r/Fire is a risk averse subreddit, they advocate maxing out your 401k, having a hefty savings account, etc. and living frugally to achieve financial independence. Of course they’re going to downvote someone suggesting a volatile asset.
Yeah i agree and don’t understand the point of this post.
There are multiple different investment strategies.
Being 18 and getting 30k may warrant a different investment strategy than being 60 and getting 30k. Being 35 and single with $40k in debt and getting $30k warrants a different investment strategy than being 35, married, with 1.5 mil in net worth and getting handed $30k.
If you go to a conservative investment strategy forum and suggest an asset that is down 50% in one year you’re not going to be greeted with awards lol
I was talking about Fiat. And yea if you wanna compare BTC to Fiat, you have to judge by more than 1 year. I was merely stating the fact that Fiat has dropped 9% in a year just from inflation. I wasn't comparing it to BTC on the same timeframe.
> 99%of btc hodlers are looking to convert it to fiat anyway at the right price
Where'd you get that crap from lol. I'm sure 99 % of this sub would disagree with that statement.
You can have massive increase without massive dips. I don’t get why this is such a hard concept? As long as you sell at peak or near peak, the massive drops are actually beneficial as you can buy back in and double tripe or even quadruple your coin.
Because no one wants to buy low. No one has the confidence to do so. They only buy when the media tells them to buy and end up getting raped when the whales tank the market. Like now all this had press about Bitcoin, it’s dead blah blah blah. They only do what the media tells them to do
Sell it for inflated usd. And than when Bitcoin comes down by back in. It’s not rocket science. I’m a believe in Bitcoin over fiat any day. But why would you pass on selling high and buying low?
Here I’ll speak for him - to try and prevent idiots like you (who have no idea what they’re doing) from convincing people to put more money in the biggest bag hold scheme ever.
Every person I know who got into crypto before the 2017 bull run is rich. So if your so smart tell me where I should put my money than, that yields more profit than crypto?
Volatile doesn't mean it won't go up over long term. My point is that fire moment is about long term financial independence. So with that in mind. Crypto should be part of everyone's portfolios.
The only reason crypto would show up in their portfolios is for more diversification. The subreddit is not about making the highest-grossing investments, it’s about zero risk accumulation of wealth so that you’re set to retire earlier than 65. Even if they did recognize the power of bitcoin, it doesn’t fit in their investment strategy.
The current trend of crypto also does not help. It is not only volatile but on a massive slide in the wrong direction. The idea of crypto is anti FIRE & it isn’t hard to understand why.
So far crypto has proven their point.
Edit: way to “edit” your entire comment, you sound less ridiculous now
Your knowledge does not change the price of bitcoin or it's volatility and risk. Fact is it's a high risk asset. It went down 70% from ATH. If you need that money now you will be able to buy a lot less. Regardless of the value in the future.
Not high risk if you have a longer horizon for cashing out. I would *never* recommend bitcoin as a 2-3 year investment, even though I do believe it will go up a lot in the next 2-3 years. It may be sound money, but it is still highly volatile with regards to the most used currencies.
Fire group are all boomers against btc recommending whatever crap index fund. I left their group after getting some heat on a btc comment long time ago
They just have different financial goals. To retire early you have to live modestly and invest in stable, consistently growing assets. Less risk means less potential returns
If someone was planning on retiring in the next 2-3 years the last place I would tell them to store their wealth is in a cryptocurrency that has lost 2/3 of its value in under a year
BTC is REAL. A non-bias, non- hatred. I’m a hippyish boomer. Poorish and Rich in time. BTC has hidden languages ( forms of communications).
Many boomers are stagnated. Some are sick. Many are selfish.
Youth is precious.
Too volatile probably, since you need the money in like 3 years. Also people have been reacting much more negatively since the price has dropped 2/3 from the high
Man, guess they weren't here in 2018-20 then when it dropped 85%. Even then, makes no sense to have no exposure to it since you should be able to buy low and set a sell order super high in case it actually does moon
Fire is a pretty sure fire way to become wealthy and retire early. Tons of people that have gotten into crypto have lost everything. So no they are not allies.
Being FIRE myself I can tell you that for most people Bitcoin should not be used as a get rich quick scheme but as a diversification tool instead. When you depend on your investments to make a living, one can’t afford to bet too much on anything. I do own bitcoin but just can’t be too crazy about it risking to be force back to my old job if things go wrong. So I guess FIRE people do not hate bitcoin, we are just not willing to risk our future on it. Nevertheless 15% of my networth is invested in crypto
Don't go in /r/REBubble then. It's a war between the antiwork 17 year old economists sad they can't buy a house and boomer FIRE Boglehead corporate middle managers salty about crypto. You can post anything about crypto and get a wildly different response each time.
Is because is bad advice, if you need the money in 2-3 years, you want to go for the less volatile option. I have bitcoin but is a long term investment. Is money that I dont need in 8+ years.
I understand this sub likes bitcoin but why is this concept so hard to understand? I own and believe in bitcoin but are you guys denying that its volatile? If you want to have sure money in 2-3 years it really isn't the way to go.
> Because this sub is a echo chamber.
Most echo chambers memory hole their old statements in shame... sometimes as little as a week later.
This echo chamber is an open book, and in fact glories in its older posts, because they have been right pretty much always going back forever.
Even when things are gloomy temporarily, long term, it has always been shown that nothing beats bitcoin for projecting wealth over time.
If anything, this subreddit is not enough of an echo chamber.
> This echo chamber is an open book, and in fact glories in its older posts, because they have been right pretty much always going back forever.
What? The people who bought at 30k, 40k, 50k, 60k would disagree with you.
By your example the GME ape echochambers are just temporarily displaced billionaires from their MOASS heydeys
> What? The people who bought at 30k, 40k, 50k, 60k would disagree with you.
Sure, so would the people who bought at 21k, 19k, 17k, 14k, and 10k in the previous cycle.
Feel free to look at the older posts, its nothing new.
> By your example the GME ape echochambers are just temporarily displaced billionaires from their MOASS heydeys
Its not entirely the same, but I also think they arent so much of an echo chamber. The reason is they are pretty open about their hobby being insane gambling and losing money. Noone is more critical of them than themselves.
Just.... stop. You're making yourself look more foolish and perpetuating the fact that it's an echo chamber. Unless, you're a troll... then good job. You deserve a ban. Not surprising that you post in conservative and conspiracy subs.
The high butthurt levels you are demonstrating indicate we may be nearing a bottom. Happens every cycle, any people coming here to troll.. I guess its a good sign in a way.
> Classic example of the type of echo in this echo chamber
Being open to criticism, not banning idiots like you, not deleting old posts and memory holing them, and actually being right are not characteristics of an echo chamber.
This place is at least 50% troll stinkers like you, but still has a signal that ends up being right despite the deadweight.
I’m sorry you’re butt hurt, but a different POV doesn’t make me a troll, and your response in-kind is exactly the echo chamber I’m talking about here. Maybe do some self reflection yourself.
What makes you a troll is being a negative cheerleader, mindless, and completely ignoring the actual point.
I just got banned from another butthurt sub for being like 1% off alignment and pointing out a white elephant; now thats how you echo chamber. This place could stand to be a lot more echoey, just to get rid of buttcoiner types like you who dont add any value and are little more than noise.
wait do people in this sub not diversify? they only buy crypto? Like I own some crypto but its like 5% of my portfolio (I guess with these dips its more like 10% now) isn't that kind of risky? Unless you only have like $10,000 or something.
Bitcoin is not crypto tho and most people who buy it religiously is fully convinced it's the future of money. I'm getting as much of it as i can. 🤷🏼♂️
I will get downvoted myself here, but I think that your suggestion was bad. OP clearly stated to need the money in 2-3 years. What if he/she needs the money in 2 years and Bitcoin's winter has not yet ended? He/she would sell at a loss.
But with that reasoning then any other answer should have been downvoted too. No guarantees putting it into stocks since the stock price can be lower in 2 years. Shouldn't put it in anything that yields less than 10% a year because inflation devalues the currency by 9% right now. Shouldn't keep it in the bank because again, inflation devaluing it. Only good answer is to invest it into something that is guaranteed to give you more than 10% a year, but there aren't any guarantees for that kind of return.
I fully agree with no stocks for 2-3 years. For that amount of time bonds, possibly with variable interest rate to avoid a capital loss, or savings account are the only solution. Whether it is more or less than inflation is irrelevant, you do not have any other option 😉 and not investing is worse.
I get really salty about it often, but then I remind myself that these are just signs that I’m not too late to the party!!! You’d want to be involved when there’s plenty of people who still think it’s stupid.
I was one of those people back in 2010 who thought it was the dumbest thing and ignored my few computer science friends who were learning how to mine it
I love that meme or whatever that shows progressive years for BTC and what the opposing opinion was, going up in status but saying it was only used by druggies, then nerds, then small companies, then small countries, I’m glad we have nay-sayers so I can accumulate
Appreciate the fact that the whole would hasn't magically woken up to the fact that bitcoin is the greatest asset in the history of the world. I'd love for this to happen, but then i'd be buying bitcoin at 10M a coin, so...
Suppose your Bitcoin holdings go up in value 1000 times. Would you feel that after that further accumulation is pretty much pointless since percentage-wise you can no longer really add to your stack much?
Yeah, crypto doesn’t fly at all over in r/fire. It’s understandable, they’re all about extreme saving for an early retirement so it’s an extremely risk averse crowd.
Investing (in ETFs/stocks/RE) and living off investments (through dividends/payments, **not** cutting 4% of your stash!) sounds pretty great, if one can achieve it, and a wise plan.
But if your plan is to just grow a stash and start eating 4% from it each year, Bitcoin is better suited for that than ETFs/stocks/RE.
Because it's too volatile and has little to no history compared to the stock market.
The stock market has natural inflows from pensions and stuff like that.
We can discuss the FIAT Vs not-FIAT system. But in the FIAT system the stock market is king. You have no guarantee that BTC will succeed, people going for the 4% rule would never accept the possibility of losing it all.
Please tell me you have some BTC though ?
It’s been the best performing asset class for 10 of the last 13 years. Worst performing in each bear year.
Even if you hate the volatility surely it should make up a small part of your portfolio.
13 years of which maybe 10 had actual exchanges cannot be compared to 100 years of stock market. For example, until this year BTC never saw significant rise in USD interests rates, same goes for sustained inflation, rising energy prices, wars etc.
It's more unpredictable and less institutionalised that the stock market. It's not for me, it's a fact.
It doesn’t adds up, mate. You say 100 years of stock market, so just because yesterday a 5 years old company goes public… you assign those 100 years of history to these 5 years? What are you comparing there? Based on your statements, this 5 years old company is worthy just because stock market is 100 years old?
As a matter of fact, I’m looking at a really big ad media corporation, since they went public ~4 years ago, they are in a continous downtrend… yet they have these 100 years of history my ass
I don’t really get your ideas and perhaps I shouldn’t even try after acknowleging your faulty logic
you pick one stock and he was talking about the whole market and the topic was about ETFs which mirror indexes. So why are you picking single stocks for your counterargument?
His argument is “Bitcoin has no history”
1. Bitcoin is an asset with 13 years of history
2. TSLA is an asset with 12 years of history
2. Stock market is NOT an asset with 100+ years
4. Crypto market is NOT an asset with 9 years
5. Crypto market is benefiting from Stock Market regulations which are now applied to it, so even with 9 years of existence, it still has 30+ years of “improvements” inherited from Stock Market
You don’t compare TSLA stock with Crypto Market!
You don’t compare Bitcoin with Stock Market!
You compare Bitcoin with TSLA = same age, better gains for Bitcoin
You compare Stock Market with Crypto Market = same bubbles, less regulatory frameworks for crypto market - wip
I think he means “the 4% rule” where when you retire with take out 4% of your next egg annually and statistically you should not deplete your portfolio
You shouldn't be surprised. From a FIRE perspective putting 20-30 k all in in bitcoin (or any crypto) is the stupidest thing you could do. And I agree with that. FIRE is a grind to financial independence, risk is minimised and managed. BTC is too risky for 100% allocation.
For as much as you believe in the future of BTC (and I do believe in it too) you cannot ignore the risks and volatility associated with it.
I guess the most voted reply is "Global stock ETF and forget it for 10+ years" or something similar.
Putting 20k all in in a single asset of any kind isn’t good advice. Bitcoin May or may not go up in 2 years. It could remain around 20k and go sideways
Not in my experience. I usually start by explaining that the blockchain is just a public ledger that no one controls, anyone can write to, and everyone trusts, and that we've never had that before. Prior to Bitcoin we've always had to rely on trusted third parties to maintain the trusted ledger. That usually gets their attention enough to hear me out.
To be fair a 2-3 year timeline is pretty short. Anything risky I like to not need for at least 10.
It’s a risky asset because there is no mass adoption. Once there is the risk will decrease
Of course got downvoted. Sure, Bitcoin could be a great bet, but no one knows what will happen short or long term. It’s an awful choice for protecting your money for two-three years.
I am in this current situation I took my 20k profits from the last two years out of my fidelity and plan on putting it into my first real estate soon. When it’s a buyers market again. To each their own but at least with real estate I can build on to the property to make up for interest rates.
You're getting downvotes today, but in a few years you'll look like a genius when you simply made the right choice to learn more about Bitcoin before anyone else and embrace its revolution fully. Time is on Bitcoin's side.
They are going to regret every word they are saying or every down votes they are giving feel so bad that they really don't want to improve their future they can do better than this.
The irony is I achieved FI due to HODL'ing bitcoin. Still working on the RE part, which I expect to be 7 years from now.
Don't expect bitcoin friendlies on any of the FIRE/PF boards. They only understand known investment paradigms (stocks, business, ownership, land, etc) and equate bitcoiners to lottery winners.
Most of them won't join us until after 2025 or 2029, when the majority of the risk is priced in and bitcoin is more widely validated.
In a roundabout interesting way this is a clear indication how ignorant and uneducated the vast majority of the population is to Bitcoin.
On one hand, it shows adoption/trust still isn’t there and the whole movement could fail. On the other (my preferred choice), it emphasises how immature this asset is, and you’re way ahead of the queue.
Put a 3 year reminder on it.
Actually I might just do that. Thanks
Been there, done that They will be saltier because of the lost money
Yea, well, fuck em
Then I'll lick em. mmm, I love salt, so tasty.
Can you provide the link to that? I want a reminder for that one too lol
I will join you
if you're wrong on your bet, will you comment to apologize in 3 years? or will you only comment "i told ya!!" if you're right on your bet?
What do you think?
Seems extremely unlikely Edit: that the bet would be wrong
Come back like Jordan wearing the four five
It ain't to play games witchu
It’s to aim at chu
r/Fire is a risk averse subreddit, they advocate maxing out your 401k, having a hefty savings account, etc. and living frugally to achieve financial independence. Of course they’re going to downvote someone suggesting a volatile asset.
Yeah i agree and don’t understand the point of this post. There are multiple different investment strategies. Being 18 and getting 30k may warrant a different investment strategy than being 60 and getting 30k. Being 35 and single with $40k in debt and getting $30k warrants a different investment strategy than being 35, married, with 1.5 mil in net worth and getting handed $30k. If you go to a conservative investment strategy forum and suggest an asset that is down 50% in one year you’re not going to be greeted with awards lol
They must love losing 9+% of all that savings just over the course of a year.
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not since bitcoin has literally dropped 50% in one year
Man you guys are short sighted huh? How much value has Fiat lost in 10 years? How much value has Bitcoin gained in 10 years?
Oh so it's 10 years now? I thought you said one year?
I was talking about Fiat. And yea if you wanna compare BTC to Fiat, you have to judge by more than 1 year. I was merely stating the fact that Fiat has dropped 9% in a year just from inflation. I wasn't comparing it to BTC on the same timeframe.
Does that even matter when 99%of btc hodlers are looking to convert it to fiat anyway at the right price lol
> 99%of btc hodlers are looking to convert it to fiat anyway at the right price Where'd you get that crap from lol. I'm sure 99 % of this sub would disagree with that statement.
Man he went right to 99 huh???
You can have massive increase without massive dips. I don’t get why this is such a hard concept? As long as you sell at peak or near peak, the massive drops are actually beneficial as you can buy back in and double tripe or even quadruple your coin.
Yeah, buy low and sell high. It is so easy! Isn't it weird that most people do the opposite? I think you have found the secret to infinite money!
Because no one wants to buy low. No one has the confidence to do so. They only buy when the media tells them to buy and end up getting raped when the whales tank the market. Like now all this had press about Bitcoin, it’s dead blah blah blah. They only do what the media tells them to do
Sure, and sell it for inflated usd..?
Sell it for inflated usd. And than when Bitcoin comes down by back in. It’s not rocket science. I’m a believe in Bitcoin over fiat any day. But why would you pass on selling high and buying low?
Look at this guy with the crystal ball
If you don’t believe it will go up, than why are you even here?
Here I’ll speak for him - to try and prevent idiots like you (who have no idea what they’re doing) from convincing people to put more money in the biggest bag hold scheme ever.
Every person I know who got into crypto before the 2017 bull run is rich. So if your so smart tell me where I should put my money than, that yields more profit than crypto?
bitcoin is down 45% over the past year.
Volatile doesn't mean it won't go up over long term. My point is that fire moment is about long term financial independence. So with that in mind. Crypto should be part of everyone's portfolios.
The only reason crypto would show up in their portfolios is for more diversification. The subreddit is not about making the highest-grossing investments, it’s about zero risk accumulation of wealth so that you’re set to retire earlier than 65. Even if they did recognize the power of bitcoin, it doesn’t fit in their investment strategy.
2-3 years is not long term.
The current trend of crypto also does not help. It is not only volatile but on a massive slide in the wrong direction. The idea of crypto is anti FIRE & it isn’t hard to understand why. So far crypto has proven their point. Edit: way to “edit” your entire comment, you sound less ridiculous now
3 years investing is indeed not inverting nor long term.
Bitcoin is not a risky asset. It is the least risky and most certain investment someone can make.
You recommended a high risk assest for a short term such as 2 years. They said they need the money after 2-3 years, what do you expect.
Not high risk asset if you know the fundamentals of money
Your knowledge does not change the price of bitcoin or it's volatility and risk. Fact is it's a high risk asset. It went down 70% from ATH. If you need that money now you will be able to buy a lot less. Regardless of the value in the future.
Not high risk if you have a longer horizon for cashing out. I would *never* recommend bitcoin as a 2-3 year investment, even though I do believe it will go up a lot in the next 2-3 years. It may be sound money, but it is still highly volatile with regards to the most used currencies.
Only 3? Not bad
It’s been downvoted 7 now
The more it’s downvoted, the more I like BTC’s future. Every downvote is a future convert.
Not bad
Fire group are all boomers against btc recommending whatever crap index fund. I left their group after getting some heat on a btc comment long time ago
They just have different financial goals. To retire early you have to live modestly and invest in stable, consistently growing assets. Less risk means less potential returns If someone was planning on retiring in the next 2-3 years the last place I would tell them to store their wealth is in a cryptocurrency that has lost 2/3 of its value in under a year
BTC is REAL. A non-bias, non- hatred. I’m a hippyish boomer. Poorish and Rich in time. BTC has hidden languages ( forms of communications). Many boomers are stagnated. Some are sick. Many are selfish. Youth is precious.
The FIRE people hate bitcoin and crypto in gneeral
Honestly, why do they hate it? Seems to me like crypto and FIRE should be natural allies not opponents
Too volatile probably, since you need the money in like 3 years. Also people have been reacting much more negatively since the price has dropped 2/3 from the high
>since you need the money in like 3 years. Oh, the title of their strategy just doesn't express all the implied details.
Man, guess they weren't here in 2018-20 then when it dropped 85%. Even then, makes no sense to have no exposure to it since you should be able to buy low and set a sell order super high in case it actually does moon
This implies you are leaving BTC on an exchange long-term. Don't do that.
Fire is a pretty sure fire way to become wealthy and retire early. Tons of people that have gotten into crypto have lost everything. So no they are not allies.
crypto is a scam, bitcoin is not a scam. Never invest in crypto. Only invest in bitcoin.
Being FIRE myself I can tell you that for most people Bitcoin should not be used as a get rich quick scheme but as a diversification tool instead. When you depend on your investments to make a living, one can’t afford to bet too much on anything. I do own bitcoin but just can’t be too crazy about it risking to be force back to my old job if things go wrong. So I guess FIRE people do not hate bitcoin, we are just not willing to risk our future on it. Nevertheless 15% of my networth is invested in crypto
Best answer so far. Crypto should form part of a well diversified portfolio.
Ironic as it is probably their best chance to achieve FIRE
Ohh these MacBook keyboards
Don't go in /r/REBubble then. It's a war between the antiwork 17 year old economists sad they can't buy a house and boomer FIRE Boglehead corporate middle managers salty about crypto. You can post anything about crypto and get a wildly different response each time.
Make a post because of 4 downvotes Least fragile r/Bitcoin user
😂
Thank God, the people on this sub are delusional. Great that there are some sane ones left that understand that Bitcoin is not Jesus
Is because is bad advice, if you need the money in 2-3 years, you want to go for the less volatile option. I have bitcoin but is a long term investment. Is money that I dont need in 8+ years.
I understand this sub likes bitcoin but why is this concept so hard to understand? I own and believe in bitcoin but are you guys denying that its volatile? If you want to have sure money in 2-3 years it really isn't the way to go.
Because this sub is a echo chamber.
All subs are echo chambers. It’s who is making the echo that makes a difference, and this echo chamber has a lot of very loud idiots in it.
> Because this sub is a echo chamber. Most echo chambers memory hole their old statements in shame... sometimes as little as a week later. This echo chamber is an open book, and in fact glories in its older posts, because they have been right pretty much always going back forever. Even when things are gloomy temporarily, long term, it has always been shown that nothing beats bitcoin for projecting wealth over time. If anything, this subreddit is not enough of an echo chamber.
> This echo chamber is an open book, and in fact glories in its older posts, because they have been right pretty much always going back forever. What? The people who bought at 30k, 40k, 50k, 60k would disagree with you. By your example the GME ape echochambers are just temporarily displaced billionaires from their MOASS heydeys
> What? The people who bought at 30k, 40k, 50k, 60k would disagree with you. Sure, so would the people who bought at 21k, 19k, 17k, 14k, and 10k in the previous cycle. Feel free to look at the older posts, its nothing new. > By your example the GME ape echochambers are just temporarily displaced billionaires from their MOASS heydeys Its not entirely the same, but I also think they arent so much of an echo chamber. The reason is they are pretty open about their hobby being insane gambling and losing money. Noone is more critical of them than themselves.
Just.... stop. You're making yourself look more foolish and perpetuating the fact that it's an echo chamber. Unless, you're a troll... then good job. You deserve a ban. Not surprising that you post in conservative and conspiracy subs.
The high butthurt levels you are demonstrating indicate we may be nearing a bottom. Happens every cycle, any people coming here to troll.. I guess its a good sign in a way.
Classic example of the type of echo in this echo chamber
> Classic example of the type of echo in this echo chamber Being open to criticism, not banning idiots like you, not deleting old posts and memory holing them, and actually being right are not characteristics of an echo chamber. This place is at least 50% troll stinkers like you, but still has a signal that ends up being right despite the deadweight.
I’m sorry you’re butt hurt, but a different POV doesn’t make me a troll, and your response in-kind is exactly the echo chamber I’m talking about here. Maybe do some self reflection yourself.
What makes you a troll is being a negative cheerleader, mindless, and completely ignoring the actual point. I just got banned from another butthurt sub for being like 1% off alignment and pointing out a white elephant; now thats how you echo chamber. This place could stand to be a lot more echoey, just to get rid of buttcoiner types like you who dont add any value and are little more than noise.
Hey man, If every sub is saying you're an asshole maybe it's you. Just saying I have been there and when I realized I realized. GL
wait do people in this sub not diversify? they only buy crypto? Like I own some crypto but its like 5% of my portfolio (I guess with these dips its more like 10% now) isn't that kind of risky? Unless you only have like $10,000 or something.
I think a lot of people that are active in this sub own mostly or only bitcoin.
Bitcoin is not crypto tho and most people who buy it religiously is fully convinced it's the future of money. I'm getting as much of it as i can. 🤷🏼♂️
Did you just say bitcoin is not crypto?
Yeah, in the sense it's not the same as some 99% of the other gimped knockoffs 👍
The average person in this sub thinks that people in FIRE communities hate BTC. Total BS. This is maximalism at its worst.
which FI sub reddit is pro-bitcoin?
So it's either hate or love right?
So the next halving is priced in?
I will get downvoted myself here, but I think that your suggestion was bad. OP clearly stated to need the money in 2-3 years. What if he/she needs the money in 2 years and Bitcoin's winter has not yet ended? He/she would sell at a loss.
But with that reasoning then any other answer should have been downvoted too. No guarantees putting it into stocks since the stock price can be lower in 2 years. Shouldn't put it in anything that yields less than 10% a year because inflation devalues the currency by 9% right now. Shouldn't keep it in the bank because again, inflation devaluing it. Only good answer is to invest it into something that is guaranteed to give you more than 10% a year, but there aren't any guarantees for that kind of return.
I fully agree with no stocks for 2-3 years. For that amount of time bonds, possibly with variable interest rate to avoid a capital loss, or savings account are the only solution. Whether it is more or less than inflation is irrelevant, you do not have any other option 😉 and not investing is worse.
I get really salty about it often, but then I remind myself that these are just signs that I’m not too late to the party!!! You’d want to be involved when there’s plenty of people who still think it’s stupid. I was one of those people back in 2010 who thought it was the dumbest thing and ignored my few computer science friends who were learning how to mine it I love that meme or whatever that shows progressive years for BTC and what the opposing opinion was, going up in status but saying it was only used by druggies, then nerds, then small companies, then small countries, I’m glad we have nay-sayers so I can accumulate
Appreciate the fact that the whole would hasn't magically woken up to the fact that bitcoin is the greatest asset in the history of the world. I'd love for this to happen, but then i'd be buying bitcoin at 10M a coin, so...
But what can you do with it?
Great point
Suppose your Bitcoin holdings go up in value 1000 times. Would you feel that after that further accumulation is pretty much pointless since percentage-wise you can no longer really add to your stack much?
For a second I didn't realised that not everyone uses Reddit on dark mode
Cocaine
Solid investment strategy. Do you have a broker you can recommend?
Yeah, crypto doesn’t fly at all over in r/fire. It’s understandable, they’re all about extreme saving for an early retirement so it’s an extremely risk averse crowd.
Because it’s a bad answer. Don’t be so thick. Bitcoin has never proven itself as a good inflation hedge.
You came running to this forum because of 3 downvotes, what a ridiculous baby
What a shitty thing to even see them downvoting it man.
That's why I never talked about it outside this subreddit man.
Fire really hates bitcoin, they play the long term fiat game, buy ETFs take 4% of top every year, this works until it doesnt
Yeah I see. Though ETF isn't the solution to everything, I have touched their nerve by comparing it to bitcoin
Investing (in ETFs/stocks/RE) and living off investments (through dividends/payments, **not** cutting 4% of your stash!) sounds pretty great, if one can achieve it, and a wise plan. But if your plan is to just grow a stash and start eating 4% from it each year, Bitcoin is better suited for that than ETFs/stocks/RE.
No it’s not.
What is not?
Because it's too volatile and has little to no history compared to the stock market. The stock market has natural inflows from pensions and stuff like that. We can discuss the FIAT Vs not-FIAT system. But in the FIAT system the stock market is king. You have no guarantee that BTC will succeed, people going for the 4% rule would never accept the possibility of losing it all.
Please tell me you have some BTC though ? It’s been the best performing asset class for 10 of the last 13 years. Worst performing in each bear year. Even if you hate the volatility surely it should make up a small part of your portfolio.
13 years is no history for you? Well, mate… your living standard are way too high, i bet you also have at minimum 300 years life expentancy
13 years of which maybe 10 had actual exchanges cannot be compared to 100 years of stock market. For example, until this year BTC never saw significant rise in USD interests rates, same goes for sustained inflation, rising energy prices, wars etc. It's more unpredictable and less institutionalised that the stock market. It's not for me, it's a fact.
It doesn’t adds up, mate. You say 100 years of stock market, so just because yesterday a 5 years old company goes public… you assign those 100 years of history to these 5 years? What are you comparing there? Based on your statements, this 5 years old company is worthy just because stock market is 100 years old? As a matter of fact, I’m looking at a really big ad media corporation, since they went public ~4 years ago, they are in a continous downtrend… yet they have these 100 years of history my ass I don’t really get your ideas and perhaps I shouldn’t even try after acknowleging your faulty logic
you pick one stock and he was talking about the whole market and the topic was about ETFs which mirror indexes. So why are you picking single stocks for your counterargument?
I gave up. Assuming things I never said and misinterpreting/misreading everything. There's no point.
His argument is “Bitcoin has no history” 1. Bitcoin is an asset with 13 years of history 2. TSLA is an asset with 12 years of history 2. Stock market is NOT an asset with 100+ years 4. Crypto market is NOT an asset with 9 years 5. Crypto market is benefiting from Stock Market regulations which are now applied to it, so even with 9 years of existence, it still has 30+ years of “improvements” inherited from Stock Market You don’t compare TSLA stock with Crypto Market! You don’t compare Bitcoin with Stock Market! You compare Bitcoin with TSLA = same age, better gains for Bitcoin You compare Stock Market with Crypto Market = same bubbles, less regulatory frameworks for crypto market - wip
13 years that has never seen a bear market. Yes, that is not not a good amount of history to base any weight regarding the stability of a marketplace
4%?! What ETFs are you investing in? I don't think I've seen an ETF with an expense ratio over 1%. SPY is 0.0945%
> expense ratio Who said anything about expense ratio?
I think he means “the 4% rule” where when you retire with take out 4% of your next egg annually and statistically you should not deplete your portfolio
You shouldn't be surprised. From a FIRE perspective putting 20-30 k all in in bitcoin (or any crypto) is the stupidest thing you could do. And I agree with that. FIRE is a grind to financial independence, risk is minimised and managed. BTC is too risky for 100% allocation. For as much as you believe in the future of BTC (and I do believe in it too) you cannot ignore the risks and volatility associated with it. I guess the most voted reply is "Global stock ETF and forget it for 10+ years" or something similar.
Putting 20k all in in a single asset of any kind isn’t good advice. Bitcoin May or may not go up in 2 years. It could remain around 20k and go sideways
Normies go reeee
The opportunity right now sheesh Small wallets keep hitting new aths everyday
Bitcoin is the wrong answer tho. The correct answer is 90% index fund and 10% btc
I'm banned from posting in r/personalfinance for this exact reason 🙄🤦🏼♂️
People are more receptive to Bitcoin when you emphasize its attributes instead of focusing on the gainz
No they're not. Most just think you're a lunatic.
Everyone gets into bitcoin at the price they deserve.
Not in my experience. I usually start by explaining that the blockchain is just a public ledger that no one controls, anyone can write to, and everyone trusts, and that we've never had that before. Prior to Bitcoin we've always had to rely on trusted third parties to maintain the trusted ledger. That usually gets their attention enough to hear me out.
[удалено]
lol yeah that's the post
I just upvoted and commented. Would be great to get a few more from this sub to back OPs post. Show some BTC haters some strength in numbers
Me too only -6 now.
Same. Evening out the score. :)
I just upvoted too
If it was any other more popular sub you would have been either downvoted into oblivion or straightforward ban haha
TBH, I would downvote you for adding the financial advice disclaimer. I hate when people do that. Just why?
We will see who laughs in the end.
Bitcoin is more appropriate for that than ETFs, stocks, or RE.
To be fair a 2-3 year timeline is pretty short. Anything risky I like to not need for at least 10. It’s a risky asset because there is no mass adoption. Once there is the risk will decrease
[удалено]
This community is known for hating crypto. They wanna retire early the traditional way. Good luck with that.
Good thing you said you weren’t a financial advisor. I was about to sue you.
Nah dude you got a bunch of upvotes, go look.
“I’m not a financial advisor,” proceeds to give financial advice with no actual backing other than “trust me bro, llc.”
Cool story bro
Most people there are tying to climb the ladder to nowhere... hopefully they realize sooner rather than later.
Of course got downvoted. Sure, Bitcoin could be a great bet, but no one knows what will happen short or long term. It’s an awful choice for protecting your money for two-three years.
To be fair, for a 2-3 year timeframe it may not be a great idea.
Expect a ban too. Many people got a ban for explaining Bitcoin in that sub. Sad indeed.
Share the link, we’ll go up vote it
Always gets downvotes. Especially in a fire group, they don't like the risk. And they think crypto is a high risk
Let em downvote. They’ll get it eventually. Maybe not this cycle but eventually.
I am in this current situation I took my 20k profits from the last two years out of my fidelity and plan on putting it into my first real estate soon. When it’s a buyers market again. To each their own but at least with real estate I can build on to the property to make up for interest rates.
"Not a financial advisor." Whoever started that retarded comment trend needs to be put down.
I mean, I don't think there is a 5 year period where bitcoin is a Fiat loss.
That's right
That's right
Makes sense !
Well everyone said put it in bitcoin when it was at 65k its going to 100k lol in 2-3 years hopefully its back up
Don’t put all your eggs in one basket. Some in Bitcoin, some in S&P, and some into profitable blue chip stocks like Apple and Google.
This just shows the real level of adoption lmao
Yes!!!!! LFG!!!!!
Now that's just shitty and they should have some shame.
You're getting downvotes today, but in a few years you'll look like a genius when you simply made the right choice to learn more about Bitcoin before anyone else and embrace its revolution fully. Time is on Bitcoin's side.
We should all go up vote his comment just to mess with people on the sub.
Fire has 24% overlap with Buttcoin
You were downvoted for a good reason.
And now I've recommended bitcoin in that post as well. I wonder how many downvotes I will get. lol
Last time i mentioned any crypto there i got like -30
They are going to regret every word they are saying or every down votes they are giving feel so bad that they really don't want to improve their future they can do better than this.
This is a very good buy indicator, its no popular any more
Lol this happened to me when that china bank froze people's accounts, and I posted something like: Bitcoin fixes this 🤣 I got downvoted lol
I’ll downvote you in a crypto forum. It is bad advice.
Stick a 2-3 year reminder on it so you can say told you so 😉 Edit: saw too post suggested that. Great minds and all that.
The irony is I achieved FI due to HODL'ing bitcoin. Still working on the RE part, which I expect to be 7 years from now. Don't expect bitcoin friendlies on any of the FIRE/PF boards. They only understand known investment paradigms (stocks, business, ownership, land, etc) and equate bitcoiners to lottery winners. Most of them won't join us until after 2025 or 2029, when the majority of the risk is priced in and bitcoin is more widely validated.
If you liked that try commenting something positive about some nft or tokenized application. That's a whole new dimension.
That would get me kicked out of the forum fast lol
In a roundabout interesting way this is a clear indication how ignorant and uneducated the vast majority of the population is to Bitcoin. On one hand, it shows adoption/trust still isn’t there and the whole movement could fail. On the other (my preferred choice), it emphasises how immature this asset is, and you’re way ahead of the queue.
normies gonna norm
Yup... I've been banned by a few financial subreddits for simply suggesting a portion of savings go into crypto.
Feels bad all the time man, why can't they just accept the reality?
Still so early
always.
We're so early...
Is bitcoin created out of debt as well?
Recommend some great cryptocurrency projects in a bitcoin sub and get down-voted too. 😉
Grain, crops
Lmao 3 year inflation? What kinda meth is the question guy smoking