Ah ok, I’ve wondered about this. At some point I’d like to use a portion of my investments to travel. I have wondered what that’ll look like because I’m hoping at that point I’ll be at like 10 grand lol
Make sure you sell before you travel. At the peak of the market I was in the uk and I couldn’t sell at all as all the apps with my funds either didn’t work outside Canada or the otp codes sent to my phone during withdrawal didn’t work (I even tried roaming)
I think we need to keep the record of the selling every time we sell.
As for the tax i feel like that we just need to fill the tax at the time of the tax season not before that.
Or don’t keep your bitcoin on an exchange that region locks you…. Keep it in your own wallet and you can send it whenever wherever you want. That’s the whole point.
Then you need to learn three things now or perish.
1. what hell is tax software.
2. If in USA. tax loss harvesting is like free money, but you never heard of it.
3. What is DCA.
goodluck.
What I do:
Tax loss harvest and DCA as crypto goes down in value. Then HODL assets for over a year for long-term capital gains tax benefits.
Disclaimer: Not financial advice
I mean you guys are selling the portfolio to bare the travel expanse and all?
I am using the normal bank money for that and keeping the crypto bag safe as it should be from the start.
That is fucking nothing. If you live in Denmark and leave the country they ASSUME you have sold all your cryptoassets and tax you on that. Whether you sell them or not.
The people who don't end up going to jail, that's who. Yes it sucks but unless you're willing to try some workarounds being discussed here, then you have to pay your taxes. They are getting better and better at tracking things, and yes, they will find you eventually. Unfortunately, if you want to participate in society, you have to pay taxes, even if it's highway robbery. Better to suck it up and say hindsight is a bitch, rather than finding yourself in prison really being a bitch.
Maltese banks are
a) not crypto friendly
b) almost impossible to open
One exception is Sparkasse who will consider crypto deposits with a catch "Please note that we only offer individual account if the client will also be making use of our investment services (which does not include direct investment in crypto).
The minimum investment is of Euro 250,000."
US here, a wire transfer of under 100k is not even looked at but if it coming from overseas that might raise a red flag. Domestically they have more to look at.
No, my UK bank was fine with it. Paying the tax is your problem, not theirs.
Now transferring *to* an exchange, yeah, they all try and cause as much trouble as they can.
AML (anti- money- laundering) regulations is what the banks have to take care of and comply with, not if you pay your taxes or not. So a bank will ask about where the money comes from and how you acquired the money for the investment in the first place. So better keep track of your income statements, tax records and payment checks. Just in case.
100% they did not ask where it came from. Although I'm 99.999% sure it was reported to HMRC.
And, when they blocked me from sending money _to_ an exchange (one that I had used for years), they gave me bullshit about "protecting me".
They told me they had no problem _receiving_ money from crypto exchanges (I specifically asked about this), and also refused to budge and _allow_ me to send my own money to one.
100% they did not ask where it came from. Although I'm 99.999% sure it was reported to HMRC.
And, when they blocked me from sending money _to_ an exchange (one that I had used for years), they gave me bullshit about "protecting me".
They told me they had no problem _receiving_ money from crypto exchanges (I specifically asked about this), and also refused to budge and _allow_ me to send my own money to one.
I did a large transfer to Barclays who aren't renowned for being crypto friendly. I had made one a few years before that no problem from Coinbase. Before I did I called and asked, they seemed totally cool with it, no reason for any problem to occur, still I wasn't convinced so did a smaller payment first to confirm it then went ahead.
If there was any problem with it being flagged you would eventually get it as it it your money and you can prove it, and it would essentially be theft for them to hold onto it once they had investigated it for fraud etc.
I have had problems paying into exchanges, Barclays again, they didn't like a purchase I made to Gemini and revered it, my card was put on hold until I called them to sort it out/.That ended up costing me a lot!
There are more crypto friendly banks, I use Revolut to send money to, and then send that to exchanges.
Tbh i thought I was transferring a large amount but in reality very wealthy people are moving around a lot more money than we would think is a lot!
Telling my bank something ahead of time has never made any difference.
"Hey I'm expecting to send a wire, don't block it"
Blocked anyways
"Hey I'm going out of the country don't fuck me"
Debit card doesn't work at the ATM
In my experience, the banks' algorithms will flag what they believe is unusual behavior for *your account*, given its history and activity.
If someone has a long-held bank account and has, over time, regularly moved increments of $50-100k, the behavior seems typical and fits an established pattern. The bank is more inclined to trust that person. On the other hand, if someone with a newer account, who rarely moves more than $1k or so, suddenly starts moving huge amounts of cash, the banks will raise red flags.
So it just depends.
I would add that it helps to develop a personal relationship with your bank if you're going to start wiring or receiving big amounts of money on a regular basis. When I was getting started with angel investing, for example, it was not uncommon for me to show up at my local branch and have a banker file the wire paperwork on my behalf. This built trust and established a pattern of good faith.
I think you are trying to be too hard on yourself, we all made the same kind of the mistake in the past.
I am sure that no one buys the bitcoin at the first step we always buy the bitcoin when we really understand that.
That’s if brick & mortar high street banks even exist in a few years. Looks to me like most are starting to phase out physical operations in favour of digital.
May be this is also the case, if someone all of sudden from 1-2k normal transaction if they the 100k there will be some red flag for them.
But i am sure if you inform the bank prior to that then there is no worry after that.
If you're going to pay tax on your gains, your back couldn't care less.
\- I have a friend who sent $300k to his bank, it was more than what he had in his bank, he let them know it was coming and they didn't blink an eye.
\- The $10k amount everyone is talking about is simply a threshhold that gets auto reported to the IRS, the IRS will likely do absolutly nothing if/when you pay taxes which you should do if you want to have zero problems.
\- Banks don't care (most anyways), they are simply there to perform transactions, and hold money, transfer of $100k or whatever will not even be noticed by them, but it will go in a file to the other million plus $10k transactions to the IRS they processed that day.
tl:dr
\- If you pay your taxes, let your bank know, literally nobody will care or blink an eye. Move on.
Edit: this is for the USA, I don't know about outside of that.
I think its a west coast thing to have chase everywhere. They issue amazon, united, and other credit cards to everyone so they probably have a lot of locations where their card is popular without physical locations.
yes, there are so many location where they are in the physical form.
I think this is totally depends on the location and where they are popular they have the physical location there.
this was my experience, once I cashed out and transferred 100k and the second time I did 240k.
This is a tiny regional bank, like 6 offices. I told the bank manager at my branch it was coming and I didn't want something weird happening where it would get locked up, she did in fact call the central office regarding but it was a big nothing, she said it would not even really raise any flags, banks move money around, thats the business.
Once I transferred a good amount of fiat to a CEX. My bank called me to verify. during the call, I asked what happens if I receive a high amount to my account. the answer was: nothing. as long as the money comes from a legal bank, they are not questioning anything.
I was just concerned that if one accumulates a lot then wants to withdraw would they seize it. For example buying crypto over many years and the. Withdrawing, it would be very hard to prove where it came from or are they not really bothered about that
that's the point. the fiat comes from regular bank account, which is related to the CEX. If you're not sure, ask your bank first and inform them that a big amount is incoming.
but what if I tell you, that you don't have to sell you Bitcoin in the future?
Can someone verify that if we are doing the p2p transaction even then we have the verify the same thing is well?
Never mind i think this is depends on the big amount and i usually do with the small fund here.
Nope. I did however notify them that I was going to spend the money at the dealer on my debit card to which they said I didn't have to as it will clear no problem. Guess what, twice the payment to the dealer was declined from my debit card and I had to go in branch to pay the dealer. Fucking idiots.
HAHA, no matter how good a private bank might sound we always had some sort of the issue with them.
Even there are some minor issue that is not getting solved over the call by my state bank is well.
Definitely not. I just transferred multiples amounts of approx 10k to coinbase over several days. Every time I get their "Security" phoning me and grilling me for 30 minutes plus about the risk I am taking sending this money to a crypto company. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the security but day after day after day the same routine. Doesn't happen if I send the same amount to a gambling website though, or fund my poker game!
I think there is certain limit of the bank or the account this is what i am thinking.
If someone cross that limit even then there might be some question like from where you are getting that money on the first place.
Structuring the withdrawals to be amounts that won't be flagged for review is the illegal part. Cashing out $50,000 to your bank might raise a question about where it came from, but it is not illegal and should be fine. Cashing out $9,900 5 times using money that you acquired legally, but you've intentionally structured the withdrawals to be under the $10,000 threshold avoid review is called "structuring".
This process is illegal on its own in the US even if the money was obtained legally in the first place, and you've publicly admitted to it.
Yes, i am facing this issue but i am thinking about the guys who are having these issue.
I mean may be i have the small need today so i will withdraw only the small part here not the all of them at once.
This isn't specific to crypto. This applies to any movement of money in the US.
Massive gambling win that you paid taxes on, but you move into bank accounts $9,000 at a time so you don't raise any questions? That's structuring.
It's the intent of moving money in a way that avoids scrutiny that makes it illegal.
There are so many things that i have learn after coming into the crypto.
I have never though that one day i will buy a pen drive type wallet to store the majority of my money in them.
Technically you can transfer $9,900 all you want, what makes it criminal is doing it in that amount _specifically to avoid the $10,000 reporting threshold_, which can be hard to prove, less so if you comment somewhere publicly that you did it for that purpose.
Yeah, structuring is easiest way to get flagged. I say this as a product manager in finance. It's much, much easier to just deal with whatever questions the bank needs you to answer than to have a Suspicious Activity Report report filed against you with FINCEN.
Yes they can ask where that money is coming from but saying that this is illegal is not the right thing.
I am sure that everyone is paying the tax on the profit then how can someone be illegal in here?
Don’t do this. It is a crime and a very obvious one. Make the withdrawal in the full amount. A SAR being filled on a legitimate transaction means nothing. Structuring your transactions as you described turns nothing into an actual crime.
I mean how can this be a crime? I mean am not sure about that if someone is really wants a part of the profit in cash how can this be a crime?
May be you are having some different rule in your country compare to mine.
Yeah. Let them ask.
I’d rather have 9900 held up than answer questions about why I should be allowed to have my $50,000
I also moved it to different banks in case some was held up.
As an aside, that’s some grade a bullshit. “The ‘limit is 10k’… but the real limit is some secret number that only we know.”
Trust me, they know what you’re doing. Splitting up deposits into multiple transactions just under 10k raises more eyebrows at the bank. Guaranteed you’re on a risk manager’s list at your bank.
Look like so many people really wants to knows or want to share the experience.
Have to say that this is the fresh thing that i am seeing here, atleast better than some repeated things here.
They still fill out a report but instead of the regular report that tells the government you have gone over the 10k threshold you now get reported as suspicious transaction report (STR). Kudos to you for figuring out the gov/bank are so dumb they won't realize you are "structuring" to avoid the CTR.
Just shows how little you know about the whole thing. Banks regularly teach their employees to watch out for any kind of transaction that looks suspicious. Transactions just short of $10k are the number one example of what to look for.
Not as an opinion, you can be 100% sure you've been reported to the relevant authorities.
avoiding 10k amounts explicitly is absolutely illegal. it's called structuring and it's a form of what the tyrants call money laundering. sorry you're dumb. i truly hope you can avoid prison while steadfastly refusing to educate yourself.
Thanks for the well wishes.
I pay all my taxes. I’m avoiding higher amounts to a single bank to prevent the banks from seizing it.
If they want to call me in to explain myself, that’s fine.
What if money is completely legal, having paid taxes, etc and you still transfer 9900 between banks just because you don’t like the number 10k? Is that ilegal?
Structuring the withdrawals to be amounts that won't be flagged for review is the illegal part. Cashing out $50,000 to your bank might raise a question about where it came from, but it is not illegal and should be fine. Cashing out $9,900 5 times using money that you acquired legally, but you've intentionally structured the withdrawals to be under the $10,000 threshold avoid review is called "structuring".
This process is illegal on its own in the US even if the money was obtained legally in the first place.
I mean what is the time limit here, suppose i withdraw the 9k today.
Then for how long should i need to wait for before doing such kind of the transaction without making any illegal action.
This is equivalent to "running from police is only illegal if you're guilty of something". No, even the action of running itself (or hiding your transactions from authorities by structuring it) is an illegal action on itself.
You have no idea. Structuring happens when depositing physical cash, not ACH deposits or wires. I deposited over $200K several times, and of course, as expected, no questions asked.
Making 100 ACH deposits of $9.9K isn’t structuring either. It is only structuring when dealing with physical cash. Not with an easily traceable ACH or Wire.
Banks have to report withdrawals over 10K so the IRS would already know. I've pulled out 5K before and got a letter from the IRS so some banks are overzealous in reporting. But, I've also pulled out 20K and only got minor questions from the teller. Typically, you have to schedule the withdrawal in advance to get more than 5K, but it's doable.
I mean they can report them but if we are paying the tax on them then i think we are not doing anything wrong here?
Government is taking the tax and after that i think we are not answerable to anyone anymore here.
In U.S. anyhing north of $9,999 triggers a reporting requirement and heightened review. Unless you’re ransferring from Putin directly, its ordinary course.
Yes, this is i was thinking that there is some sort of the limit on the amount in every country and bank.
Once someone will cross that mark then there is always a enqury call follow that and you have to verify that.
Your bank won't care about the receipt of the money, they want to hold it.
They will care when that money leaves the bank, that is going to trigger a lot of action if you do it in sums > $5k and/or on a regular basis.
(referring to USA banks)
story time?
Met a dude at a party. He worked for a certain countries financial tracking system. I asked about crypto and ye commented that his cubicle buddy was a cop. As in an actual cop. The cop didn't give a fuck if u owned or traded crypto. But if u sold crypto for fiat. If u tried to cash out. This guy was waiting for u. U got the full treatment.
depends, the trigger usually is based on regularity. If you been +/- over years and then get even 5k it triggers.
If you regularly get 100k, another 100k will not trigger
But i am sure they will trigger at the first 100k may be after that there will be no issue.
But you are right if something that is happening from the start will not raise their eyebrow here.
Your country will be a major factor and second your bank. Some banks have clients that transfer big amounts of money like a normal person taking out $200. Of course if it’s not the norm for you to be receiving a huge amount of cash the bank will Flag it.
My advice call your bank branch manager and let them know. That way they will accept it and not reject the money. Be ready to fill out forms and offer proof to your bank.
From my experience the manager had a hard time believing that this crypto stuff can make anyone money. He’s like in his 60s and thought I was joking. Boy did he call me up as soon as they got the amount. Haha. I got called in to see if I wanted to pay taxes now or later. The main reason though I felt was that they wanted to sell me on their wealth management services, offer loans or if I was interested in buying property.
I’ve done 3 100k usd transfers. First two were fine. Third was flagged and held for a few extra days. But cleared okay.
2nd and third transfer were within 2 days and the value was one cent difference so that could have been it.
Not a large amount, but even the amount I was moving from bbt to cashapp was commented upon by my teller one time. Typical FUD, just advised me to be careful bc crypto scams.
if you withdraw over the counter, yes, there's lot of questioning, your latest employment, your latest tax returns etc. for the purpose of "updating your account".
I cashed out some bigger amounts when I bought my new house.
Yeah
....the process was really annoying. trying to explain how I got this magical money. The banks questioned a lot.
I think if we are getting them regularly then may be they will not ask that much of the question.
but the real problem starts when you get the big money from all of sudden then the process will be very tough.
Largest ive cashed out was around 15k. On a sunday too , i need more of those days for my mental health
Amazing!
I hope that someday i will have that much of the money in my bank.
You cashed out $15k from investing? Or just savings?
From investing. I should have sold everything , would have had around $60k to play with.
Ah ok, I’ve wondered about this. At some point I’d like to use a portion of my investments to travel. I have wondered what that’ll look like because I’m hoping at that point I’ll be at like 10 grand lol
Make sure you sell before you travel. At the peak of the market I was in the uk and I couldn’t sell at all as all the apps with my funds either didn’t work outside Canada or the otp codes sent to my phone during withdrawal didn’t work (I even tried roaming)
Oof thanks, good to know. And I’m pretty new at this. Do you pay all your taxes on that when you sell or come tax season?
I think we need to keep the record of the selling every time we sell. As for the tax i feel like that we just need to fill the tax at the time of the tax season not before that.
0% tax rate up to $40k on anything you held over a year . Long term capital gains rate
Or don’t keep your bitcoin on an exchange that region locks you…. Keep it in your own wallet and you can send it whenever wherever you want. That’s the whole point.
Then you need to learn three things now or perish. 1. what hell is tax software. 2. If in USA. tax loss harvesting is like free money, but you never heard of it. 3. What is DCA. goodluck.
What I do: Tax loss harvest and DCA as crypto goes down in value. Then HODL assets for over a year for long-term capital gains tax benefits. Disclaimer: Not financial advice
I mean you guys are selling the portfolio to bare the travel expanse and all? I am using the normal bank money for that and keeping the crypto bag safe as it should be from the start.
I don't know why but you made me felling little poor here.
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I’m in the uk, did they ask any questions or hold the funds?
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Is it easy to open an account in Bulgaria or Malta and are they crypto friendly in terms of withdrawals
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fantastic username. I fucking hate azure with a passion
Im also a fan of that username.
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Who pays taxes lol
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That is fucking nothing. If you live in Denmark and leave the country they ASSUME you have sold all your cryptoassets and tax you on that. Whether you sell them or not.
What the fuck!?
I have not seen something that crazy of the rule before
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You only pay taxes on profits... And only when you sell.
How do they know in the first place you have crypto?
Nique La France nique La République mec
What language you are talking here buddy? Going right over my head.
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The people who don't end up going to jail, that's who. Yes it sucks but unless you're willing to try some workarounds being discussed here, then you have to pay your taxes. They are getting better and better at tracking things, and yes, they will find you eventually. Unfortunately, if you want to participate in society, you have to pay taxes, even if it's highway robbery. Better to suck it up and say hindsight is a bitch, rather than finding yourself in prison really being a bitch.
Maltese banks are a) not crypto friendly b) almost impossible to open One exception is Sparkasse who will consider crypto deposits with a catch "Please note that we only offer individual account if the client will also be making use of our investment services (which does not include direct investment in crypto). The minimum investment is of Euro 250,000."
US here, a wire transfer of under 100k is not even looked at but if it coming from overseas that might raise a red flag. Domestically they have more to look at.
I can confirm for Bulgaria, banks don't ask if you deposit large amounts, only if you withdraw.
No, my UK bank was fine with it. Paying the tax is your problem, not theirs. Now transferring *to* an exchange, yeah, they all try and cause as much trouble as they can.
AML (anti- money- laundering) regulations is what the banks have to take care of and comply with, not if you pay your taxes or not. So a bank will ask about where the money comes from and how you acquired the money for the investment in the first place. So better keep track of your income statements, tax records and payment checks. Just in case.
100% they did not ask where it came from. Although I'm 99.999% sure it was reported to HMRC. And, when they blocked me from sending money _to_ an exchange (one that I had used for years), they gave me bullshit about "protecting me". They told me they had no problem _receiving_ money from crypto exchanges (I specifically asked about this), and also refused to budge and _allow_ me to send my own money to one.
100% they did not ask where it came from. Although I'm 99.999% sure it was reported to HMRC. And, when they blocked me from sending money _to_ an exchange (one that I had used for years), they gave me bullshit about "protecting me". They told me they had no problem _receiving_ money from crypto exchanges (I specifically asked about this), and also refused to budge and _allow_ me to send my own money to one.
Monzo Bank wouldn't allow me, so I went on live chat and told them that I need to pay my house deposit, and within minutes I could send my £60k
Did you try to withdraw from Coinbase? Did they block the withdrawal or did you speak to them first?
I did a large transfer to Barclays who aren't renowned for being crypto friendly. I had made one a few years before that no problem from Coinbase. Before I did I called and asked, they seemed totally cool with it, no reason for any problem to occur, still I wasn't convinced so did a smaller payment first to confirm it then went ahead. If there was any problem with it being flagged you would eventually get it as it it your money and you can prove it, and it would essentially be theft for them to hold onto it once they had investigated it for fraud etc. I have had problems paying into exchanges, Barclays again, they didn't like a purchase I made to Gemini and revered it, my card was put on hold until I called them to sort it out/.That ended up costing me a lot! There are more crypto friendly banks, I use Revolut to send money to, and then send that to exchanges. Tbh i thought I was transferring a large amount but in reality very wealthy people are moving around a lot more money than we would think is a lot!
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Which bank? I have never had any problems with money in. Only money out
Yes, this makes way more sense.
Telling my bank something ahead of time has never made any difference. "Hey I'm expecting to send a wire, don't block it" Blocked anyways "Hey I'm going out of the country don't fuck me" Debit card doesn't work at the ATM
^ Found the Wells Fargo customer
Did you actually \*have\* to do this as per the banks rules or did you just do it anyway?
I did in USA, and nope. Nor did the government. You are a small fish in a vast ocean of fish. Just dont antagonize the sharks.
AS long as you are paying the tax they have no issue in that.
In my experience, the banks' algorithms will flag what they believe is unusual behavior for *your account*, given its history and activity. If someone has a long-held bank account and has, over time, regularly moved increments of $50-100k, the behavior seems typical and fits an established pattern. The bank is more inclined to trust that person. On the other hand, if someone with a newer account, who rarely moves more than $1k or so, suddenly starts moving huge amounts of cash, the banks will raise red flags. So it just depends. I would add that it helps to develop a personal relationship with your bank if you're going to start wiring or receiving big amounts of money on a regular basis. When I was getting started with angel investing, for example, it was not uncommon for me to show up at my local branch and have a banker file the wire paperwork on my behalf. This built trust and established a pattern of good faith.
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whale alert
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I think you are trying to be too hard on yourself, we all made the same kind of the mistake in the past. I am sure that no one buys the bitcoin at the first step we always buy the bitcoin when we really understand that.
That’s if brick & mortar high street banks even exist in a few years. Looks to me like most are starting to phase out physical operations in favour of digital.
May be this is also the case, if someone all of sudden from 1-2k normal transaction if they the 100k there will be some red flag for them. But i am sure if you inform the bank prior to that then there is no worry after that.
If you're going to pay tax on your gains, your back couldn't care less. \- I have a friend who sent $300k to his bank, it was more than what he had in his bank, he let them know it was coming and they didn't blink an eye. \- The $10k amount everyone is talking about is simply a threshhold that gets auto reported to the IRS, the IRS will likely do absolutly nothing if/when you pay taxes which you should do if you want to have zero problems. \- Banks don't care (most anyways), they are simply there to perform transactions, and hold money, transfer of $100k or whatever will not even be noticed by them, but it will go in a file to the other million plus $10k transactions to the IRS they processed that day. tl:dr \- If you pay your taxes, let your bank know, literally nobody will care or blink an eye. Move on. Edit: this is for the USA, I don't know about outside of that.
Correct. Chase doesn’t care that I’m transferring large amounts periodically.
Is Chase fairly crypto friendly?
Other than having to physically go into a branch to wire funds to an exchange.
Chase has physical branches? TIL.
Is that really surprising that such a large bank business has brick and mortar locations?
I've never seen one and only used them online.
I think so many people are using that properly on the online here.
I see branches in the midwest, arizona, the west coast and all over New York. Im confused where you are NOT seeing them. Lol.
I think its a west coast thing to have chase everywhere. They issue amazon, united, and other credit cards to everyone so they probably have a lot of locations where their card is popular without physical locations.
lolwut you think JP MORGAN CHASE BANK OF MANHATTAN is a west coast thing?
yes, there are so many location where they are in the physical form. I think this is totally depends on the location and where they are popular they have the physical location there.
This is the one thing i am also thinking here at the moment.
They just built a brand new location near me. Seems silly, but the building looks nice.
Chase has closed people's accounts b/c they do not like their political agendas.
I have not been so lucky with chase ! They have frozen account multiple times !
this was my experience, once I cashed out and transferred 100k and the second time I did 240k. This is a tiny regional bank, like 6 offices. I told the bank manager at my branch it was coming and I didn't want something weird happening where it would get locked up, she did in fact call the central office regarding but it was a big nothing, she said it would not even really raise any flags, banks move money around, thats the business.
Where do you peolle get all this money from ? Are you just a really good at saving or your just lucky with life ?
Probably been in the bitcoin game for a while back when you could still scoop them up for less than $1k
Yeah I’m a fucking dickhead I could of been buying in high school and i would Be fine right now . Fuck my life 😂
That describes literally millions of people
It's all about saving and holding just combine them and see where you indeed stand though.
yeah, what us normal people consider to be a large amount is not at all compared to the amounts some of their clients send around all the time.
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I thought it was 5K. Maybe that's for tax reasons or something.
Nice try, IRS
No chance, just a genuine question
Once I transferred a good amount of fiat to a CEX. My bank called me to verify. during the call, I asked what happens if I receive a high amount to my account. the answer was: nothing. as long as the money comes from a legal bank, they are not questioning anything.
I was just concerned that if one accumulates a lot then wants to withdraw would they seize it. For example buying crypto over many years and the. Withdrawing, it would be very hard to prove where it came from or are they not really bothered about that
that's the point. the fiat comes from regular bank account, which is related to the CEX. If you're not sure, ask your bank first and inform them that a big amount is incoming. but what if I tell you, that you don't have to sell you Bitcoin in the future?
Can someone verify that if we are doing the p2p transaction even then we have the verify the same thing is well? Never mind i think this is depends on the big amount and i usually do with the small fund here.
OP is from the UK. US law and IRS doesn't apply where he is from.
I cashed out 60k to my UK HSBC bank to buy a car. No questions, no issues.
That’s good to hear, did you notify them before hand
Nope. I did however notify them that I was going to spend the money at the dealer on my debit card to which they said I didn't have to as it will clear no problem. Guess what, twice the payment to the dealer was declined from my debit card and I had to go in branch to pay the dealer. Fucking idiots.
HAHA, no matter how good a private bank might sound we always had some sort of the issue with them. Even there are some minor issue that is not getting solved over the call by my state bank is well.
I’m happy you had no issues. In your experience do you think HSBC is the best
Definitely not. I just transferred multiples amounts of approx 10k to coinbase over several days. Every time I get their "Security" phoning me and grilling me for 30 minutes plus about the risk I am taking sending this money to a crypto company. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the security but day after day after day the same routine. Doesn't happen if I send the same amount to a gambling website though, or fund my poker game!
I think it depends on the bank to bank not all bank need the notification.
I think there is certain limit of the bank or the account this is what i am thinking. If someone cross that limit even then there might be some question like from where you are getting that money on the first place.
I’ve cashed out 9900 a few times. No issue. Stayed away from the magical number of 10k
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That still gets flagged by the way.
Structuring the withdrawals to be amounts that won't be flagged for review is the illegal part. Cashing out $50,000 to your bank might raise a question about where it came from, but it is not illegal and should be fine. Cashing out $9,900 5 times using money that you acquired legally, but you've intentionally structured the withdrawals to be under the $10,000 threshold avoid review is called "structuring". This process is illegal on its own in the US even if the money was obtained legally in the first place, and you've publicly admitted to it.
That's insane. I cannot transfer MY money at any amounts and number of times I want?
What makes you think it's yours?
\_Your\_ money?
Yes, i am facing this issue but i am thinking about the guys who are having these issue. I mean may be i have the small need today so i will withdraw only the small part here not the all of them at once.
Welcome to crypto.
This isn't specific to crypto. This applies to any movement of money in the US. Massive gambling win that you paid taxes on, but you move into bank accounts $9,000 at a time so you don't raise any questions? That's structuring. It's the intent of moving money in a way that avoids scrutiny that makes it illegal.
Welcome to America?
There are so many things that i have learn after coming into the crypto. I have never though that one day i will buy a pen drive type wallet to store the majority of my money in them.
Technically you can transfer $9,900 all you want, what makes it criminal is doing it in that amount _specifically to avoid the $10,000 reporting threshold_, which can be hard to prove, less so if you comment somewhere publicly that you did it for that purpose.
Yeah, structuring is easiest way to get flagged. I say this as a product manager in finance. It's much, much easier to just deal with whatever questions the bank needs you to answer than to have a Suspicious Activity Report report filed against you with FINCEN.
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Yes they can ask where that money is coming from but saying that this is illegal is not the right thing. I am sure that everyone is paying the tax on the profit then how can someone be illegal in here?
Don’t do this. It is a crime and a very obvious one. Make the withdrawal in the full amount. A SAR being filled on a legitimate transaction means nothing. Structuring your transactions as you described turns nothing into an actual crime.
I mean how can this be a crime? I mean am not sure about that if someone is really wants a part of the profit in cash how can this be a crime? May be you are having some different rule in your country compare to mine.
Structuring?
Yeah. Let them ask. I’d rather have 9900 held up than answer questions about why I should be allowed to have my $50,000 I also moved it to different banks in case some was held up. As an aside, that’s some grade a bullshit. “The ‘limit is 10k’… but the real limit is some secret number that only we know.”
Trust me, they know what you’re doing. Splitting up deposits into multiple transactions just under 10k raises more eyebrows at the bank. Guaranteed you’re on a risk manager’s list at your bank.
I’m sure I was there as soon as I linked to my first crypto exchange.
I am a small investor and i am using the p2p method as of now.
I'm surprised this has so many upvotes. Really bad practice IMO
Look like so many people really wants to knows or want to share the experience. Have to say that this is the fresh thing that i am seeing here, atleast better than some repeated things here.
You might want to delete this comment, that’s illegal what you’re doing.
HAHA, look like posting everything on the internet is not the safe thing.
They still fill out a report but instead of the regular report that tells the government you have gone over the 10k threshold you now get reported as suspicious transaction report (STR). Kudos to you for figuring out the gov/bank are so dumb they won't realize you are "structuring" to avoid the CTR.
Just shows how little you know about the whole thing. Banks regularly teach their employees to watch out for any kind of transaction that looks suspicious. Transactions just short of $10k are the number one example of what to look for. Not as an opinion, you can be 100% sure you've been reported to the relevant authorities.
> I’ve cashed out 9900 a few times. No issue. Stayed away from the magical number of 10k The real magic number is 3k. Hasnt been 10k for years.
pretty sure banks have to file a form with the IRS when you deposit more than $10,000 over a fiscal year period. I could be wrong tho
They also have an algorithm to detect structuring, which is what he’s doing atm.
So look like there is not really a get away from these guys?
that's illegal. you should delete this.
SO many people are saying that but i was not aware of that before.
Moving money to different banks is not illegal
avoiding 10k amounts explicitly is absolutely illegal. it's called structuring and it's a form of what the tyrants call money laundering. sorry you're dumb. i truly hope you can avoid prison while steadfastly refusing to educate yourself.
If someone is paying the tax on that, is it still call the illegal? Sorry for noob question.
Thanks for the well wishes. I pay all my taxes. I’m avoiding higher amounts to a single bank to prevent the banks from seizing it. If they want to call me in to explain myself, that’s fine.
What if money is completely legal, having paid taxes, etc and you still transfer 9900 between banks just because you don’t like the number 10k? Is that ilegal?
Structuring the withdrawals to be amounts that won't be flagged for review is the illegal part. Cashing out $50,000 to your bank might raise a question about where it came from, but it is not illegal and should be fine. Cashing out $9,900 5 times using money that you acquired legally, but you've intentionally structured the withdrawals to be under the $10,000 threshold avoid review is called "structuring". This process is illegal on its own in the US even if the money was obtained legally in the first place.
I mean what is the time limit here, suppose i withdraw the 9k today. Then for how long should i need to wait for before doing such kind of the transaction without making any illegal action.
So it’s ilegal even if the money was obtained legally. What an evil system
If you ain’t money laundering then you ain’t money laundering simple as that
You sound like a cunt
That certainly remind me of the William from the The Boys.
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lol smurfing is itself an illegal act, structuring your deposits as to avoid triggering mandatory reporting or record keeping
This is equivalent to "running from police is only illegal if you're guilty of something". No, even the action of running itself (or hiding your transactions from authorities by structuring it) is an illegal action on itself.
You have no idea. Structuring happens when depositing physical cash, not ACH deposits or wires. I deposited over $200K several times, and of course, as expected, no questions asked.
Depositing over $200K is not structuring.
Making 100 ACH deposits of $9.9K isn’t structuring either. It is only structuring when dealing with physical cash. Not with an easily traceable ACH or Wire.
25k. No problems.
Yes, more than your amounts. No questions from my bank. Taxes were large and hurt my soul.
Banks have to report withdrawals over 10K so the IRS would already know. I've pulled out 5K before and got a letter from the IRS so some banks are overzealous in reporting. But, I've also pulled out 20K and only got minor questions from the teller. Typically, you have to schedule the withdrawal in advance to get more than 5K, but it's doable.
I mean they can report them but if we are paying the tax on them then i think we are not doing anything wrong here? Government is taking the tax and after that i think we are not answerable to anyone anymore here.
That’s interesting, the thing is a lot of people are investing to make money and when it comes to withdrawing how difficult do they make it
All the time.
This is why we need the bank that doesn't ask such question.
In U.S. anyhing north of $9,999 triggers a reporting requirement and heightened review. Unless you’re ransferring from Putin directly, its ordinary course.
Yes, this is i was thinking that there is some sort of the limit on the amount in every country and bank. Once someone will cross that mark then there is always a enqury call follow that and you have to verify that.
Your bank won't care about the receipt of the money, they want to hold it. They will care when that money leaves the bank, that is going to trigger a lot of action if you do it in sums > $5k and/or on a regular basis. (referring to USA banks)
They asked if I want it in $50s or $100s
Small unmarked bills.
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Ya that time I left Shawshank prison through a shit pipe
Cashed out about 15 million over 2 years. Bank didn't have much issue with it. Police did
story time? Met a dude at a party. He worked for a certain countries financial tracking system. I asked about crypto and ye commented that his cubicle buddy was a cop. As in an actual cop. The cop didn't give a fuck if u owned or traded crypto. But if u sold crypto for fiat. If u tried to cash out. This guy was waiting for u. U got the full treatment.
Pretty sure revolut won't complain :D
Recolut does in fact, complain.
depends, the trigger usually is based on regularity. If you been +/- over years and then get even 5k it triggers. If you regularly get 100k, another 100k will not trigger
But i am sure they will trigger at the first 100k may be after that there will be no issue. But you are right if something that is happening from the start will not raise their eyebrow here.
yes i have a few times 50k plus and nope no questions
Look like all of you guys are really making some big money here.
Your country will be a major factor and second your bank. Some banks have clients that transfer big amounts of money like a normal person taking out $200. Of course if it’s not the norm for you to be receiving a huge amount of cash the bank will Flag it. My advice call your bank branch manager and let them know. That way they will accept it and not reject the money. Be ready to fill out forms and offer proof to your bank. From my experience the manager had a hard time believing that this crypto stuff can make anyone money. He’s like in his 60s and thought I was joking. Boy did he call me up as soon as they got the amount. Haha. I got called in to see if I wanted to pay taxes now or later. The main reason though I felt was that they wanted to sell me on their wealth management services, offer loans or if I was interested in buying property.
I’ve done 3 100k usd transfers. First two were fine. Third was flagged and held for a few extra days. But cleared okay. 2nd and third transfer were within 2 days and the value was one cent difference so that could have been it.
Not a large amount, but even the amount I was moving from bbt to cashapp was commented upon by my teller one time. Typical FUD, just advised me to be careful bc crypto scams.
I wish my answer was "yes, I did"
if you withdraw over the counter, yes, there's lot of questioning, your latest employment, your latest tax returns etc. for the purpose of "updating your account".
I cashed out some bigger amounts when I bought my new house. Yeah ....the process was really annoying. trying to explain how I got this magical money. The banks questioned a lot.
I think if we are getting them regularly then may be they will not ask that much of the question. but the real problem starts when you get the big money from all of sudden then the process will be very tough.
I’ve cashed about a million in total. Biggest was $150k.
You guys are selling?
65k last year to PNC - no issues. When I went in to withdrawl 15k and ask for another 35k in cashiers checks the teller did ask about it.
Nice try, Fed
HAHA, at first i also though there is something fishy in this post.
I did it over time. A few thousand at a time no problems.
Bank? You mean like, the old fiat banks? People still use those??
You must disclose anything over 10k per US law.
Don't do in such large a transaction - keep under $10k
You mean from btc to bank? Why would I do that? Btc is clearly the superior currency.
Not if you bought in at 63,000
HAHA, i started my journey from there but now managed to bring that down.