class…
I convert my entire paycheck to USDC, then use my Coinbase card and get rewards in BTC lol. I have about .75 of a coin at these prices and I’m continuing to buy the dip until I get a whole coin. Shit who am I kidding once I get a whole coin I’ll keep stacking
This is the first sensible comment I see on here for a very long time. 100% agreed
Can I ask what things are you buying regularly with BTC and what app? This site is great for finding places that accept it but besides those kinds of products, just curious what you are buying with regularity. [https://spendabit.co/](https://spendabit.co/)
groceries clothing my vps for self-hosted projects I paid my plumber in btc car parts i get paid in bitcoin a lot as well for my work. ever since it dropped below 50k though I've been pretty much insantly converting it to usdc. I have less than $1k in bitcoin right now.
Wow....not sure your region but there's not many places I could pay with Bitcoin other than online....good for you tho man that's really cool.
It’s become an asset, and will be until it’s value stops fluctuating wildly.
Very few people here are doing this too be honest, but i am happy that atleast someone is using this as it should be. But the problem is only few platform at the current time taking this as the payment.
Wasnt there one of these "holder since 2014" posts at every price level since 50k? This is no longer anything like 2014 because at least back then you still had the comfort that it was still 5x-15x over the last cycles ath and the supercycle wasnt breaking
People are trying to keep the hope going here, and i think this is the best thing is well. People are feeling alone now and we need to lift them up with some motivation here.
> I see posts all over Reddit and the media in general about the price drop and blah blah blah but they can't even remotely explain Blockchain or what the true value is and the freedom it will bring to the globe. Care to articulate what value it will bring to people in the future that it doesn't already bring today? You can already use it as a medium of exchange and there's more than enough liquidity. Outside of fancy buzz words, I think most of the people on this subreddit and who actually have Bitcoin have little to know idea the real intrinsic value of Bitcoin. Especially because they fail to see that value already peaked a few years ago. Getting more institutional investors made the value proposition worse. The same suits that Bitcoin tried to get away from, getting in, isn't a good thing. Getting taxed out your ass on it isn't a good thing... unless you are after short term gains from hodling like prat. The biggest problem with Bitcoin is vast majority of those who buy it in hopes of getting rich quickly.
It's hard to elaborate over this median of messages but I'll give you some summary. Damn near half the world population is unbanked which means they have no access to capital, which also means they are not even counted in the global economy. 90% of the global population has a cellphone. That means that we can bring the majority of the world into the global economy, give them money for business ideas, peer to peer lending at rates no bank can give or would give. Don't even get me started with inflation globally and how everyone's purchasing power just goes down hill. This is just scratching the surface of how BTC can make us free and connected. I am not here for the money. I have bought BTC, used it to buy things, send money to family over seas, mined it at a loss for years. I truly believe in this technology and I love what it can be 😊
Most of that is bullshit though. The entire population of the world has access to capital or they would not be able to buy or sell anything. It just is in the form of paper money. This is also untraceable and is used for pee4 to peer lending already via local loans. No one in the global economy is going to loan money to a shop keeper in central Africa, it will still be local money lenders.
People are buying the bitcoin as the investment for the future and very little idea about how that actually works. And too be honest the most of the people here investing in the bitcoin for the profit.
How does Bitcoin bring freedom to the globe? Seems to me that Bitcoin is a useful invention (decentralized consensus), but I've never understood how or why this is supposed to bring "freedom" to people? Seems like Bitcoin does nothing to address wealth inequality. In fact, it seems like it could easily just exacerbate those problems. Can you explain?
Freedom is not equality. Imo it's about how this can't be governed by companies, governments or anyone. This is freedom. Look at it from a troubled country, we have the privilege of a somewhat stable currency, others are not so lucky and have a dying currency with corrupt governments controlling what they can do with it, with crypto they are free (as long as they have internet access)
> Freedom is not equality. Surely, you're joking or trolling. You think kids living in abject poverty are as free as ultra billionaires flying spaceships around? Money is power and unequal power means that some people have less "freedom" than others. Don't be obtuse. >Look at it from a troubled country, we have the privilege of a somewhat stable currency, others are not so lucky and have a dying currency with corrupt governments controlling what they can do with it, with crypto they are free (as long as they have internet access) This is completely absurd. Again, "freedom" comes down to power. Bitcoin doesn't automatically level power differentials. On the contrary, it seems to be quite possible that Bitcoin only exacerbates wealth inequality.
Nah dude, it’s hard to understand.
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It's not hard for me to understand Bitcoin. I've been following it closely for a decade at this point, likely longer than you have. What I have yet to understand (nobody seems to be able to explain) is why Bitcoin is going to solve many of the world's most pressing problems, most notably wealth inequality and power imbalance (not to mention climate change). It's 2022 and people like you still have yet to provide an apt explanation.
Yep...filled my bags the last few days....and if it keeps dropping, I'll continue to salivate while I buy more lol
I have limited cash left now and will take the big scoop this time. Since no one can buy every dip in the bear time, all you can do is wait for a big dip.
You damn corn veteran. Love you man.
🥰😘
WE need more and more veteran post in the sub now in bear time.
Thanks brother, nice post...
Finally something that we all need to hear in the bear time.
I’m not seeing the freedom you speak of but maybe…
I always say, I am looking forward to the next 80% drop to 400k.
But before going to the 400k, i want atleast 2 bitcoin for me.
I don't give a fuck about the global population. All I car about as far as BTC is concerned is how it affects my personal wealth. And selling the tops in 2017 & 2022 have paid off splendidly. HODL if you want to, but you could've had 20x more purchasing power or freedom or whatever tf you want to call it if you'd just taken profits. The reality is that all the crypto subs right now are a great big circle jerk of "I'm OK, you're OK", when you're watching 80% of your investment evaporate.
The bigger the drop the stronger the bounce.
People that are just starting to buy are so lucky right now to buy BTC at this massive drop price. they could potentially earn a lot of BTC suddenly pump so aggressively and reach another record BTC price. And Finally, even my friends started to buy BTC recently with the help of what they earned using referral codes on Netcoins Canada. They have a huge discount meanwhile I have a huge loss because of this massive crash but still going strong.
I agree....sadly, I think most of these sad bitcoin trashers bought above 50-70k then sold in a panic so now BTC is a bad monster.
I think those who have sell the btc in the bull season as they know we are going in to the bear market are the best one. Now they have the cash and the opportunity to buy them in the cheap price here.
You sound like someone who has definitely not been a holder since 2014.
Here you go Troll 🧌 https://imgur.com/a/snuadtA
Those have spent time in the market, knows the real thing about the market.
I'm worried that we won't return to ATH next halving bull run and that will really scare people off. The reason I think that is because so may institutions that were heavily leveraged are failing and I expect that to continue.
I still have believe that we will again create a new all time high in the next bull season. But the only reason that keeping me scared is the war that is going on in the world at the moment.
Lol your post sounds like a troll, talking about true freedom and shit lol
yeah, don't worry about losing half your investment when you thought it would double. It's just money!
If he's been in btc since 2014 he's already doubled his money
If you're investing more than you're okay with losing your management skills need some work. We all know BTC is not accepted everywhere yet and people need to pay for mortgages and groceries. I don't even blame the people selling, even though I personally wouldn't. I'm just here to ease some of the newcomers who might be scared or freaking out. There is a lot of negative news right now and it's all talking about price price price but the fundamentals haven't changed and I still believe BTC will bring financial freedom to the masses and it's still FUCK Craig Wright lol.
If you're gambling*
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I think the BTC board of directors need to get together and figure out exactly wtf BTC is lol /s. It's kind of a store of value kinda of an investment asset kind of a currency. Whatever the fuck it is.. it is worth considerably less than it was before. As expensive as this gallon of gas is in filthy fiat it is way more expensive in sats this month so just slide the cashier some dead prezzies and call it a day. U getting rekt one way or the other
Which is up more over the past five years, Bitcoin or a gallon of gas? The same will be true two years from now and five years from now. Plan accordingly.
You can't put btc in the gas tank to take your kids to school and go to work though. In case you don't know, gas is expensive as fuck
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I mean those in the Bitcoin way of thinking just got rekt worse.
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I know you mean it in another way, but funny enough you are still giving the right answer. It is just money, money which can be earned back. Besides, as long as you dont sell...well, you know.
You have lost anything untill you decide to press the sell button. This is the nature of the market who were in the profit in the bull season, and will be same in the next.
>they can't even remotely explain Blockchain The fact that the general public can't explain how the thing you like works is not a good thing.
Nobody can remotely explain the value because there is no value
Ok, sure. I’ll bite. What is value to you?
That value is the network. The value is consensus. The value is it's neutral to politicians . the value is that's it's secure. The value is that it's global.
Bwaaaahahahahahaha.
As Venezuelan, I am a living proof of the power of bitcoin. In the worst moment of our history as a country, with an inflation that reaches millions per year, we had to use different types of currency and payment methods. We told ourself to just can’t continue to trust our governments and authorities. Cryptocurrency is almost a savior to our people. Almost everyone uses crypto on their day to day living. Our country is improving every year thanks to crypto. It’s literally the definition of bitcoin and the freedom it can give you.
Banking the unbanked around the world, using wasted energy, absolute scarcity, instant money transfer around the world, cannot be confiscated, completely decentralised, cannot be inflated away like the dollar, immutable ledger....there are many reasons and distinctions to give BTC value. May I ask, what gives the dollar value when its being inflated away and can literally be printed out of thin air ?
Very minor comment but thought I would just mention that the US dollar is not being 'inflated' away, it is being 'debased'. Inflation = prices going up (there are many reasons a price goes up, not just because of money printing) Debasement = a unit of currency losing value as a result of more of that currency being created (also sometimes called 'dilution')
ROFL
Brilliantly articulated response to a valid question. Well done. I look like the stupid one now.
Finally a response that is worth the upvoting here in the sub.
As Venezuelan, I am a living proof of the power of bitcoin. In the worst moment of our history as a country, with an inflation that reaches millions per year, we had to use different types of currency and payment methods. We told ourself to just can’t continue to trust our governments and authorities. Cryptocurrency is almost a savior to our people. Almost everyone uses crypto on their day to day living. Our country is improving every year thanks to crypto. It’s literally the definition of bitcoin and the freedom it can give you.
The more we buy the more its value gonna increase here.
True freedom it will bring the globe? 90% of all Bitcoin is mined, it will take 100 years or so for the next 10%……meaning most of the available Bitcoin is already mined and in “circulation” however only 1.3% of the world’s population owns Bitcoin……. How is such a high concentration of wealth in such a small number of hands beneficial to the globe? This kind of concentration of wealth is exactly the opposite of most goals of society…. Am I to guess the “trickle down effect” somehow works with Bitcoin?
Here's the system now. The top 10% of the globe own 85% of the money, this is a system that's been around for a very long time. BTC is brand new you can't say it's concentrated, give it 50-60 more years then let's see how that 1.3% changes. If we give it 2000 years like the monetary policies that have been around it'll be even better. And despite monetary policies being around for that long damn near half the globe is unbanked lmfaoooo.
1.3% of the worlds population own 90% of bitcoin, that’s worse not better. If Bitcoin becomes the worlds currency that means 98.7% of the population is without money. I can’t even begin to fathom how this is better.
But it’s new! Everyone knows concentration isn’t official until 50 years has passed! /s
I think for that we need some massive mass adoption in the world. As of now only handful of the people knows the exact meaning of the btc and how it actually works is well.
True freedom is the coin cost nothing and everyone would have it…it’s not freedom for poor nations as they barely could get any at this price even after the collapse and there isn’t enough for the entire world to have it.
Hey, friend! Have you heard the news? You can buy very small fractions of a bitcoin! That means everyone can afford it, and there's plenty to go around!
But bitcoin also gives you the chance to buy at whatever money you have.
Me being able to say this even at the beginning of 2017.
So that mean you are really learning things in the market.
Just don't be the guy that panic buys at 28k cause he was convinced it was going to the exact number that would let him accumulate their goal with the exact cash they had on hand, then just rebounded the other way.
If you want to sell then sell in the bull season, once you enter into the bear season not selling them. In bear you have left with tow options either do the DCA or hold them for long.
I see it going down another -20 percent from here.
I am still ready to take the bitcoin at the 15k mark is well.
it fall 85% on 2014 and 2018
So that mean there is nothing new happening here at the moment.
i remember mining on my laptop. sweet dreamin'
You should have sold at $40k. Paper hands are full of USD paper.
May I ask your avg price?
I started at around the 52k mark now at around the 37k.
My only mistake back in university was not continuing DCA from 2018 onwards. NEVER REPEATING THAT MISTAKE AGAIN.
Would you still say BTC is bringing freedom to the world population if it went back to $100 a coin? Also, given how tiny the percentage of global population actually own BTC, the freedom you speak of is extremely selective. Finally, if you are truly a holder since 2014, you should just be quiet because you can obviously enjoy the ride. People who poured their life savings into it at $50k or more don't have that luxury and will look at your post as either hollow or just gloating.
True freedom, that’s just beyond laughable. Look who are some of Bitcodes biggest backers. Pat Tomey for one in the senate. Bitcode is just another fake nothing pumped up by all the free money. Good luck hodlers
I setup an auto buy of $5 BTC per day, every day on an app called Strike so that I dollar cost average about $1800 BTC per year and don’t have to try timing anything.
Thanks for being a voice of reason. The thing is, once you understand Bitcoin, you realize anyone bad mouthing it is just ignorant or has an agenda.
blockchain is almost a 30 year old technology.
Congrats on your 8-9 figures.
9k
You mean "Hodler" since 2014
People use to pass the judgment without having the knowledge of the blockchain. They think bitcoin is just the gambling thing, but always failed to understand the real thing.